outlaw

[proven ocean]

does what u say

[red zinc]

aaa

[proven ocean]

like

we fail things

but

those things never happen again

[vivid vessel]

Ye

[proven ocean]

unlike pugs

pugs fail things

but

those fails happen over and over again

im certain my deaths in priory wont happen again, i just didnt know the pull was this dangerous

im kinda playing full dps gear

so anything can kinda kill me

[vivid vessel]

I always pre feint the jump

[proven ocean]

ye will do that everytime next time

[red zinc]

@proven ocean wym pugs are great this is a great pull i definitely think we should try it again

[vivid vessel]

But tbf im also way tankier I don't even need to do it

[vivid vessel]

[red zinc]

TWO TIMES BRO

[vivid vessel]

Double big AOE dude

[red zinc]

WE TRIED IT A SECOND TIME

HOW

[vivid vessel]

Definitely the play

[proven ocean]

we're highest rio atm zac ?

[vivid vessel]

Beautiful cuh

[red zinc]

me next

[proven ocean]

i think we can get resil 20

[red zinc]

check back tomorrow

[proven ocean]

easily

we time psf+rookery with you

[vivid vessel]

Ye for sure

[proven ocean]

and ws with a feral

then u get ws with us

and its gg

[vivid vessel]

Legit if it wasn't for ks

Workshop would be ok

Idk it's just very hard xd

[proven ocean]

if it wasnt for ks we'd 1 shot ws

[vivid vessel]

Ks is so weird

[proven ocean]

u have no idea

how easy ws is

lol

its like

10 times easier than the floodgates we did

easier than ML 20 prob even

[red zinc]

also am i cooked or is top like

the 3rd easiest dungeon

that shit feels so fast now idk

[vivid vessel]

Ye top is easy

• it's one of the easiest ks dungeon

So chill

[red zinc]

6m left on the 16 with two people doing 3m dps

crazy to me

[vivid vessel]

Like some keys are so hard with killing spre

You have to be the giga best gamer

On 4 RedBull injections

[red zinc]

just react with sprint on each individual ks movement

so you dont get hit

0.5x gameplay speed when

[lime lake]

ks causes the entire game to go into bullet time

huge buff

[red zinc]

ngl

that gives me an idea

aug with their time manipulation getting something that just slows down mobs (or even timer) would go crazy thematically

broken as fuck

im somewhat glad i have to play through all these key levels again

really need the reps ngl

slowly improving though

[civic zephyr]

What's a good Ilevel for normal raids? I thought I was good at 610, but I was doing less than healers.

[keen belfry]

does arms do zero dmg

[vivid vessel]

in keys ?

no

its good

[civic zephyr]

Arms warrior in PvP is BUSTED

[keen belfry]

wiped on last boss FG 17

[vivid vessel]

awang

till you get to doing 21s

[keen belfry]

these ppl suck?

[vivid vessel]

the guy that will be doign the most damage in your keys

will be the best player

[keen belfry]

ye

[vivid vessel]

not the best spec

[keen belfry]

i agree

but like

[vivid vessel]

its very hard to do damage in m+

[keen belfry]

losing by 1.3mil dps?

[vivid vessel]

people are very bad at doing damage ion m+

yes

[keen belfry]

i fully agree

[white marten]

Wow, your bottom dps was 5m? I cant find pugs that do more than 2.5 overall.

[keen belfry]

ive had to sit down with my guildies and be like

bro

you are losing to me in our keys

becuz

🙂

you are playing worse 🙂

[vivid vessel]

ye lol

buddyu will lose as udhk after rerolling

to an outlaw

and be like

wtf outlaw op

[proven ocean]

Zac

[white marten]

Za

[keen belfry]

i play with guildie balance druid

and hes like bro you steal all my dmg

im like 🙂

no 🙂

[proven ocean]

I thought about rookery i think we will have way too much dps on the 20

Cuz i do way more than udk

On that key specifically sin is super op

[white marten]

“Bro your stealing all my dmg” in a 19 is crazy work

[proven ocean]

Let alone outlaw too

[white marten]

0 burst

Lol

[proven ocean]

Cuz udk is rly bad in rookery imo

[keen belfry]

wouldve gone down a little bit, cuz we wiped on alst boss

last

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel

[white marten]

Still way better than anything ive had so far on my rogue. Im typically gapping at least one dps by 1m+

Although outlaw overalls this season are on the higher side

Still

[keen belfry]

i think im returning to form

on this spec

[white marten]

Outlaw is such a comfortable spec. Very convenient. I always come back to it

[red zinc]

nifty! yowza 🤠

[white marten]

Now we just need a party buff, or a battlerez, or lust.

[red zinc]

i still think 3% crit would be fitting for rogue

but eh

[white marten]

3% attack speed

[red zinc]

ass

[white marten]

Na thats garbage

Ye

[latent oak]

raid buffs are cringe

shame they are so powerful

[white marten]

True. Just give rogues more dam

Yall remember that rogue party buff that was so OP they scrapped it before release?

[red zinc]

if they fully uncapped bf right now like in bfa

what would the overalls be lookin like

in priory lets say

9m?

[latent oak]

if outlaw was uncapped rn we would be best spec in the game surely?

[white marten]

8-9m ez

[red zinc]

of course

just random thought

would be turbo broken

[latent oak]

ya triple outlaw keys would be running the ladder xd

[white marten]

+24s, all Outlaws

[vivid vessel]

okok

good

[peak dock]

if im 2/8M is my 2nd dinar going to seaforium or geargrinder keys?

[white marten]

Raise the cap to 10 targets. 😌

[red zinc]

dont take keys

[peak dock]

keys are simming higher but seaforium is on the list so im asking

[red zinc]

if you're an m+ player

[peak dock]

explain

[latent oak]

why not keys are good

[white marten]

Keys are good bro

[red zinc]

because it misses on like half the bosses

or the ones that matter anyway

cringe ass trinket

[latent oak]

isnt it just kyrioss when he is in middle?

it hits last boss rookery

[red zinc]

last boss rookery and workshop both

[white marten]

Ah, so like KS? Very appropriate to outlaw then

[latent oak]

last boss rookert it hits

[red zinc]

send me a log where it does that

ive tried everything

it isnt hitting

[white marten]

Could always go Whistle if your focus is m+ and u dont play assa or sub

Which rogue spec is tankier ? outlaw or Sub?

[red zinc]

why would it be sub

[vivid vessel]

outlaw i think

[white marten]

Nice

[latent oak]

oh shit u right

[vivid vessel]

subg got shields and shit when it vanishes

[latent oak]

i swear when fighting that dude ive seen it on details

[vivid vessel]

and a max hp shield perma

[latent oak]

but cant find it in logs

[vivid vessel]

on its head

[red zinc]

it doesnt hit

doesnt hit either on p2 workshop last boss

[red zinc]

idk these are miniscule things but

not having a trinket on those bosses

fuckin ass

[red zinc]

would rather just take something else

[red zinc]

elusiveness evasion too op

[vivid vessel]

ye

i think outlaw is better defensivelly

but sub is right up there

[latent oak]

my beloved

[red zinc]

dude

3rd boss BRH

was made for us

omg

[vivid vessel]

sub also plays with giga vers so

ye

[white marten]

That cuts the CD by about a third?

[red zinc]

evasion came back right exact correct time

incredible

[vivid vessel]

Bro outlaw is such a crazy fun spec

I wish ks wasn't a thing

I would be having so much fun rn

[white marten]

Facts

[vivid vessel]

Like actual infinite fun

[red zinc]

you're gonna wish ks is a thing after the rework comes through

[white marten]

Unlimited fun

[cinder oxide]

"rework"

[vivid vessel]

Probably

[white marten]

Until blizzard finds a way

[red zinc]

not to doom but they fuckin it up for people that enjoy this build for sure

shits going to be thrown overboard if they ever decide to put in effort

[white marten]

I doubt Outlaw is getting a rework

[red zinc]

is what it is

[vivid vessel]

I'm a bit scares that instead of fixing current outlaw finally they would rework stuffs again

And start over

And we are back square one

[red zinc]

i mean yeah

[vivid vessel]

Like I Wana play this versiom of outlaw

[red zinc]

ideal world they just fix KS

[vivid vessel]

Without ks

[proven ocean]

If outlaw gets its shit on bte instead of ks i’ll insta play outlaw

[red zinc]

but more likely it takes another year before they do anything and then midnight release bricks the entire spec

[proven ocean]

That shit is just trash man

[white marten]

So basically fatebound if fatebound wasnt dog shit

[red zinc]

idk man

[white marten]

Thatd be mad OP

[vivid vessel]

Ye but fatebound is dogshit

[red zinc]

lizzard has like 2% goodwill with me rn

theyre trying

but damn it aint easy to believe

[proven ocean]

Zac imagine if outlaw gets uncapped

[white marten]

Zac imagine if KS gets removed

[proven ocean]

Triple outlaw again without any doubts

[orchid oracle]

zac imagine if detect traps is a dps gain

[white marten]

Zac imagine if misdirection buffed the tank

[red zinc]

imagine if pick pocket gave the enemy mobs 100% damage dealt reduction

🔊

[proven ocean]

Zac imagine if everyone imagined what ur imagining

[white marten]

I think he blocked us all

[proven ocean]

gg

[white marten]

Lets
Make another account

[vivid vessel]

[white marten]

Put cloaked in shadows on the class tree blizz. Wtf

[fathom bramble]

some of the old artifact weapon traits are also good candidates for the class treee

[hollow temple]

of all classes

i hate warri the most

giga dumb players

bricked 19 ML

[white marten]

What they do?

Tank dps?

[hollow temple]

always die in shit

arms/fury

[keen belfry]

are raid buffs op

im doing so much with this phys comp

[hollow temple]

i rather have warri tank than dps

better WW monk

actual ST burst

[white marten]

Were the only ones allowed to die in shit cuz ks

[hollow temple]

somehow im cursed i never die in ks 😦

[white marten]

Blizz needs to remove hero from the game

Nothing like seeing a group with a VDH, Priest, Boomie, and War and knowing theres 0 shot you’re getting an invite

[civic zephyr]

Same happens in PvP, warrior brain is a real phenomenon XD

[next wedge]

i havent seen dps warr in a long time

they kinda suck in keys

[tender wedge]

Doesn’t arms go ok?

[red zinc]

arms is really there for the buff

They’re ok though

[next wedge]

got a +2 15

op

[wintry solar]

@true cedar do you use Improved Main Gauche?

[proven ocean]

@true cedar do you use Improved Main Gauche?

[wintry solar]

Is he really a mastery stacker if he doesn't take imp main gauche?

[hollow temple]

@proven ocean do you use improved Main Gauche?

[proven ocean]

@proven ocean do you use improved Main Gauche?

[hollow temple]

[hollow temple]

truee

[hollow temple]

agree

[true cedar]

Value of Mastery only goes up fellas 😎

[hollow temple]

wdym

[wintry solar]

we love this guy

truly a mastery believer

[hybrid crown]

Give outlaw hero

Rogue in general

Mage and hunter get it why not

What should rogue hero be called

[hollow temple]

valeera is my only heroine

[frank finch]

why is my bte mouseover not working

[gaunt phoenix]

is it on yer bar

[proven ocean]

is it on yer bar

[hollow temple]

can you actually have 2x crafted rings?

[gaunt phoenix]

Yes

[buoyant stratus]

Triple outlaw priory 18

I forgot to reup blade flurry for 3 packs

Because im so used to deft maneuvers

Oops

[cinder oxide]

that bear is a really nice guy i like them

[cedar kernel]

have a nice day brothers

[past falcon]

me too

[wintry solar]

holy shit I hate vanishing

I love shit resetting

and I cant not vanish because energy sucks

[modest scarab]

Is there a point or stat distribution where KiR will be better to play than HO?

[hidden bay]

you want 20% haste and its always better than ho

[tulip jewel]

the higher keys get the more commonly I die in last tick of spree before stagger to something dumb I shouldn’t have

a puddle 1 ticking last tick of spree is so cooked

[quasi notch]

I used to only play kir but since i started higher keys 17-18 i feel like HO is bette

[storm drum]

i had this discussion with Zac HO iis easier and sims better in all situations.....he only plays KiR becaue he likes it and his entire raid plays around him and into him lmao

[frank finch]

uhh

kir is better in higher keys

everything else u said about ho is right

[thorn river]

KiR is love

[zealous plinth]

I mean most top logs are KiR but HO is pretty even I think. Its just personal preference I guess

Btw do I want to hit the 20% haste as kir or at 18%+ just trust the robot?

[opaque oxide]

hey, before i start reading the faq, how different is outlaw rn compared to s4 of df

[quasi notch]

Idk i just think that kir requires way more uptime and is better if you are 5 stacking with comms for cc but in pugs its HO all the way

[fathom bramble]

always trust the robot of course and it'll move around a bit based on the gear you actually own, but the target is 19.05%

there is a significant dropoff in haste value past that point but being above or below that by a small amount is not unusual

[zealous plinth]

Robot says 18.36% for me and doesn’t want me to swap gems / enchants to haste

[fathom bramble]

for kir?

[zealous plinth]

Yes

[fathom bramble]

that seems slightly unusual

[zealous plinth]

Yeah I was wondering as well ^^

[fathom bramble]

can you link the sim?

[zealous plinth]

Not atm cause I’m at phone ,I can later

Maybe cause I only have 30% vers?

But it even wants me Vers crit gems > vers haste

[fathom bramble]

I don't have a good explanation

but now I want to look into kir haste more since last time I checked it tended towards 19.05% pretty heavily

which is the exact point that haste + alacrity gets you the 25% cap for AR gcd reduction

[random stirrup]

is it having your entire raid play around you to play a 1% worse build

especially if u still gap every other outlaw

[zealous plinth]

Wouldn’t that only be 24.05% with alacrity?

[fathom bramble]

alacrity like all % haste boosts increases your haste and adds to it

[zealous plinth]

Ah ok

[fathom bramble]

1.1905 • 1.05 gets you the final haste number

[zealous plinth]

maybe due to dslice sim and BL?

I’ll send you the sim later

[fathom bramble]

yeah idk

all my checking was done on patchwerk to be fair

if haste is just so worthless at high values that you don't even care to top off the GCD reduction in aoe that'd explain it

[zealous plinth]

Gonna sim both when at pc

But I think even patchwork it gave me same results, not 100% sure though

[fathom bramble]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[sage zodiac]

How can I keep the ADR above 90% as much as possible? I can only keep it at 80%.😭

[fathom bramble]

every part of the rotation contributes to it

[zealous plinth]

Max uptime don’t die most likely ^^

[fathom bramble]

so low ADR uptime has no single fix without a lot more analysis

I would familiarize yourself with the faq and other helpful info in the discord guide and just try to play better

[sage zodiac]

Is there any explanation for the advanced way to roll the dice?
I always feel like I am rolling the dice all the time.

[fathom bramble]

there is a RTB explanation in the faq

but if your playing ho it is basically rerolling until you get 5 buffs

assuming you have tier

[frail veldt]

its more of a skill distribution where kir is better than HO

[wicked sorrel]

Guys, I heard Echoing void is currently bugged, is this correct?

[fathom bramble]

yes

for some reason the proc rate of Echoing void is approximately half of what it should be

[wicked sorrel]

just checking the pins now- currently not worth taking?

[fathom bramble]

yeah

go TD or gushing wound

[wicked sorrel]

happily going TD! miss the days of Outlaw bfa proccing it

[alpine valve]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[leaden folio]

where ra'den corruption

[next wedge]

guy are u gonna write the wowhead article for midseason retrospective + wish list

[wintry solar]

He already did. We're just waiting for it to drop

[next wedge]

ahh wowhead timegates just like blizz

cute ❤️

[wintry solar]

I can tell what's on it

Killing Spree bad

Hero trees bad

[next wedge]

yup

i just wanna see it on the website bc last time he wrote something he got a bunch of bugs fixed lol

[gleaming lagoon]

!prepull

[next wedge]

might he even say

target cap bad

[wintry solar]

There were other forces at play then

[gleaming lagoon]

what was it guys? 😦

[wintry solar]

!prekey

[next wedge]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB as you enter the dungeon to get 2 Supercharger stacks.
• DO NOT RTB again inside the bubble as you will lose the supercharger stacks, similarly do not AR early inside the bubble or you will lose the combo points.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open on pack with AR into BtE.

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB as you enter the dungeon to get 2 Supercharger stacks.
• DO NOT RTB again inside the bubble as you will lose the supercharger stacks, similarly do not AR early inside the bubble or you will lose the combo points.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open on pack with AR into BtE.

[gleaming lagoon]

thanks ❤️

[wintry solar]

[next wedge]

shouldnt you AR as soon as bubble drops

it just help cd a little more

than right on pack

i guess if you're fb you want the dmg proc

[craggy barn]

[wintry solar]

TWW got me wanting to play a different expansion >.>

not even a bad expac

[next wedge]

idk why but this week i've been having a lot of fun

i pushed like +150 io to 3233

[wintry solar]

ive been doing visions non stop

[next wedge]

after sitting on basically 3k for months

[wintry solar]

good time

[next wedge]

i dont like them that much?

i want to farm the rewards but

not doing that shit for fun after

[wintry solar]

I know I am

[next wedge]

what do you like about it

like i just need to know if im missing something

[wintry solar]

I do a little better each time

theres strategy and stuff

[next wedge]

i do like progging keys

maybe if i looked at it more like that

[wintry solar]

right now I only have 2 masks and im having a hard time completeing everything

so I have a goal

[leaden folio]

i ve done 4 mask. but i dont have the spirit for tryhard the 5 mask

[gleaming lagoon]

-50% sanity breaks your back -.- did it as sub and mobs are hitting like trucks too

[wintry solar]

yeah thats the mask thats screwing me lol

[gleaming lagoon]

invisible "surprise packs" in mage quarter were fucking me up royally 😄

[wintry solar]

mage quarter is a bitch

[gleaming lagoon]

they added a lot of truesight mobs with the new mask^^ multitudes? no sneaking allowed

[wintry solar]

its fun though

[gleaming lagoon]

imagine vial on cd and sitting down to eat

[wintry solar]

yeah the healer NPC is something else

she jumps around so much

[gleaming lagoon]

nah did 4 masks only solo without npc

[wintry solar]

why

[gleaming lagoon]

only read that mob health scales like hell when yu have her with you

[wintry solar]

I havent noticed

personally

I like not having to sit down and eat >.>

[gleaming lagoon]

gonna give it a try next time^^

[jolly geyser]

the real endgame

[wintry solar]

Ramlu gets it

[shy sandal]

how many masks is that one

[vocal forge]

Hey guys, I normally play assa but wanted to play some outlaw again. What changes to M+ talents would you recommend given I have lots of mastery? Till I get some more haste/vers

[jolly geyser]

bfa raid

[dense bolt]

morning guys

what a beautiful saturday no?

[magic shuttle]

Rainy day

[dense bolt]

we love saturdays tho

big vibes

[acoustic mason]

Hey, would you say that rogue is squishy or tanky if the cd's are used right (especially m+)? I heard people argue about this but Id like to hear the opinion of other rogue players about this.

[magic shuttle]

Outlaw is very tanky considering feint and evasion are affected by cdr and you get the extra health% talent

[strong cargo]

You play with 15% dr from vers, then you have access to feint/evasion all the time for extra 20%dr, you are very tanky if you use them well, + healthpot/cloak when you need so almost unkillable, and then you press ks 💀

[acoustic mason]

ty for your input :)

[zealous plinth]

„And then you press ks“

[strong cargo]

Imo it's a bit of an affix if you think about it. They removed affixes at 12+ keys but outlaw still need to think every 20s about how safe ks is, where should i go to press it, should I cloak before, maybe use low cp... a lot of your focus goes into it

[zealous plinth]

Most of the time it’s Not worth to send low cp. I did calculate the dmg we lose sending at low cp compared to Holding once. And in the end it’s worth to hold for like 5-6sec if you then can send it at Full cp. (Took the cdr into it we‘d lose by Holding)

And that’s basically what my Testing in keys resulted as well

[gleaming lagoon]

just did first key as outlaw this season
and first ever as trickster outlaw

like.... who signed this?

[inland acorn]

How would you calculate that, when there's so many factors

[frank finch]

we figure out what this is yet

[leaden folio]

its 100% a item from bfa

champion ilvl

[frank finch]

yea but how u get it

[leaden folio]

so might be m0 loot

[jolly geyser]

was some bugged WQ

[leaden folio]

y

might be mecagon wq

[jolly geyser]

or ML

[frank finch]

u cant go into mechagon

[zealous plinth]

Take the dmg you Deal at a Full cp, at low cp, take the cdr you’d lose

Like you can calculate the dmg you lose if you send low cp and compare the dmg you lose Holding 5-6sec, and the Delay on Next ks and so on

[leaden folio]

there was a wq at the start of the season in ML wich you can get a ilvl for this season

might be same thing

[zealous plinth]

I did it with an AI though

[leaden folio]

but 100% can't get it now

[quaint sable]

Doesnt account for losing chances at revealing strikes + finisher dmg from trickster tree

There a lot u gain just from pressing ks

[zealous plinth]

AI Said it’s worth Holding for up to 10sec and actually I had Same results when I tested it in keys. Feels better to hold.

[long barn]

Is there something special about it

Why do you want it

[zealous plinth]

Yeah but when I compare my logs where I hold vs where I send low cp it feels Like AI was Right

[leaden folio]

its low ilvl and this was a bug at the start of the season

[zealous plinth]

• if you watch zac he barely sends low cp 🤣

Most of the time you don’t need to hold for more than 2-3sec anyways

The diff is marginally though. But for me it feels better to just hold most of the time

Like even dfc candle Boss i had same amount of ks, sending low. Cp or just send in between the add spawn time frame at Full cp

[worldly shale]

Tbh i just hold for 5+ because of the WA shotgun sound, to each their own ig

[zealous plinth]

Yeah the diff is really really small

But sending low cp ks feels weird imo

[worldly shale]

Sometimes it is better tho, circles flying i rather just take a 2cp for flawless

then get hit in that shitty spell

[zealous plinth]

I mostly just send Full there and try to hook out in time 🤣

[worldly shale]

THAT too, im looking while jumping around
where was i? there? or there? if i hook left bottom corner will i get out in time?

its like a survival game

fun

[zealous plinth]

💯

[worldly shale]

would be way better if camera didnt move XD

like it stays where we are gonna exit

[zealous plinth]

No risk no fun

[worldly shale]

gambling addict spec

[velvet dagger]

at the start of the patch you could de M0 mechagon and the loot could be from the Junkyard part at champion upgrade track (many people farmed haste ring)

[remote pike]

https://tenor.com/view/joe-biden-presidential-debate-huh-confused-gif-9508832355999336631

after ks

where the fk i am

[frank finch]

dam unlucky

[worldly shale]

https://tenor.com/view/john-travolta-where-am-i-lost-confused-huh-gif-4487040

[gritty chasm]

How is possible to use 6 spenders in a row?

[quick quail]

isn't it just the dispatch proc off BTE?

[quaint sable]

has to be otherwise youd have a gcd of like .375 😄

[gritty chasm]

ty ty :d

[frank finch]

well

have to link ace

[hardy thicket]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[drowsy pebble]

yo do we bind on use trinkets to any specific ability or just slam when needed on separate keybind?

[fallen knot]

you could bind damage trinkets to pretty much everything but in a way that they dont go off when you exist stealth, i personally have a macro that uses both trinkets bound to a separate keybind

because in certain cases you might want to hold for a vulnerability window

[drowsy pebble]

thanks dude

[fallen knot]

vulnerability like 1st boss of the raid, last boss of rookery, 1st boss of motherlode etc

[ebon reef]

for OAB, would you consider patchwerk or hectic more accurate of a sim?

[hidden bay]

ST

[rapid chasm]

Tried trickster for the first time. Died 6 times in motherload, KS every time... I'm not built to not press the button man.

[vivid vessel]

Idk I prefer sending low than holding

If I can

It's just not always easy to do

[zealous plinth]

Mhm barely saw it in your streams ^^

[vivid vessel]

Ye because most of the times sending a low cp ks is just as hard as sending a high cp one

If I'm gonna die from. Ks I'm dying anywya

Idk

[zealous plinth]

Yep

Or when you want to send low co you get CP resets and you can’t send either 🤣

[vivid vessel]

Ye

[proven ocean]

[vivid vessel]

• also my brain has difficulties not pressing a builder

[vivid vessel]

Ross

I talked with razhag

They do 4 phase in mdi

While being 675 ilvl

Sooo

[proven ocean]

4 phase is easy

[vivid vessel]

There is no reason we won't have the timer to 4 phase aswell

If they do it with 10 less ilvl

[proven ocean]

I told u mage does way more dps

In rookery

They gain time from that

But ye we should be fine with our dps

[vivid vessel]

Brother they are 10 ilvl under us

[proven ocean]

Udk dps is bad in rookery

[proven ocean]

Ye doesnt matter cuz mage doubles everyone’s dps on some packs

And some areas

[vivid vessel]

If you are talking about 21

Then ye maybe

[proven ocean]

We had 2 death only rookery 20

We pulled last boss with 5:20 ish

It was just an udk thing

So it doesnt matter

We should have enough time for 4/5 phase with our comp so ye

[leaden folio]

udk problem is

player

not the class

[rigid basin]

Blood beast walking around after the pack is dead is kinda funny, you know the dk is dying a little inside cuz of that

[zealous plinth]

Zac how much dps you do on last boss rookery?

[proven ocean]

Yea i just magically gap 3 of the best udk’s in europe

Definitely not a class problem

[desert tendon]

U so good zero

I wish i was all like u

Owning oil like a king

[patent igloo]

guys how much dmg difference is from maghar orc to dwarf? is it worth to change faction?

[fast axle]

So ?
wilight Devastation OR Gushing Wound

[stiff hawk]

@rotund zodiac What build di you use for 5 masks

[rotund zodiac]

you saw my vid? xd

[stiff hawk]

Yes

Just normal Ho ST build?

or AOE?

[rotund zodiac]

this

[dense bolt]

is there a giga farm vid somewhere

did flushies cook

[rotund zodiac]

can I post a vid here or it's against server rules

[dense bolt]

ugh

[rotund zodiac]

yea, no advertising. rip

[slate plaza]

would yall craft a chest piecve

[stiff hawk]

Did you use normal rings

or did you ahve the siren isle ring

[rotund zodiac]

this one

I was abusing magnet stacks as well

[vivid vessel]

@fallen knot

hwere you at

[vivid vessel]

idk

its hard to say

what you really wanna know is how much you do on damage amp

[slate plaza]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fsmPqgQNgn3AweVi3YHxd7

am i reading this right

6.8% increase

[leaden folio]

average outlaw player be like : https://www.reddit.com/r/oddlysatisfying/comments/1ku8wat/just_the_insane_accuracy_of_this_guy/

[slate plaza]

the fuck slot is that ring going into? over cyrclet?

[vivid vessel]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/2TWnD1yQM7trFR3K?fight=15&type=damage-done&pull=14&pins=2%24Off%24%23244F4B%24expression%24absorbeddamage%3D0&start=7896031&end=8233316&target=278 @zealous plinth this is the best log i have if we cut the 5th phase cause we let the boss at like 0% cuase trolling

idk a better way to show last boss performance

i think i can do more things for damage amp damage tho

im not playing much around it rn

@proven ocean did you know

we let an add spawn

in that key

on last boss

[slate plaza]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[fluid iron]

if its within context of the conversation at hand it is fine, just no blatant self adverts

[hybrid crown]

Having on use trinkets is nice for that one

[sly cairn]

im kinda new to tww outlaw, do you need to gear up to 17% haste to hit the breakpoint through gear then funnel the rest of stats into crit/vers?

or is it fine if i hit the breakpoint through buffs

[slate plaza]

there isnt really a breakpooint

the spec doesnt change if you have more or less haste

[gaunt phoenix]

your circlet appears to have no gems

[slate plaza]

it just feels better if you fuick up or starve
but you will really like haste until then

[slate plaza]

yeah i noticved

must of taken them off yesterday and forgot

[hybrid crown]

Sims help but generally you want more vers than crit after you hit the right amount of haste

[stiff glade]

Doesn't matter how you get there, just make sure you have enough haste at all times. Haste flask and stuff is all good

[proven ocean]

5 phases? What

[hybrid crown]

Lots of haste vers pieces, then some crit vers

[sly cairn]

so basically after 17% the spec becomes much more forgiving to play and the stat allocation should go to vers/crit or what?

[hidden bay]

this group knows whats up

[vivid vessel]

we let the boss at 0 hp in the last one

[proven ocean]

And why’s that

[vivid vessel]

but it was fucked cuase we had a lil add spawn ross

xd

[slate plaza]

raidbots broken for anyone

[vivid vessel]

we didnt wait for cooldwons

at all

cause we had infinite time

[proven ocean]

Ok i think i’ll have you swap to sub then

Dmg seems incredibly low for fast shield phases

[vivid vessel]

its not

we will 4 phase anywya ross

[proven ocean]

Not with sub stop saying that

[vivid vessel]

ye but there is no reason to do a 3 phase

on 20

[proven ocean]

There is a reason because we’re the only comp that can do it

[vivid vessel]

and on 21 its prolly not possible to 3 phase

[proven ocean]

Im not gonna discuss this too much

[gaunt phoenix]

if you are playing the KIR build, you need to strictly get 19% haste from gear (+ flask if necessary). This is so you have 25% haste during adrenaline rush after alacrity

If you are playing the HO build, you need to get at least 10% haste from gear+flask, but it still likes more haste for energy, it tends to settle between 14-18%

after you have haste then yes it is vers/crit, mostly vers

[proven ocean]

Especially when we’re trying to solve certain problems within certain keys

20 is a huge jump from 19

[gaunt phoenix]

did u select them

if you have this ticked, with no gems selected, it will override them to nothing

[stiff hawk]

The Potion spawns were literally god like from your video

wtf

[ivory ember]

man when Zac open stream i feel like outlaw is totally broken and meta, when i enter key i feel complete garbage

[late swallow]

Dont feel bad bro

[proven ocean]

Joe mama

[late swallow]

Zac is literally the best outlaw

[rotund zodiac]

[ivory ember]

he is cracked man

[proven ocean]

Our m+ team is cracked rn @late swallow Idk if u saw

Best warrior best sin best outlaw best resto healer

[late swallow]

You guys blasting?

When 21s

[proven ocean]

Ye we blasted 20 floodgates

21s should be ez too ye

[late swallow]

Lets fucking go

King shit

[proven ocean]

Our big momma kill was like

22-28 sec faster than yoda’s run

[late swallow]

People are saying arcane is better than sin

Fake news?

[proven ocean]

Nah real news

Arcane is way better because it’s funnel is in a rly short window

[leaden folio]

not on my elo

[proven ocean]

While sin is just consistent funnel which is almost kinda mid

[late swallow]

[red zinc]

@proven ocean how do you skip bubbles as rogue

[vivid vessel]

you mean shroud or

[red zinc]

idk tank is asking me to "skip big fish"

no clue what he wants from me

[vivid vessel]

you do it with shroud

do you have dk or shaman

you need either dk or shaman to give water walking to the whole group

then you shroud under the bridge where bubble is

[red zinc]

well now he's asking the hunter so

i think he has something else in mind

no clue

russian guy typing through google translate

[gaunt phoenix]

love that

[vivid vessel]

this is how you do it with shroud

otherwise he might be asking to pull the mob and vanish

but you will fail 100%

jsut do it with srhoud

explain to them you need water walking from dk or shamn

then you shroud under

[white marten]

#Twinsies

[red zinc]

hes gaslighting me into knowing the skip

idk

magical powers

[vivid vessel]

[red zinc]

those warrior buffs better be noticeable man

they noodle so hard

make em more than 5% buff machine

[vivid vessel]

warriors do damage idk

or you mean tnka

tnak

tnak

tank

holy

[gaunt phoenix]

snake

[red zinc]

arms does

fury is still way to prevalent for how dogshit it is

[vivid vessel]

maybe ye

[red zinc]

in 17s anyway

like look in meter channel

3m on a top 17

[cinder relic]

It does nothing to arms

[muted breach]

so the horrific visions, is it twilight dev and all that old stuff?, and is it usable outside vision like in m+ or is it only a vision thing?

[cinder relic]

tcalp and thunder blast buff is pretty decent though

[red zinc]

outside also

1-1.5% dps gain

[orchid oracle]

https://tenor.com/view/tunak-tun-tuktuk-tuk-arabo-gif-7350381

[past falcon]

do u think u can double outlaw a 19 rook

[proven ocean]

This is risky no?

I never tried it cuz someone told me u can pull bubbles that way but idk

[vivid vessel]

nope

you cannot

you only shroud to not pull the guys inside the water

the only risk there is is being too slow and shroud expiring and then you pull smallies in water

[past falcon]

or ppl falling in water

pugs do that

a lot

[late swallow]

gm @gaunt phoenix

[vivid vessel]

ye but thats why you have water walking

[gaunt phoenix]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1071623449056915458/1204479291010850856/1089685999552036936.gif

[past falcon]

if you mess with your camera angle you fall in

[vivid vessel]

check assa-tc

[past falcon]

like if ppl look down

[late swallow]

they are typing essays lmao

[late swallow]

[gaunt phoenix]

oop

[vivid vessel]

[gaunt phoenix]

cooked him

[vivid vessel]

wtf its already 5pm

i need to eat

[gaunt phoenix]

where is our tc drama

[vivid vessel]

i forgot

[vivid vessel]

ye..

not enough tc drama in outlaw

[proven ocean]

I never knew ppl hated whispyr that much

[past falcon]

who is merk

[late swallow]

[past falcon]

what’s the context

the drama

[vivid vessel]

that assa guy is like

a bit cooked

[slate plaza]

!haste

[ornate heath]

Total stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush lowers your GCD based on it, down to 0.8s at 25% haste.

The KIR build wants 18-20% haste from rating, because its only haste buff is from Alacrity.

The HO build meets this requirement with 8-10% haste from rating because of Take 'em by Surprise, but the new HO + Supercharger build continues to like Haste just because of energy, so you will have to sim. Your sim may settle for KIR-levels of haste (~18%) or slightly lower.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use.
You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[vivid vessel]

and basically he rewrite the entire assa apl every few months

[slate plaza]

how do i tell how much haste i have from raiting

rating

[vivid vessel]

with something impossible to read

[slate plaza]

just out of stealth?

[vivid vessel]

and every line changed basically

his apl provide gains of course

[gaunt phoenix]

do you know your rating

[vivid vessel]

but its not really helpful because he just redo the entire thing everytime

[gaunt phoenix]

divide by 660

[slate plaza]

19 out in kir

[vivid vessel]

instead of changing some lines, posting results etc

[slate plaza]

kk

ty

[vivid vessel]

so whispar is annoyed with the guy

[past falcon]

i c i c

[vivid vessel]

understandably tho

[late swallow]

whisp didn't have to bring all those racial slurs into it tho

[vivid vessel]

fr

[proven ocean]

I spoke to tobfon abit about sin apl not a while ago

He suggested a priority list identical to outlaw’s apl

[leaden folio]

i prefer 1000x time skip vanish than skip shroud

[proven ocean]

Making it simpler to modify

[leaden folio]

people are so slow

[proven ocean]

And understand

[gaunt phoenix]

For Outlaw these kinds of things can't even happen

our spec too simple on god

[proven ocean]

I don’t rly have time to work on sin APL i kinda thought i would

[frail veldt]

You could do less keys

Share the cooks

Sin seems to have a lot of builds I imagine that's annoying to handle in the apl

[proven ocean]

I’ve tried few things that do way more dps in certain areas

[vivid vessel]

it is

[proven ocean]

I just cba

[torpid fiber]

I'm gonna get chatgpt to rewrite the outlaw apl to be 10x harder to read and then change random numbers in it until I find a 0.5% gain

[past falcon]

invent some made up rtb rules

[late swallow]

outlaw broken?????

[frail veldt]

Machine learning approach lol

[proven ocean]

Everytime i open up something new some squared head guy shows up pretending he knows everything about sin and argues why its impossible to find dps gains anywhere

[vivid vessel]

you already watched the video wtf?

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-squarepants-cheer-number-one-patrick-star-gif-5645093355896634388

[vivid vessel]

I even did thumbmails somnius

did you see

[torpid fiber]

if u sim enough times with a stupid rtb rule eentually you'll find a dps gain

[vivid vessel]

rate them

[frail veldt]

Other problem is does dslice actually represent a real key well enough for sin

[vivid vessel]

tell me i did good

[frail veldt]

For outlaw it's easy cuz capped

But for sin that's hard

[late swallow]

thumbnails are really good actually holy

[frail veldt]

You'd want some other sim environments like large pack with funnel mob or something

[vivid vessel]

tytyt

[proven ocean]

I wouldnt say sin sims are hard

[torpid fiber]

this is a good point, people are missing FREE DPS by not modelling every pack in a dungeon and then creating a custom apl per-dungeon

[vivid vessel]

i made them with canvas, you know canvas

that thing is op

[proven ocean]

Ur over exaggerating it

Mewo

[vivid vessel]

took me 10 min to get a decent result

[late swallow]

yeah canva is pretty tight

nice job bro

good shit

[proven ocean]

We found like 16% dps gains in 1 hr

Im sure we can find way more, sin apl plays very badly in m+

[vivid vessel]

tytyt uwuw

[proven ocean]

Im sure no matter what it does it’ll always do low dps unless it gets totally fixed

[late swallow]

damn holy zac is #1 outlaw again

[frail veldt]

Yeah I'm just wondering if that actually plays out the same in a key

[proven ocean]

No

[frail veldt]

16 is an insane amount

[proven ocean]

Because its fucked up thats why its insane

[late swallow]

all your 20s are with that double rogue team haha

[proven ocean]

Besides

[late swallow]

that's so sick

wox comp in shambles?

[proven ocean]

Im sure whatever im pressing is always better than dslice

It does random things often from what i can understand

[vivid vessel]

i mean

[proven ocean]

Its just 1 key wdym

[vivid vessel]

i think this comp is better

[late swallow]

there's 4 20s with that comp

[proven ocean]

Besides we had that key already was just a matter of time we time it again

We progressed all of it

Me helena and farover

Other dungs should be way easier tho

[late swallow]

damn it's neck and neck between ross and zac

[proven ocean]

We kinda just went for the hardest key and practiced all of it

[late swallow]

you guys are like 3 io apart

[dense bolt]

ross did zac beat u in every 20 key u did together

[proven ocean]

Are u dumb or what

[vivid vessel]

well we played together

so ye

[proven ocean]

Well outlaw’s the udk in the grp i do the funnel/boss dmg

[late swallow]

ah I thought ross already had those 20s done with his other team

you think a 21 is doable with the double rogue team?

[vivid vessel]

yes of course

21 ml

for example

[proven ocean]

21s are doable with all comps atm

The easy 21s

[late swallow]

what are we gonna cap out at this season with belt + max corruptions?

like 23s/24s maybe?

[vivid vessel]

eeeh

that seems a bit of a leap tbh

belt and corru arent much as far as i understoor

maybe some keys you will go to 23

like ML

maybe ML 23

[red zinc]

enchant will be another 1.5%

[vivid vessel]

but idk

the chinese havent even timed a 22 yet

[red zinc]

belt like 2% if they dont buff the procs

[vivid vessel]

sooo

i doubt the few percents we will gain help that much

[proven ocean]

Highest this season will be 22

For rogue comps

[sweet badge]

Not sure how corruptions would help you survive candle king

[proven ocean]

But for mage 23, in mdi 24

[late swallow]

ye I guess survivability is a big deal

[proven ocean]

Mdi will be able to easy do 24

Im 100% sure

[vivid vessel]

ok cal m down

[red zinc]

mdi wont have 680 though

[vivid vessel]

they will

[red zinc]

no?

[proven ocean]

They will be

[vivid vessel]

for finals

[sweet badge]

They will

[proven ocean]

On finals

[vivid vessel]

with 20% avoid

which is kidna wild

but ye

[proven ocean]

Actually they wont have belt

Maybe only 23

[red zinc]

belt doesnt matter

[proven ocean]

It does but ok

[sweet badge]

If be surprised if they could do 24s

Belt gives stam

[vivid vessel]

i dont think they do 24s

[proven ocean]

Belt will easily add +1 key level

[vivid vessel]

if these keys happen imo its on live with more time

to get there

[red zinc]

wat

[vivid vessel]

long progress

[torpid fiber]

I miss race mdi it was so stupid but so funny

[red zinc]

it has no secondaries and pretty mid procs

[proven ocean]

Not rly

[red zinc]

its just 16 ilvl on a belt

[sweet badge]

Not sure if it's actually one key level

[red zinc]

its really not that crazy

[proven ocean]

With these grp’s u just need dps in most keys

[sweet badge]

Maybe in edge cases where it was already super close

[proven ocean]

I think they can easily live dfc 3rd boss on 23

It wont even be an issue

[sweet badge]

But not natty

[proven ocean]

Like at all

[red zinc]

if they are timing a 23 with sub 1min left

the belt aint making that a 24

[proven ocean]

Cuz like

[red zinc]

is all im trying to say

[proven ocean]

We can live it on 22 with our gear rn

Rsham comp

So with 20% avoidance i think 23 is rly easy

So 24 could be possible if priest comp is better than i think

We’ll see tho

[sweet badge]

Pretty rng with priest, no?

[proven ocean]

Idk

[sweet badge]

Not sure if people dare

3rd boss takes a while to reach

[proven ocean]

Cuz i know if i go to candle king rn on 22 i can live that without a problen

Our entire grp that is

[sweet badge]

Still quite the jump to a 24 though

Even considering avoidance

[proven ocean]

They have 10-15 more avoidance and thats already a 22 = 23 mdi gear

If priest is better than shaman

Then they can live 24

If its identical then we wont see a 24

Only 23

[zealous plinth]

You hold vanish for it?

[vivid vessel]

rn im doing idk

im not entirely doing everything i could be doing

like i think you can just afk and farm supercharger for example

and have a full supercharger cp bar

for the window

[zealous plinth]

lol

[vivid vessel]

cause like you might need to stop dps anwyay right

[zealous plinth]

Interesting idea xD

But I guess you still send vanish to maintain ar and prevent overcap

[vivid vessel]

idk

maybe you stop maintaining adr

and you just hold everything

[zealous plinth]

I mean you need some dmg to break the shield ^^

[vivid vessel]

it depends how much dps you need on shield

[red zinc]

im going to be playing some cooked ass comp anyway

vdh rsham boomie demo outlaw

(playing that with premades and then timing my best keys with phys comp pugs)

[zealous plinth]

I’d guess it would be prob fine to let it drop and hold all vanish charges like 30s prio to dmg amp

[red zinc]

@vivid vessel

[zealous plinth]

But more not sure

[vivid vessel]

[vivid vessel]

ye thats kinda what im thinking

idk honestly

how do you play first boss ML

that one is much easier

[zealous plinth]

I just send there tbh

[vivid vessel]

i basically always have 3 vanish for amp phase

and destroy the boss

see

[red zinc]

does the damage amp cleave on the adds or nah

[vivid vessel]

on that boss

[zealous plinth]

And still hit the 3.8 to 4

[red zinc]

if you pull stuff on it

[vivid vessel]

its way easier to hold

[vivid vessel]

!

its a debuff timmy !
you noob

you know debuffs dont work

[red zinc]

inconsistent ass game changed the trinket thing

idk maybe they got that one too

i tested it and it works btw

just wanted to make sure

[vivid vessel]

Wdym

[red zinc]

trinket damage amp

[vivid vessel]

Ah ye of course

Always did

[red zinc]

it didnt at some point way back

maybe a specific ass boss

wish i had a log

[vivid vessel]

Buff on you maybe

Not debuff

[zealous plinth]

When do you start holding / let ar drop? Like how much seconds till that phase?

[red zinc]

oh

could be the thundering shit ye

that im thinking of

feel like that worked though

[vivid vessel]

The phases are quick so you are barely holding idk

Basically I'm trying to not overcap vanihs

[cinder haven]

I also said that assa has very different problems to solve with the apl compared to outlaw and that I’m not sure what the best structure would be really

[vivid vessel]

Riding the edge of being at 2 almost always

[zealous plinth]

Yeah that sounds good ^^