#outlaw
vivid vessel
grave rose
just ignore pistol shots in sub then?
red zinc
no way this gear is only like 7% dps though
proven ocean
btw zac
seeing this dps
ngl
udk would gap the shit out of outlaw
its not even close
cuz sin isn't supposed to be top on a +12 
fossil lintel
Isn't udk like turbo meta right now?
proven ocean
i guess outlaw is just too bad still
proven ocean
Isn't udk like turbo meta right now?
its not turbo meta now but its good
lime lake
shouldve done a 10
grave rose
defintiely helped
lime lake
instead
daring oxide
nerf sin
proven ocean
zac was claiming it
daring oxide
zac was claiming it
you agree sin is more op than outlaw?
proven ocean
zac plays with random dk's and pings me on how he gapped him by 2m dps
fossil lintel
I don't invite udk cause every single one I played it in the last 2 weeks fucking sucked
hardy relic
considering i have a crafted weapon and a now 684 myth weapon, whats worth to use the dinar on? also have a myth track pacemaker, is the eye of kezan really worth it?
vivid vessel
bro you are so silly
gaunt phoenix
just ignore pistol shots in sub then?
ya ambush has priority usually
you can PS in stealth if you dont have energy to ambush, or you have 1 CP + 6 opp stacks + broadside tho this is minor
proven ocean
you agree sin is more op than outlaw?
sin is stronger than any spec in the game atm not just outlaw
hardy relic
its only heroic btw, didnt do any mythic raid
red zinc
get silly with it
proven ocean
dps wise
red zinc
proven ocean
sin is stronger than any spec in the game atm not just outlaw
in high keys that is
proven ocean
only issue is that we dont have anything to offer
halcyon elm
nice
proven ocean
1st pack my prio died like
5 seconds into my deathmark
lol
had like 11 sec left
halcyon elm
gaunt phoenix
considering i have a crafted weapon and a now 684 myth weapon, whats worth to us...
what's ur other trinket
also 684 offhand is awkward
because 671 capo beats it on bosses
and 658 nightfall cudgel beats it on trash
hardy relic
what's ur other trinket
hero track wax whistle
gaunt phoenix
if you dont want capo maybe you can pug M vexie and buy geargrinder
or just get M wax whistle it's about the same
hardy relic
is capo better in m+ than a 684?
gaunt phoenix
yeah on bosses
hardy relic
(sorry started outlaw this season, mostly as a joke but i been liking it)
gaunt phoenix
what a noob
hardy relic
as i said, capo on bosses, cudgel on trash
which cudgel was that?
frail veldt
only issue is that we dont have anything to offer
how is aoe silence not something to offer?
I dont understand why that is so undervalued in pve
fossil lintel
They ain't running it
frail veldt
yeah thats just insane to me
frank finch
dmg is king
frail veldt
how much do you lose
proven ocean
alot
frail veldt
but its 1 point
proven ocean
especially with this build i cooked
proven ocean
its literally 10 times more impossible
proven ocean
i said alot
frail veldt
3%?
proven ocean
like 20 msgs above
proven ocean
more than that with this build
frail veldt
20%?
proven ocean
maybe 10
or more idk
this build is crazy with its poisons
cannot garrote
if i play garrote build i automatically do like
-500k st
frank finch
u only garr in st i bet
proven ocean
ye
frank finch
yea i saw shin playing it
proven ocean
so not only i lose 500k st
i also have to drop talents on that build
to pick ironwire
so
i lose aoe too
and st
on top of the -500k
xd
frail veldt
well you wouldnt need to press it in st right
only aoe where you need the aoe silence
dull ivy
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
proven ocean
omg
i just cooked a new high keys build for sin
LOOOOOOOOOOOOL
time to try it out
holy fuck
fossil lintel
What did you change?
proven ocean
@frail veldt
UR
FUCKING
CRAZY
0.5% DPS LOSS IRONWIRE
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
THERES NOWAY
frank finch
link build
proven ocean
wait im fixing stuff
red zinc
@daring oxide i think we might need to be on bug watch
the dps gain doesnt feel natural
maybe im wrong
but idk
fossil lintel
If it's good we can name it the zerocool build
daring oxide
<@105752825878843392> i think we might need to be on bug watch
what you mean?
red zinc
no way 7 ilvls does this
red zinc
before I even got gear i went from 5m to 6m on priory
maybe its cause key is faster
but idk man
daring oxide
this dungeon (Motherlode) i played way better
red zinc
doesnt feel normal
fossil lintel
7 Ilvl should be about 7% no?
daring oxide
before I even got gear i went from 5m to 6m on priory
yeah its just gear i think
7ilbl is a lot tbh
grave rose
ya ambush has priority usually
you can PS in stealth if you dont have energy to...
thanks for the help man
strong cargo
Whats the difference between this and vexy trinket?
Vexy trinkets does real damage ?
red zinc
idk like this has lower cd I thought it might be useful xd
that trinket also channels
muted breach
back in shadowlands we used to run dagger on offhand, whats the viewpoint on running dagger offhand in m+ current patch ?
blissful idol
!oh
ornate heathBOT
A dagger offhand is technically like 0.2% better than a slow weapon because it generates more 
Instant Poison procs. That is the only difference, 
Fatal Flourish proc rate is normalized to be unaffected by the change in attack speed. Note that item level or stats will matter more than this quirk, or you can simply use a slow weapon anyway for transmog.
red zinc
i mean if there wasnt anything going on dagger would be better
but theres a few special weapons
that cause that diff to not really matter
muted breach
yeah won an hc dagger just now and using veteran slow weap, but i could always farm the new meta nightfall weapon
fossil lintel
Capo and the cudgel happened
eager rose
capos or gallys iron on main hand? both heroic
red zinc
capo would be better if you have something else in oh
if you're just picking between those two it doesnt matter
vivid vessel
!up
ornate heathBOT
vivid vessel
how much crests do you get from raid
blissful idol
isnt it 10 per boss?
frank finch
for heroic yeah
steep rampart
If for some reason macros for swap does not work (for example, i have 2 crowd favorite and macros swaps it with mace, but only in MH instead of OH)
You can use the following macros, where you can change the number of EquipmentSet id in brackets. If you mouseover your eqipmentset you will see what id does it have (usually it is 1, 2, 3 etc)
/run if InCombatLockdown()then print("COMBAT.")return end
/run gearToggle=not gearToggle
/run if gearToggle then C_EquipmentSet.UseEquipmentSet(2) print("BOSS") else C_EquipmentSet.UseEquipmentSet(3) print("AOE MYTHIC") end
i think 12's is the best
frank finch
12 is best if u have a premade
frank finch
yea switch it up
go hc raid
or t11 delve even
the bountiful t11 with map gives 27 gilded
worldly shale
is kir used in raid too?
vivid vessel
by the goats ye
prisma heron
might be odd to ask here but not sure where else to ask lol.
Do you guys know if any ranged dps has a dmg profile similar to outlaw where youre just constant output and not up and down with your cooldowns?
royal hollow
i heard bm/mm has like a no cd build? dont remember which one
cinder relic
might be odd to ask here but not sure where else to ask lol.
Do you guys know ...
BM has a no cd build, frost mage I think is 0 burst atm
havoc is basically no burst
desert tendon
iv still gives some damage amp but it cant be called bursty
cinder relic
ret is basically none
prisma heron
oo frost could be fun
desert tendon
Frost is kinda fun but i ve a problem with mage this tier
cinder relic
U did say casters and I named 2 melee 
desert tendon
all 3 specs have infinite ressources
prisma heron
I fell in love with the outlaw gameplay but I suck badly at melee. Not sure how you guys see anything that’s going on big pulls. I stand in everything lol
desert tendon
so rn as a mage you just learn prio
gaunt phoenix
what emblishmentys we use for outlaw? m+ completly not even 1 sec in raid
just use lens
desert tendon
you learn flury > cast > lance > lance and you good to go
red zinc
U did say casters and I named 2 melee <:pepeW:751970753682997318>
Ret barely a melee nowadays understandable mistake
desert tendon
nothing to track
rapid grail
just use lens
okk
tribal surge
What you think is the best item to buy with bullions?
red zinc
capo
vestal notch
I fell in love with the outlaw gameplay but I suck badly at melee. Not sure how ...
who cares, you going to soak everything the moment u press ks
prisma heron
lol doing rookery both bosses gave me a heart attack thinking I was falling down the middle
tribal surge
Yeah Ks is bullshit tbh
red zinc
not really
i mean that to the soak everything message not it being bullshit
It is bullshit but you can get way better at using it
nova basin
KS is the devils spell
red zinc
I play it conservatively and lose a slight bit of dps and die maybe 1 in every 5 dungeons
zac / vurai are a lot better at pressing it like a psychopath
tribal surge
Yeah I die way less times than before but still
deep sand
KS is what keeps me awake in boring groups
red zinc
its just matter of practice
Do not take it as me wanting ks to stay though fuck that spell
nova basin
It’s a healers problem tbh
tribal surge
But there are moments that you can’t use the most damageful ability and it’s sick
red zinc
eh its not that crazy
tribal surge
Like last mechagon boss 1st phase, if tank doesn’t move away from orbs I just can’t use it
nova basin
When you risk using it in the middle of 5 wax pools and don’t get stunned
proven ocean
I play it conservatively and lose a slight bit of dps and die maybe 1 in every 5...
zac and vurai were dying alot more than that
had to cr these 2 noobs like 10 times
especially zac
he was minmaxing cheatdeath alot thats for sure
red zinc
zac and vurai were dying alot more than that
idk they do like 700-800k more than me
But die a bit more often
tribal surge
Woxtoxic has a vídeo in YouTube where it shows it fixed and it’s quite good
red zinc
its worth i guess
nova basin
Thing is it’s not like a warrior demolish where it’s absolutely insane damage, it’s basically a nice finisher to help us keep up with other specs with no risk.
red zinc
Thing is it’s not like a warrior demolish where it’s absolutely insane damage, i...
bit more than a nice finisher
hidden bay
ok my guild did not appreciate my ks joke on sprocket
red zinc
what joke
tribal surge
Still trying to figure out what to use bullions on since I didn’t kill any boss in mm
gaunt phoenix
Still trying to figure out what to use bullions on since I didn’t kill any boss ...
you have heroic capo?
stuck timber
When you risk using it in the middle of 5 wax pools and don’t get stunned
I hate that boss
tribal surge
What is capo
gaunt phoenix
capo's molten knuckles
stuck timber
capos molten knuckles
gaunt phoenix
fist weapon from mug'zee
stuck timber
I am lol
hidden bay
I guess he died by using it xD
my guild died by using it
tribal surge
Im using crafter main hand and the new one from hallowfall
bright crane
That gets 5 big BOOMS
swift otter
what's best enchant for nightfall mace?
gaunt phoenix
Im using crafter main hand and the new one from hallowfall
hallowfall weapon is used on packs. You weapon swap to capo on bosses
gaunt phoenix
what's best enchant for nightfall mace?
Radiant authority
tribal surge
Can u swap weapons during m+?
gaunt phoenix
yeah always could
tribal surge
Sorry I’m kinda new to competitive
bright crane
I’m surprised they haven’t fixed that
pure folio
hallowfall weapon is used on packs. You weapon swap to capo on bosses
That makes sense, when I simmed for dslice hcapo was still behind. I guess I should sim ST?
gaunt phoenix
if you want to see capo value on st sure
pure folio
Also it was telling me to replace my myth peacemaker with a h vexie trinket
The like gear grinder or something
Seems… insane to me
gaunt phoenix
geargrinder is generally bis for outlaw
pure folio
Weird to be replacing the crit trinket for it though
gaunt phoenix
outlaw has always liked damage trinkets over stats
pacemaker is fine, though crit value is lower this tier
pure folio
Then I’d be stuck with two on use
tribal surge
Im using gesrgrinder and the one from flood
pure folio
Honey Buzzer and that
pure folio
Im using gesrgrinder and the one from flood
I think I might do that
Despite what the sim says
rapid grail
rapid grail
thsi is my gear rn should i just pick up pacemaker or just egt the mugzee wepon?
pls dont tell me sim
pure folio
Ur Vers is really low
gaunt phoenix
get a capo
bright crane
Jesus so much mastery
pure folio
I agree
bright crane
Why
rapid grail
Ur Vers is really low
ah yeah i dont have gear rn that much i will craft fingers and it will be fine i think
pure folio
Capo would be good for u
rapid grail
Capo would be good for u
so no pacemaker trinekt from flood on myth track and capo on HC
?
pure folio
Yea trinkets this tier are mid
rapid grail
ah kk ty ❤️
pure folio
A heroic pacemaker is good enough if that’s what u want
bright crane
You gotta replace ur rings asap brotherman
pure folio
^
And ur ring enchants
@gaunt phoenix how much mastery and crit do you have when u do m+ for kir
I’ve been trying to sim and find a good balance
It wants me at like 19% mastery
fallen knot
the renown guy of this week for raid is bugged yes?
tribal surge
what trinket is the peacemaker?
pure folio
what trinket is the peacemaker?
Last boss floodgate
fallen knot
pacemaker
bright crane
The one that looks like a white doll
gaunt phoenix
ur mastery is the minimum from tier (2500 ish)
i have 11000 crit and 20000 vers, but the difference between that and like 6000 crit 25000 vers is minimal
fallen knot
the one where i can buy stuff to improve my consumables in raid
i cant interact with it
pure folio
Yea I thought so, thank you
tribal surge
Fk i was looking for peacemaker and not pacemaker
Yeah cool that's why i didnt understand xD
red zinc
@gaunt phoenix ima compare logs from yesterday vs today
Think theres something wrong honestly
gaunt phoenix
wrong with what
red zinc
damage gain
gaunt phoenix
damage gain from what
red zinc
doesnt seem in line with sims / usual ilvl gains
bright crane
From bein a silly lil goose
gaunt phoenix
might take a lot of convincing to find something wrong with the literal attack power damage formula and/or stat scaling with gear
lime lake
green text
sour gulch
bottom text
bright crane
Ol tends to like cantrips
gaunt phoenix
Idk we have high vers crit
red zinc
might take a lot of convincing to find something wrong with the literal attack p...
I mean that wouldnt be the issue
im just saying the damage people are doing now is a lot more gain than should come from 6-7 ilvl
gaunt phoenix
yeah so
red zinc
idk bugged spell or some shit
gaunt phoenix
that would be something wrong with a core game system no
bright crane
Hey man
sour gulch
is capos bad for m+
bright crane
Heard of the phrase “don’t look a gift horse in the mouth”?
sour gulch
L
gaunt phoenix
so you mean for outlaw or for everyone
sour gulch
for outlaw
sour gulch
sadge
gaunt phoenix
you swap weapons to cudgel for packs
wintry solar
Mainhand?
gaunt phoenix
No..
sour gulch
i don't even have a hc weapon
wintry solar
No I mean, what's mainhand
sour gulch
capo is gonna be my first one from curio
gaunt phoenix
just some mythic/crafted mainhand
sour gulch
capo is gonna be my mainhand consiidering mine are 658
gaunt phoenix
you should craft 681 mh
gaunt phoenix
yeah so
sour gulch
i need to get gilded first
wintry solar
No gold and no mats
It'll be a capo mainhand angle for me as well for a bit
The dinar is weekly right?
gaunt phoenix
naw
wintry solar
Aw man
gaunt phoenix
oh you prob get 1 weekly but it takes 3 to buy
covert kestrel
My outlaw gets 0 upgrade from any content I've done 
wintry solar
His outlaw doesn't get upgrades because he pushed it to the edge, mine doesn't get upgrades because I stopped pushing months ago
covert kestrel
No like I just don't mythic raid and have mythic trinkets already, yay dinars uselss
keen wraith
what are you using to sim m+ damage? raidbots dungeon slice or patchwork 5 targets?
keen wraith
yea to pick gear
tribal surge
Do we have to use two 2.6 weapons or it can be 2.60 and 1.80?
gaunt phoenix
1.8 is fine
its about the same as 2.6
slightly better even
just from instant poison hits
but our offhands are proc weapons (capo and cudgel)
which is more impactful than the instant poison quirk
wintry solar
No like I just don't mythic raid and have mythic trinkets already, yay dinars us...
Weapons?
jolly jackal
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
Guy's - Afenar's Edit 
Luxthos Edit
Zac's Group 
Devlin
Utilities:
Combo Point Standalone
Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
Ace refund sound trigger
RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
Unseen Blade tracker
Fun:
Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
KS Ticking damage taken
rapid grail
You gotta replace ur rings asap brotherman
yeah im agree with you xD
this emblish isnt better than lens for m+?
gaunt phoenix
that is lens
red zinc
farming declines
i mean for zac i dont get it
but theres just 3.4/3.5k premades applying every key
i get why we dont get in
wide flare
Is wax whistle simming higher pacemaker for you guys? I'm not sure what to get with my Cartel Chips (only 3/8 MM) https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/n13b3dbZbhWDTNSXLkzKh1
frail veldt
No like I just don't mythic raid and have mythic trinkets already, yay dinars us...
sounds like you dont need the badluck protection haha
wide flare
Otherwise I'm thinking double use with Signet or Honey Buzzer
frail veldt
I think geargrinder + a passive is prob the best/easiest to use
so either pacemaker or whistle
both very close
I think wox ran whistle on tourney for mdi
Theres definitely good optimzations you can make with the magnet trinket
glass mortar
Whistle sims same for me at target cap as pacemaker but should beat it at lower target counts so
Also all of this is like
gaunt phoenix
its a 0.2% diff
glass mortar
I simmed like 10 trinkets at 684 yesterday and the gap between the worst and best combo was 1%
Most were less then 0.2%
Xd
Play what u want idk
In aoe and st btw
frail veldt
Yeah I have remnant but I feel like its inconsistent so im gona swap it for pacemaker probably
glass mortar
Even at 8 targets it barely maters
wide flare
yeah for sure, seems like it doesn't have much impact of you have a mix of the 5/6 trinkets that are viable
frail veldt
yeah for sure, seems like it doesn't have much impact of you have a mix of the 5...
correct
distant bronze
/m
frail veldt
o/
glass mortar
I'm probably gunna end up running magnet and mine cart in keys
Magnet sims mid (so like 0.3% worse then the best combos) but the flexibility is really nice
And occasionally sniping things with it for bonus stacks
frail veldt
I dont even want to think about another trinket that much
geargrinder cranks plenty for me
helps me keep up in the juicy pulls
bright crane
It gets 5 big BOOMs from mew
tidal frost
is there any way for blade rush to be a viable part of a build?
frail veldt
True
frail veldt
is there any way for blade rush to be a viable part of a build?
Not really
its way too far down in our tree
its competing with nodes like CtO and Ace up your sleeve
like its not even close to that level of power
if they put it up top it might be more realistic
gaunt phoenix
Br is hardly worth pressing even if talented
frail veldt
yeah truuuu
even when we could take it, you wouldnt press it unless you were out of energy af
gaunt phoenix
Raw bf damage too high rn
tidal frost
pliant wind
i was in stealth for like 2 or 3 mins with AR and BF activated and the buff time is decreasing slowly (?)
did you know that?
blissful idol
Yes
gaunt phoenix
the pause mechanic is really a 100x slowdown
wide flare
Yes, the buffs permanant but you still lose like 0.1s on those CD every 5-10secs
glass mortar
there is no function in wow to make a temporary buff permanent
afaik
any buff thats "extended" works like this
its just slowed down by a maaaaasive amount
wide flare
Yeah that’s it
glass mortar
new game engine when
bright crane
Never
wide flare
Maybe after the Last Titan expansion but i doubt it
glass mortar
we kill the titans and remake the world engine
the world engine is the wow engine
wow 2 comes out
pliant wind
:O
glass mortar
glass mortar
world first race kills the last titan for the first time and the whole game becomes unplayable, and then blizzard is like "ok heres wow 2"
id respect it
all of the boss mechanics are just the game fighting you
WA break
players get random lag spikes
half the raid desyncs in phase 2
wide flare
One guild activating wow 2 goes hard
night dragon
Do we, due to ghostly strike, pick the highest hp target and do our rotation from there, or do we actively adjust target selection to hit most targets due to bf?
wide flare
Kinda like Anh’Kiraj doors
gaunt phoenix
Legion was the real end of wow and the rest was a fever dream
bright crane
Do we, due to ghostly strike, pick the highest hp target and do our rotation fro...
U don’t want to swap off the target with GS
glass mortar
well ur target selection shuldnt really impact how many targets u cleave
but yes generally u do want to be hitting the highest hp mob in a pack
unless there is a more important mob to kill off
gaunt phoenix
you cleave around your character position not target position
glass mortar
and if you play ghostly you want to try to not swap off the target unless ghostly comes off cd
night dragon
okay so ideally then GS on highest hp mob
cinder relic
Games as a service game really struggle to make sequels
glass mortar
its not the end of the world tho
night dragon
you cleave around your character position not target position
oh yeah ofc..... im dumb
bright crane
okay so ideally then GS on highest hp mob
Yes. Or w/e target u want to burn down quicker
glass mortar
Games as a service game really struggle to make sequels
plus the mmorpg market is not exactly vibrant in this day and age
gaunt phoenix
You can also just not use GS
cinder relic
Even if a sequel would objectively be good for the game
glass mortar
probably a hard sell to get support to make a whole new game
gaunt phoenix
I play HO without GS
glass mortar
yea
even if its like 99% wow and just a new engine and story
thats probably way more work then just adding more expansions
night dragon
might be tempted to give that a try solo
i just have enough haste, that seem to benefit kir more at the moment
bright crane
KiR just has a higher haste requirement
Beyond the haste req, haste is pretty useless regardless of the build
night dragon
okay i see. I need to get more into the details of outlaw
will benefit me alot i think
bright crane
Guides here and on wowhead are good
night dragon
and just so I know where to look and get into the details - can you point me in the right direction so I know where to learn 😄
nice!
late swallow
i want a ryukage wowhead article immediately
magic shuttle
cinder relic
Wowhead missing some fine details, as my argument is that obsessing over fine details when Ur a noob is going to lead to less damage
This discord has a few more niche rules articulated a bit more in depth
cinder relic
Had to after what they did to sub
bright crane
Makes sense
late swallow
state of sub is actually insane
craggy barn
!haste
ornate heathBOT
Total stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.
*But Haste has a **requirement ** because 
Adrenaline Rush lowers your GCD based on it, down to 0.8s at 25% haste.
The 
KIR build wants 18-20% haste from rating, because its only haste buff is from 
Alacrity.
The 
HO build meets this requirement with 8-10% haste from rating because of 
Take 'em by Surprise, but the new HO + Supercharger build continues to like Haste just because of energy, so you will have to sim. Your sim may settle for KIR-levels of haste (~18%) or slightly lower.
You need to use 
Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use.
You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.
bright crane
Yeha it was looking good at the start of the season but damn
It really makes me think that there are serious changes on the horizon
glass mortar
u know we always talk about scaling issues
sub doesnt exactly scale well either
i guess they have 1 decent secondary but like, haste and crit are still pp poopoo no?
random stirrup
crit is okay once ur drd on mastery
glass mortar
ok like, as good or better then vers, or ok like
not haste
keeping in mind any secondary thats worse then vers even when u have no vers is objectively "bad" at scaling
bright crane
I love that our bis secondary is vers
random stirrup
ok like, as good or better then vers, or ok like
i'll do a stat weight one sec
pretty sure its like around vers though
glass mortar
our evoker is simming for 3.2m dps in his upgraded gear
surely we'll break 3m in bis gear
pure folio
"trinket 2" would be pacemaker here, yes?
daring oxide
general grevious
bright crane
general grevious
This bug is hella annoying
random stirrup
ok like, as good or better then vers, or ok like
im a bit low on vers atm
so ya its around vers value
glass mortar
honestly not as bad as i thought
still not good tho
altho having a secondary above agi at least
red zinc
me and gang
random stirrup
yea no the scaling is not great
glass mortar
funny that its vers
daring oxide
glass mortar
ye mastery prob above agi before all the DRs
daring oxide
@red zinc lol was literally gonna post the same screenshot
red zinc
thoughts on the mog?
bright crane
The new black t2 tint + orange thunder fury would look pretty pog
The only whack thing about the Lego tints is that the lightening that trails is always blue
daring oxide
The new black t2 tint + orange thunder fury would look pretty pog
I'm trying to get orange thunderfuryt
but ive no idea how to
or how to track it
bright crane
I think you just get it no?
daring oxide
nope haven't got it yet
glass mortar
if u check the achivement/unlock for it on wowhead and look at the comments im sure someone has a macro script to check ur status on it
daring oxide
glass mortar
that means nothing to me
glass mortar
i think just doing world quests with the mog on is enough then, it just takes alot
isnt it like 1k or something
vivid vessel
why does he have flag
i think it bugs out when we are in sl
random stirrup
secret zac bug abuse
glass mortar
yea someone in here asked why outlaw had flag the other day
turns out they were summoning outside ToP
patent mirage
in sl dungeon it looks like you got your old covenant spell on
raven condor
pirate-ninja-magical girl squad hype
eager rose
@daring oxide ks rework in 11.1.9?
cloud thunder
before I even got gear i went from 5m to 6m on priory
are u doing keys with affix? affix is vers buff
gaunt phoenix
i don't see an unexpected diff in raid logs
glass mortar
i feel like its just the way gearing is working out
if ur a smart player, ur using all ur upgrades on ur strongest pieces of gear first, meaning while gearing up u are probably getting closer to 2% dps per ilvl then the proper average
since u can leave rings and cloak and bracers all to the very end
theres no rng involved
polar kelp
Weapon > chest/legs > trinkets > crafted with embellishments > everything else...is usually safe
glass mortar
yup
but if u gain 4 ilvls and it was from just upgrading all ur weapons, trinkets, chest and legs
u got more dps per ilvl then the average scaling of ur spec
polar kelp
For sure
muted breach
I see the pin talks about the nightfall curseblade crudgel beeing in the offhand, is that required for it to be good or is it just cause of itlvl beeing low (if u have a higher weapon itlvl )
glass mortar
probably still more worth then about half ur gear
but yea its not the highest prio for sure
midnight granite
Mainstat way more value than offhand
glass mortar
offhand has mainstat
midnight granite
Smol
glass mortar
is it smol
polar kelp
Also if anyones having trouble remembering to swap weapons in keys...I have a simple but effective WA that has the weapon icon and changes when you swap.....it's been super helpful for me to quickly see which weapon I'm using. Also makes it easier to swap during trash when there's only 1-2 targets left
gaunt phoenix
it is
random stirrup
bracers have more mainstat than oh
muted breach
when the pin talks about weapon swap, do u mean u use it for only first 10 sec then switch to other weapon ?
glass mortar
u swap to a ilvl weapon for bosses
or in raid
u use cudgel on trash
u dont swap in combat unless u forgot to
(u can if u need to)
muted breach
ahhh i zee, tyty
polar kelp
u dont swap in combat unless u forgot to
Well......yes and no
If you wanna be degen you can swap in combat on trash packs if your comp doesn't have enough prio and you gotta kill some stupid 1 mob left
Like Chewie for example
glass mortar
idk u gain like 1% dps for a gcd
is it even a gain
i guess maybe it is, depending how much hp the mob has when u swap
assuming everything else is dead
polar kelp
Ionno but I feel good doing it haha
glass mortar
actually is it even a dps gain on 1 target if u can proc cudgel?
glass mortar
the reason u swap cudgel for bosses is vanish wont reset it
vanish still resets it on those boss high hp trash mobs
polar kelp
True but it's like a 600 agi loss, my thought was on st or low count that the agi would do more then the proc
But honestly it's probably so minor that it doesn't matter
glass mortar
yea not sure, it would need to be something checked with overrides since only dslice lets the sim properly "reset" cudgel
cant see in patchwerk
or on the boss section of dslice
polar kelp
Like for example on big momma I swap multiple times
Il keep cudgel for add phase
Then swap for burn
eager rose
😩
polar kelp
But again
...minor
glass mortar
i dont know if cudgel is even worth in aoe if u cant reset it tho
idk that sounds like its probably
neutral at best
polar kelp
Prob lol
glass mortar
its really the vanish resets that give it the value
but i doubt its a big loss either way
or a big gain
nothing big about this weapon
its funny weaponswapping tho
and seeing people inspecting me pre key and seeing a 658 in my oh
polar kelp
It's just like everything else with outlaw...we fight for every .2%
glass mortar
i should probably get the WA but ive been lazy
i put a different color enchant on my cudgel
so i can tell which weapon is on
polar kelp
I can send you a simple icon swap I use if you want, I just put it below my bars so it's a good visual
glass mortar
i know theres multiple WA for it posted in here so dw about it, im just lazy
and possibly planning on deleting wow in its entirety from my pc again along with all my addons to start from scratch
havent been in on prog raiding recently so it hasnt been a big deal but im just tired of being half unable to play this spec in raid instances
polar kelp
How so? The roll ruleset? Or just prio order
glass mortar
nah i have severe gcd issues in raid
my spellqueue/gcd window just falls apart at random several times a fight
end up sending the same button 4-5 times in a row while mashing other buttons
or being unable to even get a spell to go off
its a unique (not to me) issue that some players have had this expac
we have a post on the forums
but its super fuckin annoying with this spec
losing a whole crackshot window to casting PS 4 times in a row
while im mashing BtE
polar kelp
Do you have that dynamic scaling thing turned on that blizz uses? Depending on how graphically intense the fight is, the game changes your settings?
Or it's just some connection bug
glass mortar
nah
i dont know what it is, what ive tried so far is playing the game with no addons, playing the game with all minimum graphics settings ,and a clean install of the game
none of that worked tho
but maybe i missed something when i last did a clean install so
im getting desperate enough to try again
daring oxide
<@105752825878843392> ks rework in 11.1.9?
11.1.7 i still believe
hybrid crown
On sprocket I'm pretty sure all my DPS improvements have come from fucking with my graphics settings
It's sooo bad
glass mortar
it is a very very strange/unique issue. theres no lag or fps drops/desyncs. the only thing deynced is my gcd
hybrid crown
I have a 5800x3d and a 3080 too
polar kelp
it is a very very strange/unique issue. theres no lag or fps drops/desyncs. the ...
Is your spell que window for raid set the same as outside of raid?
glass mortar
yea
i use 150 for both
used 250 for awhile cause i used to play on 160 ping but now im down to 80 ping with VPN so
👏
minor improvements
random stirrup
its a unique (not to me) issue that some players have had this expac
ive only really had this happen on outlaw fwiw
glass mortar
this entire issue is brand new with TWW tho so i have a feeling there is some fuckery on the backend
random stirrup
bte triple sending itself
glass mortar
dont really know what to do about it
random stirrup
all other specs are fine
glass mortar
ive only really had this happen on outlaw fwiw
it is definitly haste related
polar kelp
Is your VPn changing your IP randomly and creating a delay?
glass mortar
outlaw just plays like it has 90% haste
the only times i ever had this issue as survival in s1 was when i had PI+lust overlapped
and even then, sending a bad gcd as survival is very very minor compared to outlaw
glass mortar
Is your VPn changing your IP randomly and creating a delay?
nah i got the VPN to try to help with the issue
i thought maybe my routing was fukt or something
polar kelp
Sorry to hear that sucks friend
glass mortar
mhm
there was a reddit post tho, and a wow forum post so
now i just wait and pray
polar kelp
You can live vicariously through all of us lol
glass mortar
or give up
at least HO is good
kir is so fukin doomed to play with this
i didnt expect to be in on prog on mugzee or further anyway, we have a sin rogue and that spec is like objectively better to prog as then outlaw
especially fukin kspree outlaw
polar kelp
What are your thoughts if they turned killing spree into a 6 second channel but you're stationary. Like ray of frost, the longer you hold it the more damage it does
So you're incentive is to do the full channel...but you don't get warped around
glass mortar
well 6s is a but lunacy, anytime ur pausing outlaws rotation it feels awful, but like
thats basically wox change right
its just a 2-3 second "lockout" of slashing animation while u can still move and stuff
late swallow
every outlaw finisher should be an empowered cast
glass mortar
i think WWs fun i wouldnt hate a psuedo channeled spell like that
as long as it isnt schitzo teleporting us around
polar kelp
its just a 2-3 second "lockout" of slashing animation while u can still move and...
But isn't that just like rampage or w.e the fury war one is
glass mortar
rampage is 1 gcd
but i mean isnt a long channel for kspree just like fists of fury? maybe but theres no issue with that if thats what they want it to be
i just dont know how u make it not clash with the flow of outlaw and keep it working as it does
polar kelp
Yea you got me there, that's true
Low key I'm actually used to KS now and it would feel a bit lacking If they took it away
glass mortar
every outlaw finisher should be an empowered cast
i think i said like 3 months ago "what if they rework kspree and its an empower spell"
i think zac almost had an aneurysm
polar kelp
But they should have made a KS death counter to go with it
late swallow
i think i said like 3 months ago "what if they rework kspree and its an empower ...
certified zac crashout momentr
a few hours after, you'd read a story in the news about a french man in his mid 20s driving his car into a crowd somewhere in southern france
gaunt phoenix
glass mortar
he just drowns his sorrows in french taco
its ok
at least the spec does damage now, even tho it dies
cloud thunder
end up sending the same button 4-5 times in a row while mashing other buttons
i have this exact same issue holy fk ive never heard someone else have this issue
im tryina spam gcd's faster but if press the gcd more than 3 times
it sends it twice
or some shit
glass mortar
i felt bad for zac before when he was trying to make it work, minmaxing and playing around kspree like an absolute lunatic in these high keys
and the spec didnt even do damage because of the bugs
late swallow
zac the kinda guy to throw french tacos at migrant boats at the beach
gaunt phoenix
end up sending the same button 4-5 times in a row while mashing other buttons
broo
no idea it was like that
that would make me install
uninstall even
glass mortar
thats at its worse, usually its just like, 2-3 buttons in a row are the buttons i hit 2s ago
going off
and the game is straight up ignoring my inputs
can literally sit there and stare at my gcd swinging on my bar
and it doesnt matter
my inputs dont go off
ive had ogcds not go off
i thought it was lag for about a month but its clearly not lag, i can move my character and theres no desync in any boss animations
its just
when it happens in a crackshot window
lose 70% of the window
eager rose
Would any outlaw make a guide with the best moments to use KS in m+? like, safe moment to use
I can contribute to this too
polar kelp
Would any outlaw make a guide with the best moments to use KS in m+? like, safe ...
Everytimw you can use it, do it. If you see that you hit something or are gonna land in bad....spam cloak
If no cloak, spam feint and potion
If no anything.....pray
copper robin
so ive just seen sprocketmonger on mythic, how the fuck do u play ks into this xddd
hasty warren
I hate stix
copper robin
so fun my whole raid going sky
keen belfry
what should i buy with dinars guys
glass mortar
at least fatebound can stand up on ST
crisp condor
Occasionally when killing spree makes me land in something bad, the damage afterwards will be like tick 750k, tick 750k, tick 750k, hit with 4.5m at once. What's up with that?
copper robin
yeah fb time aware
keen belfry
should i just pacemaker
glass mortar
fatebounds funny on that fight tho u can be very clutch with mines (usually not needed)
copper robin
wdym?
glass mortar
my RL was like "i didnt wanna give u backup on that mine because its across the map"
and i was like
i can be anywhere in this entire fight and back in less then 2 seconds as fatebound
copper robin
oh yeah the 4 hooks right
copper robin
lmao haha
rotund pulsar
!prekey
ornate heathBOT
Pre-key fuckery
- RTB as you enter the dungeon to get 2 Supercharger stacks.
- DO NOT RTB again inside the bubble as you will lose the supercharger stacks, similarly do not AR early inside the bubble or you will lose the combo points.
- After the bubble drops use RTB again (now at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
- Before entering the first pack
BF into 
Stealth. - Open on pack with AR into BtE.
hasty warren
my RL is ordering me to not play KS in raid for sproket
hasty warren
guess ive no choice
glass mortar
its not something thats possible
fluid meadow
any helper with this? meanwhile i don't do any raid i could buy hc capo( with weapon swap) or myth pacemaker, this sim isn't the best option but smthing like this. but i can't decide if a bit more aoe or more ST for success on keys at overall
glass mortar
i am however, impressed ur raid leader knows enough about outlaw to even tell u that
hasty warren
i am however, impressed ur raid leader knows enough about outlaw to even tell u ...
it's an irl friend I teach hil the firbiden arcanes
red zinc
how do you die with cheat death
red zinc
nahaha
hasty warren
get gud ig
red zinc
thats why damage is lower
glass mortar
is there an actual reason to go pacemaker
fallen knot
please help
glass mortar
zac i need ur insight
fallen knot
i
vivid vessel
ye if you wanna do less damage weran
fallen knot
am progressing sprocket
fallen knot
i played melee tonight
daring oxide
i was in ks
i died to the exact same thing
fallen knot
but
glass mortar
should we not just always play minecart trinket
proven ocean
daring oxide
when we played with zeross earlier
vivid vessel
<@352916297262301194> now im r1 all players on EU
gg
glass mortar
w/e its called
fallen knot
we keep wiping during or before the 1st launch
glass mortar
darkflame one
vivid vessel
@proven ocean show gear
vivid vessel
not bad
proven ocean
4:28 boss fight last boss btw
lol
i was above the udk before i swapped to sub
crazy or?
vivid vessel
im working trough mine ross
proven ocean
and hes the best udk i ever played with
vivid vessel
i just need to do my crafts now
proven ocean
i think sin has the best overall dmg in the game in some keys now
frank finch
what u used ur dinar on?
vivid vessel
capo uwu
vivid vessel
@proven ocean
eager rose
4:28 boss fight last boss btw
raid boss
proven ocean
and i took it for gally prog too
copper radish
i play turbo conservative with ks
My moto with KS. LET IT FLY. Off CD and some boss aoe or trash aoe coming up? Fk it. Let it fly
glass mortar
any helper with this? meanwhile i don't do any raid i could buy hc capo( with we...
ur gunna get 3 total remember but personally id probably go with a capo
proven ocean
full pug
proven ocean
go time it
ye we did
glass mortar
im not sure pacemaker is even worth it, i only use it cause i got one in my vault
proven ocean
we 1 shotted it full pug
red zinc
go time the 21
glass mortar
once ive spent all 3 dinar i'll probably end up using the stupid minecart trinket
red zinc
im not sure pacemaker is even worth it, i only use it cause i got one in my vaul...
the difference between all those trinkets is so piss
glass mortar
it sims the same on target cap and beats pacemaker at anything under that
red zinc
i wouldnt be worried
glass mortar
sure but ur choosing a trinket
might as well choose the best one
if its just a passive
glass mortar
thats odd
red zinc
i have like no crit
late swallow
fluid meadow
i don't have any myth trinket, so the thing still that, if myth trinket or hc capo buy
glass mortar
ok what is ur current non cudgel offhand
my next queston is going to be is herioc capo even a 1.9% dps upgrade or is that just because u put depths on it
does ur other offhand have depths
steady coyote
what keys can safely do as outlaw?
glass mortar
none of them but also all of them to answer the spirit of ur question
kspree isnt safe anywhere friend
but u gotta try to make it work
worse dungeon for it is probably workshop
fluid meadow
i have crafted offhand with radiant rn so sim is fake, should resim, it put depths on offhand for st
glass mortar
yea
that way u see the tru capo value
and my gut is gunna be a better buy for u is a mythic track trinket
glass mortar
i have crafted offhand with radiant rn so sim is fake, should resim, it put dept...
i would personally also recommend depths on offhand for ST
especially if ur playing around cudgel now
any serious aoe situation ur probably gunna have cudgel on. theres a few raid fights radiant might be a bit more overall dps but, the dif is probably very small
fluid meadow
yea sure weapon enchant changes need on offhand
remote pike
Guys I need some help here... I'm trying to decide what to upgrade first. I try to sim mainhand, got an everforged sword and myth crowdfavorite, and i put them against each other in max possible ilvls. I remove embellishment from sword. Why does the sword win? I don't understand (same stats)
red zinc
upgrade order doesnt matter when crests are uncapped
remote pike
it does for me
glass mortar
it could be any number of reasons but the pins also have some info about crafted items so
proven ocean
@vivid vessel
glass mortar
my guess is gunna either be ur simming kir and droping 400 haste so ur barely at the haste cap and dropping under it, or the crafted item bug from the pins
remote pike
next wedge
holy haste
remote pike
probably the bug yeah, but that was referring to items that i didnt have
unkempt smelt
guys to craft a max ilvl item u need to spend 90 crests or only 60 ? (not recraft but brand new craft)
random stirrup
ive done 25 keys this week and need 10 more