#tc-research
coarse scaffold
Thanks!
merry cloud
Since ideas about using Crimson Tempest on single target are floating around here is my take on it https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/LxULBEU5XzspYTEo1fVsP
So not worth
torn dome
DPE of CT beats envenom
But envenom has more to it than just the initial damage.
This is further emphesized by azerite traits
merry cloud
and with more mastery that gap should become smaller since stat affects 100% of Envenom damage and only Bleed portion of CT
plucky mural
I expect to have a number threshold for CT /env weaving in aoe. That is, until they nerf the hit and buff the tick.
arctic yew
hey guys. just wondering if anyone has toyed with the idea of amanthuls vision with the outlaw boots?
plucky mural
Toyed? You can sim the combo.
arctic yew
I don't see the speed buff in the Sim. I have found that it's up about 25% of the time in real world however. So I was interested in how well the two worked together
little comet
so looked through the pins but couldnt find it. Can some one help me out with explaining how to sim yourself on raidboy for Mythics?
odd sedge
raidboy? 😄
merry cloud
Okay so I made a mistake in my previous APL and it made Blindside look worse than it actually is, apologies for that. After recent fixes it's approximately 2.6% better than Mutilating in execute, with that difference slowly dropping with Mastery. Picking Venom Rush brings that difference down to 1.5%
Now if we turn 50% of the Blindside damage into Poison( so make it scale with Mastery ) that difference between strategies goes to 5.5% in favor of Blindside only in execute. And it barely changes with Mastery
maiden cargo
For beta Assassination, I have found 3111321 to be the best so far. Master Assassin and Night Stalker seem equal for burst out of stealth, I opted for the overall damage increase instead of crit chance. Vigor and Deeper Stratagem, I feel it’s Vigor all the way for the increase to energy regen. Venom Rush and Toxic Blade, both are nice but since Toxic Blade has a short cool down and nice up front damage I find it to be back up in time after I refresh Rupture and time for Toxic Blade+Envenom windows. What are some thoughts on this?
merry cloud
I have found 3111321 to be the best so far.
Found how?
raven knoll
I think that's more suited for #assassination than here.
mighty pawn
@maiden cargo If you'd like to discuss beta builds in a more casual fashion, head to the spec channels. TC-Research is for discussion grounded in APLs, sims, etc. TY.
fierce lynx
Does anyone know if the herodamage.com website plans to updated with BFA?
regal agate
very likely, but closer to bfa
boreal patrol
absolutely, i'll do some initial work for HD rogue results very soon
haughty current
What's the battleplan if i want to make APLs for the beta builds? Has simulationcraft released any beta releases or how do you go about these things? @boreal patrol
boreal patrol
SimC has a bfa-dev branch, i'm usually updating rogue implementations relatively quickly
BfA research just started, weak and lorentz are fiddling with Assa and i just did some refactoring for Sub. none of these BfA-targeted APLs are made default yet, but we put research notes here https://github.com/Ravenholdt-TC/Rogue/wiki
boreal patrol
there are no precompiled bfa builds yet, for now you have to compile it yourself
raidbots may also be enabling bfa sims soon, but i have no idea on that eta
haughty current
According to the wiki, you compile the GUI with Qt? This is a payed product ye?
boreal patrol
no, all open source
haughty current
Oh.
boreal patrol
or rather, they have both a commercial and open source release of it
haughty current
Yea I got it now - If I'm only interrested in the GUI. Is Visual Studio important? Or is it for the libraries that it's required?
Oh wait
I'm a dumb dumb
ofc it is.
boreal patrol
Visual Studio is the windows compiler you may want to use
this guide may help https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki/Newbie-build-instructions
haughty current
Yea that's what I'm reading through. Thanks
@boreal patrol
This error something that you recognize?
boreal patrol
no, not sure, you'll have to fiddle with installing qt yourself, also we're running off-topic of this channel
haughty current
Aight.
split sorrel
@haughty current totally 😉
full solar
is there already a rough approach to the "worth" of sec stats? as i'm not experienced enough in using simc in so early build for a new addon, I cant get something which gives me the hint in which direction the stats should go
for assa rogue 😉
at the moment im stacking mastery, but it feels a bit less rewarding. but im only ilvl 329 so thats surely also a point
boreal patrol
for assa the haste change should be noticeable, but we're not really promoting builds or stat distributions yet. however, you can expect us to post some new things on HeroDamage as we approach BfA
you can get a dev build for BfA and sim preliminary stat weights the usual way though. raidbots may be enabling BfA sims as well, sometime soon (idk when)
teal wolf
i would think once the pre-patch hits the ptr bfa sims will be enabled
would make sense anyways
full solar
hm... okay, then ill try it via dev build
regal agate
you can build the bfa branche from simc from the source
regal agate
Mystler added Secret technique (experimental) to simc yesterday.
This means we assume that it works like Death from Above and the damage part hits after 2 secounds.
I did some apl research and run talent combination sims.
you can have a look here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jSCC0o5meyN_t6dB_9vc4oUEx8SvpIeR26iRnWqz7ns/edit?usp=sharing
merry cloud
Is it affected by mastery and Deeper Stratagem in simc?
torn dome
Should be
regal agate
yes it is affected by mastery(as noted in the document) and procs rentless strikes
boreal patrol
yeah, I implemented it based on guesswork how it might be supposed to work, so we can have a look at it already
merry cloud
cool, thanks
simple ocean
isn't that quite insignificant ?
prisma gate
can somebody explain why NB instead of e vis is a dps loss in dance (assuming no dance buffing talents?)
(multitarget that is)
spare fog
What is the advanced sim input to tell raidbots to use the the latest bfa git build?
boreal patrol
changing simc version is not an input you send to simc 😛
i think seriallos will pobably replace nightly/weekly when prepatch hits. otherwise, there may also be a bfa option in the build list
spare fog
There must be a way to run BFA sims in the raidbot, I can see others doing it: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/bwL8KzmHV8XcRpzhiShmNx
knotty oriole
Account has to be manually flagged since it's experimental code
verbal latch
Hi guys, so I'm interested in Theorycrafting or helping out with outlaw, where's about is a good place to start reading up how to get started on it
regal agate
depends on what you want to do, if you want to fiddle around with the apl the wiki is the right place (apl wiki link in the pins)
verbal latch
Sorry @regal agate for bugging you, but could you send me the apl that you used for simming RtB buff? I just want to get rough idea how you do it, you can DM me.
plucky mural
Apl choices would revolve around holding or rerolling on various combinations. The rtb itself calculated in the simc build.
regal agate
@verbal latch the outlaw apl is default(bfa branche), all you need to do is grap it and remove the reroll condition(|variable.rtb_reroll ) from rtb and use the fixed_rtb (descritbed in the apl wiki)
plucky mural
does the PTR=1 toggle work yet? Id like to mess around with prepatch stuff
specifically haste values
regal agate
no, you can compile the bfa branche of simc if you want to sim it
problem with bfa branche is that apl was cleaned up in preperation for 120 so tier and legendary conditions are usually gone.
simc still supports those conditions but given scaling/etc change you would need to re-evaluate and re-add those if you want to optimize for pre-patch
plucky mural
I guess a non legendary stat weight would be ok. I just want to see how well haste is scaling.
plucky mural
@regal agate are any of the azurite skills going to cause major adjustments in the apl? From what I've seen they are small buffs or damage bonuses.
regal agate
most will not, but some will, it depends on the trait
APL wiki (APL dev. for bfa):
https://github.com/Ravenholdt-TC/Rogue/wiki/Subtlety-APL-Research
plucky mural
I would offer to help with sin Rotation. Just not sure if they are still very simple. Or if they have been tuned well with exang or blindside. Etc.
regal agate
you (and everyone who wants to) is welcome to look at the apl and search for improvements.
The apl wiki (link in the pins) is a good starting point if you want to work on the apl.
outside of apl, we might need data on some azerite traits, i am not up to date with those so i am not sure what parts of the implementation are not obviouse from spell data/tooltip
regal agate
to not cause confusion, this means we need ppl to test certain trait ingame
verbal latch
I'm always willing to help test, just let me know which traits to run so we can compare the datas
somber aspen
I too am glad to help, trying to learn apl syntax but that will take sometime, anything I can do meanwhile lemme know 😃
violet perch
hello everyone, is the shadowcraft apl the same as the one in simcraft? i'm going to reroll to rogue for bfa and interested in minmaxing my char and gear options
boreal patrol
no, shadowcraft doesn't technically use APLs since it's not a simulator
boreal patrol
has anyone on beta been checking if shrouded suffocation trait for assa also works from shadowmeld?
zenith carbon
is outlaw the spec doing the most output right now in the coming prepatch?
naive nimbus
@zenith carbon #456965066638753802 #outlaw
pins in bfa in particular for 120 sims, but for prepatch nobody knows/has probably bothered to look at because its a few weeks of content that isn't going to be competitive
split sorrel
Combinator will be up on HeroDamage, then others will follow (for PrePatch)
austere quarry
boreal patrol
sorry for spam, I closed all issues on the Rogue dashboard that are not relevant with BfA, left a few general ones open, but they could use re-checking
plucky mural
For legion stat weights were derived +2000 (approx) stat. Does anyone know what the +x for bfa is going to be?
lofty kiln
naive nimbus
@boreal patrol has the t21 sub bug been reported to you yet?
I've had a few people complain about this now
edgy raptor
Hey ho,
I wanted to let you know, https://bloodmallet.com is updated for prepatch. All data will be updated several more times over the course of this week until the development of SimulationCraft calms down again.
If this isn't the correct location for this message, please let me know. Of course, if you have any feedback, or something seems wrong, or outdated, please let me know, too. I love to provide easily accessible data for everyone and would love to work together with you. 👋
torn dome
Just that our cloak + talent combo was hotfixed this morning so might skew results ever so slightly
edgy raptor
If hotfixes are already in SimC I can redo rogue charts.
torn dome
They are not. Keep an eye out on commits soontm 😄
split sorrel
Nah it's not because we don't know if it's an actual hotfix of value or something changed server side
regal agate
pre patch test/bug list so far:
- Toxic Blade bug (nature damage amp not working)
- Shadowstrike TP does not work always
- The First of the Dead not generation CP
subt21 4p cause you to not be able to generate cp
Note: Those are the reports i got so far, if you have something to add or remove from the list pls post here.
boreal patrol
There's a whole lot of bugs rolling in it seems. Thanks for the summary, I'd probably like some better descriptions via our issues as well, though.
split sorrel
Do not forget the wow community bug tracker 📄
boreal patrol
yeah, i'd love some easy way to keep them in sync tbh
Rosvall already reported the T21 issue there
i put a link on our dashboard though
warm aspen
Why did you guys exclude Sephuz from the Combinations on Hero Damage? It sims really high for sub and assa...
split sorrel
It used to be really bad, will add it for tomorrow :)
It's better now since they hasted Bleed
boreal patrol
oh yeah, we removed it on HD long ago as a negative outlier to save sim time, but things changed in prepatch and we forgot to add it again
naive birch
when i'm looking at the outlaw apl, if I don't have quickdraw, doesn't it make me do finishers only at maximum cp even if I have broadsides?
am i reading that right, and is that intended?
regal agate
yes
gray flume
Does simc assume with sephuz though that you are able to consistently benefit from the proc on cd?
regal agate
you can adjust the simulation to proc sephuz, it does not by default
merry cloud
you need casting boss and to test different uptimes to put line_cd on kick action
gray flume
So it assumes zero procs by default?
merry cloud
yes, default target in simc doesn't cast anything
gray flume
Okay cool
naive birch
so broadside, an opportunity proc and 4cp, I should be sinister strike and not finisher if I'm not using quickdraw?
that seems counterintuitive
regal agate
well quick draw was the constraint that made the condition stronger
the proc chance of ss without quick draw is not high enough to justify finishing
naive birch
but with broadsides too, you are wasting a cp and possibly munching a proc?
i mean, I haven't messed around with it to find something better, i just wanted to make sure the logic was doing what it intended
because with quickdraw at 0 and not using MFD, you basically always finish at max cp
you never account for broadsides
teal wolf
seems like between the eyes isn't getting the 4x multiplier on crits like it's supposed to
not sure if anyone in here has experienced that but there's been a few people (including myself) in #outlaw who have noticed this
naive birch
can you post a log where that happened on dummy or on warcraftlogs? the ones I glanced at on wl show 4x crits
teal wolf
i'll see if it showed up in my normal run from yesterday
hmm yea looks like it's showing up properly in logs
nvm then i guess lol
regal agate
@naive birch i agree with you there, wasting cp feels terrible and with the lower pace it should be a win to finish with less cp there, i will look into it again
plucky mural
how can I see the profile used in the Herodamage sims? I wanted to see the Haste % in the assassin tree
vagrant quail
can raidbots do a top gear + talent compare together ? i want to know what is the best setup i can make and what talent to use at once.
teal wolf
i believe you can in the advanced sims just add an extra copy of the simc import with different talents/gear
teal wolf
🤔
split sorrel
@plucky mural on the repo source atm with this version of the website
naive nimbus
I know you guys are probably swamped with stuff to do but is anyone able/willing to do some TC for PvP stat weights etc as well as things become easier to test/prove? I had a couple other PvP related questions but I probably need to get the specifics first. Just wondering if there was someone able/willing to do some PvP tc
boreal patrol
hmm, afaik we don't even have special pvp settings/support in simc since a bunch of things scale differently and "rotation" varies a lot as well
pvp is much harder to put in a general sim and thus generate simple stat weights
naive nimbus
No way to Sim me killing don Jose 1000 times? :(
split sorrel
PvP changes are not on SimC, so you can't really sim them.
plucky mural
... can we get a stunable patchwerk aka "Trash mob". I'd like to test sephuz as a 8mob 20s. Or 4mob 40sec.
I've been using patchwerk for m+ But would like to get the stun multiplier or sephuz proc.
regal agate
you just need to use advanced mode on raidbots
plucky mural
Advanced setting has something for that ?
plucky mural
Hectic add cleave is scripted wrong for what I want. I'm not pasting into the advanced input.
I want to run trinket pool tests and stat weights.
regal agate
well there is no "easy" way to do that, you need to manually set the parameters in the imput
plucky mural
Do if simc doesn't have a "trash mob". Then can't he just have a toggle for it in his advanced fight options.
I just joined the raidbots discord. I'll talk to him there. I got the 20/40s fights added in about 7 mins.
Some stuff is probably easy. Some not.
regal agate
ok, have fun
plucky mural
Casting patchwerk can proc sephuz with a silence. Aka subterfuge garrote.
full kindle
Hi @plucky mural 👋 That was the simc line I was using when siming on AOE Fights, basicly make adds spawns, you can modify evry element to parameter it as you want it : raid_events+=/adds,count=3,first=50,cooldown=999,duration=10,cooldown_stddev=1
What I was using is actualy, that was to try to get close of a maiden fight, (You can ask @regal agate about it if you have more quesitons, he was the one giving thoses to me 👌 )
raid_events+=/adds,count=3,first=50,cooldown=999,duration=10,cooldown_stddev=1 raid_events+=/adds,count=3,first=84,cooldown=999,duration=10,cooldown_stddev=1 raid_events+=/adds,count=3,first=180,cooldown=999,duration=10,cooldown_stddev=1 raid_events+=/adds,count=3,first=10,cooldown=60,duration=35,cooldown_stddev=1
Not sure if thoses lines are still up to date tho 🤔
umbral crag
can someone test if it is worth to let garotte and rupture expire before reapplying it? the last tick deals damage proportionally to the remaining time of the dot, but you get the full amount energy from venomous vim
boreal patrol
if you reapply right after it drops you have the partial tick (with full energy from VW yes) happen before the "regular" tick but the next regular happens later, giving you no net energy benefit
naive birch
so if it ticks every 2 seconds and you've hasted that down so there's a tick literally 0.1 second before it ends. So then you get that last partial tick 0.1 seconds after the full tick. then you reapply lets say you're good and reapply 0.1 seconds after expiry and you get your next tick 2.1 seconds after that partial. in a 2.2 seconds window you got the energy of a normal 4 second window
or am i misunderstanding what they were asking / how it works?
and i realized i just necrod a question from 2 weeks ago, but eh
blissful cape
Do we have azerite trait sims for rogues anywhere?
teal wolf
no
arctic comet
Would those sims be put in the resource channel or pinned somewhere else?
boreal patrol
they will be announced and available on the new BfA version of HeroDamage. bloodmallet will likely add azerite sims as well in the near future
split sorrel
Yes it'll be in #tc-updates for sure
Tbh, you should display a notification everytime someone write something there. It's not noisy and often have information you should be know.
Whenever bugs are found they're likely announced publicly there. Same when we find some other cool stuff.
warm aspen
Three questions about the bfa sims: 1. Wtf is this Permafrost trinket? 😄 2. Aren't the darkmoon and alchemist trinkets 355 ilvl on beta? Pretty sure they changed them a couple days ago. 3: What's the difference between 1TA and 1T?
calm venture
http://www.wowhead.com/item=161381/permafrost-encrusted-heart its a trinket that drops off a world boss according to wowhead
modest eagle
Is there a list anywhere yet of BiS Azerite gear? Not just traits
split sorrel
@warm aspen Yes they changed it recently, will be updated in the next next update (the one from today is already simming)
@warm aspen It's 1T + Adds, basically Hectic but with adds that doesn't die at the same time so they can be MfD
Also, keep in mind it's heavy experimental, some things aren't implemented yet, some other are a bit flawed (basically azerite should be summed under specific talents). We aren't done yet, lot of things to add ;)
torn dome
Id suggest some clearing on the name. So many have asked what 1TA means already
split sorrel
Yes will be changed
torn dome
👌
torn dome
:D
merry pike
is seperating by tier something u have in mind or at least the option to do so
split sorrel
for azerite ?
yes, this + icon & spell tooltip
I think we'll use wowhead/wowdb tooltips for now, but in the future I'll make our own parser to display every information from the game
deft elk
@split sorrel why in PR and T22 tables same traits give different increases for the same Azerit ilvl? This is because of the different stat in PR and T22 gear? (Outlaw trait Filthy Transfusion increases dps by 313 in PR and is rank1 but in T22 table this trait increases dps by 299 and him is rank4 ). TY
boreal patrol
this may simple be due to simulation error rate, the two absolutes of that trait are and should be rather close
gilded ore
What about the Mag'har Orcs and Iron Dwarves on herodamage for BFA ?
split sorrel
Good point
I'm not fully sure they are in simc (their racial) but will add it to my to-do list
boreal patrol
they're not really supported in simc yet which is why i didn't add them to the race script so far
vagrant quail
https://bfa.herodamage.com/rogue/ what is this PR and t22 ?
split sorrel
PreRaids & Tier22
see SimC
PreRaids is basically M0, T22 is Uldir (+ M10 chest for Azerite Gear)
vagrant quail
oh like old mythic setup
first time looking at some bfa sims after we killed mythic argus i really leaved the wow rsrs
gleaming lava
I don't know if this is the correct place, but regarding the Azerite trait Paradise Lost for Outlaw, when Slice and Dice is selected as talent, my sims aren't showing any Paradise Lost uptime. On beta Slice & Dice seems to be treated just like rolling a 1 RtB buff when it comes to that trait, so uptime should be high. Apologies if this had already been pointed out. Link to an example sim: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kyrsHta2zX4huxUcTaH4vY/simc
boreal patrol
oh, ty for catching that, i'll check it out later
brisk wadi
not sure why the sims are for 385 for t22, would be more helpful if simc set 370 or 375 for the baseline
split sorrel
cuz it has been decided to take mythic as baseline
the main reason is that no one is willing to maintain the profiles for all specs
so most of the time heroic ones weren't updated, or mythic ones (or both)
at least with only one choice, it reduces the needs of maintain
of course rogues weren't much concerned since we are many to work on
boreal patrol
the other reason is that HC profiles always turned out being 1:1 copy of Mythic with lower ilevels
split sorrel
but some classes/specs were, that's why it is like that
yes, which was a mimic of the behavior but with a bit less high numbers
ideally in BfA, it would be a set of profiles exclusive from raids, a set of profiles exclusive from M+ and then a mix of both
but unless it's done by a machine, it's not realistic
feel free to make a script that automate the DBC to generate such profiles for all specs
boreal patrol
ok, Paradise Lost with SnD should work after next build on raidbots
neon breach
I was told to try in here. Sorry if this has been covered. But, I woke up a few min ago and checked the usual sites to realize all the recommended trinkets and azerite traits are different on bloodmallet. What changed?
tough hornet
lots of stealth nerfs going out
boreal patrol
there was a silent scaling hotfix that affected a lot of azerite powers ~2 days ago, bloodmallet has not updated since then I think
split sorrel
I tends to update HD every 12-24hrs
neon breach
so HD is accurate? today's simcraft has ret, for example, not using expurg anymore, but its still listed as a monster trait on HD
split sorrel
it has been hotfixed tonight
the 2nd batch of sims has finished few mins ago, it'll be live soon
just check what hours is there, or the commits
and see when the hotfix were pulled in simc
if it's not there, come back in 12hrs and it'll be updated
neon breach
alright, thank you
teal wolf
it's an example
warm aspen
I have a question about the Darkmoon Trinket: It simmed poorly a couple days ago, but now it looks better then most trinkets from Uldir Heroic(atleast for sub and outlaw). How big is the rng factor and is is worth to buy it early for mythic 0s and normal/heroic uldir week?
naive birch
what are the differences between the default outlaw rogue profile used for the simc home page and the one used for hero damage? Just curious why the simc dps for outlaw preraid is 10% higher than the top dps combo for outlaw preraid in herodamage
tall moth
What is the go to simulation tool these days, or is it all up to personal preference?
split sorrel
What do you call simulation tool ?
tall moth
SimC, raidbots etc
split sorrel
AFAIK there is only two tools, SimC and AMR.
Although, you can use SimC on the cloud through Raidbots.
And if you want to see pre-simulated results for template profiles you can check HeroDamage where we do host a bunch of results updated everyday.
tall moth
alright, thank you
brisk wadi
for sub, the line to refresh nightblade early to last the duration of symbols
how would this work for the new azerite trait that increases symbols duration?
maybe look into messing with that line in the APL if the Inevitability trait is active on a piece of gear?
boreal patrol
yeah, it does not consider inevitability extension so far
rustic ibex
So I had a discussion with Liavre yesterday about multidotting as sub vs just spamming shs and evis in cleave. Doing some math manually we ran into some troubles tho. For example I was quite sure our modifiers (such as the shs passive, dark shadow talent, the % increase from nightblade, etc) are all additive, while he thought they might be multiplicative. Which is the case?
Also running the numbers just from evising vs nightblading it was kinda clear that evis did a whole lot more dmg just running it with additive modifiers. However fuu said multidotting still is the superior choice. I wasn't able to verify that tho trying the math so I wanted to ask if some1 could show me (and possibly how much the difference is).
Now that I thought of it: Does Nightblade dmg increase affect itself?
merry cloud
modifiers are multiplicative
boreal patrol
NB is a whitelisted dmg amp and does not increase its own damage
rustic ibex
Okay, where do I find dmg calculation formulas? Like actually acurate ones that take armor/armor debuffs and magic resist into consideration?
formal gate
Why do I sim higher wit the higher ilvl weapon if off-hand? Shouldnt it be the other way around?
boreal patrol
@rustic ibex there are several parts to it, what part(s) are you interested in? armor effectiveness of an enemy is K / (K + Armor) where K is the attackers K value (depending on level). for 120+ npc enemies the resulting effectiveness is 30.05%
@formal gate can you specify the situation? spec, gear, talents, items you're comparing?
warm aspen
@formal gate Did you sim with the bugged new dagger from honorbound emissary? It has only half the dps it should have.(less then my 330 one)
rustic ibex
@boreal patrol I imagine there must be a collection of the dmg formulas somewhere written down to read up on. It's not just the armor but also stuff like how skill damage is calculated, e.g. how much weapon dps aswell as agility affects certain skills aswell as how sub rogue mastery affects finisher dmg when you start calculating in multiplicative effects like Dark Shadow talents. What I'm trying to do is get to the core of damage calculation to get a better understanding of it.
boreal patrol
i don't think there is a definitive and complete collection. you're best of googling for the parts you want to know, looking at spreadsheets, or code. AMR wiki may be closest to some kind of collection
dmg itself is (usually) pretty simple though. for rogues it's in general this: (AP + WDPS * 6) * APCoefficient * Mods with mods being all multiplicative, bonus damage from traits is added before mods
rustic ibex
What includes mods? Mastery aswell as talents? Where does the armor calculation happen? How is the shadow damage calculated/is there magic resist?
boreal patrol
all mods, yes. if sub mastery is 100% more finisher damage you have a mod of 2. if you have 30% physical damage reduction from armor, you have a mod of 0.7 on physical attacks
magic resist is not really a very relevant thing anymore, esp not if you want to just do calculations based on spelldata/tooltips
rustic ibex
I've been trying to find a way to get the APCoefficient, but I'm not getting it
boreal patrol
i do recommend starting out by simply recalculating tooltip damage
you can get the ap coefficient from spell data, either via wowhead (the X% Attack Power value) or simc spell queries
rustic ibex
Ahh, that makes sense. Thank you.
You said earlier that a mob of 120+ takes basically 30.05% decreased dmg from physical attacks due to armor. Does that mean Find Weakness reduces that effect by 40% resulting in that factor only being 18.03% or does it work differently?
boreal patrol
not exactly, FW bypasses 40% of the enemy armor and you have to put that in the formula i mentioned above. so if enemy npc has 3336 armor * 0.6 from FW with level 120 player K value of 7765 you end up with 7765 / (7765 + 3326*0.6) = 0.7955 so you should end up with an effective increase of ~13.6%
rustic ibex
What is K?
boreal patrol
it's a fixed value by level and used for the attacker. so if you attack an enemy it's your K their armor, if they attack you their K and your armor.
(hence why the armor tooltip ingame says "against an evenly matched enemy". it assumes equal level K value)
rustic ibex
So raidbosses are like lvl 123 and have a higher value?
boreal patrol
it used to be that way, yes, but in BfA npc enemies levels 120-123 all seem to the same armor value of 3336, afaik
rustic ibex
I am strugling in finding proper APCoefficients for spells. I've tried Evis on wowhead which seems out of date. I now tried to get Backstab, but Idk how to interpret the formula of it nad Idk if it's even right https://www.wowhead.com/spell=53/backstab
merry cloud
Evis was proper last time I checked it, what is the problem with it?
rustic ibex
I figured out I have the problem as all of my calculations are off. I haven't figured out why yet tho..
boreal patrol
the 41% is the value you're looking for, it even says AP mod in the table below: 0.41106
the rest of that tooltip, if you simply calculate it amounts to a modifier of 1 at Level 120
rustic ibex
So I've tried this: (AP + (weapdps6) * APcoef * mods. Resulting in the following for my character right now aiming to hit the number in my tooltip for Backstab. (4266 + (106,76)) * 0,4111 * 1,0647 ~= 2147,43
The tooltip says 3082 so I'm probably missing a modifier. But I can't figure out which
merry cloud
spec aura for one
rustic ibex
We still have that? Didn't they remove that with BfA?
merry cloud
no, they have baked a lot of things into them
it's easy way to change dps of a spec while not touching each spell individually so dunno why would they drop it
rustic ibex
Well it makes sense, true. Simply multiplying by 1,28 gives me 2748,71. Still lacking about 300dmg
weapdps is only mainhand or mainhand+offhand/2 ?
merry cloud
main hand, there are spells who use oh wdps as well like pistol shot but backstab is not one of them iirc
and with oh it would be ( mh_wdps + oh_wdps * 2 ) * 2/3
rustic ibex
Okay, so no change there. I did the math about 5 times by now and I'm pretty sure I didn't mess up the numbers either. So still missing a mod
boreal patrol
WDPS is usually MH, unless it's a specific off hand attack (like Muti is treating MH and OH seperately); or that combined formula for some special cases (shuriken storm, toss, BtE, Pistol Shot, NB) [edit: the formula lorentz posted is wrong. actually, it's weighing MH 2/3 and OH 1/3 so (2/3*MH + 1/3*OH)*6 which you can simplify to 4*MH + 2*OH. this means that if you have the same dps value on both MH and OH it amounts in the same result as using the MH only formula]
for the missing damage, do you have any other (maybe temporary) mods active (like NS and stealth) or a trait (like inevitability)?
rustic ibex
OHHHH, inevitability increases backstab dmg even outside of sod.
Is that flat added at the end? Or where do I fiddle that in?
boreal patrol
before modifiers
rustic ibex
Then I'm too high
3596 and supposed to be 3082
If I add it before the apcoef I get 2886
boreal patrol
no after ap coefficient
rustic ibex
Yea, after is too high.
boreal patrol
ap coefficient only affect the AP formula, then bonus is added, then other mods
i think we're going a bit too off-topic now though, will continue in DM
mystic jacinth
will shrouded suffocation be fixed? has a blue confirmed it?
tough hornet
what's wrong with it currently?
cunning moth
Hi all,
Trying to make an "intelligent" weakaura to show me when to cast shadow dance.
now i've looked at the APL but can't make sense of this line:
shadow_dance,if=(!talent.dark_shadow.enabled|dot.nightblade.remains>=5+talent.subterfuge.enabled)&(variable.shd_threshold|buff.symbols_of_death.remains>=1.2|spell_targets>=4&cooldown.symbols_of_death.remains>10)
What does this mean? sepcfically the last part, is that advising to cast ShD if SoD has >=1.2 seconds left on the buff?
Also what does the spell_targets>=4 mean?
Sorry for the long question, trying to get my head round this stuff
sage blaze
First of all I never went deep in weakaura stuff but I work as a programmer so I can be mistaken. For your first question yes thats what it means ( + of course the first line () condition) For your question regarding spell_targets it tracks the number of targets in range so if (targets in range) >= 4 and cd of SoD > 10 --> SD
strong gorge
Basically what the note says, With Dark Shadow only Dance when Nightblade will stay up. Use during Symbols or above threshold.
cunning moth
yep and to clarify, youd use shadow dance if the duration remaing on SoD is >=1.2 seconds?
strong gorge
I don't know from the top of my head, but I think currently shd_treshold is 1.75 charges? something like that
cunning moth
yeah it is, im fine with that threshold, just this line about symbols of death i was referring to:
buff.symbols_of_death.remains>=1.2
Does that mean youd use shadow dance if the duration remaing on SoD is >=1.2 seconds?
strong gorge
Or if shd_threshold evaluates to true
(or if there's 4 or more targets in range and you have more than 10s cd on SoD)
cunning moth
Thats great ❤ ty very much for your help 😄
strong gorge
But make sure you check for all instances of dance usage as well
abstract viper
@split sorrel a little improvement suggestion for the HD site: On trinket sim site etc, you have the legend on the right showing the colours for item levels (seen here https://gyazo.com/2b73178b6607b773436c5359b03ea766 )
- If its possible, make these colours / ilvls clickable so you could instantly see trinket rankings based on the item level chosen
just a little QOL suggestion
split sorrel
Yes this has been on my to-do list since 1 week or so, wasn't able to do it yet due to work but I'll work on it tonight/tomorrow
tough hornet
im testing making modifications to some of the default sim profiles for specs, if i have a list of item names i want, is there an easy/programmatic way to get item ids/bonus ids for simc without manually looking up each item e.g. on wowhead?
example listbile_stained_crawg_tusks bile_stained_crawg_tusks flashpowder_hood mantle_of_fastidious_machinations cloak_of_questionable_intent vest_of_reverent_adoration venerated_raptorhide_bindings grubby_servant_grabbers cincture_of_the_azerite_arsenal breeches_of_the_sacred_hall footpads_of_the_serene_wake lord_waycrest's_signet band_of_the_ancient_dredger lustrous_golden_plumage kul_tiran_cannonball_runner
regal agate
you can use https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/idtip if you write them down from withing the game (it displays the item id/bonus id in the tooltip).
tough hornet
Where can i find a list of rules for profiles, e.g. no world boss loot, no warforging/sockets, azerite neck level?
gaunt gale
@tough hornet https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/blob/bfa-dev/profiles/generators/Tier22/T22_Generate.simc they're on git
tough hornet
thanks
boreal patrol
fixed, see #tc-updates
tough hornet
I made an initial snake eyes profile for testing purposes
oops duplicated mainhand
regal agate
all you need to do is use 3x snake eye trait.
this means you just need to use ,azerite_powers=239 for your 3 azerite pieces
for apl changes
apl: https://github.com/Ravenholdt-TC/Rogue/wiki/Outlaw-APL-Research
To always finish with SnD:
change line 50 to actions.finish+=/slice_and_dice
If you want to ignore PS procs (not necessary a win):
change line 57 to #actions.build=pistol_shot,if=combo_points.deficit>=1+buff.broadside.up+talent.quick_draw.enabled&buff.opportunity.up
however keep in mind to compile from source or wait for the next raidbots update to sim.
tough hornet
not on linux, how would i compile the cli from source on windows?
tough hornet
that just lists visualstudio build method for GUI
merry cloud
for gui?
tough hornet
it doesnt have a CLI only build on windows?
tough hornet
ah i see, i saw the QT installation and assumed it was for gui
merry cloud
QT is for GUI but you have an option of building just CLI on Win as well
plucky mural
One of the traits spawns White and purple agi orbs off the player. Does the sim assume these are all picked up?
It's a shame they don't stack beyond 1white 1purple.
knotty oriole
secrets_of_the_deep_chance = 0.1; // TODO: Guessed, needs validation
secrets_of_the_deep_collect_chance = 1.0;
Can use
bfa.secrets_of_the_deep_chance = X
bfa.secrets_of_the_deep_collect_chance = Y
if you want to test custom values. But it does default to all of them being picked up.
plucky mural
If I continue to use it, I would need a WA to notify for collection. Just like the maiden trinket.
But thanks.
sage escarp
I made what seems to be a more accurate snake apl
I was doing around 2k more in game than the APL that just changes line 50 and 57
with this APL it gives me a higher number than what I do in game, but close. In game I have no buffs on so I'm thinking its pretty accurate
SCRATCH THAT
lol why is it still using dispatch
merry cloud
comparing in-game and simc results is a bad idea
sage escarp
I know i know but its tremendously lower
sage escarp
Could it be possible that SimC currently is not applying the snake eyes buff with each slice and dice? Trying to figure out why snake eyes has an uptime of 27% when slice n dice is 99%. If the APL is doing 5 SS > SnD > Repeat Snake eyes uptime should be way higher right ?
regal agate
cant re-produce your result, sneaky eyes has a quite high uptime.
Did not find any further optimization to the build from a fast look.
If you have further optimizations feel free to share them.
I switched to a 340 1h for base snd and rtb.
Using PS seems to be not worth.
Simulation:https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7BREs12kVKZaRQpLkNZZmc/simc
sage escarp
What apl did you use? I followed the steps a few posts up about switching line 50 and 57 and it gives me a 27% uptime
regal agate
did you use simc nightly build?
regal agate
no
you can look at the apl in the repot, all i did was change those 2 lines.
for dispatch, there is no way it can trigger if you changed the snd line
you can post your report if you want, i can take a look
sage escarp
Ok I copied that apl
Then imported via simc addon, wonder if thats messing anything up
regal agate
i cant help you without a report
sage escarp
WIll that open for you
Ahhh
I think i may get it
I was running that APL in SIMC, just found the advanced tab of raidbots. Lets see how this handles it
Yeah that was it
Running that apl in raidbots I have 10k dps and uptime of 98%
in simc 6k dps uptime of 37%
I copied the "Run This in your local simulation craft download' box
right into simc
and got those varying results
regal agate
i just copied your gear profile in, works fine for me
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/n7K5ug6XfB1e1Ef91BaQCG
split sorrel
use nightly at least
best would be to build yourself
2nd best is raidbots I guess
sage escarp
Yeah that was the most recent nightly on simc
downloaded it about 2 hours ago
What raidbots simulation options were you using?
The one you did of my loadout has 800 more dps
appreciate the help guys
regal agate
https://pastebin.com/Zg0bzwdw
paste this in raidbots advanced mode with nightly selected.
the latest simc version on the ftp is some days old so it has not all hotfixes in.
regal agate
raidbots builds the nightly every day at ~8 am iirc, github has always the latest changes you would just need to setup the tool-chain to build it
sage escarp
Okay cool thanks for the info
That pastebin got me 10,974
I'll just book mark it and swap out gear manually for now
Thanks
split sorrel
These hotfixes aren't live yet
Will probably go live on Tuesday reset
Yes I know, Blizzard notes are misleading but Blizzard 🤷
sage escarp
Here you'll find a list of hotfixes that address various issues related to World of Warcraft: Battle For Azeroth. Some of the hotfixes below take effect the moment they were implemented, while others may require scheduled realm restarts to go into effect. Please keep in mind that some issues cannot be addressed without a client-side patch update. This list will be updated as additional hotfixes are applied.
This text was added later on 😉
sage escarp
idk how they attacked Shrouded Suffocation before BitS or Snake
pliant kelp
did the fix for the double dose trait not go through? my sims with it are still showing very low damage with it
wispy badger
https://gyazo.com/021e1a4be7a6fea1af0a4c3fa93261b1 herodamage has the fixed one
maybe raidbots is not quite updated yet
pliant kelp
i see
i assumed it would be since they pull from the same source?
ie the nightly builds
wispy badger
I think they have developer builds where they try stuff before releasing it
not 100% sure
pliant kelp
could be, thanks for answering
regal agate
raidbots updates every day at ~8 AM cest. All changes to simc that where done up to this point are in the nightly version.
Raidbots should be up to date with the hotfix changes too, it just was not for the majority of yesterday hence the hotfix data where added after the daily build.
pliant kelp
i can confirm that the double dose trait isn't siming properly still on raidbots
but i know for a fact that in game the trait does significantly more
knotty oriole
Double Dose was fixed 2 days ago so I'd expect it to be in the raidbots nightly
Unless he didn't update yesterday for some reason 😃
Weekly would not be updated
split sorrel
@pliant kelp @wispy badger HeroDamage doesn't use Raidbots at all. Got own toolchain and build SimC from sources everytime it's started. You can check the git hash to see when it was done.
I also try to update spell data and default profiles whenever I run it now.
I think Bloodmallet is using Raidbots now so that might be from where the confusion comes.
Everytime I see a rogue changes or whenever Mystler/Koji told me (if I missed them or wasn't online) I restart the rogues sims. So usually HD is updated few minutes/hours after a change was made on SimC.
wispy badger
I see, yea makes sense :p
split sorrel
For the rest of HD, it's usually at least once per day, unless hotfix/patch or special asks from maintainers
Still rely too much on manual input for now, in the future I'll open up a way to regenerate the data either whenever something on SimC end changes either from a manual trigger that some people would be able to kick off remotely. It's in my giant todo list but not really high priority for now.
boreal patrol
Raidbots nightly def should have the DD fix.
valid bison
is this buff "Increased the damage dealt by Tiny Electromental in a Jar by 233%" in herodamage sims from 26 Aug. included?
stone basin
!guide
plush slateBOT
Guide: https://goo.gl/hWKpkQ
regal agate
use that command in the spec specific channel for a specific guide
tough hornet
what is the syntax for the mfd line in the sub apl saying?
actions.cds+=/marked_for_death,target_if=min:target.time_to_die,if=target.time_to_die<combo_points.deficit
not sure what target_if=min:target.time_to_die is
and why time to die is checked vs cp deficit
this one makes sense actions.cds+=/marked_for_death,if=raid_event.adds.in>30&!stealthed.all&combo_points.deficit>=cp_max_spend
mfd if empty of cp, adds wont arrive in 30s, and not stealthed
split sorrel
It targets the target with the lowest TTD
Which is what you aim for with MfD since it resets on death
This first one is likely for snipping
And IIRC it's the one I wrote back in the days that still remains relevant
No point using MfD is the gain you'll have is close to null
Second is the "normal on CD MfD"
exotic orchid
What changed about sharpened blades? I don't see any mention of it. Is it only apl changes?
boreal patrol
the trait was buffed by about 75% in a hotfix last night
teal wolf
wew
desert cradle
edit: im dumb
tawny fulcrum
Hello, I was wondering if, when in Assa spec with Shrouded Suffocation traits and with Subterfuge talented, an opener 2x Garrote => Rupture => Vendetta => ... => Vanish at pandemic range to reapply Garrote would be better than current opener that is in Simc right now (Garrote => Mut => Rupt => Vendetta => ... => Vanish at pandemic range)
knotty oriole
It's possible there are some minor optimizations around the Vanish reapplication of Garrote for SS trait yeah
fiery jewel
merektha's fang is supposedly extremely busted right now for all specs even if its a strength trinket. might wanna add it to sims
knotty oriole
I'm already investigating confirming how this works. It's possible sims are slightly wrong, also possible it's still overpowered. 😃
Has been difficult getting logs of people actually using it today, but I should be getting some later at least for sure
fiery jewel
aight sounds good, based on other spec sims, it seems to scale with most multipliers, so could be insane for sub maybe in specific situations
knotty oriole
Although, my professional opinion as a TCer would be that I wouldn't put a lot of effort into trying to get one.. since if it really is as broken as people think it is...it won't be for long. 😛
fiery jewel
of course not, but its good fun. thanks for the quick answer tho
knotty oriole
Rogues don't really have any generic multipliers that would apply to it
All of our stuff is whitelisted nowadays
knotty oriole
Not sure I understand your message there?
median trail
So do we know if hitting garrote twice in the opener is worth to have a longer duration Shrouded suffocation/subt buffed garrote?
split sorrel
#tc-updates few mins ago 
knotty oriole
Short version is yes, it appears to be
Plus it's a pretty efficient source of CP since you get 3 CP from every Garrote in Subterfuge
Also not really just the opener, would be from Vanish as well most likely
median trail
Yea, its funny I had just randomly thought about it after playing assn a little today and that it was posted literally 20 mins ago 😛
knotty oriole
Yeah it was showing for me to be around a 0.4%-1.5% DPS gain depending on the number of traits
And considering it's pretty much no effort, definitely feels worthwhile
median trail
Yea, it just felt right
knotty oriole
Might be some more avenues to make it better for Vanish, but will investigate that later
fiery jewel
Any reason spec neutral azerite traits arent in the combinations tab or is it the ones labeled "none"? Would be interesting to see combinations with thunderous blast
split sorrel
It's the same as none
Since it has no effect on talents
Well for most of them
So yeah same as none
In most cases
fiery jewel
wow so even thunderous blast is a pretty significant dps loss even though it sims pretty well in a vacuum
split sorrel
You don't get it I think
vagrant quail
is someone from bloodmallet here ?
lusty fox
Good morning, I hope this is the correct place to ask this - I tried to sim the new sharpened blades, and the results seems weird to me (for example, 1 trait of BitS and 1 trait of sharpened sims better then double sharpened). Could it be that the current simc build is not yet optimized to utilize the sharpened blades trait properly (rotation wise)?
split sorrel
If you don't say what was your simc build we can't really help you.
There were a lot of changes the past days so 🤷
lusty fox
was using raidbots nightly, or are you asking about the specific char profile?
merry cloud
raidbots report has link to simc build that was used, you can check what "version" of simc that way
split sorrel
Then all the changes should be in, some things aren't fully optimised yet tho. Rest is related to your setup.
This channel isn't here for gearing help so you might want to continue in another channel :)
Although if you're able to pinpoint something wrong, do not hesitate to do it here.
lusty fox
ye, I wasn't trying to get gearing help - it just my logic says that if 1 rank of sharpened and 1 rank of BitS is better then having double BitS, then double sharpened also must be better... - this is why I thought something is wrong with the simc.
pine salmon
Hello. Sorry if I missed this in pins but did anyone make SNEK outlaw apl? Didn't find any. Again sorry if I am just dumb which I might actually be
late willow
What is the difference between an APL that has these lines (buff.loaded_dice.up|!buff.grand_melee.up&!buff.ruthless_precision.up) (buff.loaded_dice.up|!buff.grand_melee.up|!buff.ruthless_precision.up)
The first one I cant figure out what the logic its using would be
The second one would be Loaded Dice OR grand melee OR ruthless precision
The first one is from the default APL and the second one I changed to test something and gained 140 dps
boreal patrol
first one is correct, if you do not have 2 buffs, reroll either wenn you have loaded dice or NEITHER GM/RP
second one would be reroll with one buff and not GM up or not RP up, which is always true
late willow
Hmm
boreal patrol
whoops, edited, it would always be true
late willow
The whole line that gained me 140 dps is actions=variable,name=rtb_reroll,value=rtb_buffs<2&(buff.loaded_dice.up|!buff.grand_melee.up|!buff.ruthless_precision.up)
boreal patrol
interesting if that is an increase for you, what target error did you use?
boreal patrol
what profile and talents did you sim with? this might help with further research
late willow
It was with my gear
I tried it with default APL gear that is on the simulationcraft site
boreal patrol
@knotty oriole was also tinkering with Deadshott reroll logic the other day, maybe we can factor sth in from that
late willow
and it wasnt a gain
Yeah this is with 2x dead shot traits and 1x snake eyes but I only have the 1 snake eyes cause thats all Ive gotten lol
Meaning I would rather 3x dead shot
boreal patrol
btw, since that is always true actions=variable,name=rtb_reroll,value=rtb_buffs<2 should give the same result
knotty oriole
Using | twice there seems a little misleading
late willow
I was messing around with the logic because I'd think that having multiple dead shot relics would bump up TBs value
knotty oriole
But the main thing is that with Deadshot I believe it is looking that fishing for RP is likely a gain
Which I think that expression is getting indirectly
late willow
Hmm
knotty oriole
Or like Mystler said it’s basically fishing for 2 buffs but this is something we can investigate
late willow
Yeah
Just wanted to ask because if it was like a 5 dps gain it might not mean much but 140 is decently significant
knotty oriole
Something we can look into yeah.
I had some initial results on the weekend but did not have time to finish all the tests
late willow
Yeah reroll logic with some of the traits seems like it could be very interesting this expac
or a nightmare haha
tough hornet
I think with 3 Deadshot fishing for broadsides is worth
At least anecdotally it feels like it
fleet ice
Feelycraft yay
regal agate
you can check the apl for the recent improvements and use fixed_rtb to evaluate certain buff value (might require small apl changes)
tough hornet
so i took a look at the sequence table for my opener in a quick sim
doesnt seem very optimal, on the second dance the sim does SS SS evisc SS backstab evisc
which means it didnt have enough energy when entering dance to get 5 globals
this is a no buff sim so no bloodlust
it seems to priortize getting actions in SoD window as opposed to getting max actions in dance which is the opposite of what i thought we wanted
it looks like the majority of the dances are like this:
i suspect its not pooling enough before a dance
talents 2320012
late willow
It has to fit that second shadow dance inside of symbols, if you pool you wont fit it inside of symbols
tough hornet
yeah
but im saying this is also the case for just one dance outside of opener window
regal agate
you can try making the energy requirement for dance higher
i did that for non energy builds as this was the only ones i got dps improvements for
i assume 3x shadow strike trait could potentially change that behavior, feel free to play around and share your test results
boreal patrol
on a side node, pls do me favor and do not crop out the other columns when posting screenshots of sequences
tough hornet
yeah sure
proud falcon
Have not heard anything about this, and sorry if I'm not supposed to do this. It seems like shrouded suffocation is still bugged. If you apply 1-3 garrotes in subterfuge, and then apply another garrote outside of subterfuge, all of your garrotes lose the shrouded suffocation multiplier. The subterfuge multiplier still stays. I'm not at my pc so I can't link any logs, but it's very easily reproducible.
ruby narwhal
Was looking through the apl, since im stuck with 1 deadshot trait wondering how that affected rotation compared to 2 or more deadshot traits & found this: 0.00 between_the_eyes,if=azerite.deadshot.rank>=2&buff.roll_the_bones.up
BtE over RtB rerolls with 2+ Deadshot traits.
0.00 slice_and_dice,if=buff.slice_and_dice.remains<target.time_to_die&buff.slice_and_dice.remains<(1+combo_points)*1.8 K 14.58 roll_the_bones,if=(buff.roll_the_bones.remains<=3|variable.rtb_reroll)&(target.time_to_die>20|buff.roll_the_bones.remains<target.time_to_die) L 19.39 between_the_eyes,if=buff.ruthless_precision.up|azerite.ace_up_your_sleeve.enabled|azerite.deadshot.enabled BtE with the Ruthless Precision buff from RtB or with the Ace Up Your Sleeve or Deadshot traits.
Does this indeed mean that im not using BTE>Pistol shot, unless i have ruthless precision since i only have 1 ds trait?
Though in the sample table they're using bte, even though it's only 1 ds & no ruthless precision trait:
0:07.842 build E pistol_shot Fluffy_Pillow 134.4/150: 90% energy | 3.0/5: 60% combo_points bloodlust, adrenaline_rush, opportunity, grand_melee, roll_the_bones, alacrity(2), storm_of_steel, battle_potion_of_agility 0:08.647 finish L between_the_eyes Fluffy_Pillow 150.0/150: 100% energy | 5.0/5: 100% combo_points bloodlust, adrenalin
Sorry for above formatting
ruby narwhal
Cheers
knotty oriole
@ruby narwhal No it means that you don’t prioritize it over RtB rerolls unless you have 2 traits.
viral mist
Does Simcraft model the loaded dice trinket with stacking buffs?
knotty oriole
Yes
abstract viper
"Have not heard anything about this, and sorry if I'm not supposed to do this. It seems like shrouded suffocation is still bugged. If you apply 1-3 garrotes in subterfuge, and then apply another garrote outside of subterfuge, all of your garrotes lose the shrouded suffocation multiplier. The subterfuge multiplier still stays. I'm not at my pc so I can't link any logs, but it's very easily reproducible."
This is true and 100% reproductible
rough thunder
Hey guys. Could someone tell me how could I sim my azerite trait weights for this addon?
boreal patrol
we have plans to add azerite weights string support to HeroDamage very soon
rough thunder
Ah thx man. That would be great !
boreal patrol
if someone has a log for that Shrouded suffocation bug handy, that would be nice, so i can file a bug report. i don't have access to the power myself atm
late willow
Used it on the Org raid dummies where there are 3 of them so I could cast it on each of them
You can see how it drops off significantly when I cast that 3rd non-SS non-Subterfuge garrote
boreal patrol
nice, thank you
split sorrel
@rough thunder it's in
rough thunder
Thank you so much dude. Saw your comment on the addon page too
I guess you could pin a message here or somewhere. The addon and your string are the next CrucibleWeights / pawn
Ah you've posted it on tc-updates
split sorrel
😉
agile stone
Not sure if I'm being silly but I noticed on the Outlaw Sample APL it casts Adrenaline rush but remains in stealth where as in game you get kicked out of stealth
https://gyazo.com/2105bf3373f0772edd5ffdde5c3b4040
knotty oriole
Yeah it’s possible that needs to be updated
Not sure it makes a major difference for OL but should be fixed regardless
(DPS wise I mean)
plucky mural
@knotty oriole is there a way to take Sin apl and delay the vendetta at 2mins until vanish at 220 ish. But then on cd at 420 620
I have 3ss and desync of vendetta vanish isn't gonna be best.
plucky mural
current open has vanish delay for pandemic of SS open. which with double garrote is pretty far out.
The full vendetta overlaps ss, which is fine, you vanish reset, but the split at 2min - 220 can be re aligned, especially if there will be a 420 occurance.
thanks.
and the other thing i believe, is that a goal of 100pct EP uptime during SS would be valuable. so I will probably do 3+ env, and 2+ ruptures during SS clipped to keep that SS rolling .
modern jewel
im not sure if its enough for people to mess with but reroll logic for RTB can change with various buffs up AR/Lust etc. I personally sim about 20-30 dps higher than the current APL with just a change to in AR logic vs without.
outlaw
also removing vanish from the APL gives me an extremely minimal DPS gain
like 5
boreal patrol
did you try koji's updated APL yet? also 5 dps is probably within target error, so consider it neutral and not a gain
modern jewel
yea the new or old apl never considered roll differences within different buffs afaik
its minimal but it is def a gain
im fairly certain correct for me is RP/BS/GM within opener with lust etc then just RP within AR and then only 2+ with nothing
my apl seperates AR and non AR and its a 20-30 dps gain
i dont know enough to seperate all the different buffs like lust etc but if I do a very short sim at 40 seconds then including GM/BS/RP becomes the highest
by roughly 100 dps
boreal patrol
would you care to provide data like apl change and report?
modern jewel
the way i did it may not be ideal but sure
actions=variable,name=rtb_reroll,value=rtb_buffs<2&(buff.adrenaline_rush.up&!buff.ruthless_precision.up|!buff.adrenaline_rush.up)
thats what i changed to the original line and tested every buff with
40 second sims with default sim vs BS/GM/RP
boreal patrol
wait, that is not the change and scenario you posted before
boreal patrol
also you should run advanced sim on raidbots and compare the APLs directly
boreal patrol
<old apl>
copy=New_APL
<new apl>```thats the default vs my APL
ill try to set up an advanced
theres both
with 100k iterations .2% difference
boreal patrol
thanks
modern jewel
theres also def a difference for lust or something but i dont have the knowledge to mess with that in the APL
tawny prairie
i saw the latest rtb snake eye findings
here's something i was pondering, if you roll broadsides, would it not make sense to toss in a dispatch
for example you have 5 snek charges, you cast as twice, you are now basically 5 co. you still have 3 more snek charges
casting a dispatch would keep the damage up high and Keep the same flow as by the time you expend snek charges you are full cp again to reroll
and I'm pretty sure dispatch does more than ss still
food for thought.
I'm at work or I'd try to sim it
knotty oriole
The 3x Snake Eyes build with RtB casts Dispatch quite frequently because you don't want to waste Snake Eyes charges and it's quite possible to reach 5 CP without doing so with Broadside and other things
# Always reroll for 2+ buffs with Snake Eyes unless at 3 Ranks, then reroll everything.
actions+=/variable,name=rtb_reroll,op=set,if=azerite.snake_eyes.enabled,value=rtb_buffs<2|(azerite.snake_eyes.rank=3&rtb_buffs<5)
# Do not reroll if Snake Eyes is at 2+ Ranks and 2+ stacks of the buff (1+ stack with Broadside up)
actions+=/variable,name=rtb_reroll,op=reset,if=azerite.snake_eyes.rank>=2&buff.snake_eyes.stack>=2-buff.broadside.up
This results in quite a lot of Dispatch casts:
K 32.71 roll_the_bones,if=(buff.roll_the_bones.remains<=3|variable.rtb_reroll)&(target.time_to_die>20|buff.roll_the_bones.remains<target.time_to_die)
L 6.46 between_the_eyes,if=buff.ruthless_precision.up|azerite.ace_up_your_sleeve.enabled|azerite.deadshot.enabled
M 46.90 dispatch
So it's not really a case where you are spamming RtB every 5 CP
tawny prairie
ohh
ok ok
@knotty oriole was skipping bte on to tested? I'm curious if using bte even with rp is worth with 3 snake eyes
skipping bte on rp *
since you'd have to ss without snek to make up for the loss of cp
or am i misreading that
knotty oriole
Yes, I changed that later
Err wait
Yes, you still want to use BtE when you have RP
I moved the RP BtE up higher in the APL to account for that
Last night
tawny prairie
the sim came out higher huh?
knotty oriole
Yes, it's a gain
tawny prairie
interesting
knotty oriole
# Finishers
# BtE over RtB rerolls with 2+ Deadshot traits or Ruthless Precision.
actions.finish=between_the_eyes,if=buff.ruthless_precision.up|(azerite.deadshot.rank>=2&buff.roll_the_bones.up)
actions.finish+=/slice_and_dice,if=buff.slice_and_dice.remains<target.time_to_die&buff.slice_and_dice.remains<(1+combo_points)*1.8
actions.finish+=/roll_the_bones,if=(buff.roll_the_bones.remains<=3|variable.rtb_reroll)&(target.time_to_die>20|buff.roll_the_bones.remains<target.time_to_die)
# BtE with the Ace Up Your Sleeve or Deadshot traits.
actions.finish+=/between_the_eyes,if=azerite.ace_up_your_sleeve.enabled|azerite.deadshot.enabled
actions.finish+=/dispatch
Moved the RP condition up to the top BtE line
It was a 0.7% gain for 3x Snake Eyes
And a fair bit more for other combos
tawny prairie
i wonder how that works out raw math wise, does a 5 cp bte crit make up for all the lost snake ss
Cool. appreciate the breakdown.
knotty oriole
Well yeah I think, BtE has a very high DPET with RP up
tawny prairie
have we tries any combination of like double snek and ds?
knotty oriole
Average DPE for BtE is like 23k
tawny prairie
tried*
knotty oriole
With RP up
tawny prairie
that's pretty solid
yeah thatd take about 5-6 ss without snake to make up for that
so that actually makes a lot of sense
dreamy dome
is the buff present on laser matrix and archive of the titants traits take in to accoun on the HD sims?
*account
the buff being reorigination array
knotty oriole
No
sage escarp
I spent so much time trying to figure out new snek last night. Am I right that its RTB > SS to 5 combo > dispatch if you have snake charge, SS/op proc back to 5 cp reroll
I'm trying to figure out if letting oppurtuniy procs munch while i have snake eyes stacks up and only using them to when snake is down is better then using them as they proc
I think in cleave situations its better to ignore them and get out your Snake stacks while BF is active. Casting pistol shot during BF with snake stacks up can lead to BF ending while you still have snake charges
knotty oriole
I did not see a gain to ignore Opportunity procs
Seemed worth using Pistol Shot pretty much how you normally would
sage escarp
Theres really smooth combo generation in ignoring procs. Like you typically dispatch with 1 charge of snake, SS, opp proc back to 5 reroll repeat. But i can tell mathmathically if its a gain
okay thank the lord
I was up till 5 testing it out cuz I'm not familiar with the rogue APL syntax yet. Coming from day one mage player/simmer
knotty oriole
It's hard to give up the procs because of the free CP / damage bonus / reduced cost
It's still very efficient
Weaponmaster doesn't do anything super special in this build because it doesn't really magnify anything about the Snake Eyes bonus.. since extra Sinister Strike procs still just consume a charge of the buff like normal
sage escarp
Yeah it was trying to figure out if spending 20 energy on procs is a gain over spending it on charges asap
knotty oriole
So Quick Draw still has basically the same advantages as in the normal build
sage escarp
Yeah i learned that last night and went quick draw since
The idea of the build is to play like default outlaw, but rerolling everytime you get to 5cp and NO** snake charges. I was initially basing it off the meme build where you just ignore cp
right?
knotty oriole
Yes, it's pretty similar to the normal build
You just aggressively reroll
Basically keep no buffs, reroll when you have 5 CP and no Snake Eyes stacks
sage escarp
I liked playing with 2 snake 1 DS and hanging onto the 2 buff. But I sim 40dps higher with 3 snake
knotty oriole
Still use Between the Eyes on RP procs
And use Dispatch when you get to max CP and still have stacks
sage escarp
Yeah the way to look at it that helped me was to realize its just normal rotation but with a bonus to damage on rerolls
knotty oriole
Basically the main difference is that you don't really "save" any specific buff or wait for RtB to run out
sage escarp
THe APL lines you posted earlier with snake eyes, are they in the raidbots nightly? I checked the wiki last night and didnt see those lines
I know its literally just cicumstance of probability but I got 5 buffs multiple times running the 2 snake 1 DS and zero times running 3 snake.
sage escarp
I see it in the wiki ill just use that
knotty oriole
Yeah Wiki is updated
sage escarp
ahh always forget to add actions.cds+=/use_items to the apl
otherwise it doesnt use my galecaller
Sweet thanks a bunch took a load off my mind lol
Heads up DPS addons like Skada and Details dont register BR damage if your using snake gear for some reason
Actually i think its if you have SnD up
knotty oriole
strange
modern jewel
dropping this here in case anyone is as crazy as me
reroll logic for my 3x deadshot with lust and AR logic differences added
<2&(buff.adrenaline_rush.up&!buff.bloodlust.up&!buff.ruthless_precision.up|!buff.adrenaline_rush.up&!buff.bloodlust.up|buff.adrenaline_rush.up&buff.bloodlust.up&!buff.ruthless_precision.up&!buff.broadside.up&!buff.grand_melee.up|!buff.adrenaline_rush.up&buff.bloodlust.up&!buff.ruthless_precision.up)
knotty oriole
I feel like this some be some interaction/side effect that might not be related to the rerolling specifically
tawny prairie
so I believe, correct me if I'm wrong
that the reason we still like opp procs during snake eye charges
is we don't have the haste/mastery to sustain a full SS -> dispatch - > ss opp proc till 5cp into another rtb during bs or rp w/ bte
but if we got to the point where energy was almost a non issue
I think opp procs would be a dps loss
now, idk what that haste/mastery point would be
prolly too high to work haha
like.. you can actually see your active dps go down with tools like recount
when you use opp procs even with quickdraw
but it's more stable since your energy is also more controlled
knotty oriole
It's possible at some point perhaps, although the extra CP and damage multiplier doesn't hurt
fathom dock
is there a snake eyes apl?
regal agate
SnD Snake build:
apl: https://github.com/Ravenholdt-TC/Rogue/wiki/Outlaw-APL-Research
you need to change 2 lines:
The slice and dice line to:
actions.finish+=/slice_and_dice
and the pistol shot line to:
actions.build=pistol_shot,if=0
use 2x dagger, and 3x snake eyes trait.
snake eyes with RtB is optimized in the default apl
proven sparrow
Exsang APL could use some love, the opener essentially wastes vanish and unallignes all cds.
Opener should be something like Garrote>Garrote>Rupt>Vend>Exsang to use the subterfuge buff from first stealth, but now it just waits like 10 seconds with exsang to make sure you get a 5cp rupture inside vanish
boreal patrol
wastes a vanish? what is your suggestion? do not exanguinate a full pandemic rupture and do not use vanish until 48 seconds? when i checked that it turned out a noticeable loss
proven sparrow
Is it not worth it to just Exsang a 22 or 21 second garrote from your first stealth and then put up a vanish garrote afterwards so that vanish lines up with the 4:th exsang again at 2.25?
boreal patrol
checking that (exsg after vendetta, then vanish at the end of the first bleeds) seems even more of a loss
proven sparrow
Does that not make them line up later or is it irrelevant? 🤷 Just seems like its so inefficient but if its the best
torn dome
Quick test gives 1.3 increase for opening with
garr rup garr ven mut rup exs
Then vanish into double garr when this runs out
Then can sync vanish at 2:15 easily with exs
But forces the opener
knotty oriole
@torn dome Instead of using time conditions, potentially could update the vanish line to check for the presence of a garrote pmultiplier? Also, does the stealth/SS condition really need time or does it just need to check time<5 or can that be turned into some general case rule based on !dot.rupture.ticking?
torn dome
I just quickly threw that together
To see how it would be dps wise
And I dont think !rup works cause you go garr rup garr
knotty oriole
Well Garrote would happen first anyway
torn dome
Yea but what about the second one then?
knotty oriole
P 1.74 garrote,cycle_targets=1,if=talent.subterfuge.enabled&refreshable&(!exsanguinated|remains<=tick_time*2)&target.time_to_die-remains>2
Q 0.11 garrote,cycle_targets=1,if=talent.subterfuge.enabled&remains<=10&pmultiplier<=1&!exsanguinated&target.time_to_die-remains>2
R 1.00 rupture,if=talent.subterfuge.enabled&azerite.shrouded_suffocation.enabled&time<5&dot.garrote.ticking
S 3.23 garrote,cycle_targets=1,if=talent.subterfuge.enabled&azerite.shrouded_suffocation.enabled&target.time_to_die>remains
The opener sequence is using P -> R -> S there, so seems like you could put that conditional on R and get "P = Garrote isn't up, do that first.. R = Rupture isn't up yet, let's put that up... S = Ok, we have both of those up so we'll do Garrote again since we have SS"
I'd imagine if it works in the opener it should work at any point right?
If Rupture is already down
torn dome
Noted
knotty oriole
Wanted to be able to control that one seperately
torn dome
Yea I suppose you dont call S other than on the opener
Or is that on every vanish actually
Yea
With ss enabled it doesnt seem to ever call the last garrote line
knotty oriole
Yeah probably doesn't get there since it already ends up using Garrote again anyway
boreal patrol
so, i tried to reproduce that without time conditions and still end up in a 3% loss, does sb spot if i missed sth?
ahh, got it, forgot to remove a condition from an earlier test
knotty oriole
Nice yeah, globally applying those pmultiplier/ticking rules is even a larger gain I guess?
boreal patrol
phew, ok, i think i got it implemented in a way that works and does not break other builds
knotty oriole
Go team!
proven sparrow
I seem to be getting around a 0.5% increase by forcing second vendetta to line up with vanish+exsang at 2.15, but then if i force it to line up with the third vanish aswell its neutral again 🤔
torn dome
It doesnt happen automatically with the changes mystler made?
proven sparrow
No
knotty oriole
Keep in mind that some of those types of changes will also vary on fight length so it can be a bit of a rabbit hole
proven sparrow
Yeah ik
boreal patrol
looking into it right now
boreal patrol
ok, got another increase for both exsg and non-exsg
plucky mural
for me. the most important part of the SS use, (with or without exsang, will be realignment of vanish vendetta at 220 ish.
thanks for that update.
looks good.
mossy hearth
repost from #assassination
anyone know if the sim casts poison knife during vanish if nightstalker is talented into
or the crit one for that matter
with sharpened blades
before i start exploring
knotty oriole
I tried it the other day and it seemed to be a loss. Although I couldn't really quite figure out why since its DPET should be higher than Rupture
tawny prairie
does that mean
knotty oriole
But I need to investigate it some more
tawny prairie
the apl is not registering it right?
mossy hearth
no it just means that potentially holding ur 30s for vanish is a loss
or using it with 10-15 stacks during vanish is also loss
knotty oriole
Yeah it could just be a timing/stack issue
It's on my list of things to investigate some more
mossy hearth
most likely, in which case you need to make a somewhat long condition for using it during vanish
craggy zephyr
weird, quick draw sims higher than weapon master with 3x snake eyes rtb build
tawny prairie
yeah
makes sense tho
since with rtb snake eye you are expending all your opp procs and using dispatch to get rid of the excess cp you generate
it's also because we do not have enough haste/mastery to sustain a pure Snek into rtb reroll setup
craggy zephyr
true
tawny prairie
so you don't lose any downtime by clearing your opp procs and dispatching extra CP with pistol shot
essentially, rtb snake eye is regular rtb build, except bad rolls don't hurt as much
and good rolls don't help as much
you sacrifice your upper for a better lower
craggy zephyr
it's pretty cool tbh, not being so rng oriented
tawny prairie
and slightly less overall dps if DS gets optimal rolls
Yeah, it's a nice alternate build
craggy zephyr
i only have one deadshot so for me it's the best
wicked pelican
I just realized that was my answer to not hating rtbs anymore
Ive been snd cause i hste rtbs, but a snek build could make me happy with bones
tawny prairie
for sure mate
tough hornet
does archive of the titans sim with reorigination array?
its +75 highest secondary stat in uldir
knotty oriole
Not yet
vagrant quail
hey guys with one i should use ?
AzeritePowerWeights:1:"herodamage.com - Stacks or AzeritePowerWeights:1:"herodamage.com - Levels ?
split sorrel
^
regal agate
use the wights as a estimate and a sim for final decision if you are not sure
hard vessel
is simc updated with the reroll changes for outlaw
regal agate
yes
grizzled void
how does one reference snake eyes stacks in simc? I tried buff.snake_eyes, got error :/
plucky mural
@grizzled void it is in the conditions section for finishers of the apl
should see 3x reference roll for 5b
etc
grizzled void
what? that's not the buff, that's the trait
plucky mural
ah
grizzled void
oh no wait
you're right I see it, good eye
buff.snake_eyes.stack>=2
did I simulate the "don't reroll until you've expended all the snake eyes buffs" change in this sim? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/e1VL4eczxLJdqZEjvP3Hrv
eh nah, something's off
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rzRhogWjEedNghYFRLRuHB okay this one looks better, still not sure it's a good APL change though
fathom dock
quick question. when i do a quick sim my azerite traits are not included? like when i do top gear and click what azerite traits i use i get a higher sim
is that normal
neat obsidian
Hello, trying to figure out how the sims are handling the Uldir azerite traits. So my 355 azerite chest from Uldir is simming highest by about half percent (no deadshot luck in Kings Rest), is that reliable for M+ as well, or are the sims assuming you are in Uldir and getting the Reorigination Array? In which case for M+ it might be better to swap out and use a 340 chest?
fathom dock
nvm , simc not up to date
regal agate
The spell data overrides for the hotfix (if you want to sim on raidbots now).
Keep in mind that those might require additional apl changes.
override.spell_data=effect.729242.coefficient=0.883436
override.spell_data=effect.725028.coefficient=2.50307
override.spell_data=effect.734530.coefficient=4.10429```They can uses the new APL by copy/pasting it until then.
tough hornet
i know the new class tuning changes arent in effect till sept 11, is there a way to override spell_data (like above) to simulate them until then?
knotty oriole
It will already be in the nightly build
tough hornet
the one currently on raidbots? or tomorrow night
knotty oriole
It is available now
tough hornet
thanks :)
knotty oriole
np
quick otter
Is the exsang build ahead by a large amount ? Can't Sim my character right now :(
teal wolf
sage escarp
Two of those override lines a 5% reduction in damage for outlaw / sub?
split sorrel
And on HD once I wake up :D
sage escarp
Full ace gear is simming 375 dps higher under weekly than nightly.
oh wait
thats the 5% nerf
Forgot about that 😦
regal agate
raidbots nightly has the 5% damage and the traits nerfs, weekly has none of both
split sorrel
ace should still be behind by a small amount
HD should be updated in ~120s or so, will put a message once it'll be
abstract viper
Yo
is it possible to alter the exsang apl with galecallers boon to synch vanish exsang with galecallers
im fairly certain this would be a dps up
as we need to wait to sync vanish and vendetta exsangs anyways
plucky mural
The apl has never synced /use trinkets mid block.
tough hornet
its a pretty simple change if you want to test: change actions.cds+=/use_item,name=galecallers_boon to
actions.cds+=/use_item,name=galecallers_boon,if=debuff.vendetta.up
sage escarp
acitons.cds+=/use_items
will do it all in one line
oh just read what you wanted it to do lol
ON Herodamage which string should we be copying to azeritepowerweights stack or ilvl?
abstract viper
@tough hornet wanna link the sim?
abstract viper
im curious why casting galecallers 10 sec before second vanish would be more beneficial than stacking it 10 sec later with the exsang
your apl casts galecallers only on vendetta
it misses the casts between
tough hornet
oops yeah a bit more complex condition then
knotty oriole
Stacking on top of Exsang doesn't really do anything as long as it's up when you use Exsang
Because Exsang snapshots haste
So if you were going to try to do something like this you'd probably ideally want to use it a little before Exsang
tough hornet
how's this @abstract viper https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/pcxzRSyG4DHRNcuH9ooRwo/simc
this tries to fit galecallers into every vendetta and uses it if vendetta will still be on cd or active for 10s left when galecallers becomes available again
actions.cds+=/use_item,name=galecallers_boon,if=debuff.vendetta.up|cooldown.vendetta.remains>50
knotty oriole
I'd expect that to end up pretty much the same anyway since it should all overlap around the same timing either way
plucky mural
The 10 sec of galecallers or any use trinket overlapping vendetta vanish exsang will be important.
regal agate
just had a quick look.
and yes it seems to be a win to sync it.
apl change: actions.cds+=/use_item,name=galecallers_boon,if=cooldown.vendetta.remains<=1&dot.garrote.pmultiplier>1|cooldown.vendetta.remains>45
report: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ug8oQJW4DMQCfUqWYYcvJQ
probably the same with some other on use trinkets too.
boreal patrol
thanks for the input, pushed an update for that trinket
plucky mural
@regal agate since the t <45, it will use at the 1:05 mark exsang and the 2:25 alignment, correct?
and as koji said, it must be prior to the exang.
regal agate
it syncs galecallsers with vendetta not exsang
forcing it to align to exsang seems to be a loss
plucky mural
I see that. I guess it will be hard to save the exang for the GC due to 45s/ 1min.
the 225 looks good at least.
I know that the exang vendetta vanish sync stops in apl at 225. but I expect this specific synergy to be a gain throughout the duration. We will probably see logs doing this.
I know it cuts out a few unbuffed exsang over time.
but nbd. its closer.
regal agate
holding exsang for galecallers is a loss too
plucky mural
if all future vendetta vanishes gc/ ex are aligned? all the way through the fight?
like 120 220 320 420 etc
I know we are dropping exsangs, but the 420 620 vanish alignment is gonna be huge
looks like this
regal agate
i just tried to hold exsang like you pointed out in pic 2 up to 10-20 secs, but this resulted in a higher loss.
plucky mural
he borked the mid block
this rotation at >6:40 fight length will be nice
when they are aligned we will hit gc/ex vendetta vanish gc ex. gc/ex. all the way through.
that second peak is literally just this.
abstract viper
fetid takes increased damage in the last peak
plucky mural
thanks.
i didnt know that
mother/ fetid/ghuun?
if stuff doesnt align into a good rotation, Its going to get super wonky. will have to adjust to fight timing mechanics, and vuln phases at the same time.
@regal agate how much loss is "higher loss" , and is that 3 SS profile?
regal agate
i used the same profile and it was ~3% loss compared to the default
plucky mural
3% sucks.
regal agate
there are other constrants too, like exsang conditions be worse
plucky mural
the shitty part, is now that use condition would probably apply to any /use trinket with 1 or 2min cd.
cause my 2min crit trinket is like 15 sec, but would need to overlap the exang. 12sec
regal agate
its only hase, and we have only 2 haste use trinkets, i tested the other one and it seems to be no win
knotty oriole
It's probably still way more valuable to keep the trinket aligned with Vendetta than Exsang
Even given the Exsang snapshot
merry pike
jw if there is anything going on to more accurately simulate the dps gain from uldir neutral traits that get more powerful per kill u get
basically rn im just simming with the trait on and getting the stat weight x stat as a rough estimate of the bonus array
dont think theres a good way in the game of figuring out exactly how much u get without entering a raid and hittin a boss
knotty oriole
It's 75 of your highest secondary stat
languid stratus
hey guys maybe a stupid question and i hope im asking in the right channel but does hero damage azarite sim take the reorigination array in its sims? its the uldir trait bonus thing
knotty oriole
No
brisk wadi
In opener, APL is refreshing the exsang'd rupture when it's still in pandemic range. https://gyazo.com/aa17d6f539888d8245ea1fefa04bfd9e
doesnt this override the more powerful rupture and is a dmg loss? or do you keep the remaining seconds of exsang rupture when you pandemic refresh it
boreal patrol
where do you see it override the rupture?
boreal patrol
oh right, it is only waiting for garrote to run off for the vanish sequence
delaying vanish even further means you would delay vendetta even further later on
brisk wadi
yeah but it should vanish , refresh garrote and just mutilate instead right?
boreal patrol
yes, probably
brisk wadi
maybe it's not a dps gain 🤔 you probably have to do a 3 point rupture after that
would be good to check tho
junior light
Is it normal to get <10k iterations (with the notification that results may not be reliable) on Raidbots even when you have selected fixed 50k iterations? I was running a sim for MT spec with 5 bosses patchwerk, 5 min fight duration and found this a bit confusing to have less iterations what I've chosen
boreal patrol
hm, that sounds strange, probably a question for the raidbots discord
junior light
Thanks, gonna head there, gotta verify first though I'm still getting that situation
regal agate
iirc raidbots caps on a certain target error (0.05% or so), but its probably better to ask in the raidbots support discord.
green siren
Since I can’t post in research figures I would post it here. Herodamage still only shows the 9/7 simulations. No matter what browser I use it won’t refresh to 9/8. I do see it wants to load 9/8, but when the site finishes refreshing it shows 9/7.
boreal patrol
this is weird, did you try Ctrl+F5? maybe some CDN hiccup, chache should be cleared every update usually :/
split sorrel
What browser @green siren ? Firefox ?
green siren
Opera, Firefox, chrome, safari, with and without adblockers on all. Also tried it on my iPad and iPhone. It might be OS specific. I use a Mac, so latest version of High Sierra.
I also just tried it on my laptop with Ubuntu on it and I get the same problem of not seeing the 9/8 data
split sorrel
What page ?
green siren
Rogue
split sorrel
weird, will see I'll push a new update in few hours
green siren
Cool thanks.
misty dawn
hey guys, does anyone know if simming with tripple snake eye traits knows if it'll be rerolling to keep buff 100% upotime?
plucky mural
You'll never have 100% snake uptime if you use your last charge prior to rolling.
misty dawn
i use last charge into roll
dreamy kindle
Looks like on Bloodmallet Lion's Guile and Doom's Wake sim differently, should they not sim exactly the same?
misty dawn
other then opener my SS wil always have snake eyes on
proven sparrow
@dreamy kindle They are the exact same, the difference is just inbetween the target error for the sims
If you sim your character multiple times you'll see very minor differences as well (raidbots has 0.05% i think?)
dreamy kindle
Yea I knew there was a margin of error when simming a character, didn't know it carried over to trinket sims.
wooden acorn
question on simc APL
ignoring MfD part,
can anyone explain why
call_action_list,name=finish,if=combo_points>=cp_max_spend-(buff.broadside.up+buff.opportunity.up)(talent.quick_draw.enabled)
not
call_action_list,name=finish,if=combo_points>=cp_max_spend-buff.broadside.up-(buff.opportunity.up)(talent.quick_draw.enabled)
cuz i donno why the quick_draw condition is multiplied to bs
jovial frost
anyone know why the APL sequence uses Galecallers boon after the second Garotte? I was under the impression it snapshotted. Unless rupture is the only spell that snapshots?
boreal patrol
no, exsanguinate snapshots the haste state when you use it, the dot itself does not
jovial frost
So how does exsanguinate work. It reapplies the dot with half duration and 2x the damage ticks right? That reapplication snapshots.
Correct?
boreal patrol
no, damage does not change it just ticks at half the interval. beyond that it is even more tricky (since the introduction of hasted bleeds) because Exsg does some tick rounding and reschedules the ticks in a way that you always end on a full tick (no partial)
jovial frost
So bottom line is use vendetta and trinkets right before exsanguinate
plucky mural
thats a good plan. esp if your /use is 1min or 2min and can align with vanish.
winged moth
is tehre a reeason on raidbots the tool tip for SS trait is 64 dmg and not 511?
stray portal
Is there an option to test the uldir traits with reorigination array active?
regal agate
you can add the stats to your sim
idle bolt
About the SS garote bug: i assume i can overwrite non-SS garote w/ vanish ones and not fuck SS up ?
next scarab
Harlan's Loaded Dice can't proc anymore single buffs. It only procs 3 buffs and rarely so.
Is this accounted for in sims? I feel is heavly nerfed but it still sims super high
boreal patrol
yes it is and afaik it has always worked like that
fathom dock
Yeah, and they can stack if you roll more than once
west prism
Last time i checked i had around 30% uptime on the dice in m+
rugged steeple
Hey guys, Any idea how you can remove a spell from the apl to sim it?
maiden cargo
depends on the conditions for that spell, simply deleting that line might have sloppy consequences
rugged steeple
yeah i figured
maiden cargo
Trying to remove pistol shot?
rugged steeple
lol yep