that would nerf us in raid more than anything tho
#outlaw
lone spear
glass mortar
outlaw kinda owns on cleave fights where u can pad cleave in raid tho
idk if anyone can pad as hard as on stix
vivid vessel
Unless you have AOE burst wtf does your cleave in raid does
glass mortar
its just not always relevant damage
vivid vessel
Other than pad and look good on metters
glass mortar
i mean its free but its also giga strong
lone spear
thats a good thing to have
random stirrup
so many specs have free cleave now
glass mortar
as long as u can kspree on cd
lone spear
other specs have it sure, but that doesnt make ours worse
we probs have the easiest time speccing into more cleave too
vivid vessel
we probs have the easiest time speccing into more cleave too
Not really true anymore
We lose quite a lot to get our cleave in m+
Like for kir it's close to 10% probably
Sub loses 0 for example
random stirrup
sub both plays same talents in raid and keys and doesn't have to press a useless button (if not specced to deft) to activate it
lone spear
sub loses 0 ST to get aoe?
vivid vessel
Ye
They changed one talent I think
Which does nothing anyway
They play the same build in keys than in raid basically
vivid vessel
Ye cause assa is meta
vivid vessel
are they even good?
Till outlaw bug fixes I would have said it's better than outlaw ye
lone spear
maybe just my luck
vivid vessel
Now I'm not so sure
icy cedar
sub is just super unejoyable outside of your CDs to play sub
latent oak
its very good at certain things right
icy cedar
just literally nothing to do
cinder relic
Sub was good and then they buffed aasa
vivid vessel
Well sub had it's keys where it's particularly strong I think tho
Like top and shit like that
icy cedar
at least outlaw is fun to play even if numbers behind
vivid vessel
It's not good at huge aoe
But cleave and st it excels at
And of course if you need burst
Like rookery last boss
And I mean while rookery isn't a terrible sub dungeon either
But ye before outlaw hotfix sub was certainly better
Now?
Not sure
The thing with sub is that sub players just play sim
Sin
Every season it's like that
Idk why
It's not like outlaw where we have people that playd outlaw Perma
Sub players will either play sin in keys
Or just raid only
Also sub gets like 8% from shaman buff I think which is also weird
But raid buffs in genreal are weird in m+
And I feel like they impact melees much more
Which might be one of the reason it's harder for melees to be meta in m+ honestly
When you have like a 15/20% difference with and without buffs
Idk
Weird af
gaunt phoenix
Also sub gets like 8% from shaman buff I think which is also weird
lol jesus
8% is a legendary item
latent oak
does assa also gain insane st value from it
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
latent oak
not as big as sub but still insane
dense bolt
doesnt unholy gain like 7% or smth aswell
vivid vessel
does assa also gain insane st value from it
Uh idk
dense bolt
is what i heard
vivid vessel
Not like sub no
dense bolt
not entirely sure
lone spear
would that mastery was better in m+, though i guess now that deft is fixed KiR builds dont mind it
vivid vessel
I feel like no one cares about raid buffs in m+
deep cedar
so if im doing like 14-16 i should be fine on outlaw right
vivid vessel
When it's such a huge issue for tuning
How do you tune a spec that can do close to 15% more damage with the proper buffs
You can't right
Or you make sure all these melee specs are shit I guess so it doesn't escalate
dense bolt
I heard that as well rem ye
imagine we just gain 7% dmg from druid buff
vivid vessel
And we play the wizard teams instead
dense bolt
holy
dense bolt
whats warrior buff for us
vivid vessel
Bout 5%
dense bolt
like i dont even know this
vivid vessel
Same as monk
lone spear
idk man m+ balance at the highest keys
vivid vessel
Sham is about 3 I think for us
lone spear
is just w/e
cinder relic
It's hard to balance specs around 10s 12s 15s and higher, and raid at the same times
glass mortar
but yea its crazy how strong it is for sub
cinder relic
It's like when the Devs said in the start of DF that outlaw was the single strongest spec in the game for "enabling key success" or something to that effect
Some specs are good in noob keys, which is 99% of the player base others are op in push keys
vivid vessel
My issue with that is that
You don't deplete a low key cause of spec
You also aren't limited by your spec
You won't miss out on invites cause of your spec
That's only a thing that happens at higher level when damage get relevant etc
Also high key meta trickle down anyway
I think if you go look at low keys rn
It's dk being played everywhere as well
Cause people just reroll to the specs people play in high keys
But if we are honest
For like
As long as I can remember
The best low key spec has always been outlaw
So why do people not reroll to outlaw
lone spear
cause its hard
it isnt like other specs, where you can kinda go through the motions and do ok damage
outlaw mistakes are punished heavily
vivid vessel
Sure well
wide nexus
I mean Outlaw is high apm, KiR is super punishing if you die, and both build are punished heavily by downtime. it makes it kind of unapproachable for some players
lone spear
and those mistakes also make gameplay feel ass (if you do enough to drop AR for example)
vivid vessel
I dont think that's the main reason anyway
I think the main reason is just that people look at what's being done in higher keys
And do the same
That's just any game tho
formal axle
So why do people not reroll to outlaw
doesnt feel like rogue to me , but a cooler fury warrior
lone spear
some people probably
buy you overestimate how many people care about that stuff i think
wide nexus
I mean if I am doing a weekly 10 and I see an outlaw rogue at 2700 and a UDK at 2700 I would more often than not pick the rogue becuase a lot of low IO udk are kinda garbo
vivid vessel
And I highly doubt dk does good in lower keys lol
lone spear
they have been good 2 seasons in a row, tho different specs
vivid vessel
I mean if I am doing a weekly 10 and I see an outlaw rogue at 2700 and a UDK at ...
You are in this channel so you are kinda biased already
cinder relic
Specs like dk are ass in low keys
wide nexus
You are in this channel so you are kinda biased already
lmao true
lone spear
the common consensus among the top tier players, which i think is true too, is if you play what you enjoy you will perform better than if you just fotm rerolled
unless you're legit cracked at the game as a whole
vivid vessel
I'm sorry what
lone spear
which most people think "yea thats me im cracked"
vivid vessel
What top tier players you are talking to
Legit any player that does higher than like
13
Insta reroll to the mets spec
Every tier
wide nexus
the common consensus among the top tier players, which i think is true too, is i...
unless you enjoy Aug
vivid vessel
fluid iron
it what top tier players tell casuals to do
lone spear
yea, but they shouldnt unless their goal is to push the highest keys
which lets be real, they wont
vivid vessel
Bring the player not the class has not been true forever
lone spear
just statistically
fluid iron
cuz at the level they play at it doesent matter
vivid vessel
which lets be real, they wont
Sure but you play to do better
And part of doing better is also rerolling to better specs
vivid vessel
It's not really surprising idk
vapid blaze
And part of doing better is also rerolling to better specs
well its a two edged sword
think both ideas for lower tier players is fine
lone spear
idk man theres no way theres a huge amount of people that think "i just want to do top keys, no matter the spec i play thats how i have fun"
thats gotta be so niche
vivid vessel
No but they want to do what other people that do high keys do
Aka they want to do big damn
And to do that
They reroll to the specs their streamers play
Idk
vapid blaze
yeah thats true
in some cases its like so easy too
lone spear
to each their own i guess, but i cant imagine theyre very good/having as much fun as if they just played a spec they liked
the one tricks are almost* always better for a reason
vivid vessel
vapid blaze
your skill cant overcome spec disparity tho š
vivid vessel
This is statistics for 12 and up
Can't look at under cause it's weeklies so it's biased by raid
And you can't look at it anyways do
So
Best we got
Other than ret which is the anomaly every tier cause idk fun spec it whatever
Looks at dk
lone spear
theres a chunk more sure (though ret/druid is always popular)
vivid vessel
Like the dk bar is huge
lone spear
dk is alot tho
vivid vessel
And this is people doing 12s
You really think
Dk is good
In these keys ??
It's probably so dogshit man
Outlaw would run over all these handicapped dks
lone spear
i mean the people are just wrong
vivid vessel
Uh idk
lone spear
i dont think its on blizz to nerf dk in those keys
red zinc
Outlaw would run over all these handicapped dks
wtf im right here
vivid vessel
Does it change anything
cinder relic
There's a setting
last thunder
zac why do you play KiR? padder?
vivid vessel
Ah ye there is
lone spear
he hates HO
vivid vessel
I see it
lone spear
we all know it
red zinc
kir > ho
vivid vessel
Well it doesn't change anything @cinder relic
red zinc
vivid vessel
In term of how the bars look
cinder relic
Gotcha
lone spear
kir this, ho that, inma play neither with gsw and bladerush
griefing the next key im in
red zinc
Do no crackshot wussy
lone spear
hoooly
red zinc
Do the first 7 tier gambit
green cairn
Hi guys, quick question, are we using KIR or HO now for m+?
lone spear
huge fan
vivid vessel
Actually learned rogue from you
red zinc
The 4% got to him
vivid vessel
Back in sl
wide nexus
large fan
vivid vessel
Hi guys, quick question, are we using KIR or HO now for m+?
Ho if you are new
Ho if you are experienced
Kir if you like kir better and cope about how it does more damage even tho there is no proof it does more damage
(it does more damage)
green cairn
Got it! thanks
vapid blaze
kir with coup bug was ā¤ļø
wide nexus
KiR if you're okay with losing all of your damage if you die
lone spear
daily request to remove ADR, make the spec play the way it does baseline, and give us a 1min cd not reduced by restless blades
vivid vessel
Ok blocking you aswell
quasi verge
ew what the fuck
vivid vessel
Ty for input tho
lone spear
they hate me cause i speak the truth
wide nexus
ADR uptime is skill expression
vapid blaze
so u wanna play assa
u can respec
cinder relic
Wink rn
vivid vessel
Xdd
lone spear
adr uptime is RNG expression masked as skill expression
red zinc
this is a good idea but you are just wrong because I said so
lone spear
<- puttem here buddy
red zinc
Thoughts?
vivid vessel
I agree with you timmy
And not because my brother has the same name as you timmy
No
Because you are objectively correct
red zinc
zac i date guys called tim
vivid vessel
And Twink is wrong
red zinc
Be careful
vivid vessel
Ye
Why would I be careful
I can tell my brother to be careful if you want
My name isn't tim
vivid vessel
Bet you are a bottom noob
lone spear
idk man like
red zinc
the only bottom is you under dogwoofwoof on the dps meter
vivid vessel
You too wink
vivid vessel
the only bottom is you under dogwoofwoof on the dps meter
Wtf ..
red zinc
im never letting it go
lone spear
i think its just a case of, if the gameplay is only fun with adr up, and you can lose adr due to rng, mechanics, etc.
red zinc
ts gonna be in my eulogy
quasi verge
just donāt die
lone spear
stuff out of ur control
then adr is pointless
idk ill take zacs suggestion of increasing energy gen
red zinc
Outside of some really cringe rp scenarios most of the AR issues have counterplay or clunky workarounds
but theres some skill expression there at least
ks just makes me want to do things
quasi verge
Outside of some really cringe rp scenarios most of the AR issues have counterpla...
true
lone spear
i dont think law needs ALL the skill expression it has
vivid vessel
I mean if you give back energy
lone spear
we have enough to sac
red zinc
It doesnt need it
quasi verge
top watching my adr tick down makes me sad
lone spear
to make it smoother
red zinc
But at the same time theres 38 other specs right
wide nexus
ks make me want to kms the way it kills my character
vivid vessel
But 0.2s slower
red zinc
niche for everyone
vivid vessel
Not litteraly 10 min per GCD
red zinc
I enjoy stupid minmaxes
lone spear
no spec plays like outlaw
vivid vessel
I have done crackshot windows without ADR, when I have full buffs and fth procs
As long as you have energy
lone spear
and no spec has outlaw fantasy (whats left anyway)
tight kernel
Kir if you like kir better and cope about how it does more damage even tho there...
This was zacs admission that ho is better
vivid vessel
No I just don't want to influentiate people to play kir
Cause I do think kir is better
I just don't think
YOU
Can play kir as well as you need to for it to be better than ho
You as in
You asking
red zinc
Im somehow not that good at kir but even worse at ho
lone spear
u gonna take that?
red zinc
Do I just uninstall
red zinc
Every time i see the wowhead news notif I lock the fuck in
Thinking it might be a ks change
hopeless
red zinc
theres been no class changes yet
If we get another whole patch with 0 class changes
Idk whats going on
lone spear
obvs saving it for 11.2
red zinc
and i dont mean like no outlaw changes just overall
lone spear
wide nexus
I'm waiting for midnight to see rogue changes
vivid vessel
I legit think devs just fuck off to next expac everytime beta is over
red zinc
I mean they do
vivid vessel
Am I cooked?
red zinc
But they had a pretty nice streak going last xpac / season with class changes
i just dont know why it stopped
wide nexus
do rogue devs exist? I feel like rogue development gets given to paid interns or something
vivid vessel
Ye df true
lone spear
i mean even this expac, the 11.0.x had good changes
wide nexus
maybe even unpaid interns
red zinc
Bro theres too many moving parts in wow I get the no changes shit sometimes, cant say anything concrete about the structure in blizzard but I imagine they are stretched pretty thin
hollow temple
I legit think devs just fuck off to next expac everytime beta is over
It kinda makes you wonderā¦.. what do they do all day
tight kernel
It kinda makes you wonderā¦.. what do they do all day
play mage
isnt it obvious
?
red zinc
the intern shit just feels a lil insensitive idk
wide nexus
I'm pretty sure they play assassination rogue sometimes
red zinc
its not like realzā entire job comes down to fixing rogue and reading discord and heās just choosing to not do anything
cinder relic
and i dont mean like no outlaw changes just overall
they buffed sin a few weeks ago
red zinc
Like changes not balancing
numbers tuning been happenin ye
Idk I thought reworking classes every content patch was a cooler way to change the meta than the random ass number changes from raid balancing that influence m+ unintentionally
cinder relic
Most classes aren't getting drastic redesigns tier over tier
like pala has been the same spec since the rework in 10.0.5
and warrior has been the same all of TWW feels like
Cant speak to before then
lone spear
i mean people like it tho, i dont see complaints bout how either play
granted warriors are rare
in the level where it matters
cinder relic
Execute on warrior sucks ass, Ppl for sure complain about warrior
Not execute damasge
the button execute
vivid vessel
the intern shit just feels a lil insensitive idk
Idk when you compound all the class changes, then realize there is 10/20 (forgot the exact number but could check again), class devs
Kinda wonder where the times goes
red zinc
I feel like warrior needs a look
They are vanishing
Felt like a turbo popular class and now I see like 1 in a raid
If even that
quasi verge
surprising cause arms is in a pretty good spot
lone spear
people werent flooding the gates with fury warriors
quasi verge
sending 80m+ cleaves feels great
hollow temple
They are vanishing
Thereās as many fury warriors in pvp as there are rets in m+
Itās kinda crazy
lone spear
thats the thing, critcake has seemed pretty up on how war plays, tho that is 1 guy
red zinc
pvp is like a different world to me
hollow temple
Yeah
red zinc
im like as far removed as possible from it
quasi verge
thats the thing, critcake has seemed pretty up on how war plays, tho that is 1 g...
bizentein too
red zinc
wide nexus
I think a problem with class development is that, I am somebody who plays almost exclusively rogue, I have multiple rogues at max and play each spec at varying levels basically every patch, but I wouldn't feel comfortable redesigning every spec each tier. like the idea of having only one person or fewer people assigned to one class seems like a huge ask
cinder relic
I mean idk, I think rogue plays great, other than killing spree, and sub is undertuned
vivid vessel
Rogue does play great
latent oak
outlaw rn is in very fun spot rotation wise
vivid vessel
Imagine how great it could be tho
lone spear
yea i like it, but can be improved
latent oak
like it adds good gameplay
cinder relic
every spec can be improved
vivid vessel
I feel like hero talents are a let down and only make the rotation worse for the most part
Which is a shame
Cause it's the expac thing
lone spear
every spec can be improved
i mean that is a true statement
but doesnt mean we cant ask
latent oak
trickster with a reworked ks is just good no?
red zinc
Everything can always be improved
cinder relic
Deathstalker for sin makes sins rotation more interesting, coup makes Sub feel better with the added CDR and damage, in your CD windows, and trickster adds a bunch of stupid rules that you guys love to optimize around
red zinc
That just has to happen
cinder relic
ks bad 
lone spear
holy so brave
latent oak
ks=d4=poe2
vivid vessel
Deathstalker for sin makes sins rotation more interesting, coup makes Sub feel b...
Deatlthsalkter being a debuff is criminal
I know you dont really care cause you don't really m+
But like
It is criminal
cinder relic
I do keys on my rogue
vivid vessel
And it only applying trough ambush from stealth
vivid vessel
Is also criminal
lone spear
make ghostly strike a buff 
vivid vessel
No lol
So like
In s1
You didn't play blindside
I mean I think most buldl don't play it in m+ rn either
Anyway
cinder relic
Only the zeros build doesnt play it
vivid vessel
You could get stealth broken up and then have to vanish to ambush
Or you have boss phases
Like siĆØge boss
red zinc
id sacrifice the entirety of ret paladin to get rid of ks
vivid vessel
Stuffs like that
red zinc
big commitment i know
vivid vessel
Idk it's legit the most annoying shit ever
latent oak
ya the boss phases are hte only cringe aspect for me so far but i just fucked around on sin didnt play it much
vivid vessel
Only the zeros build doesnt play it
Ye well that's basically the build we played all of s1 anyway so
wide nexus
Deatlthsalkter being a debuff is criminal
I mean DS giving a personal buff instead of a target like the BtE change would be cool but it would be missing the point of the hero talent's theme
cinder relic
It also wouldn't work with talents like singular focus
vivid vessel
trickster with a reworked ks is just good no?
- why does coup require fazed to be up on the target to do anything (damage and give stacks), fazed is like 95% uptime, its just punish you when targget dies or you swap target
- why is ub not trackable
- why does the ub cd reset thing is also not trackable
- why is the cooldown ub not consumed before the ks ones
- why does escalating blades only stack up to 4, as far as i know every other things like that can stack infinitlyy basicallyt so you dont just waste sdtacks like we do (havoc or enhance as exa,ple)
- why is coup a longer gcd for no reason
- why is ks ks
- why does the aoe buff require ff to be up, thats mega weird and rng, sub can litteraly suddently lose bf for no reason
- why is fazed even a thing, why is it a debuff, why does it just punish target swapping on like every talent for 0 reason
- why is cloud cover
I had that from last time
Every thing that is mega weird or just annoying for no reason on trickster
cinder relic
"Why doesn't coup stack forever" because then sub would be incentivized a large amount to sit on multiple coup charges for its CD windows
latent oak
still feel like its a gain from base tho
vivid vessel
I mean DS giving a personal buff instead of a target like the BtE change would b...
I'm ngl I don't really care about lore or whatever when it just make it annoying to play, figure it out
latent oak
it has annoyances sure
vivid vessel
Bte also doesn't make sense
whole dune
!talents
vivid vessel
"Why doesn't coup stack forever" because then sub would be incentivized a large ...
It just create stuffs where you just lose ub stacks left and right
Every other specs that I played with similar stacking buff in their hero talent
So dh thingy
And enhance thing
Has it stack up
"infinitly"
So you don't just waste stuffs Perma
quasi verge
tempest go brr
vivid vessel
We have to be mega cringe to not wastes our stacks
Also sub people would be probably happy to be able to spam rupture a bit outside of CDs to do bigger burst since they jerk off about big burst Perma anyway
wide nexus
I'm ngl I don't really care about lore or whatever when it just make it annoying...
I would like it if darkest night was just a passive buff that you have whenever you didn't have a mark up, it would fix all of the problems with targets losing mark (going immune or bugging) and it would mean you would never have problems reapplying mark
cinder relic
quasi verge
hahahahaha
cinder relic
Yeah sub would be so fun to spam rupture BP on st to save coup charges 
runic bough
Is sub still fun rn ?
cinder relic
Its only something people complained about a lot in server when it was what you did in season 1
Sub is fun ye just undertuned
vivid vessel
Nice tweet btw guy
runic bough
Still did more than outlaw according to zeross
vivid vessel
If my tweeter account wasn't reserved for gooning content I would drop a like
But you know how it goes
random stirrup
If my tweeter account wasn't reserved for gooning content I would drop a like
somnius??
upbeat tundra
bro it is impossible to pug keys on this class
or get in them rather
this was worse than when i made a bm hunter
i think i got into more keys as aug actually
fathom bramble
I think rogue doesn't really have anything that makes you more desirable than someone else
so you have to rely solely on score and other global factors
tight kernel
@vivid vessel y dont u like PC for TOP?
fathom bramble
it's not like we will get invited for lust, shroud, or dispels
vivid vessel
<@352916297262301194> y dont u like PC for TOP?
Ye pc good in top
fiery timber
Every spec in the game has a raid buff nowadays
or debuff
proven ocean
@vivid vessel i think
vivid vessel
I doubt you do but ok
proven ocean
dude
fathom bramble
I mean we have a raiddebuff but no one cares about -15% haste or -3% damage on enemies
fathom bramble
not compared to lust or bres in pug keys
red zinc
Why doesnt rogue just get 3% crit or somethin
wintry solar
Zzzzz
vivid vessel
It's also fairly impossible to get a ludt with a rogue rn
red zinc
doesnt have to be crazy just somethin light
vivid vessel
Cause you need a resto shaman
wintry solar
Also
vivid vessel
Playing outlaw with mage is int
proven ocean
It's also fairly impossible to get a ludt with a rogue rn
wtf is ludt
wintry solar
Just be an engineer with the brez :)
fathom bramble
I would rather join a different pug than be the only person in the group with an engi res on them
and be forced to actually use it
fathom bramble
but I guess if you are working on an alt you can't necessarily afford to be picky
red zinc
never seen that brez fail and i dont have engineering
vivid vessel
Wdym you don't want an unreliable brez?
It's just impossibly shit to find the corpse and Rez it
red zinc
The 3 star one works fine
vivid vessel
Legit 10 s lost
Might as well kill yourself as outlaw
If you are gonna lose 10 s
Just rez me aswell please
red zinc
Just press ks to triangulate the corpse with your various locations
vivid vessel
Bro
hollow portal
our priory 18 run
Congratulations, I saw it live with some friends and it was incredible, everything very clean and an incredible overall.
wintry solar
"I seen his body 3 teleports ago"
vivid vessel
Lately in my keys I have lost people to casts going through
And I'm like
Weird
I didn't see it and didn't stop
I check replay
Ye of course I was in killing spree
Can't see shit
fiery timber
vivid vessel
- need 3 s to recover after every ks to understand where mobs are
fiery timber
first day ks was a thingy i felt into hole on gally mid ks
vivid vessel
I feel so unaware
proven ocean
Congratulations, I saw it live with some friends and it was incredible, everythi...
ty ty
vivid vessel
About litteraly everything
With killing spree
It's crazy
I'm just aware of me
And how I can press ks to not die
red zinc
Would probably be more aware if you made a wa that freezes your game for the exact duration of your ks cast
So you can digest the situation in front of you
just lookin at a still frame
proven ocean
@vivid vessel guess what
@vivid vessel guess what happened
@vivid vessel
@vivid vessel guess what happened
late swallow
You kissed a girl finally?
hollow portal
xdd
late swallow
And you didnt pay for it this time?
proven ocean
cold jewel
ross wondering how you guys read his mind so well
proven ocean
not gonna pay to kiss a bitch wtf
wintry solar
I was at the aoe target dummies just straight jorkin it (and by it, let's just say... my rotation) and this UHDK comes up and practices next to me and he has the nerve to use defile. Ruined my vibe fr. Couldn't see shit.
proven ocean
sup cuh
@late swallow
what do u do like
do u play wow
or what
?
feels like ur an npc that comes here to yap and waits till he decides to talk here again
late swallow
feels like ur an npc that comes here to yap and waits till he decides to talk he...
Sorry I donāt spend 16 hours a day playing the same game doing the same dungeons over and over
vivid vessel
Would probably be more aware if you made a wa that freezes your game for the exa...
Wait
late swallow
Iām the npc tho fr
vivid vessel
Legit true lol
vivid vessel
Ro
vivid vessel
No
proven ocean
yes
vivid vessel
Aug trash
vivid vessel
Have you played with Aug
vivid vessel
Idc about that lol
proven ocean
well
vivid vessel
That's irrelevant
vivid vessel
You play Aug you need to know about grp damage
proven ocean
ye so
vivid vessel
Of course you are gonna do more DPS lol
late swallow
proven ocean
late swallow
This emoji is really good ngl
late swallow
Nah itās good
late swallow
late swallow
Rip
vivid vessel
You sent me some weird ass image format
proven ocean
nah
its easy zac, u just need 3.6k rio
rio too low zac
0 rio noob
try next time
late swallow
vivid vessel
Doesn't even exist
late swallow
Rossās disc has some banger emojis
proven ocean
i miss vrgl
fathom bramble
you can blind mechanicals
I think I know which mobs your talking about and they are just immune to blind for seemingly no reason
vivid vessel
Tf
proven ocean
I think I know which mobs your talking about and they are just immune to blind f...
some mechanicals are immune
ye
fathom bramble
yeah but it's not because they are mechanical
vivid vessel
proven ocean
like 1st pull workshop
fathom bramble
it's something else
vivid vessel
fathom bramble
some mobs are immune to long duration CC like blind, sap, poly
it's just our long duration cc got turned into a short duration stop
so it's weird
vivid vessel
Hm
vivid vessel
Fix what
fathom bramble
mechanical mobs are also immune to most long duration CCs like that by virtue of being mechanical
proven ocean
its like that friend u invite to a party and always declines for ur 10th invite and if u dont invite him the 11th time he gets mad
thats blizzard
fathom bramble
I think the only other long CC that can target mechs is para ?
proven ocean
idk
hollow temple
@vivid vessel havoc new meta confirmed
fathom bramble
like they are immune to poly, hex, sap, paladin, and cage by default
hollow temple
Letās play uwu spec
upbeat tundra
what comp do i make for this 16 priory
late swallow
what comp do i make for this 16 priory
Phys comp
fathom bramble
BF should deal 10% of its damage to your main target instead of each extra target
late swallow
Squishvegan comp
fathom bramble
give me funnel
late swallow
You asked
hollow temple
no its fucking awful
Itās kinda good
proven ocean
Arcane levels of funnel !
sin has same funnel as arcane sometimes abit stronger too
hollow temple
Find a prot warrior
late swallow
Yeah I keep playing with bizentein and critcake
hollow temple
(lol)
upbeat tundra
i think i just take highest ilvl
fathom bramble
it's crazy that we use to consider wits funnel
and now there are specs that just destroy the small funnel wits gave
though wits was unique in the fact that you got the same funnel gains from 1 target or 10
cold jewel
did the most recent bug fixes change any talents for HO m+?
glass mortar
nah
upbeat tundra
if i just take the standard meta comp where can i fit
glass mortar
i mean if u stopped playing PC cause it was probably inting u can play PC again
upbeat tundra
me instead of boomie i guess
glass mortar
the difference in this dead target bug if definitly noticable xd
hollow temple
me instead of boomie i guess
or the mage
glass mortar
this thing was probably hitting PC way more then it was hitting BF damage overall this season
upbeat tundra
or the mage
no lust unless rsham over disc
hollow temple
true
vivid vessel
Mage outlaw is mega shit
upbeat tundra
so do i just take rsham
vivid vessel
You replace mage and you get a resto
upbeat tundra
yea alright
upbeat tundra
im not inviting a hunter on purpose
vivid vessel
If you want
hollow temple
im not inviting a hunter on purpose
why
vivid vessel
But most hunters I have played with just did more damage than the trash fotm dks
hollow temple
mm is kinda good now
upbeat tundra
But most hunters I have played with just did more damage than the trash fotm dks
trash fotm dks just natty live
vivid vessel
Hunter is quite good and at least the people that play hunter rns aren't fotm rerollers so
upbeat tundra
dk just cant die and has the grips like im trying to lfg 16s and 17s and its proving to be impossible
nuclear difficulty
i bring phys classes and they are always unbelievably bad
also every pull and route and of these people have played with are dh boomie pulls
so when u bring any kind of off meta comp nobody has any fucking clue whats going on
glass mortar
guys what race shuld i make my ret
upbeat tundra
dwarf
glass mortar
with these buffs this shit is gunna be a banger to play in delves
time to level
wait wtf why do i have a level 80 paladin
when did i do this
upbeat tundra
can rsham heal a 16 priory
fiery timber
ofc
hollow temple
anything can heal 16s right
upbeat tundra
anything can heal 16s right
in my experience nothing can
hollow temple
fiery timber
resto evoker not or
hollow temple
real
fiery timber
didnt even see 1 this season
hollow temple
jpc's team is doing like 19s n 20s with hpal
i feel like healer meta is like halfway decent
fiery timber
ye
tight kernel
We want 19% haste as kir ye?
fiery timber
ye
tight kernel
drops crazy after 19
upbeat tundra
so its vdh outlaw boomie unholy rsham thats the comp? @vivid vessel
tight kernel
upbeat tundra
does this guarantee i time the key
fiery timber
so its vdh outlaw boomie unholy rsham thats the comp? <@352916297262301194>
looks good
trail star
how if I cleaned the raid several times
hollow temple
how if I cleaned the raid several times
i'm 9 renown and i've cleared the raid once
trail star
Really
hollow temple
:3
yeah
the renown bugged
and was giving people 20 renown for free
so they reset everyone to 9 renown i think
apparently you are even more bugged
send a ticket
trail star
Yeah I did
trail star
I am ready to be sent to read a Wowhead article.
hollow temple
aug has been one shotting in pvp
other than that you only really see them in keys if they have nice friends
runic bough
Aug or dev
hollow temple
aug
runic bough
Hmm
hollow temple
for some reason aug has like
upbeat tundra
i played aug in some keys it feels good
hollow temple
the most insane, entirely frontloaded burst dps in the game in pvp
upbeat tundra
the damage is certainly low tho
hollow temple
it can 100->0 someone in less than 2 seconds immediately in an opener, its wild
runic bough
How does Aug have the most dmg lol
upbeat tundra
is aug op in pvp lol
hollow temple
is aug op in pvp lol
kinda yeah
upbeat tundra
what the frick
fiery timber
isnt outlaw strong in pvp
glass mortar
its their tier set rng proccing
cinder relic
isnt outlaw strong in pvp
Outlaw got some nerfs a bit ago
But outlaw has been very good in pvp for awhile
hollow temple
isnt outlaw strong in pvp
no
runic bough
Nah everything is nerfed on outlaw pvp only 5% effectiveness. 95% held back.
glass mortar
tey have a thing where they spawn multiple casts of upheaval all at once, and upheaval is proximity aoe, and it procs on all targets hit
so 2 guys can just explode each other randomly every breath
fiery timber
But outlaw has been very good in pvp for awhile
thats the reason why we are not getting touched in pve
i see
hollow temple
what
fiery timber
runic bough
Like imagine bf is nerfed by 50% in pve. Now imagine it's nerfed more in pvp.
hollow temple
the game modes are tuned separately
runic bough
hollow temple
and they nerfed RB by 20% in pvp
so outlaw is basically DOA from here on out in pvp
its gg unless they revert that nerf in the future
runic bough
What's rb
hollow temple
restless blades
runic bough
I see
hollow temple
outlaw's CDR
hollow temple
i wonder sometimes what goes through the people's heads when they make these decisions
hollow temple
"lets nerf the 1 spec thats the most under represented in pvp and make its rotation completely non-functional while we do it!!!"
like ...... what
runic bough
I like to smash Frontline until they learn what I'm doing and focus me
cinder relic
Every spec "Dies in stuns" but rogue is especially weak to just randomly dying in stuns, which is what a lot of team fights in BGs end up being so
hollow temple
How does sub and sin feel in Frontline of epic bg or just go for stealth kills?
assa does insane damage in big aoe brawls
sub mostly picks people off 1v1 and focuses map objectives
runic bough
Hmm
hollow temple
Every spec "Dies in stuns" but rogue is especially weak to just randomly dying i...
Did you see the new feint pvp talent?
Itās bugged and only works if you get auto attacked during the stun 
fathom bramble
I kind of miss when outlaw was super good at fighting other melee and you could just protect the flag from other rogues forever
frail veldt
Itās bugged and only works if you get auto attacked during the stun <a:ultraomeg...
Yeah the pvp development lately has been embarrassing
runic bough
Yeah so in Frontline of epic bg bf is nice because you don't need to prio. But sub or sin im thinking you'd have to prio a target and just hope your aoe spreads
frail veldt
Also I have a theory as to why weve seen less balance changes/rework stuff this recent patch
And it's because they've been working on rotation assist apls
And they didn't want to fuck up that work
So they prob paused it
For that feature to release and be tested
latent oak
i really hope the rotation assist has no bearing on class design
hollow temple
I kind of miss when outlaw was super good at fighting other melee and you could ...
Now itās only niche is grappling hook across maps
latent oak
but its inevitable i guess
runic bough
Hmm
cinder relic
I don't think the rotation tool will influence class design
hollow temple
Yeah the pvp development lately has been embarrassing
Idk how they think this is passable work itās insane
cinder relic
What ion said specifically about complicated classes is that "some of the extreme should be reined in" which I think is a fair statement
frail veldt
Idk how they think this is passable work itās insane
I think they've just been told to deprioritize it
runic bough
When they make AI do their work and not test the added code this is what we get unfortunately.
cinder relic
When a spec has conditionals, upon conditionals, it can get a little much.
While yes, not every spec "needs to be BM hunter, and more challenging specs can/should exist" but at the same time I think specs like Outlaw in their current form are a bit much
cinder relic
When they make AI do their work and not test the added code this is what we get ...
Fuck off with this shit
hollow temple
The game feels a bit too bloated
runic bough
Hey it was not a bash
hollow temple
Like just bare bones ādoing your rotationā isnāt hard in most cases and most people donāt need to know why you do X because of X when X, but thereās a lot of Xās now
runic bough
When things are not working on release, they didn't test it beforehand.
fathom bramble
Now itās only niche is grappling hook across maps <:garf_sit:1334889429449314456...
I just want to afk on a flag and kill sin rogues for 15 minutes
is that too much to ask
cinder relic
What does that have to do with AI doing their job bro
valid kindle
testing isn't a dev's job, it's a whole ass different role
runic bough
The way things are implemented just seem like a person didn't make it. It was generated is what it feels like.
cinder relic
U don't know what generated content is then
late swallow
I simply canāt believe rogue dodged another mention in these tuning passes
Guy you need to tweet more
tight kernel
16% haste unbuffed is so awkward, haste flask puts you at 20 and obv without too low for kir
cringe
latent oak
20% isnt the worst
runic bough
Wow a lot of addon updates rn guys, check your addon updates.
latent oak
but ya needing a flask to hit ur breakpoint is a bit cringe
wintry solar
Imagine not being a chad 19% haster
latent oak
same
tight kernel
zac is a flask gamer, i think last time i saw his char was like 14.9 haste or some
cinder relic
Guy you need to tweet more
I tweet when I feel its important
fiery timber
what did u tweet
wintry solar
Did you tweet about the outlaw being a bit much thing?
Actually I feel that's too broad
cinder relic
what
late swallow
Guy should start tweeting Ryukage takes
hollow temple
I don't have Twitter so I can't look at tweets
there's websites for that
frail veldt
When they make AI do their work and not test the added code this is what we get ...
People who think this just genuinely don't understand how AI works
icy cedar
do the devs still use Twitter, or have they moved to Bluesky
wintry solar
frail veldt
Or how developers use it
icy cedar
I used to tweet them complaints all the time
Ion read my tweets once because he quoted me in an interview
river escarp
I'm sure they're still on Twitter
hollow temple
Twitter.com
i mean you can use other sites to look at twitter without an account
wintry solar
this is why crackshot exists
Crackshot is too much work
upbeat tundra
i invited the highest rsham i could find and he could not perform the healing :c
upbeat tundra
think i just need to put the power word shields in the bag bro
tight kernel
this is just cringe minmaxing https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iU4c18Uo43jiApR58zaZAH
shell fossil
okay but what if outlaw got crippling as baseline
frail veldt
if u dont want to stack haste gears and rebel
How'd you fuck this up lol
You have 1pt fth but no pc
Thats brutal
runic bough
20% haste on gear
20% haste takem by surprise
10% attack speed trickster node
+5% haste flask????
now my ks will be perma lust quick
upbeat tundra
if u dont want to stack haste gears and rebel
this image is worse than just posting an image of a cock in here
gaunt phoenix
nice flair guy
cinder relic
nice flair guy
Used to be true
gaunt phoenix
yea i member
cinder relic
gaunt phoenix
how was bfa 7 years ago man
cinder relic
gaunt phoenix
frail veldt
https://x.com/Preheatwow/status/1917811323234111849
He's obsessed
upbeat tundra
i want to try scalecommander aug in phys comp
desert tendon
so
i zone out from wow today and i ve seen a tuning patch
i still dont see rogue
cinder relic
Asmongold, the guy who struggles to beat video games while skipping all the tutorials is very mad at accessibility features
frail veldt
Nerfs inc
proven ocean
https://x.com/Preheatwow/status/1917811323234111849
Idk why this guy thinks the 1 button rotation helper will work
desert tendon
yea indeed outlaw will get nerfed i dont know why i sense it
proven ocean
Clueless as fuck
