outlaw

[vivid vessel]

/spec assa

[proven ocean]

100k gold for the info

[red zinc]

nelf players have smaller plonkers

research proven

[unkempt smelt]

what's that new Cudgel thingy? In the pin messages when solo talks about macro to swap weapons, ig its only for raid cause we cant swap weapons during M+ right?

[hollow temple]

No

It’s only for m+

[red zinc]

[unkempt smelt]

you can weapon swap in M+ ?

[hollow temple]

Mhm

[paper sparrow]

I have 675 crafted offhand already, and 2 meh trinkets and wowhead guide says conductor's wax whistle but i've seen people running Remnant too. What do ya'll think, purely for M+

[dawn dome]

simming raidbots, for m+, should i use dungeon slice or any other setting?

[stoic dragon]

!macros

[dawn dome]

!macros

[stiff hawk]

Dungeon slice

[stoic dragon]

dont we have a macros command?

[stiff hawk]

For what

!ambush

[ornate heath]

Since 10.2, ambush will now replace SS with an audacity proc, this means that you can bind SS and Ambush on the same bind.
Builds without HO still do not want to press ambush in stealth, to circumvent that you can use this macro:
/cast [known: Hidden Opportunity, bonusbar:1] Ambush ; Sinister Strike
Stance swap delay is, for now, not an issue since we don't want to cast vanish into ambush anymore.

[dawn dome]

last i used raidbots was in bfa, and it had us using hectic add cleave or something

[stiff hawk]

Use dungeon slice rogue is optimized for it

[dawn dome]

beautiful, thank you 😄

[olive plank]

wait so you DONT want to open from stealth with ambush?

i was doing it all wrong yesterday gg

[runic bough]

***Okay guys I will be posting this throughout the day. Starting new event for Tuesdays possibly..
E
***Outlaw Tuesdays

I'm gonna host triple outlaw tonight around 830pm PST. I think I got an 11 from vault. (NA servers)*** Got a guild healer so far (reliable).

Lmk if interested
Need 2 outlaws.
1 carry allowed.

Time can change based on Outlaws availability

[olive plank]

this sounds like the perfect time for me to be carried while learning outlaw

[pure folio]

It depends on ur cp

and your build

[olive plank]

im nto running HO

hmm

[pure folio]

ah yea

[olive plank]

this is interesting

[pure folio]

u sinister strike

[gaunt phoenix]

then u dont use ambush at all

[olive plank]

i need to read my damn talents

no ambush at all

totally remove it from action bar?

and forget the spell exists?

[gaunt phoenix]

yes, or use the macro

so if you ever swap talents it will use ambush

[pure folio]

use the macro, it substitues sinister strike if needed

^^^

[olive plank]

fascinating

thank you for the heasd up

[latent oak]

is it lag

that randomly makes ks take twice as long

like each jump takes more time

[frank finch]

sc does

[latent oak]

na that doesnt increease the time of each jump

just adds more jumps

[raven condor]

Haste afaik

i know lust will make my ks pingpingping at light speed, safe to assume the opposite happens with -haste?

[glass mortar]

yes lag can be treated as negative haste

by kspree

my record is an 11s killing spree on the world boss in undermine

[compact narwhal]

is HO viable or am i trolling? :/

[gaunt phoenix]

HO is more than viable

[shut lichen]

it's more than viable

[compact narwhal]

pog asf

ty for quick answers 🙂

[jolly rune]

Can I use a whetstone on my mainhand and bubbling wax on offhand?

[gaunt phoenix]

you can

[jolly rune]

coo 🙂

[runic bough]

I havnt done the wax quest yet

Keep forgetting

[craggy barn]

solo, nightfall weapon still good next week after the ilvl bump?

[gaunt phoenix]

ya

[craggy barn]

ezclap

[compact narwhal]

how do you sim for outlaw? dungeon slice viable?

[tender wedge]

Yep

[compact narwhal]

tyty

[tender wedge]

Either dslice or your usual single target, anything else can get a bit wonky

Too many variables

[compact narwhal]

fs makes sense just have a few hero track delve trinks i wanna see how they'd do

[tender wedge]

I don’t think any are super good for outlaw, the turbo zapper is very good for ST though

The amorphous relic sims really well in dslice too since that sim allows for a lot of combat exit/entries

[compact narwhal]

sadge 😦

[tender wedge]

But in reality your mileage may vary

[compact narwhal]

just looted that lol

scroll no good?

[tender wedge]

I thought scroll didn’t drop at high ilvl this season

[compact narwhal]

we still dont like haste right? got lens hero too

[tender wedge]

It’s really good ST as well but not great in keys

[compact narwhal]

u right veteran max i think

[tender wedge]

You love haste until you don’t, so any proc/on use is kinda bad

[compact narwhal]

fair fair

[tender wedge]

Lens is kinda tragic for rogue

[compact narwhal]

whats the deal w/ remnant?

good now?

[tender wedge]

It’s ok. Outlaw really likes the raid damage event trinkets

[past falcon]

outlaw rogue vs 3300 fotm boomie (16 DFC)

[compact narwhal]

still crit>vers for HO too ya?

ik haste cap for kir last ssn

been a bit since i touched rogue

[tender wedge]

Haste to soft cap > vers > crit >>>>>>>>> everything else

Generally

[compact narwhal]

both builds?

[past falcon]

sim yourself but usually vers is prio once hastge is good enough

[compact narwhal]

kk

[tender wedge]

Yep, both builds, HO just needs less than KiR

[compact narwhal]

fair sweet ty for ya'lls help 🙂

[tender wedge]

Dumpstering fotm rerollers who don’t know how to play their new class, a timeless classic

[runic bough]

***Okay guys I will be posting this throughout the day. Starting new event for Tuesdays possibly..

Triple Outlaw Tuesdays

As it sounds I'm gonna host triple outlaw tonight around 830pm PST. I think I got an 11 from vault. (NA servers) Got a guild healer (reliable).

Lmk if interested
Need 2 outlaws.
1 carry allowed.

Time can change based on Outlaws availability

[tender wedge]

But they still get invited over you 🙄

[past falcon]

fr

[compact narwhal]

you're HO?

if so hm haste u run?

aand can you flask to get where u need to be or suboptimal?

[past falcon]

yeah i run HO trickster in keys, with an r2 haste flask

[compact narwhal]

what % feels good in ur opinion?

[past falcon]

uhh im usually around 17% i think

[tender wedge]

Usually around 15-16% is where it starts losing value in sims for me

[past falcon]

but i swap to KiR in raid sometimes so i keep it a little higher even if marginally sub-optimal

bc i cant be assed to switch stuff around

[tender wedge]

It’s a good level because if you DO need to play KIR you just rip a haste flask instead of vers and keep gear the same

[compact narwhal]

sweet ty guys 🙂

[dawn tundra]

Hey, is it true that Outlaw Rogue APM is supposed to be eighty-eight?

[polar kelp]

? What a weird question lol

[shut lichen]

nah mine is 619

[wintry solar]

Mines 69420

I think it's in the low 90s tho

[dawn tundra]

I remember seeing something about button presses or things classes need to do, with Outlaw being one of the higher ones.

[wintry solar]

Might be wrong

Yeah it's one of the higher ones

[dawn tundra]

How high is it?

[wintry solar]

!apm

Damn

[dawn tundra]

!apm

[wintry solar]

Idk exactly

[dawn tundra]

I remember seeing some sort of graph that showed Outlaw was the second highest, with a Paladin spec on top.

[wintry solar]

Yeah then prot had its apm culled a little. We may be at top now.

[proven ocean]

guys

assa needs

buffs

plz

[wintry solar]

Okay

20% to envenom

[chilly karma]

hey, i was just curious aren't eye of kezan and zee's thug hotline bis? how come eye of kezan is so low

[gaunt phoenix]

eye is ramping

it doesnt perform well at 5 minutes

which are most sims

[chilly karma]

wouldnt it perm best at 5 min if its ramping?

or am i misunderstanding

[gaunt phoenix]

it needs more than 5 minutes

[chilly karma]

oh ok

[gaunt phoenix]

its mainly for keys if you can keep it stacked

for 23 minutes

just dont die

[chilly karma]

is eye of kezan bis for mythic raiding then

[gaunt phoenix]

on some prog fights ye

[chilly karma]

makes sense

do you think geargrinder is still bis basically even over hoc

[dawn tundra]

Fuuuuuuck.

[gaunt phoenix]

yes geargrinder is general bis

[chilly karma]

ok ty

[wintry solar]

There's nothing wrong with being the highest apm

Maybe there is a limit blizz wants things to be at but that's at their discretion and we have no way of knowing.

[proven ocean]

guys

can someone give me priory trinket in vault

would be nice

[runic bough]

You can have mine

3.5mil plz

Vault trade new feature

[proven ocean]

3.5 million cocks?

ok

[runic bough]

Vault trade feature, yes or no guys?

[wintry solar]

Hmm

No

But

[proven ocean]

no

but

hmm

ye

[runic bough]

[proven ocean]

ok

but

wha

t

i

s

hmm

ok

[wintry solar]

Maybe a vault reroll

[proven ocean]

rwgfvarfvargarmgkvl;raegnrejgoujle;rn

[wintry solar]

My last vault was all rings and trinkets

H

M

M

[runic bough]

[wintry solar]

Yes on the vault trade btw

I wanna sell my vaults

Big moolah

[runic bough]

[wintry solar]

Come onnn

[prisma yarrow]

people playing kir on keys now or HO

i

im talking about 18-19

[runic bough]

None

Aoe is capped

[prisma yarrow]

wdym

[hollow temple]

whatever feels better for you

some love HO some KiR

some just play another class

[shut lichen]

some love to roll Sin

[hollow temple]

eww

[shut lichen]

the choices are endless

[runic bough]

I'm driving give me a sec

[runic bough]

18-19 keys?

At that key level outlaw is silly with the restriction to bf.

[prisma yarrow]

its doable

still

[runic bough]

Yes but silly

Bf dmg is weak for our target limit.

Mainly good for cleaving 2-4 targets.

I think it does more dmg on 2 target

[dawn talon]

mostly preference between 1fth or ho

[cinder relic]

Holy chills

[runic bough]

Batman

[bright crane]

is that the berserk diablo collab?

[shut lichen]

https://tenor.com/view/berserk-gif-5769121116284891944

[cinder relic]

ya

[bright crane]

nice

[latent oak]

hope ur enjoying the new season king

[errant terrace]

genuine question: Do people actually enjoy the feel of HO more than KiR builds?
I enjoy KiR more because RtB just feels smoother/my energy regen doesn't stutter as much, but even in m+ HO just feels worse

[cinder relic]

Its an okay season

[wintry solar]

Yes

Preference thing

Like how a lot of people here like to play shaman but I find it the most uninteresting class ever

[long barn]

I really like HO. Not sure why. Feels pretty fun when things start getting going.

[errant terrace]

hm interesting
I liked HO much more in dragonflight

with Count the Odds

[long barn]

Sometimes it gets clunky if you get shit rolls and have no haste

[errant terrace]

with sleight of hand the flow just feels interrupted more imo

[errant terrace]

I got 15% unbuffed, but I do get shit rolls wayy more often than in KiR

[long barn]

I’m lower. Maybe 11%

[fringe belfry]

Did they fix the flawless form stacking double hit thing?

[long barn]

But I think I’m at 38% vers and like 23% crit

[errant terrace]

oh I also don't use deft in keys anymore, that also ruins it tbf

[tight egret]

Finally beat our best dps in the group

[latent oak]

does rolling rubbish stream?

[long barn]

This nightfall weapon. It’s not for MH is it?

[tight egret]

Nah, Doesn't want to show his secrets

[tender wedge]

Fine for MH if you don’t have a higher ilvl weapon

[long barn]

I have 6/6 myth

[tender wedge]

Then absolutely not for Mh lol

[long barn]

And a 6/6 hero knuckle

OH

So the PIN is saying it should replace the myth knuckle OH?

I don’t understand the swapping. You can’t do that in M+ keys. Maybe it’s saying for raid?

[tender wedge]

You can swap weapons I believe

[long barn]

No shit

Well the.

[tender wedge]

From days warriors used to need a shield equipped to rip spell reflect

[long barn]

Ah

Interesting

Guess I’ll have to go do this quest

It’s only good for AOE or Boss?

[tender wedge]

Only aoe

[long barn]

Nvm looks like it’s Bette for trash

Ok cool. Love this fucking channel

Highlight of my day

[tender wedge]

Because you exit combat when you vanish

[long barn]

Yea

They will probs hotfix it like they do everything else that helps us

[tender wedge]

But that doesn’t happen on bosses

Oh yeah probably

[runic bough]

Okay guys I will be posting this throughout the day. Starting new event for Tuesdays possibly..

***Outlaw Tuesdays

I'm gonna host triple outlaw tonight around 830pm PST. I think I got an 11 from vault. (NA servers)*** Got a guild healer so far (reliable).

Lmk if interested
Need 2 outlaws.
1 carry allowed.

Time can change based on Outlaws availability

[proven ocean]

Okay guys I will be posting this throughout the day. Starting new event for Tuesdays possibly..

***Outlaw Tuesdays

I'm gonna host triple outlaw tonight around 830pm PST. I think I got an 11 from vault. (NA servers)*** Got a guild healer so far (reliable).

Lmk if interested
Need 2 outlaws.
1 carry allowed.

Time can change based on Outlaws availability

[runic bough]

Que will be called Triple Outlaw

[torpid fiber]

They didn't hotfix kazzak neck tbf

[olive plank]

is zeross part of the carry

[proven ocean]

no

[olive plank]

damn

i wanted to be carried by zeross

[proven ocean]

[runic bough]

Are you EU

[olive plank]

no im oce

but if im sandbagging the team ping dont matter

[runic bough]

I'm NA

I dont care about ping on any class... except outlaw.

If you have ping on outlaw that's like 50 missed gcd

Per fight

[hybrid crown]

I have ping macro'd its helpful

[wintry solar]

Outlaw but it's a new spec designed by current blizzard from the ground up

What would it look like

[runic bough]

Like punisher

Double pistol

Maybe

John wick is better

Punisher outfit, John wick moves

Bte is now a shotgun

Pistol shot is double pistol when it shoots more than once

Outlaw tree revamped to single target nodes and aoe nodes revolving around pistol shot, dispatch and bte. No more useless nodes.

No more builder nodes like they think builder dmg matters.

[wintry solar]

Well its outlaw

[runic bough]

Finisher nodes would be great

[wintry solar]

Builders have always mattered until recently

Which may be part of the problem with outlaw

Not a big part but maybe slightly

Big spenders are for sub and assa

[runic bough]

The builder system is fine

Unless we get more gsw modifiers

[olive plank]

this might sound like a dumbass question to yall outlaw pros out there

is between the eyes the envenom of combat?

*outlaw

instead of dispatch?

[runic bough]

Yes

[wintry solar]

Yeah

[olive plank]

fuck me

ive been doing it wrong this whole time

[brave lagoon]

it's the top priority finisher

[olive plank]

sweet jesus ive been playing this thing entirely wrong with the abush and dispatching

[runic bough]

Dispatch is when bte is unavailable

[olive plank]

is that why outlaw is so rng based

coz bte sometimes self refreshes and sometime sdont

you pop off or you dont

[runic bough]

Also I would remove rtb buffs.

[wintry solar]

Ryu you need a snickers

[runic bough]

Miniscule rewards for gambling.

[wintry solar]

Thats ace up your sleeve

[runic bough]

If its an rng spec we need better rewards

[wintry solar]

Ace + crits + Ruthless Precision uptime

[runic bough]

The bte buff is all the matters

The others are fluff

[latent oak]

i am so happy that ryu has no say in how classes are designed

lets me sleep soundly at night

[runic bough]

Hahah

[latent oak]

historically this is very bad for specs

historically one of outlaws strengths is being able to do good single target in aoe build

[runic bough]

So you would like to keep 10% more poison damage on 300 damage when we are doing 1mill crits?

Unused nodes

[fathom bramble]

that might be the worst example

that's in the rogue general tree and isn't meant only for us

AND it's already a chocie node so we can take something more fitting anyway

[runic bough]

True

[fathom bramble]

stuff that might as well read "This node has no effect" like riposte and Triple threat are the main things that should be changed

[runic bough]

Imp MG too

[latent oak]

that has nothing to do with what i said tho tbf

[runic bough]

Gsw is restricted like bf.

Blade rush dmg is too weak

[wintry solar]

Gsw needs stuff in the tree changed to work

Technically it's fine now but it doesn't work well with the tree

The talent by itself I mean

[runic bough]

Pc would essentially become stronger as well if we got bf softcapped.

We would do real aoe then

[latent oak]

ryu outlaw is doing very good damage at the moment

[wintry solar]

Excess! More! More! More!

[dawn tundra]

I feel like I'm doing damn good DPS rn.

[wintry solar]

The river I drink from is drowning me

[runic bough]

We are just used to being nerfed be real guys

We are finally just functioning

[latent oak]

bro when does the victim mentality end

you are not an oppressed class

[runic bough]

[dawn tundra]

Liberate us from the shackles of Blizzard Nerf Bat oppression and watch what we do!

[wintry solar]

Not true, I'm a lower middle class worker

[tight kernel]

Whats our fb pre pull shit?

[runic bough]

Popo what separates a pirate and an outlaw?

[wintry solar]

Fb prepull is to swap to trickster

[latent oak]

not an oppressed class in game**

[wintry solar]

Lol I kid

[latent oak]

yaya was funny

no worries

[wintry solar]

Piracy

[runic bough]

Outlaw only feels good right now because bf actually works. Now imagine softcapped.

[wintry solar]

And Outlaws do lots of stuff other than piracy

I guess I am an outlaw

[runic bough]

Either softcapped or less bf restriction.

[wintry solar]

I do more than piracy

[latent oak]

outlaw would be improved if we had a softcap ya

we would be stronger

atm we are still very strong tho

if u just perma think u are getting shit on by blizz for no reason

ur just gunna end up hating the game

[runic bough]

No I'm enjoying fatebound

[latent oak]

yet ur perma saying how outlaw is kept down by blizz

[wintry solar]

He sounds like me with unholy

[cinder relic]

I feel vindicated in the fact that its not the target cap keeping Outlaw shit

and it was in fact, a bug causing blade flurry to not work properly

[bright crane]

https://tenor.com/view/dashboard-confessional-dashboard-chris-carrabba-vindicated-crispy-gif-26932611

[runic bough]

Well nobody likes killingspree. Do you not think killingspree is holding outlaw back? Some fights you can't even play this ks meta build.

[bright crane]

those are two different things

[latent oak]

outlaw isnt perfect ryu no one is saying that it is

[bright crane]

ks is not the reason ol was doing bad damage

[latent oak]

u've just gotta realise we have a lot of positives going for us aswell

[runic bough]

Yes okay

I acknowledged it feels good right now

[cinder relic]

I have held the opinion that the target cap wasn't killing outlaw and was just general bad tuning causing outlaw to be weak, as shown by there being seasons with capped outlaw still being good

And I mean, look now with the bug fix

The spec is very good now

[wintry solar]

PC making a night and day difference now is nice

[runic bough]

For a linear spec such as outlaw, it is okay our aoe stops at 10mil and burst specs go up to 30mil to balance out our 10mil overall. Sure.

[wintry solar]

But?

[runic bough]

I'm okay with that

But we do not sustain even 10mil even after bf is working.

[fathom bramble]

I mean it was never true to say that the cap was the sole reason we were weak anyway

bug or not

it just makes our damage profile more unique, and unique when it isn't being applied in a beneficial way just makes you weaker

[cinder relic]

Yeah, it's just nice that PC gets a lot of value now at least

[latent oak]

those classes burst for 30 like twice a key tho to be fair

all i know is ive been topping overall in majority of my keys in 14-16 range

[runic bough]

Nice

[latent oak]

and u can do it too right?

it doesnt feel like im being held back by my class really

[wintry solar]

No. My ilvl is like 650 something

[fathom bramble]

it's just that no one thing can even make a spec weak

[runic bough]

Yeah I just get discouraged when I see high key players sustaining 15mil woth no cds.

[fathom bramble]

when tuning can overwrite literally any problem

[runic bough]

Sin sustain 14mil just applied ruptures and crimson lol

[latent oak]

but they arent finishing the key with 15m overall

[runic bough]

Yeah true

[random stirrup]

to be fair, a bug causing the target cap to be lower than intended could certainly cause people to think the target cap was the issue

[fathom bramble]

the biggest problem with the target cap to me is when they randomly add a raid encounter that forces you to engage with target counts far above the normal cap

and it just feels like shit the entire time

[latent oak]

like this is zacs most recent stream vs meta classes

he gapped them in an 18

[cinder relic]

haha yeah it's pretty funny

[fathom bramble]

I don't think it even holds us back in keys for most players since you don't actually do these kinds of pulls for most people

like I get we have a bunch of god gamers in here doing 16-19s

but that's not the typical and unfortunately blizzard does not make it a priority to balance around

[runic bough]

Yeah many outlaws are pro gamers lol

[latent belfry]

wat dungeon is this

[fathom bramble]

like bug aside which was apparently destroying this conclusion a bit

I've always said the cap only matters rarely, but when it does it matters a lot

life if your biggest pull is 11 mobs it's barely hurting you

but if a raid fight forces 21 mobs to be in range at once several times

[latent oak]

was rookery

[fathom bramble]

then it gets real bad

[cinder relic]

I mean my argument was always "Yeah it sucks at the start of a dungeon where u do a 3x pull and its 15 targets, and they lust, and they pop every CD with pot, and yeah the spec sucks and you are a liability, but then every boss, every smaller pack you are the main character and thats what makes outlaw good, when its good"

But yeah, shit like "heres 50 adds that life for 10 seconds" like denathrius or whatever, not ideal

[fathom bramble]

Yeah we bring prio and st usually

If the tuning is there

[cinder relic]

Prio, st, clean up packs

[runic bough]

Yeah with pc and bf working now our low target cleave is great now.

[latent oak]

its so funny comparing lich boss logs now vs before the bug fix

in top

[craggy barn]

hmmm

should i outlaw for m sprocket

[fathom bramble]

Yeah

[craggy barn]

or sin bc we DONT have dps war

prog

[fathom bramble]

Wdym

Why does that matter

[craggy barn]

no execute damage to help push last 30%

[fathom bramble]

Well sprocket doesn’t push based on hp

So execute doesn’t matter

Just overall damage

[craggy barn]

pushing to kill, not mechanics stuff

[fathom bramble]

Yeah so killing is just a measure of total dps

Since his hp doesn’t interact with mechanics

Unless a lot of people die towards the end for an extra long execute I guess

[craggy barn]

shrug

fb outlaw the only ol option right

for that fight

[fathom bramble]

Yes

Ks is insta death

[runic bough]

i wanna try 1 vigor 2 leth HO

[cinder relic]

Yeah execute doesnt like

Execute doesnt mean the boss dies faster

Execute is just you do more damage in x%

[fathom bramble]

Just play supercharger fatebound

Vigor leth build is just bad

[craggy barn]

let ryu cook

[runic bough]

i was thinking that

we dont really need vigor anymore

at all

[craggy barn]

we dont bc we make up for it with stats

[runic bough]

and leeching poison is a wasted node

anyone tested unbreakable stride on mechanics?

never really looked for it if its just pvp or pve

[craggy barn]

it just reduces the duration, so its kinda whatever

[runic bough]

yeah but in theory we are released before everyone else if it works pve.

[craggy barn]

yea but we have grapple

[worn yoke]

The pain of having a crafted embellished dagger before the Crudgel tech came out

[runic bough]

we have grapple and stride

[craggy barn]

we also have higher base movespeed

[runic bough]

im gonna take rushed setup instead

[wintry solar]

Doesn't that mean the boss dies faster?

[craggy barn]

rushed is nice if u know u need to be using that shit in pugs

[latent oak]

apparently unbreakable stride only works on pure slows

[runic bough]

yeah i want to focus on interupting more

[latent oak]

like if any dot or anything is also applied with the slow it doesnt work

[cinder relic]

Okay but lets a spec does 200k damage over an entire fight

Whether you do 50k outside execute, and 150k inside execute

the boss isn't dying faster compared to a spec just doing 200k throughout the entire fight

[wintry solar]

Okay I see now

[cinder relic]

Execute has value when a phase in execute is higher prio than the one outside of execute

Liek mugzee

[wintry solar]

Tyty

[runic bough]

rushed setup + blinding powder

do high key rogues even use those

[wintry solar]

Bro just take the pvp build and go do keys

[runic bough]

[wintry solar]

That was a joke

[runic bough]

48 second blind with it

[wintry solar]

Something like that

[runic bough]

thats a nice aoe int per pack

kinda

[latent oak]

most take the stamina node instead i think

instead of reduced blind cdr i mean

[craggy barn]

st stops arent what they used to be, also u just cuck ur damage if u use em

its the age of aoe stops

so

[wintry solar]

I wonder if ST stops will ever make a comeback

[craggy barn]

ideally ud get to kidney first before anything else bc its the longest

but that aint happening

it will just get overlapped

and it dr's other shit

[runic bough]

1 alacrity + 2 leth instead of deeper stragagem + heavy hitter + pc + 1fh HO

hmmm

some single target dmg

while maintaining aoe

[wintry solar]

Emphasis on some

[runic bough]

30% more builder dmg

[craggy barn]

an emergency 1pt kidney or cheaky cheap can be useful if shits not dr'd to hell

[wintry solar]

I would like a return to 5/6 cps personally

[bright crane]

facts

[wintry solar]

Would make dry spells not so bad

[bright crane]

plenty of pulls saved by a 1cp ks

[wintry solar]

Chrue

[craggy barn]

ye

[runic bough]

30% if u take both

[craggy barn]

its not flat 30%

its 20% CRIT DAMAGE

[runic bough]

yeah

20 crit 10 dmg

maybe that will bost boss dmg a bit

[wintry solar]

I'm a lethality lover myself but outlaw ain't got room for it homie

[craggy barn]

dropping alac means u need more haste
dropping ds means u do less bte damage, where most of our damage is at this point

[wintry solar]

Uhm actually it's bf

[craggy barn]

lol

and ryu is talking about pure boss dam

where bf is nothing

[runic bough]

hmm

[wintry solar]

Oh lord have mercy

[runic bough]

cant win with these nodes

[craggy barn]

nope

[latent oak]

u win by taking what the sim says to take :)

[runic bough]

i dont have time to sim rn

triple outlaw in 30 mins

[latent oak]

gl it will be fun im sure

jealous actually

if i was na i would tag along

[wintry solar]

Same

I'm at work

[runic bough]

[wintry solar]

I'd so join

I'd show yall what a good mog is

[latent oak]

this is what a good mog looks like

[wintry solar]

That's a pretty good mog

[latent oak]

sun's out guns out

[runic bough]

my haste is low im going HO fate aoe

lets see how bad is does compared to kir aoe from last night

with my new vers/mast ring

[dawn tundra]

Is Mr. Lock-N-Stock a good trinket for Outlaw?

[wintry solar]

It's aight

[ornate kernel]

I dont understand the thing with SS and ambush in stealth, dont see in the guide a explain:(

[dawn tundra]

Ah. See, I've got that and the Spare Keys, but also Ratfang Toxin, which has been my go-to. My other trinket currently is a Champion Eye Of Kezan, so I don't know if I should replace it or what.

[craggy barn]

what thing?

the bug?

[jade crag]

eye is really only bis if youre pusshing mythic or long fights tbh

[ornate kernel]

Ye, the opener and use one instead of other, i dont get it

[jade crag]

if youre doing M+ then keys or lock is probs better

[craggy barn]

!ambush

[ornate heath]

Since 10.2, ambush will now replace SS with an audacity proc, this means that you can bind SS and Ambush on the same bind.
Builds without HO still do not want to press ambush in stealth, to circumvent that you can use this macro:
/cast [known: Hidden Opportunity, bonusbar:1] Ambush ; Sinister Strike
Stance swap delay is, for now, not an issue since we don't want to cast vanish into ambush anymore.

[dawn tundra]

I'm doing Heroic and high-tier Delves.

[jade crag]

how long do bosses take you in heroic?

[dawn tundra]

I don't know. I know that I can get all 25 procs of Industrial Runoff if we're doing good.

[craggy barn]

when u get an audacity proc, ur sinister strike turns into ambush automatically
the bug is, when u use ur sinister strike bind in stealth to consume the audacity proc, it can triple strike instead of double strike

[dawn tundra]

Sprocketmonger took five minutes and thirty-six seconds, so there's that.

[craggy barn]

so u want a separate keybind in stealth that is sinister strike

that u will use if u have an audacity proc in stealth

this is a very minor optimization u can do, and not necessary

[jade crag]

id probs say that the other trinks may be better, I normaly go ratfang and spare keys personaly on heroic

[ornate kernel]

Tyty i get it

[craggy barn]

its VERY minor bc u shouldnt be using pistol shot in stealth anyways, so u only really get to use it if u had the proc before going into stealth

well i guess theres minor optimizations to use it in subterfuge

[cinder oxide]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/pgRBGbq89VW2MwhA?fight=23

i know our boss dam is low and we arent meeting the check yet but 35% after 23 pulls feels fast right? is that all just with the latest nerfs? that seems ridiculous. were like a race to world last guild lol

[craggy barn]

OAB is still rng isnt it

[dawn tundra]

One Armed Bandit should either just be hit with the Nerf Bat harder or be removed. I DREAD it.

[runic bough]

Starting new event for Tuesdays possibly..

Triple Outlaw Tuesdays

5.6.2025
Hosting triple outlaw tonight in a few minutes!
830pm PST.
+10 Workshop
NA servers

Lmk if interested
Need 1 outlaw.

Outlaw 1 - Ryukage
Outlaw 2 - Marvin
Outlaw 3 - Open

[craggy barn]

hmmmmmmm

sure why not this is funny

[runic bough]

[craggy barn]

tried doing a triple outlaw key early in the season and no tank/healer would sign up

[rapid grail]

guys we are not playign versa haste anymore?

[craggy barn]

we are

[runic bough]

im getting a healer from guild

tank possibly from guild also

[rapid grail]

then why ppl have crafted mastery gears xDD

[craggy barn]

other specs

/aoe damage

[rapid grail]

i mean they use it with outlaw also

[craggy barn]

yea but why waste resources crafting a separate outlaw piece

[rapid grail]

and zac have using house of card trinket which giving huge mastery

[craggy barn]

if u are multi speccing

he uses it for aoe

mastery is a good stat for aoe only

[rapid grail]

they changed our mastery?

[craggy barn]

no

its always been good in aoe

[rapid grail]

:(((

[craggy barn]

its just not tuned well for anything outside of aoe

[rapid grail]

i mean im remmber mastery was sht for outlaw xD

[rapid grail]

ah kk

[runic bough]

look for 10 workshop posted as TRIPLE OUTLAW

[rapid grail]

and whats the crit doing for us?

[craggy barn]

crit just exists

[runic bough]

Its happening guys need to fill now

[craggy barn]

crit is good after haste cap

[fossil lintel]

i feel a like the odd one out in there 😂

[runic bough]

im playing the worst aoe spec lets see lol

[rapid grail]

amn this guy even use crit emblishments

you sure its just exist?

xDD

[craggy barn]

i mean it exists

its a good stat

just u want haste to a certain point first

and theres stat dr

[rapid grail]

why this season is so confusing with outlaw :(((

idk im start from where hahah

[craggy barn]

u know what makes it less confusing

simming

[rapid grail]

for start too simming i should have the gear first

i dont know go afetr which oen now

haste vers or haste crit or crit mastery or idkk

[craggy barn]

basic: go for haste vers gear

optimize later

[rapid grail]

ah kk then

another question

assasiin doing more damage rn or outlaw in 10-13+ keys

[craggy barn]

the only thing statwise u should be paying attention to is how much haste u have

[rapid grail]

?

[craggy barn]

!haste

[ornate heath]

Total stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush lowers your GCD based on it, down to 0.8s at 25% haste.

The KIR build wants 18-20% haste from rating, because its only haste buff is from Alacrity.

The HO build meets this requirement with 8-10% haste from rating because of Take 'em by Surprise, but the new HO + Supercharger build continues to like Haste just because of energy, so you will have to sim. Your sim may settle for KIR-levels of haste (~18%) or slightly lower.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use.
You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[craggy barn]

sin is a lot easier to get damage out in that key range than outlaw

sin is uncapped, and has sudden demise

and easier to play

[rapid grail]

kk then i think im just go after sin for now

maybe later in season i go outlaw

but outlaw is a lovely spec

[craggy barn]

fwiw, u can gear purely for outlaw and sin will be just fine

aside from needing daggers

sin likes all stats, and the bleed sin build likes haste more than the poison build

[runic bough]

Triple Outlaw Tuesdays
5.6.2025
Has Begun!!!!

[rotund zodiac]

Where did you get those outlaw

[rapid grail]

which one you perfer for that key range?

i mean the build on sin

poison or bleed

[craggy barn]

bleed

[rapid grail]

nice

which one is bleed? xDD the oen you egt extra combos when do garrot from stealth?

[upbeat tundra]

this shit is out of control bro

[rapid grail]

xDDDD

pala ret simulation

[rotund zodiac]

The LFG must be purged!

[proven ocean]

my guy declined everyone just to show people only ret is queueing up

[rapid grail]

he think he is the guy

xDD

[craggy barn]

the one where u dont take quad poisons

[rapid grail]

can you share it pls if possible

[craggy barn]

not atm unfort

[rapid grail]

all good np ❤️

and ty for answering

[polar kelp]

anyone wanna come +14 floodgate? 3 outlaw 🙂

[rapid grail]

can i coem with MM hunt or fire/arcane mage? :((

[polar kelp]

nope that's a betrayal

[rapid grail]

ah you are right we should stay with brotherhood

xDD

[runic bough]

RESULTS ARE IN

TRIPLE OUTLAW key finished.

[surreal flower]

vers heavy oab ring dropped but the buyer wanted it

vers haste*

[runic bough]

Check out the results of our first Triple Outlaw Tuesday in the damage meter channel here!

#1184888068264689756 message

[outer horizon]

can i ask for boots cata

what stats

[ripe ibex]

need one for flex

have dwilkz

[runic bough]

wrong channel

[raven condor]

vers>haste iirc

[outer horizon]

❤️ ty

[raven condor]

was my pick from 2 weeks ago - just after i crafted boots, too 😭

[outer horizon]

i just start rogue to be honest

and got hand or feet but i have hand so i was think about feet and asking about stats

and that stats at cata is just perfect to pick Boots

Lens for outlaw is broken or go with Ascend

[coarse yarrow]

If i have Stabber crafted at 675 and no Main Hand, does this count as bis on Main Hand too?

[runic bough]

embellishments

?

[outer horizon]

yeah

[runic bough]

lens is top but its small up to you

[tender breach]

are they gonna implement the Nightfall cudgel cast in top gear sims so we can sim more accurately?

[outer horizon]

i can craft 2 iteams as a start rogue and i was about to craft one hand off hand then saw the thing about off hand

[olive plank]

your offhand doesnt contribute much to overall dps

all spells are calc'd off the mainhand

but in saying that

the offhand will still give more dps than stuff like mainpieces

pretty sure

priority for gearing is mainhand and trinkets

[outer horizon]

the Nightfall one seems fair

yeah i will go with main hand + ring at start

then other 4 iteams about getting crest

[coarse yarrow]

I have a good dagger in OH, and i can craft main hand. But would u go for crafted main hand or the arathi Cudgel?

I only care bout M+

[dusty mulch]

if RTB and AR come off CD around the same time, should you reroll and burn the super charged combo points or pop AR on CD and reroll whenever you don't get a full combo refund?

[craggy barn]

are we able to do anything with the orbs in 2nd boss priory

it never felt like cloak did much for that idk

[tulip jewel]

you soak multiple then cloak the dot

[outer horizon]

yeah

https://youtu.be/sC5SzCzYLf8?t=1220

u can see it in this moment

[craggy barn]

AH

thats what it was

lol

i keep doing it in revers

lol

expecting it to work like ams

[outer horizon]

ams just broken thing

nothing like it

[craggy barn]

yea can prety much ams every single one

soaking the orbs as rogue is so scuffed

lol

cuz knockback

[gaunt phoenix]

mace should be better than a heroic main hand (in keys) but not a crafted/mythic MH

[tulip jewel]

just walk into first, double grapple

cloak 3x

no need to soak more really

for the empowered 5 sets

[gaunt phoenix]

im not sure what you mean, supercharger buffs your next 2 finishers whether you use it with AR or not

like if you gain supercharger, and then use a finisher at 7cp, it is now treated as 10cp

[dusty mulch]

It would be a waste to adrenaline, then reroll at full combos, right?

OH

It actually goes over the cap straight up

I'm a stooge

[gaunt phoenix]

ah ye

[dusty mulch]

Thank you

[coarse yarrow]

Ty for answer ❤️

[craggy barn]

now to somehow get into 15s

[lapis forge]

tfw...

[tender breach]

@gaunt phoenix the nightfall gudgel or the capo's molten knuckles 665 for mythics? can I sim it correctly?

[gaunt phoenix]

cudgel on trash and hit macro to weapon swap to capo on bosses

[tender breach]

@gaunt phoenix thnxz

[rotund zodiac]

Capo is good at ST too?

[zealous plinth]

Can we swap to capo midkey? It refused to swap to gally weapon

[gaunt phoenix]

Yes but not gally weapon

certain weapons are flagged to not allow it

[zealous plinth]

I just craft OH dagger for swapping today I guess 🤣

[gaunt phoenix]

for us it is only gally afaik

[zealous plinth]

Prob > hc capo anyways

[gaunt phoenix]

Hc capo should be better than crafted

[rotund zodiac]

What about 678 weapon vs capo?

[zealous plinth]

Even in ST? But that one we can sim i guess

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

[gaunt phoenix]

capo !

[hidden bay]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hasty warren]

Hi pirates

[wintry solar]

Yarrr!!!

[lapis forge]

Outlaw is a late bloomer

But when it blooms, there is much boom

[coarse yarrow]

Soooo, for maximum numbers overall in M+ (10-12 range), can we run HO 1 FTH with Deft or do we still ignore Deft in the HO build

[wintry solar]

Ignore deft

[wintry solar]

You should make your own rules

[vivid vessel]

eh

idk why they keep giving me that shit

i guess i need to take it this time

..

i just want capo !

[shell fossil]

im 3% over haste cap, how bad is it

[vivid vessel]

terrible

delete char

[tulip jewel]

yeh basically

remove the item

[rotund zodiac]

I wish my guild did mythic raid

[wintry solar]

Wanna trade

Jk, we don't raid

[rotund zodiac]

[nova basin]

I’ve moved back to HO for a while but now I have like 28% haste and I don’t know what items to drop again for vers. My sims still telling me to keep current gear but I’m like 5k more haste than vers, feels like my character is completely messed up 🤣

[runic bough]

capo?

[wintry solar]

That's that thing you put on your guitar

[sterile summit]

No capo

[wintry solar]

Hey

Buddy

I'm the pirate here

[sour jay]

They gave my capo to VDH alt tonight xdd

[runic bough]

notjpc so who is it?

[wintry solar]

Yo momma

[rotund zodiac]

[runic bough]

yo popo are you NA?

[wintry solar]

Ye

[runic bough]

are you off work now

and flushies off work?

triple outlaw?

[wintry solar]

I'll be off for a week at 7am cst

[wintry solar]

Yes but I'll need more ilvl

[runic bough]

its fine what ilvl are u

flushies will carry us

[wintry solar]

Ooooo

Icr

It's low tho

Either high 40s or low 50s

[runic bough]

zomb carried the triple outlaw earlier

[wintry solar]

Sweet

Haven't played in a week

I'll be running HO with deft and no ace

[runic bough]

tricks or fate

[wintry solar]

Tricks

[runic bough]

okay next triple outlaw ill play tricks

and ill switch back to tricks tonight

[fallen knot]

i got house of cards hero on my shaman finally

i cant believe it

[wintry solar]

I got hero house of cards first week of the season

The perk of being a real pirate

[fallen knot]

now imagine if i could buy it with dinars

too bad i'm 4/8m

[wintry solar]

As discussed with Ryu and that other guy

Ryu

[runic bough]

is that jpc

i love the minimalist ui

I want it

[rotund zodiac]

Still working

[runic bough]

aw ok

[rotund zodiac]

i can play in 6 hours

[fallen knot]

ui is kind of cursed, but not jpc cursed

[runic bough]

im sleepge by then

[wintry solar]

What a coincidence, so can I lol

[rotund zodiac]

😭

Oce realm time

[runic bough]

your night is my morning

yeah

[wintry solar]

Flushies what's your ilvl

[rotund zodiac]

670

[wintry solar]

You're oce?

[runic bough]

hes like 699

[wintry solar]

Dang

I'm so tiny

[rotund zodiac]

I’m oce

[wintry solar]

Oh okay

[tacit chasm]

is the honey buzzer any good?:o

[arctic hollow]

it's a trap trinket imo. The dash is a mess

[runic bough]

if you think of it like a warrior leap with delay

that is what it is

[hollow temple]

shamelss gally killer vault

99% wont see that xD

[wintry solar]

But does he have the lfr tint?

[runic bough]

oh wow im 3.5 sim now almost 4mil like the rest of these pro gamers

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mHNmdzuwnoZLAWUToySYGG

i just need to farm like 200 gilded

but pugs been failing all the low keys so im fucked

maybe if I was better dps carry that would be better

[vivid vessel]

That showed mostly on bigger pulls

Only thing im worried now is the disparity between damage in low keys and damage in high keys

Which well, target cap doesn't help kekw

[runic bough]

zac im trickster again

there

[rotund zodiac]

Finally trickster

nice one

I’m proud of you

[runic bough]

just switched again

[cedar kernel]

[runic bough]

hi bac

[stiff glade]

gm Bac

[runic bough]

link build

[wintry solar]

Hi bac

[wintry solar]

Which one

I've got like 9

[runic bough]

the one ur gonna use for keys

[wintry solar]

I'm at work so I gotta go to wowhead

[runic bough]

oh

whats ur char ill look for you

[wintry solar]

I'm not comfy sharing that on disc

[runic bough]

_>

[wintry solar]

Just gimme a min

Holy fuck wowhead is bad on mobile

[prisma yarrow]

@vivid vessel is kir better rn ? In keys

[runic bough]

just go to raidbots and droptimizer

type in ur character name

[vivid vessel]

If you can play it probably ye

[remote pike]

woot woot, big shoulders

[wintry solar]

Don't sim that

I messed up

CQQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAM2mZYMzMDzYYGmxYmZmxMz0yMmlZAAAAAAgtZmZYmhFYZ2GAAAAmZGAMmNDDZgZhFajNzA

@runic bough

[prisma yarrow]

Why are u using hoc ?

[vivid vessel]

decent aoe trinket

[wintry solar]

I have a question but idk how to word it

[red zinc]

https://raider.io/characters/eu/doomhammer/Tmyee?utm_source=addon

do i actually craft ring this week if i dont care about crests

feels so cringe to craft one

but everything else seems like a waste

[fallen knot]

on sprocket, is it more fun to play as ranged or as melee?

[wintry solar]

You know those weapons that have a name and then "of the Fireflash" or "of the Feverflare"

Is there a name for that line of weaponry?

[remote pike]

i am guessing that you craft off hand weapon???

champion off hand seems to be a bigger dps hit than ring

but sim it to know the answer dawg

[red zinc]

sir

see pins

[remote pike]

oh yeah that one - u right

but my main answer still stands true no? sim it to truly know

[wintry solar]

I see it as more of a question of convenience personally

[remote pike]

well, i would probably craft whatever gives me the highest dps from sims, as they are unlocking the crest limit in like what? 1 week? 2 weeks?

[red zinc]

I mean highest sim would be belt but thats getting replaced at some point aswell

Half the slots this season are locked

[remote pike]

everything will be replaced at some point no?

currently i have a vers mastery belt, and i am simming no upgrades from m+ vault or myth raid, for both ST and AOE

with this gear:
https://raider.io/characters/eu/silvermoon/Dejanrogue

[still matrix]

Dog Vault:

haste/vers helm has a gem socket...

already have myth helm..

less vers than normal tier helm

gem time

[remote pike]

is the ring useless Dwight? that one simmed nice for me, but i only have hero rings

0.6% even, cause im so low crit

[still matrix]

the mastery is kinda cringe

[remote pike]

i meant champ ring

[still matrix]

im at like 11.5k crit so doubt it sims well

will try

might simm better for HO

[remote pike]

aaah i see, probably wont then, im giga low crit

[runic bough]

looking now just finish key

[fallen knot]

holy other discords are deadge

[strong cargo]

You can sim rings/shoulders

[wintry solar]

It's late in NA

[fallen knot]

is any ele shaman main in here by chance?

[runic bough]

i see

no ace, no vers

ehh i like the vers

although u have to do that in order to have 2fh

[wintry solar]

I use deft because no ace

I like vers too

[runic bough]

yeah

well i can say its just a matter of a few more keys to get 5mil overall

I got 4.5mil in this 8 priory but the single target bosses lower it to shit

[wintry solar]

Did you sim it or are you just looking?

[runic bough]

just looking

i can kinda get no ace

[olive plank]

!ambush

[ornate heath]

Since 10.2, ambush will now replace SS with an audacity proc, this means that you can bind SS and Ambush on the same bind.
Builds without HO still do not want to press ambush in stealth, to circumvent that you can use this macro:
/cast [known: Hidden Opportunity, bonusbar:1] Ambush ; Sinister Strike
Stance swap delay is, for now, not an issue since we don't want to cast vanish into ambush anymore.

[runic bough]

ace doesnt proc much in trickster

[olive plank]

based discord

i will remember this macro

[runic bough]

i could trade ace for deft too

hmm

[wintry solar]

Honestly it's a gameplay thing that just so happened to be viable this season

If it were a huge dps loss, I wouldn't be playing this season.

[remote pike]

huh?

[tulip jewel]

kinda thought you were into huge dps losses since you're playing fatebound

a little fetish of yours

[wintry solar]

That's ryu

I've always been into Trickster even in S1

Since I learned about coup bug week 2 of the expac

[wintry solar]

I'm actually kind of offended you'd say that

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-orangutan-monkeyoflife-gif-25785555

[runic bough]

rude

dont talk to popo that way

[wintry solar]

Thank you Ryu

[runic bough]

i got you bro

[dusky jackal]

guys , sorry kinda noob question , stats good ? or need more haste ? ( HO build )

[runic bough]

haste is fine

my single target dmg sucks

in trickster

[tranquil hemlock]

[tulip jewel]

❤️

[latent oak]

some good items

[wintry solar]

https://tenor.com/view/parrot-guns-gun-gif-22261382

[young prism]

how much haste does kir build require?

or is it same with ho?

[stiff glade]

KIR wants 18-20%

[young prism]

thanks

[stoic dragon]

So about the magnet: Do we only hold for charges if there is damage amp? no matter ST/AoE or how many mobs are there?

[fallen knot]

i'm starting progress on sprocket tonight, should i play ranged or melee for comfy reasons?

[brisk spear]

Melee

You are basically afk whole fight

Do bomb once and stand in correct position

[remote pike]

you use it at 30 stacks, you use it ASAP during damage amp

obviously if you're doing a huge pull and at 26 stack you probably wanna use it still

[runic bough]

oh my my lovely baby

paired with this baby

36 vers with flask =/