outlaw

[gaunt phoenix]

they should be similar overall

lately KIR should pull ahead at bigger pulls

but lose some bosses/low pulls

and i mean HO vs KIR 2 FTH

KIR 1 FTH is probably winning overall of every key

but 1 FTH is actually hard

i dont think i can play it like sim does

trickster optimizations are really important there

[prime umbra]

Alright, thanks 🙂

HO is all around easier to play yeah?

[gaunt phoenix]

ya

[runic bough]

ummm guys

the proc isnt based on less dmg

its based on how many times u vanish

1 vanish = proc

[tender wedge]

Are we giving up 1FTH to get PC?

[heady bronze]

What makes 1 FTH so much harder then 2 FTH and HO, if you dont mind me asking? I am rather new to outlaw so I just wanna have a rough understanding of why

[gaunt phoenix]

ya or GS

[tender wedge]

Ouch, fair enough

[heady bronze]

I checked the faq is it the stricter rule set for FTH at rank 1?

[gaunt phoenix]

its just different / unconventional rules to get used to

Pistol shot rule is offset by 1cp, so you pistol shot at <= 2cp during broadside and <= 4cp without broadside

And pistol shot giving less CP will confuse your brain for a bit

and trickster optimizations become super relevant, where you prioritize sinister strike if you have a guaranteed unseen blade proc, you are constantly watching this WA

you can certainly get used to it, it's all zac plays, but you will have several keys where you are hitting the wrong globals a lot

[heady bronze]

Thanks for the response! I will have to give it a try while keeping what you mentioned and the faq in mind.

[gaunt phoenix]

and by nature of the build, you have less natural CPs to work with, some mistakes can cause you to lose AR quickly

[random stirrup]

is the WA showing something beyond the next 2 ss after ks having a guaranteed unseen blade?

havent played much outlaw this tier but playing sub it doesnt seem too hard to remember

[final grail]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[gaunt phoenix]

it shows the 2 after ks and if the 20s timer is crossed

[random stirrup]

ah ye the 20s timer might be hard

[gaunt phoenix]

the 20s timer is usually not crossed unless you are unlucky

Or traveling between packs

[trail star]

old but gold https://www.twitch.tv/jpctheman_/clip/KitschyRelievedArmadilloGingerPower-gLMqOwA3KXjA1M-C

[runic bough]

guys

new mace

makes fatebound playable

in keys

that purple splash is way more

thank god

no ks

until they take it away

vanish way more in fatebound than trickster

[gaunt phoenix]

no you don't

[runic bough]

more procs make up for unseen blades im thinking

bro did u not see my 7% procs

and

4% in tricksters

or lower

[gaunt phoenix]

the mace doesnt magically do more dmg

[tender wedge]

i think what solo is trying to say is

if it did 50% of your damage, that doesn't mean it's even better as fate

it means you're playing worse and it's making up the gap lol

[haughty wigeon]

i believe in ryu

his cooks

[gaunt phoenix]

you don't vanish more often as fatebound

[haughty wigeon]

are the future

[gaunt phoenix]

if anything Coup makes you vanish more often as trickster

[runic bough]

welp either way I have more procs in fatebound

check my meter again

i will log on again to compare

[gaunt phoenix]

you are just typing nonsense again

[runic bough]

sec

[hollow temple]

when you do less damage with your spells, the % of mace damage goes up

when you do more damage with your spells, the % of mace damage goes down

[cinder relic]

[runic bough]

stop destroying my dreams playing no ks with fatebound

[hollow temple]

this is how percentages work

[gaunt phoenix]

and fatebound makes you deal significantly less damage

with your spells

[runic bough]

[fickle carbon]

what's up amigos, i'm new to outlaw looking for m+ outlaw specialist kind of content creators

any recommendations

streams/youtube etc

[gaunt phoenix]

zac !

[runic bough]

this bullshit is rigged?!

[gaunt phoenix]

tomelvis

[tender wedge]

he's all that's left isn't he

[hollow temple]

few and far between right now

[tender wedge]

everyone else succumbed to the lure of the daggies

[hollow temple]

zac_______________ is one of the only ppl streaming outlaw lately

[runic bough]

There was an outlaw genecide in TWW.

[fickle carbon]

zac and tomelvis?

[runic bough]

same person

[gaunt phoenix]

tomelvis is his character name

[fickle carbon]

i think i might have found their youtube

https://www.youtube.com/@zac__________________________3/streams this?

[hollow temple]

ye

[gaunt phoenix]

[novel socket]

why do you have that

[gaunt phoenix]

why not

[novel socket]

fair enough

i got whisp

[gaunt phoenix]

nice

[fickle carbon]

thanks amigos

i'll look them up on twitch too

[gaunt phoenix]

@vivid vessel gained a viewer

[vivid vessel]

Huge

[hollow temple]

[gaunt phoenix]

:zack:

[cinder relic]

https://tenor.com/view/poes-die-zich-uitstrekt-op-mysims-gif-4169233506206149689

[vivid vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-meow-silly-cat-cat-explode-yellow-cat-gif-12654556298327310612

[cinder relic]

https://tenor.com/view/glorp-explosion-gif-7138394752046712707

[brisk meadow]

Zac and Guy my favourite Ravenholdt couple

[quaint wharf]

[haughty wigeon]

why dont you

[shut lichen]

https://tenor.com/view/community-ken-jeong-ben-chang-cant-see-small-gif-5154350

[radiant fiber]

!PREKEY

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB as you enter the dungeon to get 2 Supercharger stacks.
• DO NOT RTB again inside the bubble as you will lose the supercharger stacks, similarly do not AR early inside the bubble or you will lose the combo points.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open on pack with AR into BtE.

[delicate seal]

[wintry solar]

This is why we sim

[icy cedar]

is the mace in simcraft yet

[runic bough]

WHO NEEDS A SIM

WHEN YOU DONT HAVE TO KS

fatebound is obviously the choice with mace

RAAAAH

btw guys

did I say fatebound doesnt have ks?

[vivid vessel]

Ye I'm blocking you

I have had enough

[runic bough]

alright zac

nice knowing you

[unkempt dew]

Kanye?

[icy cedar]

I don't understand Fatebound conceptually. As an archetype, the only fiction character I can think of that's a rogue cursed by Fate is... Mat from Wheel of Time?

And the dude uses a spear! He isn't even a real rogue except for gambling.

Our hero trees are just terrible thematically.

We need totally new ones, but idk what

[delicate seal]

it can have ks

uhuh

[runic bough]

today we lost a hero

[delicate seal]

underhanded upper tactics

[runic bough]

Zac has blocked me guys, I lost my hero.

because i dont want to play ks

[wintry solar]

I get the Fatebound archetype. A person in charge of someone's fate at the flip of a coin is pretty neat imo

[wintry solar]

And nothing of value was lost

[icy cedar]

Huh like the villain from No Country for Old Men? Is he a rogue? I guess he is, I suppose

[runic bough]

im on druid rn

[icy cedar]

Where's my between the eyes cattle gun skin

[wintry solar]

Wouldn't matter, there's no one to make the glyph

[icy cedar]

pressing buttons?

[wintry solar]

Proper usage of vanish

Subterfuge

[icy cedar]

staying in stealth between pressing buttons

[fluid meadow]

someone listed +14 keys details with 2% ks dmg, so u really don't need to press ks at that level too just play it but don't press

[runic bough]

popo

[wintry solar]

Yeah

Stupid cdr

[runic bough]

we should make a vanish spam build for mace

[wintry solar]

You speak French now

?

Kidding

[runic bough]

hmm

[wintry solar]

I have an alt rogue that could use it

[runic bough]

ace is a must

[wintry solar]

Yeah I'm gonna get it

[runic bough]

theres nothing else to increase vanish uses

lol

[wintry solar]

Yeah

Sub stole it

Well with cp gen being the way it is rn

There's not really much room for it

[vivid vessel]

!uuh

[ornate heath]

Underhanded Upper Hand

• Stealth/Subterfuge/Dance maintains ADR buff
• ADR buff maintains Blade Flurry buff
  If you are seeing very long buff timer (20 min type of stuffs), that's because Blizzard does not actually "freeze" buffs but instead slow them down a lot.

[wintry solar]

I played the ptr build with crackshot and DB and personally I thought it was the best iteration I've ever played

[patent mirage]

what if we got acticipation , idk if it could work now

[wintry solar]

I think it was Solo that said current outlaw would like it

I like Anticipation

HO could def use it

[patent mirage]

shadow teq is similar

you store cps

[cinder relic]

its an extension of "Gambler"

Which you know... Is outlaw

I think it's fine if it just had cooler visuals

[patent mirage]

remember dreadblades , they were supposed to be a rune like weapon

that was cursed

[wintry solar]

Yeah

Even cursed the crew of the captain that wielded them.

[hollow temple]

no

[patent mirage]

they could rework gsw to the greed trait of dreadblades

[cinder relic]

Greed sure gets talked about a lot of a talent that didnt do anything

[wintry solar]

I was thinking the same thing

[vivid vessel]

I LOVE OUTLAW

DELETE KS

[patent mirage]

i mean smth about doing splash dmg

[icy cedar]

i wouldn't mind the healing back. my healers constantly complain "you take so much damage!" but i'm at the bottom of damage taken. All these other classes just got packed full of self-healing and leech by their hero talents.

[wintry solar]

Ah I remember now

[icy cedar]

And we're sitting here totally reliant on external heals to get back up

[cinder relic]

That is a weakness of rogue yes

But also, use leech enchants

press vial

[wintry solar]

Vanish as well

[icy cedar]

im soothing my darkness as hard as i can

[wintry solar]

So true

[icy cedar]

ill hold vanish on candle king for when the candles up

just to soothe harder

[wintry solar]

I think a lot of people forget that legion dreadblades is almost exactly like subs Shadow Blades is right now

Increased dmg included

[cinder relic]

Yeah and whats crazy is that OUtlaw had dreadblades for years and it was garbage

Was weak in legion, was weak in BFA, was weak in SL outside of 1 build in pre season

Was weak in DF outside of KiR builds when it had 100% uptime

[patent mirage]

db was re added in sl as a bandaid talent

[cinder relic]

o right it didnt exist in BFA

[wintry solar]

Was removed in bfa

[vivid vessel]

what did it bandaid

[cinder relic]

Got added in SL and was bad

[patent mirage]

they re added db the very last moment

[wintry solar]

Personally I always used it but that's just me.

I've always found it fun

[patent mirage]

when they brought fth , db was bound to go away

[wintry solar]

Fth, ace, etc

Sigh

[cinder relic]

But it was shit in SL without those

Like 10-15% worse shit

[hollow temple]

What was the trade off

[cinder relic]

alac

[wintry solar]

Alac

[patent mirage]

we had mfd during sl anyway

[hollow temple]

Those times towards the end of SL were like the best outlaw builds ever

[patent mirage]

rc dust yes

[hollow temple]

RC dust, Venthyr blunderbuss, etc

[haughty wigeon]

there was

a venthyr dreadblades lego build

that was decent

[wintry solar]

Gsw

[haughty wigeon]

as well

[vivid vessel]

Venthyr bb was the most boring shit ever idk what the big deal is with that

It was litteraly a 2 button build

[haughty wigeon]

it was funge

[patent mirage]

proto form of fth

[hollow temple]

It just felt smooth as fuck and fun

[haughty wigeon]

it also made sense with the tier set

[wintry solar]

You're coming into a time where all combat/outlaw has been ever is baseline efficient building and spending so that's all people knew at the time.

[haughty wigeon]

theme wise

and design wise

[wintry solar]

Outlaw never had depth

[vivid vessel]

?

[wintry solar]

And people liked it

[haughty wigeon]

i wouldnt say that either

[wintry solar]

Was fast

[vivid vessel]

Every build in SL was more involved than BB venthyr

Litteraly

[haughty wigeon]

if outlaw didnt have depth in sl then every spec didnt have depth in sl

[patent mirage]

rc dust was fun

[vivid vessel]

Idk what you are saying rn

[haughty wigeon]

bb venthyr was just fun

[wintry solar]

Let me rephrase

[haughty wigeon]

[wintry solar]

It didn't have a lot of depth

[patent mirage]

ofc it depends on how you define fun

[haughty wigeon]

more pistol shots ment more tier set procs

which ment more bte

gun the spec

[wintry solar]

I wish we could've done double leggo

[haughty wigeon]

outlaw is at its funnest when its just "gun"

[wintry solar]

Not unity

[patent mirage]

we could use more gun talents tbh\

[haughty wigeon]

hence why crackshot is loved by people who know how to outlaw

heck i love crackshot too

its fun

gun

pewpew

[hollow temple]

Pressing sinister strike boring

[wintry solar]

It's reacting to a proc that refills combo points

[hollow temple]

https://tenor.com/view/ot-movie-cat-gun-bang-gif-9889809122388915984

[haughty wigeon]

https://tenor.com/view/gatling-gun-shoot-them-heavy-weapons-big-gun-ammo-gif-18134044

legit venthyr bb felt like that

[patent mirage]

crackshot is like this

https://tenor.com/view/terminator-winchester-trigger-arnold-schwarzenegger-gun-winchester-arnold-schwarzenegger-gif-17130125

[haughty wigeon]

more gun talent pls blizzard

make ps replace ss

completely and utterly

we duel wield pistol weapons

like hopw havoc has its own weapon class

[wintry solar]

Project ascension does that btw

It's almost exactly what you want

Defias Gunslinger

[patent mirage]

ah yes the clint eastwood build

[vivid vessel]

some iterations of outlaw in sl were litteraly harder than now

just saying

[wintry solar]

Dustlaw?

[patent mirage]

imagine ks cd with dust

[wintry solar]

5 second CD prolly

[runic bough]

my druid got 6 sparks

why my rogue only have 4

'

5

maybe

[patent mirage]

you dont roll the bones of luck hard enough

[runic bough]

true

[patent mirage]

replace all your buttons with rtb and spam it

[wintry solar]

I'm gonna miss the rtb spam

Next tier

[runic bough]

why

rtb was never fun

[patent mirage]

thats a good point

[runic bough]

just a requirement like ks

[wintry solar]

Who are you to tell me what I think is fun?

[runic bough]

my tank druid is 632 and can solo 8 delves like pie

[wintry solar]

Hmm?

Hmm?

[runic bough]

yeah

I could have gotten free champ gears all this time

[wintry solar]

Yeah thats what I thought >.>

[runic bough]

[wintry solar]

Catch 🧨

[vivid vessel]

@fathom bramble ks on mug

i guess cause you skip third bomb set aswell now

so less annoying ?

[fathom bramble]

it's just so much more damage even if you skip KS a lot

fatebound is losing a ton on every bomb set and the add anyway

[vivid vessel]

Ye I see that

The boss damage is way ahead for tou

But last I played ks I did a few mistakes and it titled me

[fathom bramble]

I think it was better on prog too

fair

[vivid vessel]

will try next reclear

should be better now that we skip third bomb

[fathom bramble]

I think I got rank 1 on it so it's definitely quite good

yeah 19 casts in 7 minutes is definitely not ideal

there was also a pull where I died to the tank cone since a 10cp KS lasts longer than the cast time

and I didn't look at my timers 👌

[vivid vessel]

and you are ho

cheat didnt work?

[fathom bramble]

cheat worked, but the dot lasts a while

[vivid vessel]

[fathom bramble]

and I used cloak too early so it stunned me for 30 seconds

I forgot tanks immune the stun at the end of the debuff

[vivid vessel]

ok imma get r1

im tired of having a purple on this boss

[brisk meadow]

Mindset

[fathom bramble]

I had pulls that were on track to do much better than this

lots of room above my log

[wintry solar]

He got his head chopped off

By Tyrande

[vivid vessel]

Alright

Maybe I gave up trickster too fast

[haughty wigeon]

shit man dustlaw was fun and hard

[vivid vessel]

The last death where I died to stagger bug + the middle room beam

[haughty wigeon]

im washed

[fathom bramble]

watch fight timers and send lower CP KSes during the lightning circles

[vivid vessel]

Kinda got to me

[fathom bramble]

understandable

[vivid vessel]

Ah ye true I have to think about the lighting circles

[fathom bramble]

could also just send it

[vivid vessel]

Tho I think I just survive anyway with cheat if bad things happens there

[fathom bramble]

and RNG not into a circle

[vivid vessel]

I was sending it

Never got stunned

Im just banking on cheat death during that phase

[fathom bramble]

just be aware that you will eventually KS with a line or a cone on you

and your guild will notice

[vivid vessel]

my guild already noticed

On gally

[icy hare]

Use Killing spree with the frontal that you hit the mobs with and it’s tacticool

[vivid vessel]

Guys dw about it

Landing soon

[wintry solar]

(He pressed KS with super high ping)

[magic shuttle]

pressin supercharger killing spree in the nightfall scenario takes you places

[hidden bay]

legitimately can go make a coffee come back and still be ksing

[runic bough]

!up

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1346745738532491296/New_Project.jpg

[light dune]

does clearing the bombs from the harpoon guys in floodgate aoe out damage

im worried my killing spree got someone else killed 😬

[runic bough]

did they take damage from the bombs

or

just you

?

if they took dmg maybe it hurts them too

[empty elbow]

Holy shit just bricked my 17 because my Roll the bones would not press on my hotkey

I was spamming my fucking 3 key

and it would not press my roll the bones

has anyone had this happen where the button would not press??

[runic bough]

your spell que was lagging

or you were pressing the wrong key

[empty elbow]

aint no way i was only pressing the button adn my other spells were working just fine

[runic bough]

spell que has been less responsive in TWW.

[fiery timber]

reload/relogging should fix it.Sometimes i cant press l or j or k dont know why and then i need to reload oder relog

[runic bough]

many downgrades in this expansion

[fiery timber]

orc esc didnt work either once for me

[runic bough]

I would call it a TWW feature

[empty elbow]

Appreciate this, but yeah it started working 40 seconds into the pull of cinderbrew

i just have no fucking clue why it didnt at the start

[runic bough]

ouch

yeah that would have pissed me off too

I have had my spell que slow down, but not stop working on me.

its just delayed

I cant explain it

so

[delicate seal]

its posisble u have a modifier down too maybe

[fiery timber]

yeah for now im mainly mage in raid and when im playing my rogue after i play mage im clipping so many shit on my rogue because of spellqwindow

[hidden bay]

feeling this so bad in raid

casting ss ages after i spammed that button

when i want to press a finisher

[light dune]

I took like 4.7 Mil dmg from killing spree when popping bombs but my tank took 19 mil damage from seaforum charge

Idk if it's like if you're close to a popped bomb u take dmg but idk why my dmg taken would be so low and he gets one shot

[runic bough]

yeah well ks is bad all around ability

its either you play it and die all the time or play fatebound with less damage and live.

[light dune]

I had evasion rolling does that dodge those bombs like workshop I wonder

And that's why I took barely anything?

Idk maybe tank just ran into bombs on his own

[runic bough]

bombs are fire damage id assume, ud have to cloak beforehand

[light dune]

Yah they are ill try to find a clip of me popping them

[runic bough]

i forgot

to go cheat death

with trickster

but still

im playing fatebound for the meantime

the mace is nice offhand

aoe is lowered but still do enough for vault keys.

and should be enough for 12-13's

I just wanna hit 3k rating

[light dune]

I think evasion dodged the bomb pop dmg for me but the tank was too close or something idk really whats happening

is it another just dont KS angle

[runic bough]

yeah thats a no ks angle lol

tell tank to move adds

away from bombs

[vivid vessel]

[runic bough]

i saw that tooo

ks activated all the bombs basically

[light dune]

KS does 5 mil damage to me and tank takes 20 mil dmg

[runic bough]

⚠️

[light dune]

i aped your weakaura I like stressing the healers out

[runic bough]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[vivid vessel]

I think the range of explosion is relatively small

If they are not next to bomb

But idk

[light dune]

are u holding KS in this timeline or just tank move

i feel like its rare for THAT to happen idk

[balmy spade]

can we evasion the frontal of the first boss in dfc?

[light dune]

its not something i consider that much honestly i thought bombs didnt do aoe

[light dune]

yes

@vivid vessel do you swap between cheat and elusiveness dungeon by dungeon or have a preference for one of em?

running cheat sounds quite scary on something like DFC Candle King

[inland acorn]

My personal best

[vivid vessel]

I run cheat till I cannot anymore

Ks is just too shit

What I noticed is

16 rookery you need elus for mobs before second boss

[red zinc]

for which mobs

the charges?

[vivid vessel]

Big bl pack

You have double dot + the bolt

[red zinc]

oh yeah wait the bolt isnt aoe

[vivid vessel]

17+ ws i often cheat death on the dogs dot

[red zinc]

its a circle around you to chain it

[vivid vessel]

but

[red zinc]

i forget

[vivid vessel]

ws without cheat is a nono for me

[blissful idol]

ws =?

[vivid vessel]

Top 17/18 the bolts from the guys in gorechop one shot me without elus

Workshop

[blissful idol]

i see

[vivid vessel]

cinderbrew, 17+ too many dots and casts going through i just die without elus

Priory is similar shit, the first packs you can have a bunch of cast go through if you ain't Boomie + dh

I die without elus

And dot one shot in 18 legit

From like the guy that jumps

Or girl idk

Either dot one shot I think

Like bam bam dead

[blissful idol]

if u press ks u just die i think

on psf i mean

[vivid vessel]

Flood swamp face is mega scary but I lived it fine in 17 still

Dfc same

The healing boss is scary but I lived fine in 18

Motherlode idk

Bunch of bolts can go through aswell

in 18 i get one shot by a bolt

[viral tusk]

even going full versa, I don't know how Assa rogues survive

[vivid vessel]

they play elus lol

[blissful idol]

elus is great, u perma evas and feint

and u feel super safe

40% dr or?

[vivid vessel]

@light dune hope this helps you

if it wasnt for ks i would be perma elus

[red zinc]

i already play ks too conservatively so

might as well elus

[light dune]

Ty for WS in particular cheat sounds so nice actually

Like machinist garden

Yuck

Or last boss

[steep rampart]

I've noticed that when I use Vanish followed by Geargrinder's Spare Keys, Subterfuge doesn't activate at all—similar to the old stealth bug days. Can someone else verify this, please?

[vivid vessel]

ye just be aware that you will legit always die on dogs

are you dwarf

[light dune]

No but I have a lock in my group double dispel action?

Sprocket

[vivid vessel]

Nice I guess

[light dune]

For DFC my deaths are mainly like BONK into flame with the candle pulls

I'm so aggro with KSing

Cheat would help with that

Cloak luring flame should be enough and just pray healer heal for first boss?

And candle king?

[vivid vessel]

I have no issues with dfc other than the healer boss

And even then I survived in 18 without elus and it was fine honestly

[light dune]

Wait running with lock is broken healthstone sustain!!!!

[steep rampart]

!stealth

!buggs

[inland acorn]

You can't use trinkets from stealth

It doesn't grant subterfuge

At least most trinkets, there are some exceptions I think

[steep rampart]

I see, i just read somewhere that stealth buggs were fixed

[light dune]

@vivid vessel thanks for the tips o7

[vivid vessel]

they are

appart from this one

[radiant fiber]

Zac did you ever tried HO or no?

[rotund zodiac]

[vivid vessel]

ye sure

i jsut dont like it

[fiery timber]

ho feels like as

if u compare

[polar niche]

guys for weapon enchant?

radiant of depths?

coz on the guide is depths

[covert kestrel]

#1276310705905336442 message

[tender wedge]

I usually find depths is barely ahead in ST and well behind in AoE and radiant power is well ahead in AoE and barely behind in pure ST so I pick radiant

Especially with this add heavy raid

[magic shuttle]

good to enchant to depths for sprocket prog tho

and later reenchant to authority

[empty elbow]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[empty elbow]

which WA is this one?

that says the damage out loud?

[vivid vessel]

bottom one

[empty elbow]

perfect ty bb

[reef forge]

@vivid vessel do you run cheat in 18 top?

[silk stirrup]

Outlaw kinda pumping after the bugfixes

[frank finch]

big dog

event mace?

[vivid vessel]

No I went elus

Otherwise I die from any bolt that goes through in the gorechop area

The lil jump goblins

[late swallow]

Im just gonna say that I perfect mechanics and cheat always went to waste. Yes it will come in handy if I'm tired but mostly not used at all. So I took elusive. Last words no cap.

[gaunt phoenix]

Idk how you play 1fth and are hyper aware of staying alive

gamer fr

[late swallow]

Zac is just unironically built diff

[vivid vessel]

Hm

Idk

Gaming?

Mostly ks that makes me unaware of stuffs

Cause well

It's like you turned off your screen for 3 sec

[reef forge]

will try, lets pray i don't int

[vivid vessel]

First key I did without cheat in top

I died from the dance on xav

Cause of ks

[reef forge]

i think i clipped one of your deaths to a jumper lol

looked super weird

[vivid vessel]

Which one

[reef forge]

https://www.twitch.tv/zac__________________/clip/AdventurousMagnificentBatM4xHeh-cNO018pxlzamp1R3

im bad at clipping but it was funny

[vivid vessel]

Ye well that's what I mean

I see this cast on me right

[reef forge]

thats with cheat?

[vivid vessel]

And I know I'm dead already

Cheat wasnt up

[reef forge]

no i mean like you're running cheat and not elus

what hp does it leave you at with eluse?

[vivid vessel]

Yes

[reef forge]

like 10%

[vivid vessel]

That's when I decided to never run cheat anymore

[vivid vessel]

20% with just feint up lol

Probably

And with feint + Eva

Prolly around 40

Like idk the diff is kinda big

[reef forge]

yeah majority of my keys have been with elus but i started dying in score keys and i felt terrible

so swapped

[vivid vessel]

Ye

[reef forge]

and immediately back to elus lol

[vivid vessel]

Well I have done the opposite

I play cheat till I can't anymore

Cause of ks

But now basically every 18 I cannot play cheat so..

Imma keep it for workshop forever tho fuck it

I will just die to the dogs everytime

It is what it is

[reef forge]

yeah just finished a workshop with it there

never felt safer

[vivid vessel]

You legit can die randomly on last boss from the stager bug

With every ks you press in p1

So

And on third boss

I get cancer everytime so

[fossil lintel]

When is it worth replacing the old season 1 tier?

[red zinc]

wait there's yet another raid dps increase from the renown outside the 18% aura buff?

jesus

idk how significant this is but damn

[gaunt phoenix]

2pc / 2pc should be better just from ilvl

[vivid vessel]

Really?

Where

[tranquil hemlock]

you guys are too strong for me

i think

i will play fatebound

and just enjoy life

[vivid vessel]

Noob

[tranquil hemlock]

oof

we've come to that point in the season

[fossil lintel]

ty solo

[tranquil hemlock]

where i realize i'm not even enjoying the game and i just play coz i have nothing else to do

[red zinc]

like what is this

[tranquil hemlock]

might as well just fill my vault doing 10s as fatebound

chillin

[frank finch]

yea i remember seeing that buffduing the renown bug

didnt work then tho

[red zinc]

still working on it kappa

[vivid vessel]

Weird

[sterile summit]

the third boss is a nightmare using ks

[late swallow]

R we gonna get a rogue retrospective

[shell fossil]

bte pistol skins?

[vague cape]

ye, they probably ask for it as part of the wowhead writer's paycheck

[gaunt phoenix]

Yes

guess what is on the outlaw wishlist

[silent marsh]

cannot be uncaping blade flurry

[vestal notch]

im gonna say killing spree rework

[late swallow]

Guy will prolly just glaze blizz in the writeup

And tweet his actual take later

[vivid vessel]

Nerf bf

[frank finch]

[vivid vessel]

Better mention the energy issues tho I'm getting tired of it now it's been too long of ignoring it

[frank finch]

haste tax better be in ther to

[late swallow]

He should ask it haste tax will be adjusted in accordance with trump’s tariff plan

The consumer (outlaw rogue player) pays the tariff!!!!!!

[vivid vessel]

bro the haste tax

i cba with this shit

its so annoying while gearing up

early tier

or when simming

i fucking hate it

[reef forge]

18 didn't go well but 17 damage was nice

[vivid vessel]

@gaunt phoenix thoughts?

[frail veldt]

Yeah tbh nerf adr energy gain and buff outside adr

Haste tax is brutal for people trying to play the spec for some funsies

[gaunt phoenix]

Not the biggest fan of tax there are surely better ways to make haste worth something

[late swallow]

Haste tax at the start of next xpac gonna feel like a banger

When everything gets reset

At least next tier we’ll be giga juiced in secondaries

[vivid vessel]

I think we should go back to having a bigger pool aswell

I think this is the biggest thing

[late swallow]

1k energy outlaw when?

[frail veldt]

Sure that would def help with random dry spells

[vivid vessel]

Cause SS GS is your entire energy bar in one gcd

[vivid vessel]

Bro Solo

[frail veldt]

Literally yeah

[vivid vessel]

You know that lately

[covert kestrel]

Vigor baseline

[vivid vessel]

I think that's part of trickster being less energy efficient idk

[late swallow]

Make vigor a 3 point node?

Thoughts?

[frail veldt]

No

[vivid vessel]

Lately I literally have moments where I have no energy WHILE IN ADR

[frail veldt]

Taking vigor kinda sucks lowkey

[vivid vessel]

It's crazy man

[gaunt phoenix]

ye ik

[vivid vessel]

Just stop

[late swallow]

Holy, 4 points????

[vivid vessel]

I just want energy if I'm playing properly

Is that too much to ask for

[frail veldt]

Nerf gs energy cost tbh

[fluid meadow]

• energy regen if gs is on the target

[frail veldt]

That's the big issue

It never happens outside of gs usage

Gs is SO expensive

Partly cuz off gcd

[frail veldt]

I think hurting target swapping more is annoying

[gaunt phoenix]

i dont use gs in keys lately

[late swallow]

Yeah they shouldn’t target lock outlaw more

[frail veldt]

I wouldn't even care if we lost adr uptime if outside of adr wasn't like moving in slow motion

[gaunt phoenix]

You have infinite energy to feint

[frail veldt]

It plays so much better without it

Genuinely the spec feels great without gs

[late swallow]

GS is just bad

Give that point back

[polar kelp]

I also stopped using it because of this reason alone

[gaunt phoenix]

okay i like gs

[late swallow]

I’ll take GSW or some shit

[gaunt phoenix]

i will defend it

[frail veldt]

It's just so boring now

I loved it when we had er

Now it's just a nothing button

[late swallow]

GS plus old ER was a banger

[frail veldt]

The extra little cp boost is nice

But yeah current GS just feels like an uninteractive button

[vivid vessel]

bro turned into foreverguy

[gaunt phoenix]

i like gs !

[vivid vessel]

one argument !

1 (one)

[frail veldt]

You like it but you aren't playing with it cuz it feels better not to?

So you like the idea of it more so than it's current implementation?

[gaunt phoenix]

i like the off gcd cps and prio

[frail veldt]

I do like that yeah

[vivid vessel]

Even the idea of it is annoying

[frail veldt]

It just feels bad right now idk

[vivid vessel]

Cp gen off GCD is cool

[frail veldt]

Agreed

[vivid vessel]

But it's legit 0 cp so

[polar kelp]

If feint costs no energy, that would fix GS in my opinion

[frail veldt]

Well sometimes it gets you to the finish condition in one less gcd than otherwise

[vivid vessel]

I do feel like a gamer when I SS > GS with pistol shot ready

[frail veldt]

So it feels great

But then you're at 0 energy

[late swallow]

GS inside of AR gives 2 CP, GS outside of AR takes away 1 cp. Thoughts?

[gaunt phoenix]

i like the mild skill expression of using it

[frail veldt]

Bruh

Don't make non adr worse

Wtf are you saying

[late swallow]

If you’re at 0 cp

You go into a CP deficit

Gotta regain the negative CP

Thoughts?

[frail veldt]

Okay ryu

[late swallow]

We need to make sure Guy gets this in the writeup

Does someone wanna start a google doc or???

[slate plaza]

How is the nightfall 658 weapon bis 😭

[obtuse hollow]

I have a /cast vanish /cast bte macro, but it would double cast vanish if i smash it more than once. If there a way to prevent it from vanishing twice?

[slate plaza]

Yes

I wouldn’t macro them but

[late swallow]

Outlaw resets the cantrip with vanish on trash

[slate plaza]

There’s smth u can add that won’t let you reclick for like 5 seconds

[late swallow]

Shit adds up!

[obtuse hollow]

What's the downside?

[late swallow]

You don’t want to do this btw

If you bte too soon, you can bug your subt window

And you won’t get the benefits of crackshot

[obtuse hollow]

Haven't happened to me before

It only happens if I bte in stealth iirc

[late swallow]

!bugs

[ornate heath]

[Outlaw bug Thread](#1276315296159760467 message)

[fluid meadow]

castsequence macro works to not press it twice

[frail veldt]

Well the one you literally just described haha

Is the downside

You can potentially prevent it with cast sequence macro

With a 6 second reset

[obtuse hollow]

No I have a separate bte button, I just have a separate one just for vanish bte

[late swallow]

Yeah tbh I don’t really see the gain of the macro :/

[frail veldt]

I'm not familiar with cast sequence syntax but I know it's possible

[frail veldt]

If you're worried about losing time in subterfuge it shouldn't matter cuz when you vanish you get to stay in stealth

So you don't have to minmax that timing tbh

[vague cape]

ye subterfuge doesn't start til you cast

[late swallow]

Ye ur not being forced out of stealth

And if there’s an aoe or mechanic, there’s a very generous grace period before you’re popped out

[vivid vessel]

unless you have a /startattack in your bte macro

[obtuse hollow]

So I'm the only one macroing vanish and bte

[frail veldt]

I do haha

[frail veldt]

Ye

We used to macro dance +bte a while back I think

[obtuse hollow]

Idk I just found it convenient to have them macroed so save me a button press

[frail veldt]

Or some people did

But it's just not that valuable

[late swallow]

/startattack
/cast Blind

[frail veldt]

Yeah you can prob get it working with a cast sequence macro to not accidentally use two charges

Buuuuut

Again it's not that valuable

So just preference

[vivid vessel]

for what

[frail veldt]

I thought you were the one who said you did

[vivid vessel]

no

i never use macros

[frail veldt]

Well back then if you danced too early in your gcd you could lose a cast

So you actually had to care and time it well

[vivid vessel]

And macroing bte into dance doesn't change that lol

[late swallow]

Zac literally had an internal metronome for outlaw gcds

[frail veldt]

Hey I didn't do it I just remember many who did

They didn't want to delay their first cast in dance

[vivid vessel]

i do

[frail veldt]

For the same reason of losing a potential cast

[torpid fiber]

I'm pretty sure we all do

[vivid vessel]

yours is bad

[late swallow]

Unironically this ^

Sorry I don’t make the rules

[torpid fiber]

yeah this is why my weakauras show gcd

and why I play 400 spellqueue

[vivid vessel]

[torpid fiber]

Both mean I can have a dogshit internal metronome

[obtuse hollow]

I guess this I'm pretty used to doing this, I also had one for sdance back then

[unkempt swift]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lusty sparrow]

Fellas, I've graduated to a kir enjoyer

[slate plaza]

Sometimes I send stealth just so adr doesn’t go down

And before I break stealth I might wanna rtb

[vivid vessel]

i vanish > rtb a lot

i like it

You gain one GCD it's cool

[late swallow]

Imagine doing that in DF

[silk stirrup]

and waita bit for energy

[hollow temple]

pugs are funny:
hunter dies in rook 3x to 1st boss, dk gets mad, dk says "ye nah.. gonna replace" , i get kicked out of the group, realized the hunter is his premade friend.

So someone else messes up the run and YOU as a rogue get kickedxD

[sweet yoke]

stupid question but with the weapon swap macro and my oh on outlaw st is a 678 dagger which I have 2 of in my bags for sin and sub set. how do I work around that?

[hollow temple]

you need the item ID i guess

[sweet yoke]

same item id (?)

[swift cairn]

Kinda surprised how outlaw pumps now for 661 ilvl, something is bugged or we're just fine tbh ? (it was a 12 psf)

[hybrid crown]

Fine until you die to ks

[late swallow]

Hors-la-loi

[sweet yoke]

like I dont wanna "oil" up both and will puth depths on one of em for am only gonna use it ST

but yeah I am brain lagging

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/diddy-baby-oil-oil-him-up-xllcarolinellx-gif-12157753233357456797

[sweet yoke]

holy hahah

[swift cairn]

XD

french power

[vivid vessel]

[sweet yoke]

asked the almighty gpt, should be fine now

[desert tendon]

Next time you mock french i m sending zeross in your DM to spam you to valhala

[hybrid crown]

I found this but it's from 2020 and weird scripts sometimes break due to changes. This might be worth a shot tho
https://github.com/RagedUnicorn/wow-classic-gearmenu/issues/70#issuecomment-917311778

[swift cairn]

Don't fuck with us, we have unlimited baguettes to send to ur face

[sweet yoke]

hahaha cheers but yeah think I will just throw one in bank for when I do outlaw keys after thinking abt it

[gaunt phoenix]

outlaw trucks rn

especially in pug keys

We got a bugfix that significantly improved the value of Precise Cuts

im afraid ill manifest it if i keep typing it but it might catch a nerf

[jolly geyser]

[midnight ridge]

so pc over gs with 2fth?

[swift cairn]

Nerf us would be true disaster cause they took half a year to fix

[covert kestrel]

i think its mostly dungeon dependent

[swift cairn]

And they give us KS that is pretty bugged and unplayable tbh

so maybe continue to fix and give us love before nerf

[vivid vessel]

still worse than assa and udk and boomie and ..

[gaunt phoenix]

yesh i would use pc

maybe in meadery you can skip it

[swift cairn]

There's a lot of things i still don't manage, like on the WORK last boss, using KS provides sometimes the DOT from bombs... ?

Stuns from 3rd boss DFC

Dont understand what i can do to avoid it except use it at opposite max range

[gaunt phoenix]

use ks at low cp

[old badger]

how are u guys not getting stunned every time u ks on candle king?

does the tank just need to move the boss further from the statues?

[gaunt phoenix]

use it at low cp

and pray

Ks at low cp is not much of a dps loss

[hybrid crown]

Do you just not ks on the moss dude in floodgate

[old badger]

i pray every time i use ks. take my hands full off the keyboard and let jesus take the wheel

[gaunt phoenix]

In pugs you have to delay it

i guess

[hybrid crown]

I've done floodgate twice because I hate it so much as outlaw

[gaunt phoenix]

but i only run with friends

i give them a little yank with low cp KS

they expect it

[jolly geyser]

Jank em off ay?

[hybrid crown]

God the second half of the dungeon is just so ass for us

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

[old badger]

it’s safe to use it when the new tethers are going out

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

[swift cairn]

they just should change animation and the spell, like a big moving combo on the same place

dunno

[vivid vessel]

i give them the full yank

[gaunt phoenix]

there are some moments

[old badger]

like on pull and then after the aoe

[midnight ridge]

thats interesting, so its not worth to use ss/ambush proc on 5cp for full cp ks?

[gaunt phoenix]

No that would break the finisher rule

though i doubt it matters much in that instance

[timber knoll]

uhhh what did trump mean by this

[gaunt phoenix]

if i get linked to tank

maybe give them the full yank experience

pls type something so trump is off my screen

[sour fossil]

What is everyones thoughts on the current political environment in Dornogal?

[tropic zephyr]

Solo bolo

[gaunt phoenix]

how to pronounce dornogal

i propose

dornoggle

[sour fossil]

Door - no - gawl

[gaunt phoenix]

wrong

[vivid vessel]

im french

so

its door no gal like a girl gal

[gaunt phoenix]

i see

[novel socket]

any improvements here for st/cleave for raid

[severe heart]

does the Nightfall cudgel bring up Fatebound at all since your just vanishing on CD as opposed to tricksters occasional hold or does it just not end up mattering?

[novel socket]

all sites show HO talents for raid but with the haste i have kir is better

[gaunt phoenix]

its fine

[novel socket]

and i use this for heavy aoe raid fights

[latent oak]

ur still using the same amount of vanishes really

[novel socket]

tho i guess i could drop pc

[gaunt phoenix]

HO vs KIR is preference/gear dependent

[sour fossil]

I play KIR in raid simply because it feels better

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

valid

[novel socket]

i used to do HO but now i have 23% unbuffed haste so kir is way better

[gaunt phoenix]

on heroic i dont think you need aoe talents on anything

[novel socket]

ye

[severe heart]

okay wasnt sure if it would net into more vanishes on fatebound over the key and work in favor of the cudgel

[gaunt phoenix]

fatebound still holds vanish for things

i guess we dont talk about a lot but its in the guides

you generally hold vanish until ruthless precision or supercharger becomes active

though i guess with proper play RP is active like 85% of the time

[sour fossil]

God I miss fatebound meta.

Mythic Sprocket was a breath of fresh air from the constant misery of trickster

[novel socket]

fatebound sucks so much tho

so much dmg loss

[sour fossil]

I mean if it was meta it wouldnt be damage loss lol

[vapid blaze]

whats interesting about fatebound tho

[sour fossil]

not pressing KS

[gaunt phoenix]

i like the vanish rule

you do vanish more freely i guess

[vivid vessel]

I like that fb can delay vanihs however it want

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah

[vivid vessel]

For mechanics or damage amps or whatever the fuck

[gaunt phoenix]

if RP is ticking

[vivid vessel]

It's much harder as trickster

[sour fossil]

Also do we really need more interesting talents, I feel like playing outlaw is like crack compared to most other classes

we be doing ENOUGH

[gaunt phoenix]

dont need more things to track

would be nice if lucky coin was different

[vapid blaze]

would be great if you could actually track some things properly and didnt need custom code wa's for it 🙂

[gaunt phoenix]

just losing -5% dps while its not active

casually

[sour fossil]

Even if you were to take out the extra APM count of Pistol Shot I think we are still highest APM by a landslide

[quartz magnet]

is the cudgel any good for raid fights like stix with the amount of mobs or do we still prefer higher ilvl weapons for raid?

[gaunt phoenix]

nah just use normal weapons

[quartz magnet]

oke ty

[sour fossil]

I forgot to take it off for heroic gally

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/KdkVvmPA8W4Dh9qb?fight=109&type=damage-done

Still did 10m damage lol

[gaunt phoenix]

ya i mean it can prolly break even on stix/gally

[glass mortar]

Lots of new adds for it to hit since it spawns so many waves

Same for Stix yea

Id prob still go with a weapon weapon tho

[red zinc]

yeah but it doesnt reproc on those adds though

[sour fossil]

it has to if its doing 10m here

[gaunt phoenix]

ye so it will do 1% and not 3%

[sour fossil]

not reproc from vanish

but first time it hits them ye?

[glass mortar]

Why would it not, isn't it simply the first time it hits. Target per combat?

[gaunt phoenix]

he means vanish

[red zinc]

yer

[glass mortar]

Ah yea. Nah I wouldn't wear on any fight unless u were getting the padding dream fest of ur life on Stix maybe

[red zinc]

if it was good without the whole vanishing thing everyone would be running it

honnestly kinda crazy that its still 1% on a raid fight though, makes me wonder if it would be bis for brew

in m+

[sour fossil]

Elemental Focusing Lens scales with crafted ilvl yeh

?

[gaunt phoenix]

probably

[vivid vessel]

What if you just weapon swap after it procced

[sour fossil]

Just looking at my heroic gally last week vs this week its prety damn close lol

[vivid vessel]

And just swap back to the weapon for add waves

Thinking gally

[sour fossil]

did do more last week with my 675 dagger

[red zinc]

cant swap mid fight

afaik

[vivid vessel]

You get your hit then equip normal weapon back again

[red zinc]

can you?

[vivid vessel]

You can

Stop spreading missinfo noob

!ban @red zinc yapper

[wintry solar]

Finally he's banned

[red zinc]

we both spread equal amount of misinformation

[desert tendon]

Zac Never lied

Sorry

[red zinc]

he lied so many times

[desert tendon]

He s 100% accurate

We call him the fact spitter

[vivid vessel]

ye ok its 100% worth

@gaunt phoenix

surely you just swap to the weapoin before add swpasn

[sour fossil]

Okay I feel like im taking crazy pills

I tried to swap wep in M+ during combat yesterday and it didnt work

[frank finch]

[sour fossil]

its different in raid or im dumb?

[vivid vessel]

we were weapon swapping to sylvanas in sl so idk

[frank finch]

wtf thats alot of dps or am i bugging

[desert tendon]

Eon

[reef forge]

when can i buy capo weapon?

[desert tendon]

[vivid vessel]

its a 10 sec window

but ye

[frank finch]

r1 tech

[desert tendon]

I love outlaw coon

Cook

Soon they gonna meld middle pull to swap weapon and enchants

[vivid vessel]

you bet im abusing it next reclear

[desert tendon]

[frank finch]

swap dual wield when adds spawn then swap back

[gaunt phoenix]

you can do it in combat i think

its just a gcd

[tight kernel]

Every few hundred lines I need a tldr of what Zac is typing

[vivid vessel]

tldr im getting r1 gally next week again

beating my own r1 every week

[frank finch]

try dual wielding

zac

[vivid vessel]

no

[sour fossil]

https://tenor.com/view/no-giga-chad-no-gif-21613582

[tight kernel]

Holy haste pretty sure haste drops dramatically after 19%.. 23% unbuffed seems unhinged

[gaunt phoenix]

i mean it does

but like

[novel socket]

isn't 25% the cap for adr ?

[tight kernel]

Idk maybe I like my vers