outlaw

[keen belfry]

ST

No affix keys

[vivid vessel]

1.6 to 2.4

idk

depends on raid buff and rng

[keen belfry]

2.4 would be crazy

[vivid vessel]

and if you can cast ks

[keen belfry]

The variance I see in some specs and their m+ boss damage

[vivid vessel]

well outlaw variance is abit different

like there is a lot of rng right now thats for sure

but

its also a lot about the boss

• can you ks on cd

• do you lose uptime

stuffs like that you know

[keen belfry]

Yeag

Every key needs a ST blaster

[vivid vessel]

well

[keen belfry]

Some of these specs do no st dmg

[vivid vessel]

its not really outlaw tho

isnt that what arcane

does

st

and prio

outalw does 0 prio

and the st is good

but it can also be terrible

depending on boss and rng

[keen belfry]

Their st is “good” it’s crazy when you let it funnel aka bring stuff onto boss

[vivid vessel]

hm

[keen belfry]

It’s better than good it’s like fire mage ST in keys

Pure ST

But you gain ~40% ST if you let it funnel

[vivid vessel]

i see

[keen belfry]

I had a DFC first boss, 2.6mil dps damage to boss

No lust no pot

It’s kind absurd if you let it funnel

[vivid vessel]

ye

its unfortunate that outalw has legit 0 prio gain

wish it still had that at least

or idk

i think its rather that every spec in the game funnel now

or cleave

[keen belfry]

Prio is kinda op this season man

[vivid vessel]

so our "niche" of doing prio while cleaving

is like

not a thing anymore

cause everyuone does it

if you remmeber in df it wasnt the case

[keen belfry]

Ye

Law needs love

It needs a lil something

I’m keeping mine geared for the KS fix in .5

Trickster is banger tree kinda

Besides ks

[wicked acorn]

lowkey respeccing to outlaw because sin does no fucking st in m+

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[astral glen]

Ah dammit. I wondered if I shouldn't go sin because I struggle to squeeze DPS with outlaw xP

[wicked acorn]

sins aoe can defo make up for it

[astral glen]

Possibly! The help I got (on this very Discord) already helped a ton tho ^^ Went from a paltry 500k to consistent 800-900k. With my gear tho i should be able to squeeze 1.1m, so... training time xP

[wicked acorn]

whats ur ilvl?

[astral glen]

649

[wicked acorn]

r u talking about st?

[astral glen]

Yeah ST^^

[wicked acorn]

with m+ talents?

[astral glen]

Raid ST (HO+Trickster+Supercharged)

[wicked acorn]

oh

bro you should be doing more than 1.1m st

with actual st talents

unless your stat weights are completely abysmal

[astral glen]

(unbuffed)

[wicked acorn]

yeah

bit farked

once ya stat weights get there you'll feel alot better about yourself

[astral glen]

Yeah... xP I restarted playing two weeks ago, coming from Shadowlands gear. So... I took whatever was an ilvl upgrade 😂

[wicked acorn]

tuf yeah

[astral glen]

tbh a lot of it is also skill issue (not at all the same DPS cycles than I was used to in SL), and uptime (I don't know the bosses yet, so I tend to be extra careful, probably way too much).

[merry harness]

Yeah outlaw atm is about being as reckless as possible

[astral glen]

(Killing spree killed me a fair few times xD)

[ebon reef]

not too bbad

[ebon reef]

i usually just delay it with a few bte/dp

if i dont have cloak/eva

i learned my lesson

[astral glen]

Well goddamn.

Time for me to train more :p

[rotund zodiac]

I press KS on CD and pray

[astral glen]

(and yeah, lessons were harshly learned with KS xD)

I miss acrobatic strikes so much though.

[vivid vessel]

i think if you train enough you can mostly send ks on cd

sometimes you will die cause its bugged

or cause you made a mistake

but thats why you play cheat

[rotund zodiac]

[astral glen]

(Yesterday I sent KS just before Mug'zee's cone tank buster, and I took it in the face. That's when you know. You keep killing spree'ing, but you know you're going to horribly die the second it's over 🥲 )

[vivid vessel]

I cant be arssed trying to play ks without cheat ngl

too hard

you need to preposition

with kilkling spree

a lot

[rotund zodiac]

guess I'll try cheat for a while

[vivid vessel]

its not easy but

[rotund zodiac]

been using elus for so long

[astral glen]

I thought most anyone used cheat death with that build oo

[vivid vessel]

elus is so op

but

idk

killing spree without cheat

is infinite dps loss

i think you kinda have to try and make work no elus

for me it has been working in most keys

rookery from 16 up i cant play cheat anymore cause of the mobs before 2nd boss

and workshop 17 + is starting to get hard cause of the dogs before 2nd boss

[remote pecan]

rather than moving out of mechanics and hoping you dont KS into them, stand in the mechanics and use KS to dodge them

[vivid vessel]

but i think its doable with good healer and dwarf/cloak

[rotund zodiac]

imma try cheat on 14 priory, wish me luck

[astral glen]

For now I'm barely managing 10, so I'll stick to Cheat, but huh...

[astral glen]

LOL I mean-- it's not bad logic :p

[remote pecan]

i use KS all the time to dodge targetted charges and ground aoes

[rotund zodiac]

[novel socket]

Ks with elusiveness is unlimited dps gain

Unlimited dr gain too

[vivid vessel]

ks without cheat is too hard man

its already too hard

i cant

[rotund zodiac]

I mean, 20% DR from evasion is nice

[novel socket]

I can't play with cheat death

Elusiveness too addictive

[astral glen]

Ngl on some non-dodgeable AoEs in raid, the extra 20% from Feint+Elu sounds pretty tasty.oo

[novel socket]

I need to min max the shit out of it

:pedro:

[vivid vessel]

aoes?

i mean we dont need shit for aoe lol

also feint elus doesnt work on aoe

it would only be evasion

[astral glen]

Ah dammit

[vivid vessel]

you get 40%

from feint

thats it

[novel socket]

Ye

[vivid vessel]

which is way too good already so

doesnt matter

[novel socket]

Elusi is for st dr

[vivid vessel]

elus is super good but its mostly for st damage that you need it

[novel socket]

Most dmg in raids is aoe

[vivid vessel]

the 2 examples i was talking above are dots for example

dots and st damage

[rotund zodiac]

normal feint can't DR dots right?

[novel socket]

Normal feint is aoe only

[desert tendon]

https://x.com/jordanjots1/status/1913431187550335035

jordan 📊🩵 (@lofibanshee) on X

Trying to visualize this Meta/FOTM talk that's ruining all levels of play and honestly, delete Ret the well known Meta DPS in high keys and all our problems will be solved.

Anyways, here's a meme-y graph that I quickly put together that shows DPS Characters That Have Done 10-14s

X · Apr 19, 2025, 3:15 AM

"delete ret"

real and fact of the day

[vivid vessel]

real ennemy is mage tho

look at this shit

they cant keep getting away with it right

[loud wing]

check out this clown

[hidden bay]

bro this tier

has to be

the worst to hc pug

in like forever

[pearl girder]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[haughty wigeon]

pugs hard stuck of rik

RIKRIKRIKR REVERB

[hidden bay]

rik?

rik was easy

sprocket onwards is mission impossible

[haughty wigeon]

i just wanted to say the line :(

[hidden bay]

i cant get a log run on my alts

[haughty wigeon]

but ya pugs keep on hitting bombshells for some reason

[hidden bay]

dps is

legit s1 numbers

[haughty wigeon]

and unless i rat a guild run with my vdh, i dont think ill be doing this raid on her

[haughty wigeon]

you never know true pain until you have 10+ stacks of tenitus cause your cotank cant do more than 400k

[rotund zodiac]

nerf ret

[novel socket]

They will

Because they are the golden child

[jolly geyser]

mage gotta be real good,jaina is involved and people know her

[rotund zodiac]

mage has blizzard spell

no wonder

[jolly geyser]

[astral glen]

It's so weird to me how exigent people are also

Like literally my guildies took me on a 13 on my second evening back, I had green gear and we timed it

And they're not even "hardcore", we're just an ok guild

If a group of "ok"-level people can time those with a dead weight with green gear and 0 knowledge of mechanics, I can't imagine how someone could ask for 50k and be taken seriously lol

[loud wing]

fortunately those people get reality checked real quick

[desert tendon]

meanwhile 16 resi are 15k a try

[jovial socket]

what are bis trinkets for us

[median herald]

Raiding or mythic

[reef forge]

does anyone know if i can stop nameplates appearing over my WAs?

[vivid vessel]

strata

[reef forge]

is that a addon?

[vivid vessel]

strata is what refers to the level of the frame

or anything in wow

the layer

[reef forge]

copied yours thank you

[vivid vessel]

similarly if that doesnt help cause your weak auras are also too low

you can do the same thing to weak auras

pull them up if needed

background is lowest

tooltip will apear above everything

well like tooltips do

[reef forge]

what does this mean lol

[astral glen]

That... is an amazing tip O.O I had no idea

[reef forge]

how have they got 0

[astral glen]

Thanks ^^

[vivid vessel]

idk bug

just select something

[reef forge]

i picked inherited

[rotund zodiac]

ok zac, I admit cheat is good

saved my life 3 times

[vivid vessel]

inherited means it inherit

from the parent

which

isnt neccesseraly clear

what it will end up being as

if its anchored to the screen for example

i have no idea what that strata will be

[vivid vessel]

ks and cheat

goodge

[reef forge]

will see how it goes, thanks for the help

[astral glen]

I'm gonna embrace the KS & Cheat lifestyle, see how that goes 🥲

(saved me once already in a delve >.>)

[jovial socket]

m+

[split lintel]

does fatebound have anything i have to actively do or is it a passive hero tree? only played trickster so far

[reef forge]

passive but if you're playing m+ you might want to track lucky coin because losing it is pretty bad

[split lintel]

ty

[cobalt mist]

making a weakaura that plays breaking the law by judas priest as long as adrenaline is up

and payphone by maroon 5 whenever its not

[gaunt phoenix]

It changes vanish rules a bit

trickster you hold vanish if killing spree is under 20s cooldown or so

fatebound you hold vanish until ruthless precision or supercharger becomes active

[fossil charm]

HI guys , any good weakaura to suggest?

[reef forge]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[fossil charm]

ty

[loud wing]

wlogs site not working for anyone else?

[grim spear]

it works for me

[heavy shadow]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hasty warren]

yo pirates

[loud wing]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB as you enter dungeon to get Supercharger.
• ADR before key insert for the Loaded Dice buff and cp.
• DO NOT rtb again inside the bubble as you will lose the supercharger stacks, simillarly do not adr inside the bubble or you will lose the cps
• After the bubble drops RTB again (now at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF then Stealth
• Open on pack with ADR (in range with target, this will pull) into BtE.

[heavy shadow]

Guys some advice, was looking at my run vs a sim, for sure it's clear I am not getting my BtE and KS timings right (especially KS)

I'm struggling to fit it all together, i.e. KS being up in middle of BtE window, and so on. Is there any tips for a kind of prio of what to do first written down somewhere?

[gaunt phoenix]

In details ks is split between main hand and offhand hits

[heavy shadow]

ah really

[gaunt phoenix]

assuming you are not at risk of losing adrenaline rush, ks has higher priority than using vanish and also you hold vanish if ks cooldown is under ~20s or so

but sometimes ks just comes off cd during stealth and you cant use it, it's not impossible to avoid entirely

[heavy shadow]

Is it these two?

[gaunt phoenix]

Yes the offhand part is half of the mainhand

[heavy shadow]

Ah okay, so looking at a sim it's more near the 5.6% ish

I mean can be better

But it's the BtE which is the worse bit

It feels like this is very tough to get right.

[gaunt phoenix]

In raidbots the damage from bte and the resulting crackshot is bundled into bte

[heavy shadow]

I see paladins pressing 2 buttons and double my dps

[gaunt phoenix]

so bte wont be that much in details

well sure outlaw has considerable effort and apm to its rotation

only to reach 'good enough' performance

[heavy shadow]

I don't see crackshot as an element in my list though

USually I like to play as outlaw and quite stubborn about it, I'm thinking I may just not manage to get 3k rating with it though. Seems like need to really git gud to compare to the other DPS out there

Which likely require less skill to pump out the dmg on big packs etc

Speaking of big pulls, outlaw can't really compete I guess...

[digital tusk]

I outlawed the thing 👍

[gaunt phoenix]

the crackshot is just dispatch

bte casts its own dispatch but its the same spell id as regular dispatch

[round dragon]

I just went in there this morning to see how bad it is lol. Got any tips?

[digital tusk]

Make sure you're always aware of where Brann is chucking potions cuz the guys melee hits are pretty brutal, other then that its all about the bombs and keeping adds under control. The bombs are fickle as hell and like to sail off in random directions sometimes 😭

Once I reallized I had him at like 15% I said yolo screw adds, need to dps him

[round dragon]

Was your bran a healer or tank? Yeah, the bombs thing I saw a guy say if you take him to the edge the adds will spawn in the same spot, I just need to test that out.

[ebon reef]

!macro

[ornate heath]

Macroing gs is relatively "ok", be aware that it wont ever be entirely optimal: target swapping in m+ or putting it on a dying target for example. You can macro it to all your abilities.

[ebon reef]

do you guys macro your battle pot to adr/rtb?

i keep forgetting to use it

[vivid vessel]

absolutely not

[digital tusk]

Healer, doubt I could have done it without Branns heals, crimson vial just isnt enough

[vivid vessel]

you legit fire adr on cd whenever

woudl be bad to bind pot on it

and just press a random adr at end of pack you know

[sullen wyvern]

yeah wtf

I macro it to my dispatch

[round dragon]

I have it macro'ed to KS and subterfuge's BtE and I just don't use them when mobs are about to die. Been working out okay

and subterfuge's SS too

[vivid vessel]

sounds cooked

you could just bind pot you know

[covert kestrel]

Law has like no buttons tbh, should be able to fit it

[round dragon]

I mean, I've been kinda getting back into the swing of things since it's been a while to make things easy. I have M+ and a "M+ Lazy" talents saved so eventually I'll just separate it. When I first started outlaw, I had energy problems and I finally got it down to 2-3 times where I run out in a dungeon and just bought Thistle tea off the AH and popped it whenever that happened

back then it turned out that it was just me dispatching at 5 CPs instead of 6. When I fixed it, the energy issue went away

gotta do all you can to get ahead of that learning curve lol

[sullen wyvern]

anyone knows if this applies with CdG

[gaunt phoenix]

it does

[sullen wyvern]

ty

[vivid vessel]

np

[desert tendon]

yw

[runic bough]

Yo guys its me Ryukage

I made a build last night doesnt need the garbage tier set.

I am out of retirement now

playing outlaw agains

also big big boom, no play killingspree

major big

We go boom boom bang bang again, we are no go KSSKSSSKSSSS DEAD from killingspree.

this is the aoe spec

[frail veldt]

so youre just playing last seasons build?

[vivid vessel]

Ryukage -Ex Outlaw

[runic bough]

New AOE spec no tier set

CQQAA0tw2gAD7pPTLoW5IGZDeAAMwAzMzwMzwMmZMGzMjZmplZMLzAAAAAAgtlxMjHYmZswMLz2AAAAwMDwAbwMGNmNAbTYxMA

Single target is regular HO single target build

with Ace and GS

and heavyhitter

[glass mortar]

so yea just last season fatebound build

[runic bough]

for single target yes

aoe is my spec

GSW go bang bang bigger bang bang

[glass mortar]

it doesnt but if its having fun for u

[runic bough]

lol

[glass mortar]

unfortunate that that node hasnt been touched in 2 expacs

very left behind

[runic bough]

sim it for yourself

[glass mortar]

i saw the sims

[vivid vessel]

ryuk does that every season no cap

[glass mortar]

its just slightly worse then a real aoe build

[vivid vessel]

was playing kir before it was meta aswell

[glass mortar]

idk why u call it a new build

[runic bough]

[vivid vessel]

and when it was meta

he stoped playing it

winner mentality

wont follow the meta

very based

[runic bough]

HO with ks was new meta

I make build with no ks

[glass mortar]

HO with KS is the current build yes

but there is several no KS builds

[runic bough]

yeah yeah

[glass mortar]

they arent meta because they are at minimum 17% behind

not because they dont exist

[runic bough]

mine is only 1.3% behind ks build

[glass mortar]

not in aoe

[runic bough]

in aoe

dungeon slicer bro

[glass mortar]

it definitly isnt

[runic bough]

GSW would like to have a word with you

[glass mortar]

sorry let me be more specific, maybe it is for u because u dont have new tier yet and new tier is basically required to play the trickster builds

last season stuff is all much closer

and ur still in last season gear

dont think any trickster stuff is recommended for s1 tier set right now

[vivid vessel]

why do you not have tier tho

its legit impossible not to have it

dont we have 4 thingies by now

[runic bough]

i havnt played outlaw since s1

[glass mortar]

well he was just setting up his outlaw for the first time since s1 last night i think

but yea u should be able to get 4set in like a day or two

we have 5 cata charges now so

u can just turn any piece upgradable to 658 into it

[runic bough]

I got 7 sparks also

last night

3 crafted gears incoming

[glass mortar]

but yea it is a very large power spike equipping new tier and being able to change to trickster builds

[runic bough]

You wont see me playing ks builds

[glass mortar]

before u do that, the gap between the two builds is closer

[runic bough]

WE WILL BREAK THE META

[glass mortar]

playing outlaw is breaking the meta

playing an outlaw build that does waaaay less damage is not exactly breaking the meta

[runic bough]

BLIZZARD WILL NOT WIN THIS TROLL SPEC KS TRICKSTER

[glass mortar]

but we arent meta so just play whatevers fun

just dont ever try a kspree build ok

[runic bough]

i said that

[glass mortar]

the difference is mathematically so large you will notice immediatly how much more aoe u do

but until u try it

u wont know

so stay pure

🫡

[runic bough]

GSW is here now

everything gon b okay weran

[glass mortar]

gsw is meaningless

any fatebound or trickster build can drop a talent to take it for a dps loss

[runic bough]

calm yourself

[glass mortar]

it doesnt change anything about trickster vs fatebound

[runic bough]

we gonna get thru this weran

[glass mortar]

just sayin, u can fit it in any build if u really want it

[raven socket]

LF outlaw God player that can teach me to not suck with my favourite spec in the game

[glass mortar]

idk why u feel like it helps non kspree builds

its just always a worse choice then something else

[runic bough]

because I dont care for the tier set or ks

[glass mortar]

sure

[runic bough]

so I want to try something else

[glass mortar]

but u can play the fatebound new season builds with gsw if u want

[runic bough]

I want to stack heavy vers and crit all slot except 2 tier gears

Even outlaw tier pieces are garbage stats

really lame

[glass mortar]

thats gunna be rough

are u planning on never playing supercharger

[runic bough]

i want to test it when i have some haste gears

with GSW

[glass mortar]

crit is not a terribly good stat right now with this tier set

RP uptime too high

[runic bough]

have u been listening

I dont care about the garbage tier set

[glass mortar]

ok but ur gunna put the new set on eventually

what does that mean

ur gunna ignore it for how it impacts ur stats?

so ur just gunna do less damage for no reason

[runic bough]

blizzard slap outlaw with everything bad this season

very troll

[glass mortar]

mhm

but its the only way to power up ur character

[runic bough]

ill test some stuffs

when i get more gear

[wintry gate]

its just really that KS needs a change

otherwise its okay

i've done a bunch of keys as fatebound and while you do notice you'll be doing significantly less in aoe, if you're just doing vault keys its pretty relaxing

my main gripe on all three specs is if your group doesn't pull around you and most don't

and you can't restealth, you might as well just play a diff class

[vivid vessel]

well sub doesnt care about restealth

and outlaw doesnt really either

so

idk

[wintry gate]

i stopped playing first dance for it

[vivid vessel]

assa with bleed builds maybe

[wintry gate]

ass is the worst

i have to beg my tank to remember to not chain pull when the mob is at fucking 10% hp

[honest sparrow]

did they fix that bte doesnt restet when you stealth with night elve?

[cinder relic]

Meld isn't stealth

[vivid vessel]

its not really a bug

ye

you just gottta be able to stealth after meld

which doesnt always work

[cinder relic]

It's not a bug, if it did work, nelf would be the best race by an insane margin

[honest sparrow]

Yes i know and sometimes last week my bte didnt get reseted but i still got subterfuge but today it worked like a charm maybe im just getting dumb from dying to much in keys

[frail veldt]

that is not true lol

ill sim it for you

[frail veldt]

yeah its weirdly unreliable this season

but they did fix the bug so you can BtE after melding->stealthing now

without it bugging bte cd

@runic bough

20% behind btw

from SC HO Trickster with PC in dslice

[vivid vessel]

well that was prolly linked to the restealth during subt bug

so

[frail veldt]

yeah but when they first fixed that I still had the bug

cuz that was the first hing I testeed

but somewhere since then and now its been fixed fixed

[raven socket]

I definitely did not think that shadowmeld would put you into stealth directly,nono 👀

[vivid vessel]

hm

the restealth bug was this tier

we talking about the same thing right

[frail veldt]

I know

yes

[vivid vessel]

ok

[frail veldt]

the stealthing over subterfuge fix

[vivid vessel]

ye

[frail veldt]

but its fixed now so thats nice

but tbh

we have too many vanishes it feels like

its almost hard to fit in a meld

only place id want it is ST

but you cant do that

cuz bosses

[pliant wind]

is there an WA to remember tricks?

im an idiot and sometimes i forget it

[raven socket]

Btw is the trick bug not lasting 1 hour fixed ?

[runic bough]

what gear are you wearing

stats

[vivid vessel]

?

ryuk

do you really think

[runic bough]

everything gonna be okay

[haughty wigeon]

https://imgur.com/mftGPmI

[runic bough]

xD

[vivid vessel]

do you really think your random fatebound gsw is only 1 % behind

in aoe

you trully are cooked ryuk

[latent oak]

ryu has homebrewed apl to support his forbidden builds

[runic bough]

with no tier it said yes

[vivid vessel]

no

no ryuk

[frail veldt]

gona need to provide proof

[vivid vessel]

bro prolly simming 0% haste kir builds or smth

[frail veldt]

hes simming last season essentially

so maybe its close like 5ish percent since he might be still comparing to Loaded dice build?

but our build is designed for hte tier set

[vivid vessel]

except trickster got buffed to infinity since last season

[frail veldt]

so comparing it without tier

is like comparing to KiR at 9% haste

[vivid vessel]

and trickster was already ahead in aoe last season

[frail veldt]

and saying its ahead of KiR

it wasnt ahead in dslice though

[raven socket]

!trick

[vivid vessel]

you can remove tier set rn it doesnt change anything

[vivid vessel]

barely

but you remember they buffed it

right

like a lot

lol

[frail veldt]

yeah I do

[vivid vessel]

like tier set doesnt matter

[haughty wigeon]

buff killing spree

should make it worth the risk

100% more damage

100% more stagger to offset it

[vivid vessel]

what blud yapping about

[haughty wigeon]

they gotta buff killingspree, since they clearly intend to make us keep this DOGSH-fun ability

[wary wind]

Has that gsw talent ever been good? I been playing outlaw only since s3 of df

[haughty wigeon]

joking aside i love killing spree but holy shit they gotta make it not kill you

[haughty wigeon]

there was a weird time in shadowlands

were gsw was a viable lego option

[wary wind]

Tbh it kinda just seems like a really boring / underwhelming choice like why does it exist

[vivid vessel]

it was also boring in sl

never really had any gameplay

some people liked it cause it made ps do big damage i guess

[magic shuttle]

You could stack gsw with damage modifiers in torghast

And have the biggest crits in the world

[wary wind]

Would be maybe cool if it modified ps in some way like maybe made the pistol shot into buck shot or something that did aoe damage

[haughty wigeon]

it was fun to see big numbies on screen

hence why i liked old aces making bte do big numbies in bfa

[vivid vessel]

ye

i understand

[glass mortar]

its dissapointing

[vivid vessel]

i dont play with numbers tho

[glass mortar]

a capstone for the gunplay of the tree

shouldnt just be passive damage

it could use some love

[vivid vessel]

and i dont really vibe with stuffs that are just damage

[haughty wigeon]

numbies is screen is goated

[glass mortar]

fth is 10X the capstone this thingy is

[vivid vessel]

cause it doesnt do anything to me

[haughty wigeon]

but yes gsw as a capstone

[glass mortar]

btw zac how do u feel about the idea

[haughty wigeon]

is a disappointment

heck

[vivid vessel]

i like gameplay

[glass mortar]

i was kinda vibing with it last night

[haughty wigeon]

design wise, fth should have been the capstone

[glass mortar]

i feel like outlaw would just play better if it was redesigned around 6cp max and 1 fth point max

[haughty wigeon]

it changes ps fundamentally and the rotation as well

so it does exactly what a capstone should do

[vivid vessel]

I mean i have been saying this forever

outlaw was less rng when it was lower cp max

cause the lows are less lows

and idk it flows better when you finish often

which we still do rn

but only when we proc

[glass mortar]

being able to store up 3 "charges" of PS

also kinda a banger

[vivid vessel]

yep

[haughty wigeon]

return to monke

blunderbussy

go full gamble

im crashing out rn

why is this spec

like this rn

[glass mortar]

shh

we spend all last night crashing out

time to chill on a saturday

[vivid vessel]

ye i will never understand why you keep yapping about blunderbuss

when it was the most boring iteration of outlaw we have had all of sl first off

and secondly we have blunderbuss

in game

rn

[haughty wigeon]

thats not blunderbussy >:(

thats fth :)

[waxen scarab]

is kir now stronger than ho in m+?

[vivid vessel]

which is the same shit

[haughty wigeon]

not rng enough

more

[sullen wyvern]

Isnt FTH basically the same as blundebuss?

[gaunt phoenix]

yes but bb was a lower chance

a proc from a proc

[sullen wyvern]

Fth is even better

Now hear me out

Make GSW buff every shot from FTH

[haughty wigeon]

[gaunt phoenix]

no it's expected to be a bit worse

[haughty wigeon]

make gsw a execute

[gaunt phoenix]

but if you can play it, it is more consistent

some ppl prefer it

[sullen wyvern]

I went back to KiR

KiR is fun

HO not so much

[proven ocean]

@waxen scarab hi

is kir now stronger than ho in m+?

@waxen scarab is deft vaible now

[gaunt phoenix]

did you mean to ping zac or

[proven ocean]

nah im just memeing with my guildie

[haughty wigeon]

your guildie is broly?

[proven ocean]

what does broly mean

[gaunt phoenix]

his pfp

[proven ocean]

whats broly

[runic bough]

Zeross doesnt watch DBZ

[gaunt phoenix]

dbz

[proven ocean]

is it the super sain guy

[runic bough]

thats ban worthy

[proven ocean]

yea thats him

[waxen scarab]

ارحب

[proven ocean]

https://tenor.com/view/top-gun-top-gun-maverick-salute-tom-cruise-military-gif-26899454

[vivid bluff]

yo i still can finish at 5cp in subterfuge windows? better to send finisher than ss or

[gaunt phoenix]

you should finish at 5 in stealth

[vivid bluff]

oki

and this point "If Coup de Grace is ready, and you're at low CP and would otherwise press :ss: Sinister Strike, send Coup early at low CP as opposed to using SS. " i still can build up with ps proc yes just dont do it with ss

[gaunt phoenix]

yep

[vague cape]

just to confirm we are rerolling while in stealth

right

i've not been griefing have I

[gaunt phoenix]

generally yeah

[vague cape]

thank god

[gaunt phoenix]

but if its like the last global then you dont have to

[pliant wind]

after all u gonna chain probably some bte

so better reroll before

[vague cape]

if its early it feels good to reroll since ur next few btes chain

I personally love rerolling right after vanish since you've not started subterfuge

might be bad though since you could lose some autos

[gaunt phoenix]

its fine

[vague cape]

how much you guys managing on st bosses btw

in keys

I can't really compare it to my alts or sin either

[pliant wind]

I like more CTO than ghostly strike

[vague cape]

both are fine tbh, im used to ghostly from df

[pliant wind]

yep but when u need to interrupt at another mob u need to trackback and thats disgusting

haha

[gaunt phoenix]

if you play without precise cuts you should average like 2.1m on st

[vague cape]

trick is to mainly focus the big, high hp mob so it's easier to retarget it

[vague cape]

with precise, without ghostly

a better question is how much ghostly sways it

[gaunt phoenix]

ghostly is like 11% more st

[vague cape]

ok pretty large tbh

I've managed 2m

but sometimes dip to like 1.8-9

gear is fairly scuffed though https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/k6tK9DvxsCQ5YXudTNVJC4

[gaunt phoenix]

ya that's sounds expected

[vague cape]

Im starting to think nothing matches hunter

doing like 2.2-2.4

[gaunt phoenix]

also lowkey depends on raidbuffs

battle shout and monk are 5% dps each

[gaunt phoenix]

with ghostly and some luck outlaw can do that

oof your gear is kinda wack sure

[vague cape]

ye I just slapped some stuff on

but its hard to find haste

[gaunt phoenix]

missing like 11000 vers 😄

[vague cape]

🙂

might try going full OL main for farm tbh

even if it does less damage it's a lot more engaging than sin / sub

[cinder summit]

is outlaw kind of useless , i always feel like in the big pulls that matter my dmg is goofy and especially if its a first pull with bl like in 14+ keys

[vague cape]

nah, outlaw is consistently solid tbh

[cinder summit]

im just moving to assa

[vague cape]

its just tank damage on mass pulls

[cinder summit]

to not wipe on important puls

[vague cape]

thats all

[cinder summit]

hmm

[vague cape]

your tank should just avoid pulls over 10 if they can

if they have OL

or play those around uncapped dps cds

[gaunt phoenix]

in high keys outlaw just really brings boss dmg over sin

[cinder summit]

thats not possible

[vague cape]

and ur just there to kick / hit prio

[cinder summit]

like in cinderbrew i already gave up on outlaw

[frail veldt]

Yeah if you play around the target cap theyre honestly fine up to a point cuz most keys are easily timeable without doing big pulls

people will pull like its a 19 in a +12 and then wipe to lack of kicks and blame outlaw aoe

like

just braindead tbh

but most people are far too lazy to adjust their routing/timings based on their group comp

[cinder summit]

i try to ask for route before key

but its always big pulls

[gaunt phoenix]

or just uncap outlaw cause it doesnt matter until it does and there isnt a real justification for it anymore

[vague cape]

honestly if they made bf reduced beyond 3 even

and uncapped it

would be better

than the state of it now

precise cuts already kinda making it function somewhat like that

[runic bough]

outlaw is already nerfed as it is

we talk about this everyday

Should just pin it for blizzard to see

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel did u try simming raw bte vs sending vanish after coup especially with 2 charges of vanish up? a raw bte doesnt sound too powerful

ur kinda ticking off on flawless form crackshots

atleast for sub its important to send sectech if coup is up over coup even if fazed is up to make sure i get another sectech in my shadowblades+flawless up with cb

could be different for outlaw but could be a minor gain u could look for

[analog fog]

yes assa is better in every key unfortunately

outlaw just more tanky so ur healer can do more healer dps

[runic bough]

new haste ring guys

I might be able to try HO SC Fatebount

[vivid vessel]

thats all

bro said thats all

also big pack or not doesnt matter

sin just does infinitly more damage

anyway you pull

[stuck sparrow]

champ ring

[vague cape]

if u pull 1 by 1

https://tenor.com/view/clint-eastwood-gunslinger-six-shooter-gun-flip-flip-gun-into-holster-gif-4148730080769454978

[wintry gate]

yo zac, do you know if sudden demise calculates crit into the 150% bleed thing?

[vivid vessel]

?

[vague cape]

no it doesn't

[wintry gate]

rip

[vivid vessel]

why you asking me that

[vague cape]

xd

[wintry gate]

cus sin channel is trash

[vivid vessel]

this is so random

[vague cape]

[wintry gate]

and u were talking about sin

and i just played sin

hence asking

[vivid vessel]

i dont even know what sudden demise is

[wintry gate]

had it proc at 25m just now

[vivid vessel]

nice try tho

[stuck sparrow]

baby number

Imagine not hitting 40m

[lime lake]

[mild escarp]

Anyone know of a macro for tricks of the trade that works? I'm using the tank misfirect found on wowhead with the weakaura and it doesn't work

[stuck sparrow]

it needs the weakaura

[mild escarp]

I have the weakaura

[stuck sparrow]

just tricks the other dps

You can also just add tank name to macros

[mild escarp]

Lol I've thought of it if only it worked, the only way I've gotten it to work is with no macro and clicking the raid frame

I'll try adding tanks name, although even /cast (@mouseover) didn't work

[latent oak]

has to be square brackets

[]

[mild escarp]

Fuck it does too, blonde moment

Thanks I'll give it a go

[latent oak]

!tricks

[ornate heath]

Smart tricks WA on tank, this require the following macro:

/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 1
/click SmartMisdirect LeftButton 0

[latent oak]

this should be the thing u were looking for anyways

[latent oak]

just checked it out to see how many targets we would need to beat current bf for shits and giggles

and u'd need 18 targets for it to be a gain xd

[vague cape]

xd

remember they'd have to rework the talents ur judging current bf with

it would be 5t bf vs softcapped 3t

unfair to compare 5t with extra talents

[latent oak]

true i was comparing with the increase to 7t cap

[runic bough]

[stuck sparrow]

normal

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel i knew sin is same as outlaw in workshop

i think

sin abit better tho

cuz of lust

[vivid vessel]

no its not

its litteraly a 16

wherre you died twice

[proven ocean]

true

[vivid vessel]

in a high keys you get real cds

[proven ocean]

ye true

[vivid vessel]

and im getting gapped

[proven ocean]

but high keys u play sub anyway

sub is rly good here

[vivid vessel]

ye prolly

[proven ocean]

does udk dps 1st pull

rly op

[vivid vessel]

i mean workshop

is unplayable as outalw also

you know that pull on third boss

[proven ocean]

its bad for sin aswell

[vivid vessel]

as outlaw ?

you cant play it

[proven ocean]

lol

ye

[vivid vessel]

i mean for ks

[proven ocean]

btw

[vivid vessel]

its way too hard

[proven ocean]

with sub and arms

[wintry gate]

you don't like to get grinded?

[proven ocean]

u know 3rd boss add?

[vivid vessel]

every boss is impossible to press ks on

[proven ocean]

he gets

1 shot

LOL

like

[vivid vessel]

nice

[proven ocean]

from full hp

to 0

in 1 sec

or less

xddd

i combined dance+sectech

on all adds

so i basically never lose st dps

that way

while cleaving add 1 shot

but ye

i agree sin is better

[vivid vessel]

i think i have a tech for workshop third boss actually

i need to confirm it

[proven ocean]

sub

[vivid vessel]

no but

[proven ocean]

is a good spec

[vivid vessel]

i feel like

[proven ocean]

on workshop

[vivid vessel]

if you dont move

when you land from ks

the saws

they get trough you

no damage

[proven ocean]

thats definitely fake

[vivid vessel]

idk why

it happens to me so often ross

[proven ocean]

feel like thats just rng

idk

[vivid vessel]

i kid you not

let me show you

[proven ocean]

btw

zac

did u

read the cook i told u

for outlaw

?

[vivid vessel]

i dont really read when you type anymore zeross

im past that

[proven ocean]

here

???????????????????????????????

[vivid vessel]

but ye

[proven ocean]

ur wasting a crackshot bte

with full flawless form

[vivid vessel]

you never have time to send raw bte

unless rare case

i feel like its worth when these rare cases happen tho

aka rp up and ks big cd left

[proven ocean]

where u need AR cdr?

or what

[vivid vessel]

no just when rp and up and ks is super long anyway

[runic bough]

i just started playing outlaw again last night

[proven ocean]

yea i can see that being a thing

RP is usually up or

wouldnt be worth playing around it

if its high uptime

or

[stuck sparrow]

what happened to dh

[vivid vessel]

well this situation doesnt happen often tbf

you often dont have time to do that

cause of ks cd

[proven ocean]

ngl

[runic bough]

I made a non tier build to play

[proven ocean]

hero talents ruined outlaw

we knew that since tww alpha

[vivid vessel]

they did lol

[proven ocean]

and

[vivid vessel]

[proven ocean]

they still

never thought

of fixing it

@vivid vessel btw

i have 8% avoidance

[royal hollow]

is this what happens when forum andys start using yt

[proven ocean]

soon 10%

[stuck sparrow]

what

ryu are you intentionally trying to be a hipster

with any spec you play

genuine question

[vivid vessel]

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxFSnrS4msZWD_AiewwdISKckdXmR1ZDIw?si=aHH2Sk-xoArBKSuA loook ross

you stop movbing

they dont see you !

you are hidden

no cap

[runic bough]

ovc

[stuck sparrow]

what even is a non tier build

dh tier doesnt impact gameplay

[runic bough]

dh is boring

outlaw non tier build bro

since outlaw get garbage hero talents, tier set, tier stats I made a nontier build for fatebound

using regular HO single target build tho

[latent oak]

what do u like about gsw

[stuck sparrow]

The tier stats arent even bad

well shoulders kind of suck

[runic bough]

1mil pistol shots is nice

[vivid vessel]

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxnk7zol3BUviqHXAUB-P7QtiRcfn4pgpw?si=eVGRuMr2g6onEp1Z and here another one @proven ocean

see

i just turn invisible

so op

no moving

they dont see me

im hidden in the dark

[proven ocean]

nah

last boss

is

not

ks

making u immune

cuz

sometimes

u can even be infront of it

and not die

[vivid vessel]

watch the clips

its not even last boss

what you talking abotu

[stuck sparrow]

mfw enhance can regularly hit 3m lava lashes

[proven ocean]

yea

i see

[vivid vessel]

im just saying i swear if you dont move

[proven ocean]

that had to kill you 100%

[vivid vessel]

they dont see you

[runic bough]

all of rogue tier stats are mastery haste wtf do you mean

no outlaw stats ever

[stuck sparrow]

helm is vers haste

shoulders crit mast

[vivid vessel]

maybe im just dodging

idk

[stuck sparrow]

gloves crit haste

[vivid vessel]

maybe its dodgeable

[stuck sparrow]

legs crit mast

[latent oak]

can u normally dodge those sort of things?

[stuck sparrow]

do you check before posting

[runic bough]

we want Vers

[latent oak]

u cant evasion it right

[proven ocean]

whats this

zac

@vivid vessel

ur not even

in KS

and u dont get hit

how

?

[stuck sparrow]

head has vers

[vivid vessel]

no i to.d you

im not moving

theuy cant see me

[stuck sparrow]

you want high haste anyway

[proven ocean]

wdym

[vivid vessel]

no moving

they dont see

blind

[proven ocean]

wait

if u dont move

u dont get hit

[vivid vessel]

they react to sound

[proven ocean]

thats what ur saying

?

[vivid vessel]

its like these guys

in

you know the movie

quiet ?

a quiet place

[proven ocean]

idk if ur trolling or not

i never saw such a thing

before

[vivid vessel]

idk im half trolling

[royal hollow]

a quiet place was good

[proven ocean]

never in wow atleast

[vivid vessel]

its not the first time it happens to me

[proven ocean]

idk what quiet is

but ye

well

can u

reliably do it

i dont think u can

or

cuz

otherwise

[vivid vessel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WR7cc5t7tv8&ab_channel=ParamountPictures

[proven ocean]

casters would know

[latent oak]

it does feel like u dont take damage from them when ksing at least

[proven ocean]

that if u dont move

u dont die

[latent oak]

or less likely to get hit

[runic bough]

1 piece of vers tier gear

[latent oak]

i ks right into them sometimes and take no damage

[vivid vessel]

good movies ross

[royal hollow]

you kinda moved towards it in the first clip though

[runic bough]

wouldnt you call that shit for outlaw, yes

[vivid vessel]

after it was inside me tho

[runic bough]

that why tier gear is poopooo

[vivid vessel]

like when they enter me

im not moving

in these 2 clips

idk

maybe im dodging

you know

[stuck sparrow]

not a single rogue tierpiece is haste mast

you need haste

[proven ocean]

zac

moce ,.pie

nice movie*

[royal hollow]

is dodge still a thing

[proven ocean]

i'll watch i think

[stuck sparrow]

Secondaries matter less than you think

unless its heavymast

[vivid vessel]

ok that trailer isnt that good

movie is good tho

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel

lmao

look

[runic bough]

we want heavy vers

[proven ocean]

nah

wdym

trailer