outlaw

[glass mortar]

trickster kir is

like 3-4% behind HO st

[runic bough]

His prob simming kir woth ho haste

[frail veldt]

what %

[subtle ginkgo]

26.96

[frail veldt]

holy

thats too much for both

[subtle ginkgo]

lmao

[glass mortar]

is that ur haste from gear

or ur haste with haste talents active in stealth

[subtle ginkgo]

thats literally standing in dorn.

[glass mortar]

oh 17k i see that now

yea thats waaay too much brother

[subtle ginkgo]

soo recraft my neck off haste to crit?

[runic bough]

Maybe ks finishes faster

[subtle ginkgo]

will put me to 14k and 8k?

[runic bough]

Could be worth it

[subtle ginkgo]

im 100% way low on crit then huh?

[long barn]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9d8yGNdPS9yvzgJfuQoAxT

[frail veldt]

nope its been simmed

haste is not worth it

[runic bough]

Yes it might not be worth it on sim, but maybe for shorter trololsprees

[subtle ginkgo]

whats the spot i wanna be at ideally then? like 18% haste? or even lower?

[frail veldt]

!haste

[ornate heath]

Total stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush lowers your GCD based on it, down to 0.8s at 25% haste.

The KIR build wants 18-20% haste from rating, because its only haste buff is from Alacrity.

The HO build meets this requirement with 8-10% haste from rating because of Take 'em by Surprise, but the new HO + Supercharger build continues to like Haste just because of energy, so you will have to sim. Your sim may settle for KIR-levels of haste (~18%) or slightly lower.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use.
You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[frail veldt]

oh thats out of date

[glass mortar]

brother theres too many options in this sim for me to try to read thru and figure out whats going on

[frail veldt]

oh nvm its not

[glass mortar]

jesus christ how do people live simming like this

[subtle ginkgo]

okay so im want to drop almost 9% haste then - damn.

[glass mortar]

idk how u get useful info from it

[frail veldt]

yeah depends on if youre running GS or not as HO, without GS HO can go as low as 14-16%, with GS its closer to 19% like KiR

[glass mortar]

i just sim builds vs each other then compare gear per build

[frail veldt]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ufTRM49RDqVdiroMuv1tN9

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aJh27iBDir5RhYtMtPxFTh

I just took top vs current

so yeah thats trickster KiR

[long barn]

Patchwork though

I think Trick KIR is best slice

[frail veldt]

its expected for KiR trickster to sim below HO trikcster in patchwerk

[subtle ginkgo]

its legit the best type of sim, just cuz the movement variable is taken out.

[long barn]

Ohhj

Your saying always use dslice

[glass mortar]

trick kir has always been worse then trick HO st yea

fatebound kir is the ST kir build

the best one anyway

trick HO and fatebound kir should be very similar

[frail veldt]

well what are you trying to determine?

[long barn]

Im trying to decide whether or not to roll HO or KIR for both raid and m+

[glass mortar]

its preference

[long barn]

Cause for HO I would need to drop haste

[frail veldt]

I mean you can play fatebound KiR in raid

if you want

[glass mortar]

they r both extremely similar now a day and for ur average player HO will perform better

[frail veldt]

but also raid almost ALWAYS has cleave

[long barn]

Doesn’t it suck for cleave fights or no

[frail veldt]

on like every fight

yeah

so the 4% diff doesnt matter much for KiR trickster in a ST patchwerk

[glass mortar]

fatebound kir only has 1 fight it really shines on, and even there it only shines because u cannot play trickster (mythic sprocket)

[long barn]

Ahh

[glass mortar]

rest of the raid u want trickster, kir vs HO is preferance

[frail veldt]

I would play the one you like

[glass mortar]

top logs are filled with both of them

[long barn]

Yea

[frail veldt]

theres no reason to pick HO or KiR for performance reasons this season

[crisp condor]

Is that dungeon slice sim not really low? My 668 rogue sims only ~190k less or is the ilvl scaling really that low in slice

[frail veldt]

less than what

[crisp condor]

The KIR sim

4.033m

[glass mortar]

they have selective raid buffs turned off in this sim

[frail veldt]

^

[glass mortar]

only have the ones turned on they usually have i imagine

[gaunt phoenix]

it doesnt have aoe talents

[glass mortar]

u probably have them all on

[frail veldt]

oh yeah

[glass mortar]

also that

[frail veldt]

Im super confused

this isnt a patchwerk sim either

I saw st talents and didnt even pay attention

[long barn]

Did I fuck that up?

[crisp condor]

Nah just food/flask/weapon stones

[frail veldt]

also in the HO build youre using gallywix wep

[glass mortar]

well ur simming ST builds in dslice

[long barn]

Or you talking about someone else’s

[frail veldt]

and in the KiR build youre just using crowd favorite

[glass mortar]

those arent the builds ur gunna run in dungeons i imagine

[frail veldt]

you @long barn

rerun your sim for patchwerk

with that setup

[long barn]

I was distracted lol

When I ran the sim

[crisp condor]

Simming the standard 1fth KiR build

[long barn]

I’m very confident on the trick kir dslice

Is probs my current gear, minus the chest upgrade

[crisp condor]

In fact mine has less buffs as no aug rune, no skyfury, no druid buff

[slate plaza]

bro fuck

i crafted a mythic chest last week just to get a mythic chestin vault

[frail veldt]

hes simming a st build

[slate plaza]

bis aalso

[frail veldt]

so that could be why

[crisp condor]

Ah, no dancing/precise

I saw the KiR and assumed it was the usual for dungeons since Dslice

[long barn]

But I mean you guys are right. Under most scenarios, I could run HO Trick for raid cleave. Because it would want like high haste.

[frail veldt]

wait wdym

[long barn]

And just leave the haste 19.5 and run kir in keys

[frail veldt]

HO trick ST build wants same haste as KiR

[glass mortar]

in raid ur probably gunna want kir amounts of haste regardless

[frail veldt]

ah yeah

[long barn]

Exactly

[frail veldt]

I see what youre saying

[glass mortar]

ghostly strike HO builds also want around that much

[frail veldt]

I mean personally

I dont like swapping between the two

Id rather just run KiR trickster all the time and get really good at it

[long barn]

Yea I know. But I seem to play better with HO

[frail veldt]

gotcha

[long barn]

But in the 18+ keys I hate having to choose GS vs the cleave talent

Forget the name

[glass mortar]

pc

[frail veldt]

fuck gs

[glass mortar]

and yes it sucks

[frail veldt]

lowkey

[long barn]

In HO can’t have it

[frail veldt]

I know

[long barn]

Really

[frail veldt]

its great

[long barn]

I mean

[frail veldt]

fuck gs

horrible button

[long barn]

Ha

[glass mortar]

really awful tradeoff we arent used to needing to make

[frail veldt]

feels awful every time

drains energy af

0/10

[glass mortar]

not great losing 10% ST/prio damage

with one single talent change tho

[frail veldt]

but pc

[lost dagger]

anyone macro in keys/priory signet in with anything? or we just hitting independently?

[frail veldt]

go brr

[frail veldt]

!macro

[ornate heath]

Macroing gs is relatively "ok", be aware that it wont ever be entirely optimal: target swapping in m+ or putting it on a dying target for example. You can macro it to all your abilities.

[frail veldt]

damn

lol

!trinkets

[glass mortar]

bind ur trinkets

[frail veldt]

I swear we have one for this

[long barn]

All the top logs for keys are using GS for like 18-20

I know it sucks but like

[glass mortar]

they will likely be playing 1 fth kir

[frail veldt]

well theyre prob kir

not ho with gs

[glass mortar]

which runs PC and ghostly

[long barn]

Yes they are

[frail veldt]

also if they are ho with gs

they drop cto

they never drop pc afaik

[glass mortar]

HO cant do that

[long barn]

So you see my dilemma!

[lime lake]

answer is just play assa

[long barn]

Haha

[glass mortar]

dropping CtO is unhinged behavior ngl

i wouldnt even wanna play

[gaunt phoenix]

Kir 1fth is legit like 1% more overall

The people went kir 1fth cause zac propaganda

[frail veldt]

tru

[glass mortar]

i do think kir is more stables

[frail veldt]

Honestly I think HO non GS is way more stable of a build

[glass mortar]

u can force ur way out of really bad situations with suboptimal kir usage on important pulls

which HO cannot do

ho is just all gambling

[frail veldt]

eh

[lime lake]

french propaganda tainting my m+ builds

smh

[long barn]

Zac does a good job

[glass mortar]

the amount of times ive seen zac force a 4-5 buff on a big pull out of kiring a 2/3 good buffs

[long barn]

Making me believe I can be great

[glass mortar]

then instantly rolling

meanhilw HO woulda just gone 2 buff > 1 buff

[frail veldt]

HO isnt as much gamba imo cuz the supercharger value you get when spam rolling makes up a lot of the gap

[glass mortar]

it

doesnt

but it can

idk man when ur tank is like big pull time we have cds

[runic bough]

I've been enjoying kir haste on ho for faster trololspree but my overalls are lower than them haha

[glass mortar]

and u roll BT 3 times in a row as a 1 buff as HO

[frail veldt]

Also I was messing with some rtb rules to lower variance for HO

and you can sit on 4 buffs in subterfuge

[glass mortar]

u really arent being saved by supercharger

[frail veldt]

and not roll

and dps doesnt change

but stdev goes down by like 10%

[glass mortar]

yea i mean i sit on any 3 buff if i have RP/2 good buffs during crackshots ngl

especially in mass aoe

[frail veldt]

cto carries HO

but tbh

KiR does PISSSSS damage if you lowroll

[glass mortar]

ye which is why i think people running ctoless HO in keys r unhinged

[frail veldt]

I think HO's lows arent as low as KiR's*

even if HO's lows are more frequent

[glass mortar]

think thats the case for 1 fth but idk if its true for normal kir

and yea it is more frequent as HO

[slate plaza]

i run it

fuk it

especially in top

[frail veldt]

yeah 1fth can lowroll SO hard

its awful

when you have no adr up

it is tank spec

and were still at like 95% adr

[slate plaza]

!haste

[frail veldt]

so theres times where you can get giga fucked

[ornate heath]

Total stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush lowers your GCD based on it, down to 0.8s at 25% haste.

The KIR build wants 18-20% haste from rating, because its only haste buff is from Alacrity.

The HO build meets this requirement with 8-10% haste from rating because of Take 'em by Surprise, but the new HO + Supercharger build continues to like Haste just because of energy, so you will have to sim. Your sim may settle for KIR-levels of haste (~18%) or slightly lower.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use.
You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[glass mortar]

mewo i thought the dead mob bug was back we did a first pull in rookery

and i was trapped at like 6m dps

[frail veldt]

LOL

[glass mortar]

i was like ????

[frail veldt]

wait what happened then

[slate plaza]

The KIR build wants 18-20% haste from rating
Does this just mean i want 20% haste outside of stealth with no buffs

[glass mortar]

i didnt proc a single ace the whole pull

[frail veldt]

forget the cudgel?

ah rip

[glass mortar]

and my buffs were gm + bt > bt > bt > bt

not 1 cto proc

not one ace proc

[frail veldt]

hahahaha

[glass mortar]

i think i only double hit 3 spells the whole pack

[frail veldt]

Yeah I mean nothing saves that

[glass mortar]

2 ambushes and a SS

it was only a 10 so like, we obliterated the pack w/e

was just cringe

i was so confused until i saw BtE 50% crit rate

[frail veldt]

sad

[slate plaza]

whata re you guys sending dinar on this week

[lime lake]

nothing, we only have 2/3 this week

[glass mortar]

2/3rds of a weapon

[slate plaza]

wdym

w edont get 3 chips?

[glass mortar]

u get 1 chip a week brother

for the rest of the season until u have 9 total

[lime lake]

not unless 1+1=3

[glass mortar]

aka 3 dinar

[slate plaza]

oh shi

[glass mortar]

1 full dinar was only week 1

[slate plaza]

is this week 2 or three

[latent oak]

3

[glass mortar]

week 3

but week 1 was 3 tokens

[slate plaza]

if i missed a dinar can i catch it up

[glass mortar]

week 2 was 4th

[crisp condor]

NA folks who happen to know, is there still no catchup for Dinar quests? Some of my alts are languishing in obscurity even harder after I found that out this week

[slate plaza]

i missed week 2

[latent oak]

nope :)

[glass mortar]

there is currently no catchup in the game

🙂

[lime lake]

no if you missed dinar its joever

[slate plaza]

fuk

[latent oak]

even if u completed the quest and forgot to turn it in

ur behind 1 week

[glass mortar]

permanently behind

p e r m a n e n t l y

[slate plaza]

im only getting 2 dinar uses ig lol

[lime lake]

im sure they'll fix it in a month or two

[frail veldt]

oh rip

[lime lake]

[frail veldt]

def behind

cba

I also only have 6% raid buff rofl

[latent oak]

if ur eu make sure to turn in the quest before reset

[glass mortar]

p e r m a n a n t l y

[slate plaza]

i didnt turn it in man fuk

[subtle ginkgo]

is there a murlok rogue i should be looking to mirror my talents/stats off of? or one yall use?

[gaunt phoenix]

zac !

tomelvis

[glass mortar]

#outlaw-faq this guy is really good

[gaunt phoenix]

the goat !

[glass mortar]

id highly recommend his builds

truly the GOAT

[frail veldt]

but then youre stuck playing KiR

jk kirs the best

[slate plaza]

kir is hard mode for no reason in raid imo

[subtle ginkgo]

thats okay, im honestly less than a week in to outlaw - so im trying to learn all i can but sheesh

[slate plaza]

but is fun

[gaunt phoenix]

the top keys play a rather difficult build (KIR 1 FTH)

[frail veldt]

def play HO then

[slate plaza]

play ho to get used to the spec, then transition into kir

[frail veldt]

isnt zac wearing weird gear

[latent oak]

any knowers on the going rate for a m mugzee boost kill

[frail veldt]

haste shoulders

and HoC

what a madlad

[subtle ginkgo]

knowing that then, is the HO a different person to look at?

[tight kernel]

only 2 bloods for a full clear is wild

[hot olive]

he got 38% vers

[slate plaza]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[hot olive]

with druid buff and flask

[frail veldt]

tbh, its best to follow the gearing guide for stats

than it is to try to copy gear

outlaw aims to hit some requirements with stats

!haste

[ornate heath]

Total stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush lowers your GCD based on it, down to 0.8s at 25% haste.

The KIR build wants 18-20% haste from rating, because its only haste buff is from Alacrity.

The HO build meets this requirement with 8-10% haste from rating because of Take 'em by Surprise, but the new HO + Supercharger build continues to like Haste just because of energy, so you will have to sim. Your sim may settle for KIR-levels of haste (~18%) or slightly lower.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use.
You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[frail veldt]

so you dont want to search for specific gear but instead wear the highest ilvl you can that gets you to your haste req but also prioritizes vers

[subtle ginkgo]

so if im going to leran with HO, i just dropped my haste down to 21% - should i drop it a bunch more then for crit?

[frail veldt]

You'll notice a lot of outlaws mix and match pieces for that reason

21% is fine

[subtle ginkgo]

okay

[frail veldt]

crit is not great for us

vers is king

our best stat by far

as HO crit is okay but vers is still better

[glass mortar]

my gear is

[gaunt phoenix]

Everyone has like double vers over crit

[glass mortar]

so bad mewo

i need to drop like 4k crit for vers

681 ilvl barely able to touch 2.8m sim dps

[frail veldt]

yeah mines not great rn

[glass mortar]

☠️

[frail veldt]

leme see my sim 1 sec

[glass mortar]

the haste vers dungeon chest

would fix all my problems

all the problems in the world

[frail veldt]

I have that myth 🙂

[glass mortar]

if i can get that in my vault

[frail veldt]

but still shit

[glass mortar]

for the first time

[frail veldt]

I just got myth boots in vault

for catalyzer

thatll be nice

[glass mortar]

yea i cata'd mythic boots last week

crafted a neck to replace my pvp neck finally

rejigged all of my crafted gear to fix my haste

in total i gained 3 ilvl

and 0.2% sim dps

[frail veldt]

im cooked

[glass mortar]

thats almost 0.1% dps per ilvl

[frail veldt]

oh wait I have to put on my haste cloak during the day cuz im NE

[glass mortar]

!

[frail veldt]

I have more fucking crit than vers

[lost dagger]

how does tricks work with that So Tricky talent? are we just always redirecting our threat to our tricks target until we pick another one?

[glass mortar]

yes

[frail veldt]

ye

[subtle ginkgo]

seem to be okay where im at ilvl wise?

[lost dagger]

i feel like ive gotten aggro a couple times thinking i could just go ham

it buggy at all or maybe just operator error?

[glass mortar]

ur first attack from stealth can do damage and cause u to take a hit before the threat redirects its very wishy washy

this has always been the case for tricks tho

[slate plaza]

at what poitn is seforium worth using in raid

[glass mortar]

just wait for tank to at least body pull before hitting stuff, or evasion

[slate plaza]

on cleave bosses

[lost dagger]

if the tank isnt in combat

yeah

kk ty

thats huge QoL lol

[glass mortar]

the amount of dungeons where we've failed to wipe just because of perma tricks

its pretty great

me chasing down and finishing the pack as it runs towards the entrance of the dungeon after the tank releases

[crisp condor]

Only DPS you can carry your undergeared tank friend and not worry about ripping aggro and dying

[slate plaza]

!opener

[stuck sparrow]

nah hunter exists

[crisp condor]

Does Feign Death reset aggro or just pause it? Cuz misdirect isn't infinite and I'm talking bad tanks here

[glass mortar]

feign drops it, misdirect is tricks, just they dont have a permanent version

[runic bough]

The only good thing from trickster tree honestly

[glass mortar]

i mean coups a fine baseline mechanic

i wish theyd make it so u could continue to store up blades to a next coup with coup procced tho

would reduce some of the friction it can cause with vanish

[crisp condor]

Dumb question but I assume BTE does not get bonus damage from Surprising Strikes if if refunds combo points because that's technically Ace doing it not BTE?

[gaunt phoenix]

it doesnt

[crisp condor]

Shame, the wording seems handwaveable enough it might

[frail veldt]

Yeah I wanted that to be the case too

would be kinda cool

[random stirrup]

[frail veldt]

tempting

buzzerrrrrr

[hot olive]

bzzzzzzzz

[lime lake]

i think you should choose the trinket

[slate plaza]

=lucky

[runic bough]

Coup de grace now grants a .5% (stackable) dmg buff everytime it's used with a minimum of 5 combo points. Passive. Falls off after not in combat for more than 1 minute.

[slate plaza]

i only got whistle

[slate plaza]

huh

[glass mortar]

just random nonsense

[runic bough]

[random stirrup]

big socket on the other rogue

[gaunt phoenix]

2 rog

[lime lake]

gloves for transmog

ez choice

[mighty breach]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[civic zephyr]

keys

[coarse hull]

What is the sim settings for M+ by chance dung slice?

[glass mortar]

dslicer is fine yea

[brisk meadow]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[runic bough]

Does anyone have a wa to flash bf fell off

I seen that in shades video

HO my bf falls off and I still have moments where I'm in aoe and it fell off.

So I been only hitting one target

Then I'm lower than tank dmg

Granted when a good procs chain happens, bf doesn't fall off.

But when it does im not catching it in time

That's probably the reason my overalls drop below 4mil

When I keep bf up the entire key I'm at 4mils

[winged depot]

Is my UI okay? Any suggestions?
Also would like to know what the 1 ability is at the top so i can move it and also what the red marked abilities are (Bc I'm not sure what they are)

ignore my keybinds and action bar setup as its not done.

[latent oak]

do u know how to make basic wa's ryu

[runic bough]

Ye

[latent oak]

should be quite simple to make one

i can help u through it if u want

[runic bough]

Sure I'll check tonight when I get home

[runic bough]

The red bar is your rtb buffs

And usually it's only poisons that are popped up above the wa like that

[next wedge]

guys for an alt do u think i should just suck it up and play assassination or feral

outlaw otp

[runic bough]

Outlaw alt only if u want to learn high apm

Although killingapree lowers our apm when we use it

[next wedge]

just have 2 outlaws for fun

[subtle ginkgo]

imean i started rogue with outlaw, and everything else feels like mud after it.

[next wedge]

exactly

[glass mortar]

well both options u picked will probably feel glacial compared to outlaw so

feral is similar cadence to sin

sin scales closer to APM capped in aoe tho

feral doesnt really scale resource wise with aoe, not to the same level

[runic bough]

I would start as sub if I told myself about rogue. If u get good at sub, your safe for all content every expansion and season. Outlaw depends how the devs feel with tuning.

[next wedge]

i guess i do like ABC classes

but ranged casters are soooo boring

[subtle ginkgo]

isnt dumb ass, even with the buff?

[lime lake]

[runic bough]

Sin is good now, but sub is always good.

[next wedge]

i played sub in SL because the legendaries are fun

[runic bough]

Sub is like the main rogue spec that blizzard lets do all content

[next wedge]

i've only really paid attention since DF but i've never not seen sin being rogue meta for high end m+

ik outlaw was good in DF tho

[runic bough]

Sin wasn't big until end of df maybe

Sub is safe choice every expansion

[next wedge]

sub button bloat just feels bad to me

[runic bough]

Well I guess your a outlaw main then

[next wedge]

yea ofc

[runic bough]

Welcome to the club

We stucks here

[next wedge]

i go play ret

[clear basalt]

is there any catch up system for dinars?

[glass mortar]

not currently no

if u missed u missed

[subtle ginkgo]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[thorny crest]

Did we see any improvements/fixes to echoing void?

[runic bough]

No confirms yet

Maybe later people will have tested it by then

Would be nice if blizzard made patch notes right

[thorny crest]

agreed

[sharp hinge]

im sure even they dont know whats going on

[winged depot]

thanks!

[thorny crest]

guess ill keep popping twilight devastation. Love watching the big death beam do its thing

[sharp hinge]

same, its really the only one you know when its going off

[tight kernel]

Do we know if Echoing Void proc rate is better with greater?

[verbal fjord]

Stats looking sexy rn

and tmog aswell

[next wedge]

is that with a flask on?

34% is so crazy

[verbal fjord]

with vers flask y

without its like 31%

[west dirge]

unbuffed

[verbal fjord]

Dunno bout mastery thats the thing

[next wedge]

i gotta get someone to help me get my stats sexier

i'll send when im home from school maybe somebody can help me optimize

[sharp hinge]

just run topgear with all the gear in your bag

[glass mortar]

stats r not super complicated

get haste to 19-20%, get as much vers as possible

get a lil crit along the way

[frail veldt]

ilvl also

vers is good

but

[glass mortar]

sure

[hybrid crown]

Vers on every piece of gear, vers haste until 20%, vers crit for rest

[glass mortar]

im just talking about thinking about what ur "secondary ratio" should be

it doesnt rlly matter all that much

[frail veldt]

yeye

[glass mortar]

just stick to a haste level

personally id always recommend 19% ish because that works for HO ghostly and kir builds

u can always try to drop a bit of haste for crit or vers for the non ghostly HO builds later

but thats the best point to try to keep imo

cant wait till i can craft myself some engi bracers for the pure vers goodness

[sharp hinge]

lets delete the HO ghostly kit builds

[frail veldt]

im trying to get there

I have the stupid haste slanted ring

wicks gold loop or whatever

[glass mortar]

yea rings this season suck eggs

[frail veldt]

it technically mae my dps go up

[glass mortar]

only good one the whole season is OaB ring

[frail veldt]

from roulette champ track

[glass mortar]

havent seen a heavy vers one yet

[frail veldt]

but now I have SO much crit

yeah jewelry as a whole sucks this season for outlaw

[hybrid crown]

crit still has some value tho

[frail veldt]

barely

less so as KiR

[glass mortar]

im using pacemaker so crits value is in the poopoo

[sharp hinge]

tbh easier to save all the hero / myth track gear you get just to sort out later

[glass mortar]

its just like, rng normalization

its cringe

[hybrid crown]

I decided to do 16% haste for HO static on gear, haste flask up to 20 for KIR

[glass mortar]

yea i can only get haste flasking to be a gain for me if i can trade 100% of the stats id be turning the haste on gear into vers

which i cant do currently

😢

[frail veldt]

well you can

you just use a vers flask

lolol

[sharp hinge]

check the catalyst

sometimes swapping it out gives you the pref stats

[glass mortar]

only good cata pieces this season r boots and belt

well non tier cata pieces

[frail veldt]

yeah

[glass mortar]

and i already got that so

[frail veldt]

and belt is like even statted

[hybrid crown]

here is my stat weight sim as HO Supercharger trickster with GS

[frail veldt]

so its not even that great

[glass mortar]

ye belt isnt even great

[hybrid crown]

with 16% haste thats pretty good. haste is in a good spot

[frail veldt]

Yeah HO is different from KiR

cuz you ahve a lot more builder damage

so the crit dam bonus from trickster is higher value

also HO has lower RP uptime

so you can go past 20% crit and not lose as much value

[hybrid crown]

im going to run it again as KIR ST, haste flask

the prior sim was vers flask

[sharp hinge]

wicks golden loop is pretty good

[hybrid crown]

uh oh haste is very low on my list as KIR

[sharp hinge]

i love when people who dont play rogue, come to say things like this to make it seem like its not that bad

[hybrid crown]

I have 19.9% haste with haste flask tho

I guess I can see that now yeah crit lost a bit and vers gained a bit too

[fathom bramble]

imagine if casters couldn't cancel any cast longer than 3(base) seconds and were forced to just stand there waiting to die lol

[hybrid crown]

honestly they are close enough for me.

if I got a roulette ring tho

with crit vers

mmm

[glass mortar]

I mean vers is more then 10% stronger then crit in that sim

But yea its not like crit is terrible

Just optimally u want mega skewed towards vers

[vivid vessel]

@proven ocean washed up

[hot olive]

https://tenor.com/view/tom-and-jerry-gif-16390969084748958274

[hybrid crown]

I even have trashmasters

I had champ roulette with big vers

But crafted 681 beat it out

So skewed is my best DPS option I guess

[proven ocean]

?

half those keys are with our team

[vivid vessel]

[proven ocean]

you dont have to be an asshole about it

[vivid vessel]

wdym

im just joking with you

you do that all the time

[proven ocean]

[vivid vessel]

[raven condor]

lets fucken go.

[sharp hinge]

no one cares about EU

beans for breakfast having people, YOU DONT NEED TO EAT LIKE THE GERMANS ARE FLYING OVERHEAD ANYMORE

[lime lake]

[vivid vessel]

@proven ocean

i think

feral

is the most broken spec ever in ws

thoughts ?

or maybe assa does that aswell idk

feral just solos first pack aswell

its quite cool

like he did 30 mil

[raven condor]

holy shit

bigdam

[violet ferry]

cat iz for fite

[white marten]

Nerf feral

[sharp hinge]

the true 4 button spec

[violet ferry]

1. Mangle
2. Ferocious Bite
3. Idk catnip sniff?
4. Profit

[white marten]

Does feral have to spread Dots like assa?

[upper hawk]

they can rake as filler and it hits 2 mobs at a time. but primal wrath puts rip on everything with one press

but not really. not on big pulls

[white marten]

Interesting

[hollow portal]

It was about time the top 1 rogue became an outlaw player again, just saying :c

Now I'll say that the top 1 is outlaw so they invite me. xd

[upper hawk]

that 30 mil opener is a little rng though. during berserk builders have like a 25% chance to proc ravage, and that guy had 4 ravage procs in a row to finish berserk after convoke. basically like getting ace up your sleeves proc 6 times in a row

[white marten]

Feels good when that happens

[subtle ginkgo]

what makes fate so much worse than trick?

[glass mortar]

It's severaly undertuned in aoe

The trickster aoe node has always been stacked tho fwiw

[random stirrup]

how is fatebound ever going to compete in aoe when a node like this exists

[glass mortar]

Trickster simmed ahead of fatebound in aoe last season too

It was just bad st and not far enough ahead for anyone to care

A little ahead at 8 targets but u need to play kspree

🤮

[frail veldt]

it wont

Honestly as much as KS is dogshit, fatebound is also dogshit

[subtle ginkgo]

my dps is hot ass. frustrated for sure.

[sharp hinge]

https://tenor.com/view/douchebag-turdsandwhich-debate-gif-13010138

[haughty wigeon]

nah feral is just sleeper strong

as per usual

boomie keeping the cats down

[weary fog]

when the kitty does like, 25 mil in first room of brew

[white marten]

Aoe interrupt and starfall too strongk

[vapid sundial]

Nah

most druids suck with that ability

they throw it out at the worst time

[subtle field]

https://www.twitch.tv/zac__________________/clip/CloudySecretiveOstrichResidentSleeper-P1wqZ9uc_PydufL2

[subtle field]

How do you survive that?

[vivid vessel]

I ks ?

@fathom bramble

btw

you were curious about it

[subtle field]

Yeah why dont die?

[vivid vessel]

10% dot

i died after

from the same shit

so

[subtle field]

ah, lol

But i thought that shit just oneshots you

[vapid sundial]

zac is so greedy my lord

[vivid vessel]

barely

[vapid sundial]

hahahaha

[vivid vessel]

with feint

its ok

[daring oxide]

you champion

[subtle field]

Cool.

I see alot of outlaws just kinda send ks and survive. Like sending ks when orbs are stacked on boss, on last boss of workshop

They just know how to finesse it ig

[random stirrup]

whats the worst that could happen

[lime lake]

they have the lord at their side

repent and you too can ks

[subtle field]

Death -> adr on full cd and no buffs 😦

But its a gambling spec, ig that means gambling with life

Gotta respect it

[reef forge]

if you have cloak you can afford to just full send and if you get a 20% tick then you just play safer after lol

[fathom bramble]

well I guess that's one way to KS on that boss

[vivid vessel]

if you continue a bit into the boss

you can see me die the exact same way

[late swallow]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/no-catch-up-for-puzzling-cartel-chips-only-one-dinar-quest-per-week-377056?utm_source=discord-webhook

[vivid vessel]

i greeded one gcd too much without adr

[late swallow]

the seethe in the comments

[raven condor]

Idk it's kinda valid, they do retroactive catchup for everything else, why should dinars be different

So long as it's not putting people ahead like

very un-"turbo boost" of them

[silk stirrup]

You always end up where you started and certain bosses with static hitboxes have a single spot for KS, so it's rather easy to predict

[raven condor]

Unless it's the lich boss in top, where you can get clipped by the orbs multiple times, and end with a dot the size of greenland

[tight kernel]

For Vision, only giving 2 bloods for hardest zone. So is the tech to just clear hard zone for quest then worry about full clear later

[glass mortar]

Don't u get bloods for every zone boss chest

[dense bolt]

Goodnight

[silk stirrup]

You can predict it to a certain extent, if you start it right at the spot where the orb just passed. Getting one or two hits it's fine, especially if you evasion + feint before sending

[craggy barn]

bruh no catchup???

wtf

[silk stirrup]

Honestly at the start it was rough but I haven't died to KS in a long time now

[craggy barn]

zac fucking trolled me

making me go to france

now i miss out on dinar

[silk stirrup]

You won't miss out, it will just take you longer to get them

[craggy barn]

i miss out

its over

fucking zac

gdi

[lime lake]

at least you're officially french now

[craggy barn]

yea

i guess so

hon hon baguette

[glass mortar]

P e r m a n e n t l y behind

[craggy barn]

french tacos

[glass mortar]

Classic French bait

[craggy barn]

classic

[pliant wave]

If I use Feint and then Killing Spree, will the damage that's already reduced by 20% and converted into a DoT be further reduced by another 20% from Feint?

[copper radish]

Did god bless everyone’s vaults today

Bout to say some prayers and open mine lol

[glass mortar]

No

It's only reduced once

[pliant wave]

thx

[long barn]

What about feinting the dot after KS?

[gaunt phoenix]

doesnt work

feint before

[pliant wave]

From what I've checked, the DoT damage from KS doesn't seem to be reducible by any means

[glass mortar]

Ye just cloakable

[remote tangle]

is there a reason i dont see honey buzzer on any of the top rogues for M+? is the difference just that low or is the forced movement too punishing

[bright crane]

Cause it’s annoying to use

And it’s hardly better than another other trinket to justify the silly dash

[wintry solar]

Oh god

I'm permanently behind

I fucked up

[quaint loom]

is echoing void still bugged

[glass mortar]

isnt even better yea

its identical dps wise to vexie trinket

[gaunt phoenix]

as far as i know

[glass mortar]

but vexie doesnt dash u

[quaint loom]

cheers

void ritual it is

[dawn shoal]

We know if echoing is fixed for greaters now?

[glass mortar]

brother read up 3 messages

[dawn shoal]

Bet, Dev it is

[ruby mauve]

thrall resets every single time on vanish in horriffic visions

i hate this class sometimes

[cinder oxide]

assuming theyre fixed, just bring soridormi and nothing will reset

[ruby mauve]

true did not consider they would maybe fix that alr

indie studio

ty

[copper radish]

another week and still not even a heroic level helm.....

[cinder oxide]

anything for u kitten

[pliant wave]

@vivid vessel, on your stream, did you just mute Discord sounds, or are you actually not using voice chat to communicate?

[vivid vessel]

we arent in voice no

[winged depot]

I know this is a dumb subjective question but what finger do you use to click on 1, 2, 3, 4 keybinds?
It feels a bit awkward to spam 1 for me idk

[tacit chasm]

yo guys how do you do the weaponswap with the Nightfall Curseblade's Cudgel or do you just switch manuel for bosses?

[cinder relic]

Use vanish in between ps

[gaunt phoenix]

finger?

[glass mortar]

use the macro in the pins

[gaunt phoenix]

looks like 1 is ring finger, 2 is middle finger, 3-4 is index

[winged depot]

ohkay ya same

Do u put ur builders on them?

[peak dock]

guys is there any way to kill thrall solo and prevent this motherfucker from reset everytime i fucking vanish?

[gaunt phoenix]

1 ss/ambush, 2 dispatch, 3 ps, 4 bte, 5 trinket (lol), 6 bf

[glass mortar]

not 100% no

if u make sure u have an attack firing as u vanish (i macro bte for open world stuff, U can also try to do it mid PS) it can make it happen much less often

i think if u want 100% non fail rate u need to run with the npc

[winged depot]

wdym with ss/ambush? is it just Siinister Striike or wat is ambush :3

or does the aiblitiy change

[peak dock]

i dunno why blizzard keeps adding "helping npcs" if every helping npc is gonna be a ninjapulling shitshow

[glass mortar]

SS turns into ambush when ambush procs for HO builds

and then in stealth that bind will be ambush

[latent oak]

luckily they made the npc in visons so bad that u are hurting urself by taking them

so u can do it solo in peace

imagine how much more fun delves would be without bran

[glass mortar]

zero fun

[latent oak]

way more fun

[glass mortar]

is the npc really that bad

[peak dock]

if i do thrall with no npc it resets in every vanish

[glass mortar]

nah having bosses reset at 10% hp because u did ur rotation but had an attack go off 0.1s too late after pressing vanish

isnt fun

[peak dock]

[glass mortar]

even if it only happens 10% of the time

🙂

[latent oak]

press vanish while ur mid pistol shot

[gaunt phoenix]

ss turns into ambush during audacity

[glass mortar]

can still happen

nothing is 100%

[latent oak]

meant as reply to meshasho

[gaunt phoenix]

also on stealth bar i replace ss with ambush

!ambush

[ornate heath]

It is possible to use a macro to cast Ambush during Stealth/Audacity and Sinister Strike otherwise, instead of using the stealth bar:
/cast [known: Hidden Opportunity, bonusbar:1] Ambush ; Sinister Strike
*This is most useful to swap between HO and KIR builds without changing keybinds.
Stance swap delay is, for now, not an issue since we don't want to cast vanish into ambush anymore.

[gaunt phoenix]

or do this

[glass mortar]

in delves its w/e it resets ur cds and u just go again

but in timelimited content like visions

[latent oak]

id legit prefer bosses randomly resetting than having bran

just tilts me

[glass mortar]

thats crazy

idk how people have brann pull stuff

i feel like they just dont know how he works

[latent oak]

he doesnt pull stuff for me

[ruby mauve]

much easier with soradami tyvm

[glass mortar]

ye gunna try with sora when i get home

tired of endboss resets when im trying to get 4 masks done

can brick a whole run

[gaunt phoenix]

this is greater echoing void

still looks more like 10rppm

[latent oak]

do they guarantee collapse when the mob dies

[glass mortar]

the stacks are on u not a mob

[gaunt phoenix]

No the stacks are on you

[glass mortar]

so no

[latent oak]

oh its not like the sp talent

i see

[winged depot]

Does it turn SS iinto Ambush automatically during audacity or is that what the macro is for?

[glass mortar]

it automatically changes

[winged depot]

thanks

[gaunt phoenix]

the macro is to turn SS into Ambush during Stealth

which you can do with the stealth bar

or macro

[glass mortar]

WRONG CHEST BLIZZARD

MY EMOTIONS R BEING TOYED WITH

[winged depot]

So putting Ambush on the SS keybiind on the stealth bar is good enough?

[fluid meadow]

is that worth? almost 50% plus hp to mobs

[gaunt phoenix]

Yes

[glass mortar]

idk man anything to avoid having bosses reset sounds worth in my book

[gaunt phoenix]

but if you play the KIR build you will have to change that keybind because it does not ambush

the macro lets you play both builds without changing keybinds

[winged depot]

kay ty, sorry for the noob questions

Whats the difference between the two builds?

I've yet to read the wowhead guiide x_x

[gaunt phoenix]

The HO build is way easier, single target/lower target favored, flexible with haste

The KIR build is harder, favored in big pulls, strictly wants 19% haste

[winged depot]

so is it HO in raid & KIR in M+?

[gaunt phoenix]

no, overall they are similar, you can play both everywhere

I don't think you should play KIR unless you "get" outlaw and want to push yourself

[frank finch]

ok question

is echoing void fixed? its smmin alot higher

[gaunt phoenix]

It's not fixed

It oversims

[frank finch]

ty king

[gaunt phoenix]

We are still gushers or devvers

[craggy barn]

solo, how are u

[winged depot]

I play outlaw bc i i wanna push myself x_x

[gaunt phoenix]

Awful

[vapid sundial]

can u make me gush

[craggy barn]

sadge

[gaunt phoenix]

No

[vapid sundial]

🫃

[copper radish]

675 ilvl achievement unlocked

[gaunt phoenix]

gamer

[copper radish]

feel like a big boy

[vapid sundial]

gz

time for a new game

gg

[copper radish]

still no heroic level helm lmao

if this tier dont drop or i dont win a curio im done lol

[next wedge]

all i got with vault is myth belt

which is nice but we're replacing on patch anyways

[craggy barn]

i need someone to open my vault

gdi

[runic bough]

Yeah me too

[copper radish]

i got mythic legs but i cant convert to tier cause im waiting for that heroic track helm or tier to drop then i can convert. almost at one-eye on heroic lol

[runic bough]

How much do vault openers cost these days

[craggy barn]

3.50

blizz bucks

[runic bough]

Zomb r u on vacation yet

[wintry solar]

Blizz bucks lol

[copper radish]

wait can i buy vault slots or something

[craggy barn]

ive been on vacay

lol

[runic bough]

I'll open ur vault

[craggy barn]

been out for like 4days

[next wedge]

idk where to find more vers

[craggy barn]

id prefer if u werent near my vault ryu

ur luck isnt worth it

craft a neck

[clear tulip]

could also craft another ring

[runic bough]

My luck is bad on rotation but my vaults have given me new mythic slots so far

[next wedge]

i have avoidance on both neck and ring 😭

oh sorry avoidance on neck leech on ring

[runic bough]

Solo typing a long new pin guys

[craggy barn]

imagine if u could craft tert

[next wedge]

that would be so op

[runic bough]

Tert?

[craggy barn]

tertiaries

[random stirrup]

craft neck?

crit so stinky

[next wedge]

i thought crit was just a little worse than vers

[craggy barn]

not really

[random stirrup]

as HO ye but looking at ur haste ur playing kir right

[craggy barn]

not anymore

[glass mortar]

ghostly HO builds want like kir levels of haste

[gaunt phoenix]

Corruptions part 4

Greater corruptions are released. Echoing Void proc rate still looks bugged/about half as much as expected.

Our choices are still:

Twilight Devastation, good single target and aoe, high variance on proc rate, can pull mobs if it travels into them

Gushing Wounds, good single target, doesn't aoe but still good enough in keys, safe and consistent option

Echoing Void will oversim by default, here are sims with manually adjusted proc rate: (ST, Dslice)

[random stirrup]

idk thought it was like 15-17

[next wedge]

im just gonna go see what zac has equipped

i follow him like a cult leader

[craggy barn]

lol

[runic bough]

Hmm

What's the radius on twilight

I think I'm gonna try it

Gushing doesn't gush for shit

[craggy barn]

just play it

[glass mortar]

its not a radius it shoots forward a laser

[craggy barn]

ull see it

[glass mortar]

that flies in front of u

it goes like 15 yards or something

[runic bough]

Lol oh shit

[clear tulip]

it does a lil wiggle wiggle

[craggy barn]

use it

give in

[glass mortar]

yea its more of a cone the animation wiggles back and forth

[gaunt phoenix]

the laser itself is 3 yards but it travels forward for 4 seconds

[keen belfry]

?

unlucky eh?

[glass mortar]

get flamestruck

[craggy barn]

skill issue

[glass mortar]

smh

a mage should know better

??

literally your own spell

icant

[keen belfry]

spellsteal

[glass mortar]

counterspell? firward?

[craggy barn]

literally 2 casts werent stopped

[glass mortar]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1166809459901878363.gif?size=128&quality=lossless

[next wedge]

this fucker has a myth roulette wheel

i need to get into a mythic raiding guild ffs

[clear tulip]

nah you'll just end up lowrolling the stats when it pops in your vault.. like mine

[next wedge]

he has that except reversed

[glass mortar]

its ok just dump crit off literally every other piece of gear

and thats a good ring

i mean its a good ring either way

[runic bough]

Its okay guys

[glass mortar]

i dont think the vers gear is aquirable to make that template of it bis tho

[runic bough]

There's a new jc craft to reverse jewelry stats

[next wedge]

seems like ur telling a lie

[glass mortar]

what does reverse jewlery stats mean

if u reversed them theyd be the same

they are a 50/50 split

[runic bough]

Its not a lie if it's real in my imagination

[next wedge]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-441666516964176409

[runic bough]

[azure vortex]

Timed 16 rookery with 10 parse, How far can I get boosted?

[next wedge]

10 parse is what

3m overall

[azure vortex]

~3.4 as i remember

I have no ide what I'm doing

[runic bough]

[glass mortar]

did you properly commit war crimes on the civilians in the bottom room using cudgel

[runic bough]

16 rook just mashing buttons nice

[glass mortar]

ngl when my tank mega pulls them i will 1-2 cp kspree just so i can vanish faster

to proc cudgel multiple times

[hasty warren]

almost

[glass mortar]

when he pulls 20 civilians onto an elite

[clear tulip]

recrafting + switching gems + enchants it sim'd as a dps loss

[next wedge]

my tanks make me violent chaining onto bosses

i hate that shit

[clear tulip]

will yoink it for showing higher ilvl when queueing for M+

[hasty warren]

ye it gives less vers than dfc one xd

[next wedge]

should i run dslice in topgear too

[glass mortar]

ye thats fine

[light fossil]

should crafted ring be hastevers or crit vers

[clear tulip]

xd

[light fossil]

if i have 10k haste already? 15%

[clear tulip]

sim it. For me i have one crit/vers one haste/vers

[next wedge]

see what sims better

[gaunt phoenix]

its awkward

[hasty warren]

well

[runic bough]

Two of three jewelry has to be haste for you to reach the threshold

[gaunt phoenix]

well 15% + haste flask

[hasty warren]

yo solo and ryu

[gaunt phoenix]

is enough for kir

[hasty warren]

hiw u're doing ?

[gaunt phoenix]

awful

[runic bough]

Yo Mr elfi

I'm at work and it's hot. Sweating weather is here.

I love cold weather means no sweating

[next wedge]

cold weather means its winter which means it gets dark at 4:30 which means i want to die

[hasty warren]

same it's starting getting kinda hot

[hasty warren]

bruh U live in Norway or what

[next wedge]

no just northern US

[fluid meadow]

possible to restore logs? what can cause this sometimes to not included for the dungeon and splitting

[hasty warren]

Oh it's the same here ?

idk it was this up on the map

[next wedge]

daylight savings makes it worse than it should be

[frail veldt]

not necessarily

if this is one of your rings then your neck and other ring can be crit/vers

[next wedge]

yea thats what i got and only 1 piece has haste

i got 19% with that

[runic bough]

Shit

Lucky guys

[glass mortar]

bro this haste affix in first zone of oggrimar visions

is so dogshit on law

either ur gcd is so fast its literally impossible to react to procs or its so slow u can barely get 3 abilities in a crackshot window

hate this kinda stuff

[runic bough]

If our gcd was lower it would be even funner

[glass mortar]

im pretty sure it is lower

its not actual haste its like a direct mod to gcd speed

pretty sure i have like a 0.5s gcd when im under the amp version

[runic bough]

I could go faster

[glass mortar]

which means my gcd is done as my ace proc sound effect is going off

[runic bough]

How would we visualize our gcd

I dont have a gcd tracker hmmm

[glass mortar]

does zac share his cursor wa

do i need to subscribe to his onlyfangs to get it

@vivid vessel

[runic bough]

It is nice

[vivid vessel]

its legit first result on wagiop

when you type cursor gcd

idk

nothing special

[glass mortar]

it is

wait doesnt urs spin with the gcd tho

the one on wago doesnt

[vivid vessel]

ye

i mean if you write gcd

[glass mortar]

did u add that

[vivid vessel]

im pretty sure

it will spin

with gcd

:)

[prisma yarrow]

YO LOOK what i found 😄

[vivid vessel]

third result mb

no wya you even tried weran !

[deep cedar]

hey zac qiock question about your rogue UI when i import it my fps drops by like 30 is that normal? and is there any way i could fix that?

[glass mortar]

i dont see it

wtf

regionlocked wa????