outlaw

[red zinc]

the onlything im tryna mount is my grindr date

[mighty pivot]

zac has ptsd from not finding rexxar

[glass mortar]

hwat

[vivid vessel]

bro

he was hiddne

[glass mortar]

???

[red zinc]

he dumb ash 💔

[hidden bay]

how did you not know where rexxar is?

[past falcon]

i had someone in my guild watch my screen and tell me where exactly to go

[covert kestrel]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[vivid vessel]

???

he was

hiddne !

ok

[past falcon]

justice for zac

[red zinc]

hiddne

[past falcon]

roo much space between his eyes

[vivid vessel]

timmy

[covert kestrel]

No zac tricks wa in!wa wtf blizz

[vivid vessel]

i will hide in your asshole

if you continue

[red zinc]

please

[glass mortar]

what if he wants that

[past falcon]

hnnngh

[red zinc]

?

[frank finch]

AYOOO]

[vivid vessel]

[red zinc]

nah hes gay

?

[past falcon]

who isn’t

[glass mortar]

nah hes just french

[vivid vessel]

only like 10 %

for me

idk

[glass mortar]

genetic

ye

[red zinc]

cant wait to spam elephant statues on zeross' house

[royal crag]

what is the green + zac uses please thankyou

[vivid vessel]

same !! ! !!

https://wago.io/6Xo93TUhx

[fallen knot]

zac monk keys when

[vivid vessel]

hm

[red zinc]

ill join on feral

[vivid vessel]

we can do some

[fallen knot]

i need 300gilded and rogue will become a warmachine

[vivid vessel]

in like

30 min or so

thats good ?

[fallen knot]

ye

[red zinc]

500 > 650 from 1 raid boost

magnificent

[vivid vessel]

im tanking tho

dpsing is too boring

i cannot do it

[fallen knot]

then i play ho cause kir is too difficult

[vivid vessel]

??

noob

do you have resilient 12 stovi

on reogue

[fallen knot]

sec let me check

no i neeed psf and floodgate still

[vivid vessel]

okok

not tanking 12 then

we can do my key

idk i dont really have issues tanking unless its like

first apck of flood

and first pack of cinder

but i thiknk skill issue

[blissful idol]

dh?

[fallen knot]

no he's a brew main confirmed

[hidden bay]

true test of DH is whether you can keep aggro

[glass mortar]

brm is fun af it just feels like ur fate is out of ur hands on some big pulls

i should kite more maybe tho

need to work on my all 10s as tank and healer role achievement since it came out

[covert kestrel]

I'm just waiting for the brm rework, which comes first brm or KS rework

[white marten]

So i swapped by siren isles ring for a hero ToP ring and my ADR uptime feels much better. I honestly didn’t think it would make such a big difference

Im getting ADR off CD before the buff drops much more consistently.

#feelsgood

[red zinc]

that shouldnt have any influence on uptime

but if it pseudo helps cool i guess

[white marten]

Maybe the increased haste ? Idk

[indigo bay]

Crit?

[white marten]

And that

[red zinc]

oh youre using the haste top ring

sure

thought you meant the good one

[white marten]

Its the crit / haste

Ring

Need to get Wicks golden loop

Hopefully its in the vault 😎

[coral bobcat]

are we suppose to send AR on cd even when it has time still left

ST rotation ^

also is ghostly strike being send on CD or only with a vanish/crackshot window

[keen belfry]

Yes and yes

Pressing AR on cd instead of when it’s about to fall off leads to more uptime

[vale warren]

Just use it as a generator

[white marten]

Make sure u are low CB so u dont waste them. Basic knowledge, but you never know 😎

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel @vivid vessel @vivid vessel @vivid vessel @vivid vessel @vivid vessel @vivid vessel @vivid vessel

!!!

[vivid vessel]

what

[white marten]

Is zac EU?

[keen belfry]

He’s so EU bro

[white marten]

Lame, i wanted to play with him someday. When im as big as him

[proven ocean]

idk

[grave carbon]

What other specs do you guys find fun? I want to make an alt but everything seems super boring compared to law

[torpid fiber]

rhythm games

[covert kestrel]

WW is fun but suffers from similar stuff as law

[white marten]

Bugs?

[covert kestrel]

I like alting boomie cause it's so boring and the opposite of law

[white marten]

I feel like enh shaman is very similar to outlaw, but with significantly less defensives. I had fun on it.

[latent oak]

hot hands is like a proc form of crackshot windows

[white marten]

Tempest is more fun imo but both crank

[latent oak]

ya just totemic feels more outlawy i guess

[white marten]

My biggest gripe is probably how easy it is to pull threat .

[cinder relic]

ret

fury

arms

[white marten]

Ret is a snoozefest

[latent oak]

they did knock the tempest effects out of the park tho

[cinder relic]

ret is fun

and pala has like 50 utility spells so its fun to learn and use them well

[grave carbon]

Pala propaganda

[white marten]

I think given that everyone and their moms main ret, takes away from the appeal of the spec for me

[glass mortar]

they dont need to do propaganda they are like 30% of the player population

[cinder relic]

its 30% of the population for a reason

[glass mortar]

ye

[tender harbor]

Is there a current preferred corruption enchant for m+ content?

[latent oak]

but by that same line of logic outlaw is one of the least fun classes no?

[white marten]

Aesthetics probably. Hasnt pally always been super popular?

[glass mortar]

td if u dont mind risking pulling extra, otherwise gusher

[glass mortar]

aesthetics, ease of use, satisfying rotation and fantasy

[tender harbor]

Alright that makes sense. I've been running ev and it sucks.

[glass mortar]

lots of cool buttons on that class if ur into the holy light kinda thing anyway

[dim widget]

Wat

[white marten]

Ill give you fantasy, ease of use and aesthetics

[dim widget]

Even though turbo simple ret is very fun imo

[glass mortar]

no thanks i prefer the opposite of all those

thats why i play outlaw

😏

[white marten]

The skill ceiling is pretty low, maybe thats what makes it kinda boring to me

[latent oak]

i think the skill floor is low not neccecarily the ceiling

[white marten]

Once you get the idea, you’re essentially playing peak ret 🤣

[weary fog]

The problem is, pally doesn’t have a gun

[white marten]

Bro

A holy blunderbuss

[dim widget]

It has atomic hammers

[white marten]

Would be insane

[grave carbon]

Pally dosent have crack

Cuz they cops

[dim widget]

I meant after playing outlaw for a while any other class feels like a slow wheelchair anyway

[dim widget]

It's like we got tainted

[torpid fiber]

Yeah

[sullen walrus]

some good macros for outlaw rogue?

[covert kestrel]

Make sure to make a /yell macro for whenever you press KS

Your groups will love it

[remote pike]

they should make off hand for outlaws be a handheld pistol of some sort

[weary fog]

#showtooltip Killing Spree
/Cast Killing Spree
/yell ninja goes spin 忍者旋轉 hit many times 擊中多次 die to circle
死循環 time reaches zero
時間歸零

[remote pike]

pistol, blunderbus, sawed off shotgun, rpg

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel eye of kezan kinda broken in priory lmao

super op

playing with it on voice is cracked

20 stacks entire key

XDXD

9600 agi

[stable ice]

hekili have any chance to learn some outlaw?

[proven ocean]

9520*

[stable ice]

or its garbage?

[sullen walrus]

yell macro? what's it?

[sullen walrus]

i think no, because of hekili shows a rly bad rotation

[torpid fiber]

Hekili works perfectly just don't rely on it solely or you'll struggle with adapting
But in terms of accuracy outlaw is very well supported afaik

[remote pike]

yeah i was about to say that hekili shows a pretty accurate rotation

[torpid fiber]

the rotation I'm pretty sure is correct

[sullen walrus]

hell no

[remote pike]

even takes in consideration rtb

[torpid fiber]

Generally hekili does not struggle with rotation accuracy

[sullen walrus]

for kir build it's rly bad

[remote pike]

specify

[sullen walrus]

but how u can change hekili rotation list?

its possible?

[torpid fiber]

I know the person who works on the Outlaw hekili default integration is in here somewhere so if you have any specific issues you can probably get them fixed

[covert kestrel]

But what about it doesn't work for KiR as it stands? What did you experience

[torpid fiber]

To be clear I don't use hekili for outlaw and I think using it as a sole source of rotation instead of training wheels will hinder your long-term growth, but I also like to be clear about it instead of saying that it sucks when afaik it doesn't

I think using hekili robs me of the fun so I don't use it

[sullen walrus]

hekili shows a bad rotation for outlaw rogue

[remote pike]

?=??

[glass mortar]

it shouldnt

its just a copy paste of the apl

last i checked

[sullen walrus]

but how u can change default rotation in hekili?

[glass mortar]

unless the apl is also showing a bad rotation

(its not)

[covert kestrel]

What examples do you have of this lol

[fallen knot]

isnt hekili too slow

for outlaw

[sullen walrus]

when u dont to use rtb , hekili shows u , that u need to use it now fx

[grave carbon]

It is

[sullen walrus]

always shows to use vanish

[grave carbon]

But its kinda accurate

[remote pike]

it doesnt

[sullen walrus]

if u have some good rotation for hekili pls share it xD\

[sullen walrus]

it is

[remote pike]

ill stream for u if u want

[glass mortar]

its showing to vanish at low cp/with coup/kspree available?

[sullen walrus]

yeap

[sullen walrus]

go

[glass mortar]

yea idk id need to see proof of that

[sullen walrus]

without mic

[glass mortar]

as far as im aware of, it just plays the apl live for you

[fallen knot]

you'd better go hit targetdummy for half an hour and build muscle memory

after reading prio in outlaw-faq

[remote pike]

im in the two person 1 channel

[sullen walrus]

maybe we use another version of hekili? xD

[remote pike]

if u want to see

[covert kestrel]

You two don't go making out in there now

This is a Christian server, we leave room for Jesus in our chat rooms

[vivid vessel]

I told you if there was one key it would be priory

[stable ice]

can u pls tell me its default hekili or u change it?

[vivid vessel]

But I mean if we wanna play kezN in other keys we can

We just need to arrange routes a bit

Like I think flood can also be a very good kezan key

[covert kestrel]

Despite this hekili being right or wrong it's still a bad tool for wow cause there are more conditions in real dungeons and raids than just apl rotatiob

[remote pike]

i found that the guy updating for outlaw seems to be pretty accurate

so im using default

back in the day i used my own profiles, but this expansion i'm having similar results

[glass mortar]

the guys been in here before fighting the hekilli haters

[sullen walrus]

@vivid vessel what u think about hekili? for the begginers

[glass mortar]

too bad he didnt know blizzard was the #1 hekilli hater

hate it so much they are making their own

[hot olive]

BLIZ is making a defult hekili

[glass mortar]

💅

[remote pike]

wtf is this setting? yamato has it on 20

[stable ice]

i play sin i want to change to outlaw so maybe hekili help a bit

[vivid vessel]

I think hekillihs and other add-ons like those are trash because that's not how you pay the game

Not because it's not good

You could probably never learn outlaw rotation and play with hekillih and parse 99%

[hot olive]

takes the fun out the game for me

[covert kestrel]

It's not a placebo obvs

[glass mortar]

thats just like some top players saying the 1 button macro is probably gunna be bis for everyone to have bound somewhere

just to have a button to press if u suddenly get lost in the sauce doing a mythic mechanic

and wouldnt be hitting buttons correctly anyway

smack blizzard approved rotational button for 3 gcds

people hate the idea of this stuff

[vivid vessel]

Ye I mean

I saw that take and like

Idk

Wizard take

[glass mortar]

true

[vivid vessel]

I never do a bad rotation even when doing mechanics lol

[glass mortar]

wizard af

[vivid vessel]

It can be worse but

It will never be as bad as blizzard thing

That's just a BM hunter one trick take fr

[hybrid crown]

It won't matter for parses because good parses come from farm content where that situation won't happen

[sullen walrus]

okay, i'll delete hekili 🙂

[glass mortar]

yea they r talking about actual progression raiding

ur average raider can probably get a dps gain from the 1 button macro even if they arent using it usually

i will not be binding it out of principle 😠

[vivid vessel]

@fallen knot

time to blast

[hybrid crown]

That makes me want to find and play the class with the best DPS using the one button

And see how far I can get

[vivid vessel]

@fallen knot @fallen knot @fallen knot @fallen knot

[random stirrup]

I’m relatively certain assa has a good chance once it’s fixed

Mostly not gcd locked

[glass mortar]

oh i mean it will 100% be bm right

the whole rotation outside pressing real cds is 3 buttons

[random stirrup]

The gcd thing hurts gcd locked specs a lot though

[latent oak]

ya bm is gcd locked right?

[glass mortar]

it hurts fast specs more then gcd locked ones but its a mix of both

sin apm is very close to bm

[random stirrup]

Assa is both simple and you don’t have to insta press spells the second your gcd ends most of the time

[glass mortar]

even tho bm is apm capped

the flat gcd addition is very punishing if ur baseline gcd is reduced, but downtime in rotation reduces the pain a bit as well

so its a mixed bag

[hybrid crown]

Bm sounds like you might lose a lot if you can't maintain the uhh

[random stirrup]

Or it’ll just be a caster if their casts are longer than gcd

[hybrid crown]

2 stacks of that debuff you put on shit

[random stirrup]

Dev evoker probably will be good

[hybrid crown]

That gives u focus

[random stirrup]

So many channels

[glass mortar]

there is so much leeway in their stacking dot and its one of the 3 buttons they spam i dont think the gcd reduc will make it fall off

channel spells incur almost no cost from the gcd thingy tho so yea

it could be a heavy channel spec like dev

current top dev builds its pretty important optimizing ur cd window for the big gulfers tho and i have no clue how the macro will play that

[random stirrup]

Ya the engulf build will be beans probably

But SC could be good

[glass mortar]

mhm

i wonder what the best melee for it will be

is there a 1.5s base gcd non apm capped melee out there

[random stirrup]

Maybe arms?

[glass mortar]

wait actually wouldnt ret be sick for it ret doesnt even need to manually cast wings

[random stirrup]

Idk much about warrior though

[glass mortar]

but ret is fast enough the gcd cost might be big

i think arms and fury r both decently fast (fury faster obviously)

[random stirrup]

I think for melee again sin is quite a strong contender

Nothing really jumps out

[glass mortar]

yea i could see sin

[random stirrup]

Maybe feral

[glass mortar]

only thing is, i dont know if they plan to make it work for major cds

[random stirrup]

But it’s been a while since I played feral

[glass mortar]

which means major cd specs could suffer the worst from using it

if ur trying to just use it

[stuck sparrow]

the only “tight” thing for sin

is if you want to try fitting another envenom in

[white marten]

Is fury still trash in m+?

[stuck sparrow]

beforr having to shiv again

[stuck sparrow]

in highest keys

[random stirrup]

I mean dm windows will be a bit cooked with the gcd thing anyway

[glass mortar]

yea

[random stirrup]

But all specs will be to some degree

[glass mortar]

i think alot of big cd profile specs will suffer heavily from the gcd thing

[stuck sparrow]

fury is hardcapped

to 5 targets

XD

[white marten]

Ah

So arms better

[stuck sparrow]

I think its bugged rn

[white marten]

Oof

[stuck sparrow]

the 30% whirlwind echo

does 70%

and applies to thane

and prot is just

a 4th dps

[white marten]

Tryna figure out what other class i wanna hit 3k on

[stuck sparrow]

You just have less group util compared to other tanks

but the damage is so fun

[vale warren]

They need to bring glad stance back man

[glass mortar]

sword and board dps goes hard

id love a 1hander dps spec too

[white marten]

It does

[glass mortar]

just a 1 hander

so few games do a proper duelist

[white marten]

Outlaw the only duelist in game. Sadge

[glass mortar]

yea i mean

to me, outlaw should be that spec

but people love their DW animations too much

very silly to me that we drop our weapon pull out a pistol, shoot it, put the pistol away and grab our weapon again

[stuck sparrow]

Just saying

[vale warren]

All in 0.8 seconds

[glass mortar]

having a legit gunsword makes more sense then that

ngl

[stuck sparrow]

demolish hitting like 10mil to its main target

as a tank spec

is

[glass mortar]

based

[desert tendon]

you re so good

i like u zac

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel nightelf is so good with eye of kezan ngl

free restealths lmao

[stuck sparrow]

Well we have literal gunswords

rn this patch

[desert tendon]

zac never restealth anyway

he pulls with pistol

[white marten]

This aint monster hunter

[desert tendon]

[stuck sparrow]

The rik sword

and pvp skin

[vivid vessel]

@proven ocean

log

[proven ocean]

my overall is breakdown is so nice

[proven ocean]

i died before 2nd boss

[desert tendon]

what about sub zero btw?

[white marten]

Blade flurry is missing

[desert tendon]

have u tried

[proven ocean]

was gonna be 20 stacks entire key

[vivid vessel]

ah

[proven ocean]

but unlucky

[vivid vessel]

well log either wya

[proven ocean]

ye i never knew there was flamestrike there

[vivid vessel]

if you are playing kezan

[proven ocean]

so i kinda ate it

ye

will do

[white marten]

Thats not the bleed build

[proven ocean]

it was abit invisible

[red zinc]

blud build in big 2025

💔

[vivid vessel]

@red zinc you wanna come

[red zinc]

naw im cookin

[vivid vessel]

noob

[red zinc]

making a pad thai but without spice

[cinder haven]

anyone know where the ring/circle boss ability timer is from?

[hybrid crown]

I wonder if that's baked into WA

[cinder haven]

one of the raid ability timeline ones you mean?

[hybrid crown]

oh no I thought you meant like when you get a mechanic on you and the timer for it is a circle

Like I think one of the liquid weak auras does that

[cinder haven]

I've seen some streamers using something like that in m+

it would say something like AOE then a circle timer for when aoe starts and if it is pulsing it would have another circle after for that

or LOS on kujo for example

maybe it's one of the tww dungeon wa packs or something

[hybrid crown]

yeah I was just noodling about in wago and found this 1 it has all sorts of circles

https://wago.io/bO1dqzjLe

[cinder haven]

that looks like it could be it yeah, thanks!

[winged inlet]

hey been watching zac Outlaw +20 WS - R2 run , so he uses between eyes and after dispatch immediately . So my question is do i use it even on 1 cp ? whats the intereaction behind . ty

[glass mortar]

ur seeing crackshot go off

he is not casting dispatch

[frail veldt]

yeah thats just our talent

[glass mortar]

crackshot makes bte cast a 50% damage dispatch

[winged inlet]

oh ok ok , so ive been checking logs and their dispatch is 3d row always , and my like 6, i quess i should use it way more

[glass mortar]

you cast dispatch when u have no more important finisher to cast (kspree or BtE)

so basically, never in crackshot windows

[vivid vessel]

i think in low keys you are in subterfuge more often

so you cast bte more

[gaunt phoenix]

u cant really "use dispatch more"

[glass mortar]

yea

zacs fights are much longer sustain combat then u will get in average keys cause ur getting more restealths then zac

very easy to go long periods of time not manually casting dispatch in lower keys tbh

between coup, kspree and restealths

[winged inlet]

holy moly thank you for info!

[frail veldt]

All the secrets to outlaw are in the faq

[winged depot]

What bind do y'all use for Vanish? I can't find a comfy one for it that makes sense atm

probably just muscle memory but idk

[frail veldt]

thats entirely personal pref

I use shift+2

[gaunt phoenix]

vanish is R

[daring cave]

Ctrl 6

[frail veldt]

whoa

[gaunt phoenix]

nice

[vivid vessel]

vanish on r is crazy

[winged depot]

damn! wildly different

[frail veldt]

ctrl + 6 is wild

[winged depot]

xd

[vivid vessel]

i will never understand wasting these prime binds

[gaunt phoenix]

[vivid vessel]

on cooldowns

ngl

like all these buttons

[gaunt phoenix]

my qert is all cds

[frail veldt]

vanish is 20s cd

[daring cave]

MMO mouse. Dont have to reach at all.

[frail veldt]

its hardly a cd

[vivid vessel]

q e r f

[frail veldt]

wait zac

[vivid vessel]

these are mega prime

[frail veldt]

wnaa hear something

crazy

[frail veldt]

my adrenaline rush

is on

R

[winged depot]

oops

Last one is my current

[vivid vessel]

ok

man

thats crazy

[frail veldt]

and my GS is on shift R lol

[daring cave]

I have KS on R

[vivid vessel]

you guys have terrible binds

ngl

[frail veldt]

honestly my binds are awful cuz I made them forever ago

my bladeflurry

is on

alt-f

[vivid vessel]

i mean

[frail veldt]

LOL

[vivid vessel]

i just remade all my binds

after playing sl

[frail veldt]

yeah fuck that

[vivid vessel]

and then i redid them all bit by bit

like bte didnt used to be on my r

before

it was like shift e or whatever bullshit

[frail veldt]

my hands dont hurt and im not mispressing so I dont have to worry tbh

[old gull]

Z is my cleave on every class

[gaunt phoenix]

z is mount

[frail veldt]

my bte was luckily already on q

Z is /use 13 haha

[old gull]

Shift 2 bte

[frail veldt]

I hate z as a bind

[white marten]

I have KS on F

[frail veldt]

feels awkward

[white marten]

Most logical keybind for KS

[gaunt phoenix]

z mount is from playing HotS

[frail veldt]

ah

[old gull]

My ks is G

[bronze robin]

I do builders on left hand, spenders on right. Works pretty well for me /shrug

[frail veldt]

my mount is on ctrl-4

for the flying mount

[white marten]

Z is my auto run from GW2

[frail veldt]

and ctrl-3 for ground

cuz I dont like the look of flying mounts hahaha so I use ground mounts when I can

[old gull]

Mount is like… shift-T

[white marten]

I do the opposite. Less strain on left hand

[frail veldt]

oh like you use the mouse buttons?

[tired wolf]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB as you enter the dungeon to get 2 Supercharger stacks.
• DO NOT RTB again inside the bubble as you will lose the supercharger stacks, similarly do not AR early inside the bubble or you will lose the combo points.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open on pack with AR into BtE.

[white marten]

Yes

[bronze robin]

Makes sense. I'm left-hand dominant though

[bronze robin]

yeah mmo mouse

[frail veldt]

Honestly all the people I know who bind rotation stuff to the mouse button get fucked hands haha

I dont think your thumb is meant to spam that hard

[old gull]

Cloak of shadows is Q, prime binds are stuff I need to hit quick

[frail veldt]

not as ergo as the keyboard

I know some people put modifiers on their mouse though

[white marten]

Trying to move while spamming builders is not it

No finger is meant to spam that hard

[frail veldt]

some more than others

[covert kestrel]

Bte, dispatch, feint, vanish, KS are on my mouse 😂

[stuck sparrow]

R is prime kick bind

wtf

[gaunt phoenix]

no !

[frail veldt]

fried

[stuck sparrow]

i actually dont have a single cd

[white marten]

Ctrl-3 for kick

[stuck sparrow]

bound to a non modifier

[vivid vessel]

wtf guys

sidney sweeney

is selling her bath water

crazy deal

[frail veldt]

hell yeah

[gaunt phoenix]

[old gull]

X is kick for me, ctrl 3 is crazy lol

[covert kestrel]

Now I'll finally hit 2,5k!

[daring cave]

kick on 6

[white marten]

How is it crazy? Its literally easy to reach

[frail veldt]

LOL this is wild

you dont use alt

[frail veldt]

or 2?

[teal garnet]

think we'd get a discount if we bought in bulk and split the jars evenly?

[white marten]

I never use alt

[covert kestrel]

What did 2 ever do to you

[daring cave]

No alt. Just shift and ctrl

[frail veldt]

do you use esdf instead of wasd or something?

[bronze robin]

lol I had to move kick to an annoying bind on arcane because I was ending 15's with more kicks than the tank. Kicking during CD's apparently is bad

[covert kestrel]

Gs on 1 is cooked

[random stirrup]

1 is an awkward bind for me

thats why its there

[daring cave]

I try to keep keybinds themed across all characters. Like 3 is stun, 5 is finisher/executes, 6 is kicks, etc

dont need a 2 on this rog

[frail veldt]

do you not have cheapshot bound?

[daring cave]

cheapshot is on 2 for stealth bar

no stealth is empty

[covert kestrel]

Never pressed cheap shot in my life

[frail veldt]

yall wild

[covert kestrel]

Dps loss

[frail veldt]

dying is a dps loss

[daring cave]

yeah i very very rarely use CS on outlaw

[glass mortar]

never use kidney

[frail veldt]

yeah you should cheap over kidney

if anything you could remove kidney

but then when you arent in subt you need it

[bronze robin]

I cheap constantly wtf

[frail veldt]

so you really should use both

[glass mortar]

i mean i use cheap if i know 100% that something going off will kill someone

otherwise healer issue

[frail veldt]

exactly

[glass mortar]

someone shoulda used a real stop

[frail veldt]

but sadly

[glass mortar]

💅

[frail veldt]

in pugs

that happens not infrequently

[past falcon]

i dont have cs bound lol

[glass mortar]

our stops r pretty expensive to use

compared to most specs in the game

[frail veldt]

cheap really isnt

as kir

builder damage is almost irrelevant

[past falcon]

thats my subterfuge window bro

[covert kestrel]

If kick and blind don't do it, it's someone else's fault

[frail veldt]

I mean a cheap vs a raw SS

not a big diff

[glass mortar]

i mean cheap is like a guarenteed 1 cp SS during crackshot

id never opt to use that

[frail veldt]

its 2

cheap isnt 1 cp

[white marten]

Eye gouge ftw

[glass mortar]

2 ye

[frail veldt]

im not saying id use it over ss for no reason

im just saying its not really a loss

[past falcon]

hmm

[glass mortar]

i mean it definitly is a loss, and its loss level scales hard with aoe too

[past falcon]

alas i dont have an extra keybind

[frail veldt]

its extremely minimal lol

[glass mortar]

1 gcd of zero damage in aoe is 10X the cost in an aoe pull vs a st pull

[frail veldt]

SS hits for fucking PISS bro

[covert kestrel]

Law has no binds bro

Surely you have some modifier free

[neat sapphire]

when im looking at logs, i see that people use dispatch around 10% of the time.. for example they cast BTE 300 times, and regular dispatch only 30 times.. but what do u actually do when u run out of vanish charges?

[frail veldt]

only actual loss is the PS proc chance

[past falcon]

IVE GOT SMALL HANDS

[frail veldt]

you press dispatch

[glass mortar]

do the rotation until u get a vanish charge back

i dont rlly understand the question ye

[frail veldt]

if youplay well you spend a lot of time in vanish windows

[glass mortar]

cast bte if its off cd, cast kspree if its off cd, cast dispatch else

[neat sapphire]

and you just blast through as many vanish windows as u can?

[glass mortar]

yes

[gaunt phoenix]

having low dispatch casts is usually because you are cycling through vanishes / killing spree / coup so much that you dont actually press dispatch a lot

[covert kestrel]

That's all we do, blast

https://tenor.com/view/danny-devito-blasting-gif-26810421

[frail veldt]

well you follow the rotation rules in the faq very closely and you will get a lot of vanishes

you dont vanish more by just pressing vanish more

[neat sapphire]

clearly 😛 its just a sometimes find myself in some downtime

but i guess thats normal then

[frail veldt]

yeah you can reduce the downtime by very efficient builder/spender usage

which will give you more cdr

and more vanishes

[neat sapphire]

guess im playing it more or less correctly then

[gaunt phoenix]

should have similar or more killing spree casts than raw dispatch

[frail veldt]

a good measure of how well youre playing is your adr uptime

[frail veldt]

if youre above like 85% youre prob doing stuff right

below that and youre probably missing some rules

[neat sapphire]

hmm.. 73% there

priory

[frail veldt]

yeah should check out the faq make sure youre following everything correctly

[gaunt phoenix]

another KIR 1 FTH victim

[frail veldt]

lolol

its not thaaaat bad

[neat sapphire]

we're not doing kir 1fth anymore?

[frail veldt]

we are

its just very hard to do right

[glass mortar]

if ur new to outlaw you should not be touching 1 fth with a 10 foot pole

[gaunt phoenix]

We are but it's hard

[glass mortar]

until u get the basics down

[frail veldt]

so it can be bait for some players

[glass mortar]

legit the hardest build we've ever had prob

[frail veldt]

for sure

[glass mortar]

it is extremely hard to play, especially st

[neat sapphire]

well, if i wanted easy id play a boomy 😛

[glass mortar]

no outlaw build is easy

[gaunt phoenix]

xd

[glass mortar]

1 fth is just gross

dont try to learn law with 1 fth

thats a mistake

[keen belfry]

I wonder how much I fuck up with 1fth

[frail veldt]

If you want to start o the hardest build you can definitely do it

73% isnt awful

[keen belfry]

I should watch a vod

[glass mortar]

73% is pretty bad

[frail veldt]

I mean

[winged depot]

whats 1fth?

[glass mortar]

assuming no wipes

[fickle spear]

whats even the overall difference between a KiR and HO build atm?

[frail veldt]

if youre brand new

its really not

[gaunt phoenix]

literally 1%

You master KIR 1 FTH and deal 1% more overall

[covert kestrel]

I'm not looking at unseen blade at all so I'm definitely fucking up builders a lot

[frail veldt]

oh thats a big one

[neat sapphire]

ill give HO anothere chance

[frail veldt]

thats kinda the whole point of 1pt fth

[glass mortar]

i mean even just base kir if u wanna learn kir

[past falcon]

maybe you'd have a higher score than me if u played HO /j

[glass mortar]

just learn the outlaw basics, get adr uptime higher

then shift to 1 fth

but HO is the easier to learn yea

[gaunt phoenix]

HO without GS should be THE build

but alas

[neat sapphire]

do we still vanish into ambush?

[gaunt phoenix]

my influence

[frail veldt]

I mean

HO non GS plays amazing

tbh

[glass mortar]

u vanish into bte

[frail veldt]

its so clear cut

[glass mortar]

same as any build

u primarily ambush in stealth instead of using PS tho

[frail veldt]

alwaysa vanish at finish condition CP levels

so you dont waste globals at the start of vanish building cps

[neat sapphire]

ah offc

[gaunt phoenix]

you only vanish into ambush if you have to like if AR will expire in a global

[glass mortar]

ngl i vanish into builder all the time with cudgel if itll let me get another cudgel proc on the full pack before a bunch of piss mobs die

this weapon has me padding like i never padded before

[gaunt phoenix]

I do it too

[frail veldt]

thats wild

[glass mortar]

listen man cudgel proc on 15 mobs instead of 5 mobs?

give it to me

[frail veldt]

haha

I mean

[glass mortar]

i need the purple explosion dopamine

[winged depot]

if u have high CP and BTE is on CD u vanish into BTE rite?

[frail veldt]

I wish I could pay better attention to the visuals in this game

[winged depot]

with HO build

[frail veldt]

bte cd doesnt matter for vanish as HO

[glass mortar]

if u have high cp and vanish u vanish into BtE

[frail veldt]

you vanish when KS > 30s cd

[glass mortar]

BtEs cd only matters for fatebound builds

[frail veldt]

and you dont have a coup ready

[glass mortar]

ur tracking coup and kspree for vanish conditions for trickster yea

[frail veldt]

and arent only 1 away from Coup

[winged depot]

Doesn't Vanish reset BTE CD?

[glass mortar]

yes

[frail veldt]

it does

but it doesnt matter to optimize

[gaunt phoenix]

you vanish whether BTE is on cooldown or not, and BTE cooldown resets as soon as you enter stealth (by pressing stealth or vanish)

[glass mortar]

u dont care if its on cd or not as trickster

[frail veldt]

theres so many cooks in the kitchen rn

hahahahhaa

[gaunt phoenix]

Trickster cant afford to put BTE on cooldown every time before vanish, or you will miss the threshold to vanish based on killing spree cooldown

[winged depot]

so under what condition do u vanishh then? I thought it was to reset the BTE + (Keep ADR on if its low)

Or is it just for extending ADR

[gaunt phoenix]

the core rule is just vanish when AR is active

but as trickster, you try not to vanish if killing spree cooldown is under 20s or so

and this happens a lot

[glass mortar]

also dont vanish if coup is available

as in active

[gaunt phoenix]

ya

[glass mortar]

theres some more minor optimizations to also not vanish if you can use a coup before it (have the blades readied) but i think thats a kir only thing? and minor regardless

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel u rdy at 20:00? helena needs an hour

[winged depot]

this is what it said iin the HO guide on Icyveins, though it didn't seem to say that on Wowhhead so i'm not sure now?

Do not use Vanish if Between the Eyes Icon Between the Eyes is off cooldown, to benefit from the cooldown refresh on BtE after using Vanish. Only Vanish Icon Vanish when Adrenaline Rush Icon Adrenaline Rush is active.

[glass mortar]

looks like outdated fatebound stuff

[gaunt phoenix]

i dont keep up with these guides

[glass mortar]

use the FaQ or wowhead

no clue how up to date IV is

[gaunt phoenix]

just read my #outlaw-faq

[winged depot]

kay

thanks

[glass mortar]

fatebound has optimizations for vanish usage based on RtB rolles/BtE being on cd so any rules talking about that are likely based off old builds

[gaunt phoenix]

respectfully these other paid guides have something wrong with them somewhere all the time

[glass mortar]

still relevant for fatebound fwiw we just rarely ever play that

the problem solo, is ur always optimizing and rules changing over the season

1 set of rules all season i say

optimizing past week 1 is a mistake!

lock in just like blizzard

😠

[gaunt phoenix]

true

[neat sapphire]

do we use pistolshot procs during subterfuge windows?

[gaunt phoenix]

except the simple rotation doesnt change

[glass mortar]

as kir yes, as HO yes but with some major caveats

[gaunt phoenix]

and they can hardly copy that correctly

[glass mortar]

(the caveats r in the FaQ)

[gaunt phoenix]

HO mostly no, KIR yes

[winged depot]

I think i'm also better off not putting to much effort/thought while lvling without my hero talents cuz its a bit confusing

[neat sapphire]

wasnt there a macro for SS/PS?

[gaunt phoenix]

no

[keen belfry]

😦

[gaunt phoenix]

noob

[past falcon]

once my homies brick my 19psf ill help u with the 18 king

[keen belfry]

ty lil bro

[glass mortar]

???? awang just lil bro'd u

better brick his 18 wtf

[past falcon]

LMAO

[glass mortar]

crazy behavior

[keen belfry]

i meant noah fence by it

[glass mortar]

i knew as soon as i liked subbed and favorited he would grow too big for his britches

[past falcon]

so u think im skinny ???

[keen belfry]

arent all outlaw players skinny but jacked

smart yet selfless

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

[frail veldt]

accurate

[red zinc]

naw im built like a minifridge

[gaunt phoenix]

[glass mortar]

draeni main??

actually those guys are the full fridge ngl

[gaunt phoenix]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/free-respecs-of-horrific-visions-talents-377051?utm_source=discord-webhook

cool article

[glass mortar]

.....

what is the point of this function for something we are going to have every talent unlocked in

[red zinc]

Squishei article?

[gaunt phoenix]

nop

[red zinc]

Wtf its not him

incredible

that guy gets paid per article or something cause the bullshit he has to post about sometimes

holy

[keen belfry]

i think i have to raid as rogue next tier guys

[gaunt phoenix]

nice

Outlaw tier trust

[keen belfry]

im tired of having no mythic raid loot on this guy

[red zinc]

no rogue updates in 11.2 bout to go crazy

the creeping despair that will consume this channel every ptr week

[covert kestrel]

I'm built like a linebacker speak for yourself

[glass mortar]

i mean if we have no kspree change in 11.2 its break from the game angle for me

[red zinc]

speaking of 11.2 ptr we should be getting it soon

[sullen walrus]

fatebound + ho for raid?

[glass mortar]

im at my limit with this nonsense

[sullen walrus]

or trickster + ho ?

[red zinc]

Ptr normally 2-2.5 months before patch

[keen belfry]

we will look back at S2 TWW as a fever dream guys

[red zinc]

We’re 13 weeks in now?

i think

[gaunt phoenix]

most bossea are trickster for the way better aoe dmg

but some mythic bosses u cannot killing spree

[glass mortar]

on herioc its trickster on every boss

[sullen walrus]

mythic

[glass mortar]

on mythic u play fatebound cause ur forced to on sprocket

and trickster everywhere else as long as u can play it without trolling ur raid

which gets more difficult as u move past sprocket

[frail veldt]

I played fatebound on some heroic bosses last night, had an insane pull didnt fuck a global up literally 100% adr uptime, then checked auras and I had 17% lucky coin.....

[glass mortar]

🙂

[frail veldt]

only got a 96

[red zinc]

Do we have a leaked / calculated date for .7 yet

[frail veldt]

genuinely

FUCK

FATEBOUND

[glass mortar]

ye

[frail veldt]

actually high key

lucky coin

needs to die

[glass mortar]

mewo ive crashed out on lucky coin since beta tww

embaressing all the stuff that at least deserved some kinda band aid and no changes to the hero talents over 2 full seasons

[red zinc]

just remember when we said “this talent is useless beyond it proccing” when we thought it would still proc

[glass mortar]

other then to buff the hero talent nobody wanted to play to be giga bis in anything with cleave

[red zinc]

[frail veldt]

Okay now that outlaw blasts, how many people still wish outlaw was uncapped if it came with a nerf to our 8 target obv

[keen belfry]

Hm

Pc working has changed how I view our cap a little bit

[glass mortar]

softcapped? and bake in PC scaling from 8 targets but weaker

id still take it

[frail veldt]

yeah but we arent giga out dpsing every spec at 8 target anymore

[red zinc]

If bf gets a hyperbolic target scaling thingie

Then id want it

[frail veldt]

like we just become another spec that sqrt scales with aoe

[glass mortar]

u mean quadratic target scaling

[frail veldt]

no

[glass mortar]

its only hyperbolic if zeross is saying it

[frail veldt]

quadratic scaling is like uhdk

[glass mortar]

im responding to timmy

[frail veldt]

sqrt meaning we scale less than linear

ah

[red zinc]

ye samesies

[mighty pivot]

we'd have some uncapped aoe if BR wasn't a meme

[atomic dirge]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[fallen knot]

i mean

they need to do something about this

[keen belfry]

how much worse is a KIR no cto 2fth pc build @gaunt phoenix

[frail veldt]

personally I like cudgel giving us just SOME amount of aoe scaling

but I actually like being a spec that doesnt rely on big pulls to do good overall

as a lifetime pugger

makes it easier to carry keys imo

[red zinc]

about what

[frail veldt]

you cant no cto as kir

[latent oak]

xdd

[keen belfry]

ye lifetime pugger here too, we are good for non coordinated

[frail veldt]

its in the pathing

you cant drop it

[glass mortar]

u wanna explain how u are getting kir without cto brotherman

[keen belfry]

hahahh

[frail veldt]

if you want to drop something for fth its gs

[fallen knot]

it's just weird

[gaunt phoenix]

i knew you meant no gs

[frail veldt]

but you lose like 6% overall dps

[latent oak]

imagine if wow talents had thread of hope

[frail veldt]

I've checked sadly

[fallen knot]

that like

[keen belfry]

yeah gs is too good

[red zinc]

The only issue with bf is that complete bonobo’s call outlaw a one button spec because of it

[glass mortar]

the tradoff is 5-6% st

[red zinc]

But who tf cares

[fallen knot]

our source of damage is blade flurry

[frail veldt]

p sure its like 4% dslice still

not just st

[fallen knot]

idk

[frail veldt]

last time I simmed it

[glass mortar]

u also lose aoe yes

fth is a st and aoe node

ghostly is not really

[frail veldt]

I mean even in aoe, 30% of our damage is ST still

20-30% ig

so GS value is still decent

[glass mortar]

like 3% sure

[frail veldt]

ye

[keen belfry]

gs costs way too much energy

or i guess

[frail veldt]

the second point of fth is just wasted I think since we have so much BS uptime now

[keen belfry]

everything we have does

[frail veldt]

yeah

fr

fr

fr

fuck gs

its like a fucking red shell in our rotation

youre just cruising along

everythings great

and suddenly

BAM

[keen belfry]

like no cap when you are at a low point of kir in st sometimes gs feels like dps loss to press

[frail veldt]

no energy

[glass mortar]

the only times u ever notice ghostly are when its fucking you

[frail veldt]

I wont press gs at low energy

[glass mortar]

usually it doesnt

[frail veldt]

if Im not about to vanish

it feels awful

[glass mortar]

but it makes energy droughts 100% more noticable

[frail veldt]

esp with adr down

I dont fuck with gs

[glass mortar]

doesnt have any impact or fun effect when u press it

can practically be macrod

[frail veldt]

yeah thats the worst kind of talent

[glass mortar]

costs mondo energy

[frail veldt]

unnoticeable when its working

and awful when it isnt

[dawn talon]

if i hear "that damage breakdown" one more time

[glass mortar]

hate that like 11% of our st dps is tied to this spell

[frail veldt]

TRUE

people genuinely think

im just pressing BF

every gcd

in aoe

thats how they think it works

[glass mortar]

i had a friends list dk whisper me after a key where i did insane overall (i didnt even realize he was on my friends list he just joined a pug i was in)

"your spec is 2 buttons or"

[frail veldt]

its genuinely upsetting

[glass mortar]

yea man 2 buttons give it a whirl

[latent oak]

its funny idk

[sharp sand]

This happened to me the other night roll

Rofl

[glass mortar]

i mean ive played fire mage so its just funny to me

[frail veldt]

Yeah usually what I tell people is to just try the spec out

[keen belfry]

its just like ignite with fire mage, ignite is like 40% of dmg in aoe if not more but it scales of playing well

[glass mortar]

back when i played fire it was 80-90%

it was the best of times it was the most degenerate of times

i miss nylotha

[frail veldt]

Or I just send them a screenshot of part of our faq

[glass mortar]

creating functional raid strategies specifically around fire mages

[frail veldt]

and tell them to attempt to understand it

[glass mortar]

deleting entire sides of carapace of nzoth with 2 combusts

🤤

[frail veldt]

damage breakdowns are honestly just an awful way to determine spec difficulty

fire mage is similar

[fallen knot]

yes

[frail veldt]

"ignite"

[fallen knot]

they are

[glass mortar]

only one thats accurate is bm

yes it is 99% the pet doing that

[keen belfry]

do you guys notice you seem to get near 2 vanish charges kinda often? i feel like thats my biggest misplay lately

[fallen knot]

but again it's weird as fuck

[glass mortar]

girlfriend spec 😠

[frail veldt]

BM has like 900 sources though

[fallen knot]

uh dk seems impossible

it's a 2button spec

[glass mortar]

in lower keys where im barely getting a vanish a pack before restealth yea

[frail veldt]

as HO sometimes yeah

[fallen knot]

if you look at sources of damage

[frail veldt]

but yeah this was only early on

I think back when we had double coup

[glass mortar]

if ur super popping off with cdr and unseen luck as well

giving u too many coups

[keen belfry]

i wonder what im doing wrong cause i feel like im for sure near 2 vanish SOMETIMES

not like super often

but im like hm

why me have 2 vanish

[glass mortar]

sounds like u need to be more aggresive with breaking the rules of rotation to pad on smallies with cudgel fam

this is a terrible habit i need to break

[pure folio]

What key level are you doing @keen belfry

[keen belfry]

18s/19s

[vivid vessel]

no

i dont

you migth be missplaying

[pure folio]

I think you’re just doing the rotation wrong then. I doubt you’re having a surplus of restealths authentically

I’m almost never at 2 vanish charges

[keen belfry]

its not as often as im making it seem

but before that would never never happen

im for sure misplaying i just need to find a vod

[glass mortar]

its basically the first 2-3 minutes of most keys for me if i get good rng on the first pull tbh

like if u end a pack with 1 vanish charge off cd

then u open on a new pack with TB up, kspree in the tank, probably a coup immediatly after ur crackshot as well

u can be pretty damn close to having that second vanish charge off cd

before u reach subterfuge conditions again

god forbid u need to double kspree

[pure folio]

@vivid vessel I’ve got a question if you don’t mind answering. It might be weird

Playing with deft, If I know I’m about to vanish and I have BF off cd. Is it best to build up with sinister strikes then go into vanish for a better crack shot window

Or just send BF before and not worry about it

[gaunt phoenix]

Deft unless you have unseen blade ready

or you lose CDR on it

[keen belfry]

i have exact vod of this happening

i think the misplay is not vanishing right here on previous pack

[vivid vessel]

pack is at 12%

you arent vanishing ?

[keen belfry]

12% of tiny mobs, but its for sure misplay

[vivid vessel]

i mean

idk

i think i do the opposite

i tend to sometimes send when i shouldnt

but ye idk

[keen belfry]

i mean wha ti do is misplay

[glass mortar]

????

[keen belfry]

saving that vanish didnt even gain me one, it lost me cdr

[glass mortar]

12% hp left on smallies

has cudgel equipped

doesnt vanish???????

ur mad

big player issue for sure i take it back, u arent reaching it naturally

[hybrid crown]

I do cheesy stuff to kill small fry mobs before the other DPS too lol

[glass mortar]

[keen belfry]

no cap i dont have cudgel on for this pull

may i ask why?

[glass mortar]

.....

[keen belfry]

cuz forgot

[glass mortar]

chat is this real

[keen belfry]

i swear 13 mil is good for that pull no cudgel

shoutout buffs

[glass mortar]

zac would be at 30m

[keen belfry]

yeah cuz he has the magnet

right guys?

[glass mortar]

!

[keen belfry]

magnet 30mil dps

[glass mortar]

true