outlaw

[proven ocean]

no cap

[vivid vessel]

haha

[late swallow]

[vivid vessel]

hahahah

[glass mortar]

are they like 3% player power now or something

[vivid vessel]

hahahahahahaha

[late swallow]

Ross got me there

[proven ocean]

ahahahahaha

[vivid vessel]

funny cause it prolly impact no one

[glass mortar]

they were so shit before

[vivid vessel]

but outlaw

hahahaha a

[sullen wyvern]

zac stop

[vivid vessel]

so funnny

[glass mortar]

nah it does

[sullen wyvern]

[glass mortar]

zac idk why u think this fight is only bad for law

nobody in the game likes this fight

[vivid vessel]

weran

[proven ocean]

fire mage, sub rogue cds lign up with the los alot

[sullen wyvern]

Friday dooming

[glass mortar]

healers dont like this

[vivid vessel]

tel lme

[glass mortar]

who the fuck wants to sit afk for a quarter of a fight

[vivid vessel]

if im sub

and i have to hide

why do i care

[glass mortar]

its worse for us dps wise sure

[vivid vessel]

if im assa

and i have to hide

why do i care

[late swallow]

That fight is better for classes with burst

[glass mortar]

im just saying there is nobody who would like this change

[late swallow]

You just do your dam and afk

[vivid vessel]

if im outlaw

and i have

to hide

for 5 s

what happnes

weran

tell me what happens please

[proven ocean]

fire mage prob suffers more than outlaw btw

[vivid vessel]

we all know what happens

[proven ocean]

cuz

outlaw does 0 dmg

so

0 wont go below 0

[vivid vessel]

sure thing cuh

[proven ocean]

fire mage needs uptime to get more combusts

[late swallow]

[glass mortar]

i mean its hotfixes right it should be live

[vivid vessel]

i know what happens cause i have played with tanks that cant los

[glass mortar]

someone go do the fight or

[vivid vessel]

and when you have tankes that cant los

you just lose adr

[proven ocean]

well ppl wont just die btw randomly

cuz

[vivid vessel]

on cd

[proven ocean]

buff makes u immune

[vivid vessel]

and then you just do 0 damage

[proven ocean]

thats all

[vivid vessel]

the whole fight

[proven ocean]

also

ngl

fixing

that

pre tgp

is cringe

lol

[vivid vessel]

nah but they aint fixing that

right guys

they are not making the game worse for everyone right guys

they wouldnt do that

[proven ocean]

ik what this change is for btw

[vivid vessel]

they do not have a precedent for that right

[proven ocean]

its not a change to improve the quality of the game

because

it doesnt affect casuals

[glass mortar]

LISTEN until we find out what the change is u cant be 100% certain they are that out of touch zac

[proven ocean]

its just a random bored ass wow dev that wants to get the top M+ community tilted

[glass mortar]

theres like a 99% chance it is that tho

[proven ocean]

because hes a piece of shit

no cap

[glass mortar]

why man

[vivid vessel]

porolly a wow dev that tanks this season

he got shitted on

in his weekly 10

[proven ocean]

[vivid vessel]

cause he didnt know how to do the los strat

[glass mortar]

the boss should do this mechanic like 3 times a fight max man

its so shit

[proven ocean]

truie

[vivid vessel]

right

i know im right

[glass mortar]

or just make it so u can hit the dog thru the box if u put him on top of it or something

[vivid vessel]

if they fgix this shit man

[glass mortar]

its not hard

[vivid vessel]

there is no way they fix that shit

[glass mortar]

nobody wants to do this fight ever

[proven ocean]

i just hate this fucking shit

like

[vivid vessel]

ye why cant you just hit it trough box

what does that change

[proven ocean]

they do changes that are clear that the person who made such changes are actually fucked in the head

[vivid vessel]

to the fight

[proven ocean]

it cant be any other way

its just

[vivid vessel]

ok actually what if they did just that

[proven ocean]

pure

cringe

shit

[vivid vessel]

and im just shitting on them

who knows

hope i wake up to a good news tomorrow

anyone wanna do the fight in m0 quickly

[sullen wyvern]

ill do a ws 10 and test

[vivid vessel]

im in bed rn

[proven ocean]

zac

\

huge nerf this tho

like

its affected by avoidance

insane

or?

[dawn tundra]

Hello. I'm very new here and am a struggling Outlaw main looking for help getting his DPS up in Heroic LoU.

[proven ocean]

with a nerf

thats like

holy cow of cows cuh

?

[glass mortar]

feel free to ask any questions for specifics u have in here, i highly recommend #outlaw-faq a read thru of this

if u already know the basics a read of this is also decent

!commonerrors

[ornate heath]

Common errors for Outlaw -> see this answer in the FAQ.

[proven ocean]

also wtf is this

this is the most RANDOM nerf

i've ever seen

in my life

nobody even pulls the cat pack

and

why change healths

just nerf 1st boss leap, nerf lightspawn sucking dmg + increase its cast time when dying

and lower knight aoe dmg

thats literally it

dungeon is completely balanced now

if they do that

legit

they can also nerf thunder clap

by

10%

or someshit

cuz why not

[dawn talon]

it gets facepulled by randoms in +12 for 3k

that's what the nerf is for lol

[proven ocean]

or sharpshooters hits

nah sharpshooter isnt necessary

i take it back

[dawn talon]

all the shoot mobs in this season are fine

imo

like sometimes they're just fking

infuriating

[proven ocean]

also

ppl are playing vdh

and

boomkin

[proven ocean]

and

[vivid vessel]

yep

[proven ocean]

blizzard

[vivid vessel]

they are clueless

[proven ocean]

expects

people

[vivid vessel]

they hate people

having fun

in their game

[proven ocean]

to legit not play those 2 classes

[vivid vessel]

thats actually a crazy change

ngl

[proven ocean]

meanwhile

[vivid vessel]

crazy change

[proven ocean]

every pull

has 1000 casters

[vivid vessel]

they hate their game

they want people to hate their game

[proven ocean]

no way bro

[dawn tundra]

So, I do a few specific questions. My first being how should I put my buttons and in what order should they go? I got a weakaura today but it's not really helping me figure things out.

[glass mortar]

thats all person pref idk

[vivid vessel]

these devs

[glass mortar]

u do what u do with other characters

[vivid vessel]

are so fucking bad

[glass mortar]

all of outlaws rotational buttons need to be immediatly accesible

[vivid vessel]

welp

i guess outlaw

[proven ocean]

ok

[glass mortar]

our longest effective cd is like 1m long

[proven ocean]

they did nerf sharpshooters

i guess

[vivid vessel]

is even more useless

[proven ocean]

and

[vivid vessel]

than it was

[proven ocean]

paladin health

good

but

i think

they have to work on

[vivid vessel]

might aswell delete it from the game

[proven ocean]

lightspawns

legit

light spawn

and knights

are mega cancer

why does a knight do bleed + aoe hit

like

do they want to convert him to sargeras

or someshit

?

[dawn tundra]

I just don't get it at all. So should I just move all of the cooldowns to the first five buttons or what?

[glass mortar]

whatever works for u

[vivid vessel]

thats so funny actually

[proven ocean]

lol

zac

[vivid vessel]

outlaw is litteraly unplayable

[proven ocean]

no way they nerf last boss hp

[glass mortar]

u want ur builders and spenders to be the things easiest to press

[vivid vessel]

on every boss

in workshop

[proven ocean]

ive never seen a boss hp nerf

in m+

before

[glass mortar]

but all ur cds get used 10X as often as any other specs CDs

[proven ocean]

ngl

thats crazy

[glass mortar]

so u dont want them on buttons u stretch for

[vivid vessel]

?

[proven ocean]

oh

[glass mortar]

u have alot of effective binds as outlaw because everything kinda needs to be fast accesible

[proven ocean]

kujo health reduced

[vivid vessel]

yes

[proven ocean]

thats understandable

but

still

cringe

[vivid vessel]

oh you mea nin prioryu

[glass mortar]

AR and KiR are you longest "cds"

[proven ocean]

ye

[vivid vessel]

its a boss?

[proven ocean]

ye

[vivid vessel]

idk the names

[proven ocean]

prioress

[vivid vessel]

ok

[proven ocean]

last boss

the shield one

[vivid vessel]

oh well

[proven ocean]

i guess they just want timer to be slightly more forgiving

[vivid vessel]

im glad they are actively making the game worse to play tho

thats always good

outalw was already struggling for uptime on that fight btw

thats actually so funny

cant believe there is people that comes in here everyday

to say

that outlaw good keys

are top

[glass mortar]

it barely matters but its such a sensless change its a bit wild to me

[vivid vessel]

and wrokshope

[proven ocean]

bro idk why they're nerfing last boss priory hp

thats too overkill

[glass mortar]

so out of touch

[proven ocean]

ngl

not needed

[glass mortar]

crazy

[proven ocean]

12.5%

like

[glass mortar]

tune dungeon specs

[proven ocean]

why do that

[glass mortar]

instead of dungeons

[vivid vessel]

ye it doesnt change anyuthing

at all

[glass mortar]

how bout that

[vivid vessel]

outside of making the boss cringer to play

oh and also

destroying outlaw dps on that bos

other specs ?

prolly dont care at all

[glass mortar]

yea 99% of game uneffected zac

its just so

idk what to say

i will not speak

[vivid vessel]

im so glad outlaw get turbo fucked

every week

[glass mortar]

lets not crash out on a friday about a turbo dumb change

[vivid vessel]

over and over

[proven ocean]

im disappointed by darkflame absorb nerf

[vivid vessel]

imma crash out about whatever i want weran

[proven ocean]

TOTALLY NOT NEEDED

like

[glass mortar]

we new there was some out of touch people on the dev team

[proven ocean]

????????????

[glass mortar]

its not the whole team

[proven ocean]

bro

why

nerf

darkflame

[glass mortar]

but changes like this are just

[proven ocean]

if

its

the easiest

key

this season

???????????????????

[vivid vessel]

that boss is impossible to heal ross

idk what you are saying

[proven ocean]

wdym

[vivid vessel]

the dungeon itself is easy

[proven ocean]

its good

[sullen wyvern]

They didnt fix that during live content in BFA, they nerf it now

[vivid vessel]

the boss is not healable

[proven ocean]

that boss has to legit be hard

[sullen wyvern]

These devs dont play the game at all

[proven ocean]

bro

[vivid vessel]

i mean sure idk

[proven ocean]

ppl are doing it on +21

on tgp

just get avoidance

and it'll get easier

thats all

its a high key change

if u cnat heal a +10

u might aswell just uninstall wow

and go play cod

or diablo

lmao

[runic bough]

Guys can we all settle down

[proven ocean]

ngl i loved that boss when he was challenging to heal

u legit

feel ur healer

suffering

cuz the key is high

but

yet

its the easiest key

in the season

xd

now

u legit cannoot deplete that key

impossible

u save dmg for carts 1st boss

and

u time key

gg

impossible to wipe on any boss

[runic bough]

Lets all remember the times back in df s3.

[proven ocean]

0% chance

[sullen wyvern]

how do we even do that fight now

as outlaw

and not do tank damage

[runic bough]

Let us remember to good days

[glass mortar]

vanish the flame phases

theres no damage to break it

[proven ocean]

bro

[glass mortar]

u just gotta

[proven ocean]

ryukage plz

[glass mortar]

save a charge for every one

[proven ocean]

cba

[glass mortar]

🙂

[proven ocean]

my guy is talking about season 3

[vivid vessel]

you cant

[proven ocean]

when we're complaining about boss changes

[vivid vessel]

do that

as trcikster

lololololol

weraaaan

[glass mortar]

🙂

yes u can

its fucking awful

[vivid vessel]

im going craxzyyyy

[glass mortar]

ive done it

but its way less awful

[vivid vessel]

you are going to be doing

[glass mortar]

then doing it the other way

[vivid vessel]

tank damage

on that fight

[proven ocean]

zac

save cloak

for it

[runic bough]

Outlaw was so happy we didn't complain then did we

[proven ocean]

xdd

[vivid vessel]

you are going to be doing

tank damage

[proven ocean]

no cap

[vivid vessel]

on that fight

ok you know what im gonna do

[glass mortar]

cloak first one

[vivid vessel]

tank it while in sk

ks

[sullen wyvern]

why even go outlaw on that fight

lmao

[glass mortar]

vanish second

[vivid vessel]

idk

[glass mortar]

vanish third

[proven ocean]

zac

just go sub

[glass mortar]

vanishfourthvanishfifthvanishsixth ahahahahahahaha

[proven ocean]

its that easy

[vivid vessel]

bro i just wanna play my spec

why is it

[glass mortar]

its so bad zac

[vivid vessel]

so bad

legit

so trash

everywhere

every content

its unplayable

idk man

[glass mortar]

its funny cause this barely matters for every other spec in the game

[vivid vessel]

idk

[glass mortar]

this is like a direct outlaw nerf

in this key tho

[runic bough]

Preach it zac

[glass mortar]

10%+ boss dps nerf easily

w/e

[vivid vessel]

bro its way more than that

[glass mortar]

probably closer to 30%

[vivid vessel]

i think you guys dont realize

ahahhaaha

[glass mortar]

i was lowballing it hard

[sullen wyvern]

10% boss nerf doesnt even compensate that change

[glass mortar]

yea if u vanish and afk for like 10s as trickster

[vivid vessel]

you legit can do tank damage

[glass mortar]

u just come otu with kspree mid crackshot

coup mid crackshot

it fucks over all the flow

[runic bough]

Zac we need more exposure try to do what zeross does and play with famous streamers

[glass mortar]

u just waste so much effective kspree cdr

[vivid vessel]

bro whatever these devs are all stupid what can you do

make a change that make the game worse ?

for no reason ?

this boss been like that for 10 years?

now its not good ?

we make the game worse

okokok

i see

is the game more enhjoyable cause of this change ?

do people have more fun

nop

just worse for everyone

okok i see

good change

glad they took dev time

to do that

[runic bough]

Its not about the player anymore zac

The player hasn't been the target audience of wow for years now.

[hasty warren]

yo pirates

[runic bough]

Welcome to outlaw Elf

We talk about outlaw things here

[hasty warren]

how u're doing ?

[glass mortar]

just another night of playing world of warcraft

[vapid sundial]

It's bored Dev syndrome.

They have to make changes or they will get fired.

It's the same as discord, they keep changing the ui to make it worse so they have a job.

[hasty warren]

i'm addicted to roll the bones since sl dw I know the house

[runic bough]

Devs refuse to make changes players want and make changes to ruin the game. It's been the motto for long time now.

[vapid sundial]

If you make good changes nothing to fix.

[runic bough]

So we are just enjoying what we can, while we can yo know

[vapid sundial]

And you have no job

[runic bough]

I've never liked rtb personally

[vapid sundial]

Ban this man

Ban him now

Get him out

!ban @runic bough

[runic bough]

Like trickster buffs should be what rtb buffs are.

Instead we get shit miniscule

[vapid sundial]

I honestly hate bored Dev syndrome

It's so annoying.

[runic bough]

!unban Ryukage

[vapid sundial]

I sure do love the fact that the original ui for discord was the best

And it's progressively gotten worse and worse.

[runic bough]

I unbanned myself now ryker

Lets move on

[hasty warren]

uhu, so why u're palying ol xd

[runic bough]

I'm retired

I play other classes now

But outlaw is my favorite, it's just the most oppressed spec in game is all.

And outlaw discord is good peoples

Very talented individuals here

Nice community

[vapid sundial]

We're all mentally ill like him

That's why he's here

[sullen wyvern]

speak for yourself

[vapid sundial]

[sullen wyvern]

no talent here

just good rolls sometimes

This is definetly the most active and informative spec discord I've seen

[runic bough]

Yeah

[potent gyro]

[vapid sundial]

[runic bough]

I was in dh discord recently, everytime I ask a question they just say fuck off or no response.

[vapid sundial]

Yeah that's normal

For there

[runic bough]

[potent gyro]

Real & true

[vapid sundial]

Dh disc is known as the worst for a reason.

[potent gyro]

Zoomer disc

[vapid sundial]

Ol full of zoomers too

[runic bough]

Druid discord I'm starting to chat there. They have a lot of animal icons and it's funny like here but not as much. Less active there.

[vapid sundial]

Dh players just psychopaths

[vapid sundial]

Furry and self depreciation

[runic bough]

Also I kinda feel like outlaw as havoc, where the dmg is oppressed by design.

I wanna try feral next

They said it's the same thing but I'll see

[hasty warren]

real

[vapid sundial]

Bleed spec yuck

[runic bough]

Feral is apparently more fun than sin though

Sin is nap nap time

[vapid sundial]

That's not saying much

[potent gyro]

I’ve started playing assassination it kinda goes hard

[vapid sundial]

Doing the dishes is more fun than sin

[potent gyro]

I can feed my 10 month old in between cds

[runic bough]

[random stirrup]

I kind of enjoyed it on mugzee icl

Big envenom

Big number

Zugzug

[vapid sundial]

Envenom deez

[random stirrup]

Blindside feels real good

[potent gyro]

Deez ligmas?

[vapid sundial]

https://tenor.com/view/baby-nut-dancing-whip-gif-16298735

[potent gyro]

Holy shit

Look at his little shoes

[hollow portal]

The post with the changes to the outlaw will be out soon, they are writing it.

[vapid sundial]

There is no outlaw post.

[fathom bramble]

.7 KS rework surely

[vapid sundial]

Rogue is forgetting

Forgotten

Let alone outlaw

[fathom bramble]

.5 patch had no class changes for anyone

surely that means .7 patch has class changes

[potent gyro]

Replace KS with some sort of cannon blast that doesn’t teleport me to my doom and give me acro back

[vapid sundial]

Chat got is cooking

[potent gyro]

And I’m vibing so hard

[vapid sundial]

Gpt

Hold up

[runic bough]

Oh guys

Did u know sin runs speed is shit. Feral is 150%

That was another interesting note I made

[potent gyro]

That’s coconuts

[vapid sundial]

Goes hard

[runic bough]

So you have more run speed, a brez, raid buff and soothe all on feral

[fathom bramble]

there's something wrong with those dice

[potent gyro]

Next potch?

[vapid sundial]

Yeah seems right

For how we type here

[runic bough]

This is so good

[vapid sundial]

[vapid sundial]

Weighted

Just like rtb

[potent gyro]

[vapid sundial]

[vivid vessel]

lok

you seen the change

[fathom bramble]

RTB use to have actual odds that you would get from throwing 6d6 btw

[vivid vessel]

to workshop second boss

[fathom bramble]

yeahh

[potent gyro]

At least we’re all great friends

[fathom bramble]

it's weird because it's a good change imo to remove bug abuse in keys

and other janky shit

[vivid vessel]

between the spreads and los

its actually over

[vapid sundial]

Isn't that why the animation was what it is

[fathom bramble]

but there's so many things that just matter more than a bug people are enjoying abusing

[vivid vessel]

ik mena

for example

[glass mortar]

its a shit boss

[fathom bramble]

it's why it is dice

[glass mortar]

u made it worse to play

[vivid vessel]

the numerous bugs

[potent gyro]

lol Zac you wanted uptime?

Noob

[vivid vessel]

that kills you kekw

[fathom bramble]

but now it's dice still but with completely fake odds

[glass mortar]

this change shoulda come with something else

like

why is it a box

make it a smoke bomb

u sit in and can hit the boss

idk

anything

[vivid vessel]

like being able to hit trhough wall idk

why are we just afk

[glass mortar]

u just make it worse for everyone in the game

xdxd

[vivid vessel]

for 6 sec

how is that fun

[glass mortar]

why waste time with a change like this

here have some less fun

[potent gyro]

Immersive hiding gameplay

Rogue RP

They’re doing it for us I think

[vapid sundial]

Wym it IS inmersive

[fathom bramble]

if I were reworking it I would make him jump to a random face of the crate

and make you react to this and position yourself

[vapid sundial]

People ignore u in q like you're invisible

[glass mortar]

or it should just be 1 hit

why is it

[fathom bramble]

increase hitbox size during this mechanic and let players hit through the crate

[potent gyro]

Lmao

[glass mortar]

8s of pulsing

if any tick of it hits u u die automatically

if u didnt die to the first tick ur not gunna die

[runic bough]

You forgot this company is notorious for prolonging the simplest of things. That's their job to prolong things.

[glass mortar]

why is it 8s long

[potent gyro]

Can we still vanish the leap on that boss? I literally haven’t even tried it this szn

[vivid vessel]

its 8?

no way its 8 s

[glass mortar]

6s w/e

let me check journal

[vapid sundial]

Yes

Hunter was doing It

[fathom bramble]

cloak is enough to survive it

so it'

it's definitely not 8

[potent gyro]

Ye you can cloak the whole thing

[glass mortar]

any amount is too long there is zero reason for it to be longer then 1 or 2 ticks

[vapid sundial]

I told my tank to spell ward me when he fucked up the positioning once

[vivid vessel]

one thing tho

[vapid sundial]

And ran out and died

Bc he didn't

[vivid vessel]

idk if you guys ever tried that

[vapid sundial]

[vivid vessel]

but

you can

hit between ticks

[fathom bramble]

true

[vivid vessel]

mega gamble tho

are you good enough

[fathom bramble]

just only do it if cheat is up

[vivid vessel]

ye

[fathom bramble]

but the timing isn't that hard

[potent gyro]

No

[vivid vessel]

i was doing it

when bad tanks

but idk if i would be confident without cheat

i think cheat is over at 17 lok

[fathom bramble]

you can also autoattack through line of sight

[vivid vessel]

i cant live the dogs

before that boss

[fathom bramble]

rip

[vivid vessel]

the dots from them

i cheat deah on them everytime

and legit get every externals on the planet everytime

[fathom bramble]

did you swap to sin yet

or what

[vivid vessel]

no

im just doing like

5 keys a week

imma just enjoy myself

[fathom bramble]

fair

[vivid vessel]

which

im not really doing rn

every time i do keys i get more and more depressed

[fathom bramble]

my version of that is just giving up and only doing my weekly 10-13s for vault

[vivid vessel]

its as i predicted btw

in higher keys i legit do 0 damage

• i have to play ks

so

[fathom bramble]

I mean it's the same as every season

[sullen wyvern]

is it because of how carefuly you gotta play cuz of KS?

[vivid vessel]

nop

[fathom bramble]

higher the key goes the more sub/sin win

[glass mortar]

yea im just doing my min keys for vault every week on rogue rn

[fathom bramble]

and the further casters blast into space

[glass mortar]

playing evoker and monk mainly in keys for fun

[craggy barn]

hmmm

[sullen wyvern]

why then

[vivid vessel]

its because other specs scale with key level

outlaw doesnt

[craggy barn]

why does my sims put ho 5% under kir

[sullen wyvern]

ah

[vivid vessel]

real specs just get better cd usages

[sullen wyvern]

makes snese

[vivid vessel]

you are capped at hte damage you were doing in 14s

[glass mortar]

trickster ho vs kir fatebound?

[vivid vessel]

• i have 0 raid buff

[fathom bramble]

packs living longer and you start deliberately playing around cooldowns

which results in large packs perfectly aligned with CD specs that are mostly uncapped these days

it just puts otl in the dirt in comparison

[vivid vessel]

ok but like

guys

i need

[craggy barn]

oh i know why

gdi

[vivid vessel]

workshop

the outlaw key right

there is litteraly

2 min

downtime

between

every pack

first pack > 30s

boss dead > 30s

second boss dead > 1 min

miniboss dead > 2 min rp

[fathom bramble]

imagine fatebound

[hidden bay]

play a real class zac

[vivid vessel]

kill 2 dudes > rp again

[hidden bay]

[vivid vessel]

kill the packs > 30s

like

wdym outlaw keys

are people stupid

people are stupid

[vapid sundial]

Don't forget the boss stunning u

[vivid vessel]

because even outlaw players

will look your

[vapid sundial]

And then jumping out of his mech

[vivid vessel]

straight in the eyes

[leaden folio]

outlaw patch

[vivid vessel]

and tell you

workshop

is an outlaw key

its litteraly

the worse outlaw key

im not capping

[runic bough]

No cap

[vivid vessel]

idk how people are stuck in sl

[hidden bay]

top kinda similar

[vivid vessel]

this hard

its crazy to me

craxzy

[glass mortar]

outlaw doesnt have keys

[vapid sundial]

Zac is about to lose it

[glass mortar]

outlaw keys are a difficulty range

not a type of dungeon

[fathom bramble]

we do quite well in top

[glass mortar]

at this point

[fathom bramble]

but really the way you pull does more than the actual key

[glass mortar]

top is our worst dungeon tho xd

[fathom bramble]

especially in low keys

[vivid vessel]

outlaw type of keys is priory

ok

[hidden bay]

top has almost as much rp and downtime as ws

[vivid vessel]

you just have to ignore

[potent gyro]

I hate top on outlaw

[fathom bramble]

who cares about downtime if we can stealth during it

[vivid vessel]

that you pull too big

and you suck then

[vivid vessel]

you care cause other specs get their cds back

while you lose your hard earned buffs

[vapid sundial]

You mit the downtime if you do it right

Bc you don't pull first 3

And pull them Into last

[lunar elk]

!logs

[vivid vessel]

outlaw is a momentum spec in m+ rn

[fathom bramble]

that's fair

[vivid vessel]

only does good when you keep up the momentum

[hidden bay]

bro really described top to me as if the highest key ive done is a 5

[fathom bramble]

I was mostly thinking about how it effects law, not how much more it benefits others

[vivid vessel]

you afk 30s between every pack

its shit

[glass mortar]

u have such short windows to roll 5 buffs in dungeon packs

with this awful set bonus

if u roll it at the end

u just got like 1/5th of a 5 roll

cause u lose it on the run to the next pack in ToP

it sucks so hard

u feel so swingy to

like u cant control where ur damage is more then ever as law

with this 5 buff chance

[vapid sundial]

The question is why are you choosing to get offended?

What about the other people who will read your message and may not know?

[hidden bay]

im not offended

not that easily at least

[glass mortar]

if u roll 4 1 buffs on an important pack it might just not die fast enough xd. that is unless ur CD players can carry u to make up the difference since they control that power

really hate the set bonus more in dungeons then i do in raid ngl

[vivid vessel]

i have said since day one

that it was trash rng

but no

cause guy looked at sim

and the rng isnt as bad

:)

[hidden bay]

its kind afun idk

[fathom bramble]

didn't variance go up in the sim?

like a lot

[hidden bay]

really fits the theme they were going for

[glass mortar]

it must have surely

definitly in shorter sims

[vivid vessel]

idk last we checked it didnt really move

[glass mortar]

like obviously on raid fights it normalizes out

but on a dungeon pack

[vivid vessel]

but we check a sim

[glass mortar]

where u might have time for 5 RtB casts total

[vivid vessel]

and its

a 6 in fight

so

[glass mortar]

the damage variance between 5 buff packs and 4 back to back 1 buff packs

is so high

[vivid vessel]

i go into a pack i roll a 5 buff im doing 12 mil dps

i roll 1 buffers

[glass mortar]

and u have zero control over it

[vivid vessel]

im doing 5 mil

[glass mortar]

KiR has it more normalized at least then HO

[vivid vessel]

idk how ho players do it

ngl

at least as kir

i just force it

[glass mortar]

HO is like, u almost feel like a cd spec with a 5 buff. but then u uncontrollably do 5m dps at 8 targets if u just get bad rolls

[vapid sundial]

It's funny bc rtb rng used to not hit you this hard

[dawn talon]

interesting the raidlogging andy doesn't dislike it much

[glass mortar]

gm > gm > gm > why is our rogue losing to the tank he didnt even have cds

[vapid sundial]

He doesn't even play outlaw

Wym

[glass mortar]

the nerf didnt help of course

[proven ocean]

trallalero trallala 🦈 🦈

[hidden bay]

i think next tier will feel worse without this tier set

[proven ocean]

🦈 🦈 🦈

[glass mortar]

very noticable

[hidden bay]

having way less buffs overall

[dawn talon]

dude this italian brainrot shit

[glass mortar]

theres so much more piss downtime u cant plan around in m+

[dawn talon]

is legit unwatchable

andi t's everywhere

[proven ocean]

loooooooooooooool

ye

im fine if a bad meme shows up

for like

2-3 days

but

for weeks

thats mega insane

[glass mortar]

ugh ok we have been dooming all night

[civic zephyr]

Is Fatebound KIR viable?

[glass mortar]

i need to glowup

time for some delves

who do i delve on first

rogue evoker hunter monk

[vivid vessel]

not in m+

[proven ocean]

it was funny first few days

but idk

[vapid sundial]

It showed up. Months ago and now resurfaced

[vivid vessel]

not if youi wnna do dmaage

[vapid sundial]

I hate it

[civic zephyr]

So I'll want Fatebound HO

[vivid vessel]

not in m+

not if you wanna do damage

[glass mortar]

fatebound is whats not viable in m+

[fathom bramble]

I guess the sims say variance went down over a 5minute fight for kir

[glass mortar]

not kir

[fathom bramble]

went up for ho

[civic zephyr]

What do I want for M+ lol

[vivid vessel]

kinda was neutral last we checkd idk

[glass mortar]

ho ir kir trickster

[vivid vessel]

but like

why do i care about a sim

[glass mortar]

if ur asking here u probably wanna start with HO trickster tho

[vivid vessel]

my m+ pack

last 40 s

my spec

variance

is infinite

[fathom bramble]

I think it's obvious in game that you can get way more (un)lucky and just swing massively

[hidden bay]

doesnt it still average out anyway

cuz dungeon has

[glass mortar]

ok but

[hidden bay]

more than 1 pull

[fathom bramble]

it just averages out over a 5 minute singletarget encounter

[vivid vessel]

ok but

[glass mortar]

its not ok to average out ur damage over a dungeon

when ur in top keys

[fathom bramble]

in a sense

[glass mortar]

u need damage

[vivid vessel]

it doesnt average out

[glass mortar]

on X packs

[vivid vessel]

cause you wiped

[glass mortar]

X packs r filler

[vivid vessel]

on that hard pack

[fathom bramble]

but dungeons tend to have multiple much more important packs

[glass mortar]

etc

[vivid vessel]

cause you rolled 1 buff

over and over

[glass mortar]

u cant just have rng swing ur dps by 40%

thats like, nightmare scenario

[vivid vessel]

wdym 40%

its legit 200%

[fathom bramble]

if you just do no damage on the pack that is riding the line between death and timing the key then it's jsut bricked

[vivid vessel]

my dude

wait

[vapid sundial]

Can we stop typing like zoomers with 4 people at once holy shit

LMAO

[vivid vessel]

i do 100 damage

[dawn talon]

ive actually never wanted to alt f4 as bad

as rolling like bt bt gm

[vivid vessel]

whats 200% more

wait

[hidden bay]

zoomer typing is the only way to express thoughts well

[vivid vessel]

well idk the math

whatever

x2

you get me

yo

[glass mortar]

outlaw has always been abit like this.

the set just made it worse

for the season

[vivid vessel]

meh

[glass mortar]

the gap between bad rolls + bad procs and good roll on a trash pack is massive

[vivid vessel]

didnt feel that bad in s1

or in df

[glass mortar]

over a dungeon it averages out to a good overall

[fathom bramble]

back when 5 buffs were rare you did basically the same damage everytime on ho

[glass mortar]

but in a top key, u want power where u need it

[runic bough]

I told you guys the tier set was shit

[fathom bramble]

and kir didn't vary that much unless your cto just bricked entirely

compared to now

[runic bough]

Slap to outlaw face

[glass mortar]

this rng power average strong is very very bad design

[vivid vessel]

ye

[glass mortar]

for that style of content

i get why zac plays kir in keys

kir can force itself to good rolls way easier

[hidden bay]

its fun tho

[glass mortar]

HO u can just be turbo doomed and helpless on a pack

[vivid vessel]

well it has nothing to do with rng tbf

i just hate ho

[civic zephyr]

Okay so what is it lol.

[hidden bay]

fun>balancing for 0.1% anyone agree?

[fathom bramble]

revert audacity change

[vivid vessel]

ho trickster my dude

its everywhere

[civic zephyr]

Trickster KIR

[glass mortar]

we are having a conversation about the overall design of outlaw right now, not trying to recommend u what to play

[vivid vessel]

check faq

pins

wowhead

[glass mortar]

sorry

[civic zephyr]

Okay

[glass mortar]

i said it earlier

[vivid vessel]

icy vein

[glass mortar]

play HO trickster

[vivid vessel]

method

[civic zephyr]

Trickster HO

[glass mortar]

we r talking about like

+17s

[vivid vessel]

what audacity change

oh you mean

the auto proc

ye

good change right

[vapid sundial]

Revert outlaw

[glass mortar]

the part where its no longer a rotational thing

[vivid vessel]

the part where you just

deleted ho

cause why not

[fathom bramble]

I can't believe they just decided it was fine for audacity to be a massive damage loss to take

without ho

[glass mortar]

literally the only fun part of HO for me is doing audacity bug in stealth man

its like the only small nuance HO even has

[vivid vessel]

ye well

[glass mortar]

trickster at least added some stuffs but its still so minor

[vivid vessel]

i hope they delete that shit

[sullen wyvern]

Ho is no fun at all, I do feel is more consistent with CP generation I guess why people prefer it

[fathom bramble]

idk they feel functionally the same to me

I just don't like kir

[vapid sundial]

Kir is just bfa outlaw with an extra button.

[sullen wyvern]

I am replaying KiR and it hurts using my brain again

[vivid vessel]

meh

i just love fth

and ho

[sullen wyvern]

HO is so straight forward

[vivid vessel]

doesnt use fth

properly

it uses fth

like if a child was playing

wioth poop

[glass mortar]

i like the way the builders of kir play more

[desert tendon]

LMAO

Zac with the fact

[glass mortar]

ho definitly feels like the fury warrior outlaw rogue

[fathom bramble]

it's crazy that the take of ho being easy even exists idk

[desert tendon]

tell them son

[fathom bramble]

ho is still harder than most specs rogue has ever had

[glass mortar]

well

[desert tendon]

kir superiority

[glass mortar]

no outlaw is easy

[fathom bramble]

and harder than most specs currently in the game

[glass mortar]

yea i mean i think outlaw is one of the hardest specs in the game

[vapid sundial]

It's not. A think

It is

[vivid vessel]

me when

[glass mortar]

seems like outlaw players like to act like it isnt but idk

[vivid vessel]

people say outlaw is easy