outlaw

[vivid vessel]

biased

as i said

[frail veldt]

long kidney feels great sometimes

on a problematic mob

[vivid vessel]

ho is the build with overloaded resrouces gen

but guy likes it

so he mentions kir??? instead

[zealous plinth]

Kidney just costs to much imo, gcd + cp

[frail veldt]

daddy chill

[zealous plinth]

Talking about pve

[vivid vessel]

a kidney is like

[haughty wigeon]

its time to change my pfp

[vivid vessel]

4 gcd on average prolly

[frail veldt]

eh it doesnt feel too bad when used outside of crackshot

[rotund pulsar]

a singular gcd and cp's when you have infinite???

[vivid vessel]

its crazy

[frail veldt]

cuz a dispatch does piss damage anyway

so who cares

still counts for cdr

[rotund pulsar]

so you wwant your 9 second stun to be off gcd

and free?

LMAOO

[vivid vessel]

Ye?

It's trash anywya

[haughty wigeon]

ya that would be ridic

[runic bough]

+14 workshop wish me luck guys

[haughty wigeon]

gl

[runic bough]

👀

[vivid vessel]

Other stuns are free as well

[frail veldt]

tough one for ks

[rotund pulsar]

ragebait used to be believable

[weary fog]

dont blow up

[rotund pulsar]

dungeon design is trash

not kidney

💯

[zealous plinth]

Just Not a 8second stun

[frail veldt]

tbh kidney should be aoe with the blind aoe talent

but be shorter duration

[rotund pulsar]

fuck no

[frail veldt]

fuck yes

[rotund pulsar]

bro

every class

doesn't need

the same

util

in this game

just revert the kick change

[frail veldt]

you know I would agree

utnil blizz

doubled down

[zealous plinth]

Shorter duration and free

[rotund pulsar]

and we're fine

[vivid vessel]

then i would be forced to press it on cd

[frail veldt]

on mob casts not getting interupted by cc

so fuck them

[vivid vessel]

rather cut my balls offf

[zealous plinth]

Like every other specs stuns

[runic bough]

can someone check my realm rank

[frail veldt]

I STRONGLY believe that blizz fucked up witht he cc change

[opaque jackal]

I'd be more in favor of a more thematical ability like an AoE Between the Eye stun that goes on a cooldown

[frail veldt]

going into TWW

[azure vortex]

Wdym bro? You say my outlaw cannot identify as windwalker?

[runic bough]

where do i check realm rank

[rotund pulsar]

bro aoe kidney sounds

[frail veldt]

I wish they would have kept it so that cc interupts casts but removed aoe cc from a lot of specs

INSTEAD

[vivid vessel]

I just don't know why kidney cost cps tbh

[hardy thicket]

Just make kidney a baseline stun that doesnt cost energy or cp

[vivid vessel]

Thats all

[frail veldt]

they make so many fucking casts

[vivid vessel]

It shouldn't

[frail veldt]

didnt sub have it

in DF

[rotund pulsar]

it's the tradeoff of having the stun last so long

[azure vortex]

I use cheap shot because its cheap

[rotund pulsar]

otherwise they'd just nerf the duration of the stun

[vivid vessel]

which is useless anywya

[frail veldt]

kdieny only costs 1 cp if you want it to

so

jsut do that

[zealous plinth]

But you don’t Need that in pve

[vivid vessel]

they can nerf it i couldnt care less about it

[rotund pulsar]

it's not useless

[vivid vessel]

Bro

The timing

Of a kidney

Cause it's linked to cp

[frail veldt]

bro

ignore the cp

[rotund pulsar]

9 seconds is basically infinity

[frail veldt]

just press it

[vivid vessel]

Makes it the most annoying shit in the planet

[zealous plinth]

You mostly can’t at the Right timing if you wait for 1 cp

[frail veldt]

pretend it doesnt cost

[vivid vessel]

I can see you guys don't play keys

[azure vortex]

Bro whenever I trow kidney, the mob is stun drd and kidney doesnt go off

[frail veldt]

if I need to kidney

[rotund pulsar]

i do play keys

[frail veldt]

I just press it

[vivid vessel]

I can see you don't play keys

[frail veldt]

I dont check cps

[vivid vessel]

My guy

[rotund pulsar]

i don't pres kidney in keys tf

but i also play like

[vivid vessel]

It's obvious

[rotund pulsar]

everything else

[opaque jackal]

It's gonna most likely go on DR anyways is what @frail veldt is saying

[vivid vessel]

I wanna kidney at the end of a cast

[frail veldt]

Im just saying it serves the same job usually

[zealous plinth]

At least I’m with you zac 🤣

[vivid vessel]

But I'm the mercy of random cp gen

[rotund pulsar]

kir player crying about cp gen

[vivid vessel]

And killing spree

And crackshot

[rotund pulsar]

bro press blade flurry

[vivid vessel]

Stfu I won't get baited

[hardy thicket]

These trolls man tf

[haughty wigeon]

idk

[hardy thicket]

Aligning it with any other ST stun and just remove CP cost

[rotund pulsar]

this you?

[haughty wigeon]

very strange week

[rotund pulsar]

bro even took out the energy cost

fuck it

[zealous plinth]

This

[haughty wigeon]

cause ive been agreeing with zac for most of it

[cedar kernel]

gm brothers

[haughty wigeon]

kidney should cost no cp

cause

[rotund pulsar]

zac is the only person in this server with good opinions

[cedar kernel]

[haughty wigeon]

other spec stuns dont cost their resource

[rotund pulsar]

if you're regularly disagreeing with him

you're wrong

[vivid vessel]

real

[opaque jackal]

glazers

[cedar kernel]

[wintry solar]

yeah work that shaft. dont forget the balls

[hardy thicket]

Yes problem?

[haughty wigeon]

more like a clash of different idologies of spec direction

[vivid vessel]

this guy is factually correct

[rotund pulsar]

🤡

[haughty wigeon]

WHY IS MY PFP MORE YELLOW THAN IT IS ORIGINALLY?

[random stirrup]

the cp cost is kind of annoying though

[haughty wigeon]

brb

[zealous plinth]

• spending a gcd in crackshot feels awkward too

[haughty wigeon]

but ya

[opaque jackal]

LMAO

[random stirrup]

if you dont have a high cp gen fast builder and your stun comes up when youre low cp you're kinda cooked

[zealous plinth]

You Are in crackshot and need cc -> rip

[haughty wigeon]

other spec main stuns dont cost to much compared to outlaw

[vivid vessel]

i bet kidney and cheap arent on adr list

[rotund pulsar]

a choice in life between saying a guy has good opinions or being the guy that thinks blizzard is removing all buff tracking from the game

choose wisely

[vivid vessel]

i should check

[haughty wigeon]

mentioning ret again cause ya know

[hardy thicket]

Having to use a GCD to stun is cost trade off enough the way Outlaw plays anyways

[vivid vessel]

feels like infinite long gcd

[haughty wigeon]

hammer of justice costs nothing

and it lasts a long time

havoc stun costs fury

[prisma yarrow]

How far behind is ho compare to kir in m+. ?

[haughty wigeon]

but that resource isnt annoying like cp

[rotund pulsar]

5% in big pulls?

[vivid vessel]

thats just energy

[haughty wigeon]

ya basically

[opaque jackal]

Or what? I can't have an opinion on what can ruin gameplay sooner or later if it can't be tracked. I will chose wisely what're you gonna do about it? Nothing.

[haughty wigeon]

make kidney shot costs energy only and gg poroblem kinda fixed

[vivid vessel]

The warrior one cost nothing as well right

[rotund pulsar]

wrong and strong

huge

[haughty wigeon]

your suggestion on fixing this was silly

and unrealistic

[haughty wigeon]

i think so

[vivid vessel]

GUYS

[haughty wigeon]

stormbolt right?

[vivid vessel]

STOP FIGHTING

outlaw is great

[vivid vine]

every stun atleast costs a gcd i believe

[vivid vessel]

!

[rotund pulsar]

i love outlaw! :-)

(except just rework the entire spec apparently xdd)

[lime lake]

[rotund pulsar]

too much resources?

too much sugar

cba

[vivid vessel]

Shouldn't be the case imo, utility/defensives/ movement cds, all should be out of GCD, cause that's basically qol only, you don't actually lose damage from pressing these stuffs it just feels bad

[opaque jackal]

It has issues and thinking it doesn't now is crazy

[vivid vessel]

I'm not losing damage from pressing kidney 10 times a key

But it still feels bad

[zealous plinth]

Imo they only need change KS and kidney

[vivid vessel]

All these stuffs imo should be off GCD

[opaque oxide]

Im pretty sure its a pvp issue

[vivid vessel]

Ye I know

[wintry solar]

keep at it, he might return the favor >.>

[rotund pulsar]

you can have like - a positive feeling about something in the game tied to like

[vivid vessel]

Pvp ruining the game

[rotund pulsar]

utility

[opaque oxide]

Based

[vivid vessel]

Again and again

[vivid vessel]

wdym

[rotund pulsar]

like pressing kidney can feel good because it stuns a mob for 9 seconds

[vivid vessel]

ye

[rotund pulsar]

it doesn't have to be super overloaded no enery cost no cd no cp cost

etc.

[vivid vine]

i do agree that defensives being off the gcd would be nice but yeah stuns would be problematic for pvp ( i guess defensives aswell kek)

[vivid vessel]

I mean idk

Things that aren't part of your damaging rotation

[rotund pulsar]

defensives are off the gcd

[vivid vessel]

Should just be off GCD, cost nothing imo

Look at rogue defs

They feel great to press

Cause they are off GCD cost nothing

[rotund pulsar]

well - idk just all seems like it's opportunity cost

[opaque jackal]

Feint does

[vivid vessel]

Look at our movement abilities

Same shit

[opaque jackal]

wtf you on about

[rotund pulsar]

like at any decision point in the game

[vivid vessel]

Stop yapping I'm talking with the adults here

[rotund pulsar]

you just get the choose max damage everytime

which is not as cool as like -

do i do more damage here

or defensive

or etc.

now there's obvioujsly a line

[opaque jackal]

tough guy alert

[vivid vessel]

I mean I don't see how it isn't cool to just send everything off GCD

[rotund pulsar]

like if cloak and evasion were on gcd it's cooked

[rotund pulsar]

i mean it would probably be fun

[haughty wigeon]

i mean

[vivid vessel]

Ye that's my point lol

You go to play other specs

[haughty wigeon]

i think kidney just needs to cost energy

like idk

[frail veldt]

I think it feels bad to have too much off gcd

[haughty wigeon]

20 energy

[vivid vessel]

And they have defensives on the gcds

[rotund pulsar]

but i think kidney is fine

[vivid vine]

didn't they start putting gcd's on shit just to slow the game down?

[frail veldt]

makes apm feel cluttered

[vivid vessel]

And you just don't wanna press them anymore

[haughty wigeon]

it shouldnt be off the gcd

[rotund pulsar]

and then you die

[frail veldt]

I do think utility should generally be off gcd

[vivid vessel]

Not when it's utility tho?

[haughty wigeon]

we cant make everything off the gcd cause that causes another issue

[opaque jackal]

go change your picture some more

[frail veldt]

yeah I agree

[vivid vessel]

When it's DPS I agree

[frail veldt]

blind should be off gcd

[hollow temple]

you guys are fuckin deep fried today eh?

[vivid vessel]

Trickz

[haughty wigeon]

hi trickz

am i in trouble?

[rotund pulsar]

aoe blind is ass to press (feelings wise)

[vivid vessel]

What would happen to pvp

[hasty warren]

Hello there

[frail veldt]

I do think that they care about pvp when thinking about cc changes though

[vivid vessel]

If every utility thing was off GCD

[frail veldt]

it would be very problematic

[civic void]

It's ragebait monday get in here

[vivid vessel]

Like ccs defs etc

[frail veldt]

defensives are for the most part

off gcd

[vivid vessel]

@hollow temple answer now !

[frail veldt]

on almost all specs

[hollow temple]

zac

[vivid vessel]

mage has some on gcd i believe

[hollow temple]

stop being dumby

[frail veldt]

not really

block, alter, greater invis

all off gcd

[vivid vessel]

really

[rotund pulsar]

every utility off the gcd is fried 💀 making decisions aroung how to spend your next gcd is like

a part of the game

[vivid vessel]

i tought they were on gcd

[frail veldt]

yeah p much all defensives are off gcd

[rotund pulsar]

and picking damage eveyr single time

[vivid vessel]

Bro

I love having

To afk

4 sec

To make sure

[frail veldt]

warlock wall and dark pact are off gcd

[vivid vessel]

I can press my blind

At the right timing

[opaque jackal]

It's not with Ice Cold as a def

[hollow temple]

guys

[vivid vessel]

Stupid ass cringe on GCD stops

[rotund pulsar]

okay the blind does feel

horrible

[haughty wigeon]

trickz

[rotund pulsar]

but just remove aoe blind

[hollow temple]

remove GCD from game !

[haughty wigeon]

i think

[frail veldt]

LOL

[rotund pulsar]

shit makes no sense

[hollow temple]

GCD bad !

[haughty wigeon]

i need to change my pfp one more

time

[vivid vessel]

It's the same as every stop tho wdym xd

[haughty wigeon]

[vivid vessel]

Be serious we are having a serious conversation

[rotund pulsar]

eh , is it ?

[vivid vessel]

Your pvp mind can't comprehend it tho I understand

[hollow temple]

let me AHK every spell of my rotation in .3 seconds

[vivid vessel]

How is it different

[frail veldt]

cc off gcd wouldnt be very healthy for pvp

[vivid vessel]

Fuck pvp

[rotund pulsar]

idk i'm thinking - i think you're right that they all kinda feel ass

[vivid vessel]

I HATE PVP RUINING MY PVE GAME

[rotund pulsar]

but 1. i think that's fine

[frail veldt]

eh fuck having to cc in pve tbh

[rotund pulsar]

i think i just also only think in terms of doing the most damage

[frail veldt]

worst part of pve

[rotund pulsar]

all the time

but i don't think that's good

[frail veldt]

is rotating stops

[rotund pulsar]

compared to like what i said which is

[opaque jackal]

agreed

[frail veldt]

just remove all cc from pve

[rotund pulsar]

you should have different options on how to spend your gcd

[frail veldt]

fixed

only kicks

[opaque jackal]

agreed

[vivid vessel]

why

[rotund pulsar]

yeah cause i don't really think anyone enjoys pressing their stops in the current version of m+

[vivid vessel]

you arent changing your decision of pressing a cc here or not

[hollow temple]

[rotund pulsar]

but back way back i honestly was mroe fine with it

like pressing chaos nova on a dh felt powerful enough

[vivid vessel]

you are just making the decision of, am i sacrificing damage or not (do i feel like shit or not)

[rotund pulsar]

to where it was fine that it cost a gcd

now it's like

just 1 of 1000 aoe stops

[rotund pulsar]

well that's not the binary in that case

[frail veldt]

I think youre just a gcd addict cuz you re so outlaw pilled @vivid vessel

[rotund pulsar]

because you could value the idea of stunning the mobs

[vivid vessel]

i know

[opaque jackal]

Less stops = more uncapped AoE which I would welcome. It's the only reason they target cap now really bc of the mob casts

[rotund pulsar]

and therefore not feel like shit

[vivid vessel]

doesnt feel as bad pressing ccs on sub or ass

[rotund pulsar]

like you could hate doing damage

[hollow temple]

zac

[frail veldt]

exactly

[rotund pulsar]

and really like doing

utility shit

[hollow temple]

your addiction is unhealthy

[rotund pulsar]

(like ret paladins)

[random stirrup]

at least kidney contributes to restless blades

[hollow temple]

intervention time !

[naive river]

should i take twilight dev into keys to and say yolo?

[swift cairn]

REMOVE KS + Softcap (why not) is the only big deal atm

[vivid vessel]

Trickz

[frail veldt]

crackshot btes should stun for 0.1 seconds unaffected by dr

[vivid vessel]

Did you aee

[hasty warren]

Is it Guy who wrote this ? https://www.wowhead.com/news/outlaw-rogue-mid-expansion-retrospective-hero-talents-current-issues-and-season-377020?utm_source=discord-webhook

[vivid vessel]

The key we did with ross

[frail veldt]

and the stun should bladeflurry

like snipers autos in dota 2

[opaque jackal]

No it was She

[hollow temple]

i saw some where you roasted him on his assa

[frail veldt]

just tiny little micro stuns

[swift cairn]

literaly written

[vivid vessel]

fastest 19 priory with outlaw assa trickz

[hollow temple]

please make him sit down

[vivid vessel]

isnt that kinda cool

[wintry solar]

yes

[vivid vessel]

fuck the casters

[hasty warren]

wait it's written at the bottom

[frail veldt]

yes

[haughty wigeon]

yes

[vivid vessel]

no

[haughty wigeon]

talk of the town in most class cords rn

[hollow temple]

just remove assa

[random stirrup]

[haughty wigeon]

outlaw nerf soon

[hasty warren]

[opaque jackal]

@cinder relic has a point. Y'all mad for no reason

[frail veldt]

outlaw cranks priory

[haughty wigeon]

no one is mad

[vivid vessel]

[opaque jackal]

Change your pic some more

[haughty wigeon]

i dont think anyone is gonna disagree with the majority of guys takes in the article

[haughty wigeon]

nah this one is good, it me

[opaque jackal]

It fits you...

[haughty wigeon]

[rotund pulsar]

i disagree with the part at the end where he says they should rework the entire spec by slowing it down and removing all the fun stuff

[vivid vessel]

I think it's funny he forgot to mention ho

[rotund pulsar]

that part wasn't as cool as the rest

[haughty wigeon]

thats why i said "with the majority od the takes"

[vivid vessel]

When he talked about resources overload

[opaque jackal]

That's your opinion and you're welcome to have it. Welcome to reality

[vivid vessel]

Oops

[rotund pulsar]

this is not reality

[wintry solar]

not here you cant

[haughty wigeon]

this is not the gotcha you think it is

[vivid vessel]

I forgot to talk about the 1 talent that is the most resource bloated in the game

Mb

[haughty wigeon]

go back to suggesting to remove rtb

[hollow temple]

[opaque jackal]

I will

Rtb will die once it can't be tracked you watch

[haughty wigeon]

[vivid vessel]

[hollow temple]

[frail veldt]

I dont think theyre going to remove trackability anytime soon

if ever

[vivid vessel]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1071623449056915458/1204479291010850856/1089685999552036936.gif

[haughty wigeon]

nah mewo

[opaque jackal]

In Midnight I have high hopes it will

[haughty wigeon]

its happening tomorrow

confine said so

[frail veldt]

if they remove WAs I think people will quit

[hollow temple]

if they even remove it at all

[silk stirrup]

Remove KiR IMO

[opaque jackal]

If they quit they quit. Most of them already mad all the time anyways

[haughty wigeon]

it'll be removed when they think their ui is good enough, we can help improve it with feedback but i dont think it'll happen anytime soon

[frail veldt]

mad but paying money

quit means no money

[haughty wigeon]

its also not like

midnight will have 0 class changes

[frail veldt]

also their UI enables tracking of rtb buffs hahaha

[haughty wigeon]

shit will be so different for almost all classes

[opaque jackal]

All over 1 spec? Not ideal

[frail veldt]

so ALREADY they have a substitute

[vivid vessel]

your opinion is bad +
blue name +
ugly pfp +
low io prolly

[hollow temple]

your opinion is bad +
blue name +
ugly pfp +
low io prolly

[haughty wigeon]

that it will take prio compared to everything else

[hollow temple]

sit zac

[frail veldt]

people who hate KiR are just jealous they arent chad enough to get the extra 2-5% damage you gain from playing it in keys

[vivid vessel]

whats your pvp rating

[frail veldt]

h8ers

[haughty wigeon]

actually true

and real

[hollow temple]

higherdenyours

[vivid vessel]

pvp rating check now

[hollow temple]

noob

[frail veldt]

higher than yours

[vivid vessel]

Tell me number

[haughty wigeon]

higher this

[vivid vessel]

facts

[hollow temple]

zac has notoriously fr*nch opinions

be careful

[frail veldt]

true

[haughty wigeon]

i was gonna say something

but it might actually get me introuble

[frail veldt]

dare you

[haughty wigeon]

[opaque jackal]

then say it because all ya do is yap

[frail veldt]

you wont

coward

[vivid vessel]

my opinions are objectively more correct than yours

[hollow temple]

🧢

[haughty wigeon]

anywho

[vivid vessel]

how much

rating

you bozo

[frail veldt]

higher

than

yours

you cant even count as high as his rating

[vivid vessel]

I probably have twice your rating with PvE points you moob

[opaque jackal]

Can y'all stream this duel

[vivid vessel]

3 times

4 even

[haughty wigeon]

okay

[vivid vessel]

Noob

[haughty wigeon]

whatss your tmog score

i bet 0

cause u have 0 rizz

[vivid vessel]

??????

[haughty wigeon]

0swag

0 style

[vivid vessel]

have you seen my new swords

[haughty wigeon]

0trial of style

[vivid vessel]

my tmog style is infinite

[haughty wigeon]

cap

your from ohio

[vivid vessel]

im not

[hasty warren]

Where can I find a classification of dps specs rank by apm ?
I'm arguing outlaw is one of the highest but I can't find evidences

[vivid vessel]

im french

[opaque oxide]

whats wrong with ohio

[opaque jackal]

go buckeyes

[hasty warren]

[rotund pulsar]

warcraft logs

and then casts

would be a good guess

maybe?

[random stirrup]

[hollow temple]

WCL is inflated iirc

[rotund pulsar]

but like , that's not relaly much of an arguement cause like

[opaque jackal]

french canadian or actual french

[rotund pulsar]

what other spec is competing

[hasty warren]

ye if I find a good log with most specs

[hollow temple]

google simulationcraft apm chart

[rotund pulsar]

prot pally has a lot

[opaque oxide]

havoc dh

[frail veldt]

who the fuck woudl argue against this

[haughty wigeon]

prot paladin is highest one

[rotund pulsar]

not as much as outlaw

it doesn't stack haste

[haughty wigeon]

but keep in mind

[rotund pulsar]

literally just a slower gcd

[hasty warren]

my friends are a bit delusional

[haughty wigeon]

alot of high apm specs have alot of ogcd stuff they weave in

[opaque oxide]

im going off based on the simcraft

[haughty wigeon]

which inflates it

[rotund pulsar]

i can ccall them dumb for you

and you can just screesnhot and show them

like

[frail veldt]

dev lolol

unreal

38

window licker spec

[haughty wigeon]

show swords

[frail veldt]

nocap

[hasty warren]

oh ty

[haughty wigeon]

they hold no candle to my krol blades

[hasty warren]

what is your source ?

[opaque jackal]

If yall still talking about stops poor Monks can't defend themselves in keys

[haughty wigeon]

i had since

wotlk

[frail veldt]

damn how is havoc apm so high?

[haughty wigeon]

reaver

[frail veldt]

do thye have a ton of ogcd?

idgi

[haughty wigeon]

shatter destiny

[vivid vessel]

im not home rn

[haughty wigeon]

not that im aware off

[vivid vessel]

only picture i hvae

[frail veldt]

they have to

[haughty wigeon]

goblin tech

[frail veldt]

to have that apm

[haughty wigeon]

[haughty wigeon]

i think some stuff is like

half gcd

[runic bough]

WE TIMED IT

[haughty wigeon]

like felblade

[frail veldt]

oh wait

doesnt havoc apm count picking up souls?

[opaque oxide]

the movement stuff on havoc

[opaque oxide]

has different gcd

[haughty wigeon]

i dont believe so?

[runic bough]

28 mins

fast fast

I was pumping

[haughty wigeon]

felblade ya is half gcd

or like

.8 gcd

[opaque oxide]

fel rush/veng retreat

[vivid vessel]

this seems weird

[haughty wigeon]

vr ogcd but thats 20 second cd

[vivid vessel]

i think havoc is inflated

[frail veldt]

right?

[vivid vessel]

how could havoc be similar apm

[frail veldt]

cuz dont they have the normal 1.5s gcd?

[vivid vessel]

ye

[haughty wigeon]

@calm orbit

why is havoc high apm

[vivid vessel]

it might be counting the auto throw glaives

[haughty wigeon]

explain sim man

[vivid vessel]

can i get a link to sim

to check

[random stirrup]

supposedly it counts soul pick ups

[frail veldt]

https://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/TWW2_Raid.html just go to the drop down

or did you want the raidbots one

[hasty warren]

Is it troll to play both usable trinket ?

vexie and stixx one

It sim a bit better than just vexi+delve one

[frail veldt]

I wonder if its cuz blade dance triggers throw glaive?

[haughty wigeon]

shouldnt be

[frail veldt]

im betting thats why

[haughty wigeon]

[vivid vessel]

thats the thing

ye

fake ass apm

Isn't that like

Silly to have in the apl

Can an human pick up the souls on demand

[haughty wigeon]

i think since its important to reaver

its there

[vivid vessel]

I can't really see them unless it's mega chilling

[haughty wigeon]

and like heavily optimized to relfect human usage

[vivid vessel]

Like if im in a pull in m+

[haughty wigeon]

felblade grabs

[vivid vessel]

How tf am I seeing them

[runic bough]

guys I think HO with the correct haste is higher apm than KiR 1fh

[haughty wigeon]

and you kinda walk over alot of them by just doing movement spam

[vivid vessel]

I mean I guess if fury is < 90 is fine

[haughty wigeon]

like alot of soul gathering is accidental

[vivid vessel]

That's like all the time

It should be fine

[haughty wigeon]

even for veng

[runic bough]

Ho tricks with correct haste feels faster to me and im having fun. KS is finishing faster too.

[vivid vessel]

It's just picking them on cd basically

[haughty wigeon]

you can accidently walk over a good chunk of souls

and kinda runign your spb damage if your not careful

cause of pickuprange

[runic bough]

HO Tricks with 20% haste is feeling nice

[vivid vessel]

What's spb

[haughty wigeon]

spirit bomb

[vivid vessel]

Ah

[runic bough]

its dh aoe

[vivid vessel]

Why you talking to me about vengeance dude

Silly

[haughty wigeon]

aka vengs only uncapped aoe ability

explaining how shitty souls are

[long barn]

@zac - I was comparing my 18 ML to yours and you did quite a lot more overall dps. Granted others in your group were not as high as mine were but I noticed your playing house of cards. I’ve been gaming HO and this was one of the few I’ve been tinkering with KIR. Is mastery that good for KIR?

[haughty wigeon]

as a concept

i would like to have souls be like combo points

would be based

[coral bobcat]

zac why is your details showing you casting ambush everytime you use between the eyes?

[vivid vessel]

trinkets are irrelevant

[vivid vessel]

thats disaptch

[wintry solar]

dispatch

[coral bobcat]

i meant

dispatch

[wintry solar]

from crackshot

[coral bobcat]

so its autoproccing

[vivid vessel]

ye

[coral bobcat]

damn i thought there was some macro tech i was about to learn

[vivid vessel]

no lol

We don't really have any relevant tech rn

[coral bobcat]

how come you got so little crit btw

[vivid vessel]

It's just outlaw is hard to play and kinda infinite skill cap

[coral bobcat]

i see other outlaw with like 15% more crit than you

[vivid vessel]

Im not playing outlaw perfectly rn

Uh idk

[coral bobcat]

obses for example

[vivid vessel]

Just my gear

[coral bobcat]

are you just tryna max as much vers as pos

[frail veldt]

Cuz crits bad

[hasty warren]

only robots can play perfectly

[long barn]

HO build? Or KIR

[frail veldt]

Vers bis stat

[hasty warren]

u can always improve imo

[coral bobcat]

HO i used to play outlaw long time ago just got back into it

[frail veldt]

I swear there's still corner cases in UB stack usage

[coral bobcat]

also what WA show the supercharge procs?

i lit cant find one showing it

[long barn]

I’ve far more familiar with HO and I know sims have be grabbing a lot more crit than KIR which I’ve seen Zac running

[frail veldt]

KiR has a lot more ruthless precision uptime

And a lot less damage from builders

[vivid vessel]

obses plays ho

so he has less haste prolly

[frail veldt]

Trickster geta extra builder crit damage

[vivid vessel]

more crit

[frail veldt]

So ho likes crit more

[coral bobcat]

HO or KIR sims higher?

[frail veldt]

Cuz Ho builders actually do damage

[frail veldt]

Very close

Depends on your gear tbh

[long barn]

Extremely close

[coral bobcat]

why play one over the other then

[frail veldt]

KiR more fun

[long barn]

Preference

[frail veldt]

And more flex

KiR is for chads

[hasty warren]

I love so much the kir deft build

[thorn river]

KiR is love

[hasty warren]

it's so cool to play

[coral bobcat]

qq some ppl using dagger off hand some using sword why

[long barn]

My opinion HO has hot streaks. KiR has flex and is better in high keys. But logs say different. Logs show both are great but maybe if you looked at say Top 100, probs more KIR than HO on like 18+ M+

[coral bobcat]

also the 658 champion weapon acc worth running or no

[hasty warren]

dagger proc poisons more i think

[thorn river]

0,2% dps increase cuz poison proc

[weary fog]

for trash in keys yes

then weap swap for bosses

[frail veldt]

Doesn't matter

!oh

[ornate heath]

A dagger offhand is technically like 0.2% better than a slow weapon because it generates more Instant Poison procs. That is the only difference, Fatal Flourish proc rate is normalized to be unaffected by the change in attack speed. Note that item level or stats will matter more than this quirk, or you can simply use a slow weapon anyway for transmog.

[vivid vessel]

it does matter

[frail veldt]

Swords are more DPS

[vivid vessel]

Every season if there is a good non dagger for off hand

[frail veldt]

Cuz t mog

[vivid vessel]

You gain +5% mog dps

[frail veldt]

Yep

[vivid vessel]

Double sword mogs are legit op

[haughty wigeon]

tmog dps important

[vivid vessel]

And this isn't even fake btw

[haughty wigeon]

double krol blades bis

[vivid vessel]

Like actual real

[haughty wigeon]

double fencer swords bis

[hasty warren]

depends on what race u play

[rotund pulsar]

kinda got used to mogging a dagger so tiny that it's invisible

[haughty wigeon]

double fisters bis

[rotund pulsar]

and then just having a 1 sword mog

goes kinda hard

[weary fog]

oh pistol axe is pretty good too

[hasty warren]

undead atack animations are so cool

[vivid vessel]

i will mog you

[haughty wigeon]

double black temple skull hammers bis

[rotund pulsar]

but if you have like 1h sword and visible 1h dagger

🤢

[long barn]

Is everyone over double wind fury?

[frail veldt]

I use the broken bottle mog a lot

[rotund pulsar]

exactly that one bro

god you're a genius

[frail veldt]

Hahaha

[rotund pulsar]

broken bottle + sinful flame

shit just disappears

[hasty warren]

it's good for pirate mog

[frail veldt]

Yeeeeep

[rotund pulsar]

they'll call me a glazer for this

[long barn]

@vivid vessel - how did you find a perfect comp for buffs lol. All the big 4% buffs that help Outlaw you have. lol.

[hasty warren]

when ur comp is monk war drood sham

[vivid vessel]

missing druid actually

[long barn]

The log I was looking at has drood

[vivid vessel]

ah well i pug a lot

[calm orbit]

hello

[haughty wigeon]

hemlo

[vivid vessel]

so i play with a lot of diff people

[long barn]

It’s a good log.

[haughty wigeon]

why does havoc have high apm? do souls count to it?

and if yes, why? :3c

[vivid vessel]

our best comp is dobule rogue

[vivid vessel]

i told you it did tho

its in the action list

[long barn]

Have you finally got a chest piece to remove tier

[vivid vessel]

no i got shoulders instead

[haughty wigeon]

ye but i want to hear bees explination of it

[vivid vessel]

which is the same in teh end

[haughty wigeon]

bees is cool

bees is fren

[long barn]

I’m in same boat I might just craft chest next week

[long barn]

Oh those are good

[vivid vessel]

I mean a mythic slot is probably better

Ye I'm basically full gear

I don't need anything

A socket for belt maybe

[calm orbit]

probably does

[vivid vessel]

If I get a trahsmaster cloak I will equip it I guess

But does nothing

[long barn]

Yea but I mean until I get something doesn’t matter. Crest are free now

[calm orbit]

as for why, idk but who cares about sim apm

[vivid vessel]

It's the only accurate way of checking APM for specs

Unfortunate that it isn't anymore apparently

[calm orbit]

it's been this way for years for dh

probably since forever

[vivid vessel]

Idk if there is a solution for that

Cause wcl APM is useless

[long barn]

Is there any benefit to running Gally in M+. Is it a hard no on the swap, or you have to be out of combat.

[vivid vessel]

No it's trash

• you can't swap

Gally weapon

[long barn]

Bah

[calm orbit]

just go based on vibes

[haughty wigeon]

[calm orbit]

outlaw feel fast.. break finger..

[haughty wigeon]

Vibes. Ty

[calm orbit]

feral nathria? can play a whole other spec while pooling

[long barn]

You running magnet or grinder now

[vivid vessel]

magnet hoc

[long barn]

Maybe I’ll pick up a HOC

[vivid vessel]

Why do people ask me about trinkets on cd tho

Trinkets are the most irrelevant shit this tier

Legit can go in any key with any trinket equipped

They all suck

[long barn]

Really. I mean I guess I haven’t done the log research

[vivid vessel]

nothing to research

trimnkets arej ust bad

[long barn]

Maybe that’s why they giving them for free with dinars. Lol

[leaden folio]

where is my delve pirate trinket. we miss you

[hidden bay]

Guys i have a dillema.. opportunity to reroll enha cuz ours left or stay rogue and hope for rework in 11.2

[vivid vessel]

my trinket btw

[rotund zodiac]

I wish feint cost no energy

[long barn]

I think outlaw is in a good place. Maybe a little KS love but I think the spec really shines. Maybe an argument on mob cap.

[long barn]

Yea I see.

[weary cargo]

But its still better simming then myth pacemeaker 😁

[rotund pulsar]

and also stunned every mob around me for 9 seconds

and was off gcd

[long barn]

Let me check my wax trinket

[shut lichen]

Was he strictly enhance or just the shaman dps guy?

[hidden bay]

Enhance

[haughty wigeon]

I love how trinkets suck

[lime lake]

enhance goes kind of hard

[haughty wigeon]

For everyone

[hidden bay]

We also have a resto sham so buff is covered but we also have 2 rogues now so either way both options kinda shit

[haughty wigeon]

Cause they made them suck for tanks

Love it

[hidden bay]

Enha is very fun atm

[haughty wigeon]

Looooove it

[long barn]

My wax did 100 mil and grinder 140 mil in that 18 ML I was looking at.

[haughty wigeon]

Slap a 30% damage reduction on non tank trinkets for tanks

Leading them all to be bland and boring

Cause dps players used rage heart :)

[vivid vessel]

Thank trinkets also sucks I have heard

Our tank tried using a tank trinket

And just got one shot trough it

[haughty wigeon]

They all suck balls

Only good one is bomb suit

And mud if your felscarred

Cause of a funny bug interaction

[hidden bay]

Its nice tho

Dont have to worry about geting mega specific good trinket

[past fern]

kinda funny they thought that the trinkets was good

[latent jetty]

11,259 / 17% Haste are not enough for the keep it rolling build? Right?

[hasty warren]

confused stonks

[long barn]

I’ll let others chime in but everyone I see one top of logs is 19.5% +/- a smudging

Solo might have said 19.2 is the perfect number but don’t quote me on it

[deep falcon]

is the roll the bones weakaura accurate? just starting to learn outlaw

https://wago.io/Pd53s_NPU this one for reference

[long barn]

Try some from this discord. And see. Can’t speak to that one as never used it.

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[deep falcon]

yea i'm using the buff tracker also was just wondering

since this one tells me when to roll or not

[long barn]

I wouldn’t trust that

But that’s me

[latent jetty]

Mhm so I need to change an item or two… thank you! 🙂

[vivid vessel]

That's just where sims tend to land on

[long barn]

Np. Double check but raidbots should let you recraft and sim and see what makes the best solution

[long barn]

Have you had any logs with 92% or better ADR?

[vivid vessel]

Idk about logs

Details yes

Log also count out of combat so

[long barn]

Best I’ve gotten is 90 and I’m trying to see why I can’t get that higher

Ahh

[vivid vessel]

If there is long downtime out of combat you potentially don't press ADR during it

[long barn]

So that’s why details has higher dps

Logs is counting the downtime

[obtuse hollow]

is there a mastery meme build this patch?

[grim spear]

!macro

[ornate heath]

Macroing gs is relatively "ok", be aware that it wont ever be entirely optimal: target swapping in m+ or putting it on a dying target for example. You can macro it to all your abilities.

[vivid vessel]

yes

[hidden bay]

Not been able to get much above 90 either

Maybe i should just reroll

Outlaw too hard

For non 0.1%

[hasty warren]

assa is good rn

[hidden bay]

Hate plate spinning playstyle

[swift cairn]

How many time will take blizz to react to that thread and remove KS

[hidden bay]

Infinite

[swift cairn]

thats the real topic here

[hidden bay]

Ks on radar since tww launch

But class team must be working on the UI or housing or something

[swift cairn]

KS can feel good on pvp tbh maybe not remove, but make this shit a pvp talent and replace it by a real burst spell or smth else XD

[hidden bay]

Seeing as theres no class changes for 2 patches now

[grim spear]

They said they want to reduce the amount of ground effects

maybe that’s their way of saving ks

[coral bobcat]

how can i get my wa to show blue bars for supercharge procs

[swift cairn]

Bro its not the ground effect that much, they can "reduce" it , it wont be enough for shit like 3rd boss from DFC, last boss WORK, 1st boss ROOK where u cant use it on phasing unless u press def

[coral bobcat]

https://wago.io/7JIBaZxoh - shows it in ss but not on wa

[hidden bay]

That doesnt save it

[rotund zodiac]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[vivid vessel]

what plates are you spinning

assa feels more like a plate spinning spec

[hidden bay]

Yes that was response to play assa

[red zinc]

Yes it explodes it just doesnt do damage

Its like that on a lot of instances

[vivid vine]

how come it feels i do infinite less dmg as HO

[long barn]

I feel the opposite lol. But I’m coming from HO to KIR

[red zinc]

I dont think we should list blade rush as one of the possible fixes for ks

screws over talents quite a bit afaik

[fathom bramble]

pretty sure the intention behind these suggestions would be to move BR somewhere else in the tree

same as how KS was moved to be far less obstructive when it was made to have a hero talent rely on it

[red zinc]

Yeah I guess

I fear lizzard aint got the capacities for that though

[fathom bramble]

perhaps

I know I first proposed it as a choice node with KS

which I do think is the most fitting spot for it as a trickster fix

whether blizzard will actually do it or not it's definitely worth mentioning that a talent position adjustment would be important though

whenever BR in trickster is being pushed

[vagrant saddle]

i dont see br replacing ks in current state, i dont think they will give us non finisher to reset hidden blade proc or w/e its called

[red zinc]

I mean yeah, everything changed/added about law in the last year indicate that they just dont play it and only read wowhead posts about it

[vapid sundial]

Obviously just combine them and give us killing rush.

Every mob killed during the duration of this causes you to take another swig of rum.
10% more dmg stacking infinitely

[tender wedge]

the two abilities work very differently and would require a lot of retuning for sure

[red zinc]

so when posts like this give them a very easy lazy optout that would fuck over builds

its a lil worrying

Not guys fault just lizzard anxiety on my end

[remote pike]

guys, for the classic thunderfury weapon/transmog when farming molten core, do i need to put something specific in raid options? like mythic raid, amount of players and such

[vapid sundial]

Well.
When someone says have br replace ks you would ASSUME they would realize that means node wise too.

[tender wedge]

i mean there's no way they'd just be like "aight it's BR instead of KS now, have at it" without any other changes

[red zinc]

[vapid sundial]

But this is like the 3rd or 4th attempt at forcing KS

So

Who the fuck knows what they are thinking

[tender wedge]

personally i'd prefer the woxfix over moving it to BR

but i mean

[rotund zodiac]

Next patch: Dreadblades return

[tender wedge]

something's gotta give

[rotund zodiac]

[vapid sundial]

I'd rather ks get fully removed

So we don't have this issue years later somehow

Again.

[fathom bramble]

ideal fix to me is KS with woxfix+static duration of 2 gcds

instead of having it be based on combo points

[tender wedge]

i like giving my wrists a break for 3s 😎

[vapid sundial]

Play with the 1 button rotation

[tender wedge]

does unlocked mousewheel scroll count as a button?

[vapid sundial]

Infinite scroll should

[red zinc]

Dreadblades were pretty cool but you have so much cp gen now itd be kinda eh

[vapid sundial]

Db just puts us back into df s1 ho

Pre nerf

[red zinc]

One button rotation with uncapped gcd exploit and scroll wheel keybind

[vapid sundial]

https://tenor.com/view/excited-happy-blast-gif-13663399

[fathom bramble]

Oh right any ks fix should also include fixing spellqueueing

[red zinc]

I can live with ks for the rest of this season

But if 11.2 doesnt have a fix

they actually gotta be trolling

[vapid sundial]

Trolling spree man

[deft terrace]

the most annoying thing about KS to me is ending it out of melee range

[fathom bramble]

They could just mega buff fatebound to let us ignore it some more

[red zinc]

regardless 11.2 better have the most class changes ive ever seen

[vapid sundial]

Why fix something doe the least popular class and least popular spec of that class.

Gotta buff mage instead

[red zinc]

No class changes for any content patches

Is ridiculous

[vapid sundial]

Another warlock buff!

You're welcome.

Maybe even an extra shaman rework thrown in for the fun of it

[patent mirage]

" this class sux but anyway we buff warlocks "

[vapid sundial]

I was playing enh during last season

I don't know why they got a rework

[royal crag]

Just make KS an affix next season let everyone enjoy it

[hidden bay]

Yeah its a good bandaid

[red zinc]

I mean it doesnt really matter to me what they change/buff

[patent mirage]

because unlike rogues they got devs that get stuff done

[red zinc]

Not having shitty class design be fixed for 6 months because of update philosophy is just stupid

[vapid sundial]

They don't bc the shaman Devs change more than I change my socks

[red zinc]

And makes the game stale

[patent mirage]

at least they got one

[craggy barn]

shaman devs were asleep at the wheel for ele for a while werent they

[vapid sundial]

I stopped paying attention so Idk

[patent mirage]

i have a theory , shaman devs are actually AI

[vapid sundial]

We are giving the best class in game a rework that makes them EVEN BETTER.

[patent mirage]

remember during sl , when locks where busted and they buffed them even more

[red zinc]

I mean thats what usually happens

[patent mirage]

and we had to live though destro+ surv for a while

[red zinc]

Older class design leads to outbuffing the clunky aspects

And then they update it and its busted

[vapid sundial]

Enh wasnt really clunky

They change made it a 2 button spec for some reason

With the only expression being tempest management

Ig LB and CL weaving were a thing.

But meh

I think it's just bored Dev syndrome Tbh. They need to be doing something or get fired.

It's the reason they keep changing and making discord ui worse for example.

[wintry solar]

This feels like the most realistic fix

"Fix"

[vivid vessel]

How do they buff fateboudn enough

Since trickster is 20% ahead in aoe

[lunar thorn]

I don't think anything particularly noteworthy is going to happen until Midnight

[random stirrup]

Who knows maybe something big with hero talents will happen with 12.0 🤐

[honest sparrow]

Give Trickster the Aug treatment and nerf it into the ground while removing the downscalling in aoe from fatebound. But i like trickster gameplay so much better then fatebound minus dying from killingspree

[lunar thorn]

Our hero trees were pretty much just afterthoughts and scrambled together for launch so hopefully they focus on us this time

[vivid vessel]

I mean

It's more that trickster has AOE scaling

Fazed is 5% more bf damage, and nimble flurry is a .25 multiplicator

[honest sparrow]

Yes thats because i think you would need to nerf it to the ground. But i dont want it i like trickster its just the pain point with killingspree being killingspree

[vivid vine]

ks used to make you stick to your target right?

or am i misremembering

[runic bough]

3.5mil on normal vexie

hmm

just ran normal for funs

[craggy barn]

can someone get on classic just to show what old ks looked like

[lime lake]

no

[runic bough]

guys im 22 outlaw on my realm

and

climbing still

[cursive stag]

[runic bough]

and im only halfway on 14's

lots of people on 18s now

prob realm 1 by then

[craggy barn]

ok

[runic bough]

oh yeah

outlaw on my realm only at 16's

not too far away now

[rotund zodiac]

Mine is rank 1 because nobody play outlaw on my realm

[runic bough]

nah bro

Flushies is just too pro for your realm

my realm is high pop tho

true