outlaw

[desert tendon]

me rn

[vapid sundial]

Anyone who has played it and others has said so

[glass mortar]

i play alot of specs

[desert tendon]

very hard

[vivid vessel]

then go play assa

[hybrid crown]

https://tenor.com/view/fart-south-park-gif-10578739

[desert tendon]

[vivid vessel]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[hybrid crown]

thats the biggest benefit to KIR is you can get off on how much harder it is than HO

[glass mortar]

none of them take me the brain power and practice to actively play

[fathom bramble]

you can also just bake all of kir into a WA that turns green

[glass mortar]

took me like 5m to learn WW monk

[fathom bramble]

and probably get better performance than trying to use your brain

[glass mortar]

3 keys to figure out mw

[vivid vessel]

i mean you can do that with everything in the game

idk why this is ever an argument

[fathom bramble]

yeah

[glass mortar]

it also would be wrong

[vivid vessel]

people will say outlaw is a glowy button spec

[desert tendon]

wait

zac

[glass mortar]

good kir players use kir with more flexible rules then the apl

[fathom bramble]

it's why something being excessively complex isn't necessarily hard

[civic zephyr]

!sim

[desert tendon]

is that true

[vivid vessel]

brother i can do the same on assa

[desert tendon]

apparently

[sullen wyvern]

I think feral is the only 'hard' spec and is honestly playing around tiger fury

[civic zephyr]

Awww

[desert tendon]

the 2nd boss of workshop

u cant

hit the boss anymore

[vivid vessel]

yes

its gg

[desert tendon]

you have to be 100% los

LMAO

[vivid vessel]

outlaw does tank damage

[desert tendon]

GG OUTLAW

[vivid vessel]

now

on that boss

[civic zephyr]

Feral got yeeted after Legion and hasn't recovered since imo.

[fathom bramble]

I think it can be an argument when a spell is very complex, but not actually hard to use in execution

[hybrid crown]

aside from vent there isnt any damage so you can vanish it when thats up and if its super not you can cloak and keep dpsing

[fathom bramble]

if that makes sense

[vivid vessel]

you know

[civic zephyr]

Like its never s tier aymore.

[vivid vessel]

outlaw was already hard to play on that bos

[fathom bramble]

most of kir difficulty comes from trying to apply a list of rules to 1 spell while playing the rest of outlaw

[vivid vessel]

swith the spread

you lose uptime

now its litteral int

good luck

[civic zephyr]

Outlaw is so rng it's crazy.

[vivid vessel]

except trickster cnat hold vanish

like fatbeound could

so

good luck with that

rng if it lines up whoohoo

[vague cape]

yo anyone got a rtb wa

[civic zephyr]

I should make a feral and defy the odds.

[vague cape]

need to turn my brain off

[civic zephyr]

XD

[vague cape]

for drunk keys

[vivid vessel]

mo

you legit

roll

till 5 buff

can people stop

asking

for an rtb

[vague cape]

bro my old weak aura

[vivid vessel]

wa

im going crazy man

[vague cape]

used to have customisable tts

[vivid vessel]

this shit is wild

[vague cape]

that said funny shit

when i rolled 5 buff

[vivid vessel]

you guys play wow with brain turned off

or what

[vague cape]

live life with it off

[hidden bay]

Anyone have a wa for rtb kir?

[vivid vessel]

understandable

[vivid vessel]

I mean at least this one is a bit more complex

[vague cape]

found it

ty

[vivid vessel]

idk how people can play ho asking for a rtb weak aura

when you just roll on cd

are you stupid or what

[wintry solar]

Anyone have a WA to track SC stacks?

[fathom bramble]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[desert tendon]

i think

[fathom bramble]

I thought there was a SC one in here

[hidden bay]

For all its faults

[desert tendon]

it s time to play non uhuh outlaw

[fathom bramble]

maybe a pack has it

[desert tendon]

since no uptime anyway

[hidden bay]

I think this tier set is gonna be missed

[vivid vessel]

cant wait for this shit to be gone

and i hope our next tier set

is just

• 1 on buffs

just + 1

no bullshit like the df one

just + 1

actually just make that outlaw

• 1

[fathom bramble]

I like the gameplay a bit of casting RTB on CD for combo points

[hidden bay]

Df s3 gave that

Too soon

[vivid vessel]

no it didnt

[fathom bramble]

but RTB giving such a massive variance in buff quality won't be missed

[vivid vessel]

it was + 1 under certain conditions

and it was weird

and not exactly + 1

[fathom bramble]

wish we had 7 dice instead of 5

[vivid vessel]

i want to baseline roll 2 buffs

and my 2 buffs rolsl are 3s

[hidden bay]

Yeah its - all buffs but one

• new buffs

[quaint heart]

What's the apm requirement to play outlaw well?

[hidden bay]

But anyway in practice its +1

[glass mortar]

i thought I suggested that as a replacement for sleight

just +1 to total buff count rolled

at each %

also just make it so CtO buffs dont get rolled over

[fathom bramble]

80+ spells per minute

[glass mortar]

🤷

why not

would help normalize stuff alot

they can be replaced but otherwise a proc is just 8s of a rtb buff

[fathom bramble]

that's how it worked when it was a tierset

[vivid vessel]

cto?

[fathom bramble]

and I still don't understand why the conduit(now taleent) didn't do that

yeah

in legion when it first existed as a tierset

[vapid sundial]

its like 90 according to sim

[fathom bramble]

if you rolled with CTO buffs up they turned into new buffs at the same duration

instead of getting deleted

[desert tendon]

zac

i think next tier set

for outlaw gonna be

[fathom bramble]

it was just not CTO it was the 2pc or something

4pc maybe

[vivid vessel]

hm

idk what it would change rn

[desert tendon]

extend currents buff by 3s when u press bte

idk why

i feel it that way

[vivid vessel]

i guess it wouldnt really be op

just nicer to play

[fathom bramble]

I assumed it was a bug when we saw the conduit and reported it as such

[vivid vessel]

dont think it would change very much

[fathom bramble]

but it never got fixed so who knows

[vivid vessel]

uneless it works on kir buffs

then you would roll on cd after kir

which

this one might be quite good

[desert tendon]

yes u die on cooldown

(there is a bit more to it in priority)

[vivid vessel]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/killing-spree-fix-concept/2088489 need to get to sleep

so you guys check that before i go

[desert tendon]

what is that zac

tell us about it

[vivid vessel]

also

[fathom bramble]

yeeah that's the main reason I would want it to work like that

[vivid vessel]

did you guys see this one

cracked me up

[fathom bramble]

I'm convinced it's just some weird container bug that they never fixed

or never realized was broken and not a feature

[vivid vessel]

ye prolly

[desert tendon]

LMAO

THIS DUDE

AHAHAHHA

[vivid vessel]

tyou mean cto staying right

or the other way around

honesltty which makes more sense

[fathom bramble]

cto staying is probably the originally intended design from legion

[vivid vessel]

cause for the average players there is no diff between cto and rtb

[fathom bramble]

it got broken when made into a conduit for some reason

[vivid vessel]

there is no way to differenciate them in game

so it makles sense it goes away

for us well

we can make a weak aura to see that better

but if it stayed always

normal joe

cant really understand which will stya or not

[fathom bramble]

I don't think it was that hard to tell at the time to be fair

[vivid vessel]

unless he is attentive

[fathom bramble]

it at the time also didn't really matter which ones were from the tierset or not

unless you have 5 buff from actually rolling you just kept sending it for the right buffs

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel bro

Did u see

The clip

Of

Kujo

?

U dont only have to los, u need to be in full line of sight to not take dmg

LOOOOOL

So u have to suck the box’s dick to dodge the hit

All the way in

[desert tendon]

yea zero

imagine how bad that shit is

especially as outlaw

no way they waited 6 years to fix this los

to ruin all the fun, key timer will be tighter

[proven ocean]

Best way to fix it is mid season LOOOOL

[vivid vessel]

Wdym

[proven ocean]

Like half way

Blizzard brain fried

[desert tendon]

also that s an actual buff to bleed build single target kek

[proven ocean]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/mythic-dungeon-tuning-for-april-18th-kujo-box-now-requires-full-line-of-sight-376425?utm_source=discord-webhook

Look

[desert tendon]

more forced pooling

[proven ocean]

At the

Clip

In this video

Zac

If u didnt see

Its

Cringeto

Los it

Not just los

Its a cringe los

U have to be

Extra mega full more los

Just to los

Like

Its actually tight

Its rly bad

Like they made the fight legit annoying

Its like

The fight gave u acro

And they remove acro

Same logic

But with dodging

Lol

Crazy

[vivid vessel]

Ye well

[hidden bay]

Hey thay kinds pog tho

[proven ocean]

I hate this shit holy fuck man

Its so annoying

Like

Could they have made it more annoying

Than to legit full los

Complete los

Its so bad

Man

Bro

Naaaah

Fuck this game man

[vivid vessel]

Could have made it so you could hit trough boss

[proven ocean]

Im deleting wow

I cba

[vivid vessel]

So it's not cancer ass

[desert tendon]

that s a really cool one for aggro

[proven ocean]

Gg

[desert tendon]

dude

they also made the aura of hiding private apparnelty

idk what that mean

[proven ocean]

They couldve made him take 50% less dmg during flames

[desert tendon]

but i guess u cant track it anymore?

[runic bough]

Zeross just press enter after every word stop grouping some words together

[proven ocean]

But what did they choose?

Full los

[runic bough]

[proven ocean]

Complete cringe edition

[proven ocean]

Track what

[desert tendon]

the nerf on last boss

is wild

12.5% hp

[proven ocean]

Ye

[desert tendon]

lmao

[proven ocean]

I wonder if some dev played with an assa rogue playing bleed build and an arcane that had no cds on pull and thought the boss had too much hp on a +10

[desert tendon]

nah

cant say a dev plays rogue

dude

[late swallow]

[wintry solar]

Imagine

Uhuh gone

You can send crackshots without adr

[dawn talon]

not fucking with that one

[wintry solar]

Okay but it's implied energy regen is buffed

[dawn talon]

well yeah obviously

[wintry solar]

Unless you like this God awful loop

That's done more bad than good

[dawn talon]

i do

but i think if subt were 9s instead of 6

uuh being gone could maybe be fine

would just feel really dogshit lowrolling a 6s subt with no adr

[fathom bramble]

you would still hold vanish for AR since it is more damage

even without uhuh

[dawn talon]

you'd probably end up having 1 dry vanish

just bc of the cdr

[fathom bramble]

no

you would alternate 2 vanish casts then 1

on each AR cast

[dawn talon]

ye

ur right

my brain turned off for a sec

LMFAO

[wintry solar]

I know but still

Hate this loop

[dawn talon]

idk i think 90s cd 10s adr or 2 charge adr

would solve the issue you're talking about

without disrupting the enjoyable part of the gameplay much

[fathom bramble]

2 charge ADR or some other way to help maintain uptime during disruption would be ideal

[dawn talon]

give us that moonkin talent

where you can build up extra cdr for your spells that are already off cooldown

or something

so you can hold and not want to end it all

[fathom bramble]

Restful Adrenaline: The duration of Adrenaline Rush is paused if you have not generated or spent combo points in the last 2.4 seconds.

[wintry solar]

If there's 2 charges then what's the point of the loop?

[fathom bramble]

wdym

the feedback loop is to generate more AR uptimee

[dawn talon]

it just shifts the focus more toward efficiently spending

which is what it sounds like you want if im not mistaken

[fathom bramble]

by having more AR available to us than we need you can maintain the loop while playing well even through disruptive mechanics or activities

if you play like trash and such you'll still lose AR with 2 charges

[wintry solar]

I don't want to loop is what I'm getting at

It's not my thing

[fathom bramble]

as long as AR increases how much AR uptime we can get there will always and has always been some kind of feedback loop

like if your AR gets fucked in previous versions of law you still had a huge loss since your next AR was now so much further away than it should be

this was also true for combat rogue

only way to really remove the feedback loop nature of AR is to make AR not increase the rate that we can get restless as much

or remove restless blades from the game

[wintry solar]

Yes technically with adr being the way it is, it's always been a loop but I'm talking about looping adr with subt

[fathom bramble]

or give us so much extra ADR that the feedback loop isn't a problem for consistency

yeah uhuh is another thing

but anything that makes AR stronger makes the loop more meaningful

uhuh just does that in a weird way

[wintry solar]

Atp I'd rather just take the L with not having uhuh

[desert tendon]

atp same

[wintry solar]

I can't think of any analogy to compare it to but it's like a good song that I listened to a million times and now the first 30 seconds exhaust me

I have to be in the mood to play outlaw now

That was never a thing to me before uhuh

[fathom bramble]

I meean I could go for a no uhuh outlaw I think it would still be fun

[desert tendon]

yea usually

every season i cant wait for my prog and first reclear to be done so i can do outlaw

[fathom bramble]

I just don't think it solves a lot of our problems in a meaningful way

[desert tendon]

but this season

i just dont wanna play outlaw just because of ks

[wintry solar]

Yeah this season has a couple issues for sure lol

[desert tendon]

nostalgia but

bring back sl outlaw

[fathom bramble]

like the AR feedback loop has been a problem since long before uhuh

and 2 charges has always been a good solution

[desert tendon]

or pure S3 df reworked outlaw

[fathom bramble]

it just hasn't happened for some reason

ever

[desert tendon]

fk them hero talents, rogue dont want any of these

(meanwhile mage play all 3 and it s cool, i repeat myself)

since i got an arcane barrage helper this spec became way less chaotic to play

@late swallow watcha think

[sullen wyvern]

I ogt a question... should I send AR even if I am on a healthy position ( ar has 12+ seconds left, at least 1 charge of vanish for like CP generation/optimization>

[wintry solar]

To clarify, my real problem isn't the adr, it's the how the loop is done.

[wintry solar]

Kinda miss arcane

[sullen wyvern]

Ive been sending it on CD basically

[gaunt phoenix]

generally yes for the cps though you can flex it a bit if you want

[fathom bramble]

I'm not sure I fully understand, the loop functions under the same idea of farming as much ADR CDR as we can before ADR falls off

unless you just mean the total available AR uptime beeing very hig

[wintry solar]

The pausing during subterfuge

Uhuh

Know what I mean?

Idk about you but my ace luck has been very bad this expac for some reason. Which may be another issue in terms of the amount of cdr output but I haven't thought about that.

[sullen wyvern]

tyty

[gaunt phoenix]

i doubt your ace luck has been different than others

[wintry solar]

Probably not

But I'm lucky if I get 3 ace procs in a row in a mythic

[fathom bramble]

like just the nature of a CD relying on another or the uptime it brings

[wintry solar]

Thinking about recording 10 keys just to show

[fathom bramble]

like if casting vanish instead gave AR

is that a fix

[glass mortar]

thats the fix ive always wanted

AR should always be up for crackshot

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah i mean that's a ~3.5% chance

[glass mortar]

makes the window way better

but u can lower uptime around it

[wintry solar]

It's been a suggestion tossed around a lot for sure

[glass mortar]

make vanish grant 6s of AR and stealth still pauses AR but not subterfuge

[wintry solar]

That'd be nice

[wintry solar]

Sure but once in a dungeon run?

I'm not saying it only rains on me I'm just saying I'm having a hard time seeing how reacting to ace procs is fun

[gaunt phoenix]

prob cause you're just thinking about it, i dont track or think about ace

[wintry solar]

Which is purely subjective

That's probably it tbh

I'm very competitive in an unhealthy way

[glass mortar]

outlaw its always the case you feel the lows so much more then other specs

so much of our variance is tangible in gameplay

other specs have alot of variance thats just like passive damage like crits or stuff

their rotation doesnt just stop if they get really bad rng. when ur low rolling as outlaw it sticks out so much in ur memory it feels like it happens more often then it really does

[wintry solar]

Idrm the variance, it's just the vessel for this specific variance is what I'm not a fan of you feel me?

[glass mortar]

yea thats what i just said basically

[wintry solar]

Like some don't like the variance that rtb gives but others do

I'm dyslexic so I probably read it wrong

My b

[glass mortar]

even RtB variance u dont really feel like, the biggest variance in RtB is getting crit buff or not

but thats just dps

wont change ur rotation

u do notice when u dont get broadside tho and it feels awful

even tho its better then not having RP xd

but SS procs, ace procs, FF procs even

u feel these things so much

going dry is awful

[wintry solar]

On a completely different subject, I wish they'd delete gsw and replace it with a "big bte" talent to play around with.

[fathom bramble]

yeah, moving the uhuh into making vanish give AR would help a little bit

any amount of more control over our AR is good

[late swallow]

Bro if you’re having fun, I’m legitimately stoked for you no cap on god fr fr

[dawn talon]

this one you're cooking with

i don't see why they can't just give us a big bte set of talents on the right side

[late swallow]

Must be sick having a triple dps spec class with all 3 specs being fun and good

[glass mortar]

its such a big letdown considering its supposed to be the "gunplay" part of the outlaw tree

clearly, it paths right off fth

and fth is just way more of a capstone then it

its such a nothing talent

having a good PS focused talent would be cool

[wintry solar]

I'd like to choose between lots of BTEs or massive bte personally

[dawn talon]

i love fth btw

since we've been dooming all day

to make one positive comment

[wintry solar]

I love fth as well

[glass mortar]

i think FtH would feel better if it was capped at 1 talent point value and we played with 1 less cp

unironically

[dawn talon]

you're like

[wintry solar]

You prolly right tbh

[dawn talon]

the 5/6cp merchant

i feel like you've brought this up a dozen times

HAHAHA

[glass mortar]

being able to store it up to 3 charges

is pretty neat

and feels better for crackshot windows even

[dawn talon]

1fth feels really good when im not

noticeably making a mistake

and knowing that i have actually just fucked myself for the next 30 seconds

HAHAHA

[gaunt phoenix]

1fth feels good with broadside

[glass mortar]

yea i mean kir is tragic if u fall out of the loop

[gaunt phoenix]

without

[glass mortar]

there is so much momentum in kir

i have 5 buff which gives me 5 buff which refreshes my 5 buff

oh downtime

[dawn talon]

idk

ps ps finisher

[glass mortar]

cto save me please

[dawn talon]

feels pretty good

after you hit coup

with no bs

for example

[glass mortar]

idk i feel like if they retuned us around 6 cp max proc rates on things perCP would probably go up so you might finish on 4 in crackshot

[dense bolt]

Hello well met

[fathom bramble]

some of our rng combo point gen just needs to be moved down to SS/ambush

like if SS always gave 2 on the first hit and 1 on the 2nd

[wintry solar]

Real

[dawn talon]

you just cooked

[fathom bramble]

old cook

leftovers

[wintry solar]

I'd like more from PS as well from opp procs. Sometimes it's a desert out there.

I meant more opp procs my b

[fathom bramble]

back when a single opp proc was a measly 2 CP or 3 with broadside it mattered leess

or 1 and 2 with certain talents lol

I think it's fine for PS to be as rare as it is if they just shift some of the CP around to the less rng reliant sources

fan the hammer was a mistake

fan should have just been letting you save PS procs for later

and still only consume/generate 1 at a time

[wintry solar]

Wasnt that the original design from df beta?

[fathom bramble]

it was generate 3 and still spend one at a time

or maybe it was generate 1 and store 6 at some point too

I know it changed a few times before being what it is

[wintry solar]

It's been too long

Yeah

But wouldn't that also make you rely more on ace procs?

[fathom bramble]

in a sense I guess

ideally you keep overall cp the same

[wintry solar]

Those globals in subt are rather precious

[fathom bramble]

and shift it to SS/ambuish casts

[pliant wind]

Its 1 fth viable then? i didn try it for kir

[fathom bramble]

viable for kir

unviable for ho since it effects audacity chance

[wintry solar]

And you drop GS for it

[shy void]

Dear Blizz, please just make Killing spree a different animation that doesn't teleport us into fire.

[sullen wyvern]

I just came up with the conclusion that if my fav spec is deadge might as well enjoy it the most, never going back to HO

[rotund zodiac]

Workshop dog boss nerf also nerf us outlaw

can’t hit the boss for CDR during aoe flame now

[wintry solar]

Mad

[dawn tundra]

Hey, question: Where can I find the Weakauras for Outlaw Rotation? I'm so lost.

[wary wind]

is this a good overall +13 flood

[sullen wyvern]

it is pretty good

not for your ret and firem age though

[hybrid crown]

if you posted to WCL it would probably be in the pink range looking at the top +13 parses

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/43?boss=12773&class=Rogue&spec=Outlaw&bracket=13&metric=dps

I know people say parses don't matter but IDK I like lookin' at them

for keys

[tired wolf]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB as you enter dungeon to get Supercharger.
• ADR before key insert for the Loaded Dice buff and cp.
• DO NOT rtb again inside the bubble as you will lose the supercharger stacks, simillarly do not adr inside the bubble or you will lose the cps
• After the bubble drops RTB again (now at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF then Stealth
• Open on pack with ADR (in range with target, this will pull) into BtE.

[delicate seal]

keep in mind details tracks differently from wcl

you have to check that in wcl to compare it to details

[runic bough]

you know what

I think im gonna break the meta

I really miss outlaw so maybe ill try a HO Fatebound GSW PC

just to change it up

and just be happy im outlaw

ill have to turn my dmg meter off though

[hybrid crown]

Yeah if I didn't know that I'd say it was rank 1. Wish they would be consistent somehow but the way wcl does it makes sense I guess

Honestly for farm 10s I just do fatebound HO and I'm still breaking 3m most overalls and keeping up with the pugs

For keys where I don't want the frustration of dying to ks

[sullen wyvern]

https://tenor.com/view/ew-brotha-eww-meme-eww-eww-gif-gif-1452572770363109714

[frail veldt]

how are you goan take PC and GSW

[gaunt phoenix]

Idk if outlaw does enough dmg to be playing wack ass builds

[frail veldt]

youd haev to drop cto

I think with that build youre looking at probably 20-30% less dps than the top builds

[runic bough]

i said id turn off dps meter

read guuys

[wintry solar]

It does not

I did the same thing and the damage loss is noticeable without the meters

[runic bough]

[wintry solar]

Reminds me of when I accidentally ran this build thinking I had HO talented into

I was wondering where the extra point came from and I figured it out as I was half way through the key and I had almost no PS procs

[runic bough]

ummm

thats standard build

lol

minus ambush at bottom

[wintry solar]

Well

Idk if you know this

[runic bough]

and killingspree

[wintry solar]

But that ambush at the bottom is rather important

[runic bough]

yeah but killingspree is the doomer still

xd

[wintry solar]

I'd rather have KS

It felt so bad

[runic bough]

no

take that back

[wintry solar]

The bottom talents are locked in for me atm so idk how I talented out of HO

No!

[runic bough]

ks is the worst

[wintry solar]

Run that build and you'd do the same

[runic bough]

yes

[wintry solar]

No

Capers are worse

[dawn tundra]

Ok, so which build is the best for Heroic Undermine?

[wintry solar]

I think HO is ahead atm

[pliant wind]

I hate PC

:/

its like a niche from blizzard to get an excuse to dont give us uncap

hey outlaw is for <8 objectives

wowers

[fathom bramble]

PC should be each target above or below 8

[wintry solar]

Yeah

[fathom bramble]

if we are to remain capped

[wintry solar]

I'd like a niche specific to outlaw

[hasty warren]

yop

[gaunt phoenix]

HO Trickster should be the standard

Cause killing spree should be mostly fine on every heroic boss

[pliant wind]

what do you think of killing spree giving full uncap aoe dmg when BF is active?

that would be a little more pretty for KS

[hasty warren]

ks is just a terrible design

[pliant wind]

like blade rush

[hasty warren]

imo it should be entirely remake

[pliant wind]

the animation it is yeah, and block movement

but the dmg is good

[wintry solar]

That animation is the only cool thing outlaw has left lol

Which is a shame

Because by proxy it's gotta go

[pliant wind]

yeah thats true haha

its cool to see, but hateful to use

[hasty warren]

my RL menace me to not use it in raid

[pliant wind]

:o

[hasty warren]

or i'll will not get cr

[pliant wind]

haha

sometimes i only use it with 2 or 3 CPs so i can get buffed

[dawn tundra]

See, I've heard people say it's this or that and I don't get it at ALL. My DPS is awful and I've read everywhere that I need this or that and I just wanna know how to get my DPS up or if I should switch to another spec.

[wintry solar]

Do you have a log?

[dawn tundra]

Log as in a DPS log?

[wintry solar]

Yeah

[pliant wind]

outlaw is one of the most or the most tricky dps class, but is so fun

[hasty warren]

u can link a warcraft log link with the bot so ppl can help u

i think it's !log

btw, is m+ parses reliable ?

I had the discution with guildmates but no one can found if it's realy interesting to look at m+ parses or not

[gaunt phoenix]

well, I can't see what you're doing so there is perhaps not a simple answer on how to improve

unless you have a log of course

!commonerrors

[ornate heath]

Common errors for Outlaw -> see this answer in the FAQ.

[gaunt phoenix]

there is also this, and the faq in general has a lot of good information hopefully

[pliant wind]

if i dont do >90 parse im playing worse than other days and i try to look at what i did wrong comparing with my other runs

[runic bough]

Solo is the best log reviewer and he charges $100 for a look I heard

xD

jk jk dont ban me

[wintry solar]

I'm not

He won't help unless you venmo him $40

[gaunt phoenix]

HO logs are free, KIR logs you cant pay me to read

[hasty warren]

solo helped me years ago on dps issues, he's realy good at this ^^

[wintry solar]

Pshh

I got bullied into being better

Was probably by solo idr

[hasty warren]

solo

[gaunt phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/purify-restful-cat-distinguished-cat-ruocgiff-gif-24035424

[wintry solar]

Solo has a stick that makes people better at outlaw and he beats people with it

If they ask

Usually

[hasty warren]

btw, is it ok to ks with low cp to avoid deadly mecaniscs or should I keep it a little ?

[dawn tundra]

!log

[gaunt phoenix]

you can ks at low cp

should be better than holding it

[hasty warren]

but usually we ks full cp right ?

[gaunt phoenix]

yea

[hasty warren]

there's no other reason to ks low cp

kk ty

[wintry solar]

I think some try to avoid a supercharged KS at times

[dawn tundra]

So uh... Do I just post my Warcraft Logs profile or?

[hasty warren]

supercharge is for bte only ?

[hasty warren]

y u did xd

[wintry solar]

Most use it for everything. But people like to be extra careful

[hasty warren]

yeah I pref value cp usage than damage bonus

maybe it's a mistake

[wintry solar]

I don't pay it any mind personally

[frail veldt]

you can have it for both

[hasty warren]

but in may head : more cp = more adr = more apm = i'm happy

[frail veldt]

supercharge is the same value always though

its always 2cps worth

[wintry solar]

3

[frail veldt]

err 3 or whatever

you cant fuck that up

no matter how you do it

so theres no reason to optimize around that

only thing you can fuck up is not using an rtb when you could

[hasty warren]

y but sometime I use supercharge with coup or dispatch to use it asap when bte on cd

[frail veldt]

and losing total amount of supercharge instances

[frail veldt]

why does that matter

it gives the same amount of cps

bte doesnt give you more cps

the supercharge doesnt count for doulbe cuz bte uses dispatch

if thats what youre thinking

[wintry solar]

I think he meant in terms of safety/dmg

[hasty warren]

bte supercharged give more damage than dispach

i think

[frail veldt]

the damage doesnt matter more than the cp gen

like you said

so you just use rtb when its optimal to do so

and follow finisher priority as normal

[hasty warren]

kk it was what i'm doing, i just wasn't sure if it was optimal

[frail veldt]

Yeah supercharger doesnt change your rotation at all

you can effectively ignore it

[wintry solar]

Ignore it

Ye

[frail veldt]

cuz you cant avoid using them anyway, the only way to avoid using supercharger would be to delay rtb

which would be very bad

[hasty warren]

also I saw than ppl like to roll during sub window, is it good ? persoanly I hate waste gcd for this

[wintry solar]

Imagine that 5 buff roll you could be missing out on

[frail veldt]

I did some testing on this

it is not a dps loss to not roll in the second half of subterfuge

and in fact lowers the dps variance in the sim

you can also change your rtb rules to be less strict in subterfuge in general i.e. if you have 4 buffs(which you would usually press rtb on as HO SC) you can choose not to while in subterfuge and it isnt a loss of dps

so yeah if you dont like rolling in subterfuge then you can choose not to under certain conditions, but if you have only 1 or 2 buffs in subterfuge its usually better to roll

so you dont waste cdr on rtb

[hasty warren]

ok i see

idk sometimes I don't want to roll at two buff when it's broadside + TB, I'm surely wrong but I hate roll this and getting 1 bad buff even if I have a huge chance to have 5

[fluid meadow]

"Blizzard has pushed Mythic+ hotfixes for today which includes making the KUJO encounter require full Line of Sight." whyyy???! every time when smthing is doable or good thing, they delete from an old dungeon where things works like that for years wtff

[wintry solar]

That gif was obnoxious

[hasty warren]

blizz hate that ppl having fun ig

[wintry solar]

I'm under the impression they have to make changes for the sake of changes to keep up the appearance that they're actively doing things.

Idk by who. Maybe players, maybe higher ups. But their tuning ideology has always been weird but these past 2 expansions stand out to me

[fluid meadow]

dungeon is full of rp downtimes and shits and they force to not do dmg in combat too gg, i want to solve puzzle in dungeons too

[wintry solar]

I actually really love that boss too

Smh

I tanked that boss as unholy back in bfa when the tank left. Spamming taunt like crazy.

[hasty warren]

honnesly they should remove the LOS on boxes

so everyone can hit during this timing

[wintry solar]

What was the bug in temple of sethraliss that made people hate the dungeon?

I've never had it bug out on me

I think something to do with the orbs

[hasty warren]

I don't see what dj u're talking about

oh yes the bfa setrak one

[hasty warren]

I think ppl realy hate the orb passage

I think it was way harder back then to pass

[fathom bramble]

dog should jump to a random side of the crate forcing you to react

and you should be able to melee him through the crate

[hasty warren]

I hate bosses with forces off time like this

I mean it appends every 30-45 sec

[fluid meadow]

delete box, balance the vents dmg healable and jump not for players just to their position to dodge

[wintry solar]

Imma be honest that and the little run over the bridge dodging stuff right before it were my favorite parts lol

[hasty warren]

kek

[wintry solar]

I'm also part of the minority that liked bfa so my opinion is probably invalid

[hasty warren]

I didn't played bfa but some dj are realy cool

king's rest seems realy cool

[wintry solar]

Have you played Eye Of The Storm yet? I think that was in rotation not long ago.

Kings Rest is good. Kinda hard but in a fun way.

[hasty warren]

humm i thin not

maybe sl S4

but I stop playing at thgis moment

[wintry solar]

It's the lovecraftian vibe

Ah I see

Well its a cool dungeon thematically but I wasn't a fan of it. Most people liked it and was curious if you did.

[hasty warren]

humm google says it's a pvp area lol

[wintry solar]

Hmmm

One sec

Oh my mistake

Shrine Of The Storm

[hasty warren]

the cata one ?

oh no

yes i see

I hate this one on leveling xd

[wintry solar]

Okay yes it is hands down the WORST leveling dungeon ever lol

I didn't think about leveling dungeons

[hasty warren]

the healees at the start still gives me nightmares

I can't remember if it was in a rotation

[runic bough]

shit

[hasty warren]

not in df almost sure

[runic bough]

I cant think what to drop for PC

[wintry solar]

Apparently there's a couple things

[wintry solar]

Not season 1?

[runic bough]

maybe

[wintry solar]

Surely there's a way to check

[runic bough]

Loaded dice

bye bye loaded dice

[wintry solar]

You still play loaded dice?

[runic bough]

shit

[hasty warren]

what was df s1 dj from bfa ?

[runic bough]

that wont let me go into PC

its not low enough

[hasty warren]

ataldazor ?

[runic bough]

GS for GSW

now i need to drop something for PC

[wintry solar]

I think Tobfon said either Ace or CTO. Maybe a 3rd thing

[wintry solar]

I think atal dazor

[runic bough]

HO relies on CTO too much

[hasty warren]

it was s2 of bfa

[wintry solar]

Bye bye ace

[hasty warren]

s2 freehold and underrot

[wintry solar]

Yeah dang

[hasty warren]

s3 waycreast manor

[runic bough]

WHAT ABOUT

KIR but we drop KIR for PC

[wintry solar]

I must've imagines it

[runic bough]

Break the meta guys

[hasty warren]

and for SL s4 it was both part of mechagon

[runic bough]

GOING GSW PC

[wintry solar]

Yeah and karazhan

[hasty warren]

I loved the legendary during SL lol

[wintry solar]

That I remember

[gaunt phoenix]

both loaded dice and sleight

[wintry solar]

He's leaving nothing to chance

[hasty warren]

more dice = more gain

[runic bough]

no KIR so you know its must

[hasty warren]

simple math

[wintry solar]

Wait why do you have both rtb talents if you're not using kir?

[runic bough]

for more buffs duh

[wintry solar]

Ofc

I should've known

[hasty warren]

gunslinger outlaw build

[runic bough]

I think

Triple threat would be better for m+ and swiftslasher for raid

but

[wintry solar]

Ooo you're playing fatebound

[runic bough]

I need some haste now that I dont have Surprise

maybe i need swiftslasher

[gaunt phoenix]

triple threat is fcking useless, just necessary to path into UHUH

[runic bough]

ok ill go swiftslash

[gaunt phoenix]

well you cant remove it you have to path into uhuh

[runic bough]

oh wait i cant

yes

correct

shit

[wintry solar]

Okay now sim it

[hasty warren]

sims are for ppl who don't like gamble

[runic bough]

ill keep vigor and tea

for like

since no haste

vigor and tea will be nice

[hasty warren]

tea 🤮

[runic bough]

OG ho build

vigor tea

hmmm

[wintry solar]

If you want OG, you talent out of UHUH and double vanish

[hasty warren]

take coldblood

[wintry solar]

Take tea

This is fun

[hasty warren]

wait vigor is here now

[wintry solar]

Yeah

[hasty warren]

so cringe

[runic bough]

im simming

m+

[hasty warren]

give me back my 50 energy

and my 3 range pls

[late swallow]

the forbidden no-ho, no-kir build

[hasty warren]

so no never played as m+ dj

[runic bough]

wtf guys

[wintry solar]

It's def an experience

[hasty warren]

give the numbers

[wintry solar]

Either love or hate

[runic bough]

They wont even let me sim it

bastards

[glass mortar]

u need to pick another talent set to compare it to

[hasty warren]

u did a quicksim ?

[wintry solar]

What a goober

[hasty warren]

or a gear check ?

[late swallow]

i'm guessing that shit is gonna be like 20-30% behind

[wintry solar]

At least 20

[hasty warren]

i bet 45%

[runic bough]

top gear

[wintry solar]

Nah he has crackshot

[hasty warren]

try quicksim

[late swallow]

no GS, no no ho, no kir

that build is down bad

but I wanna see it

[hasty warren]

my dream it's competitive

[late swallow]

link the talent code ryu

[runic bough]

OK

im simming it vs HO Trickster SC

[wintry solar]

Okay that's a good one

We love that

(We dont)

[hasty warren]

the promised PS build

our savior

[wintry solar]

Frankly

Elfinor

[runic bough]

you guys ready for the results

THE RESULTS ARE IN

[wintry solar]

Yes

SHOW

RAHHHH

37 percent

Watch

[runic bough]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/d1EVAAdSAg7R6aLVP4K4SG

[hasty warren]

hummm

[glass mortar]

only 18%

[wintry solar]

Wait

[runic bough]

imagine

[wintry solar]

Something isn't righy

Right

[runic bough]

Im only losing 300k by not playing meta

I wonder why aoe dmg will be

what

[hasty warren]

wait u're 639

[runic bough]

**

I havnt played outlaw since S1

[runic bough]

oh yeah Im also not in haste gear

_>

[hasty warren]

kk I was wondering why u're at less than M dps

[late swallow]

solo watching from the bushes

peeping solo!

[wintry solar]

Damn

[gaunt phoenix]

oh you dont have tier at all

[runic bough]

IT MIGHT WORK IF I HAVE THE HASTE

OMG

[hasty warren]

give us the string of the buimd

[late swallow]

blud is in s1 tier with 10% haste

[hasty warren]

I can sim it

[gaunt phoenix]

the good days

[runic bough]

this is the build I made

CQQAA0tw2gAD7pPTLoW5IGZDeAAMAYmxYmZGmxMjZmZYmZmplZMLzAAAAAAgtlZmBzMzsMmZZWGAAAAmZAGMbzmZmZ0MzGzCLbTLsYA

someone with haste gear sim it

[gaunt phoenix]

season 2 dragonflight tier

[hasty warren]

I still don't understand the haste on adr

[wintry solar]

Which one was that

[gaunt phoenix]

the one he's wearing

[runic bough]

im in S1 Mythic gear

[wintry solar]

Yeah

[runic bough]

This is the same dmg my demonhunter sims with 668 gear

besides tanking I think demonhunter was a waste of time

[hasty warren]

https://tenor.com/view/bad-callouts-rogue-gif-26757787

[wintry solar]

Soul Ripper

[hasty warren]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eKh4GZE8wu1GZqaYoh1jPR

5%

[runic bough]

4 mil is pretty high huh

with no KS

THIS COULD BE THE COPE BUILD

OMG

[hasty warren]

wait no it's 5% from st built

22% compared to Ho aoe

[runic bough]

maybe it would be better with SC instead of vigor

with the kir haste

like kir always takes sc

[wintry solar]

All I see is how high crackshot/ace prop the spec up

That's actually wild

Do a key....

[runic bough]

try this one next

CQQAA0tw2gAD7pPTLoW5IGZDeAAM2mBMzYMzMDzYmxMzMMzMz0yMmlZAAAAAAw2yMzgZmZWglZZAAAAYmBYwsNbmZmRzMbMLssNtwiB

[wintry solar]

Is that with sc?

[runic bough]

ye

[wintry solar]

Nice

[hasty warren]

i'm happy I don't splept wet to comtribute to this

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xbiSLfkkCLn5trr3yqoiSF

[wintry solar]

Yeah I find joy in doing this kind of stuff

[runic bough]

lol

[hasty warren]

it's better than st built xd

[runic bough]

OHHH YEAAA

NOW WERE TALKING

[hasty warren]

15%

it's not bad

[runic bough]

new build guys

pin iy

[hasty warren]

amost 4M dps

[runic bough]

it

[hasty warren]

kek

[runic bough]

Pin it Solo

No KS cope build

[wintry solar]

I like that name

[runic bough]

RYU MIGHT BE COMING OUT OF RETIREMENT

I need to get some haste gear though

[hasty warren]

u're the prophete we needed

[wintry solar]

I wonder how many people would actually take the dps loss

Like

Unironically see that and go "yeah thats fine"

[hasty warren]

honnestly when I get 3k i'll test it in guild run

[runic bough]

The dps loss is nothing compared to being deadge.

[wintry solar]

That is very true

[hasty warren]

with a PS oriented tier set it can be not bad

[runic bough]

and higher dmg pistol shots will help in AOE dmg + PC will help in aoe dmg.

[hasty warren]

so we prio audacity proc ?

[glass mortar]

i mean if its 17% behind just play fatebound

idk what u guys r doin

thats about how far behind fatebound is in aoe

[runic bough]

we are breaking the meta

BREAK THE META

well shit

Ill have to play HO until i get haste gear tho yeah

[wintry solar]

Can you show the build?

[frank finch]

whats this over cooking

[runic bough]

oh wait

[frank finch]

what is happening

[runic bough]

I just made new build

another

what if

we take surprise

[wintry solar]

Yeah?

And???

[runic bough]

lower our haste requirement

[hasty warren]

goodmorning

[runic bough]

CQQAA0tw2gAD7pPTLoW5IGZDeAAM2mBMzYYmZYGzMmZmxMzMz0yMmlZAAAAAAw2yMzgZmZWglZZAAAAYmBYwsNbmZmRzMbMLssNtwiB

With Surprise

[cinder haven]

HO without gs has the lowest haste required

[hasty warren]

wait insn't is night for usa right now ?

[runic bough]

its almost 11pm yeah

[hasty warren]

8am here

[runic bough]

ye ye this should work guys

IF I TAKE SURPRISE I CAN TEST IT NOW

[rotund zodiac]

Keep playing HO, it’s good this tier

[wintry solar]

Bro loves pressing sinister strike

I do too tbf but I'm stuck with HO

[runic bough]

im not going to play KS

[cinder haven]

But deft shouldn’t be used in HO

[wintry solar]

Sinister Striking in stealth is weird

[hasty warren]

btw do we still have double proc on sinister strike ? or it's not the case anymore ?

[runic bough]

I FORGOT ANOTHER TALENT OMG

[hasty warren]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/azXXmxXUTyR4RcSVrdxRFa

[runic bough]

tight spender wasnt selected!!!!

CQQAA0tw2gAD7pPTLoW5IGZDeAAM2mBMzYYmZYGzMmZmxMzMz0yMmtZAAAAAAw2yMzgZmZWglZZAAAAYmBYwsNbmZmRzMbMLssNtwiB

[rotund zodiac]

You playing fatebound?

[runic bough]

we are cooking right now

[rotund zodiac]

👀

[hasty warren]

GO BACK GO BACK

[cinder haven]

Why not play ho without gs and pop haste flask or something

[runic bough]

Now try Tight Spender

with Surprise

[wintry solar]

Can you make a better naming convention too plz, idk what I'm looking at

[cinder haven]

Also weapon oils exist if you are down bad for haste

[runic bough]

ok ok so the current test is

Tightspender Surprise GSW PC

[wintry solar]

With no HO or KiR

[runic bough]

ye ye

[cinder haven]

Fatebound?

[wintry solar]

Got it

[hasty warren]

surprise shot ?

[runic bough]

yeah

[cinder haven]

I don’t think dropping kir is right here

[still matrix]

He said only fatebound no trickster because no tricks

[glass mortar]

dropping kir is just a massive dps loss

lol

[runic bough]

its fine

[hidden bay]

the hell is this 💀

[runic bough]

its centered around GSW back off my grill homie

and no KS

[glass mortar]

gsw is like a 5% dps talent

[frank finch]

LOL

[hasty warren]

can't find it sry

[glass mortar]

ur giving up a build defining talent for it

[wintry solar]

You should drop ace then

[glass mortar]

like u can take gsw as kir

[hasty warren]

i'm a little tired

[glass mortar]

but u dont drop kir to do it

why

every fatebound build is a non kspree build

[runic bough]

well u need to drop 2 bottom talents for gsw+pc

[wintry solar]

People HATE to see someone make silly builds

[cinder haven]

He dropped the dispatch talent too for haste

[glass mortar]