outlaw

[night dragon]

Tbh I’m not so sure I do right amount of damage on outlaw. Yesterday I did 1st pull floodgate and had 10m dmg. Compared to what you guys see (who are way more into outlaw than me). How do I compare… I know it’s hard since rng spec but still

[vivid vessel]

10mil DPS is kinda what outlaw peak has

But I mean comparing one pull isn't how you go about things

Yes me

Except I'm dropping it this week

In reclears

No cap

[lime lake]

i believe

sending you my energy

the weapon will drop

[vivid vessel]

For me !

I don't have it in hc so surely it's easy attrib right

[wintry solar]

Me when I don't spend any dinar because I'm holding out for drops and then the next season suddenly starts.

It WILL drop (it wont)

[vivid vessel]

should just insta send on very rares

[vague cape]

dinar comment moreso means a lot of items aren't that valuable taking

[vivid vessel]

Sockets ate worth nothing king

I have a socket in vault this week

0.2% increase

I'm debating taking a belt with diff stats that is a 0.1% DPS loss

Just so I have it and maybe someday it's a gain

sockets are just sads

we hate stats bro

[vague cape]

socket is like

20k dps or some shit

1% but mennnn

i want the outlaw wep smh

[vivid vessel]

1%?

a socket

what type of socket you using cuh

10k main stat or what

you wilding

[fathom bramble]

a socket isn't even 1% of a stat

[leaden folio]

yo time trial fiesta

20% avoidance

every gear have avoidance lmao

[vivid vessel]

this is my socket @vague cape

[vague cape]

im simming st

also for sin stats are real xd

18k with a shit gem

better ones produce slightly better results around 20-21

[vivid vessel]

well you are in outlaw channel

so why are you simming sin

im confused

Also I see the red dot

[vague cape]

bc original thing is about

gem for main spec

vs

outlaw wep

[vivid vessel]

Low precision sim

So it could be 1% less kekw

Who knows

[vague cape]

ran the sim like

10 times

this is the lowest result

[teal wing]

Imagine simming in 2025

[wraith cosmos]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[vivid vessel]

Or just run the gem alone

So you know the actual numberb

Xdd

Instead of running it in low accuracy 10 times bozo

[wraith cosmos]

question should i use ks with max cp and supercharge?

or just normal max combo point\

[vivid vessel]

you treat it as any other finisher

[vague cape]

sorry, was taking pointers from ur between the eyes aim

[vivid vessel]

wtf

[vague cape]

@vivid vessel here u go, copied loktark's BTEs instead

litterally 10k dps hm

[vivid vessel]

huge

so its not 1%

noob

[glass yew]

Our mastery is totaly bs**t?
Someone try to pump it?

[vivid vessel]

its better in aoe

but ye

not really good

[vivid vessel]

with deft

[fathom bramble]

do you know how much better deft actually makes it?

preferably as a %

[vivid vessel]

i have no idea

but i think my trinket doesnt win as ho for example

hoc

while it does as kir

in slice i mean

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ikcTQLD4qocdwbLfkxfgma see

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5KSkBdzy2x7q7ahMWPUydF

was the last time i did a big sim to compare both

for ho the trinket is nowehre to be seen

well its here

[fathom bramble]

now I don't even need to open the game for a HO/KIR profile

just steal these for a quick sim

[vivid vessel]

tbf there is also the fact my ho sim gets slightly more mast baseline

cause of this ring

[fathom bramble]

I'm just curious of the ballpark value gain from deft

[vivid vessel]

ye

[fathom bramble]

like when mastery is worth half as much as vers surely deft doesn't raise it to the point of being an okay stat

or even a non-bad one

[vivid vessel]

Nah probably not

But it probably goes from being under haste to bring above haste

[glass yew]

Hm... in d.slice my rogue sims around 4.200+

[vivid vessel]

I have seen some of my slice sim prefer me to recraft vers mast instead of Crit vers also @fathom bramble

[fathom bramble]

interesting

[vivid vessel]

Haven't really checked since I just recrafted everything to haste so now it's not comparable

But back when I had sub gear it was that way

[fathom bramble]

trickster starting at 100% crit on BTE during RP certainly doesn't help

[vivid vessel]

but it was close to neutral shit tho

[fathom bramble]

between your ho and kir it's only ~10% better

I wonder if losing SS is costing most of what Deft adds to mastery value

mastery is also worth a bit more for trickster in general, as expected

[vivid vessel]

why

ah cause coins

[fathom bramble]

the damage bonuses from trickster actually interact with mastery

compared to coins

[vivid vessel]

Ye

[fathom bramble]

KS is a lot of extr attempts to trigger it

etc

but that's also on sets with very little mastery

[vivid vessel]

bout 2 time the amount of a normal finisher i guess

[fathom bramble]

which makes it almost look like an okay stat

[jagged trail]

Hey all! Quick question. When you say this build requires 18% to 20% haste, do you mean i have to have that percentage of haste without other people's buff or my own adrenaline rush buff?
Say for instance i'm in a battleground or dungeon, and i get buffed and somehow I go from 13% haste (which i have now unbuffed) to 20% with teams buffs. Will i still be able to use this build?

[wraith cosmos]

got killed on first boss cinderbrew on sc ks so ig i just treat like normal finisher as u said

and fuck this spell from depth of my heart

[vivid vessel]

well that would mean using sc on it

you dont try to avoid that

but ye

use it at low cp if its dangerous

or idk

pray

its a shti spell

cant do much about it

[wraith cosmos]

yeah

im just crying

at this point

[vivid vessel]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/killing-spree-fix-concept/2088489

here give this thread visibility

[wraith cosmos]

its like a dream

[wintry solar]

The worst part about having a dream is waking up

[wraith cosmos]

haha i prisoned boomi and unholy in +7 ml and cooked them

im learning

yippie

[lavish siren]

fix for pve only would be great

[vivid vessel]

Why

What does it add for pvp

It seems mega toxic in pvp to me

For the guy against I mean

Which I guess is good it's strong

But I wouldn't want to play against some guy Perma tping everywhere for nor reason

[jagged trail]

maybe?

[jovial sedge]

!haste

[ornate heath]

Total stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush lowers your GCD based on it, down to 0.8s at 25% haste.

The KIR build wants 18-20% haste from rating, because its only haste buff is from Alacrity.

The HO build meets this requirement with 8-10% haste from rating because of Take 'em by Surprise, but the new HO + Supercharger build continues to like Haste just because of energy, so you will have to sim. Your sim may settle for KIR-levels of haste (~18%) or slightly lower.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use.
You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[north ember]

idk if doing something wrong, but i literally hit a single 5 buff in an entire dungeon, and it's not the first time it's happened xd

[cobalt mist]

you cant run the HO build if you dont have 4 tier set

[tropic zephyr]

Repost it on eu it says I need to have a lvl 10 char to post

[north ember]

im nearly 668 with 4 set, still happens xd

[slate plaza]

Did you roll on cooldown

[jagged trail]

I appreciate the answer. but it dot answer my direct question of: 1 If i'm unbuffed in dornogal vs if i'm in a BG. For instance in dornogal i'm sitting at 14%, but when i enter a bg i am at 20% (msot of the times) and sometimes more.

[slate plaza]

Stealth

[jagged trail]

?

ah

in stealth

[north ember]

yes, always, i just seem to always roll a 1 buff from 2 or 3, then sometimes i roll a 5 buff 4 times in a row and nothing for the rest of the run

[jagged trail]

:/

[slate plaza]

Your prolly having negative placebo

It’s a lot easier to remeber the times things went wrong and you got bad rng and got frustrated than it is when things went well

Assuming you’re doing the rotation properly and have 4 set could of been a bad run

[weary fog]

do u run cto?

[north ember]

yep

[jagged trail]

So, in stealth i have this.

25% haste, and outside stealth i have

[vivid vessel]

!stats

[ornate heath]

Total stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush lowers your GCD based on it, down to 0.8s at 25% haste.

The KIR build wants 18-20% haste from rating, because its only haste buff is from Alacrity.

The HO build meets this requirement with 8-10% haste from rating because of Take 'em by Surprise, but the new HO + Supercharger build continues to like Haste just because of energy, so you will have to sim. Your sim may settle for KIR-levels of haste (~18%) or slightly lower.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use.
You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[vivid vessel]

i think this is mostly clear if you read it all

right

[jagged trail]

So, for what I understood, i need to have at least 18% haste out of stealth and unbuffed. correct?

[slate plaza]

For Kir correct

[vivid vessel]

for ho idk it can be lower

sim it

[jagged trail]

I just do pvp

[slate plaza]

My ho what’s more hate than kir

[vivid vessel]

well

i have no idea about pvp

tho i doubt its much different

#pvp

[jagged trail]

Right.

[vivid vessel]

there is a pvp channel

[jagged trail]

Sure, but, my question should also apply to pve. My question: Do i NEED to have at least 18% haste unbuffed and out of stelth for that build to work? ATM stealthed i have 25% haste UNBUFFED and out of stealth I have 13% UNBUFFED. In a group situation i reach at least 20% haste UBUFFED and OUT OF STEALTH. Now...Would that build work i nthese conditions?

[vivid vessel]

idk what build you are playing

[weary fog]

ur talking about kir?

[cobalt mist]

PVP conditions tend to be vastly different on account of many talents just flat out functioning differently there, most of us here don't play PVP and don't want to give you bad advice based on potential differences we aren't aware of

im pretty sure KIR doesn't work at all in PVP because of the constant downtime from being cc'd and out of melee

[vivid vessel]

Well kir also doesn't get haste in stealth do I'm a bit confused

Cause you linked kir build earlier

[jagged trail]

This build

[vivid vessel]

But then are talking about haste in stealth and pvp

Ok but this build doesn't get haste inside stealth tho

[jagged trail]

I'm trying to find the most dmg single target build.

[vivid vessel]

So are you sure you are using this build

[cobalt mist]

don't use this build in pvp

[jagged trail]

I "wanted" to use this build because is the first recommended. Right? :S

[cobalt mist]

use murlok.io to find out what your spec is using

[jagged trail]

Alright!

Fair enough!

[cobalt mist]

rn most outlaw players in pvp are using the HO/Fatebound build with Supercharger

[jagged trail]

Maybe i didn't get my point across. Looking for the most damaging single target burst build for outlaw!

[cobalt mist]

which does take take em by surprise and as a result only needs 10% unbuffed haste (but benefits in consistency for having more)

[jagged trail]

THANKs!!!

[vivid vessel]

We don't burst

[jagged trail]

"burst"

like, the most damage per second possible to a player.

[vivid vessel]

Well

Idk it's probably ho fatebound

[jagged trail]

So, something more like this?

[cobalt mist]

generally for gearing all you need to do is take every vers/haste pvp piece that you can

[vivid vessel]

That's what outlaw uses in pvp I think

But that's not the right channel to ask tbh

Cause we are all clueless about pvp

#pvp

[jagged trail]

Fair enough guys! I appreciate the insight

But I think I understood the build that I should go with!

😄

[quartz patio]

!log

[eager sundial]

for trickster kir is the only difference in rotation ks and coup usage or is there other differences from fatebound kir?

[somber cobalt]

@vivid vessel ho build need only 10 prc hast ?

[gaunt phoenix]

You hold vanish based on ks cd

If KS cd < 20s or so then you dont vanish

unless you need to for ar

[vivid vessel]

Would be the minimum ye, can ask for more which you will need to sim to figure out

[gaunt phoenix]

DHs have a cooldown that scales with haste ?

that sounds fun

[north ember]

is RTB weighted somehow for execute btw? i seem to roll 5 buffs most conistently at boss / pack being at 10% HP xd

[gaunt phoenix]

no its not

[merry harness]

This would actaully be kinda fire

[gaunt phoenix]

How would that even work

rtb is not a targeted ability

[merry harness]

Yeah no it is very cooked

[gaunt phoenix]

lol

[merry harness]

Execute is just nice in general

Always feels good on assa

[north ember]

https://tenor.com/view/hunger-games-ducey-gif-22438470

[eager sundial]

same rolling rules though? the ho reroll on cd is actually miserable might try kir trickster to cutdown on that misery

[gaunt phoenix]

rtb is the same

[sleek bobcat]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[mystic rapids]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[vivid vessel]

how do you mean scale with haste

[gaunt phoenix]

Like their death sweep cooldown is literally lowered by haste

i think

[vivid vessel]

ah ye

but

i tought that was most specs in the game

[gaunt phoenix]

Not gcd, but cd

[vivid vessel]

ww was also last that in sl i think

yes

[gaunt phoenix]

idk

i never knew of this mechanic

outlaw brain

[vivid vessel]

i mean idk how common that is but its also a thing for ww

idk i havent played that many specs tho

[glass mortar]

it would be pretty useless for law anyway

[vivid vessel]

Actually enhance as well

[glass mortar]

like 90% of our cding is from cdr

[vivid vessel]

I remember

[glass mortar]

almost every spec in the game has hasted cds

[vivid vessel]

I mean that's why haste is so good for most specs right

[glass mortar]

that and do stuff + get resources faster

i mean i think the hasted cds most specs have are a pretty minor part of hastes scaling tbh

[gaunt phoenix]

wtf

[glass mortar]

im trying to think of any that dont have at least one

its probably a caster if it exists

[vivid vessel]

I think it's mostly noticeable for specs that have small cds

Like havoc, enhance we

Ww

Bro I guess

Wait

Wasn't GS

One sec

when it was still a 30s cd

[valid kindle]

I think rogue is just the odd one out with no hasted cds

[vivid vessel]

wasnt this our only hasted cd

and it wasnt on rb

or smth

[glass mortar]

pretty sure it was always on cdr

or at least in the last 5 years

dont think it was hasted

[vivid vessel]

nvm yes

[valid kindle]

was thinking maybe frost mage but I think blizzard is

[glass mortar]

we didnt spam it because it was on the gcd

[vivid vessel]

idk i remember a spell that had a green cd

but i might be coooked

[proven ocean]

Zac ur a banana

[blissful zinc]

If i swap to HO build and instantly do a significant amount higher dps than KIR does that mean im ass?

[gaunt phoenix]

maybe not good at kir

[vivid vessel]

????

[gaunt phoenix]

but you dont need to learn kir anyway

[jolly geyser]

[glass mortar]

if it was anything it would have been blade rush or some nonsense

when was the last time someone specced blade rush

check that

i dont think we have any tho

would be kinda poinless with our cdr

[blissful zinc]

I did more aoe and more ST I didnt wanna admit it but i guess I was buns at KIR 💔

[blissful zinc]

Bro like 90% of trickster plays around KS wow dev team def hates outlaw players

[glass mortar]

huh

[wraith cosmos]

is it my bad luck or all my rolls are bad cuz WA is telling me all the time that its bad

[blissful zinc]

Which build u playin

[wraith cosmos]

trickster ho

[blissful zinc]

HO or kir?

HO rolls everything except 5 buffs if im not mistaken

For supercharger

[gaunt phoenix]

its your weakaura perhaps putting unnecessary emphasis on "bad" rolls

Yes the HO build rerolls a lot, but it's not a bad thing idk

Supercharger makes rolling good

[blissful zinc]

Does the WA grief u sometimes? I roll “yellow” framed buffs sometimes and it doesnt keep them for soem reason

[gaunt phoenix]

not that weakaura

[glass mortar]

do they get overwritten?

[vivid vessel]

thats not possible if you mean my weak aura

[blissful zinc]

Ye its not yours

[glass mortar]

other then a few cases where bosses can do weird stuff and reset the container tracking (like sprocket respawning) that shouldnt ever happen

ah well then it might just be a bad WA

[vivid vessel]

who stole the colors

[glass mortar]

use zacs

[blissful zinc]

I am playing kush ui 😭

[vivid vessel]

ye he did

i think he just uses mine tho

[desert tendon]

Im using mine

[blissful zinc]

I like the visuals in his ui but his outlaw tracking is buns

[desert tendon]

Bozo

[vivid vessel]

well kush doesnt play outlaw lol

[blissful zinc]

Ye

[desert tendon]

Doesnt play rogue in fact

[blissful zinc]

Unfortunate

Dont wanna change whole ui for outlaw only

[desert tendon]

Unfortunate do play outlaw

And what à clip Farmer she is

[blissful zinc]

💀

[desert tendon]

I ve seen New ks clips from her

[wary wind]

is there a way to have the circlet ring to have certain "profiles" where it equips / unequips gems based on talents, spec etc

[gaunt phoenix]

naw

[blissful zinc]

Dont bother u will replace it in no time

For outlaw at least

Do you guys think outlaw will be good with corruptions?

[wraith cosmos]

got it fix it

[hybrid crown]

That narcissus addon has a UI for slotting gems but doesn't have presets

[novel socket]

with what

[hybrid crown]

Kinda like how it worked for mop remix, just no presets

[gaunt phoenix]

big vers thing

ring even

[blissful zinc]

Anything that doesnt have mastery 💀

[novel socket]

for me circlet still sims higher than two vers rings

[gaunt phoenix]

Well the top ring with vers mastery can beat it

[desert tendon]

Mastery aint bad

Its just no good

[blissful zinc]

Im allergic to mastery

[desert tendon]

Same

[blissful zinc]

Im playing crit haste ring instead

[desert tendon]

But this season

[blissful zinc]

• haste verse ring

[desert tendon]

I ve 26k mastery

Sub prog ya Know ya know

[blissful zinc]

Bruh i have played with 40% mastery for a while

I was suicidal

[novel socket]

mastery useless

[blissful zinc]

Same started sub

[novel socket]

[blissful zinc]

This season

Then my friend kept me bullying me into playing assassination

Now it sin/outlaw

[vivid vessel]

so its bad

even vers is bad censi

[desert tendon]

I mean

Currentlu

Outlaw design is trash

If u ask me

Im losing hope rn

[vivid vessel]

Meh

Gameplay wise it has been peaking for a few tiers now

[late swallow]

bro even the law vets are dooming

it's actually over

[desert tendon]

My Last Light of hope is

[vivid vessel]

The damage profile is one of the worse we ever had tho

And no acro

And killing spree

And hero talents

[blissful zinc]

When i saw zac in assassination channel i shed a tear

[vivid vessel]

But outside of that

[vivid vessel]

Don't worry lol

[desert tendon]

I hope they dont give rogue tuning patches cuz they prep lot of stuff

[vivid vessel]

I only played sin on mygzee

[desert tendon]

But like

Lot of stuff

Like

[vivid vessel]

Won't be playing qssa this tier

[desert tendon]

Tuning gameplay uncap

[vivid vessel]

Imma just pug keys as outlaw all season

Something like that

Maybe I find people to play with

Probably not

[blissful zinc]

I lowkey wanna see u try the bleed build and see how fast u fall asleep 💀

[desert tendon]

I Want outlaw s3 df

Or outlaw s3 sl

Wait

[vivid vessel]

I would really like to have a meele comp team to push with every season like wox

[desert tendon]

Actually

[vivid vessel]

He is very lucky

[desert tendon]

S3 is alwayd big for outlaw

[blissful zinc]

U probably the only outlaw getting invited to pugs in the region

[desert tendon]

Need s3 tww

[dawn talon]

bleed build is actually probably the most boring thing

ive played in wow ever

[late swallow]

wox, squish, banshers, novic, and ortemist sending each other good morning texts with kissy faces and hearts

[desert tendon]

Then dont play bleed

Its not even good

[late swallow]

"can't wait to play later <3"

[vivid vessel]

I think I'm kinda lucky that quite a few people In the high key sphere are starting to know me now

[karmic fox]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[desert tendon]

[blissful zinc]

I have seen pugs forming the same comp it was nice to see

[vivid vessel]

It's easier to get into key than it was in the past for me

[dawn talon]

i got pestered about playing it

so i played a few keys

and like damn

[blissful zinc]

U have earned it

Us randoms have to suffer even with sin to get into a key 😢

[wary wind]

all outlaw needs is strong execute damage to give it a damage profile niche in raid

[blissful zinc]

So i just que with one of my fotm friends

[wary wind]

call it firing squad talent or somethin

[late swallow]

i don't think outlaw needs execute tbh

[desert tendon]

Outlaw just needs love

Fk 7 cp

[blissful zinc]

They need to fix KS and soft uncap the spec

[desert tendon]

Fk perma adr

Fk ho

Fk ks

[gaunt phoenix]

if any nearby target is below 35% ace always resets

[late swallow]

5cp with tuning would be kinda sick though

[gaunt phoenix]

[desert tendon]

Bring back sl outlaw

I beg

[jolly geyser]

remove kir and ho

[late swallow]

having omega cps is kinda lame

[blissful zinc]

I miss BFA where ace actually hit like a shotgun

[desert tendon]

Bring back bte stun

Bring back er

[blissful zinc]

Now u click it 19 times and compete with tank

[vivid vessel]

ye cause its so viable in raid with litteraly 0 niche

[late swallow]

how would execute fix that more than just some tuning?

[vivid vessel]

its a niche

why did sin get played on mugzee

over sub

[late swallow]

it's already sin's niche though

[vivid vessel]

doesnt have to be

[late swallow]

you want two rogue execute specs?

[vivid vessel]

and we could just be big executer

I mean sin has 40 niches

we could remove exec from them it woumdnt change a thing

[late swallow]

give outlaw devoker niche

reverse execute

[vivid vessel]

but i also dont see what the issue is

[late swallow]

so we do 0 damage when the boss is low health

[vivid vessel]

to have 2 specs with exec

[vestal notch]

Sin doesnt have st in dungeons, everything else it does

[jolly geyser]

bte sounds like a execution ability

[vivid vessel]

well lok also mentionned something different than execute

but similar

just combat time stuffs

like kezan trinket you know

[late swallow]

vai has yuge outlaw cooks

[vivid vessel]

so you would ramp up in later fights in prog

its a bit similar to execute but knida better

[late swallow]

what happens on farm then

you just get worse over the course of tier?

[vivid vessel]

you dont need a niche to play outlaw in farm tho

[wary wind]

tbh i will always play outlaw because the ace up your sleeve sound is my favorite in the entire game and nothing comes close, but some type of damage profile niche in raid would elevate the spec a lot. having a higher soft cap for bf would help a lot in m+ but outside of a few big pulls outlaw is still really good m+ spec due to insane tankiness and defensives always being up

[late swallow]

i'm sorry I'm just not convinced!!!!!!!

[vivid vessel]

i mean me neither

but you are saying outlaw dont need execute

when outlaw is litteraly useless

every tier

and thats in most part because it doesnt have anything

[wintry solar]

Give outlaw battleshout :)

[vivid vessel]

again why was sin played on mug

cause you wanted exec

[lofty moat]

Guys guys bad news

🫠

[blissful zinc]

Give outlaw back shots

[gaunt phoenix]

scp memes in my outlaw chat?

[blissful zinc]

Ace from behind does 200% extra dmg

[late swallow]

the positional shit is kinda cringe at this point in the game

[wary wind]

in fact outlaw is even more troll because it demands constant uptime and that doesn't always vibe with mythic raid

[lofty moat]

That explain how deep in the shit I am

[late swallow]

the amount of baits you have to do in specific directions

[wintry solar]

Positional abilities are DEAD

[blissful zinc]

If u hit 3 backshots in a row u go into “Freaky Time” and get 25% extra crit

[wintry solar]

GONE

[desert tendon]

Outlaw needs à total rework

No cap

[gaunt phoenix]

it does?

i like crackshot

[vivid vessel]

for people that dont play it i guess

i think outlaw is super fun rn

it just need to be good

[blissful zinc]

Facts

[late swallow]

outlaw is super enjoyable but there's no payoff atm

[wintry solar]

I'd forgive dreadblade/acro/etc removal if they started from scratch

[blissful zinc]

U should be rewarded for 300 apm

[glass mortar]

u dont get rewarded for apm tho

blizzard doesnt tune classes based on their difficulty

[desert tendon]

Yea gameplay i hâte ks

[old gull]

I tried sub on the tourney realm and idk how people play that spec. Just feels so weird

[desert tendon]

But gamepnay is good

Just no burst

[glass mortar]

outlaw could use some love because it has a lot of pain points that makes it tough to play

[desert tendon]

Needs high uptime

[rustic lotus]

Just give us acro and make us able to hit up to 12 targets. Spec FIXED

[desert tendon]

Cant work in nowadays wow

I dont see outlaw being méta in prog ever

With this design

[blissful zinc]

Its an incentive for people to play the spec, there is no point in sweating and playing outlaw if u have to play almost perfectly to be viable

[gaunt phoenix]

It hasn't since BFA

[wary wind]

outlaw is very fun - the mobility of the spec and cdr of defensives is addicting, just needs to have a hero talent tree not based around a spell from wotlk and more viable in terms of damage profile

[rustic lotus]

Also give us Cloak being reduced by float like a butterfly

[vivid vessel]

we arent even trying tho

[glass mortar]

the incentive to play outlaw should be you like the theme or u like high apm

[desert tendon]

maybe if it was the king at 2-3 target

[vivid vessel]

we have complained about the energy thing since the rework

[desert tendon]

it would be good on some situations

[vivid vessel]

and they have done nothing

[desert tendon]

irc oab

[vivid vessel]

and this hurts outlaw uptime stuffs big time for example

[desert tendon]

zac

imagine if rn

they descide they had enough of crackshot

[glass mortar]

i mean we are handicapped a bit by design but people like that design

[gaunt phoenix]

ye outlaw has always been borderline justifiable on some serious prog and the occasional boss where it does really well

[desert tendon]

they nerfed it to the ground so we play something else

[late swallow]

cloak float would be based af

[desert tendon]

what becomes outlaw?

[vivid vessel]

also i think precise cut

can be outlaw niche

[glass mortar]

PC is very offensive

as a talent

[vivid vessel]

if its like in a higher gate

[desert tendon]

it could be

but

[glass mortar]

make it baseline

[vivid vessel]

and tuned higher

[desert tendon]

need wayyyy higher tuning

[glass mortar]

thats cursed

[wintry solar]

This will happen eventually btw. It won't stay forever.

[desert tendon]

imagine if outlaw was doing 100% bf dam in 2 and 3 target situation

there

imagine

[vivid vessel]

Like just make outlaw the king of low target cleave

Actual king

[desert tendon]

how cool it could ve been on oab

[glass mortar]

i agree but why do we need to give up all our st for it

[desert tendon]

that s even what they said

[glass mortar]

PC is deeply cursed

awful talent

make it baseline

[desert tendon]

when they changed the cap of some classes

they said we do that so hardcap classes shines in lower target count

but fun fact

[vivid vessel]

See how Tim was complaining about pc being weird giving us 100%+ cleave on 2 targets

[desert tendon]

they failed

[blissful zinc]

Outlaw not allowed to be op

[vivid vessel]

That's not weird

[late swallow]

weran is here hi weran 🙂

[vivid vessel]

That's what outlaw should be about

[glass mortar]

gm som

[desert tendon]

no cap

classic combat rogue

is king at 2 target

make outlaw king at 2 targets

[dark steeple]

outlaw needs to be #1 all the time

[desert tendon]

maybe even 3

[blissful zinc]

Blizzard saw what happened in BFA and blacklisted the spec

[dark steeple]

no matter what

[vivid vessel]

Just buff PC by another % cause why not, put it up there in the gate of all the useless talents so it's easy to take

[dark steeple]

other specs and classed dont exist

screw em

[wintry solar]

Finally someone who thinks like me

[vivid vessel]

And give outlaw some funnel also

[late swallow]

classic wow BF was based

[desert tendon]

about damage profile

[wary wind]

what happened dwith outlaw in bfa i didnt play it then

[desert tendon]

with no burst

[vivid vessel]

We shouldn't be the worse spec in the game at prior damage that's silly

[desert tendon]

outlaw should always be in the top

maybe not #1

[glass mortar]

outlaw was uncapped at the start of BfA (And for the whole expac? idr)

[vivid vessel]

and a lil soft cap no cap

[glass mortar]

and it did alot of damage

[wintry solar]

Which one? The toggle or the CD?

[desert tendon]

but on the top somewhere there in 7mn fights

cd

classic bf was 2mn cd

20s of cleave on 1 target

[wintry solar]

Yeah I like that one

[desert tendon]

100% of your dam

[dark steeple]

always #1

no question

[desert tendon]

and attack speed and energfy regen

[wintry solar]

Preach lettuce

[desert tendon]

and that stuff combined with old adr

[wintry solar]

Imagine paying a sub and your spec isn't #1

[blissful zinc]

What happened to blizzard listening to the community? 😢

[desert tendon]

they listen to the community

[wintry solar]

Community group thing

[desert tendon]

they did classic wow

[zealous plinth]

Tbh I‘d be happy if they work on killing Spree or not force us to take it

[desert tendon]

they did sod wow

[gaunt phoenix]

Outlaw was just tuned really well mid bfa

it was the same shit, hardly used in raid

yes it was uncapped but we didnt burst anyway, being uncapped was just nice

[vivid vessel]

honestly censi

[wintry solar]

Also wits

[blissful zinc]

So 10 more years of complaining should do the trick

[desert tendon]

i mean

[vivid vessel]

i think you think a few issues and outlaw is banger already

[desert tendon]

again

i ve no hope

outlaw needs tuning AND a bit of rework

100% adr is no good for the game

[wintry solar]

Uhuh bad

Whip it

[desert tendon]

being capped is ok if you were just doing double or triple the dps or other classes in 4 and less targets

[wraith cosmos]

this is my log on gally 20min ago https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/vf12xwrj46BqMYGW?fight=8&type=damage-done&source=22
this is my log on mug ze https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/vf12xwrj46BqMYGW?fight=7&type=damage-done&source=22 so can some one take a look at it and just tell me what am i missing ?

[late swallow]

yo can you not Pain Sup yourself?

[wraith cosmos]

like need to do more ks or im missing rtb

[late swallow]

am I cooked

[desert tendon]

and also, i ve to add it again. No acro on outlaw sucks. Ks sucks. Haste tax sucks

all these above

must be worked on asap

like

in 2 weeks i hope

in the next patch note :)

my last hopes :)

[dark steeple]

they have not changed the haste tax at all yet?

💀

[glass mortar]

of course u can

[dark steeple]

its been nearly a year

[gaunt phoenix]

!log @wraith cosmos

[zealous plinth]

False hopes I bet

[glass mortar]

probably looking at rework level of changes to get that removed

[wraith cosmos]

ty solo

[wintry solar]

You need to give yourself more time or you're just setting yourself up.

[glass mortar]

just accept gearing as outlaw is gunna be a nightmare every season

[late swallow]

bruh I legit can't

[glass mortar]

for this expac at least

[desert tendon]

https://youtu.be/NM5wCzJ8tjQ?si=t91g5MjF05IF8yxL&t=56 @vivid vessel look at the timestamp

growl being growl

[dark steeple]

yeh i've not played TWW at all, im just in the poe channel here nowadays

[desert tendon]

this bestof is actually 2mn of growl only

[late swallow]

is this macro cooked or something?

[wintry solar]

Poe is a game I like to play super casually when it rains and I got Netflix on in the background.

[desert tendon]

tbf i already retiered of outaw, no fun anymore no numbers no nothing

so

[wintry solar]

Fair

[desert tendon]

what is this cook

why do u use spellward icon first of all

[glass mortar]

what the fuk is target = self

idk maybe that works

[wintry solar]

I tried to play casually but it's not a casual friendly spec

[glass mortar]

just put ur name there

[desert tendon]

Secondly why do u use a capital S on suppression

[late swallow]

it's a based icon

[desert tendon]

thirdly just mouseover yourself idk

[wintry solar]

It's a proper noun

[late swallow]

the self thing wasn't working

[dark steeple]

cant you just do @player or is that for targetted ground stuff only

[late swallow]

I swear I thought that shit worked

[desert tendon]

#showtooltip
/cast [@player]Spell

[glass mortar]

thats for ground targeted stuff

[desert tendon]

use that

dawg

[late swallow]

oh it was @player instead of self

[glass mortar]

wont work on pain sup

[late swallow]

fuck me

i just put my name fuck it whatever

it works now

[desert tendon]

target = your current target

or a name

[late swallow]

/cast Kiss [target=Weran]

[glass mortar]

i wrote the macro for u

but u got it so nvm

[wintry solar]

Hawt

[blissful zinc]

Hard agree

[glass mortar]

#showtooltip
/cast [target=gooner] Pain Suppression

theres my version incase u need

anyway enjoy

[desert tendon]

#showtooltip BadManners
/s Bozo
/emote Sit [Target, dead, harm = Tomelvis]

[dark steeple]

[late swallow]

wtf this worked too

[desert tendon]

naaaaaaah

that s too much

https://youtu.be/NM5wCzJ8tjQ?si=M1zurZr2zSHQ_0qB&t=74 forgot to invite a healer after starting the key

ok

bye outlaws

i m going back to my mage now

https://x.com/_Reloe/status/1912833149953781834?t=S8OoiVWCA2pBbVsMRfCN4w&s=19

Reloe (@_Reloe) on X

many already suspected guilds buying gallywix lockouts when they saw him being significantly easier than bandit&mugzee and now it's happening. Going forward Hall of Fame (and maybe also Cutting Edge) should require killing all bosses instead of just the final boss.

X · Apr 17, 2025, 11:38 AM

so

people buy gallywix lockout

for hof

[wraith cosmos]

xDDD

[late swallow]

is pretty crazy

gally is taking less pulls than stix or sprocket even

AND they still nerfed him even more this last week

[wraith cosmos]

jesus however im thinking about its like the game have no management above it its just pure trollling

specially whenever i press my ks

[desert tendon]

https://youtu.be/NM5wCzJ8tjQ?si=aO3qOnfyxx96lzJD&t=391 @vivid vessel here have a new ks clip to your book

people really hating outlaw now lmao

[wraith cosmos]

noted

[vivid vessel]

• fix energy out of adr so dropping it doesnt feel like absolute garbage (this should be more than just increasing energy regen btw, increasing base max energy would cover the bad rng moments)
• soft cap so its not an issue in m+ anymore
• i think pc could be our niche, very simple, buff it a bit and put it in the gate above so its easy to take
• fix ks obvioulsy
• we can ignore fatebound for a bit if we just make trickster meta for a while, anyone would be happy about that anyway, less work for blizz and trickster is just a better damage profile for us
• add a line to uuh so that while in subterfuge you have adr (this fix the loopy part about uuh), I think this thing could be very big for uptime reliance since now instead of needing to farm vanish back while in adr, you can still vanish after adr dropped to get back in the loop

Honestly do you really think these changes are much, mage get these kind of things litteraly every week

[late swallow]

[vivid vessel]

yeye

dont care

[desert tendon]

zac

[vivid vessel]

i could fix outlaw somnius

who are you

[desert tendon]

i totally agree with u

i dont even have to read that

[late swallow]

you're shouting into the void bro

legit not healthy

[desert tendon]

we all here know how to fix outlaw

but they aint listenning

[vivid vessel]

No

[desert tendon]

Realz would pop here and read that and works on couple stuff

but now

it s just void

[vivid vessel]

I just disagree with the "outlaw need a complete rework" people

Where to me you fix outlaw with like

How many is this

[late swallow]

i agree with your disagreement

[vivid vessel]

4 little changes

Like

[late swallow]

outlaw doesn't feel a full rework

just some tweaks

[vivid vessel]

Maybe it's more than a week to week change

But it's like

A .5 type of change

It's legit nothing work bro

4 changes

So small

[desert tendon]

yea but

[vivid vessel]

Most are legit just numbers tuning

[desert tendon]

it s a lot

half the workforce of blizzard on mage

iykyk

[vivid vessel]

How.is it a lot

[desert tendon]

cuh

[vivid vessel]

Yeye

[somber cobalt]

what change needed ? @vivid vessel

[lofty moat]

I started doing this 2 days ago + 200 RIO 👌

[vivid vessel]

bro necroed a message from 5 dasy ago

gg

[hybrid crown]

Wox was able to fix KS in a cave with a box of scraps!!!

[vivid vessel]

I mean this also

like we know how easy ks could be to fix

jsut do it idk

ideally you do a bit more

like allow off gcds during it

make it lower duration etc

[gaunt phoenix]

best we can is 6 months of backlog and QA

[vivid vessel]

but like honestly

ks isnt that hard to fix

[lofty moat]

Message be like

[vivid vessel]

we gotta stop acting like we need a team of 20 devs working 24/7 on outlaw for 5 weeks to fix the spec

we legit just need an intern for an afternoon

bro

[late swallow]

blizzard just needs to let zac remote access into one of their computers

[vivid vessel]

i would do it for free

[wraith cosmos]

+++

[vivid vessel]

i would pay them even

just let me a weekend

[pearl trout]

nice solutions, now drop another "3% damage increased on all abilities for Mage" patch

[still matrix]

Fix it or you know what...

Actually JK i dont want guy to mute me again

just a joke

aha

ingame btw

[late swallow]

mods make this guy go through the thick of it

[still matrix]

[vivid vessel]

https://tenor.com/view/discord-memes-ksi-thick-of-it-mods-discord-mod-gif-2830572923502966674

[lofty moat]

Git push origin fix/Outlaw --force -m "EZ FIXE" give him a week (pretty sure blizzard are pushing it by google drive and forgot a fix somewhere)

[vivid vessel]

they swap hard drives

[lofty moat]

"Working on my computer"

[vivid vessel]

how do you think every few tiers we get bugs that have been fixed 5 years ago back in the game

[wintry solar]

I want a harder hitting between the eyes

[vivid vessel]

and the time we got mop stuffs in retails

taht was wild wasnt it

how does that even happen

[lofty moat]

[desert tendon]

my favorite

is when bf does no damage in raid

[tropic zephyr]

You made my phone crash going up 3 months worth of message gg

[desert tendon]

suddenly

for no reasons

[vivid vessel]

nah

censi

my favorite is the sub bug

[desert tendon]

zac do u remember S4 SL ?

2 first weeks

[vivid vessel]

you know how like

[desert tendon]

of outlaw doing 80% less dam than intended?

[lofty moat]

No problem, use it to crash someone's phone 👌

[desert tendon]

[vivid vessel]

eeery 3 week they break sec tech again

[opal raven]

yo whats poppin

[vivid vessel]

and it doesnt log for sub

this is so funny to me

[proven ocean]

What

Its bugged again?

[vivid vessel]

how does that happen litteraly every few weeks

[vivid vessel]

not yet

[desert tendon]

zac i ve to send you some kpop

[vivid vessel]

i think soon tho

[desert tendon]

to fill your playlist

i discovered bangers

[vivid vessel]

its been fine for 5 weeks in a row i think

[vivid vessel]

ok

i deont listen to a lot of kpop btw

[desert tendon]

ik

[vivid vessel]

just a few that i really like

[desert tendon]

but i ve noticed your aespa

[vivid vessel]

Yes

[desert tendon]

and some babymonster i think? I dont even remember but i know u have some

[late swallow]

wait what's the sub bug?

sectech isn't getting logged or something?

[vivid vessel]

Don't think so

[desert tendon]

zac being a gigachad outlaw

but zac also being

https://tenor.com/view/karina-aespa-kittyheart-cute-gif-11741627677882445065

[vivid vessel]

Logged ad it's own entity

Happens litteraly once a tier at least

[late swallow]

lmao

[vivid vessel]

Keeps happening

Idk how

[late swallow]

nightmare shit bro

[vivid vessel]

Like I would think after a while they would have figured it out

[proven ocean]

Wdym cuh

Shes hot

[desert tendon]

dude is shitalking aespa

i m blocking you rn

[late swallow]

everything is artificial about her bro

[proven ocean]

Who the fuck is aespa

[late swallow]

she's made of the same shit bionicles are made out of

[desert tendon]

this kpop group

[proven ocean]

Well cuh

[desert tendon]

oh yea you have some blackpink also i remember now zac

[vivid vessel]

Ye

Aespa blackpink and

[proven ocean]

I dont mind fucking a bionicle or whatever the fuck that is

[vivid vessel]

Xg

[wintry solar]

Did bro imply bionicle isn't cool?

[glass mortar]

every1 loved bionicles tho?

[desert tendon]

uea have pretty girls also

[rotund zodiac]

I like all of them

[desert tendon]

You guys kinda like thick black hair

[vivid vessel]

Dreamcatcher aswell

[desert tendon]

and ngl it s hot

[late swallow]

yeah but they're all covered up bro how can you tell

[proven ocean]

Ur not gonna buy an iphone and say nah this shit isnt real its made of wires and metals

Just use the iphone cuh

[desert tendon]

LMAO

Zeross just buying woman like an iphone

confirmed

gg

[proven ocean]

If the girl has some plastic in her im sticking my plastic inside of it too no cap my G

[desert tendon]

get canceled bozo

[vivid vessel]

[late swallow]

i don't need more microplastics in my life bro

[desert tendon]

somnius

imma reveal you my wife face rn

are u ready?

[wintry solar]

A dead robot

Robot skull

[glass mortar]

i hate to tell you this but ive been spending alot of time with ur wife this tier @desert tendon

haste tax gearing be like

[wintry solar]

Behold, censi's wife

[desert tendon]

idc

i m a happi sharer

[vivid vessel]

I mean none of these changes are controversial it's just a "how to fix outlaw issues the easiest way possible without changing anything ", would hope it would be hard to find people disagreeing with this

[wintry solar]

I do

[vivid vessel]

You are popo

[wintry solar]

Nah not really

[proven ocean]

Zac

[wintry solar]

Not really disagree I mean

[proven ocean]

New marvel movie inc

Fantastic 4

Why do they have the walking dead guy in the movie tho

Isnt he a walking dead actor

[late swallow]

walking dead guy?

[proven ocean]

Yea

[late swallow]

you mean last of us guy

[wintry solar]

Daryl?

[late swallow]

different show noob!

[proven ocean]

Roberto parcel or whatever his name is

[glass mortar]

thats pretty rude did theyt at least ask the walking dead before stealing him away?

crazy to just yoink an actor like that

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel

?

[unique cedar]

yo sup

[vivid vessel]

Wtf crazy

[opal raven]

pedro pascal

[proven ocean]

Isnt he roberto parcel

I remmeber his name was parcel

Atleast thats what i remmeber hearing

[vivid vessel]

Pedro is last of us not walking dead

[opal raven]

he even made an apple ad recently i keep seeing it on tiktok

[vivid vessel]

What this guy smoking

[proven ocean]

Oh

Hes the last actor?

[hasty warren]

Yo pirates !

[wintry solar]

Wasn't he in a movie with Nicholas Cage?

[proven ocean]

How is he acting for fantastic 4 zac

[opal raven]

hes even in narcos

[proven ocean]

?

@vivid vessel how can this actor do fantastic four

Should be someone we dont know no cap

New face = bad no cap

New face = good*

[wintry solar]

I can be the silver surfer

[late swallow]

yeah they should just hire some bum off the street

unironically the safdi brothers do that shit

[proven ocean]

Well not some bum

Just an actor that i dont remember

Thats what they should get

[late swallow]

they'll just hire non professional actors for their movies and it actually works great

[wintry solar]

Chris Pratt

[late swallow]

good time or uncut gems

dwayne the rock johnson should replace pedro pascal

[proven ocean]

Somnpicus

Im gonna make coffee ok

[late swallow]

piss over again today?

[proven ocean]

Catover coffee

Why do they have this on the frontpage of cat discord

Brb coffee

[late swallow]

solo must run the cat discord

he's a certified sabrina carpenter simp

[vivid vessel]

i mean thats how we got most of the actors in marvel no?

[proven ocean]

Do u think sabrina carpenter plays rogue?

[vivid vessel]

they were all mostly unknown before right

[gaunt phoenix]

Wrong sexuality buddy

[bright crane]

The OG cast yeah

[late swallow]

solo a twink enjoyer confirmed?

holy based

[vivid vessel]

wdym by og cast

[stray ginkgo]

Solo is Sabrina carpenter wym

[vivid vessel]

just like everyone of them

[bright crane]

The original marvel/avengers cast

[late swallow]

i mean most of the big marvel actors were already decently well-known

[vivid vessel]

robert and shit ?

idk

i dont think so

[bright crane]

Other than RDJ and Scarlett Johansson, rest of them kinda got big from doing marvel movies

[late swallow]

RDJ was a pretty big actor before marvel

chris evans was well known too

[gaunt phoenix]

nice ad wowhead

[dense bolt]

[vivid vessel]

wowhead is so shit

Well at least their website always works

Not like raider io

Raider io website Perma slow or down

Or shit

Imagine being raider io

[late swallow]

raider io servers are hosted on some 2018 macbook air

wheezing in a dark basement

[vivid vessel]

real

[stray ginkgo]

Why are my wowhead adds all thigh highs and lube

[gaunt phoenix]

hmm

[glass mortar]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/741161278113841263/1075193772939419668/bimplyactvity.gif

wait solo responded