outlaw

[glass mortar]

that is most definitly not the case

at least in terms of class tuning

[runic bough]

Anyways I crafted an axe for the max damage

[viscid forge]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[icy cedar]

Blackrock owns 5.854% of Miscrosoft as per last disclosure

[olive flax]

microsoft owns 100% of blizzard now as of the 2023 acquisition. Prior to this though, blackrock did have a controlling stake

[light kernel]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB as you enter dungeon to get Supercharger.
• ADR before key insert for the Loaded Dice buff and cp.
• DO NOT rtb again inside the bubble as you will lose the supercharger stacks, simillarly do not adr inside the bubble or you will lose the cps
• After the bubble drops RTB again (now at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF then Stealth
• Open on pack with ADR (in range with target, this will pull) into BtE.

[frail veldt]

I do think though that theres some cause as to why it takes them so long to address certain feedback/bugs but I'd wager its primarily due to resources

[bright crane]

It’s almost certainly due to resources

[frail veldt]

though the allocation of resources to things like bugs can definitley be a result from upper management being very "metrics" focused in a way that can hurt the game

[cinder relic]

THat's not what hes saying

He thinks shareholds are affecting balance

[frail veldt]

yeah im just trying to help form some argument similar to his viewpoint

that isnt entirely cooked

[cinder relic]

WHy steelman a stupid argument

[frail veldt]

hahaha idk its in my nature

benefit of the doubt

idk

[cinder relic]

White boys love to play devils advocate

I'm white boys

[frail veldt]

Im ethnically ambiguous

[icy cedar]

Blizzardis so far down the MSFT hierarchy that the Board probably has no idea they even exist

[olive flax]

Gaslighting 🤝 devils advocate

name a better combo in 2025

[cinder relic]

TO investors blizzard is a company that generates money

[glass mortar]

the way private equity would impact class changes would be if they decided they put too much money into class design period and cut (or moved) a large amount of devs off it

[fluid iron]

outlaw rogues and having a mental breakdown over nothing

[glass mortar]

so changes were slower/less often etc

thats about the closest u would get to what ryu suggested

[sharp sand]

Will this still be applicable

[glass mortar]

thats prey key

[icy cedar]

some of us didn't read the FAQ in like a year and were playing Aug for 3 patches!

[glass mortar]

this is as raid boss change

[sharp sand]

Ok

[olive flax]

me actually having to wait for my raid tank to pull

[runic bough]

Has anyone tested the variance in weapon max damage to ability damage?

Axes being best one hander for max damage as example

If you had good rng

Wouldn't it do more dmg

[fathom bramble]

no

[runic bough]

I made an axe cuz I usually like axes and the max damage is so much higher this season

[fluid iron]

[fathom bramble]

abilities do not scale with weapon damage

they scale with weapon dps

[icy cedar]

what about white hits

[runic bough]

I see

[fathom bramble]

even if they did it wouldn't matter

[frail veldt]

which very well may be the case

[runic bough]

Because they all share the same dps

[frail veldt]

I mean if youre objectively looking at what makes money in wow

its store mounts

[fathom bramble]

pretty sure white hits still use the damage range on your weapon and not weapondps

[cinder relic]

Shareholds got aug nerfed

[frail veldt]

and sub count ofc

good

[fathom bramble]

but it's not a meaningful difference in variance at all

[frail veldt]

shareholder W

[cinder relic]

They saw all the tweets happening and said "Guys theres too much negativity about aug you guys should do something about this"

[olive flax]

no way shareholders created aug

[frail veldt]

I mean

One could argue

aug was hurting popularity

[cinder relic]

no no no!

[potent gyro]

Are shareholders affecting my bad vaults?

[cinder relic]

[runic bough]

Yes

[frail veldt]

and aug was an unpopular spec, so the RoI on aug being added to the game might have been negative

[potent gyro]

The billionaires don’t want to see me become too powerful I see

[runic bough]

They told me to give Kpsull bad vaults for 5 weeks.

[patent mirage]

is this another yapping session

great

[potent gyro]

[frail veldt]

so if im a shareholder and I hear that a recently added feature was hurting the player count

id advocate for its removal in some way

[light dune]

speaking about the opener im curious for fatebound since we dont run loaded dice would it be better to RTB > AR instead so we dont waste a global in subterfuge? or do we want the AR gcd cooking immediately

[frail veldt]

lolol

outlaw sucking doesnt matter cuz the playerbase of outlaw is too small

its genuinely not worth their time to fix compared to other larger issues

[vivid vessel]

this pin is bad

remove this pin

i dont like it

@cinder relic thoughts?

[olive flax]

needs more siren emojis

[runic bough]

We need to recruit outlaws so that our player base matters. Thoughts?

[vivid vessel]

low effort pin

[frail veldt]

I mean, you may want to add "be very careful not to adr before boss combat starts or you will lose the buff and keep the cd"

for newer players

[vivid vessel]

i expect more from out community figure

[gaunt phoenix]

Prepull changes on PTR

...were reverted <t:1745277660:R>. Nothing is changing.

[vivid vessel]

going on strike now

ye

ty solo

good pin

[icy cedar]

the apm is too high for most of the game's boomer playerbase

you'd have to get young people to play the game

[cinder relic]

its the same pin he just put little pictures in

[frail veldt]

and?

[edgy walrus]

good pin

[runic bough]

[vivid vessel]

guy your pin was bad

dont be a hater

please

[cinder relic]

https://tenor.com/view/soulja-boy-copied-my-flow-stole-my-flow-word-for-word-bar-for-bar-gif-9024961158651407496

[olive flax]

solo pin > forever pin

[vivid vessel]

low quality pin

[icy cedar]

WoW players are getting arthritis nowadays

[vivid vessel]

in my high quality pin channel

cant accept this

[gaunt phoenix]

this is at least mildly important to note

[covert kestrel]

Damn this beautiful thanks dad

[cinder relic]

lol fair

[runic bough]

Guys we need to start training outlaw students.

[vivid vessel]

@gaunt phoenix actually solo

can you remove that pin

[fluid iron]

why would you do that to people?

[vivid vessel]

when they see it they are going to remove supercharger prepull

and then

[gaunt phoenix]

You think they will cut supercharger next

xd

[vivid vessel]

we will want to go back to rtb prepull

and we wont be able to

cause they removed that

thoughts ?

[frail veldt]

I dont like supercharger pre pull anyway

remove it

[jolly geyser]

I bet charger and kir is gone next expansion

[vivid vessel]

i will remove you mewo

[frail veldt]

hahahaha

[jolly geyser]

prolly ho also

[vivid vessel]

i like supercharger prepull because outlaw

opener

when you dont proc

is fucking abmisall

[frail veldt]

kir issue

[vivid vessel]

and this helps

anything that helps

i take

they will never take my key things tho

fuck you all

[still matrix]

Key things?

[frail veldt]

I hate the UB pre stacking

[vivid vessel]

you hate everything that is cool

why do you hate it

you just press ks

[frail veldt]

I hate having to do extra work before my key

[jolly geyser]

any prestacking should be gone

[bright crane]

Why? They’re fun playstyles. KiR already has an alternative. If anything they need to implement something as an alternative for CS

[vivid vessel]

bro litteraly hate for no reason

[vivid vessel]

ok common

this is just stupid

[runic bough]

True

[vivid vessel]

at least it makes outlaw somewhat better on first pull

which

lets be

[jolly geyser]

huh,I just send messages

[vivid vessel]

honest

outlaws need

[gaunt phoenix]

Idk prekey where you have to find a target and hit something is lame

[vivid vessel]

you know that

[frail veldt]

I want outlaw to be better on all pulls

not just first pull

[vivid vessel]

?

[frail veldt]

yeah thats what sucks zac

youre describing why its shit

[vivid vessel]

litteraly target > press ks > vanish

[frail veldt]

well no

[vivid vessel]

you all are complaining for nothing

[jolly geyser]

anything outside key buffs should be removed imo

[frail veldt]

you have to do that before SC stacking

[vivid vessel]

bro

[frail veldt]

so you dont consume your 2 SCs

[vivid vessel]

you are so lazy

just dont be lazy

and a noob

takes me 2 sec to do prepull shit

after a key i rtb in dornogal

[jolly geyser]

I just dont give a shit

[vivid vessel]

you guys are so bad at the game i swear

anything that helps outlaw

[jolly geyser]

and I wanna see people complain,its funny

[vivid vessel]

a little bit

[frail veldt]

well youll have to rtb again

after you ks

[bright crane]

Fuck it just remove buffs

[vivid vessel]

you are prolly the type of guy mewo

[bright crane]

Hell just remove keys

[vivid vessel]

that wanted rtb buffs

removed

on key start

now cause of you outlaw does tank dps

on first pull

this is all your fault

[runic bough]

GET EM ZAC

[frail veldt]

I want anything removed that adds more work

[upbeat tundra]

it always did wtf

[vivid vessel]

I hate you mewo

[patent mirage]

my yapping meter is off the charts

[vivid vessel]

bro its litteraly playing the spec

why should playing your spec starts when tyhe key start

[jolly geyser]

not our problem if devs cant buff accordingly

[sullen wyvern]

[vivid vessel]

[upbeat tundra]

based

[vivid vessel]

bro have to press 2 spells

before key is put in

and he cant do it

"work:

playing the game

[patent mirage]

i want the game to press buttons for me

[vivid vessel]

mf

you dojnt like playing the game

or waht

im just playing the game to its fullest

including what goes on before the key

for example before key

idk if you noticed

[jolly geyser]

but its the only game you play

[vivid vessel]

you have to put poisons on

then stones

then eat

[upbeat tundra]

this is raid only change tho right

[frail veldt]

Yeah I hate that

[vivid vessel]

then flask

[frail veldt]

poisons should last forever

[cinder relic]

Yes

[vivid vessel]

ye same cause its boring

[upbeat tundra]

so what is bro on about

[vivid vessel]

pre key shit arent boring tho

cause thye add damage

to me

my spec

more damage

[frail veldt]

I want to add damage

by doing my rotation well

[vivid vessel]

my trash spec that does tank damage

[frail veldt]

thats the kinda damage I like to add

[vivid vessel]

part of your rotation

is prepull

you noob

[frail veldt]

zzzzzzzz

[vivid vessel]

wtf are yousaying

[runic bough]

Given the state of outlaw damage it was pretty comical that they take away prebuffing alltogether to make it even worse.

[vivid vessel]

bro cant press 2 buttons pre pull

[frail veldt]

using a target dummy is a boring part of the rotation

[vivid vessel]

cause its not in wowhead guidde

its not in the apl

fr fr

[late swallow]

I would bet Blackrock owns a majority of blizzard stock. They are the reason many companies are no longer friendly to consumers.

[vivid vessel]

guys

cant do it

[frail veldt]

I just dont want to

[late swallow]

New ryu cook

[vivid vessel]

dont do it then

[frail veldt]

Zac I was there when we farmed 6 buffs pre key

[cinder relic]

Any bluepost that has even potentially incidental outlaw change is 9/11

[olive flax]

arguing for prekey nonsense is such a snooze. Outlaw sucks on first pull for other reasons, not whether or not we have RTB buffs or hit a turnip or whatever

[frail veldt]

so dont even tell me Im not willing to do the work

[vivid vessel]

im talking about something different

idk why you

aggro me

clush

[frail veldt]

I was there when we were setting up ER bug and then spamming for reroll into kir

[vivid vessel]

i have trickz can i redirect it to ryuk

[upbeat tundra]

this is legit the most milquetoast shit ever

[cinder relic]

That's what I'm saying

[vivid vessel]

and i bet you were one of the guys that wanted it gone

[covert kestrel]

Yum milktoast

[vivid vessel]

psychopath

[upbeat tundra]

bone apple tea

[vivid vessel]

now outlaw is shitter

[late swallow]

Mommy milk toast

[frail veldt]

It was fun but I was happy it got removed tbh

[vivid vessel]

cause nothing will ever be given to compensate

these tyupe of things

[frail veldt]

I dont want outlaw to be shittier

[jolly geyser]

emma frost

[vivid vessel]

bro tell me how its work

its playing the game

[frail veldt]

but I dont want the reason were good to be because we have good pre pull stuff

[vivid vessel]

but before the key is put in ????

[late swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/boobies-jim-carrey-suck-boobs-mama-gif-14376791

[frail veldt]

bro tell me how this pre pull is saving outlaw

[vivid vessel]

you only press keyboard when key is put in or

[frail veldt]

yeah p much

[vivid vessel]

bro is mouse only

[frail veldt]

im alt tabbed

[vivid vessel]

when key isnt in

[twilit nest]

hey zac fuck you but i love you

[vivid vessel]

takes 30s

[upbeat tundra]

yes i agree the pre-key shit is omega cringe and they should delete that too

[vivid vessel]

what is cringe about pressing 2 buttons

you press 20000 of them in a key

[jolly geyser]

zac the best, sent dm straight away he said no dms

[vivid vessel]

but you cant press 2

pre key

[frail veldt]

those buttons are more fun

[vivid vessel]

stfu bro

[olive flax]

yea idk how we are even arguing in favor of prekey stuff. Like yea its apart of the game but doesn't mean its intuitive or better.

[vivid vessel]

actual cringe take

cause lazy

cant press 2 buttons

[olive flax]

like I want to do my rotation and slam; not go through a 10 step program to enter a key with buffs

[vivid vessel]

idc about what is intuitive or not

half the game is not intuitive

[upbeat tundra]

why not just hit the 2000 buttons on a different class? why do u have to sexually identify as an outlaw rogue and then complain when its bad? why not just hit different icons on a different class? see how you can make anything sound trivial if you just phrase it correctly

[vivid vessel]

if you think people can figure out outlaw

[olive flax]

yea that's becuase your like hyper elitist

[vivid vessel]

by intuition

no because thats irrelevant

only thing intuitive about outlaw is that we have builders that gives combo points

and spender that spend them

[olive flax]

so you are like arguing for more unintiutive outlaw things then?

like what?

[vivid vessel]

?

[jolly geyser]

I agree and disagree with zac at the same time,my dick is confused

[twilit nest]

zac is lost in his own thoughts

[upbeat tundra]

yes im guessing he thinks shit like this adds some kind of knowledge gap or extra thing he can do to be better than others

[vivid vessel]

no i just dont care if there is a few minmaxes that arnet intuivite ????

[upbeat tundra]

thats my best guess at it

[vivid vessel]

its part of the game

[upbeat tundra]

not anymore it isnt

[vivid vessel]

90% of the games hyper casuals have no idea about

[vivid vessel]

ye ?

its cool that some stuffs are just learned

[timber knoll]

You literally need guides and weakauras to even begin to learn to play rogue lol you couldn’t figure out the general vibe of it by yourself

[vivid vessel]

its part of what makes a spec interesting

all the little minmaxes

you discover

which btw

wow is filled with

[cinder relic]

I think with some basic heuristics outlaw, at least HO, isn't that complicated

[upbeat tundra]

xdd

[vivid vessel]

so idk what you guys are even arguing about

[cinder relic]

Press generators, dont overcap, reroll a bunch

[vivid vessel]

also i think you still have no idea what im talking about

[cinder relic]

it's not like, ret paladin, everything lines up type shit but HO is fairly simple broadly speaking

[vivid vessel]

so idk why you ever replied to me in the first time

im arguing with people that have no idea no wae

[late swallow]

No you just can’t have a fun and straightforward class because….you just can’t okay!!!!!

[vivid vessel]

iim wasting my time

[elfin marsh]

Wuts going on in here

[upbeat tundra]

autism

[elfin marsh]

Stop
Bullying Zac

[vivid vessel]

?

[copper anchor]

Outlaw Rogue: The current opener for Outlaw Rogue involves using Adrenaline Rush and Roll the Bones pre-pull. Both these buffs will be removed on pull in Patch 11.1.5 and the spec may need to have a new opener for the Patch.
RiP pre pull

[vivid vessel]

also

^ how is this

intuitive

btw

also

secondly

this only impact people

that are clueless

[twilit nest]

yo do you guys not work like at all??

[vivid vessel]

and werent even doing the proper opener

anyway

[vivid vessel]

easter day

holiday

[elfin marsh]

Without the non-intuitive, marginal games and interactions, outlaw is just the most boring pos spec in the game

[vivid vessel]

[cinder relic]

I don't even mention the prepull stuff in guide anyway afaik

[elfin marsh]

Gains*

[cinder relic]

So idk where they pulled that info from

[vivid vessel]

its common knowledge if you played outlaw once in your life

[covert kestrel]

If you don't work somewhere that allows you to yap all day, you need to up your value and start sigma maxxing

[elfin marsh]

Mfers just want to spam sinister strike and evis like the good old days

[vivid vessel]

cause we have been doing that

[elfin marsh]

[vivid vessel]

for aproximativel

15 years

about

[frail veldt]

Yapping while code builds

[twilit nest]

not like you guys arent doing exactly this on non holidays

[vivid vessel]

yep

mad ?

[twilit nest]

true

[twilit nest]

no id just kill for 10s of zac attention no joke

[frail veldt]

Yeah imagine not being able to yap while working

[vivid vessel]

blocked

idk who you are

[twilit nest]

GG

[vivid vessel]

blocking randoms now

you go in the yapper list

bb

[light dune]

can someone let me know if this is incorrect / doesn't matter

[vivid vessel]

ye

[covert kestrel]

Am I random

[vivid vessel]

careful tho

dont rtb before boss is pulled

becasue thats what you would be doing

just saying

[light dune]

yeah so on pull RTB > AR checks out as slightly better?

[jolly geyser]

what you guys need in vault on reset day?

[upbeat tundra]

a rework

[covert kestrel]

Ks fix

[runic bough]

Guys can we all agree that outlaw dmg is not up to par compared to other specs. The changes made still do not address this. They decided to bully us again with prepull removal. We are still forever waiting for a non-negative tuning. One day guys. One....d..day....waaaahhhhhhhhh

[jolly geyser]

I wanted gear answers

[gaunt phoenix]

bro

!mute @upbeat tundra 6h sorry, i dont let typing autism (derogatory) fly

[vivid vessel]

noob get owned

[covert kestrel]

Helm of Fixing Killing Spree

Equip: You no longer teleport when you press killing spree and can move while it casts

[vivid vessel]

imagine getting mutted by solo

[jolly geyser]

its off the filter

[patent mirage]

what we need is a few changes here and there

[vivid vessel]

skill issue fr fr

[twilit nest]

oh shit we got an activist here

[cinder relic]

RYUKAGE ARE YOU AWARE THAT THE SPEC DIDN'T WANT TO DO PREPULL SHIT TO BEGIN WITH

[potent gyro]

Rekt

[runic bough]

Why you yelling at me

[patent mirage]

baboon

[cinder relic]

I NEED YOU TO ACKNOWLEDGE THIS FACT

[covert kestrel]

David you are the king of being muted lmao

[vivid vessel]

dont listen to guy he is just a hater

you are based my goat

[cinder relic]

"They decided to bully us again with prepull removal."

[vivid vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/the-goat-gif-4115569673926897153

[cinder relic]

THE SPEC DIDN'T DO PREPULL THINGS IN RAID

[twilit nest]

dude im goated

[vivid vessel]

guy stop yapping

[cinder relic]

HOW ARE YOU BEING BULLIED

[twilit nest]

actually crazy

[cinder relic]

EXPLAIN

[vivid vessel]

dont hate on the goat

please

[potent gyro]

Pls stop yelling at my king

[runic bough]

Why are my full cp's removed upon going into combat in raid Guy?

That's being bullied

[cinder relic]

THAT DIDN'T GET CHANGED THIS PATCH

[covert kestrel]

Ryukage for green name 2025

[vivid vessel]

why does guy think he can yell at my king with no consequence?

[cinder relic]

"They decided to bully us again with prepull removal."

[twilit nest]

true imagine a healer starting fight without mana

literally same thing

[cinder relic]

WE WERENT DOING PREPULL SHIT

[vivid vessel]

!mute 6h @cinder relic ok enough is enough, you can come back when you are calmer (ps: dont insult my goat ever again, this is the first warning)

[cinder relic]

NOTHING IS DIFFERENT

[patent mirage]

i forsee another baboon arc

[runic bough]

Prepull is like activating our self buff, why is that removed though?

[patent mirage]

oh no

[cinder relic]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-try-not-to-laugh-gif-7682731162751353849

[runic bough]

My last comment on that

[vivid vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/iron-man-jarvis-remove-his-balls-gif-24586239

[jolly geyser]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/871080348279263242/1361040622542389259/image0.jpg?ex=6807db5b&is=680689db&hm=bed3360395646a5fda15fd3116af5c87901e23c3f09b3335054ffa70288bf455&

[olive flax]

imagine raid buffs getting removed on pull, literally the same thing

[cinder relic]

You are literally just complaining to complain

[jolly geyser]

oh wrong channel

[cinder relic]

The spec wasn't nerfed by this change

Stop posting stupid shit

[vivid vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/xinging-xinging-monkey-monkey-monkey-speech-xinging-speech-bubble-gif-17417339258175886022

[patent mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/the-voices-meme-cat-gif-23917781

[latent oak]

tfw ur in a victim complex competition and ryukage is ur opponent

[vivid vessel]

tfw ur in a contrarian competition and guy is ur opponent

[hybrid crown]

But our super complex important burst opener was just delayed by 2 globals

[twilit nest]

yo zac let me roll your bones

[runic bough]

What is twf?

[hybrid crown]

Our burst is dead now

[bright crane]

https://tenor.com/view/master-kung-fu-words-of-wisdom-you-will-never-defeat-me-gif-16716400

[twilit nest]

yo zac lemme roll your balls

[vivid vessel]

no

ty

[twilit nest]

😔

[vivid vessel]

!ban @twilit nest your name is david

[potent gyro]

He’s gone mad with power

[covert kestrel]

When an unstoppable force (Ryukage on a yap bender) meets an immovable object (ForeverGuy being a contrarian and logic nerd)

[jolly geyser]

green zuc comeback

[twilit nest]

THIS

[runic bough]

This guy abused woman I do not approve

[twilit nest]

WE NEED A MOVIE MADE NOW

[potent gyro]

So how big of a dps loss is the pre pull nerf anyway like 5%?

[cinder relic]

It's not being a logic nerd it's just people are fucking annoying

[runic bough]

I get it

[cinder relic]

There is no nerf here. Why is ryukage talking about the spec being nerfed????

[dense bolt]

he gets it dw

[cinder relic]

the optimal opener and rotation has not changed

[covert kestrel]

By saying things that are in contrast with your logical viewpoint ofc

[dense bolt]

[runic bough]

I said we are being bullied this was a chain nerf starting in s1.

[cinder relic]

I'm going to blow you up

[runic bough]

Actually this chain nerf started in df.

[latent oak]

i never knew guy was so based

LMAO

[runic bough]

When they started removing prepull buffs.

[latent oak]

did the chain nerfs happen to coincide with when u started playing outlaw ryu

[cinder relic]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-try-not-to-laugh-gif-7682731162751353849

[twilit nest]

When you first sent this gif i just started laughing IRL

this clip is insane

[dense bolt]

https://tenor.com/view/woo-okay-gif-22413361

[runic bough]

I was outlaw before the prepull removals it was nice to have everything active on first pull.

[twilit nest]

come on ryu

[rotund pulsar]

dk's been pretty fun

[vivid vessel]

blow me, dont touch my king

[runic bough]

Now you have to activate adr and rtb after pull so

[cinder relic]

https://tenor.com/view/glorp-explosion-gif-7138394752046712707

[lime lake]

Just another showing of outlaw being kept down by the patriarchy

Truly the most oppressed spec

[dense bolt]

you are in a key stop yapping

[jolly geyser]

bigger problem than KS,why are youtube thumbnails so big on pc now

[runic bough]

Its the resolution

And scale of your resolution

[vivid vessel]

wa in ks

[runic bough]

You can modify the scaling in display settings.

Windows display settings

[jolly geyser]

you dont say

[runic bough]

Oh I'm sorry did you not want help

I'm just trying to help an outlaw

[stray ginkgo]

I reccomend deleting system 32

It will fix the issue

[hybrid crown]

Start buying more taco bell and mountain dew

[runic bough]

Guys he's trolling don't do it

You will need to restart your pc

!!!!!

[stray ginkgo]

I have never trolled once i am an ethical poster who is always helpful

[twilit nest]

delete sys32 for better fps... it literally clears wow logs dude stop lying

[robust blade]

/wa

[runic bough]

[robust blade]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[runic bough]

I need to get the bte wa tracker again now that I'm outlaw

I forgot about that

[stray ginkgo]

You can get between these eyes

[runic bough]

I'm sorry I only get that close to Asian women.

Oh wait

You can be in line of sight, its not actually physically close right

[fluid meadow]

why do we hit during ks from narnia and not reaching them? really not matter cuz we soak everything but at least we lose targets too

[runic bough]

Does ks need to be in melee range to activate?

[latent oak]

do u mean for bladeflurry range?

[fluid meadow]

1st picture is during ks where 4 target in bf range, 2nd is melee position where ks start

[runic bough]

I see

[latent oak]

just bc bladeflurry is an aoe around u right

so its always gunna happen that sometimes u tp out of range of some mobs

[stray ginkgo]

[runic bough]

I think its just positioning your rogue around hit boxes.

[stray ginkgo]

Skill issue if you miss mobs

[rotund zodiac]

https://tenor.com/view/hi-mods-and-staff-ily-gif-25934904

[runic bough]

Hit boxes are all mis-matched in this game. They can be smaller or bigger than the visual target size.

[fluid meadow]

def skill issue if we are 3 yr away from mob when we start from middle

[latent oak]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/363322658122760192/966780522586054717/1616390341281.gif

[runic bough]

Yo flushies the goat

[rotund zodiac]

Hii chat

[stray ginkgo]

Waiting to see a clip of someone going down a line of mobs with ks onto a flying mob off a cliff or something.

[runic bough]

You missed all the yapping flushies but it was the usual.

[rotund zodiac]

hmmm

lemme scroll up

[runic bough]

Its all random usual stuff

[fathom bramble]

KS unfortunately puts you near max melee range on each teleport

so against mobs with especially large hitboxes you will fly out of the pack far enough to have BF miss stuff

the only exception to this are mobs with a non-standard anchor point like last boss mechagon

or Gally

[rotund zodiac]

ok those were funny

[runic bough]

Flushies can you do a fatebound kir 10 key at your gear lvl so I can have a goal to reach?

[twilit nest]

fatebound kir key loool

shut up dude

[runic bough]

I wasn't talking to you

[tired ice]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB as you enter dungeon to get Supercharger.
• ADR before key insert for the Loaded Dice buff and cp.
• DO NOT rtb again inside the bubble as you will lose the supercharger stacks, simillarly do not adr inside the bubble or you will lose the cps
• After the bubble drops RTB again (now at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF then Stealth
• Open on pack with ADR (in range with target, this will pull) into BtE.

[runic bough]

If we do the same key with different builds.

We can get a rough idea of them

I'm gonna do that when I get to a higher ilvl

[rotund zodiac]

I don’t think I can with my gears rn

[runic bough]

Not enough haste

[rotund zodiac]

16%

Oh I forget the haste flask

[runic bough]

I see

What ilvl are you

[rotund zodiac]

I’ll try doing one later

667

[runic bough]

Cool thanks

[dawn tundra]

Ooh boy, more changes to Outlaw to keep in mind.

[patent mirage]

is it over

[dawn tundra]

AR/RTB is getting hit with the nerf bat.

[patent mirage]

it isnt though

[covert kestrel]

[patent mirage]

lets not turn this to wowhead

[dawn tundra]

So this isn't that big of a change?

[fluid meadow]

why not the same at rookery 1st boss then to ks in one place safety? we tp into the hole but hitbox is like 20yr during intermission, so much contradiction in scripts

[covert kestrel]

Nerp

[lime lake]

Nerp is suspiciously close to nerf

Sus

[covert kestrel]

But slightly punishing if you fuck up and press RtB or ar prepull, you get boned

With ar it's basically a "jump off the edge and go next" angle

[cinder relic]

You didn't prepull stuff anyway

So it's a non change

gonna talk to wowhead to get it changed

[patent mirage]

wowhead with its typical clickbait style

[cinder relic]

It's just a global rules change, not a global rules change (nerf)

[stray ginkgo]

[cinder relic]

How is the article click bait?

[stray ginkgo]

Guys panic

[cinder relic]

This is the headline of the article

[hybrid crown]

I think we are all panicked out from ks

[fathom bramble]

I suspect it has to do with the boss increasing their hitbox during the mechanic

and KS just uses the base/default or something

[gaunt phoenix]

"the spec may change its opener" is a pretty tame thing to type when possible opener stuff is involved

[valid kindle]

while I wouldn't say clickbaity since this isn't in the title this is misleading

[cinder relic]

It's just wrong info

I'm gonna talk to them after I'm done eating to tweak it

being wrong, and clickbait are two different things either way

Clickbait would be "HUGE NERFS TO MULTIPLE SPECS IN THIS UPCOMING PATCH"

[stray ginkgo]

Local single wow players on your server want to be ur discord gf

[gaunt phoenix]

Outlaw rogue gutted in sudden hotfix (that already happened)

[exotic agate]

5% buff would be nice

[vivid vessel]

i mean

still have to consider

that this opener have been done for 15 years

and will be done again

(well not anymore)

[wide nexus]

If wowhead titled an article saying that blizzard nerfed outlaw rogue barely anyone would read it

[cinder relic]

The opener changes sometimes yes

[hybrid crown]

I feel like fixing double coup bug was hardly noticed

[vivid vessel]

i noticed

[hybrid crown]

Even though that was kinda big

Lol

[vivid vessel]

i still cant do the damage i was doing 4 weeks ago

[mild vigil]

I also noticed while I was in raid

and was very upset

[wide nexus]

I don't think anyone who didn't play outlaww understood what the bug was doing

[mild vigil]

actually ruined my night

[vivid vessel]

its mostly noticeable in m+ imo

carried adr uptime

we lost like 10% adr uptime in the worse cases

[mild vigil]

yeah def but it also helped a ton in raid

[fathom bramble]

we would be rpecasting AR right now if improved adrenaline rush were not bugged

[vivid vessel]

well idk

in raid you have mostly 100% uptime

so its not as bad

[fathom bramble]

it would be a small gain

but you would do it imo

[mild vigil]

it helped more with the pulls where you were extremely unlucky

[vivid vessel]

I mean the day i press adr prepull by accident

trust me im jumping off

[light kernel]

how the fuck u play outaw in 16 first pack cinderbrew

[vivid vessel]

haha

[wide nexus]

I think rtb is going to be worse

[vivid vessel]

funny

[vivid vessel]

?

[wide nexus]

just the muscle memory

[mild vigil]

you wake up b/c you're not getting brought

[vivid vessel]

ah

well

its fine i dont have muscle memory

just unlearn

[light kernel]

well i got my own key 😛

[mild vigil]

https://tenor.com/view/damn-damn-album-kendrick-lamar-rapper-made-by-bxnes-gif-1543897498830457186

unlucky

should've picked a softcapped class

[wide nexus]

damn I didn't think of it like that

[vivid vessel]

invite big aoe blasters

boomies

dk

mm

you need to get carried

basically

[light kernel]

yh

[mild vigil]

yeah you actually won't do anything until after the first room

[vivid vessel]

you wont do anything till the end of the dungeon

[light kernel]

i pad on last pack which resets hp kekw

[exotic agate]

last 4 mobs kekw

[hybrid crown]

That last trash pull is sick for outlaw with pc

Broken op

[mild vigil]

reminds me of how outlaw's stats are padded by first four bosses in mythic

oh and one armed, if you're insane

[exotic agate]

one armed as outlaw

[mild vigil]

outlaw's profile is actually good for the fight

[exotic agate]

big mouseover macro value

[mild vigil]

it just sucks b/c you have to hold KS a lot

I would also like to refer to how outlaw has a sample size of n = 20 on bandit, compared to sin with a sample size of n = 1,011

🙂

solution: just be the best at outlaw possible while battling the rng of the spec and the boss

[cinder relic]

Outlaw is being inflated by every fight being fine for it

Smh

[mild vigil]

oh yeah don't get me wrong, you can play outlaw just fine in every one of these fights

but it's not always the best choice

[vivid vessel]

litteraly trolling plauing this spec on prog

you would see what im doing on gallywaxer

actual psyuchopath gameplay

[runic bough]

I'm having fun as outlaw

I dont really care about dmg anymore

[magic shuttle]

Press killing spree and get mechanic mid cast

Get pinged by raid

Fun times

[mild vigil]

:3

[vivid vessel]

i pressed ks and got the beams right

even tho i was far by the end of the beam

you bet

[runic bough]

I saw that

[vivid vessel]

raidleader wasnt happy

[runic bough]

Zac got so lucky ks didn't go in the beams

I bet you were sweating

[vivid vessel]

no well

i know what im doing

[runic bough]

[proven ocean]

hopeful gapping fired up

lmaoaoaoaoo

better mage confirmed

[exotic agate]

good thing have not pressed ks during 2nd boss big beam

[fathom bramble]

the fact that casting KS when the beam is about to target someone is a realistically safe spot to KS is so funny to me

even if it goes on you there is more than enough time to aim it

you just get to scare the entire raid for 1.5 seconds

[vivid vessel]

he bottom mage wdym

[proven ocean]

ye end of fight

he had to soak

[cinder relic]

Prog and farm are two different games. Wcl performance doesn't really tell you either

[vivid vessel]

sure

just saying

you dont want an outlaw rogue

casting ks

in your raid

on prog

[fathom bramble]

unfortunately outlaw is almost always bad on prog

[vivid vessel]

i can tell you that much

[fathom bramble]

it is what it is

KS just made it worse

[vivid vessel]

• you dont want an outlaw rogue either

[fathom bramble]

waay worse

[vivid vessel]

just straight up

[vivid vessel]

what beam

oih on cauldran

i was confued

[fathom bramble]

yeah sorry

the flarendo beam

[vivid vessel]

thinking of gallywaxer

[fathom bramble]

yeah gally beam on KS is much more sus if you bait it poorly lol

[runic bough]

Was there ever a season where outlaw could do prog?

[cinder relic]

Castle nathria, vault of the incarnates

[rustic talon]

DF S1

[mild vigil]

I did ansurek prog on outlaw

[fathom bramble]

usually only when all 3 specs are bad

[mild vigil]

b/c I'm clinically insane and didn't want to play sub

[cinder relic]

Rogue was good in vault

[runic bough]

Hmm

[fathom bramble]

Castle nathria we were allegedly good, but I didn't get to play that tier so

[cinder relic]

I remember we played double rogue all of prog

[vivid vessel]

the baits arent on you tho

[cinder relic]

And it was like, totally acceptable

[fathom bramble]

idk peopel kept saying it could be baited on melee

idk if I believed them

[vivid vessel]

ye well

since that guy told me

it wasnt on melee

and then idk when

where

but i saw another confirmation

i stopped baiting

never went on me once

im always behind boss

always

[fathom bramble]

the last time outlaw was a clear winner was on orgozoa

[vivid vessel]

cause better positionment for blazes

[fathom bramble]

other than that we have only ever been decent/good enough at most

[cinder relic]

Outlaw was low key a carry spec on a lot of the vault fights it felt like to me idk

[fathom bramble]

disregarding nathria

since I skipped it

[cinder relic]

Diurna, kurog

Kurog was kinda rough early on

Outlaw did big things on that fight

[fathom bramble]

we could do good add damage

most guilds seemed to favor boss damage instead for their rogues though

probably just due to that being their preferred spec though it's hard to say

[cinder relic]

Well yeah it kinda depended on your comp specifically but I remember us playing 2x outlaw rogue and just having both sit on the adds and even then some of the checks were tight, but then everybody else got to go pure ST damage and it was GG

Stealthi played sub on that fight and it was turbo dogshit

I member

[fathom bramble]

we were actually properly good on kurog though

we had most add sets dead early so I was spending a lot of time bladerush/hooking across the room to hit the boss a bit

[exotic agate]

bladerush caused so many deaths tho back in the days

[cinder relic]

did it?

[fathom bramble]

how?

[haughty wigeon]

R we okay guys

[fathom bramble]

I think my only death to blade rush ever was casting it on a ball on painsmith

[haughty wigeon]

No?

[fathom bramble]

and really I don't know what I was expecting dashing to an instant death orb

[runic bough]

Yeah wut

[exotic agate]

if you were out of melee range and used it

[haughty wigeon]

I don’t think br killed us

[cinder relic]

We had acro back then too

Like

[fathom bramble]

I guess

[cinder relic]

I think ur inventing this

[fathom bramble]

that's just not something I've ever experienced

[cinder relic]

I mean either way I would say CN + Vault were mostly speaking full Outlaw tiers. I think a few people ended up changing to Sub/sin for Diurna raza for more ST/sectec on the add set

[fathom bramble]

are you talking leaving range by accident and just dashing when you didn't mean to

[vivid vessel]

i think thats the issue tho

wasnt br

range

smaller than acro

[cinder relic]

No

[vivid vessel]

so if you were max acro you would dahs in with br

[cinder relic]

Nope

[fathom bramble]

BR dash distance was adjusted by acro, but not hit and run

[vivid vessel]

ah hit and run

you are right ye

[fathom bramble]

so if you were further than 8 yards with hit and run you could dash without leaving melee range

[cinder relic]

I played a lot of outlaw in DF

and in BFA

I never once in my life died to blade rush

Like literally never I think

[vivid vessel]

ye but you are goated

[cinder relic]

I managed to die to coup like twice

[vivid vessel]

the goat

litteral goat no cap

[cinder relic]

Coup was way worse for that shit than BR

[vivid vessel]

freakazoid multispec master

[vivid vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/perro-pedro-pedro-dog-wallpaper-reloj-gif-3351838592393772947

[fathom bramble]

I think I only ever really had accidental dashes with hit and run before I figured out what was going on

never died to it though since that was a key only build

that was also a season I got title in

good season

[haughty wigeon]

I don’t think I’ve died to br ever tbh

[fathom bramble]

bring back blade rush

[haughty wigeon]

Maybe painsmith???

But I might be thinking of felblade

[fathom bramble]

yeah my only one was stupidly dashing to a ball since hook wasn't up

[vivid vessel]

i remember being scared of it on paintsmith lol

[cinder relic]

ks removal Blade rush rebalancing, trickster to bladerush

[fathom bramble]

you ever think about how blade rush isn' a fel rush copy

but is instead a felblade copy

[vivid vessel]

you ever think about killing spree on painsmith

[runic bough]

They should do a shadowlands raid timewalking

[fathom bramble]

imagine how much worse the spell would be if it was a fel rush copy

[cinder relic]

Blade Blade

[vivid vessel]

wati

[fathom bramble]

I would like to stop thinking about it now ty

[vivid vessel]

why

[haughty wigeon]

It’s funny

[vivid vessel]

im confused

oh

fell rush

nvm

ye

[haughty wigeon]

I think

I like felrush more than blade

[vivid vessel]

???????????????

[magic shuttle]

Ks on painsmith was unplayable

[vivid vessel]

bro this guy a psychopath

no cap

[magic shuttle]

Didn't have stagger mechanic

[fathom bramble]

imagine trying to cast fel rush every 10 seconds like we use to with BR

[vivid vessel]

also fell blade is a smaller gcd right

banger

[fathom bramble]

jesus christ

[haughty wigeon]

Oh no

[magic shuttle]

So it's just instant death

[haughty wigeon]

Fr every two seconds was cringe

Obvi

[fathom bramble]

as like a movement skill though fell rush is cool

[haughty wigeon]

Later where it was felrush for every w burst window was more tolerable

[vivid vessel]

meh

[haughty wigeon]

Moving your camera around to use felrush defensively and offensively was fun

[vivid vessel]

i really dislike these type of movement controls

like its not precise

[haughty wigeon]

I do like

[vivid vessel]

i much prefer grapple

[haughty wigeon]

Vring the felblading back to the target tho

[vivid vessel]

goated

[fathom bramble]

grapple is better for sure

[vivid vessel]

ideally uyou want blink mixed with grapple

[fathom bramble]

fell rush is just more useful than a charge

[vivid vessel]

just ground targeted tp

[haughty wigeon]

Grapple is the goat

[vivid vessel]

thats the best movement in the game

[haughty wigeon]

https://tenor.com/view/levi-aot-coil-odm-gif-21497555

[fathom bramble]

grapple is probably the strongest movement skill in the game right now

[haughty wigeon]

Playing outlaw with grapple

[vivid vessel]

it is

[fathom bramble]

thanks to the high range, high precision, and very low cooldown

[vivid vessel]

love grapple

[cinder relic]

it is by far not close

[vivid vessel]

aslo

reemember how people were clowning

how double grapple wouldnt be useful

[fathom bramble]

only exception is palces where a teleport is broken for a mechanic

[vivid vessel]

look at it now

[magic shuttle]

If only they didn't break grapple more and more each patch.

[vivid vessel]

how broken it is

[haughty wigeon]

4 grapples

[vivid vessel]

i love grappling out and in

[haughty wigeon]

Love it

[vivid vessel]

fucking banger

[fathom bramble]

true

[random stirrup]

never heard a truer statement

[haughty wigeon]

Fuck shadowstep

[fathom bramble]

better than shadowstep 99% of the time

[vivid vessel]

step is so bad

im so glad we got double grapple instead of step

[haughty wigeon]

Pre rework

[vivid vessel]

fuck step

[fathom bramble]

trying to mouseover a friendly raider to trick your movement skill into not sucking

[vivid vessel]

love step

way better

[haughty wigeon]

It was hard to get grapple charges with a build

[frail veldt]

wait

[haughty wigeon]

Cringe build

[frail veldt]

are you trolling

[random stirrup]

raid group telling me to go get a far sprocket bomb while sprint on cd as sub

[vivid vessel]

no im not

[frail veldt]

thats insane

[vivid vessel]

i have been saying that forever

[desert tendon]

outlaw should ve never gotten step

[random stirrup]

glad my options are: walk

[frail veldt]

I miss step so much

[vivid vessel]

that i would gladly give up step

for a second grapple

[random stirrup]

dk faster than rogue no sprint!

[vivid vessel]

its just much better

[frail veldt]

having both is so much better htan having two of either

[fathom bramble]

I would give up step for literally anything else

[vivid vessel]

and with double grapple you cant do most things you could with step

[haughty wigeon]

Let me cosplay as Levi

[vivid vessel]

nah

fuck that

[fathom bramble]

outside of pvp cringe step-kick it's just not a good movement spell

[vivid vessel]

loser mentality

[frail veldt]

just aint true

[vivid vessel]

it is

[frail veldt]

you cant grapple up ledges

[vivid vessel]

you just arent creative enough

waht

i can

what ledges

[wide nexus]

grapple with FB is crazy, 4 grapples is insane movement, too bad fatebound is shit

[frail veldt]

show me your grapple up to last boss of cinderbrew

pls

[vivid vessel]

are we talking about open world

?

[haughty wigeon]

As ret

[vivid vessel]

bro took the most useless example

[haughty wigeon]

I don’t like having nothing for knockbacks

[vivid vessel]

please be serious with me

this is a grown up converstation mewo

[desert tendon]

xD

[frail veldt]

Show me your grapple through the beam on 2nd boss workshop

[fathom bramble]

have you tried that actually

[frail veldt]

yes

[vivid vessel]

why do you ever need that

what beam

oh

workshop

ye

[frail veldt]

cuz your dumb tank puts the boss on the wrong side

[vivid vessel]

third boss

[fathom bramble]

if you mess up and get left behind

[vivid vessel]

you mean

[frail veldt]

3rd whatever

[frail veldt]

the flower gear bos

[vivid vessel]

i mean you never need to do that

and you can cloak it

[frail veldt]

except when you do

[quaint wharf]

[frail veldt]

no you cant cloak it lol

[vivid vessel]

you can

[frail veldt]

Ive tried that

[vivid vessel]

just the first 1 sec of imune

[fathom bramble]

cloak prevents stacks for 1 second

[vivid vessel]

you need to be fast you are too slow

[fathom bramble]

and removes any you havee

[vivid vessel]

grandpa

[frail veldt]

oh sure

[patent mirage]

you can cloak the beam

def

[frail veldt]

ive tried to cloak off the dot

and it didnt work

[vivid vessel]

grapple trouhg with cloak

[quaint wharf]

theres a cool skip on floodgate you can do with step

[vivid vessel]

easy enough

[quaint wharf]

before duo boss

[patent mirage]

what you cant cloak is getting hit

[frail veldt]

yeah so much better than just stepping................

[patent mirage]

by the gears

[vivid vessel]

the things you can do with grapple > the things you can do with step

[fathom bramble]

I'm like 51% sure I KSed into a beam and cloaked off the dot idk

[frail veldt]

tahts why both is better

[quaint wharf]

ye i agree with this

[frail veldt]

when do you ever need a second charge of grapple

[quaint wharf]

but also having both was fun ngl

[vivid vessel]

no cause double grapple allows way more thigns lol

[frail veldt]

Im not saying step is better htan grapple

im saying step + grapple is better than 2x grapple

[vivid vessel]

bro asked when do you ever need a second charge of grapple

when im litteralyt using them

on cd

[fathom bramble]

step has the edge cases where it becomes occasionally useful

[vivid vessel]

[frail veldt]

grapple has such a short cd

[vivid vessel]

alright brother