idk maybe a disclaimer somewhere would help people
#tc-research
novel lava
regal agate
you think this text would be appropriate?
boreal patrol
good idea fuu, we should put that on the TC site
novel lava
you’re right, everybody reads the small print when they have big bars they can look at instead
having all the data available for 1 setup, and none for the other which is what we’ll be progressing with, doesn’t seem like the best way to help people
boreal patrol
[5:45 PM] Mystler: sure, as i said we plan to release more of those
just be patient 😉
there will be more ST sims, and we have different MT fightstyles in the pipeline as well once Aethys new CPU is ready
knotty oriole
You know, I spent about 6 hours yesterday putting together an IKEA bunk-bed, so I'm not sure I agree 😄
split sorrel
Currently deciding where I drill to fix the rad and the pump!
ashen crater
How do I add the improved windwalking buff to a sim? I want to test it with outlaw boots.
split sorrel
Add a speed enchant on an item
noble osprey
is there a way to look at the profile for the gloves mantle simulation?
calm aspen
Hello, I'm trying to download the SimC file and unzipping to get it open
I'm stuck ,need help please!
lime fox
also wouldnt mind seeing the profile for t21 gloves/mantle if anyone knows where to find it
gray flume
Are other people seeing that no grouping of heroic T21 is simming higher for you than maintaining 4pc T20? I’m simming with mantle/gloves, but haven’t changed talents yet from the relatively standard Sub build.
lime fox
i simmed t21 mythic 4p over my current gear, gaining 9 avg ilvl was a 50k dps loss
havent tried over variants
both with gloves/mantle
storm vault
gray flume
Even if I simulate full mythic tier outlaw w/ bis relics and level 75 weapon, it doesn’t catch up to where I’m at with Sub right now.
...with zero Antorus gear
tawny arch
^
and even that’s slightly outdated since outlaw is apparently like 50k ahead atm
But I mean who’s knows what will happen with tuning of t21 and aura buffs in the next like 2 weeks
drowsy surge
We seen sin at the top then sub most recently I wouldn't be mad if it was outlaws turn
fallen pebble
!sim us/azralon/Insaane
vagrant cobaltBOT
Please run that command for me in the #bot-spam channel!
@fallen pebble
merry pike
I would kiss someone for updates crucible string legendary combos 😊
maiden cargo
@floral acorn 💋
split sorrel
you know, you can also contribute to simcscripts so it's automatically simmed and displayed on the tc website 😉
and if some display are missing, you can also add it to the tc website source code
it's all open source 😃
urban cargo
Anyone here using the CrucibleWeights addon? I found all the values in the spreadsheet for each trait and crucible trait but the weapon iLvL was only worth 0,13%
Im just wondering if I should put in 0.13 at the iLvl window ingame when putting in values? Or do I need to calculate what that is worth when comparing to the other trqits cause 0.13 seems BAAAAD when other cruicble tier 2 traits and at 53.41 or something
maiden cargo
Hi if i go to simcraft site i Can see what tier Pieces sub sims with for 4 set, however not for 2 set. Do anyone know what gear profile is used for 2piece t21+2 piece t20?
maiden cargo
No but i mean what pieces of t21 i used together with what Pieces of t20
light void
those that avoid haste
molten spindle
I'm assuming Simc currently only sims the Pantheon trinks based on no one else having one, is there a snippet I can use to emulate my raid having varied #'s of them?
regal agate
the simulation chart on rh have diffrent trinket setups:
tho you can map any trinket distribution with the folowing command:
legion.pantheon_trinket_users=
folowed by <first + secound letter of trinket name> and a / as seperator
molten spindle
Thank you!
regal agate
legion.pantheon_trinket_users=ag/ag/eo/eo/eo/eo/go/go/go/go/kh/kh/kh/kh/no/no/no/no/no
legion.pantheon_trinket_users=am/am/am/am/am/am/am/am/am/am/am/am/am/am/am/am/am/am/am
2 examples
added it to the simc command list
floral acorn
@maiden cargo i fnished running em, just updating atm
maiden cargo
You are an amazing person thanks alot
split sorrel
@regal agate you forgot haste modifiers
regal agate
huh?
split sorrel
Aggramar 1.4
Aman'thul 1.4
Golganneth 1.8 x haste
Eonar 1.2 x haste
Khaz'goroth 1.4
Norgannon 1.4
Golga & Eonar are hasted
so you want to specificy the haste for them
so you have the real rppm
and not the base one
regal agate
oh, how to add them to the sim?
regal agate
ok, thanks, will add
split sorrel
regal agate
😳 forgot to check the wiki
floral acorn
@maiden cargo updated
modest ravine
👊
serene edge
Hello. How do I see the gear and further sim info on the different builds? I see the tier 21 Sims and their damage/talents, but how do I see gear equipped and stat amounts?
boreal patrol
there is no special view for the gearsets as my script combines them without us having detailed reports atm
we have plans to extend those views and display gearsets in the future
trail jolt
Odd. Thank you buddy
shrewd citrus
!trinkets
steel zealotBOT
List of trinkets for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/
fiery tangle
so right now im simming with 1439322 dps and with sholders and gloves and with insigna ring and sholders atm since i dont got the tier sholders i get 1566221 dps
plucky mural
was there a question?
ashen crater
@fiery tangle
I've been simming higher with insignia of ravenholdt + shoulders than with hands + shoulders for the past couple months. The legendaries are close enough that your other gear can tip the balance of which ones sim best.
tawny arch
Yep, shoulders/glovesa re still 10k ahead for me, but thats real close
shrewd citrus
!trinkets
steel zealotBOT
List of trinkets for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/
maiden cargo
@split sorrel
https://gyazo.com/ec495a43a9979922082243b9cf5f12ae
Hi, sub APL is doing this currently, is it normal to double BS before DfA with SoD on 3rd SoD GCD?
maiden cargo
Why wouldn't you BS>SoD>BS>DFA?
torn dome
And waste all of gloves?
maiden cargo
Wouldn't energetic gain and sod being used only 2gcd before dfa better?
torn dome
- Sod on cd
- You still cover dance
maiden cargo
But you may also not cover finality on dfa
torn dome
Apl never was about finality
maiden cargo
Hem...yes thats why im here talking
torn dome
You asked whats the double bs for
maiden cargo
Yeah
@torn dome
surely that cant be good
Missing a shadowstrike due to energy level
torn dome
Not energy. Something else. And you should bug fuu about it. He upkeeps sub
regal agate
@maiden cargo was no win to add a condition to dfa with 5 cp's
2nd pic showes evi quite long after shadowstrike so it cant put in another ss (shd ended before)
torn dome
But it wastes gloves
regal agate
ye i need to look into it
regal agate
but i am not sure why it does evi that late during shd
torn dome
Thats another weird part ye
regal agate
evi is 35 energy and it evis at 48
sht proc + ticks of t20 can make the energy lvl higher, but this seems a bit off
@maiden cargo can you link me the report?
maiden cargo
Think it's default profile
regal agate
would be nice if you could link the report or profile
regal agate
k
torn dome
You can dfa at 0 and do full rotation afaik
regal agate
no^^
regal agate
added a condition to fix the 5 cp vanish for handst, it does not gain dps while creating noise in the apl that already is hard to read.
light void
got a question tho
not rogue related
if you got for example the soul-ring on a class where it adds 0 damage to ST
you could expect similar simresults if you use a utility legendary instead
(obv if the pieces you would switch out are equal)
am I right?
regal agate
some classes benefit well from legendary items like prydaz or sephuz
a non dps legendary can be decent/good on other classes
light void
the example there was the soul-ring on frost dk. it gives you a skill you will never use on ST.
on the other hand you got for example the plate-boots as another choice
you could expect similar results from it I guess, maybe the boots are a bit better bcs of the str, but you know what I mean
regal agate
every legendary has also a different stat budget that contributes to the overall impact
leaden terrace
what I think is my best trink isnt in the trinket list. Do you think its sim-able, or should I toss it and move on?
ashen crater
I just compared it to a 910 eye of command on my sub rogue and it's about 13k worse. Close enough I'd recommend you sim it though.
lofty kiln
The question is if anyone bothered implementing the proc effect
It's possible that it's taking into account just the stats
ashen crater
Yeah the fel barbs contributed 0.9% dmg
leaden terrace
Dumb sim question, but where do you find the codes for other trinkets to test them?
I too am getting about .9% from the barbs as assassination
jade berry
you can find them on wowhead
like if you search arcano crystal, theres a grey links button on the right side of the page
it has a simcraft format of however you ahve the item rolled ex: trinket1=unstable_arcanocrystal,id=141482,bonus_id=3466/1472
or the simulationcraft addon can give you the info from everything in your inventory
unkempt comet
Is it possible to get the trinket strings used for the ravenholdt sims so I can plug it into my character profile and sim it or should I just use raidbots gear compare? I feel like the first option would give me a more accurate idea of what ilvl X trinket needs to be
I'm not a super advanced user of simcraft so I'm not sure how to snag it myself
split sorrel
use simcscripts
unkempt comet
ok tyvm
wait, is that straight up simscript.com or is this something entirely different?
unkempt comet
like i said, I'm not familar with advanced sims, I mostly know how to copy and paste simc info
split sorrel
simcscripts on github
but u need ruby to run it
so it's not very "noob friendly"
but not very hard too
unkempt comet
Ok, I imagine I can find a tutorial or something. Ty
boreal patrol
if you just want trinket strings you can also get them from wowhead (links button on the item page)
unkempt comet
I was just hoping to get the input you used for the ravenholdt trinket sims so I could get all the ilvl variations and even the pantheon trinket stuff but like I said, I'm not really acquainted with simcraft as far as advanced scripts go. I mostly just copy/paste strings from the rogue pins for like talents etc
split sorrel
it uses profilesets
so you'll likely not be able to use it in simc gui like you might think
to display it like on the website, you have to uses a script that generate some data, then generate some other file (a view, i.e. an html file) to display them
it's not hard to do if u're a dev / used to setup things (readme contains everything you should know), although as a beginner it might be hard
boreal patrol
oh, yeah, you should checkout our scripts then https://github.com/Ravenholdt-TC/SimcScripts
note to self: the readme is not perfectly up-to-date anymore
running a personalized trinket sim is not hard though, in fact, if you are able to setup ruby, you can just drop your character profile to a file and let the script calculate
you should be able to open the csv result in any spreadsheet software
unkempt comet
Hmmm, yea I have very limited knowledge of ruby. Its used for alot of the custom scripts in RPG maker, so I have seen it and modified it before, just never written anything from the ground up
wispy badger
what gear sets were used for the heroic sims on ravenholdt? just like the ones on simc just 15ilvl below?
split sorrel
😃
calm sinew
When I download simulationcraft nightly build, I usually grab the .exe (because I don't care about the .7z and extracting).... But what on earth is the .dmg file?
kindred epoch
the .exe equivalent for macintosh/apple i think
bitter moon
!trinkets
steel zealotBOT
List of trinkets for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/
abstract creek
Regarding engine sims - does simc calculates that you collect all 4 orbs without loosing dps?
torn dome
yes
regal agate
you can alter the amount of orbs in the simulation if you want, the command for it is pinned
covert trout
is this 7.3.0 the actual simcraft version or some one have a link for me for the actual one
boreal patrol
for desktop simc, i recommend to get a nightly from here http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D
vagrant quail
Did rogue sims tested the T2 Crusible ring ? if any combinations of relics make it usable ?
vagrant quail
what are the T2 used in those sims ?
vagrant quail
but for sin MasterOfShadows is ahead and scales well
maybe it could change the numbers ?
from 1500 mastery to 2250 with the ring
boreal patrol
crucible is always used with the spec profiles t2 traits which are the best for each
for assa it also distinguished between poison and exsg
poison is MoS, exsg shocklight
vagrant quail
hum good to know so ring is just bad...
willow pecan
@manic pulsar
I've been playing around with simming now
and i'm trying to figure if subterfuge or Nightstalker is better for Sin. without shoulders.
but i'm looking at the NS opener and this is kinda weird.
what's this poison knife for?
manic pulsar
@willow pecan that's probably in there from back when agonizing poison was a thing - I need to update that part of the opener.
willow pecan
i see
btw, we've reached the day where AMR gives me higher output than SimC
SimC need a bit of work on sin APL as well 😅
manic pulsar
heh, well, I can update that tomorrow - assassin opener generally makes a pretty small difference on overall DPS, it's really in there for fun
I assume your guide has what you'd consider is the latest and greatest?
maiden cargo
hey guys, when simming with raidbots my stat weights have a lot of variance from sim to sim, is that normal
willow pecan
@manic pulsar well i'm working on updating it right now, and we're trying to figure out an opener for subterfuge with TB without shoulders
since boots/wrist seems to give better results
i haven't add anything about it yet
willow pecan
awesome
so far what i'm using is:
Garrote > KB > Mut > vendetta > rupture > TB > Mut > envenom >>>>> vanish when Garrote is in pandemic range and not at full CPs > garrote
manic pulsar
I wonder if using KB before vendetta is maybe going to lose damage overall?
willow pecan
That's what wEak is thinking as well
steel zealotBOT
List of trinkets for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/
mortal cobalt
is there a way to view the exact gear behind the ravenholdt sims?
split sorrel
Not yet directly
It's something I'm currently working on actively
But it equires a lot of changes in SimC report system since I don't want to rely on input
For now you can check the input on simcscripts repo
sweet sorrel
Hello guys.. is there a gear list already?
verbal latch
No there isn't dues to WF/TF, but get your stats weight and keep simming yourself after few pieces to get the rough idea of your top two stats
fair crow
!legendary
verbal latch
@fair crow Check the spec channel pinned for legendaries list
manic pulsar
@willow pecan I posted an update to the rotation that took out that out-dated case with poisoned knife. I also did some toying around with the opener. I find the best opener to be:
Garrote, Mutilate, Rupture, Vendetta, Toxic Blade, Kingsbane, Mutilate, Envenom - into normal rotation (which would refresh garrote with vanish, like you mentioned).
I tried your opener and it's really close in damage to this one. It's actually a bit tricky to test because the changes are so small. I set the fight length to 60 seconds to test, so that KB would be used exactly 3 times and Vendetta 2 times regardless of when I used them in the opener. If I test on a longer fight with fight variance, Using KB and/or Vendetta earlier in the opener can result in an extra use of either once in a while, which negates any gain from the opener.
If you're looking for pure opener damage, though, I think the one I just posted is going to be it.
(this is all for the non-mantle case you were talking about yesterday)
willow pecan
@torn dome
torn dome
sounds about right
willow pecan
@manic pulsar thanks, really appriciate it 🙂
weak has been working on trying to figure how why does garrote sim better than NS without T20
it sims higher in AMR as well
maybe you've got some insight into this
manic pulsar
I don't think I have a particular insight - that's one of those things that's too hard to figure out without a simulator 😉
visual umbra
My NLC traits are not updating properly when I bring up /simc and paste into Raidbots
says they are up to date but do not load when I sim
modest ravine
@tulip nest
visual umbra
What am I doing wrong ?
tulip nest
Can you link a report?
tulip nest
Can you paste your /simc input to pastebin or similar?
tulip nest
I'll dig a bit more
Do you know off the top of your head if you're running the latest version of the simc addon?
visual umbra
Alright, I’ll tag you in a bit once available
tulip nest
(aka do you use the twitch client and obsessively update like i do)
visual umbra
Mmm probably not actually
I use wowmatrix and it typically doesn’t update the simc addon
tulip nest
If you have a pretty old version of the SimC addon it might not be capturing crucible info at all
visual umbra
There’s a good chance of it
Manually updating add ons is a pain
and I don’t use Twitch at all
visual umbra
Seriallos - just had to update it - all good now
civic fiber
!simc
steel zealotBOT
How to sim yourself - guide: https://goo.gl/YACUkz
Download simulationcraft: https://simulationcraft.org/
Or use Raidbots: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot
tight trench
Any idea why the Cradle of Anguish buff isnt showing up in my sims Buffs tab?
ashen crater
I think it shows up in the same place as food and flask buffs since it has 100% uptime in sims.
harsh bison
My sim says I should be pulling almost 1.1 mil but I'm really pulling like 750k D;
jolly wraith
Haven't found it through searching this channel, but is it possible to change the sim-iterations via the discord-enabled simming bot? If yes, what's the command?
My current workaround is by using raidbots.com itself
-i 50000 ?
cerulean bramble
I keep trying to find an answer but I'm a blind retard, does simcraft assume amount of pantheon users in sims?
Simmed my GO
timid rampart
If you use raidbots you can select how many ppl in your raidgroup use the legendary trinket
regal agate
yes 2nd pin has the command
modern stream
i simmed my char with raidbots and shadowcraft and get vastly different stat weights. which one should i trust?
modern stream
alright, thanks
outer kite
Mantle is suppose to be BiS for single
but I sim way lower with it
should I always just trust the sims ?
torn dome
Mantle is in the top setup?
ripe imp
Why are you only wearing 1 legendary? Or am i missing something
junior snow
how do i sim my own weights for netherlight crucible addon?
split sorrel
guess
grave haven
or it's just for AOE I guess
I thought at first glance that shadow gestures is not properly used
torn dome
Its to prevent low cp finishing with tier proc up
boreal patrol
yes, was about 5-6k dps increase for default profile
grave haven
@boreal patrol thank you
outer kite
@ripe imp I duplicated my original gear set alreadt, whic has gloves and wrists, I replaced wrists and added Mantle to all the other gear templates
ran it again but in different stats just to see
do I trust the guides or the sims
fierce dune
anyone know if raidbots take into account the bonus crucible from the legendary ring?
regal agate
yes the ring works fine
grave haven
@outer kite raidbots says you should wear mantle + hands
what are you talking about?
mantle and bracers actually
white wren
anyone know how to sim as if you had 4pc if you dont actually have it
merry pike
go to raidbots.com input your character info and go to gear compare and plug in the gear you want to test in
ashen crater
@white wren set_bonus=tier21_2pc=1
set_bonus=tier21_4pc=1
Add that to the simcraft input.
white wren
ty
gray flume
@white wren if you use the following you can sim all of the possible combinations of T21 on your toon, assuming you’re wearing mantle and gloves. You can add lines similar for using bracers and mantle.
copy="T21 4-pc"
legs=",id=152164,ilevel=945"
head=",id=152163,ilevel=945"
back=",id=152161,ilevel=945,enchant=200agi"
chest=",id=152160,ilevel=945"
copy="T21 H+C"
head=",id=152163,ilevel=945"
back=",id=152161,ilevel=945,enchant=200agi"
copy="T21 H+V"
head=",id=152163,ilevel=945"
chest=",id=152160,ilevel=945"
copy="T21 H+P"
head=",id=152163,ilevel=945"
legs=",id=152164,ilevel=945"
copy="T21 C+V"
back=",id=152161,ilevel=945,enchant=200agi"
chest=",id=152160,ilevel=945"
copy="T21 C+P"
back=",id=152161,ilevel=945,enchant=200agi"
legs=",id=152164,ilevel=945"
copy="T21 V+P"
chest=",id=152160,ilevel=945"
legs=",id=152164,ilevel=945"
It’s set to heroic ilvl, so you can modify that also
ashen crater
@gray flume You'll need to tell each of those copies to use the original set up as the starting point, otherwise each one will just build on the previous (in this case results in them all being the same).
for example, if you name your original set up "base", then the head + cloak section would be
copy="T21 H+C",base
head=",id=152163,ilevel=945"
back=",id=152161,ilevel=945,enchant=200agi"
gray flume
In my copy it does
I just took my character out so that someone else could use it
But yes, you are correct, the base does need to be added
gray flume
but technically I believe the formatting should be:
copy="T21 H+C,base"
head=",id=152163,ilevel=945"
back=",id=152161,ilevel=945,enchant=200agi"
where "base" is your character name. Or at least that's the formatting that simpermut/raidbots uses
merry pike
is there anyn additional info on GO double dipping
iron elk
last nighty has changes?
merry cloud
raidbots has it
vernal iron
is there any reason why raidbots and the simcraft client have quite different numbers? talking like 200k dps using the same settings
gaunt gale
not sure current nightly has new hotfixes in? alternately, you don't have crucible data in one of them
knotty oriole
Check if one is using the Pantheon procs and the other isn't
regal agate
you likely have an old simc desktop version (or diffrent settings)
vernal iron
hm
proper cairn
not sure this is the right channel,anyway when you open a raidbots profile result "shoulders" and "wrists" are spelled incorrectly , they're plural and not singular
i.e.
shoulders=mantle_of_the_master_assassin,id=144236,bonus_id=3529/1811/3630,enchant_id=5883
back=cloak_of_the_dashing_scoundrel,id=152161,bonus_id=3612/1502,enchant_id=5435
chest=vest_of_the_dashing_scoundrel,id=152160,bonus_id=3612/1502
wrists=zoldyck_family_training_shackles,id=137098,bonus_id=1811/3630
split sorrel
Both works
proper cairn
if you import this to raidbots gives an error though
gaunt gale
yeah, its a known issue that seri is (I think) working on
regal agate
its not an big issue as you can rename it manually
shrewd citrus
!trinkets
steel zealotBOT
List of trinkets for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/
devout spade
Does someone have a nice t20 vs t21 sim for assa rogues?
full kindle
When you say that Aethys, you mean in the hub ? Or in sumulationcraft website ?
split sorrel
Hub, Simc website is just a single simulation ran every morning, more or less.
shell schooner
Ravenholdt throwing DNS error for anyone else or is it just me
torpid urchin
so cof dead for subs ?
tawny arch
i only lost 3-4k using a 930, don't think its much of a nerf tbh
split sorrel
Main stat compensation helps a lot 😉
Especially since trinkets scale well with main stat, or rather since it's main stat and only secondaries doesn't scale well on trinkets.
patent ridge
CoF nerf is reverted
versed shell
pretty sure it's not, my cof says 3 second right now
unkempt comet
is there an eta on when the hero dmg sims will be updated for todays patch?
floral thistle
trinkets were updated
gray olive
How come the alch trinket isn't on any of the trinket sims?
AMR seems to value it really low as well, I was told here it was a solid trinket, though.
regal agate
it is on the lists
regal agate
regal agate
well its labled as 935
regal agate
i assume so
merry pike
in the sin sim it says its using kingaroth oil-sump relic drop from kingaroth (serrated edge) , but in the artifact section it shows serrated edge (rank 4) only and uses +3 in MA and Malchemist 🤔
zealous mason
is there a way to look at the sin Rogue APL ?
dense sinew
zealous mason
I mean: is it intended that in my (Sin) simulations with T20-4pc the sim doesn't garrote in the 3 sec window after the pull vanish ?
(ofc i am spec'ed subterfuge)
timid rampart
@split sorrel hey, great job with the Homepage. Quick question, are there any future plans for an option to exclude the pantheon trinkets from the trinket list?
shrewd citrus
!trinkets
steel zealotBOT
List of trinkets for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/
split sorrel
What do you mean @timid rampart ?
timid rampart
@split sorrel whenever I check the trinket lists I feel like it’s kinda messy with the 2 Pantheon trinket and the 5 and 15 man versions of it. While I can see it’s helpful it would be cool to have an option to exclude those trinkets from the list so it’s easier to compare the non-pantheon trinkets. (If that makes sense)
tight trench
Have the trinket sims been updated?
split sorrel
For T21, yes.
http://www.herodamage.com/rogue/ until tc.ravenholdt.net is fixed
@timid rampart Yes but how would you display it by default ? Although adding the option to mask one by clicking on it isn't a bad idea
timid rampart
The default version right now is great just having the option to hide the pantheon sims would be great to get a clearer view of the non-panth trinkets.
cursive dock
thanks for the new link, office did not block that ...not yet
ashen crater
I'm trying to find a good way to sim coven. I want it to be 2 targets but for aoe abilities, like fan of knives and poison bomb to only hit 1 target. Any idea how to accomplish this in simcraft?
willow pecan
@split sorrel does the graph api allow for a vertical line pointer?
split sorrel
can add it yes @willow pecan
split sorrel
We discussed it a bit more in the team, we have some good ideas around the vertical line marker! I like it a lot
zealous mason
hey, sorry to bother, am i missing something or the apl for assassin has something weird ? my T20 4pc /W subterfuge & shoulders sims doesnt garrote in the vanish subterfuge window of the pull ?
should i send my resut html ?
zealous mason
ok dug a little deeper :
actions.maintain+=/garrote,cycle_targets=1,if=talent.subterfuge.enabled&stealthed.rogue&combo_points.deficit>=1&set_bonus.tier20_4pc&((dot.garrote.remains<=13&!debuff.toxic_blade.up)|pmultiplier<=1)&!exsanguinated
seems to be the culprit, since the debuff from toxic blade seems definitely up. That or maybe Rogue isn't considered stealthed during Subterfuge (also don't know what this "pmultiplier" thing is) ? Maybe I am not asking in the right place ?
ashen crater
@zealous mason I think I remember this being mentioned a few months ago and the answer was that not garroting there gave better sim results. However if you can find a change to that line that increases dps let us know. Note the ! Before toxic blade means "not". Also i think pmultiplier is a variable that should be defined towards the beginning of the apl.
iron elk
energy_regen_combined
return a float/integer?
zealous mason
Thanks @ashen crater. Yes I noticed the "!" and at that point in the fight the debuff is applied, so requiring that it is not applied was the culprit. I could sim without requiring that the TB debuff to be not present, and it is now garroting after vanish, and simmed higher for my character (940 ilvl, 146,6% mastery 32.4 crit 10% vers), by a small margin, unsure if that's significant. (3.1 K dps, on 1429k against 1432k). The reason I am digging into this is that I find really odd that subterfuge sin rogue comes out ahead without 4pcT20. (a 5cp rupture with Vanish and NS is 2700 % attack power, a subterfuge garrot is 1822,5 attack power on paper.)
Also I noticed that in 730-03, vendetta is cast at the very beggining of the fight, partially ignoring its energy regen component, while it was not the case in 730-02 (or maybe I am mistaken). Any reason for this ?
minor moon
When simming with the engine of eradication, does it sim for obtaining every orb or obtaining no orb at all=
finite thunder
minor moon
do you know where I can see that in the sims? it's not in the buff list for me
ah, sorry, see it now
iron elk
" % " in simulationcraft is used to divide?
hybrid compass
Got this ring today and I'm wondering if the effect is inlcluded in the sim if I just check my dps in Raidbots or do I have to add it, in some sort of way?
lofty kiln
It is included
hybrid compass
Ok, thanks. It was a 0.4% dps increase for me, so not that much. I guess it's because of all the haste.
junior wadi
does simming the golganneth trinket on raidbots take into account the pantheon proc or is it listed without it
split sorrel
You have to put it in the options
shrewd citrus
!trinkets
steel zealotBOT
List of trinkets for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/
tropic void
!trinket
gaunt gale
Needs an s
feral crystal
@split sorrel sorry if it's a bit late to the discussion, but being able deselect or hide trinkets in the list would be a very handy tool. Can make it easier to compare available trinkets for people or compare with what they already have
split sorrel
yes planned, not very high prio tho
willow pecan
i think base ilvl of trinket sims should be 915 or higher now
LFR drops 915
amber viper
Is it possible to set the distance between 2 targets on a cleave fight?
fallen raptor
how do you sim as accurately as possible for M+ ?
is it in the program only and you put 5-man heroic 5 targets?
fleet ice
anyone know why my scale factor for vers would INCREASE after putting a vers gem in my new ring???
it went from 31.50 to 32.66, and my mastery scale factor went from 30.92 to 30.75 before and after adding vers gem ...... that seems backwards to me
digital lake
!relic
maiden cargo
It's in the pins
coarse topaz
Ouch sorry, I need to pay penence.
split sorrel
More coming soon
smoky wind
yo
can someone tell me
why on earth it doesnt EITHER A: dfa then land with symbols and SD into backstab evic(since it has finality buff) or B: at a minimum symbols and then evic backstab dfa since the first and the second evicerates lose out on 25% extra damage?
https://gyazo.com/2f5b05e0ced54ff6c82c7ee68fbe2171
regal agate
scenario A:
adding the best possible use case for dfa into symbols is a loss, adding additional non perfect scenarios seem unlikely to be a win then.
scenario B:
adding the condition is no win. It becomes a lose if you delay evi for slightly more then 1 global
@smoky wind
vague remnant
Iirc we're getting multi-target sims at some point right?
I'm trying to figure out which trinket would be good for m+ (aoe), Gorshalach or Forgefiend. Would simming hectic add cleave give me more or less the data I want?
steep sentinel
Guys, in simulation
can i configl how many people are using the pantheon's trinket?
config*
plucky mural
@split sorrel is someone looking into the combine for assassin on https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/combinations/1t-t21-rogue-assassination
It doesnt have exang in the mythic stacks.
sweet blade
currently i sim higher with cinidaria+insignia than vigor+insignia with t20 4pc+t21 2pc that just seems wrong
vague remnant
It was mentioned that cinidaria sims higher but they chose to keep double ring because of the huge burst in t21. Like, in reality rings should be better, even if belt sims higher.
sweet blade
yeah thats what i thought
crimson hinge
cinidaria is still there, just filtered by default
split sorrel
yes
wild juniper
This is 2 target as assassination poison build. My question is - What does the negative haste value mean? If Im unbuffed and eat haste food, do I lose dps? If so, why?
split sorrel
@plucky mural found issue, should be fixed in the next update tomorrow
plucky mural
thanks
maiden cargo
@wild juniper Sin gets energy from multidotting
novel lava
it's probably a maximum energy vendetta restriction, i remember that being a problem before
maiden cargo
Oh yeah good point
gusty laurel
Hey guys. Quick question i cant see any gol ganeths vitality proc in simcraft do i need to update if so?
split sorrel
@plucky mural fixed
inland remnant
@split sorrel there is an issue with cruweight strings on herodamage. Havoc string has individual weights for specific amount of critical chaos relics. I had 0 relics on my dh, only 4 baseline traits. Crucible weight valued my next critical chaos (in 3rd row) at 0 until I manually added weights for 4th trait (4: 9.5).
split sorrel
Because it's the 5, 6, 7 I guess
I didn't tested it extensively, @boreal patrol did
boreal patrol
@inland remnant i see, thanks for the report, this seems to be an issue in the new relic preview only, i'm working on a fix
boreal patrol
ok, fix is done, it should roll out to the site soon, please try again in a little while and tell me if you see a remaining issue
plucky mural
@split sorrel looks as expected. thanks 😃
soft flower
!trinket
gleaming valley
Found behaviour issue with APL on sub rogue : https://gyazo.com/b283a2a217affbaf8c09c8f2d5a27f48
The Action list here should clearly be : Backstab > DFA > Symbol + Danse > Evi > SS > Evi etc (bc of shadow gesture proc)
That might be why T21 4p sims so low
near escarp
Whatd I do
maiden cargo
check the fluffy pillow
@gleaming valley you would sod+Dfa but yeah
can you send the profile
what concerns me is the shadow dance
3 ss into nb
near escarp
Is this gloves
near escarp
Doesn't make sense for gloves, non gloves the dance sequence doesn't make sense
near escarp
No gloves you can evis and dfa
maiden cargo
cuz t21 4p proc
near escarp
Ya
near escarp
Yah that's questionable
maiden cargo
but hm
I wonder if you could use t21 proc better
in any case there is an energy issue here
which is quite impactful, missing evis in shd
near escarp
Yeah I thought the apl wasn't supposed to do nb during dance
near escarp
Looks like dance ended yeah
Prob has a clause to not evis at 4cp
And also it's allowed to nb during symbols
near escarp
4p T21 will never fit 3ss without vigor or shadow focus tho
And clearly there's neither here
So it's doing 3ss into nothing because it doesn't want to evis at 4cp and no shadow tech proc
near escarp
hands could do evis > symbols + evis > bs > DFA
but thats a lot of energy dumped
idk
split sorrel
I don't have time to look into but I guess @boreal patrol or @regal agate will check it 😃
regal agate
i am not sure if that change is rly a win
as we shift evi into dance, this mean we lose builder during it
i can try it in apl tomorrow
maiden cargo
The APL also decides to waste gloves with Shadow Gestures
regal agate
yes that was the change mystler did
maiden cargo
surely there is an issue with the dance here
near escarp
wwait thats really a hands profile?
regal agate
and it does not make sense to finish with low cp
regal agate
yes its hands
near escarp
oh i see fist of the dead in there now, i was looking at it from my phone earlier
evis > symbols + evis > bs > DFA
why doesnt it do this
maiden cargo
yep
near escarp
no you use the shadow gesture proc with symbols
evis > symbols + evis (shadow gesture refund) > bs > DFA
regal agate
ye delaying symbols could work in that scenario
near escarp
yeah you delay symbols but the free finisher cancels out the delay due to 2p
and you still save your glove cp gen
you should come out on top
ashen crater
I was playing around with the outlaw profile used in the combinator. I found some minor improvements to the marked for death build, and some major improvements for the slice and dice build (will need a gear override in the combinator similiar to the how exsanguinate has one).
ashen crater
Will do
split sorrel
😊
ashen crater
In case anyone's interested, here are the above sims, with 15-pantheon users. Slice and dice pulls ahead of marked for death.
gleaming valley
@near escarp @halcyon mortar @maiden cargo Profile used is mantle gloves, 4p t21, sim ver updated with 2017-12-06 23:37, basic APL from when you import your rogue from armory, talents 1110013
Also Scenario A : Backstab > DFA > Symbol + Danse > Evi > SS > Evi > SS
is way better than Scenario B : Backstab > Evi > Symbole + Evi > Backstab > DFA > Danse > SS > etc for numerous reasons :
- you delay your DFA by 3 gcds in Scenario B
- 1 of your Evi is out of symboles, and 2 are out of danse in Scenario B
- You have a Nightblade to refresh at the end of that danse so you don't wanna delay the DFA
- In scenario A you end your danse with lot of energy allowing you to refresh NB quicker
- You have no SB active so you'd probably DFA at 5cp in Scenario B
near escarp
for point 1, doesnt DFA into symbols take 1s, whereas evis into symbols evis also takes 1s
orchid bramble
are you suggesting refreshing nightblade during symbols ?
near escarp
point 3 is valid though, does seem like nightblade is running out
gleaming valley
@near escarp Symbols CD is something RNG, relying on SB uptime and Shadow gesture proc, so the Offensive CD that has to be taken into account is not symbols imo (cd is from 17 sec to 23 sec) but DFA which is 20 sec
I don't want to delay my DFA, I can delayh my symbols if it's CD gets too low
near escarp
fair enough, i see no problems with scenario b
just be mindful on when you press the symbols going down, you cant hit it the first opportunity you get
gleaming valley
DFA is 3gcd later on scenario b
near escarp
dfa action lockout is 1s and the evis comes at 1.5s
your manual evis comes at 2s and the ss comes at 3s
gleaming valley
Ye smth like this
near escarp
so just have to hit symbols/dance closer to the dfa evis
gleaming valley
Ok I should have written this Backstab > DFA > Symbol + Danse > Evi(DFA) > Evi > SS > Evi > SS
is this better ?
gleaming valley
I get them with the SS
near escarp
you have to press symbols and dance a little slower
lets say you hit DFA at 0, symbols/dance at 1, evis at 2, ss at 3
you wont get the cp
gleaming valley
Gloves is 2sec
gleaming valley
Yes ofc
You don't have to think of anything if you do it on the dummy though
It just goes by itself
near escarp
shouldnt be a problem for the apl though
because they use dance 1.4s into dfa
i think overall your scenario is much better than what the apl is doing
since the current apl doesnt use cp from gloves
gleaming valley
I'm just wondering, does APL allow DFA into Symbol danse ever ?
near escarp
i havent seen it
gleaming valley
I mean I don't remember seeing it by looking at sample sequence, maybe my memory is just bad (I know it is)
But this is a powerful tool since it allows to get a finality evi on DFA more often
Without delaying dfa
near escarp
using symbols after DFA has been simmed before by Fuu for a dps loss, but i didnt take a look at it
but i havent seen the apl use symbols after DFA ever
gleaming valley
I think it should definatly be reconsidered, with the DFA hotfix on sim from november 21 where it missed 50% dmg about 50% of the time on average
I also think going 15k mastery with GutRippers instead of 15k crit with Weak Points should be reconsidered with this kind of fixed APL
regal agate
@gleaming valley
ad 1: you delay symbols by approximately 2 seconds instead of 1 delaying dfa is no issue
ad 2: its no issue to evi out of symbols, this means you get more empowered builder (2 cp builder) instead
ad 3: delaying symbols cast may end up refreshing nightblade, this would mean you wont need to refresh it during symbols and additional you would not lose a evi cast during symbols
torn dome
@Andryl#7403 Where did you pull said profiles?
As cof is already used in default ol profile and it should also be dwarf not nelf
regal agate
@near escarp dfa into symbols works in the apl, you need to add a line and adjust conditions to make it work, it is a loss to dfa into symbols outside of special scenarios
gleaming valley
@halcyon mortar
- Delaying dfa is a big issue. Its cd is 20 sec it means you can put 3 per minute. You wanna have symbol up every DFA. If you delay DFA on symbol you loose DFA per fight and thus symbols. DFA is the thing not to delay, not the symbols.
- I don't know what you mean by 2cp builder. Main damage source are finisher if I can choose between more Evi or more backstab in my symbol I'll definatly take the first option.
- Symbol cd is between 17-23 sec with 4p t21, nightblade duration is 16-18 sec, meaning that mathematically you have to refresh NB at some point during the symbols, if you try to avoid that too much you'd loose finality : E before the dfa. I'd rather have a DFA buffed by finality than a Evi buffed by 15% symbols
regal agate
using evi during dance is a loss compared to ss
maiden cargo
What?
regal agate
you get symbols every ~25 secounds with t21 2p (without t20 4p additional)
to be clear do we talk about t20 4p + t21 2p?
gleaming valley
4 t21 mante hands
Look at messages above
I wrote a post about why it sims so low
when it's actually really good
regal agate
sry can you summ it up, i just see your 5 points i already discussed
torn dome
why not
maiden cargo
3ss into nb due to bad pooling
bad use of shadow gestures
should evisc-sod-evisc-bs-(bs)-dfa
torn dome
so then dfa lands out of nb?
maiden cargo
?
then refresh NB better??
it's supposed to be 10seconds duration for sod
which lets 4gcd before using dfa
regal agate
its a edge case
as you have a condition that says to not refresh nb during symbols it does evi
and then after shadowdance it does apply nb
as it falls off
torn dome
do then
regal agate
XD
regal agate
i already explained
torn dome
Find a solution
maiden cargo
Are you being serious right now
regal agate
if you delay symbols by 1 secounds this scenario is fixed
regal agate
and i explained why the other potential fixed might be bad
moment ill try the fix, its literally just moving 1 condition
maiden cargo
Like, I cant code simC properly other than basic conditions but it should be nice to have people showing the issues there is no?
split sorrel
Keep the discussion focused and be nice to each other btw. 😃
regal agate
just wanted to understand sunl's opinion/thought, i dont see anything wrong ^^
afk for a bit, will run a sim then
gleaming valley
Backstab > DFA > Symbol + Danse > Evi(DFA) > Evi > SS > Evi > SS should be the way to go
maiden cargo
hmm, idk, dfa>sod has always been a loss
and if you want to use gloves on dropdown, then you just sod+dfa
and use the shadowstrike after dropdown
you have like 0.1 second for it
gleaming valley
I think this is a mistake
For two reasons
first : On november 21 aethys fixed an issue where DFA was missing 50% dmg about 50% of the time on avg
underestimating DFA's dmg
Second : The current APL doesn't take finality:evi into consideration
it's not using symbols appropriately to get a finality before dfa when it's actually a powerful tool to get the finality more often
maiden cargo
if you wanna get finality here is what you do
No finality: SOD-Evisc-BS-(bs)-DfA
Finality: SOD-DFA-ShD-Shadowstrike
gleaming valley
Finality : DFA > SoD + ShD > SS
maiden cargo
(the shadowstrike on second case procs gloves)
torn dome
You do due to lag between sod and the buff applying
gleaming valley
you don't
https://gyazo.com/46d25e791a49993e88c4f84ff2c65c16 with macros & stuff
torn dome
even that issue is still open on RH tc github
maiden cargo
You do get it
gleaming valley
Check the gif I just tried it
gleaming valley
Well if it's inconsistent I do'nt wanna rely on it on pve
maiden cargo
It's high risk
gleaming valley
And it should not be considered
maiden cargo
:)
gleaming valley
But still
I won't do it cause risky
So ok this works
"No finality: SOD-Evisc-BS-(bs)-DfA
Finality: SOD-DFA-ShD-Shadowstrike"
maiden cargo
Yeah it's only for "pro players"
gleaming valley
Trying to make it consistent with macros
If they use it, it means they have a way to make it consistent
It's too high risk low reward for it to be pulled if it's not consistent
w/e I got carried away from the topic
So is the APL already doing this for finality ?
what you said earlier
maiden cargo
No
gleaming valley
Ok found it
#showtooltip Death from above
/cast [talent:7/3] Symbols of Death
/cast [talent:7/3] Death from above
#showtooltip Shadow Dance
/use [nostance] Shadow Dance
/cast Shadowstrike
Using macro 1 then spamming macro 2 makes it consistent
Without risk of using two danse you can spam macro 2
Thank you very much for the trick
it's actually pretty insane
So there is actually 3 cases
mb 4
- no shadow gesture no finality
SOD-Evisc-BS-(bs)-DfA
- no shadow gesture finality
SOD-DFA-ShD-Shadowstrike
- shadow gesture no finality
Evi > Dfa > SoD + ShD > Evi > SS > Evi
- Shadow gesture finality
DFA > SoD + ShD > Evi > SS > Evi
wait mb 3 is wrong
maiden cargo
Quite don't understand case 3)
gleaming valley
ye
Mb just ignore finality in case 3
Or ignore gloves
:thunkang:
well pbly ignore finality since it waste a finisher to ignore gloves or shadow gesture
maiden cargo
Ye
gleaming valley
So 3) shadow gesture no finality would go like 4)
maiden cargo
As I said, dfa>sod is most likely a loss
gleaming valley
So what would you do for 3 and 4 ?
maiden cargo
Evisc-sod-evisc-bs-(BS)-dfa
gleaming valley
Ok let's sum up pros & cons
Pros of doing Scenario A : DFA > SoD + ShD > Evi > SS > Evi :
You don't delay DFA
You use every proc efficientely under a danse, symbols, etc
Cons : You don't buff the spinning thingy part of dfa by 15%
You don't have finality : e for the dfa
Pros of doing scenario B : Evisc-sod-evisc-bs-(BS)-dfa :
You get finality eviscerate for dfa
Cons : One evi is out of symbols, 2 are out of danse
You delay DFA by 3 (4) gcd
you risk procing shadow gesture again by using 1(2) bs
maiden cargo
Would need to sim but sims showed it was bad
With t20 tho so idk
Was 100k dps loss
maiden cargo
Dfa>sod
gleaming valley
Smth must be wrong tbh
loosing 15% on spinning thingy from dfa
doesn't make 100k dps difference
Ok let's try to estimate it
Assuming dfa's spinning part is 2m/use
Assuming you use 3 dfa per minute
6m dmg per minute
15% makes it 900k
per 60 sec makes it 15k dps
This is a upper bound estimation
since you have max 3dfa per minute
and 2m/whirmling is kinda big also
gleaming valley
Also shadow gesture pbly didn't exist when he did those sims
I'd still go with scenario A tbh
I don't see myself delaying a 20 sec CD by 3(4) sec which is 15-20% of it's own value
meaning you'd loose a burst every 6.67 (5) burst
maiden cargo
Maybe
regal agate
moment let me catch up on the discussion
about dfa into sod + shd
there are logs every now and then doing it, its sth that koreans mainly do.
maiden cargo
SOD you mean ?
regal agate
yes fixed
maiden cargo
The question is, is it good with T21
regal agate
i simmed it yesterday
if you consider the cooldown reducrion from 2p, and dont delay it by 1 sec and have finality up and 5/6 cp pre symbols come up its a 0% win
in every other case its a loss
maiden cargo
Yeah I expected it to be a loss TBH
regal agate
its only 1 special case
maiden cargo
I don't know anyone good doing dfa>sod
regal agate
means you need to fulfill all conditions:
- combo points need to be 5+(with shb)/6(without shb)
- symbols cooldown need to be exact at the right time
- finality evi needs to be up
only with those conditions met its equal
change the condition e.g. delay dfa cast only slightly and it becomes a loss
rustic tundra
Ping that, so useful ! ^^
regal agate
to be clear this only applies to hands build, it becomes a loss with e.g. bracers (still no significant one but a loss)
boreal patrol
that hands+t21 4pc example you posted and that started this discussion is a very special and very rare case, I ran a couple of simulation last night and today but no try to put your suggestions into the apl resulted in a noticeable win (neutral at best)
gleaming valley
@boreal patrol Can we have a discussion on a vocal channel?
boreal patrol
pretty busy atm, sorry. if you have sth particular, i think it would be easier if you post it here or via DM, so i can look at it in time
ashen crater
@torn dome I got them from the combinator profiles posted on github.
boreal patrol
@ashen crater thanks a lot for opening the issue btw, i will have a closer look at it when i have some more time
ashen crater
Happy to help.
tropic musk
How do we use the new AoE trinket from tomb? Forgefiend's Fabricator
just use it on cd?
regal agate
as assisination, yes
with sub, we use it like specter/vial
ashen crater
Yep. With symbols and shadow dance.
regal agate
@tropic musk read my guide XD
tropic musk
lol alright
regal agate
😉
tropic musk
i don't play sub so was just wondeirng lol
regal agate
sub has quite a lot of damage amplifyer so most on use trinkets are aligned with those
tropic musk
yah with the 30sec cd on forgefiends looks like it'd line up nice with subs ss/sd
torn dome
@boreal patrol I can do it too after raid if youve not done it yet :p
Should be few more hours
boreal patrol
already had a look at it, looks good on first sight, will likely see about updating simc and combinator accordingly tomorrow
torn dome
Aight 👍
naive ether
!simc
steel zealotBOT
How to sim yourself - guide: https://goo.gl/YACUkz
Download simulationcraft: https://simulationcraft.org/
Or use Raidbots: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot
maiden cargo
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ftjFibtD8HpZXqbZVTARya Anyone here that can help me choose? Stat weight says the 945 neck is 7% better but both simcraft and raidbots say that the 940 is a minimal dps increase
maiden cargo
so use the 940? i had the stat weights of my equipped
gaunt gale
though at that amount of DPS difference, I'd consider the 945 for the extra stam, idk
maiden cargo
940 is crit vers where as the 945 is vers mast
but 940 gives 5% energy
so go for the 945?
gaunt gale
honestly, its so close you could almost run the sim again and get the opposite result. pick the one you like 😃
gaunt gale
yeah, when things are that close its tricky
maiden cargo
yea i even tried 3 sims with the 940 neck and it was all three times on top but like 1k+- dps so its nothing
i guess for that energy
gaunt gale
thats also why your stat weights weren't giving the right answer
maiden cargo
oh lol
gaunt gale
yeah, there's no weight for "5% energy"
maiden cargo
makes sense
white wren
looking at the APL after running a sim as assassin and its showing the opener being Ven>garrote>KB>ruptre, and rupture being used with 4cp, how is taht possibe if a KB crit only gives 2 cps, would it not be 3cp??
ashen crater
KB can give 3 combo points. It hits with both hands, if they both crit you get two extra combo points.
surreal plank
how would i go about simming all the races in simc?
gleaming valley
Thx for the sim update
though I think there is still room for improvement
Last dfa was used at 0:27:114
Instead of wasting finality buff into a 3 cp evi
and then doing only 3 gcd into danse bc he's unlucky on melee proc after the symbols and thus lack energy
I think going to 6 cp using more backstabs then going for symbol + dfa > shd specter > SS > Evi > SS > SS, keeping finality for DFA would be way more efficient
Even if you probably have to refresh Nightblade during SoD
Build used : mantle gloves, 4p t21, sim ver from dec 9
Other exemple B :
2 gcds in danse
https://gyazo.com/7d7a9de0a4c1349af1127fcd96186538 what happened prior to this and led to this degenerate behaviour
Solution here would be to refresh nightblade earlier around 1:28:927
orchid bramble
2 gcd in dance 😬
gleaming valley
So you'd probably end up refreshing symbol in symbols again
but obv
2 gcd in danse or refresh NB during symbols
I choose second option
orchid bramble
Looks like some pooling may be helpfull now that we lost the 4pT20 energy, dfa should not be used on 35 energy I asume.
gleaming valley
Another exemple C
This whole sequence is really unoptimized
Your symbols end up not lining up with dfa's second danse
The first danse "extra danse" not inside DFA is used one GCD too late
So instead of doing Evi > SS > Evi > SS in the danse, you loose one gcd
bc of energy matters
Then symbols ends up too early, and again we can see only 3 gcds are used on the second danse
To summarize I think the set of rules used of sub rogue APL
which prbly are smth like
torn dome
It is all solid criticism. But howd you solve this? Dance outside sod to have dfa land in it?
gleaming valley
Never refresh NB in symbols
torn dome
And allow nb in sod/dance?
regal agate
pooling for dfa is a win
gleaming valley
Allow NB in sod
regal agate
tho only problem is it is in conflict with on use trinkets
the lose for on use trinkets was far higher then the minimal win from pooling
gleaming valley
Why do you bring trinket usage up
gleaming valley
So 2 gcd in danse is not an issue ?
full kindle
pooling make you use trinkets later, so if you delay the trinkets can loose damage which aparently is a loss compared to the damage you gain from it
gleaming valley
I've been trying to quote problems from one sample sequence
And proposing solutions to those problem
and you talk about trinket usage
I don't understand
full kindle
Well
It's not isolated
Pooling have an repercution on trinkets damage
It's linked
torn dome
Delaying dfa combo delays trinkets
regal agate
exactly
regal agate
it is clear
you found a clear scenario you want to say "its better to do y in this case exactly on position z"
gleaming valley
Ok
So which scenario are you talking about
A B or C
Because they are all so different and cannot just be answered with "pooling"
torn dome
C
gleaming valley
To me, C ends up being an issue because of improper extra danse usage
regal agate
all shd related issues where you dont fit in 4 gcd are pooling retated
gleaming valley
I totally disagree with that
In scenario A & B you cna solve the issue without delaying
I wrote exactly how I would do it
torn dome
In a youd delay sod
gleaming valley
In scenario C the improper extra danse usage makes it that it's really hard to solve
regal agate
afk eating, will catch up when i am back
gleaming valley
Because it's really screwed up at the very begining
And @torn dome I'd refresh NB during SoD
I wrote how it would be done it doesn't necessarly delay sod by more than one or two seconds
Never during danse though
torn dome
And that one or two seconds multiplied by 15 over the course of a fight
gleaming valley
Ok let's try to math this out
15% dmg for 10 sec on 300 sec loss
Seems like a 0.5% dps loss
torn dome
Bosses last 8+ mins. Not 5
orchid bramble
Also energy, also by delayong sod you delay dfas.. this math is just wrong
gleaming valley
Compared to totally improper danse usage one time out of two
DFA's cooldown is 20 sec static
symbol is 17-24 depending on SB & 4p proc
But usually it's over 20 sec
Plus as mentionned in exemple A you don't delay anything
I'd rather use a 15% dmg upgrade in a less efficient way than use a 30% dmg upgrade (plus the fact that SS >>>> BS) in a less efficient way
torn dome
In A youd not reach 6cp without delay
torn dome
But that is trur that the sod gloves buff bug could be implemented in sim
But people seem to forget that using gloves buff on ss is 1 cp loss
In comparison to using it on bs
gleaming valley
Oh and about trinket usage
If you end up using symbols every 22.5 sec on avg it's fine since trinket cd is 45 sec
But yeah I see what you mean
I just have the gut feeling that with this build
A more proper danse usage at the cost of a less proper symbol usage would be beneficial
mossy hearth
why not just double dance in ur symbols
you can do that 30% of ur dances
on average
torn dome
No energy
gleaming valley
Are you talking about exemple C ?
mossy hearth
thats why u play shadowfocus
torn dome
LOL
gleaming valley
rekt
torn dome
:angry:
gleaming valley
😂
torn dome
Sure
But why bandaid the issue with sf rather thsn fix underlying
Its what I feel with assa helm
Possible you should just dance out of sod to avoid cap?
And just pool like old times for it
mossy hearth
its double dancing alrdy, though?
pretty sure this double dance meme is a remnant from t20 4p where u had the energy to do so.
regal agate
it was a special case more or less
like the recent addings, most of them are spcial cases
mossy hearth
u have to code to only do the double dance if you literally are almost capped in dance charges
not every time, obviously
regal agate
ye thats what i did
mossy hearth
did u try adjusting the threshold