outlaw

[near holly]

Anyone think the crafting trick may work with these new crafts? Maybe the item counts new with the upgrade ?

[muted zenith]

That's interesting, I don't seem to fully grasp the relation of haste into it being a requirement.
What are we talking about here? like a few % difference if I don't have a certain amount of haste or is it like massive, dont even think about it type thing?

[hybrid crown]

Haste reduces your gcd when ADR is active

Caps at 25% haste

You want to hit that with haste on gear + talents or you won't be pressing buttons fast enough basically

With current builds that ends up being like 17-20% haste for most builds

[past falcon]

pre TWW, adrenaline rush just gave us its full effect and GCD reduction. blizzard didn’t like that outlaw only used two out of four secondary stats, so now adrenaline rush scales with haste. you NEED a baseline amount of haste to gain the FULL adrenaline rush GCD reduction. once you hit that baseline amount, there’s no more value from haste (besides energy regen, important for KIR), and it drops off in priority

you can tackle all of that just by simming your char through top gear or droptimizer. the point is that KIR has a higher haste requirement and it feels bad to play without it, so you usually start with HO until you can get the right gear for KIR anyway

[unreal drum]

tldr haste = lower gcd during adren = more spenders = more cdr = more adren

more adren = more dps

[muted zenith]

okay! that's super helpful! thank you so much!

[past falcon]

ofc!! the FAQ in discord is really helpful if you haven’t read through it all yet

[jolly jackal]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[rotund zodiac]

hi chat

outlaw need more love

[jolly geyser]

KS fix etc

[safe pasture]

On the note of gcd and haste what’s the logic behind not wanting to hit the full 25% was always curious

[vivid vessel]

alacrity

5%

[safe pasture]

Ooo tyyy xd

[heavy shadow]

Anyone know what this resi means?

[urban bramble]

Resilient

Key won’t drop to 13 if they fail so can just try again

Or

[heavy shadow]

the note is likw 10k per try

[urban bramble]

Funi res man

[heavy shadow]

so they mean their group is boosting as many tries as it takes to time?

[urban bramble]

Oh they doing that scummy shit

[safe pasture]

Ya people sell spots to their res

[urban bramble]

Each attempt is 10k

[safe pasture]

It’s against tos tho I think just not enforced

[heavy shadow]

What's the rule against that anyway, only the key owner has to have timed all to be able to not depleat?

[safe pasture]

Correct once you time all at 12+ it won’t go below that number

So all 12s never below 12 all 13s never below 13 etc

[heavy shadow]

Shame it doesn't start at 11 :/

[safe pasture]

If you have guildies or friends that have a resil key can see if they will let you in buddy helped me with cinder when I needed my first 12 for it

Helps a lot on dungeons that you are struggling with

[heavy shadow]

Yeah would be nice, I have weird play times and I'm pugging it up atm

[safe pasture]

Well if ya hit me up Saturday or Sunday could maybe help with my keys only chance I got to push sense I’m out all week for work

[heavy shadow]

Very nice of you to offer, sadly my weekend is totally blocked atm also, part of the problem haha

Really want the 3k mount but feels like a long way away

[safe pasture]

Ripp and you’ll def get it if you are getting twords 12s rn plus the higher ilvls and everything this week should be easier over all

Just takes time

[heavy shadow]

Ah true yeah the ilvls will help. I timed my first 12 last night (+2 as matter of fact) but mostly I've not even done all 11s yet

[safe pasture]

Ya your def gona get it brother just keep pushin don’t let the pugs break you lol

[latent oak]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[copper radish]

So I’m trying to narrow down what second trinket I want. I have a heroic gear grinder. What would go best for both keys and raid as a second?

Either the mega magnet or the zug hotline I was looking at. Anyone have preference between those two?

Was looking at maybe tryna get the conductors whistle too

[tidal frost]

are outlaw rogues really that high apm? Im looking at warcraft logs and it shows them being like 90+ apm which seems crazy. I play fury but I feel like that doesnt come close

[rotund zodiac]

Zac, do you still use cheat death in 16s?

[vivid vessel]

Wcl APM isn't accurate at all

[rotund zodiac]

I'm gonna do a 16

[vivid vessel]

every spec has a bunch of fake cast

outlaw sim apm is 90 tho ye

fury is closer to 70 iirc

70/80

[vivid vessel]

ye

i stopped using it in 17/18 bnecasue i have no choice

[cinder relic]

Fury is slightly slower than outlaw but not really

[rotund zodiac]

aye, wish me luck

[vivid vessel]

i would recommend to play cheat till you cannot anymore

[cinder relic]

It's like 5 less apm than outlaw which u can't really feel the difference of

[tidal frost]

ah ok maybe I will give outlaw a try then, I really like the whole sword and gun thing its got going on but the apm always scare me lol

[proven ocean]

U can only use one sword

The other is a dagger cuz 0.2% dps gain cringe shit

Which they will fix after u quit wow

[vivid vessel]

well

we use the event weapon rn

a mace

[proven ocean]

One time thing

[edgy phoenix]

did they add cudgel to sims

my mugzee weapon still simming 1.5% more even tho it does less dmg

[quasi notch]

Do you guys use apm trackers

[proven ocean]

wtf

Ofc not

[quasi notch]

Wym it’s like dps meter

[vivid vessel]

yes but no

it wont work against bosses in sims

same as real work

so only way to sim really is in slice

but you can just trust us

and equip it in dungeons

weapon swap to normal weapon on bosses if you wanna minmax 1/2% st dps

[proven ocean]

Nerf weapon

Plz

[rotund zodiac]

ok the key is bricked

[proven ocean]

Cringe wep swap shit

[rotund zodiac]

[viral flume]

Why the hell does the outlaw dev insist on sandbagging one of the most fun specs in the game with this killing spree stupidity?

Like come the fuck on

[proven ocean]

Why the hell does the outlaw dev insist on sandbagging one of hte most fun specs in the game with this killing spree stupidity?

[quasi notch]

@rotund zodiac what key was it?

[rotund zodiac]

top 16

[copper radish]

With Geargrinder what second trinket do yall find yourself using the most

[vivid vessel]

You litteraly swap spec

[proven ocean]

Did u waste hundreds of dollars on ur pfp

[vivid vessel]

While in a Key

Don talk to me about weapon swapping being cringe

[proven ocean]

Swapping spec is cringe too i didnt say that but sin cant live

[copper radish]

Google images broski

[vivid vessel]

You absolute degenerate

[proven ocean]

Weapon swapping is more cringe

Weirdo

[vivid vessel]

Than swapping specs ?

[proven ocean]

My spec cant live

[vivid vessel]

Bro have to teleport out

[proven ocean]

Maybe consider that

[vivid vessel]

To swap spec

And go back in

[proven ocean]

Instead of being perma weird

On every msg u send

[vivid vessel]

That's not more cringe ?

[proven ocean]

Outlaw otp

[quasi notch]

Does spec swapping affect logs?

[proven ocean]

Yea

In a negative way usually

[quasi notch]

Damn

[copper radish]

Can we have a sin vs outlaw DPS challenge in a key. I wanna see outlaw crush

[rotund zodiac]

[vivid vessel]

Not really no cause since you go out you stop logging the events

Only if it's someone else logging than you

[quasi notch]

But in mechagon

It’s good no?

[vivid vessel]

i have no idea what you are asking about

[rotund zodiac]

he meant being sin on first big pull workshop?

idk

[proven ocean]

I never log

My team too

Its usually the pug dk/tank that logs

And thats if they log too

[quasi notch]

Mine just auto logs everything

[outer saddle]

Ahoy, how do we simm for m+?

[reef forge]

Dungeon slice

[outer saddle]

thank you!

[vapid blaze]

zac could u share your heal absorb wa? or is that a suf script

[muted zenith]

Is that realiable? I thought it's usually bait for most specs.
I sim 5-targets 5 minutes

am I cooked

[vivid vessel]

Ye it's a weak aura

But

Idk if you saw

It kinda goes all over my shit when it's too big

[glass mortar]

Dslice is fine

[vivid vessel]

I need to think about how I wanna display it

I know I can cut it it if it goes above my bar but I kinda wanna see how big it is

Even when it's huge

[glass mortar]

5target patchwerk is also fine as long as u realize ur not seeing the value of st in that sim

When ur making gearing decisions

[gaunt phoenix]

for outlaw dungeonslice is perfectly normal to decide on gear, sometimes trinkets look better than normal because of how the timing works out on packs

[vapid blaze]

but thats mainly just gally xD

cause you get 62mil or smth heal absorb xD

id still take it tinker with it abit
better than not seeing it

[vivid vessel]

Ye was also in workshop

Goes all over my weak auras lol

Idk if I just make it go the other way instead

[vapid blaze]

cant limit it?

[vivid vessel]

Ye you can

But then

You don't know

It'd big

[vapid blaze]

maybe add a text aswell
then youd atleast see it

[vivid vessel]

I think I'm just going to have it go the other way

So it goes off screen kekw

I'm not home rn tho can't link it to you

It's in my general interface thing tho

[vapid blaze]

no worries

[kind otter]

has cudgel been fixed?

[vivid vessel]

Probably won't why

[gaunt phoenix]

there hasnt been any hotfixes pushed to the game since may 9th

[frank finch]

anyone see a vendor in nightfall event where i can buy this?

[kind otter]

im in a floodgate and vanish hasnt reset it once in 7 mins

[gaunt phoenix]

are you using the mugzee trinket

[kind otter]

yes

[gaunt phoenix]

there's some interaction there with the gooners staying in combat

[kind otter]

i see makes sense

[gaunt phoenix]

and it not letting vanish reset it

[kind otter]

i guess its worth not using that trinket in m+ then

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah would prefer geargrinder/magnet/pacemaker/whistle

[kind otter]

noted tyvm

[copper radish]

What’s wrong with it? It’s blasting 3-4% for me in keys overall

[abstract frost]

how far behind is KiR Fatebound compared to KS trick?

in keys

[cinder relic]

a bunch

[obsidian fulcrum]

!guide

[ornate heath]

Outlaw Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/outlaw-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/outlaw-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/outlaw-rogue

[remote seal]

hello guys i need some help, im new to retail and i made auras that will show me when these 4 spells are off cooldown, but ghostly strike is never shown can somebody give any advice?

[keen belfry]

show load conditions

[wary wind]

did i miss the outlaw rogue emid expansion overview thing or hasa it not dropped yet

[cinder relic]

Not droppe yet

[keen belfry]

guy are you gonna say we want nothing fixed besides ks and the discord dooming?

[wary wind]

ok thanks foreverguy

[cinder relic]

no problem axton

[keen belfry]

do you have GS talented

[remote seal]

yes

i do

i use it all the time

[keen belfry]

are those the only ones checkmarked

[remote seal]

yes

[cinder relic]

just remake the weak aura see if it works after that

[remote seal]

but i didnt

change anything

?

thats the thing

okay

im dumb

[keen belfry]

i believe u

[remote seal]

i fixed

it

thanks

[keen belfry]

what was it

i bet u took wowhead build

[remote seal]

when u asked me if i had it talented

[keen belfry]

no gs

yup

[remote seal]

i didnt understand

that i had to talent it in weak aura

[remote seal]

nah bro its been on my bar since i got it

[keen belfry]

thats what they all say

whats its bind

[remote seal]

m4

[keen belfry]

bad bind

[keen belfry]

it should be 2

[remote seal]

nah everybody feels comfy with their binds

[keen belfry]

mhm

pistol shot is Q

id change that rn

[slate plaza]

Only mythic ring beats it

And it’s like below 1%

[glass mortar]

658 rings beat it for me

Have for awhile

Gap is small in st tho

[keen belfry]

noah fence

[past falcon]

noah fence

[frail veldt]

Champ track roulette ring beat it for me

[slate plaza]

Guess I’m wrong lol

When I simmed a 675 crafted it was barely 1% ahead

[reef forge]

does anyone know how crafted pieces work next week?

do you need to use another 60 crests for the 5 ilvl?

[neon oasis]

30 crests

[smoky venture]

I noticed in Archon for high keys our talents are difffent. Why are we playing Trickster without HO

[slate plaza]

Kir better at 8targets

[cinder relic]

Cuz trickster is always good for aoe

[shy meteor]

There is "always" a discussion on wether HO or KIR is the "better" build
So its relativly close atm

but KIR is winning out on higher target count pulls

[smoky venture]

So play KIR for dungeons like FG and CB?

and HO for like TOP

[shy meteor]

its not clear to split the builds both are good
but HO is easier than KIR
but u can both builds in every key

play*

[smoky venture]

Yeah im very familiar with both, just odd to have a mix

that threw me for a spin

Thank you all

[shy meteor]

in other words "play what u like" it will be okay

from my perspektive

[smoky venture]

btw that talent sheet was pulled from Archon

[night dragon]

Just curious, is there a "do not killing spree here during this" or a "slight window for ks here" video or list anywhere. Dont expect it, but would be nice to learn that! 😄

[slate plaza]

Nope

Someone should make one lol

[shy meteor]

[night dragon]

just need to limit test some more haha

[stoic dragon]

its fun to ks on cauldron beam and top the healing meter ^^

[red zinc]

way too much work

just a game sense thing honestly

[fallen knot]

i just made a quick calculation

so

i will need fucking 350gilded on wednesday

on main alone

and a billion valorstones probably

no nvm 350+120 cause i have 2 crafts

so i will need to run 23.5 dungeons

on 12

cool

[copper radish]

Has anyone made a Weak Aura that tracks the number of 5 rolls in a row and keeps an all time list?

I swear yesterday I had a key and I got 5 rolls about 6 times in a row. Kinda wish I was tracking it for fun lol

[cursive cradle]

Seems like all top parses use it as the first finisher after vanishing window

[vivid vessel]

!up

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1346745738532491296/New_Project.jpg

[frail veldt]

Sometimes you end a vanish window with enough cps to KS immediately

It's not a rule though

[gaunt phoenix]

ks has higher prio than vanish

[frail veldt]

Just turns out that way cuz KS is highest priority finisher outside of crackshot window

[gaunt phoenix]

this build is genuinely difficult btw

KIR with 1 point in FTH

[frail veldt]

1pt fth KiR is wild lol

I've been playing it

Lots of fun but there's just so many ways to mess up

[gaunt phoenix]

you need to be using the WA to track guaranteed unseen blade procs

[jolly tapir]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[opal raven]

hello anyone got a macro that uses the better tempered potion over the 3 ones pls ? same with hs

[normal aurora]

A small tip that has helped me improve a lot, is sending low CP KS when you aren't sure how safe it is instead of just holding it forever

[red zinc]

how impactful do you think this actually is

havent been doing it and feels fine

[west dirge]

!tricks

[ornate heath]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[bronze parcel]

feels like being mindful of the guaranteed procs after ks is the biggest part

[gaunt phoenix]

its not crazy but if you dont do it you might as well be ho

[wise vale]

Is there a weakaura reminder for swapping the cudgel on bosses?

[vivid vessel]

https://wago.io/elwWiwJax

[bronze parcel]

yuge im incessantly looking at my bar for the macro and still forgetting it

[remote pike]

can u swap gear in m+? o.O

[astral wind]

What're recommendations for outlaw dinars as someone who's played assa/sub all tier and am just about to kill myth Mug'zee? I have one myth track haste/vers 1h from m+

Is the play to send the Mug'zee weapon and Mug'zee trink? There's potential that I save 1 for jastor for gally prog but if there's a third really good item then I could do that too.

[remote pike]

mugzee wep

[astral wind]

That's for sure gonna be 1/3 of mine yeah

Assuming I can get geargrinder's from reclears, is thug's hotline that good?

[remote pike]

we talking m+ still?

[astral wind]

I guess kinda hybrid? Items that would be considered good for both raid reclears for fun and also some middling m+ (14-16 range)

That's why I'm probably not buying gally weap

[waxen scarab]

what are we taking from the dinar?

[jolly geyser]

depends what you can get

[vivid vessel]

something you dont have

this is a question we cannot answer

[astral wind]

Do we ever play gally weap in m+ or nah?

[copper radish]

Whatever boss in heroic or mythic you’ve cleared that you don’t have a bis piece from

[waxen scarab]

mugzee weapon - hotline - magneto trinket

[copper radish]

That’s the asterisk if people didn’t know. Need to have cleared the boss on whichever difficulty level to be able to buy the item. So mythic gally kill to be able to buy mythic gally wep and so on

[vivid vessel]

well

you got 3 dinars

3 items

you even got the order almsot right

magnet prolly better

[fallen knot]

best tank yet

in top

miniboss+2arbalestpull

into chainpull2nd miniboss

omega

[copper radish]

Magnet my first buy since I got that heroic stix cleared lol

[pearl trout]

I think is just for Mythic, I remember they said you could claim Hero items without killing the boss linked to that item in Heroic

[clever warren]

What is recommended low keys and low ilvl without tier? HO or KiR? and all you do is swap Sleight of Hand for Loaded Dice?

[fallen knot]

ho prob

if you dont have 20% haste

thats in general

[copper radish]

Ooo so you can do gally on LFR then buy the heroic wep

[pearl trout]

yeah is just Myth track that has the requirement

[clever warren]

prob doesn't matter really cus who cares early on ^^
thanks though

[astral wind]

Is magnet > geargrinders?

[fallen knot]

no like

you'll have a better time playing ho if you dont have haste

[clever warren]

yeah, I aint got that haste so HO it is then

[vivid vessel]

frfr

[copper robin]

nerf

[hybrid crown]

Tell people outlaw is meta now and if they play outlaw they can do those numbers

[copper robin]

buff ks no dmg as bf

[tropic zephyr]

it happens way too much in weeklies

[patent mirage]

" bf is one button "

[copper radish]

Been back in keys heavy for a week on 8-9s and idt one class has beat my outlaws overalls

[cold jewel]

just make it a toggle at this point

[copper radish]

What other classes doing huge aoe numbers like us?

[vivid vessel]

every meta specs

just not in 10s

outlaw is a bit of a weird spec cause it always blast low keys

and rn its also just a good spec in general

so in higher keys you wont do the numbers of the more meta specs

but you look extremely good in lower keys

[astral wind]

Is the play KiR or HO in keys atm? Huge keys seem like they enjoy KIR but is there like a key threshold where HO is better? Tryna plan my swap after we CE so need haste pieces

[sleek pelican]

bf spam for win

[hollow temple]

whatever you prefer really

[coral onyx]

ye i got outdmgd by a 660 enhancer today

[red zinc]

krill issue

[coral onyx]

ye

[lapis forge]

once you have 4 set, does the KiR build pull ahead of the ambush one?

[hollow temple]

nah

[coral onyx]

altough he did get every PI and used potions

[south scaffold]

guys, how much ahead is the KIR build in m+? and is it even worth going for if i just have 10% haste? lmao

[hollow temple]

they're quite close

and no

[lapis forge]

I was watching a guide on youtube and the person said that with the KiR build, you don't use Ambush at all, is that accurate?

[gaunt phoenix]

yes

[vivid vessel]

whats the guide

[keen belfry]

should i make a youtube guide with my cam on where i just stare at cam whole time

[lapis forge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80xqS7ma9DI&t=1144s

[keen belfry]

maybe talk in 3rd person

[civic meadow]

Dalaran gaming!

[lapis forge]

2 months ago, so wanted to confirm the info

[vivid vessel]

ah dalaran

[lapis forge]

and verify if it's a good source

[vivid vessel]

isnt that guy clueless

[civic meadow]

Kinda

just takes info from other cc’s

[vivid vessel]

he just does guides for every specs in the game no ?

[civic meadow]

Ye

[vivid vessel]

ok so its bad

[civic meadow]

think so

[keen belfry]

go make one then zac

[runic bough]

he played outlaw in shadowlands but outlaw has changed since then

[vivid vessel]

no

[civic meadow]

smfh

[keen belfry]

wanna duo a guide

[civic meadow]

no zac guide cant play outlaw GG

[keen belfry]

i can do the uhh builders u do spenders

[vivid vessel]

let me watch the guide

one sec

its l;ike 5 min of rotation

wont be long

[keen belfry]

its closer to 10 than 5 but gg

[gaunt phoenix]

u can text-to-speech the faq and monetize it

[vivid vessel]

not if im wathcing it in 2x

[keen belfry]

what if u watch in .5 tho

solo do you wanna join me and zac on our yyoutube guide

[keen belfry]

maybe you can do like the vibes section?

[vivid vessel]

💀

💀

[runic bough]

if i made an outlaw guide it would be a rickroll

[keen belfry]

RYUKAGE IS REDNAME!

[runic bough]

and just show a death from killingspree

[keen belfry]

redukage

[civic meadow]

there should be an outlaw guide thats just a compilation of ks deaths

maybe theyd understand then

[runic bough]

yes

that would be so funny

[vivid vessel]

how did he copy the faq while making it worse

thats impressive

[keen belfry]

Ryuykage is assassin player

[runic bough]

killingspree just tilted me so hard

like i knew it would

[keen belfry]

guys i did a 3:30 big momma kill yesterday

that felt like WR

[lapis forge]

this is why I don't trust youtube guides unless the community class discord actually thinks the person is credible and knows what they're actually talking about

[vivid vessel]

I mean its like ok but

[lapis forge]

and a huge part of the reason why I wanted to check with you all before doing anything he suggests

[vivid vessel]

the only rule he added

that isntr in the faq

is bad

[civic meadow]

dalaran gaming is just known for making like, half assed guides for specs

[vivid vessel]

he tried to think for himself for a second

and failed

like dont do this ever this is actively bad

very bad

[keen belfry]

tbf to guys like him, his guides are for entry entry level noobs right>

and its helpful for them

[vivid vessel]

the rest is just normal info you find from guide or faq so its not that bad

but there is litteraly no mention of killing spree so

[keen belfry]

so hes cooking

[vivid vessel]

maybe im not there yet

[civic meadow]

Pretty much yeah

Its like extremely new user friendly shit

[runic bough]

I told you guys hes a Shadowlands outlaw

[civic meadow]

He is an SL outlaw

[runic bough]

He probably doesnt play outlaw anymore

[lapis forge]

Really want to learn outlaw, so I've been looking at a lot of guides and stuff trying to get a good grip on it

something about outlaw scratches an itch I didn't know I had

[civic meadow]

Read thru here ask questions

ur way better off in here

[lapis forge]

been doing that as well

[vivid vessel]

#outlaw-faq

honestly

[civic meadow]

^

[vivid vessel]

im watching that video rn

its not good

2 mopnths old

we had trickster already no ?

how old is trickster

day 1 for s2 rightr

[civic meadow]

I think right around there tbh

Maybe like a week or two before the vid?

[lapis forge]

I think every time I go to the restroom, I read the FAQ again, it's solid reading material

[trail star]

At least there is a guide

[keen belfry]

priority lists are hard for general population

i often dont like how they are written

[vivid vessel]

ye

idk

i didnt really like the ww one from peak of serenity

i really liked the fire mage thing

tho

[keen belfry]

they lead to a lot of not obvious things that are important

[civic meadow]

Ngl the arcane one takes a hot minute

[keen belfry]

arcane mage one has a lot of weird kinad unexplained stuff

[civic meadow]

yeah you have to like

Really read the advanced shit to actually know

Why youre doing what

[keen belfry]

like i think it would be better written more simply but idk if thats possible

[civic meadow]

Its way easier than it used to be

Yeah

[keen belfry]

like i think there should be sentences like basically: if u dont have NP and u have missles press missles

[vivid vessel]

he actually talk of trickstrer

just not for the rotation

[civic meadow]

the way its written is a lil weird, makes it feel more complex than it is

[vivid vessel]

i will give him the benefit of the doubt cause his guide was released on march 3

and my first outlaw key was on march 5

[polar kelp]

Anyone else hate that all our builds are like 1-3% difference in keys....and it's annoying cause they keep flopping back n forth with indecision lol

[vivid vessel]

so i guess

[gaunt phoenix]

i love choices !

[vivid vessel]

its just too old

[vivid vessel]

ye..

i agree

[royal hollow]

play everything and see what you like

[vivid vessel]

kir should be 15% ahead

[gaunt phoenix]

march 3rd

the great HO discovery was march 16th

[vivid vessel]

i think 11.1 released on march 5

[glass mortar]

zac

[vivid vessel]

hm

[glass mortar]

why does it say goon next to ur name

[proven tiger]

His guides are good for beginners

[vivid vessel]

im r1 gooner

[gaunt phoenix]

why not

[glass mortar]

[vivid vessel]

so i won the title

[polar kelp]

I've narrowed it down between kir 1fth, and HO (CTO+GS)

[vivid vessel]

if you say so

[polar kelp]

But still back n forth

[vivid vessel]

i cannot trust guides like that

[proven tiger]

I watched his guides back in BFA and it was good

[vivid vessel]

cause how tf does one guy

knows

everything

[proven tiger]

then I found wowhead and discord

[vivid vessel]

about every spec

also its just a copy of wowhead/discord so

[glass mortar]

specs in this game arent hard bozo u just only ever play 1 of them

[proven tiger]

Nah he does guides for few specs

[tribal olive]

Yall cook to much, even wowhead is behind

[vivid vessel]

well wowhead is also a copy of discord

in the end

whatver

[glass mortar]

if u pvped frfr ud know a little bit of what everone did

[royal hollow]

it was good because you didnt know, so its bad

[runic bough]

nobody is going to know how to do a trickster guide unless you are from this discord

[polar kelp]

^^ agree

[proven tiger]

It does good job laying the stepping stones

[vivid vessel]

@gaunt phoenix I wish we had access to Chinese people

[polar kelp]

There's like 5 variations of trickster builds and you could go into a rabbit hole of KS usage lol

[vivid vessel]

I still remember that log linked from that monk person

With the Chinese

[royal hollow]

isnt bac the chinese guy

[proven tiger]

True. Smh I found a chinese sub rogue back in s1 doing guides

[vivid vessel]

Playing around gm bug

[gaunt phoenix]

we need our great mediator Bac

[vivid vessel]

Before we knew it

[proven tiger]

and it was the first time I saw a good guide

[vivid vessel]

They probably know stuffs we don't

[proven tiger]

and it was tts

[gaunt phoenix]

wtf

[vivid vessel]

Ye

You don't remember?

[gaunt phoenix]

nah

[vivid vessel]

You know the monk person

That came in

And I was mean to her

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah

[vivid vessel]

(no regrets)

She linked a Chinese log

And the guy seemed to be playing around gm

When I told her no one knew about the bug so it was a decent DPS loss for us

[gaunt phoenix]

i see

[vivid vessel]

She just linked that

I told her Chinese were different cuase well

Idk

They don't know the same things we do

It's weird how there is this barrier

Between both world

[proven tiger]

Get JPC's contact to the chinese rogue

[glass mortar]

they dont have any rng in their game client so they always have GM up. that probably made it easier to tell

this is a JOKE btw

[vivid vessel]

Fr

[royal hollow]

they dont trust sims, so they just test everything and look at numbers

[vivid vessel]

Ye I heard that

[glass mortar]

well they do their own sims also

whenever i play warlock

i get warlock apls from a guy

[civic void]

They trust top players for literally anything, kinda based

[rose granite]

zac u think molten knucles will outperform shadow quake when turbo kicks in since we cant turbo shadow quake? for weapon swap pick?

[glass mortar]

who gets them from his chinese client friends

i dont go to warlock discord

[vivid vessel]

What if you play both

[rose granite]

challenge accepted lol

[hollow temple]

discord is blocked there i think

[glass mortar]

well ur gunna have molten knuckle in ur MH

assuming u get a mythic one

but i think they meant a herioc upgraded one zac?

so it would be was

671

[rose granite]

idk i was thinking of waiting on one of my idnars for the mythic one

wont be too long after turbo hits

[glass mortar]

if u have a mythic one they wouldnt be one or the other cause ud just have molten knuckle in ur mh

and be swapping ur oh

[rose granite]

what and then have another macro to swap my mainhand to gally weap?

[vivid vessel]

Can't

Gally is locked

[rose granite]

mmm

[vivid vessel]

Unless mugzee weapon loses in AOE against a stat weapon ( I haven't simmed)

I will be using it main hand and swap my off hand

[polar kelp]

So 2 qu stions I guess....is 681 stat offhand better then 658 cudgel is the question. And also is 665 knuckles better then 681 crafted

[runic bough]

omg i shoulda tried this before going sin

[glass mortar]

i dont think ud want gally weapon on even? gally weapons pretty meh from my understanding

[runic bough]

I just got molten knuckle before going sin

[glass mortar]

if gally weapon is worth having on at all in aoe then ud probably just lock it and molten knuckle in?

[runic bough]

gally proc is like 1 time per hour

its terrible nerfed to oblivion

[vivid vessel]

Only st

[glass mortar]

ok well

[vivid vessel]

I have it , I'm not playing it in m+

[polar kelp]

Well sure it's not great in aoe but it's st for bosses. In raid it's obvious and in keys if they are high it's still huge

[glass mortar]

then ur probably not wearing it at all

since it cant be swapped

[glass mortar]

what does this even mean

why do u use this term

i dont believe they nerfed gallywix weapon procs a single time

[runic bough]

molten knuckle proc is more dmg than gally proc by a thousand times

[glass mortar]

gally proc isnt budgeted

but yes its fairly weak

if u dont want it at all in aoe then ur option is like, just dont wear it at all since u cant swap it i guess

[runic bough]

1 dmg from a last boss weapon proc is a total troll move

[glass mortar]

get a cauldron fist probably

i mean its still stronger then a normal weapon

just not stronger then the rare drop

whats real funny is they continue to make last boss cantrips unswappable even tho this one is just mid and the strong effect weapons arent off the end boss

[runic bough]

yeah

[glass mortar]

it doesnt really make sense either, they made the cantrips unswappable in DF because they specifically did bonus damage on targets above 90% hp

and they didnt want people cheesing that

i guess for gally weapon u could just wear it to stack the dot up 25 times then swap it off? it lasts forever right

[runic bough]

im curious about molten knuckle and cudgel now

I already recrafted to sin tho

oh well

[glass mortar]

i mean the difference between regular weapons and molten knuckle is like 1%

unless outlaw felt 1% too weak to u

its not gunna change anything

[runic bough]

molten knuckle is more than cudgel

and cudgel is actually nice

[glass mortar]

cudgel is more then molten knuckle in aoe afaik

[runic bough]

not when i tested

[glass mortar]

but ur probably getting baited because ur not factoring in that molten knuckle has no secondaries on it

ur just looking at the flat damage on ur profile

like everyone always does

[runic bough]

cudgel would be the best if it proc like a normal weapon on hit, but since its once per combat its meh

[glass mortar]

its everytime you vanish on trash

which is why its so good

[runic bough]

yes vanish resets combat

[glass mortar]

im pretty sure its stronger then herioc knuckle anyway

and ud swap to knuckle for bosses

[gaunt phoenix]

Cudgel beats everything on packs

[glass mortar]

yea thats what i figured

[red zinc]

Didnt sim it vs 684 capo yet but

Probably still better barely

[runic bough]

in high keys id imagine knuckle to do more as it can proc on hit tho

[glass mortar]

why would high keys matter

u vanish just as often

[red zinc]

it does very slightly

[runic bough]

more hp mobs

[red zinc]

But not enough

[glass mortar]

them having more hp just means u can vanish more times on them tho

[red zinc]

Ryu is right for all the wrong reasons

[runic bough]

yeah im sure rng wont fuck you up from vanishing

[glass mortar]

what

[gaunt phoenix]

Doesnt matter if its a 30 second pack or 30 minute pack

Cudgel wins

[glass mortar]

^

[runic bough]

hmmm

[red zinc]

Lower keys make you pull packs faster and thus get the initial hits from cudgel more dps wise

Which leads it to have a higher share

[runic bough]

then we just need them to make it proc on hit not on combat

[glass mortar]

so just everytime the weapon does damage

[red zinc]

you realise this weapon would be useless with normal rppm

[glass mortar]

true

[red zinc]

Literal piss tier

[glass mortar]

its only good because we vanish cheese it

if it was just an rppm proc like knuckles itd be worthless

its 658 ilvl

[brisk meadow]

Like everything

Outlaw only does dmg through cheesin

[runic bough]

yeah shit like every weapon proc true

[red zinc]

praying oxi sees this channel when he makes another stupid genocide joke so we get a break from this

[runic bough]

welp, back to sin. Its nice that I dont have to deal with ks, rng, bugs and rule restrictions and have uncapped aoe.

[brisk meadow]

Damn i dont know the lore

[remote pike]

can i just ask again, not sure somebody answered me - are we able to switch weapons during m+?`??

[vivid vessel]

yes

[glass mortar]

yes as long as its not gally weapon

[trail steppe]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[remote pike]

alright thank you,

[royal hollow]

yes, unless its gallywix weapon

[red zinc]

Wait they forgot about capo?

Or is that just mh angle

[glass mortar]

im pretty sure the only cantrips theyve ever made unswappable were end boss ones

werent the df ones the fyrakk cantrips

[red zinc]

Ye

[remote pike]

and if its like this?

[royal hollow]

when was the last time we weapon swap in keys a lot? sometime in df?

[vivid vessel]

!!!!!

[glass mortar]

in DF people were doing it to cheese fyrakk weapons

[red zinc]

S2 df with underrot weaps

[royal hollow]

this is fine

[civic void]

Pretty sure forgestorm wasn't swappable no ?

[vivid vessel]

every season of df till

s3

i think

[red zinc]

In s4 only

[vivid vessel]

and sl and shit

[red zinc]

S2 it was

[vivid vessel]

ye

[glass mortar]

did they make it unswappable eventually

it was at first

i never had a forgestorm so

[royal hollow]

was underrot s1 or s2

[red zinc]

2

[glass mortar]

just a crappy blue one in s1

[civic void]

Ah maybe I actually remember being surprised in s4

[vivid vessel]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bbZ3b5ouZG2wuA58bhkb1x

capo neutral at 8 target

seems like im not weapon swapping caop

[glass mortar]

mhm

[red zinc]

No capo offhand?

for boss

[vivid vessel]

wait

[royal hollow]

8+ capo wins then?

[vivid vessel]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/82GLVaFeu7aSCjzAYUR89z

what

oh ye

cause its patchwerk

and that weapon need ramp time

nvm

[red zinc]

[vivid vessel]

its shit still

[glass mortar]

ok gally weapon makes sense

[red zinc]

Dungeon route simming supremacy

[glass mortar]

if it could be weaponswapped ud just wear it till it hit 25 stacks on a boss

then swap it for better stats

or a good cantrip

[vivid vessel]

wdym then swap it off

idk how it works

[glass mortar]

wdym wdim

read it

[red zinc]

debuff has a duration

No?

[vivid vessel]

but

ah it stops working ?

[royal hollow]

i thought you have to keep reapplying it

[vivid vessel]

after a while

[vivid vessel]

thats silly no ?

[glass mortar]

doesnt read like that

to me

[red zinc]

trueing

[vivid vessel]

or idk

[red zinc]

u right

[vivid vessel]

you like stack a damage debuff

[glass mortar]

pretty sure stacks just tick till it dies

[royal hollow]

big

[vivid vessel]

that does damage till boss dies

right

ye

let me check my gallywaxer

[red zinc]

They should not cap effects like that

No fun

[vivid vessel]

5min30

[royal hollow]

hmm but the fight still need to last very long for it to be worth though,

[vivid vessel]

to hit max stacks

is crazy

💀

[glass mortar]

sheeesh

[vivid vessel]

no wonder its trash in m+

[glass mortar]

yea thats pretty bad

[vivid vessel]

bro

[glass mortar]

pretty boring cantrip

[red zinc]

Just pull the whole dungeon and take 30min to kill it all

Insane value

[vivid vessel]

its per target tho

[red zinc]

the proc flurries though surely

[vivid vessel]

no lol

[red zinc]

Like application

not damage

[vivid vessel]

ah yes

it does

[royal hollow]

even if the fight last 6min, you full stack and swap for the last 30sec, prpb still bad coz u do no dmg early on

[vivid vessel]

it does not

[red zinc]

I was memeing though

[vivid vessel]

maybe it does

whatever tho

its useless

[red zinc]

Gavel but for rogues next tier

[glass mortar]

man if we dont get a legendary next tier

itll be a full expac no legendary

surely they gotta have one planned right

[red zinc]

Its literally void shit

[royal hollow]

not gavel please

[red zinc]

Priest getting a leggo for sure

If they even do one

[vivid vessel]

bro

[glass mortar]

ok so the next content is probably ethereals

[vivid vessel]

why do you guys

want legendary

its so bad

[glass mortar]

so it could be

[red zinc]

I dont

[glass mortar]

literally any weapon

who says i want one for us

[haughty wigeon]

cause cool

[glass mortar]

im just speculating, seems likely we get one no?

[vivid vessel]

bro

wtf

[haughty wigeon]

legendaries are cool and core to the rpg aspect of the game

[red zinc]

Im praying for another pala legendary so they get gutted to compensate again

[glass mortar]

they gunna make a rogue legendary and its gunna have mastery haste

[red zinc]

[glass mortar]

just u wait

[haughty wigeon]

fyralthe and evoker legos were cool

[remote pike]

yo dudes, what type of KiR builds you running in keys? I'm thinking about +15s and higher

[red zinc]

The items yes

the acquisition no

[haughty wigeon]

just had issues with its rng aqcusition

[quasi verge]

lol was just thinking this

[haughty wigeon]

ya that

[remote pike]

been rocking HO build for a while, but i hear its worse now than kir

[haughty wigeon]

but before fyraleth and evoker lego

there was syl bow and arguebly syl dagger

[red zinc]

It isnt worse

Its personal preference

just play what you’re good at

one is better st , other is better aoe

[haughty wigeon]

also had a rng acqusition but much more tolerable cause if you got it. you just got it

[vivid vessel]

ffffffffthe fact i have to reenchant everything

cause im swapping weapon

is crazy

how do i only have 18 % haste

fuck man

[red zinc]

Zac when are we getting a tax evasion mechanic on outlaw

Need it

[haughty wigeon]

before that there was legendary questlines which were liked by the majority of all players. just didnt have the unique spec aspect. instead opting to role

[glass mortar]

rogue legendary daggers best leggo they ever did

[vivid vessel]

?

[glass mortar]

but yea now a day legendary items r just gold dumps

[vivid vessel]

sylv dagger was horrendouys

litteralyt 15% more dps

[glass mortar]

id be happy not having one

[vivid vessel]

that you didnt have

[red zinc]

talent node “tax evasion: your ar now gives gcd reduction no matter your haste”

[vivid vessel]

the whole tier

[red zinc]

[haughty wigeon]

then cata/wotlk was probably peak legendary acqusition

[haughty wigeon]

yes

[vivid vessel]

people that think legendary are good

are cooked

[haughty wigeon]

but if you loot it

you looted it

[vivid vessel]

but what if you dont

[haughty wigeon]

no

cringe questline

[vivid vessel]

you just od 15% less damage

???

[haughty wigeon]

sucks to suck?

[vivid vessel]

the fuck i care about a questline

[haughty wigeon]

thats how legendaries are?

[vivid vessel]

im doing 15% less damatge

[haughty wigeon]

but your not seeing the point

[vivid vessel]

in a competitive environnment btw

[haughty wigeon]

not the damage

[vivid vessel]

htis isnt classic

[haughty wigeon]

stop focusing on the damage

its the rpg aspect

[vivid vessel]

legendaries do more damage

[glass mortar]

zac isnt going to ever like legendaries

[vivid vessel]

the fuck i care

about the rng

[glass mortar]

they are a tax on ur damage budget usually

[vivid vessel]

its terrible

[bright crane]

Bro when’s the ol write up coming

[haughty wigeon]

rpg

[glass mortar]

and he doesnt care about rpg shit

[haughty wigeon]

thats dumb

[glass mortar]

he plays this game to login to dungeon simulator

[haughty wigeon]

why play a rpgmmo then

[vivid vessel]

wow aint a rpg

[haughty wigeon]

oh right

ketys

[vivid vessel]

noob

[glass mortar]

and grind the same 8 instances 50000 times a month

what do u expect from him

[haughty wigeon]

idk

[vivid vessel]

make a legendary

you get from open world

[glass mortar]

no respect for the rpg aspects

[vivid vessel]

that is also

shit

for people that have access to raid gear

[proven ocean]

guys

[vivid vessel]

thgouhts ?

[late hazel]

outlaw > assa right now ?

[vivid vessel]

legendary for casuals

[proven ocean]

i want a legendary dagger for sin and sub and wont work for outlaw

i wanna see

how

outlaw becomes behind

[haughty wigeon]

i guess everyone else suffers from lack of rpg elements cause key players whinying

[proven ocean]

by 10% dps

[vivid vessel]

you can enjoy your trash rng legendary that is 15% of your dps

[red zinc]

i miss the rpg aspects (unfriendly game design that causes suffering)

[proven ocean]

and spam it to zac's face

everyday

[vivid vessel]

while i can play the real game

[proven ocean]

forever

LOLOLOLOL

[haughty wigeon]

inb4

[proven ocean]

LOLO

OLO

[haughty wigeon]

we talk about belt

and ring

which is

purple legendary but aids

[red zinc]

Belt sucks

[haughty wigeon]

cause you still need to get them

so

[red zinc]

no reason to care for now

[haughty wigeon]

they still exist, just purple

[bright crane]

Actually tho?

[haughty wigeon]

itll be buffed

[glass mortar]

and not rng

[haughty wigeon]

until its used

[bright crane]

For us or just in general

[vivid vessel]

i get it in one questline

so

idc

[glass mortar]

just a grind

[vivid vessel]

i dont have to spend an entire tier

[haughty wigeon]

you gotta do delevs to upgrade it

[vivid vessel]

15% behind on dps

cause I DDIDNT

[red zinc]

Seen some stuff about it not being intended as a bis item

[vivid vessel]

RNG

A RAID LOOT

[red zinc]

[haughty wigeon]

its almost like

[vivid vessel]

OMEGALUL

[glass mortar]

zac does instanced combat 10000000X a day

[vivid vessel]

HOW CRINGE IS THAT

[glass mortar]

u think he cant grind for power

[haughty wigeon]

the best way to get legos

was

[glass mortar]

he just doesnt want the rng

[haughty wigeon]

doing one questline to get it

without rng bullshit

[vivid vessel]

go play a single player game

[haughty wigeon]

instead of praying for drop

and get

[vivid vessel]

wow isnt classic anymore

[haughty wigeon]

a questline to do from drop

zac honestly

fuck you

[vivid vessel]

[red zinc]

use your inside voices guys

[vivid vessel]

what did i do

[glass mortar]

it could really be anyone

[cold jewel]

zac honestly
fuck you

[glass mortar]

since its probably gunna be ethereal/void themed legendary

[bright crane]

Zac honestly

You fuck

[glass mortar]

i could see a staff

[vivid vessel]

for once i was nice and didnt insult you

[haughty wigeon]

[vivid vessel]

but you insulted me !

wtf

[glass mortar]

could also see a sword tho

[vivid vessel]

thats crazy

[red zinc]

We actually steal xalatath dagger and get the xalussy

Fuck priests

[glass mortar]

xal dagger but its agi this time

[cold jewel]

the only thing more sus than a "GOON" tagline is that the server is mf privated

[glass mortar]

culd u imagine

[cold jewel]

zac into some wild shit

[vivid vessel]

@haughty wigeon also i would get it 10 weeks before you probably you bozo

[red zinc]

Thats advance

[vivid vessel]

im fully geared since week 1

[haughty wigeon]

its crazy how you just focus on one aspect of the entire thesis i said and hold on to it

[red zinc]

Top 20 raiding guild discord

[haughty wigeon]

as if thats the only thing said

[red zinc]

[haughty wigeon]

its almost like

[proven ocean]

guys can u actually imagine that zac is the mo

st

[vivid vessel]

didnt read your entire thesis

[haughty wigeon]

we agree on the same shit

abotu rng being aids

[cold jewel]

absolutely sick

[vivid vessel]

too many words

[haughty wigeon]

on getting a powerful item

but having a rng drop AND A questline is SUPER cringe

but no

:)

[proven ocean]

guys can u actually imagine that zac is the most

[haughty wigeon]

lets focus on one small part of a bigger thing

[proven ocean]

chat wait what is zeross gonna type omgomg