outlaw

[hybrid crown]

Double on use = outlaw DPS cds

I do vexie magnet

It's nice having just a little something I can use when I want to see a bit more DPS in my burst whenever I want

[keen belfry]

i have hoctuah and pacemaker

i think pacemaker is so bad

[cloud abyss]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[glass mortar]

i think if i tracked pacemaker id probably find its worse then it sims

just because of timings and pull cadence variation

if ur perma chaining its probably alright tho

fuk with how much crit i have i should have replaced this already. ive been sitting on this dinar forever

i should trade up to something ig

[keen belfry]

i should just go pug stix mythic and get one with next dinar

[glass mortar]

i dont think magnet is a number puller

it doesnt sim particularly well in dslice or aoe in general

its just fun to use and flexible prio damage which i like

[keen belfry]

its a vibes trinket for me

[glass mortar]

also u can do the cute sniping tech

[keen belfry]

i just hate pacemaker

[glass mortar]

i mean all trinkets r vibes this season lets be honest

the gaps betweenthis shit is so small

[keen belfry]

pissmaker is not

[glass mortar]

find what u like and play it

they all r brother

the bis trinkets in the game sim like 0.1% ahead of 4 other trinket combos

[red zinc]

How can you hate a passive stat trinket

[keen belfry]

i meant pissmaker is not a vibes trinket

[red zinc]

Dislike i get

[keen belfry]

i know its close i just dislike

[red zinc]

but that shit doesnt do anything

[keen belfry]

i wish i grabbed the mythic cart

[glass mortar]

its on a 1m hardlocked timer so it will always proc when it procs unavoidably and if it procs near the end of a pack it can be completely wasted

[keen belfry]

cuz thats a vibes trinket

[glass mortar]

which sorta can happen to any proc stat trinket but, we dont play any of those so

indeed if it procs at the end of a pack its even worse then missing a use since actively hitting stuff during it will guarentee 50% uptime due to the extension and ur missing out on the initial proc and extension

i'll do some keys this weekend and peep my buff uptime on it maybe to see if its actually suffering or its all in my head

[red zinc]

I think cart + magnet is goated

But idk

[glass mortar]

i might swap cart for pacemaker yea

basically sims identical everywhere but 1 target

and i dont ever need to worry about this timing nonsense

[red zinc]

bike is just ass

[glass mortar]

bike is better numerically but lacks the flexibility or fun factor so

[red zinc]

Doing nothing on last bosses of dungeon

[glass mortar]

u can pry my magnet from my cold dead hands

[red zinc]

is not good

[glass mortar]

one boss in the entire season

but sure maybe dont wear it there at least

[red zinc]

Last boss workshop also

[glass mortar]

only in p2 right

[red zinc]

yeah

[glass mortar]

yea kinda funny

idk how they make a projectile fail this hard

it should also just explode when it hits an "edge" of a map

like a cliff face

[red zinc]

plus it just gets boned on a lot of bosses with fodder adds too

Idk not a fan

[glass mortar]

well thats every meteoring trinket

ur minecart is also getting fucked on bosses with fodder

even if u see it run into the boss

[random stirrup]

I still have yet to choose my trinket from vault this week

because they all have their own issues

[glass mortar]

its losing like 80% of its total boss damage to those adds when it splashes

[random stirrup]

im honestly leaning remnant

[white marten]

Honey buzzer

[glass mortar]

remember uncapped honey buzzer

never forget what they took from u

[random stirrup]

do I really want another forced movement ability though

is killing spree not enough

[white marten]

I miss uncapped honey buzzer

[compact smelt]

is KS higher prio than vanish if AR is not going to fall off?

[glass mortar]

yes

[inner stump]

whats the issue with gear grinder?

[compact smelt]

tyvm :D

[inner stump]

on use?

[random stirrup]

it misses certain bosses

[glass mortar]

misses gally

misses rookery last boss

[inner stump]

ah

[glass mortar]

misses last phase of workshop boss

[inner stump]

didn't know that

lol trinkets this season fucking suck huh

[glass mortar]

dont think these r such serious issues as to avoid it entirely, maybe just in those dungeons

but i much prefer magnet

[red zinc]

Just doesnt hit mobs sometimes also

idk

[fallen knot]

yea ok ks is cancer

[inner stump]

honey buzzer is annoying af to use

[red zinc]

Itll explode in the middle of the pack and not do shit

I checked logs a bit ago

[fallen knot]

i died back to back in motherlode after 2nd boss at the mindstorm packs

cause of last second bug

[random stirrup]

its on my alt so I specifically wanted something playable everywhere

[glass mortar]

ya makes sense

[random stirrup]

took remnant

[glass mortar]

magnet never lets u down

oh rip

[random stirrup]

will buy magnet soon

[white marten]

Wax whistle is bae

[gilded hearth]

Yo anyone got a good tricks macro?

[glass mortar]

yea i will probably end up playing whistle magnet

whistle just seems like pacemaker without any potential timing issues

[long barn]

It’s trash

[glass mortar]

will need to recheck my sims but last i simmed it was identical to pacemaker on 8t and better at any low target count

[white marten]

Magnet?

[glass mortar]

whistle

[white marten]

Oh

[long barn]

Wax one

[white marten]

Yeah its dope

I run dat shiet

[long barn]

I have mythic one and it’s good

[white marten]

My trinks are hero 🥲

[light dune]

is there any feel craft merit to not rolling if you have 6 buffs, 4 of them are above container, and 2 of them are not? I find usually this happens after the first reroll from getting a natty 5 buff that's kir'd. This falls under the rule of reroll if you'll lose 0-2 buffs right? But idk sometimes it feels so bad to have everything then lose broadside / RP / TB

[gaunt phoenix]

it's fine

to not roll

[light dune]

ok, this would only apply w/ having 6 buffs right? Like if you're missing a buff entirely and you're losing 0-2 buffs on next reroll chances are you would gain or go even on overall buff duration?

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah 6 where you cant gain a buff by rolling

[white marten]

When will blizzard rework our useless mastery?

Actually nvm i like stacking vers

[next wedge]

i have remnant and pacemaker mythic

so

i just use that bc i dont want to press a trinket button

[chilly atlas]

remember in dragonflight when they said classes stacking vers was a problem, so they put haste breakpoints on AR, inspired game design

[covert kestrel]

bring back 0% mastery and haste

[glass mortar]

yes it doesnt make sense with their stated design goal

outlaw as it stands

but w/e

they fixed WW so thats 1 vers stacker down

who is left, sub, fire mage, outlaw

any other dps versa stackers

[keen belfry]

arcane likes vers

but fire is haste stacker

they like haste>>>> vers/mast

arcane likes every stat

[next wedge]

i want mastery rework

idk what it would be

better odds for rtb?

[glass mortar]

ok so i need to be clear

[keen belfry]

i think crit should be related to ss proc chance

[glass mortar]

theres a difference between "every stat is goop" (arcane) and liking vers

i dont think id say arcane likes vers

they just want an even spread really

[covert kestrel]

are we at the point of the yap calendar where we throw out the most cooked mastery rework ideas

[runic bough]

Yes

Everyday is a cooked day in outlaw

[keen belfry]

i think a high proccing SS would be very fun

[next wedge]

mastery rework = %dr in KS

w

[covert kestrel]

only for you big guy

[hybrid crown]

Mastery increases the damage of your guns and explodey things in general

[runic bough]

You know this spec has the biggest wish list

We are always cooked

Don't say we are not

[next wedge]

outlaw players are the least happy players

[keen belfry]

i actively think i hate this spec but it has a chokehold on me

[glass mortar]

its the worst spec in the game

[keen belfry]

atleast currently

[runic bough]

Its the same for all of us

[glass mortar]

except all the rest

[runic bough]

We enjoy the high apm regardless how cooked it is. We are like Darth Vader. Trapped in a painful suit just using the force to survive and commit atrocities in azeroth!

[next wedge]

i think i kinda ruined it for myself by starting on outlaw bc now every other class and spec just feels like it's at a snail pace

[runic bough]

Yes also another problem when we try to reroll

[next wedge]

i hate watching a destro player press 3 buttons and then do 20m dps

and im sweating to get 12m

[runic bough]

I have a warlock in my guild who is better at single target than aoe is that odd??

[winged cypress]

Sweating is the best part

[runic bough]

For real we prayge for procs and hope to do normal aoe dmg.

[next wedge]

i feel like every time i play im actively giving myself carpal tunnel

i rereoll to bm

[runic bough]

The correct term is now Carpool Tunnelle

[frail veldt]

whats weird is it def explodes on those

but it doesnt do damage?

its very confusing

[red zinc]

it explodes and doesnt do damage a lot of the time

even on normal packs sometimes

terrain bs

[fading hatch]

This is so real. Sometimes when i play my mage it feels like im lagging its so slow

[frail veldt]

yeah its kinda concering

concerning*

too bad magnet requires me to do raid

[runic bough]

I have an announcement

Nevermind

[daring oxide]

Says the guy who defected to sin

[red zinc]

so fake

[daring oxide]

Ryu going to announce he finally did damage

With 19.69 haste

[chilly atlas]

nice

[sullen walrus]

some good macros for outlaw? pleeease

[glass mortar]

what macro are u looking for

theres no macros required for outlaw

[sullen walrus]

ss ambush

[glass mortar]

!ambush

[ornate heath]

It is possible to use a macro to cast Ambush during Stealth/Audacity and Sinister Strike otherwise, instead of using the stealth bar:
/cast [known: Hidden Opportunity, bonusbar:1] Ambush ; Sinister Strike
*This is most useful to swap between HO and KIR builds without changing keybinds.
Stance swap delay is, for now, not an issue since we don't want to cast vanish into ambush anymore.

[runic bough]

Yeah that ambush macro is worth 1mil overall

Don't ask how I know that

https://tenor.com/view/he-man-fabulous-look-around-sus-suspicions-gif-22447303

[glass mortar]

the macro literally only does anything if u have 1 set of bars only

or r the biggest pepega and forgot to put ambush on ur stealth bar somehow

[runic bough]

Yes well some people didn't have it on their stealth bars

[glass mortar]

ohno

[runic bough]

https://tenor.com/view/he-man-fabulous-look-around-sus-suspicions-gif-22447303

This is so funny lol

[sweet badge]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[quiet root]

i once played a day's worth of KIR before realizing i'd forgotten to replace ambush with ss in stealth 🙂

[glass mortar]

[runic bough]

[glass mortar]

ok nvm yall need the macro

put it everywhere

[runic bough]

Bro the mods denied a macro section

[quiet root]

i looked at my details and was like wait a minute

[fathom bramble]

do you guys play with sound off or something?

[runic bough]

I even made the macro section for them they still didn't use it

[fathom bramble]

I feel like the difference between SS and ambush is almost immediately noticeable

[glass mortar]

yeaaa

i mean a surprising amount of people do play with sound off

i couldnt imagine tbh

[runic bough]

Yeah but not if ur playing all specs and learning mechanics

[fathom bramble]

not to mention different animations and maybe just getting the wrong amount of CP

[runic bough]

I noticed after learning mechanics and that's when Zac pointed out what it was

[quiet root]

i do have my game sounds extremely low

[fathom bramble]

fun fact: in legion you could tell if it was a double hit from SS before it actually gave combo points or was visible in the ui thanks to the different sound it made.

this was before they changed it to give the CP for a 2nd hit and the opp proc instantly

[glass mortar]

lok have u dont much vision pushing or any at all this week

its kinda hilarious how troll the first section of orgrimmar is as outlaw

[vivid vessel]

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxszXGTMUhqQuOhmgHS1zYbaCvUAL4Xvsf?si=6vf7ja0NSMV1bdfV @fathom bramble

finally happened

[glass mortar]

the haste buff legit gives u a 0.4s gcd

its not playable

[vivid vessel]

wasnt topped gg

[fathom bramble]

yeah it's very funny

[glass mortar]

im getting procs like 0.1s before my gcd fires

[fathom bramble]

you use to be able to get a 0.4s GCD in an actual real raid fight lol

it was functionally unplayable

[fathom bramble]

gg

[glass mortar]

oh was that a bugged kspree tele

yea it was

[fathom bramble]

you use to be able to get to a 0.6 gcd baseline with a specific tierset for a short amount of time, and the fight in question had a speed increase like visions

so the spec just stopped working

hated that fight

[glass mortar]

yea its funny like we just cant even get the benifit of this buff

but when u have the negative haste side of it

its so bad

thrall fight with 6 masks was brutal

(i missed picking up 2 masks last week because i dont read wowhead)

[fathom bramble]

I died to thrall on 1 mask while carrying someone

thrall always felt harder than alleria

back when visions first dropped

[glass mortar]

his mechanics just fuckover law more rn i think

silence + the zone mechanics of the haste amp/damp

alleria is mostly just tunnel and dodge shit

[fathom bramble]

absorb shield that we can't actually break in time

[glass mortar]

yea

[fathom bramble]

absorb shield was the same back then too

since we have never really had burst like that

I remember just saving cloak for it

[glass mortar]

if u need to u can cloak one, save trinket (magnet) for another and try to finish before the third

thankfully that hit does not do much sanity even with all masks on

as long as ur not letting other shit get u its fine

[runic bough]

Guys I created an opener for raid

Last night

[glass mortar]

could u imagine if he had the void torrent ability from the shield boss instead

that thing is so toxic

[runic bough]

Raid opener

Blade flurry into stealth and tricks tank.

On 2-3 second of pull cast rtb.

After boss take damage, cast dmg pot and adr.

Begin rotation.

What you guys think?

[glass mortar]

basically the same but slightly worse then the openers in the FaQ

not like outlaw openers really matter

[runic bough]

Aw damnit

[glass mortar]

but u want to RtB 40s before the pull so u have 2 supercharger saved then RtB after the boss is pulled so u go up to 4

ur way u only have 2

[runic bough]

Also

Ambush doesn't proc cto

[glass mortar]

yes it does

[white marten]

I got gkicked when i asked my raid lead for a 45s pull timer

[runic bough]

Nah cuz I hardly get blue buffs during stealth

[glass mortar]

u just got unlucky

[runic bough]

But ss proc cto a lot

Its prob bugged for ambush

Add it to the bug list

[glass mortar]

it most certainly is not bugged lol unless u have some serious data, i had a natty 6 buff with 5 CtO buffs from a single crackshot yesterday in my vision

literally all from ambush

[runic bough]

Well ss is the only one that gives me cto buffs usually

[glass mortar]

SS has a higher chance to proc CtO because it has a higher chance to proc multiple attacks (ambush has 80% of the chance SS has) and every hit of the abilities can proc CtO

[runic bough]

https://tenor.com/view/wyaking-gif-9712475764034023502

Well anyways I can't just start blasting without RP

Dmg meter says goodbye without RP

https://tenor.com/view/dumb-and-dumber-dumbanddumber-gif-9498707

How high can u guys peak on single target?

My highest is 3mil

Meanwhile other classes doing 7mil

Saw the arcane mage last night

Doing 7 mil in bosses in a key

[azure stirrup]

Are you reviewing logs or feelcrafting?

[daring oxide]

eh what killed you here?

@proven ocean brother

[runic bough]

@proven ocean is cooked

[daring oxide]

its sometimes bugged for me, can confirm cto doesn't work 50/50 pulls

[fathom bramble]

final teleport of KS put him in an orb and the KS stagger bug comes into play killing him

[daring oxide]

ah

[harsh forge]

i just only KS the adds on that boss 😵‍💫

[fathom bramble]

happens all the time on that boss, but usually you have enough hp to live

[daring oxide]

I make sure to KS behind the orb

[runic bough]

Now we have proof ks is stagger bugged

Gj zac

[fathom bramble]

we have had proof for a very long time

to be fair

it's also immediately evident if you do a lot of keys

[runic bough]

Video evidence

[fathom bramble]

yes

[glass mortar]

to be clear, zac positioned correctly the orb did not hit him after his kspree ended

it hit him during the bugged last teleport and killed him regardless

[runic bough]

We can take them to court now

[daring oxide]

i see

[glass mortar]

could happen no matter where u kspree from

[daring oxide]

all of this could be avoided

if they just

woxtoxic fix killing spree

by removing one line of code ye

simple

hotfix

[runic bough]

https://tenor.com/view/jail-righttojail-gif-18077933

[daring oxide]

gogoog

[fathom bramble]

true

[vivid vessel]

are you guys

going to ask

this

everytime

[glass mortar]

we already told him

[white marten]

No

[vivid vessel]

or what

[glass mortar]

dw

[vivid vessel]

this is crazy man

[daring oxide]

i know now

[white marten]

Yes

Literally everytime

[daring oxide]

KS fix announcement coming in the next few days

for 11.1.9 announcement

50/50 chance

[white marten]

11.1.7*

[daring oxide]

11.1.8?

[fathom bramble]

11.2

[runic bough]

If only guy included some gifs of ks in his article

[glass mortar]

wuldnt have died if u had CD there

[white marten]

actually, 11.2

[glass mortar]

guess keys r too high for u to use that in now tho

[daring oxide]

11.2 is the final deadline @fathom bramble

[white marten]

99%

[daring oxide]

zeross has been a bit quiet recently

since zac started gapping him as outlaw vs sin

[white marten]

unlike him

[inner meadow]

@vivid vessel why house of cards on outlaw now

haven't played in a bit

[daring oxide]

its insane, makes main gauche go poppy

maximum dps

[proven ocean]

?

[glass mortar]

because its nearly identical to priory trinket but zac didnt need to buy it

[daring oxide]

yo ❤️

[runic bough]

Zeross is here guys

[glass mortar]

and it has a shorter cd so probably fits pulls better

its only usable for kir tho

[inner meadow]

i was mostly thinking about the fact that u want a mastery trinket :D

[next wedge]

is main gauche really a big dmg up

[glass mortar]

all trinkets suck

no

[fathom bramble]

it's more that there are no good trinkets not that the mastery from house of cards is even any good

[glass mortar]

HoC is overbudgeted and in aoe mastery is not 50% of a real stat for kir because of deft

its still not good

[fathom bramble]

if there was something like a static vers stat stick basic trinket you would instantly take that over house of cards

[white marten]

Sparekeys doesnt suck 😌

[glass mortar]

but trinkets suck and everything is close so

yea sparekeys probably like 0.3% sim dps over a HoC

even for HO

they all suck brother

[white marten]

😂🤣

[glass mortar]

everything suks

[sharp hinge]

KS sucks

[daring oxide]

isnt vexie pretty good?

[white marten]

Magnet ftw

[fathom bramble]

HoC is actually slightly below budget until fully stacked at which time it becomes on budget

[glass mortar]

only if ur using good to mean order of trinkets value

[fathom bramble]

other stat trinkets this tier are just below budget for some reason

which might indicate a shift in what the budget really is on blizzards end I suppose

[glass mortar]

yea i was gunna say

what are u using to determine stat budget if all the trinkets are "undertuned" budget wise

its sorta just a relative to each season thing

[fathom bramble]

the average amount of secondary stat granted by the effect compared to how much secondary stat a flat stat trinket has

[glass mortar]

did they think s1 trinkets were too impactful tho

[fathom bramble]

normally secondary stat trinkets are above or exactly on budget

but this tier they are all below budget except house of cards

so for example if it has 10% uptime then you expect it to have 10 times the stat of the lockenstock trinket or other base secondary stat trinkets

HoC when fully stacked end up exactly on budget following that formula

[glass mortar]

sure i know how u get a budget in general i was just wondering what metric u were using to determine this seasons or a normal baseline budget

what stat sticks do we have this season, pacemaker, whats the lockensprocket trinket

is that the crit proc one for casters

[next wedge]

remnant

[fathom bramble]

Flat Haste stat, random damage proc

[sharp hinge]

what about the goon squad trinket

[glass mortar]

raid trinket

its solid

breaks cudgel in m+ tho so not gunna be good there

[sharp hinge]

Mega Magnet is good for both i believe

[glass mortar]

magnets good everywhere ye

not bis in aoe but its all close

[runic bough]

Show meter for magnet dmg

I de'd mine

[next wedge]

in new HO build should we be dropping smth for deft in m+

[glass mortar]

no

deft bad for ho

[frail veldt]

you gotta stop doing this

[fathom bramble]

Don’t need deft when your generators actually do something

[frail veldt]

no

[next wedge]

tbh i still dont get the no abush for KiR theory

[frail veldt]

wdym

ambush doesnt proc PS

[hardy thicket]

theory

[frail veldt]

if youre KiR

so it sucks

thats it

[hardy thicket]

yeah theres no theory its just a dead GCD to press in comparison to the other available ones

[next wedge]

oh i see

[glass mortar]

cant proc PS, can only ever hit once so it cant generate more then 2(3 talented) cp, cant double hit for 2 cto proc chances

[frail veldt]

its literally this talent

[fathom bramble]

What if no fan kir/ ho is secretly good 🤔

[frail veldt]

Ambush is only a replicant of SS IF you have HO

kir doesnt have HO

so ambush is nothing but a cp generator with no proc effects

[runic bough]

Mewo is here guys everyone talk in textbook

[frail veldt]

lol

[next wedge]

i like learning the nitty gritty

[reef forge]

cauldron kill

[next wedge]

holy shit

that's really good

[runic bough]

Dmg?

[next wedge]

im just now starting to focus on adr uptime

[reef forge]

3.5m

[next wedge]

it's hard with KS i think

[frail veldt]

honestly you shouldnt think about your adr uptime

[runic bough]

My dmg sucks in raid

[frail veldt]

its more of a measuring tool than something you actively try to increase

[next wedge]

mewo what is ur m+ score this season

[frail veldt]

improving adr uptime comes from improving your builder/spender rules, UB blade tracking/coup spending, CD usage etc

[daring oxide]

VANISH IS SO ANNOYING IN VISIONS

RESETING BOSS FIGHTS OMG

[next wedge]

yea i hate that

[runic bough]

YESS

REPORT IT

[frail veldt]

I'm still low close to 3.4 last time I checked

[next wedge]

it's working as intended i think

[frail veldt]

sadly I only get to play like an hour a night at most

[next wedge]

better than me im at 3.25

[runic bough]

Ask blizzard why we have vanish as part of rotation

I'm dying to know

[frail veldt]

lack of thoughtful design?

[sharp sand]

People be unaware

[runic bough]

No mewo

[frail veldt]

LOL yep

[daring oxide]

fry is ugabuga

[frail veldt]

literally were just talking about this earlier

[sharp sand]

Yup I saw it

And someone in raid was saying it to me Tuesday

[fathom bramble]

Wish bf remembered skill, damage type, and crit status

[sharp sand]

I was like srs bro

[frail veldt]

outlaw damage breakdown is like bait for 3heads to be like "BF BIG NUMBER SPEC EZ"

[frail veldt]

SAAAAME

And I dont think theres a way for details to compensate for it either

[next wedge]

ppl dont get that we have to do the rotation the whole time

[mighty pivot]

why aren't outlaws just casting bf and nothing else? are they stupid?

[next wedge]

i was talking to one of my guildies and he's like top 10 fury warriors

[frail veldt]

I find it easiest to just tell them that bladeflurry doesnt do damage

[fathom bramble]

I’m sure it is possible with custom scripts but I doubt it’s reasonable

Probably would also be very computationally expensive

[frail veldt]

even then, its not like the combat log tells you the source of the damage that flurried

youd have to reverse guess the source

[fathom bramble]

Yeah

You would

[frail veldt]

and to do that youd have to know things like what buffs/debuffs the mobs have

so something like GS doenst break the calculation

[next wedge]

WW only

[frail veldt]

no wayyyyyyyyyyy

[fathom bramble]

you would have to skip the precision on debuffs/buffs

[frail veldt]

that cant be real

youd still have to press cooldowns and stuff

[fathom bramble]

somethat that is just on your main target wouldn't matter too much

[runic bough]

Blizzard is known for cheating out on their details systems so it was nice they allowed add-ons in WoW to fix their laziness.

[frail veldt]

wat

[next wedge]

im not sure what he included or not

[glass mortar]

i feel like it might be harder then we think just because not a single one of these types of damage effects work this way

but its possible blizz is just lazy

[frail veldt]

blizzard never had a details

[runic bough]

Exactly

[sharp sand]

Bros

[runic bough]

[frail veldt]

wdym exactly lol

[sharp sand]

Shadow quake is legit huh from that cudgel

[frail veldt]

you cant "cheat out" on something that doenst exist

[fathom bramble]

yeah I'm sure there's a very real reason blizzard has it this way

[frail veldt]

I dont think its intentional

[runic bough]

Because they fail to include a stat breakdown in all their games bro

[fathom bramble]

fixing it probably required a complete rewrite of Blade flurry and similar effects

[frail veldt]

They didnt think about the scenario of too many damage sources coming from Bladeflurry as an issue when coding it

[glass mortar]

wdym fail to include a stat breakdown in all their games

[final sluice]

double active trinket specally the magnet/car combo is pretty awesome on most dungeon - if u have bosses with enhanced damage phases, like we seem to have alot they are kinda no brainers. For pure aoe magnet is giga shit though, unless u permentanly can somehow abuse it.

[fathom bramble]

it is a 15+ year old spell

[frail veldt]

maybe its a choice...a damage meter isnt really necessary to play the game

its just a luxury

[next wedge]

i mean classic blade flurry was asscheeks compared to modern

[frail veldt]

yeah exactly

they didnt put that much thought into it

[runic bough]

Like d2 for example. We had to calculate all our stats

[fathom bramble]

then they made it hit 4 things

and then we got basically 100% uptime

[glass mortar]

what about d3 and d4

[runic bough]

Blizzard is super lazy when it comes to stat displays

[fathom bramble]

and now since wod it's been mass aoe all the time with a terrible details breakdown

[glass mortar]

d2 is a 20 year old game man (idk actual age)

[frail veldt]

yeah both D3 and D4 dont require any addons to play

[next wedge]

i doubt they ever expected BF to be a whole thing when they were coding it

[fathom bramble]

and if they keep giving us magic damage BF really needs that refactor

[frail veldt]

yeah thats a bit awk

[fathom bramble]

it's actually much more janky on sub since they stole BF

and have like 1000 sources of shadow dammage

[frail veldt]

Yeah I mean they just lose some cleave due to armor

its shitty but I dont think it actually changes much

You still just tune around the resulting output

[fathom bramble]

yeah in a way

[glass mortar]

talking about leftover mechanics in this game

armor

[fathom bramble]

it does mean sources of shadow damage are relatively weaker in aoe than they are in ST, but I don't know if there is any practical consequence of that

[glass mortar]

npc armor anyway

[next wedge]

dmg schools are weird

[fathom bramble]

for outlaw it just makes fatebound even worse in aoe than it already is

[daring oxide]

i think fatebound is perma screwed

[glass mortar]

oh because tails coin bf damage is reduced

[daring oxide]

unless they address nimble flurry

[next wedge]

is it only phys dmg that is copied by BF

[daring oxide]

I think nimble flurry should be in the class tree

not a hero tree

[frail veldt]

its also shit in pvp

it actually causes weird balance problems

[glass mortar]

yea

they did an armor squish last expac but its still very odd

[frail veldt]

cuz some specs that are low armor but designed around kiting(mages)

get fucking DEMOLISHED by ranged physical classes(hunters)

for lik eno reason

and specs like DK that rely on armor for their melee defense

get SHIT ON by bleed melee specs(feral)

you just end up with unecessary/uncontrollable strengths and weaknesses due to a super antequated system

also outlaw does piss damage into plate

on a spec thats already the lowest dps in the entire game in pvp

[fathom bramble]

another funny side pvp thing is that BF cannot be dodged/blocked/parried

so you can deal more damage to stuff like protection paladins by dpsing the guy next to them

[glass mortar]

or kill hunters thru turtle if they have no healer/are lining their healer

[frail veldt]

^

yeup

[glass mortar]

as long as a pet or something is nearby

[frail veldt]

very weird

[glass mortar]

you know kspree snapshots the dodge/parry status of the target on its first attack

i bet u could kill a hunter in turtle with a kspree if u were mid spree too

when he pressed turtle

[runic bough]

Mastery has now been replaced. Main gauchsucks is now replaced with blade rush. Mastery now gives a chance to proc blade rush.

Discuss?

Wait

Fixd

[proven ocean]

@daring oxide

[daring oxide]

?

[daring oxide]

GG

Zac gapped

[daring oxide]

which key is this

[fallen knot]

ok full physical comp is omega for outlaw

[civic void]

Thats workshop background for sure

[fossil lintel]

21 workshop

He posted on ass channel

[glass mortar]

Losing to arms wtf

[runic bough]

[glass mortar]

Gg law cooked

[white marten]

Zac died a few times

He was afk

[sharp hinge]

why do so many people play sin right now?

[glass mortar]

It's good

[white marten]

Cuz sin doesnt have KS

[runic bough]

And outlaw can't hit 80% of first pull so there's also that.

[fossil lintel]

Scroll up to the last screenshot?

[glass mortar]

arguably rogues best spec overall rn

[sharp hinge]

thats what made me ask

i thought it would only be better in higher keys

[white marten]

bleed build cranks in all keys

Hybrid too prob

[sharp hinge]

i see this as well:

https://www.wowhead.com/news/consolidated-top-4-the-war-within-season-2-dps-rankings-for-mythic-liberation-of-377071?utm_source=discord-webhook

[fossil lintel]

Yeah bleed build is easy as hell and pumps

[glass mortar]

Outlaw is better in low keys imo

Doesn't matter tho

[fathom bramble]

9 minutes into a workshop 🤔

Can Zac catch up

[covert kestrel]

tier lists are slop

[sharp hinge]

truu

arent stats different for sin and outlaw though?

[covert kestrel]

probably, i dont hate myself enought to play sin tho

[frail veldt]

yeah rather different

outlaw and sub are more similar

[fossil lintel]

Eh, sub still loves mastery

[covert kestrel]

and we love haste

[white marten]

Wonder how sub looks in keys rn after their accidental buff

[covert kestrel]

purple

[white marten]

Not pink?

[frail veldt]

The route had to be wild for a war to do 7m overall

masssive pulls

[reef forge]

they had like 10 mobs on second boss

[sharp hinge]

yeah warrior sucks rn, especially outside of raid

[frail veldt]

its hard to tell tbh

[white marten]

How come pugs never pull trash into bosses? Is coordination required for that kind of thing? Or is it just not worth the potential wipe?

[frail veldt]

I see good wars do great dps

[sharp hinge]

it feels like ass to play it, its sooo slow. like painfully slow

[frail veldt]

well the goal is to clear the key

and frankly

below like a 17

you dont need to pull onto boss

to time it

so why risk it

[white marten]

Ah fair enough

Would make my overalls look better on outlaw 😌

[frail veldt]

lol yeah def

[jolly geyser]

they do on that ToP boss

stinkface?

[white marten]

The only one lol

Yeah the chains boss

And 1st boss with bloodhorn

Pugs barely know about their interrupt buttons below 14s so yeah- not worth the risk

[next wedge]

i just have a hard time not overlapping in pugs

[frail veldt]

I just kick super early in pugs

[next wedge]

but like blind

i hate that blind is useless in parts of floodgate and workshop

[vivid vessel]

2 packs of ws

zeross always cooked

[fathom bramble]

everytime

it's just a few packs or a short part of the dungeon

smh

[glass mortar]

Oh lmfao I thought it was a whole ass key

[keen belfry]

if zeross on top its one pull

[white marten]

Two max

[fathom bramble]

look at dps vs total damage dealt

[keen belfry]

no flame ofc

[fathom bramble]

it's like 9-10 minutes of combat

[sharp hinge]

get the kick WA

think its called interupt tracker

[leaden folio]

zac

[sullen wyvern]

I got an outlaw question for my fellow outlaw enjoyers

[leaden folio]

LETS GOO

(grey parse because i do the bomb and i play like a pussy af)

[sullen wyvern]

is it worth to use a last BTE on my very last global of subterfurge window when KS is available? or should I press KS when sub is over?

Of course I vanish before KS is available, it becomes available during sub window

[stiff hawk]

Congrats!

[stiff hawk]

Doesnt Matter if the boss is deadge

[leaden folio]

thx

[weary fog]

KS once sub is over

[glass mortar]

In subterfuge you bte. Outside u kspree whenever it's available

Also you don't vanish if kspree is on a 20s or under cd unless ar will fall off if you wait

[runic bough]

Has anyone tried HO with double lethality and 1 vigor?

https://tenor.com/view/ace-ventura-pet-detective-jim-carrey-comedy-duh-gif-18232132

I'll try it tonight

Could care less about supercharger

[frail veldt]

you can just sim it

[keen belfry]

i just grappled into braunpyke soak and got 2 soaks

[glass mortar]

nice

reminds me of when i grapple thru a reverb orb and get mc'd by one orb cause it triple ticks me

🙂

[pseudo charm]

how reliable is dungeon slice for outlaw. 'm blanking

[glass mortar]

its fine

most people use it to sim for m+

[pseudo charm]

trying to choose between honeybuzzer and signet rn

cool. ty

i have for a while too, a buddy just uses something else and it snuck signet up. but i think the answer is buzzer. more annoying though

[glass mortar]

can always get a vexie trinket its the same damage as buzzer but less annoying to use

[alpine valve]

Where can I find the !-commands?

[glass mortar]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB as you enter the dungeon to get 2 Supercharger stacks.
• DO NOT RTB again inside the bubble as you will lose the supercharger stacks, similarly do not AR early inside the bubble or you will lose the combo points.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open on pack with AR into BtE.

[keen belfry]

i just did a priory where we wiped on braunpyke mini boss thing

i got 2 stealths off the whole key

that has to be bad right

[alpine valve]

@ornate heath Ty

Supercharger is 4p-bonus?

[glass mortar]

supercharger is the center talent line of ur class tree

[glass mortar]

only if the chaining is bad

[keen belfry]

we pulled shaynemail into the priestess

[alpine valve]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[daring oxide]

@gaunt phoenix

i forgot to ask this a while ago

since the deft fix, is it good to go by the old blade flurry rules for building CP

i cant remember what conclusion you came to

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah you can slam it, but prio unseen blade

[daring oxide]

ok prio unseen got ya

[gaunt phoenix]

unless in stealth

[rocky shell]

is there any reason to go any other head enchant other than echoing?

[gaunt phoenix]

yes, echoing is bugged

#outlaw message

[rocky shell]

ah ty

[worldly shale]

Magnet myth track sims like 45k more in dung slice than hc cart, even more than energy drink, seaforium
I already got myth geargrinder tho, which sims better with the other trinks
WHAT AM I TO DO
Just double on use?

[random stirrup]

Unlike most on use you can play magnet with double on use

[gaunt phoenix]

geargrinder and magnet is very common

[royal stump]

im new to outlaw why is magnet so good on outlaw

[worldly shale]

yuh i guess its easier cuz of not really traditional cd

cool ill just run that

[glass mortar]

direct damage trinkets r good on outlaw

we have alot of crit and vers

[royal stump]

ok makes sense

[frail veldt]

BtE is use on cd as trickster KiR right?

[gaunt phoenix]

ya

[frail veldt]

the fuck zac doin then

https://www.twitch.tv/zac__________________/clip/StupidEncouragingPizzaSquadGoals-yORTZnOuUI9OXMV3

oh nvm I think im trolling I just cant see when hes in subterfuge I think

[winter nacelle]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[mighty pivot]

there's a big green bar when he is in subterfuge

[frail veldt]

nvm zacs just cooked

[gaunt phoenix]

i doubt it matters like at all

[frail veldt]

same

[haughty wigeon]

he rps in goldshire

[vivid vessel]

?

it simmed better forever

it prolly still does

0.1%

[frail veldt]

that was fatebound

[vivid vessel]

you are just cooked you

you !

stop being cooked

show sim

sim or fake

[frail veldt]

the sim doesnt check for RP lol

[vivid vessel]

does the sim do 7.4 mil in priory ?

i dont think so

[frail veldt]

sim barely does 4.5m overall

sim bad

[vivid vessel]

yep

see

who cares about what the sim does

[frail veldt]

but yeah p sure we only bte with RP up cuz fatebound dispatch chaining was better for coins

[pseudo charm]

idk if anyone else finds themselves in need of valorstones like I do (i was away for turboboost) but thrall gives 15 per kill and it doesn't scale based on masks. so you can zero mask and get 15 valorstones for going straight to thrall.

On outlaw from the time I click "go" on wrathion to the time I loot, including RP, is under a minute per kill

it might honestly not be the most efficient farm i have no idea what's good I just wanted to know if it works. and it does

[worldly shale]

Or just play the game

[pseudo charm]

that's ridiculous

[proven ocean]

zac > raid bots confirmed???

more dps than dslice

???

[vivid vessel]

frfr

[worldly shale]

Zac bots

[proven ocean]

zacbots

[worldly shale]

Simc

More like

Fuck

[vivid vessel]

ye

right

[prisma yarrow]

how much % haste i need for HO build

[worldly shale]

0

Kir better

[vivid vessel]

!haste

[prisma yarrow]

how much haste i need for kir

[ornate heath]

Total stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush lowers your GCD based on it, down to 0.8s at 25% haste.

The KIR build wants 18-20% haste from rating, because its only haste buff is from Alacrity.

The HO build meets this requirement with 8-10% haste from rating because of Take 'em by Surprise, but the new HO + Supercharger build continues to like Haste just because of energy, so you will have to sim. Your sim may settle for KIR-levels of haste (~18%) or slightly lower.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use.
You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[gaunt phoenix]

somewhere between 14-18% usually

[vivid vessel]

why did you change your pfp lashga

[proven ocean]

why did you change your pfp lashga

?

[prisma yarrow]

pfp

profile picture

[proven ocean]

pfp

[prisma yarrow]

ohh why not

[proven ocean]

profile picture

Lashga — 3:14 AM
ohh why not

[prisma yarrow]

its good spec picture

[proven ocean]

cooked cuh

[prisma yarrow]

even in ST ho is behind ?

[gaunt phoenix]

nah

[worldly shale]

Dont think so

[gaunt phoenix]

HO usually slightly favored in st

[red zinc]

ho has less aura though so thats an issue

[worldly shale]

I just go kir fatebound cuz fun

Example sprocket

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel btw is HO or KIR better for bad rng

[vivid vessel]

kir

[prisma yarrow]

do i need any crit?

[vivid vessel]

ho need to naty roll

6 buffs

[proven ocean]

oh

that sucks

[vivid vessel]

kir can cover bad rng with cto kired

[gaunt phoenix]

u dont need crit

[prisma yarrow]

even in gems i go versa haste after i hit 17-18 %

am i right?

[gaunt phoenix]

nah go crit after haste looks good

[worldly shale]

Can i overflow haste btw

Fk

Never thought of that

[prisma yarrow]

kinda have bad gear for outlaw but trying to optimize it

[proven ocean]

i cant with this chat

wox's chat is crazy tonight

ngl

funny as hell

[red zinc]

you raiding or m+

?

[prisma yarrow]

M+

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel ?

look at monk dps wtf

[red zinc]

survival?

[prisma yarrow]

im in stleath maybe thats why my haste too much

[proven ocean]

i guess shaman is the same

cuz skyfury op

[red zinc]

excuse me?

[vivid vessel]

i never look at healer or tank dps

so idk

[red zinc]

send overall of that key when its done ross

[prisma yarrow]

war tank feral better that comp

i dunno whjy they play furry

[red zinc]

Because squish is otp

[worldly shale]

Whats this dungeon geoguesser time?

[vivid vessel]

because they are all otp

why are you playing sub lashge

[red zinc]

I mean nox can play arms

afaik

[proven ocean]

they are just practicing big moma

big momma*

[wooden anvil]

If I never plan to do Mythic raid should I always buy Heroic Capo's Molten Knuckles as offhand with my first dinar?

[proven ocean]

gonna close stream atm cuz

sleeping soon ish

@vivid vessel btw on the flood we just did

did u have rly bad rng on 1st pull?

cuz it was weird it took too long?

or?

[vivid vessel]

let me check

did it take long ?

its a 20

[proven ocean]

idk im wondering

cuz u did 10m dps or something

normally u do more or

[crimson thicket]

hes using the sheilun's gift bug no?

[proven ocean]

no idea

[worldly shale]

Ayyy good spread??

[crimson thicket]

40% heals, 30% crit, 20% haste full key if they spam gift on themselves

same shit they're doing in Raid and hitting 5-6m healing

[proven ocean]

wtf

[crimson thicket]

yeah lol

[proven ocean]

no way

like

[crimson thicket]

look at sweggle's twitter

[vivid vessel]

i eman

[proven ocean]

they have infinite healing now?

or what

[crimson thicket]

yea

[vivid vessel]

thats the end of the pack ross

[crimson thicket]

infinite healing and way more dam

[proven ocean]

when did that happen

[proven ocean]

ah

[vivid vessel]

outlaw cant really do much more

[crimson thicket]

chinese been doin it for a month

[vivid vessel]

i could have done a bit mroe but like

[crimson thicket]

we just learned about it couple days ago

[vivid vessel]

outlaw in big pack is like 15m max

[crimson thicket]

apparently blizzard is aware but not fixing it until 11.0.7

[proven ocean]

same with sin

i only saw 1 chinese sin doing what im doing

[vivid vessel]

my very best is that i peaked 20 mil on first pull cinder

[proven ocean]

got me surprised

that he does it too

[crimson thicket]

tf r u doin on sin

[proven ocean]

ngl

https://tenor.com/view/jose-mourinho-sweet-trouble-gif-26762341

come to dm's

[crimson thicket]

okie

[prisma yarrow]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/94a2yQsybghMFaDoKYPFMG

this sim normal with my gear ?

or i need to change gems enchants etc ?

[vivid vessel]

you have good gear

idk why you are saying you have bad outlaw gear

lol

you can catalyst the feets if you want

[prisma yarrow]

and belt

?

[vivid vessel]

but your gear is the best you will get honeslty

i mean the belt is fine

the cata belt is crit vers but its big crit

this one sims better for me

the big vers one

[prisma yarrow]

i can lower

more crit

in my gear

my gems are crit versa

[vivid vessel]

or just sim it

cause your gear is fine

[prisma yarrow]

oki

[red zinc]

you replace belt in 4 weeks or so anyway

[prisma yarrow]

whats going on again in 4 weeks

[red zinc]

700 ilvl belt

like the ring last seas

[keen belfry]

is outlaw the first ethical pad spec in the game

like we do 0 dmg to stuff like neophytes, but destroy paladin pulls

[vivid vessel]

outlaw is the most ethical spec yes

[covert kestrel]

!up

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1346745738532491296/New_Project.jpg

[cold jewel]

if its ethical, is it pad?

[vivid vessel]

we dont lose st to do aoe

so we are not padding

and we can also chose to not aoe

if needed

by just disabling bf

very ethical spec

[cold jewel]

toggle when?

[keen belfry]

i mean specifically like

i do 0 neophyte damage

but i destroy paladins

that seems giga

[red zinc]

ok but

[winter nacelle]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[red zinc]

if i wanted to be annoying

Theres a few classes that do more prio with alive fodder mobs

And bf is getting rid of that

so is it ethical?

(Someone in a key has unironically asked me to turn off bf on bosses before)

[fathom bramble]

the only correct response is that you'll only press it once

[red zinc]

I mean it was the funniest shit

Hunter said he needed mobs to stay alive as long as possible for trick shots

On first boss prioru

[cold jewel]

[red zinc]

But like his gain from trick shots is less than what bf would give me

[bronze bough]

When playing with geargrinder trink, do you just use it off CD?

[vivid vessel]

i mean

[fathom bramble]

very true

[vivid vessel]

does he know

the boss is 2 target

[fathom bramble]

unlucky to be MM I guess

[vivid vessel]

or what

thats jsut stupid

[red zinc]

I dont think he knew anything

[vivid vessel]

but i do utrn off bf a few times

for some stuffs

[winter nacelle]

is the smart roll the bones weakaura gone?

[red zinc]

if you’re asking that stuff in a 15

[vivid vessel]

when zeross need funnel

and we dont need aoe

[red zinc]

you are stupid

[red zinc]

Only time I’ve ever cancel aura’d bf was in throne

On those final packs

[runic bough]

I've never cancelled a buff

[vivid vessel]

i cancel bf on the last pack of priory with boss

[fathom bramble]

remember to click off arcane intellect every 5-8 minutes if your keying with a mage

[vivid vessel]

on the secnd rookery boss

hm

let me think

[prisma yarrow]

do i sent cursed versa on rings since we dont need mastery?

[vivid vessel]

on second boss ws we take adds now

[red zinc]

yeah but thats with assa

[vivid vessel]

i cancel here aswell

[runic bough]

As outlaw. Our buffs cancel themselves.

[vivid vessel]

i mean you would do it with plenty of specs

[fathom bramble]

cursed vers should win for most ho setups, but not for kir for keys

[vivid vessel]

hutner

[fathom bramble]

sim it regardless

[vivid vessel]

and idk what else does funnel

[cold jewel]

arcane

[runic bough]

https://tenor.com/view/ace-ventura-bye-gif-23237994

[cold jewel]

is the big one

[red zinc]

Hunter does funnel?

[vivid vessel]

no

but ye

wth 3 targets or whatever

[cold jewel]

also havoc

[vivid vessel]

hunter is some weird shit

[red zinc]

i mean i dont play with any of those classes

so we blessed

[red zinc]

wtf you pullin on 2nd boss

no way dogs is liveable

[vivid vessel]

shroud to pack 1

do dogs

then take the little pack with bnposs

[red zinc]

Okok

6dog on a 20 is crazy

but dwarf and cloak so its fine ig

[cold jewel]

do you guys run disc?

[red zinc]

and reflect probably works idk

[final grail]

KS is tilting me so hard its making me slack all the time, do you guys have some tips ? TT

[red zinc]

naw they dont