This sim kinda cooked
#outlaw
still matrix
you are running double nightfall on aoe?
my recent keys that nightfall proc been doing way less
gaunt phoenix
i think its arguable
still matrix
but idk
red zinc
Itll end up being closer to 4-5% at which point it isnt worth to swap
still matrix
it's been doing like 1.2% overall for me ish
vapid blaze
actually less
fallen knot
ask solo
fallen knot
to cook up a sim or something
vapid blaze
had gem replacements aswell
now its 2.8%
and its not turbo high count
just 6 targets 1min
red zinc
such an absurd amount of factors in that sim i cant tell whars going on
red zinc
it got simmed vs 678 weapons already and it is a 4% difference at which point the gap is meaningless
fallen knot
in your group in dungeon
red zinc
Maybe its arguable for 675 but even then I dont see the point
Do it if you really want to I guess but next week its conclusively becoming worse so
red zinc
All low precision
daring oxide
@gaunt phoenix Sorry if this seems like a stupid question but lets say i was to try HO SC PC, and i drop ghostly, how much haste you thinking is acceptable to drop (im at 20% baseline now)
daring oxide
im just curious
red zinc
be nice zac or else
vapid blaze
does swapping both weapons take 2 gcds then?
polar kelp
ive never played with less than 20% haste all tier
Real answer is SIM, but when I sim that it usually puts me at 18.5% then haste dies off
daring oxide
because fearing losing so much ST might bite me in the ass
red zinc
all I’ll say
daring oxide
Real answer is SIM, but when I sim that it usually puts me at 18.5% then haste d...
as HO SC?
polar kelp
Ya
daring oxide
i know to sim but im a feelycrafter 😭
red zinc
Is it really worth to set up weapon swapping macros for a week just to do 0.5% more on aoe
polar kelp
Yes
gaunt phoenix
pls feelycraft rotation and not stats
red zinc
And for it to then be gone
daring oxide
sim tells me one thing i always disobey and just straight up play 20% haste all the time KIR/HO
latent belfry
Is it really worth to set up weapon swapping macros for a week just to do 0.5% m...
yas
vapid blaze
isnt the entire outlaw spec trying to find the last 0.5%?
daring oxide
Is it really worth to set up weapon swapping macros for a week just to do 0.5% m...
its 2% more buddy
latent belfry
Is it really worth to set up weapon swapping macros for a week just to do 0.5% m...
expect maybe on TOP cause packs arent that big the WHOLE time
red zinc
Yeah minmaxes that arent gone a week later
red zinc
its 2% more buddy
Hes trying to do double weapons that is not 2%
vapid blaze
well true the crafted weapons will be higher next week
daring oxide
wait
polar kelp
That's a loss for double
daring oxide
im confused nevermind ill see myself out the door
gaunt phoenix
main hand cudgel might be worth in wacky pulls
Why are you being annoying about the possiblity
not sure if you can double swap in a global
gentle sky
hey in cinderbrew do i only use wound poion on the 4 dudes befor last boss ? or do i use it for the Flavor Scientist to ?
gaunt phoenix
just on the last pack
red zinc
hey in cinderbrew do i only use wound poion on the 4 dudes befor last boss ? or ...
Can be good but you need improved wound poison
small value though if your group has good ST
slow vale
Is there a world where it would make sense to use this and do vers/crit crafted and get 20% haste naturally?
gentle sky
dos it not work on the Rejuvenating honey then ?
slow vale
red zinc
gotta get them below 48% hp for it to have any effect since they heal for 100% hp
(which is then reduced to 52%)
gaunt phoenix
there is a world but there are probably better combinations
red zinc
Maybe hard to answer but would 15-16% haste plus flask with more vers sim better than 20% haste natty with vers flask?
or just a sim angle
gaunt phoenix
if stat volume is the same then haste flask is slightly better because tempered potion will give vers
slow vale
im simming both now, i just got it and it seems like a strong piece due to the haste, but i cant make sense of it since its such a dramatic stat shift
red zinc
ive lowkey been using alchemical chaos in all my keys on my natty 20% haste setup
Never actually though about it being ass
rotund zodiac
I swap Cudgel with crafted weapon during vanish when targets are only 2 left, is it a good thing or nah?
gaunt phoenix
its fine
rotund zodiac
trying to min maxxing
red zinc
swap on killing spree, press buttons outside stealth until vanish, then swap in vanish
Insane 0.0001% minmax
rotund zodiac
Imma try this
zealous plinth
swap on killing spree, press buttons outside stealth until vanish, then swap in ...
Can’t we just macro equip the cudgel with vanish?
slow vale
thats such much shit to manage on top of what we already manage lol
runic bough
slow vale
im old and lazy, yall playing that young mans game, more power to ya
red zinc
Also solo the reason im annoyed at this stuff is cause I feel like some people do all this degen minmax stuff for 0.2% dps or whatever
runic bough
⚠️
gaunt phoenix
it uses a gcd so using it during killing spree would be better than vanish
red zinc
While their rotation is wrong in the first place
strong cargo
Can’t we just macro equip the cudgel with vanish?
Changing weapon is a gcd, if you hit vanish and gcd isn't ready then it won't change weapon, and you don't want to hit vanish again to change weapon 😄
gaunt phoenix
yeah i know weapon swapping is cringe
red zinc
As if this is going to fix it
just reminds me of er bug / coup bug shit
bad taste in my mouth
rotund zodiac
I miss double coup
red zinc
just grumpy yall should do whatever you feel like doing
zealous plinth
Changing weapon is a gcd, if you hit vanish and gcd isn't ready then it won't ch...
Ah I forgot that’s why swapping during KS ^^
gaunt phoenix
lol idk
white slate
what's the chance of 5 buffs from rtb
vivid vessel
ye looks fine to me
cinder relic
1%
rotund pulsar
what's the chance of 5 buffs from rtb
18%?
vivid vessel
same amount of hits
fallen knot
what's the chance of 5 buffs from rtb
50%
vivid vessel
18
vivid vessel
2
white slate
still cool
cinder relic
Oh okay sure
keen belfry
look at this
vivid vessel
nice
keen belfry
why this keep happen to me
glass silo
Does anyone have an accurate AR tracker weakaura? one that doesnt change to like "30m" in subterfuge windows
earnest urchin
Make shadowmeld usable by any race
gaunt phoenix
need to tick 'use blizzard cooldown reduction' in your WA text
err might be tick or untick
one of them
vivid vessel
tick
earnest urchin
Remove shadowmeld from the game but add a new talent for outlaw that gives them 3 charges of vanish xd
vivid vessel
dont think there is a difference between 3 vanish and 2
you wouldnt even gain uptime legit
haughty moat
would be nice for mechanics
hybrid crown
It would only give us more burst basically
We would still be stuck using that vanish for the DPS
vivid vessel
we would be able to hold a vanish like fatebound can i think
as trickster
but thats about it
which is nice tho thats for sure
hybrid crown
Would you let adr run out for that charge
dawn talon
instead of throwing more vanishes at us
hybrid crown
So you have it for mechs
dawn talon
you could move vanishes with a 2nd ar just as well?
next shuttle
Hey, do we have a list of things cloak and evasion work on for the season?
ornate kernel
Wich is ur favorite build (HO - KiR) and why? Personal question 🙂 and if u use any talent variant depending of taste or dung?
next shuttle
I think I like HO more because it feels I get less of "10 sinister strikes in a row generating a single combo point"
fallen knot
would you ever use myth priory+hero HoC? i still dont have pacemaker, i would have eye of kezan, but on reclear kills it might just be not worth it
on cauldron and rik as totemic**
asked this
in enha discord
got the answer
cba use eye double on use is a slog
they dont know i used to main outlaw and double on use is mandatory every season
icy hare
I think I like HO more because it feels I get less of "10 sinister strikes in a ...
That’s what deft is for 😄
swift cairn
Hey guys
U know if there is some ppl that have the knowledge to look at logs to tell me what i can do to improve dps ? or its too hard job as outlaw
verbal fjord
what are the odds that Kir going to be better than HO ?
i actually have struggles with fcking kir
my HO gameplay is clean but i feel like i need to play Kir cause every good player is playing this build rn
scenic loom
So the DFC neck from vault is really that bad for outlaw ?
compared to haste/versa neck crafted
tiny crystal
How do I check my AR uptime in keys and raid ?
runic bough
You know what grinds my gears
quasi notch
What is bis haste 19 or 20 %? kri
runic bough
Fate doing 1.8-2mil single target on boss and trickster doing 1.2-1.6mil.
pliant wind
I do 2.2-2.4M with trickster on ST at raid
polar kelp
Fate doing 1.8-2mil single target on boss and trickster doing 1.2-1.6mil.
Yea I'm at like 2.3-2.4 st aswell...whatcha mean lol
gaunt phoenix
What is bis haste 19 or 20 %? kri
19.05% technically
is enough to reach 25% after alacrity
long barn
my HO gameplay is clean but i feel like i need to play Kir cause every good play...
I thought some of the top rogues also used HO
gaunt phoenix
Because haste buffs are multiplicative and then additive (19.05 * 1.05 + 5) = 25
gaunt phoenix
How do I check my AR uptime in keys and raid ?
In logs/details
runic bough
I do 2.2-2.4M with trickster on ST at raid
That's when you have a good rotation
But if no adr and no procs
Your doing no damage
In trickster
polar kelp
Why do you have no adr in St?
bright crane
Isn’t ol reliant on adr and procs regardless of the hero talent?
vivid vessel
ye
polar kelp
It's pretty rare to drop ADR in raid, sometimes on mugzee
vivid vessel
its just ryuk yapping
bright crane
So then homie just said “water is wet”
gaunt phoenix
Trickster should have more AR uptime i guess, because coup and energy from KS
vivid vessel
tricvkster has slightly less last we checked
deep cedar
how good is this for outlaw since it has almost 6k haste?
gaunt phoenix
it's possible to have a good gear combination with it
if you can make up the vers elsewhere
runic bough
So adr dropping is same as fate and poor rotations then
next shuttle
Hey, I asked before but didn't get an answer. Do we have a list of stuff cloak or evasion works on for the season?
gaunt phoenix
No we dont
next shuttle
Thank you
polar kelp
@vivid vessel would you recommend kir for high keys or is it just preference? I'm working on my 15s currently and I can play both, but HO seems a bit more stable in most keys
gaunt phoenix
It's preference
I mean KIR 1 FTH should reward you with the most overall if you can play it
vivid vessel
kir is cool
bright crane
Gs is fine idk why people hate on it
polar kelp
It's just an energy sink is all
gaunt phoenix
suddenly we are really well balanced where the difficult build is rewarding but not like oppressively strong
bright crane
For me KIR 1FTH simmed only .5% better
next shuttle
Is GS better for HO in higher keys?
polar kelp
That's .5%!!
bright crane
But requires me to recraft/regem/re-enchant
runic bough
How many seconds ks on cd would you delay vanish for?
I'm starting to look at it more now
To pop it off cd and use before vanish
gaunt phoenix
Is GS better for HO in higher keys?
for cinderbrew maybe, depends on comp maybe
precise cuts is hard to give up now i think
next shuttle
Why for cinderbrew specifically, because of the big enemies in most packs?
gaunt phoenix
Yeah it's just where pc has least value
and the cleave on the bosses is kinda fake
rapid grail
The damage is competitive but its annoying to use
i mean if its dont annoy me is it realy good?
gaunt phoenix
Yeah its the same damage as the geargrinder
which is generally bis
same damage scaled to the lower cooldown i mean
hybrid crown
Is there any weirdness on floaty bosses like rik and gally?
rapid grail
same damage scaled to the lower cooldown i mean
even for m+?
rapid grail
2 on use trinket?
gaunt phoenix
ya
rapid grail
kk
gaunt phoenix
Is there any weirdness on floaty bosses like rik and gally?
dunno for buzzer
rapid grail
dunno for buzzer
sorry another question its good cuz i dont have any trinekts or if i get the pacemaker one it should be my bis?
gaunt phoenix
sorry another question its good cuz i dont have any trinekts or if i get the pa...
pacemaker should be similar, if you get i would use it just cause its not annoying like buzzer
but your damage wont really change
viscid forge
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
runic bough
glass mortar
in what
runic bough
Just a joke
Keys
I should make a parody for outlaw
Guys uhh we wiped, I need to wait til adr off cd
And they sit there wasting key timer
That's so funny
Like a YouTube short
Short video parody
void canopy
amazing
worldly shale
So is cludgel just the best offhand in the game?
Over capos knuckles?
glass mortar
in specifically dungeon aoe, probably yea
vivid vessel
@gaunt phoenix
i cannot invite people to this discord anymore
like with the new ui
idk how to generate an invite link
gaunt phoenix
vivid vessel
this doesnt work
gaunt phoenix
copy link doesnt work?
gaunt phoenix
gaunt phoenix
noob
vivid vessel
maybe cause im not grreen ?
vivid vessel
bro what
glass mortar
probably didnt read how to do it
hybrid crown
It's because of the KIR icon
gaunt phoenix
im on mobile tho
gaunt phoenix
this doesnt work
Idk where this is exactly
gaunt phoenix
Who are you inviting to rh
vivid vessel
idk just a guy asking for help
gaunt phoenix
we dont allow visitors
runic bough
glass mortar
it auto sent a invite DM to zac so it worked for me
past falcon
vivid vessel
you have the new ui or old
glass mortar
where is this ui
gaunt phoenix
but discord.gg/ravenholdt continues to work
vivid vessel
thats the old ui tho
glass mortar
vivid vessel
not talking to bozos with old ui
i think im a test subject for the new ui
that isnt working
nice
gaunt phoenix
its this on mobile
runic bough
There are some features disabled on mobile in discord
And the desktop version of discord is the full app
vivid vessel
im on pc
runic bough
Ok nvm
neat tapir
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
keen belfry
https://discord.gg/ravenholdt
ty for inv
gaunt phoenix
Np
swift cairn
where can i find the stat amount we need, between KIR and HO ?
keen belfry
can someone put in a good word for me in NA LFG
swift cairn
atm i'm playing KIR with 20% haste, i'd like to give HO a try
vivid vessel
im adding mace to simc
you know what we should haev tho
weapon swapping
everytime this comes up again
i want to sim with weapon swap
gaunt phoenix
they just flagged certain weapons
to not allow it
but only gallywix weapon is flagged for us
gaunt phoenix
atm i'm playing KIR with 20% haste, i'd like to give HO a try
you just probably want a bit less haste
its not a hard requirement like kir
have to ask raidbots
haughty wigeon
oh alrighty
gaunt phoenix
weapon swapping
there's some old functions that were made for weapon swapping at one point maybe i can get it working
west dirge
!ambush
ornate heathBOT
Since 10.2, ambush will now replace SS with an audacity proc, this means that you can bind SS and Ambush on the same bind.
Builds without HO still do not want to press ambush in stealth, to circumvent that you can use this macro:
/cast [known: Hidden Opportunity, bonusbar:1] Ambush ; Sinister Strike
Stance swap delay is, for now, not an issue since we don't want to cast vanish into ambush anymore.
compact narwhal
fatebound is super troll now for both builds?
glass mortar
fatebound kir is fine ST
HO is a bit behind st
fatebound is troll anytime BF damage matters
it is quite a bit behind in aoe
compact narwhal
fair ju st hate dying to KS lol
glass mortar
yup
desert tendon
frail veldt
i want to sim with weapon swap
Well you gotta sim the proc reset too right?
royal hollow
hotfix inc in 3 2....1
frail veldt
I'm sure they will
This is definitely unintended behavior
Id be surprised if it lasts
frank finch
what now?
compact narwhal
is it as bad as feral tho 😦
raven condor
isn't firedup usually a fire mage?
is this flaming considered role-playing??
lyric dune
How is Tommelvis doing UH DK damage in the overall??
vivid vessel
he built diff
velvet dagger
anyone who doesn't see loot this week, im sorry
lyric dune
I can't wait for the one-button-rotation for outlaw
my brain can't track all that sheet while avoiding enviorments
proven ocean
How is Tommelvis doing UH DK damage in the overall??
Udk does 7-8m in priory
lyric dune
because of zac and wowtoxic we're not gonna get buffed and reworked into an easier spec
raven condor
Buff sin rogue plz its bad
Found whispyrs alt account
tulip jewel
rofl
raven condor
How good hey
hahaha
Of all the discords i stg this one has the best spread of emotes
sullen surge
!prekey
ornate heathBOT
Pre-key fuckery
RTB as you enter the dungeon to get 2 Supercharger stacks.- DO NOT RTB again inside the bubble as you will lose the supercharger stacks, similarly do not
AR early inside the bubble or you will lose the combo points. - After the bubble drops use RTB again (now at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
- Before entering the first pack
BF into 
Stealth. - Open on pack with AR into
BtE.
tender breach
is there a valid tricks macro on focus player?
hasty warren
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
Guy's - Afenar's Edit 
Luxthos Edit
Zac's Group 
Devlin
Utilities:
Combo Point Standalone
Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer- Ace refund sound trigger
- RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
Unseen Blade tracker
Fun:
Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
KS Ticking damage taken
hasty warren
where swap weapon wa
red zinc
is there a valid tricks macro on focus player?
there is, would recomend using the smart tricks wa though
unless you have a specific reason
bright crane
My fav thing about perma tricks
Is when I’m the last one alive
And it sends the entire pack to the tank at the start of the dungeon
vivid vessel
no
leaden folio
zac goat
still matrix
why ar eyou in like all french group
listening to french rap
confirmed Zac french
primal otter
And it sends the entire pack to the tank at the start of the dungeon
It’s prob my favorite thing about rogue right now
midnight granite
And it sends the entire pack to the tank at the start of the dungeon
Truuuuu
glass mortar
dude that is
unironically rogue utility
ive had at least 3 keys this season that would have been bricked on a wipe if not for perma tricks
they werent serious keys but the tank was seriously surprised to discover the pack had not reset, was running all the way back to him, he already had full threat and the pack was close to dead because the rogue had just been soloing it for 20s while the group ran back
primal otter
they werent serious keys but the tank was seriously surprised to discover the pa...
LOL
I love it
I want this to stay forever
glass mortar
happened in a cinderbew twice, and once in a priory
primal otter
The pack of mobs is going to murk your tank in their sleep
glass mortar
cinderbrew is good for it because mobs wont run thru other stuff really to run back to entrance, and theres a lot of packs where u will just have melee guys left alive as the highest hp mobs so if everyone dies u can live forever
bright crane
Dude so that happened to us right before the bee boss
And the pack went through the be boss
glass mortar
i actually timed my only 12 cinderbrew for my resilient keys due to perma tricks
glass mortar
Dude so that happened to us right before the bee boss
LOL
bright crane
And somehow pulled him through entire dungeon
neat tapir
Is there a bug with the talent or you have to do something? i tried it in one key and it was normal trick duration
glass mortar
the best part was the healer was annoyed with the tank for pulling too much, the tank was typing back
and i was just like
"guys what about come back and finish the pull, its 70% dead"
and im still dpsing it
glass mortar
Is there a bug with the talent or you have to do something? i tried it in one ke...
just a visual bug, as soon as u proc the tricks its 60m
still matrix
gonna go test double event weps..
warm remnant
i dont understand the hype around the event weapon really
glass mortar
because the weapon is worth a tiny amount and there is zero chance it outweights 20 ilvls on ur mh
warm remnant
like the damage is crazy sure but when i simmed like the capo legit outsimmed it
glass mortar
the effect is probably barely winning in ur offhand if we are being honest
warm remnant
ah nvm yeah i just readd the proc isnt in simc xd
dense bolt
https://imgur.com/538kQ8M what to pick
glass mortar
i have no clue if hes responding to you
but the proc is literally like 3% dps in aoe
20 ilvl on a mh is definitly worth more then 3% dps
mh ilvl is insanely important
gaunt phoenix
20 ilvl on a mh is definitly worth more then 3% dps
its about 3%
still matrix
glass mortar
that sounds fake, 20 ilvl on offhand was 3.3% for me in sims
still matrix
glass mortar
actually there was an enchant involved so it would be closer to 1.5%
gaunt phoenix
20 ilvl in offhand should be that much
warm remnant
is there any way to check how good it would be in st
warm remnant
or like the other event weapon with just autoattack damage
glass mortar
how strong it is will depend on ur rng (mostly cdr) since u need to vanish to reset it
mh ilvl is always valuable
seems like it would be pretty troll
ive had packs it was 10% of my dps after the pull and packs it was 1%
gaunt phoenix
i wouldnt do it but i think its fine
glass mortar
10% being mass aoe with a 5 buff where i vanished 3 times in a row before the civilians died
vivid vessel
10% ?
glass mortar
ye
vivid vessel
how do you ever get that shit to 10%
glass silo
Out of sunterfuge and u have coupl and spree up, is spree priority or coup?
glass mortar
cheese
it was the pull u probably no longer do in ur keys in rookery
50 civilians onto the big rock guy
glass mortar
i 1 cp kspreed for aoe fazed just so i could vanish faster
vanished 3 times in like 15s
subtle field
can you shroud + distract the first miniboss in top?
vivid vessel
i dont think ks apply to everything
vivid vessel
i think it apply to whats being hit by bf
so one cp ks
is just 8 target
or i guess it might be 2 hits
glass mortar
8 nearest targets every attack
glass mortar
ya
i just wanted to
vanish for maximum civillian pad from weapon
and it was glorious
glass silo
In m+ what is the suggested build? Do u run kir in dungeons w big pulls, and ho in smaller?
vivid vessel
proven ocean
wrongy wrongy
vivid vessel
proven ocean
naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
vivid vessel
idk
vivid vessel
ye idk
proven ocean
?????????
proven ocean
well i didnt know u dont know that
wtf
wait
let me explain both then
u see how these mobs are abit far?
just pretend its enough range for them to not see me out of stealth
thats the range u need to stealth him
u cant be in melee range
if ur in melee range u cant stealth
u have to be out of line of sight of the mob
does it make sense?
proven ocean
and
ye
and
extractors
they always target tanks apparently
so
u can cheese that
thats why u have bad rng sometimes
cuz tank movement is a monkey
vivid vessel
for the aoes you mean ?
vivid vessel
that sounds fake
proven ocean
all i can say
is that
actually
i cant speak of our last tank
all i will say
we depleted ml 18
5 times
lapis forge
any got a good video guide for when to press what buttons?
lapis forge
seems sus, prob porn
swift cairn
whats the best sim setting for m+ ? 5 targets 5 mins ?
proven ocean
whats the best sim setting for m+ ? 5 targets 5 mins ?
10 targets and dslice and st
best 3
sim all, get knowledge from all of those 3
because in m+ ur often at 10 targets
and dslice doesnt do that
but
outlaw is the only spec in the game where dslice is good to actually sim for keys
so just sim both
swift cairn
okey gr8 thx i'll check that
proven ocean
np rogue guy
swift cairn
vivid vessel
cuz tank movement is a monkey
i dont understand what you mean tho
its clearly not only on tank
proven ocean
its clearly not only on tank
?
vivid vessel
is it ?
runic bough
Guys
Did you know the secret to keys this season
Is simply to stack
And pugs don't so swirlies are everywhere
Ahhhhhhhhhh
vivid vessel
ty ryuk
runic bough
runic bough
Watching you guys stack in high keys is so satisfying
vivid vessel
ye im doing that
its also very satysfying for me
im ngl
outlaw feels insane in keys
i love it
this is by far my favorite iteration
jsut wish ks wasnt a thing
delicate seal
if it was like .8s cast and you stay in 1 place that'd be way better
glass silo
I keep seeing that there's a haste breakpoint you need to reach, and I'm wondering what is the hatse breakpoint for. Is it the 0.8 global or something?
delicate seal
or just didnt' lose control of your char
red zinc
Had some mm hunter (yes hunter) say that I was only doing damage because it was a pisslow key today
delicate seal
I keep seeing that there's a haste breakpoint you need to reach, and I'm wonderi...
yes
delicate seal
(He was 2m behind)
2m gap is cuz its a lowwww keyeyyyyyy
vivid vessel
idk timmy
red zinc
I mean getting gapped like that on a 13
gaunt phoenix
the required haste is for 0.8s gcd but the HO build continues to like haste just for energy
delicate seal
tell him 1 button is around the corner
latent oak
ks shouldnt scale with haste and should always be the ultra fast in lust version
red zinc
nah itll still kill you
vivid vessel
scale NEGATIVELY with cps
latent oak
it will kill u way less
vivid vessel
who thgouht of that one ?
latent oak
if it finishes in 0.8s
red zinc
just remove the tp tag
peak dock
scale NEGATIVELY with cps
XD
red zinc
aint that deep
red zinc
fuck it we ball
vivid vessel
for spending more cps
runic bough
Its hurts a lot make it stop zac
latent oak
if it only lasted 0.8s u could play around it way easier aswell
vivid vessel
it could have been a fixed duration tho wdym
vivid vessel
its jsut cooked
delicate seal
im just saying spenders tend to scale dmg and duration
red zinc
I do agree that it should have at least some kind of increased benefit for higher cps
At least higher scaling damage if they really want to stick with this
vivid vessel
ye just more hits lol?
red zinc
linear damage kinda crazy
runic bough
Well isn't the duration of eye beamz always the same, it just does more damage.
red zinc
what
latent oak
eye beam not really comparable to ks
runic bough
The dmg increases but duration always the same.
latent oak
did they change how eye beam works
red zinc
Increases of what?
latent oak
isnt it just a channel
peak dock
Is there anyway to sim cudgel???
red zinc
You dont have combo points on dh
Like
he gotta be playing a character sometimes
Prime ragebaiter
runic bough
I played dh til 668 ilvl so
latent oak
so explain what u mean
runic bough
I did you guys don't get it
red zinc
runic bough
Yes ks is cp reliant, but also suffers from negative effect of longer duration and dmg is really poor for the not being able to cancel it. It has zero nodes to increase its damage, just lower its cd.
Eye beams is always the same duration, only the damage increases with modifiers and comes off cd faster. Eye beam is a main dmg ability because it does good dmg. Eye beam is also cancellable. Frontal effect with loss of movement but you can cancel it to move. Has multiple nodes to increase its damage as well.
digital linden
Do we pop vanish on fatebound builds even if ruthless precision will drop before the end of vanish? and if we dont have ruthless precision but we have to pop vanish for whatever reason (keeping adr or capping vanish) do we use bte in subterfuge or is it still dispatch prio?
jovial peak
guys, im sorry, im a little bit confused by the FAQ. If you use HO + Supercharger + Tier Set, do you use roll the bones with how many buffs up?
civic void
Yes ks is cp reliant, but also suffers from negative effect of longer duration a...
One could even claim that both abilities are very different !
fossil lintel
guys, im sorry, im a little bit confused by the FAQ. If you use HO + Supercharge...
Until you get a 5 roll
daring oxide
guys, im sorry, im a little bit confused by the FAQ. If you use HO + Supercharge...
keep spamming until 5 natty
jovial peak
wait, i think um dumb
if i use roll the bones, it clears the buffs i have
those i get from count the odds
runic bough
Bte is your prio in stealth windows.
digital linden
why are they prio in subterfuge if they arent prio outside of subterfuge if the conditions arent met
jovial peak
as long as i don't get a natty 5, i roll even if it means loosing 3~5 unnaty?
runic bough
Because of ace procs
bright crane
as long as i don't get a natty 5, i roll even if it means loosing 3~5 unnaty?
If you have 5 buffs no matter how you got them, you don’t reroll
digital linden
Because of ace procs
are ace procs stronger inside of subterfuge compared to outside?
fossil lintel
But 5 roll from CTO is both rare and only lasts a few seconds, so just roll when the first one falls
vivid vessel
runic bough
Anyone else do this when they play kir?
3 buffs is common roll, so I played with using kir on 3 buffs with rtb ready. After kir I'll use rtb and it usually almost always gives me one or more missing buffs.
vivid vessel
runic bough
are ace procs stronger inside of subterfuge compared to outside?
Yes because you can press bte more. You can only use bte once outside stealth windows. That is the bread and butter of outlaw right now.
vivid vessel
its for m+
brave lagoon
not even close
daring oxide
can u swap during combat btw?
vivid vessel
ye
daring oxide
yeah im dumb and crazy
digital linden
Yes because you can press bte more. You can only use bte once outside stealth wi...
okay yes but doesnt each individual bte have the same value inside and outside of stealth so isnt the value of dps per gcd the same?
vivid vessel
its litteraly free
jovial peak
If you have 5 buffs no matter how you got them, you don’t reroll
but where do i draw the line? 3,4,5? when it is safe to roll
runic bough
okay yes but doesnt each individual bte have the same value inside and outside o...
Bte does more dmg than dispatch and is your top damage skill so you want to try to do as many possible.
digital linden
not in fatebound
fossil lintel
Do warriors still need to swap to a shield to spell reflect?
warm remnant
na
runic bough
I heard they dont?
digital linden
Bte does more dmg than dispatch and is your top damage skill so you want to try ...
im asking for fatebound since if you dont have the ruthless precision and you already have the crit buff then its better to dispatch
glass mortar
can u swap during combat btw?
u dont wanna if u can avoid it tho
light kernel
whats the macro for swap weap
digital linden
outside of subterfuge specifically
hybrid crown
no BTE is even more of your damage as fatebound
hollow temple
im asking for fatebound since if you dont have the ruthless precision and you al...
You BtE during Crackshot
hybrid crown
compared to your other spells
fossil lintel
I wonder why they haven't locked your weapons in m+ then, what other class need weapon swaps?
glass mortar
@gaunt phoenix i found out why my weapon sims were so much larger then urs btw
ornate kernel
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
- Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
- Zac's Group Devlin
Utilities: - Combo Point Standalone
- Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
- Ace refund sound trigger
- RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
- Unseen Blade tracker
Fun: - Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
- KS Ticking damage taken
glass mortar
i dont think haste proc enchant is good for outlaw
digital linden
no BTE is even more of your damage as fatebound
on the faq it literally says to dispatch if you dont have ruthless precision
gaunt phoenix
nice
hollow temple
im asking for fatebound since if you dont have the ruthless precision and you al...
Ye
digital linden
You BtE during Crackshot
yeah but im asking why if anyone knows
hollow temple
Thought you meant during subt
gaunt phoenix
whats the question
digital linden
okay
Do we pop vanish on fatebound builds even if ruthless precision will drop before the end of vanish? and if we dont have ruthless precision but we have to pop vanish for whatever reason (keeping adr or capping vanish) do we use bte in subterfuge or is it still dispatch prio?
hollow temple
yeah but im asking why if anyone knows
Because it does more dmg during Crackshot
glass mortar
yeah but im asking why if anyone knows
have u read the talent crackshot
🤔
bte launches a 50% damage dispatch every cast
during subterfuge
thats why
digital linden
oh i forgot that it doesnt always do that
glass mortar
yea its just during crackshots
digital linden
so then is it still worth to pop bte before going into vanish then?
glass mortar
if u have RP buff as fatebound
digital linden
since its worse than dispatch
glass mortar
for trickster it doesnt matter
gaunt phoenix
should be fine to send vanish even if RP will expire
digital linden
yeah im asking for fatebound 😭
glass mortar
u BtE on cd outside crackshots but if u are deciding between vanishing, or getting BtE on cd to vanish, u just vanish
fatebound only wants to press BtE outside vanishes if u have RP, but this is like a tiny minmax
u c an just send on cd for a very marginal loss
digital linden
yeah im tryna minmax ykwim
but i forgot that bte does a 50% dispatch during subterfuge
i thought it did that all the time
gaunt phoenix
if you have ruthless precision
then fatebound tries to put bte on cooldown before vanish
if you dont have ruthless precision then you dont try to put bte on cd first, tho its not a particularly big deal
gaunt phoenix
what build are you playing?
ornate kernel
Im playing both
digital linden
if you have ruthless precision
then fatebound tries to put bte on cooldown befo...
so you could go into vanish if its about to cap even if bte isnt on cd
ornate kernel
Getting better xd
gaunt phoenix
the HO build prioritizes ambush
ornate kernel
Well trying it
runic bough
so you could go into vanish if its about to cap even if bte isnt on cd
Yes that is called setting up bte before you vanish. So u can instantly bte after vanish.
gaunt phoenix
the KIR build will use pistol shots in stealth if you meet the rule to use pistol shots, which is the same rule inside or outside of stealth
gaunt phoenix
so you could go into vanish if its about to cap even if bte isnt on cd
ya, or if supercharger becomes active
fossil lintel
I started PSing more with HO during stealth when I notice I'm energy starved
gaunt phoenix
if you dont have energy to ambush then you can ps
fossil lintel
I miss vigor
digital linden
Yes that is called setting up bte before you vanish. So u can instantly bte afte...
having bte be available and still going into vanish is called setting up bte?
runic bough
Set it up and boom 💥
gaunt phoenix
you read it wrong ryu
runic bough
Hope ace procs 9 times
glass mortar
there is no specific term for that
it just depends on the buffs and stuff going on when ur ready to vanish
runic bough
I swear I have read this somewhere to setup cps for bte
glass mortar
hes not asking about setting up CPs for bte
runic bough
Then vanish bang bang
runic bough
Yes
gaunt phoenix
let's just move on
runic bough
I'm so lost now
glass mortar
i dont even do that rule fwiw. its what, like 0.2% solo?
hybrid crown
put BTE on CD before vanish, vanish with full cp's for crack shot
glass mortar
that specific BtE optimization
i just cast BtE on cd because its a fun button to hit
hollow temple
I'm so lost now
runic bough
hybrid crown
ideally get an ace proc on that last bte then you can bte vanish
gaunt phoenix
it is perhaps most important when kir is off cd and you need cto
digital linden
i dont even do that rule fwiw. its what, like 0.2% solo?
but lowkey isnt that what's fire, collecting 0.2's like infinity stones
glass mortar
nah thats too far within crit variance and too cringe an optimization for me
fossil lintel
Remember when you would bte 0.1sec after subt ended on the opener and it fucked your next vanish? Good times
glass mortar
that being said i also almost never play fatebound so
as kir fatebound u have RP for like 80% of the fight anyway
gaunt phoenix
well ye
fossil lintel
Ops, I think I triggered ryu's ptsd
runic bough
You would pop bte to break stealth and adr still ticks down
fossil lintel
The restealth subt bug was fixed, haven't noticed it ticking down during subt after you open
glass mortar
dont think thats a thing anymore
fossil lintel
Wrong channel, this is outlaw
runic bough
On raid pull you lose all cp if you adr before boss takes damage.
Same if you pop adr before key start.
You have to adr when they allow us now.
glass mortar
i havent had that happen, more likely u broke stealth with a trinket on pull and didnt get subterfuge at all
those have always been how the game worked
pretty sure most peoples resources reset to some preset baseline on pulls and key starts
its just certain stuff thats allowed to go thru
runic bough
I have static buff trinkets not possible.
fossil lintel
Ah yes
glass mortar
well nothing u just mentioned has to do with adr ticking down during stealth
we thought u were saying that was still bugged
lone spear
unless by tick down
he means that 100ms delay
that causes it to tick down by 0.1sec
fossil lintel
You lose CPs when pulling a boss to prevent you having to use punching bags before every pull
runic bough
I donno sometimes I'm not in stealth anymore, granted sometimes it's a debuff.
vivid vessel
i didnt lol
gaunt phoenix
FaroverGuy
runic bough
Silo
Guys didn't see my kir hack
Do anyone else press kir at 3 buffs and rtb to get more buffs?
runic bough
Yeah
glass mortar
and u instant roll whenever u kir a 3/4 buff iirc
its only if u kir a natty 5 roll that u dont immediatly reroll
glass mortar
or not a natty, but a 5 buff
runic bough
3 buff is common roll
So I just started doing that when I played kir
Also about the trickster ho rotation
Last night it kind of clicked more, I could get into really nice trade offs with pistol shot and ambush filling cp's.
I didnt ever have to ss
It was nice
prisma sapphire
!wa
glass mortar
yea when kir gets into a good loop its great
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
- Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
- Zac's Group Devlin
Utilities: - Combo Point Standalone
- Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
- Ace refund sound trigger
- RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
- Unseen Blade tracker
Fun: - Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
- KS Ticking damage taken
raven condor
What's the kir loop
get good rolls>kir>bigdam
glass mortar
kir loop is less noticable
raven condor
glass mortar
because kir has more buffs
fossil lintel
A good kir is when you kir the same set of buffs twice
glass mortar
ur generally just always at 4-5 buffs
and if u arent ur suffering
but u need some real bad rng for that to happen
HO hits its lows more frequently but they are less bad
runic bough
Yes like me
raven condor
A good kir is when you kir the same set of buffs twice
This is the god roll of all god rolls
runic bough
When i tried kir tricks it was just painful
fossil lintel
It feels amazing
raven condor
"Again" - Winter Soldier, 2025
hard thicket
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
- Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
- Zac's Group Devlin
Utilities: - Combo Point Standalone
- Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
- Ace refund sound trigger
- RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
- Unseen Blade tracker
Fun: - Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
- KS Ticking damage taken
fossil lintel
I need to post my ace combo counter
runic bough
I'd imagine it's similar to kir fate but with ks and coup added. But somehow doesn't feel like that's all you added.
But I didn't get much sleep I kinda just yapping today
raven condor
But I didn't get much sleep I kinda just yapping today
you're in the right place for ol yapping
runic bough
When I play keys during the daytime here they mostly brick. When I play at night they are mostly timed. Players outside this timezone must be better.
I stayed up last night doing keys was fun
cinder relic
fossil lintel
If it's not 14 don't bother
i mean the WA itself
#outlaw message
Posted the video of it a while ago
I see zac made a fancy counter as well
fossil lintel
i know
craggy barn
zac u ready for aug meta
wintry solar
Ace exists since 2023?
Uhm actually it existed in bfa as an azerite trait ☝️🤓
Pretty sure it was an azerite trait.
royal hollow
man some pulls you get 75% RP uptime and some pulls you get 48%
deserved ho player
gaunt phoenix
wintry solar
You eat popcorn with a spoon
royal hollow
i eat it with chopsticks
cinder relic
White people be like;
tight kernel
Would it be a dps gain to be in a priory group for raid? not sure how to sim that
gaunt phoenix
it is possible to sim but the stats are extremely minimal
it's not changing your dps
peak dock
green dune
hi there, new to trickster and have a couple of rotation questions:
- the point of us holding vanish windows if we're close to a CdG is to apply the extra stacks of phased blade s othat we get the damage buff to all BtE in our crackshot window, yes?
- i'm a little confused on when to prioritise KS vs Vanish/BtE - have read through FAQs but to simplify, do we basically want to KS > Vanish unless either we're going to cap vanishes, or we're going to run out of AR?
latent oak
even if ur capped on vanishes, u wanna ks > vanish
u only vanish>ks when adr is gunna run out
green dune
ok, so vanish only takes prio to sustain ar
gotcha
have been getting that completely wrong 😄
latent oak
u'll get the hand of it no worriese
green dune
so even in opener we'd usually do our initial crackshot window, then KS, then CdG hopefully, then our two crackshot windows?
latent oak
u might be close to another ks after the first vanish window
green dune
gotcha
latent oak
if ks is 15-20s away, u hold vanish until after u ks
but again if adr is gunna drop just send the vanish
green dune
why do we hold in that case? because KS would come off CD during our crackshot window so we're missing KS uptime?
latent oak
ya
ks is does good damage and the 2 free unseen blades is very valuable
well valuable at least
green dune
true, so if we hold vanish bc KS is say 10s away, we do KS, we are now at like 3/4 CdG, do we further hold vanish to complete the CdG? no right bc it would be 20s?
(sry trying to wrap my head around haha..)
latent oak
if u could get to the cdg with the free blades from ks u'd prio that over vanish aswell i think
i think if vanish is a 2 charges u do aswell
but im not sure about the last one
harsh ocean
Is there a WA that tracks flawless form stacks?
green dune
yeah ok makes sense, so we'd send vanish if we have to wait significantly to get CdG but not if it's super close
im just tracking on unit frames currently
latent oak
if im at 1stack of escalating blade after the ks, i just send the vanish bc even with the 2 free procs im not getting a cdg, but if after the ks im at 2+ i know that i can deterministically get to the cdg with the free ones so i hold if that makes sense
supple siren
so for regular dps rotation. Ghostly strike on cd/ we don't killing spree or rtb within stealth windows(thats to spam bte only) killing spree outside every stealth rotation on cd, addrenaline rush on cd? im also just rtb based off my wa. is this the jist of playing a killingspree ho build?
latent oak
u do rtb in stealth windows
green dune
if im at 1stack of escalating blade after the ks, i just send the vanish bc even...
yeah that's super helpful thanks
past falcon
so for regular dps rotation. Ghostly strike on cd/ we don't killing spree or rtb...
u do hit rtb in stealth windows bc of supercharger talent
supple siren
im using muropaketti's rtb wa does anyone know if thats accurately telling me when to do it?
or is there some guide to when you should be rtb thats digestable?
latent oak
are u playing ho or kir