But in M+ yeah it's never been like a mega warrior szn afaik
#outlaw
vivid vessel
no lol
random stirrup
could certainly have changed since
upbeat tundra
isnt warrior's aoe stop target capped
bright crane
I don’t think shout is capped
The stun might be
They still have an aoe fear right?
upbeat tundra
i think the aoe fear is target capped
priests is too right
fellowship needs to come out already
shits cooked
unkempt nymph
any tips ? i think my dps are pretty low, comming from sin when i do 3m5 overall maybe wrong stat too
22crit, 16haste, 45mastery and 22 vers
upbeat tundra
why does ur details look so cursed
desert tendon
i think the aoe fear is target capped
it s not classic anymore
unkempt nymph
what do you mean 😮
cinder relic
any tips ? i think my dps are pretty low, comming from sin when i do 3m5 overall...
Likely just comfort, outlaw gains a lot of damage from comfort
fathom bramble
priests is too right
priest isn't, warrior is capped
but their cone stun isn't capped so they still have something
upbeat tundra
did this change since then
upbeat tundra
i definitely remember it being target capped df s1
fathom bramble
I think it was
they did that aoe stop patch where a bunch of classes got adjustments right
and we got aoe blind
upbeat tundra
it s not classic anymore
dunno y u typed this to me
idk whats goin on the game is goofy
scarlet drum
Just saw the wowhead article about bugs. So my dps on my rogue has been feeling super ass lately because of bugs?
fathom bramble
most of the bugs have been around for a while
upbeat tundra
Just saw the wowhead article about bugs. So my dps on my rogue has been feeling ...
no its just errors in the core programming
gaunt phoenix
any tips ? i think my dps are pretty low, comming from sin when i do 3m5 overall...
what build are you playing? HO?
proven ocean
@vivid vessel look at this cock
timber pebble
Ok so y'all claim that Blade Flurry snapshots Grand Melee on cast in the recent wowhead post, but there was no attached characterization of impact that seemed reasonable.
Grand Melee appears to have a very high uptime (somewhere around 65-75% in m+?), so that immediately smells bad when it is claimed that "you won't ever benefit from GM on BF without thinking about it".
I then looked at a few logs (albeit only for one dungeon) and never found anyone cast few or no BF during GM.
How is the claim of "if you aren't aware of this bug you are losing 10% Blade Flurry damage throughout an entire dungeon." Even remotely reasonable? Am I doing something wrong in this quick survey?
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BNafwLch1mG6tDxA?fight=9&type=casts&source=1831&ability=13877&pins=2%24Off%24%23244F4B%24auras-gained%24-1%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%240.0.0.Any%24true%24193358%24true%24true
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yhVq3FCQzHG1bXAf?fight=1&type=casts&source=4&ability=13877&pins=2%24Off%24%23244F4B%24auras-gained%24-1%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%240.0.0.Any%24true%24193358%24true%24true
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/nzCjYTXHaQ3fxDcd?fight=37&type=casts&source=406&ability=13877&pins=2%24Off%24%23244F4B%24auras-gained%24-1%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%240.0.0.Any%24true%24193358%24true%24true
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/YjHbhJxvzDKw4qgP?fight=1&type=casts&translate=true&source=1&ability=13877&pins=2%24Off%24%23244F4B%24auras-gained%24-1%240.0.0.Any%240.0.0.Any%24true%240.0.0.Any%24true%24193358%24true%24true
timber pebble
Does the target scaling bug also have characterization somewhere?
frail veldt
Just saw the wowhead article about bugs. So my dps on my rogue has been feeling ...
Start of tww is likely the origin but we don't know for sure
covert kestrel
blocked and reported
upbeat tundra
zeros you will type 10 lines in here with 1 word each on a regular basis
frail veldt
So not lately no
vivid vessel
Ok so y'all claim that Blade Flurry snapshots Grand Melee on cast in the recent ...
if you play ho you never press bf becasue its maintained forever by
!uuh
ornate heathBOT
- Stealth/Subterfuge/Dance maintains ADR buff
- ADR buff maintains Blade Flurry buff
If you are seeing very long buff timer (20 min type of stuffs), that's because Blizzard does not actually "freeze" buffs but instead slow them down a lot.
frail veldt
Ok so y'all claim that Blade Flurry snapshots Grand Melee on cast in the recent ...
Cuz Ho doesn't press bf for cps
So you press it at the start then never again lol
timber pebble
if you play ho you never press bf becasue its maintained forever by
Well it was clearly pressed more than never in all of those logs
Sooo
frail veldt
It's pressed if you drop adr
cinder relic
I mean I can ask to change the number if you want, but if you aren't aware that you need to snapshot GM you are just missing out on the buffs damage
frail veldt
But if you refresh it without gm then you're kinda at a loss
vivid vessel
Well it was clearly pressed more than never in all of those logs
its not never but basically you would not press bf in combat unless you knew about, like the usual ho thing would be to press bf prepull
(without rtb buffs even)
timber pebble
I mean I can ask to change the number if you want, but if you aren't aware that ...
Those logs indicate that people who are likely unaware (those 12 gamers) are getting a majority of the buff
vivid vessel
most likely
timber pebble
So...
vivid vessel
...
cinder relic
I probably should have said, "You are losing the 10% buff from GM"
frail veldt
Those logs indicate that people who are likely unaware (those 12 gamers) are get...
What's "a majority"
cinder relic
Not "You are losing 10% bf damage"
timber pebble
Not perfect but sure as shit not 10% of BF
cinder relic
it's not exactly what I meant
frail veldt
Cuz the odds aren't that high of having gm wen you press bf
timber pebble
What's "a majority"
Over half, click the links please :P
And in the higher keys more, but they may be aware
cinder relic
I can just reword the statement because it's not exactly what I meant with what I typed
scarlet drum
... am I not supposed to press blade flurry for combo points when I'm in heavy aoe...?
vivid vessel
And in the higher keys more, but they may be aware
no one was
quaint wharf
Theres also a possibility that you roll GM off first pull of dungeon and just keep the buff no?
timber pebble
no one was
Ok so they accidentally had nearly every BF in GM
fathom bramble
if your AR uptime looks like this then I guess it's less true
but if your playing in a key where AR is easy to maintain then your not really casting BF after the first press
vivid vessel
Ok so they accidentally had nearly every BF in GM
who
fathom bramble
which will likely rob you of all your GM uptime
timber pebble
The two higher keys I linked
mellow thicket
why are you looking at 4 samples and assuming that applies to the entire data set?
upbeat tundra
why you typing with ...
to be annoying
vivid vessel
ye i got that
cinder relic
I just reworded the section
gaunt phoenix
the article can be rephrased but the issue is that you normally dont refresh blade flurry so you wouldnt know whether it has GM bonus or not
So now that we're aware you should see a noticeable increase
vivid vessel
also i will not talk about the chinese logs
its not the same game they dont have the same info as us
they might knew
west didnt
cinder relic
Wasn't really the point to say "This GM bug is a 10% bf loss"
mellow thicket
crazy concept abilities should work the way the tooltip in game says it should.
cinder relic
But I mean, 4 log sample size is also dumb af
Either way, article fixed to be more accurate with what was intended
timber pebble
But I mean, 4 log sample size is also dumb af
I certainly am aware of that, but it was a hell of a claim.
Thanks for looking into it
vivid vessel
forgot the ...
cinder relic
It wasn't really a hell of a claim, it was a mispeak
timber pebble
Does the target scaling bug also have characterization somewhere?
@cinder relic any info on this one?
cinder relic
What do you mean, the BF losing targets bug?
timber pebble
Yes
mellow thicket
cinder relic
Yeah theres been a few logs being posted about it
vivid vessel
it happens mostly on bigger pulls since more mobs to die and lose targets from, mostly noticeable on pulls with critters and such
timber pebble
As in "how impactful is it" because it wasn't clear
cinder relic
Depends on a lot of variables
fathom bramble
it's not realistic to put a number on it
timber pebble
Any ballpark figures?
cinder relic
The point of the article isn't "These bugs are worth x% damage"
fathom bramble
it could be stealing ALL your BF or none
upbeat tundra
it happens mostly on bigger pulls since more mobs to die and lose targets from, ...
this is payback for all the critters we killed with coup in the last .5
cinder relic
The point of the article is that there are a lot of weird af bugs that exist that cost a bunch of damage individually
tender wedge
Any ballpark figures?
my gut instinct says ive been losing no less than 50% of my damage due to this
young prism
that reminded me the infamous "coup bug" early this expansion. How fast it has been fixed .. lol funny now with this I'm sure that blizz will sit on it for quite some time
lusty dome
it could be stealing ALL your BF or none
Ahh, thats clearly why my damage is so low. All 7 of my BF cleave targets are dead. That must be it!
vivid vessel
Any ballpark figures?
say the latest log i looked at, i spent half the pack cleaving one target instead of 7
fathom bramble
for example, your doing the first area of cinderbrew and your tank pulls new mobs onto the spot you just fought
mellow thicket
article points to problem > those concerned with fix confers with theory crafters or bug finders, resolution is found?
vivid vessel
its a very specific pack being looked at tho
fathom bramble
but your standing on a pile of bodies not knowing about this
gaunt phoenix
my gut instinct says ive been losing no less than 50% of my damage due to this
that seems a bit high lol
fathom bramble
you cleave onto 7 corpses and do nothing
tender wedge
that seems a bit high lol
im just that good, i knew it had to be external factors holding me down 😎
(am joking)
upbeat tundra
just put the blood beast in the bag bro
mellow thicket
just put the blood beast in the bag bro
the jorkin bag
fathom bramble
the problem is that cleaving onto corpses produces no combatlog event
so we can't actually track it
at all
gaunt phoenix
and yeah there's no way to quantify how often blade flurry is attempting to target dead mobs
lusty dome
Just realized my team will start pulling critters into the packs just to grief now.
hybrid crown
Will we get deft cps from corpses??
vivid vessel
no lol
fathom bramble
no
hybrid crown
Ruuudeee
upbeat tundra
love hitting 2 targets in 25 mob pulls while my unholy dk assembles a nuclear weapon
mellow thicket
stay at tank damage where you belong
timber pebble
and yeah there's no way to quantify how often blade flurry is attempting to targ...
You can certainly estimate it, but it's probably a boatload of work (would have to use position data from wcl and write a script to do so)
But if that never happened, that's certainly more than ok and I'll move on :)
upbeat tundra
boomkin in the back doing 360s hitting starfall doing infinity dps
mellow thicket
boomkin in the back doing 360s hitting starfall doing infinity dps
drooling on the keyboard doing infinite
timber pebble
Ty for answering questions (except Zac, an asshole as always)
timber pebble
you would need some kind of master wizard for that one
Not rocket science, just tedious
fathom bramble
But if that never happened, that's certainly more than ok and I'll move on :)
no one has been motivated enough to do that
realistically it doesn't matter how bad it is for us and we only really locked down what was going on like 23 hours ago
upbeat tundra
Ty for answering questions (except Zac, an asshole as always)
he's for sure an asshole but the way u typed was a bit infurating for sure
mellow thicket
wasnt the problem just discovered yesterday?
vivid vessel
yes
cinder relic
It's been tinfoil for awhile but the root cause and effect was learned about a day ago yeah
mellow thicket
lets apply all efforts in less than a few hours, i mean come on
fathom bramble
other than people who somehow knew something was wrong but never actually figured it out for 2 years
fathom bramble
we needed our tinfoil hatters to not give up when we failed to find evidence the first time
edgy walrus
throwback
mellow thicket
probably mad that brewmaster isnt getting any attention
covert kestrel
zac didnt even know 
vivid vessel
guess you just come in here every other year to be annoying gg
cant wait for the next apearance
tender breach
has blizzard answered on the BF bug? that maybe will look into it?
gaunt phoenix
Yeah they are
gaunt phoenix
aware
covert kestrel
guess you just come in here every other year to be annoying gg
upbeat tundra
has blizzard answered on the BF bug? that maybe will look into it?
its monday the shit just happened
fathom bramble
Realz is aware and called the spelldata flag Solo found a "nice catch"
mighty pivot
they said they will buff mages to compensate
fathom bramble
I'm sure it will be fixed in short order
upbeat tundra
its not even a bug its just a core programming error
fathom bramble
that's what a bug is
tender breach
ok hit me
mellow thicket
is @timber pebble a large outlaw figure?
covert kestrel
Realz is aware and called the spelldata flag Solo found a "nice catch"
kek small indie company kek
fathom bramble
put the wrong code in and the thing doesn't work
mellow thicket
is that wox?
fringe pawn
no matter who the messenger is
jolly geyser
should have put the KS thread on that wowhead article also
tender breach
I can take it and love u all
vivid vessel
maybe if she had worded it differently
cinder relic
its not even a bug its just a core programming error
LMFAO
tender breach
@cinder relic well I guess u'll laugh for many weeks
mellow thicket
the ability to aggregate superfluous datadata, doesnt indiacate all solutions....
rich cliff
what is the bf bug
lusty dome
So how was it actually found? I guess people were looking at it specifically instead of just randomly stumbling upon it?
lusty dome
Haha
rich cliff
lmao
mellow thicket
tc-outlaw has a good breakdown of it
rich cliff
wouldnt u usually do 0 damage on the 50 mobs that are pulled
vivid vessel
wouldnt u usually do 0 damage on the 50 mobs that are pulled
well i guess the more mobs, the more chance you have to hit dead targets
lusty dome
I mean more specifically the part with the attributes of allow dead target
vivid vessel
especially if its critters
mossy nacelle
whats the best enchantment for gear to buy?
vivid vessel
I mean more specifically the part with the attributes of allow dead target
lok had an intuition
fathom bramble
Zac had a good log of it with a vod that allowed clean comparisons and I noticed that it was missing 2 targets while having 2 corpses in range
vivid vessel
and it matches fairly 1:1 with targets starting to die
mellow thicket
whats the likelihood this is fixed within the day?
lusty dome
Damn, nice
fathom bramble
then it was just a matter of checking every other instance for corpses
and it all lined up
upbeat tundra
i figured it was just cause i went into the pack, pulled 20 mobs, lusted, i rolled a 1 buff, ace didnt proc, and i was hitting sinister strike while my unholy dk was preparing a 500 megaton nuclear weapon
fathom bramble
corpses are also culled very quickly in raid which contributed to this not being found sooner
since I mostly looked at readily available raid logs in the past instead of dungeon logs that no one had
gaunt phoenix
My clip and log also exactly matches 2 targets dying and then bf continues to try to hit them cause i didnt move
vivid vessel
you know
i guess
if you never move
it has even more chance of happening
fix is just perma moving no cap
fathom bramble
what about if like 4 mobs die and then the tank chains them all slightly back
and now your hitting 4 mobs with BF that are already dead
lusty dome
Or you just kill yourself with killing spree before the first mob dies.
vivid vessel
and now your hitting 4 mobs with BF that are already dead
ye
so i think
the strat
is to be on tank
always
while he backpeddle
fathom bramble
that's probably the best counterplay
and for something like cinder specifically you have to pull away from all the yellow mobs that die insta
hollow temple
whats the best enchantment for gear to buy?
Wowhead guide lists them all under the consumables page
upbeat tundra
oh damn i didnt realize you guys were actually still playing the spec
fathom bramble
I mean I play it in raid
upbeat tundra
gl then i guess
vivid vessel
imagine if we werent tho
fathom bramble
but I've basically given up on keys already
vapid blaze
is there alrdy a reminder to recast bf if you get gm?
fathom bramble
kind of gave up 2 weeks in really
mossy nacelle
Wowhead guide lists them all under the consumables page
glass mortar
I was marinating on this all day
vivid vessel
welcome back
rich cliff
ok that's crazy
vivid vessel
go read wowhead idk
glass mortar
Doesn't this bug also hella devalue pc
vivid vessel
ye proly
fathom bramble
yes
upbeat tundra
i thought we were all in here just shitposting but you guys are really out here in the trenches playing the shit
quaint wharf
Doesn't this bug also hella devalue pc
ye
fathom bramble
even in a pack of 8 you won't get PC value at the end if you corpses are near
vivid vessel
guys please tell me a number
glass mortar
Yup
mellow thicket
24
fathom bramble
and in a pack of 5 your PC won't ramp off the dying targets with them still being hit
craggy barn
17
vivid vessel
ok good enough
lusty dome
guys please tell me a number
... 😉
vivid vessel
I prefer 24 ty
gaunt phoenix
is there alrdy a reminder to recast bf if you get gm?
here is one https://wago.io/YuicePURM
vapid blaze
thanks
vivid vessel
bro im about to make a ww alt
and the ww communities figure already hate me
its so over for me
upbeat tundra
play a dk its pretty fun
mellow thicket
ww cracked
upbeat tundra
i timed a 15 on aug last night
upbeat tundra
augmentation evoker
vivid vessel
wdym augmentation evoker
quaint wharf
zac you know what randomly crossed my mind today
when that mage followed u here after the key
mellow thicket
how many times did you jork while playing aug?
vapid blaze
bro im about to make a ww alt
ww is so fun
quaint wharf
that shit was hilarious bro
vivid vessel
when that mage followed u here after the key
ok it was funny tho
jolly geyser
what they say
upbeat tundra
vivid vessel
im never entering a key with a ww ever again tho
quaint wharf
ok it was funny tho
prob the best moment ive witnessed in this disc
vivid vessel
they prolly all have me blacklisted now
mellow thicket
....
rich cliff
what did u do to the monks
tender wedge
Isn’t WW notoriously buggy as well? Or has the recent monk (not BM) attention fixed a lot of it
mellow thicket
man i feel bad for the guy that asked to be muted earlier today
gaunt phoenix
bro is gooning
vivid vessel
i was about to say that
mellow thicket
all the news
gaunt phoenix
Lmfao
vivid vessel
what did u do to the monks
I think they are mad we are more capped than they are
what can you do
deepred hatred
royal hollow
why cant we say cock
vivid vessel
no you can
mellow thicket
hahahaha
lunar thorn
Am I crazy or do I remember an instance of a rogue bug not being fixed because we were already doing too much damage
vivid vessel
Am I crazy or do I remember an instance of a rogue bug not being fixed because w...
ye that was nighstalker
royal hollow
oh
covert kestrel
wdym you feel bad for somnius
somnius is da boi
royal hollow
vivid vessel
and you could say the audacity bug is a similar situation but the opposite
they wont fix the bug cause then they would need to buff ho
and they dont want to
objectively that bug is terrible for the game especially new comers
lunar thorn
that's crazy lol
tender breach
I also have another question (maybe is stupid so dont laught). They fix the BF bug and in theory outlaw increaces his dps in lvls they dont want to. Then they probably nerf the spec. wont they?
vivid vessel
it wont change anything
lunar thorn
rogue is already not meta
wind lintel
nah
vivid vessel
also outlaw is mega shit so
lunar thorn
fixing the bugs wont do shit
quaint wharf
I also have another question (maybe is stupid so dont laught). They fix the BF b...
theres no way fixing the bug will give outlaw a giga buff
rich cliff
bugs or not class is still capped
quaint wharf
but its more dmg and another bug off the list, so positive either way
tender breach
yeah if it is fixed with no nerf it will be beneficial
unreal drum
if this was a dps increase (coup bug) theyd be on it 😄
random stirrup
come in, make post suggesting guy is sandbagging about the impact of the bug, call tc who made major contributions to bug an asshole 
vivid vessel
eh
i didnt even mind that
just the ..
Feels like im a kid talking to a very condescending adult
random stirrup
i mean i looked in monk discord to see turbo passive aggressive emote usage so its not really surprising
strong cargo
hey guys, what are prios here ? I have 2 CPs, 2 garanteed Unseen Blade procs, Coup ready, 2 vanish charges and BTE ready.
I ignore unseen blade procs and just build to vanish ?
royal hollow
coup(can build if you have fth/deft)>build>vanish
gaunt phoenix
looks like AR has 2 seconds remaining so prob vanish
royal hollow
oh didnt see ar timer
strong cargo
looks like AR has 2 seconds remaining so prob vanish
I just let AR fall while taking screenshot, what if AR is high ?
vivid vessel
coup
this situation doesnt happen much tho
having double charge of vanish back
is already fairly bad in itself
shouldnt really happen
i mean it can
but it shouldnt
strong cargo
Ye, it's just not intuitive for me when something like that happens and I don't like the second I spend thinking about what to press so I just wanted to ask to make a decision and be sure I don't go with the wrong one 😄
bold sphinx
Could be worse
strong cargo
Seems like wise 😄 Thx
vivid vessel
we should have a death counter for cauldron beam
strong cargo
Could be worse
no hps link ? 🤔
cinder relic
Rik reverb barrels except ks deaths to could Ron
vivid vessel
!Ren
vivid vessel
0 days since last death to ksing into ron frontal
west ridge
I think they are mad we are more capped than they are
why would they be mad about that lol?
vivid vessel
if you cant compete about being the best spec in the game
you can always compete about being the worse
!
no cap on god
fr
cinder relic
How are they suppose to have a victim off when their opponent is outlaw
pearl trout
mellow thicket
will bf changes be greater than coup bug buff?
vivid vessel
mellow thicket
lol
vivid vessel
coup bug fix was legit 5 to 10% bro
you aint getting that back ever
waiting on my wowhead article for htat one btw
didnt have monks pinging us asking for numbers
weird
rich cliff
crazy i dont remember outlaws being stacked in raid the way monks were this tier
proven ocean
zaczczczcazczaaczxczcczsaca
vivid vessel
ye ross
cinder relic
Everybody in here is a challenger victim on God
proven ocean
n o cappi zac no cappi
vivid vessel
ye
proven ocean
sin fun sin fun
vivid vessel
no
fathom bramble
Still crazy that we got the unprecedented midweek bugfix nerf with no compensation
fathom bramble
Basically never happened before
cinder relic
Still crazy that we got the unprecedented midweek bugfix nerf with no compensati...
That is nasty work
fathom bramble
Right before one arm prog 👌
rich cliff
which nerf was that
vivid vessel
coup fix
fathom bramble
They also murdered our pirate son which was like 4% too
rich cliff
- tbf problems we had on that boss were not outlaw damage related
fathom bramble
True
vivid vessel
bro the pirate was way more than that lok wdym
cinder relic
Most nerfed spec is all time
fathom bramble
Depends on the trinkets you had right
rich cliff
it was crazy we killed sprocket and lok's 619 lil guy was 6% of his damage
fathom bramble
Not everyone had a champ/heroic one
fathom bramble
But yeah 6% for the bis sim
quaint wharf
bragger detected
vivid vessel
i do not mean to brag
hasty warren
zeross speaking
patent mirage
they could have adjusted the cp gain of coup
gaunt phoenix
+10cp 
hybrid crown
does anyone have the super premium WCL
glass mortar
I mean pirate was reasonable
hybrid crown
can someone send me a screenie of an old parse >_>
glass mortar
I think we all saw that getting fixed
Solo had pi pirate sims that were almost beating the best pi spec in the game
rich cliff
lmao
glass mortar
Tfw one delve trinket scaled better with pi then any spec in the game
rich cliff
as in casting pi on the pirate?
glass mortar
No on u
round heron
zuc
glass mortar
It gets its as from u
jolly geyser
giga pirate
gaunt phoenix
herbie
round heron
i am doing good brother hope u are too
fathom bramble
Pirate son was kind of in reason before they buffed it by 20%
hasty warren
hi herbie
round heron
i checked if any homies still here and saw u :3
fathom bramble
barely above what some other specs get from house or cards
rich cliff
they should have nerfed it for every spec but outlaw
fathom bramble
I think we all expected it to be nerfed anyway
rich cliff
made a new hero spec of pirate captain
vivid vessel
I think we all expected it to be nerfed anyway
first time in my life i got asked to play outlaw tho
lasted about 1 hour
till we needed sub back in again
fathom bramble
Replace fatebound with our pirate son
jolly geyser
human mastery rogue
royal hollow
unholy 2.0
patent mirage
fatebound more like lamebound
glass mortar
i wish i ahd a saved sim from PI pirate
u looked like a burst spec
u bursted every 2m
the burst was 99.99% a single trinket
that tripled ur dps
jolly geyser
was funny
fathom bramble
New mastery Pirate son: casting adrenaline rush summons a skeletal pirate from the seas that deals x damage per second and gains your attack speed bonuses.
patent mirage
remember the riposte bug in sl
glass mortar
the pirate was the main character when it was out
that mf was doin more dps then u
what if we were the first mates all along
royal hollow
what if we were the pet and norggen was the main character all along
bold sphinx
no hps link ? 🤔
could be better, yeah
royal hollow
patent mirage
glass mortar
ok time to logon and finish filling my vault on my flavorite character outlaw rogue
i sure hope i can hit my target cap today
think im not gunna run PC in anything and see how it feels
glass mortar
we can outplay this bug at least, just gotta reposition everytime mobs die near u in big pulls
me when im outplaying not hitting dead mobs
literally boxing w/ghosts
i love this spec
jolly geyser
sending the ghosts to the light,or something
fluid meadow
"sounds like they should buff assassination cause of this" best comment below outlaw wowhead post
gentle sky
so whit the BF bugs is PC even working in the end of a pull ?
quaint wharf
nope
gaunt phoenix
so whit the BF bugs is PC even working in the end of a pull ?
I dunno it's kind of an open question
How often are you near dead targets so that bf attempts hit them
How long do dead corpses last even
Idk the impact of the bug really
just that it exists
yeah I think it will affect PC when it does happen
glass mortar
yea i mean trying to calculate how its impacting pc
glhf
thats all gunna be so napkiny
ur already kinda "feeling" how good PC is in a key where almost every pull is 8+ targets
u cant calculate it easily
cinder relic
xd
leaden sonnet
xd
Fwiw the fazed thing is not really a bug, it just works the same way as other similar effects like ghostly strike or find weakness
vivid vessel
or they can read
cinder relic
Fwiw the fazed thing is not really a bug, it just works the same way as other si...
Well, yes and no
vivid vessel
Fwiw the fazed thing is not really a bug, it just works the same way as other si...
the other way around eleem
the targets with fazed up on them should get cleaved for 5% more
cinder relic
because bladeflurries spell id is listed twice right, one for the cast damage, and one for the cleave, hoever the cleave one is just the wrong spell ID
So I would assume it's intended to work
leaden sonnet
I see, but that was fixed for sub with season 2 iirc
So i thought they fixed bf too
vivid vessel
what really ?
gaunt phoenix
secondary targets afflicted with fazed should take increased damage from incoming blade flurry hits
leaden sonnet
Im pretty sure they did atleast 
vivid vessel
not for outlaw unlucky
leaden sonnet
Also blade flurry, sanguine and spatter all benefit from aura buffs
vivid vessel
idk what you mean by that
leaden sonnet
Instead of spatter doing 40% for assa
Its doing 40*1.07=42.8%
(because its got +7% aura buff)
leaden sonnet
Blade flurry was in the whitelist when me and whispyr looked at it the other day
leaden sonnet
gentle sky
a bit off topic but if you go to a target dummy and usetoys like turnip next to them to se your 8 target dps you dont hit them at all on your BF
vivid vessel
im fairly certain the cleave part doesnt scale with aura buffs
vivid vessel
a bit off topic but if you go to a target dummy and usetoys like turnip next to ...
ye i noticed that
idk why
glass mortar
wait no way splatter and nimble flurry are double dipping with aura buffs?
vivid vessel
i too wanted to test 8 target aoe kekw
glass mortar
glass mortar
the whole point of aura buffs
leaden sonnet
429951
This id is on the whitelist
leaden sonnet
wait no way splatter and nimble flurry are double dipping with aura buffs?
Nimble isnt
vivid vessel
unless we have no aura buff rn
vivid vessel
ok well bf is not scaling with aura buff then
because i did the math
and there is no 6%
fathom bramble
It shouldn’t and never has scaled with our aura buff
Imagine how silly that would’ve been when we had like a 42% aura
vivid vessel
`429951`
This id is on the whitelist
ye thats one of the cast
glass mortar
i mean its not an issue if bf isnt in it
leaden sonnet
It shouldn’t and never has scaled with our aura buff
Ye ofc it shouldnt
glass mortar
caustic certainly shouldnt be in it
mighty pivot
it would be double-dipping if it affected flurry
glass mortar
its just funny
quaint wharf
so we are not mage, so we don't get hotfixed asap?
wdym
we did get hotfixed asap
douple coup
fathom bramble
Anything that copies a % of your damage shouldn’t be of course
vivid vessel
apparently once again sin is winning
glass mortar
do we know if caustic is effected by this BF bug
would probably be annoying to tell i guess
since its softcapped
vivid vessel
idk i asked whisp
fathom bramble
It has the same flag that we think causes it
vivid vessel
and i dont remember what he said
fathom bramble
Idk if any sin rogue will check
glass mortar
probably wouldnt notice much anyway since its softcapped and spatter is also based on ur targets hitbox not ur own right
hybrid crown
What would that make it soft cap harder with dead stuff around
glass mortar
yes ud do less of the unreduced damage
if it was working the same way
not quite as bad as doing zero damage but
xd
hybrid crown
Yeahhh
glass mortar
its also a significantly lower portion of their actual aoe then bf so
not the end of the world since the times this bug even pops up r limited
leaden folio
I don't want outlaw being the 1rst dps spec, I just want it to work properly
hybrid crown
Yeah and do that KS fix
gaunt phoenix
do we know if caustic is effected by this BF bug
Caustic has the allow dead targets flag so idk
fathom bramble
if all the bugs in the wowhead post get fixed we are a few steps closer to everything working properly
torpid fiber
Wowhead doesn't seem to list the allow dead targets flag so I couldn't check if stuff has it
gaunt phoenix
Wowhead doesn't seem to list the allow dead targets flag so I couldn't check if ...
spell data is here though its a bit annoying to search https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/blob/thewarwithin/SpellDataDump/rogue.txt
vivid vessel
wtf is blob
glass mortar
if this flag actually does what it says it does
surely this is some leftover vanilla era shit
does anyone care about nearby corpses anymore
median nimbus
we just need to find a mage skill with a similar bug so they fix it asap
glass mortar
why would a target checker ever want a flag like this
gaunt phoenix
torpid fiber
spell data is here though its a bit annoying to search <https://github.com/simul...
Ty
fathom bramble
which we probably want res spells to target corpses right
vivid vessel
np
fathom bramble
some auras that persist through death have it as well
like the recently cheated death thing
glass mortar
how does it end up on damaging spells
fathom bramble
good question
glass mortar
xd
fathom bramble
I have no idea
royal hollow
if all the bugs in the wowhead post get fixed we are a few steps closer to every...
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/t6os0JuPc0o
blizzard fixing bugs
glass mortar
im musing to cope
as i queue for keys
knowing im about to try to dodge corpses
like a schitzo
glass mortar
outlaw was fine on stix prog
u take alot of damage for free but u wont die if u feint
cloud abyss
feels terible
glass mortar
u gotta sorta play AR around rolls
but as long as u dont get the very first roll
it doesnt feel too bad
leaden folio
on raid the dead body get remove no ?
glass mortar
raid i dont think the corpse thing is really an issue
ur almost never beyond target cap anyway
and corpses in raid act differently then dungeon ones
leaden folio
yes, and we didn't pick talent to deal more if there is less target
so it should be fine
glass mortar
law felt strong on strix prog u just take alot of healing because u will take a decent chunk of damage from fire puddles and kspree
its not enough to kill u but its noticable
quaint wharf
its fine
molten flicker
Can you ignite all the trash piles on accident with killing spree?
quaint wharf
outlaw tank spec atp
leaden folio
stix is about to do the ball correctly anyway
fathom bramble
Can you ignite all the trash piles on accident with killing spree?
all the ones in melee range yes
just don't KS during that
quaint wharf
tank dmg, tank dr
glass mortar
and if u get first roll it kinda sucks but u generally only get 1 roll a fight so its not that hard to play AR around
if ur trying to parse the fight my recommendation would be
dont ever
the way u parse that fight is play as unethically as possible
the boss just dies to rolls if u do the mright
fathom bramble
play like you'll never get a ball 👌
vivid vessel
It'd not on all stars
fathom bramble
if you get one it's doomed anyway
glass mortar
focus everything on killing bombshells and rolls
quaint wharf
parse doesnt even matter for that fight
glass mortar
and not killing ur friends
even trickster is kinda softtrolling that fight tbh u need to hold it alot to play ethically (basically anytime u have fire circles) + it makes u eat a ton of free damage
i dont think i ever died early on all of prog tho cause u can just feint all ur KS and never actually die
i just felt dumb being at top of damage taken meters after tanks
unfortunatly ur alternative is basically do 20% less trash damage on a fight where killing certain trash does matter by playing fatebound
and fatebound even loses prio damage on bombshells/boss whenever a single add exists within 10 yards so
xd
glass mortar
im at my queue cap rn
i dont think im getting invs to any of these tho
since ive been in em for like 2m
shuld probably cycle thru
just gotta find someone desperate enough
hybrid crown
100% of the top outlaws are running it so it's objectively the right talent pick for that boss tho right
glass mortar
yes
quaint wharf
feelsbad
glass mortar
i mean
fatebound is so bad on that fight
u sorta just gotta take it be like hey i know im going to take a ton of damage but i will never die
u shuldnt ever die on that fight as rogue rlly u can feint all the important stuff
sullen wyvern
I just read the wowhead post
Didnt know about targets dying and your BF target cap reducing
fathom bramble
Wowhead doesn't seem to list the allow dead targets flag so I couldn't check if ...
sullen wyvern
That's some spaghetti coding
fathom bramble
there's just like 20 BF spells on wowhead
gaunt phoenix
oh ye
fathom bramble
this is the one that is actually responsible for BF damage hits
sullen wyvern
So what's the other workaround?
fathom bramble
ignore caster damage modifiers is what prevents double dipping for example
sullen wyvern
Use BF when shit starts dyinh too?
fathom bramble
only counterplay is to not stand near corpses
gaunt phoenix
no just idk try to move away from dead shit
proven ocean
@halcyon elm new build in action now 
sullen wyvern
Bruh
fathom bramble
you need your 7 nearest targets to all actually be living
proven ocean
streaming now since u asked earlier i think
tight kernel
I dont think refreshing BF will prevent it hitting dead targets.. prob best to have tank pull away as shit dies
sullen wyvern
Its so stupid
tight kernel
but gl getting a tank to move correctly
hybrid crown
Need a dead enemy highlight weak aura
proven ocean
on my profile malarki
gaunt phoenix
and be mildly aware of it
halcyon elm
gotcha
gaunt phoenix
also be aware of gm snapshotting
covert kestrel
and hope that them fixing it will highlight the other parts of outlaw that need fixing 
gaunt phoenix
press bf once when you roll gm the first time
vivid vessel
also be aware of gm snapshotting
did a few keys solo
this feels like absolute complete utter garbage
tight kernel
on my profile malarki
no tswift music i have to mute stream
vivid vessel
and i cannot not press bf
its out of my hands
i must press bf
sooner or later i press the button
vivid vessel
ye i mean probably
royal hollow
covert kestrel
well i think with th gm bug it has to be ho right, perma buff gm is too good
glass mortar
oh is deft not even worth
covert kestrel
"good"
glass mortar
with GM bug u think zac
vivid vessel
on paper ho does more damage on basicallyt every scneario so
thats not what i said
but if gm drops
imo
you dont press deft
ye
glass mortar
ye just in that scenario
thats almost more cursed
then not playing deft
ngl
nice optimization
tight kernel
Hear me out.. HO+GS+CTO+PC 1pt FTH.
covert kestrel
the reroll rules need to be fixed to prio gm so kir can play deft 
fluid meadow
the insane fix would be that, if we do dmg to dead targets, so we do dmg, but only worthless dmg
vivid vessel
Hear me out.. HO+GS+CTO+PC 1pt FTH.
you will have to link me that build
if you manage to make it
gaunt phoenix
It's so dumb
real talk, i dont think these bugs are new, either of them
so its not like some new thing destroying your dmg
cold jewel
im not talking about outlaw bugs
vivid vessel
these are bugs that has been here forever
glass mortar
ye idk solo caue shit felt noticable worse last weekend
but also
dungeon pulls r becoming more degen
as the tier goes on
even in weekly 10s
every pull is 12t
vivid vessel
ye idk solo caue shit felt noticable worse last weekend
i found old logs
witht the same bug
glass mortar
wasnt like that at start of season
glass mortar
this bug gets worse the larget the target count. so if pulls get bigger and more optimized as season goes on
i think it just gets more noticable
law has felt like this since df easily for me idk
always feels harder to do ur target cap dps in mass aoe situations
then at actual target cap
ara ara first pull was always wild
sullen wyvern
How can you even see that in old logs?
vivid vessel
ye there is a replay option
west ridge
ye i always felt weird about massive first pulls in dungeons
then my dps being higher on the second pull
west ridge
never really put much into it, it just felt weired
gaunt phoenix
Lol
royal hollow
jolly geyser
ara kara was season 1 tww? wtf
time all weird after 2020
glass mortar
i always just chocked it up to starting dps late or the fact that u can do less dps on first pull then second if second is also 8t just because law is law
but it genuinly felt harder
sullen wyvern
There were no nerubians in dragon expansion solo
tender wedge
yeah its probably confirmation bias but i swear to god sometimes i'd be doing 9-10m in big pulls and other times struggling to get over 7m, i was chalking it up to just different RTB rolls and rng
glass mortar
i think ara ara is like a poster child for this that first pull had wildly mismatched hp bars and u basically didnt move from the spot u pulled it to if u went all the way to the spider
so it would be one of the situations this bug would probably be at its worst
gaunt phoenix
well big pulls is legit the dead target thing
just in general feeling weaker after 11.1.5 is probably fake
sullen wyvern
I like how the post highlightd what's wrong with the spec but nothing about being worked on
fluid meadow
these things are really more common at lower io, where players not chainpulling things more often, like every shit and bug are more noticable at lower io/bracket
vivid vessel
these things are really more common at lower io, where players not chainpulling ...
nah i think its the opposite lol
you dont really notice that bug until you do massive pulls
idk
vapid blaze
wouldnt the dead target thing also fuck you over hard in certain raids?
like ovinax
gaunt phoenix
my understanding is that corpses are despawned much sooner in raid
glass mortar
i think large pulls r becoming much more common in 10s as this season goes on
both because mdi mindset and also this season is just very easy
gaunt phoenix
compared to keys
glass mortar
gear is crushing these dungeons
vivid vessel
ye i mean always evolved liek that weran
glass mortar
ye
vivid vessel
but it still isnt what you do in high keys
vapid blaze
my understanding is that corpses are despawned much sooner in raid
like corpses?
cause the undead thing works for a looong time
glass mortar
LUL yea cinderbew is pretty doomed
vivid vessel
i show ytou the route
glass mortar
my tank friend likes to do the mdi routes in our weekly keys
vivid vessel
they arent
glass mortar
last cinderbrew we did was like 12 targets every pull perma chained
why am i even here bro
vapid blaze
like on fyrak you could consume both waves of smallies and just get 80% mana back xD
glass mortar
how overtuned would i need 2 be to be decent in a dungeon where every pull is 12t ☠️
vivid vessel
- you have lil brew shits that spawn on cd
my target counter was litteraly
20 targets
glass mortar
on the chargers yea
glass mortar
thats like 4 things that can die super fast
on top of u
and u dont have much space to work with
fathom bramble
like corpses?
cause the undead thing works for a looong time
generally raid adds either leave no corpse or despawn very fast
fathom bramble
I know there's some exceptions, but in general this is true
vapid blaze
i c
fluid meadow
you dont really notice that bug until you do massive pulls
idk if priory 1st pull is massive compared the pull after 1st boss( but there u chain cause of consecration), but that's legit something, 1st pull half dps compared after 1st boss packs
fathom bramble
specifically broodtwister corpses despawning nearly instantly contributed to us not finding this bug as fast
slate plaza
fathom bramble
since it was part of the data we used last time
slate plaza
u guys beat me to it
glass mortar
☠️
sullen wyvern
Oof
vivid vessel
and then
this is every pack after first boss
till we wiped
cause nothing id dying and we are pulling too big
surely you start asking yourself some questions
vivid vessel
and this is the prio damage on the prio targets in these pulls
so its not like it was compensating with that anyway
frail veldt
surely you start asking yourself some questions
questions like "why are we pulling so big"
outlaws fine you just have to design your entire comp/route around its target cap
vivid vessel
ye its fine
coarse plover
Is there like a bug list of all three specs? I want to see how my bugs we have rn.
vivid vessel
Is there like a bug list of all three specs? I want to see how my bugs we have r...
!bugs
ornate heathBOT
[Outlaw bug Thread](#1276315296159760467 message)
quaint wharf
solo getting promoted to dev team confirmed
bright crane
Yeah that was cringe
mellow thicket
lol
mellow thicket
if you can dodge a bullet you can dodge a jork
late swallow
Clush needs to have realz-specific notifications on
mellow thicket
hahahahaa
late swallow
So he can ask him about jorking it immediately
bright crane
On the topic of jorkin it
mellow thicket
...
bright crane
Did you guys see the sperm race
mellow thicket
the fuc
bright crane
It’s actually completely hilarious
late swallow
Did you guys see the sperm race
mellow thicket
post
late swallow
There was a race like that on my hand earlier
late swallow
Good ping
gaunt phoenix
wtf
bright crane
vivid vessel
high value ping
mellow thicket
oh fuck this is real
bright crane
Bro it seemed like legit the most hype thing
mighty pivot
fwiw blade flurry id 22482 has had the Allow Dead Target (64) attribute at least since aug 2021 (based on the rogue file of simc) which was around patch 9.1.0, but that commit added several attributes to many other spells, so, if the same id was being used back then it could've been broken even before that
vivid vessel
ye
I mean tbf
if you think back in sl
it wasnt as relevant
in df it was already weird i think
i rmemeber everbloom
but the most noticeable was arakara
and thats mostly cause critters that insta die
are like the main thing that will "activate" the bug
kinda
honeslty
the most surprising thing in all of this
is how we gaslighted ourselves
for so long
that we were just seeing thigns
mighty pivot
the new tech is to taunt critters near the mob stack to grief your outlaw rogue then
coarse plover
Omg seems like there is no swe in wow team at blizzard
mellow thicket
i just want the fixes implemented so i can do sub par DPS
sullen wyvern
Not even asking for uncap aoe
Imagine your aoe being hardcapped
And its being fucked by bugs at the same time
mellow thicket
imagine playing outlaw in 2025
vivid vessel
I think that now this is done
we should go back to asking about uncap
and maybe one day we get a soft cap
quaint wharf
Id rather have a ks fix before uncap
sullen wyvern
Im pretty sure the community has been asking for uncapped aoe for a while now
quaint wharf
Tbh
vivid vessel
honeslty i hope they fix that gm thing
mellow thicket
saving fixes for 11.1.7 lol
royal hollow
sin rogue simulator
sullen wyvern
Bad*
gaunt phoenix
not sure devs are assigned to one class
coarse plover
are we least population now?
gaunt phoenix
not sure but rogue has always been low pop
late swallow
I bet the rogue dev looks like the guy from degrassi who shot drake
mellow thicket
hahahahahahaha
vivid vessel
Who
leaden folio
anyway the dev assigned to trinket just copy pasta rogue this patch
gaunt phoenix
i just assume all trinkets are scarizard
cause he made them in season 1 DF or something
now he is the permanent blame
torpid fiber
In the interview with Max he said he had a whole team iirc
gaunt phoenix
nice