outlaw

[gaunt phoenix]

mfd was good skill expression

[glass mortar]

everything else about it just punishes u tho

[frail veldt]

mfd is 1000 times better than gs

[glass mortar]

eats ur energy budget, is not worth tracking compared to macroing, punishes target swapping

[frail veldt]

mfd feels good to press

just like adr for cps

[glass mortar]

MfD did none of those things

[gaunt phoenix]

replace gs with mfd on tree

[frail veldt]

gs feels awful to press

ONLY time gs was not awful

was when we had old ER

[glass mortar]

i mean that is the rework i wanted for GS solo

[frail veldt]

that was the ONLY time

[glass mortar]

reduce or remove the damage amp debuff, buff the CP gen, reduce energy cost

just make it a MfD that has an attack animation and a lil damage thats main goal is ogcd cp gen

ogcd cp gen is always fun on law

[gaunt phoenix]

man

mfd

good times

[late swallow]

MFD was cool as hell

[obtuse hollow]

Mfd reroll mfd reroll mfd reroll

[hidden bay]

Replace gs with er

[late swallow]

old ER

rip a real one

[hidden bay]

Er felt so good man

[gaunt phoenix]

kyrian dust with mfd and er

[hidden bay]

Supercharger meanwhile negative gameplay

[glass mortar]

old ER unironically made ghostly not feel as bad

sniping blue CP with ogcd ghostly

even then it was bad but at least it felt like there was a reason to track it

[fluid turret]

hello what weapon is better for outlaw . crafted or the fist weapon hero track from mug u can get for jetons

[obtuse hollow]

Now I think about it I think bfa was my least favorite iteration, where u spend half your cps rerolling

Or it's legion

[gaunt phoenix]

Crafted mainhand

[fluid turret]

does it matter what type i craft , like fist , sword etc

[glass mortar]

legion was spender RtB, pretty sure that was gone by bfa (i didnt play outlaw s1 tho so i could be wrong)

[gaunt phoenix]

Nope its the same

[fluid turret]

oki thank you

[gaunt phoenix]

sword fist axe mace

Yes it was gone in bfa

[cinder relic]

It was removed in SL

[gaunt phoenix]

no it wasnt

[cinder relic]

BFA had CP RTB still

[gaunt phoenix]

im cooked

[cinder relic]

BFA had spender RTB lil gup

[gaunt phoenix]

ye i corrected myself

[obtuse hollow]

It was extremely cringe that you kept building to reroll

[late swallow]

old ER should be a choice node with SC

but the ER CP should act like SC

[obtuse hollow]

And not doing anything until you get crit

[gaunt phoenix]

Did you know current HO rolls more often than BFA rn

[cinder relic]

Well that was just misunderstanding the class

The classes damage was generators, not dispatch as much

And a lot of the value of a finisher innately was restless blades

[gaunt phoenix]

and big BTE crits were higher prio than rtb

[obtuse hollow]

It's not about the actual dps, more like it felt like crap to do

[cinder relic]

Thats fair

It never bothered me too much

[glass mortar]

remember what they took from you

[cinder relic]

50% ar uptime and actual CP rules

[glass mortar]

man legion was wild times

20% leech

this wasnt even a good buff

[cinder relic]

U should go check the beta RTBs

[glass mortar]

but goddamn the leech

i wonder if i can find em on wowhead

[frail veldt]

20% leech is silly

[valid kindle]

it's what dh still has in meta

[obtuse hollow]

But u still weren't the leech king

[valid kindle]

for some reason

[frail veldt]

........what the fuck is that

[obtuse hollow]

Aff in legion

[cinder relic]

beta RTB concepts

[frail veldt]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[obtuse hollow]

Drain soul was like casting lay on hands on themselves every tick

[gaunt phoenix]

they were cooking

[keen belfry]

35%

[frail veldt]

jesus

[glass mortar]

whats funny is the current MW bug is basically them getting these broken RtB buffs permanently

now that i think about it

[frail veldt]

wdym

[frail veldt]

thats fun

[glass mortar]

EXPLODE YES HELLO

THIS IS WHAT I WANTED FOR LUCKY COIN

[frail veldt]

explode sounds amazing

[gaunt phoenix]

1000% attack power

[glass mortar]

when u proc the damage lucky coin it should launch an exploding coin at the enemy

[cinder relic]

[cinder relic]

https://tenor.com/view/ultrakill-when-you-uhhh-the-gif-25052421

[obtuse hollow]

Would be nice if i can actually stack mastery for once

[glass mortar]

yeeees

[gaunt phoenix]

they should let rtb deal 1000% uncapped aoe

[lime lake]

real

[glass mortar]

this is the bugged talent

look at the values of those buffs

the bug is u basically get to have all of them permanently

[gaunt phoenix]

wtf

delete

[frail veldt]

LOL wat

[leaden folio]

restless blades reducing cloack of shadow was peak gameplay

[glass mortar]

yea

[obtuse hollow]

Ok blade flurry hard cap = your number of dice

[cinder relic]

Restless blades never worked on cloak afaik

[glass mortar]

by default u spawn 1 pool of mist every like 6 seconds or something

[cinder relic]

It was true bearing that worked on cloak

And restles blades never existed

[glass mortar]

so obviously ur pretty gatekept from the buffs

[cinder relic]

Restless blades was added to fix the variance of "true bearing or the spec doesn't function"

[leaden folio]

oh it is possible

[cinder relic]

as true bearing was the only source of CDR

[frail veldt]

so how do they get all of them

[glass mortar]

but they discovered if u spellqueue gift, you can cast it twice in a row with the second one having no mists, and for some reason the second one with zero mists casts as if it had max mists

[leaden folio]

because I remember farming old raid and having cloack every timer

[glass mortar]

so u just get a 30 second one of these buffs everytime u cast it

like every 4-6s

[gaunt phoenix]

MW has rtb

[frail veldt]

what the fuck rofl

[gaunt phoenix]

wtf

[frail veldt]

does gift not have a cd?

[glass mortar]

also it doesnt pandemic

it stacks up to 60s

[frail veldt]

I dont know anything about mw

[glass mortar]

gifts cd is the resource it consumes

[obtuse hollow]

Does it still work?

[lime lake]

it doesnt have a cd because you cant cast it without mists

[valid kindle]

logs with that bug abuse are being flagged because it's so absurd

[glass mortar]

in combat u spawn "pools of mist" which are basically dh souls based on time period in combat

[frail veldt]

aaaaaaaaah

[valid kindle]

but it's still not fixed

[frail veldt]

so its kinda like double coup bug

[glass mortar]

and casting it consumes them

a little yea

normally it would take like

45s or longer to max out a 30s buff with mist

[valid kindle]

like a double coup bug on horse steroids

[glass mortar]

instead u have these buffs tuned around that... permanently

ive heard its like a flat 30% or more healing and damage increase to do the bug

its kinda crazy blizz hasnt fixed it yet its been going on for at least 2 or 3 weeks now

every single MW key in china is doing it apparently

[valid kindle]

supposedly it's been known for at least a month

[obtuse hollow]

Oh that's why i was see mw doing so much dps that I couldn't replicate

I have to try this now

[valid kindle]

you won't see logs of people doing the bug btw

they're removed from rankings

[glass mortar]

i started trying it out in my meme keys with friends last weekend and its very annoying to manage because u need to constantly cast 1-2 mist sheiluns every 5-6 seconds

[obtuse hollow]

I saw it in some m+ logs

Not raids

[valid kindle]

at least now, I think a couple weeks ago they weren't

[glass mortar]

but the raw healing it gives u is absurd

u dont even need to do setups for raid aoes or m+ aoes

ur raw fistweaving healing just tops everyone

i think a single buffed jade lightning healed my full m+ group for 300% hp bars

and theres mw doing like 1m overall dps in dungeons with this stuff

[valid kindle]

tbf there's 1mil+ dps logs without the bug

[wintry solar]

Dang, I thought my dream of RtB exploding was original

[glass mortar]

yea it can prob go higher but u spend more resources actually healing (more of ur vigor) in the highest keys

lower keys will be where dps maxes out prob

[valid kindle]

I think even for m+ the logs with it are being removed

checking top logs of some random dungeons and not seeing anyone doing it

[glass mortar]

yea wouldnt surprise me it absolutely deserves to be flagged its an insane gap in healing

[valid kindle]

non-logged runs won't be removed from rankings though

[glass mortar]

our mw monk did it by accident (allegedly) on our first gally kill (only double cast sheiluns twice) and the log got invalidated

[valid kindle]

we have a mw doing it purposefully

at least it only invalidates his log

and the speed/execution

[glass mortar]

i mean i did it on purpose its very funny i just wouldnt do any serious content with it

[valid kindle]

this mf is doing it on gally prog

[glass mortar]

anyway just reading the values of those original RtB buffs reminded me of the values of these buffs

[obtuse hollow]

omg its actually working im mw main now

[glass mortar]

cause each individually is very big so having all of them is just

[fluid turret]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[obtuse hollow]

yes its huge af its like 25-30% amp for each of them

[glass mortar]

its so funny the buff was clearly never meant to overlap because it doesnt pandemic at all

[valid kindle]

I've seen the guy break like 11mil after we get out of the gally interrupt thing, it's a bit silly

[glass mortar]

if u do it so often u refresh a 30s buff it goes up to 1 minute

[valid kindle]

it'd be funny if people doing it caught a suspension

[obtuse hollow]

im surprised i never found out ive been playing mw for ages but i enver noticed u could double cast it

[vivid vessel]

can i see that for outlaw

its interesting how all the bars are like

after the mean

or whatever

its like positive rng

[gaunt phoenix]

1 minute https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5FN3LXkdPMdJNJqZ8xaPci/simc

ya they highroll more than low

[vivid vessel]

interesting

[glass mortar]

SOLO THE DK BAR IS ALMOST OFF THE SCREEN

ahahahaha

[gaunt phoenix]

lmao

[glass mortar]

running out of space here

[valid kindle]

what the fuck are those dev sims

[glass mortar]

hes simming short fight variance

[valid kindle]

oh missed the 1 min part

[gaunt phoenix]

some profiles are still old 678 ilvl

[red zinc]

wait what

[obtuse hollow]

i guess they cant low roll crazily, worst case they get one

[red zinc]

solo is that st with raid aura buff?

or what

[gaunt phoenix]

ya all buffs

[thorny spruce]

Why is my brain short circuiting. What site is that again?

[gaunt phoenix]

i just linked it

its just a bunch of sims

[glass mortar]

is solo simming on raidbots

[gaunt phoenix]

but was looking at rng not dps

[bright matrix]

Hi, can outlaw get out of the cages in mythic mug’zee or is shadowstep just too op ?

[glass mortar]

u can if u time grapple right but its inconsistent and honestly on our prog we didnt bother because its not needed anymore

[gaunt phoenix]

i think you can grapple right before it lands

[glass mortar]

i dont know the timing because i didnt even bother trying

but its something like grappling out as the cast is on 0.2 or 0.1s

maybe @vivid vessel has done it he could tell u

[vivid vessel]

yes

step doesnt work at all

you need to grapple right before it lands basically

[glass mortar]

i shouldnt say its inconsistent moreso its just a tight timing, if u get the timing it always works

[gaunt phoenix]

hm...

[glass mortar]

for evokers u can rescue out at 0.2-0.3s on the timer cast. for life grip its 0.1s

im not sure exactly what it is for grapple

[bright matrix]

TY guys ❤️

[glass mortar]

is that apm on a very short fight solo

[gaunt phoenix]

ya 1 min

[glass mortar]

i swear somethings padding fire but id need to look at a log

and i cant rn

even stacking haste with instant casts the arent at our gcd and they cant have that many ogcds

[desert tendon]

i mean

fire

is all off gcd

[frail veldt]

well we know dh apm is bugged

[desert tendon]

it s litteraly 2 buttons every gcd

[frail veldt]

and yeah fire I expect that

as you burn through fire blasts

esp with hero up

[glass mortar]

true u have lust for like half the sim as mage probably from natty lust + procs

and fire blast is a hasted cd

plus they get cdr on it from a million sources

lets peep a top fire mage HC log and see if its padded

[gaunt phoenix]

if you add up their APL actions you do get 107.13 actions in 60s

[glass mortar]

ok legit 26-30 of their apm (so like 30% ish) is just fire blast

makes more sense now

[frail veldt]

there ya go

[glass mortar]

fake news apm

[frail veldt]

I mean

not really lol

[glass mortar]

idk

[frail veldt]

you still have to press it correctly

[gaunt phoenix]

why is that fake

[glass mortar]

its way easier to do apm with ogcds

[frail veldt]

hows that fake apm at all

[glass mortar]

u can send them at anytime during the gcd

if u dont keep ur gcd spinning on the gcd

[frail veldt]

why is that relevant

[glass mortar]

it doesnt punish as hard

[frail veldt]

spell queue allows you to send on gcd at almost anytime during the gcd

thats literal apm

actions

the player is doing

per minute

[glass mortar]

because its easy apm

[frail veldt]

at correctly timed locations in your rotation

[glass mortar]

my apm is real and theirs is fake

[frail veldt]

its really not

[gaunt phoenix]

true

[frail veldt]

lol

[glass mortar]

especially when ur sending it during legit cast bars sitting in place

[frail veldt]

honestly the timing of fire blasts with the projectiles and such is way more nuanced than people give credit for

[glass mortar]

easiest apm in the GAME

only ones faking harder r tanks

[frail veldt]

its VERY easy to waste fire blasts if you dont consider projectile time

[lime lake]

Based take tbh

[glass mortar]

ehhh

ur overselling it

[lime lake]

Give the wizards nothing

[glass mortar]

i played 2 expansions of fire magus

that shit was ez af even if it was fast

[frail veldt]

it was easy for you

[glass mortar]

maybe its because there isnt as many "proc" reactions tho

[frail veldt]

be objective

[glass mortar]

fireblast is always a crit

if ur heating up its always a pyro next

[frail veldt]

theres SO MANY bad fire mages

and its not because the spec is easy

[glass mortar]

u know it the moment ur gcd starts to swing

[frail veldt]

its cuz its hard

...

like obviously rofl

the proof is in the pudding

[glass mortar]

well i think the spec is hard to play in the grand scheme of all specs in the game, probably top 10% of specs

[keen belfry]

yeah fire mage isnt "easy", its a simple spec thats hard to execute

[glass mortar]

but i think more of what ur experiencing is because mage has a huge playerbase

[frail veldt]

obviously thats the reference frame were discussing here

[glass mortar]

while most other hard specs do not

[keen belfry]

you legit have like 4 buttons to press as fire mage

[frail veldt]

why would you talk about difficulty in a reference frame of not "the specs in wow"

like what

[glass mortar]

because im using it in a referance frame to just my spec

because im an outlaw player

😠

and its competing for my apm

[frail veldt]

I think HO isnt much harder than fire mage

[glass mortar]

HO probably isnt yea

[frail veldt]

IF you include mobility and defensive usage of mage

honestly even not including that

fire and HO are pretty close

[glass mortar]

idk fire mage probably has it the easiest mobility wise of all the mage specs rn?

just looking at this

60 of its apm is instant casts

[frail veldt]

I just mean compared to rogue

[glass mortar]

sure

[frail veldt]

who has no defensive and no movement complexity

[glass mortar]

well

[frail veldt]

literally outlaw is the easiest spec in the game when it comes to defense and mobility

nocap

infinite speed/grapples/insane low defensive cd

rogue is a joke defensively no cap

[glass mortar]

defensive yes, mobility? is shimmer hard to use?

[frail veldt]

harder than grapple

yes

[glass mortar]

fire mage is just like perma running and shimmer if u need a teleport

[frail veldt]

and harder than having 80% sprint uptime

yes

[glass mortar]

grapple is aimed and shimmer doesnt need a cursor involvement

i think grapple isnt wildly easier then grapple

idk

sprint for sure

[frail veldt]

grapple is pretty easy hahahaha

you literally click where you want to go

thats definitely harder than shimmer

[glass mortar]

so is shimmer

[frail veldt]

no

[glass mortar]

i mean people literally complain about ground targeted abilities 24/7

[frail veldt]

shimmer is not a reticle spell

what are you talking about

shimmer only moves you one distance

[glass mortar]

dont act like mid combat, fighting guys, not interupting ur rotation, moving ur cursor to the exact point u want to go to

ok ur not arguing difficulty rn tho

ur arging power level

i agree grapple is better

i just dont think its necessarily easier

[frail veldt]

I mean power level is relevant here

if your mobility is OP

[glass mortar]

to difficulty?

[frail veldt]

then it makes it easier

yes

duh

if grapple had a 2 min cd

our mobility would be "harder" to use

cuz it would be less strong

and youd have to think about usage

[glass mortar]

i dont agree with that at all

[frail veldt]

same as if shimmer had only 1 charge

[glass mortar]

that makes no sense to me

[frail veldt]

power level influences difficulty of use

op things are more forgiving

they can be used with less consideration

and therefore are easier to use

[glass mortar]

it influences difficult of use if its limited by mechanics and you actually need to plan mechanics around it ahead of time sure

[frail veldt]

thats what were discussing rofl

[glass mortar]

my feeling on mage was always shimmer/bink was so accesible u had it whenever u needed it

same for grapple

[frail veldt]

same as defensive power

if you have op defensives

theyre effectively easier to use

cuz you dont have to think about when to use them

you just slam them

thats the main reason our defensives are op

[glass mortar]

what do u mean

[frail veldt]

and easy

[glass mortar]

op is doing a lot of heavy lifting here

[frail veldt]

if feint had a 2 min cd

rogue wouldnt be as "easy" defensively

[glass mortar]

ur telling me paladins bubble is easier to use then feint?

[frail veldt]

cuz wed have to plan our feints

[glass mortar]

its one of the most op defensives in the game

[frail veldt]

no its harder

cuz it has a longer cd

[glass mortar]

its full immunity with no costs

but its more op

its a full immunity

[frail veldt]

no its not

feint is better than bubble what

theres no world you would trade feint for bubble

youre capping

so hard right now

[glass mortar]

what did op mean right here

[frail veldt]

that would be so stupid

[glass mortar]

u just meant the cooldown

[frail veldt]

combination

[glass mortar]

clearly on a 1:1 basis bubble is more op then feint

the only reason feint is "op" is its cd

[frail veldt]

OP is a combination of strength and cd

[glass mortar]

literally the only part of it thats better

[frail veldt]

the more OP a defensive button is, the easier it is to use

that includes cd planning

[glass mortar]

sure i agree with that, i weigh cd as 99% of that tho and strength as maybe 1%

[frail veldt]

and strength

[glass mortar]

ur way of defining op is very weird to me

[frail veldt]

but you do the opposite for mobility?

lol

cuz we just talked about how mobility op is relevant to cd

and you disagreed

[glass mortar]

no not necessarily

[frail veldt]

so

thats just confusing now haha

[glass mortar]

i said i thought both shimmer and grapple were so accesible they were equal in that term

[frail veldt]

AAAAANyway

[hybrid crown]

Strength matters more than that

[glass mortar]

thats why it didnt matter to me in weighing them

[hybrid crown]

Fade is poopy

[frail veldt]

rogue mobility and defensiveness is very easy to use

[frail veldt]

its a combination

if you inverted fade

and made it a 2 min cd

[glass mortar]

i havent played mage since slands tho so maybe it got way harder

[frail veldt]

but 40% dr

[glass mortar]

mage in combat mobility was always a joke to me and i played it during RoP days

[storm drum]

shimmer is pretty easy

[glass mortar]

u had way more tools then u ever needed

just like grapple

[frail veldt]

grapples easier

[glass mortar]

defensives is better

[storm drum]

except it bugs sometimes and doesnt send you where you want to go

[glass mortar]

mage defensives take a brain

[frail veldt]

grapple is so so so easy

[glass mortar]

so is shimmer

literally thoughtless for fire

[storm drum]

grapple takes more time to actually move

even with mouseove

[frail veldt]

LOL

I mean

like 100 ms

[glass mortar]

and can be used vs any movement mechanic in the game

grapple cannot be used vs any movement mechanic in the game

[frail veldt]

yeah thats true I think our mobility was more OP when we had step + grapple

[storm drum]

even if it is 100 ms it is still mroe time now step step is easy instant with mouseover on the target

[frail veldt]

I dont think that strongly influences the difficulty of its use though

[storm drum]

so your opinion is greater than mine

[glass mortar]

idk i feel like people in this game find cursor abilities hard to use

i think ur underselling it

maybe its not hard for u

[storm drum]

or else ill be accused of arguing for having a differeing opinion

[frail veldt]

yeah maybe

[storm drum]

when comparing apples to banannas

[glass mortar]

whenever an ability is a cursor spell the playerbase complains about it 24/7 tho

imo thats a sign its not as easy as u make it out to be

[frail veldt]

I just think memorizing the blink distance is also harder than people realize

[craggy barn]

cursor abilities as part of ur rotation are hard to use, movement not so much

[frail veldt]

I mean what are you doing with your mouse

while doing your rotation

idgi

[storm drum]

using my mouse to move

[glass mortar]

turning and moving

[frail veldt]

you ahve to use your mouse to aim the blink too

they both require the mouse rofl

[storm drum]

or clickin ght ebuttons on the mouse and using a combination of wasd and mouse to move

[glass mortar]

yea a little, but not precise

[storm drum]

a flick of the wrist for shimmer

[frail veldt]

yeah then you just blink into another swirly

and die

[storm drum]

vs placing my mouse somewehre on screen and tracking my mouse which is harder

[frail veldt]

grapple you just click clear ground

idgi

yall need to play some aim trainers or some shit

[storm drum]

nah fam thats what forgetting where you start your alter time is for

[frail veldt]

theres no way you think thats hard lol

[glass mortar]

i didnt say its hard

[frail veldt]

oh yeah alter is anotehr one

[glass mortar]

i said its harder

then shimmer

and i stand by it

shimmers a joke

[craggy barn]

grapple is ez as shit to use just can bug out

[frail veldt]

I strongly disagree

[storm drum]

alter time is what makes the difference in mage skill cieling

[frail veldt]

grapple doesnt bug in any competitive content tbh

it works like 99.9% of the time in m+ and raid

[storm drum]

grapple bugs all the time

[glass mortar]

mage defensive use is their biggest skill ceiling imo

[frail veldt]

in open world

show me a clip of grapple bugging in a dungeon or raid fight

its very very rare

[storm drum]

grapple bugged for me last boss ML

[craggy barn]

shimmer is ez to use, but harder than grapple when ur trying to place urself specifically

[storm drum]

just wouldnt work

[frail veldt]

clip

[glass mortar]

they r not very tanky natty and they are unhinged tanky if they r good

[frail veldt]

see I agree

for sure

[hybrid crown]

It does that due to the pillars being los or some weird shit

That's predictable

[frail veldt]

when theres a ton of swirlies around

[craggy barn]

like i dont get this argument that grapple is hard

[frail veldt]

and youre trying to thread the needle

shimmer is way harder

[frail veldt]

same lol

[craggy barn]

u literally go where u want

[frail veldt]

HAHAHA ty zomb

[wintry solar]

I don't get this argument in general

[storm drum]

yeah idk what the conversation is abouteither lol

[hybrid crown]

Grapple always doesn't work at or near the pillars the boss bonks

[frail veldt]

whether mage or rogue is easier defensively/mobility wise

I was saying rogue is way easier

than mage

[craggy barn]

yes

[frail veldt]

both defensively and mobility wise

[storm drum]

nah mage is harder than rogue

[frail veldt]

yeah

I agree

[storm drum]

thats why there is less rogues

[craggy barn]

rogue is infinitely eaier than mage on hhose fronts

[frail veldt]

thats what im saying

[glass mortar]

yea i disagree

[storm drum]

less rogue players than there are mage players

[glass mortar]

also to be clear, it was fire mage, not "mage"

i think arcane and frosts mobility is harder to pull off

[frail veldt]

I mean idk if thats a decider

[storm drum]

its a general trend

[glass mortar]

fire has so many instants now a day u can have shimmer for every mechanic

[frail veldt]

jsut cuz they cast more? or do they play ice flows?

[glass mortar]

less instants

[storm drum]

way more bm hunter and ret paladins than anything else

[glass mortar]

more reliance on shimmering to dodge swirlies

[craggy barn]

shimmer is the easy mode for mage mobility

[storm drum]

not the hardest specs man

[craggy barn]

firedup has said only a few people can afford to not run shimmer

[glass mortar]

if this fire apm is accurate legit like 65-70 of their apm is instants mewo

☠️

u can just free run during that

[stuck sparrow]

mage skill ceiling is mainly there in pvp

[storm drum]

yeah fire barely casts

[stuck sparrow]

in pve not really

[frail veldt]

100% of our apm is instants

i keed I keed

dont @ me

[glass mortar]

sure

[storm drum]

arcane only casts arcane blast lol but still needs to stand still

[frail veldt]

haha

[stuck sparrow]

like as disgusting as i find mages in pvp

[glass mortar]

arcane has the hardest movement imo

[stuck sparrow]

that class has an insanely high skill ceiling

[craggy barn]

alter time is already miles more difficult than anything eogue has defensively

[glass mortar]

frost is in the middle, its ok but it definitly takes some preplanning

[stuck sparrow]

and its why tommy 1600 avoids the class being nerfed

[frail veldt]

high skill ceiling doesnt necessarily mean its difficult

[glass mortar]

oh i mean defensive wise mage destroys rogue

[frail veldt]

difficulty is more about skill floor

[glass mortar]

way harder to pull off

[stuck sparrow]

yeah but mage pvp

compared to say

warrior

or dk

[frail veldt]

sure

[glass mortar]

their toolkit is being super squishy and having unhinged tools

[stuck sparrow]

ook ook

[frail veldt]

lets leave pvp out

cuz thats a WHOLE different thing

[glass mortar]

outlaws is having unhinged tools and a 25% permanent wall

[storm drum]

alter time is the difference maker in mage gameplay tbh

[frail veldt]

I forget how privileged outlaw is defensively

[storm drum]

mastering alter time is so stinking hard most mages never press it

[frail veldt]

until I play another class

and I actually ahve to plan out what to trade and when

[stuck sparrow]

It's less so mastery

[wintry solar]

I love my unhinged tools :)

[stuck sparrow]

and moreso just planning multiple gcds ahead

[storm drum]

thats what is considered mastering a class....

[glass mortar]

i mean alter time is one of the coolest spells in the game

[stuck sparrow]

Go raid you can watch average player doesn't think more than 1-2 gcds in advance.

Tbh

[storm drum]

using al of your tools in necessary moments is what sets you above the rest

[glass mortar]

is like a low cd joint absurd defensive and mobility cd

[craggy barn]

my priest is telling me to plan defenisve usage for a specific spot in M OAB, LOL

[glass mortar]

that can be used to flexibily

[craggy barn]

ots so funny

[stuck sparrow]

rogue defensive usage planning

"yeah i press feint when spooked"

[glass mortar]

sometimes even when not spooked

[storm drum]

mage has high skill cieling just as rogue does with cc targets and what not

[craggy barn]

i see a thing about to go off, o press feint

or i dont

[storm drum]

i kydney shot mobs and ppll are like holy hell most rogues never press that

[craggy barn]

38% vers covers it

[stuck sparrow]

me everytime i see cd timings planning in raid

"you guys plan?"

[storm drum]

well its becasue you triple dr the mobs lol

[wintry solar]

"Its been a while since I pressed it. Better press it again"

[stuck sparrow]

kidney is a dps loss

[glass mortar]

dead players do no dps

but if the mob isnt targeting me i wont be dead anyway so

buffs my dps if u die

[stuck sparrow]

Yeah its a last resort

[glass mortar]

💅

[stuck sparrow]

if i have to kidney last resort ill do it

and proceed to flame the other person who didnt stop

after

[glass mortar]

btw for science reasons and absolutely NO other reason, has anyone ever 5 cp kidneyed another player on the pvp ToP boss

is it 5s or 9s

🙂

[stuck sparrow]

its only 5

[glass mortar]

damn

i mean good

[stuck sparrow]

You used to be able to 7s kidney people in SL

i did it on lords of dread

every week

[storm drum]

i mean in m+ there are all kinds of things to do and having an attitude where you think if others die it buffs your dps is wild....the things will take mroe time to die inevitebaly making your dps drop what?

[craggy barn]

imagine if we could take sting, and the affect could be applied regardless of kidney being resisted

that would be huge raid buff from outlaw

[glass mortar]

its a joke fam

[stuck sparrow]

but also on lords of dread

[storm drum]

its 9

[stuck sparrow]

we had an mw rop off 5 people

during an mc

[craggy barn]

pressing kidney would be huge

wait

hm

imagine if we got aoe kidney

[storm drum]

idk maybe its f secs i thought i got a 9 second off on someone

[craggy barn]

yall think wed take sting like a bee?

[stuck sparrow]

honestly the xav pvp duel

heres a fun tip vs casters

just walk into their character model

most people keyboard turn

[storm drum]

ok good lol sarcasm is hard to tell in context in type speech

[stuck sparrow]

and cant flip fast enough

[glass mortar]

just press kspree and make them angry

as they cancel 3 casts

u dont rlly care about winning during that anyway tho

just gotta keep ur rotation going

so u dont miss out on cdr

[storm drum]

lol i just stand there

[wintry solar]

I do wym?

[storm drum]

ive had ppl stand there and let me kill them

[glass mortar]

ive had rets legit bubble when we go down if im ahead

[stuck sparrow]

in SL when i did a top on dh

[storm drum]

ive had ppl stun and pop all cds on me insted of the fuckin boss

[glass mortar]

unhinged behavior

[stuck sparrow]

i killed the warlock pet

for the demon buff

[glass mortar]

ye

[storm drum]

that makes me unhinged

[wintry solar]

I only count that key successful if I win AND time the key

[stuck sparrow]

if you want to style on people

meta jump the coil

too

[glass mortar]

if u use cc or cds down there ur something thats for sure

[storm drum]

like if someone has better single target let them win for dmg buff its not hard thought process lmao

[glass mortar]

just go down and do ur rotation to keep ur cdr going and whoever wins wins

thats how i always do it

[stuck sparrow]

i mean i kidney people

because not using it upstairs

anyway

[craggy barn]

kidney into send trinket for massive bm

[storm drum]

tahts is facts as outlaw

[craggy barn]

get out of down phase as fast as possible

[storm drum]

im not losing AR

[stuck sparrow]

kidney into mandate was week 1 behavior

[glass mortar]

MANDATE

you dropped this

👑

[craggy barn]

u kidney into 30 stack magnet now

if u go down first time

[storm drum]

i dotn have mythic magnet i dont raid lol

i kydney into bike and killing spree

[stuck sparrow]

idk i play sub in top more

so i have triple dred cheap someone in the pvp section

[storm drum]

i play assa in top more

so im pretty dreadfully useless on bosses

[craggy barn]

top ass

[stuck sparrow]

You do like

1.8 on bosses

its ok

[storm drum]

assa carries half the dungeon for real

before gorechop trash and pulling mobs on gorechop chefs kiss for assa funnel

then all that nasty trash before the mage boss assa carries

yeah that is true assa does around 1.8 st even in bleed build

i still havent swapped to cleave/hybrid only have 3 more 15s to time and then on to 16s ill start thinking about swapping soon

[stuck sparrow]

yeah thats in bleed naturally

[glass mortar]

o lord i just witnessed something

if ur playing a class that uses best in slots dont have disenchant bound to ur main bars

this guy queued up disenchant right before he tried to activate his weapon and deleted it mid sprocket pull

[red zinc]

FIRE

[stuck sparrow]

not spellbooking that

i right click consumables from my bag

albeit

[frail veldt]

LOOOOOOL

[glass mortar]

he just walks out of the raid for a few seconds then stops and opens his character sheet

and has no weapon equipped

outstanding

[craggy barn]

lol

thank god for item restor

[glass mortar]

mhm

[stuck sparrow]

it was a boomy

i bet

[glass mortar]

devoker

they share a braincell tho i think

[stuck sparrow]

same thing

yeah

[glass mortar]

ex aug main maybe 🤔

thats so funny why can u spellqueue disenchant

ig for easier spamming

https://warcraftrecorder.com/link/86ae6ae8-6b77-4ae1-821c-2502fdd64ee2

theres the vid if u wanna see

[wanton sparrow]

Can someone help me decide what gems i put i will not use circrets and i dont know what to put i do only m+ https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cGSNmJz31CNzcoo1zsoyAJ
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/1MD6jgg1esbvXHgTg9ZF7W

[gaunt phoenix]

[gaunt phoenix]

gems arent really important, you can select these and forget about it

[wanton sparrow]

ok big dawg

thanks a lot!

[compact smelt]

!log

[west dirge]

btw question for outlaw the best logs and from raid fights or m+ keys would be good aswell?

[gaunt phoenix]

its all the same

HO logs are easy to read

KIR logs are cursed

[wintry solar]

All you have to do is read the necronomicon

Gg2ez

[sudden fulcrum]

https://tenor.com/view/dark-magic-dark-magic-101-peppermint-butler-adventure-time-gif-3773251877157237818

[hardy thicket]

the amount of times ive accidently HS:ed during pulltimer or right when fight starts tho

Ported as well to a M+ dungeon

[glass mortar]

[hardy thicket]

I dont even have this shit bound just on hidden bars and I must've accidently clicked it

[sudden fulcrum]

how do i handle my bars staying on stealth after i leave stealth? i don't think i'm supposed to spam ambush until my bar changes again, am i?

[slate plaza]

Sprocket prog commences tonight

Thank fuck

I don’t need to play killing spree

[slate plaza]

Huh

Setup a bar in stealth

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel 20 priory 1 shot with vdh comp xdd

super op

[slate plaza]

That is the same as ur non stealth, just go stealth and then drag things onto it per usual

[proven ocean]

rookery*

[glass mortar]

why would you not want to spam ambush? its your best builder

part of the reason HO is so strong is it always has access to ambush during its crackshot windows

[sudden fulcrum]

because i'm building combo points with no spender which seems wrong but i'm still figuring out how this works

[glass mortar]

well you should have your spenders on youe stealth bar

why wouldnt you

you vanish directly into a spender

[sudden fulcrum]

i didn't do this last time i played rogue, which was a long time ago

[glass mortar]

your stealth bar and out of stealth bar should be practically identical except where SS is out of stealth should be ambush in stealth (for HO builds)

[sudden fulcrum]

gotcha. thanks

[nocturne folio]

sucha shame the shiny stuff is not at real item levels... this thingy has 60% uptime in keys

[stuck sparrow]

low uptime

[vivid vessel]

@red zinc

im doing the impostor comp again

[red zinc]

sussy baka

[vivid vessel]

at least its colourfull

pride comp

[late swallow]

[sour vault]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[long barn]

When you gonna get a 21 down. Archon.gg telling me no outlaw rogues have a 21 only Sin

[west dirge]

!log

[fluid turret]

how do i optimaly play killing spree? it almost kills me every scenario in m+ lol either it puts me in a aoe after its done or im jumping around and gettin ccd

[slate plaza]

are we still running Gushing Wounds?

[teal wing]

devastation

[craggy barn]

gush or td

either is fine

[slate plaza]

whihc more big pp dps st

[teal wing]

go devastation

[slate plaza]

im basically raid logging atp

[craggy barn]

pay attention to whats happening before u decide to use it

[fluid turret]

should i make a cancel aura? if its even possible

[craggy barn]

u cant cancel it

[fluid turret]

ok nvm then

[craggy barn]

u either pre-feint to reduce damage taken

[slate plaza]

td looks the most used on archon

[craggy barn]

or u cloak to remove the dot

otherwise, u just have to actually pay attention

[tender wedge]

• it always leaves you where you cast it so make sure you’re safe before presssing
• get ready to hit cloak to remove dot
• hit feint / evasion for DR during
• know fights and learn safe times to cast

[craggy barn]

so u dont get ccd

[covert kestrel]

if there is constant danger aka the 3rd boss in dfc you can send at 1-2cp for approx 5% dps loss

[fluid turret]

aight got it ty guys

[olive bramble]

or you hold it and do a round of vanish bte's

[neat heart]

hey guys gear wise does outlaw ever use daggers

or not really

[hollow temple]

can be used in offhand

[neat heart]

@hollow temple is it just as good as sword

or is there a downside for it

[hollow temple]

its technically like 0.2% better unless the sword is higher ilvl or has an effect on it, not really worth worrying about

[late swallow]

!oh

[ornate heath]

A dagger offhand is technically like 0.2% better than a slow weapon because it generates more Instant Poison procs. That is the only difference, Fatal Flourish proc rate is normalized to be unaffected by the change in attack speed. Note that item level or stats will matter more than this quirk, or you can simply use a slow weapon anyway for transmog.

[neat heart]

oh wow

ty guys

[floral star]

Hey guys, do you have any tips for horrific visions? I use vanish to get the crackshot of, but then everything resets - how do i deal with this?

[neat heart]

bros if they ever remove 4x grapple

i will be in shambles

[sick monolith]

If you use the support summon thing, she will keep you in combat. most of the time

[floral star]

but wont that make the entire room more difficult?

[sick monolith]

🤷‍♂️

[floral star]

Which roll would be the best to have her as?

[sick monolith]

I was just using her as extra dps, not like outlaw is lacking survivability

[craggy barn]

i got bored and updated my weak aura pack lol

[floral star]

ty so much ❤️ I will try this in the morning

[craggy barn]

u can more consistently not reset combat if u are pressing BTE pretty much in the same gcd as vanish

i typically just swap to bleed assassination and just dot her up and chill instead of playing outlaw to avoid accidental resets

sudden demise pretty strong

[floral star]

Oh nice. Do you still run with the NPC? I am not having that high gear, so dont know what is best

[craggy barn]

not at all

im geared out of my mind

so i dont use the npc

most of the time when i reset a boss its because im not pressing BTE soon enough after vanish

[floral star]

okay, can i macro BTE and vanish?

[craggy barn]

no

[stuck sparrow]

No if you’re dropping combat with mobs

you’re pressing too slow

[floral star]

okay, then i will just have to try harder xD

[stuck sparrow]

you bte right when you vanish

…which you’re supposed to regardless

[floral star]

yeah, i think i will just have to be better

but thank you so much for your help all

[civic void]

Not sure why you are being told no but yes you can, pretty sure you will still need to double tap your keybind and it's no failproof

[floral star]

okay, so i will just have to double press it?

[sudden flicker]

u shouldnt do thata

[civic void]

Yes, and if you are a masher you could always add a castsequence to not consume two charges, I think there is a similar macro for tea somewhere

[civic void]

Why tho ? It's for vision lol

[sudden flicker]

just vanish between the enemy melees

resetting happens if u vanish while getting hit

[civic void]

and if you don't press shit fast enough, i don't get whats the big deal

[sudden flicker]

cuz i said so

what u gonna do aabt it

[hollow temple]

[long barn]

What haste does fate bound want for ST. Starting sprocket today

[late swallow]

depends on what build you're playing

HO or KiR?

[long barn]

Fatebound

Not trick

[late swallow]

[red zinc]

dawg

[late swallow]

send your talent loadout

[red zinc]

ho or kir

[long barn]

HO right now for M+

[late swallow]

are you gonna raid as HO FB?

or KiR FB

[red zinc]

[long barn]

HO I guess

[red zinc]

Then you need like 16 probably

Its a sim angle for ho

!haste

[ornate heath]

A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.

The KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.

The HO build gets Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[long barn]

I have both gears so I guess I need to see which sims better

!sheet

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[civic void]

FB HO is gonna play the old loadout without SC no ? So more like 9%

[long barn]

Is it far behind trickster

I mean I just want to not have to deal with KS for once

[late swallow]

you don't really have a choice on sprocket

[craggy barn]

u literally cant play trickster in sprocket

[long barn]

Yea so much beans

[late swallow]

ST between FB and Trickster isn't a huge gap

[long barn]

Beams

[red zinc]

that is trueing

forgot about that

[late swallow]

but the second there is more than one target, trickster pulls ahead

[craggy barn]

its not a huge gap, until u are unable to press KS, then trickster is dog shit

[late swallow]

cockgobbler lockandcock you gotta send FB though unfort

[valid kindle]

isn't the FB st build basically always KiR nowadays?

[craggy barn]

ye

HO FB is still like 5% behind KIR FB

[alpine valve]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB as you enter the dungeon to get 2 Supercharger stacks.
• DO NOT RTB again inside the bubble as you will lose the supercharger stacks, similarly do not AR early inside the bubble or you will lose the combo points.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open on pack with AR into BtE.

[sullen wyvern]

Guys be honest

realistically speaking how hard have you chain pulled with tdev so far

cuz GW is kinda whack and I want to add extra spicyness

[vivid vessel]

i have never pulled even once with tdev

honest to god

[sullen wyvern]

say less

[vivid vessel]

I play gushing tho

which might help

[sullen wyvern]

cuz I saw an outlaw in a pisslow rat key doing 100m dmg with tdev in 2 pulls

and I wanna do the same

[vivid vessel]

wtf

100 m ! !

100 big ones !

[craggy barn]

i havent pulled at all with td

[vivid vessel]

holy shomly !

[sullen wyvern]

dont mock me zac

im sensitive

[vivid vessel]

hm

is today supposed to be second dinar

i mean this week

[silver sluice]

yeah you should have 6 total

[latent belfry]

ks has pulled more then td for me

[vivid vessel]

!

i fucked up my monk !

how does that happen

wtf

[silver sluice]

sadge

[vivid vessel]

there is no way

maybe i forgot to give the quest back

im confusion

oh well

one week late

is ok

[sweet yoke]

I pulled the sleeping big guy after bubbles first td key then just went back to gushing

[red zinc]

zac

you are rookery expert i heard

[vivid vessel]

[red zinc]

Why do i sometimes not get debuff from void extraction and sometimes do

its random asf

Is it like rail los?

or some shit?

[vivid vessel]

idk honestly

but also

did you kno

these mobs

have a "frontal"

i only learned that like last week i think

[red zinc]

What

What mobs

[vivid vessel]

the big dude

[red zinc]

surely that doesnt work

Never been hit by it

[vivid vessel]

it does

you have

[red zinc]

Just low damage?

[vivid vessel]

ye i think so

but my healre

been spam pinging us

so i think he notices

[red zinc]

Huh

Vrazy

Im trying to figure out that void extraction shit though

Can you screenshot the tooltip for that

[vivid vessel]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/br24ADWaHp8fPtGF?fight=3&type=damage-taken&source=167&ability=472549

[red zinc]

just curious if it says anything

[red zinc]

Is that even supposed to hit us?

Lmao

[vivid vessel]

idk

[red zinc]

Maybe its a range thing?

Ill try it out

tmrw

[vivid vessel]

no its this i think

nvm

thats the pool thing

one sec

[red zinc]

Doesnt deal dmg

[vivid vessel]

ye idk

just a debuff

but idk what it does

[red zinc]

Damage dealt reduction on us

And stacks sometimes

[vivid vessel]

well this guy get 2 stacks each time

so -10%

gg bozo

[red zinc]

ye

thats what im saying

If u can prevent it its kinda big

not giga since you only play 2 but worth checkin

[long barn]

Is Zees Hotline worth using dinars on.

It’s still BIS in raid?

[dawn talon]

idc heal my guy

[vivid vessel]

fr fr !

[glass mortar]

r u sure this goes on us?

reads like he saps nearby allies of strength

[vivid vessel]

ye

[glass mortar]

as in hostile mobs

weird i never noticed a debuff

during this guy

you see it on urself in logs?

[vivid vessel]

i notice it cause i track my debuffs in big

like any debuff

and its in logs also

[glass mortar]

this is all fromt the big elemental dude that does the ticking aoe under 40% right

looks like vanish removes it?

[deft terrace]

i just did a dungeon where vanishing didn't give me subterfuge 4 times, any idea?

[glass mortar]

ya it does

thats interesting

do u have a trinket macrod onto the spell ur breaking vanish with

[deft terrace]

sure do

[glass mortar]

cant do that

[deft terrace]

oof

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel

[glass mortar]

@vivid vessel u saw that vanish removes that debuff right

idk if worth playing around tho

[vivid vessel]

didnt see

[vivid vessel]

[glass mortar]

i just peeped ur vods

[vivid vessel]

huge

outalw op

[glass mortar]

dissapears with 13s/8s duration each time u press vanish

seems good

[red zinc]

what the rookery thing?

[proven ocean]

[glass mortar]

ye

[red zinc]

bro

[glass mortar]

the debuff