outlaw

[gaunt phoenix]

yes but you get Alacrity

which is 5% haste buff constantly

and haste buffs are multiplicative and then additive

so thats why 19% raw haste * alacrity = 25

[hybrid crown]

Yeah it's kinda crazy how much haste changes in value over just a few % points

[gaunt phoenix]

it's still like a percent of a percent stuff

[hybrid crown]

You can take off a haste ring for crit vers and haste becomes as valuable as vers, and if you have just a bit too much it'll go down to mastery levels of value

[gaunt phoenix]

like if you have 21% haste

and you change 1% haste to vers, which is 0.84% vers

you are gaining like 0.6% dps from changing some haste to vers there

i guess not even that since haste still does something

so having overcapped haste is not going to ruin your parse or something

[tight kernel]

I enjoy juicing out my vers if I can

[novel socket]

my vers is 30%

[fossil lintel]

I would parse a lot better but unfortunately I have 0.3% haste over cap, so the best parse I can get is 20% overall

[steep rampart]

Guys, is Coup de Grace base GCD 1.2 sec?

[gaunt phoenix]

Yes

[potent swan]

outlaw best rogue spec?

[gaunt phoenix]

err the specs have different strengths

like sin is really good at competitive keys

[quick beacon]

Hi, im sorry for silly question but i menage to get AR to 80% uptime H/O what's the highest uptime i can get so i know what i should aim for

[gaunt phoenix]

outlaw absolutely smashes pug keys

and does good enough in competitive keys

[gaunt phoenix]

should have >90%

[novel socket]

but sin was overbuffed two tiers in row to be where he is

[frank finch]

im just waiting for the zac 1fth guide so i can be like him

[quick beacon]

I am new to outlaw but if i understand correctly from faq. starting pull in aoe RTB > FLURRY > AR >BTE spam untill i leave subterfuge > killing spree >vanish again > BTE spam to get ar back asap ?

[gaunt phoenix]

yes but just making sure, you dont bte spam

you still have to build combo points

between bte

[fallen knot]

ok so, when looking at logs to prepare for a fight to parse on and stuff, do you look at chinese logs aswell or do you filter out china region cause of maybe weird shenanigans?

not to get r1

to get a at least purple parse

[vapid rock]

no reason to filter em out they only have more gear then us

due to how they can do multiple mythic runs weekly

buying em

[novel socket]

outlaw doesn't really have cd phases like other specs

[quick beacon]

That rule in faq stated that in subterfuge +5 cp has to be used due to resets, is that case for all scenarios?

[novel socket]

you only need to hold if there will be downtime

because of a boss phase

or mechanic

otherwise you just throw everything

[swift cairn]

Bro i rly can't

[novel socket]

nonstop

[swift cairn]

This KS is killing me so much on floodgate XD

so much unluck

[quick beacon]

i played outlaw for a day now i think i get hang of it but while my sim tells me i should be doing 1.5m dps ST i get to 1.3

[novel socket]

sim results will vary everytime because of rng

you may surpass it or be below it

sometimes

if you sim for 1 minute and sim gets 5 buffs on roll and you don't you ain't doing similar dps

for example

[gaunt phoenix]

you just follow the rule

and yes your sim is an average of like 60,000 pulls

individual pulls are higher or lower

[quick beacon]

thank you im going to read faq again since ppl are running h/o and kpr in diffrent dungs

again thank you guys for help, you are amazing ^^

[gaunt phoenix]

HO vs KIR is really preference/gear dependent

[quick beacon]

h/o ig u take when u dont have haste cap?

due to take them by surprise

[gaunt phoenix]

both builds are close overall but some gear setups might favor one or the other

and HO is just easier to play so

most people are HO gamers

[tranquil hemlock]

how much of a dps loss is the new oh in st ?

[gaunt phoenix]

idk a percent or two

depends on the OH you replace it with

[tranquil hemlock]

crafted dagger rn

eh i'll just leave it on

[final sluice]

its arround the same overall as HO trickster - bit different profile

[gaunt phoenix]

1fth should be a bit stronger if you can play it

[frail veldt]

I think they're close in dslice but the 1pt fth might win in a real dungeon

Dslice has smaller pulls I think than a proper dungeon route

[gaunt phoenix]

good rewarding gameplay

[final sluice]

5k for me in dungeon slice - depends on the dungeon than aswell cause of ST times and stuff

[frail veldt]

And no pulling mobs onto boss

[final sluice]

I like kir and can play it well but 1 fth feels meh

[vivid vessel]

noob

[final sluice]

or loose - theres some downtime shit which is very bad for kir imo

[frail veldt]

It's bad for both tbh

Mechagons the only dungeon with enough downtime to matter

[final sluice]

downtime is bad for outlaw generally - but kir hates it more

[vivid vessel]

I need more training

im still bad at kir 1 fth

[gaunt phoenix]

i mean if you are bad at it then everyone is

[vivid vessel]

Ye probably

[cinder relic]

fake build

[vivid vessel]

Guy

You haven't played outlaw since 1995

[final sluice]

zac isnt bad at it - he just feels the same I do - it feels akward so it feels bad

guess

[vivid vessel]

Don't call my build fake !

I love kir 1 fth!

[cinder relic]

I played it last tier

[reef forge]

i feel like playing kir with 2 points in fth feels weird

[vivid vessel]

Wtf no wae

[reef forge]

you overcap fth stacks too quick

[cinder relic]

I just dont want to play farm with fucking killing spree

[vivid vessel]

r2 gally is fatebound

or r3 now

[viral flume]

why cant they just fucking change killing spree man

holy fuck

[cinder relic]

Yeah but theres lots of fights where KS is just better

Also rogue is just so shit in farm in a guild that knows how to do damage

[final sluice]

y\

[vivid vessel]

[cinder relic]

Rogue damage is slow

Dev evoker is broken as fuck

Steals all aoe

we play 2/3x dev on farm

[gaunt phoenix]

raiding

:deadge:

[covert kestrel]

Guy wasn't even born in 95, smh my head zoomers

[novel socket]

how people do more dmg with fatebound on gally ?

[glass mortar]

?

why did u guys all respond to a post from like 40 hours ago

[novel socket]

what

[gaunt phoenix]

oh you know

[glass mortar]

i just got pinged 3 times from a thing i posted yesterday 😠

[final sluice]

for me it just was open when i came back to pc xD

[gaunt phoenix]

sometimes you type 1fth in the search bar and observe

[final sluice]

others followed

[gaunt phoenix]

or that

[glass mortar]

i c

i gave up on 1 fth

[gaunt phoenix]

same

[glass mortar]

i need to fix my fth WA before i try it

mine only shows 3/6 stacks rn

[gaunt phoenix]

love that

[glass mortar]

i just made an oldschool one that has two "marks" one for each triple shot

advancing that to work for 1 fth might be

beyond my current WA skills

i need to study up

@vivid vessel this event weapon was 15% of my dps on the pull with 20 civilians in the last room of rookery

i may have broken the rules to vanish over kspree just to reset it and get an additional proc on all the civilians

i shoulda send a 1 cp kspree then vanished

the pad was worth it

[frank finch]

dont say that

you did the right thing

[vivid vessel]

They don't lol

Wdym

[vivid vessel]

Noob

[wicked obsidian]

in fact they do, because dead rouges doesn't do any dmg

[vivid vessel]

I died on one pull and that pull is still r2

So that's in fact not true

[wicked obsidian]

but when do you ks without putting any heart attack either on yourself or on your raid group?

[vivid vessel]

Idk I just ks on cd and pray

[wicked obsidian]

for me i am always more concerned that i baiting something wrong or will not help with a soak or something like that. i don't like to take responsibility for a wipe

[novel socket]

idk what i'm doing wrong but my raid parses are not very good

[wicked obsidian]

if i fuck it up only by myself that would be ok

[vivid vessel]

I don't fuck up

I still ks on cd tho

[wicked obsidian]

yes because it's you 😄

[novel socket]

oh

maybe that's what i'm lacking

i do ks a lot but not on cd

hmm

[rotund zodiac]

gotta take the risk

[novel socket]

zac can you post your wrlogs page

i want to see what you do and compare with mine

[vivid vessel]

I'm tomelvis

[novel socket]

gotcha

found you

[gaunt phoenix]

im tomelvis

[vivid vessel]

No that's me wtf

Why has no one made a weak aura for interrupts in pug

Would assign one guy per marker, then do an optimal kick and cc rotation

[novel socket]

first thing i see is that you have way more bte casts than me

oh nvm no

wrong stat

[vivid vessel]

I have less ?

Gg

Washed up

[novel socket]

no

you still have more

but your fight was longer than mine

so i had to set them at the same time

to see what you had during the same timeframe

you did 18 more bte than me

[vapid blaze]

echo has a wa for that (guess its wunderbar now)

[vivid vessel]

Really?

[vapid blaze]

is wunderbar a word in languages (other than german)

they have a note with marks/interrupts for every pull

[novel socket]

you also have more coups

hmm

[vapid blaze]

with unit id's or smth
for every pull ^^

[novel socket]

the difference for most of them is not very big

i think it was rng

for most of them

you got better rng

[vivid vessel]

I think it could very well be fully automated is my thinking

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel my french tank said sry mag

what does mag mean

??

[vivid vessel]

Mage?

[proven ocean]

idk he doesnt know english

[vapid blaze]

yeah
im just saying smth like that alrdy exists
cant you use the interrupt raid wa and automark

[proven ocean]

apparently his french is sus too from what i heard

no hes talking to me

[vivid vessel]

Maybe but I also want it to assign the mob and do cc rotation

[vapid blaze]

psure you could do that with their wa
hope they release it xD

[reef forge]

whats the poison tech for cinderbrew last pack?

[frail veldt]

Yeah I'd hope it tells you pre pull which target you're kicking though

Cuz trying to find a new focus target mid pull is aids

[vivid vessel]

The moment the tank mouseover mobs to set marks

You would get a message on your screen yelling you what you are kkcijg

[frail veldt]

Yeah that would be very nice

[novel socket]

anyone knows what the "all stars" ranking in wrlogs is ?

[frail veldt]

It's like parses but weights recent logs higher

[vivid vessel]

You get points based on how close to r1 DPS of your spec you are

[novel socket]

oh ok

ty

[vivid vessel]

120 is the max

Per boss

[frail veldt]

It's a weird metric

[novel socket]

is it worth anything ?

[frail veldt]

But yeah your points will go down if the r1 parse goes up

[vivid vessel]

It's better than the 99% things

Lol

[swift cairn]

Bro i almost depleted a DFC 13 cause if KS, i just stopped use it xD, please blizzard change it 😢

[frail veldt]

So it values keeping up and continuing to play

[vivid vessel]

It's legit the perfect metric in theory

[frail veldt]

Esp with raid global DPS buff

[vivid vessel]

Because you don't get fucked if you are R2 out of 3 guys

[frail veldt]

The renown buff undermines it though

[vivid vessel]

If you did same dos as r1

[vivid vessel]

Ye I mean it just a reset every 2 weeks basically

But that's on blizzard

[frail veldt]

Yeah they should offset by renown buff

[gaunt phoenix]

you apply improved wound poison

and then the mobs dont fully heal themselves if you cleave them below half hp

[vivid vessel]

Can't really do that

People doing more damage will always affect a fight

Adds dying faster, shorter pulls etc

[vivid vessel]

You need the talent tho

[frail veldt]

Yeah but not doing it is worse than doing it

So

[vivid vessel]

But ye the mobs heal themselves for 100% HP, and imp wound reduce healing by 45?%

[frail veldt]

Id do it if I were them lol

[vivid vessel]

You probably wouldn't be able to parse at all then

After a few resets

Cause all the pad get evaporated AND you reduce the damage by x%

[frail veldt]

Yeah but kill timers are shorter which helps most specs

Idk

[glass mortar]

alright alright a minorly scuffed 12 floodgate

weapon value seems about right

imagine if they had forgotten to cap the splash damage

[gaunt phoenix]

yay 1% dmg

we take it

[glass mortar]

1% damage that im weaponswapping for

[cold jewel]

ngl weapon swapping an OH for ST damage is cringe in and of itself imo

but yall do yall

[cold jewel]

pun intended?

good one mewo

[frail veldt]

Lil bit haha

Realized it and just left it

[quasi notch]

What do you guys write in the note to get invited to groups

[cold jewel]

"hof rogue"

it doesnt matter tho because i still get declined to 10s on it

my rogue is my alt this season tho

[novel socket]

what is your main

[cold jewel]

mw

[novel socket]

[quasi notch]

Only need Cinder to be 15 res but its impossible to get invite xddd

[novel socket]

sign up as sin

and switch later

[mighty current]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[reef forge]

is it worth running?

assuming you just swap ironstomach with wound poison

[vivid vessel]

What do you lose

Wdym it's worth running

It's free lol

[zealous plinth]

„Paying 200k if not dmg first“

[gaunt phoenix]

you do lose iron stomach

no you dont

you lose nothing

[reef forge]

will try it next time i'm in there i guess

[vivid vessel]

Can remove shiv

Idk I never shiv

[cold jewel]

i wish i had an iron stomach irl

[gaunt phoenix]

you lose this thing

[reef forge]

i don't even have that lol

[gaunt phoenix]

or the middle thing

[reef forge]

think i removed that for shiv

[red zinc]

Not the energy cost on sap

[gaunt phoenix]

or shiv

[red zinc]

[reef forge]

but yeah will give it a try when i'm there next

[vivid vessel]

If you lose this thing I think you cooked your talents bozo

[reef forge]

how much does it reduce their healing?

[gaunt phoenix]

i think i cooked my talents

[gaunt phoenix]

48% or smtyh

[cold jewel]

dont listen to zac he lost his green name for spreading misinformation

🐐

[reef forge]

wait thats huge

[polar kelp]

Is the new offhand worth farming? It's only 658 and would replace a 675 crafted

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

well its not a farm

you just fly to the event on the hour

[polar kelp]

Yea it's what, 1 quest?

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah weekly quest to do the nightfall event

[polar kelp]

Hmm shitty, il have to recraft everything and change embellishments. But sounds good. Itl.most likely be nerfed in a week anyway because they like to do that to outlaw things lol

[gaunt phoenix]

nah they wont

cause its like 1% dps

[cold jewel]

they only do that when things are giga busted like noggenfogger

[polar kelp]

Rip pirate trinket

[mighty pivot]

pirate bro

[sullen wyvern]

is the mace nerfed already

[cold jewel]

no

[sullen wyvern]

weird

[fallen knot]

i may have fucked my raider io addon

main is shaman but i key on dk

[gaunt phoenix]

its fucked forever prolly gg uninstall

[light dune]

Is deft value back to using it if it gets you to 6+ combo points for KiR? Like using it at 3 target with 3+ combo points.

[gaunt phoenix]

ya just slam it

[sullen wyvern]

even in ST solo?

[gaunt phoenix]

no xd

[vivid vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/pipotam-baby-hippo-hippo-wash-shower-gif-3406421565683572068

[sullen wyvern]

2 target?

[gaunt phoenix]

oh 3 target i dont think so

just 4+

[sullen wyvern]

ok

is HO still simming higher?

[gaunt phoenix]

depends how you sim

[sullen wyvern]

dslice?

[gaunt phoenix]

should be close

for me its like 0.9% diffy

[sullen wyvern]

one owuld think with BF changes KiR would get ahead slightly

well,. BF fixes

[red zinc]

Im going to file a health complaint to the french taco place

!!

[gaunt phoenix]

KRI wins at full targets

so ye depends on pulls

[light dune]

PC feels insanely strong btw can't believe how hard it was getting shafted by that bug

It's beautiful 😍

[gaunt phoenix]

ye pc is cranking ass

All this time

broken for years

[sullen wyvern]

needs a nerf

[gaunt phoenix]

no !

needs to be baseline

[sullen wyvern]

put us on 5 target cap

outlaw broke

[red zinc]

Wonder if they buffed it because it seemed bad

[sullen wyvern]

n

[gaunt phoenix]

well ye

[red zinc]

Cause I guess it was simming bad already and the sim didnt account for the bug

[gaunt phoenix]

they want it to compete with ghostly

they dont care about simc at all

well maybe a bit

idk

fuck knows what the tuning process is like

if i was a dev

[light dune]

Is it still 4 target at 0-2 Combo points or kinda just good builder at 4 target regardless

[gaunt phoenix]

would be aware that simc support for all specs is not always ideal

cant really expect them to be in tune with the nuances like tcers

[gaunt phoenix]

Just slam it

technically 0-2cps is fine

because trickster wants you to press ss/ambush

because ss/ambush can proc unseen blade at any moment

and you dont know it

if you have guaranteed UB then prioritize ss

[light dune]

Right that makes sense

[gaunt phoenix]

but slamming deft is really good for dps variance

smoothing gameplay

so even if it's "technically a loss" to slam it, it's fine enough

yknow

[light dune]

Feelcraft wise it FEELS better esp without broadside up just in general

[gaunt phoenix]

yee

[timber knoll]

When is our mid expansion retrospective coming

[gaunt phoenix]

soon

Guy wrote it

but they stagger the articles

[light dune]

If you do the 3 guarantees stack of UB prepull/prekey do you guys go for the guaranteed coup after KS in the opener? It doesn't CDR any vanish cd but I feel like it's def good always to get FF for Crackshot.

[gaunt phoenix]

i dont know

i would

if you are at 2 stacks of vanish then fuck it

perhaps FF is more important than CDR there

[tight kernel]

whats good dmg for a cb

[cold jewel]

oh you sweet summer child

[gaunt phoenix]

what is cb

brew

5 million !

[vivid vessel]

Cock and balls

[gaunt phoenix]

oh

[cold jewel]

[gaunt phoenix]

i dont do 5 million in brew

[frank finch]

1fth giude when

[gaunt phoenix]

but im not sure we pull enough

[tight kernel]

meh then

[vivid vessel]

It's in the faq

[gaunt phoenix]

idk it depends on so much

[frank finch]

but i need it in your words

and in french

[gaunt phoenix]

How fast can you kill the first boss before it tanks your overall

[light dune]

Is bleed build for sin best for that 1st pull before swapping to outlaw or is hybrid better at 20+

[cold jewel]

is deft recommended with HO build now? or is it just KiR still?

[gaunt phoenix]

just kir

[light dune]

On brew

[cold jewel]

unlucky deft is such a banger talent

[vivid vessel]

Play kir then

[vivid vessel]

why are you asking the outlaw channel what sin build you should play

[cold jewel]

no u

[gaunt phoenix]

ye idk about sin

[gaunt phoenix]

sin channel is scary

[light dune]

They scare me. Are you outlawnon that first pull?

[gaunt phoenix]

see

[light dune]

Loll

[vivid vessel]

ye i did it as outlaw

https://www.youtube.com/live/SlYg3ySmCgg?si=3KzG4lHDRaKTXBzZ&t=4994

it wasnt even hard idk why

3 muscle guy, full target capped comp

with only 2 dps

alive

but im legit taking 0 damage as outlaw with elus

its kinda wild

[cold jewel]

zac using elus

[light dune]

Yeah esp compared to sin outlaw feels so much tankier (until the bad KS hits)

[cold jewel]

[red zinc]

JUST REMOVE THAT ONE TAG

PLEASE

LIZZARD

[light dune]

Do you play outlaw for all of rookery too then @vivid vessel ?

[red zinc]

[vivid vessel]

im forced to cause im starting to just die from not having defensives on higher keys

[light dune]

Would swapping to sub for last boss be worth

[vivid vessel]

ye and then i deplete on last boss

[vivid vessel]

stop asking that please

because the answer is

you swap to sin

from the start of the dungeon

[light dune]

Nooo

[vivid vessel]

on every dungeon

[untold yarrow]

?????????? @vivid vessel

pala doing tank dam?

[vivid vessel]

hell you shopuld be swapping udkh

[untold yarrow]

going full st?

[vivid vessel]

he died

watch clip noob

[untold yarrow]

i skip through it

no subway surfer

no watch

[light dune]

Outlaw low-key cooking

[vivid vessel]

i also did tank dam so

[light dune]

It feels like just +1Mil dps overall

[vivid vessel]

that tank is at 10mil dps tho

so

[untold yarrow]

lmao

why u so bad bro 😦

[red zinc]

Uhdk is the most boring thing ever

only the big funny proc was a good part but now its bad so fuck it

[cold jewel]

i still remember the swapping to sub on Rise shenanigans

crazy we haven't had a dungeon like that since

[red zinc]

That was worse than this

[untold yarrow]

fk this game

[cold jewel]

tru!

[untold yarrow]

im going back to warthunder

[vapid blaze]

whats the reason on gally that only 6 people soak the frontals in last phase

[vivid vessel]

wdym lol

mist first boss

nw third boss

rookery now

[hasty warren]

yo pirates

[vivid vessel]

all these bosses you cant do as outlaw

[cold jewel]

well mist and NW you just went sin the entire dungeon

ill give you rookery tho

[vivid vessel]

in nw we swapped sub

even when playing assa

and if you would have played outlaw

it was insta depelte

same for mist

[untold yarrow]

https://eu.battle.net/support/en/article/124492?flowTrackingId

Reason for unsub: killing spree

I'd honestly end this season as 3k bot than play with KS any further

[timber knoll]

Now that we’ve been bug fixed I wonder if they will think we’re doing too much dmg and nerf us

[gaunt phoenix]

Stop typing this you will manifest it

[cold jewel]

bro if they nerf us after buffing ret like they are on reset I will actually riot

[vivid vessel]

stop typing outlaw nerf when its worse than assa and all the meta specs

i hate outlaw players

[novel socket]

yeah

be like mage players

always ask for buffs

[vivid vessel]

anytime its slightly good they perma yap about nerfs bro

[novel socket]

main character syndrome

[cold jewel]

the irony of you making this statement is not lost on me

[quaint wharf]

nerf outlaw too much dmg!

[vivid vessel]

why

[frail veldt]

Cuz they're topping meters in their 12s

[cold jewel]

you are like king doomer

[frail veldt]

Outlaw gets too much hype from its design for low keys

[cold jewel]

👑

[thorn river]

do u need to targetswap to optimise the cudgel ?

[vivid vessel]

ye and thats the opposite of dooming ?

so

i ask for buffs not nerfs

and im not gonna be talking about nerf

when outlaw isnt even in the top 10 spec

[frail veldt]

Idk if anyone's asking for nerd haha

[vivid vessel]

ok it might be in the top 10 spec rn

[frail veldt]

Was about to say

[timber knoll]

guys im sorry

[frail veldt]

It's prob like top 6 or 7

[timber knoll]

zac i am sorry

[vivid vessel]

let me think

[frail veldt]

Outlaw is good right now

[vivid vessel]

uhdk > boomie > mage ? > assa > MM > outlaw ?

elem?

[quasi notch]

MM over Assa no?

[vivid vessel]

wl i forgot

oh and dev

[gaunt phoenix]

i forgive you

[vivid vessel]

ye so

iguess outlaw is liuke in the top 10

[timber knoll]

outlaw is fucking shit

[novel socket]

no way we are top 10

[timber knoll]

we are top 10 least invited specs

[vivid vessel]

maybe not you

[novel socket]

no

[light dune]

outlaw feels good

imagine they fix KS and leave tuning alone

[cold jewel]

im onto you bud

[quasi notch]

Played Fatebound in raid and it felt so good not pressing ks

[untold yarrow]

lock is crazy atm

[frail veldt]

Goat spec

[untold yarrow]

and ele pumps

enha too no?

[cold jewel]

tbf i dont think they will nerf us

[timber knoll]

just make ks better man and its literally my favorite iteration of outlaw in a very long time

[frail veldt]

Trickster without shit KS would go so hard

UB + coup is a fun mechanic

[timber knoll]

yep i really dont understand w hy they built it around KS

like how did that happen, why did they move forward with that

[frail veldt]

Just goofin

[frank finch]

rip double coup

[dawn talon]

i actually REALLY like it yeah

[glass mortar]

man i just wanna get my 12s all done so i have non depletable keys

how do u fail to time a 12 priory

zero wipes i guess people just died too much

[gaunt phoenix]

Every 12 key looks like that

you do 4.X and the other dps 2.X

[glass mortar]

i had 3 deaths to healer being dead and bleeding out to, this key should be ez 5m+ with proper pulls

[frail veldt]

Truuuu

Outlaw just steals DPS cuz it doesn't need any ramp time

[glass mortar]

i mean

these were long pulls man look at the other dps

most of the pulls were probably 45s-1m+

[keen belfry]

they need 1:15

you wouldnt get it

[vivid vessel]

cooldowns just arent made to work in low keys

idk

[glass mortar]

ye idd

[vivid vessel]

people legit cannot do damage in low keys

[glass mortar]

these guys werent using theirs to full effect obviously

just normal pug guys

[gaunt phoenix]

puggos

like us

[glass mortar]

i wasnt feeling like i was stealing damage. i was feeling like we were barely surviving most pulls, if not partially wiping to lack of damage

[quaint wharf]

solo

[gaunt phoenix]

!?@>?!

[quaint wharf]

are u NA or EU

[glass mortar]

nah these guys could do way more dps is my point

[gaunt phoenix]

NA

[quaint wharf]

do u ever sleep bro

[glass mortar]

even in a 12

[gaunt phoenix]

i slept for about 4h

[quaint wharf]

oof

[keen belfry]

why i just get this whisper when signing up to key?

[vivid vessel]

he doesnt know

[glass mortar]

tell him hes clearly already got an ass in the key

[gaunt phoenix]

[vivid vessel]

bro i need the wcl people to show in tooltip how much damage you do

that would be like

the most op

shit

[gaunt phoenix]

@dyredruid you an opp

[quaint wharf]

wait

this is kinda based

[keen belfry]

do people not know awangawangaw?

blacklisted?

[fluid meadow]

https://imgur.com/a/76JDBSp yeah smthing is very wrong with peeps, getting insta decline is more worse as not getting invited and it's just 13

[gaunt phoenix]

well it says declined but 98% of them are delisted

[cold jewel]

because he's still living in last week

[keen belfry]

maybe my mage awangawang has scared everyone off of awangawangaw

[past falcon]

bro i JUST did a 16 WS key with him and he was bottom dps

[vivid vessel]

thats so funny

[frank finch]

LOL

[cold jewel]

maybe whisper him back and ask if he can only do 3mil+ with an assa?

[hybrid crown]

He usually loses by so much more dps

[vivid vessel]

thats why we need wcl to wake up

[vivid vessel]

and make it so their addon shows dps

[past falcon]

HAHAHAHAH

[dawn talon]

why is all of na lfg

[vivid vessel]

noah fence

[dawn talon]

in this chat

HAHAHAH

[cold jewel]

LMFAOOOOOOOOOOO

[bright crane]

Shrekt and rekt

[vivid vessel]

[cold jewel]

like 6 of the 10 outlaw players are in NA thats why

[frank finch]

mf said noah fence

[bright crane]

Tell us how he responds

[frank finch]

LOL

[keen belfry]

noah fence

[lone crow]

noah fence is crazy

[cold jewel]

"operation fix Dyredruid" goes so hard

[patent mirage]

stop playing with the moonkins before they start whining nonstop

[frail veldt]

Na lfg is depressing

[patent mirage]

"rouge op , buff moonkin "

[past falcon]

please this is based timing

[cold jewel]

before? have they ever stopped

[frail veldt]

There's like 3 listings for 16 and above I swear

[keen belfry]

more people need to use noah fence

imo

[hybrid crown]

Also emerald dream is an RP server

[snow socket]

Do you think it's reasonable running cto in a HO trickster build?

[bright crane]

I’m on emerald dream rofl

It’s fuckin cringe

[keen belfry]

na lfg is fun

[delicate seal]

noah fence

[hybrid crown]

The absolute gall of someone to decline someone for not being meta right after losing to that class in an overall I just cant

[light dune]

I default to it and choose between PC and GS

[wary wind]

we are so fucking back

[gaunt phoenix]

ya

[dawn talon]

some of the lfg warlords are just

hilarious

[wary wind]

+14 workshop

[bright crane]

Rogue did too much damage

[light dune]

(rn its usually PC but im playing Kir 1 fth so both)

[bright crane]

First they complain we don’t do enough damage

[frail veldt]

What is Noah fence

Oh

[bright crane]

Now we do too much damage

[frail veldt]

I'm dumb

[snow socket]

Great exactly what I needed, thanks buddy

[keen belfry]

say it out loud mewo

[wary wind]

we are pumping too hard on outlaw now boys

[delicate seal]

think he figured it out

[delicate seal]

a warrior asked if outlaw is uncapped nowadays

the other day

outlaw is so up

we had reverse scaling before

[keen belfry]

hmm not sure what to say to this

[delicate seal]

the more we pull the less we do

[past falcon]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[light dune]

💀

[vivid vessel]

so he either is admitting he is a fotm andy doing less damage than an outlaw rogue

[bright crane]

Tell him sounds like an excuse for sucking

[vivid vessel]

or that he has played druid forever and is just bad at the game

[keen belfry]

idk how i always get these weirdos im so good at it

maybe its me?

[vivid vessel]

which one is it

[dawn talon]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

[bright crane]

“That’s a lot of words to say you aren’t good”

[past falcon]

hes a fotm

he had 1400 io in df season 2 🙂

[cold jewel]

damn you got him crashing out frfr

[wary wind]

i am so good player PLEASE FEED MY EGO MORE

[vivid vessel]

we are getting nerfed just cause outalw is doing damage in low keys right

gg

[bright crane]

Probably

I doubt it

[wary wind]

14 is so high 😄

[bright crane]

Sin still bis for bleeding edge keys no?

[vivid vessel]

ye of course

i mean even in low keys sin does the same damage

[keen belfry]

i think this is all i got

[gaunt phoenix]

they are more likely to tune based on the more popular keys

[vivid vessel]

what does this mean

[cold jewel]

he means lower keys

(10-12s)

[gaunt phoenix]

they are more likely to tune based on low keys

[cold jewel]

the ones that more people are doing

[vivid vessel]

thgey nerfed dk tho

and buff paladin

[dawn talon]

if they were going to nerf something for key too lowing people

[polar kelp]

Wait are we actually getting nerfed? Or is Zac just saying shit to freak us out

[fallen knot]

dk nerf is basically a joke

[dawn talon]

marks would be in the dirt by now

[light kernel]

best note to get into key as outlaw? kekw

[fallen knot]

it's half on a rng spell

[cold jewel]

half the pop plays pally

[dawn talon]

i doubt we get nerfed for being good in weekly keys

[cold jewel]

it has to be good

[gaunt phoenix]

happened before

[cold jewel]

it happened literally last season

[vivid vessel]

happens litteraly every season

[cold jewel]

and then got reverted

[fallen knot]

also

legit

[vivid vessel]

during the first weeks

[cold jewel]

[vivid vessel]

so

[dawn talon]

yeah i mean like late season

[wary wind]

yea first week of raid we got nerfed kekw

[dawn talon]

early season sometimes they panic nerf people

for 0

[fallen knot]

it's fine if a hardcapped full of bugs spec is kind of stronger on weekly keys is it not

[cold jewel]

imagine nerfing a spec and their aoe hits dead targets

[gaunt phoenix]

We dont have bugs anymore

[fallen knot]

that

we know of

[vivid vessel]

0

[cinder relic]

Me when I'm in a professional victim competition and my opponent in #outlaw

[vivid vessel]

!

[dawn talon]

#balance winning every time

imo

[cold jewel]

it's what we do best

[patent mirage]

why is it that everytime outlaw gets a bit good people talk about nerfs

[cold jewel]

wait is guy a boomie apologist?

it would make sense tbh

[cinder relic]

Cuz when outlaw is good, its like the best spec in the game in noob keys

[dawn talon]

yeah

[fallen knot]

and

[dawn talon]

if you're a weekly 10 andy it probably looks like you just turned on god mode

[fallen knot]

is it actually good now or is it playable like it should be

[dawn talon]

ur spec kills every smallie before other people press anything and ur invulnerable to damage

[patent mirage]

i dont think you can say outlaw is broken now though

[vivid vessel]

Me when outlaw hit alive targets instead of dead ones

[ripe ibex]

zac can you share your switch oh wa

[vivid vessel]

I can only talk about high keys but imo it's def in the top 10 spec

[fallen knot]

yea but like even blood dk feels like god in weekly keys no

doesnt it deal a fuckton of damage

[dawn talon]

i think it easily slots into the good comps

and does good damage

pretty good

[vivid vessel]

I don't think so, cause cd specs are mega weird in low keys

[past falcon]

in pug 15s and 16s ive been top dps (excluding cinderbew). obviously pug keys so can be skill diff, but ya outlaw feels rlly solid

[dawn talon]

i mean idk i always gap pugs even when the spec sucks

but yeah feels good rn

[placid gorge]

I dont want vanish in my rotation!!!

[polar kelp]

After the fix, what's your guys highest overall on a decent key? I hit this yesterday in a priory 14..
New record for me

[cold jewel]

think of it as something other than vanish then idk

[vivid vessel]

Not really true you cannot play outlaw mage and you need a resto shaman

[fallen knot]

now imagine if

that warrior were another outlaw

and that dh were to be a warrior

[placid gorge]

For real, will they ever remove that thing?

[fallen knot]

the shaman

a druid

and the druid another outlaw

[dawn talon]

ye but moonkin dk rogue is fine

[fallen knot]

or a monk

[bright crane]

Arcane and ol seem like not a good combo to begin with. 2 capped specs

[past falcon]

nah windfury totem

[placid gorge]

Isnt enhance is another outlaw?

[polar kelp]

We did a 15 floodgate with 3 outlaw yesterday and timed it

[vivid vessel]

Ye but you can only do that with resto

[cold jewel]

remove what? vanish?

[cinder relic]

📸

[vivid vessel]

Which isn't easy lol

[cold jewel]

just untalent crackshot king

[fallen knot]

not really

high paced, not like outlaw and definitely different playstyle

[placid gorge]

Just make rotation not depend on it

[cold jewel]

yeah, like i said, just untalent ace and crackshot

[vivid vessel]

Went up 5 spots after I played keys with new outlaw this weekend

[patent mirage]

outlaw has been using vanish for a long time

[cold jewel]

you can play it just fine in ur weekly 10s without those 2 talents

[placid gorge]

Fair

[untold yarrow]

since df rework

[cinder relic]

No

[patent mirage]

nop

[gaunt phoenix]

mrdann resurrected from the dead

[cinder relic]

The only time vanish WASNT part of outlaw was BFA

[leaden folio]

cant wait blizzard buff dmg of KS again to force us to play it on ST too

[cinder relic]

In legion, SL, DF, and TWW, it's been about vanish

[cold jewel]

DF season 1 it wasn't, was it?

[dawn talon]

even before it was outlaw it was hitting vanish rotationally

[untold yarrow]

???

[placid gorge]

I drop by yes, will resub when i get my stuff in order

[cinder relic]

twas

[cold jewel]

i dont remember vanish being important that season

[cinder relic]

DF season 1 was HO

[untold yarrow]

yeah

[gaunt phoenix]

early DF you used vanish to continue the HO loop when the loop broke

[fallen knot]

twas a cat

[cold jewel]

ah ok

i c

it's been a long time

i forgor

[cinder relic]

Vanish has literally been a part of outlaw since its inception

[gaunt phoenix]

actually awesome rule

[placid gorge]

It really has been

[cinder relic]

1 expansion vanish was not good for outlaw

[placid gorge]

Bfa?

[cinder relic]

Correct

In BFA There was 0 incentive to use vanish

[cold jewel]

but like, in ur mind just imagine it's not vanish and something that enables a damage window

[cinder relic]

Only time in the specs history

[placid gorge]

Thats my good ol day right there

[gaunt phoenix]

Bfa classic when

[daring oxide]

when outlaw Mid-expansion Retrospective article wowhead?

[gaunt phoenix]

[cold jewel]

are they making all specs do one?

[daring oxide]

@cinder relic

[gaunt phoenix]

of course they are

[cinder relic]

Eventually

[untold yarrow]

tldr outlaw do good in 10 therefore good spec

[cold jewel]

i didnt know if it was something someone took upon themselves or if is was like a thing

[daring oxide]

can we get a sneak peak

[cold jewel]

good to know

[gaunt phoenix]

i see

[placid gorge]

Who started it?

[wicked obsidian]

the issue with outlaw is properly that not every fomi player can easily switch to it and make good damage. they prefer that 3 button classes like retri are op...

[untold yarrow]

SL A tier?

who made this

????

??????????

[cold jewel]

idk

[gaunt phoenix]

you moved wrath to bad

[cold jewel]

someone here probably does tho

[untold yarrow]

DF in Bad?

???

[cold jewel]

i have been out of the loop this tier

[restive obsidian]

i liked outlaw in dragonflight until 10.2

[dawn talon]

🤝 wrath glazing has gone too far

[cold jewel]

not keeping up with stuffs like i should

[placid gorge]

I might resub for legion classic

[leaden folio]

ragebait

[placid gorge]

Didnt play legion back then

[fallen knot]

mop>SL

and df wasnt that bad

[untold yarrow]

legion was goated

[gaunt phoenix]

guy did you play wrath

[cinder relic]

I played a small amount of wrath classic

[magic shuttle]

cata might be underrated

[cinder relic]

and my entire guild said it was the worst classic phase of all time so I moved it down

[placid gorge]

I was too young during Wrath

[red zinc]

DF is like definition of mid

nothing offensively bad happened

[cinder relic]

DF is when I almost quit the game so

[placid gorge]

Oh wrath classic? Lol

[patent mirage]

wrath was fun and easy at the same time

[fallen knot]

btw classic glazing is like mh all time players glazing the worst possible combat mechanics just because of nostalgia

[magic shuttle]

I think for it's time it brought many needed changes for the game

[cinder relic]

DF was good but I think TWW is just DF but better

[untold yarrow]

DF was MID only because S2 was so bad

S1 was fine

S3 was great

S2 was dogshit broken shit

[dawn talon]

wrath classic was substantially worse than wrath because the only enjoyable thing about wrath was the wacky unbalanced bullshit

[red zinc]

aberrussy

[fallen knot]

agreege

[placid gorge]

All i want is my swashbuckler class fantasy

[cold jewel]

S2 was good until god comp

[red zinc]

nah

[cinder relic]

DF just felt like nothing happened, world content sucked, the raids were all "okay", sub rogue has the worst spec design any spec in wow of all time has ever had

[untold yarrow]

so week 2?

[patent mirage]

i remember doing naxx 25 with tier 6 gear pog

[cold jewel]

actually had good variety until aug dropped

[placid gorge]

God comp wot?

[red zinc]

that raid made me want to gouge my eyes out

[cinder relic]

Talent trees were cool but I think hero talents are just better

TWW just feels like DF but better

[cold jewel]

aug,mage,priest,holypal,veng i think?

not sure what tank it was

[gaunt phoenix]

Ok sub in df i can see

[untold yarrow]

i quit raiding and the game on skarn progress

[cold jewel]

but it was something like that

[untold yarrow]

plus m+ was unplayable

[cinder relic]

Shadowdust sub rogue is actually the worst designed spec of all time

I'm so happy its dead

[fallen knot]

didnt play s2 df so for me df was good

[magic shuttle]

df had a weak theme I feel

[red zinc]

not that thats a negative thing

[cinder relic]

I would've rerolled off rogue if dust still existed

[fallen knot]

yesyesyesyeysysyeyeyysyyes

i hate it

i

[red zinc]

but i think the next 2 expansions will be very similar to this one

[placid gorge]

Damn we are on a memory trip huh

[red zinc]

so i guess thats nice

[untold yarrow]

wasnt dust just skill issue

[fallen knot]

hate

it

hated it

[magic shuttle]

like tww is probably DF 2.0 but the theme carries it so hard

[fallen knot]

will hate

no dust was

[cold jewel]

it was but people still hated it

[fallen knot]

look up spreadsheet

[cold jewel]

even if you were good at it, it wasn't really all that fun

[cinder relic]

Dust was a spreadsheet spec that required you to respreadsheet based on kill timers

[glass mortar]

i think

[fallen knot]

press cd when sheet says press cd

[gaunt phoenix]

Dont you think legion onward has broadly been the same under ion's direction

[viscid forge]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[placid gorge]

That sound stressful af

[verbal fjord]

Do i press BF on st too with KiR

?

[cinder relic]

It wasn't stressful it was just boring

[gaunt phoenix]

No

[magic shuttle]

no

[glass mortar]

classic classic and classic BC both sorta had a unique experience because the game just wasnt that optimized back then and playing it in a fully optimized way was interesting

[verbal fjord]

perfect

[fallen knot]

also legion yes was goated, but i probably removed from my brain the bad parts

[glass mortar]

wotlk was largely optimized even during the expac tho

[cold jewel]

i dont think ive ever spent as much time on lorgs as I did with dust sub and i only played it for 1 boss (tindral)

[glass mortar]

and also raid bosses hadnt really been brought into the modern era yea

[fallen knot]

like rng legendary and badluck NOT protection

[surreal latch]

Loved legion even if it made me reroll three times due to always getting the worst legendaries

[light dune]

for the offhand mace is it just better at 2 target and up or is 2 target kinda nebulous

[placid gorge]

Mechanic wise, when was the turning point of this modern era?

[patent mirage]

icc hc was one of the easiest end raids ever

[untold yarrow]

not pre nerf xd

[placid gorge]

Do tell

[untold yarrow]

wait classic or original

[patent mirage]

original , i dont play the classics

[gaunt phoenix]

probably cata

[cold jewel]

@cinder relic what are your thoughts on bfa/legion (not sure which one it was since i didn't play then) outlaw having RtB as a finisher that used cps?

[untold yarrow]

yeah but it was ez after LK nerfs and the 10 or 15% buff

[cold jewel]

never got to experience it but looking forward to trying it whenever classic releases

[untold yarrow]

whatever you got weekly

[cinder relic]

I liked it

[placid gorge]

And what was the particular change??

[glass mortar]

yea cata bosses they really started to play around

[fallen knot]

prob bfa

[glass mortar]

the bosses get way interesting as we head more modern

[cinder relic]

I liked spam rerolling

[glass mortar]

rotations r still pretty basic

[placid gorge]

Like more elaborate group mechanic?

[glass mortar]

they step up alot into pandaria imo

[patent mirage]

using cps for rtb was lame

[placid gorge]

I wonder if they ever look at destiny raid design

Well not exactly the same cause its a small group activity over there

But who knows whats in the head of dev when they design those encounters

[cold jewel]

they actually kinda did that this tier with mythic gally

[untold yarrow]

destiny raids

are

cooked

[cold jewel]

no journal just had to learn it as you go, like Destiny raids

Destiny blind raids are fun af and i will die on this hill

take 5 of your buddies and run through it without knowing mechs and its always a good time

[placid gorge]

Sure if u have an evening to kill

[cold jewel]

well yeah, but we are wow players, so we kill evenings on repeat

[green crown]

BFA was peak outlaw, come at me

[cold jewel]

not much different

[craggy barn]

blind raiding is fun, esp with a lower player count. the more people u have it can get a bit frustrating/people can get impatient

[cold jewel]

agreed

[craggy barn]

like 10 man blind wow raids can be fun, but more than that can get weird

u kinda do that with early m+ in a season

[placid gorge]

M+ is a solved problem after first season? At least boss mechanic wise

Routing will take a bit

[glass mortar]

tfw ur trying to find the dangerous new mythic mechanics on gally blind

tfw its just herioc gally with harder tuning

[placid gorge]

So just harder number

[cold jewel]

nothing happens past 40%

[glass mortar]

and different ability sequencing

[cold jewel]

"just game"

[glass mortar]

its a neat idea

it was wasted on gally imo

at the end when they were just waiting for the thing to happen

and then nothing happened

for 20% boss hp

[cold jewel]

i dont think it would ever work with wow tho tbh. people are too used to relying on public knowledge/guides to clear raids in wow. nobody really goes in blind

[glass mortar]

i mean it could work for the race

obviously post race

it would all be known

its cool to see the racers need to work their strat on the fly as they discover new mechanic timings

[cold jewel]

like no one besides liquid actually "progged it", if that makes sense

[glass mortar]

ye

[cold jewel]

it kinda doesn't but i dont know how else to phrase it

[glass mortar]

that is i guess a bit of a issue, but idk if its even an issue

[placid gorge]

Echo is still a thing?

[glass mortar]

the team in the lead would have the disadvantage

would probably make the race closer

[untold yarrow]

joined +10

wiping first boss TOP

this game

[cold jewel]

okay, liquid and echo

[placid gorge]

Lolll