no?
#outlaw
vivid vessel
vivid vessel
i didnt have a thingy tho
proven ocean
ye ik
proven ocean
but its funny af
vivid vessel
a thing
lone crow
as long as u like it
vivid vessel
in microwave
lone crow
what
vivid vessel
and this works surprisingly well
proven ocean
hollow temple
No shot your french
vivid vessel
pastas in microwave are legit just normal cooked pastas
hollow temple
You aren’t french
proven ocean
pastas in microwave are legit just normal cooked pastas
nah bro
vivid vessel
also its super easy
hollow temple
You pretender
ivory terrace
pastas in microwave are legit just normal cooked pastas
vivid vessel
and its jkust normal pastas
proven ocean
put pastas and water into a bowl
WATER
vivid vessel
no cap
untold yarrow
brow hat
untold yarrow
is this guy american
vivid vessel
how do you cook your pastas bro ?
proven ocean
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
vivid vessel
you ok ?
hollow temple
But steak?
vivid vessel
you are cooked zeross
vivid vessel
you just need a little bit of water idk it works better
like a cup of water i mean
with it
in the thing
hollow temple
Like next to it?
ivory terrace
like a cup of water i mean
beside it, or on it?
ivory terrace
damn
hollow temple
Oook
ivory terrace
i am
hollow temple
That makes sense
vivid vessel
cool
hollow temple
But
vivid vessel
i mean the steaks
hollow temple
But
vivid vessel
are like
hollow temple
But
ivory terrace
So if im correct, i put the steak on a plate and beside it a cup of water that just sits there chilling
vivid vessel
ye
medium power
and idk how long
you need to cook it for
i forgot
that was like
5 years ago
ivory terrace
sick
frank finch
this is why outlaw is so bugged
proven ocean
shoe thing
ivory terrace
i getchu though, the water cup like moisturizes the steak
vivid vessel
can go south very fast
frank finch
what are u doing to pasta?
proven ocean
so be careful
if zac says becareful
chat
u really
NEED
TO BE CAREFUL
because
vivid vessel
vivid vessel
ross
proven ocean
and zac says its bad
vivid vessel
all im gona say is
vivid vessel
if there is a zombie apocalypse right
vivid vessel
and only microwaves works
proven ocean
cuz of how bad it is
ivory terrace
campfire
vivid vessel
campfire
what if they disable fire
and you have to bring your microwave around
only microwaves work
vivid vessel
fire is disabled
fathom bramble
bro is playing project zomboid out here
fathom bramble
cooking everything in a microwave because you took the fear of fire trait
ivory terrace
im investing in microwave rn
proven ocean
fire is disabled
my guy thinks real life is a game
vivid vessel
i know how to cook a steak in more ways than you, so its an advantage
vivid vessel
you never know ross
ivory terrace
what if they disable electricity
vivid vessel
we live in a simulation
proven ocean
you never know ross
fire was discovered 790,000 years ago
like
any dumb animal
can make fire
at this point
vivid vessel
what if they disable electricity
i still know how to cook a steak the normal way tho
so im winning either way
im better
fathom bramble
what if they randomly break fire targeting one day?
ivory terrace
Dont forget the cup of water
fathom bramble
and it just doesn't ignite the logs for some reason
proven ocean
and it just doesn't ignite the logs for some reason
vivid vessel
i doubt most people can mkae fire out of nothing these days
if i just let you out in a forest ross
are you really managing to start a fire
i dont think i am
proven ocean
i can live in a forest
vivid vessel
and i know how to
proven ocean
i did it
vivid vessel
i learned
proven ocean
so
proven ocean
living in a forest isnt as hard as u think
proven ocean
its only hard if u go there with no processed food
vivid vessel
ross
fathom bramble
without a ferro rod or something I am never getting fire
proven ocean
zac
vivid vessel
is like
vivid vessel
50 frozen steaks
proven ocean
im confused
vivid vessel
1 microwave
proven ocean
like
vivid vessel
what you do
proven ocean
if i have food with me
vivid vessel
?
proven ocean
ofc i'll use it
but
why in the fuck
would i take
a microwave
to the forest
are u drunk
ivory terrace
portable microwave
vivid vessel
thats the cards you were dealt with zeross
dont question it
they dropped you in the forest like that
vivid vessel
you never know
proven ocean
and only microwave works
vivid vessel
you never know
vivid vessel
you laugh a lot rn
but i know things
wait till blizzard disable fire next patch and all you are left with is a microwave
will see who is laughing then
hollow temple
zac
vivid vessel
Ye that do be me
hollow temple
are u done with high keys now
vivid vessel
are u done with high keys now
Outlaw doesn't work
Ks doesn't work
Outlaw does 0 damage
Idk
I think I'm done
Outlaw might be the worse spec in the game for semi high keys rn
I'm not even talking world first
And also I don't think I'm exaggerating
Cause find me a spec that does st damage on a 20 target pull
I will be waiting bozos
tropic zephyr
Yk I'm trying out fury rn
wintry solar
Outlaws saving grace
hollow temple
the season i decide to do keys u are done
vivid vessel
i prefer not playing than playuing assa
hollow temple
tropic zephyr
Fury is 100 times worse than law
wintry solar
is that you can play a meme build and still do top overall in small keys
cinder relic
Fury is so ass 
wintry solar
why do yall not like fury?
cinder relic
Slayer sucks
vivid vessel
its not outlaw
wintry solar
valid
tropic zephyr
It's law but bad
wintry solar
also yeah I dont like slayer and I dont like thane either
cinder relic
You just use a weakaura for it but I don't like how conditional execute is
Execute should be the I win button
And it isn't
And then fury is just annoying to play
Arms is alright
At least arms can spam execute
wintry solar
I thought I wanted Thunderclap for fury but Im man enough to admit I was wrong
wintry solar
I mean
tropic zephyr
wintry solar
icr the last time fury wasnt boring
tropic zephyr
Yeah im playing it because of a cringe zero to hero challenge with friends
Everybody picked the cringiest class for people to play, like you could not choose yourself
cinder relic
I like arms enough
vivid vessel
I thought I wanted Thunderclap for fury but Im man enough to admit I was wrong
Bet you were one of these mfs that wanted ks to be playable aswell
And now that it is the spec is unplayable gg
wintry solar
I got my KS fix in pvp
quiet root
ks is playable for some definitions of playble
wintry solar
so I couldnt care less about its viability in pve
tropic zephyr
high on
wintry solar
brother what are you gettig
not KS fix as in KS is actually fixed but KS fix in the sense that its good and isnt detrimental to my personal wellbeing
wintry solar
thats crazy
you too?
I'd be okay with the most basic of fixes if Blizzard were cool like that
anything but delete it
fathom bramble
the changes necessary to fix it would change the skill enough to basically delete it
wintry solar
literally untrue but okay
vivid vessel
Next
fathom bramble
basically the only thing you can keep is the longer GCD and the fact that it is a cooldown finisher
every other part of the spell is a problem
wintry solar
I wish we could see Wox's fix in the context of current outlaw
fathom bramble
random teleporting, teleporting me at all, preventing the use of off GCD skills all needs to go
exotic grail
/wa
robust zephyr
what is going on with rogue hps?
gaunt phoenix
what is going on with rogue hps?
cauldron? its from killing spree
robust zephyr
yeah how does that work lol
gaunt phoenix
killing spree staggers damage and this is logged as absorb
fathom bramble
killing spree staggers 100% of incoming damage to be taken over 8 seconds instead
gaunt phoenix
If you killing spree into the dino beam it will stagger >450 million dmg
robust zephyr
oh
gaunt phoenix
but if you dont cloak immediately it will kill you ofc
vivid vessel
and that just leaves it as a longer GCD cooldown finisher
I mean that's fine tho
Sub has sec tech
It feels plenty different enough
Doesn't need anything fancy
fathom bramble
I wish we could see Wox's fix in the context of current outlaw
Wox fix is good but still leaves the janky GCD lock that doesn't work properly with spellqueueing
vivid vessel
Hell bte Is exactly that
fathom bramble
I mean that's fine tho
it's what KS should be
tropic zephyr
tbf just make BR do exactly as much damage as KS does and make it a finisher
and we got our own sectech
ggs
(delete ks obv)
wintry solar
Wox fix is good but still leaves the janky GCD lock that doesn't work properly w...
thats fine to me tbh
the bar isnt high
it should just not kill you
tropic zephyr
Wox fix is good but still leaves the janky GCD lock that doesn't work properly w...
wox fix is probably janky with range stuff
runic gulch
a sec tech styled KS is how I’ve always thought it should be reworked tbh
Let clones teleport instead and stand in the shit
wintry solar
thats dumb
fathom bramble
wox fix is probably janky with range stuff
I guess you could cast it and then run off
glass mortar
we arent sub
wintry solar
why not play sub then
fathom bramble
but does that actually matter?
runic gulch
But then tune damage accordingly as you can still carry on dpsing
glass mortar
if we are gunna redesign it why not at least make ti make sense for law
kspree doesnt even match laws theme
wintry solar
law doesnt have a theme
fathom bramble
I'm not sure kspree ever matched combat or outlaws theme
runic gulch
We can give them pirate hats, idk man
glass mortar
the only thing that matches is its fast
why am i shadowstepping around
u guys took shadowstep away from me
runic gulch
Better than what we have now lol
tropic zephyr
but does that actually matter?
i mean yeah, that's literally because a melee punching air looks janky that they removed long arms
glass mortar
fix this spell
dawn talon
holy shit there's an aug in lfg lol
fathom bramble
why am i shadowstepping around
fun fact: KS and shadowstep use to both say "step through the shadows"
glass mortar
🙂
wintry solar
it does not
dawn talon
"used to"
glass mortar
not the rework we deserve
runic gulch
Or just make it like DH blade dance, like an on the spot animation where you can still freely move
wintry solar
missed the use to
fathom bramble
wox thing is the simplest easier possible fix
but an actual redesign is obviously ideal
like punching air is janky, but with the hitboxes in this game we already punch so much air
wintry solar
decoupling it from trickster is just as good tbh
fathom bramble
the GCD lock is terrible, but it's better than dying
it should just be a PvP talent like DFA was changed to
PvP is basically the only content where KS has actually felt good to use for the teleporting feature
basically never comes up as a positive in pve
fathom bramble
no it's not
tropic zephyr
ye it is
fathom bramble
go talent into it right now and press it
cinder relic
DFA was dogshit for the exact same reasons ks is
fathom bramble
it's literally the worst spell sub ever had
tropic zephyr
jump over shit
wintry solar
its so cool though
tropic zephyr
do damage
glass mortar
dfa made u fully cc immune during the animation xd
but u could still just die
this kinda shit
cinder relic
You didn't jump over stuff with it tho
glass mortar
never fun in pve
tropic zephyr
hmm
tropic zephyr
only the animation made you go in the air?
glass mortar
yes
glass mortar
u couldnt dodge over ground shit with it
cinder relic
..?
runic gulch
lol I loved dfa
glass mortar
kspree is also nice in pvp
runic gulch
Spamming shadow dance keybind on the way down and hitting like a truck
Was sad to see it made a PvP talent at the last min for bfa
fathom bramble
sectech was so much of an improvement
DFA had to go
and they even made it a pvp talent which is the only place that it felt good
hell you can still talent into it rn and go play with it
glass mortar
man idk if i can even think of a version of kspree thats longer then a gcd that would feel good as law
the whole not being able to spellqueue off of it
is just so janky
fathom bramble
the way they implemented the GCD lock causes it for whatever reason
similar to old coup
cinder relic
Sectec is what DFA was in practice
glass mortar
the duration shouldnt scale with haste. should just be hardlocked to like 2 gcds and u can spellqueue off of it
cinder relic
Big finisher u built towards
fathom bramble
man idk if i can even think of a version of kspree thats longer then a gcd that ...
imo it should be exactly 2 globals in duration
cinder relic
Looks way cooler too imo
glass mortar
and u cast more strikes scaling with haste
and the damage per strike
scales with cp
cinder relic
Hope ks gets the same treatment
fathom bramble
okay we have the same thought
glass mortar
would feel way better
fathom bramble
fixed duration, haste is more hits, CP is more damage
runic bough
guys
wintry solar
love the new name
runic bough
the real problem is still getting hit my ground mechanics when your toon is jumping over them.
but this has been the issue forever
runic gulch
Yeah but sec tech didn’t really become a 1 to 1 replacement to dfa for a while tho right? Seem to remember not taking sectec for ST until like SL?
Maybe I’m misremembering idk
fathom bramble
you probably shouldn't be able to avoid ground effects by jumping
that has so many abuse cases
runic bough
Or a reason to jump on point
hook
etc
like if you hook over a puddle, you still get the debuff of the puddle even though you never stepped in it
thats blizzard mechanics
fathom bramble
allowing an actual movement skill you avoid them is another thing
jumping should absolutely not stop a puddle from hitting you
since you could just stand in puddles that have an activation time spam jumping
cinder relic
Yeah but sec tech didn’t really become a 1 to 1 replacement to dfa for a while t...
Sectec sucked for awhile yeah
fathom bramble
unless your a mage and you teleport entirely. everything else is not okay/
allowing an actual movement skill you avoid them is another thing
runic bough
why is it only okay for blink/teleporting to ignore mechanics but other classes like hook still take the mechanic?
cinder relic
Sub was bin tier for all of bfa after they gutted shuriken combo
Like literally worst dps every tier
fathom bramble
why is it only okay for blink/teleporting to ignore mechanics but other classes ...
there's probably no real reason for it to be like this
it's just a random technical thing with teleports vs dashes
runic bough
its just bias from devs
fathom bramble
also you can hook through A LOT of mechanics since you move so fast it doesn't hit you
runic bough
one thing can be realistic and others cannot.
fathom bramble
basically every ground puddle in the game has an activation time
runic bough
Blizzard carries this logic in all their games as well unfortunately
quiet root
just don't try it with stun puddles
runic bough
some games without logic bias are pretty fun
fluid meadow
these puddle things is just reworked to this way after casters abuse?
wintry solar
casters would NEVER do such a thing
fluid meadow
like not getting any hit if they jump on edge or smthing
meanwhile puddle or spells below them
cinder relic
What
fathom bramble
why is it only okay for blink/teleporting to ignore mechanics but other classes ...
reworking dashes to avoid mechanics is a pretty large systems change and maybe it's fair, maybe it's OP as fuck
but it's not biased to have teleports be teleports
and dashes be dashes
runic bough
Even if a dps were to dodge all mechanics like a mage blink can, they still put in aoe group damage so a healer is still needed to heal the dps. There isnt really a reason why hook and leaps take puddle effects.
besides bias
imo
cinder relic
Yeah I think it might be the shareholders keeping leaps and dashes down
runic bough
exactly
its reallly funny where theres a little river that does damage before the boss platform.
short plover
!log
runic bough
blizzard makes these kinds of platforms all the time
you can jump over that river but not mechanics
silly devs
yo have to take the time to run around
mechanics
xD
fathom bramble
idk
fathom bramble
there is no practical way to implement what your saying
runic bough
hmmm
fathom bramble
unless we just turn dashes into teleports
runic bough
no
fathom bramble
do not say elevation
runic bough
im just saying why isnt my ground dodging action not actually ground dodging
xD
but its ok
been like this forever we all used to it
could be why they justify run speed for melee specs
because mechanics designed to run instead of leap over
either way at least we get run speed nodes
since melee is forced to run around puddles
runic bough
they would probably remove our run speed nodes if we could hook/leap over puddle mechanics.
quaint wharf
in rookery if you stand on the railing next to the lightning pillars, sometimes the circle doesnt actually activate the pillar
runic bough
id rather keep the run speed nodes for sure
quaint wharf
i grappled onto it one run and it was gg
cinder relic
Idk what Ur even complaining about honestly
R u saying u want to be able to jump over ground mechanics?
runic bough
I was just pointing out ground mechanics design feature. Not complaining per say.
cinder relic
Yeah I mean it is one of the downsides of leaps and dashes
But they come with a lot of pros so
icy hare
Hook is goated for Gaols on Mugzee
glass mortar
my only wish for grapple was it worked like leap
cinder relic
Hook is the single strongest movement skill in the game
glass mortar
if you try to leap somewhere and it fizzles, u just dont move and it doesnt go on cd
grapple is like a projectile so itll just fizzle
doesnt really happen in instances at least
fathom bramble
well the extra los check just doesn't seem to run in instances
so it has the same rules as leap in there
the extra check that snaps hook only happens in the open world
glass mortar
if thats true its just dumb
who cares if u break terrain in the open world 
there is no serious content here
fathom bramble
you can go to a piece of terrain that exists in the open world and a dungeon like most of the new raid and snap hook
then inside the instance it will not snap on the same terrain
trail star
who cares if u break terrain in the open world <:dead:932888396316155934> there ...
"Realism"
fathom bramble
the extra los check doesn't even stop abuse
the first check already has the same rules as leap
wintry solar
meanwhile we somehow stealthily shoot guns
fathom bramble
the extra check would also not be a problem as much if it wasn't also bugged
for whatever reason it snaps on things that do not normally block los
frail veldt
Hook is the single strongest movement skill in the game
I think evoker double jump is
lol
frail veldt
im just saying why isnt my ground dodging action not actually ground dodging
if you could jump over mechanics it would fuck the game up so bad
wow isnt a platformer lol
runic gulch
Hook is the single strongest movement skill in the game
Certainly was as fatebound in rbgs
Doing 4 in a row at the start and capping mid before enemy team was even there
Felt like borderline cheating
gaunt phoenix
Log it
wintry solar
I gotta see how to accurately replicate it
wintry solar
I turned off all my addons earlier actually
random stirrup
I think evoker double jump is
dh jump > evoker jump
cinder relic
I think evoker double jump is
For sure not lol
frail veldt
dh jump > evoker jump
horrible take
if I didnt have to press space bar 3 times maybe
I usually just bind glide on dh
and essentially do the evoker double jump
frail veldt
For sure not lol
I think grapple only feels op cuz its on our cdr list
without that its barely better than heroic leap
and tbh fails more often than leap does
and leap actually goes over stuff
I think shimmer might be one of the best
a blink that you can press while casting
holy
insane
cinder relic
Okay but why would u ignore the actual context the spell exists within
Grapple is just leap, but grapple has 2 charges, retractable hook, and restless blades
frail veldt
well now youre just saying outlaw has good mobility
vivid vessel
longer range no ?
frail veldt
which it does
frail veldt
I think if you asked most specs if theyd rather have grapple or shimmer most would say shimmer
cinder relic
Yes, I am saying the grappling hook is one of the best movement spells in the game
leaden folio
grapple was op when blizzard didn't nerf / bug everything because we can use it to bypass
vivid vessel
I think if you asked most specs if theyd rather have grapple or shimmer most wou...
i wouldnt
cause graplle is ground targeted
frail veldt
youre so grapple pilled
vivid vessel
no
frail veldt
lol
cinder relic
grapple was op when blizzard didn't nerf / bug everything because we can use it ...
What?
frail veldt
grapple cant go up terrain
vivid vessel
it can
cinder relic
What terrain in instanced content
vivid vessel
as much as there is up terrian in instances
ye
who cares about out door
grapple doesnt even work outdoor
frail veldt
What terrain in instanced content
most staircases, different platforms like going up to last boss in cinderbrew
vivid vessel
this isnt a bozo conversation
cinder relic
What
frail veldt
lol
frail veldt
yeah any graveyard/terrain in bgs it cant do shit
leaden folio
and I think
frail veldt
even in arena it cant go up anything
leaden folio
this is whyu
they fucked up everything
I remember bypassing some rocks at argus
while you need to do extrabutton to pass
frail veldt
I think restless blades/retractable hook carries grapple
leaden folio
so everyyear they "bad patch" our speel
cinder relic
Wow isn't a vacuum so yeah, the passives that you take make grapple better
fluid meadow
even in arena it cant go up anything
like in ws after 2nd boss, sometimes struggle to hook and have to go upwards to find spot there because im 0,001 yr below
frail veldt
Wow isn't a vacuum so yeah, the passives that you take make grapple better
Yeah I know I was just talking about the ability in isolation cuz trying to say what ability is "good" when you include every interaction that the spec has with it kinda muddies thew aters
cinder relic
How does it muddy the waters?
random stirrup
but like vortex pinnacle for example u could jump over some mechanic that evoker couldnt
vivid vessel
@cinder relic
cinder relic
Why would u look at a spell in a context less vacuum
vivid vessel
if we give you proof of some pretty important outlaw bugs
are you able to talk to the wowhead guys
leaden folio
xd
cinder relic
Probably yeah
vivid vessel
to get an article out
the tldr is that bf doesnt hit all targets in aoe, can be as worse as not hitting anything at all in a big packs of like 20 mobs
leaden folio
breaking news, when you roll a buff as outlaw, you target cap for 4 target
vivid vessel
solo or I will make somethign proper that explain everything
cinder relic
Sure
wintry solar
im thinking I can get about 12 hours of wow in, 16 if I try
what should I do with that time
lunar thorn
farm herbs
frail veldt
Why would u look at a spell in a context less vacuum
Well it's more like looking at it in the context of its value on other specs
Cuz if you gave outlaw any other classes movement ability and put it on rb and gave it retractable hook it'd seem op too lol
cinder relic
Sure but again, spells don't exist in a vacuum
They exist in context
Contextually, hook is very strong
wintry solar
might be a hot take but 4 grapples is already a lot
fathom bramble
even in a vacuum a gound targetted dash on a 30 second cooldown is incredibly strong compared to what other classes have
1 dash already gets you across an entire boss room
proven ocean
Contextually, hook is very strong
ye hook is very strong
shadowstep aswell
i wish all specs got both
hook and step
would've been cool
cinder relic
even in a vacuum a gound targetted dash on a 30 second cooldown is incredibly st...
It's also way better than ThaT lol
Cuz isn't it like a 18 sec cd in practice
fathom bramble
lower really
I swear you can get hook back in like 6 seconds sometimes
I guess with no procs it's like 15 seconds idk
cinder relic
Yeah I mean its an absurd spell
Ofc it has downsides but it is loaded with upsides too
fathom bramble
I mean the only practical downside is the fact that it doesn't teleport you
which is shared by most other movement skills
cinder relic
Yeah and the snapping thing but that's really only an open world issue
Stuff like queen line, leap is better specifically to dodge that line
fathom bramble
the snapping is just ridiculous, but at least it only runs the 2nd erroneous check in the open world
which queen line?
fathom bramble
yeah leap goes slightly higher for some reason
so you can sometimes actually leap things that hook doesn't leap
painsmith was the same way
cinder relic
Yeah nothing's perfect lol but
wintry solar
there should be a damage amp to how much movement you do
Idk how yall just stand there and not move
strafe spamming if im standing still
leaden folio
we got actually a thing when outlaw was at his prime
like bfa I think
when you hook, every monster around get a debuff
and you get more dmg
fathom bramble
torghast trait
leaden folio
oh y maybe thorgahst
fathom bramble
made your next dispatch hit x% harder
wintry solar
back when dispatch meant something
gaunt phoenix
Blade Flurry bugs
A handful of people, myself included have felt like their damage in keys has been off recently so we've tried to look into why and caught a few things.
Grand Melee snapshotting:
...is fixed. 
Blade Flurry is trying to hit dead targets:
- Have you ever felt like BF damage was sometimes not nearly as high as it should be in massive pulls? This has been a rumored bug for years though it looks like we've finally documented it happening.
- We believe this is because BF is trying to hit dead targets, so once targets start dying their corpses can eat potential BF hits and cause BF to not deal damage to 7 mobs as intended.
- BF always tries to hit the closest targets to you so best advice here is just try to move away from dead mobs.
Are these new bugs?
Both of these bugs have probably existed at least since Dragonflight. Grand Melee was changed to give BF damage in DF, and some careful review of DF logs suggests that the targeting bug has existed since then.
some logs and discussion here: #1065730004920586350 message
wintry solar
bruh
frank finch
wintry solar
Buglaw
gaunt phoenix
Fwiw I know sub's nimble flurry has had similar suspicions
frank finch
noww we need guy to do his part
gaunt phoenix
vivid vessel
missing some 
tho
runic bough
Outlaw bugs intentional?
They seem to give outlaw bugs every patch
ITS TIME TO GO ON STRIKE
REVOLUTION IS AT HAND
wintry solar
I would but I have a bump on my left shoulder and it hurts :(
rapid grail
anyone playing outlaw in 10-13+ keys?
wintry solar
me, why?
wintry solar
I dont have any on hand
gaunt phoenix
Ur overall should be like 3.5-4.5m
except in theater idk
If you are geared like 668 ilvl like most ppl
rapid grail
i want too know how much dmaage im gonna do as a outlaw ina 10-13+ key
cuz i wanan reroll from my fire mage and MM hunter
and gonan play outlaw for boost team
i want a class with prio damage more than fire mage
and im stuck beetween monka nd outlaw rogue
xDD
leaden folio
ITS TIME TO GO ON STRIKE
agile orchid
guys I don't think they will fix BF any time soon
after all, it's not a positive bug
gaunt phoenix
ye ik
agile orchid
my damage in brewery big aoe always sucked ass, but I assumed it's a skill issue
and I thought maybe precise cut is stronger than I thought
hollow portal
frail veldt
<:garf:1320173032743899157>
Hmm specifically in lust? I wonder if it is like a "too many damage instances" issue or something for outlaw
leaden folio
do you play with mugzee trinket ?
I bet
10000000%
they design mugzee trinket
with outlaw rogue skill
rapid grail
what do you mean
leaden folio
like the delve trinket
the npc was design with outlaw skill
pretty sure they copy pasta spaguetti code of outlaw
to trinket
rapid grail
oh okk
gaunt phoenix
Hmm specifically in lust? I wonder if it is like a "too many damage instances" i...
naw i dont think its related to lust
just common on big pulls (where you lust)
craggy quiver
Is this bug recent? Or been in the game for a while?
vivid vessel
gaunt phoenix
vivid vessel
we have been discussing bf not hitting everything in big pulls since like
df
at least
i remmeber it was a big talking point for stuffs like first pull ara kara
we never really looked that much into it tho i think
craggy quiver
Insane if Zac didn't bring it up we would never knew
For a while at least
Outlaw is so cooked man lol
frail veldt
we have been discussing bf not hitting everything in big pulls since like
I think it was tww
reef forge
hopefully they don't take too long to look into it
past falcon
i feel like it got significantly more frequent in the last two weeks
vivid vessel
I think it was tww
oh ye true mb
desert tendon
thanks for the pin and the tc
past falcon
but that could be cope idk
vivid vessel
ara was tww
frail veldt
I feel like in DF I always did the correct amount
vivid vessel
ye i dont think we discussed that much in df
but tbf in df there werent as many big pulls idk
frail veldt
I think we assumed at first with hero talents that there were just a lot of other non bf damage sources
royal ermine
holy that pin
craggy quiver
I never think about since our dmg is always cooked in big pulls
reef forge
yeah probably just putting it down to not having lucky coin, that was always my excuse anyways
craggy quiver
That's so fked
gaunt phoenix
the grand melee thing is at least very easy to verify
gaunt phoenix
Funny if it existed since df
vivid vessel
Funny if it existed since df
tbf
i just found out randomly
trying to figure out how much my spells were supposed to do
cause in that log i sent the first bte
craggy quiver
Insane man
vivid vessel
that cleave only like 4 times
gm isnt working
but i remmeber we tested all the bf stuffs not so long ago
gaunt phoenix
I verified the damage formula for bf + precise cuts + gm + nimble like 2 weeks ago and didnt hit this bug, but i dont remember if i had bf active or not
craggy quiver
Don't think wowhead will post about the bug tho
vivid vessel
like its possible to miss it if you just cast bf after
why not
we have guy that can pressure them a bit
and they did a similar post for dh
craggy quiver
Let's hope so
vivid vessel
like this week
vivid vessel
Anytime wowhead has done article like these
it got fixed btw
they clearly have like
influence
or like
imo blizzard are willing to put things under the rhug
as long as not many people knows about it
and if everyone is aware
craggy quiver
Yea let's hope for wowhead post
vivid vessel
it goes up the prio list you know
gaunt phoenix
It's all there and proof, and zac has several more proofs if needed lol
reef forge
they will take a look at the amount of bugs we have and just delete the spec
fathom bramble
it's weird because last time we couldn't even find proof
vivid vessel
"made" that post
fathom bramble
but now we just instantly can procure it trivially
craggy quiver
They are quick to patch our dps increase bugs
gaunt phoenix
it's weird because last time we couldn't even find proof
Yeah i know
wonder if something changed or idk
vivid vessel
idk if last time we looked at dungeon logs
you said you looked at raid logs
where we didnt know if these moments were bugged
did we ever check an arakara log ?
fathom bramble
I looked it a arakara log that someone said looked suspicious and failed to find any evidence
fathom bramble
not sure who linked it back then
vivid vessel
well idk then
fathom bramble
but no one had any other dungeon logs and I didn't feel like making one
vivid vessel
idk i feel like this aint new
like we have been talking about doing less damage in big pulls
forever now
i cant really believe its just a 11.1.5 change
fathom bramble
yeah idk
if they didn't accidentally break it when they touched caustic spatter somehow
it'
it's probably old
and we needed to look at dungeon logs more thoroughly
craggy quiver
I saw y'all talking about elevation, sure it ain't about that? Or maybe
gaunt phoenix
cant be ruled out entirely but i think not
fluid meadow
need website to just copypaste log to not search any info from line to line if possible somehow
vestal notch
So could rogue writer do that with bf bug?
vivid vessel
maybe
@fathom bramble im looking at old logs of mine
and i cant see anyhting
but idk
fathom bramble
I was looking at a random arakara log here
having trouble finding a pull that is 14 mobs like we have in cinderbrew
random stirrup
stonevault first
fathom bramble
the pack is just super spread out
and the rogue is positioned strangely
so it's not as clean as the log+vod zac had for us
vague cape
fathom bramble
okay there
there
can't fuckin type
there's a spot where he is definitely in range of all 16+ mobs
and BF is hitting 7 as it should
zealous plinth
I just hope they make an wowhead article and we get a fix asap 
agile orchid
I may have a theory about the Bladeflurry bug:
When fighting a pack of 12 mobs, Bladeflurry selects 7 secondary targets in addition to the primary target. My hypothesis is that the game rolls for each of the 7 targets independently from the full pool of 11 remaining mobs, rather than sequentially reducing the pool as targets are selected (e.g., 1/11 for the first, 1/10 for the second, 1/9 for the third, etc.).
This means the selection process could result in duplicate targets, as each roll draws from the same 11-mob pool. If you're unlucky, Bladeflurry might hit only a couple of unique mobs.
I also doubt precise cuts works in this scenario
gaunt phoenix
I just hope they make an wowhead article and we get a fix asap <:Prayge:10082490...
Guy has a wowhead article about other outlaw things soon, he will ask if this can be separate
fathom bramble
like there's a few spots in this log where it is only 6 hits, but I think it's just the rogue positioning poorly
nothing like the super obvious stuff that Zac recorded
vivid vessel
ye
im watching a log of mine aswell
and im unsure if its position
or not
even tho its a bit sus
fathom bramble
actually it's hitting crawler 11 and 12 despite not hitting 2 mobs that are closer(I think)
while only hitting 5 mobs
fluid meadow
maybe CoT pull after 2nd boss bridge and stairs?
vivid vessel
careful lok
i think in the replay
dead mobs
stays there
for a lil bit
you see them at 0 healht bar
gaunt phoenix
if will rescind everything i ever typed about wowhead if they can showcase our bugs
vivid vessel
fathom bramble
I wonder if something changed to make it easier to meet the conditions for the bug
or if it's a new bug
or what
vivid vessel
I wonder if something changed to make it easier to meet the conditions for the b...
I mean
bigger pulls
sullen wyvern
Checking this discord a few days after not being here, see a pin, get excited, realize that we are even more bugged and we didnt notice
vivid vessel
like there is no question this season has bigger pull than last
fathom bramble
true
vivid vessel
last season for example the biggest pulls we had were first pull ara
and its all shitters that insta die
this season brew almost every pull is legit 20
and its not shitters that insta die
gaunt phoenix
doesn't explain why people felt off this week
but placebo/confirmation bias is strong xdd
fathom bramble
do we have a record of it happening without pc talented?
cinder relic
doesn't explain why people felt off this week
but placebo/confirmation bias is ...
Its mega placebo but
fathom bramble
when did they mess with caustic targetting
vivid vessel
few weeks ago i think lok
gaunt phoenix
ye
gaunt phoenix
in 11.0.5 the grand melee spell was updated to give it 200y range (?), at least from wowhead changelog
maybe some fuckery happened there
vivid vessel
fathom bramble
does the sub rogue blade flurry also have targetting issues?
candid locust
@peak crow wake up
gaunt phoenix
brother
frank finch
gaunt phoenix
peak crow
I'm awake
candid locust
good
peak crow
but if you're looking for a rage outlet, i slep
vivid vessel
@fathom bramble
candid locust
i can contain the rage for now
candid locust
i was wondering why i didnt hit the adds in one armed bandit
candid locust
now i know why
gaunt phoenix
does the sub rogue blade flurry also have targetting issues?
I remember steathli suggesting a similar thing in ara-kara once
you know when it was brought up last year
fathom bramble
forever ago
candid locust
but if you're looking for a rage outlet, i slep
are we getting anything for this spec?
vivid vessel
realz am i blocked cuh
gaunt phoenix
can you not
vivid vessel
like if im not melee range of these mobs
the tank isnt either no
or how does that work
i must be bad at the game
i will never find the vod of that run
fluid iron
I remember steathli suggesting a similar thing in ara-kara once
i did yeah, i was 100% sure something fishy was happening in ara kara
nimble just did 0 dmg in the first part of the dungeon
vivid vessel
ye bf is the same
was the same
we could never figure it out
or was the same
idk
lone crow
wait
vivid vessel
felt like it at least
vivid vessel
thought something was fishy when i did 6 mil damage on first pull brew
with 6 buffs
lone crow
lmao
vivid vessel
6 ace procs in a row
torpid fiber
like no cap
no it still has a cap
craggy quiver
Is it working properly under 8 targets?
vivid vessel
and 90% cirt chacne on bte
vivid vessel
Is it working properly under 8 targets?
who knows
fathom bramble
not exactly conclusive but random cinderbrew nimble seems to be working fine
craggy quiver
Or not enough info
fathom bramble
need more tests
gaunt phoenix
whatever the case it is not a deterministic issue
torpid fiber
Awesome that we finally got proof of bf not hitting target cap properly bc that's been a rumour for ages now
gaunt phoenix
yeah
candid locust
Awesome that we finally got proof of bf not hitting target cap properly bc that'...
yeah it s gonna get fixed at the same time as killing spree will
fathom bramble
nvm it just starts only hitting 4/5 halfway through the pack
craggy quiver
Y'all try this at a different dun
trail star
iirc bf bug was narrowed to be a bug with terrain? idk
torpid fiber
yeah it s gonna get fixed at the same time as killing spree will
It's better to have evidence than no evidence
fathom bramble
is it hitting dead mobs again?