frail veldt
nah
#outlaw
vivid vessel
Mouseover settings something something
Don't remember the exact name
It just does that
Makes bar mouseover
Why is that not an ingame setting btw
We will never know
Too hard
hidden bay
We dont judge outlaw hardest spec in the game
tender wedge
fluid meadow
terrible performance
if your dps is better, u r not a real demon, +14 dfc still timed, we missed count by 5% after last boss, and tank just get lost in the dungeon too
stiff glade
Does KS sometimes just not work for you guys? Like you press the button, it goes on CD, but nothing happens
Had it happen during raid yesterday
The log doesn't show anything, as if I didn't press it, but I can see it going on CD and my GCD history thing shows that I pressed it
rotund zodiac
Does KS sometimes just not work for you guys? Like you press the button, it goes...
Got parried?
stiff glade
Maybe I did? Never seen that happen before 
weak crag
Do i macro tempered potion into anything as outlaw or do i ahve to do it manually?
opal raven
Do i macro tempered potion into anything as outlaw or do i ahve to do it manuall...
feel like i prefer to use it when i get good rolls, but it may not be the correct move tho not sure
hidden bay
Got parried?
Extremely unlikely to get parried as trickster
runic bough
well
100 spell que was not good either
and default 400 is too slow
cant win
kinda feels okay at 350
but
meh
azure vortex
Spell que might be the reason why I feel like I have 300ms
runic bough
it sucks so much man
whatever blizzard did in TWW fucked the spellque
has felt off since the expansion released
azure vortex
I dont know what they did, but I played outlaw in df season 1 and this season, and the former one felt so much more fluid somehow
I will test this spell que shenanigan
stiff glade
Extremely unlikely to get parried as trickster
Yeah, isn't that supposed to pretty much not happen?
Honestly shouldn't be possible to have killing spree parried anyway
Like it's a bunch of teleporting backstabs
How you parrying that?
simple relic
btw what is the interaction when u press KS while rooted by architects
it just fizzles out or
stiff glade
KS breaks the root and is cancelled
simple relic
kek
rotund zodiac
Extremely unlikely to get parried as trickster
I’m pretty sure bosses ain’t affect by the not parry thing, no?
random stirrup
they are def affected
rotund zodiac
I see
random stirrup
so ye it won't happen very often
fazed uptime is like 90% or something i think
so it needs to fall off + you roll the 5% parry
uneven stag
is there any info on good corruptions for outlaw yet?
fathom bramble
pretty sure the chance for a boss level enemy to parry is much lower than 5% too
so it's even worse
simple relic
is there any info on good corruptions for outlaw yet?
no were in the dark
(never check pinned stuff)
fathom bramble
base parry against a raidboss level enemy is 3%
fathom bramble
kind of makes sense that you don't get UB on hit and rather get it on cast though
since KS hits up to 22 times
wintry solar
I wanna know how people get the strength to quit after so many years
fathom bramble
people playing long past the point of fun is definitely more widespread than it should be
I think people get stuck chasing the old days or thinking it will improve eventually
fathom bramble
or are just caught in perma habit
fathom bramble
and play wow/league/overwatch/whatever until they hate everything
stiff glade
I did last tier. My guild kinda collapsed, so I decided to take a break. Didn't plan on coming back this soon, but here we are
fathom bramble
look at my 13 priory
where
wintry solar
If I quit when I stop having fun my rogue would still be 70 lol
runic bough
let me upload the log
crude anchor
people playing long past the point of fun is definitely more widespread than it ...
its so noticeable too the way people speak
wintry solar
Untouched since df s3
crude anchor
theyre like incapable of saying “i dont like rhis, i will simply not do it”
crude anchor
laughing cuz same
fathom bramble
but I think learning to quit that fixed the problem for me
crude anchor
^ for sure
fathom bramble
and now if I don't want to play a game I just don't
crude anchor
there was a time when i thougyt id never stop playing league
then fast forward to when i discovered WoW and now i touch league as like a party game
makes it way more fun
fathom bramble
I came back to league after like 6 years 'clean' to play aram and arena
wintry solar
I grew up playing wow and warcraft 3
fathom bramble
never touching ranked again though
crude anchor
short simple pick my own champ deathmatch
fathom bramble
I grew up playing wow and warcraft 3
same
and maybe almost 20 years of WoW means that when push comes to shove I actually won't be able to quit
but for now I still have fun every raid tier
maybe I'll never have to find out
wintry solar
I don't even like outlaw anymore
But here I am
Running keys because ???
I can't even make up fake justifications anymore
fathom bramble
if they somehow randomly ruin outlaw for me maybe that's when we find out if I can quit or not
runic bough
ok its uploaded
fathom bramble
I don't even like outlaw anymore
maybe time to try every other melee class and if nothing is fun force yourself to quit
wintry solar
I play dk
runic bough
outlaw would be great is trolololspree wasnt our finisher
wintry solar
Assa was zzz
runic bough
try enhance?
wintry solar
outlaw would be great is trolololspree wasnt our finisher
You know my position on this
rotund zodiac
delicate quest
I am really enjoying Havoc presently it is more involved than it has ever been and the like "20 second hook" is quite good
fathom bramble
Havoc definitely looks better than it has been in the past
last time I tried it you had an actual 3 button rotation and no generator spells
actually evil character
delicate quest
its fast but not the same way outlaw is and its a lot of the same that you would know
their hero tree adds some cool stuff
void lintel
Heya, should i get crowd favorite mythic w dinars for my main hand?
fathom bramble
is crowd favorite actually on the dinar vendor?
I think it was trinkets and special items only
wintry solar
Ye
rotund zodiac
Heya, should i get crowd favorite mythic w dinars for my main hand?
Do you have anything better in your vendor?
simple relic
oh ye true if you aint ever killing other bosses then whatevz
void lintel
Do you have anything better in your vendor?
Well no and im swapping to outlaw from assass so i have no one-handed weapons
fathom bramble
crowd favorite is functionally bis if you will never kill mugzee
it's an okay purchase especially if your not doing any deeper bosses in mythic
void lintel
Ill kill cauldron first to see if i get it then
fathom bramble
you can do crowd favorite + 2 trinkets eventually
runic bough
@fathom bramble
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6qpxwbJ8BGmkWNYc?fight=last
fathom bramble
or try to get a trinket/weapon first
runic bough
fathom bramble
moving up
fathom bramble
lost to the ret on 1st boss unluck
fathom bramble
yeah it's one of the actually good dungeons
really hope we see a KS fix before dawnbreaker is back in rotation
rotund zodiac
I hate those pally adds that cast concentration
fathom bramble
pretty sure trickster will still be better overall in there which is even more cursed
crude anchor
really hope we see a KS fix before dawnbreaker is back in rotation
i 100% see people. killing spree’ing themselves off the boat
I can see it when i close my eyes
fathom bramble
we did it plenty on the beta
goes all the way back to the good old days too when KS could make you fall through the map
or get you stuck in walls and objects
azure vortex
I once got stuck in the ship while flying
simple relic
oh you can still do that
i fell thru the map like 2 days ago on the mechagon gears boss
wish i could play from there since you can see gears better than from above
runic bough
azure vortex
I remember falling thru the map on siege of boralus giant boss
runic bough
simple relic
i think it tped me into the middle pillar on that boss
and then like i gues i losed the boss canceled the ks and just fell
wintry solar
I don't think I ever beat that boss without dying
fathom bramble
that's cool
I hadn't heard of anyone falling out of the map ever since they put the force TP back onto it
other than dawnbreaker and similar terrain that moves out from under you
azure vortex
It wasnt because of KS though, whole party fell somehow
simple relic
you guys really dont enjoy ks action tho
idk its fun to play around it
one more thing to think about
wintry solar
It's alright
vivid vessel
last time I tried it you had an actual 3 button rotation and no generator spells
you still dont have generators
simple relic
and since it tps you back where u were
vivid vessel
its melees only
fathom bramble
and becomes aggressively more hell in higher keys
simple relic
its kinda fun to think about ok imma move out and then press it
vivid vessel
Ye
azure vortex
I think ks is good because I can blame it when I die
wintry solar
Real
simple relic
so if i get hit i dont get hit at the end etc etc have time to cloak
vivid vessel
Fellblade is is your only gen I think
wintry solar
A great scapegoat
vivid vessel
But that's not bad tho it's just that you Perma press spenders I guess
Idk
It's ok
Resources aren't interesting at all for dh I guess
fathom bramble
as long as it has enough meaningfully different spenders
vivid vessel
You are right on that point
delicate quest
and becomes aggressively more hell in higher keys
I feel like it is intentionally fucking with me at times
wintry solar
It is, dw.
fathom bramble
its kinda fun to think about ok imma move out and then press it
I think this kind of fun interacting with KS could be made much more reasonable if KS was a large self slow like Eye-beam
and cancelable
if it's something that should even stay at all
instead of being a normal spell
delicate quest
the old version of DH fel barrage was a channel where you could move
runic bough
Zac did u see my 13 priory
delicate quest
that would make sense
runic bough
its banger
wintry solar
instead of being a normal spell
I'd like to see them try to make a new spender for outlaw if they remove KS.
fathom bramble
for sure
runic bough
no
wintry solar
The other 2 specs had new spenders relatively recently no?
fathom bramble
trickster being attached to some kind of finisher I think is really good
wintry solar
Yeah
fathom bramble
Samira/reaper ultimate to replace KS
runic bough
and blade rush
wintry solar
there is already coup
That's just dispatch but good
fathom bramble
Coup isn't a finisher, it's a proc that dispatch consumes
runic bough
blizzard is bad at making new things, just switch Blade rush with ks
fathom bramble
it could be reworked into its own spell sure, but for now it's just not really a finisher in the same way as KS, BTE, or sectech
delicate quest
what was that early pirate thing on outlaw called they quickly got rid of? Cannonball barrage?
wintry solar
Yeah
runic bough
ks wasnt a finisher either, THEY WENT OUT OF THEIR WAY to make it one for trickster.
fathom bramble
just kind of swapping in BR would be a reasonable fix, but a new proper finisher is ideal imo
fathom bramble
Cannonball barrage did have its own problems
ground targetted aoes on a fast APM melee class isn't very fun to interact with
delicate quest
for sure
fathom bramble
CBB being on your target or on the player and coming back would be cool though
delicate quest
without mouse over it sucks thats liek 25% of dh right now
fathom bramble
I miss the animation more than anything else
fathom bramble
it could probably also be a bit larger of a circle
thick sail
ground targetted aoes on a fast APM melee class isn't very fun to interact with
well do it they did with earhquake
fathom bramble
a bit
vivid vessel
first time it happen ever or what
delicate quest
its also weird that like snd and thistle tea are "passive but not"
vivid vessel
But I didn't think it would last that long
Snd is passive
I hope they don't remove the button
fathom bramble
it wouldn't surprise me if they have some weird reason for not wanting to remove SND
delicate quest
its is but you can press the button
vivid vessel
I like spending my cps
fathom bramble
and it was kind of maneuvered around by making it functionally a passive
vivid vessel
I think it's fine
fathom bramble
without technically removing it
delicate quest
wasnt it before they brought it back?
vivid vessel
It's something you can legit not bind if you want
But people that want to keep it can
fathom bramble
before they brought it back we didn't even have a passive for it or anything
delicate quest
like it wasnt a thing in legion and most of bfa
fathom bramble
snd was just gone
delicate quest
true
fathom bramble
it was in the outlaw talent tree, but only good for 1 tier in legion
vivid vessel
For example if you have max fth stacks and have to run away I like doing ps snd ps
wintry solar
I like min-maxing snd with my cancel aura macro
vivid vessel
It's a cool thing
delicate quest
its another spinning plate
vivid vessel
What
vivid vessel
What plate you spinning lol
fathom bramble
but it's fine to have this instead of a total removal
vivid vessel
I litteraly just use snd as a cdr finisher that consume cps for nothing
Just To keep up the cdr loop if needed
While away from boss
But it's certainly not another spinning plate lol
No one needs to have snd bound
fathom bramble
But it's certainly not another spinning plate lol
spinning plate on a drill with the button taped down
vivid vessel
Nah idk lol
delicate quest
its a thing you just keep spinning,
fathom bramble
Yeah
wintry solar
Imagine current outlaw without cttc
runic bough
switching to HO is .1% dmg increase guys
fathom bramble
still on the same bind from when you would press it once at the start of a fight
vivid vessel
switching to HO is .1% dmg increase guys
fathom bramble
if I ever need the bind for something else I would probably move or unbind it tbh
vivid vessel
idk if you can have more neutral neutral
fathom bramble
Like if you want it to be a true passive you can just take it off your bars
vivid vessel
fathom bramble
I’m not convinced it matters that much
wintry solar
Looks like you gotta go HO
runic bough
KIR is so much better in aoe
wintry solar
HO has a lot of customization
delicate quest
those numbers are so within the margin for error the choice is irrelevant
rotund zodiac
HO is more forgiving for downtime
wintry solar
You also press stealth abilities in stealth
delicate quest
not irrelevant but personal
fathom bramble
HO has a slightly shorter ks
runic bough
wat
fathom bramble
Think of all the preventable deaths
fathom bramble
Ho has take em
formal axle
Do i roll bones before KS for supercharge or is that grief ?
fathom bramble
It also doesn’t really matter
wintry solar
Do i roll bones before KS for supercharge or is that grief ?
That can be detrimental sometimes
runic bough
I think a 7cp ks supercharged goes really well on AOE big packs.
fathom bramble
Do i roll bones before KS for supercharge or is that grief ?
Follow ks and rtb rules. You might supercharge it sometimes but we don’t play around it
Just be aware that a supercharged ks can be quite long
And dangerous
wintry solar
I hope Supercharger HO stays next season
But instead we'll have sinister strike dealing extra shadow damage
weary fog
always send a 10 CP KS while tethered on swampface
formal axle
Aight thanks outlaw bros 
fathom bramble
Next season ks fix, ambush % chance revert, 2 charge ar, ho super charger sticks around
delicate quest
the supercharger stuff is so recent for rogue would be surprised by that changing when there is a good amount of things in the rogue tree alone that could be looked at
fathom bramble
Fatebound cleave nodes and capstone reworked
wintry solar
Instead of 2 charge ar, how about energy fixed and uhuh grants adr instead?
Rather than pausing
fathom bramble
Both ?
wintry solar
I can do both
wintry solar
IM SICK OF IT RAHHHH
I'm only here because HO can drop ace
For pc
But next tier
runic bough
fathom bramble
Instead of 2 charge ar, how about energy fixed and uhuh grants adr instead?
uhuh change would be really good, but I still think 2 charge AR solves too many longstanding issues to be overlooked for anything
wintry solar
uhuh change would be really good, but I still think 2 charge AR solves too many ...
Let's just meet at the middle and do both
wintry solar
Me when I play outlaw but don't like procs
Not every proc is a fun proc
fathom bramble
my favorite combat rogue tierset was basically just ace
rotund zodiac
But instead we'll have sinister strike dealing extra shadow damage
What, how?
fathom bramble
ace is so good
vivid vessel
Not every proc is a fun proc
alright bro
ace is litteraly the most fun proc in the game
and its not even close
wintry solar
What, how?
Idk. I just made it up.
runic bough
imagine if elemental lens actually proc'd worth a damn. Thats not fun?
fathom bramble
elemental lens can't be fun
vivid vessel
?
fathom bramble
it doesn't do anything
wintry solar
ace is so good
Envious tbh
vivid vessel
I'm talking to the 2 most cooked person on this discord
runic bough
vivid vessel
anyone else remember this
Wtf that's ace !
wintry solar
That's ace but down the hall to the left
runic bough
thats a real tier set wow
must have been nice
then this bullshit in this expansion
rotund zodiac
I wish we get to use SL ss3 set again
runic bough
anyone use firefox
vague cape
lowkey
wintry solar
I use edge
runic bough
I have to open twitch with edge
random stirrup
infinite proc gameplay
Coup bug gameplay 
fathom bramble
daggers were a proc that gave 100% refund chance though
for like 6 seconds
kind of like ret this tier actually
fathom bramble
I think the chance of a refund is more fun
instead of just chain casting finishers
random stirrup
Yeah just mashing bte itself isn’t fun
It’s the proc reaction that makes it fun
And the gamba ofc
fathom bramble
dagger was cool though just for the fact that combo point generation was so low back then
that getting a ton at once like that just felt cool
even though it's not exactly mechanically interesting
blissful idol
always send a 10 CP KS while tethered on swampface
i bait frontal behind the boss sometimes due to ks, so its good sometimes
trail star
Replace ks for sbs and make it a finisher copium
wintry solar
Sepsis but it's a finisher that empowers a stealth ability
Your next stealth ability*
fathom bramble
Cannonball barrage but it's a finisher that rains damage over all nearby enemies that you are in combat with over 3 seconds
wintry solar
Your next ability
fathom bramble
Causes your next combo point spending ability to be cast twice
wintry solar
All roads lead to crackshot
fathom bramble
A finisher that casts 13 random rogue spells over 3 seconds
glass grove
A finisher that casts 13 random rogue spells over 3 seconds
All 13 are killing spree
fathom bramble
Gangplank barrels instead of KS
this could actually work if placing the barrel causes your next pistol shot to automatically target it
vague cape
ngl i wouldn't say no to them baking in ar and adding a cooler main cd
rotund zodiac
A finisher that casts 13 random rogue spells over 3 seconds
Sounds like a hearthstone card
fathom bramble
instead of trying to mouseover or whatever
vague cape
only thing that feels good about ar is the cp gen
wintry solar
Outlaw but it's a mouseover melee spec
vague cape
everything else is more of a "this doesn't feel bad, it would feel awful without"
vague cape
this could actually work if placing the barrel causes your next pistol shot to a...
they could run the trick shots treatment from mm
wintry solar
Bte but it's got that charged cast like evoker has
fathom bramble
no
wintry solar
fathom bramble
ngl i wouldn't say no to them baking in ar and adding a cooler main cd
I think they just need to give us the tools to actually get a lot of AR back more easily
runic bough
BTE now adds 1 second to ADR per cast
fathom bramble
reduce the CD, change how uhuh works
stuff like that
needing to maintain AR can be fun without being frustrating
vague cape
issue with ar is
wintry solar
Crazy how it revolves around the energy economy
vague cape
its like 80%+ uptime
its so high it doesn't feel like a cd anymore
just another maintenance buff
fathom bramble
that's true
vivid vessel
Never did tho
fathom bramble
but it's also been like that a lot since outlaw was made outlaw
vague cape
Never did tho
when'd you start
vivid vessel
Also I disagree with the maintainance buff thing
fathom bramble
even in legion when we first landed on tthe scene you could get AR back within a few seconds of it falling off
vivid vessel
It's more like a buff that get maintained by doing your rotation good
A maintainance buff is like how snd was
runic bough
ADR is our cd button
vivid vessel
Where you have to press it every x seconds and that's it
fathom bramble
even in legion when we first landed on tthe scene you could get AR back within a...
this actually let AR be cast while lesser AR(tierset) was still active as well
for a 0.6 second GCD
vivid vessel
For ADR rn it's maintained by playing good, it's more like a skill check it anything
vivid vessel
when'd you start
Sl
wintry solar
even in legion when we first landed on tthe scene you could get AR back within a...
Legion had baseline lower CD on adr and adr extensions
vivid vessel
In SL we had up to 60% already with some builds
vivid vessel
Before restless blades probably
fathom bramble
Legion had baseline lower CD on adr and adr extensions
yeah it was different back then, but AR didn't really feel like a CD back then either
dreadblades did though
vague cape
nah it was after restless but before modern OL
vivid vessel
We are going back a bit too far aren't we
vague cape
so we're talking maybe cata mop wod?
wintry solar
dreadblades did though
True. Let's bring DB back
fathom bramble
I guess you mean combat
vague cape
all i remember from mop was the sinister strike buff bandit's guile and rupture being an optional thing
yeah it was combat
xd
fathom bramble
yeah combat had a long periods of time where AR didn't have this crazy uptime
and KS could put in really nice burst when red buff was 50%
vague cape
you could though
fathom bramble
you could control it a bit
vague cape
the buff progressed based on ss casts
vivid vessel
Ok if you could sure
vivid vessel
Ye so you can't really can you
fathom bramble
it wasn't as reliable as a traditional 2 minute cd or whatever
vague cape
but you could delay or accelerate it a bit if u wanted
fathom bramble
but you could al ittle
fathom bramble
you just cast revealing strike instead to delay it
vivid vessel
Is either a static 2 min cd thing (if it's on cdr you already lost)
Or spells/CDs with charges
Boomie got it's 2 mins with charges so they kinda won the lottery
And other type of burst that I think of is enhance with storm thing
Where it's a buff that progress
But it's on charges
So you can hold it
fathom bramble
I wish I could check what AR uptime was in mists with the trinket that gave cooldown recovery rate
I don't remember anymore
vivid vessel
So you can hold it
So even if they don't have CDs for example they can always hold their damage for later by holding the charges, and that's interesting
fathom bramble
but like ever since we shifted to outlaw AR has felt more like maintenance than an actual damage CD
vivid vessel
If we, let's imagine, had a 5 min cd that bursted
It would be very bad
Unless it's snot on cdr
fathom bramble
which I don't think is necessarily bad when we have at most times had a real CD alongside it
vivid vessel
but like ever since we shifted to outlaw AR has felt more like maintenance than ...
It's not traditional maintainance tho
It's maintained
By playing well
That's so different to me
vivid vessel
Like a maintainance buff is legit boring by design
Is buff expiring? Then press
But ADR isn't that at all
Even if it was it would be interesting
Cause you play around the cdrr part
fathom bramble
what if vanish had a 3rd charge 🤔
runic bough
blissful idol
what if vanish had a 3rd charge 🤔
Nothing changes right
fathom bramble
just hold a bunch of vanishes for burst
random stirrup
Trickster would still find a way to sometimes overcap
wintry solar
just hold a bunch of vanishes for burst
I'm gonna hold adr and 2 vanish charges as if they were dps cooldowns
Just for one key
vivid vessel
Nah vanish with 3 charges would change a lot
fathom bramble
Nothing changes right
if you never actually play around the extra headroom all it does is give you 1 extra on pull
vivid vessel
With 2 charge with ks it's almost impossible to hold them
fathom bramble
but the headroom opens up a lot of things you can do
random stirrup
2 ks charges
vivid vessel
Because with trickster we basically still need to send vanish on cd
i say that but
motherlode
fathom bramble
I think there's an argument to be made for basically all our cds to have 2 charges
wintry solar
2 bte charges
fathom bramble
tbh
vivid vessel
works crazy well for outlaw
cause the damage amps are very close together
one sec
i dont think there is many specs that are able to do that damage on ml first boss
i checked other logs
fathom bramble
if we were a traditional high/low class that has real burst cds then giving us a bunch of charges could actually be really broken
but charges on us just lets you move damage around without ever really producing an issue imo
fathom bramble
like if a 2minute class with burst had charges then it would probably result in some unfairness and weirdness certain fights
vivid vessel
etc
i dont think its even my best pull on this boss
But if you manage to hold vanish
Since the phases are very close to each other
random stirrup
like if a 2minute class with burst had charges then it would probably result in ...
is this not boomkin rn
fathom bramble
is this not boomkin rn
it is
vivid vessel
is this not boomkin rn
Yes
fathom bramble
that's what I was trying to imply 🙂
indigo iron
How much of a dps loss is it for an outlaw rogue to not take killing spree over the next best talent on a raid boss like mugzee mythic?
random stirrup
Disgusting spec
fathom bramble
How much of a dps loss is it for an outlaw rogue to not take killing spree over ...
well on paper they are the same for a ST fight like mugzee, but the bombs and nearby immune adds reduce the damage of fatebound considerably
and trickster build will deal more damage to the non-immune adds when cleaving as well
it's hard to put an exact number on it, but it's enough to warrant running KS build on mug imo
indigo iron
well on paper they are the same for a ST fight like mugzee, but the bombs and ne...
That’s odd so it’s no loss? Damage isn’t the issue we have killing spree going through mines etc
fathom bramble
okay well
don't cast KS during mines lol
fatebound build loses damage to the mines and add being active and nearby so it's not as clean as a simple ST sim unfortunately
fathom bramble
nice
vivid vessel
rng spec
fathom bramble
do you still hold damage for 200 years
vivid vessel
what can you do
vivid vessel
do you still hold damage for 200 years
no
indigo iron
that’s cool thanks we got told it was a big dps loss, and we have had a lot of killing spree madness this tier across bosses
fathom bramble
<@101843879791177728>
I did even less damage with the 10 ilvls
vivid vessel
vivid vessel
I mean we were all dead for the last 10 sec but like
fathom bramble
that’s cool thanks we got told it was a big dps loss, and we have had a lot of k...
it's enough of a loss that KS should be recommended for the fight, but if your being foolish with KS then you should not be playing it
vivid vessel
<@101843879791177728>
barely doing much more if i cut that time
swear outlaw is just rng
fathom bramble
random stirrup
Have yet to play outlaw in reclear yet but I can’t help but feel like spec rng has got to be less than kill time rng with all the ilvl and raid buff randomness going on
wintry solar
Does details count adr uptime in keys when you're dead?
Or rather, does it take time dead into account
fathom bramble
it should right
random stirrup
Someone dropped a drill in melee during blades on my sub reclear and then we killed sprocket 45s faster so I missed a cast and green parsed
fathom bramble
as long as your in combat
vivid vessel
it will show on the addon bro !
vivid vessel
fren !
Also it's over for me on bandit now
We do diff strat
We're we skip adds
I don't get any big add pops
Need to get that boss removed from all stars 
random stirrup
excluding the booty adds of all sorts would be cool
fathom bramble
didn't press it
vivid vessel
excluding the booty adds of all sorts would be cool
i will smack your booty
fathom bramble
very hard to use trinket
random stirrup
!
vivid vessel
omg
vivid vessel
very hard to use trinket
frfr
wintry solar
omg
vivid vessel
my vexies are always the most cooked man
one damage amp only every week
delayed till 2 min + cause we suck
vivid vessel
fathom bramble
need to be in a slower guild I guess
vivid vessel
i need to pug that boss man
vivid vessel
need to be in a slower guild I guess
or m,ega blast
trail star
this could actually work if placing the barrel causes your next pistol shot to a...
This looks cool
vivid vessel
and kill after first phase
fathom bramble
another thought is to make it a 2 part finisher
first cast consumes combo points to place a barrel
2nd cast consumes combo points to shoot it
vivid vessel
You not good at aiming the bikes then Zac?
never entered a bike in my life
dont even know how you send it on boss
short fulcrum
fathom bramble
literally worst bike class
unluck
get in a bike and get stuck for 8 seconds doing nothing
might as well be dead at that point
vivid vessel
do you go in bikes lol ?
fathom bramble
No
short fulcrum
Real Rogue immunity is immunity from doing mechanics
vivid vessel
I don't even look at them
weary fog
i dont do bees on 3rd boss cinder
rotund zodiac
I legit do nothing with current outlaw
U still kidney and cheapshot and blind aoe right?
vivid vessel
On second boss dfc u don't lit candle I stay on boss
On third boss dfc I force other melee to go far and stay on boss with the AOE clear
fathom bramble
It doesn’t make sense from a group success chance perspective for us to do anything
As long as someone else can
vivid vessel
i dont do bees on 3rd boss cinder
I don't even see the bees
I legit don't do shit
Ever
Such a funny spec
Dfc third boss is so funny cause i ask tank to go far from statues
And then it'd far from statues
wintry solar
As long as someone else can
I used to think this but evidently every pug in the game thinks the same way
vivid vessel
So other melees need to run to clear them
And I stay meele
Litteraly inting the boss
All by myself
So funny
rotund zodiac
Evil zac
fathom bramble
I used to think this but evidently every pug in the game thinks the same way
They all think it, but other specs are only like this during cds
short fulcrum
I used to think this but evidently every pug in the game thinks the same way
Literally every spec in the game says the same thing
No one likes doing mechanics, except BM hunters maybe
fathom bramble
I just tell people I’m basically trying to maintain breath all the time
rotund zodiac
I’ll try to using only kick and see if my dps goes up
fathom bramble
And they seem to get it
vivid vessel
imagine doing mechanics when yuo can do 2.4 st bro
weary fog
if i get targeted by last boss priory beam
vivid vessel
im never going out
weary fog
good luck to the other melees
wintry solar
Literally every spec in the game says the same thing
That's what I said before I edited but I just wanted to hate on pugs
opal raven
good luck to the other melees
lol so true cos and gl
short fulcrum
That's what I said before I edited but I just wanted to hate on pugs
I wish it was limited to pugs 
fathom bramble
Last time I played assassination it felt like downtime did literally nothing unless it was during your 2 minute cd
vivid vessel
Last time I played assassination it felt like downtime did literally nothing unl...
ye it does nothing in st
In AOE you are GCD capped so it's a bit worse
But it's still only immediate damage
Outlaw will also lose ADR
So you end up doing no damage down the line
rotund zodiac
2nd boss of siege
Just stack on tank, easy
weary fog
yea
fathom bramble
No damage while you spend 10 seconds doing whatever and then also no damage for 30 seconds while you try to crawl out of the hole you just finished digging
wintry solar
No damage while you spend 10 seconds doing whatever and then also no damage for ...
It's fun btw
fathom bramble
Most other specs it is just no damage for 10 seconds that is potentially also very low damage if they are outside cds on a strong burst spec
trail star
Skill issue
wintry solar
F IS FOR FRIENDS WHO DO STUFF TOGETHER
fathom bramble
I mean I actually am
I know the current mood is complaining, but otl is very fun right now
Just want some flaws fixed and all that
wintry solar
Forced downtime makes me want to put a toothpick under my toenail and kick a wall
buoyant stratus
As someone who finally has gear to play outlaw in keys thanks to turbo boost, this variant of outlaw is surprisingly very fun
I actually love pressing killing spree lmfao
buoyant stratus
The only thing i suck at is getting used to having no acrobatic strikes since i only dabbled in s1 tww and played a lot in s3/4 df
Sometimes I'm just not whiteswinging and pressing pistolshot/bte during crackshots and dont notice xd
buoyant stratus
Bro some of these boss hit boxes
Are not real
Like the bird boss in rookery holy moly
wintry solar
Gotta go butt to nut with the circle
wintry solar
Their health bar is of no concern to you
Technically speaking, they failed the mechanic
vivid vessel
I know the current mood is complaining, but otl is very fun right now
my favorite iteration by far
just ks
and well no acro but
i can ignore no acro its mostly way harder to play
and big qol loss
runic bough
what do u think Acro restored would interact with KS be like hmmm
wintry solar
I want to see how modern blizz would do a Legion
runic bough
now that i watched myself in a video
I can see that I need to play so many improvements
god daawwmmmm
wintry solar
what do u think Acro restored would interact with KS be like hmmm
Wdym
runic bough
wintry solar
Would it not be the same?
runic bough
like maybe
oh ye nvm
well
yeah
current ks has a 10 yard activation
but
when u cast it, it teleports into melee range of target
perhaps Acro could keep is activated at the 10 yard distance
fathom bramble
Acro didn’t change ks anchor points
wintry solar
Not really
runic bough
my video is cooking guys
runic bough
doesnt that hurt
wintry solar
Very
runic bough
how can u type
teal marten
hey guys. if mainly enjoy the havoc DH playstyle, do u think outlaw will be the spec i will enjoy the most out of all rogue specs?
runic bough
while in pain
wintry solar
Was just one eye. And this was a long time ago.
runic bough
hey guys. if mainly enjoy the havoc DH playstyle, do u think outlaw will be the ...
if you want an ability that is worse than eye beams you may not like it.
but if you want to try it anyway, you have been warned.
teal marten
i tried assa didnt like it very much, is outlaw higher paced ?
runic bough
yes
teal marten
kk
runic bough
but killingspree is going to troll you
I hope you are a calm kind of person and it wont rage you as much as it does to me.
teal marten
y np i play monk too with whirling dragon punch same thing kinda but i guess killing spree is worse
runic bough
yes its fine besides that right now
we are in a lucky tuning spot
VERY LUCKY
blizzard usually tune us to be weaker than all the rogue spec and majority of classes. But we got a bug fix after tuning and u kno they didnt expect us to be this strong. So enjoy it while you can.
We would be even stronger if we didnt have killingspree handicap us
vivid vessel
hey guys. if mainly enjoy the havoc DH playstyle, do u think outlaw will be the ...
Nah
I think sub
Is similar to havoc
haughty moat
blizzard usually tune us to be weaker than all the rogue spec and majority of cl...
thats just cap
vivid vessel
Sub is about 1 mi 30 cds window
And then you also have smallers cd windows every 30s or so
teal marten
well
teal marten
what im looking for is not a spec that is doing tank dmg outside of their cd windows
like havoc always do consistent dmg and have some satisfying buttons
and a spec that is fast paced
runic bough
i havnt played sub in a long time but zac has
sin is more concentration in aoe and keys, boring for raid.
I havnt played sub in long time so i cant comment.
quasi notch
I would play sub if you could do some aoe dam outside cds
teal marten
so sub is it very burst heavy and lack dmg outside of cd windows??
agile orchid
outlaw is the consistent damage spec
quasi notch
But if you play sin it similar gear I think
Outlaw is ret but capped dps
Damage wise
agile orchid
isn't ret a bursty spec though
runic bough
also ret doesnt have trollingspree
agile orchid
although with 30 sec cds
quasi notch
30 sec but 2 charges I think
wintry solar
Ret is all the pros of outlaw
runic bough
Trollingspree is the reason outlaw players went from 500 players in TWW to 25.
so many rerolled
its been a genocide
agile orchid
Ret is all the pros of outlaw
can ret prio target though
haughty moat
ryu spitting facts again, only 25 outlaw left guys
quasi notch
I sometimes enjoy the dr aspect of ks
runic bough
haughty moat
aoe bis
agile orchid
blizzard will fix vanish resetting the effect any day now 
hybrid quiver
Does it actually outperform 684/681 weapons overall in dungeons?
quasi notch
Ye
haughty moat
but only if u dont use mug'zee trinket
quasi notch
I macroed it but it sucks switching all the time
hybrid quiver
but only if u dont use mug'zee trinket
Mind to explain?
Why trinket would change it?
quasi notch
Bug
haughty moat
trinket kinda keeps you i ncombat thingi bug
red zinc
Using that trinket in m+ turbo int anyway
quasi notch
The goons make the weap not reset on vanish
hybrid quiver
Ooooh
quasi notch
Using that trinket in m+ turbo int anyway
^ also true
wintry solar
Hoc and priory gamers rise
stiff glade
Does it actually outperform 684/681 weapons overall in dungeons?
Don't use it as main hand weapon though
wintry solar
Or signet. W/e you want to call it
runic bough
how is vexie trinket in m+?
does it hit all 20 mobs
im getting in higher keys
would be interesting to play with an aoe trink
strong cargo
would be interesting to play with an aoe trink
There isn't
thorn river
Its decent in M+ , nothing spectaculair
vivid vessel
so sub is it very burst heavy and lack dmg outside of cd windows??
yes, just that playstyle wise i found havoc kinda simlar to havoc in the way you had a bunch of small cds you stakcd, altough now in s2 its different than s1
a bit less similar
blissful idol
what im looking for is not a spec that is doing tank dmg outside of their cd win...
Then prolly ench shaman
wintry solar
How much would ER have to be buffed to be competitive with forced induction?
vivid vessel
why do you want that ..
wintry solar
I don't
vivid vessel
Er shouldn't even be a talent
wintry solar
Calling it ER should is a sin
I didn't like ER but I mean come on. Show some respect.
wintry solar
How much would ER have to be buffed to be competitive with forced induction?
Would still like to know though
hidden bay
all the vision shit is acc wide right?
i can cheese it with my hunter and get enchant for my rogue
vivid vessel
Would still like to know though
i mean just top gear it lol
haughty moat
rogue bad for visions?
brave adder
Hey friends how should I proceed if the tank chain pull
wintry solar
Guess I could huh
haughty moat
do dps
stiff glade
Follow him. Chain pulling is nice
agile orchid
I wonder how long it will take to get the enchant
haughty moat
day 1 it said
agile orchid
sure but day 1 can mean 1 hour or 8 hours
rotund zodiac
Hey friends how should I proceed if the tank chain pull
Keep hitting dem adds
haughty moat
day 1 is all info that matters^^
rotund zodiac
You can restealth with vanish so no problem
brave adder
Its Important i vanish if i got ar acitv have
crimson thicket
You can blow vanish charges and still keep like 90% uptime on AR
haughty moat
you wann KS and Coup on CD and you have fit the vanish in there to not loose adr
brave adder
i got every key 60% ar ;/
haughty moat
has nothing to do with chain pulling, we like that
thorn river
@zac can u check raidlogs from me what i fuck up ? Dps is fluctuating hard over pulls
wide flare
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
Guy's - Afenar's Edit 
Luxthos Edit
Zac's Group 
Devlin
Utilities:
Combo Point Standalone
Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
Ace refund sound trigger
RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
Unseen Blade tracker
Fun:
Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
KS Ticking damage taken
hidden bay
rogue bad for visions?
Usually is pretty bad at solo content. Unless its easy enough where your dmg just overpowers everything
I dont think having no sanity resistance and playing ks will be very good at start
Unless tuning is very off and easy
hidden bay
Idk bfa visions werent that free
haughty moat
ya shouldnt be too hard i guess
vivid vessel
But BFA visions were the actual thing from the tier no
It was like torghast and shit
hidden bay
Yes
vivid vessel
This is a random mid patch event
tulip jewel
evasion should be op
vivid vessel
Like the ring isle
It won't be hard
I think we legit go through and one shot every thing
tulip jewel
holy remember islands
hidden bay
If its tuned easy then outlaw is op
haughty moat
yea i started WoW at that time, i was giga noob in the visions and managed them
hidden bay
Perma sprint perma dmg
vivid vine
is there a reason why grappling hook sometimes missfires, is there something i should avoid doing?
haughty moat
its bugges since shadowlands
vivid vine
i remember it itaking me out of stealth the whole time in df but feels like i'm having more consistent missfires now
vivid vessel
is there a reason why grappling hook sometimes missfires, is there something i s...
It's when your feets are los of the end point
The first check that fire grapple is a los from your head
desert tendon
Back in the days we could grapple from ground to roof of buildings