outlaw

[frank finch]

is stone form good for anyting on mugzee mythic

[glass mortar]

90% of my keys are as it

the way u cantradeoff ur vigor pool for dps or dump it into healing depending on the situation is very neat

a little less neat now that u basically need to dump 100% of ur vigor into damage if u wanna be half as strong as a disc priest

but still cool

[frank finch]

meanwhile we get to dump our energy nodes for cb

[sullen wyvern]

I dont remember that vigor mechanic, what is it?

you mean stagger?

[glass mortar]

no

sec boss

its the core mechanic of master of harmony

u get a new resource called vigor thats basically a value u store that caps at ur max hp

stores a % of all damage and healing (and stagger u purify i believe as brm)

when u use ur primary charge spell (chi shield brew as brm, thunder tea as mw) you "activate" it for 10s

and ur healing/damage is increased by x%, consuming from the pool until its all gone

so u can store up to like 15m of "burst" in the form of a huge ass dot, or additional healing depending on how u consume it

consuming it also puts a damage amp/healing amp on the targets u proc it on

visually u basically get a green glowing chi aura that increases in size and effect as u fill up ur vigor pool, im actually a big fan of the animation of it

[bright crane]

The bugs that are fixed - that’s on live ya?

[glass mortar]

ya

[frank finch]

oh shit gm fixed

missed that 1

[glass mortar]

ya

also u cant evasion reverb anymore

[light kernel]

Still hitting dead targets?

[glass mortar]

ya

[light kernel]

Cringe

[cinder haven]

I think the dead targets thing needs more work to not ruin something else

[glass mortar]

ye

[raven condor]

watch it happen anyway

[cinder haven]

Most common cause for new bugs is trying to fix old ones

[dusty mulch]

Does Killing Spree have a chance to trigger Mug'zee's molten gold debuff?

[upbeat tundra]

are u sure the dead target thing isnt fixed

[glass mortar]

wasnt when solo tested it a few hours ago post GM fix

[glass mortar]

every attack should, its just an rppm

[still matrix]

When BF gets fixed we gonna pop offff mee S tierr

[wintry solar]

Me S Tier

[dense bolt]

Wait no way

[glass mortar]

🙂

[dense bolt]

Sad

[glass mortar]

its a little monkaS because tbh

theres a lot of shit evasion works on

that is probably not intended

i hope they broke it by changing that mechanic some way unintentionally

[dense bolt]

its just a lil ring for 2 seconds tho

Oh well richard reverberation wins

[gaunt phoenix]

thats cooked

fried

deep fried

I don't remember a precedence for this

[glass mortar]

zeross already tested evasion to be clear

on some of the other cheeses

the one he tried worked so

hopefully they just changed something about this mechanic that broke evasion on it

and they dont look any further

evasion cheesing physical aoes is core rogue lore at this point

[wintry solar]

its honestly a feature atp

[last scarab]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[frank finch]

can i stone form frosty boots?

[wintry solar]

BLACK HOLE SUN

[harsh mural]

Maybe not the most appropriate place for this--but not sure where to ask--what community is best for trying to find grp to play m+ with consistenly / m+ teams?

[upbeat tundra]

theres nothing, you have to do a whole bunch of networking and social bullshit if you want to push keys

wait for fellowship it has a play button like every other modern competitive game

[rotund zodiac]

Imagine matchmaking for m+

Could solve my problems trying to push high keys

[raven condor]

low-mid-high elo m+ queues

[upbeat tundra]

works for every other competitive game that's been made in the last 15 years

[raven condor]

"there's not many players on right now, we're broadening the search for your +15 to include 2800io players"

[upbeat tundra]

have you ever signed up your key in lfg theres plenty of players

you just dont take them ebcause they picked the wrong class

[wintry solar]

My new mobo FREAKY

[red zinc]

Depends how you define works

But would probably be slightly better, although I think it’ll get real toxic in key levels where people know each other but arent quite that good

Cant wait for people to start talking about depleters queue and timers queue

[torpid fiber]

"i'm in losers queue" says dps player grey parsing

[umbral verge]

I think the problem with a queue is that any good healer or tank is just gonna have a team and you’re gonna end up with cast offs in those roles anyways.

[red zinc]

People on EU won’t queue just to avoid palou

[upbeat tundra]

this exist literally right now

[vivid vessel]

fuck

waht do i do

[red zinc]

Socket

[fathom bramble]

how soon can you just take 2 items that you want

[vivid vessel]

im never getting kezan

but im getting gally soon surely

thats like

not contested at all

3 people want it maybe

idk

wtf is this vbualt dude

[red zinc]

Do you use both capo and gally weap

[vivid vessel]

i took socket 3 weeks in a row before

and now i have to make a choice ?

thats so trash

FUCK

[fathom bramble]

yes

[red zinc]

i mean zinc it doesnt matter either way

[vivid vessel]

YE IT DOES

WTF WTF

WHAT DO I DO

[fathom bramble]

idk you just take Kezan and buy a Thumb from the vendor later if you have to imo

[vivid vessel]

i will buy capo

thumb so late

[fathom bramble]

if you want kezan for keys

[red zinc]

you wont be able to play outlaw in m+ till .7 (ks change SURELY) and by that time you’ll have all dinars

[vivid vessel]

i think thumb is like 0 value

[fathom bramble]

just loot a capo

[vivid vessel]

but its been nice not playing with kezan in keys

[fathom bramble]

thumb is more of a raid wep

[vivid vessel]

ok lol

my monk did one key

and looted remnant

and i got remnant

[fathom bramble]

like if your optimizing for keys the thumb is certainly the lowest value of the special items

[vivid vessel]

litteraly the only item i have

[red zinc]

Why does that character exist

[vivid vessel]

thats crazy no ?

ye i think thats crazy

[red zinc]

are you this down bad

Or is guild forcing you

[wintry solar]

Baby ilvl

So cute

[vivid vessel]

alt splits

idk

[red zinc]

okok

[vivid vessel]

oh well

shit vaults

gg

[fathom bramble]

my alt for splits is just another rogue

[red zinc]

Better than blueclassgood

[gaunt phoenix]

The monks brigading yesterday made a really convincing argument to play it

[red zinc]

Or whatever your shaman was called

[fathom bramble]

I must have missed something

is it worth reading at all?

[gaunt phoenix]

nah nothing

[fathom bramble]

I was kind of hoping it's monks trying to take their most bugged class crown back

[gaunt phoenix]

monk people challenged the authenticity of the wowhead article

[red zinc]

we got investigative journalists in here making infographic videos

How dare they question us

[gaunt phoenix]

probably cause they didnt get one for their own issues

[red zinc]

womp

[fathom bramble]

oh well

I think we may of understated how bad it can be in the article

losing 20% of our blade flurry damage in the most extreme case is a lot

[red zinc]

nah title is clickbait enough

[fathom bramble]

true

[red zinc]

balances out

[fathom bramble]

20% just from the GM bug

the corpses are like impossible to quantify without more work than anyone should do

[fathom bramble]

I think I saw this actually

[gaunt phoenix]

yea you did

[red zinc]

And all this started because zac was raging over KS

Who said ks was bad

[fathom bramble]

it's going to be a glorious day when we finally get that KS rework

[cedar kernel]

how are u brothers

[gaunt phoenix]

bacc

[haughty wigeon]

link

[random stirrup]

we rolled hoc today

[haughty wigeon]

baballoynus would never do something that cringe

[cedar kernel]

helo solo

[gaunt phoenix]

it was neither brigading nor challenging the article really im just dramatic

[haughty wigeon]

ah

[gaunt phoenix]

but there were monk discord regulars in here for a bit

[haughty wigeon]

cringe

[gaunt phoenix]

true

[vivid vessel]

It wasn't babylanus

[gaunt phoenix]

they fixed gm zac

stay tuned for tomorrow's round

or tonight

[vivid vessel]

Is it correct tho

[gaunt phoenix]

ye it is

[vivid vessel]

Or did they change it to multiplicative in the process

Nice

Big kir stonks

[upbeat tundra]

do they even do work or fixes outside of NA working hours

[vivid vessel]

Ye when they get home at night

They like fixing bugs

[frail veldt]

@vivid vessel when you get to 4 EB but still have UB stacks and are at low cps like 3 do you ever send a PS with BS or do you just dispatch at low cps? or do you just SS and burn the UB stack?

[upbeat tundra]

its 11:30pm for them

lol

[frail veldt]

so many fucking corner cases playing KiR

I swear

[vivid vessel]

With 1 fth I would have sent

2 fth is a lot tho

[frail veldt]

im playing 2

[vivid vessel]

Of cp.loss

[frail veldt]

yeah

[vivid vessel]

But idk I haven't played 1 fth for long

[frail veldt]

but coup dispatch damage isnt too bad

[vivid vessel]

It feels awkward to me

[frail veldt]

I def have been BFing even at low target counts

feels worth if its 2-3 targets

and then you get the cdr for bf

instead of burning a ps or ub stack or couping low cp

[vivid vessel]

Did you get my coup tracker btw

I forgot about it

You can just extract it from my pack

[frail veldt]

I havent yet

im so used to mine tbh imma get familiar with KiR again before changing anything else

shit fries my brain

[vivid vessel]

Eh

I changed my shit 4 times

At first I had 2 separate icons

Then I merged them and tracked with numbers

[zealous plinth]

You Play HO or KiR with 2 fth?

[vivid vessel]

Then I did that thing with cps

It's good

[vivid vessel]

Why would I play an inferior build

[frail veldt]

yeah it looks really clean too tbh

[zealous plinth]

You want to consume UB asap though no? Cause of the aa resets

[frail veldt]

well this would waste it

if I have UB stacks

and am already capped on EB

[zealous plinth]

Then i‘d send low cp coup. (For KiR)

If PS conditions arent met I mean

[night dragon]

Is the current bugs deft and blade flurry the ones that make it harder to reach those 10m or close damage pulls?

[upbeat tundra]

thats not a bug

you can only hit 8 targets

[frail veldt]

deft was fixed, 10 mil is def achievable but pushign past that just isnt gona happen with our current target cap

we literally dont sim much higher than that

[upbeat tundra]

we're built bad

[zealous plinth]

Deft is fixed, but Not bf targeting dead targets or am I wrong?

[frail veldt]

correct

[night dragon]

yeah thats the thing

idk if it even makes a difference

[frail veldt]

it will def make a difference

[upbeat tundra]

nothing to really do with what u were saying tho

[night dragon]

okay all good

then i can just blame it on me haha

[frail veldt]

youll have less moments where you do way less damage than you expect

8 target patchwerk sim is 12mil for me at 668 ilvl

full raid buffs

[zealous plinth]

Well it basically happens every pull if there are only 8 targets once targets start do die. In big pulls kinda rng.

• PC Bugs as well due to it

[frail veldt]

well unless youre running pc it doesnt matter

if you run PC then yeah you lose a lot to the bug

[zealous plinth]

Yeah without PC difference is minor I guess

[novel socket]

not a single myth track item from my vault is an upgrade

what is this

even compared to hero track items

[frail veldt]

even when upgraded?

[zealous plinth]

Welcome to my vaults

[novel socket]

yes

[rotund zodiac]

I’m kinda surprised that the negative bugs got fixed so fast

[novel socket]

we got more fixes ?

[rotund zodiac]

The BF one

[gaunt phoenix]

grand melee fixed a bit ago

[novel socket]

nice

hopefully bf is fixed too soon

and ks is removed

and we get softcapped

[fathom bramble]

randomly making rik slam undodgeable is a bit weird

[novel socket]

[novel socket]

fun detected

[rotund zodiac]

Waah? They changed it??

[cinder relic]

Worked for me tn

[crimson coral]

I am 645 ilvl with 2 set pieces. In my vault I have a myth track remnant of darkness and a hero track leg tier pieces (which would get me to 4pc with a catalyst charge).
I assume Remnant is bad since it is not listed in the BIS trinkets on wowhead. Any advice on what to go for? I also think I hopefully will be getting hero track pants or gloves this week from dungeons. But same it true for other hero track trinkets that are better than Remnant.

[fathom bramble]

oh it's in the pins

idk if it's just wrong

[gaunt phoenix]

what time

[rotund zodiac]

Imma try it in todays raid

[gaunt phoenix]

cause the hotfix was like 30 minutes into raid for me

after reverb kill

[cinder relic]

Uh

[rotund zodiac]

Gotta keep reducing our uptime.

[cinder relic]

we raid 8pm est to 12pm est

[zealous plinth]

May I ask where I can find those fixes, when there‘s no post about it?^^

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah i start 8est as well

hotfix was 8:30est

[cinder relic]

this game is so funny sometimes

[gaunt phoenix]

Hotfixes are detected by simc

[novel socket]

the big question now

[gaunt phoenix]

at least ones relevant to player spells

[novel socket]

do i get socket from vault or heroic house of cards for sub offspec

[gaunt phoenix]

why there are hotfixes at 8:30est is an open question

[frail veldt]

blizz is west coast

[vivid vessel]

So I need to grapple out

No way

[fathom bramble]

5:30-6pm pacific is a very common time to see hotfixes

[remote pecan]

they cant just fix outlaw bugs without nerfing us can they, I mean why no evasion on rik? more specifically why now

[gaunt phoenix]

oh

[vivid vessel]

Ye fr

Fuck this oùtlaw nerf

I feel attacked

Can't believe realz would fix richard cheese

[agile orchid]

is it a cheese tho

[stiff hawk]

I really dont get this fix, it really doesnt matter on RIk

[agile orchid]

I mean is it really a bug

[frail veldt]

I think conceptually its a bug

if they want people to move out

[vivid vessel]

It's probably accidental

[frail veldt]

they should have to move out

[stiff hawk]

Well is it?

Its physical

[frail veldt]

well the fact that they fixed it

is evidence enough

[vivid vessel]

Is it even worth it to go out

[stiff hawk]

and there were several Physical Circles that could be dpodged

[vivid vessel]

Isn't the stun super quick

[stiff hawk]

3 Seconds

iirc

[vivid vessel]

Nvm

[novel socket]

yeah

tried that

[stiff hawk]

I just hope

[novel socket]

the cc is awful

[stiff hawk]

You can still dodge Mines on Mugzee

[novel socket]

need to grapple out

[stiff hawk]

Maybe they fixed that too

[novel socket]

wait what

you could evasion those ?

[stiff hawk]

You can evade the DMG yes

when trigger

Because its physical

[novel socket]

oh the dmg

i thought you meant you wouldn't trigger them

when touching

with evasion

[stiff hawk]

No you trigger them

But dont get dmg

If you face them

[vivid vessel]

What can you even evasion this tier

Most physical stomps it doesn't work

[frail veldt]

charge on first boss of dfc

[stiff hawk]

Im so annoyed

You cant Cloak shit anymore

Cant Evade anymore

[brisk meadow]

Cant even vanish a dog jump

[fathom bramble]

it's so rare that evasion even does anything in raid

[stiff hawk]

Like whats the point of Immunities

when they dont work anymore

[frail veldt]

you can accidentally vanish the spray on 2nd boss motherload

lol

the accidental vanishes feel dangerous

[fathom bramble]

you should KS during it

[frail veldt]

couple of them can cause weird shit

[upbeat tundra]

it still works tho if u havent noticed

[vivid vessel]

Ye more often vanish just break everything

[upbeat tundra]

the spray is like invisible or some shit

[stiff hawk]

Like im really annoyed that you cant Cloak the Frostshatter Lances on Mugzee

[light kernel]

with these fixes HO or KiR?

[frail veldt]

It wasnt for me haha

[gaunt phoenix]

both !

[light kernel]

for m+ 😛

[frail veldt]

yes

[zealous plinth]

I‘m annoyed that we can’t cloak every KS 🤣

[gaunt phoenix]

you can pick one still, for me KIR takes over higher target counts and loses lower target counts

[novel socket]

for kir

is there any talent i could replace ghostly strike with ?

for more aoe over st

[zealous plinth]

Why you‘d do that? We suck in aoe anyways 🤣

[gaunt phoenix]

precise cuts in theory but pc has maybe been fake this whole time with the dead target thing

[novel socket]

i'm already running pc

hmm

[zealous plinth]

Doesnt kir Go PC anyways?

[frail veldt]

are you running 1pt fth?

[gaunt phoenix]

only 1fth can get both

[frail veldt]

take a point out of gs and put it in fth

if you want more aoe

in addition to pc

[novel socket]

yes

[zealous plinth]

wait for KiR ppl go 2pt fth now?

[frail veldt]

yeah you can drop pc

pc 1pt fth is only 5% ahead in dslice

and sim doesnt have the bug

so

[gaunt phoenix]

it's another choice

1fth is too big brain for me

[zealous plinth]

Ah true Never thought about the bug before ^^

[gaunt phoenix]

i dont want to get used to 1fth

[zealous plinth]

Im used to play 1 fth ^^

[novel socket]

what if i take out pc, gs and fth and go for both ho and kir

[frail veldt]

okay ryu

[novel socket]

[verbal fjord]

yo boys

i still have the lack to get my AR uptime above 90% https://de.warcraftlogs.com/reports/GKJjmaWbcCVAZ9nq?fight=last

can any1 gimme some tips on how to use ar properly ?

[gaunt phoenix]

your ambush casts are really low

you'

you're pressing sinister strike in stealth

[harsh forge]

KIR action bars

[light kernel]

is it a big difference in "higher target counts"

[gaunt phoenix]

for me kir wins 5+ target by 3.5-4.5% ish

kir 2 fth

[nova basin]

You not trolling yourself with mounting up or anything in between trash are you?

[gaunt phoenix]

in keys?

well you want to stealth

cause AR is active usually

[verbal fjord]

i dunno if its this problem /cast [known: Hidden Opportunity, bonusbar:1] Ambush ; Sinister Strike
BUT

[gaunt phoenix]

and stealth prevents AR from ticking down

[verbal fjord]

i only have 1 button for it safed

[light kernel]

with how much haste?

[gaunt phoenix]

kir must have ~19% haste

[wintry solar]

If you turn your dmg meters off and do baby keys you'll have fun.

[nova basin]

I’m saying by having low AR uptime, I usually have like 90%. Just trying to figure out why you would be lower

[light kernel]

i mean how much do u have

[novel socket]

is take them by surprise bugged ?

[gaunt phoenix]

i have kir haste?

[novel socket]

the tooltip for both rank 1 and 2 is the exact same

[gaunt phoenix]

its tooltip bug

the duration changes

but tooltip doesnt update

[novel socket]

👍

[cedar kernel]

[verbal fjord]

So in subterfuge always ambush instead of sinister strike

[gaunt phoenix]

my kir setup is kir haste and ho setup is a bit lower if you mean that

pretty standard

[light kernel]

yeye

[verbal fjord]

can i bind ambush on my stealth and im gucci like that ?

[light kernel]

thanks

[sour jay]

So did they fix grand melee or only the snap shooting

[gaunt phoenix]

gm is totally fixed

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah for that build

[wintry solar]

@runic bough think about an HO/KiR build but without audacity. Also, did you sim CtO talent into GSW?

[agile orchid]

Time for some compensation nerfs

[verbal fjord]

Perfekt and its maybe a dumb question but how do i start with the opening i usually do Roll>Flurry>AR>Stealth

then in pack using trinket etc

[gaunt phoenix]

blade flurry (on nothing) > stealth

rtb shortly before pack

open with AR > bte

[nova basin]

Ghost strike main target as the damage from BF will trickle from bonus damage to others, so ideally you want to be casting that sooner and trying to focus that target as much as possible.

[gaunt phoenix]

why german wclog so laggy

[verbal fjord]

Bte is wich spell

[gaunt phoenix]

[verbal fjord]

oh lol

[vivid vessel]

gm fix is a nerf

especially for ho

[verbal fjord]

so right before pack blade flurry ar bte

[nova basin]

Yea a goof snapshot is entire dungeon with GM, now it’s only when it’s active

[stiff hawk]

Word Length

frfr

[gaunt phoenix]

you bf > stealth few seconds before the first pack

[trail star]

Probably route issues

[verbal fjord]

Niiiicee thanks thanks

[trail star]

Sometimes i cant browse wlogs

I have to use a vpn

[gaunt phoenix]

yea i get that too a bit

[light kernel]

zac u dont play GS?

in keys

[gaunt phoenix]

ye he does

[desert tendon]

Zac doesnt play anymore

[vivid vessel]

????

especially if bf is getting fixed

i finally understand why there was huge variance in my pulls now

It's not a mystery anymore

So now I won't be low rolling anymore

Only 10 mil minimum every pack

I'm about to do 10 mil overalls you bozo

No capo

[stiff hawk]

Zacopium

[gaunt phoenix]

will be interesting to see the overall difference

[desert tendon]

Yes OK zac

[frail veldt]

yeah tbh gona be doing consistent 8m+ though still losing to tanks on big pulls

prob more tbh

10m+

[leaden folio]

evade no longer work on rik ???

[desert tendon]

No

Was too fun

[leaden folio]

on rik when he summon pylon you can actually evade to dont get dmg/stun

[desert tendon]

And too good

[leaden folio]

ok

there is priority for rogue apparently

[desert tendon]

I Heard on sub channel

[leaden folio]

not like we have bug to fix

[desert tendon]

Yes

[stiff hawk]

Its just weird bug fix

Like i thought its intented

So Evasion has some use

[desert tendon]

Its an aoe physical hit

Like whirldwind

Idk how and why it got changed mid patch

[exotic agate]

This season has been so weird with changes

[desert tendon]

Now u cant CD at 14s as sub

Gg

Sub only good boss is now trash

[exotic agate]

Things get "bug fixed" that really are not bugs

[stiff hawk]

Ye kind of annoying

[hidden bay]

step out step in

ez

miss like 1 global at most

[stiff hawk]

Step on deez nuts

gottem

[leaden folio]

maybe evade work like cos now

[desert tendon]

Aka

Doesnt work?

[leaden folio]

you have 4sec duration but for avoid dmg from boss raid, you have to use it the last second

[stiff hawk]

[leaden folio]

new patch, evade now 1sec duration

[wicked acorn]

what time do you reroll with ho build?

[trail star]

In cd unless you have 5 buffs

You can delay it with 4 buffs from cto

Specially in subt windows

[nova basin]

i feel im doing like 1mill dps less with HO on dummies aoe than before reset.

[wicked acorn]

AY THEY FIXED DEFT MANEUVERRS

WOOHOO

[vivid vessel]

they fixed gm so you cant lock it in perma now

[hidden bay]

kir stonking

[upbeat tundra]

Yea I was feeling like I was doing a lot more on kir and a lot less on ho

Which is unfortunate

[vivid vessel]

meh

[wicked acorn]

KiR better now?

[vivid vessel]

should be like that

[vivid vessel]

idk

[wicked acorn]

😔

[vivid vessel]

No one played around gm bug before

And people still played ho then

So

[wicked acorn]

yeah but deft fix

[vivid vessel]

thats not that relevant

+2% aoe maybe

[wicked acorn]

fair enough

[sullen surge]

what should i take? pacemaker no?

[wicked acorn]

pacemaker big

sim tho

[trail star]

Rlly

When

[wicked acorn]

8 hours ago

[trail star]

The fuck.

[sullen surge]

i think pacemaker just out of probability no? there are more changes to get a myth track chest than specifically pacemaker

[trail star]

Anything else fixed? Why do they fix only things that boost us

[trail star]

Meanwhile ks still has core issues

[wicked acorn]

id say so personally

[trail star]

Thanks its superannoying to check pins in the discord app

[wicked acorn]

all g

[vivid vessel]

i mean

[hidden bay]

they literally fixed deft which is a positive fix??

[wicked acorn]

and fixing grand melee is a good thing

[trail star]

Yeah thats okay, shouldnt have been bugged in the first place

[hidden bay]

well obviously 😄

but they are literally fixing negative bugs atm and you are saying they only fix the positive ones

[tender breach]

so now the BF - GM thing is fixed?

[trail star]

Using 0.5 instead of 1.1 seems a bit silly

[nova basin]

is it really worth a talent point in deft still though?

[tender breach]

we dont refresh BF for GM to be applied?

[nova basin]

nope

[trail star]

No, i am saying they fix positive bugs lot faster than negative ones

Like they have x100 more prio

[hidden bay]

not always

auda bug still there for a long time now

[trail star]

E.g just coup first bug, coup second buf

Bug*

GM

The bug we had with ER

Etc

[stiff hawk]

I still miss the ER Bug

!ERBUG

[hidden bay]

i get why they fix those tbf

[stiff hawk]

We need something like Shifting Powers

like MAges have

We can use for CD Recovery

[trail star]

Also we are still the only class spec that loses buffs at the start of a key

Kek

[stiff hawk]

when we lose uptime

[stiff glade]

A bug is just a bug. A "positive bug" very quickly becomes an exploit. People tend to get riled up quite a bit more when another class in the game uses an exploit to do more damage than them. Bugs will annoy the players of that spec - exploits annoy everyone else. I see why they would want to fix the "positive bugs" first

Not saying I like it, but I get it

[astral wind]

Just got haste vers myth weap in my vault, in an ideal gear situation are we ever playing a weapon that isn't one of the raid weapons with an effect?

(I'm currently assa will play outlaw for reclears after CE)

[leaden folio]

you play this one on mainhand for m+

always mugzee on offhand

and gallyweapon on mainhand for st

[astral wind]

Thanks!

[vivid vessel]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[nova basin]

im still doing way more on dummies with HO than KiR - but i am heavy vers and not got haste cap for KiR, likely why. - but something feels so off at the moment, i never used to play around the GM snapshot and i averaged way more damage than im doing now.

Been sat on dummies for about an hour now and i used to average 6.5m dps and burst up into the 8's, now im sitting at 5m dps average and bursting into 6m's

[still matrix]

Do we need to make any talent change considerations with the bugs? or same as norm

[unkempt dew]

How much haste is the sweetspot?

[coral onyx]

!haste

[ornate heath]

Total stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush lowers your GCD based on it, down to 0.8s at 25% haste.

The KIR build wants 18-20% haste from rating, because its only haste buff is from Alacrity.

The HO build meets this requirement with 8-10% haste from rating because of Take 'em by Surprise, but the new HO + Supercharger build continues to like Haste just because of energy, so you will have to sim. Your sim may settle for KIR-levels of haste (~18%) or slightly lower.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use.
You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[vivid vessel]

It was mostly negative for kir tho, very negative gameplay at least

[still matrix]

Are we playing double fan the hammer over pc because of the bug to bf?

[hot olive]

evasion dont work on rik anyomre

nooooooooooo

[vivid vessel]

@glass mortar in order,
st, 2t, 3t, 8t, slice

since you were curious last time

[coral onyx]

there isnt really a reason to have loot spec on outlaw if you have crafted MH and dont have raid progression right?

[vivid vessel]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/e8X4HjXkKHE6VJTYyHr8X5 this my ho profile
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/1CCwsVbmrm72HgKKJMJ9F3 and this is the kir (the one without pc)

[still matrix]

but that KIR has PC in the talent profile?

[vivid vessel]

the one under

[still matrix]

i see i see

[nova basin]

i play HO with PC

am i silly?

[still matrix]

Probz

[coral onyx]

huh

[vivid vessel]

and ye i guess kir being like 6% ahead in big aoe here is where slice is kinda lacking

you could say

[nova basin]

i just went by top guy on Murlok xD

[vivid vessel]

no its fine lol

well

unnequip pc for now

till they fix bug at least

[nova basin]

oh the dead guys bug?

[vivid vessel]

y

[nova basin]

ok ty

[hidden bay]

is it possible to even somewhat estimate how often bf bug happens?

aka how impactful it is for dmg

[tender breach]

I dont think its possible since it depends on the mob count - how fast they die if they die at the same time etc

every pull is different

[vivid vessel]

no but its very noticeable when that happen

look an exmaple one sec

the second one is the one i wanted to send actually

If you look right after when I press kir

My DPS is dropping down super fast

While I'm ace proccing with full buffs

It should be going up

Then you check the log and im cleaving exactly

0 targets

[tulip jewel]

xd

[vivid vessel]

I think it has huge impacts

In niche scenario

[hidden bay]

maybe im just coping that me doing tank dmg in big pulls might not be my fault

but im also just bad so

[tulip jewel]

just make the tank move it away from corpses xd

[raven socket]

I can't wait for dinars to drop so i can get my fucking Mug Zee weapon,i'm sick of seeing it drop and losing it,i'm crashing out so badly ffs

[cyan spruce]

Do you think blizz will ever make a fix or glyph for killing spree so we dont die when we use it

hm thats as expected lol

[leaden sentinel]

just dont die with it 😄

[cyan spruce]

thats a good point

there is a certain humblin when using spree and seeing an add cast some big aoe, knowing you will 100% die when spree ends

[leaden sentinel]

tbf, the first week when the KS tech dropped, i never thought i'd get used to using it...now I barely (once a week max by random accident) die from using killingspree itself.. if you know the dungeons / raids well enough, nothing will really surprise you

also the WA helps, not just your healer, but you aswell, i dont think it even procced the 5% threshhold twice in a dungeon from using it

[cyan spruce]

Which wa are you talking about?

[leaden sentinel]

i press a feint inb4 almost each KS aswell, its just a safety caution

[cyan spruce]

this is so real

[vivid vessel]

I die about once a key to ks

That's why I play cheat tho

[cyan spruce]

yeah i mean i have gotten better using it, however i did get a couple panic attacks doing stixx progg when i was afraid to burn trash

[leaden sentinel]

stixx is fucking cancer for melee

i never thought i'd hate a boss this much

my mage got dragged in for a HC reclear once

bro you just stand still and cast and sometimes you roll on a ball, such a joke

[cyan spruce]

so true, its so horrible

cant wait to be finished.

[still matrix]

i feel like

surely elusive is huge value

over cheat

even if you die once a key

i mean if you have a fat healer i guess not but

[cyan spruce]

i get if you get tired of dying to ks getting cheat is fine.

[leaden sentinel]

i pugged like 90% of my 13 resi keys with random healers, still using cheat, dunno

i feel safer, even if it doesnt proc

[raven socket]

It does not make sense thou that i have to use so many precautions when using it,it's supposed to be a skill i use on cd to deal damage not a math problem i have to solve

[leaden sentinel]

yeah well

thats what makes outlaw fun imho

dunno, i like the complexity of it

[vivid vessel]

For who

For the guy doing 18s sure

[leaden sentinel]

im just sad that i cant use trickster on sprocket

[nova basin]

is anyone decent at making weakauras that could just have a BF hit 'x' targets tracker on the screen that reads combat log?

[vivid vessel]

At some point you can't play cheat anymore

But playing ks without cheat ?

Omegalul brother

Why

[red zinc]

What

[vivid vessel]

Just wait for fix

[red zinc]

You want a wa that retroactively reads your combat log to see how many enemies you’re hitting?

[vivid vessel]

Reads event

Not combat log

It's not hard to do

I thought about doing it to have a more accurate range wiever

For bf range

[nova basin]

if you know you are standing in 8 targets and the WA is showing you are hitting 4, you know to move a bit around until you are hitting a decent amount

[vivid vessel]

this is getting fixed soon

[leaden sentinel]

whats the point ye

[still matrix]

doesnt it help if your healer is sleeping

[red zinc]

Seems like a lot of effort for hating life regardless

Logout

[still matrix]

idk like cinderbrew throw chair or something

[upbeat tundra]

Surely

[cyan spruce]

fck i miss the old acrobatic strikes

[still matrix]

that might kill you but you got evasion/feint

[nova basin]

a wa is a quick fix and a bug fix by blizz is soon tm

[rotund zodiac]

I hope so

[still matrix]

even on like a 16 that shit hurts

but yer tbh i get that with ks

cheat is just

chefs kiss

kinda

[crude flower]

Me too

[vivid vessel]

Cinder brew for rot damage, and rookery packs before second boss

Otherwise idk kinda whatever

I done 17 of most dungeon without elus

[upbeat tundra]

Is having 35% vers not a defensive

[vivid vessel]

Don't actually need it till you can't livr anymore

[leaden sentinel]

the 1% 😄

[vivid vessel]

I wish I could play elus tho

Don't get me wrong

[red zinc]

Just have 11m hp

[vivid vessel]

But like

With ks?

Hell no bro

It's too hard

[red zinc]

Dk’s have illegal amounts of hp for the amount of sustain they have also

[crude flower]

Just work at blizzard and remove spree

[red zinc]

illegal

[upbeat tundra]

Does ks bug out knock back effects for everyone

[red zinc]

ban it

[crude flower]

Do the world a favour

[upbeat tundra]

I feel like when I ks I’m immune to knocks for a bit

[cyan spruce]

Would you rather have killing spree or death from above if you could choose

[nova basin]

just make it so it does the animation of dashing around like DH dashy roundy roundy move and let you still move when its going.. easy.. class fantasy achieved and dont need to remove it 😛

[leaden sentinel]

KS

DFA is for pvp :- D

[upbeat tundra]

I want to be able to bte myself

[nova basin]

didnt used to be 😛

[leaden sentinel]

what would be the point of DFA in dungeons, you basically dont AA for seconds

[cyan spruce]

just for flavor

[nova basin]

energy recoup

[leaden sentinel]

[upbeat tundra]

I want to be able to turn friendly fire on for bf

[vivid vessel]

ye you are

or idk

the weirdly coded ones

i dont think its all of them

[leaden sentinel]

some of them, yeah you are immune to

[upbeat tundra]

I think it’s when you ks one of those casting knockbacks

Mid cast

[red zinc]

They should make ks pass on all the stagger to your allies

To really be on theme

[vivid vessel]

The immunity lingers aswell

[leaden sentinel]

i wish you would be immune to fucking nailgun in floodgate, i get so triggered when my 7cp KS gets cancelled after 1 because of a random cast

i'd tableflip no joke

[vivid vessel]

But I think it's mostly cause these knocks are weird

Cause it's a root

[jovial dock]

whos WA pack yall like to use ?

[vivid vessel]

You can also vanish them

[leaden sentinel]

yeah ik

but still

[upbeat tundra]

Oh shit really that makes a lot of sense

[raven socket]

What makes me laugh is that warrior can kick while they're bladestorming it makese zero sense

[vivid vessel]

talking about the bumps

[upbeat tundra]

It’s world of Warcraft bro wym “make sense” it’s a fantasy computer game

[raven socket]

Why i can't kick while i KS then lol

[upbeat tundra]

Why can I stand right in front of the monsters but they can’t see me

They should be able to see me from across the dungeon

[crude flower]

Because blizzard doesn’t care about rogue

But tbf blizzard doesn’t care about warrior too much either

[upbeat tundra]

It makes sense bro

[leaden folio]

always stress me out when im skipping with my team

but because I am stealth

this one robot that see invisible absolute 180degree to look at me

[upbeat tundra]

when u guys distract the robot at the end in the gauntlet in workshop

and ur fucking team just stands there

and the robot clearly isnt moving

but they sit there for 20 seconds just waiting like wtf

[timber knoll]

Any word on bugfix yet

[vivid vessel]

ping lol

people understand

[wintry solar]

What does this mean for pc?

[vivid vessel]

nothing

[wintry solar]

Mhmhmh

[vivid vessel]

@gaunt phoenix we ever tested if the initial bf hit scaled with all the things

Gm/pc

Nimble flurry

Solo I think

We should do a mega pass

Like eleem is doing

to find all the things not working

[wintry solar]

For everything?

That'd be good to know

[vivid vessel]

casue we always find stfufs randomly but there has to be so much more

[wintry solar]

Imagine how much you'd fi d with intent to find new stuff

[raven socket]

Wait,evasion on rik was a bug ?

[upbeat tundra]

dont have it bound

[timber knoll]

I feel like the bf hitting dead targets gotta be the biggest dps gain right

[red zinc]

Bugfix every day at the same time

This is the real content dripfeed

[austere maple]

😂

[leaden folio]

bro there is no patchnote or anything

i connect, i do hc with pug

got stun on rik , think its bug

got stun 2nd time, 3rd time, rage launch

FUN DETECTED

hotfix using your defensive cooldown because you are a rogue

[tribal surge]

Is there a post or something with the fixes?

[leaden folio]

no blizzard dont communicate

wowhead doing their job, why did they even gonna try

im so pissed

[daring oxide]

wait what evasion was working on the rik's reverbs aoe slam?!?!? i had no IDEA

@gaunt phoenix did they fix blade flurry/pc not working properly with dead targets nearby?

[plush mesa]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/heEbrkpvp1zCwLCDc9imRk can anyone tell me how this can be such huge upgrade?

[daring oxide]

why aren't these hotfixes being written down in any patch notes?

pls i beg

[sleek pelican]

!ss

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[upbeat tundra]

It probably will be at some point

[mellow thicket]

The first boss of flood doesn’t seem to be affected by dead mobs yeah? Think it was momma boss.

[vivid vessel]

You move it

So

[mellow thicket]

Damn, was thinking that was an outlier

[hidden bay]

hope they fix us soon man i cant do 5m overall in flood 10

[vivid vessel]

Skill issue

[hidden bay]

sorry im not skilled enough to move corpses away from the pack

[vivid vessel]

I mean tbf

Now that you know

You can play around it a bit

Ask tank to be slightly aware about It

And then stand on him

Since they kite back

Usually

[hidden bay]

ask the tank to move away meanwhile the tank chain pulls with 1 mob left with 1m hp. yheah hes gonna do that for you

[vivid vessel]

Backpedaling

[desert tendon]

Yes ask the tank gently

So he answered you no

Remind u something zac?

[hidden bay]

doing weeklies rn is cursed i wish we could go back to like 1-2 months ago im getting literally the worst tanks of all time

[vivid vessel]

[verbal fjord]

Quick question the jumkmasetro trinket do i wanna use it at 30 stacks or is there any below thing ?

[gaunt phoenix]

You can use it whenever cause the damage per stack is the same

The stacks just let you hold it for stuff

like floodgate first boss intermission

[verbal fjord]

ahhhh perfekt

[vivid vessel]

Ye it's cool to hold for damage amps stuffs

[fierce trout]

So everything else is "fixed" with BF aside from hitting corpses?

[vivid vessel]

That's the important part tho

[fierce trout]

Tru

[vivid vessel]

And fazed doesn't work

But also like

Builders modifiers

Like trickster one

[zealous plinth]

They don’t work either?

[vivid vessel]

Not for bf no

[rapid spoke]

house of cards every week meanwhile me with normal zee'thug hotline 😶
why my vaults so bad

[jolly geyser]

luck issue

[zealous plinth]

HoC ain’t do Bad though for m+

[silent marsh]

any rogue having issue not getting gilded of undermine since the post yesterday only works fix for 2h classes etc and rogue doesnt rly use main hand off hand but weapon and second weapon right

[sterile summit]

did they fix bf tho ?

[vivid vessel]

No

[vivid vessel]

Nice

[silent marsh]

was wondering if any rog didnt get gilded of undermin with highest ilvl ones equipped too

[vivid vessel]

I don't think anyone is 675 yet

Maybe wait for reclears

And we can tell

I think I might get 675 this reclear

[silent marsh]

i made a ticket but that will prob go no where

[vivid vessel]

Ye

[zealous plinth]

And I still sit at mostly hc gear due to bad vaults / no time for myth Guild

[silent marsh]

its showing MH and OH for me ilvl 10 with arftifact wep in bank, idk

[rapid spoke]

I think that ilvl bug is of least concern for outlaws

lol

[vivid vessel]

It do be true

I have more important things to worry about

Like nothing working

[zealous plinth]

And KS 🤣

[vivid vessel]

I actually depleted a key to ks yesterday

[silent marsh]

outlaws are pretty good around workarounds from bugs tho right, worth a shot

[vivid vessel]

Usually I don't

I might have deaths sometimes from ks

But actually depleting from ks

Oh well

[zealous plinth]

Do you send Full cp always?

[vivid vessel]

Mostly

[zealous plinth]

Cause im used to sending low cp during mechanics ^^

[rapid spoke]

developer fault not yours am I right

[vivid vessel]

Idk I think I'm one of the greedy ones with ks

Ye

[silent marsh]

got meadery 17 u can deplete with ks if u find a fix for achiev xd

[zealous plinth]

Maybe that’s the issue I can’t get to your dps 🤣

[vivid vessel]

Ye meadery we might need bf fix first

That's like the most apparent dungeon.

You lose legit 30% DPS per packs idk

[silent marsh]

prio is pretty bad right too

evne tho u timed that one

[vivid vessel]

I lose half my DPS on first pack usually

[silent marsh]

never see any outlaw gamers in my ques

[vivid vessel]

Not that bad for that bug I think

It's mostly dungeons with critters and way too many targets you know

[nova basin]

DFC

[vivid vessel]

Aka mewdery

[nova basin]

but thats easy to time

[rapid spoke]

you can always ask tank to keep moving from bodies

[zealous plinth]

PC would gain huge value though in psf i guess once it’s fixed

[rapid spoke]

I asked pre-start about that and got kicked

[covert kestrel]

Well it's a dumb ass spell to have in a game with floor mechanics so yea always

[vivid vessel]

Ye..

It's not always possible

I think first pull mewd it could be tho

Others tho, like before second boss

With all the casters

And the guy spanwing the shitters on cd

These packs are legit gg

[silent marsh]

did u time rookery already too ? i think thats rough for outlaw too

[vivid vessel]

Hm

[silent marsh]

at least if u going for 3 phase last boss

[vivid vessel]

Idr

[silent marsh]

not talking bug

[vivid vessel]

No I didn't

I depleted last boss

Cause it took 10 min

[rapid spoke]

rookery is alright tbh

I had no problem timing ks

[zealous plinth]

For rookery last Boss do you hold vanish for amp Phase zac?

[vivid vessel]

I think it's one of the worse ks dungeon but ok

[rapid spoke]

or maybe I just ran it so many times that I'm used to it

[nova basin]

floodgate is worst ks dungeon for me.

[vivid vessel]

Idk trickster cannot really hold

[vivid vessel]

It's mostly that there is a lot of timings you just can't press it

Which isn't really the case usually

[zealous plinth]

Yeah I’m Not Holding either, but only did 15s so far. So hard to find pug grps as Outlaw ^^

[rapid spoke]

motherlode was way worse

[vivid vessel]

Ye true ml does have some very annoying parts

Like the trash after first boss

That spams the aoe

And the bomb area

I think the rest is mostly ok tho

Trying to think

[rapid spoke]

bombs on path to last boss

ks likes to teleport straight on them

even 1cp

[rotund zodiac]

I usually vanish to force them target someone else first

[vivid vessel]

Ye it's a bit cringe

[rapid spoke]

it's not about them focusing you, even stepping on them triggers the explosion

[zealous plinth]

It doesn’t Pretty sure

I always Walk / KS on them

[rotund zodiac]

They dont if you’re not the target

iirc

[vivid vessel]

Ye

[rapid spoke]

maybe it was because I did it too quickly

and they didn't choose the target yet

dunno

[silent marsh]

or someone died and it changed target

but u cant soak them with bubble etc

[rapid spoke]

but had rough time yesterday with them

[vivid vessel]

I'm just unsure if it does damage to everyone close or only the guy that soaks tho

[zealous plinth]

When the big guys spawn one. They explode if you step into them before they Fixate someone

[rapid spoke]

everyone close to it

[vivid vessel]

Ah

[zealous plinth]

This

[vivid vessel]

How close tho

[silent marsh]

very very close

not like floodgate bombs

[vivid vessel]

Cause

[rapid spoke]

like 4 yards?

[vivid vessel]

I kinda just send ks

[rapid spoke]

maybe less

[vivid vessel]

I also send ks on these ones

For now it has been fine

[zealous plinth]

Same just not if fixated

[vivid vessel]

People don't stand on them usually

[vivid vessel]

I do

If I have cloak ready

[zealous plinth]

Yeah then yes

[vivid vessel]

The bombs in flood are free tho

Does 0 damage to soak them with ks

[zealous plinth]

Otherwise you dead for like 100%

[silent marsh]

ks connoisseur

[vivid vessel]

Ye I do be ksing

I just ks till I can't anymore

People would be surprised what you can get away with

I see too many people holding way too much

[rapid spoke]

praise off global cd feint

[vivid vessel]

Well you have to be willing to deplete a few keys to ks there and there tho

Goes with the lifestyle

[vivid vessel]

Ye true thank god

When ks is reworked imma have so much more energy tho

No longer will I need to press feint before every ks

[sullen wyvern]

What fg bombs you mean zac?

[vivid vessel]

The ones on the floor

First area

[silent marsh]

divers

[vivid vessel]

From the bombers in the water

[sullen wyvern]

Oh ok

[rapid spoke]

there's two bombers too, one before 1st boss and second after, on dam, but it's ez to stun them and go crazy with ks

[vivid vessel]

On dam

Idk

[sullen wyvern]

I've noticed there's stuff that doesn't hit you while KS that I would think it should. I probably should do some test runs and see what I can KS or not

[vivid vessel]

I don't remember a bomber here

Or you mean the guy that does the aoes on ground

[silent marsh]

i think he means demolitionist

we talking about divers that plant pace bombs

[vivid vessel]

I haven't noticed many things but it's the things that can be canceled by anti roots like with vanihs