outlaw

[hollow temple]

if Momentum from delve would scale 684 I'd run it all day

[haughty wigeon]

my orc hunter is now a nightelf sentinel

:)

[glass mortar]

well sentinel was

a very odd choice for hunter

and even more odd is how they did it

[haughty wigeon]

:)

[knotty needle]

it was a choice

for sure

[haughty wigeon]

that or hes a dark ranger

fantasy wise is silly

[glass mortar]

ah yes when i think of sentinels i definitly think of magical owls pooping out blue arcane magic at my enemies

[haughty wigeon]

to make things so ridged

[glass mortar]

not GLAIVES or anything

but they couldnt do GLAIVES because hunters have never had GLAIVES

[haughty wigeon]

but i also feel like its just a rp issue people inflate to be more of a issue then it is

[glass mortar]

oh wait

[wintry solar]

Hero talents should've redid what legion did with specs.

[haughty wigeon]

:)

[wintry solar]

In terms of spec fantasy

[knotty needle]

it's like they added sentinel hero talents but they didnt feel like adding Warden

smh

[glass mortar]

xd

w/e

they missed the mark on more hero talents then they pulled off imo

but they are going through and fixing them slowly

[wintry solar]

Omg Glaive Toss haiiii ^_^

[glass mortar]

fully reworking many of them even

so i'll give them time to cook

[knotty needle]

maybe so

idk i cant think of any hero talents i really like

maybe some of the warlock ones

[wintry solar]

In terms of theme or gameplay?

[knotty needle]

theme

[glass mortar]

theme mostly for me

[wintry solar]

Hot take but I like the themes of the rogue hero trees

[cinder relic]

I like deathstalker

[haughty wigeon]

ah yes

[glass mortar]

i havent played every hero talent yet

[haughty wigeon]

fuck man

[cinder relic]

I like fatebound

Thematically

[haughty wigeon]

og stampede

[knotty needle]

that's true but i mean the way with the theme interacts with the gameplay

so maybe saying gameplay is more accurate

[glass mortar]

fatebounds theme idea is fine i think it fails a bit to pull it off tho

idk imo if u barely notice the visuals and capstone of a hero talent AND it provies no gameplay at all, its largely a failure

[wintry solar]

Goes without saying

[haughty wigeon]

from glorious stampede

[glass mortar]

it doesnt need to do both

it should at least do something tho

[haughty wigeon]

to diet stampede

fatebound would have been more well recieved if it had more impactful visuals

[knotty needle]

maybe

[haughty wigeon]

imagine exploding with blood of the enemy type explosions with tails side

more coins everywhere

[glass mortar]

where my OaB boss massive rolling coin projectile when i proc my lucky coin once a fight

or something idk

what could u even do for fatebound visually

the poop coin isnt enough for me

[haughty wigeon]

coins

oab

just more coins

[knotty needle]

or even just a louder queue maybe something similar to the garand ping when you hit 7 flips in a row

[haughty wigeon]

not one coin but shit out a storm of coins when you get capstone or head sides

[wintry solar]

Need cowboy tree

Hurry blizz

[haughty wigeon]

lean into the cosmic side of stuff where you have universe consteller animations

or go full gamba

[knotty needle]

if they just make outlaw this the game will be peak

[haughty wigeon]

with 777 appear if you git jackpot

[random stirrup]

every time u roll a tails coin instead of it just flopping a coin on the ground a pirate buddy shows up and blasts your target with a gun mysterious stranger style

[glass mortar]

bro i want a 1hander no oh duelist spec so bad

i mean that is what outlaw is

but dw of course

because people are suckers for dw

[haughty wigeon]

like its clear fatebound draws inspiration from the dreadblades as well

so they could have lean into dreadblade stuff

[wintry solar]

Assa would have to as well

.>

[haughty wigeon]

doesnt matter

[wintry solar]

Based

[haughty wigeon]

im sure sin wouldnt mind it since they also have no animations to speak off

[wintry solar]

They get spots in M+ anyway

[knotty needle]

real image of me using Curse of The Dreadblades

[cinder relic]

Deathstalker has a cool animation

[haughty wigeon]

symbol on top of target?

[cinder relic]

Ya

[glass mortar]

trickster has cool animations

[haughty wigeon]

dcause i havent played deathstalker

[wintry solar]

Not gonna be us in Legion Remix

[glass mortar]

kspree counts as tricksters animation right

[haughty wigeon]

is that it tho?

[glass mortar]

[cinder relic]

Ya

[haughty wigeon]

thats unfort

[knotty needle]

sadge

[haughty wigeon]

could atleast make it more engaging, like the symbol visually leaking on the target leaving a pool of blood or something

[wintry solar]

I can't imagine them giving us dreadblades back as an ability for remix

Unfort

[haughty wigeon]

your something on the player

[knotty needle]

but SURELY right i mean if they dont whats even the point

[haughty wigeon]

dreadblades was cool, but its time for it to rest since we get a shit ton of combo points per generation if you roll good

[cinder relic]

I say it every time but I don't want rogue to have FF animations lol

[knotty needle]

it just aint the same

[haughty wigeon]

ya thats fine

but like rogue iscriminally plain compared to other specs

[cinder relic]

Have u played warrior?

[wintry solar]

I'd sacrifice our CP gen for db to come back

[haughty wigeon]

warrior has alot of cool animations

spear

dragon roar

charge that feels beefy

[wintry solar]

Bladestorm

[cinder relic]

spear

[knotty needle]

spear is cool

[wintry solar]

Death Sentence

[haughty wigeon]

say what you want about spear, but slamming one on the ground is cool af

[cinder relic]

If spear is cool then RTB is cool

[haughty wigeon]

it is

[wintry solar]

Rtb is cool

[knotty needle]

yeah visually

[haughty wigeon]

anyone who says rtb isnt cool is lame

i love see rtb visually

[glass mortar]

rtb has a sick animation

[haughty wigeon]

i love the fact we press it on cd now more often

[glass mortar]

prob one of our best ones tbh

[haughty wigeon]

cause i see cool dice roll more

[cinder relic]

I just mean generally speaking warrior is fairly low on the animation totem pole along with rogue

[haughty wigeon]

ya i know

[cinder relic]

I think broadly speaking for rogue

[haughty wigeon]

but it still has more visual stimulation compared to rogue as a whole

[wintry solar]

Ikr. Only reason I'm playing it this seaaon.

[haughty wigeon]

thats the thing

[cinder relic]

RTB, KS, Sectec, Shadowstrike/Ambush all have cool animations

[haughty wigeon]

ks is cool like blade storm

but we all know its issue

visually only

i cant appreciate it if im getting vitgio

[wintry solar]

Guys

[haughty wigeon]

from the teleporting

[wintry solar]

It's important to note

We DO have the best sound in the game

With Ace

[haughty wigeon]

thats true

ace makes brain go brrr

[knotty needle]

idk if i would change the CURRENT abilities visually but i would like
make them diffferent you know
as in like I dont like how outlaw has ambush and not something else

[haughty wigeon]

trickster visual is cool i like that

you can make subtle visuals look cool

[cinder relic]

Yeah coup/deathstalker are also cool

[wintry solar]

Coup is cool yeah

[cinder relic]

If fatebound had a bigger jackpot emphasis it'd be sick

[haughty wigeon]

im not asking to do some final fantasy limit break type stuff

but like it would be nice to see more

[knotty needle]

yeah if they gave fatebound some sick cosmic animation when you hit 7 flips it would be more rad

[haughty wigeon]

bte during vanish windows you have like a different animation instead of the pistol shot

https://tenor.com/view/auto-shotgun-machinegun-shotgun-gif-25189498

make bte a shotgun

pistolshot as is, or make you fan the hammer with fth

[cinder relic]

I think that'd look really stupid if I'm being honest

[wintry solar]

We had that at one point

[knotty needle]

yeah when you bte during vanish it replaces the blunderbuss with Titanstrike

[wintry solar]

Bte shotgun

[cinder relic]

Because then Ur having 2 swords on, and then u sheath both into a 2 handed gun

[knotty needle]

this is what outlaw needs

[wintry solar]

Or something

[cinder relic]

Also Idk if wow rigs are made to support a shotgun generally speaking

Like idk

I think it'd look out of place

[glass mortar]

just give me 1h crossbow animation glyph plis

god i love that hunter animation so much

[knotty needle]

thats true

[haughty wigeon]

thats true i gess

[wintry solar]

I'd like a cone of flame during crackshot

[haughty wigeon]

but it feels like bte should be distinct from ps if we lean on it heavily during vanish windows

[knotty needle]

https://tenor.com/view/doug-domer-true-and-yeah-thats-true-gif-20347441

[haughty wigeon]

https://tenor.com/view/hammond-jumpscare-fan-the-hammer-gif-26882166

[glass mortar]

it is a bit weird that BtE and PS have the exact same animation imo but i dont know how much you could improve it tbh

[wintry solar]

ER should work on Pistol Shot instead of Sinister Strike

[haughty wigeon]

real

[wintry solar]

And then buffed

[knotty needle]

i could have sworn pistol shot was right hand and BtE was left hand but maybe im just crazy

it sounds crazy

so im probably crazy

[haughty wigeon]

alot of nice subtle changes would go a long way

[wintry solar]

Did you know there's a fuse on the gun in the animation?

Nvm I made that up from something else

[glass mortar]

im gunna be honest, PS is a silly animation to begin with

now if we just used a cutlass/1hander and no oh

it would make sense

[knotty needle]

i like where you're going with this

[haughty wigeon]

we go full degen with this

[glass mortar]

but wheres my weapon going man im not even stowing it, it just despawns mid swing and a pistol spawns in my hand

[haughty wigeon]

you know how dh has glaives only

outlaw gets its own wepaon type

pistols

and we duelwield those

[wintry solar]

-_-

[knotty needle]

yeah we'll call it outlaw hunter

the fourth hunter spec

[wintry solar]

We burnt it

[haughty wigeon]

we turn into the punisher from marvel rivals

we have a cd that makesu s pull out so much guns

then we rename the spec from outlaw to tinker

[knotty needle]

and then we waltz on up to xal'atath and say "judge jury executioner" and she gets dies

[haughty wigeon]

i did it

i saved the spec

[knotty needle]

nah all we need is that they make outlaw a 1 handed duelist spec
and then i will use a rapier transmog that is good
which dont exist
except the dreadblades rapier
BUT I DONT HAVE THEM BECAUSE BLIZZARD HATES ME

and then i will use a good rapier transmog
and i will become the man in black
then WoW is saved

[wintry solar]

Or

Idea

[knotty needle]

combat rogue with the bloodfang set good idea

[wintry solar]

What we do is bring BFA Outlaw back in its entirety

Or SL outlaw

Both are goated

[haughty wigeon]

:)

cull the outlaw population by half

cause alot of people would go apeshit with rtb costing combo points

[wintry solar]

@cinder relic BFA or SL Outlaw pill. Which are you taking?

[knotty needle]

cyanide

[gaunt phoenix]

Which SL season

[wintry solar]

Oh right

Design wise

But any season you choose

If you want numbers involved

[gaunt phoenix]

Late SL with like 5 different builds is hard to beat

design wise

but I value having choices

[wintry solar]

I'd have to agree

I really liked bfa outlaw but sl was just better with more build choices.

And they felt different too

Yknow how sometimes builds can be different but kinda feel the same?

[cinder relic]

Probably SL

Covenant abilities were cool

[wintry solar]

If only SL as a whole didn't suck dong

I liked it but it's flaws overshadowed everything good it had going on with it.

[sullen walrus]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[ripe epoch]

Do we get any changes for outlaw in 11.1.7?

[random geyser]

is new disc belt going to be good?

[glass mortar]

yes

good enough to use anyway

[gaunt phoenix]

11.2 is in fucking

august

[haughty wigeon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1352795177001029654/1367948083840942150/honkhonk.gif

[gaunt phoenix]

oh the belt is 11.1.7

[frail veldt]

Wtf is even the belt

[cinder relic]

The ring but a belt

[frail veldt]

Ugh

[unkempt cypress]

Yippie

So excited

What a dopamine rush that'll be

[gaunt phoenix]

damage

[frail veldt]

Jwsus

[cinder relic]

Nice thats what I put in my wowhead guide just based on the other classes sims

[gaunt phoenix]

st https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uDLuucNqLY9Y3Km3VAH8Au

slice https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/isM7PkLzG1H38kZL18wsrJ

[wintry solar]

Ughhhhhhhhhh

[hybrid crown]

Honestly Ill take the belt over another stack of raid nerf

It just keeps things interesting

[wintry solar]

Blizz let it be known I'm only getting the belt because it's the last champ track gear I own.

[ember goblet]

is there a weapon swap WA for crudgel to ther wep?

[wintry solar]

And I'm gonna do delves anyway

[glass mortar]

in the pins

[glass mortar]

damn right u are

[wintry solar]

[gaunt phoenix]

D.I.S.C. Belt

Updated <t:1750095480:R>

Initially it looks like Charged Bolts (single target proc) is the recommended effect for raid and Charged Crystal (split aoe proc) for keys.

The stat procs Critical Chain and Static Charge are not worth it.

Sims: ST, Dslice, Sustain 5 target - these are at 701 ilvl. The belt is still worth at the base 691 ilvl.

Note Charged Crystal is undersimming here, see correction above.

Similar to corruptions it's possible for tuning or SimC implementations to change, or testing to lead to updated recommendations.

Also the belt does not have stats natively so you might have to adjust some gear if it makes you lose Haste.

[ripe ibex]

@gaunt phoenix ur the goat

[glass mortar]

man they managed to find a way to make the vers buff bad for us

its decayed based on attack speed

[fathom whale]

whats the tech behind this ? see heaps of peeps runin it

[glass mortar]

vanish vs dungeon trash resets combat so it can proc again everytime u vanish

its our bis in aoe on dungeon trash. you swap it with another weapon for bosses

[fathom whale]

ooo

so like iron thumb for bosses?

[gaunt phoenix]

Iron thumb cant be weapon swapped so its not used in keys at all

[fathom whale]

i thought you could swap weaps

whack

[gaunt phoenix]

you can

but not iron thumb

they flagged this weapon specifically

[fathom whale]

alright bet

i guess knuckles it is

[craggy barn]

u can, just not iron thumb

gdi discord updated late

[wintry solar]

This dude

[fresh obsidian]

This belt isn't as strong as last seasons ring is it?

[fathom whale]

apparently not but they keep buffin it

[glass mortar]

circlet was bigger, big enough to wear it half of this season even

[wintry solar]

I hope not, had hell replacing that stupid ring

[glass mortar]

this is like, slightly larger then corruptions

prob replace it pretty quick in s3

[wintry solar]

Assuming they don't stop buffing it

But I'm sure it won't be like last season

[fresh obsidian]

K thanks

[fresh obsidian]

Why "Stealthless?"

[wintry solar]

Was originally just Pistol Shot Popo but Zomb suggested it after I found a funny build on Outlaw Mallet

Stealthless kir I think, idr

This one

[fresh obsidian]

Gross

Why is that on Outlaw Mallet?

[wintry solar]

Someone more well versed in that area could probably tell you.

[random stirrup]

low key gaming

[wintry solar]

:O

Keys you're too strong for some of the best content ngl

[random stirrup]

honestly I have more fun the higher level u go

less downtime

[wintry solar]

Also true

I think I just like outlaw

[gaunt phoenix]

just has a bunch of builds for comparison, a lot of them are not ideal

[random stirrup]

20s of my 60s of KIR buffs just wasting away due to between pack downtime (curse you motherlode)

[wintry solar]

Can we see specific rtb buff uptime?

Pleaseeee

[random stirrup]

it's not the entire key to be clear I ate a mine in killing spree right before pulling last boss

tragic

but up to that point

oh i missed bs in that image

its like 76%

[fresh obsidian]

Surely the APL isn't optimized for that kind of build though right? Or does it matter?

Though even if it were, it'd still be super under performing so why put the effort in anyway.

[wintry solar]

Someone made a joke the other day about every character having a rtb seed

Seeing grand melee being so high reminded me of it. It's probably not the case but it feels like GM has a thing for me.

[gaunt phoenix]

should be fine, maybe some small things to be found

[wintry solar]

Maybe I just notice it more because it does nothing but increase dmg

[fresh obsidian]

I'll play around with sims next time I'm bored for funsies ig. Thanks Solo.

[fresh obsidian]

Was it you that made bad builds for fun?

You change your name a lot

[wintry solar]

At the tail end of seasons yeah

When I reached all my goals

I'm not at that point yet

Probably won't at all this season. Me and bro are playing through all the co-op resident evils

[past sky]

does the belt gain ilvl as you upgrade it? were the sims in the pin done with the most powerful belt or the week one belt?

[novel timber]

do we ever play fatebound as KiR or is it always trickster outside of circumstances where we cant KS like sprocket?

[fossil lintel]

Do we ever play fatebound outside of sprocket?

[novel timber]

yeah

[fossil lintel]

Where?

[novel timber]

oh i'm asking

[fossil lintel]

It's mostly always trickster whenever there's anything to cleave

[lone spear]

in mythic mugzee you can play fatebound since ST is all that really matters there

[gaunt phoenix]

It goes from 691 to 701 which is whatever

[lone spear]

and also killing spree can cause problems with mines

meaning you have to hold, which is a loss

[past sky]

oh yeah i was looking at the simc input wrong, it is 701 in the sim

[vivid vessel]

The vers buff would have always been worse for us than for any spec in the game tho?

[obsidian walrus]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[outer raptor]

i might be dumb and cant find out where, but what is it that adds slice and dice when i use a finisher as outlaw?

[remote pecan]

"Cut to the Chase" it's in your spell book but you need to make sure you dont have Hide passives checked at the top

[upper pagoda]

Guys, trying outlaw for a few days now… doing 10/12s.
My AR uptime is around 70%, it has been hard for me to increase this update. Any tips or suggestions?

[torpid fiber]

is this details uptime or warcraft logs uptime (including non-combat time)?

[strong cargo]

All the rotation contribute to ar uptime, so it's hard to say without knowing what you do. You can check #outlaw-faq or !log for a log review if needed

[quick quail]

Does anyone have gallywix pov?

[upper pagoda]

Details

[lucid sandal]

Can we cancelaura killing spree

[vivid vessel]

i wish

[upper pagoda]

!log

[novel timber]

on bosses that are scary to KS is it worth to send a 1-2 pt one for the proc on flawless form and disorienting strikes?

[remote pecan]

yes, if it's not safe to do full duration KS you want to send low cp ones unless it's just not safe to press at all.

[obsidian walrus]

does someone have a good WA for weapon switch ?

[ripe ibex]

https://wago.io/elwWiwJax

[vivid vessel]

insane weak aura

[obsidian walrus]

ty ❤️

[vivid vessel]

guy who made it is a legend no cap

[ripe ibex]

yeah the guy who makes it is french tho

so keep this in mind

[vivid vessel]

oh

[wintry solar]

Imagine needing a reminder

[vivid vessel]

nvm

[ripe ibex]

but also the goat

[wintry solar]

Instead of just simply rembering

[hardy thicket]

who tf manually remembers anything

i dont even know my own number

[wintry solar]

I rember everything

[hardy thicket]

weirdge

[wintry solar]

Big brane

[tender breach]

will blizz ban weakauras? I use it to input all rotation conditions to decide what to press without chkin all counters and cooldowns etc and doin the game mechanics

[vivid vessel]

Bro

Imma thrive

When blizzard bans weak auras

Holy shmoly

[ripe ibex]

thrive you say

[vivid vessel]

I use 0 rotation helper weak auras

I could almost play with the cooldown manager

[wintry solar]

Most of mine are cosmetic and silly stuff

I have fire on my adr icon when it's active

[ripe ibex]

do you think that many people do?

[hardy thicket]

bro has two houndred different sounds in his WA and says he'll trhive

kek

[ripe ibex]

idk i feel like i only really see it with arcane

[vivid vessel]

Ye lol

[wintry solar]

Bm uses it

[ripe ibex]

maybe a good amount of people use the rtb wa for outlaw too

[wintry solar]

When they go above +7

[vivid vessel]

That's just big wigs

[ripe ibex]

hmm yeah ig so idk never really though about it

but also

i don’t really see an issue with that

it will always be worse

[hardy thicket]

big wigs sound templates programmed into your WA for certain ques/proccs no?

😄

[vivid vessel]

Everyone use rotation helper weak auras

[ripe ibex]

than just using your brain

[vivid vessel]

Look at the number of people asking for rtb weak aura

[ripe ibex]

yeah true

[vivid vessel]

Hm wdym

Only sound I have is ps proc

Should have a sound tho

[wintry solar]

You can link it?

[vivid vessel]

It just makes my experience better it's a reload sound

Feels like an in-game sound

[hardy thicket]

the subterfuge sound is still there too im getting too lazy to remove em

[vivid vessel]

Ah true

Well

It's mostly useless now I guess

[ripe ibex]

i could live without it

[hardy thicket]

and then theres the uh theres a third one

[vivid vessel]

I could play without it

[hardy thicket]

cant even remember

[vivid vessel]

Nah there isn't

Ace is in-game

I have ace sound in shh

Sub

[ripe ibex]

what does the guitar sound mean zac

[vivid vessel]

But blizzard will allow you to add sounds to things tho

[ripe ibex]

every once in a while i hear a guitar

[wintry solar]

You can't improve the Ace sound. It's already perfect.

[vivid vessel]

You can add sounds to private auras already

Sounds cue will be a thing for your buffs I think

[hardy thicket]

I go mostly off sounds tbh

so im more worried about that

at least for mechanics and on use ques

[vivid vessel]

The only thing I can't play without rn

Is player

Plater

For plate color

[hardy thicket]

cds on plates is also kinda noice wonder if they'll allow that

[vivid vessel]

And targeted weak aura

When you are targeted by a spell

[hardy thicket]

bro

do you have a special one like u had before

mine sucks

the targeted one

[vivid vessel]

I still use the same

[hardy thicket]

did u modify it for TWW tho

mine was from DF lol

[vivid vessel]

Targeted by damage spell is the name I think

I might have updated it idk

[hardy thicket]

the TWW Dungeon has one built in kinda

but I dont like it

keep missing half the shit

ah ye its this one? https://wago.io/TsFNFG1H7

[vivid vessel]

Ye

[hardy thicket]

cant play big pulls properly without this

[lilac jungle]

Hey!
Out of curiosity, what kind of peak DPS do you guys usually hit on big AoE pulls when everything lines up (cooldowns, procs, lust, etc.)?
I usually see around 11-12M, but I rarely go higher than that.
Just wondering if I might be missing something — especially on the first big pulls in CM and PSF for example, where the group wants to absolutely blast.

[vivid vessel]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hardy thicket]

Welcome to Outlaw my friend

[echo tide]

How would you go higher if you’re target capped

Big pull, 25 (8) mobs

[gaunt phoenix]

outlaw might hit 15m but ya we are capped and dont have big burst cds

and dont benefit from lust

[lilac jungle]

I know I know, just curious if anyone's regularly hitting way higher.

[gaunt phoenix]

If you are geared and playing KIR 1 FTH you can probably hit closer to 14-15m more often

[lilac jungle]

I was just wondering if it's normal that even in +17s I'm still struggling to go much higher. My overall is usually around 5 to 5.5M.

[gaunt phoenix]

I know what you're asking

[lilac jungle]

Ok ty not all bis, and i am 675ilvl ty

[gaunt phoenix]

[unkempt forum]

outlaw can use two daggers? I have craft daggers from liquidation and I don't want to change them

[gaunt phoenix]

Offhand yea

It's nearly identical to sword, like 0.2% better even

[unkempt forum]

so there's nothing stopping me from playing with two daggers?

[gaunt phoenix]

No you cant use dagger mainhand

just offhand

[unkempt forum]

ok

ty

offhand this left or right weapon slot?

[gaunt phoenix]

right

[vivid vessel]

!aug

[ornate heath]

Rogue abilities not being reattributed to Augs in logs:

Fate Intertwined Ethereal Rampage

More generaly:

• shifting sands does not reatribute damage buffed by external auras (think Smolderon orbs)
  More information

[pliant wave]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[normal forge]

can u add an socket on top of the socket that DISC belt already has?

[pliant wave]

That belt has a default socket added to it.

[normal forge]

ok, but can u add an socket on top of that one?

[pliant wave]

No, We can't add another one.

[fleet knot]

!log

[drowsy pebble]

UI!

[cedar kernel]

have a nice day brothers

[fossil lintel]

Good night bac

[cedar kernel]

huh i just woke

maybe 3 hrs ago

[hybrid crown]

I can't wait for shocky belt tomorrow

[haughty moat]

because u like delves?

[hybrid crown]

Yes of course

[carmine verge]

official delvers online

[fossil lintel]

Wait isn't it like 9pm in there?

[cedar kernel]

yea but my timeclock broke

i slept at 10am woke at 9pm

[fossil lintel]

We've all been there

[dull rapids]

as outlaw do i need to dice everytime i get it until i get a full dice?

[covert kestrel]

as the HO build yes, KiR no

[gaunt phoenix]

The rtb rules are a bit different for each build

[dull rapids]

yea im playing HO build

[gaunt phoenix]

The HO build is rolling asap unless you have 4+ buffs active

[dull rapids]

tysm

what about killing spree? i sometimtes forget about it

[gaunt phoenix]

KS is really important cause it gives you 2 unseen procs, which is a lot of dmg and funds Coup de grace

So KS is the highest priority finisher outside of stealth and is higher prio than using vanish

Unless you have to vanish immediately to preserve adrenaline rush

But you dont use ks inside stealth windows

Also if KS cooldown is under 20s or so then you try not to vanish

Because if you sent vanish when KS is nearly ready then you will waste alot of cooldown reduction on KS

But again you may still have to vanish regardless of this to preserve AR

[copper radish]

Are we gonna be hunting for Tira, Faulty, or the COS ring this time around for legion timewalk? They are doing gear we can use right?

[gaunt phoenix]

hmm dont know the ilvl

[copper radish]

Figured it would be heroic upgradable if they are doing the drops from them

[obsidian walrus]

can we start a petition to change how KS works, change the animation or make ghosts do the animation instead of the player. Its feels so bad to lose control of your character

[vivid vessel]

no

i love ks

wanna keep it taht way

[obsidian walrus]

KEKW

love to port back in to shit on the group or cant use your dps cd on some boss mechanics

[dull rapids]

do u mind explaining this rotation on opener?

[late swallow]

KS is really good the way it is tbh

[dull rapids]

so just use KS on cd?

[late swallow]

the only thing that would make KS better if it was an empower spell

like evokers

[covert kestrel]

check out #outlaw-faq for a simple and advanced roation info

[vivid vessel]

ye i agree somnius

[dull rapids]

oh ty

[vivid vessel]

if you cant handle ks

its jsut skill issue fr ..

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/steamhappy-steamsad-steam-emoji-if-you-cant-handle-me-at-my-then-you-dont-deserve-me-at-my-gif-4516617455379036253

[covert kestrel]

somnius quits the game for a month and just wants to see the world burn

[gaunt phoenix]

you open with AR + BTE and then you ambush/bte for 6 seconds cause you are in a stealth window

then after the first stealth window is over, you build to KS, then build to vanish > BTE again

then u are in a stealth window again

[tulip quarry]

KS in handleable yeah, but on some boss encounter it feel shit not being able to use it on extended period of time :/

[vivid vessel]

I was just joking

Ks is a terrible spell

Anyone defending ks is an idiot

[late swallow]

i don't think anyone actually likes it

[vivid vessel]

Idiot monkey

Delusional

Even guy doesn't defend ks

And that's saying something

[late swallow]

anonymous wowhead posters like it

[vivid vessel]

Freaks only doing outdoor content idc

Npcs

[hardy thicket]

i dunno why they continue to insist on trying to make it work

just delete it

forget about it

make it a god damn pvp talent or something

[tulip quarry]

Replace it into the Trickster three with BR and boom, we are fixed

[stiff glade]

Warrior in my guild just made an outlaw alt cause "it looked so fun when Tiibi is using killing spree". I CAN'T WAIT for the "oh no, this is ass actually"

[covert kestrel]

set teleport to 0 just like wox said, boom no more ks issues

[hardy thicket]

bro one of my friends were like KS looks so fun it cant be that much different from using the fyrakk legendary

"u can synch it with ur defensives"

yeah gl

synch a cd every 15s

[random stirrup]

just hold cloak for every KS

[hardy thicket]

meanwhile fyrakk leggo on a 2 min set timer can synch with major defensive every use

[late swallow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1374363430362021979/KillingSpreeWorkshop.gif

[hardy thicket]

kEEEEk

[obsidian walrus]

just make it like that sub ability

give the shadows pirate hats

[gaunt phoenix]

Sectech has like 47 issues

with logs

and pets

or whatever

the fuck

keep it away !

[late swallow]

i wish sectech wasn't softcapped

[obsidian walrus]

fixed

[tulip quarry]

Bladerush would have feel so much better in place of KS for trickster T_T

[covert kestrel]

i wish i could cast sectech irl so that i can have shadows to hang out with and i wouldnt be so alone

[late swallow]

they'd have to turn bladerush into a finisher tho

otherwise it doesn't interact at all with the rest of the kit

[stiff glade]

They did that to KS

[gaunt phoenix]

Br is a dps loss rn

[late swallow]

ya but it's not as easy as just swapping to BR

[hardy thicket]

well just literally make it KS but not KS

lol

[late swallow]

me walking behind the starbucks barrista on her way home at night shouting secret technique

[hardy thicket]

finisher instead of an energy builder and just hook every trickster interaction KS has to BR

gggggggggg?

[covert kestrel]

just make trickster around feint again, blizz was really cooking back then

[random stirrup]

trickster is already around feint since you have to press it to live ks

[hardy thicket]

This was me every prideful in SL S1

I laughed so hard every time

[late swallow]

wait what happened to whispyr?

[gaunt phoenix]

account hacked

[vivid vessel]

I banned him

[gaunt phoenix]

He was phished

[vivid vessel]

Had enough of this mf

[knotty needle]

he posted cringe was thus executed

[late swallow]

for real?

[gaunt phoenix]

yer

[gilded tinsel]

Hacked by Monster Energy drink

[late swallow]

what a bum!

[vivid vessel]

Ye I didn't like what he was posting

Had to eliminate him

Cringe guy

[torpid fiber]

If posting cringe could get you banned this channel wouldn't have any new messages

[covert kestrel]

green zac is bac

[vivid vessel]

Glad he is gone now

[hardy thicket]

wait

maybe its ryukage

[tulip quarry]

KSed him XD

[vivid vessel]

Green bac is zac

[gaunt phoenix]

He was phished by like an irl friend

[hardy thicket]

he had his revenge

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/visitor-1000visitor-jokes-joke-congratulations-gif-16441277

what he clicked on

[knotty needle]

how did he manage that

[sudden fulcrum]

what a ding dong

[vivid vessel]

I sent him a feet pick

He couldn't resist

[knotty needle]

understandable

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/no-more-scamming-adults-into-thinking-theyre-stars-i-think-you-should-leave-with-tim-robinson-dont-trick-adults-into-thinking-theyre-stars-do-not-deceive-grownups-believing-theyre-stars-tim-robinson-gif-15001126793332038732

[late swallow]

i hope he gets his account back soon

[torpid fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/discord-mods-heading-to-announcements-discord-mods-announcements-scam-links-gif-25118530

[late swallow]

holy what a banger deep cut

[torpid fiber]

The gif is so fucking good

I bring it out whenever I get a chance

[covert kestrel]

but i got a dm from zac saying he'll teach me how to outlaw if i send him a western union and my social security number

[dull rapids]

tysm

[jolly geyser]

real

[gaunt phoenix]

i forgot rtb, you rtb slightly before the pull, and then during the stealth windows etc. you still rtb if you need to rtb

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB as you enter the dungeon to get 2 Supercharger stacks.
• DO NOT RTB again inside the bubble as you will lose the supercharger stacks, similarly do not AR early inside the bubble or you will lose the combo points.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open on pack with AR into BtE.

[gaunt phoenix]

there is also some prekey stuffs to stack supercharger

[random stirrup]

btw it seems like the charged bolts proc (that lasts 15s) will pull you out of stealth

[gaunt phoenix]

[vivid vessel]

naaaah

naaaah

well that doesnt change anything honestly

[gaunt phoenix]

i knew there would be something

[vivid vessel]

im perma out of stealth

cause ks dot

blizzard devs are imconpetent

[random stirrup]

its a bit hard to tell because ptr ui

[vivid vessel]

[gaunt phoenix]

im not installing

ptr

[covert kestrel]

thats how you get your discord hacked

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

[vivid vessel]

i ghave ptr installed

im not loggin in

when there has been 0 changes

in 3 patches

[random stirrup]

you need to do the belt quest anyway

[sudden fulcrum]

plz QA for us because we fired all our QA people plz install PTR cmonnn guys

• Blizzard

[gaunt phoenix]

ryldd

can you test something for me

Is this true split damage

or like split damage but gains 30% per target

[random stirrup]

i can try soon

[gaunt phoenix]

[vivid vessel]

true split damage soudns cooked

dowe have things that are actually like that

[gaunt phoenix]

in simc it is implemented as a true split

which is something a mistake

sometimes

[vivid vessel]

That's certainly a mistake

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

[vivid vessel]

Imagine if it's just split kekw

Like

You lose prio damage

And don't gain anything

Good proc my giy

Ty blizzard

[random stirrup]

are yall also ready for charged bolts to hit immune adds on vexie and mugzee mines

[torpid fiber]

Isn't the weapon we're using true split or is even that not true split

[sudden fulcrum]

it will probably hit out of combat mobs and dead ones too

[random stirrup]

goodbye dmg

[knotty needle]

wouldnt even surprise me

[gaunt phoenix]

nightfall is not true split

[torpid fiber]

Wtf

[vivid vessel]

im not aware of a single true split thing

i dont think that exist

[gaunt phoenix]

like on 5 target it actually does nothing

well not enough to beat a 684 belt

[torpid fiber]

I assumed everything was true split why tf do they not put this in tooltips

[gaunt phoenix]

[vivid vessel]

it doesnt have stats tho

so it didnt surprise me that much

[gaunt phoenix]

kind of lame

[gaunt phoenix]

is this 5 target damage low 🤔

[red zinc]

used to exist, said in tooltip before if something was split but scaling with up to 5 targets (meteor)

now it just doesnt say that anymore

and its always meteor

so i get the confusion

[craggy quiver]

Does this belt come out tomorrow, or is it time gated

[red zinc]

691 tomorrow

[craggy quiver]

Gotcha

[red zinc]

probably 3 week timegate for max upgrade?

no clue

[craggy quiver]

Seems probably true

[gaunt phoenix]

at 691 the bolts are 3% st instead of 4%

[craggy quiver]

Felt like this tier is being dragged out so long

[red zinc]

i mean

the tier will be just as long as any other

[craggy quiver]

Maybe it's me lol

[red zinc]

they're just doing more "content" to keep people playing so it feels longer

lotta people wouldve quit by now normally

[craggy quiver]

True

I feel like I have to log in and get the belt

Instead of raid log reclear

[red zinc]

that belt is going to be cringe as hell next season @gaunt phoenix isnt it

[vivid vessel]

[red zinc]

probably bis for pure st whole season looking at those numbers

[vivid vessel]

4%

isnt big

[red zinc]

you get what

[vivid vessel]

i think we are fine

actually nvm

[red zinc]

678 + 39

[hybrid crown]

I wonder if the healing one is op for dps

[vivid vessel]

4% is going to be hard or

[craggy quiver]

Next tier gonna be a pistol shot tier

[hybrid crown]

Like if a raid team all uses it like last season

[craggy quiver]

Set

[red zinc]

sim a 717 / 724 belt with stats against it on ST

[random stirrup]

with outlaws insane stat scaling a 4% proc will surely be swiftly replaced right guys

[red zinc]

if you want to

im curious

prolly still 2% gap

[vivid vessel]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hybrid crown]

The rest of your gear including weps would need to be high ilvl I think

[craggy quiver]

Inc mastery rework

[red zinc]

big week

thursday

[vivid vessel]

nvm i dont have time rn

i need to go take my train

[craggy quiver]

What's going on Thursday

[vivid vessel]

you do it tim

[red zinc]

idk how to sim belt

im not smart

[random stirrup]

go ptr sim and put this in

copy=CHARGED_BOLTS
waist=durable_information_securing_container,id=245964,titan_disc_id=1236109,ilevel=701

[red zinc]

no clue how to ptr sim

[red zinc]

aw hell naw

[random stirrup]

[red zinc]

this channel is doomed for a full season

its joever

[craggy quiver]

Lol

[red zinc]

and aoe itll be like

1.5% downgrade probably

[hybrid crown]

With other gear being high ilvl/having more agi

That might look different

Or is all gear in that sim 717+

[red zinc]

no

dont see why that would matter though

not to any noticeable extent anyway

[hybrid crown]

I guess it was a bigger deal with circe because of how much stat rings have

[red zinc]

yeah thats secondaries

agil doesnt diminish

the % diff will be lower with full gear since you do more total damage

but -60k aint changing that much

[hybrid crown]

Yeah that's what I was getting at

But belts don't have enough secondary to counter it compared to circe I guess

[vivid vessel]

NOOOO

NOOOO

[gaunt phoenix]

with 724 scaled gear

[red zinc]

im the goated feelycraft simmer btw

2%

🧑‍🍳

[keen belfry]

working rn

[vivid vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/the-punisher-frank-castle-punisher-no-frank-castle-no-no-no-no-gif-24489266

[hybrid crown]

Oh well I kinda like weird damage procs

[red zinc]

i dont like having ugly ilvl + sacrificing stamina for damage

[vivid vessel]

I don't because it doesn't scale in AOE

[red zinc]

is cringe

[vivid vessel]

I wouldn't care if blizzard stopped

Making st things innky

Only

With an AOE drawback

[gaunt phoenix]

inky

[vivid vessel]

It's so fucking. Cringe

[red zinc]

i know the solution

make all st trinkets / procs blade flurry

REAL

(only for us)

[random stirrup]

@gaunt phoenix had to do a delve to unlock the crystal which for some reason has the same bolt name as the good one: st and 5target aoe

[red zinc]

AOE BEACON 🙏

[random stirrup]

looks like it is doing the meteor effect?

[vivid vessel]

Ye

Obviously

True split doesn't exist

[gaunt phoenix]

Is that 4 or 5 dummies

[vivid vessel]

I wish they changed the split damage formula

So it would do 100% to main target

Then 30% of that damage to additional targets

[random stirrup]

its 5 the blizzard combat log is just really small

[vivid vessel]

It's so troll when Yoh waste all the damage into useless mobs

[random stirrup]

the 5th was hit for the same one as the first guy

[vivid vessel]

And useless mobs are so often in m+

[red zinc]

yoh mama

[vivid vessel]

Why is there one doing 500k above

[gaunt phoenix]

didnt crit

[vivid vessel]

An

But then

The st one didn't Crit either

Soo

Do math

[random stirrup]

yes so it went from like 1.3M to 3M ish total

[vivid vessel]

I'm walking rn

[random stirrup]

if u pretend they didnt crit

[sudden fulcrum]

EH! I'M WALKIN HEA'

[gaunt phoenix]

Non crit should do 1352165 * 2.5 / 5 = 676k to each target

so the math is almost mathing

[random stirrup]

let me get another st one since I had alch chaos on originally

it mightve procced vers

[vivid vessel]

Why is I not

[gaunt phoenix]

first target could have had fazed on it or smth

[vivid vessel]

Fazed shouldn't work with items

[gaunt phoenix]

true

[vivid vessel]

I say that but It might

Did you know assa amp magnet

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

[vivid vessel]

With their nature damage amp thing

[gaunt phoenix]

hunters mark? idk

[vivid vessel]

Sub does the same still with shadow I think

[random stirrup]

no one else around this dummy

[vivid vessel]

Nah, they have nature's damage amp after dm ends

Forgot the name

[gaunt phoenix]

just thinking what would amp the item here

[vivid vessel]

Ah

Ye

[random stirrup]

er well

there was a boomie on the aoe thing

and the proc is nature

[gaunt phoenix]

u can also fly into normal rookery

[vivid vessel]

What does Boomie do now

[random stirrup]

idk maybe some nature amp

[gaunt phoenix]

to eliminate dummy shenanigans

[random stirrup]

yes sir

[sudden fulcrum]

moonkin aura

[vivid vessel]

Kekw

[sudden fulcrum]

critical strike amp i believe

[civic zephyr]

did they fix weapon swap macro in m+?

mine is no longer working

[vivid vessel]

No

You can't swap gally weapon

[civic zephyr]

omfg

im stupid

thanks zac

youre sexy

[vivid vessel]

I know

[gaunt phoenix]

not stupid

u have no way of knowing

[random stirrup]

do u have a different dungeon suggestion since the proc rate is so low i gotta auto attack these things for like a minute straight if unlucky

[civic zephyr]

i love that zac just knows too

[random stirrup]

im getting whacked

[gaunt phoenix]

ummm i would evasion and if it fails, vanish and try again a min later

[vivid vessel]

Cinder

Yellow mobs

[random stirrup]

are there enough to pull 5 of them

[gaunt phoenix]

u dont need 5

[random stirrup]

or is 2 enough to see

[vivid vessel]

Yep

[gaunt phoenix]

ya

[vivid vessel]

You can pull 3 or more

Only yellow

[random stirrup]

aoe, st

the proc rate is absurdly low btw

[gaunt phoenix]

math is mathing

[random stirrup]

i unequipped gushing wound and both my regular daggers since they had depths and i killed 4 of them just auto attacking before it procced for the st one

[gaunt phoenix]

its 1.5 rppm hasted

so ye

[vivid vessel]

I'm confused solo

Why does simc things

Default to this

When it's never a thing ingame

[gaunt phoenix]

[opal raven]

still no classe changes... is it usualy dropped this late before patch ?

[bright crane]

I wouldn’t hold my breath for classes changes until 11.2

Blizz been riding the struggle bus with the 11.1.5+ releases

[gaunt phoenix]

@random stirrup could i bother you to log it

eh the pics should work

[random stirrup]

I could go back and try to log if u want

[gaunt phoenix]

dw about it

[random stirrup]

if you're trying to get exact math I did have the primary stat crit dmg increase gem on

[low sinew]

Hmm when i'm pressing Sinister Strike/Ambush my character sometimes just punches the enemy and doesnt generate combo points anyone know why?

[gaunt phoenix]

ummm

you might be in stealth and accidentally have cheap shot on your bar

and you are pressing that thinking it is ambush

[low sinew]

ohhh

yeah youre right xD

i put cheapshot on my ambush slot while trying to get achievement done a few days ago

[gaunt phoenix]

oopsie

[low sinew]

||I also went into Heroic and Mythic raid with this and didnt notice ||

[gaunt phoenix]

[keen belfry]

i dont understand doing big momma efficiently with phys comp

[red zinc]

[vivid vessel]

bait on walls

[red zinc]

the real trick is play assa

[keen belfry]

this could be it, like i was blasting and our momma timer was just 4;40 on an 18

[red zinc]

Did you bl it

[keen belfry]

i did 800mil to mommy

[vivid vessel]

its a long ass boss tho

[red zinc]

On the 19 we did 3phase + 20s of boss hitting

with each phase being just before barrier

Idk what time that adds up to

[keen belfry]

yeah im guessing our baits are terrible and there are moments im simply not hitting the adds cuz gone

[red zinc]

Crazy to me that title will probably be like all 19s and maybe even one 20 though

depending on how much boosting gets done last few weeks

[vivid vessel]

[gaunt phoenix]

BOOP

[vivid vessel]

BIP BOOP

[gaunt phoenix]

that's a comment on your stream?

[vivid vessel]

ye on one of my videos lol

I mean he aint wrong

blizzard fault tho

I prefer sounds to watching nameplate casts

[red zinc]

I mean not to glaze

But even if those people had your entire setup they couldnt do what you’re doing

[vivid vessel]

I mean i know

[red zinc]

carried by addons is such a stupid thing

[vivid vessel]

this is a classic player take

game was harder in classic

(one spell per raid boss btw)_

[red zinc]

addons are a prerequisite to play (both in m+ and raid)

Not a carry

[sudden fulcrum]

spamming sinister strike hard

[nocturne lantern]

Is it possible to cancel killing spree? If so, how?

[obsidian walrus]

i really dont know how the game will be with no WA

[gaunt phoenix]

Nop

Cancel it by death

[sudden fulcrum]

i think the people that think WAs are playing the game for them have just never done keys where any mechanics actually matter enough to need/want a WA

[red zinc]

they arent removing weakauras

like

that was one ion interview

that instantly got backpedalled

[fluid meadow]

do u remember shrine of the storm? just one chain interrupt mechanic on boss and jumping for pillar, but pugs wiped so much there

[red zinc]

the only thing they've been consistent about is removing the necessity for raid boss weakauras that solve mechanics

[sudden fulcrum]

Shrine was really awesome thematically but not a fun dungeon for pretty much every other reason

[vivid vessel]

but also

you know you can add soudns to private auras

like thats something even blizzard realized was good

and neccesseray

[keen belfry]

explain big mommy @vivid vessel

[vivid vessel]

and private auras are the most barebone trash ever

if blizzard makes a boss addon we will have soudns

[red zinc]

its just like

[vivid vessel]

kill adds

kill boss

[red zinc]

blizzard started talking about the addons stuff and presented the most extreme solution to start out

[keen belfry]

mmm ok ok

ty

[red zinc]

and then went back on it

but nobody saw that part

the communication aint very clear to the average wow player

[desert tendon]

@proven ocean

from

https://x.com/Method/status/1917262516423401952

Method (@Method)

One IKEA trip later…

Join us in welcoming our 10 newest raid trials, including a grand total of 9 Swedes!

X · Apr 29, 2025, 4:59 PM

to

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/315079745098350592/1384199033324703744/image.png?ex=68518f4e&is=68503dce&hm=6944f056346cd64b7dfc058dc21ee71a77f77cc298a88c00313d40e4cf4e0217&

wow guilds are so doomed

[novel timber]

what did they ultimately say they were removing?

[vivid badge]

Is there any reason to ever cancel blade flurry feel like I have heard about that but not sure why

[stiff glade]

If you have classes with funnel in your group that benefit from adds staying alive on a boss, you could help them do more boss dmg by not cleaving them down

But like

You look bad on the meters

Your call

[plucky rose]

Why does this macro not work for me?：/cancelaura slice and dice
/cast slice and dice

[gaunt phoenix]

what's not working

[plucky rose]

slice and dice cannot be used continuously

[strong cargo]

But you have CPs ? 🤔

[gaunt phoenix]

you have to trigger the snd bug correctly

It doesnt just work

[plucky rose]

just one

[strong cargo]

If you don't lose snd when you press it then your "/cancelaura slice and dice" is wrong

[plucky rose]

could you tell me how

[gaunt phoenix]

i suspect the cancelaura part works correctly but they are instead wondering how to spam snd over and over, which is a bug

[plucky rose]

I see zac uses it all the time.

[glass mortar]

Everyday I get close

[strong cargo]

🤦‍♂️

[glass mortar]

To buying a flight to paris

To throw a baguette at zac

[gaunt phoenix]

you have to activate supercharger and then consume it once normally

[glass mortar]

For making everyone wanna do this worthless bug

[gaunt phoenix]

then snd is broken until your next real finisher

[random stirrup]

imagine how many poor outlaws out there are just holding finishers for the last 8 seconds of a pack so they can trigger 15s of cdr with snd

[red zinc]

to each their own i suppose

the priority of people learning a class always baffles me a bit though