outlaw

[random stirrup]

im gonna end it all

[pliant wind]

cudgel is better than the myth 684 weapon of cauldron?

[gaunt phoenix]

on packs yes

[glass mortar]

🤷 i cant see any other reason for the sim to be like this other then the bug

[pliant wind]

but overall on bosses and low pulls is much better the 684 right?

[glass mortar]

maybe @gaunt phoenix can find something

[gaunt phoenix]

you should swap weapons on bosses

[pliant wind]

alright

i have a capo HC for single target

[remote pike]

okay mate, thanks for your input ❤️

[pliant wind]

so i guess ill pass wasting dinars on that weap

[gaunt phoenix]

what's the exact question

[glass mortar]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/np1rL3Y2oh6KKDe4Lw4SiA

this guys sim

[pliant wind]

ill take pacemaker and stop thinking xD

[glass mortar]

why is crafted weapon upgrade bigger then a 684 weapon

[gaunt phoenix]

its a raidbots bug where crafted items are really 687 ilvl instead of 681

[remote pike]

I'm hitting kir haste already

okay

[glass mortar]

ok the pin says "generated items" and i assume nuf just took the item they already had and removed the embellishment in raidbots

but i guess maybe that counts as a generated item?

so i wasnt 100% sure

[gaunt phoenix]

any generated/upgraded item to the new ilvls

[keen belfry]

guys highest m+ trinket sim is signet

[glass mortar]

👍 @remote pike confirmed

[gaunt phoenix]

that you dont already have

[remote pike]

thank you very much

[keen belfry]

should i get me a signet 😄

[remote pike]

appreciated

[gaunt phoenix]

raidbots author is on vacation so things are a bit fucked for a while

[glass mortar]

how selfish of them

dont they have a laptop????

[gaunt phoenix]

Also he is probably not happy about the sudden creation of increased gear tracks

a bit of a mess to untangle surely

[remote pike]

I can imagine

[gaunt phoenix]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[autumn geyser]

Yesterday someone said that you wanted to use KS on 1-2 cp, in wich cases you want to use it at max cp?

[gaunt phoenix]

you mostly use ks at normal cp

using ks at low cp is just if you fear death

like dfc 3rd boss

[autumn geyser]

Oh

Nice

I think im doing something bad, at pull (for example: first pull or dfc) im doing AR BTE until subterfuge expired, then vanish bte until subterfuge expired and again

Its not correct right?

[gaunt phoenix]

well you dont bte spam

you have to build combo points right

[autumn geyser]

I forgot to say i use ambush in thr middle or pistol shot with op

[gaunt phoenix]

also killing spree has higher priority than vanish

ambush has higher priority than opp

[autumn geyser]

So i dont have to spam vanish?

If ks or coup are up?

[gaunt phoenix]

ks and coup are higher priority

unless you absolutely have to vanish to not drop AR

[glass mortar]

opener will look like crackshot window > kspree > coup if you had enough blades ready > vanish

the general flow is going to be vanishes with a kspree or two sandwiched inbetween

in the opener ur gunna be kspreeing before ur first vanish tho

not giving all the abilities of course, just the general flow of "cooldown" uses

[copper radish]

15min to get into a +10 lmao. have some cleared too. lfg can be brutal

[autumn geyser]

Nice

Thx all

❤️

[proven ocean]

we made it sheeeeeeeesh

just timed r1 world floodgates too

[crisp condor]

Didn't realise quite how many nuts CN teams there are until I went to look for you on Global and found you at 37

[raven condor]

jfc zeross pumper

Soups up

[hollow portal]

I went into a Cinderbrew 17 and the hopgoblins weren't there. When we arrived, the hallway was empty. OMG, hahaha. We finished the key with that bug.

[hollow temple]

~4% overall dmg with mace noice

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/lion-king-u-the-king-of-the-jungle-gif-13440619

[proven ocean]

YOOOOOO REALZ IS IN MY CHAT WTF

?!?!?!?!?

WTF

HES ALIVE

[late swallow]

@him and ask him if he's jorkin it

no rules against tagging devs in private twitch chats

[proven ocean]

lmao wtf no

[hollow portal]

to see how much it will nerf you xd

[late swallow]

@realzz you jorking it?

[proven ocean]

fuck

ur right

[late swallow]

[vapid aspen]

Hi, just restarted to play outlaw (was playing sub this early season)

it feels like if i'm not pressing KS on cooldown i'm not doing that much dmg

[late swallow]

yeah that's how trickster works

[vapid aspen]

but in key (14+) i'm waiting a lot to press it as there is many mecanics that can kill you

while in KS

any recommandation... ?

[late swallow]

just a matter of getting used to it honestly

[vapid aspen]

ok

i see

[late swallow]

sometimes you can just send a low CP KS

[cloud thunder]

you can also send a 1cp ks

[vapid aspen]

is it really worth it ?

[late swallow]

ya it's worth

[vapid aspen]

oh

[cloud thunder]

better than not sending it

[vapid aspen]

that's a good info

[late swallow]

but that's not what you should be doing consistently

it's just that delaying and not casting is worse

[vapid aspen]

ok

like on first boss on rookery

there is a lot of time where you can't press it

[cloud thunder]

you can only ks if you have cloak up

[vapid aspen]

feels so weird ^^"

[cloud thunder]

there you just have to take the L and wait until mech is done

[vapid aspen]

my single target is around 1M5 on this boss cause i can't press KS often

and it feels bad as fuck

[analog fog]

Boon>KillingSpree

[bright crane]

You can’t press it when he’s doing beams, but other than that you’ve got plenty of opportunity to use it when he’s not casting beams

Like right after circles for example

[snow hill]

Quick question:

If I have X2 Mythic Crowd favourite

X1 Heroic Gallywix Iron Thumb

X1 Heroic Capo molten knuckles

What is Bis for me to use?

Asking because Solo said Capo H is bis OH until you get it mythic

[vapid aspen]

true, but beam is long 😄

[late swallow]

new disc PFP

sensational king

[vivid vessel]

My title was better no cap

I guess I'm not using enough emojis tho

[late swallow]

we're gonna need more emojis king

[vivid vessel]

Ye

Tomorrow I add emojis

[vapid blaze]

they also had like 5 ilvl more

like on live xD

[desert tendon]

i m proud of you son, u remind me of ram being rank1 when rogue was middle of the pack

[vale plume]

anyone have a good weak aura for showing equipped offhand?

[strong cargo]

https://wago.io/elwWiwJax

[muted breach]

Is outlaw dmg on terms with assasi dmg ? m+ only

[glass mortar]

less but still pretty good

higher probably in regular level keys as well

sin scales better with key difficulty

[strong cargo]

Mythic Crowd favorite main hand in all content, Capo Offhand for ST, Cudgel/Crowd favorite Offhand for aoe (should sim it maybe Capo is fine too)

[pliant wind]

learnt to swap weapons is cool :o

between pools

1-2-3 targets and large pools

didnt know i could do this xD

[bright crane]

You get 5 big BOOMS

[nova basin]

BF bug isnt back is it? Just saw some chatter on rogue forums and didn’t know if they are just trolling.

[bright crane]

Link

Zac would have been the first to notice it

[nova basin]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/blade-flurry-is-broken/2101077/15

older post but new replies to it.

Might be related to certain content also, just caught my eye

[bright crane]

Sounds like the guy is feel crafting it

[daring oxide]

this post is nonsense

[bright crane]

Because it took 3 big brains to figure out what was happening

[daring oxide]

killing spree has never jumped to anything other than the main target

if the main target dies

killing spree stops

this has always been the case

its just the tooltip is written wrong/has typos or not been updated to reflect the true intention of killing spree

[nova basin]

I think it might just be older content stuff by the looks of some of the posts on it. Killing things too fast for bf to actually hit.

[daring oxide]

well even in m+

if u KS the main target when its about to die

you'll only do KS hits until its dead and then cancel

[nova basin]

I think the guy was saying he wasn’t using KS

[daring oxide]

so if you KS older content

it'll hit once then cancel

[bright crane]

One of the things he’s complaining about in this post is known

And is an unfortunate con sequence of the BF fix in legacy content

[daring oxide]

im confused lol

honestly no idea then

[bright crane]

Tl;dr everything is fine, the guy posting is a certified bugger

[nova basin]

Yea I didn’t want to scare anyone I just wanted to run it by you guys who actually know stuff, whereas I’m just a noob 😂

[daring oxide]

aye its fine

just the post itself makes no sense to me

well BF definitely works fine i think

Outlaw is doing well atm

keeps up with the other classes

[bright crane]

You’ll know if the bug is back when Zac has a nuclear meltdown

[daring oxide]

it needs a buff i think though

soft cap BF please 🙂

beyond 8 targets

[daring oxide]

and yes its true

[craggy barn]

how many crafts should we have this week

[glass mortar]

so any day that ends in y?

[gaunt phoenix]

6

[nova basin]

Or make the 5% scaling work the opposite way around per target. 😂

[gaunt phoenix]

i think

[craggy barn]

yea 6

just counted my stuf

again

i prob shouldve just crafted a neck i think instead of a chest

idk

[bright crane]

There’s a good chest from priory

[craggy barn]

yea if i was lucky

lol

neck is the only non mythic piece i have now

[spice widget]

hi all, im new to rog, im doing only keys, should i purchase capo for off hand or use the nightfall mace? if so, should I spend my Dina on somting else?

[gaunt phoenix]

You use both

capo on bosses, macro weapon swap to nightfall for packs

[spice widget]

ok amazing thank you

[frail veldt]

Honestly I simmed mythic crit vers neck and t was like 0.1% better than champ track pvp neck lol

[latent oak]

does anyone know how accurate the timestamping in logs is

on wcl i maen

bc as im checking, all the top outlaws are taking longer than 0.8s per gcd consistantly

even with alacrity stacked

nm i've found a few under 0.8s

[frail veldt]

How could you be under

[raven condor]

it being crit>vers hurts it

[latent oak]

bc they are inaccurate

i assume

[frail veldt]

Ah

[glass mortar]

wouldnt surprise me of log time stamps have a minimum tick rate of some kind they calculate at

probably somewhere in the milliseconds

they probably dont need to be that accurate

[pastel sierra]

How much longer is the actual question tho

[glass mortar]

like ten hundreths of a second off

etc

[latent oak]

wcl give it to 3 decimal points for some reason

which seems excessive if ur not measuring that accurately

*precisely

[late swallow]

Hey The Box (crack enthusiast)

[latent oak]

https://tenor.com/view/ant-sting-ant-backshots-gif-6300724939999307018

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/by-maeve-maruki-sad-ant-takuto-maruki-gif-913086044099144785

[frail veldt]

Well if wclogs is consistently showing over .8 then people are probably losing gcds

[glass mortar]

considering how many of yall play with spellqueues under 100 im not surprised

i dont think people realize how small a window 1/10th of a second is to land a spell press in

[frail veldt]

I play at like 160

[glass mortar]

even if ur spamming 10 times a second

[frail veldt]

People fundamentally don't understand spell queue

[glass mortar]

mhmm

[frail veldt]

And think lower = more responsive

[glass mortar]

its kinda weird idk

sometimes i wonder if there is some jank in how their spellqueue works

[copper radish]

15min to get a +10 and we +++ it... then somehow im in a 12 and we ++ that too. was worth the wait lol

[glass mortar]

because too many people report a "laggy" feeling when playing at 400 for it to just be placebo surely

niiiice

[latent oak]

i increased mine from 200 to 300 and tested against some dummies in pandaria to reduce lag(idk if this actually helps) and i got some wierd results where on a gcd tracker the spell wasnt showing, but it would still double input

is it world lag being unavoidable everywhere?

[glass mortar]

honestly i couldnt tell u

i am extremely sus with the entire spellqueue system at this point because of my own experiences

but working as advirtised 400 should work fine for basically everyone, spellqueue should never make ur buttons feel "laggy"

[latent oak]

when i go to 400 it 'feels' like i cant overwrite the buffered spell and it locks it in even if im spamming the other spell before it goes off

but that would indicate bigger problems on my end

[pastel sierra]

I had that when i had higher ping than usual

Bad routing, laggy instance, whatever

[latent oak]

bc theoretically the higher the sqw the better right

it might be laggy instance honestly

idk how to find a non laggy instance in open world where i cna hit target dummies

[pastel sierra]

I think

You're tripping

[glass mortar]

the only time spellqueue should feel laggy is if you would not have had a spell queue up at all

[pastel sierra]

And u hust gotta get good

[latent oak]

ya exactly

[glass mortar]

like, if u set it to 400, and press the wrong spell, and then dont replace it with the right spell fast enough, the wrong spell goes off

in the case that u had no spellqueue here

[pastel sierra]

Instead of worrying about something as small as the spell queue window

[glass mortar]

u simply would not cast a spell on the gcd

[latent oak]

yes 100%

[glass mortar]

and instead would cast it ~0.1s after

whenever u managed to get ur input togo thru

at minimum ur ping after the gcd

but the reality is, assuming ur mashing ur buttons 10 times a second which is very fucking fast btw

[latent oak]

this is what i meant by this

[glass mortar]

i think most people overestimate how many times they hit it

ur still probably adding another 0.1s of human delay to the press

[latent oak]

i tested and im 7 per s average

but that was in testing enviro etc

[rapid lion]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[iron quail]

is there a thread for : why the fuck is tomelvis playing house of cards as outlaw in keys?

[glass mortar]

because its a fine trinket for kir

[latent oak]

mastery isnt awful in aoe as kir when ur spamming bf on cd

pretty much

[glass mortar]

and he has it on myth cause he didnt prog as outlaw

its probably like 0.2% behind the bis setup

like the other 10 trinket combos u can do

with our "good" trinkets

[iron quail]

hmmm doesnt sound so bad

[glass mortar]

it was 0.6% behind the bis setup for me as HO

mind you, i simmed like all the raid trinkets + some dungeon ones and the maximum gap from top combo to worst was like 1.4% in aoe

so

🙂

just pick what feels good idk

or w/e has ilvl

[iron quail]

im playing kir atm so i wouldnt mind. you just sim that default dungeon slice right?

[glass mortar]

well no i simmed st and 8t because i wanted to see the trinkets value at target cap

but

dslice will just exist inbetween those thresholds

so 🤷 its fine

[iron quail]

does unseen blade go into nimble flurry atm? just curious

[glass mortar]

unseen blade flurries yes

[iron quail]

bcs for sub it didnt last season

ooooh

good to now

know*

[proven ocean]

ty censi

[iron quail]

and 1 more min max thing if i have 15-25 ish s cd on my killing spree am i holding next vanish window if i vanish is not capped at 2 charges ? so i dont waste cdr on killing spree ?

[glass mortar]

yes

[random stirrup]

also sims aren't game play

[glass mortar]

as long as AR wont fall off

[random stirrup]

hoc will do better in real high keys

when upull big around cds

[glass mortar]

well

[iron quail]

so ar is also important in my spree ?

[glass mortar]

how is HoC scaling u past 8 targets

nothing but cudgel really scales for us past 8 targets

cudgel is our uncapped scaling

[iron quail]

ty helped me out loads

[glass mortar]

ar is important for the whole spec to function

not really about having it up for spree

if u let it drop u cant vanish so

holding vanish to kspree and dropping AR would be no bueno

[iron quail]

ikik just used spree to get ar back if i dont have it running

if i have like 20 ish seconds left it was a good "filler" for that moment

then i went back into sending crackshot windows

didnt feel like spending it on sth else was worth it. bcs im also losing cdr on spree again

[glass mortar]

yes its fine to cast kspree with AR down

u want to kspree on cd if u can

[iron quail]

yes

thats what i thought

ty loads

[glass mortar]

i dont actually know

does AR even increase ksprees speed?

it doesnt give haste, kspree doesnt care about our gcd speed

wouldnt surprise me if it doesnt

[iron quail]

no clue didnt test it yet but prolly wont

me neither

[desert tendon]

[wintry solar]

Omg censi hi

[late swallow]

Hey censi

[wintry solar]

My thumb started hurting during keys last night

Imma have to work it out

[proven ocean]

i feel like if we played for 1-2 more hrs we could've had r1 all players in the world

but healer was rly tired

unlucky

[gaunt phoenix]

rip

[desert tendon]

dont hi me

i m not a wow player anymore

[craggy barn]

what are u then

[wintry solar]

I'm sorry :(

[proven ocean]

[wintry solar]

I can't believe I can't hi him anymore

I've even been perfecting my Oot speedrunning strats

[glass mortar]

he escaped

i should soon too

feeling like this might be the last season

[wintry solar]

My goats are leaving

[glass mortar]

only way blizzard can keep me playing

release more delve content!

buff delve rewards!

uncap brann levels

😠

[wintry solar]

Not ks?

[glass mortar]

ks is fine in delves believe it or not

but that wouldnt hurt

[wintry solar]

I believe it. I'm a delver myself

[wintry solar]

Okay but the waist thats coming >.>

[glass mortar]

true we will see

maybe i step back from raiding and then quit next expac depending on how it looks

just dont have the time to play this game like a job and its hard to do the content i wanna do when thats the case

[gaunt phoenix]

yay im out of valorstones

[pliant abyss]

So im switching from Assassination to Outlaw is Capos okay to use as MH and everforged for OH?

[latent oak]

it's not looking good lads i've been cringing gcd gaps

bless up that u can export logs as csv files tho

[torpid fiber]

oh that's tech

are the gaps the wasted time or the gap itself

[latent oak]

its the gap between casts

so any time above 0.8 is bad

fth fucks up the pistol shot ones

[pastel sierra]

Doesnt wcl calculate that with active time

[latent oak]

lmao does it

[pastel sierra]

Idk im askin

[lime lake]

why dont you tell me

[torpid fiber]

does crackshot fuck up the bte ones?

[proven ocean]

[latent oak]

i made it ignore dispatch casts

[torpid fiber]

what's up with the .16/0.17 gaps

[latent oak]

thats fan the hammer

counts as 3 casts in wcl

[latent oak]

i thought active time was just time not on the boss meleeing ngl

but it might be what ur saying

[torpid fiber]

ah, was just curious why it showed up

i was assuming you were only showing gaps > gcd

[desert tendon]

not a big new dumby, i called it

[latent oak]

shows like this in the event list

[torpid fiber]

yeyeye

i was just assuming you were doing more data processing than you were

[latent oak]

na very basic

[proven ocean]

ur gonna stop for few seasons then come back or

surely u dont quit forever

[torpid fiber]

although i think counting vanish as a gap is a bug anyways

[proven ocean]

i dont think u can anyways

or

[desert tendon]

who knows, i dont, you dont. But as aug is stepping in again, as the season see barely no changes for rogue and the couple bugfixes took month or even years for some to be fixed. I think that s a good time to quit at least the next season, probably the entire next expansion too. Then who knows. I ve stuff to do irl also, might move to korea, was planned for a long time and i ve the opportunity to. I may comeback who knows, when who knows, but i ll for sure keep this discord so feel free to @me randomely anyway, i wont read it

[proven ocean]

i can tell u aug isn't mandatory

at all

you'll see alot of non aug comps rn

cuz

theres no OP class

[desert tendon]

yea yea yea

[proven ocean]

we had enh last season

[desert tendon]

wait for the +15% they ll take next patch

[proven ocean]

enh was doing

season 2 boss dps

[desert tendon]

[proven ocean]

so like

last season

keys were

try to live with aug

and

time it with enh doing absurd dps

so

it was a good combo

now its only live and time key

not dps

dps matters now

but

aug doesnt offer that

and will never offer it

cuz all op classes are nerfed

[desert tendon]

also i dont like the way blizzard s doing season right now, like for real borrowed power sucks, random increase ilvl mid seasons makes all your precedent work useless, idk if that s just me but i dont like the way blizzard's going right now

also, i still havent dropped a mythic dagger, i m really mad

[wintry solar]

Soon we'll have both ring and belt

[desert tendon]

and borrowed power are a must right, i understand why they do it, but having to hold a low ilvl ring a whole season??? Fk that. I prefered sl covenants tree / legendaries

😒

[wintry solar]

Real

[desert tendon]

belt works only in delves right?

or something like that

i ve heard

[vestal notch]

ye cyrce ring and cyrce belt are very boring borrowed power

[wintry solar]

Have they went into detail yet? Idk

[proven ocean]

belt isnt coming now

11.1.7

[desert tendon]

yea idk sl legendaries were at least higher ilvl (irc), and you chose stats and it was unique for each person right

or at least each classes / specs

now everyone wear the same ring with the same gems

[wintry solar]

And effected gameplay

[desert tendon]

not very rpg if u ask me

[haughty wigeon]

It also wasn’t that liked

But I
Do agree

[desert tendon]

most people just hate borrowed power because it s called borrowed

idk

[haughty wigeon]

The rpg aspect is failing this expansion

[wintry solar]

People liked legendaries. People didn't like the acquisition

[desert tendon]

i dont like the system but i fully understand the idea and why it s needed to balance player power every season

[haughty wigeon]

I hope another lego comes along

[desert tendon]

and yea most of sl bad stories are

torghast chore and early expac covenants

[vestal notch]

sl legendary problem was both acquisition and crafting, and mandatory torghast for them didnt help

[haughty wigeon]

Ye

[desert tendon]

and it was so costly to get legendaries because it was so costly to up the profression and to buy the mats and blablabalabla

was bad

[wintry solar]

That all falls under acquisition

[haughty wigeon]

Df legos had same issue

[desert tendon]

yea exactly, the feeling of chore was bad

[haughty wigeon]

But now you have to rng drop

[wintry solar]

Df leggos were glorified trinkets

[vestal notch]

fyralath cast was fun

[haughty wigeon]

Axe was

Evoker lego wasn’t

[wintry solar]

Some specs had greater dps increase from trinkets than the axe

[haughty wigeon]

Evoke lego felt like a lego

[desert tendon]

i liked torghast, because i like blizzard minigames, i like delves even, very fun content and relaxing :D i had many laughs in torghast with friends breaking the game or challenging ourselves. But when i didnt feel like doing runs, and blizzard told me if i didnt do my weekly torghast i ll lose a week of ashes

i hated them

[haughty wigeon]

Cause they made it unique for Evoker

Blizzard to afraid of making legos do unique things for specs

Which is a shame

[desert tendon]

it s hard for them to make legendaries

through power / obtentions

[haughty wigeon]

Ya something something balancing something

But then they do a 360

[desert tendon]

gavel was sooooo strong if you couldnt get it you were a dead bdk

same with evoker legendary once aug was released specially

[haughty wigeon]

And pick a spec every season to do four times more damage then next spec

[desert tendon]

so they added the blp

[haughty wigeon]

So

I don’t see why

[desert tendon]

but with the blp added

[haughty wigeon]

They can’t do that with lego

[desert tendon]

they kinda had to make legendaries not stupidly storng

[haughty wigeon]

Go back to basics

Cata lego

[desert tendon]

anyways

next leggo is mage leggo

next rework is mage rework

[haughty wigeon]

Long hard questline

[desert tendon]

next buffs are mage buffs

[haughty wigeon]

Real

[desert tendon]

eh

as i like old wow

[wintry solar]

We are about due for another mage rework

[desert tendon]

i think the way legendaries work back then

vanilla / bc / wotk / cata

cant work in modern wow

[wintry solar]

Old leggos also had lore to them

[haughty wigeon]

Debateable

[wintry solar]

Not really

[haughty wigeon]

The bow from tbc had no lore

[desert tendon]

i mean, it can work, but the community aspect isnt as much a thing as it was

i think

[haughty wigeon]

Dhadowmourn is just a mortal made frostmorne

[desert tendon]

most legendaries are either copycats or real lore weapons

[wintry solar]

Crazy how well that axe holds up today

[haughty wigeon]

Anywho

Df legos would be fine

[desert tendon]

cant wait to sharp the xalatah feet's nails to make them daggers

[haughty wigeon]

If they didn’t make it a rng drop

[desert tendon]

but then what you do

long ass questline

[haughty wigeon]

Yes

[desert tendon]

hidden behind a rep grind

which is amazing for people who knew old wow

not so for zoomers like zac and zero

[haughty wigeon]

I rather have a clear view on what to do

[desert tendon]

same tbh

knowing what i m working toward

the feeling of accomplishement

[haughty wigeon]

Then pray fyrakk drops lego

[desert tendon]

the community / guild work toward this accomplishement

[frail veldt]

Honestly I think legendaries suck in modern wow

[haughty wigeon]

Killed heroic fyrakk for weeks

[desert tendon]

hello mewo i like you very much

[frail veldt]

I heard far more complaints about fyrak weapon that I heard good things

[haughty wigeon]

Didn’t get axe until blp capped out

[frail veldt]

U too booboo

[haughty wigeon]

Ya fyrakk axe also had to be buffed

[frail veldt]

I think people mistakenly just assume "legendary means me op this patch"

[haughty wigeon]

4 times

[desert tendon]

but so the questline of that axe was

kill fyrak 20 times

kinda

[frail veldt]

I know some people who spent the entire patch tryna get that shit

Or wait no that was the Aug one

[desert tendon]

which kinda became true nah?

[haughty wigeon]

Rng drops sucked asss

[frail veldt]

Nope lol

Not for dk or war

[haughty wigeon]

Axe got buffed so it was okay

[frail veldt]

They sucked ass

Only ret was good iirc

[desert tendon]

oh yea

i m biased cuz of ret

[frail veldt]

People forget haha

[desert tendon]

i can see that

[haughty wigeon]

[frail veldt]

The legendary sucked

For most specs

It was good for one

But that's just tuning rng

Has nothing to do with the leggo

[haughty wigeon]

Jailer hammer

[desert tendon]

same with gavel, was op on bdk but i dont recall another class amazing me by using it

[frail veldt]

It was more a result of he rework

[haughty wigeon]

Should have been lego

[desert tendon]

but also gavel wasnt a legendary i think

[frail veldt]

The legendary was irrelevant

[haughty wigeon]

Every spec wanted gavel

It was basically a lego

[desert tendon]

obviously

[haughty wigeon]

Even bears wanted gavel

[desert tendon]

but it was like 30% of bdk dam

[frail veldt]

Legendaries are almost always just like adding a required item to your gearing that you suck before getting

It's just a feelsbad

[desert tendon]

and maybe 5 to 10% for a dps class

[haughty wigeon]

That shit was insane for everyone that used it

[desert tendon]

so less impactfull

[haughty wigeon]

They really should have too gavel as inspiration

For axe

[desert tendon]

anyway i m biased i was a big pusher so i only saw lock sv bdk and hpriest

these 2 seasons

[dreamy pecan]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[sick rain]

Heyas, with So Tricky, how come tricks still looks like a 30 second buff, am i doing something wrong?

[worn yoke]

It's weird, 30s initial buff then a 60 minute one replaces it.

[sick rain]

thank you, i didnt notice this

[raven condor]

But you have to hit something in that 30 seconds or it will fall off

[wintry solar]

If it's with brann, it's hit or miss

I know I gotta keep applying it even during combat

And then poof

It works

Out of the blue

[raven condor]

Oh lmao. I've never experienced that.

Checks out though. Brann is a cheeky lil guy

He always jumps out of rooms or the instance whenever i tricks him, then shadow steps back to me after he's lost aggro

[sick rain]

thanks guys!

[high sluice]

anyone know if we can use killing spree on m sprocket

[past falcon]

no

u will kill everyone

[mossy rock]

why is it sometimes i cant restealth in dungeons until either the dungeons over or sometimes until i relog? Reloading or rezoning doesnt do anything. It's just greyed out like smoke bomb is and i cant use it

shouldve screenshotted during the key

[raven condor]

Maybe a critter or a bugged out mob?

does an alt f4 relog work?

[mossy rock]

id assume, havent tried it

[icy cedar]

doing these 12s for crests, and im just sending KS on CD with no consideration and it's absolutely hilarious

im competing with tanks on damage taken

kinda fun

[mossy rock]

i just gave up and started holding adr at the end / vanish at the end

[frail veldt]

That's very weird

Is your stealth button on a stance bar

Or is it a macro

[long barn]

I did it guys. 684 Copo

[mossy rock]

both macro and on a reg bar, but using from spellbook doesnt work either

[frail veldt]

What about typing /cast stealth

Does it say you're in combat?

[mossy rock]

nah, im not in combat

havent tried typingf it

[frail veldt]

What's the red error text say at the middle of your screen

If anything

[mossy rock]

nothing

this is my usual macro but i also just have stealth on my bars. I alternate

[frail veldt]

Yeah sounds like a ui issue tbh

Weird

[mossy rock]

ill msg whenever it happens again

last time was like a month ago

[frail veldt]

Oh

Sounds like something very specific is causing it then

[ornate kernel]

If i have a crafted weapon on mainhaind i should use Capo hero on offhand or what?

[gaunt phoenix]

yes

[frail veldt]

Maybe you're stealthing then stealth is breaking and you can't stealth over subterfuge cuz of your macro

[cloud thunder]

can i ks last phase oab and get hit by the electricity and live

or do i have to preemptively cloak

[eternal mortar]

you can if you get spammed heals

and depends on how many times you run throught the beam

[vagrant olive]

so i have a capo heroic and a iron thumb heroic, should i use capo in offhand for bossing and m+?

let me be clear im using one or the other

[jovial dock]

is eye of kazan actually good for us at all in m+? sims showing its good but the whole combat thing scares me lmao

playing kir

[frail veldt]

It can be

Depends on your tank/the dungeon

Def bad on like workshop

[jovial dock]

yeah seems fair

house of cards maybe better?

[next wedge]

for cudgel, should i keep auth of depths or is radiant power better?

or am i nitpicking

[empty elbow]

There's too many situations where it'll end up dropping not worth it

[jovial dock]

yeah i see some of the top outlaws running house of cards might give that one a go

[past sky]

i was surprised hoc sims well for me because in my mind mastery is still garbage tier for us

but maybe it gives an awful lot of mastery

[bright crane]

Trinkets this season just aren’t very strong for ol across the board

[wicked kestrel]

What can I macro my on use triknets with? I dont like having to click those pos's

[frail veldt]

geargrinders is prob our best on use

but theyre all very close

you could pick any 2 of like the top 8 trinkets and be fine

[past sky]

they should make it so when you macro the bee trinket with KS it lets you ride the bee as you teleport around

[wicked kestrel]

I'm having issues with what to buy with dinar.
see picture attached. Wasting a craft on a weapon that is only 50k dps doesn't seem worth when I can craft double ring with more stats

thoughts?

[jovial dock]

craft the rings too 🙂

[pure folio]

You dont want to macro them

on use trinkets can bug ur vanish and not give u subterfuge

if its macroed in

[wicked kestrel]

o.O woah didn't know that

deciding buying a weapon or crafting is gonna slowly kill me. the crafted at 681 is only 2% better.

[pure folio]

I crafted weap and jewelry

I dont think its a waste to craft all 3

What weapons are u using currently

and what are ur stats

[wicked kestrel]

nightfall and geezles

[pure folio]

Ok uh i would say you dont want that

def weapon

im assuming the geezles is hero track

and not myth

[wicked kestrel]

hero ya.

[pure folio]

Yea

craft weapon

do u have 3 weapons?

or are u using nightfall permanetly

even for st

[wicked kestrel]

perm

ilvl or no if its just a 2% increase thats hard for me to swallow that its worth the craft. i dont know why.

[pure folio]

Is that simmed including the embellish?

[wicked kestrel]

hmm no. let me do that.

[pure folio]

Is this for M+?

or ST

[wicked kestrel]

M+

I raid as sin

cooking something up. Maybe this will make my mind up.

[astral wind]

How's outlaw perform on Gally Vs Assa?

Just killed Mug last night so can buy myth molten knuckles and swap gear round to outlaw for gally prog but wondering if it's suicide if I've not practiced it all tier 🙃

[cinder relic]

Play whatever Ur more comfy on

Easy boss

[fathom bramble]

if you aren't comfy on outlaw it's probably not a good idea compared to what you are use to

I feel that extracting value from outlaw on gally kind of requires you to be exceptionally good at handling KS and outlaw in general

[astral wind]

Yeah that makes sense, I can usually jam a new class/spec and it's fine but I knew that having no experience with pressing KS this tier would nuke me probably

Guess it's a reclear angle

[lyric steeple]

why are other people using Nightfall Curseblade's Cudgel as offhand in M+?

[arctic hollow]

#outlaw message

tldr vanish and shadowmeld reset the proc so we can abuse it

[pearl girder]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cfmgcMXnahhwArkanrdtof

idk if the sims are correct im playing at 9% haste but the outlaw faq with supercharged build says 14-18% haste

[frail veldt]

Anyone else notice that combat drops when vanishing on Ipa boss in cinderbrew?

[tulip jewel]

think it happens randomly on any boss

i’ve had it happen on a few and it’s not consistent

[frail veldt]

weird

makes me wonder if the nightfall offhand is worth it

on bosses

if theres a way to make it consistent

[tulip jewel]

it’s probably something that happens on engage

[frail veldt]

but sounds like its random

[tulip jewel]

from what I can tell

[frail veldt]

on engage?

[tulip jewel]

as you engage the boss

[frail veldt]

hmm

[fathom bramble]

bosses that fail to activate the raidwide combat thing

for whatever reason

[tulip jewel]

i’ve had it happen on a few bosses

and then not happen the next key

had it happen on 1st boss brewery too

and 1st on priory

something combat related probably

other mobs being dragged onto boss etc

vanishing at the right time maybe

[fathom bramble]

when I had other mobs on a boss it was resetting for those mobs, but no the boss

[tulip jewel]

I had it multi proc on 1st brewery

[pearl girder]

someone answer please should i trust the sims or?

[tulip jewel]

was completely dropping combat

won’t be a gain on low target counts now compared to ilvl anyhow

[fathom bramble]

it looks like your not running ghostly strike which can cause a significant reduction in the amount of haste needed

[frail veldt]

well combat is a character status

[fathom bramble]

I mean it's kind of both

your in combat with something

[frail veldt]

sure

but you have a status

[tulip jewel]

mobs have their own combat too

[frail veldt]

that is either true or false

[pearl girder]

kk ty

[frail veldt]

I noticed it cuz I have a wa that checks my combat status

and it swapped to out of combat temporarily

[fathom bramble]

interesting

[frail veldt]

if I was in combat with a boss it wouldnt ahve done that

[tulip jewel]

yeh i’ve had it happen 20+ times

[frail veldt]

I wonder if it has to do with pulling mobs onto a boss

[tulip jewel]

of course, that’s what I said

or vanishing at the right time

like a lot of mechanics just happen to not happen to us if we vanish at the correct time

[vivid vessel]

its not

[frail veldt]

Yeah I figure

[tulip jewel]

it’s potato low target count

[frail veldt]

always awkward when I dont know if tank is pulling trash onto boss and Ihave to drop a global to swap weapon mid combat

[frail veldt]

oh I thought it was still good as long as you could get the combat reseting?

[fathom bramble]

well it's sort of uncapped aoe

so it just gets really good at really high target counts

[tulip jewel]

test it out yourself, the damage really isn’t great low target count

in say ToP compared to brew

[frail veldt]

on a side note, Im really having trouble replacing pvp neck and champ track roulette ring
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vr294A7FptXppha86k2RXT

[fathom bramble]

since it resets on every target you get significantly more damage at 8-16 targets instead of 1-5

[tulip jewel]

using it for every trash pack

[frail veldt]

Like crafted pieces are just worse

[tulip jewel]

it’s about half the damage on a per trash pack average

[frail veldt]

yeah makes sense

[novel timber]

hey zac

[vivid vessel]

do it during ks !

[delicate seal]

the amount of valor you need is acutally insane

like blizz is criminal

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/191679181619331073/1372412706329726986/image.png?ex=6826ae6f&is=68255cef&hm=ec40fc7bdaa526963d2eeb3ab331b8461a62009654726d9c7080d794d116a11e&

whats the best to worst valor/hr activity

the fact each 12 gives like

100 valor is criminal

[jolly geyser]

the echo event can give fair bit of valor

[delicate seal]

do they expect people to just do 50 m+

[jolly geyser]

radiant echoes

[lime lake]

randomly increase ilvl mid season so everyone logs in and boosts m+ engagement numbers

stonks

[blissful idol]

but pvp neck is 684 when it should be 658 or?

[hybrid crown]

Reminder you can xfer valorstones

Send some from your poopy alts

[neat tapir]

On a new rogue that will never touch mythic raiding, is it worth it to craft weapons? Or go with the new faction weapon and a hc off hand from raid?

[storm drum]

use the offhand from the nightfall

[storm drum]

I dont tihnk you craft a wep def craft a ring and bracers craft a wep if your gona farm?

[neat tapir]

I was thinking to buy the mace from the new faction and one weapon with dinar and craft 6 items with crest

[storm drum]

sheesh

i think ring and bracers is best 2 pieces to craft for outlaw...you said a new rogue that wont toch mythic raiding...why would you buy a heroic weapon with dinars?

[neat tapir]

Well, there are rare weapons there right ?

[storm drum]

If youve downed heroic...

I use heroic capo's with a crafted main hand and swap weps between capos and night fall cudgel...But i mytihc raid and will get a crowd favorite in vault or to drop

WEapon is your highest dmg output for ilvl

offhand doesnt matter too much i dont think

[neat tapir]

Thank you

[storm drum]

but you can always pull a mythic track wep from vault if you do m+ so its just up to you

So. jus craft 1 weapon and use nightfall cudgel craft ring and bracers and then whatever you want if youa re gonna giga farm

[neat tapir]

I just want to maximize the sparks, I was reading how good the nightfall weapon is and I was hoping I can get away with that and a hc weapon

[storm drum]

Mythc track is 684 crafted weapon is 681 you want one of these in your main hand slot. OFfhand is generally cudgel/capo's/crafted dagger

[runic bough]

my best mythic stix pull

[hasty warren]

Yo pirates

and ryu

[runic bough]

they are ignoring me

yo

when i talk to them

its like this

https://tenor.com/view/brick-hi-guy-gif-21709341

[wintry solar]

Same

[runic bough]

I didnt know they were like that

[wintry solar]

I did

Yet I stay

[runic bough]

lol

bro

at least we have each other

[wintry solar]

So TRUE bro

[runic bough]

[wintry solar]

[runic bough]

now if only I could get top dps on a kill

that would be coo

I got my first 3mil boss kill on vexie but I was sin

then I sucked on cauldron

and outlaw for the rest

[wintry solar]

I'm embracing outlaw for the rest of the tier after the capo fiasco

I gotta remember to set my loot spec to assa though

Next tier

[runic bough]

um

are u in a mythic raiding guild

[wintry solar]

No

Are you?

[runic bough]

ye we prob wont see mythic capo

but

[azure vortex]

I rerolled outlaw from sin, is it a good decision

[runic bough]

my guild might in some time

but they progressing slowly

so

maybe

[runic bough]

think of killingspree like

your worst enemy

[wintry solar]

I'd argue no atm

[runic bough]

if you are good at sin, its better to just stay

killingpree is very rage enducing

fr fr

stix is the only boss where you can freely ks

and maybe vexie

you will just die to so many things or get stunned

its not fun

so

I will play sin on those fights

except rik

I need the movespeed on rik

[rotund zodiac]

[runic bough]

helps a lot

FLUSHIES

[runic bough]

herroo??

can u see my texts?

[rotund zodiac]

yes

[runic bough]

[hasty warren]

@wintry solar U swapt to sin too

[blissful idol]

Ryu can u read this message ?

[runic bough]

yes i can

[blissful idol]

[rotund zodiac]

what happened? Did someone block you or what

[hasty warren]

wait ryu can read ?

[wintry solar]

Tried to but I bought capo and equipped it on accident forgetting I'm rerolling.

But I am next tier

[hasty warren]

lol

[runic bough]

wot

[wintry solar]

Unless outlaw gets substantial changes or the tier enables rtb spam like this one

[runic bough]

well

we can use ks on stix

[wintry solar]

But I'm not hopeful

[rotund zodiac]

Outlaw softcap next tier

pls

[runic bough]

i just want a fate buff

no more ks

[rotund zodiac]

and fix KS

[runic bough]

no fix it

i want fate

kir fate the most fun

[blissful idol]

Just make killing spree empower you or something, even make it passive idc

[hasty warren]

just rework ks

[blissful idol]

You legit can’t ks on third boss dark flame

My team was laughing every time I used it

[runic bough]

can we cloak the candles?

[blissful idol]

I got stunned

[hasty warren]

noly if tank have more than 5 iq

[rotund zodiac]

yes

[runic bough]

so what we really have to do is run through all the candles with cloak then ks

[rotund zodiac]

no no

[runic bough]

then the next candle we still fucked

gg

rip

ks sucks

[rotund zodiac]

Candles can be removed by mechanic only

[runic bough]

wot why did u say yes?

[rotund zodiac]

I mean you can cloak and not get hit

[prime cloud]

hey, big question here as i've died to that last two workshops I did. Is there a bug with flamethrowers after 2nd boss so they switch directions after casting grappling hook near them?

it happened to me only on rouge hence the question here

[covert kestrel]

If you're stealthed they will "sense" you and turn to you as you go by, similar to mobs who turn when you get too close

[prime cloud]

omegalul thanks

[covert kestrel]

Yes it's dumb

[quick quail]

Also it deals fire dmg but goes through cloak. Learned the hard way

[shut lichen]

mechagon technical prowess shines once again

[prime cloud]

My group was already scheduling a psychiatric ward for me

[vivid vessel]

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxm0p1G9Qd6-bSeDPeF3kPTdJcRLI7USE1?si=9L49ETs862HZHtcG

do this

[prime cloud]

didnt know you can grapple that direction ty

[vivid vessel]

[remote pike]

KS is so easy to fix for blizzard

make it so that you simply retain control of your character, able to move. and all the other teleport positions are simply "shadows" of yourself or whatever the fk

because ur such a nimble and fast rogue

hell, if u want a lil buff perhaps remove 1 charge of vanish (or increase cd) and have killing spree give u a vanish effect, so that lore wise its a form of trickery or something idk

there, done

killing spree remains an important button, still looks like a bunch of teleporting around for everyone else, but every rogue knows that its just a little finesse and trickery on our part, and we indeed are where we've always been

Why all this trickery you ask? Well... y'see, because the hero talent is not called Fatebound but Trickster

[vivid vessel]

Wtf are you saying

[remote pike]

Let it cook in da brain, it works

[remote pike]

Or perhaps I was a little cooked while writing it! It was as a reply of a lot of cries from our rogue brethren couple of hours ago!

[astral wind]

At what point are you guys finding that haste is simming less than crit for HO? If I swap from assa I have a fuckton of haste so probs need to ditch it on a lot of crafted pieces

[flint palm]

So we use capo main hand, gallywix oh for bosses and cudgel for trash?

Or what

[shut lichen]

not the sick grapples into the natty full buff rtb roll

he's him

[daring oxide]

we always get 5 natty at the wrong time 😭

[remote pike]

why has my very well thought out and incredible ks rework suggestion not been pinned? wat da helly

[distant bronze]

you cannot put whetstone buff on nightfall cudgel ?

[shut lichen]

u need the blunt weapon version

the weightstone

[distant bronze]

ooooh ty

[frail veldt]

Theres an easier fix that was already demoed by wox on a private server

Literally remove one flag from KS

So it doesn't tp at all

Can even still give it a long gcd to replicate the lockout but that hardly matters imo

[vivid vessel]

Idk how they haven't done that ..

Just for a bandaid

Till they rework it ..

I hate that these devs prefer to have an ability completely broken for years because they are reworking it

[frail veldt]

Yeah the current state should be unacceptable

[vivid vessel]

Instead of just pushing a 5 min bandaid

And continue working on a rework

Like common man

[frail veldt]

Just really low standards tbh

[vivid vessel]

What's the reason we haven't gotten the bandaid yet

One good reason ..

How can they prefer current state

Like I know they are working on a rework

[shut lichen]

the assumption being they are even doing that

[vivid vessel]

That's fine

But

Why not send the bandaid in the meanwhile

..

What does this cost man

[frail veldt]

Someone really probably thinks that surviving KS is somehow skill expression?

Maybe

Or that's their cope at least

[vivid vessel]

No spec in the game has that ..

And they removed it from havoc

[frail veldt]

Like imagine some toxic idiot going "lol skill issue"

[vivid vessel]

Cause it was shit..

[frail veldt]

Yeah it's getting pretty awful

Esp when now the hard part is having my tank do the right things so I can press it

Like if I don't have a tank that knows how painful KS is then some mechanics are actual hell

[shell fossil]

well also its a push week for ppl looking to get dinar loots

and it's definitely not killing spree's fault

wheelchair augh ability that it is

[shut lichen]

well as long as it gets changed in the near future

[vivid vessel]

Wish we had a dev that could tell us why

Why wasn't it bandaided

[shut lichen]

we did

[vivid vessel]

4 months ago

[shell fossil]

it could share a cooldown with evasion/sprint and get buffs

[vivid vessel]

I'm so confused

[shut lichen]

then we decided to burn that bridge

[vivid vessel]

We didn't

He couldn't handle people not gooning over any change he did I guess

I'm sorry but if you are a dev that chose to communicate with a public community

You know sometimes people won't like your changes

If you can't handle that, it's not on us

We didn't burn any bridge

[shut lichen]

not liking and crashing out are two degrees in that spectrum

[vivid vessel]

not really lol

[past sphinx]

are they even aware how broken KS is

[vivid vessel]

people express how they feel abuot the spec

by crashing out

litteraly on cd

[tulip jewel]

what's crazier actually

[vivid vessel]

good or bad

[shell fossil]

overall this season rogue hasn't gotten a lot of attention whatever/whoever ur talking about is probably under pressure from management and the community

[vivid vessel]

its just how it is

[tulip jewel]

is that they were changing interactions with spree daily early season

like we used to get trapped out of spree on priory etc

[vivid vessel]

wdym

[tulip jewel]

some puddles used to insta tick during spree

it was changing so frequently at the start

[vivid vessel]

That's not realated to ks at all

The trapped during ks was a bug with movement abilities in general

If you mean the thing where you couldn't move after

And puddles not ticking insta is just a global change

They usually don't let insta tick puddle exist

[shut lichen]

people can express without deciding to heat things up to a 10 and start personally attacking but it's whatever i guess

Just hope they change this damn ability

or use blade rush or something instead

shit feels so ass

still better than feint though

[astral wind]

Anyone here for a PoV of outlaw on myth Gally?

[vivid vessel]

this personal attack thing

is litteraly a legend lol

[blissful idol]

twitch?