there's still SOME danger assuming it locks you in place but at least there's some degree of control
#outlaw
tender wedge
glass mortar
what if we didnt necessarily need danger in an ability we cast once every 12s
glass mortar
the ww one roots u for like 0.5s and u can roll in midair and dash out of it to dodge stuff
upbeat tundra
until u figure out how to make ks not cancer just make it usable
median nimbus
what if instead of having to press killing spree that talent was tied to blade rush?
it would be somewhat boring
but it would be a lot safer
upbeat tundra
ok but also make blade rush do damage
median nimbus
ofc
upbeat tundra
it doesnt do damage
gaunt phoenix
do this and make sure it doesnt break shit
dont need 6 months of planning and QA for some trickster rework
mossy rock
gaunt phoenix
i mean they weren't going to delay the hotfixes already in the pipeline for this
gaunt phoenix
is it
covert kestrel
I mean realz showing up today makes me think that it's definitely getting fixed ASAP, just not in 24 hrs
mellow thicket
i mean they weren't going to delay the hotfixes already in the pipeline for this
But it took them less than a day to fix demon hunter?
covert kestrel
But it took them less than a day to fix demon hunter?
This bug being around for a lot longer, not just changing a thing that was broken last patch, probably makes it need more testing
Esp if the original intention was to make sure bf hits even when the main target dies which is something that still will need to be implemented if they fix the ded mob thing
gaunt phoenix
fighting for who can be victimized by bugs the most
upbeat tundra
whatever just fix ks
gaunt phoenix
mellow thicket
lol
covert kestrel
Well fixing ks isn't happening til s3 at the earliers
vapid sundial
ngl
green names use the word victimized too much
lost all meaning when they type it now
gaunt phoenix
i have typed it twice
brave lagoon
I've been slowly dusting off my Devoker the past few weeks to make the eventual transition less painful
gaunt phoenix
i miss d4
lone spear
yea im gearing the shaman too, hopefully enhance can scratch the APM itch if theres no outlaw changes in s3
fathom bramble
I miss d3
vapid sundial
i miss u
brave lagoon
d2 or bust
vapid sundial
ew
gaunt phoenix
d1
brave lagoon
I sense a soul in search of answers
vapid sundial
fathom bramble
something weird happening in this heroic
desert tendon
hardcap outlaw at 2 already so we dont suffer anymore
gaunt phoenix
yea im gearing the shaman too, hopefully enhance can scratch the APM itch if the...
you should try tanking no cap
fathom bramble
lotta dks out here
fathom bramble
everyone just made a DK alt all at once idk
lone spear
you should try tanking no cap
yea i do have the dh geared, could just swap to it
covert kestrel
everyone just made a DK alt all at once idk
ive had two fotm unholys in my keys today and both were total BUNS
lone spear
honestly my guild might need a tank given how we're 1 tanking mugzee next week cause our paladin is terrible 
timid idol
yea im gearing the shaman too, hopefully enhance can scratch the APM itch if the...
i went to ret
idk about s3
but this tierset makes ret similar to otl for me but with slightly less buttons sadly
when 4p procs its more or less the same as a subterfuge window with bte
lone spear
yea, idk
timid idol
it scratches the itch somehow, but ive also been thinking about ench shammy
lone spear
maybe ill just hop back on the evoker, play some dev and pres
keep outlaw as an alt
now that aug is dead i would be free 
torpid fiber
...is that the right blade flurry to fix the deft bug
gaunt phoenix
hmm so the blade flurry tooltip already says 110%
glass mortar
doubled
gaunt phoenix
but i guess it was not actually 110%
torpid fiber
...is that the right blade flurry to fix the deft bug
hmm
gaunt phoenix
Stawp using wowhead
hotfixes to the client are immediately detected and PR'd into simc
kinda banger
torpid fiber
oh shit
glass mortar
a deft fix would be cute
its not really a big bug but its funny this talent probably has never worked right
covert kestrel
KiR buffs/??/!/1//!/1/???
glass mortar
tbh
deft cp gen should be baseline
and deft should increase damage and give it two charges
two charge bf would be a banger for kir
gaunt phoenix
mildly confused by this change but i might be dumb
pure pewter
im also confused
fathom bramble
changing the AP ratio on BF doesn't seem like the correct fix
what we expect is that the talent is changed to actually effect BF instead
covert kestrel
might just be fixing other things while theyre working on Bf
fathom bramble
BF instant damage really needs to be higher anyway
desert tendon
definitly not, unless they uncap it and make it a 8 target softcap, so that would makes sens and live with the bug i guess
fathom bramble
maybe that's on purpose
covert kestrel
"hey, this spec is fucking broken, who did this??" -everyone at blizz
torpid fiber
yeah i was about to say that
glass mortar
why make the talent mod the damage when u can just make it cast a different BF that is double value
bro is this how they do
torpid fiber
yeah
glass mortar
everything on the backend
no wonder its such a mess
400 different ids of a spell
im sure theres reasons they do it
just seems like it must be a nightmare to work with
gaunt phoenix
yea i wont pretend to know better
torpid fiber
probably slightly more performant
glass mortar
what if they forgot to cap this bf
dawn talon
copium
glass mortar
desert tendon
what if on the other hand they capped it even more so now u can only hit dead mobs with it?
timber knoll
i think there is a compelling case for a WoW 2 bc clearly all the expansions systems, code, etc. is all just a nightmare to maintain
desert tendon
have u think about it weran
covert kestrel
i think there is a compelling case for a WoW 2 bc clearly all the expansions sys...
there is a compelling case against wow 2, it costs money
timber knoll
good point didnt think of that one
desert tendon
yea and they still, to keep a great playerbase, allow us to transfer all our char / items to wow 2
so that s even more coding nightmare
timid idol
my only question is
timid idol
why do hard caps even exist
can someone name a single hard capped spec thats good
you cant
frail veldt
Wow 2 would be an insane undertaking
timid idol
the purpose is my nuts
torpid fiber
what if they forgot to cap this bf
if i'm reading the spelldata properly it seems like these always have 8 targets or smth
i have no clue how they implement dancing steel, are there 4 versions of bf one for no talents, one for ds, one for dm, one for ds+dm
desert tendon
if a spec is hardcap to 8, then it s the best class in the game at that type of aoe
glass mortar
its just
desert tendon
they just failed at it
glass mortar
uniqueness of design
desert tendon
but their goal was clear
novel pier
wow2 would end up like ow2
glass mortar
they like to shake things up between specs in slight ways
timid idol
fury warrior is dead, outlaw is dead, windwalker is not really great either
novel pier
its the same thing
timid idol
uniqueness of design
glass mortar
theres no serious design reason for it
timid idol
such as people having fun in brewery first pull
glass mortar
theres never a benifit
timid idol
while others dont get to ahve fun :D
desert tendon
wow2 would end up like ow2
these words hurt my feelings 
i m happi with wow 1 finally dont change anything, maybe revert draktyr and evoker as well as brigitte and moira, tyvm
desert tendon
this tier
glass mortar
if we somehow always dominated cleave or sustain or something
fathom bramble
why make the talent mod the damage when u can just make it cast a different BF t...
it's 2 different spells so that one can count as a generator for our other effects without impacting the other one probably
desert tendon
it was weak enough to not be brought into any raid
fathom bramble
actually makes sense
glass mortar
🤷
should just be softcapped like everyone else
tune from there
its the way every1 works
covert kestrel
should just be softcapped like everyone else
no this makes too much sense
make half the dungeons impossible to pull past 8 targets in s3
ez
desert tendon
but we knew since tww announcement, dk will be a star. They worked so hard on hero talents for them, it was the selling point of the expac sorta. So Frost S1, uh S2, get ready for blood s3
cinder relic
UH is unplayable in raid
torpid fiber
if i'm reading the spelldata properly it seems like these always have 8 targets ...
someone please tell me i'm not going crazy
upbeat tundra
UH is unplayable in raid
does it have a button that kills your character
timid idol
whoever came up with a hard cap should be hard kneecapped
timid idol
there will never ever be a balanced game state where some people are hard and others are soft
ever
desert tendon
that s why so class are hardcapped, some soft at 5 8 20 or idk
Their idea was nice
They just totally failed at it
glass mortar
i mean its not like its the worst thing in the world right. ur not losing in 10s because of hardcap
but its just
not ever a positive, and it feels bad?
its never fun to see 20 targets
and barely any numbers
cause ur just not hitting them
timid idol
yes exactly it feels so dogshit
glass mortar
whats the point
timid idol
and it feels so unfun
glass mortar
even if ur not scaling well (WW for instance has very poor target scaling)
desert tendon
i mean imagine if outlaw was doing 6 times the damage of a moonkin in a 5 target fights
that would be balance, kinda
covert kestrel
and the whole content is basically designed around pulling as big as possible as much as possible
glass mortar
not growing in power at all from 8-16 targets doesnt feel fun
timid idol
theres no way that there doesn't exist a % damage they can put on BF so that its balanced while being soft capped
gaunt phoenix
upbeat tundra
target caps were fine when the game didnt have an unholy dk assembling a nuclear weapon that blows up the entire screen
desert tendon
imagine if sub was shining at 8 target caps, but boomie needed 12+ targets to start doing serious damage
Everyone would have his niche
pure pewter
probably more to come.
upbeat tundra
or boomie sending the entire constellation at everything in a 40y range
gaunt phoenix
> probably more to come.
<:copege:918305384488394824>
pure pewter
wym im playing rogue in keys
pure pewter
im suffering with you
glass mortar
timid idol
imagine if sub was shining at 8 target caps, but boomie needed 12+ targets to st...
ok this means everyone just invites boomies only at 14+
fun where
glass mortar
@vivid vessel i died in a 12 rookery to kspree stagger bug
was dead a whole boss cause someone else wasted 2 brez
felt like i was trolling
desert tendon
but i m fine with their first idea of why classes have different hard/soft caps. It s like aug, i m fine when they released aug. I m not fine when they failed at it and they kept it overpowered for 3 full seasons
pure pewter
just dont play killing spree
glass mortar
desert tendon
just assume after 2 months it was a bad idea and delete the spec idk
upbeat tundra
have u guys ever tried to hit kspree in workshop
glass mortar
me when my options r do like 20% less dps or play kspree
timid idol
but i m fine with their first idea of why classes have different hard/soft caps....
i agree with the aug thing, aug is incredible and it should be it's own damage type, like a support type, and there should be more specs like it for other classes
glass mortar
this things a fifth of my spec man
timid idol
right now its horrible
desert tendon
ok this means everyone just invites boomies only at 14+
that would also mean noone invites boomie in ws / top like keys
but again, they just failed at it
upbeat tundra
right now its horrible
i timed a 15 flood on aug ez
timid idol
i timed a 15 flood on aug ez
if ur good u can play anything, i meant more that it feels horrible with aug existing in the game
bcs its the only one
if aug is strong its -1 dps slot for you to get into keys
if it sucks its just lame
glass mortar
i got 3 5 buffs in a row and did 4.8m dps on first boss of ML, then i got 5 1 buffs and dropped AR on third boss and did 1.5m st
timid idol
turn aug into its own spec type and make more of it
glass mortar
timid idol
for other classes
upbeat tundra
aug is pretty fun right now the damage is just really bad
desert tendon
my main issue with aug is that it s not a support spec, it s a dps spec with a ton of utilities. I legit think it s in a good spot rn. More damage than a tank, less than a dps. Good spot for a support
glass mortar
bosses only 2m long
timid idol
ffxiv has ranged type thats basically aug besides one of them
wow can have aug type as well
torpid fiber
ff14 also has every spec 2min cd
timid idol
ff14 also has every spec 2min cd
yea thats dogshit
desert tendon
FF tried supports jobs, community disliked it, they reworked them all
timid idol
but the idea of a ranged supportive spec is good
desert tendon
i think
hollow temple
ff14 also has every spec 2min cd
There’s some exceptions to that isn’t there
torpid fiber
issue with supports in wow is that we have diff cd timers so if yours don't line up with support cds you jsuck
timid idol
i havent played since endwalker but i dont belive thats true
ranged jobs are exactly the same
still supportive
besides machinist
desert tendon
🤷♂️
gaunt phoenix
someone please tell me i'm not going crazy
for all we know that specific max targets field is not used or just referenced for tooltip purposes, and dancing is handled with server-side scripting
cinder relic
the issue with supports in wow is that the player base has decided that they dont like them
THe game also needs more of them imo
torpid fiber
for all we know that specific max targets field is not used or just referenced f...
makes sense
fathom bramble
supports have to be implemented in a very different way from aug for them to be okay
timid idol
i'd play the shit out of potion throwing rogue as either healer or aug type
desert tendon
i was a samurai one trick so idk much about others also havent played that much so dont take my word for accurate
cinder relic
I also enjoyed playing aug 
timid idol
i was a samurai one trick so idk much about others <:kekdog:907207037757296710> ...
ye dw i haven't played in a long while either but i have friends that still do and i saw that rangeds are mostly the same
desert tendon
i enjoyed being aug in a key where i dont belong and i was just chilling
my aug was so inflated
made me mad
torpid fiber
i think supports are a cool fantasy i just remember feeling sad when i saw an aug in a key in df s3 and knowing that if i joined that key i'd be trolling the group
desert tendon
oh yea that s an issue of aug
timid idol
supports have to be implemented in a very different way from aug for them to be ...
this as well
desert tendon
it doesnt do well with most melee classes and obviously non 2mn burst classes
fathom bramble
you can't have a support that benefits certain specs/damage profiles over others
or it warps the entire meta around it
which is insanely unhealthy for any game
torpid fiber
yeah, that's my only issue with support specs in wow
fathom bramble
it's like when 1 specific tank is insane in overwatch or something and now everyone on both teams is playing around 1 guy
desert tendon
aug was invented for mage anyway, u cant make me think otherwise. Intell buff aug, aug buffed buff mage. Gg infinite loop infinite damage
torpid fiber
i love the fantasy i'd probably learn one if they made a bunch but wow just can't really support the core principles of a support spec
cinder relic
it's like when 1 specific tank is insane in overwatch or something and now every...
Yeah but this happens with every OP character
I think aug was just like, overtuned for awhile
desert tendon
which btw, i think nothing is OP this tier, in m+ that is
cinder relic
Like when juno came out, juno was what sort of dictated the pace of the game. if you weren't good with juno u were a lot worse
desert tendon
when ow was juno ult vs juno ult
fathom bramble
the problem is that aug does this by existing instead of by being overtuned
when it was overtuned it was both problems overlapping and amplifying eachother
glass mortar
i really do wonder what they plan to do about aug
its not healthy to purposfuly leave a spec so nerfed its mathematically "bad"
frank finch
so its offical we need wowhead attention to get stuff fixed
glass mortar
but everyone is so happy
its gone
i feel like at that point u are at redesign angle or
it sucks hard if u actually like aug
fathom bramble
they just need to rework all the buffs it gives to other players 👌
timid idol
they'll just half ass it like most things blizzard does, see cross faction gameplay
you still can't queue cross faction :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
reason?
idk
nobody fucking knows
cinder relic
so its offical we need wowhead attention to get stuff fixed
yeah but I can't just ask wowhead to make an article about any random bug fix we want
timid idol
nobody fucking cares about faction war anymore
round dragon
soooooooo..... we're gonna riot right?
cinder relic
"Hey can I get an article about this random bug I want to get fixed?"
frank finch
yeah but I can't just ask wowhead to make an article about any random bug fix we...
yea i get it it has to be big enough while also attractive enough for clicks
fathom bramble
avoid reaching max stacks, and cast it during damage amps or more adds being available
there is also a bug where you can cast it on a low health mob to deal damage and preserve stacks if they die
gaunt phoenix
i mean every class discord probably has a compiled bug list that would make a good article
frail veldt
yeah
bladeflurry hitting dead targets is pretty comical
its a good read for sure
ive shared it with quite a few friends who found it absolutely hilarious
fathom bramble
especially since it's potentially been doing it since I first noticed in wod/mop...
gaunt phoenix
It doesn't have to be [breaking significant bug] kind of post
fathom bramble
very comical for sure
timber knoll
Tbh the outlaw bugs popped off on Reddit today
glass mortar
btw anyone have some turbo bugged wipes as trickster
maybe i was just lucky earlier in the season
two times in keys tonight, we full wiped
torpid fiber
especially since it's potentially been doing it since I first noticed in wod/mop...
realz literally came in earlier and said it was doing it since a mop patch
frank finch
raidbots had deft not doing dmg right?
timid idol
can we just get bfa outlaw back
fathom bramble
realz literally came in earlier and said it was doing it since a mop patch
I mean he said the flag was present since then
glass mortar
we came up the stairs in priory and 4 packs targeted tank and ran at him and murdered us again
fathom bramble
I'm not fully convinced that it has been hitting corpses this entire time
glass mortar
perma tricks feels abit bugged
fathom bramble
but it's certainly likely
cinder relic
It also didnt matter if it was hitting dead targets when BF was soft capped
It got capped in SL
So at the soonest, this bug has existed since SL
tight kernel
someone please tell me i'm not going crazy
in that ss, did they remove the "Allow Dead Target" Attribute for bf?
gaunt phoenix
No not yet if that is even necessary
fathom bramble
in that ss, did they remove the "Allow Dead Target" Attribute for bf?
that screenshot is not even the correct blade flurry for that to be checked
cinder relic
that flag might not even fix the issue fwiw
hollow temple
perma tricks feels abit bugged
iirc you just have to hit something in the first 30sec of the buff to transfer agro to make it work for the hour duration
still feels wonky though yeah
glass mortar
no i mean like, we had mobs taking like 30-40s to reset
even when i died like right after tank
it was funny
they would just suddenly run at us while we did another pack
cinder relic
Ik programming to a lot of people is "Hmm did you consider writing bug=fix in the code?" but that specific flag might be fixing some other part of BF bricking
gaunt phoenix
No yeah we really don't know anything
cinder relic
Hopefully its that easy of a fix
frank finch
monka
fathom bramble
yeah if that flag is the fix to another problem then you get into the problem chain
and are stuck for 2 workdays
tight kernel
Easiest fix is softcap bf
gaunt phoenix
real
hollow temple
no i mean like, we had mobs taking like 30-40s to reset
oh, yea. the leashing shit is wonky too
gaunt phoenix
raidbots had deft not doing dmg right?
yes but it also has adjusted deft priority. which will probably have to be reverted now
or not ill have to test some things
brave lagoon
I've had a priory completely brick itself when the caster miniboss just before the first boss evaded for 10+ seconds for no reasons at all
tight kernel
Guessing the daft hotfixes doesnt hit until server reset right?
brave lagoon
walked off some path ledge
gaunt phoenix
Guessing the daft hotfixes doesnt hit until server reset right?
No it should be live
novel pier
deft work
frank finch
i wonder if ho wants it now even
safe pasture
any hope for a fix tomorrow ? lol
tight kernel
For BF? Unlikely. I expect it to take a bit
safe pasture
damn =[
frank finch
esp if that line is holding up another fix
tight kernel
We needed to make sure Acid Rain got threat
quaint wharf
outlaw will be back in .7
hollow temple
cinder relic
This is zacs cinderbrew for example
late swallow
Those schizos seethe so much it’s insane
cinder relic
This is also cinderbrew
late swallow
more then i tought
Than*
cinder relic
This is like, the most aoe dungeon of all time
frank finch
late swallow
cinder relic
But yeah I mean
deft bug is kinda minor
I was always confused at how much ppl talked about it
Glad its fixed but
Yeah
It probs changes prio ofc back to what it was before
gaunt phoenix
i mean i didnt care until we found it changed prio
then it was like ye ok
Deft should not be worse than normal builders
proven ocean
@past ocean @past ocean @past ocean @past ocean @past ocean
;LETS GO
wrong channel
@past ocean split faction?
covert kestrel
zeross has a fan club now wtf is this world coming to
hollow temple
zeross has a fan club now wtf is this world coming to
harsh mural
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
Guy's - Afenar's Edit 
Luxthos Edit
Zac's Group 
Devlin
Utilities:
Combo Point Standalone
Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
Ace refund sound trigger
RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
Unseen Blade tracker
Fun:
Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
KS Ticking damage taken
harsh mural
!grandmeleeweakaura
hollow temple
!grandmeleeweakaura
safe pasture
does anyone know why sometimes you cant place tricks on tank? idk if its just blood dks or what but not sure what causes it
novel pier
is bro on mount?
safe pasture
i dont believe so there have been a few times where I attempt to put it on it does nothing and I occasionally will try again mid dungeon and it does nothin at all
but ill check next time if that is why that would be silly
hollow temple
but ill check next time if that is why that would be silly
can't tricks them if they're mounted
its odd but its always been like that i think
hollow temple
neural what
safe pasture
huh weird , does it clear if they mount too ?
frank finch
that thing that makes u immune to grips
mossy rock
neural silencer i think
frank finch
oh right lol
upbeat tundra
if its in open world i dont think u can tricks opposite faction
harsh mural
is the GM snapshotting a pretty big damage %?
frank finch
yes'
gaunt phoenix
yeah if you are aware of it
beforehand it was just kind of accidental whether you had BF benefiting from GM or not
harsh mural
and just to confirm, you wont need to recast bladeflurry again at all even if you cast RTB again and lose GM
safe pasture
been huge for dungeon starts today. fish for it pre key insertion sit with BF pre snapshotted and it stays when keyh starts
gaunt phoenix
and just to confirm, you wont need to recast bladeflurry again at all even if yo...
yeah you wont have to recast bf until bf itself expires
hollow temple
i didn't even know this shit existed lmao
fathom bramble
in the most extreme cases it's 20% more blade flurry damage
like if you were snapshotting no GM and carrying it for most of the key
compared to snapshotting GM and carrying it for most of the key
and that can be like 10% overall in a key
vapid sundial
Thats cooked
fathom bramble
in some of the logs I looked at I had basically no GM benefit due to how my BF casts were timed
shut lichen
i didn't even know this shit existed lmao
it's how you stop ur priests from gripping you when you don't want
same with evokers
it comes in handy
frail veldt
no i mean like, we had mobs taking like 30-40s to reset
yeah I had this happen
tricks sends aggro to tank after release
and it bugs them super hard
so if tank dies first
and releases while youre still alive or just have dots on the mobs etc
they will go full broken mode
I had them like evading for a minute straight in dfc
ngl it can be kinda useful sometimes
if tank releases fast enough
mobs just start running to the tank and you can finish the pack
fathom bramble
you could do this before perma tricks as well if you cast it close enough to their death
frail veldt
sure yeah
shut lichen
the real bugs are when there are none
mossy rock
how much dps was kir behind by? could the GM bug + deft fix mean kir is temporarily ahead of ho
shut lichen
how much dps was kir behind by? could the GM bug + deft fix mean kir is temporar...
pretty sure they were similar no?
latent oak
bug benefits ho more than kir
safe pasture
pretty sure gm bug strictly hurts kir
mossy rock
ah ok
harsh forge
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Class packs:
- Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
- Zac's Group Devlin
Utilities: - Combo Point Standalone
- Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
- Ace refund sound trigger
- RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
- Unseen Blade tracker
Fun: - Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
- KS Ticking damage taken
frail veldt
how much dps was kir behind by? could the GM bug + deft fix mean kir is temporar...
Deft fix could get it close
But I think it's still technically behind in slice
safe pasture
hurts in comparison to ho i should say it doesnt take away annything
frail veldt
Though in real keys KiR might be ahead
But with gm snapshot I think ho is prob ahead tbh
raven condor
But I think it's still technically behind in slice
I mean arguably the consistency of 5-6 buff with kir is better in real keys
frail veldt
Not really relevant if it just genuinely sims less
Considering it's harder to play so more likely to make mistakes
And arguably more punished for downtime
mossy rock
technically if you manage it right couldnt you get 90% uptime on GM's buff to BF?
frail veldt
As HO it's like 100% lol
mossy rock
but if you dont manage it, KIR naturally benefits more than not
safe pasture
ya ive been close to 100% unless i instinctively hit bf when i dont mean to
mossy rock
i say 90 just bc you have to proc GM in the first few rolls
frail veldt
Sure if you don't snapshot you're losing lots of DPS
safe pasture
and again you can literally start the dungeon with it
frail veldt
KiR is hurt less by gm bug if you don't play around it but HO benefits more from snapshotting cuz KiR can't really do it
So RN in a real key environment snapshotting gm ho prob does more overall
past ocean
<@173082992787456003> split faction?
💀
upbeat tundra
I don’t get the snapshottinf shit can you snapshot other shit to bf
raven condor
Imagine having a spec that works. Lmao.
safe pasture
I mean if they fix the bf bug and keep snapshot we will be in a pretty solid spot i feel like no?
mossy rock
if BF doesnt snapshot the GM dmg buff, has anyone tested if nimble fury works?
cobalt mist
I don’t get the snapshottinf shit can you snapshot other shit to bf
tl;dr
grand melee is a buff that gives us 10% damage on blade flurry
the way this is implemented is that whenever blade flurry is cast, it checks for if you have grand melee and applies the grand melee buff to all damage done by that blade flurry
shut lichen
I mean if they fix the bf bug and keep snapshot we will be in a pretty solid spo...
it'd be business as usual yes
cobalt mist
i think nimble flurry has the same bug doesnt it
mossy rock
id assume nimble fury would work the same way as gm
upbeat tundra
tl;dr
grand melee is a buff that gives us 10% damage on blade flurry
the way thi...
Does it check other shit and snapshot it
shut lichen
it does yes
upbeat tundra
How else can you abuse it
cobalt mist
Does it check other shit and snapshot it
as far as we know, no.
as funny as it would be for you to get like
permanent ghostly srtike damage
or something
upbeat tundra
There’s probably some other goofy shit we could abuse
past ocean
sure
prisma sapphire
so they took away our fun with coup
and still had some dumb BF bug in place forever
so demoralizing
glass mortar
ok tank delves r a vibe
this last part of achievements gunna be ezpz
just pull wall to wall and aoe it all down
covert kestrel
ok tank delves r a vibe
Tank delves are by far my favorite
So chill, pull a shit ton, drop a pacifier rig, so clean
raven condor
and still had some dumb BF bug in place forever
Blizzards most forgotten spec
covert kestrel
@proven ocean you know if you click them you can send them a message directly and in a private chat! 
hollow temple
it says in the pin
hollow temple
not all changes are always documented
raven condor
One would assume that the bf priority increases?
gaunt phoenix
deft priority could go back to how it was, i will have to see
sullen wyvern
how was it before?
gaunt phoenix
Deft still doesnt get 50% crit damage from trickster xd
raven condor
because why would it
sullen wyvern
raven condor
if it ain't work don't fix it!
gaunt phoenix
how was it before?
before you just slam bf as highest builder
but it could still want a cp rule
sullen wyvern
highest builder ignoring current cp?
gaunt phoenix
ye
sullen wyvern
interesting
sullen wyvern
how are you guys even noticing this without being posted?
gaunt phoenix
Hotfixes to the client are detected by simc
sullen wyvern
ah ok
long barn
Woah all we had to do was post it on wowhead?!
hollow temple
novel pier
nah ice cream machine still broke
upbeat tundra
Just fix ks pls
prisma sapphire
if they improved/buffed KS, fix this BF bug, maybe that would ease the pain enough from the coup bug fix
i seriously miss that noise though
of double coup
i loved the sound of it
prisma sapphire
woosh woosh followed by another woosh woosh
and knowing that you got an extra 5 CP spent
exhilarating
raven condor
Just fix ks pls
just make us damage immune. 3 xpacs of them trying and failing to "make it kinda not sorta work maybe kinda".
Just pull the fucking ripcord.
upbeat tundra
Idc just do it so I can play the spec in keys
raven condor
Real
"So should i ignore a huge portion of my spec because i will die if i use it, or just yolo send and eat concrete" is a horrid feeling
upbeat tundra
It’s unplayable in any serious content go try the shit in a 16 or 17 workshop let me know how it goes
Just can’t hit the fuckin button
raven condor
Yeeep
dense bolt
@cinder relic just woke up and read the post, great article
and gj to all the guys figuring this out
frank finch
vurai can sleep easy that he indeed was not losing his mind
tight kernel
So in theory with Hotfixes, can play Kir again
tender wedge
They're the real devs
someone on the reddit thread commented like "wow can't believe it took the devs this long to figure out" hahahaha
raven condor
So in theory with Hotfixes, can play Kir again
Just you wait there'll be another more annoying bug found in the next few hours
that was a load bearing bug
kir now doesn't benefit from restless blades
hollow temple
kir now doesn't benefit from restless blades
raven condor
lmao
frank finch
when yo get fixated by small adds on oab can we pop evasion and stay still?
hidden bay
No but you can pop vanish and make it someone elses problem
frank finch
yea but they get stunned like 3 times and refixate each time
agile orchid
Is bladeflurry fixed yet?
frank finch
afaik only deft has been fixed
so 1/4
deft still half bugged tho
doesnt benefit from trickster node
trail star
<:thinkingr:323965640765603841>
uhm is this attached to deft somehow?
hidden bay
so the fix was just changing ap ratio if talent is selected
?
that seems like not that much work
tender wedge
easy fixes first obviously
analog fog
ks tp removed?
hollow temple
The deft bug was known for a while already
So makes sense for it to get fixed first
tender wedge
ks tp removed?
yes, thank you for your service
proven ocean
Bro
Instagram reels are so annoying
Every 3 reel legit comes with 1-2 ads
??
And each ad starts as if it’s not an ad
Then ur like fuck
trail star
Imagine watching instagram
bright crane
how do u think the zuck affords a custom statue for his wifes birthday
and those sick new outfits
hollow temple
And each ad starts as if it’s not an ad
YT shorts also started doing that shit, its so annoying
cinder haven
ye it's the cast dmg for deft
Guess it’s time to rewrite the deft apl again
proven ocean
YT shorts also started doing that shit, its so annoying
YouTube red is op
frail veldt
ye it's the cast dmg for deft
when you say hotfix do you mean its like already patched in?
cinder relic
yes
hot olive
shout out to whoever pushed the article
cinder relic
yw
hot olive
goats
frank finch
shoutout to vurai for first notincing it in df
frank finch
well now we know if something big is bugged
find an intreserting way for wowhead to make an article of it
cinder relic
let it be known well in advance that I am not the "Wowhead bug report" service for any bug you guys feel like is worth making an article about
fathom bramble
zac , lok , guy , solo
most important step was someone(Zac) having a log where it definitively happens so we can actually look into it properly
the Vod+log was very useful
at least most important step to properly finding what causes it
cinder relic
I'm aware that people are going to make jokes/serious comments about it for a long time now
fathom bramble
I think if we had a good log like that instead of just speculation and feelings we would have had this found properly a year ago
it's also probably been doing this since we were capped without anyone really finding it
so I don't blame blizz in the least for it existing
earnest lake
Hi guys. I'm new here... Can u tell me the "best" rogue sub guide? I'm main tank but wanna learn rogue...
hollow temple
Hi guys. I'm new here... Can u tell me the "best" rogue sub guide? I'm main tank...
!guides
ornate heathBOT
Outlaw Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/outlaw-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/outlaw-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/outlaw-rogue
glass yew
Hi guys. I'm new here... Can u tell me the "best" rogue sub guide? I'm main tank...
Tie him up and throw him overboard into another chat!
hollow temple
there's also the FAQ channels here
frank finch
most important step was someone(Zac) having a log where it definitively happens ...
mean while sub eats from our law big brains
we require compensation
fluid meadow
it's also probably been doing this since we were capped without anyone really fi...
hardest part is that, outlaw has 100 interaction in 1 sec really hard to find things from line to line, idk if there is somebody who could make a thing for a log to datamining with script to just copypaste for the future to find the big/weird things instantly
earnest lake
Thanks guys
frank finch
glass yew
Thanks guys
frank finch
that has to be millions of gold
wicked acorn
that has to be millions of gold
Tens of millions.
If not hundreds
Really depends on the deals.people bought
runic bough
I just wanna give a shoutout to the staff of this discord letting us be here and all the pro players that help support outlaw players. Specifically @cinder relic @cinder haven @vivid vessel @gaunt phoenix @fathom bramble and others who help us. This is a big win for outlaw players world-wide getting some bug fixes that we would have otherwise been stuck with for who knows how long. Thank you again to those who help support the outlaw community.
-Ryukage
I recently started playing outlaw again for S2 TWW, despite the ks addition to rotation.
hollow dragon
I almost copy pasted that phew
main sorrel
Tens of millions.
it's so cheap in china, for M1-6 dev/shadow/warlock only cost around $10 in USD, hunter/DH is around $18
wicked acorn
***I just wanna give a shoutout to the staff of this discord letting us be here ...
I nominate @cinder haven as well
karmic solar
Hey I have a question my fine fellows, can you macro Blade Furry to anything rn
cinder relic
Blade flurry is on the gcd, so no
karmic solar
Fiddle sticks
shy meteor
Did the APL already change ? because all of a sudden KIR is simming higher than HO for me im dslice 
frank finch
prolly deft buff
frank finch
fluid meadow
yeah massive, does/should bf initial hit scale with pc? 
novel socket
is the bug that crimson vial doesn't work on the healing affix fixed ?
wicked acorn
Get owned ho enjoyers
Where the patch notes at 😔
@cinder relic beautifully written article https://www.wowhead.com/news/blade-flurry-dealing-significantly-less-damage-in-patch-11-1-5-outlaw-rogue-and-376587?utm_source=discord-webhook
runic bough
bright crane
We back to being kir enjoyers?
shy meteor
trail star
Get owned ho enjoyers
Imagine casting bf with no gm
vivid vessel
rotund zodiac
Time to go back to kir
magic shuttle
does bf snapshot the entire GM buff or only the portion that buffs bladeflurry?
vivid vessel
Bf
magic shuttle
ok so no need to keep it on st
vivid vessel
honestly the bug i want them most to fix is gm
its just so cringe to play around with deft
tropic zephyr
Yeah I'm never minmaxing for gm kek
vivid vessel
@desert tendon you seen the wait for it thing?
tropic zephyr
How bad is the GM thing on kir tho
vivid vessel
terrible
tropic zephyr
You perma bf anyways
tropic zephyr
Oh yeah cause as soon as you got gm you recast bf and you're done for the whole key
Hmmm
vivid vessel
y i dont think so
tropic zephyr
That sounds very cringe
vivid vessel
Because 10% bf damage sounds quite good
Compared to some cps
I think
- if bf is on cd when you get gm
You get fucked over even more then
rotund zodiac
Where rogue?
daring oxide
We stay bugged forever boys
rotund zodiac
frank finch
the deft fix is already in game so the others r coming
trail star
its just so cringe to play around with deft
KEK
I wonder why our fix is not in the blue post
vestal notch
Cant have people thinking they care about rogues
daring oxide
the deft fix is already in game so the others r coming
It is?!
Wait what when was that slipped in
Why don’t they just mention it in patch notes wtf 😂😂😂
stiff glade
It was hotfixed x hours ago
rotund zodiac
Why don’t they just mention it in patch notes wtf 😂😂😂
But when they fix positive bugs, they hang us for public execution
tulip quarry
rogue cant have fixes
raven condor
Why don’t they just mention it in patch notes wtf 😂😂😂
rogue patch notes are also bugged and don't work currently
runic bough
is there a wa for magnet?
I just got it from the cache
and it sim higher than mythic pacemaker
i mean i got it from heroic raid
I got this from cache
sims higher than mythic pacemaker
upbeat tundra
so how to you fix this bf-hitting-dead-target thing
frank finch
uncap it
frank finch
@hollow temple is this true
zealous plinth
It was hotfixed x hours ago
Only the deft thing though Not the GM?
pine belfry
which rogue spec do you think teams are going to use in the MDI?
upbeat tundra
which rogue spec do you think teams are going to use in the MDI?
no
zealous plinth
which rogue spec do you think teams are going to use in the MDI?
No rogues 
pine belfry
oh
shy meteor
Even if one spec would be strong enough, it wouldnt be outlaw
tender wedge
you might see some early with the new rules
but you wont see em in the push keys at the end
pine belfry
oh i understand
tender wedge
but yes if you do, it'll be assass most likely
pine belfry
I remember in bfa, Drjay playing firemage 27/4, and when the day comes out, was playing outlaw , what a nice memories
novel socket
<@629463378250956810> is this true <:HOLY:1250893440183570533>
that has happened to me but in pve
but its been a while since it happened
thought they fixed it
hollow temple
<@629463378250956810> is this true <:HOLY:1250893440183570533>
yeah there's multiple things that cause KS to just not go off in pvp
it can be very annoying but the spell still servers a good purpose
still matrix
We need some compensation buffs to uncap bf...
dont need to fix it if you just uncap it...
hit all the dead targets also..
ill take it
reef forge
Isn't fixing the GM thing just a nerf to HO users?
inland acorn
How would it be a nerf to HO
reef forge
They wouldn't have a buffed bf for 100% of a dungeon
inland acorn
You can say same about KiR though ?
reef forge
Kir uses bf constantly and if GM isn't up you lose the buff
inland acorn
With the bug, I don't think it's worth it to press BF even for CPs
reef forge
I mean anyone that plays kir without deft are just built different
Sounds like a biblical curse
inland acorn
If they fix GM bug, it will be overall slight nerf I guess
still matrix
love the bugfix nerfs
inland acorn
But I would rather have stuff like that work how it's supposed, rather than having weird snapshot interactions
Also with our average uptime on buffs, I don't think it's that big of a deal
reef forge
Does ho have high uptime on all buffs? Not played it since df
inland acorn
Lower than KiR, but still pretty good
Since you have 65% chance for 2 buffs and 17% for 5 buffs
runic bough
KiR fate is back in action guys
im doing normal dmg now
in m+
5mil aoe still okay for 10s
at least its not 2-3mil anymore
upbeat tundra
if all the bugs in that post gets fixed what does it mean numerically
cold falcon
15 percent more or less
cosnidering GM s snapshotted and sometimes BF just stops aoeing maybe more
reef forge
at least its not 2-3mil anymore
What changed to make it do more?
runic bough
some aoe bugs are fixed
need more bugs fixed still but this is nice
i just had 6 buff on last boss of workshop
hollow temple
if all the bugs in that post gets fixed what does it mean numerically
we can't really quantify the BF bug so there's no way of knowing
frank finch
we can quantify the gm bug
leaden folio
<@629463378250956810> is this true <:HOLY:1250893440183570533>
not sure it is the correct way to tell. but i started playing outlaw recently and KS end instantly when i am focus by the lightning pole on stix. and also stop instantly when i am stuck by some ability that pin you to ground
frank finch
like 15% dmg loss if u wernt aware
frank finch
well zac plays trickster
runic bough
well im enjoying no ks again
covert kestrel
Also might as well play HO rn so you can get perma GM before it's fixed
winged inlet
Fatebound is the play now? no KS? holy thats huge!
frank finch
no
covert kestrel
winged inlet
maybe a little? plsa
covert kestrel
If you don't care about doing damage you can do whatever you want!
long barn
we can't really quantify the BF bug so there's no way of knowing
I’ve been doing a nice job and keeping BF buffed ever sense someone shared that WA
hollow temple
i meant the dead target bug
long barn
Yea
vapid sundial
runic bough
KiR fate is so fun
im so happy guys
no ks like before TWW
aoe is smaller but whatever
our aoe sucks anyway
no ks is so nice
latent belfry
KiR fate is so fun
is fate back? can i finally stop using ks and dying to the mini bosses on TOP cause i didnt time ks right and got caught in their giant blue circle ???
vivid vessel
no its trash
latent belfry
D:
haughty wigeon
Play fate
Have fun
You don’t time cause of ks killing
With fate you don’t time cause 0 damage
But hey it fun
runic bough
its not terrible
gaunt phoenix
@vivid vessel this is what I think really happened
back in patch 11.0.2, when they reverted ace nerf, they also did this:
Blade Flurry initial damage increased by 50%.
For some reason this really was 50% AP -> 110% AP
They did this to the normal BF cast and forgot the Deft cast
gaunt phoenix
it does !
vivid vessel
I didn't remember they buffed bf initial damage
That's crazy
It really does nothing
tropic zephyr
Isn't bf initial damage softcapped?
gaunt phoenix
No its hardcapped
gaunt phoenix
but it can trigger main gauche on multiple targets
which will all flurry
which is idk mildly influential
fluid meadow
does bf initial dmg benefit from pc?
gaunt phoenix
Yes
vivid vessel
So deft is really 220% AP
Considering how big the number is
It's quite disappointing
How low damage it does
Right
I guess the fact it doesn't work with trickster modifier
gaunt phoenix
it should crit for like 600k now
which is idk fine
Ambush is 200% but gets the crit dmg
and can hit 3 times ofc
think deft damage should be fine even without trickster bonus
trail star
I miss some kind of burst
wintry solar
Don't say that.
trail star
Mass pistol shot or mass BTE would be fun
wintry solar
Someone will misconstrue that as "I want outlaw to be a burst spec"
lusty sparrow
Bte shotgun talent MUGA
trail star
Our mastery is the worst in the game right
gaunt phoenix
the opposite of crackshot where bte gets 5000% dmg 5000% more cd
wintry solar
What a coincidence
lusty sparrow
Bring back dreadblades and make it an execute
I'm really thinking about what I'm saying fr
wintry solar
Then it wouldn't be dreadblades lol
wintry solar
I put the dreadblades icon on shadow blades
wintry solar
What exactly was dreadblades anyways
Shadow blades
vivid vessel
think deft damage should be fine even without trickster bonus
I just don't like the fact idk if it's even worth for prio damage
lusty sparrow
I started playing outlaw on the "rework" in amidrassil
wintry solar
But it did self damage per finisher
gaunt phoenix
yeah i do
vivid vessel
And that's my main issue
It sounds like a funnel talent
But it really isn't
And that's a shame I guess idk
wintry solar
I started playing outlaw on the "rework" in amidrassil
Missed out
lusty sparrow
Yeah I know
lusty sparrow
My brother in Christ just said enh isn't fun
wintry solar
It's not
lusty sparrow
I'm effing fd
tender wedge
nawww ele is pretty nice atm
wintry solar
Yeah there's literally no way to argue its visuals are bad
lusty sparrow
Well I have depicted you as the virgin and me as the Chad
So what say you small fry
trail star
Make restless blades scale with our mastery
wintry solar
Literally me
lusty sparrow
pistol goes boom boom boom 手槍砰砰砰 infinite power無限的力量great shame for family對家人來說是極大的恥辱banned by heavenly decree被天命所禁止would do it again會再做一次
lusty sparrow
Isn't that just warrior mastery
lusty sparrow
Darn I didn't think that far
wintry solar
Bro thought he got me
wintry solar
Ezpz
trail star
Or make mg hit multiple times for energyband dmg boost
void canopy
wintry solar
I still want to try feint trickster
void canopy
we just need a outlaw prio target with a nerfed but uncapped bf
vivid vessel
If you uncapped outlaw rn and nerf bf it's worse probably
Idk why people think an uncap would be so op also
wintry solar
Yeah idk what that accomplishes
vagrant saddle
uncap would be op, nerf and uncap would be shit
wintry solar
How about
patent mirage
softcap
wintry solar
Uncap and buff
void canopy
true a softcap could be great, but really, i wanna a boss destroyer outlaw,
wintry solar
My idea is best
civic void
Idk why people think an uncap would be so op also
Same, and even it if becomes op you could just nerf other things ?
Uncap just means an additional tuning knob in my head
vivid vessel
Rn you would legit need a soft cap and a bf buff for outlaw to compete in real keys lol
gaunt phoenix
in bfa they adjusted BF damage like 6 times
void canopy
uncap is a quick but wrong fix to dead targets xd
wintry solar
If it's op, evidently you can ignore it according to unholy
vivid vessel
in bfa they adjusted BF damage like 6 times
Honestly I don't really understand why they don't touch bf more
But also
You buff bf
And outlaw get so much better in raid
But also
Maybe it's time
They have a way to tune differently between m+ and raid
But also a soft cap doesn't impact raid at all so
Free win