All crackshot does by itself is change spender priority. Crackshot becomes a problem when paired with ace and uhuh
#outlaw
wintry solar
haughty wigeon
outlaw was and is a reactive spec
craggy barn
if were talking about over anundance of resource gain
haughty wigeon
so aces and crackshot isnt really a issue
dawn talon
i think generally that fth is too strong and that fb talent that makes u get extra cp is really ridiculously unhealthy longterm
wintry solar
Crackshot by itself no
patent mirage
There we go
haughty wigeon
uhuh inflating adr uptime to ridic levels that punishes you once dropped is the issue
cinder relic
I mean these aren't issues to solve, they are features that exist
dawn talon
yeah
craggy barn
an issue to solve would be gsw sucking ass
haughty wigeon
i like fth
cinder relic
Crackshot and uhuh being strong isn't a problem
frail veldt
an issue to solve would be gsw sucking ass
eh not really
cinder relic
It's a feature
haughty wigeon
even tho its also problematic
wintry solar
Well this feature is a problem
frail veldt
Crackshot and uhuh being strong isn't a problem
well its a problem for those who want the spec to have non stealth/subterfuge based gameplay
patent mirage
Yep
frail veldt
UHUH enables all of those builds
cinder relic
It's not "problematic" for sin to be designed to be slow
frail veldt
so without an alternative to UHUH, we will never not be stealth/subt based
dawn talon
ultimately im personally pretty happy with outlaw rn design wise, i like that it has something to it other than 'the builder/spender efficiency spec' in an age where every spec is building & spending
cinder relic
It's not "problematic" that sub is designed around symbols of death and shadowdance
haughty wigeon
i think cause of the gameplay it offers is more punishing than outlaw ever was before
hence the name "problematic"
dawn talon
i just think that the level of complexity is a little too high and don't really have a better suggestion for accessibility of the spec than making another viable build
frail veldt
adr uptime as a function of skill is a steep curve
haughty wigeon
you play good then its less problematic but sometimes adr drops out of your control and your just stuck
having no energy
cinder relic
I would consider that problematic to at least some degree
If a talent and gameplay style is problematic then every single spec in this entire game is probelamtic and needs to be fixed
Like full stop
cinder relic
Every spec is a problem rn that they need to solve
frail veldt
that logic is not very sound
cinder relic
It's extremely sound
haughty wigeon
spec difficulty is a spectrum
sharp hinge
i hope soon that we get to not use KS
frail veldt
so the problem in this case is a spec being extremely punishing to new players and that resulting in people being driven away from the spec
cinder relic
That's a feature not a bug
patent mirage
What we could change for now is ks
frail veldt
one could consider that a "feature" if you want to be contrariant
craggy barn
one of the common talking points i see about outlaw dislike is specifically stealth and vanish thematics, not even mechanically
haughty wigeon
its like a exaggeration of the current norm of spec difficulty
patent mirage
And maybe gsw
frail veldt
but I think most would consider that a "problem"
sharp hinge
What we could change for now is ks
that would be massive
frail veldt
youre assuming though that this is a zero sum game
dawn talon
so the problem in this case is a spec being extremely punishing to new players a...
i think that problem is like the bottom of the list of things pushingp eople away from rogue though
frail veldt
I think you can make outlaw less punishing but keep it rewarding
thats what build variety is for
craggy barn
youre assuming though that this is a zero sum game
it is. add all ur accomplishments together in wow and what does that get u?
frail veldt
you can keep current outlaw and still enable a build variant that is less optimal but less punishing to play
dawn talon
like at that point having to get a slow mainhand is a bigger issue for a lot of people who are already 'dagger rogue' people
frail veldt
thats the whole point of talent trees imo
not to have one talent solution
but to have multiple
dawn talon
thats the whole point of talent trees imo
agreed
frail veldt
that have different value/applications
craggy barn
what if they made dagger law a talent point pepw
haughty wigeon
outlaw is ment to be a difficult spec and has all of this things to solidify a skill ceiling. thats fine and its a feature hence why earlier i think we shouldnt dumb down the spec to something like rets level of complexity
but at the same time, when things happen out of your control and cuases your specs engine to suddenly stop
it kinda feels shitty
craggy barn
(is smf still a talent)
dawn talon
what if they made dagger law a talent point pepw
yeah let's check on how single minded fury is doing!
haughty wigeon
even if you played perfectly
cinder relic
There are two extremely close viable outlaw builds with different vibes and play styles, how many do you expect the Devs to actually have?
frail veldt
Yeah I think it would only be a benefit for the spec as a whole to have a build variant that does 10/12% less dps but is significantly less punishing to play
dawn talon
smf:
cinder relic
The fact that ho and kir are within margins is an insane accomplishment
Most classes don't have this
dawn talon
The fact that ho and kir are within margins is an insane accomplishment
i do agree with this
craggy barn
ye
haughty wigeon
ya but no one is arguing that guy
dawn talon
i mean hell i would even take just simplifying ho a little bit more
frail veldt
I dont think HO and KiR are that fundamentally different from an outside perspective though
haughty wigeon
this is also a community issue
frail veldt
and HO could be the non subterfuge spec
and youd probably make a lot of players happy
cinder relic
this is also a community issue
This is a made up issue that ppl in the discord have
haughty wigeon
cause you can have a more simple easier build but if it isnt within margin of harder builds
the community goes apeshit
haughty wigeon
This is a made up issue that ppl in the discord have
talking strictly in a casual setting
forum stuff
cinder relic
cause you can have a more simple easier build but if it isnt within margin of ha...
Look how upset ppl were getting at the start of HO being better than KIR
"why is this baby build better than kir taking way more effort"
craggy barn
guys, new build viable only woth one button rotation ez
frail veldt
easier spec being more dps is silly
patent mirage
outlaw being hard is not a problem that has to be fixed
haughty wigeon
im also talking about this theortical 3rd more simple build
frail veldt
thats just back asswards
cinder relic
So should easy specs never be strong?
frail veldt
outlaw being hard is not a problem that has to be fixed
You can defintely argue that it is a problem
haughty wigeon
ho vs kir is just silly nonsense shit
patent mirage
among all specs at least some will be harder than others
cinder relic
Should sin, ret, and bm be perma shit specs?
frail veldt
So should easy specs never be strong?
thats not even remotely what I said rofl
frail veldt
within a spec, build variants that are harder should have marginal dps benefits when played correctly
if all thigns are working properly
cinder relic
Why stop at specs?
frail veldt
cuz balancing across classes is too difficult
you cant just change classes that easy
haughty wigeon
cause then it opens up a can of worms where ret and bm should always be bottom cause their easy while hard specs like outlaw should always be uptop
patent mirage
if a certain spec is hard that is fine
haughty wigeon
but like
frail veldt
its easy to change builds
frail veldt
you could look at player performance relative to sim
onyx spear
!guu
frail veldt
that can give you an idea of how well the average player performs on the spec and give you a measure of "difficulty" in an indirect way
onyx spear
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
haughty wigeon
ya but then you got niches and nuances
haughty wigeon
like rets skill ceiling is in its utility usage
frail veldt
sure you cant sim utility usage
haughty wigeon
"good" ret vs a good ret
night dragon
weird question: While you wait for queue simulator - what do you play that you can pause and accept when invite comes? Want something to play during queues haha
frail veldt
so for the sake of the discussion its important to focus on rotational difficulty/dps difficulty not utility
wintry solar
like rets skill ceiling is in its utility usage
Me in 5 shuffles and not a single ret gave someone bop
craggy barn
weird question: While you wait for queue simulator - what do you play that you c...
balatro
frail veldt
which is whats relevant in the case of HO vs KiR on a difficulty scale
haughty wigeon
so for the sake of the discussion its important to focus on rotational difficult...
thats fine and dandy
for the dicussion at hand
frail veldt
since the utility of the two specs doesnt vary much
haughty wigeon
but ultimately ingame isnt that much of a vacuum in general
while yes ho and kir isnt different in a utility sense
you have to consider other nuances and what not
patent mirage
change ks ,give a softcap done thats all
haughty wigeon
are these builds effected by positive bugs? ho has a very positive bug rn so its damage is being inflated
frail veldt
how is that related to its difficulty
lime lake
uncap outlaw
frail veldt
im not sure what argument youre trying to make
are you saying HO is harder than KiR?
wintry solar
uncap outlaw
Finally, a real argument.
haughty wigeon
how much damage are these builds getting from positive bugs and things out of player control
and if fixed
frail veldt
why is that relevant
craggy barn
uncap outlaw
pls no, id like to be a captain still
haughty wigeon
would that make ho go back to a acceptable level of dps difference to kir so kir can continue being "strongest dps while also being the most difficult to perform"
frail veldt
whats funny is now that outlaw is performing so well, people shut up pretty quick about being uncapped haha
haughty wigeon
ya its funny
frail veldt
would that make ho go back to a acceptable level of dps difference to kir so kir...
I think HO is at a fine level of difference right now
no ones really complaining about HO vs kir right now
haughty wigeon
what about early in the season where it was ahead
thats what the convo is based on
haughty wigeon
not rn
craggy barn
ppl still want it uncapped but its just everyone knows and is tired of saying it
like doesnt zac still stream title it
frail veldt
yeah if HO is more than 5% above KiR I think its problematic
cuz theres really no reason to play KiR
haughty wigeon
i can agree with that
cinder relic
would that make ho go back to a acceptable level of dps difference to kir so kir...
Except kir is also buged
craggy barn
What
wintry solar
Buglaw
frail veldt
Except kir is also buged
lol shit is it?
cinder relic
Ho isn't some bug build with 30% damage gains
craggy barn
what kir bug
haughty wigeon
im not implying that at all
cinder relic
Are we pretending that any of the bullshit related to containers isn't just bugs
runic bough
OH NO
craggy barn
oh container
frail veldt
is the container a bug?
haughty wigeon
im implying that this isnt a vacuum and we have to put everything into consideration
runic bough
IS THIS META HELL AGAIN? WAS FINE UP TIL NOW
wintry solar
Oh no... my outlaw... it's bugged....
haughty wigeon
cause personally
frail veldt
IS THIS META HELL AGAIN? WAS FINE UP TIL NOW
whats your rating?
haughty wigeon
i think the nightfall weapon is also a bug
runic bough
3089
patent mirage
we have some bugs that sometimes you feel like they wont bother just in case they mess up more things
frail veldt
also this is def the least bugged outlaw has been in a while
cinder relic
I don't think the intention of kir is to have a container
haughty wigeon
and it shouldnt interact with vanish like that
cinder relic
also this is def the least bugged outlaw has been in a while
Absolutely
haughty wigeon
also this is def the least bugged outlaw has been in a while
runic bough
weak sauce
haughty wigeon
its still more bugged than the average class tho
haughty wigeon
i mean the specs i do play, they have less negative and positive bugs compared to outlaw
now idk about casters
fuck wizards
frail veldt
what bugs does outlaw have rn
haughty wigeon
i dont play those
frail veldt
other than audacity bug
frail veldt
umm
mighty pivot
some subterfuge/uhuh bugs
haughty wigeon
i really dont think the weapon should interact with vanish that way
vanish still has some small irrelevant stuff
that leads to silly things
wintry solar
I can't think of any specific bugs atm other than aud bug tbh
haughty wigeon
the multiple pre key shit
frail veldt
I dont think vanish has any bugs rn
mighty pivot
also a critter related bug which cannot be abused in mythic+ at least since they removed critters there
craggy barn
that was fixed fixed wasnt it
cinder relic
its still more bugged than the average class tho
Absolutely not
craggy barn
not just bandaid remove critters fixed
cinder relic
Go look at ww bugs
haughty wigeon
its impossible to expect all bugs to be fixed, but compared to lets say ret. theres a larger amount of silly interactions
ah shit
i forgot bout monk
cinder relic
Ret has bugs as aell
haughty wigeon
ya but not as much
frail veldt
warlock has plenty of bugs too
lime lake
hasnt ret gotten a bugfix like 3 patches in a row now
frail veldt
ret has bugs too yeah
cinder relic
It's easy to play x spec and say x spec has it so bad but the reality is wow is a buggy game, specs are just going to have bugs
haughty wigeon
hasnt ret gotten a bugfix like 3 patches in a row now
of the same thing
idk fair enough w/e
frail veldt
outlaw is def on par with other specs if not less buggy in its current state
its pretty nice tbh
haughty wigeon
its def comfy
frail veldt
as someone whos played through the worst of the subterfuge bugs
wintry solar
outlaw is def on par with other specs if not less buggy in its current state
Just you wait until we get a new talent.
wintry solar
Oh fth
frail veldt
fth?
frail veldt
wat
mighty pivot
the hook is also wonky sometimes if los is blocked even minimally
wintry solar
I think it was Tob that told me
frail veldt
do you mean how GSW only applies to the first fth?
wintry solar
Nah
frail veldt
first PS of fth*
wintry solar
Who plays that anyway
frail veldt
so fth as a whole just does less damage than a raw PS?
cinder relic
Outlaw bugs are like, fatebound, ho damage buff, kir container shit, and ks stagger
Which is like, whatever really
wintry solar
so fth as a whole just does less damage than a raw PS?
No the pistol shots after the initial don't have their damage reduced
frail veldt
why would they be reduced?
cinder relic
Because they say so
wintry solar
Because the tooltip says they're reduced
frail veldt
I had no idea lol
cinder relic
Was a Nerf they made in s2 DF iirc
wintry solar
Is the 20% reduced damage in the room with us?
cinder relic
But yeah I think novelty is worth something so I'd like a reimagining next expac at the latest
vivid vessel
Outlaw bugs are like, fatebound, ho damage buff, kir container shit, and ks stag...
kir container isnt related to kir btw
its just how rtb works
wintry solar
Frankly it's what keeps the spec interesting to me tbh
vivid vessel
with cto
they would have to rethink cto a bit prolly
i mean maybe cto/kir buffs should just always stay behind
would make things much simpler to understand
cinder relic
Yeah it's likely just a byproduct of how CTO was initially designed
Make a spell initially to cleanly work with rtb and then a spell like kir comes around that makes that initial coding solution become an "issue"
vivid vessel
i think the fact cto get rolled away is legit an accident
cause why would it stays if its above rtb
that make no sense
i think they tried to make cto buffs not ever be rolled away
but they failed and forgot to fix it or smth
cinder relic
A possibility yeah
wintry solar
I believe it. Esp after the bte bug from earlier this expansion.
mighty pivot
do we have any idea why ar sometimes pandemics?
frail veldt
do we have any idea why ar sometimes pandemics?
I wonder if its only when you use it outside of subterfuge
cuz in subterfuge, adr is technically at like 15 minute duration
so probably using adr during that time doesnt pandemic it
but maybe if you use adr over another adr while outside of stealth it causes it to pandemic
west dirge
!kir
ornate heathBOT
KIR build compared to 
HO:
- doesn't use ambush, uses the same builder priority inside and outside of stealth
- is more cp efficient with pistol shot usage (see faq)
- has to use KIR itself as soon as you hit 4 buffs from RTB/CTO
- has an additional reroll logic after pressing KIR (see faq)
- is more punishing if you mess up builder priority at a given moment
- needs 19% haste from rating to reach 25% during adrenaline rush after alacrity
- KIR 1 FTH really likes trickster optimizations, like prioritizing SS when unseen blades are guaranteed (see faq)
haughty wigeon
Just my quick two cents, I believe outlaw road should have some type of pet. Outlaw rogue being pirate-themed, should have a pet as most pirates usually have some type of animal companion. I think it would be a cool addition to an already unique class. Obviously not have it compare to a hunter’s pet on the same level. But it’ll be fun to have another ability in our tool kit. And then make only certain pets tameable, such as bats, rodents, birds of prey, monkeys, etc… Let me know what y’all think you other outlaw rogues out there! Have fun y’all, I’ll see you out there.
based based based forum post, i agree give me a rat i can name smee
mighty pivot
I wonder if its only when you use it outside of subterfuge
That only made it go up to 20.8s using it with ~16s leftover duration, but I've seen it go way higher. It might have to do with UHUH even if it's not exactly that. It's like ~34 minutes while "paused" at full duration because they seem to just make it tick at 1% the original rate. Maybe the conversion between the slow and normal tick rate has some weird interactions
civic void
I find it quite funny how no matter the suggestion it's always solely backed up by the pirate theme
At this point I wouldn't even be surprised at someone suggesting half our screen should be black to emulate a pirate eyepatch
mighty pivot
have a talent for a peg leg which gives you -10% move speed but better kicks
random stirrup
That only made it go up to 20.8s using it with ~16s leftover duration, but I've ...
had it go to 34 seconds in a key a few days ago
glass mortar
theres some bug with AR thats been around all patch
we discovered it early on but nobody has figured out what causes it or how to reproduce it
sometimes when u recast AR it just extends up to a much longer duration (ive had it go up to 28s).
cant even call it pandemic really because the duration is longer then pandemic and seemingly random
craggy barn
maybe theres a container buff for adrenaline rush that extends rush further if u press it while that container is up
pepw
glass mortar
nah because then it would happen all the time
its legit like, completely random
happens once in a blue moon for me and ive never been able to determine what caused it
craggy barn
maybe its still pandemic but is scuffed bc of UHUH
craggy barn
yea but maybe it extending past its original duration with UHUH just scuffs the math
mighty pivot
worth trying if it pandemics if you never pause the timer between cast and refresh. On one hand that's very unlikely, but given how rare it is it might be something like that
glass mortar
i dont know if its possible to churn enough cdr without vanishing to do that
but those werent the circumstances i managed to force it to happen once or twice
craggy barn
boss resets?
glass mortar
the first night we were chatting about it i ARd then sat in stealth for 3m still it was off cd (still had 18s left) then recast and it went to 30
random stirrup
worth trying if it pandemics if you never pause the timer between cast and refre...
this could be one potential way to trigger it because it happens extremely often to me in levelling dungeons/delves/visions
glass mortar
was the same night someone reported the bug
but couldnt recreate it no matter how hard i tried
random stirrup
where you get your opener subterfuge window and everything dies
glass mortar
well ur constantly pausing it in that case not never pausing it
random stirrup
it would also make sense because it was very rarely possible to super extend it before, but perma pausing was exceedingly rare because of the subterfuge bug
now that you can restealth during subterfuge it seems to happen much more often 
glass mortar
does it, ive only had it happen 4 or 5 times all season so far
guess it might happen sometimes and i dont notice but
seems very rare to me
random stirrup
I think i had it happen once or twice last season
since i made my new outlaw alt this season ive had it happen 10+ times in the last 2 weeks
glass mortar
almost as rare as the bug that makes AR last forever (until u restealth)
fathom bramble
maybe its still pandemic but is scuffed bc of UHUH
afaik it's missing any flag that would normally make something pandemic
so it shouldn't be related to any kind of scuffed pandemic implementation
glass mortar
i mean i dont believe it is
fathom bramble
my guess is that there is something janky going on around how they implemented the legendary that adds 4 seconds to AR from shadowlands
glass mortar
the duration goes past the cap on pandemic and appears truly random
fathom bramble
yeah
glass mortar
people were proccing it at 25s, 27s, 30s
fathom bramble
pandemic of course would be 26 seconds and I've gotten 34
carmine hill
Is there a channel for KiR players? I dont feel comfy around HO
glass mortar
yup
random stirrup
Is there a channel for KiR players? I dont feel comfy around HO
damage meter bragging thread 
carmine hill
fathom bramble
I have the perfect damage meter for that thread actually
late swallow
Pray for diddy 
fathom bramble
my best guess is that something is causing adrenaline rush to think it's a celerity proc
whatever server side magic made celerity work
so it adds 20 seconds instead of properly resetting the duration
late swallow
fathom bramble
just like how celerity added 4 seconds to whatever you had
weary cloak
i played a bit of outlaw in DF and tried it on a fresh alt in some 7s today. felt like there was periods where i was pure thirsting for enough energy to press stuff. is that bad gear, bad play or just something that can happen sometimes?
glass mortar
all of the above
fathom bramble
good gear and playing well will drastically reduce the chance that it can happen
glass mortar
rare from rng, will only be from gear if you have a haste issue, most commonly from player mistakes
fathom bramble
if you feel like it's happening all the time then it's probably bad gear or bad play
weary cloak
yeah fair comments
winged depot
omg y'all chatted a ton here since I came hihi
covert kestrel
iirc zac was cooking ross every key
covert kestrel
omg y'all chatted a ton here since I came hihi
This channel is 95% yap
random stirrup
pandemic of course would be 26 seconds and I've gotten 34
have you ever seen higher than 34
34 is also the highest ive seen
late swallow
omg y'all chatted a ton here since I came hihi
Outlaw has some of the best yap
winged depot
So uhhn, I'm still deciding between some classes, I'm wondering if Outlaw is really as hard / carpal tunnel syndrome inducing as people say online?
I really love how the silly dice look when u throw em and I like classes i can optimize and train on a dummy
covert kestrel
Outlaw has some of the best yap
It's all the high apm junkies
fathom bramble
let me see if I can find it
I know I took an image of whatever my super high number was
late swallow
So uhhn, I'm still deciding between some classes, I'm wondering if Outlaw is rea...
“I love how the silly dice look” 
glass mortar
its not as bad as it should be on ur wrists because its a piano playstyle
you generally arent mashing 1 or 2 buttons at high apm, you are back and forth over a couple
so if you keybind well it can reduce wrist strain alot
fathom bramble
glass mortar
you are regularly hitting 6-7 buttons as outlaw tbh, much more regularly then most specs would
random stirrup
hmm
weary cloak
the worst thing about my test 7s today was trying to find a way to live with killing spree, it might be the worst ability ive ever seen in the game
i dont think it was taken last time i played
glass mortar
yea this is the first season we've seriously used it since early df
and in early df its usage was
much less punishing
winged depot
So its rough but it isn't unplayable? It gets a ton of hate on reddit like its a shitty spec x_x
weary cloak
i assumed it would work like blade dance, it does not
cinder relic
So uhhn, I'm still deciding between some classes, I'm wondering if Outlaw is rea...
A lot less than ppl say but it is a high APM class
among the highest in the game, for dps so
Take that information for how u will
fathom bramble
realistically typing for extended periods of time is significantly worse for your wrists than playing outlaw
good posture prevents wrist related injuries while gaming and outlaw is no exception
winged depot
I'm pretty good at Osu (over 1k hours) & my wrists are fine for now ;D
my posture is shit though i need to fix it
mighty pivot
realistically typing for extended periods of time is significantly worse for you...
that means that the yapper outlaws in this channel are doomed
weary cloak
is there any secret technique for using KS on Candleking?
cinder relic
fathom bramble
you need the tank to drag the boss the right distance away from candles
or you can just press it after a candlebreak only
random stirrup
38 
weary cloak
worth noting there as well that Prot paladin cheats a bit beacuse SOTR is off GCD
fallen mist
there is a macro to have both hero talents active?? saw zac talk ab it
grave carbon
is there any secret technique for using KS on Candleking?
For secret technique you want to go on the sub channel
mighty pivot
devokers are charging for like 5s per cast
fathom bramble
I remember when most classes were 40-60 apm and 70 would have been considered high
now we are pushing past 80
late swallow
worth noting there as well that Prot paladin cheats a bit beacuse SOTR is off GC...
Outlaw has a bunch of ogcd stuff too tho
glass mortar
70 still is high
cinder relic
worth noting there as well that Prot paladin cheats a bit beacuse SOTR is off GC...
How is that cheating?
fathom bramble
and almost no one is 40
random stirrup
worth noting there as well that Prot paladin cheats a bit beacuse SOTR is off GC...
i mean outlaw is also high for the same reason with vanish/gs/kir etc being offgcd
cinder relic
Off GCD skills are part of the rotation lol
fathom bramble
How is that cheating?
because sotr isn't an actual decision it's just pressed everytime you reach 3 holy power in a dps sim
winged depot
Do u guys like the spec tho? Enjoyable in M+ and potentially raids?
I mean ofcourse ur biased but ya
weary cloak
look to the prot paladin on your left, look to the prot paladin on your right. they will never admit they macro SOTR into Blessed Hammer and Judgement but we know the truth
cinder relic
and only players aren't macroing GS?
glass mortar
ogcds are less hectic because they arent as difficult to pull off as keeping ur gcd spinning with a fast gcd
and fwiw, like 30% of prot pallies apm
is that 1 single ogcd
xd
we are probably closer to 10% of our apm
weary cloak
and only players aren't macroing GS?
think you''re taking me a bit too seriously, i didnt mean to impugne our glorious brothers of the light
winged depot
Most of the stuff I've been playing i found the rotations rlly boring (and that isn't coming from eliitism at all),
Frost Mage,
Frost DK,
Arcane Mage,
MM hunter
I didn't play them at any respectable level tho but the rotations were just a few buttons over & over?
vivid vessel
think you''re taking me a bit too seriously, i didnt mean to impugne our gloriou...
vivid vessel
Most of the stuff I've been playing i found the rotations rlly boring (and that ...
outlaw isnt boring
big buttons
fast
quick
lot
boom boom
procs
winged depot
;D
winged depot
r u the one that made the WA i saw?
vivid vessel
and always wining
weary cloak
and you always have sprint available so when you move from side to side for no reason you feel like Sonic
vivid vessel
which weak auras
late swallow
think you''re taking me a bit too seriously, i didnt mean to impugne our gloriou...
Most of the channel are dudes like this btw
vivid vessel
i make a lot of weak aura
fathom bramble
I think havoc counts picking up souls as an action
it looks like they do, but they also assume that your actually moving around to pick them up intentionally below a specific fury level
maybe it's fair to count it idk
but it's like 20 actions per minute added to the apm
glass mortar
havocs apm is not fast rn its super inflated yea
valid kindle
it looks like they do, but they also assume that your actually moving around to ...
which you can do but that's not part of the apm y'know
winged depot
hi
lmao, does it make you any money? I remember opening it up and tyring to edit a weakaura and getting a headache after 20 min x_X
leaden folio
can someone link me a replay outlaw on gally mythic
have to prevent wype my guild with random ks use
cinder relic
what
fathom bramble
which you can do but that's not part of the apm y'know
yeah I think it depends on how you look at it
I wouldn't count it personally
winged depot
rogue mains insane finger strenght
fathom bramble
think you''re taking me a bit too seriously, i didnt mean to impugne our gloriou...
prot is kind of weird honestly
frail veldt
If you can't bench 275 are you even really an outlaw main
fathom bramble
on paper the apm is supposedly very high, but it just doesn't feel that way when so much of it is a meaningless filler spender
like it is literally high apm and a ton of spells
but it's just not the same as when you have a fast gcd
it's why simple spells cast per minute can be a misleading metric for how 'fast' a spec can feel
at least to me
glass mortar
ok so 35% of prot paladins apm is ogcds
weary cloak
yeah i like prot, i do some weekly keys on it and its high apm but its like ret in that it doesnt really matter if you miss a button or two because everything will be available again before you can get punished for the mistake anyway
proven ocean
@vivid vessel btw
glass mortar
even our ogcds is a mix of like 5 different ogcds tho
proven ocean
zac
glass mortar
prot pallas is literally 1 button
shrewd thunder
why does KIR never use ambush to gen combo points
vivid vessel
yes
proven ocean
i think u need to be less greedy with ur movements
glass mortar
because ambush cant proc pistol shot without the HO talent
vivid vessel
i think u need to be less greedy with ur movements
i wish i could
proven ocean
generally ur greeding alot i think and almost killing ppl
glass mortar
also meaning it does way less damage and generates way less CP
vivid vessel
i mean you just mean first boss rookery
i dont have a choice anyway
thats how you have to play outlaw rn
proven ocean
it was just a prime example, u were safe if u didnt move at all there
shrewd thunder
so use sinister strike in sub and outside
umbral verge
vivid vessel
it was just a prime example, u were safe if u didnt move at all there
i mean we were litteraly on top of each other
its just
shouldnt happen in the first place
thats all
glass mortar
yes u never ambush
covert kestrel
So its rough but it isn't unplayable? It gets a ton of hate on reddit like its a...
reddit has the worst takes on outlaw of all time. anytime i see the spec mentioned i can guarantee half of it is people complaining about "muh combat" and half who never played it for more than 30 minutes or 5 years ago
proven ocean
zac because im discussing this atm with farover, we never had issues with movements before in any of our runs until you joined
im not saying ur doing something wrong
you just have to be more careful abit
living > dps
shrewd thunder
okay, does KS give some type of energy boost or haste increase? sorry im new. I noticed after using it i tend to get hella energy regen
weary cloak
reddit has the worst takes on outlaw of all time. anytime i see the spec mention...
people get really dramatic over RTB RNG as well, speaking from my DF experience
vivid vessel
zac because im discussing this atm with farover, we never had issues with moveme...
i mean we just have to play the boss more carefully with me cause i cannot just go away and afk
frail veldt
okay, does KS give some type of energy boost or haste increase? sorry im new. I ...
It can proc fatal flourish
vivid vessel
like your dk was prolly doing
lime lake
glass mortar
well you generate close to half your energy from attacking
frail veldt
So it can give every that way
vivid vessel
thats not something i can do as outlaw
weary cloak
like it exists but its nowhere near people in places like reddit make it sound
frail veldt
But not directly
vivid vessel
we just pre spread
proven ocean
like your dk was prolly doing
our dk was always in melee
vivid vessel
its not hard
glass mortar
kspree uses 7 attacks in a very short time frame
proven ocean
he just didnt move too fast
glass mortar
so it tends to go energy positive yea
proven ocean
maybe u shouldn't press sprint on that boss at all
fathom bramble
reddit has the worst takes on outlaw of all time. anytime i see the spec mention...
trying to explain anything about outlaw to someone on reddit as proven to be impossible
glass mortar
this spec is so outlier to almost any spec in the game loktark
vivid vessel
outaw things
proven ocean
well yea true idk what i can do for u
glass mortar
i am very surprised its been allowed to exist in the state it is
proven ocean
i think its just an outlaw movement not just a you thing
glass mortar
ngl
proven ocean
because i remember being like you
fathom bramble
i am very surprised its been allowed to exist in the state it is
yeah I'm pleasently surprised as well
fathom bramble
maybe they are gearing up to a rework that will leave us all specless
vivid vessel
its just how outlaw is kinda
glass mortar
i hope not
covert kestrel
trying to explain anything about outlaw to someone on reddit as proven to be imp...
so annoying when there are clear and obvious QoL fixes that are needed but they get drowned out by all the casual andys who just say "gut the spec it doesnt work"
vivid vessel
you cant just play slow like other specs
shrewd thunder
what poisons does outlaw run
vivid vessel
but the solution is just to do good pre spread
vivid vessel
we did it well with the other grp earlier
dense bolt
maybe they are gearing up to a rework that will leave us all specless
Specless or speachless 
vivid vessel
if we just assign pre positions its really not bad at all
fathom bramble
so annoying when there are clear and obvious QoL fixes that are needed but they ...
I think people need to consider that not every spec is for them
glass mortar
out capstones are far too locked in
grave carbon
maybe they are gearing up to a rework that will leave us all specless
Just remove ks and is peak
weary cloak
i properly loved outlaw in late DF but when i saw the first version of the hero talents it was a big red flag
glass mortar
you can make crackshot a choice node meant to not play uhuh with the alternative
weary cloak
at least trickster isnt tied to Feint anymore, thats progress
glass mortar
rework GSW to give a non crackshot outlaw something to play with
rework ghostly strike because jesus christ enough already
fathom bramble
out capstones are far too locked in
we have 1 locked in capstone to be fair
and 3 flex capstones
cinder relic
How many builds do u expect the class to have at any given time
fathom bramble
that's more than like every other spec
glass mortar
i mean locked in like, they lock in a playstyle
cinder relic
U guys want a baby playstyle, a HO, a kir, and then an UHUH crackshot alternative too
glass mortar
viable builds? 1-2
cinder relic
So right now?
glass mortar
i dont ever imagine these builds competing with crackshot
haughty wigeon
we have 2 viable builds already tho
glass mortar
but non crackshot builds r like
cinder relic
HO and KiR
glass mortar
20% behind?
proven ocean
ok i get mythic jastor in 8 days not bad not bad cuh sheeeeeeeeeeweeeeeeeeeeeeesh cuh
haughty wigeon
crazy how this convo retstarted
glass mortar
i think u can do better then that
glass mortar
no?
cinder relic
what is HO and KiR
glass mortar
i just said i dont think a noncrackshot build would be strong?
no i didnt say i want 3 viable playstyles anywhere
a non crackshot outlaw its never gunna do the numbers
for players like us
but for the people that feel like they lost their outlaw when crackshot was added
surely they can make an alternative that isnt 20-30% behind always
because so much of the spec revolves around this setup
cinder relic
Thats how every spec in the game works to a degree
a centralizing playstyle around a capstone or general design goal
weary cloak
id like vanish and subterfuge to not be so important to outlaw specifically if we're wishlisting reworks
haughty wigeon
every spec has a core capstone
thats how the new talent trees are design
i dont think we should change to spec for the sake of changing it
glass mortar
i feel like crackshot uhuh playstyle is a bit too specialized to be the core aspect of a spec idk
they transform the flow of outlaw so much from what it was prior to DF s3
i mean i obviously dont care, i love crackshot, i hope it stays forever and continues to be the best playstyle
haughty wigeon
i still think uhuh is still a issue prone talent tho, but we cant just remove it without giving outlaw some sort of face lift
glass mortar
i do feel like theres room for them to improve a non crackshot tho for those people
haughty wigeon
and t hats something people dont like to talk about
cinder relic
Outlaw existed just fine before uhuh
craggy barn
they would need to revert enery nerfs if theu remove uhuh
haughty wigeon
i dont think outlaw can exist without crackshot now
weary cloak
i quite like uhuh but im not a rogue main
craggy barn
think that was implied with ur name
weary cloak
ssshhhh, dont tell anyone, ive infiltrated their group
fathom bramble
the problem with uhuh isn't an uhuh problem necessarily
the problem is that we are expected to have nearly 100% AR uptime, but don't have the tools to ensure that in a lot of realistic fights
weary cloak
affixes knocking you out of stealth between packs in M+ was a fun discovery
fathom bramble
we either need less AR from restless blades(uhuh is kind of to blame here) for less total uptime or we need something to help us maintain AR that isn't restless so we can ensure 100%
craggy barn
things in general doing it is fun 😉
fathom bramble
if your trying to fix specifically performance and viability based issues with massive AR uptime
craggy barn
stealthing but forgetting u have KS dot on is fun
glass mortar
i just want them to break the maintenance gameplay somehow
make it direct extensions
cinder relic
I had this talk with loktark before but thats sort of the cost of doing business with outlaw and restless blades
weary cloak
this might be adumb question - does KS end if the thing you originally cast it on dies?
glass mortar
yes
craggy barn
ok what if we got dust back
weary cloak
god damn
cinder relic
Sure you can remove UHUH, you can make it easier to maintain AR, you can make it so the spec isn't reliant on 98% AR uptime and we go back to 50%, but the benchmark just moves to that new location of "The damage of the spec is reliant on 100% uptime"
glass mortar
i mean if they want to give us a serious cd now it looks so dumb its funny
mighty pivot
what if every outlaw ability was vanish
craggy barn
huge
fathom bramble
right now restless feeds more damage into the rotation than it probably ever has
glass mortar
i personally think it would be healthy to cut outlaw down to 6 cp, cut FtH to 1 point maximum, reduce cdr and reduce cds if you want to to compensate for some
random stirrup
give outlaw a 20 minute cooldown big boom ability
glass mortar
the higher cdr u churn the more punishing downtime gets
fathom bramble
and the issue we have always had of needed to make every AR cast efficient is even worse from that as well as needing 100% uptime
glass mortar
my guildy was trying outlaw the other day and he was like "why the FUCK do you have a 6 minute cd"
brother thats a 50s cd sometimes
weary cloak
how about we all just settle for 2 more charges of grapnel
craggy barn
i forget, does trickster have a cdr node on ks and sec tech
glass mortar
its a bit wild
cinder relic
While its more extreme now than it used to be, but the same sort of complaint existed all throughout BFA, SL, DF. "The spec is balanced around 100% uptime yet some fights or dungeons cause us to lose uptime"
glass mortar
i think it has become more punishing with almost every change they made since then
obviously every melee gets punished somehow by downtime
the way we get punished right now
is very noticable gameplay wise
and very frustrating
moreso then it was df s1/s2 even
cinder relic
I don't even know how neccessarily true that is. I'm aware it feels worse, not trying to discredit feels, but I wonder how true that statement actually is
craggy barn
KIR being long cd is a huge nerf to training dummy build testing
cinder relic
Theres no way to really quanity it much either
craggy barn
2 weeks
cinder relic
"How much worse is the spec with uptime now compared to before"
fathom bramble
I don't even know how neccessarily true that is. I'm aware it feels worse, not t...
I think it's true to say that downtime is more punishing now than it has probably ever been
craggy barn
yea
craggy barn
yea i get back to great ench
fathom bramble
like I've been playing it a very long time and I feel it's truely different now than it was in like SL
proven ocean
my dps will go HARD
fathom bramble
by a lot
glass mortar
i dont know how it couldnt be, the spec is more reliant on AR and momentum, and cdr is higher then ever
cinder relic
I think it's true to say that downtime is more punishing now than it has probabl...
Yes but by how much is what I'm wondering about, but it's not something that I think you can actually quantify
vivid vessel
I don't even know how neccessarily true that is. I'm aware it feels worse, not t...
i mean
common ..
craggy barn
zac i ate france food am i op outlaw god now
glass mortar
cdr is like a direct linear scaling with uptime
the more cdr you generate the longer ur base cds are
lime lake
zac i ate france food am i op outlaw god now
eat more
glass mortar
the more useless regular time is for cooling them down
craggy barn
gdi
proven ocean
Yes but by how much is what I'm wondering about, but it's not something that I t...
downtime was so irrelevant back then
craggy barn
do i HAVE to eat a french tacos
proven ocean
to the level where
fathom bramble
in previous iterations of outlaw you could play around when you cast AR to not suffer too much of the downtime penalty(this is part of why I've wanted AR to have 2 charges for years)
proven ocean
outlaws in hihg keys
craggy barn
to be OL god
proven ocean
sent AR at a 5% hp mob
cuz
AR didnt matter much
xd
like
it legit did 0 impact to be in downtime
0 impact if u cc'ed
it was GREAT
outlaw was so good back then
like
i rly want old outlaw back
ngl
bfa outlaw was so good
and goated
dense bolt
So in a perfect world, what where and why do u do to ”fix” AR?
hollow temple
I want the old Ross back
craggy barn
make bte stun again
proven ocean
zac
haughty wigeon
yes
proven ocean
bfa outlaw
vivid vessel
all very different from each other
proven ocean
was SO GOOD
haughty wigeon
vivid vessel
i didnt play bfa
proven ocean
not even close
proven ocean
you too
vivid vessel
ty
hybrid crown
you seem sleepy
proven ocean
np
hybrid crown
def go get some sleep
fathom bramble
So in a perfect world, what where and why do u do to ”fix” AR?
there's a lot of nearly ideal options imo. you can target restless blades and reduce our cooldown to compensate, you can nerf AR in general and move some of the power it offers back to the core kit, or you can reduce the power of the other cooldowns that restless blades is effecting
the last option there is probably the worst one since we don't really want to have no good cooldowns
you can also rework how we get AR uptime so that it's not so closely linked to spending combo points
glass mortar
i think uhuh should just moderatly extend AR and guarentee AR everytime u stealth/vanish
fathom bramble
or make it so it no longer drops when interacting with a mechanic
balmy parcel
id say nerf all the rng options from rtb and just buff are base kit again
glass mortar
if u could just vanish and have an AR lasting the duration of ur crackshot window at any point
would feel so nice
fathom bramble
would feel so nice
I think this would feel a lot better, but wouldn't actually help your overall damage loss as much
craggy barn
make ar rng
frail veldt
So in a perfect world, what where and why do u do to ”fix” AR?
Pause out of combat honestly
Fuck it
fathom bramble
it might let you start crawling out of the AR hole sooner, but if you go into AR with no vanish to extend it then your just going to fall out of AR again without some kind of other intervention
glass mortar
well i said lower AR uptime around vanishes
so ur able to actually play the game here without AR
idk i do feel like 100% is just too much
frail veldt
That requires a lot of changes tbh
glass mortar
theres no viable variant of law rn that drops under 80% adr uptime
we used to have like 50-55%
dense bolt
whats the downside of AR being a passive, losing a button and insta cp/energy gains, (maybe can be attributed to something else?)
glass mortar
just makes the spec a bit less interesting
haughty wigeon
whats the downside of AR being a passive, losing a button and insta cp/energy ga...
that would be a change
cinder relic
Because the design a lot of things specs get around their major CD
fathom bramble
whats the downside of AR being a passive, losing a button and insta cp/energy ga...
it would technically fix the problem, but removes all skill cap/floor from interacting with AR
cinder relic
and making it into a passive would just be odd
haughty wigeon
that was a solution thrown around in havoc when meta was a 90%+ uptime cd
haughty wigeon
ya know since people like being in meta form cause "it looks cool"
proven ocean
@cinder relic i want slowe outlaw back, by slow i mean bfa outlaw
cinder relic
Yessir
haughty wigeon
and then add a new cd to take metas place as main cd
craggy barn
or eait
haughty wigeon
but i dont think it would work with outlaw due to how ingrain its engine is around cdr
glass mortar
i mean imo a passive adr would be a choice node talent with uhuh or something and it would be weaker then cd adr
so it would be a easier passive playstyle
cinder relic
What other spec in the entire game has a talent like this
"make your major CD passive"
deft terrace
outlaw will get a dumb down rework eventually, there's no escape
craggy barn
enhance no?
lime lake
ret
fathom bramble
Choice node with underhanded upper hand
Upper Hand: Spending combo points extends Adrenaline Rush and Blade flurry durations by x seconds per combo point spent. Additionally Blade flurry and Adrenaline rush cannot lose duration if you have not spent or generated combo points in the last 3 seconds
craggy barn
ascendance
lime lake
glass mortar
ret
cinder relic
ret doesn't
glass mortar
shaman
cinder relic
Ret has "wings activates on wake"
frail veldt
outlaw will get a dumb down rework eventually, there's no escape
Yeah they hinted at it in the one button rotation talk
cinder relic
Not "wings is always active"
frail veldt
ret doesn't
They do get wings passively when they wake though right?
dense bolt
Ye idk, i just never in my life want to have the feeling im getting when i get low/bad rng and lose AR and are pressing SS infinite amount of times without energy, something imo has to change to remove that feeling for me
frail veldt
Shaman has proc ascendence
lime lake
you didnt ask what spec has a talent that makes their major cd always active
you asked what spec has one that makes it passive
frail veldt
Or it had, idk if that's been reworked away
craggy barn
what if we had celerity as a chocie node
frail veldt
Ah
vivid vessel
Ye idk, i just never in my life want to have the feeling im getting when i get l...
I mean it wasnt like that before df s3
frail veldt
I mean always active is almost the same as just removing it
glass mortar
i dont think any spec has that but what spec has even close to 100% uptime on their major cd right now?
frail veldt
If a cd is baseline then it's not exactly a CD
glass mortar
is there a spec that isnt outlaw?
craggy barn
no
vivid vessel
Ok but outlaw has always been special
frail veldt
Shadow priest some seasons gets it
fathom bramble
frost has gotten pretty close in the past
frail veldt
In AOE
vivid vessel
You could have said the same in SL
frail veldt
It has almost perma void form
fathom bramble
I think they are more like 50% uptime rn though
vivid vessel
When we had 60%
glass mortar
a passive that makes it always on makes more sence for a major cd thats already supposed to be always active with good play no?
frail veldt
Fire mage in past seasons had insane combust uptime
frail veldt
a passive that makes it always on makes more sence for a major cd thats already ...
Not at all
Cuz the uptime is a reward for correct rotation
frail veldt
Making it passive just flattens the skill reward ratio
glass mortar
like "Adr now reduces your gcd to 0.9s and is always active"
fathom bramble
playing well is still way more vanish casts to be fair
vivid vessel
playing well is still way more vanish casts to be fair
And kir if you play the correct build
frail veldt
like "Adr now reduces your gcd to 0.9s and is always active"
Yeah that'd be interesting
fathom bramble
I don't think AR should be entirely passive, but it wouldn't remove the reward for efficient combo points usage
frail veldt
Should be easy enough to balance
glass mortar
yea i mean im just saying what i think a passive adr would look like, not that its necessarily a good idea. in my eyes this talent is never competative with uhuh
this is like a dadbuild gamer alternative
dense bolt
i just think that we are so used to having AR being an impactful spell when it comes to cp/energy/gcd etc and was just thinking that maybe just making it a passive and attributing some/all of the things that AR does rn to something else would be a refreshing segway to something better, but who knows, im just thinking out loud aswell
glass mortar
would work better with the 1 button macro xd
deft terrace
just make pistol shot the main filler 
fathom bramble
Rested Adrenaline: The effects of Adrenaline Rush now taper off over 20 seconds instead of ending instantly.
haughty wigeon
"make your major CD passive"
havoc
dense bolt
how would 2 charges of AR look
haughty wigeon
shattered destiny demonic
cinder relic
how would 2 charges of AR look
too strong for current outlaw most likely
hollow portal
For me the only serious problem with Outlaw is KS, If they fix this it would possibly be the most fun Outlaw I've played since Legion to the present day
fathom bramble
how would 2 charges of AR look
it would look very good
since you could functionally bank AR during times of high cooldown rate
and spend it later if you get unlucky or a mechanic
it wouldn't be even remotely slightly strong in sims or pure patchwerk
cinder relic
It also just makes everything tangentially related to casting AR way better
fathom bramble
but would do a lot in any realistic situation
dense bolt
would we not assume we would just send the 2nd charge for cps while in the first AR
haughty wigeon
They do get wings passively when they wake though right?
i think bel is refering to divine hammer
vivid vessel
too strong for current outlaw most likely
I mean we would go from having 95% uptime to 100%
haughty wigeon
which is very high uptime
cinder relic
U'd likely save it for losing AR, and then if you are about to overcap, for CP
vivid vessel
Idk about too strong
haughty wigeon
if you highroll on all your free spenders
cinder relic
I mean we would go from having 95% uptime to 100%
It's not just that though is the thing
fathom bramble
it would only make sense to send the 2nd AR for cp when those combo points are at their highest value or when you will overcap
frail veldt
It might actually help
cinder relic
Changes like this have a lot of cascading effects
vivid vessel
Changes like this have a lot of cascading effects
Ye but
We can't get more ADR uptime already
So like
Doesn't really change anything
For the cps I guess but it's not insane cp gen
craggy barn
lowers the skill floor
vivid vessel
Yea
frail veldt
It would probably give us more uptime
vivid vessel
Makes it easier for lower noobs
vivid vessel
And for harder uptime stuffs
craggy barn
zac
frail veldt
It would actually feel great
haughty wigeon
it will kill the bad feels of adr drop
hollow portal
The good thing would be that if you die you would have another AR ready to use, and not be embarrassed by giving basic attacks.
frail veldt
I think
cinder relic
It effects talent evaluation, it removes EVEN MORE rules related to being outside of AR, it effects fights that do have the rare downtime moments
craggy barn
why shit closed on monday
dense bolt
lowers the skill floor
U say that when u also could read solos bible in the outlaw faq
haughty wigeon
i dont think giving it a second charge will be the fix we think it is
frail veldt
why shit closed on monday
Memorial day?
cinder relic
It'd be a very strong fix
craggy barn
no france thing
cinder relic
It's like 2 vanish
frail veldt
Oh idk
cinder relic
Remember how 2 vanish was "just 1 extra vanish over a fight"
frail veldt
2 vanish was banger though
cinder relic
and then it effects like 10 different rules
frail veldt
Great change
vivid vessel
It's different tho guy
cinder relic
I agree but they have more effects than just "Oh you get +1 vanish casts over a fight"
vivid vessel
We already have 100% uptime
fathom bramble
but for AR all it lets you do is place those 5 free combo points in a more ideal spot
vivid vessel
On ADR
proven ocean
good morning zac
fathom bramble
OR lets you overcome a normally rotation ruining mechanic
proven ocean
how was sleep
vivid vessel
Yd
fathom bramble
and if it's too strong then tune the game idk
but I think it's a good targetted change for gameplay reasons
cinder relic
OR lets you overcome a normally rotation ruining mechanic
It also increases the value of LD as a talent, if we end up going back off sleight when tier goes away
I mean yeah I'm not saying don't make the change because tuning
vivid vessel
It also increases the value of LD as a talent, if we end up going back off sleig...
I mean ...
Barely lol
proven ocean
well
i think we will run both talents without tier potentially
sleight is now way better than before
vivid vessel
Not really
proven ocean
it gives 5 buff chance now
vivid vessel
It's more so that loaded is useless with the tier set
proven ocean
unlike before
vivid vessel
Ye but it's the tier that gives a lot
proven ocean
kinda
proven ocean
sleight was
like
max 6% iirc
less for sure but
not higher than 6
ye
5%
i just checked
fathom bramble
the talents might work against eachother too much to have both at once
loaded wants you to not spam RTB and just sit on 2
fathom bramble
sleight wants you to spam for 5
dense bolt
from what ive heard in here (maybe they are ironic cuz ks) but is that people are saying this is the best itteratation of outlaw, when personally its one of the worst for me (not talking bout ks) and ima just trying to understand why people feel that way
vivid vessel
It's my favorite version of outlaw
dense bolt
why
frail veldt
Honestly our current tier is gonna feel SO awful to lose
dense bolt
t
frail veldt
I kinda hate this set bonus
potent gyro
I’m too nervous to play such nervous gameplay
frail veldt
More so as ho
vivid vessel
I mean S3 outlaw was also good rem
But I prefer double vanish
And in S3 you didn't have bte that reset
frail veldt
Currently outlaw ignoring KS is BANGER
frail veldt
Best it's ever been imo
dense bolt
didnt ace procs gets nerfed this season or the one prior
frail veldt
Ever since I started playing outlaw which is DF lol
hollow portal
x2 I love this outlaw, KS is the only problem.
proven ocean
@vivid vessel btw
vivid vessel
didnt ace procs gets nerfed this season or the one prior
No
proven ocean
i think we have alot of time on +20 like we can time it wiht 2-3 min left
cuz now i have sanguine blades
makes things way faster
dense bolt
wdym
dense bolt
i might make shit up but wasnt it %
haughty wigeon
i think my favorite part of DF outlaw
was how casuals who disliked vanished
got us 2 charges of vanish due to some shadowdance hate
dense bolt
i think that was mostly blizz seperating the class identities more when they removed sd from law
cinder relic
lime lake
timber knoll
would it be op if our buffs didnt dwindle while we were in stealth
latent oak
ya probably
cinder relic
Insane kir buff
latent oak
Nervous gameplay
this is v good way to describe whats good about outlaw