outlaw

[proven ocean]

wdym fixing

they literally unfixed it

[vivid vessel]

casters

[proven ocean]

by making it recast

[vivid vessel]

every other mob

[red zinc]

everything recasts though

thats not a mob specific thing

[vivid vessel]

litteraly 5 times less efficient

• these mobs cast a shield

like imo the issue isnt htat there is too many casters

[red zinc]

what is that efficiency from

[vivid vessel]

there is actually a whole part of the dungeon

with 0 casters

[red zinc]

threechest io?

[sudden fulcrum]

yeah

[vivid vessel]

ye

its the same in mdt tho

its hp/count

basically

but like this whole area

no casters at all

except its all footmans

and footmans

are the most inneficient

mf

in the planet

gives 0 count

have shield

gg

I mean there is still a lot of casters tho

also i think

[mighty pivot]

footmen are just exceptionally bad, I don't think there is a mob as bad anywhere

[sudden fulcrum]

yeah they really need to do some cooking there

[vivid vessel]

the casters are baddly designed

so the fire cast guy right

it require a 3 kick rotation

imo that shouldnt exist

mobs should need 2 kicks

at most

[sudden fulcrum]

yeah it is hell if you don't have a lot of kicks

[vivid vessel]

the priests i think are 2 kicks rotiation tho but im unsure

[vivid vessel]

even if you have a lot

i dont think its good design to require 3 kicks per mob

[sudden fulcrum]

the instant recast shit is just so stupid

[vivid vessel]

ye

agreed

[sudden fulcrum]

i feel like they said at one point they don't want the big stop rotation but this kind of stuff is excatly what makes it required

[vivid vessel]

ye

its so weird to me that they said that

but then they make these type of mobs

same in rookery

require a 3 kick rotation

then you put 3 mobs

in one pack

[sudden fulcrum]

not onyl that but that one pack in rookery has casters that bloodlust themselves

[vivid vessel]

like this

[sudden fulcrum]

it's a joke

[vivid vessel]

is 9 kick

??

wtf does that mean

wdym 9 kicks

if you compare it to the casters downsairs

they are well designed

they require 2 kicks only

and there is 2 per pack at most

thats good

[mighty pivot]

the orb ones?

[vivid vessel]

thats what it should be

orbs ?

idk

ye maybe

in these packs you know

i think they should redesign the shield guys in priory tho

legit most annoying mechanic ever

[mighty pivot]

yeah ok that floor is filled with other kinds of aids though, maybe they felt hard casters would be too much

[vivid vessel]

true sure

but like look at flood

the casters are one kick

good

every caster in flood

nvm not the one downstairs, but downstairs there is less

2 casters per pack

i think 2 kicks per

not sure

but there is basically nothing else to do than kicks thesde mobs so its also alright to send ccs and shit

but ye all the casters up

in floodgates

they are 1 kick only

veyr good

i like

good design

[mighty pivot]

you still have the kelp pack which is 6 casts

[vivid vessel]

ye doesnt matter

some of these can go off anyway

who cares

[red zinc]

That has counterplay from a few classes

Think those kicks are fine

[mighty pivot]

but flood is definitely much better designed yeah

rookery and priory have no excuse because they are current expansion dungeons too

[vivid vessel]

yep

even in ML

its better

[red zinc]

@vivid vessel i heard eco dome dungeon was made the exact same way as floodgate but they heard your complaints and removed everything after 3rd boss

[vivid vessel]

there is like 15 casters a pack sure

but most of them are either 1 or 2 kicks max

[vivid vessel]

ye i saw that

lol

i mean loojk

wouldnt have flood

be so much better

if it ended at kelp boss lol

am i wrong here

[mighty pivot]

yeah but in ML you have the circle hell

[vivid vessel]

everything after that is just bad

[red zinc]

I think last boss itself is pretty well designed

[vivid vessel]

ye...

that shit is terrible

[red zinc]

But trash stinks

[vivid vessel]

ye its ok but like

i dont need it

and the trash is boring

and slow

and its small

and walls

and small packs

and boring

ugly

[red zinc]

New dungeon is pretty much full open so

think only the entrances of the domes are like tiny bit linear

From map

[vivid vessel]

let me check a vod

[glass mortar]

i mean the ideal design of the caster mobs

if they wanted to do what they said

is make the main filler casts % hp that scales much slower or something

so u only kick it so healer isnt overwhelmed

and then u have important casts

thats the only way u can do it without drastically reducing the amount of casters in dungeons

they havent done either tho

[vivid vessel]

thats interesting

i never tougth about % hp stuffs

i wonder why they never do it

[glass mortar]

like it should still scale

like maybe on a 10 the casts do 25% hp

then on a 20 they do 55%

[vivid vessel]

?

well then

its not

[glass mortar]

but it should be so far beyond reasonable

[red zinc]

Gearchecking

[vivid vessel]

% hp

wdym

[vivid vessel]

ye but you could decide this cast will always do 50% of your hp

no matter gear

[glass mortar]

making it % hp makes it easier to keep the scaling down since the actual key modifiers scale base damage by such large amounts tho

[vivid vessel]

no matter what

[glass mortar]

i mean just reducing the scaling of casts drastically

would do the same thing yea

[red zinc]

If there was a specific mechanic around it sure

But itd be kinda jank for a 500 ilvl char to only take 500k damage while I take 5mil

As an extreme example

[glass mortar]

sure im saying this would be on the piss filler casts of these casters (smite/fireball) so u actually make a decision about kicking it

its never gunna 1 shot someone (you need to stop every single cast)

instead u pick and choose which u let thru

even on the highest end

[red zinc]

If alot of things did %hp you’d consider dropping stamina enchants and shit like that

[vivid vessel]

tbf

[red zinc]

So you’re easier to heal

[vivid vessel]

thats still the case rn weran

its just impossible to decide which to let go trough or not

imma give an example

3 mobs

2 casters

you cant kick everything technically

issue is

you can have overlaps of 2 kicks on same guy

or a guy that took a kick before , and takes another one

[glass mortar]

yea i mean in no voice pugs making kicks important is always more punishing

[vivid vessel]

or a guy that is being beamed by big guy and is getting casted on

and it makes it impossibly hard

[glass mortar]

just unfortunate aspect of the game

idk how they could fix it

[vivid vessel]

to just kick when a guy would die

so you just try to kick always

[glass mortar]

make it so if u kick a cast within 0.3s of it being interupted by someone else ur kick is refunded xd

idk

[red zinc]

Incoming damage on healthbars when

[vivid vessel]

actually you also play miniboss with it usually which is + 1 kick

[red zinc]

Surely the tech is there

[vivid vessel]

yhou could make a weak aura

very easely

for that

[red zinc]

Ye

[vivid vessel]

idk if that would be useful tho

[granite quarry]

!prekey

[vivid vessel]

most often people juist have targeted spells on frames

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB as you enter the dungeon to get 2 Supercharger stacks.
• DO NOT RTB again inside the bubble as you will lose the supercharger stacks, similarly do not AR early inside the bubble or you will lose the combo points.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open on pack with AR into BtE.

[vivid vessel]

instead

[red zinc]

Ye but like

[glass mortar]

zac i had the wildest experience in a 15 rookery the other day

[red zinc]

Say you saw other peoples expected hp from incoming casts

[glass mortar]

i died like 40s into the second boss

[red zinc]

Would be sick

[glass mortar]

and i was struggling to survive whole fight

and i was so confused

why do i feel squishy

i did not receive an atonement or direct heal for 35s

xd

[red zinc]

Fire

[vivid vessel]

im watching the new dungeon

[glass mortar]

living off just personals and dr

[vivid vessel]

vod

rn

[red zinc]

What

[vivid vessel]

its so weird

[glass mortar]

i was like how

[red zinc]

How

[vivid vessel]

the bosses

are like

in a raid arena

[red zinc]

The entrance wasnt there

[vivid vessel]

takes 5 min to run from the entracne to the boss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD__bET9hKw&ab_channel=LunoLarks'

[red zinc]

Wtf hackers

[vivid vessel]

https://youtu.be/XD__bET9hKw?si=YB9yLPhrq4hPy80Y&t=108

check from here

like

thats a raid arena

why is it so big

why so much running

the pacing is weird af

i guess that reminds me of mega dungeons

they do that

they did the same shit in dawn of the infinite

where you had to run 5 hours

between bosses

that were in huge arenas

[past falcon]

wow i cant wait to range my healer

[red zinc]

First boss is too big ye

Just give ms boost

Rest of dungeon seems fine

[vivid vessel]

you know

[glass mortar]

running between huge areas can be fine

[vivid vessel]

i like pulling on bosses

[glass mortar]

as long as the game also gives u rp speed buffs

[vivid vessel]

i think thats interesting

[glass mortar]

for the full duration

like the timeways dungeon

[vivid vessel]

to make bosses harder in high m+

they are not allowing that in this dungeon

[red zinc]

Im sure there’ll be a way

[glass mortar]

un sure someone will find a way to snap

[red zinc]

Regardless

[glass mortar]

dh fart up a wall and backflip throw glaive

some nonsense

[red zinc]

Almost every dungeon will have funnel meta already

One without migjt be fine

[vivid vessel]

not even funnel

for example

the only way for our comp

to gain time

over big aoe doers

is to pull more into bosses

cause we cant do bigger packs

another cool melee boss

cant wait

me when im in a full melee comp

[red zinc]

This dungeon just seems aight

[vivid vessel]

and i have to spread

on every bosses

idk why they keep doing these mechanics

with so huge circles

no point

just make them small

so melees can still hit boss

[ripe ibex]

wtf is that ui

[vivid vessel]

its so annoying

not my ui id

[ripe ibex]

ik but still

[tender wedge]

that mana orb is crazy work

[red zinc]

full immersion ui vibes

[keen belfry]

im kinda hungry

actually nah im not too hungry

[elfin zealot]

hows outlaw been feeling lately?

[proven ocean]

idk go as outlaw

[elfin zealot]

great input, sure you contribute to society with the same level of effort.

[cinder relic]

Good, but killing Spree exists so

Next patch it looks a lot more enjoyable due to the rework of ks

[vivid vessel]

you dont know how correct you are

@proven ocean

noob

[tender wedge]

its very fun now with a small * that is KS yeah

[vivid vessel]

the biggest issue i have on live with outlaw is ks

the biggest issue i have on ptr with outlaw is ks

[craggy barn]

ITS DEAD

WOOOO

FUCK MUGZE

[vivid vessel]

smaller issue tho

[craggy barn]

i died bc im an idiot

but we killed

ez

[vivid vessel]

nooob

gg noob

[craggy barn]

i stepped onto mugzee

on charge

and walked wrong way

[vivid vessel]

ye

[craggy barn]

we had a hero play tho

voker had immunity bc they had first soak and went into the wrong cage

and giga hero hovered

[elfin zealot]

what makes KS so frustrating now?

[vivid vessel]

kills you

cc you

i mean just press it once

i think its not hard to understand

[craggy barn]

HUGE PICKUPS

free loot

[elfin zealot]

just returning to the game so havent actually had any real world time with it.

[tender wedge]

you lose control of your character for like 4s

not good

[cinder relic]

It's a 20 second cooldown that takes control away from your character and puts it into random locations around the target for 4 seconds

[elfin zealot]

whats the change they are doin to it?

[cinder relic]

You return to the start at the end but like, it's a very annoying "skill" to have to learn to enjoy the spec that already has a lot going on

[cinder relic]

Check the 2nd? Pin

[tender wedge]

see pins but you no longer teleport wildly

[cinder relic]

It's turning into a fof adjacent ability

[tender wedge]

and you maintain control

[craggy barn]

zac

what kir build

full ST?

or hybrid aoe

for gally

[vivid vessel]

full st trickster

[elfin zealot]

Hm. i mean looks like an improvement, but dont most monks hate fists of fury for being a channel ability like that?

[cinder relic]

Eh

Depends who u ask

Both ww and outlaw

I don't mind outlaw having a fof, bladestorm, eyebeam adjacent "channel" ability

I know Zac probably doesn't want any of these in the spec

[vivid vessel]

well

I think fof works ok on monk

when you are in the cd thing that reduc e the channel

otuside of that it feels kinda horrible

[proven ocean]

mad cuz bad?

[vivid vessel]

and i hate eyebeam on havoc

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel whast the website

for the

[vivid vessel]

so ye i will also hate it on outlaw

[proven ocean]

tv shows

and moowee's

[vivid vessel]

I csant ahsrae

sacret

but also like

@cinder relic i know you dont mind

but also

[proven ocean]

ahsrae

[vivid vessel]

does anyone actually prefer a channel

[proven ocean]

here here

send

website

for tv shows

[vivid vessel]

like at best people wont care

[proven ocean]

that guy dislikes

gogo

nownow

zac

[vivid vessel]

but at worse a lot of people jsut dont like channels/cast

thats what kindas bugs me but ye

[sharp moat]

so, what im gonna ask is probably kinda stupid ig, but i want to practice both assa and outlaw before the patch launchs, and their stats prio are completly the opposite, any advice on what % of stats i could use for both? im still 660 so i have room for stat fixing yet

[vivid vessel]

outla needs a certain amount of haste

outside of that

you can get away with playing sin with "bad" stats

[elfin zealot]

Nope, just rather not deal with ignorance, and you seem chalk full of it.

[vivid vessel]

casue sin stats are kinda whatever

[sharp moat]

even if i go HO? i hate ks with a passion

[vivid vessel]

stacking mastery on outlaw mightr be kinda mega poopy thjo

[proven ocean]

noob mad 0 io

[vivid vessel]

!haste

[ornate heath]

A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.

The KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.

The HO build gets Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[proven ocean]

zac

what website

??

or do u send dm

?

zac did u try

KS in ptr

[vivid vessel]

i did

[proven ocean]

oh the website is actually nice

looks new

wtf

zac

[vivid vessel]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/outlaw-rogue-changes-feedback/2120193/3

[proven ocean]

my friend reocmmennded morbland

ah

ye i liked the post

[vivid vessel]

never heard of that

[sharp moat]

so taking 14% haste and then full versa would be fine for assa?

[craggy barn]

zac

quick

anythingi should know

for gal

[vivid vessel]

it wouldnt be as bad as going full crit mastery on outlaw ye

[sharp moat]

ok, helpfull, thanks

[proven ocean]

mobland

[vivid vessel]

ks puts you in his back always, but while the boss turns around and move his back moves, so ks can moves that way

[proven ocean]

he mispelled

[vivid vessel]

but otherwsie you are safe to ks on cd mostly, be aware you might get stunned by the orbs that the bomb guy pick up, which is usaully not really an issue, soaking one orb isnt bad

and healer can insta dispell the stun

on your opener, pre position, send a first ks, then second ks cloak it

ks on adds wheenver there is adds up instead of boss

in p3 whenever there is beams dont ks boss unless you have cloak or you get stunned

[vivid vessel]

soould i watch

[proven ocean]

ye maybe

[vivid vessel]

i liek tom hardy

[proven ocean]

he said if u like guy richie

its good

[vivid vessel]

so hwy not

[proven ocean]

idk who guy or tom is but

i only know 1 tom guy he plays outlaw

[vivid vessel]

bane

[proven ocean]

anyways watching

brb

oh

bane

the guy in batman

[vivid vessel]

ye

the

hmhgmgg mghghgm grr gmhg hgmg guy

[proven ocean]

aaaaaaaaaa

yea

[sullen walrus]

cancel aura macro for belt?

[vivid vessel]

ye

[sullen walrus]

can someone share pls

[vivid vessel]

no

[craggy barn]

we already wiped

bc we forgot to assign quads

[vivid vessel]

tell everyone to be further from boss

than super melee

makes it easier to not stack with beams

[craggy barn]

aight

[craggy barn]

we had 0 prep for this fight

progging and then getting assignments once we reach a point

lol

[keen belfry]

IPA dmg

430 boss fight

[tender wedge]

hunter must have died right

right

[keen belfry]

@vivid vessel is pulling double purveyors cursed for CB

rain of honey into rain of honey

[keen belfry]

😄

[vivid vessel]

ytou do it a lot

or well

2 packs

[keen belfry]

seems hard/annoying for ks

[unique echo]

yoyo guys i wanna test some things on ptr does anybody know why i cant copy my rogue over for some reason cause my other characters work

[proven ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-22968526

idk

make sure its the correct rogue

do the copy data and shit

from the bottom

[unique echo]

did that but it doesnt work

its so weird cause its literally only my rogue i can copy every alt and shit i have but just the rogue doesnt work

for some weird reason

[proven ocean]

idk

try after next update

this update is nothing u can do anyway

just cloak questline

[midnight granite]

when do I press KS on candle king

[low sinew]

Whenever you need to do something not in game and need an excuse to do nothing for 5s

[craggy barn]

holy this fight is so good for outlaw

[fossil lintel]

why does it feel most keys either die first pull or get through?

[craggy barn]

what level

[fossil lintel]

17

got a dk tank with all completed 17's except mechagon

dude pulls half the room only and dies

and then alt f4's

[midnight granite]

DK Tank - good player or shit player no inbetween

[fossil lintel]

he had all 17's except this one

[midnight granite]

okay? 17's kinda low at this point

[fossil lintel]

yeah but I'm not getting a tank with 19's for a 17 😂

[midnight granite]

ye

[spark bay]

Question, do we always prio Ambush in stealth/subterfuge? I was going to set my stealth bar (1) key on my mouse to ambush and leave sinister on the (1) key in non-stealth.

[gaunt phoenix]

the HO build yeah

[midnight granite]

KIR never presses Ambush

[spark bay]

Im playing Hidden Op. Just started playing and dont have KIR haste

[gaunt phoenix]

the builder priority for HO is pretty much always ambush (if available) > opportunity (if you cant ambush) > ss

[spark bay]

Or should I always just give it it's own keybind for muscle memory when swapping specs/hero talents?

[gaunt phoenix]

you can use a macro

/cast [known: Hidden Opportunity, bonusbar:1] Ambush; Sinister Strike

this will use ambush over ss for HO, but if you ever play KIR, it will use ss

[spark bay]

Ahhhhhh. So then I put that on both bars on the same key?

[gaunt phoenix]

yep

[spark bay]

Wow, this is huge. Thank you!

[stuck sparrow]

Yeah dks most prone to dying in the first pull

[fossil lintel]

nah that was 40 sec into the pull

they squishy right on pull

I'm gonna swap to numbing poison see if I can help this not happen as often

[low sinew]

Is KiR the preferred build if you can hit the haste needed or is there certain scenarios where HO is better even with the haste needed?

[gaunt phoenix]

they're pretty similar overall

KIR is a bit better at huge pulls

HO is generally favored on bosses/lower cleave

[low sinew]

I see

Also you just made me realise that HO uses Ambush out of stealth so imma need that macro myself

[glass mortar]

well SS turns into ambush

during audacity procs

and thats the ambush ull be using out of stealth

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah dont do that

[low sinew]

oh it does?

[glass mortar]

ye

[low sinew]

why would you need a macro then?

[gaunt phoenix]

err well the macro will still use ambush during audacity

Its just for swapping builds

using the same keybind with both builds

[low sinew]

ohh

[glass mortar]

it doesnt do anything but it wont hurt u to use

for that anyway

[low sinew]

I just turn off shared action bars

[stuck sparrow]

yeah thats skill issue

[spark bay]

Do we even have a keybind for Slive & Dice anymore? On any spec?

[fossil lintel]

yes so you can abuse the bug

[glass mortar]

u dont need it

[gaunt phoenix]

normally you dont use it

[glass mortar]

u can bind it to have a way to dump cp or do the dumb supercharger bug if u want

[spark bay]

Thank you!

[cinder relic]

Outside of extreme niche cases, not really

[ancient echo]

adrenaline rush and ghostly strike are both off the gcd right?

[glass mortar]

Ya

[cedar kernel]

zeross

[ancient echo]

im going to try to macro them into abilities so i dont forget to use em

[cedar kernel]

zeross and zac there or bedge

[cedar kernel]

solo lord can it also proc the Ambush 3 strike technique

[gaunt phoenix]

not in stealth but outside of stealth yes

[craggy barn]

we got to 2nd soak set on m gally

[cedar kernel]

i will use it

after 4 years of DF i still using separated Macro for SS and Ambush

[gaunt phoenix]

[proven ocean]

i wonder how much this boost costed him

@vivid vessel thoughts?

[covert kestrel]

Lashgod?

[hollow temple]

looks like a druid no?

[frank bane]

https://tenor.com/view/tree-fiddy-south-park-lock-gif-5759991

[hollow temple]

[proven ocean]

no loooks like a warrior

or maybe hunter

maybe dk

or rogue

[lime lake]

He just skipped the homework keys and went to the real ones is all

Nothing suspicious here

Just a gamer

[chilly atlas]

it's just the healer they normally run withs rdruid alt :x

[sudden fulcrum]

he mad

[covert kestrel]

The coaching automessage midst crash out was just

[hollow temple]

zeross needs that coaching omg

!

[fossil lintel]

can you even boost a healer on a 22?

[random stirrup]

yeah they could have done the world rank 1 key easily but they have been saving it to boost obviously

[fossil lintel]

Oh okay the guy's main is a 4k priest

Interesting they decided to go with druid there

[fiery viper]

rdruid trivializes candle king, biggest challenge in that key

[lime lake]

Well after a certain point you just need to shake it up to make yourself feel something

How else do you truly know you're alive

[random stirrup]

real

[fossil lintel]

makes sense

[spring bay]

during killing spree, does the player hitbox travel as they fly around, or does it remain where you activated it?

[upper surge]

@proven ocean want me to write a guide for you?

[wintry solar]

can we do keys on ptr?

[upper surge]

Your profile quote is one of my favorite from the series btw

[mighty pivot]

it moves and it's not always fully in sync with the animation

[spring bay]

thanks, always feels super risky lol

[mighty pivot]

sometimes you just die iiwii

[bright crane]

yo so are we swapping disc powers on tues?

[glass mortar]

solos probably not gunna sim it till tuesday

so check back then

[bright crane]

yo got it cap

oh captain, my captain

solo's wedding gift to me will be a sim that says i can stop using charged bolts

[mighty pivot]

nobody will notice if you use your normal belt

[bright crane]

i want to use whatever gives me the most dps

[wintry solar]

guess not

[proven ocean]

Your being reported to the higher authorities, stop pinging me weird man

With ur shitty ass google doc guides that u post on every class discord that not a single soul cares about

[wintry solar]

you're

[upper surge]

you're

[midnight granite]

anyone found out how to fix belt when it breaks?

for keys*

[rigid basin]

Equip a different belt /s

[fiery viper]

Is it even remotely possible to spend energy efficiently/not cap with AR up, 4-6 buffs and lust?

[proven ocean]

u can stick that word up ur ass

[covert kestrel]

We don't care about energy efficiency

[keen belfry]

i just did 1billion dmg to first boss minions of DFC

1 bill

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah you don't really think about capping energy

[fiery viper]

Oh interesting

[keen belfry]

those poor laborers

[gaunt phoenix]

The rules are the rules whether you have infinite energy or 0 energy

[fiery viper]

i see

[gaunt phoenix]

could be argued as a design issue

energy only exists as a bottleneck resource, could play without tracking it

[wintry solar]

we're going back to LD next patch more than likely yeah?

[gaunt phoenix]

No idea

[fiery viper]

interesting, ty

[keen belfry]

1billion solo

[wintry solar]

ive been spamming and ive got like

2 5 buffs

[gaunt phoenix]

Well who says you will continue to spam until 5

[wintry solar]

why wouldnt I? Unless I have RP or whatever

[gaunt phoenix]

cause the chance for 5 is lower, we may rather spam for a specific 2 buff

[wintry solar]

true

[keen belfry]

@ripe ibex 1billion

[next wedge]

anyone want to get me thru rookery 16

pugging is making me

sad

[keen belfry]

i cant sorry mintfresh

[sudden fulcrum]

yeah it's a good one!

[ripe ibex]

1 BILION WHAT

[sudden fulcrum]

1 billion kisses

[sick mica]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[steel oxide]

Are there any outlaw rogues that are over 30 yo that are high io/allstars

[hollow temple]

all of them

[fossil lintel]

You physically can't play outlaw if you're over 30

[sudden fulcrum]

damn

[hollow temple]

but you can't play wow unless you're over 30

so i guess thats why there's so few outlaw rogues

[fossil lintel]

Exactly

[steel oxide]

I know tons of marksmen hunters

[craggy barn]

im 30 and 3400 if that counts

lazy af to get more tho

poe taking my time

[steel oxide]

How old is @vivid vessel

[craggy barn]

23

[fossil lintel]

Time to respec ass, zomb

[craggy barn]

why

i already did my time

[fossil lintel]

You got to 30

[craggy barn]

died on mugzee kill

[fossil lintel]

I don't make the rules, complain to jpc if you don't like it

[craggy barn]

true

[steel oxide]

Guess that settles it, time to respec

[craggy barn]

yep

fwiw my hand doesnt hurt playing outlaw

[steel oxide]

I have tendinitis in my right hand, if it was in my left I think it would cause issues. Was just curious

[dusty horizon]

is charged bolts just dead for outlaw? ????

[craggy barn]

ye

terrible in keys

[fossil lintel]

I'm using it in keys

[next ruin]

I always read this about outlaw being a young person spec 😂

[dusty horizon]

whats the recommended if someone could tell me or direct me to the info greatly appreciated

[steel oxide]

That’s why I was curious lol, it’s an alt but just wanted to see someone over 30 being rank 1 lol

[midnight granite]

I'm well over 30 and got title last season

[steel oxide]

Good to know 💪

[craggy barn]

charged bolt (if u wanna risk butt pulling and getting knocked out of stealth) or charge crystal (which doesnt work half the time)

[sudden fulcrum]

it was DOA for keys

[hollow temple]

basically all of them are that old

[sudden fulcrum]

the biggest challenge to getting rank 1 is not physical

[fossil lintel]

For reference this is a joke because a prominent rwf rogue player said you shouldn't play "the new outlaw" during DF beta.
Funnily enough current outlaw is a lot faster than that.

[craggy barn]

funily enough i got better at outlaw the faster it got as i kept getting ilder

was garbage at law in SL

much better in DF and now

[fossil lintel]

I've used charged bolts on dungeons and never saw it pull extra shit that wasn't already in combat

It will zap you out of stealth if you don't use the macro and the tank pulls though

[craggy barn]

i used the macro and it still knocked me

was mad

[gaunt phoenix]

It doesnt pull extra, it only targets in combat. So it can break stealth and break cc

[steel oxide]

The only thing Ifeel slow at is swapping to cudgel during my vanishes

[fossil lintel]

During your vanishes?

[sudden fulcrum]

this hasn't been my experience

[fossil lintel]

You should only swap out of cudgel for bosses pretty much

[steel oxide]

I’m mainly talking m+

[craggy barn]

u should ideally never swap during combat

[fossil lintel]

Yeah, it has a GCD in combat to swap

So it 's usually not worth it

[craggy barn]

the only "safe time" is during ks

[steel oxide]

So I shouldn’t be swapping my oh to cudgel in m+ for vanishes

[craggy barn]

no

[fossil lintel]

No, you just use cudge for trash

[craggy barn]

u should just have cudgel equipped when u arent on a boss

and only swap out of combat before a boss

ideally ur only swapping before and after boss

[fossil lintel]

I guess for low target counts it may be worth

[craggy barn]

low target being 2

[fossil lintel]

Like the 2 guys before last boss of flood

[craggy barn]

yea

[fossil lintel]

But not worth swapping in combat unless you do it during ks

I can't wait for the new season so we can stop doing that

[steel oxide]

Good to know Ty

[civic zephyr]

For M+ what horrific vision enchant are you guys running? I was reading the pins and i saw the con for twilight is that it can potentially pull mobs vs gushing wounds

[unkempt cypress]

Twilight dev

It's fine

[sudden fulcrum]

why is it fine to pull mobs accidentally?

[craggy barn]

if u know how to play around it its fine, and theres only a few spots where it has a good chance of butt pulling imo

its good aoe damage, but gushing wounds is also fine of u wanna be safe

is zac awake

[unkempt cypress]

Does it proc behind u?

Muffin

It's all minimal anway though tbf

[tender wedge]

no, it procs the direction you're pointing at the time

so if you're mid KS it could go off anywhgere

[rigid basin]

TD Roulette 🙂

[tender wedge]

my feeling is that if you're already embracing the inherent risk of pressing KS, why not add a touch of TD to the mix for extra picante

[bright crane]

I legit have no pulled a mob once

Not*

[craggy barn]

same, but i swapped to gw for raid and havent really swapped back

[rustic stirrup]

Is keep it rolling really that much better then hidden opportunity for mplus?

[rigid basin]

It's better in aoe but a little bit

but they are comparable

its better in higher target pulls

[craggy barn]

the standard kir build in keys is notably harder than ho tho

so ur mileage will vary

[rigid basin]

This is also tru

me likey the 1fth build tho

so thats what I run

HO is still plenty good

jsut as long as you aint running FB

kek

[rustic stirrup]

What’s fb?

[rigid basin]

Fatebound

one of the hero trees

Trickster, the one that runs Killing Spree is more than 10% ahead in aoe

so we dont really ever run FB except for some fights in raid

[rustic stirrup]

Ohh yeah I only run trickster. I’ve noticed I do way more damage in HO then KIR

[rigid basin]

Yeah it's a comfort thing

HO is quite a bit less mental overhead

and does comparable damage

So if you are vibing on it, keep playing it 🙂

the rank 5 outlaw runs HO so def plenty viable

[craggy barn]

wox used to run HO until zac forced him to swap for MDI

[rigid basin]

LMAO

That is true tho

Obses seems to run exclusively HO but I havent really dug thru his runs too deep

[craggy barn]

gdi

[rigid basin]

Speaking of zac, im thinkin about yoinkin that UI,

RIP

[craggy barn]

fucking just had to greed and die

[rigid basin]

Dont worry

[craggy barn]

on our kill pul

[rigid basin]

At least you got a parse

[craggy barn]

we're giga extendo until gally is dead

[cinder oxide]

youll kill it in 2 days dw

[cinder oxide]

70 pull boss tops

[craggy barn]

since we killed mugzee early today we got some good prog in

[rigid basin]

:))

[craggy barn]

got to 2nd soaks

but our assignments were kinda scuffed

the person who was doing our assignments for gally wasnt around for our prog

lol

[cinder oxide]

yeah once you make it through the hard overlap after 3rd suppression p2 is really boring and depending on dmg you wont see p3

[craggy barn]

we also were putting a moonkin on bomb duty for some reason

[rigid basin]

?????????

[craggy barn]

our raid lead was fucking phoning it in on that

idk what he was thinking until we pointed it out

its all fixed now

nbd

[cinder oxide]

we had one on a bomb too it was okay

[craggy barn]

sure

but our moonkin is fcking awful

[cinder oxide]

LMAO

[rigid basin]

We had our bear tank eat one, then pally bubble, then had a hunter run aroundd with turtle/bop on 2nd set lol

[craggy barn]

our raid lead was yelling at him to grab bomb when it was his turn

and he didnt

he also has giga scuffed movement

in general

[rigid basin]

Then I would accidently eat some with Dance ofthe wind cuz I was too busy tunneling ramp xd

Your RL sounds like a fun guy

[craggy barn]

we troll him so often

its funny af

[rigid basin]

I bet he cooks so crazy strats

[craggy barn]

nah

[rigid basin]

some*

[craggy barn]

he doesnt cook that often

[rigid basin]

Like haveing a boomie eating bombs

I wonder if he just hates boomkins?

[craggy barn]

most of us didnt really prep gally

so we just went in mostly blind

we knew some of the basics like bomb holders need to not die ever

but idk what he was thinking about puting one of our least survivable players on bomb duty

[rigid basin]

I'm just glad Im back on outlaw for Gally xd

[craggy barn]

same

[rigid basin]

I like MW

[craggy barn]

the only reason i died on our mugzee kill

[rigid basin]

but I wanna gun

[craggy barn]

is because i decided to finally hold CDs for once

[rigid basin]

tsk tsk

[craggy barn]

also i was playing sin

so

decided to actually not giga greed everything

and got punished for it

[rigid basin]

If we decide to full reclear a few times I am gonna try and full run in each spec :p

[craggy barn]

i think the only one i wont outlaw on is mugzee

just seems painful

i will reclear as sub tho

for fun

im too bored trying to find 17s to run so i might just run up my sub IO

[rigid basin]

Yeah Os wasn't having much fun on it from what I remember

some jank shit tryna grapple outta gaols

[craggy barn]

im never assigned to gaols

so that wouldnt happen to me

[rigid basin]

He wasnt either

[craggy barn]

gfdi this stupid sub sim is taking forever

i havent updated my sub gear in a while so decided to do that rn

and its taking forever

[rigid basin]

I haven't either ngl

I typically just gear outlaw then sin

[craggy barn]

i usually keep it up to date, just havent since i got a few new myth items

[rigid basin]

haven't actually played sub consistenyl since DF s2

was only in keys too

cuz idk why but I played law in abberus

I def should pick it up again just so I have it in the pocket

[craggy barn]

gotta keep the burst rotation practiced

esp with the jank cold blood optimization

[rigid basin]

Yeah I played sub for queen ansurek, it was bad lmao

[craggy barn]

our raid collapsed on court last season sadge

too many absences during that time of year when we were progging it

[rigid basin]

xd

[rigid basin]

Fuck ulgrax I shoulda just played outlaw for that fight

[waxen acorn]

are we still using charged bolts or charged crystal come tuesday?

[rigid basin]

Bolts are prolly dead, but solo's not posting anything until it's live in case it changes

Oh I've got a matching log for you Zomb

Bomb duty plus died last platform

I had zero chance

[waxen acorn]

F so I guess I'm farming the others

even though it only takes 2m

[craggy barn]

we didnt start m raiding until last season

i was slowly convincing this guild to do it end of df

[rigid basin]

Haha

I mean you guys are doing well for first going into it

[craggy barn]

we got pretty far for first time m raiding

yea

[rigid basin]

Silken aint easy

[craggy barn]

also some VERY new players

like df new

[rigid basin]

we got a few of those

[craggy barn]

we are taking FULL advantage of late stage prog

lol

[astral wind]

RFWL is always entertaining to watch

[craggy barn]

but yea for new m raiding guild we doing pretty well

[rigid basin]

I think my guild was like last 80 or something Id have to check

for queen

[craggy barn]

the only other time i m raided was pug 4/8 M HFC

[astral wind]

Guild on my server was 3rd last to get CE on Ansurek

[rigid basin]

I started actually doing some in depth log reviewing after that haha

Oh wow

[astral wind]

Yeah, last night of the tier

[craggy barn]

L

not last

my raid is giga casual and we just started doing assignment stuff on sprocket
and we only 6 hour a week raid

oh neat our mugzee only took 137 pulls

[astral wind]

Gj for one of the first tiers to be honest, 6 hours a week is rough, I'm also in a 2 day and it can be rough for sure unless you're hyper focussed like we are

[craggy barn]

yea despite our struggles, we are doing very well

[rigid basin]

3rd from last page so like 40 something from last lmaooo

[copper holly]

i have those literally any tier. i die once cause im dumb and my team kills the boss 😄

[stuck timber]

I just saw killing spree animation feels amazing

Looks amazing*

[craggy barn]

bro this set is gonna go so hard next patch

[wintry solar]

that is pretty cool ngl

[whole shoal]

looks gnarly god damn

[vivid vessel]

25

[vivid vessel]

Wdym, it's not a boost

[rotund zodiac]

I heard double coup is back?

[ivory ember]

hi ppl, can someone teach us how to make SnD cancelaura macro?

[hybrid crown]

#showtooltip
/Cancelaura Slice and Dice
/Cast Slice and Dice

Showtooltip just makes the macro show spell info for snd

Cancelaura removes the buff which needs to happen before you cast so you can replace your snd with a shorter snd

Thanks Google spell check for correcting snd into and about 15 times in writing that.

[ivory ember]

thank you alot Eric

[placid oar]

!haste

[ornate heath]

A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.

The KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.

The HO build gets Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[worldly shale]

never heard of this, why would you want to cancel snd

[hybrid crown]

Its a super niche thing. In a certain situation out of combat where you might want to shave a few seconds off ADR you can press this macro a few times

[worldly shale]

aha so an adr shaver, got it

[hybrid crown]

It's sort of like the bug in DF where you could endlessly spam snd for infinite cdr as long as there was downtime to do it

[crisp condor]

Also things like Workshop maze, you can pistol shot the robots and SnD spam to reset RTB for good buffs etc. Decent if someone in your group fucks up and you're stuck there for a while

[hybrid crown]

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure you run out of CPS now, either that or I'm doing it wrong lol

[crisp condor]

It's RNG chance to regain combo points after spending them

So yeah it just happens

But if you're gonna open with ADR or BF or whatever anyway to hit max CP, might as well get some CDR on the way

[red zinc]

Lowkey even if you bought that, if you can heal a 22 dfc you deserve it

[vivid vessel]

I mean it's not a boost tho xd

They play a diff healer in dfc for third boss healing

They did the same in mdis

[crisp condor]

Literally Ayije on an alt

[vivid vessel]

@gaunt phoenix greatest qa team

Also

The new belt

We can't put the engi bump on it

Very cool!

[prisma vessel]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[livid pewter]

im so done with this stupid delv belt ngl

the mastery buff does reset on vanish windows
the aoe lightning stuff kiks u out of fkin stealth if smone gets infight
and the ST one just bugs out and does nothing the hole key

[vivid vessel]

Xdddd

Right

And the st one is just random targeted so it's not even st

And it breaks every cc

Holy shmoly what a belt

[livid pewter]

this is so god damm annoying kinda not worth using it if u compare the times u miss the buff in key

stat belt would be better to use instead of this shid

im just confused i use fkin cancelaura if i use the charged crystal one, then i use fkin sprint and it procs again

idk blizz but ye

[desert tendon]

@fallow hinge

No more lust for ya

[tribal ferry]

have been mia from outlaw. just as a quick starting point can i just shoot this build and call it for keys?

[grave marsh]

anyone found some secret sauce for outlaw on ptr?

[thorn river]

If u have 18-20% haste u can

Otherwise better to go HO build

[fair oak]

Hello friends, does blade flurry damage originate from me or my target

[vivid vessel]

around you

[fair oak]

Thank you TOM ELVIS

[vivid vessel]

np cuh

[hollow temple]

is around 8/9m in 1st pull mechagon normal or should it be more?

if so how

on 19

[vivid vessel]

its a very hard pull to dps

i can end between 9 to 15 i think

[hollow temple]

15 would be cosmic for me

dunno how

i stay stick to bots

but still..

[vivid vessel]

ye

but in the end

its still just a nromal pull you know

and in normal pulls you can get to 15

its just very hard to play it

i press ks on low cp

[fallow hinge]

good job I only do outclaw keys these days

[vivid vessel]

and try to stay on tank

so you move with him

never get left behind

[hollow temple]

ok managed 12 now

pull was nicer..

less aoe

[desert tendon]

😠

[tribal ferry]

uhm which one is that?

[thorn river]

leftside of the tree, its in outlaw FaQ and wowhead

[mighty pivot]

how do they even break this for MM lust only? things are looking good for 11.2 who knows what surprises we will get there

[vivid vessel]

[valid kindle]

not the first time mm lust is bugged

[mighty pivot]

it's not even associated with a pet. It's literally just lust with different icons for buff/debuff and a birb showing up instead of whatever lust/hero/tw show

maybe they fucked up a merge again

[mint fulcrum]

Hi guys. Do we know what DISC will be BiS after the nerfs?

[covert kestrel]

Nah not til reset but charged bolts as stated will be dead dead

[vivid vessel]

petko is mocking us

[red zinc]

its melee tier so

he cant play ele

[lime lake]

stay safe from those winds

[vivid vessel]

Melee tier ..

(Boomie every season)

[red zinc]

nah the trinket got us this time

(its getting nerfed next build)

[vivid vessel]

What trinket

[red zinc]

the spymasters

[vivid vessel]

but its intel aswell isnt it

[red zinc]

no

not that i know of

[vivid vessel]

also we looks utterly fucked

trinket wise

[red zinc]

gonna play the mastery delve trinket

cooked

[vivid vessel]

seems like they are mkaing the most broken cd trinkets ever

and we have nothing

[lime lake]

its str/agi for new spymasters

[tawdry arch]

whats better for M+ HO build or KIR build?

[mighty pivot]

whichever you prefer, boo

[tawdry arch]

i prefer more dmg which one would that be?

[red zinc]

same answer

[mighty pivot]

they basically perform identically, which is why it's down to playstyle preference

[vapid blaze]

yo zac
how much you think your warrior would do if he would play fury?

[worldly shale]

less than arms

[prisma vessel]

arms does more on AoE i thought?

[red zinc]

@vivid vessel not sure how but i somehow feel weaker on dummies on ptr

idk if shits buggin again

but legit doing 9m on 5t with 718 gear

doesnt make sense