outlaw

[frail veldt]

whats even worse

is if we were like 8 or 10 target soft capped

discovering this bug

would be nearly impossible

[vivid vessel]

Soft cap at 5 is trash

[frail veldt]

yeah what tricks said

[runic bough]

If we had 100% bf dmg at 5 targets sure.

And our multipliers went above 100%.

[glass mortar]

Bf is not supposed to be 100% damage

[vivid vessel]

Ye

Only 125

Or is it 112.5

[frail veldt]

BF doing 100% to 5 targets would be very silly

[vivid vessel]

I don't remember

[gaunt phoenix]

112.5

[frail veldt]

I think the latter

[glass mortar]

It's funny it even scales as high as it does rn on 2t

[frail veldt]

so close

122.5

lol

[gaunt phoenix]

no i cant type

[runic bough]

[vivid vessel]

122.5 is skill issue

[gaunt phoenix]

11.1.5

[frail veldt]

its CODE!

our BF does 112.5 damage to two targets

in TWO major patches from now we will be in 11.2.5

bf uncapped in 11.2.5

!

[runic bough]

[hollow temple]

You’re starting to sound like Ryu

[frail veldt]

that was the goal lol

[frank finch]

LOL

[fluid iron]

outlaw gets uncapped the day FW gets removed from the game

[frail veldt]

fw?

[runic bough]

Yeah Mewo don't be like me they will start treating you bad. I can handle it but I don't want it on anyone else.

[fluid iron]

find wenches (weakness)

[gaunt phoenix]

filling wpree

[covert kestrel]

Flade Worry

[runic bough]

Wot

We don't have find weakness anymore

Or is that just sub thing

[brisk meadow]

We found it

[hollow temple]

Sub ye

[frail veldt]

ah

[runic bough]

Outlaw doesn't have a find weakness thingy

[gaunt phoenix]

yes it does

[hollow temple]

Kek outlaw found their weakness

That’s for sure

[runic bough]

What is it

Don't say gs

[gaunt phoenix]

secret

have to find it

[runic bough]

[covert kestrel]

find your weakness within

thats the whole expac theme

meditation and self-reflection

[runic bough]

Oh Tru

My bad

[late swallow]

the real final boss is realizing that you're only playing this game because of a habit

not because it's fun

[hollow temple]

Crackshot and haste

[frail veldt]

maybe you

[fluid iron]

i aint playing it

[hollow temple]

And mastery

[late swallow]

is this season of discovery?

[runic bough]

Also true

[runic bough]

No u

[gaunt phoenix]

thats oblivion

[vivid vessel]

How many bosses kill for a renown level

[gaunt phoenix]

uhhhhhhh

[vivid vessel]

And why didn't blizzard keep s1 system

[covert kestrel]

reject mmo and live service game hamster wheels, return to single player adventures, ascend from the bonds of instant gratification and become one with the journey

[vivid vessel]

Having to get home to do LFR before raid is cringe

I prefered the money

[fluid iron]

its lost ark

[hollow temple]

They gave me 9 renown for free with the latest bug fix

[brisk meadow]

Did you do all your rapports

[hollow temple]

[brisk meadow]

Does everyone like you

[vivid vessel]

Same but you need 10

[runic bough]

Same

I login yesterday and got r9 for free

[hollow temple]

I’ve cleared the raid like once

So I thought it was funny

[gloomy steppe]

even if it's a bit strange that “players” are analyzing and discovering these bugs (blizzard must have some tools for that?!), i think it's going in an encouraging direction with the 2 fixes.

with all the trash talk and banter stuff going on, that should give certain people here pause for thought. i think constructive criticism is definitely warranted and the overall state of the rogue class is simply outdated and definitely needs a rework. but some people here have come out firing against realz again and that's what i don't understand.

dude this is still a game. don't want to play the moral apostle but having a dev here is more of a blessing for our community than the other way around. also you don't know what kind of difficulties (rl problems, workspace etc.) the developers have, blizzard is not the company they used to be in the classic - wotlk days (negatively spoken).

[hollow temple]

Ye I was wondering how many it takes as well

[gaunt phoenix]

i think you need 2500

bosses up to bandit give 450

mugzee gives 600

gally 1000

[vivid vessel]

why so many words in my shitpossting channel

[gloomy steppe]

sorry zac, apologies monsieur 😦 pls dont le etat c est moi me 😦

😄

[runic bough]

Just FYI they don't fix bugs on outlaw in general unless it's positive. Negative bugs have to get publicity as we have proven this time.

[formal thunder]

do I cast AR even if I still have some duration remaining from earlier?

[gaunt phoenix]

generally yes

for the cps and energy

but you can hold it if stix is about to take off or w.e

[formal thunder]

aight, ty

[hollow temple]

That’s a weird way of looking at it and not wholly true

[gaunt phoenix]

Ryu

[glass mortar]

? They fixed subterfuge and stealth bugs

[hollow temple]

Sometimes things take time but it’s frustrating we all get that

[gaunt phoenix]

you have to stop

typing

[runic bough]

Well I wasn't bashing blizzard solo

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/stop-f111-gif-9344105

[gaunt phoenix]

you repeatedly think they only fix positive bugs

[gloomy steppe]

its frustrating yes, i agree ryu but the sentiment is wrong in my humble oppinion. look im playing this game since classic and my heart hangs on rogue - heck i even quited playing since 3weeks now after reaching 3.2k rio.

[runic bough]

That is just how we are treated

[gloomy steppe]

outlaws current state is demoralizing. but dooming wont help us

[glass mortar]

If you mean we the player sure

[gaunt phoenix]

We have 3 positive bugs right now that have existed for years

[glass mortar]

Ur outlaw victim complex is a mile wide tho

It's everyone I'm the game

Not just outlaw

[runic bough]

Yes they do fix negative bugs but it is not common place.

Tww we were happy about the subterfuge bug fix.

[glass mortar]

They fix bugs as they find them

[runic bough]

Subterfuge*

[glass mortar]

Veng dh threat bug has existed for like 3 years unfixed

[gloomy steppe]

Surely the coup quick hotfix also firing up this negativity

[late swallow]

even if it's a bit strange that “players” are analyzing and discovering these bugs (blizzard must have some tools for that?!), i think it's going in an encouraging direction with the 2 fixes.

with all the trash talk and banter stuff going on, that should give certain people here pause for thought. i think constructive criticism is definitely warranted and the overall state of the rogue class is simply outdated and definitely needs a rework. but some people here have come out firing against realz again and that's what i don't understand.

dude this is still a game. don't want to play the moral apostle but having a dev here is more of a blessing for our community than the other way around. also you don't know what kind of difficulties (rl problems, workspace etc.) the developers have, blizzard is not the company they used to be in the classic - wotlk days (negatively spoken).

[gloomy steppe]

and that we didnt get any compensations in return.

[gaunt phoenix]

do you remember when s2 df tier set was turbo broken

they do fix things

[vivid vessel]

ok

they

they did that to themselves solo

they created the mos convoluted bug prone tier set

for 0 reason

[glass mortar]

S2 set is one of the most bozo sets they've ever tried to make ngl

That was pretty funny

[late swallow]

New pasta goes hard

[vivid vessel]

no one asked for a fucking rolling damage dot fire mage thing

[glass mortar]

Reinventing ignite just for a 5% set bonus from outlaw

[vivid vessel]

they legit shot themseleves in the foot

[glass mortar]

And trying to make it work for trinkets and sucg

[late swallow]

The tier sets this season were a lazy copout fr

[glass mortar]

That was pretty funny

[late swallow]

With the gamba theme

[gaunt phoenix]

regardless to act like they never fix anything is disingenuous

yes i would like them to fix more stuff and faster

[brisk meadow]

"disingenuous" i need to google translate that

[glass mortar]

Yes. Especially so to act like outlaw is unique in some way for this

[brisk meadow]

[gloomy steppe]

put yourself in realz perspective. bruh would you help a community when all you receive is toxicity? afterall hes a human being aswell lol

[gaunt phoenix]

yes it should not take a wowhead post to fix Deft which was reported last tier

[gloomy steppe]

i remember when HO and Crackshot gameplay etc was put in place. everyone was hyped and the red carpet was rolled out here

xD

lets get back that fucking positive energy cmon guys

[runic bough]

Yeah df went well

We were happies

[brisk meadow]

positive energy while the spec sucks currently

shall i pull it out of thin air

or

[gloomy steppe]

Dude i know... do you think i enjoy CB first pull competing against tank ?

I just quit the game

[brisk meadow]

im super happy i play insane apm to only fight tank in details

[gaunt phoenix]

[gaunt tundra]

xd

[gloomy steppe]

Solo also went inactive some time didnt he ? Sometimes detox is good

Hehe

[gaunt phoenix]

i was free

[runic bough]

Yes Tww was very depressing for us

Understandable

[gloomy steppe]

perfectly agree ryu. tww is a nice addon but it also somewhat sucks in its entirety

bugs everywhere blablabla

our spec not enjoyable

and our class/spec is the vehicle for this content

even if the content is good - it sucks cuz we suck

[runic bough]

Tww made everyone reroll and try new classes

Never seen so many outlaws reroll

[gaunt phoenix]

and yet the least popular rogue spec is not outlaw

[hasty warren]

psf and brew 13 for fun to time

[brisk meadow]

depends on content no?

[fluid iron]

[gloomy steppe]

screenie looks sussy bruh FAKE NEWS 😄

[vivid vessel]

not sure thats even true lol

[runic bough]

[hasty warren]

is it

in m+

[fluid iron]

outlaw has 1k more parses in hc raid than sub does

[hasty warren]

we are 4th least played spec

below us it's aug, presevation and affli

[late swallow]

Sub is also down bad rn

[gloomy steppe]

Yo Zac - in July im on a trip to spain through france. any recommendations for special places in le grande nation?!

[late swallow]

Inb4 preseason nerfs

[runic bough]

Sub had a lot of hype too where did that hype go

[hasty warren]

it's pretty close to us

but we're below

[late swallow]

Sub got the dumbest nerfs before the season even started

And no compensatory buffs

Once it fell to the bottom

Blizz has 0 clue how to tune sub

[runic bough]

I see

[vivid vessel]

why did you take hc

weird

noob

[fluid iron]

cuz mythic is like fcking 4%

[vivid vessel]

ok well

[fluid iron]

of people that play the game

[vivid vessel]

m+ ?

the lil bar is outlaw

[fluid iron]

i didn't know how to pull that graph up so i gave up

[runic bough]

Heroic is the most parses every season probably

[hasty warren]

outlaw is 0.6% popularity

[brisk meadow]

My guidewriter

[hasty warren]

pal ret is 8%

[runic bough]

Mythic is not really a thing for casuals until bis gears is more common

[gaunt phoenix]

im actually dyslexic and read this backwards

[vivid vessel]

https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-tww-2/all/world/leaderboards-strict

[gaunt phoenix]

ye ok

we are fighting for #2

[fluid iron]

not surprised sub is higher in m+

[gaunt phoenix]

[vivid vessel]

i am

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

[vivid vessel]

well im not cause i knew

but im still surprised that its a thing

you know

[gaunt phoenix]

i would think outlaw tends to be favored in keys

especially all key levels

[fluid iron]

alot of people defaulted to sub in their keys cuz of progress

very likely the longer the season goes

the less people play it

more people go to assa/outlaw

kinda like every other season

[timber knoll]

can anyone tell me addon name that puts in party chat your interrupt

[hasty warren]

i think it's a wa but not sure

[vivid vessel]

ye thats true

thats from wcl

last 2 weeks

[timber knoll]

oh ok wanna fight about it

[hybrid crown]

Details announces interrupts in /say but I'm not sure if it also does party chat

It's an option

[gaunt phoenix]

yes

[fluid meadow]

i like party chat spammers with addons

[fluid iron]

buff sub frfr

[icy orchid]

YEAH I FUCKING HATE OUTLW TOO GUYS!!!!!!!

upvote me

fine ill do it

[vivid vessel]

crazy thing is that its objectively b etter than outlaw in m+

[timber knoll]

is sub capped as well?

[fluid iron]

i just wanna not feel kinda bad for playing it in raid

[vivid vessel]

at least you have that during prog

i dont

[gaunt phoenix]

nimble is but rest is soft

[fluid iron]

yeh

[vivid vessel]

like be honest stealthi

do you prefer your spec to be good on farm

[slate plaza]

Uncap bte in subterfuge

[vivid vessel]

or on progf

[slate plaza]

Problems somved

[vivid vessel]

give it to me straight

[icy orchid]

I JUST WANT TO DO MACHINIST WITHOUT HAVING TO PRESS KS ZAC

IS THAT TOO MUJCH TO ASK FOR

[vivid vessel]

april first post ?

[gaunt phoenix]

what

[vivid vessel]

at least its from blizzard

[gaunt phoenix]

ok

[vivid vessel]

so it will be by default trash

[covert kestrel]

Official blizzard hekili coming

[frail veldt]

yeah personal opinions on the users of the product that you work on should have no impact on your willingness to do your job

[late swallow]

[gaunt phoenix]

from blizzard

[gaunt phoenix]

who will maintain it

[icy orchid]

yheah i fucking hate blizzard too

[frail veldt]

if devs were giving unequal attention to specs who they liked the communities of more

[gaunt phoenix]

LMfao

[vivid vessel]

is this

[covert kestrel]

ONE BUTTON KEYBIND

[brisk meadow]

NO WAY

[vivid vessel]

an april fool post

guys

[late swallow]

hahahahaha

[vivid vessel]

[late swallow]

devoker players won't even notice a difference

[vivid vessel]

you know that shit is gonna be so trash too

outlaw will be spamming ss

[frail veldt]

wait thats not a joke?

[vivid vessel]

never spending ps

[frail veldt]

theres no way

[vivid vessel]

idk the video is 45m in

[icy orchid]

say soemthing positive

bet u cant

[craggy barn]

shrug its an accessibility feature and wont affect folks like us

who cares

[brisk meadow]

Positive energy please

[vivid vessel]

idk

isnt wow

whole gameplay

like

pressing buttons

[craggy barn]

zac

[vivid vessel]

what are we doing

[craggy barn]

its not for us

[tight kernel]

One button rotation is wild

[craggy barn]

its an accessibility tool

[proven ocean]

fun way to deplete 3rd boss workshop

good job blizzard

[tight kernel]

Sadly you know there’s people that can’t wait for that

[proven ocean]

good design

fucking monkeys

blade spawns on top of our asses

[zealous plinth]

I mean longer gcd with 1 Button means less dmg ^^

[late swallow]

[proven ocean]

another 18 key wasted

fml

[tight kernel]

Yeah but even then people are going to use it and brick keys left and right and wonder why theyvsuck

[vivid vessel]

nah its fine

you will have an addon

that tells you in lfg

who uses that

[late swallow]

you don't have 18 resil yet????

ngmi

[vivid vessel]

so you can never invite them

[timber knoll]

WTF IS THIS LMAO

AUTO ROTATION GG EZZZZZZZZZZZ

[fluid iron]

imma keep it 100 with you zac, i dont care what i have to play on prog, i enjoy prog too much care, like ofc i have a preference but everytime sub has been "bad" on farm i almost always go on a break

[zealous plinth]

You think blizz gonna use simc apl? Or just a basic rotation?

[vivid vessel]

but sub has never been bad on prog

like since i started in sl

it has been sub

every season

[craggy barn]

idk sub is bad rn aint it its near aug damage in overall all boss pepw

[vivid vessel]

do you even remember

what it is

[proven ocean]

tf does that mean

[vivid vessel]

imagine you had to prog every tier as outlaw

idk man

farm is whatever you can play any spec you want

i just one trick outlaw in farm

[tight kernel]

No shot blizz relies on simc for rotation add on

[fluid iron]

well ive played the game for alot longer

[vivid vessel]

if i do 0 damage so be it

[late swallow]

not gonna make it

[tight kernel]

Actually they prob will with AI help lmao

[fluid iron]

and i was indeed asked to not play sub on farm when it was REAL bad

[vivid vessel]

lol really?

[fluid iron]

well this was when it was TURBO ass

[vivid vessel]

i mean it happened to me a few times on a few bosses

but

if im long enough in a guild

i will jkust say no

[fluid iron]

like back during this time, we are talking 20% below the 2nd last class

[vivid vessel]

im not getting jailed in farm

[fluid iron]

and the worst part was

the playstyle was so much fun to play

it just did 0 dmg

[tight egret]

Wtf https://www.wowhead.com/news/blizzard-version-of-rotation-assist-hekili-coming-to-wow-in-patch-11-1-7-wowcast-376648#comments

[craggy barn]

fwiw the rotation helper likely wont be optimal play bc its not really needed as a tool for that. its likely just an accessibility tool

[brisk meadow]

the channel vibe

[late swallow]

rotation helper is legit just for afk questing/delving

[frail veldt]

well

I think the problem might be

[agile orchid]

is this why we are not getting real content?

[craggy barn]

no

[frail veldt]

this helper will increase the dps of a LOT of players

thats my wager

[craggy barn]

who knows

[frail veldt]

even at 0.2s gcd penalty

if youre a caster

that doesnt matter as much

dev evoker?

bro that shit is like 40 apm

gcd doesnt matter

[craggy barn]

depends on of they maintain it with real rotation (prob not)

[vivid vessel]

its not even that bad lol

[frail veldt]

so they will have to intentionally nerf the helper

[runic bough]

This rotation Helper will not increase players to reroll outlaw.

[frail veldt]

0.2 is nothing

[vivid vessel]

if they manage to make it good

[frail veldt]

if it actually players perfectly

[craggy barn]

it wont

[runic bough]

We need something to make more players reroll outlaw.

[frail veldt]

Theyre gona have to design it to do some suboptimal rotation stuff I bet

[fluid iron]

@zac back during this time i tried to sneak sub in on farm and my GM made a WA that checked my spec on ready check

[frail veldt]

essentially just hit the glowy button

[late swallow]

i wonder what they'll consult for the optimal rotation btw

[vivid vessel]

they wont need to design it that way

mewo

[late swallow]

will they use class APLs dev'ed here in disc??

[vivid vessel]

have you seen

[frail veldt]

LOL

[vivid vessel]

their new cooldown manager

[frail veldt]

okay fair

fair fair

[vivid vessel]

thats the kind of thing blizzard does

[vivid vessel]

swap during pull tinmer stealthi

15 pull timer

[fluid iron]

i tried

mfer had be on focu

s

[craggy barn]

its gonna be some scuffed basic rotation for each class to help folks get through basic content

[fluid iron]

he saw the cast

[vivid vessel]

[craggy barn]

it wont be useful for actual hard content

[vivid vessel]

@frail veldt

[frail veldt]

yo

[vivid vessel]

peep the rotation

[frail veldt]

but what if the optimal rotation IS the basic rotation

[vivid vessel]

its already cooked on arival

[light kernel]

is dead target bug huge dps loss?

[frail veldt]

wait was that throw dagger?

or whatever its called for assa

[frail veldt]

sometimes

[craggy barn]

then lucked into it

[frail veldt]

im guessing dev/rets are about to BLAST

[craggy barn]

and bm hunter

its gonna be like hekili but blizzard

so classes that are fine with hekili will be fine with this

[vivid vessel]

ye

xdd

[frail veldt]

very nice lol

[final sluice]

Is this for real?

[errant terrace]

We were mdntioned!

https://youtu.be/-hqJ210XWeU?si=GUTOS_mRp6n3KN1p

[covert kestrel]

the bigger thing is that will they have to use dev time to update their own hekili rotation each patch when shit changes?

[errant terrace]

Around 18:29

[frail veldt]

wym

[vivid vessel]

cant wait for new players to ask us why blizzard is telling them to press ss at 7 cps @gaunt phoenix

[final sluice]

they wont

[errant terrace]

The words outlaw rogue were said by Ion

Yippee surely this means we won't stay forgotten!

[craggy barn]

wtf whas he talking about to bring us up

[covert kestrel]

that you cant execute outlaw rogue perfectly on base ui

valid

[runic gulch]

he laughed when i told him i was outlaw at the london event

now i understand why

[errant terrace]

Buh

Oh nooo

D:

[frail veldt]

"how is someone really suppose to execute this perfectly with the base ui"

LOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[final sluice]

prove or didnt happen

[covert kestrel]

18:29

[errant terrace]

~18:29

[vivid vessel]

he said outalw ?

when

ok

[errant terrace]

Yeah!

[vivid vessel]

waiiits

[craggy barn]

just post the timestamp

[vivid vessel]

does this mean they will stop dumbyfying specs

cause they have this now

its over ?

[frail veldt]

no

other way around

theyre going to start nerfing difficulty

[covert kestrel]

were def getting dummified in the next rework

so that the addon will work better

[errant terrace]

Ok closer to 18:40, mb

[frail veldt]

at least in terms of requiring weak auras to do the rotation properly

[late swallow]

hahaha

[craggy barn]

why would they nerf dofficulty

[late swallow]

yeah like 18:39 is outlaw rogue callout

[craggy barn]

LFR exists

[late swallow]

ion knows!

[covert kestrel]

of the spec not content

[frail veldt]

theyre going to be looking at specs that require WAs to execute the rotation perfectly because they dont think that should exist

[agile orchid]

oh shit outlaw was mentioned

[red zinc]

For me its just like

[vivid vessel]

NO !

[late swallow]

glad poddyC didnt' drag dorki to this meeting

[red zinc]

Why are they adding another maintenance thing for them to the game

[late swallow]

he's a charisma black hole

[red zinc]

With nearly no value

[final sluice]

he said outlaw is basilcy unplayable with base ui - I dont want that retri-remake is happening to us tbh

[late swallow]

worst part of the podcast

[frail veldt]

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[frail veldt]

he LITERALLY mentioned outlaw

as the example

[covert kestrel]

oh were fukkkkkked

[errant terrace]

Oh

[cinder relic]

"We might rein in the extreme outliers but we want the base UI to display the information better" is what they said

[errant terrace]

Oh no

[covert kestrel]

its joever

[vivid vessel]

bro came in with the receipts

[frail veldt]

yeah it sounds liek theyre doing both

[vivid vessel]

except this is dratnos saying this

not ion

[cinder relic]

..?

[vivid vessel]

!

[cinder relic]

No its ion

[vivid vessel]

not these ones

[covert kestrel]

new dooming unlocked

[zealous plinth]

Please no that’s what I love about outlaw, all the minmax

[vivid vessel]

but ion essentially said the same thing

[vivid vessel]

so i will allow it

its ok

[frail veldt]

so theyre both going to be improving base ui to allow for the level of tracking currently supported by WAs but also adjust specs so that they dont need such complex tracking of stuff

[cinder relic]

This is ions quote specifically

[vivid vessel]

yes

[red zinc]

zac going to send weekly hatemail as to why the Blizzard Hekili hasnt integrated his 0.4% APL optimization

[hollow temple]

lmfao

[frail veldt]

yeah so theyre meeting in the middle

adding more ui functionality

[late swallow]

is combat rogue back?

[frail veldt]

but also adjusting spec functionality to not be so complex

instead of a stack that goes to 6 it probably will be on or off

[red zinc]

Blizzard keeping a vague promise AND outlaw getting patch note attention

Pick a less iconic duo

[covert kestrel]

Two button rotation might be too complicated for blizz hekili

[red zinc]

Itll be fun to see the posts in here when it comes out about what % of dps the blizzard APL does though, and nice for newer players

[cinder relic]

Well nowhere here did they say outlaw is getting patch note attention to be pedantic

[vivid vessel]

@remote pecan ytou are out of a job buddy start packing, blizzard replaced you

[covert kestrel]

is that the hekili dude for law

lol

[frail veldt]

I think theyre just referencing the bug fixes

[vivid vessel]

ye

[red zinc]

I could care less if it does 90% or 40% of dps im just curious how close blizz can get

[vivid vessel]

not hekilih

the other addon

but ye

[random stirrup]

Poisoned knife -> poisoned knife -> poisoned knife -> apply SnD -> apply poisons

[magic shuttle]

the idea of the rotation helper being incorporated is very interesting

[gritty hamlet]

they did say information needs to be displayed in game easily to justify complex rotations.

[vivid vessel]

I agree

[magic shuttle]

I wonder if it would react to gameplay changes like 1 pt fth vs 2 pt fth

[frail veldt]

Yeah tbh I think itll be good for the game

[vivid vessel]

blizzard ui is dogshiot

[frail veldt]

absolutely not lol

my guess is that the rotation will be VERY basic

[covert kestrel]

yeah but its prob easier to dumbify a spec than the develop a ui that tracks things well enough to play outlaw at base

[gritty hamlet]

Outlaw and Arcane both feel annoying to play without addons.

[magic shuttle]

I mean HO is probably gonna be well translated into the feature

[sullen wyvern]

Honestly it doesn't really affect me, imma just keep fucking up the rotation regardless

[red zinc]

ok last negative thing but if they want this then

WHY are they getting rid of literally every on screen visual indicator for procs by removing old ones and not adding any new ones

[magic shuttle]

kir and the container theory on the other hand

[zealous plinth]

I don’t get what blizz Problem is with external addons like weakauras

[red zinc]

like those are sick as fuck idk why they’ve seemingly stopped doing them altogether

[zealous plinth]

They should just admit they suck and addons are good for the game

[gritty hamlet]

I feel like they haven't stopped using the proc effects?

[vivid vessel]

ok but

isnt it concerning tho

[cinder relic]

..?

[hollow temple]

they've also started making things that don't even show up as a buff kek

[vivid vessel]

how they are trying to replace all popular addons rn

thoughts ?

[frank finch]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/blizzard-version-of-rotation-assist-hekili-coming-to-wow-in-patch-11-1-7-wowcast-376648

[vivid vessel]

[frank finch]

[red zinc]

blizzard can keep doing this stuff idrc, gotta take first steps at some point

[frank finch]

yea no outlaw changes

[red zinc]

Think they’re stretching themselves a little thin though

[zealous plinth]

I mean See the CD Manager

[frank finch]

busy making heleki 2.0

[vivid vessel]

why is there no details in game tho

i would delete details instantly

for a details in game that wouldnt destroy my game fps

thoughts blizzard?

[red zinc]

Thats one that they probably dont want to touch ever

[vivid vessel]

its prolly the most popular addon in the game

idk

[red zinc]

also just increase your update interval

[vivid vessel]

make it active only in instances kekw

[red zinc]

[vivid vessel]

who tf cares

[sullen wyvern]

just get a 5080 TI

[red zinc]

3s update interval supremacy

[sullen wyvern]

[daring oxide]

I think blizzard should leave the addon expertise to the addon developers rather than attempting to build inhouse ones, and then use that energy instead to having better QA every patch, fixing bugs and reworking outlaw 🙂

[vivid vessel]

my raid leader is going to be so mad wehn im gonna show up on my alt

using the rotation helper only

[sullen wyvern]

I agree, that's why I don't care if blizzard make their own addons as long as am I able to disable them if they dont work properly

[daring oxide]

i think they should attach a leaf icon or something next to your character

[vivid vessel]

if at least what they were doing werent some half assed

half finished

bullshit

[daring oxide]

if they enable this new thing

[sullen wyvern]

I would work on class balance (OUTLAWPLEASE) instead of shit no one is asking them to do

[cinder relic]

They are trying to make the base ui better, why is this a bad thing?

[red zinc]

They are making their “addons” in a way that they have to do all the work themselves

itll just pile up infinitely

[vivid vessel]

I think the cd manager is an embarassemnt

honeslty

[zealous plinth]

They State they don’t want the external ones in Long term

[leaden folio]

already mad at blizzard for this, like the 11.1.5 they dont even code 1/3 part of this addon

[vivid vessel]

its so bad

[leaden folio]

dont worry they dont work on it

[frank finch]

cooldown manager now hekieli , this stuff might be why the cpu profiling is now mandatory, they collecting info for this stuff

[patent mirage]

people that go mad about rotation helper didnt really listen to what was said

[vivid vessel]

where did they say that

[upbeat tundra]

this is the most toxic addon there is

[vivid vessel]

find me one player not playing with details

why does that matters

[sullen wyvern]

How is it toxic?

[slate plaza]

Details is not toxic

[red zinc]

Ok but if they combatlog top players secretly and use AI to make their apl they might cook

[slate plaza]

The people who boost abt their damage in vc and chat are toxic

[glass mortar]

theres precidence for this too

[hollow temple]

why is your damage so bad zac??????????? /kick

[gritty hamlet]

they literally said a built in dps meter is coming

[glass mortar]

anyone who played wod knows

[daring oxide]

i think details is incredibly important though, especially for LFG, helps to filter out whos actually playing bad or not trying when pugging so you can clean up the raid group optimally and bring active players

[glass mortar]

this is kinda a interesting direction i do think we are likely to be under the target for this tho

[daring oxide]

you have a lot of leeches these days who dont really try to play

[glass mortar]

outlaw is definitly an outlier to the playerbase in terms of wacky nonsense spec thats "super hard" to play

[zealous plinth]

At least that’s how I interpret it

[vivid vessel]

ye lets make every spec in the game bm

so i can finally quit

[gritty hamlet]

I think Outlaw is just too fast and I hate roll the bones.

[past falcon]

yea the amount of WAs i feel i benefit from in outlaw vs like, ret pally

goes crazy

[glass mortar]

the real question is like

[cinder relic]

Yes that is what ion said

Every spec is BM

[glass mortar]

how much of where rotations end up is intended by the devs

with this hekelii thing

[daring oxide]

do other games have this implemented ?

[upbeat tundra]

hyperbolic as always zac

[runic bough]

I keep forgetting to disable the cpu load display

[glass mortar]

how accurate can they actually make it

[vivid vessel]

np

[slate plaza]

My problem with all the in house shit is

Elvui and details and all that are like a nice bmw, gets the job done good car

Then fucking BlIzZaRd RoTaTiOn MaNaGeR is a shitty old camri missing its front bumper with a burnt clutch

I applaud the effort but it should be way more functional

[red zinc]

Need this to become a gambling play

[past falcon]

but idk beyond "this button has lit up u should press it" blizzard hekili scares me

[sullen wyvern]

Guys let's not start dooming yet, is not even friday

[red zinc]

Im guessing like 54%

[gritty hamlet]

we don't even know how accurate the rotation assistant is yet, wait for the ptr to come up

[past falcon]

we'll see tho, def a huge discrepancy between classes and specs that does need attention

[patent mirage]

wrong reply

also

[slate plaza]

I haven’t mentioned rotation assistant

I’m talking about what they’ve released so far

[frail veldt]

I often wonder this

[patent mirage]

you cant deactivate it

anymore

[upbeat tundra]

u guys know this is a fast track to getting killing spree fixed it, this ingame hekili is going to tell everyone to hit killing spree on cooldown and constantly die and make them change it

[frail veldt]

I cant imagine they put as much TC into the rotations as we do

[past falcon]

so true

[frail veldt]

so I figure theyre kinda doin it as an art

not like explicitly expecting us to play a certain way

[daring oxide]

i bet the blizzard assist wont ever use killing spree

[vivid vessel]

im not giving the rotation to blizzard

there will be a blizzard employe screening

[icy cedar]

Blizzard rotation helper isn't going to be updated regularly with whatever theorycrafters are cooking, it's going to be jankier than Hekili or HeroRotation

[gritty hamlet]

the cooldown manager is pretty decent tool?

[vivid vessel]

before you can access the rotation

[remote pecan]

fine with me, not like i get anything out of it i'll just get time back. TBH when i saw the new cooldown manjager i assumed blizzard are gearing up to remove the API / Addons from the game sooner or later.

[vivid vessel]

so they always have shit rotations no cap

[glass mortar]

this is at least a more positive fix then what they did in wod

[vivid vessel]

its so bad

[daring oxide]

they will steal it from you as you play

[glass mortar]

when there was a spec in wod that was too minmaxable and required WA to play they just deleted it

[daring oxide]

they'll use machine learning to learn from your gameplay

[glass mortar]

nerfed it so hard no warlock wanted to touch it for like 2 seasons

[daring oxide]

and copy Zac

[gritty hamlet]

hmm, seems perfectly fine on most specs, but I haven't tried it on Outlaw yet.

[daring oxide]

into their assist

[patent mirage]

in the future AI will play for you

[glass mortar]

oh

[icy cedar]

ChatGPT developed APLs for Blizzard Rotation Helper 😮

[glass mortar]

fuck

they are gunna have ai generating the rotations arent they

[patent mirage]

ai is everywhere

[glass mortar]

to try to keep up with the TCers without putting in the manpower

[daring oxide]

probably

[glass mortar]

unironically tho

[hybrid crown]

AI discovers and takes advantage of bugs

[daring oxide]

they could be vibe coding new features right now, could explain why 11.1.5 is still a buggy mess

[glass mortar]

tfw I pressed kspree because alexa told me to and i died

wtf blizzard??????????

[frail veldt]

lol pls no

[patent mirage]

"alexa use ks "

" ks being used is wrong "

[remote pecan]

that being said im waiting for an email from blizzard to drop in my inbox to do rogue rotation for them cause lets face it they gonna cock it up

[icy cedar]

I mean, Blizz can just pull from the SimC APLs for their addon can't they? Would they do that or would they try to avoid using public resources?

[glass mortar]

they could yea thats how hekelii does it

[hybrid crown]

"rotation helper enabled for assassination only"

[glass mortar]

the one button rotation feature is honestly pretty funny

[vivid vessel]

would you answer positively ?

losing all respect for you

[runic bough]

What we need is blizzard to play the game.

[gritty hamlet]

it's great for letting young people play the game.

[vivid vessel]

bro is about to be stealing our rotation to give it to blizzard

not on my watch

[remote pecan]

i would conditionally, if they also let me fix the rogue code in the live game 😄

[glass mortar]

never imagined this shit would come to wow ngl, they had rotational macro in tarisland

[icy cedar]

one button rotation with GCD delay for outlaw is absolutely hilarious

[glass mortar]

and u could get it pretty close to optimal

[runic bough]

Yes we need someone working on the inside.

[glass mortar]

at least they codified it being a dps loss yea

[icy cedar]

0 damage, and randomly killing spree into suicide

[vivid vessel]

0.2s

[glass mortar]

i mean playing outlaw with 1 button macro assuming it played perfectly, would be like a 20% dps loss

[vivid vessel]

is nothing

[glass mortar]

???

[vivid vessel]

imagine for assa dude

[glass mortar]

0.2s is like 20% less haste

[vivid vessel]

its litteraly not even a dps loss

xd

[glass mortar]

1 less ability every 5 abilities during ur burst as sin

?

its definitly a substantial loss

at least 5%

prob more

[vivid vessel]

ye sure

[glass mortar]

depending on spec

[vivid vessel]

whatever

spec is cooked

[glass mortar]

for us its probably like a 20% loss

funny how much itll vary

[slate plaza]

More

[red zinc]

mood

[tight egret]

That's also assuming it uses the optimal rotation.

[slate plaza]

Because then u have less ar uptime

And you just snowball into no energy

[glass mortar]

i was saying for sin

[vivid vessel]

rteal

[slate plaza]

Ahhh

Sin won’t get hit that hard

[bright crane]

I doubt it’ll be “optimal”

[slate plaza]

With one button rotation

It won’t be optimal

[daring oxide]

that would be ideal but might indicate they have less of an understanding on how their own class and specs function compared to those external to blizzard, wouldn't look good?

[bright crane]

It’ll probably be just enough to show relationship between diff abilities

[frail veldt]

yeah its going to vary widely on spec

[icy cedar]

any class that pools resources and doesn't use every GCD gonna be a one button king

[slate plaza]

But the fact is outside of lust u press a button every 2-4 seconds

[icy cedar]

so feral druid?

[slate plaza]

U can wait for the gcd delay to fuck off

U alr do

[bright crane]

An ability procs x, so now you click Y

[frail veldt]

thats not what it does

they explicitly said its a 1 button thing

[red zinc]

isnt there some classes that dont update their APL until after the patch has come out

[frail veldt]

press that button and it uses the "correct" ability for the scenario

[red zinc]

wouldnt be that great for them to implement

[red zinc]

even more random killing spree casts

you wont even know its coming

[bright crane]

I thought it was 2 diff things?

[slate plaza]

Imagine if blizzard finds a way to get rid of raid bots

[bright crane]

It can show you what to press next, OR 1 button to do everything

[red zinc]

ill start writing on the walls

big calculations

[daring oxide]

i doubt it'll even use killing spree, they'll purposely take it off the assist to avoid suiciding their own casual players

[icy cedar]

it depends on if a class/spec has an active theorycraft community.. some specs just straight up don't and get leftovers looking them over

[red zinc]

I mean yeah

[daring oxide]

im sure there will be abilities that dash, or loss of control of character that would be barred from being part of the assist thing

or hopefully

it'll update their development thinking

[red zinc]

I'm just interested in the application of AI on wow rotation / APL using a shitton of raid logs as a data basis

[daring oxide]

into creating abilities that dont cause frustration

[red zinc]

if its even possible

[daring oxide]

like killing spree

make the game fun

[icy cedar]

yes it's possible

i don't know if it would lead to good results >_>

[daring oxide]

I'm pretty sure machine learning applications can help this, its just about iterating again and again until the rotation reaches its average peak with constant slight changes to APL

something like that

[icy cedar]

biggest issue with using actual raid logs and presumably filtering for good players, is that people break optimal patchwork rotations

[red zinc]

I mean you wouldnt even have to get above like 80% of the way there

[icy cedar]

based on boss timings

and abilities

and if they get externals

[red zinc]

just something that automatically generates it for them

[icy cedar]

etc

[slate plaza]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Blizz is working on transferring wow to a more modern engine
The game has had 21 years of code evolution and bloat

[daring oxide]

well yes to play better you need to adapt to mechanics and stuff

[red zinc]

cause god knows they wont be able to do it for all specs in the game every patch

[daring oxide]

this is things APLs and Simc dont take into account of

[glass mortar]

zac

this is going to make

pug keys

so bad

"its not my fault im using the blizzard mandated rotation, if my dps is bad its their fault"

[daring oxide]

i was thinking it might be better

[remote pecan]

why they only mention hekili in the article

[daring oxide]

because some demons already do awful dps in weekly pugs

[vivid vessel]

me when i die from killing spree

[daring oxide]

and it might help them actually do reasonable dps

not fantastic

but enough to not be half your damage

[vivid vessel]

they are legit updating the arcticle as they are watching the video lol

idk if you noticed

its funny

[sullen wyvern]

that happens and then blizzard finally fix KS

I can see it happening in 12.0

[remote pecan]

i'm kinda only half here, kids bedtime but need to promote HR more , i spent a lot of time on it for rogue

[vivid vessel]

they are looking to make in game replacements for

• details
• big wigs
• plates

thats good

[icy cedar]

I can't wait until next season when we see people memeing about timing their +12s only using their one button rotation or an entire guild using the one button for CE

[red zinc]

yoo wait

they are making botting even easier with this

[latent belfry]

details ingame would be BIG

[vivid vessel]

ye

[red zinc]

hold casting with one button and just put a boomie in the middle of a hyperspawn zone

[vivid vessel]

and unlike that other guy siad

[icy cedar]

bots already do rotations better than players

[vivid vessel]

who said they would never do it

??

well they are doing it

owned

noob

[daring oxide]

'The goal is disarmament. Down the line, broader restrictions on what information addons can access to combat events in real time, but they can't do it now on the UI front, but also how they're designing encounters.'

Looks like they are working on killing Weak Auras?

[hollow temple]

noob

[next shuttle]

Has blizz mentioned anything about the BF hitting dead targets bug?

[daring oxide]

I think objectively blizzard wants to annihilate weak auras

[red zinc]

i got owned

[hybrid crown]

How they are designing encounters is nice to see

[vivid vessel]

was it you

[red zinc]

lizzard did something i didnt expect out of them they're changing

[hybrid crown]

I don't want another required weak aura pack boss like stix and brood

[royal ermine]

they say that but you know they'd already just make another echo or jailer either way

[vivid vessel]

it was you

absolutely owned

by ion

skill issue

[hollow temple]

Realz acknowledged the find, that’s about it

[daring oxide]

Improvements to the Base UI

They want to build their own features of popular things down the line: DBM / Big Wigs, Details, Nameplate Improvements
If there's a mechanic that requires you to do something between 4-7 stacks only, that's not a reasonable ask with this base UI.

** If they remove computation addons, they can remove some mechanics and keep the same level of challenge.**

So by removing weak auras they might make fights less annoying or easier?

[red zinc]

you got owned by dogwoofwoof

[daring oxide]

dunno what i think about that

[red zinc]

so we're even

[next shuttle]

At least that is something

Ty

[latent oak]

in principle its not bad right, but it all depends on execution

[vivid vessel]

..

[hybrid crown]

You have to wonder if they know about some of those bugs and just don't say anything

[frank finch]

u stoped using eye why?

[hybrid crown]

Like maybe that bf on corpses bug they figured out two expansions ago and have just been stumped on how to fix it

[latent belfry]

i mean like 20 people play outlaw, so makes sense kinda

[vivid vessel]

I got a magnet mythic

but now i have eye mythic

so im back to eye i think

[red zinc]

today in 7 hours (im extrapolating a 2 point data pattern)

heard thats good to do

[vivid vessel]

idk in higher keys tanks like to just take 10 min to setup a pack idk why

its legit bad

[latent oak]

dont think thats a high key issue

thats an all key issue

ur just more likely to pull for the tank in lower keys xd

[next shuttle]

I have a question regarding the bug. Does the bug mean that if you are doing a pull of 8+ targets, as the enemies die you are also not benefiting from Precise Cuts since the dead bodies count as targets?

[vivid vessel]

idk in mid low keys you have people pulling fast like madman

i like that

in high keys they try to be fancy

oh let me skip this pack

imma meld it

guys

im pulling 5 packs here

stuning this one with fear sygil

los this

los that

mf

just let me hit mobs

[upbeat tundra]

i agree but this only happens when vdh is meta

[vivid vessel]

ye well

fuck vdh

this meta

[upbeat tundra]

agree

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel

[vivid vessel]

of skipping

[past falcon]

"wait for pack" meanwhile my shroud is sitting here unused

[vivid vessel]

every pack

[upbeat tundra]

hard agree

[vivid vessel]

with sigil

[proven ocean]

whats the pi script

[vivid vessel]

is driving me crazy man

[proven ocean]

for

[upbeat tundra]

u have never been more based

[proven ocean]

sims

?

[vivid vessel]

idk ross

[upbeat tundra]

i fucking hate vdh meta and the constant need to do goofy bullshit skips

[proven ocean]

can u find it

or

[vivid vessel]

it cast it on cd during your cds rn i think ross

if you acrivate it

[tight kernel]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/real-time-combat-event-addons-planned-to-be-restricted-in-future-raid-content-in-376649

[vivid vessel]

one sec

[icy cedar]

give me bfa corruption prot warrior as the meta tank

[vivid vessel]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hollow temple]

the gnome squencer macro user noobs have won zac

[vivid vessel]

@proven ocean

[hollow temple]

how is this possible

[vivid vessel]

it activate pi on your dm

thats good no ?

what you want

just check it

[vivid vessel]

its fine i will still be doing 500% more dps than them

[icy cedar]

the problem i see with that is, they don't want addons to know you're in combat, but they'll still allow like.. buff tracking addons right? So people will come up with janky ways of figuring out what's going on around you based on character combat buffs

[vivid vessel]

fuck the noobs

i hate noobs

[remote pecan]

my guess is they'll pretty much remove access to the majority of the api in combat

or entirely

[hollow temple]

my sources tell me that one button rotation will be 96% optimal

[vivid vessel]

not for outlaw kekw

0.2 s

gcd

for outlaw

[proven ocean]

ok

[vivid vessel]

might aswell uninstall the game

[icy cedar]

I'll have to move my buff bar above my character to figure out what rolls I got once weak auras is killed I guess

[frank finch]

yea but that new system means outlaw rework incoming no more gcd stuff surely

[hollow temple]

there's already an addon being coded to remove that

[vivid vessel]

buddy will play with th rotation helper and havbe 30% adr uptime

guys

why

meh so low adr uptime

me no energy

wtf

halp guys

(im using blozar hekilih)

[icy cedar]

i mean casuals already don't play outlaw

[red zinc]

the real math question would be

[icy cedar]

have you ever actually looked at the casts per minute in an lfr

[red zinc]

what gcd would lizzard hekili need to have to do the same dps as sim

0.4s?

[icy cedar]

these people literally miss like 50% of their gcds

20 apm

[next shuttle]

I have low adr uptime because I die to KS like a real Outlaw Rogue!

[glass mortar]

yes

[next shuttle]

Ty

[wintry solar]

Can't wait to have to tell people to not listen to Blizzord hekilih

I can't trust blizzard to know how to play outlaw

[hybrid crown]

You can probably get ksh with blizzard hekili

[fluid meadow]

bruh, why do they want their own shit addons and others? why they don't deal with real things?

[frank finch]

wait hjold on

the exeample they used was outlaw and how random it is to try to use with rotation helper

aka

11.1.7 outlaw changes

hundo p

[icy cedar]

😮

[wintry solar]

11.1.7

[icy cedar]

but Outlaw works well with HeroRotation in my experience?

haven't used Hekili

Not very random just fast

cuz Outlaw is fast

[remote pecan]

HeroRotation for Outlaw is fuking baller, guy who writes that is a genius fr

[icy cedar]

Unless they mean their own rotation helper with its one button

and they were killing spreeing themselves into death

[wintry solar]

Outlaw new player friendly confirmed for 11.1.7

[gaunt phoenix]

who will get paid to maintain blizzard hekili

[wintry solar]

RiP Outlaw

[vivid vessel]

us but we dont get paid

they just take it

[icy cedar]

encrypt the rotations and hand out keys to access the guides

[upbeat tundra]

surely this wont be an abandoned project similar to making aug work correctly in logs

[icy cedar]

and simc apls

[daring oxide]

yup

[gaunt phoenix]

faq will be patreon locked

[wintry solar]

Zac they're making Outlaw new player friendly next patch

[daring oxide]

doesnt matter they'll send chatgpt to monitor you when your playing ingame and copy ya

[remote pecan]

and make all the githubs private

tho they probably already cloned them all before announcing

[icy cedar]

yo, what if they just use ChatGPT to generate their rotations from public info

and people can intentionally poison their rotations

but putting fake info in there

[orchid dune]

Just so you know, they're replacing me IRL, too.

[glass mortar]

omg is that him

its him @vivid vessel !

[wintry solar]

It's John Hekili!

[glass mortar]

[wintry solar]

Mr. Rotation himself

[vivid vessel]

wtf john hekili

love your work my man

[orchid dune]

I thought it was Hekili Henry tbh.

[wintry solar]

It's about to be just Henry

[late swallow]

[wintry solar]

I'm gonna make some shitty build and put the rotation helper on life support

[oblique cobalt]

So you can't do my taxes anymore?

[latent oak]

we call this one the ryukage special

[wintry solar]

I'm like 99% sure it'll be like "yeah dude send that dispatch in your crackshot window"

[late swallow]

don't disparage my king!