I don't get
#outlaw
mighty pivot
is this like 3 pixels or what
vivid vessel
Having a ground targeted AOE is so trash
The moment you have a ground targeted AOE you aren't in control of your damage anymore
It's all on tank
I don't like that
That's bad and frustrating
mighty pivot
it only had 1.8s duration that's fine for ground targetted
mighty pivot
it's impossible to get griefed with such a short duration on it
random stirrup
The moment you have a ground targeted AOE you aren't in control of your damage a...
make it rain down cannonballs around u
ez fix
melee starfall
leaden folio
ye that just bf
mighty pivot
make it that you enter a cannon and launch yourself exploding at the first target you collide with
leaden folio
also I dont want dk to be the only class that can grip
make a talent that hook can be a grip
lmao
pnj can do it already
wintry solar
You want a talent that's useless half the time and huge when it's useful?
vale warren
They already gave vdh gorefiends
mighty pivot
vortex too kinda
wintry solar
Really any sort of deplacement effect can substitute for grip
vivid vessel
You want a talent that's useless half the time and huge when it's useful?
grips are soooooooo op
in m+
wintry solar
I see it all the time with ring of peace
wintry solar
For kicks sure
random stirrup
grip might be the best utility in m+
i mean even in raid dk often gets away with having no raid buff just due to having grips
grip is just op
vivid vessel
i mean even in raid dk often gets away with having no raid buff just due to havi...
i think its a bit more situational in raid
sour vault
For kicks sure
also grouping the trash up optimizes dmg
vivid vessel
But in m+ everytime dk is meta
leaden folio
dk have passiv numbing poison no ?
vivid vessel
It's just so fucking good man
Absolute banger playing with dks
Makes everything easier
limber dew
leaden folio
y
haughty wigeon
The moment you have a ground targeted AOE you aren't in control of your damage a...
Looked cool
haughty wigeon
They already gave vdh gorefiends
Always had chains
Also chains is a worse gorefiends
vivid vessel
Looked cool
you know what else looks cool
vivid vessel
deep falcon
is it worth pressing pistol shit with no procs if you’re not in range for sinister strike?
like if you’re getting blocked by anything
idk if it’s too inefficient for energy
vivid vessel
not really
vivid vessel
It's rare that you are out of melee without procs and also that pressing a ps natty would be worth
deep falcon
makes sense, probably just have to position better in the cases it seems like it’s the only thing i can press
thank you guys!
haughty wigeon
remote pecan
makes sense, probably just have to position better in the cases it seems like it...
if you find yourself in this situation while inside crackshot though and you have no CPs imo it's worth it so you can send low CP BtEs to fish for ace procs until you can get back into melee
covert kestrel
halo, what is best ecnhcant for head?
random stirrup
if you find yourself in this situation while inside crackshot though and you hav...
what kinda sussy situation did you press vanish in where your window is ps with no opp proc and somehow no cps -> low cp bte
frail veldt
It's rare that you are out of melee without procs and also that pressing a ps na...
If I'm out of melee for more than a global and I'm high energy I'm absolutely slamming PS no proc
Why wouldn't you
As long as it's not gonna delay my globals when I get back into melee
remote pecan
what kinda sussy situation did you press vanish in where your window is ps with ...
having to run out for certain mechanics while in subterfuge or having just pressed it, i'm 100% spamming any CPs i have while out of range on BtE trading in 1/2CPs for 5 from Ace Procs and continuing to be able to spam BtE while out of range is huge.
and if no procs, well you're no worse off
vivid vessel
If I'm out of melee for more than a global and I'm high energy I'm absolutely sl...
idk
tbh
this never happens to me
random stirrup
having to run out for certain mechanics while in subterfuge or having just press...
my point wasn't really that doing such a thing is bad once you're in that situation (it's better than sitting there doing nothing) but more why is it such a common thing that you have thought about optimizing it
most of the time u can also stay in melee as long as possible and grapple with mechanics to where u need to go (save opportunity procs etc.)
remote pecan
cause i slam everything on CD and deal with the consequences 
random stirrup
fair enough
remote pecan
it doesnt happen very often either it's just 1 of those things
random stirrup
1fth with broadside up is also quite nice for these things
pretty often ur going into vanish with opp procs up from ssing with disorienting strikes so u can just ps ur heart out
red zinc
Really hate the way all these articles describe class utility being bad now
Like they’re writing about their own class so i get it
mighty pivot
nobody has utility 
red zinc
But we should be bringing down the number of cc abilities not powercreeping everything up slowly but surely
like a class like warrior has the perfect amount of util imo
but its described as being lackluster because mage exists
mighty pivot
mage does exist
random stirrup
isnt warrior like one of the only candidates for actually having low utility
stiff hawk
rogue??
random stirrup
i mean ye rogue is another
red zinc
I mean idk having a group defensive, spot defensive, aoe stun, st stun, and debuff cleanse ability
Sounds like a good kit to me
we’re just used to these stupid ass classes with 4 stops each
Those should be tuned down instead of slowly creeping everything up
mighty pivot
their debuff cleanse is kinda bad, but the rest are useful
red zinc
gotta be way lower now
random stirrup
it is lower
red zinc
not certain but i see that shit tossed almost every plant on workshop 3rd boss
random stirrup
i remember them complaining when that one affix u had to stun was a thing
since they could only do every other set
random stirrup
also warr group defensive is kinda bad after the nerfs
red zinc
I hope their change in vision for mob design also comes with changes to aoe stops
Theyve been talking about it for a while but all thats come out of it is vdh sigil nerf every other patch
mighty pivot
so 30s on a single stun and 25 or 20s on their shockwave
random stirrup
so 30s on a single stun and 25 or 20s on their shockwave
ok ye that's not that bad then
rustic lotus
make a talent that hook can be a grip
It would actually be busted with restless blades and maybe we can run quad hook and be free of killing spree jail
red zinc
No lmao
leaden folio
what
mighty pivot
considering that kidney is 30s (for pvp reasons?) yeah theirs aren't bad
haughty wigeon
wdym they already made aoe stops irrelevant with the changes to interrupts
Bad change tho
Brought by vdh having 7 aoe stops in df
lime lake
It was indeed sarcasm
haughty wigeon
We really need to roll back the utility and defensive creep happening to every clas
leaden folio
It would actually be busted with restless blades and maybe we can run quad hook ...
im not blizzard ; but i would make it movementmove OR hook ; and cant be 4, only 2 like dk, and maybe not on restless blade
red zinc
No we shouldnt be adding more stuff lmao
haughty wigeon
It feels like every spec rework ends up having immortality and a large amount of extra dungeon utility
red zinc
this is the problem
rustic lotus
im not blizzard ; but i would make it movementmove OR hook ; and cant be 4, only...
No shot ur not gunna give rogue the chance to have scuffed abomb limb
stiff hawk
i remember them complaining when that one affix u had to stun was a thing
I mean we cant do the Orb Xalatath Affix every other set
And if no real mob is near them
rustic lotus
Also give me a glyph that turns my pistol shot into a super soaker Ty
lime lake
Just be belf
random stirrup
I mean we cant do the Orb Xalatath Affix every other set
yes the affix I was talking about though required everyone in the group to st cc though iirc
stiff hawk
IMAGINE CLOAK ACTUALLY BEING AN IMMUNE
red zinc
People complain that other classes are better util > rework gives said class even better util > other classes start complaining > blizz never rips off the bandaid because the nerfs will have to be larger and larger
random stirrup
the xalatath orbs can be done by anyone so it doesnt matter if you cant solo
haughty wigeon
Sorry I mean shroud
stiff hawk
yes the affix I was talking about though required everyone in the group to st cc...
He Incorporeal
rustic lotus
Yah I swear cloak doesn’t immune half the shot it used to
lime lake
The solution is delete mage
red zinc
they just need to take the L and complaints and fucking GUT utility next xpac
random stirrup
He Incorporeal
ye there were a bunch of them right
mighty pivot
make speed shroud base but give sub something good for it
stiff hawk
Remember the cursed timeline
lime lake
Speeder shroud
rustic lotus
The solution is delete mage
The solution is make killing spree dmg immune
rustic lotus
Give me that bfa blade dance babbeeeyy
Remember when blizz just started giving each pack true sight? Whaahoo
random stirrup
they just need to take the L and complaints and fucking GUT utility next xpac
i still cant believe they added mass barrier
that was INSANE
agile orchid
is the new event worth doing?
rustic lotus
I think it’s purely for fun no power attached to it
rustic lotus
Uh maybe later? Right now there’s only these shitty shoulders
rustic lotus
Yea
hardy thicket
where Mind Soothe even soothed True sight mobs?
Remember who said just make it so that true sight mobs cant be MS
rustic lotus
4 weeks
stiff hawk
Remember who said just make it so that true sight mobs cant be MS
They did that with Amidrassil
iirc
hardy thicket
Im not sure when they made it so but I remember it being heavily discussed during s2 DF when priest just completely made every true sight mob useless
And entire routes were depending on it
agile orchid
priest having a better shroud with 5 sec cd was insane
hardy thicket
And I said either remove true sight temporary to not fuck people over going for title. So you could do the same skips with a priest still or same skip with diff tools
Or just make it so MS cant be used on true sight
agile orchid
I think they need to chill with true sight mobs
almost every mob pack has it
it makes shroud pretty much useless
hardy thicket
Its a problem if entire routes are dependent on one class able to skip it
vague cape
cough priest cough
hardy thicket
Otherwise its just a "we dont want you to skip this"-thing
For example first pull TOP is great
Like 6 classes? Can do it
Or even more
vivid vessel
I think they need to chill with true sight mobs
They need to remove them lol
It's legit useless
Anything can be skipped
agile orchid
For example first pull TOP is great
sure but it's not like that pack is mandatory to skip, right
hardy thicket
sure but it's not like that pack is mandatory to skip, right
No just an example of when its fair
agile orchid
No just an example of when its fair
I agree
but having mobs like bubbles is so annoying
hardy thicket
I wouldnt mind removing it entirely either
Rogue/priest will be beneficial but you could perform the same skips with invis pot and some sort of speed boost. It would be a penalty but neglectable
Take me back to BFA with separate potion CDs and when you could combat pot every god damn pull
desert tendon
Anything can be skipped
dont forget
they do that mostly for the plebs doing 10's
they dont care about you guys pushing
they just dont like when skipping a big thing happens in 10's that s all
vivid vessel
Take me back to BFA with separate potion CDs and when you could combat pot every...
Crazy thing is on ptr tww pots were separate cd
Then on live it wasnt for some reason
teal ore
hi guys, how much do i need mastery for aoe?
cause i am doing good ST but my aoe feels meh
do i need a mastery trinket or something?
vapid sundial
Mastery is bad for us
teal ore
yea ik but like i see that a lot of outlaws use house of cards
gaunt phoenix
yea ik but like i see that a lot of outlaws use house of cards
thats just cause stat trinkets are good in aoe
it's not really that good tho, definitely not a secret to doing aoe dmg
fallen knot
i got this omega neck from a delve, but i also have a spark, do i just craft 681 neck or keep this?
ebon nimbus
so i know that i have 18% chance to get one roll. i just kept an eye in my last 12key on it and it happened over 7 times, that i ended up with 1 buff. if this is normal behaviour with ho builds, it is what it is. just wanna prevent i cause it do some false play
gaunt phoenix
you can only answer it with simc
blissful idol
i got this omega neck from a delve, but i also have a spark, do i just craft 681...
you basically have a lot of sparks at this point of the patch so just send craft after u sim
but who knows maybe delve one wins
gaunt phoenix
so i know that i have 18% chance to get one roll. i just kept an eye in my last ...
ya it happens but i wouldnt fixate on it
you roll like every 8 seconds
rolling is good you get supercharger
gaunt phoenix
its not the only part of rng
that we have
ace procs, energy procs, ambush procs
u can screwed by any of these in the short term
and yeah if you have less than 4 buffs active then you roll immediately, even in stealth
so you get supercharger and dont lose cooldown reduction on rtb
ebon nimbus
wait, then i mix something up. i thought 2 or less
gaunt phoenix
it's 3 or less
gaunt phoenix
4 or less vs 3 or less is the same really
ebon nimbus
all good, i missread faq
but now its clear
ty
and i feel i misuse vanish. so KS highest prio, dont use in sub windows as well. only to save AR. BUT - would i ever use it when i dont have AR? so i notice sometimes iam not able to keep AR up and have a short downtime
gaunt phoenix
no you dont really
ebon nimbus
so i do this wrong as well
gaunt phoenix
the charge system lets you hold vanish for AR without losing anything
sometimes you send vanish without AR if you just wiped and have nothing
ebon nimbus
but makes sense to save for AR
i see
in general i think i dont finish with proper cps as well. so general guideline is 6. beside iam in stealth, then i can bte at 5? (i ignore supercharger i guess)
gaunt phoenix
its this
ebon nimbus
its this
i quite did not understand the last part properly. i just means when i have those procs, i would finish at 5 due to i dont want to overcap cps, which i would with those?
gaunt phoenix
yep
but some overcapping is unavoidable
like ps at 4cp will overcap
but you have to 
desert tendon
The real question is. Did solo finally watched solo leveling or is he still slacking?
granite merlin
I want to play outlaw again but after every third killing spree I want to vomit lol.
It’s very sadge.
vivid vessel
and yeah if you have less than 4 buffs active then you roll immediately, even in...
Kir tho
gaunt phoenix
they're not kir
gaunt phoenix
The real question is. Did solo finally watched solo leveling or is he still slac...
nop
slow vale
So I am doing some simming this morning since it seems like we cant weapon swap thumb to OH... tell me if this makes sense:
Dung Slice 6 min
Knuckles + Cudgel = 5.136m
Thumb + Cudgel = 5.104m
Thumb + Knuckles = 5.100m
Knuckles + Thumb = 5.098m
Patch 6 mins (for bosses)
Knuckles + Thumb = 2.559m
Thumb + Knuckles = 2.559m
Thumb + Cudgel = 2.521m
So not using the cudgel on cleave will result in a ~.7% drop during cleave.
Using the cudgel on bosses and not swapping will result in a ~1.4% loss.
Then I tried using Crowd favorite OH for a patch sim to see what that does and:
Capos + Crowd Favorite = 2.553m
So, to SUPER min max in m+, we just wouldn't use the thumb... at all and would keep Capo main + Cudgel for the trash and then swap to Crowd favorite during bosses? Or do we just take the .7% hit during trash, but gain ~.2 % during boss fights and stop swapping?
gaunt phoenix
what item level is capo and crowd favorite
slow vale
all 684
gaunt phoenix
use capo mh and swap between cudgel and crowd favorite oh
slow vale
ugh... it just makes me sad not using my shiny gally mace, but yeah... that's where numbers make the most sense i suppose
gaunt phoenix
ugh... it just makes me sad not using my shiny gally mace, but yeah... that's wh...
ya gally mace is kind of undertuned
proc just does nothing outside of long raid fights
glass mortar
it makes sense
mugzee was the real end boss
his weapon is better then gallys
💅
blizzard just keeping the lore consistent
red zinc
proc just does nothing outside of long raid fights
I mean it’d be better than crowd favorite if you could swap
Not by much but
vivid vessel
ye i dont think it would
glass mortar
id be surprised if its even outside margin fo error on short fights
probably just straight worse/margin of error
red zinc
3min st
can go shorter i guess but 3min is pretty normal boss
for m+
dont think capo mh changes anything but sim it on yalls character otherwise
slow vale
I mean it’d be better than crowd favorite if you could swap
I simmed it... for 6 min encounters were talking ~.02%
so for dung bosses, which are max 2-3 mins, it will be worse
which is sad
leave it to blizz to give us a cool weapon that we would only use to kill that boss again
slow vale
you swapped specs and left outlaw
vivid vessel
nice try tho buddy
slow vale
so i dunno if i trust you any more
glass mortar
zac do u really use depths mh in m+
red zinc
i know my weapons
glass mortar
well i said it would be margin of error and it is 0.1% outside margin of error so
😠
glass mortar
also (allegedly) weaponswapping resets rppms to 0 (as if they had just procced and have minimum proc rate) for enchants and weapon effects
so
maybe its worse 😠
tbh ive been trying to find a source for what weapon swapping does and this shit has been so irrelevant since vanilla i have no clue if it does that anymore
red zinc
well it doesnt matter anyway
vivid vessel
zac do u really use depths mh in m+
no i use it for my off hand in st
red zinc
cause you dont weapon swap to a proc
glass mortar
well
i have 4 weapons now so technically i do have a radiant oh i can put on if i need
glass mortar
myth capo, cudgel, and 2 crowd favorites
red zinc
zac get a second capo and put depths on it
vivid vessel
red zinc
and weapon swap both
glass mortar
wdym swap both
vivid vessel
zac get a second capo and put depths on it
sure
red zinc
swap main hand
glass mortar
zac is using capo mh cause hes not a noob
red zinc
i mean honestly
mfs talking about doing all this 0.05% minmax stuff
why not this
why are we drawing the line
glass mortar
i mean the gap on st between depths and radiant is decent now
on st
cause they buffed it
cause they suck
red zinc
ye like 0.8%
glass mortar
i only have 1 capo so i cant do that
i used my dinar on a hotline for raid memes instead
random stirrup
but i wonder why nobody brought this up
probably with 3rd dinar itll be more popular
glass mortar
maybe yea i have nothing to use my last dinar on
red zinc
ok actually
in hindsight
people are going to start asking for macros for this
itll be horrible
never bring it up again
random stirrup
red zinc
maybe you time rookery with that one
glass mortar
i mean ur the top outlaw right? so if u do it everyone will feel like they need to
vivid vessel
But idk if I wanna deal with weapon swapping 2 weapons
glass mortar
💅
glass mortar
but yea depths is like 0.8% more per weapon which is cringe
vivid vessel
But I'm reformed now
glass mortar
pretty sizeable uppie
random stirrup
But idk if I wanna deal with weapon swapping 2 weapons
do you even really need a second macro
vivid vessel
I don't remember why I was doing it in SL actually
vivid vessel
do you even really need a second macro
Maybe not actually
random stirrup
the one macro swapping cudgel and the capos
glass mortar
weapon swapping triggers a gcd you cant do both at once?
random stirrup
is probably more than enough
random stirrup
unless ur turbo minmaxing radiant on bosses where cudgel is bad
glass mortar
out of combat it should work
vivid vessel
and u just get 1 gcd for two weapons
no
slow vale
Wait, do yall using gushing wound in keys over twilight dev?
glass mortar
ye
red zinc
hell naw
glass mortar
if ur not doing gamer keys u can use TD tho
glass mortar
unless ur pushing like world first keys where pulling an extra pack bricks the key
i mean
red zinc
shit never pulls
glass mortar
1% chance at bricking a key to a proc thats 1% more dps then gushing?
red zinc
theres like 2 spots in the whole game it can pull
glass mortar
yea no never taking that
red zinc
just watch out
random stirrup
the huge gushing st though
glass mortar
thats troll af
but in most keys even if u extra pull it wont matter, and it is pretty rare
lime lake
arcane mages have been playing with twilight dev all season
glass mortar
ye
they dont press kspree tho
imagine if mages rando blinked in a circle around the pack every 12s
lime lake
glass mortar
arcane orb fires in a straight line from them
they wuld ninja pull all the fukin time
orb also goes like 3X as far as TD tho
red zinc
idk man
theres literally 2 spots where it could possibly happen
i just dont look that way
late swallow
Td proc mid KS 
glass mortar
i dont believe that lol
ur tanks dont edge the pack towards the next pack while its at like 50% hp?
i mean i only play in pugs so the way my tanks act r random
late swallow
ur tanks dont edge the pack towards the next pack while its at like 50% hp?
What do the tanks do? 
rotund zodiac
ur tanks dont edge the pack towards the next pack while its at like 50% hp?
Most of my pug tanks only chain pull when the pack is like 1% hp left
I really
Hate it
glass mortar
ya thats the worst kinda chaining
daring cave
Most of my pug tanks only chain pull when the pack is like 1% hp left
in mid-high keys?
Ive been leveling several toons to 80 through timewalking these past few days
the ones where im not tanking are miserable because people dont know how to chain pull
they pull one pack and wait until its dead before moving on. and im trying to tell them they can pull more if the team isn't taking heavy damage but they just dont get it
bronze bough
Can anyone help me with this macro, i am running x2 crowd favorites, so i think the macro bugs out, and it doesn't change my OH weapon back again, just keeps swapping MH between my two crowd favorites?
glass mortar
u cant use that type of macro if u are using two of the same weapon name
u need to use a back slot macro
1 sec
i have typed it in here before
here u go
read this and below it
remote pecan
would be nice to be able to use item ids in macros for things like this
civic void
Is it not doable with 2 equipment set ?
glass mortar
probably idk if u can use equipmentsets in combat or put two equipmentsets in one macro
this is the easiest workaround i found
remote pecan
you could also just stick your duplicate item in the bank, if you dont actually need to use both at the same time ofc
glass mortar
i assume they are using two duplicate weapons as their st set (like i was)
hybrid crown
You can configure your bags to not auto sort specific bags. I made my back pack not auto sort and put my capo/cudgel in a certain slot in the backpack. This way it will never change slots from auto sort
glass mortar
2X crowd favorites
glass mortar
You can configure your bags to not auto sort specific bags. I made my back pack ...
by default they dont auto sort, i think u need to turn that on
mine have never auto sorted anyway
civic void
Fuck it dinar a capo and forget about this issue
hybrid crown
I press it all the time
glass mortar
wish i could hide it
hybrid crown
I like it for most stuff and turning it off for just backpack lets you drag more frequently used stuff like whetstones, flasks, etc into that bag to not mess up your shit for the stuff you need to quickly find
glass mortar
I have to know exactly where everything is in every bag
^
disorganized organization
wintry solar
It doesn't even organize the gear by gear type and ilvl
hybrid crown
That I agree is annoying as heck
wintry solar
I'm not gonna say I don't use it though. Sometimes, when I've been looting a lot and herbs are in my gear bag, I press it.
Just annoys me when I do
Or junk in my consumables
Etc
My favorite part of new patches is the completely emptying of the bags
sour vault
that button should come with a warning popup so you don't press it accidentally
It happened to me twice since it's been introduced and it still gives me PTSD
coral bobcat
anyone know if Coup de gra or KS have higher prio opver vanish with AR up (HO build)
i know you should send KS / coups on cd pretty much but ever over vanish to maintain AR?
glass mortar
if AR will literally time out if u dont vanish then u vanish
otherwise they both have prio over vanish
coral bobcat
https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/1276307559061524652/135103725024...
got it ty
gaunt phoenix
Ks has prio tho its not the biggest deal in the world
cinder relic
Bro said he hates mid and talked about mydas talisman being good
keen belfry
mydas hit hard
vivid vessel
Press it do damage
Holy shmoly
Wasn't even one event
Was just on auto's
Holy shmoly
keen belfry
guacamole!
anything more than that and you were leaning into the beacon territory
god i hated beacon
honest sparrow
Last funny trinket was Boon
vivid vessel
Nah bro
Can we not
Glaze trash
Look
Last funny trinket was grief torch
After they allowed us to move with it
keen belfry
what was beacons crit variance
keen belfry
like it could be >10% of dmg or it could be like 5% right
vivid vessel
Well ye
honest sparrow
Grief was really fun yea. Visuals looked cool dmg was good
vivid vessel
Ye
See
Trinkets dont need awful annoying gimmicks
To be fun
They can just have a cool visual instead
leaden folio
last funny trinket was drogbar rocks
wintry solar
Trinkets dont need awful annoying gimmicks
This is so wrong it woke me up
red zinc
Im Perma under NDA timmy
No Dookery Attempts
vivid vessel
This is so wrong it woke me up
?
Brother
You are popo
Anything you type
Is disregarded
wintry solar
The nerve
Gimmick trinkets are best
Hands down
Like that one that turned you into bees in SL
Wtf was that about
frank finch
the only cool trinket this tier is magnet
wintry solar
Magnet is cool
vivid vessel
Love gimmicky trinket
wintry solar
Bfa had bis trinkets though
covert kestrel
Remove killing spree then put it on a bis melee trinket so other classes have to feel our pain
civic void
Press boon and KS at the same time so you don't know what to blame for dying
civic void
Ryu would explode with this combinaison
glass mortar
its just good to have a barometer for the level of "fuck the player" blizzard has decided any direct damage trinket thats uncapped must have
wintry solar
Ryu left his mark
glass mortar
"well make it a 3 minute cooldown that does insane damage and roots them for 10 seconds"
all this so it can scale in aoe the way secondary stat trinkets do
wintry solar
They're the main characters
glass mortar
i mean its not even int trinkets is just direct damage vs stats
glass mortar
you know int users do get direct damage trinkets sometimes
vivid vessel
Well the guy doing trinket is at least
vivid vessel
Bro I wanna play wow
I'm so addicted
Crazy
What will I become the day they delete outlaw
vivid vessel
💀
glass mortar
zac I know some playtesters for the NDA version of fellowship rn
i put in a request to them to ask the devs for a high apm rogue spec
just for u
🫡
vivid vessel
If they rework ks I'm taking a week off from work
vivid vessel
zac I know some playtesters for the NDA version of fellowship rn
Me?
frank finch
vivid vessel
I played the NDA version bozo
glass mortar
the one thats going on right now
vivid vessel
Ah
vivid vessel
Well it didn't change enough for me from test 1 to test 2
glass mortar
i know two of the people doin it
late swallow
fellowship looks really bad ngl
glass mortar
really? everyone ive talked to who played it sounded super hopeful
vivid vessel
It is but idk
glass mortar
its just a bunch of wow players who loved m+ trying to make a game that improves on m+ with combat as snappy as wows
glass mortar
the stuff we got so far has been very early release tho
vivid vessel
Dungeons are cool tho
late swallow
wow legit made the best combat feel
glass mortar
apparently the gamer apm spec is a tank that my friend mains zac
she said its like 100+ apm
glass mortar
ye the monk lady
vivid vessel
It's not even close to being enough
But it's alright
It's what I eneded up playing
Cause everything else was boring
Also it's only high APM cause you press 2 on GCD spells into one off GCD
Everytime
And defs are off GCD
Which you also spam
It's not high APM like outlaw is
Rotation is very scripted
Feels more like a league rotatit
Than wow
You know what I mean
The concept for the champ is very cool tho
Nothing like it in wow
latent oak
it got a bit scripted after a while
latent oak
also had 0 procs right
latent oak
i cant remember either
vivid vessel
I think it's something like you had a chance to not consume the finisher buff
Or smth
latent oak
have they announced another beta?
vivid vessel
2 months
latent oak
3
vivid vessel
latent oak
:^)
cool game, but i never got to the jdotb point where they were perma grinding a single dungeon for upgrade mats
didnt look so fun
glass mortar
theres a heavy nda one rn for invite only people
sounds like alot of people that were pushing top of the leaderboards from what ive heard but she couldnt share much info cause nda obv
just that she was in it
midnight granite
It's early access later this year
The rotations in that game are not complex, which isn't a bad thing, but nothing like outlaw really
They have new chars in the test right now
That game will be fun and has a better system than wow does for dungeons
vivid vessel
cool game, but i never got to the jdotb point where they were perma grinding a s...
I did
But I did it with a blaster group
And it took like 2 night to be full geared
Then you could push keys
Which I didn't really end up having time to do that high
glass mortar
theres a lot of places it could go yea, and what we saw sounded very very early playtest shit
im excited cause its a bit depressing that wow m+ is in the state it is (lets be real a ton of people complain about it) but realistically there is no competition on the market rn if u like that content
latent oak
100%
glass mortar
nobody does combat or scaling difficulty dungeons like wow
late swallow
wow is the greatest game ever made, and it's not even close
glass mortar
the fact that their primary design and purpose is a gearing method for raid is just a sad bit of it
late swallow
red zinc
wow is the greatest game ever made, and it's not even close
wrong thats super mario bros 2
cinder relic
Housing will be the best feature wow has ever gotten
red zinc
Housing will be the best feature wow has ever gotten
Only if I can live in zacs basement like parasite
late swallow
this one mgiht be treading the line
sick callout
latent oak
cringe self deletion!!!
late swallow
nah I didn't self delete
vapid sundial
Like i said
late swallow
latent oak
has somnius got any official warnings yet
late swallow
has somnius got any official warnings yet
yeah I've gotten muted and warned a few times
gaunt phoenix
and he likes it
late swallow
part of the hustle
latent oak
i got 1 official warning for something a bit edgy after the trill stuff
latent oak
im now #workingonmyself
wintry solar
Lame
latent oak
still annoyed that solo deleted my gif of the orangutan pissing in its own mouth
that went hard
gaunt phoenix
late swallow
yeah that gif goes crazy
wintry solar
Lift weights, parse grays. That's my motto
late swallow
i remember someone posted the roblox guy with a huge uncircumsized cock
that shit went absolutely bananas
keen belfry
my only warning was a political joke relating to outlaw
glass mortar
yea but have u guys been hardbanned from here before
if not then get on my level
💅
wintry solar
my only warning was a political joke relating to outlaw
The moga era?
vivid vessel
Housing will be the best feature wow has ever gotten
M+
lime lake
housing
daring oxide
Only if I can live in zacs basement like parasite
zac's house will be the new Outlaw Order Hall
keen belfry
i think housing is going to be so sick
daring oxide
where all the outlaw mains will hangout, fellow pirates drinking rum
keen belfry
i just hope main cities arent ghost towns
daring oxide
i just hope main cities arent ghost towns
neighbourhoods gonna be the new towns
glass mortar
ok we cant pretend tmog wasnt the goated addition of wow tho
vivid vessel
If we can't do an outlaw neighbourhood
keen belfry
im gonna egg so many homes
vivid vessel
It's dead on areival
glass mortar
before u literally just got stuck with whatever drivel blizz handed you
mog is at least a 40-50% dps increase
lime lake
real
wintry solar
Real
vivid vessel
Wish it wasn't so restricted :)
glass mortar
oh for sure
glass mortar
not perfect, i'd love to see dyes and more sensible loosening of weapon restrictions
vivid vessel
Your dagger tho?
wintry solar
So many sick off hands I can't use
vivid vessel
Nono
glass mortar
still infinity better then not having it tho
lime lake
remember when you actually had to have the item in your inventory to transmog it
glass mortar
ur character looking how u want is so important in an rpg idk
lime lake
glass mortar
cuh
rustic lotus
You know who’s going to nuts in WoW housing? Dem moonguardians
wintry solar
And by proxy, my gold
vivid vessel
No !
vapid sundial
???
inner meadow
As friends
nocturne folio
mog is at least a 40-50% dps increase
tru
vivid vessel
I need to fill my taxes also I think
glass mortar
i mean im excited for housing. usually i wouldnt be but everyone who has gotten sneak peaks at it has been glazing it so
runescape houses were fun
wintry solar
A real outlaw doesn't pay taxes
rustic lotus
Siren isle no?
nocturne folio
How do I get these swords
childrens week meme event
rustic lotus
Oh shit children’s week huh
vivid vessel
Feels great
wintry solar
Ikr
vapid sundial
A real outlaw doesn't pay taxes
Real outlaws pay taxes bc they know thats how they get you otherwise
lime lake
there is a similar model from siren isle
wintry solar
No greater law to be out of than paying your taxes
obsidian walrus
why is Nightfall Curseblade's Cudgel so good for outlaw ?
obsidian walrus
ohhhhhh
gaunt phoenix
but it only works on trash
not bosses
So you literally swap weapons before bosses with a macro
obsidian walrus
so i only use it on m+
gaunt phoenix
yer
obsidian walrus
you cant swap weps in m+ right ?
gaunt phoenix
you can
obsidian walrus
can somoene send me the macro pls
gaunt phoenix
/equipslot 17 Nightfall Curseblade's Cudgel
/equipslot 17 Capo's Molten Knuckles```you cant swap a wep for gally thumb?
gaunt phoenix
yea they flagged gally thumb to be unswappable
obsidian walrus
ohhh
F
but i can use it in main hand ?
and molten in off or its not worth
?
gaunt phoenix
yeah if it is mythic
obsidian walrus
yea i only have HC
obsidian walrus
kk ty
buoyant totem
Apologies.
gaunt phoenix
for what !
proven ocean
for what !
mighty pivot
accepted
proven ocean
@gaunt phoenix solsosloslsosloslsolsosloslsolsosloslsosl
i got
marshmellow coffee beans
gonna use 'em tmrw mroning !
glass mortar
like the beans are flavored like marshmellow? artificially?
i always find those flavored bean brands to be pretty bad so if its good lmk
always getting let down
gaunt phoenix
marshmellow coffee beans
nice
covert kestrel
like the beans are flavored like marshmellow? artificially?
glass mortar
yea thats my experience but hey
maybe they are good
still lookin for good flavored beans to this day ok
keen belfry
i still dont know how to do pvp boss if you get selected everytime
do you try and not refresh adr
glass mortar
if timings suck they suck and u suck. just make sure ur doing ur full rotation when u go down
if adr is up vanish and crackshot them etc
keep the cdr churning as much as u can
i dont bother trying to win or anything
keen belfry
yeah i play like normal usually
glass mortar
if u win u win.
what is funny is how absolutely hard kspree chunks players without pvp mods up
i'll be losing to the enemy dps with them at like 50% hp and then i cast 1 kspree and kill them
while they cant do damage to me
glass mortar
needs god yes. deathbringer has been and will be very silly as long as it continues to exist like this
lime lake
they did
valid kindle
the few frost players around play that tree currently
seen them do decent in m+ tbf
valid kindle
and they slap on st in raid
lime lake
theres one gigachad in top 100 using rider though
gaunt phoenix
keen belfry
i reran the variance chart at 2 min
is this kir 1fth
glass mortar
id assume the top parses would be way up there like marks
glass mortar
ye i guess high variance + low play rate means even their top performers arent hitting that ballpark
gaunt phoenix
idk highroll variance is fun
glass mortar
meanwhile marks hunters
gaunt phoenix
right
lime lake
lnl procs go hard
glass mortar
whats funny is its like
50% of their variance is procs
and 50% is just crit rng
because they do sooooo much more damage on crits
but dont have any big crit amplifiers so its all from rating and a little bit from trueshot
damn outlaws highest highroll on sprocket is kinda sad compared to other specs
only warlock under us
gaunt phoenix
if we had the NOGGEN
glass mortar
never forget what they took from u
lime lake
rip pirate son
glass mortar
if we had the noggen we might sim within 50k dps of evokers and marks hunters
instead of like 300k behind
lime lake
outlaw pet spec was bis
glass mortar
it made sense that the funny pirate trinket was bis for us damnit
gaunt phoenix
Devoker rewrote their apl and invented like 300k dps
glass mortar
ya it do b like that
well i think it was probably a trickster case unless u meant recently
flameshaper was badly designed and undertuned so not as much apl work into it, was probably not as far behind as it looked initially
gaunt phoenix
trickster ?!
glass mortar
then it got gigabuffed and they hardcooked it and it went godmode
i mean we didnt cook trickster as much as we coulda s1 right?
gaunt phoenix
guy what is this
valid kindle
comparing sims between specs is always fucky, my havoc sims more than my sv st at similar ilvl, no way in hell it matches the sv even with poor rng
gaunt phoenix
some pull did double the mean
gaunt phoenix
at 2 min
glass mortar
it is impressive tho how small the variance from low roll to median is
and how high it is to the peak
gaunt phoenix
1 minute
glass mortar
i wonder about that max iteration. it must have literally just chained a reapers the entire pull
valid kindle
it's funny that the blood guide mentions multiple time how san layn has high variance in aoe
nowhere do they mention db has absurd varience st
a bit of a bias there mayhaps
gaunt phoenix
a guide talking about variance
holy based real and true
valid kindle
I think blood DB is slightly less ridiculous than frost's but it's close
cinder relic
This is where all the variance comes from
obtuse hollow
The guide isn't wrong blood db is much more consistent
cinder relic
If u just win the casino u just chain these and u win
Normally reapers mark is a 45 sec cd with a 12 sec uptime
Or, it can be up all the time, and you win
valid kindle
The guide isn't wrong blood db is much more consistent
it's basically tied for second least consistent spec in the game
*st
only looks good when compared to frost
glass mortar
the reapers mark doesnt scale that hard into aoe which is probably why the guide is like that
obtuse hollow
Normally reapers mark is a 45 sec cd with a 12 sec uptime
It usually explodes much sooner
gaunt phoenix
oops i didnt put tanks in my list
valid kindle
yeah aoe sl does have more rng
cinder relic
It usually explodes much sooner
True
valid kindle
but st it's reversed
cinder relic
What I was syaing before I got sidetracked by DK, I love that people use sprocket as the benchmark fight this tier meanwhile the fight is a "high movement fight" which fucks over certain casters more than other, and also, this entire raid isn't even pure ST, so being good at "pure ST" kinda doesnt matter
obtuse hollow
reapers is mostly st rng
Mark is big aoe
cinder relic
Rogues greatest strength atm, broadly speaking is "Dealing a lot of ST damage while being in cleave raid build"
obtuse hollow
Getting a couple procs will carry your whole no breath pull
cinder relic
Most classes have to trade a lot more than rogue does to deal "good raid cleave"
late swallow
the sub cleave in full ST is so good
glass mortar
i was mostly musing about how much lower we are at max rank on sprocket
our highroll on that fight does not appear very high
we are fine on average
cinder relic
Like Hunter ST is obviously absurd, but Hunter "Cleave build" does absolute dogshit ST
Meanwhile rogues st build and aoe build is like, 1% for each spec
Ofc sin has the full dungeon build but
glass mortar
i mean even law is giving up 10-14% ST on average in m+ builds now
thanks to the advent of PC
obtuse hollow
Outlaw and assassin have great sustained aoe, it's funny watching the physical teams play as someone who push with the meta comp
They just do small pulls continuously and time 20s
cinder relic
Well M+ is a bit different, mostly talking in a raid context
glass mortar
sure taking PC is raid feels way more paddy then effective
not sure its "better" for prog damage of any boss still to this day
next wedge
95%+ parses feel driven by rng quite a bit
obtuse hollow
It's really unfortunate gs and pc are competing, one of the most painful decisions
glass mortar
mhm
next wedge
It's really unfortunate gs and pc are competing, one of the most painful decisio...
im happy to be rid of gs
glass mortar
it is kinda nice that quite a few dungeons have at least 1 boss if not more that PC gets big value on tho
helps make up for some of that ST loss
frail veldt
fuck gs
glass mortar
well GS sucks design wise but strength wise im always sad to lose it
frail veldt
fuck gs
glass mortar
yea I mean wouldnt surprise me if PC needed no buffs
gaunt phoenix
I like gs but also like not using it
late swallow
me and my homies hate ghostly strike
glass mortar
for years PC just hasnt really worked in dungeons because of this corpses bug
calculating off dead targets 
glass mortar
wouldnt surprise me if u went a majority of a dungeon with PC doing almost nothing prior to the fix
obtuse hollow
Do u hate gs or mark of death more
frail veldt
I didnt hate mfd
glass mortar
yea idd, id love to see it redesigned because its ogcd, and it generates CP, and those are the most fun aspects of it
frail veldt
mfd was good