#tc-research | Ravenholdt | Page 30

strong rune Oct 7, 2017, 12:13 AM

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to the old name

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legion.specter_of_betrayal_overlap

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drop the _prob

snow citrus Oct 7, 2017, 9:33 AM

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guys

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What's the optimal fight time for sin?

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boots+bracers

split sorrel Oct 7, 2017, 10:21 AM

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0s from 100% to 30%, rest of the fight from 30% to 0%

stoic surge Oct 7, 2017, 1:57 PM

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any sims of t21 yet

proper cairn Oct 7, 2017, 4:02 PM

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every fight should be like EoA

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from 21%

glacial patio Oct 7, 2017, 10:38 PM

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is there a way to change stats when running a sim?

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(stats of the character)

lofty kiln Oct 7, 2017, 11:05 PM

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enchant_x_rating= or gear_x_rating= (the former just adds/subtracts, the latter sets it directly)

glacial patio Oct 7, 2017, 11:09 PM

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Thx

dull elk Oct 7, 2017, 11:28 PM

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Is teir 21 implemented in Simcraft?

proper cairn Oct 8, 2017, 6:40 AM

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Blizzard clearly said that the simulations are useless, didn't you follow the Q/A, they have their internal data and according to them all is good

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😄

willow pecan Oct 8, 2017, 7:16 AM

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that's not what they said though..

proper cairn Oct 8, 2017, 7:38 AM

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The team looks at logs over sims. They use both external data and internal data when doing balancing.
If data externally makes things look imbalanced, but internally the data shows everything is balanced, players will only have access to the external data and think things aren't balance.

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these internal data must be golden

split sorrel Oct 8, 2017, 7:57 AM

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@dull elk it is, there is just not AIO results posted anywhere

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well at least, not from us

willow pecan Oct 8, 2017, 8:09 AM

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@proper cairn and where in that phrase do they say sims are useless?
he said they can't just look at internal data if anything.
you just wanna sound edgy or something?

proper cairn Oct 8, 2017, 8:10 AM

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just exasperating the obvious

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it was a nice way (from their side) that they don't give a damn fuck about sims, they check their logs at their own manner and the result is that we have arms warriors and sub rogues 😃

willow pecan Oct 8, 2017, 8:13 AM

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Man, your interpertation is exactly why they hesitate to ever talk to the community

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they say one thing

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and you understand something else completly, to fit your ideas

proper cairn Oct 8, 2017, 8:14 AM

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sure but i'm entitled to have my opinion on their statements

willow pecan Oct 8, 2017, 8:15 AM

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okay?

proper cairn Oct 8, 2017, 8:15 AM

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the guy might be 90% accurate when he talks about raiding, but since they made M+ a thing, a competitve thing i'd say, they might want to double check their internal data again

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because If i'm not wrong, and correct me if I am, I haven't seen a single DoT class in the race

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oh well the warlock but 😄

willow pecan Oct 8, 2017, 8:19 AM

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i don't realy care about that
and frankly, i'd prefer they don't balance specs around m+

proper cairn Oct 8, 2017, 8:19 AM

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well it's a huge part of the game now

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they can't simply ignore it

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and it looks like it will be carried over to next xpac

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but anyway, case closed, this is sim channel so let's leave it like that

royal vector Oct 8, 2017, 9:41 AM

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what kind of fight style should i use on siming on raidbots?

regal agate Oct 8, 2017, 9:45 AM

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depends on what you want to evaluate

knotty oriole Oct 8, 2017, 11:06 PM

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@willow pecan tbf, Celestalon has publically told people when they show sims as problem markers that "Sims are not reliable data", so I think it's pretty clear that they have a rather dim view of SimC in general right now

lofty kiln Oct 8, 2017, 11:08 PM

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Which kinda sucks, given the effort we put into it

knotty oriole Oct 8, 2017, 11:09 PM

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Yeah, and also that sims have shown to be relatively accurate, more often than not.. at least for basic situations. Of course, there is more than Patchwerk, but it can always be contextualized.. (e.g. when Babs was doing analysis on WW scaling issues)

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Definitely the case where logs can be more useful than sims, but sims are pretty good at spotting outliers even if you don't believe in their universal application. For example, it was proved to have pretty much spotted the tuning issues with various T20 sets (and Warriors, in particular) on PTR pretty accurately.

lofty kiln Oct 8, 2017, 11:11 PM

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Yeah, I'll give them the fact that class comparisons in sims are not a great idea

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But anything that is in class (or even in spec) can produce excellent information

knotty oriole Oct 8, 2017, 11:12 PM

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Right

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Also, I'm reasonably skeptical of these nebulous statements about some magical internal dataset that shows everything is super-duper balanced, when SimC and WCL both relatively agree on which classes are over and under-performing outside of the average ranges

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😛

lofty kiln Oct 8, 2017, 11:14 PM

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🤷

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The spread is not that bad, so I think they're just content with that

knotty oriole Oct 8, 2017, 11:16 PM

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A lot of the classes are in a fairly reasonable cluster

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Although I'd generally say Warlocks and Warriors have been pretty questionable... Havoc DHs and some other melee classes without strong cleave have been struggling in ToS

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Some of that has been due to them not having great balancing on ST vs. Cleave/AoE toolkit (which is not a new problem)

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Although I think Warriors/Warlocks have been in their own top tier for a while in most regards

willow pecan Oct 9, 2017, 12:01 AM

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@knotty oriole "not reliable" does not equal useless.

knotty oriole Oct 9, 2017, 1:21 AM

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Sure, but if they are unwilling to consider them actionable, that's kinda the same difference

willow pecan Oct 9, 2017, 1:42 AM

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he litteraly said, that if their internal data differs from external data (mainly logs, yes, but players also look at sims)
it doesn't sync with the community
and so they need to figure what to do from all available data

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so when he says they don't use fan sims, i'm pretty sure what he meant, is that those are not what they use to test balance

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if i were to create a game, i would probably not rely on someone elses sim if i had one that's working the way i expect

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and yet, it's not useless, cause like i said, it shapes the community feelings

knotty oriole Oct 9, 2017, 5:36 AM

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Perhaps so, but it's been pretty clear over the last number of years that there are a few devs at Blizzard that have no real respect for the value of sims, which is unfortunate but pretty well-established.
More than anything, they probably need to take a step back and try to figure out why their internal projections and/or data differ so significantly from the community's view (logs/sims/anecdotal experiences.) T20 set bonus balancing is a good example of that.

feral crystal Oct 9, 2017, 8:39 AM

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sorry if its been said before, but is there a custom string you can use in raidbots that makes it so the specter images dont overlap

proper cairn Oct 9, 2017, 9:43 AM

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legion.specter_of_betrayal_overlap=0

feral crystal Oct 9, 2017, 10:21 AM

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I keep trying that but its not the right syntax

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actions.cds+=/use_item,name=legion.specter_of_betrayal_overlap=0
doesnt do anything either if put into custom apl box

lofty kiln Oct 9, 2017, 10:27 AM

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That's not an APL action

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go to advanced and put that on a separate line

feral crystal Oct 9, 2017, 10:30 AM

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trying to use it with raidbots, and if I put in what shantal wrote it gives me an error

lofty kiln Oct 9, 2017, 10:32 AM

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Link one of the failed reports

feral crystal Oct 9, 2017, 10:34 AM

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doesnt even let it run on raidbots just says"Invalid APL commands: legion.specter_of_betrayal_overlap"

lofty kiln Oct 9, 2017, 10:34 AM

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Why are you putting it in the APL section?

feral crystal Oct 9, 2017, 10:35 AM

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📎 unknown.png

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don't know how else to keep specter for stacking the images

lofty kiln Oct 9, 2017, 10:37 AM

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I told you, go to advanced and add that line at the end, like so:

📎 unknown.png

feral crystal Oct 9, 2017, 10:38 AM

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oh shit ok thank you, didnt even think of trying it there

willow pecan Oct 9, 2017, 10:54 AM

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@knotty oriole T20 is an example of that in what way?
the balance in ToS is pretty good
i can't think of a spec that is completly unviable.

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I dunno, i feel like people are just completly unobjective.
"my spec isn't top dps, so balance is bad"

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furtheremore, they DID "figure out" why their data and the community may differ
and they DID address us and told us why they think those reasons are
and it was quite recently.
you may have missed it, or maybe you just don't agree with them.
but saying that haven't, is false.

knotty oriole Oct 9, 2017, 3:19 PM

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Uhhh. Link something you feel like that is the case but they have never elaborated on what "internal data" actually meant, let alone addressed why it was different, other than their theories about class migration which they have had since WoD.

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As for T20 multiple classes continue to use T19 due to them ignoring feedback on community sims/models that T20 was not tuned appropriately and overnerfed for many classes. Warriors had to be nerfed twice after they rejected modeling feedback on PTR from the community that they were overturned. Ferals had to be totally revamped to get back to a decent level after they maintained during PTR they were fine. WW were buffed multiple times much after the fact despite being told early on that they were severely undertuned, etc.

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So while the "average" classes are tuned pretty close together, Blizzard has not been great about adjusting for outliers.

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And I think my point is that multiple Blizzard devs have outright rejected SimC models as anything actionable. If SimC says something is wrong and they believe it's fine, they won't change anything. Even though SimC has shown to be pretty reliable at spotting major issues.

modest ravine Oct 9, 2017, 3:53 PM

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@floral acorn do your NLC weights account for the recent dark sorrows buff?

floral acorn Oct 9, 2017, 4:25 PM

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yes

willow pecan Oct 9, 2017, 5:41 PM

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@knotty oriole again, all the issues you're raising are things they addressed in the AMA
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/6j2wwk/wow_class_design_ama_june_2017/

you're talking about this as they are clueless to what's going on and that there are classes that are currently unplayable.
I'm just trying to understand from what position are you looking at this data
when you talk about outliers, you mean for top 10 world guilds?

you could consider sin and outlaw as outliers right now if you look at WCL. they are both at the bottom of the chart.
does that mean they are the worst in your opinion?
and if so, how come i've never met a subtlety rogue who does more dps than me with similar gear? (and i'm not some genius player)

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cause my answer, is that while they are not the strongest. even at the bottom of the chart, they can be competetive with other classes.
and the reason for that, is because the balance is fine.

knotty oriole Oct 9, 2017, 5:53 PM

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I mean, I read all the AMA posts and I don't really think they addressed that specific issue at all

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They were extremely dismissive of a lot of issues brought up for Havoc and other underperforming specs in the AMA, so shrug

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As for outliers, would you not consider pre-buff WWs or pre-nerf Warriors significantly outside a reasonable delta of the mean? Or pre-revamp Feral? Seems fairly clear to me. Various points this xpac Shaman specs were both logging and simming so far below others it was laughable, so clearly whatever internal modeling they were using to determine those tuning values had some significant issues. But typically when sims have been used to present this during PTR or even live testing phases, they are immediately dismissed as not being actionable data. I think that's all I'm trying to say. If they aren't willing to consider sims as some kind of "evidence" at all, that's slightly unfortunate IMO.

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Either way, I'm less making a point about their tuning and rather that a few of their prominent devs have not really been shy about their disdain for SimC 😛

willow pecan Oct 9, 2017, 6:09 PM

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And i think you're missing what i'm trying to say.
can the balancing be better? it can always be.
but even pre buffs / nerf etc.
i've seen WW and ferals doing just fine dps.
even in NH, i've seen subtlety rogues doing fine dps.

the thing is, not every fight/raid (loot) works well with everything
and like they said, when one class is performing well. most players will go and play that, which will skew the resutls even more.

and alright, you can argue that they should use SimC
but SimC has its own faults (like for example, the reaction time of abilities is immidiate)
it's not meant as a tool to test how a player plays.
it's best for testing how different stats/gear would affect your character

knotty oriole Oct 9, 2017, 6:13 PM

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I mean WW/Feral are doing fine DPS now but they were pretty ridiculously undertuned. It's still somewhat anecdotal to compare one-off cases where Ferals are doing fine, for example

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I mean, I was in top 3 damage as Feral in WoD on a few of our Archimonde kills

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It was also a rank 8 parse

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And I was barely doing more damage than 65th percentile parses for other specs

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So it's not like Feral was not undertuned just because i happened to put up a monster parse 😛

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SimC does have faults, but I don't believe some of their devs shouldn't be quite so dismissive of things that are presented to them by people who know what they are doing as far as TC work goes

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Don't expect them to react to stack ranks or w/e but if someone like Babs sits down and puts together a comprehensive view of WW scaling issues (as he did,) it's pretty frustrating as a SimC dev to see that get almost completely dismissed because "sims are unreliable data"

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So I think they could probably strike as little bit of a better balance in terms of how they handle sims

true briar Oct 9, 2017, 7:49 PM

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!simc

steel zealotBOT Oct 9, 2017, 7:49 PM

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How to sim yourself - guide: https://goo.gl/YACUkz

Download simulationcraft: https://simulationcraft.org/
Or use Raidbots: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot

plucky mural Oct 9, 2017, 9:04 PM

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Is there an easy script to turn on 2p 4p tier21 bonuses and disable T20 for PTR?

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or should I just log in and /simc grab the gear. (it crashed a lot last time I tried)

lofty kiln Oct 9, 2017, 9:06 PM

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set_bonus=tier20_2pc=0

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etc

plucky mural Oct 9, 2017, 9:06 PM

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thanks.

feral crystal Oct 10, 2017, 12:14 AM

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I would actually love for the respective class devs to provide input and invest in building and developing it as a collaborative tool

grizzled estuary Oct 10, 2017, 9:10 AM

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Any theorycrafter that can check assassination apl?
The opener is still with vendetta as first skill

torn dome Oct 10, 2017, 9:17 AM

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And thats because it still yields highest sim dps

grizzled estuary Oct 10, 2017, 9:28 AM

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So that is the optimal opener?

torn dome Oct 10, 2017, 9:44 AM

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Thats whst yields the highest sim dps

fallow wave Oct 10, 2017, 9:58 AM

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http://tc.ravenholdt.net/combinations/rogue_subtlety_t19m_1t.html

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Mantle + Belt on top for heroic gear?

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Good to know!

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T20 4H

grizzled estuary Oct 10, 2017, 10:02 AM

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Doesnt make sense tbh but thanks for the clarification @torn dome

full kindle Oct 10, 2017, 10:02 AM

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Look on url

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T19 M

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So if you have m T19 gear

lunar trout Oct 10, 2017, 10:02 AM

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So I take it the common knowledge and the guides are inaccurate then @torn dome. Looks like we need to query for an update @grizzled estuary.

full kindle Oct 10, 2017, 10:02 AM

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ye mantle belt is aparently best

torn dome Oct 10, 2017, 10:04 AM

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Well thats sim dps. Youd have to know why it comes out on top to really understand it

split sorrel Oct 10, 2017, 10:27 AM

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^

tranquil dust Oct 10, 2017, 2:19 PM

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hey can someone help me to find out which relic atm i have to wear ? 😃

merry cloud Oct 10, 2017, 2:45 PM

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https://www.raidbots.com

Raidbots

light void Oct 11, 2017, 7:02 AM

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@grizzled estuary head + mantle sims highest aswell, but yet mantle + bracers are still somewhat better.

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thats another example tho

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@lunar trout why exactly should the guides be inaccurate?

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what some people aswell dont seem to know: the sims are run on a specific gearset and having different offset items aswell changes the value of legendaries.

proper cairn Oct 11, 2017, 7:09 AM

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(by a lot)

lament ice Oct 11, 2017, 9:29 AM

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!relics

steel zealotBOT Oct 11, 2017, 9:29 AM

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List of relics for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/

lament ice Oct 11, 2017, 9:38 AM

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!trinkets

steel zealotBOT Oct 11, 2017, 9:38 AM

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List of trinkets for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/

silk edge Oct 11, 2017, 9:40 AM

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Is there a reason I drop 500k on sim when I change out two items, the two totalling a ~60 ilvl upgrade?

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non jewelry

gaunt gale Oct 11, 2017, 9:56 AM

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that sounds like a corrupted /simc output?

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broken artifact or weapon maybe?

silk edge Oct 11, 2017, 9:59 AM

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probably, Ill check it out later gots go to now

lunar trout Oct 11, 2017, 1:11 PM

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@light void That was mostly just sarcasm, which I'll admit didn't translate well over the internet. Basically, most are familiar with gear differences between simulations and real world use, like Zoldyc's being a great item due to its effectiveness in a variety of situations and on extended execute phases during progression due to player deaths. However, in terms of rotation, the information is sparce; my snarky response was to highlight that when someone comes to the Discord to ask the question "The APL opens with Vendetta as its first spell - is that optimal?", dismissing them with "it sims highest" is not a helpful approach to take.

torn dome Oct 11, 2017, 1:46 PM

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Thats the correct answer. You are free to interpt it to your liking

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And you are free to change ven usage yourself

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Me saying guides need updating or which is better is judt subjective.
But said apl line objectively is better

regal agate Oct 11, 2017, 2:11 PM

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sin bracers are likely slightly undervalued, but infexius looks into that, you might want to ask him how his progress is going.

rough girder Oct 11, 2017, 4:32 PM

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https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tuFm1ks1UojZKbinWydnYa So i just swapped out my CoF and i pull slightly higher dps with bracer, mantle then boots, mantle on the sims but on encounters i feel so damn starved all the time with bracers.. What would you guys run?

Raidbots

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im sin btw.

maiden cargo Oct 12, 2017, 6:39 AM

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Does sims take decreasing boss HP into consideration? Asking because I was surprised to see cindaria coming on top when compared to sub boots

round canyon Oct 12, 2017, 6:45 AM

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yes

strong rune Oct 12, 2017, 6:59 AM

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it's somewhere in between 'yes" and "no"

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yes, it takes the boss "health percentile" into account if you're using the health estimator

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but the effect doesn't map exactly to what a raid will do

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the belt is slightly overvalued

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but not hugely

maiden cargo Oct 12, 2017, 7:00 AM

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Well, I sim thru raidbot. Is there an option for boss health?

strong rune Oct 12, 2017, 7:00 AM

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you can take a look at the target's health in the sim, and see how fast it goes through the first 10%

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and then look how much damage cinidaria is giving you in the details

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and then look at your actual boss fights and normalize accordingly

maiden cargo Oct 12, 2017, 7:01 AM

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Maybe I’m overdoing it? Why couldn’t my mantle just drop 😂

strong rune Oct 12, 2017, 7:01 AM

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😃

maiden cargo Oct 12, 2017, 7:02 AM

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Anyways shouldn’t complain, 2 LEGO’s in 2 days. Even tho KJ and Cindaria

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But thanks for the info, will look into it

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Just did a quick sim, can't find the option https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9gKkexQszTZzuZ3iR9Z2qc

Raidbots

regal agate Oct 12, 2017, 8:24 AM

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@strong rune was slightly undervalued last time i compared with logs

strong rune Oct 12, 2017, 8:26 AM

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interesting, i haven't looked in a while

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hilariously, i sim highest with ravenholdt ring

ashen crater Oct 12, 2017, 6:16 PM

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@maiden cargo open the full html report. Then scroll down to the fluffy pillow's buffs.

maiden cargo Oct 12, 2017, 6:17 PM

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Thanks Andryl

jagged bay Oct 12, 2017, 7:07 PM

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Can someone sim me and then DM me the result, currently have Shadowblade ring and Belt as legos, can you do it with Shoulders with either of these as im getting very strange results

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Rivitez-Silvermoon

shy dove Oct 12, 2017, 8:27 PM

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does anyone know where i can get my pawn string in sim craft i cant find it

willow pecan Oct 12, 2017, 9:12 PM

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!sim

knotty oriole Oct 13, 2017, 1:11 AM

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@strong rune Almost completely depends on if you are running with fixed_time or not. With fixed_time, the belt is slightly overvalued (you will never get full value like that in a real fight because of lust and other cooldowns on the pull) but without fixed_time it is quite undervalued because you (for the same reason) do a disproportionate amount of damage on the pull. So it will almost always be > 2.5% that you would see by default.

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Unfortunately, I don't think we have a way of massaging specific health decades to match "reality" very well here. 😦

tight silo Oct 13, 2017, 3:14 AM

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What is the general consesus on askmrrobot simulation? Garbage or good? Trying to figure out if I am missing something crucial in my rotation. It sims for 800K on the dummy, the best I can get is 660K on the dummy. I over cap combo points some but I can't be 140k dps bad.

bitter gate Oct 13, 2017, 7:31 AM

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@shy dove you have to check "stats value/scaling" on simcraft.
Check Agi, Haste, Crit, Mastery and Vers.

lunar trout Oct 13, 2017, 10:30 AM

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@tight silo General consensus is it's fairly accurate, although it's possible some minor details may not be modelled correctly. The only options we really have for number crunching as regular consumers are Ask Mr Robot or SimulationCraft. If your concerned about the validity of your results on one of those, try it on the other too, as the results should be relatively similar. If they are similar, your results are probably accurate. If there is a relatively large discrepancy, then there may be an issue with the accuracy in your case.

As for your specifics, there are lots of nuances that squeeze out those extra points of DPS - it seems most likely that you need to polish up on those. What spec are you playing?

tight silo Oct 14, 2017, 5:33 AM

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@lunar trout thanks, I am playing Sub right now had a similar loss with outlaw, but not as pronounced

quartz wave Oct 14, 2017, 10:31 AM

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I'm having the same issue, honestly. Simbots say I should be getting about 566k, but... I get 350k and that's being generous.

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I have the optimal burst rotation macro'd, too. So I burst for like, 1.3 million and then it just falls.

boreal patrol Oct 14, 2017, 11:09 AM

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you'd have to specify your scenario, it's usually hard to compare an arbitrary situation to sim DPS

quartz wave Oct 14, 2017, 11:29 AM

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Anything from target dummies to normal Goroth. I'm 876 ilvl, but... I don't really feel like I am. Rip lmao

tight silo Oct 14, 2017, 2:56 PM

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Thanks again, I am not going to try to work out my rotation issue in the sim thread, was just trying to get an idea as to whether or not I was killing myself for nothing.

clever fossil Oct 14, 2017, 5:46 PM

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Anyone here whom could help me with my rogue?

maiden cargo Oct 14, 2017, 6:24 PM

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Hi, what settings do I use to try and simulate best gear for Mythic + when using raidbots?

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is it the heavy add cleave setting?

peak fable Oct 14, 2017, 9:08 PM

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im sure this is asked all the time, but does Raidbots sim relics accurately without me importing data from simc? like if i select all the proper tier traits and stuff, it factors it in and sims accurate?

dull elk Oct 15, 2017, 1:53 AM

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anyone know how to sim eye of command so that you loose your buff every minute?

silent ruin Oct 16, 2017, 9:31 PM

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Is "AskMrRobot" worth it anymore? I'm pretty new to simming

regal agate Oct 16, 2017, 9:32 PM

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the majority uses raidbots > askmr

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tho its personal preference and comes down to the spec

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assasination is close in result in both tools

silent ruin Oct 16, 2017, 9:37 PM

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okay cool. thanks

stone tinsel Oct 16, 2017, 10:38 PM

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@willow pecan

strong willow Oct 17, 2017, 3:29 PM

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do you guys think we are going to be using the pantheon trinkets

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next tier?

maiden cargo Oct 17, 2017, 5:12 PM

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Y E S

ivory stag Oct 18, 2017, 10:10 AM

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no

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double 850 frond ez

nova girder Oct 18, 2017, 7:31 PM

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To Askmrrobot, did anyone ever did this gearing stagedy thing for sub? It shows crit>all if versa and mastery are at 9000 points? 🤔

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Is it even possible to reach 100% crit with 7/7 GR + Crit from gear?

onyx escarp Oct 18, 2017, 7:35 PM

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Yes, shoulder leggo + stealth, next question 😃

eager plover Oct 18, 2017, 8:58 PM

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!sim

tacit robin Oct 18, 2017, 9:05 PM

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the 4 set bonus on fanged is how important?

vital nymph Oct 19, 2017, 12:40 AM

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Are there any Sims of T21 sets?

boreal patrol Oct 19, 2017, 8:31 AM

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we will push the first set of T21 preview results to the TC site soon

balmy coral Oct 19, 2017, 10:03 AM

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What's looking better next patch Sub or assassination

maiden cargo Oct 19, 2017, 10:24 AM

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Both of them

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At the same time

vital nymph Oct 19, 2017, 8:45 PM

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@boreal patrol awesome. Thanks for your efforts

stark sentinel Oct 19, 2017, 9:00 PM

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@boreal patrol soon TM ?

maiden cargo Oct 19, 2017, 9:02 PM

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?

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if he says soon its soon

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if you really want it fast do it yourself

regal agate Oct 19, 2017, 9:08 PM

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soon™

split sorrel Oct 19, 2017, 11:11 PM

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It's coming 😃

fallow wave Oct 19, 2017, 11:28 PM

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gooood

brave adder Oct 20, 2017, 12:41 AM

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rotates @split sorrel

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AMR went on strke for me

willow badger Oct 20, 2017, 11:07 PM

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!sim

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!relics

steel zealotBOT Oct 20, 2017, 11:07 PM

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List of relics for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/

gray_hounds relic sheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vmVwWWnNhrbzi0S_qK6emjFquyUexbTmOEov7vkRjjg/edit#gid=0

willow badger Oct 20, 2017, 11:08 PM

#

!legendaries

#

!legendary

stray portal Oct 21, 2017, 6:21 AM

#

Any way I can test trinket values vs. cof adjusted for the upcoming nerf?

proper cairn Oct 21, 2017, 6:33 AM

#

enable ptr I suppose

#

should be up to date

hallow gull Oct 21, 2017, 11:34 AM

#

Quick question, are the Antorus trinkets implemented yet on simcraft? Want to sim them for my rogue so I have an idea of what to be aiming for

fervent onyx Oct 21, 2017, 4:46 PM

#

They are but not on released build IFAIK

ashen crater Oct 21, 2017, 9:46 PM

#

Is there a way in simulationcraft to give yourself a % damage done buff for periods of time in the fight? I'm trying to model the bufferfish on mistress. I found the raid event vulnerable, but I don't want to do double damage.

lofty kiln Oct 21, 2017, 9:47 PM

#

There's a damage_done raid event, you can give it the usual parameters and also a multiplier

ashen crater Oct 21, 2017, 9:48 PM

#

what's the syntax?

lofty kiln Oct 21, 2017, 9:52 PM

#

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki/RaidEvents

ashen crater Oct 21, 2017, 9:53 PM

#

I looked there. I don't see a damage_done or multiplier raid event?

lofty kiln Oct 21, 2017, 9:54 PM

#

raid_events+=/damage_done,cooldown=...,duration=...,...,multiplier=... etc

ashen crater Oct 21, 2017, 9:58 PM

#

huh, I must be doing something wrong, I'm getting an error using: raid_events+=/damage_done,cooldown=150,duration=30,multiplier=1.3

iron elk Oct 23, 2017, 11:30 AM

#

11/10 version of simulationcraft has the updated t21?

torn dome Oct 23, 2017, 11:46 AM

#

T21 has been in sim for a while. Just use ptr=1

iron elk Oct 23, 2017, 11:48 AM

#

i mean, with the new stats distribution

torn dome Oct 23, 2017, 12:07 PM

#

That Im not sure. Would have to sim and see the stats

fair mulch Oct 23, 2017, 9:10 PM

#

Link to fuus sims?

spiral pebble Oct 24, 2017, 1:14 AM

#

Is there any sims released for all classes for Antorus yet?

#

to get a rough overview of what classes will be doing well?

gaunt gale Oct 24, 2017, 2:28 AM

#

I don't think so, and even if they were, balance tuning is going to happen in week 1 of heroic, and possibly in 7.3.5

cyan marsh Oct 24, 2017, 7:56 AM

#

because we all know how well they do with those balanace patches

silver merlin Oct 24, 2017, 7:56 AM

#

Does simc run Engine as 4 orbs or not? Are there any way to configure it?

gaunt gale Oct 24, 2017, 8:00 AM

#

yes, 4 orbs

#

and there is a thing to configure it, but I can't for the life of me remember what it is

silver merlin Oct 24, 2017, 8:02 AM

#

Thanks. (looking ant 300 dps difference between engine and statstick) i`ll stick with statstick then because M Misteress is chaos.

granite gust Oct 24, 2017, 8:56 AM

#

@orchid pulsar

full kindle Oct 24, 2017, 9:09 AM

#

@silver merlin You can modify it using "legion.engine_of_eradication_orbs=x"

#

replace X for the orbe count you want

south hull Oct 24, 2017, 11:31 AM

#

!trinket

iron elk Oct 24, 2017, 3:12 PM

#

there is a way in simcraft to add in the raid summary the variance/standard deviation on the windows with minmax/quartiles/mean that pop up when you move the cursore on dps bars?

strong rune Oct 24, 2017, 6:10 PM

#

If you want to do that sort of thing you may want to interact with the JSON output directly.

dark obsidian Oct 24, 2017, 10:18 PM

#

hey guys, is t21 bugged in raidbots when using gear comapre? Or is this sim correct? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/zdvVqt8v38W7Ko3Z5nd8a

Raidbots

regal agate Oct 24, 2017, 10:20 PM

#

t20 is stronger then t21 from pure bonus, so seems possible

covert zenith Oct 24, 2017, 11:43 PM

#

!sim

spiral bluff Oct 25, 2017, 5:50 AM

#

So in the newest nightly for SimC (23. october), do I need to enable PTR to get in the CoF nerf, or is it already there for the live option?

regal agate Oct 25, 2017, 7:29 AM

#

if you dont build from source or wait for the next simc release you need to use ptr=1

#

raidbots should be up to date

spiral bluff Oct 25, 2017, 9:53 AM

#

allright, ty

feral crystal Oct 25, 2017, 11:04 AM

#

is there code to augment how many people in your raid have infernal cinders? on raidbots

gaunt gale Oct 25, 2017, 11:08 AM

#

yes

#

legion.infernal_cinders_users=x I think?

feral crystal Oct 25, 2017, 11:10 AM

#

thank you 😃 I'm guessing that goes in advanced sim on raidbots

gaunt gale Oct 25, 2017, 11:11 AM

#

yeah

#

I could be wrong about the exact line you need

feral crystal Oct 25, 2017, 11:14 AM

#

is it users including or excluding yourself?

gaunt gale Oct 25, 2017, 11:16 AM

#

literally no idea. haven't actually used it myself

feral crystal Oct 25, 2017, 12:07 PM

#

yeah I think it includes yourself, and it works ty 😃

lunar trout Oct 26, 2017, 2:20 PM

#

I assume the Convergence of Fates nerf is in the current SimulationCraft nightly build? Didnt see it in a glance at the commits.

gaunt gale Oct 26, 2017, 2:34 PM

#

probably came from the spelldata dump, rather than coding change

snow grail Oct 27, 2017, 7:26 AM

#

!trinkets

steel zealotBOT Oct 27, 2017, 7:26 AM

#

List of trinkets for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/

formal oyster Oct 29, 2017, 10:55 AM

#

hm every guide said that this is the statsorder mastery > vers > crit > haste, but everytime i simmed my rogue its crit > vers > mastery haste . i think i do something wrong

regal agate Oct 29, 2017, 11:04 AM

#

there is nothing wrong. having low amounts of certain attributes makes them stronger also your equipment plays a role. As an example critical strike will be higher rated if you use insignia or don't use the shoulder legendary. The suggested order is just a base for orientation. These stats are the ones you benefit the most in general, this does not mean your equipment lvl and gear does represent this estimate.

formal oyster Oct 29, 2017, 11:12 AM

#

hm ok thank you fuu

polar trout Oct 29, 2017, 5:36 PM

#

!trinkets

steel zealotBOT Oct 29, 2017, 5:36 PM

#

List of trinkets for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/

fickle sundial Oct 29, 2017, 9:09 PM

#

is 4 min the "standard" duration too sim? Just started using radibots site, dnt remember what I had saved on the simc program

finite thunder Oct 29, 2017, 9:23 PM

#

standard is 300s (5 minutes)

#

but you should simulate more than just that, 2min-3min for short fights, and you can simulate longer fights as well

primal slate Oct 30, 2017, 12:29 AM

#

is uh, this normal? Vendetta from stealth in opener?

📎 unknown.png

willow pecan Oct 30, 2017, 1:31 AM

#

That gives the bets result on SimC
not neccasarily means it's what you should do in-game

wraith summit Oct 30, 2017, 10:27 PM

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Hey, when simming your relics in simcraft. How do you find the right ID on wowhead for the ilvl 910 relics?

#

Can onyl find the ilvl sgoing up to 885

maiden cargo Oct 30, 2017, 10:27 PM

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just use raidbots my friend

wraith summit Oct 30, 2017, 10:28 PM

#

kk it accurate?

finite thunder Oct 30, 2017, 11:17 PM

#

raidbot use simc

#

just with a more friendly interface

#

@wraith summit

wraith summit Oct 30, 2017, 11:18 PM

#

Okay thanks 😊

sudden linden Oct 30, 2017, 11:59 PM

#

were the t21 sims using bracers done with CoF or not?

boreal patrol Oct 31, 2017, 12:25 AM

#

t21 is without cof

#

ilevel difference is too big

maiden cargo Oct 31, 2017, 12:26 AM

#

basically, the CoF changes are made to not have that big of an impact for now, but kill CoF god-like scaling

#

so even if now ppl still use it with bracers if adequate ilvl, its doomed to disappear for some other trinkets

sudden linden Oct 31, 2017, 12:41 AM

#

ah ok

#

interesting to see bracers are still really good (only slightly behind gloves) even without cof

clear ocean Oct 31, 2017, 11:29 AM

#

Belt, Insignia whats the insignia which is mentioned on the TC/reavenholdt`?

boreal patrol Oct 31, 2017, 11:35 AM

#

Insignia of Ravenholdt, Grand Army is called "Crucible"

clear ocean Oct 31, 2017, 12:43 PM

#

THX

autumn knoll Oct 31, 2017, 2:30 PM

#

any1 know why my void stalkers contract sims so low compared to specter?

#

like a 915 specter is waay better than a 945 contract

maiden cargo Oct 31, 2017, 2:35 PM

#

Sim and send APL pls

noble pendant Nov 1, 2017, 1:50 AM

#

do raid bosses still have armor these days? and if yes, what does simulationcraft use as a number?

split sorrel Nov 1, 2017, 1:56 AM

#

There is a table

#

In SimC repo

#

And yes, it depends on level

noble pendant Nov 1, 2017, 2:31 AM

#

thanks

boreal patrol Nov 1, 2017, 9:40 AM

#

i have a data spreadsheet for that https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/118uUBO8DhIlkkG9v-00coXBf4BYzjzme18UlHYy6SZ0/edit#gid=326642905

#

also used that to note down how DPS increase in old content works

maiden cargo Nov 1, 2017, 5:53 PM

#

Hi, wich setting do you recommend using to sim aoe top gear on raidbots? Hectic Add cleave?

hallow gull Nov 1, 2017, 8:10 PM

#

Whats's the reduction given by each MA trait these days? i'm seeing some really wonky numbers on my sims, the 6th trait seems to be a tiny upgrade but the 7th is massive, I thought they reduced the time reduction for each subsequent point

ashen crater Nov 1, 2017, 10:08 PM

#

@hallow gull they did. However you're probably crossing a threshold with the 7th point that lets you better line up cooldowns.

hallow gull Nov 1, 2017, 10:10 PM

#

do you know what the actual values are? I thought it decreased by 2 seconds per rank but the maths doesn't work out for that so i assume they changed it?

torn dome Nov 2, 2017, 7:17 AM

#

Its been 10/8/6/4 ever since

polar trout Nov 2, 2017, 11:19 AM

#

!trinkets

hallow gull Nov 2, 2017, 12:44 PM

#

@torn dome what about after the 4th? I currently have 5 points and it gives me 44 seconds of reduction, which would mean the 5th point would have to give 16 seconds of reduction if the first 4 give 28?

gaunt gale Nov 2, 2017, 12:46 PM

#

thats for points after 1st 3 iirc?

hallow gull Nov 2, 2017, 12:46 PM

#

aah

#

ok that would make sense

gaunt gale Nov 2, 2017, 12:46 PM

#

so you can't get more than 7 anyway 😃

hallow gull Nov 2, 2017, 12:46 PM

#

ye

#

so the 4th is 8, 5th is 6, 6th is 4 and 7th is 2

#

which makes it even more odd how the 7th point sims as a massive dps increase for me compared to the 6th

gaunt gale Nov 2, 2017, 12:48 PM

#

I'm pretty sure 7 is 4 as well

#

but haven't tested

hallow gull Nov 2, 2017, 12:50 PM

#

yea your right it is 4

#

📎 unknown.png

#

I have 5 baseline atm, 4+1 relic

#

so I guess I need to be farming those relics to get MA on everything

torn dome Nov 2, 2017, 1:03 PM

#

10/10/10/8/6/4/4/

maiden cargo Nov 2, 2017, 1:21 PM

#

use_item,name=void_stalkers_contract,if=(buff.shadow_dance.up)

#

thats what the line should be for the trinket but currently it only uses in shadow blades

#

📎 943da183cc604cd2122f1d47f1e9ab8d.png

gray minnow Nov 2, 2017, 1:24 PM

#

How does t20 2set + t21 2set looking compared to t21 4set ?

torn dome Nov 2, 2017, 1:25 PM

#

Cause thats default engine action for trinks @maiden cargo

maiden cargo Nov 2, 2017, 1:25 PM

#

Yeah I know

torn dome Nov 2, 2017, 1:25 PM

#

Only those that are specified diviate from that

maiden cargo Nov 2, 2017, 1:25 PM

#

Just like it was hindering specter from bis for sin

#

because it used in vendetta only

#

Im doing issue on github

#

@torn dome how do you make it use on cd without any conditions

split sorrel Nov 2, 2017, 1:27 PM

#

remove conditions @maiden cargo

maiden cargo Nov 2, 2017, 1:27 PM

#

use_item,name=void_stalkers_contract

#

?

split sorrel Nov 2, 2017, 1:27 PM

#

yes

maiden cargo Nov 2, 2017, 1:27 PM

#

Alright

torn dome Nov 2, 2017, 1:28 PM

#

Ye thats on cd. Alternatively just simple use items

#

use_items
And any usable item will be used

maiden cargo Nov 2, 2017, 1:29 PM

#

I see, thank you

eager plover Nov 3, 2017, 12:17 AM

#

anyone have links to antorus sims?

maiden cargo Nov 3, 2017, 12:21 AM

#

It's in channels pins

split sorrel Nov 3, 2017, 12:27 AM

#

It is not anymore

#

You can retrieve current researches on http://tc.ravenholdt.net/ 😃

#

/!\ WIP /!\

clear ocean Nov 3, 2017, 5:38 PM

#

Have there been any changes to Shadowfocus?

#

Due to its Sims higher than Nightstalker

regal agate Nov 3, 2017, 5:45 PM

#

thats a side effect of losing t20 4p energy gain

proven leaf Nov 6, 2017, 2:47 PM

#

I just looked at this sim profile and it shows our max burst at 3.6 million dps: http://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/T21_Raid.html
We currently burst higher than that at 930. Is something going to change in tier 21 that hurts our burst dps?

regal agate Nov 6, 2017, 2:50 PM

#

thats due to how the graph is build

#

its not an issue of the sim just sth the graph represents diffrent form the other one you compare it with

proven leaf Nov 6, 2017, 2:50 PM

#

Oh, okay

novel lava Nov 6, 2017, 2:52 PM

#

changing nightstalker to shadow focus, and losing t20 2pc, is a 21.7% damage loss during the first 10 seconds of a fight

light void Nov 6, 2017, 2:53 PM

#

^

proven leaf Nov 6, 2017, 2:53 PM

#

Hmm, that's true too. I guess it's a combination of things

late willow Nov 6, 2017, 4:33 PM

#

Do we know if the new legendary trinkets have the proc enabled in simc? Since it requires others in the raid to also have it proc?

boreal patrol Nov 6, 2017, 4:40 PM

#

empowered procs are disabled by default, iirc

late willow Nov 6, 2017, 5:04 PM

#

thanks

jade zenith Nov 6, 2017, 6:40 PM

#

dfa is likely to be the top talent t21?

regal agate Nov 7, 2017, 3:04 PM

#

yes dfa seem to be superior to mfd in 7.3.2 so far

ashen crater Nov 8, 2017, 3:19 AM

#

Anyone remember the command for assuming not all engine of eradication orbs are picked up in simcraft?
FYI a pinned message with all the legion commands would be super helpful.

#

nvm I found it: legion.engine_of_eradication_orbs=

regal agate Nov 8, 2017, 10:18 AM

#

Useful SimC commands:
legion.engine_of_eradication_orbs=x
Alters the amount of orbs you pick up. X defines the amount of orbs reaching from 0 to 4.

set_bonus=TierXY_4pc=1```
Enables/disables Tier set effects. XY defines the Tier (e.g. 19,20,21). 1 enables the effect and 0 disables it.
```legion.infernal_cinders_users=x```
Alters the amount of users that use cinders in the raid. X defines the amount of users.
1 is the default value. 
```legion.specter_of_betrayal_overlap=x```
Defines if Specters of betrayal overlaps. X is the probability of the overlap. The range is from 0 (no overlap) to 1 (100% overlap). A value of 0.5 would represent a chance of 50%.
```legion.pantheon_trinket_users=```
Defines what/how many pantheon trinkets are used. Every Trinket needs to be added manually. The first 2 letters of the Trinket name define the trinket.Some Trinkets are hasted (golganneth & enoar) so you need to add a specific value for them by adding :<value> to it. Here is a table showing the values:
`Aggramar 1.4
Aman'thul 1.4
Golganneth 1.8 x haste
Eonar 1.2 x haste
Khaz'goroth 1.4
Norgannon 1.4`
Trinkets are seperated by a `/`.


NOTE: Trinket conditions don't work with copy due to implementation.
NOTE: check <https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki/ExpansionOptions#pantheon-trinket-system>

#

proper cairn Nov 8, 2017, 1:37 PM

#

nice job

maiden cargo Nov 8, 2017, 2:46 PM

#

hi how do I sim specter without overlap

#

@regal agate

regal agate Nov 8, 2017, 2:54 PM

#

📎 image.png

maiden cargo Nov 8, 2017, 2:55 PM

#

i cant read

#

can u spell it for me

regal agate Nov 8, 2017, 2:56 PM

#

legion.specter_of_betrayal_overlap=0

maiden cargo Nov 8, 2017, 3:08 PM

#

😁

lean oxide Nov 8, 2017, 3:08 PM

#

I'm having trouble accessing the guide, but does anyone have q quick reference for comparing relics taking into account their Netherlight Crucible traits?

boreal patrol Nov 8, 2017, 3:54 PM

#

raidbots.com relic compare 😄

lean oxide Nov 8, 2017, 4:08 PM

#

Hah, good to know. I've been out of the simming game for a while so today was my first introduction to Raidbots!

#

Didn't realize things had moved to a web based simming platform.

regal agate Nov 8, 2017, 4:18 PM

#

raidbots is still simcraft, just in the ☁

oblique pecan Nov 8, 2017, 5:47 PM

#

How can one sim all possible relic traits for current gear?

coarse topaz Nov 9, 2017, 2:25 AM

#

Sub has a pin with the simc profile for relic traits

buoyant parcel Nov 9, 2017, 3:18 PM

#

do we have sims including the pantheon procs?

split sorrel Nov 9, 2017, 3:48 PM

#

no.

ashen crater Nov 9, 2017, 7:41 PM

#

Where can we see the profiles used in the ravenholdt sims?

boreal patrol Nov 9, 2017, 9:15 PM

#

for the combinations?

#

https://github.com/Ravenholdt-TC/SimcScripts/tree/master/profiles/Combinator/Rogue

GitHub

Ravenholdt-TC/SimcScripts

SimcScripts - Ruby scripts for automating SimulationCraft

ashen crater Nov 9, 2017, 10:51 PM

#

Thanks

split sorrel Nov 9, 2017, 10:52 PM

#

😉

ashen crater Nov 9, 2017, 10:53 PM

#

I think sub with a crit build and insignia and gloomblade may outperform the mastery build with hands. I'll play around with it tonight.

split sorrel Nov 9, 2017, 10:53 PM

#

let us know

ashen crater Nov 9, 2017, 10:58 PM

#

What fight duration is it run for?

#

Default sim settings? 300 +- 20%?

maiden cargo Nov 9, 2017, 10:59 PM

#

6mins i believe

#

maybe 5

ashen crater Nov 10, 2017, 4:15 AM

#

Here's my results:
I switched out mastery gear, gems, and enchants for crit; switched out Shadow-Singed Fang for Seeping Scourgewing; and changed relics/crucible traits to 3 weak point and 3 energetic stabbing. I tested each change as I made it and they were each a dps increase.

📎 T21_Sub_w_new_gear.html

#

📎 unknown.png

maiden cargo Nov 10, 2017, 4:19 AM

#

What set ilvl did you use ?

#

And relics

#

Are they relics from ToS ?

#

Or from antorus

ashen crater Nov 10, 2017, 4:20 AM

#

antorus, and base mythic ilevels. Please check the .html to make sure I followed all the gear rules

maiden cargo Nov 10, 2017, 4:20 AM

#

On phone i cannot see

#

So it was 930 t20 and mythic t21?

ashen crater Nov 10, 2017, 4:22 AM

#

yes

maiden cargo Nov 10, 2017, 4:22 AM

#

Sounds good

#

Relics are base mythic too I guess

ashen crater Nov 10, 2017, 4:22 AM

#

yep, 2 at 970, 1 at 960

maiden cargo Nov 10, 2017, 4:23 AM

#

Would like to see how it goes with lucky t20

#

Probably interesting

finite thunder Nov 10, 2017, 4:23 AM

#

belt+ insignia? have you tested that with gloomblade?

maiden cargo Nov 10, 2017, 4:23 AM

#

Thats the sim

#

It's gloomblade

#

Imagine with our t20 jhon 🤔

finite thunder Nov 10, 2017, 4:24 AM

#

oh yeah, the second best its without gloomblade , sry xd

willow stone Nov 10, 2017, 8:32 AM

#

Top projected spec next tier?

pastel sundial Nov 10, 2017, 8:33 AM

#

playing with gloomblade since few weeks

#

its fun

gray flume Nov 10, 2017, 8:41 AM

#

Is there a way on raidbots that I can sim talents and multiple gear sets simultaneously?

boreal patrol Nov 10, 2017, 10:49 AM

#

@Andryl#7403 interesting i'll check it out later

#

looks like i did not change the trinket for combinator yet, simc default profile already uses scourgewing

full kindle Nov 10, 2017, 11:43 AM

#

@gray flume You can

#

I don't know if you already used SimPermut Add-On, but it's pretty much the same, the add on basicly create a set of equipment with the gear un checked, you need to use the same syntax

#

And you specify ur self each set you want to sim, send me a message so we don't spam this chat, I'ill explain

stark sentinel Nov 10, 2017, 3:20 PM

#

any reason why the "normal" assasination profile (not the exang one) was removed from the simc overview ? (yesterday it was there)

torn dome Nov 10, 2017, 3:20 PM

#

To only have top specs showing

#

Instead of flooding the list with 167 rogue specs

#

Builds rather

split sorrel Nov 10, 2017, 3:23 PM

#

other classes complained

#

so only the best is shown on simc stacked homepage

regal agate Nov 10, 2017, 3:26 PM

#

we sill have all combinations on the RH TC sims, so if you want to see how they compare, feel free to look at those (link is in the pins)

stark sentinel Nov 10, 2017, 3:33 PM

#

oh ok, thx 😦

#

one more thing, on simc is t20 2p+ t21 4p, and on the RH TC sims its shows t214p best

rocky quiver Nov 11, 2017, 4:15 AM

#

seems like rogue is at the bottom

warm aspen Nov 11, 2017, 4:15 AM

#

The difference is ~0.4%. However the t20 2p will make your rotation a bit easier. Less energy cost and a shorter cooldown on Garrote could be a big deal on multi target fights.

split sorrel Nov 11, 2017, 7:55 AM

#

@rocky quiver :

#

The thing to keep in mind is on a Patchwerk fight Subtlety >= Assassination, but do remember that not every fights are Patchwerk!```

#

This apply to us, but also others

#

And also that we have spec that supports really well the downtime (assassination, but subtlety aswell if the timing are good)

#

I'm pretty sure there will be final tuning 😃 😃

ebon summit Nov 11, 2017, 3:54 PM

#

everyone panic!

storm vault Nov 11, 2017, 7:02 PM

#

@split sorrel I believe there is an issue with the simcraft profile
For 4piece t21 and 2piece t20, they use the t20 helm legs. And use the t21 gloves. However the t20 legs have haste mastery, and the t21 gloves have haste mastery. It would be a dps increase to switch the two, giving crit vers
Shouldn't it be t20 (helm gloves) and t21( legs, chest, cape, shoulders?)

#

I simmed it myself and got a 30k dps increase after the switch

split sorrel Nov 11, 2017, 7:04 PM

#

what spec ?

maiden cargo Nov 11, 2017, 7:04 PM

#

Outlaw

split sorrel Nov 11, 2017, 7:05 PM

#

Possibly

maiden cargo Nov 11, 2017, 7:06 PM

#

📎 lwk.PNG

#

I wish I could send profile lines but raidbots was used

#

But I see two issues

#

Guarm trinket 960
No pantheon trinket

storm vault Nov 11, 2017, 7:07 PM

#

It would be higher using a panth

#

I cant sim without a 2nd trinket

#

So I did my best

maiden cargo Nov 11, 2017, 7:09 PM

#

I think pantheon trinket is in PTR build tho

storm vault Nov 11, 2017, 7:09 PM

#

Let me check

#

I cant find it using raidbots, and I dont have my comp to use simc

#

Think you could sim this new profile for me?

maiden cargo Nov 11, 2017, 7:10 PM

#

Use simC and get the line for it

storm vault Nov 11, 2017, 7:11 PM

#

ah okay

#

Cant seem to do it using raidbots

maiden cargo Nov 11, 2017, 7:17 PM

#

Use simC

storm vault Nov 11, 2017, 7:18 PM

#

I am using the simc profile on raidbots, its not showing greenskins

#

Im at work so I cant use the simc cilent

lofty kiln Nov 11, 2017, 7:44 PM

#

No need to use a client, live data == PTR data

#

Just grab ids from wowhead and you should be fine

maiden cargo Nov 11, 2017, 7:46 PM

#

its to show us his profile

lofty kiln Nov 11, 2017, 7:48 PM

#

The gear section of the HTML report is there as well

#

Assuming you don't do this in top gear

maiden cargo Nov 12, 2017, 5:56 PM

#

Is there a sim made for Trinkets for assassin in ToS?

regal agate Nov 12, 2017, 6:11 PM

#

yes in the pins here or in the spec channel

late willow Nov 13, 2017, 1:49 PM

#

What are the parameters used in the Head/mantle sims for Assn T20 on the ravenholdt site? Why are they simming highest for you all?

willow pecan Nov 13, 2017, 2:52 PM

#

Intresting blog post by @manic pulsar about min/maxing based on simulations

http://forums.askmrrobot.com/t/marksmanship-rotation-analysis/2423

Ask Mr. Robot

Marksmanship Rotation Analysis

In this article I am analyzing the Marksmanship hunter rotation. I will demonstrate how we develop the optimal rotation from a very basic rotation. Also, I will quantify the value of different rotation optimizations. For a graphical version of some of the rotation tests, scroll down to the "4T20 simulation results + a look at legendaries" section, or click here. Optimal DPS is rarely determined by a player's ability to perform complex rotation logic - it is most often determined by their ab...

strong gorge Nov 13, 2017, 3:25 PM

#

While it's an interesting read and standpoint, I still somewhat feel that after practicing the difference between a "simple rotation" and one with a lot more constraints basically has no effect on your focus resource (personal, not hunter energy). If you learn a ruleset and practice it enough, you'll be able to react and play it while focusing on mechanics.
If this is the case, why settle for something that's theoretically worse, when even the most convoluted rotations are so easy to learn to play and react to.

split sorrel Nov 13, 2017, 4:35 PM

#

In case you're struggling on learning a rotation or want to play optimally without exhausting your brain, you can still give a go to rotation helper addon 😉 😉
Although, I do agree with Rosvall on the "rotation complexity".

abstract viper Nov 14, 2017, 6:05 PM

#

anyone here have the sims / apl for the exsang build sims that tried to fish blood of the assassinated

#

i believe these sims were done very early in the expansion

late willow Nov 14, 2017, 6:22 PM

#

try to substitute

actions.maintain+=/rupture,cycle_targets=1,if=combo_points>=cp_max_spend-talent.exsanguinate.enabled&refreshable&(!exsanguinated|remains<=1.5)&target.time_to_die-remains>4

line with

actions.maintain+=/rupture,cycle_targets=1,if=(combo_points>=1)&!debuff.blood_of_the_assassinated.up
👌1

#

Someone else posted that back in January

abstract viper Nov 14, 2017, 6:23 PM

#

thank you very much ❤

late willow Nov 14, 2017, 6:23 PM

#

you can add in like boss.health<30 I think too

abstract viper Nov 14, 2017, 6:23 PM

#

aye

delicate flax Nov 15, 2017, 5:14 AM

#

Hello!
I've been trying to understand the rogue APLs tonight, but i can't find what is the variable 'time'.
Like in this line :

nightblade,if=target.time_to_die>6&remains<gcd.max&combo_points>=4-(time<10)*2

Could anyone help me please 😃 ?

split sorrel Nov 15, 2017, 5:18 AM

#

Combat Time

delicate flax Nov 15, 2017, 5:27 AM

#

Combat time elapsed ?
I mean, i don't understand why it would affect the nightblade's call

#

Oh, is it because of the bloodlust/consumables ?

#

Or is it here only to force a specific opener ?

split sorrel Nov 15, 2017, 5:38 AM

#

2 cp if time <10

#

4 else

#

it's for the opener

delicate flax Nov 15, 2017, 5:39 AM

#

Thanks!

serene scarab Nov 15, 2017, 2:01 PM

#

Is the Agi Argus trinket simmed with or without the pantheon effect?

torn dome Nov 15, 2017, 2:06 PM

#

Should be without

eternal patio Nov 15, 2017, 3:41 PM

#

Highest simming race as a assa/sub rogue?

#

Horde/ally doesnt matter

light void Nov 15, 2017, 3:49 PM

#

doesnt matter

#

its already in your sentence

eternal patio Nov 15, 2017, 3:50 PM

#

I remember seeing a simc list of the pure race dps

#

Was a few k difference between top and bottom

light void Nov 15, 2017, 3:51 PM

#

ye but its so low, you wont ever feel a difference

#

or see

eternal patio Nov 15, 2017, 3:51 PM

#

Doesnt answer my question, i dont mind if the difference is small

#

Im simply asking if anyone got a link

raven knoll Nov 15, 2017, 3:51 PM

#

panda

past dock Nov 15, 2017, 5:14 PM

#

Icyveins has race sims on their rogue guides, idk how accurate they are tho

raw knoll Nov 15, 2017, 5:52 PM

#

Fuu has a race list you could plug into simc in the sub pinned messages. Not sure if it’s still there.

dim lintel Nov 15, 2017, 6:07 PM

#

why is the new sims using gloomblade for sub?

regal agate Nov 15, 2017, 6:10 PM

#

its still there, just go to advanced sims on raidbots and paste the strings below your gear profile

ashen crater Nov 15, 2017, 7:33 PM

#

Interesting combinator results using the new sub profile. Gloomblade and insignia on top as expected. But I'm surprised how competitive marked for death, master of shadows, and alacrity are.

zinc flint Nov 15, 2017, 9:42 PM

#

Hi, according to the sims 4piece t21+2 piece t20 will be best, atleast for ST. Is there any way i can see the profile of the sims? As in what pieces will be best in the respective item slots?

umbral crag Nov 15, 2017, 10:23 PM

#

@zinc flint Best would be t20: shoulders and gloves. you can check it here: http://simulationcraft.org/reports/T21_Raid.html open T21_Rogue_Subtlety_DfA : 2145069 dps and then the gear tab

merry pike Nov 15, 2017, 10:45 PM

#

if you actually go through and look at what u linked

#

youll see

#

its t20 2 piece t21 4 piece with insig/vigor

proven sparrow Nov 15, 2017, 11:10 PM

#

Does seeping scourgewing actually sim higher than specter? Or is it not included to reflect only antorus gear?

#

Since plenty of other spec profiles on the simc front-page include old trinkets (ie owl and cof)

ashen crater Nov 15, 2017, 11:14 PM

#

When I simmed a 960 seeping and a 940 specter they were almost identical.

umbral crag Nov 15, 2017, 11:22 PM

#

@merry pike thats what i meant: t20 shoulders and t20 gloves have the best itemization, the other four slots are t21. Yoe asked for the best items in the tier slots

merry pike Nov 15, 2017, 11:22 PM

#

ah yes yes i can read now hehe

#

🤤

umbral crag Nov 15, 2017, 11:25 PM

#

yeah I understand what you mean, i wrote it a bit confusing^^

drowsy surge Nov 16, 2017, 6:07 PM

#

Both Lego rings should be fun I best start trying for shoulders tier hahah

thorn glacier Nov 16, 2017, 11:23 PM

#

i have 935 shoulders ready lol

restive vessel Nov 21, 2017, 2:38 AM

#

what spec is looking the best for antorus atm?

chrome eagle Nov 21, 2017, 5:11 AM

#

Not the right place for this question, but in general subtlety.

light void Nov 21, 2017, 7:49 AM

#

too early anyways

wary bridge Nov 21, 2017, 9:43 PM

#

anybody have any guess as to why /simc function wont work for me?

#

no addons are outdated

regal agate Nov 21, 2017, 9:44 PM

#

you sure your didn't turn off the addon accidentally?

wary bridge Nov 21, 2017, 9:49 PM

#

i guess that was it, now i feel retarded

#

checkmark does not always mean on i guess

regal agate Nov 21, 2017, 9:56 PM

#

mhm try clearing cach and redownload latest version

graceful tundra Nov 21, 2017, 11:31 PM

#

Anyone have an idea of how long it generally takes for Simcraft to post a new list after these recent hotfixes?

split sorrel Nov 21, 2017, 11:32 PM

#

see #tc-updates

#

it's already in simc since 1 hour or so

abstract viper Nov 21, 2017, 11:33 PM

#

will you run assa profile with other than exsang? or did you run all the possible combinations as well and exsang still stays on top

split sorrel Nov 21, 2017, 11:34 PM

#

It's running

abstract viper Nov 21, 2017, 11:34 PM

#

thanks

split sorrel Nov 21, 2017, 11:34 PM

#

results in 1-2days 😛

#

not sure if I'll push partial results or wait the end of everything

#

will see

abstract viper Nov 21, 2017, 11:35 PM

#

aye doing gods work 👌🏽

graceful tundra Nov 21, 2017, 11:35 PM

#

So the assassination changes are not much? It seems like a big enough change to cause a buff rather than a stalemate (on paper that is)

split sorrel Nov 21, 2017, 11:35 PM

#

2p is a buff, 4p is a nerf

abstract viper Nov 21, 2017, 11:35 PM

#

as of now its doesnt seem to be much for exsang atleast

split sorrel Nov 21, 2017, 11:35 PM

#

so when you mix those things, it ends in "no big changes"

#

yes non exsang could change a bit

#

but don't expect a 200k dps jump

graceful tundra Nov 21, 2017, 11:35 PM

#

Yeah, but the buff to 2p is quite a bit higher, but the poison build is coming as you said earlier right?

#

I simmed in Mr Robot with changing the set myself to the hotfixes, there it gave me a change of 50k DPS extra on a 1.5 mil sim. Is poison build close to or higher than exsang at least?

vague remnant Nov 21, 2017, 11:37 PM

#

It's more of a consistency thing. Same damage but you're less likely to get screwed by RNG is how I see it

coarse topaz Nov 21, 2017, 11:38 PM

#

@split sorrel does ss usage change at all with 4p t21?

regal agate Nov 21, 2017, 11:51 PM

#

no

regal agate Nov 22, 2017, 1:15 AM

#

what?

#

i dont see the issue

lime fox Nov 22, 2017, 1:17 AM

#

1s sorry wrong profile

#

📎 results_html.html

#

deleted the previous profile to no cause more confusion

#

i misspoke as well its not delaying vanish, just the 2nd dance

regal agate Nov 22, 2017, 1:21 AM

#

the sample sequence has a proc that makes first shd ss-evi-ss-evi

#

this means you are with 0 cp out of first shd

#

maybe shadowmelt->vanish would be better in this case

#

but there is nothing wrong else

lime fox Nov 22, 2017, 1:22 AM

#

hmm ya failed to notice the 2cp sh techniques

dense sinew Nov 22, 2017, 6:35 AM

#

/trinkets

subtle wigeon Nov 22, 2017, 7:12 AM

#

can someone direct me to the T21 legendary sims?

light void Nov 22, 2017, 7:20 AM

#

wait a bit

#

sims for the hotfix arent out yet

subtle wigeon Nov 22, 2017, 7:21 AM

#

Oh ok. Thanks will do

light void Nov 22, 2017, 7:25 AM

#

well

#

seemingly they just came out
@split sorrel ? 😄

split sorrel Nov 22, 2017, 7:33 AM

#

😉

#

mythic only tho

subtle wigeon Nov 22, 2017, 7:35 AM

#

better than nothing for now

split sorrel Nov 22, 2017, 7:36 AM

#

😃

#

I don't have huge cpu power yet

#

soonTM 😉

full kindle Nov 22, 2017, 9:23 AM

#

You are runing all the rogues sims on your computer ?

split sorrel Nov 22, 2017, 9:32 AM

#

sadly, yes

#

too many power required to be runned on the cloud

#

or I would have to make someone (or multiple people) paid for that

#

I can run some on raidbots, but it's definetely too much for free

#

Even if seriallos would agree, it's not free for him so I don't want to

full kindle Nov 22, 2017, 9:35 AM

#

Even whith the max patreon account ? I personaly have it, woudn't mind runing some stuff for rogues, as this combinator is huge

#

Your computer must be in heavy pain thoses days x)

split sorrel Nov 22, 2017, 9:36 AM

#

I do have the max patreon account

#

but you can't imagine the amount of sims all this represent I think

#

I'm waiting a new cpu, still not delivered yet

full kindle Nov 22, 2017, 9:41 AM

#

I see, I have a pretty good I idea, I think Fuu linked a combinator result with the raw data on exel, I did some scrolling

#

I hope you get that cpu soon ! 😛

split sorrel Nov 22, 2017, 9:42 AM

#

yes combinator are 40k sims each more or less

#

then you have 5 combinator on the website

#

x 3 specs

full kindle Nov 22, 2017, 9:42 AM

#

Ez, I coud run thoses on my phone

#

😄

split sorrel Nov 22, 2017, 9:42 AM

#

sim time will be cut by 3 or so with the new cpu

#

maybe 4

willow pecan Nov 22, 2017, 9:46 AM

#

what did you get, threadripper?

split sorrel Nov 22, 2017, 9:49 AM

#

na, not enough for my usage

#

i9-7980xe 😃

#

because I don't do simc things only

#

so I wanted a cpu with a lot of threads but also good single thread performance

#

although if u want to build a cheap simc machine

#

just take amd lot-of-threads cpu

willow pecan Nov 22, 2017, 9:50 AM

#

wew, that's one expensive CPU X_X

#

costs like a whole PC

light void Nov 22, 2017, 9:51 AM

#

16 cores

#

me

#

sitting here

#

with 8

#

😄

#

its really somewhat expensive tho

#

payed slightly over 3k for my whole pc

split sorrel Nov 22, 2017, 10:01 AM

#

I don't think you want to know the total price of the machine, but there will be a blogpost with pics about it 😃

proper cairn Nov 22, 2017, 10:02 AM

#

😮

grim rune Nov 22, 2017, 10:54 AM

#

4 piece T21 and 2 piece T20 the way toi go here i guess

regal agate Nov 22, 2017, 10:54 AM

#

depends

grim rune Nov 22, 2017, 10:55 AM

#

isnt that what the sims are pointing to

#

hence the belt insignia shit

#

i know mantle will have reduced effect as gear geets better

#

but belt insignia!>

#

whats wrong with bracers

regal agate Nov 22, 2017, 10:56 AM

#

the simulations only evaluate st fihghts and dont count in TF

grim rune Nov 22, 2017, 10:56 AM

#

Youll have to excuse me. TF?

regal agate Nov 22, 2017, 10:56 AM

#

also there are more then 1 position on the list

#

titan forging

grim rune Nov 22, 2017, 10:56 AM

#

ahhh

#

thank you

#

i mean sims and real life are a lot differewnt

#

and theres a balancing patch coming in

#

Are there a lot of antorus fights were the boss is frequently above 90%?

#

where*

#

mechanic wise

#

hence owing to the belt over other leggos.

regal agate Nov 22, 2017, 10:58 AM

#

i would chose non belt builds > belt

#

also again, the simulation does not mean we cant still use t20 if we have high itemlvl pieces or other combinations

grim rune Nov 22, 2017, 10:59 AM

#

Certainly.

#

I was just curious, ive only recently returned to the game so dont have decent ilvl tier.

#

Just means ill have to start doing some Mythic ToS.

#

During Antorus.

regal agate Nov 22, 2017, 11:02 AM

#

the discussion is better fitting in #subtlety

vivid lagoon Nov 22, 2017, 11:07 AM

#

Belt is shitty anyways

#

:P

split sorrel Nov 22, 2017, 11:12 AM

#

I'll prob remove it from next combinator btw.

#

will see

stark sentinel Nov 22, 2017, 12:10 PM

#

why is outlaw on simc 100k higher than on the combinator despite same talents & legos ? and sub also got up despite t-set nerf ? seems strange

split sorrel Nov 22, 2017, 12:21 PM

#

?

boreal patrol Nov 22, 2017, 12:22 PM

#

gear optimizations in default profile + bugfix mentioned in #tc-updates

#

also if you refer to the simc stacked raid chart, those use pantheon empowerment

light void Nov 22, 2017, 12:40 PM

#

@split sorrel you can let out the "as far as we know" for the pantheon proc

#

it is confirmed that they will only work inside of the raid

split sorrel Nov 22, 2017, 12:40 PM

#

ok wasn't sure

#

but I'll let it

light void Nov 22, 2017, 12:40 PM

#

http://www.wowhead.com/news=274148/argus-pantheon-trinkets-secondary-equip-only-procs-in-antorus-raid

Wowhead

Argus Pantheon Trinkets - Secondary Equip Only Procs in Antorus Raid

Blizzard has clarified that the Pantheon Trinkets from Antorus will only have their secondary equips function within the Antorus raid.

split sorrel Nov 22, 2017, 12:40 PM

#

because u know

#

Blizzard 😄

light void Nov 22, 2017, 12:40 PM

#

its a bluepost if someone asks

#

😄

coarse topaz Nov 22, 2017, 2:39 PM

#

We need simc@home so we can contrubute cpu time to Aethys 😁

grim rune Nov 22, 2017, 3:42 PM

#

is there a BiS list for Sub in antorus anywhere?

rustic tundra Nov 22, 2017, 4:01 PM

#

use simcraft.org best sim for t21, thats your bis list. It can differ if you get wf/tf stuff. sooo 😄

abstract viper Nov 22, 2017, 4:55 PM

#

i got some notes about the t21 assa apl.
Currently the apl uses potion at 2 minute vanish which is off execute, i believe this is not optimal.
The apl also doesnt use empowered garrote for the execute vanish after 4min mark, i believe this might not be optimal

#

if there is any reason at all for not using garrote at the 4min vanish i believe there might be a condition to fish shoulderbuffed pb's but wouldnt it be better to just run nightstalker then

idle sage Nov 22, 2017, 6:23 PM

#

we have simc for t-sets for all classes ?

#

how much % + dps for 2 and 4 pc it gives

#

for antorus

abstract viper Nov 22, 2017, 8:58 PM

#

if theres someone more crafty than me, help me with this line

E 1.00 potion,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=60|debuff.vendetta.up&cooldown.vanish.remains<5

#

this line seems not to work optimally in the current assa apl

#

could changing target.time_to_die<=60 be replaced with if=target.health.pct<35 to make the program pop the 2nd pot at execute

split sorrel Nov 22, 2017, 9:02 PM

#

it's an or (the |)

#

so it'll still use at the next vendetta/vanish sync

abstract viper Nov 22, 2017, 9:02 PM

#

i see

#

could you for example name potion use 1 and 2 and make 2 commands for each to force the potion use

#

for example potion1,if=buff.bloodlust.react|debuff.vendetta.upcooldown.vanish.remains<5

and potion2,if=target.health.pct<35

regal agate Nov 22, 2017, 9:08 PM

#

there are 2 potion use conditions

#

1 on pull and the condition you linked

#

you can change the condition and test around if you want

abstract viper Nov 22, 2017, 9:09 PM

#

i see, will work it

lofty kiln Nov 22, 2017, 9:09 PM

#

You can't really mess with the first potion

#

If you don't use it before combat, it's gone

abstract viper Nov 22, 2017, 9:09 PM

#

the first potion isnt an issue though

lofty kiln Nov 22, 2017, 9:09 PM

#

Oh, you mean two actions

#

rather than which potion

abstract viper Nov 22, 2017, 9:09 PM

#

yes

#

currently the apl forces potion use on 2nd vanish vendetta cd

#

which is off execute

#

i need to try to add a condition of if=target.health.pct<35 to force the other potion use to be used when its most beneficial

lofty kiln Nov 22, 2017, 9:11 PM

#

potion,if=target.health.pct<35&(... previous stuff ...)

abstract viper Nov 22, 2017, 9:13 PM

#

potion,if=target.health.pct<35&(|debuff.vendetta.up&cooldown.vanish.remains<5) like this?

#

and delete the | from (|

#

?

regal agate Nov 22, 2017, 9:14 PM

#

<hp_condition>&<additional conditions>|<enemy dies in 60 secs>

#

you can make a () around it if you want

#

(<hp_condition>&<additional conditions>)|<enemy dies in 60 secs>

boreal patrol Nov 22, 2017, 9:15 PM

#

is this your intention? actions.cds=potion,if=target.time_to_die<=60|(!equipped.zoldycks_family_training_shackles|target.health.pct<30)&(buff.bloodlust.react|debuff.vendetta.up&cooldown.vanish.remains<5)

abstract viper Nov 22, 2017, 9:16 PM

#

pretty much

#

thanks ill try that out

split sorrel Nov 22, 2017, 9:22 PM

#

😉

willow pecan Nov 22, 2017, 9:24 PM

#

i remember i tried doing something similar like half a year ago
didn't show as dps increase

abstract viper Nov 22, 2017, 9:24 PM

#

interesting

#

i can think of no reason why it shouldnt be though

surreal garden Nov 22, 2017, 9:31 PM

#

might not get the full minute of use in execute

abstract viper Nov 22, 2017, 9:32 PM

#

thats why i want to force it to manually be a minute

#

and within execute

split sorrel Nov 22, 2017, 9:33 PM

#

then just time_to_die<=60

#

with the or

#

will do the trick

#

so either start a burst + the rest in exec

#

or whenever it's the last time to use it

merry pike Nov 23, 2017, 2:41 AM

#

dear good friend @floral acorn i am a 🤤 and i need updated crucible strings or else i am useless dumb boy

floral acorn Nov 23, 2017, 3:39 AM

#

@merry pike will do closer to weekend when things settle down more

subtle wigeon Nov 23, 2017, 3:41 AM

#

do we have the T21 sims now?

merry pike Nov 23, 2017, 3:42 AM

#

ty love u!

sullen oasis Nov 24, 2017, 12:23 AM

#

@idle sage https://images-ext-2.discordapp.net/external/4GwYmu_uDZksFeGqaz3_upuYzVV-na55TkmU2ECuE-0/https/cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/324358591605768202/382794997243707393/4c0a0ba6a5d06d4d0ca2801406320ab1-png.png?width=440&height=448

#

compared to t20

hard quest Nov 24, 2017, 12:25 AM

#

thats just the differences after the hotfixes a couple days ago

sullen oasis Nov 24, 2017, 12:26 AM

#

yea, right mb

willow pecan Nov 24, 2017, 12:41 AM

#

i'm bothered by the specs in the middle having decimal points for no raisin

sullen oasis Nov 24, 2017, 1:06 AM

#

my guildie made that chart

#

I guess hes not an expert at ms excel

light void Nov 24, 2017, 7:02 AM

#

@split sorrel sorry if that question already got asked, but on what ilvl are the t20 pieces of your current sim?

#

I mean, it doesnt seem too worthy to go with 2p 4p for st anyways

#

for sub that is

split sorrel Nov 24, 2017, 7:03 AM

#

it's ALWAYS base item level

#

depending on the difficulty

#

this is the n°1 rule in simc basically

#

avoid using wf/tf gear for "default profile"

#

the only tricky part is

#

t21h is t21 heroic with t20 mythic

#

in fact, if something isn't specified, then it's mythic version

light void Nov 24, 2017, 7:07 AM

#

so it might be worth considering you got high tf

#

mh

split sorrel Nov 24, 2017, 7:07 AM

#

yes.

#

as always, the best personalized answer we can give is "sim it"

#

the search space is too big to account for any tf/socket combinations

#

so we just use the "base items"

#

which already highlight the trends

#

then tf/socket emphasize those trends

light void Nov 24, 2017, 7:09 AM

#

ye, just always prefered using the current tier, as most people probably. 😄 but seems like that might not be the case. we gonna see.

what do you think of the current nerf to tiers? I feel like that could indicate some basic-spec buffs

#

as I otherwise dont see a reason to nerf tiers of not well performing specs

#

pointing at the retune of the critchance (sin)

#

and earlier 4p sub nerf

split sorrel Nov 24, 2017, 7:10 AM

#

tier balance is always done in regards to previous tier

#

not in regard to how the spec performs itself

#

so if adjustements there will be (dps scaling isn't the same for every spec) they'll probably be on the spec aura

#

they does that for a while now

#

and it's easy to implement in simc ^_^ (it's automatic)

light void Nov 24, 2017, 7:14 AM

#

wouldnt that be somewhat strange aswell? I've heard some people stating t21 is worse than t20 boni-wise (not tested myself tho)

ye I mostly expect aura-tuning aswell

white plaza Nov 24, 2017, 1:24 PM

#

Hello. New to PvE so never simmed before. I have to ask, I want to know what stat I have to much off ( lets say haste), where can I see that when I sim my character using raidbots?

maiden cargo Nov 24, 2017, 1:25 PM

#

You do stats scaling

#

it gives you weights

#

the lower the weight the worse the stat is for you

white plaza Nov 24, 2017, 1:26 PM

#

Playing sub atm and wondering how much of mastery I should have, how much versa etc etc

#

Atm I have 36%crit,4% haste,106% mastery,15% versa

#

Baaaad legendaries... Sentinel boots and feint legs

maiden cargo Nov 24, 2017, 1:28 PM

#

!simc

steel zealotBOT Nov 24, 2017, 1:28 PM

#

How to sim yourself - guide: https://goo.gl/YACUkz

Download simulationcraft: https://simulationcraft.org/
Or use Raidbots: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot

dense mountain Nov 24, 2017, 8:43 PM

#

suggestion on simc action list priority for outlaw dfa. its the way i use it and play it. outside of COTDB, SS should go up to 6 cp with DfA talent. with dfa talent it should not be used on enrgy starvation. it should be used on CD. also oportunity proc should be used all the time to keep up t20 crit bonus. this work well with 40 crit-20 haste-33master-16versa. i would like you advice to know if its giving better result. is is at least giving me better results.

torn dome Nov 24, 2017, 9:10 PM

#

Forcing 6cp dfa is a loss

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Using dfa while capping energy is a loss

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Keeping up tier bonus is a loss too due to overflow

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@dense mountain

dense mountain Nov 24, 2017, 9:25 PM

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hmm

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📎 unknown.png

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📎 unknown.png

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are u sure

torn dome Nov 24, 2017, 9:28 PM

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I trust sim

dense mountain Nov 24, 2017, 9:30 PM

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unfortunaly i would not know how to modify that prio so i cant realy see

abstract viper Nov 24, 2017, 9:31 PM

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i dont think weak has any incentive to mislead people here though

torn dome Nov 24, 2017, 9:32 PM

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Was .06% loss

zinc pecan Nov 24, 2017, 9:32 PM

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hes racing in 2 weeks

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he just wants to bait other rogues

dense mountain Nov 24, 2017, 9:32 PM

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cool. in patchwork right?

zinc pecan Nov 24, 2017, 9:32 PM

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dfa outlaw rising #believe

torn dome Nov 24, 2017, 9:33 PM

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In st ye

dense mountain Nov 24, 2017, 9:33 PM

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i"m using dfa since february

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2-3 target usaly a good deal

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thanks Weak 😃

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or add waves

verbal latch Nov 24, 2017, 10:25 PM

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I wouldn't really worry about 6cp dfa 100% of time. As long it's 5cp, you should be good. I would also recommend trying to weave BtE to try maximize RT damage. BtE and DFA is like what, 20s cd?

dense mountain Nov 24, 2017, 10:47 PM

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thx gotta do

gleaming valley Nov 25, 2017, 12:23 AM

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Could we have the same page as T21 Sub dfa relic & trinkets simulations on http://tc.ravenholdt.net/ for the build number 3 of this https://gyazo.com/3ff098f5ac0a4d9ea60e55fb76aaabbe ? Would be greatly appreciated since we are likely to use this build on next progress

Gyazo

copper condor Nov 25, 2017, 12:45 AM

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Is that with dfa build? I'd assume so with it simming higher.

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Really suprised that 4p t21 would sim so high, seemed pretty bad.

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That and ditching shoulders seeming better.

gleaming valley Nov 25, 2017, 12:47 AM

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Shoulders brings an important burst on demand ability, also with the build being versatile for both aoe and single target whereas the 1st build seem too single target oriented + relies heavily on melee uptime.

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And rogues usually have to lose melee for soaking mechanics etc

feral crystal Nov 25, 2017, 1:41 AM

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That's why I tend to prefer gutripper relics. More versatile :)

amber locust Nov 25, 2017, 1:51 AM

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@SunL#2607

fair willow Nov 25, 2017, 3:49 AM

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why the Golganneth's Vitality second effect in simc not working?

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the Aman'Thul's Vision second effect is not working too

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who can teach me ues the simc ?i want test the Pantheon Trinkets.

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@floral acorn

merry cloud Nov 25, 2017, 5:37 AM

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If you are alone there is nothing to proc empowered version for you. There is a line that can add proxy users. I believe raidbots have that setting too

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By default there are 0 proxy

split sorrel Nov 25, 2017, 11:42 AM

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Since it has been a subject here few days ago, I received the cpu =)
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/321995036193456149/383920964041179137/IMG_20171125_110443.jpg

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It'll open up a lot of possibilities for sims results

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So besides quicker update, it let also the possibility to add new kind of sims like 4d plots & multi-fightstyle sims

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for a quick comparison, running mistress fightstyle for T21 with combinator was taking almost 24hrs for all specs

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now it should be down to 4-6hrs

proven sparrow Nov 25, 2017, 11:45 AM

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Damn thats nice

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I've looked through some sub things and found that the gloves arent being used as well as they should a lot of the time

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Like in this picture it uses symbols at 5 CP (with gloves) and then it does a backstab

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http://piclair.com/data/ocdoi.jpg

maiden cargo Nov 25, 2017, 11:50 AM

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Nice one Aethys damn

full kindle Nov 25, 2017, 11:53 AM

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Gz

boreal patrol Nov 25, 2017, 12:04 PM

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@SunL#2607 yes, i'd like to wait for more last minute changes but we definitely plan to release relic/trinket sims for multiple builds (at least 2ring and mantle+hands, probably bracers as well)

feral crystal Nov 25, 2017, 12:58 PM

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I wish I could afford to upgrade the pc lol

gleaming valley Nov 25, 2017, 4:06 PM

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@boreal patrol Thank you very much for your answer. I'll stay tuned 😃

fleet yacht Nov 25, 2017, 5:16 PM

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Do you think you will be able to add a bis stat sim on the site for the strongers build ? would be awesome 😃

floral acorn Nov 25, 2017, 5:57 PM

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stat weights depend too much on gear

noble osprey Nov 25, 2017, 6:52 PM

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@proven sparrow that is busted AF

covert jacinth Nov 25, 2017, 9:26 PM

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what crucible traits are used for the crucible ring sims? triple torment?

proven sparrow Nov 25, 2017, 9:28 PM

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Yes

plucky mural Nov 25, 2017, 10:05 PM

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@regal agate

These overrides dont seem to work in the Raidbots advanced window. Is this confirmed?

set_bonus=Tier20_2pc=0
set_bonus=Tier20_4pc=0
etc

regal agate Nov 25, 2017, 10:05 PM

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they work fine

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i did simulations with it 😉

plucky mural Nov 25, 2017, 10:06 PM

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k. ill mess with something

regal agate Nov 25, 2017, 10:06 PM

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📎 image.png

plucky mural Nov 25, 2017, 10:07 PM

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keeps throwing error here.

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📎 unknown.png

lofty kiln Nov 25, 2017, 10:08 PM

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Try to put it near the bottom

plucky mural Nov 25, 2017, 10:08 PM

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i had the Tier20=0 as well.

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k

lofty kiln Nov 25, 2017, 10:08 PM

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Not sure if it's case sensitive as well

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normally all lowercase letters

plucky mural Nov 25, 2017, 10:09 PM

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i took it from the pins.

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but ill try at the bottom

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worked.

lofty kiln Nov 25, 2017, 10:09 PM

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Mhm

plucky mural Nov 25, 2017, 10:09 PM

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thasnks

lofty kiln Nov 25, 2017, 10:09 PM

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Cool

gleaming valley Nov 25, 2017, 10:19 PM

#

Hello again ! Can anyone help me figure out what does this line mean in the rogue sub dfa build : actions.precombat+=/variable,name=shd_fractional,value=1.725+0.725*talent.enveloping_shadows.enabled

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https://gyazo.com/cabd8fb63e8f32ed0221db63e1396ff3

Gyazo

regal agate Nov 25, 2017, 10:21 PM

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its a definition of a value that is used later in the apl

gleaming valley Nov 25, 2017, 10:22 PM

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So it's just a value you use to make some kind of calculation later on ?

regal agate Nov 25, 2017, 10:22 PM

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the name is shd_fractional and the value is 1.725 and +0.725 is added if enveloping shadow is talented

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yes its a value definition basically

gleaming valley Nov 25, 2017, 10:23 PM

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When I first read it I thought "Hey why isn't this value at 1.5 and +1 if es is talented since it corresponds to the speed you regain your danse

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Idk how to explain but you see what I mean ?

regal agate Nov 25, 2017, 10:24 PM

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you can change it and look at results

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😉

gleaming valley Nov 25, 2017, 10:25 PM

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I know I can and I'll take time understanding everything I just need a little help on this, is it natural that its value is a little bit different? It isn't used to simulate danse speed recovery?

regal agate Nov 25, 2017, 10:27 PM

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the value is used in later conditions

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this just reduces the complexity of the condition as you use the value instead of the whole condition

gleaming valley Nov 25, 2017, 10:28 PM

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I think I see

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You mean you dertermined this value

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And replaced the sort of "If you'll cap two danse before using a next dfa you should use danse" condition into

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something that uses this value

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is that it?

regal agate Nov 25, 2017, 10:29 PM

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e.g.
actions.stealth_cds+=/shadow_dance,if=charges_fractional>=variable.shd_fractional|target.time_to_die<cooldown.symbols_of_death.remains
would else look like this:
actions.stealth_cds+=/shadow_dance,if=1.725+0.725*talent.enveloping_shadows.enabled>=variable.shd_fractional|target.time_to_die<cooldown.symbols_of_death.remains

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the condition just checks how the progress of the cooldown is

gleaming valley Nov 25, 2017, 10:30 PM

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But

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https://gyazo.com/e80afb1f99a9dbab29ae3f908fcf642d

Gyazo

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I don't see why it's 1.725 instead of 1.5

regal agate Nov 25, 2017, 10:31 PM

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this has nothing to do with deepening shadows

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its for shadow dance

gleaming valley Nov 25, 2017, 10:31 PM

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Ok ok I had the wrong PoV the whole time so it was hard to understand

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thank you

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and well done with the apl btw

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Oh btw, do you know where i could find profile used for https://gyazo.com/bb67467aa67712fd6126c89dd3e630ff build #3

Gyazo

regal agate Nov 25, 2017, 10:34 PM

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thanks

gleaming valley Nov 25, 2017, 10:34 PM

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I'd like to do some work on it

regal agate Nov 25, 2017, 10:35 PM

#

📎 image.png

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its created with combinator

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https://github.com/Ravenholdt-TC/SimcScripts
for the profiles: https://github.com/Ravenholdt-TC/SimcScripts/tree/master/profiles/Combinator/Rogue

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pieces are switched in for the combination accordingly

gleaming valley Nov 25, 2017, 10:37 PM

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Hmmm I see

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I guess I'll have to make my own then ^^

regal agate Nov 25, 2017, 10:38 PM

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you can just use the default t21 profile

gleaming valley Nov 25, 2017, 10:38 PM

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Problem is that they use build #1

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which is very specific relic wise/ crucible with

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more builder oriented

regal agate Nov 25, 2017, 10:38 PM

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i think all combinations use the same nc/relic traits

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so only gear is switched

gleaming valley Nov 25, 2017, 10:39 PM

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Oh so you mean profile 3 didn't have gutrippers instead of weakpoints ?

regal agate Nov 25, 2017, 10:39 PM

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no

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its worse then es/wp

gleaming valley Nov 25, 2017, 10:40 PM

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Aethys fixed a bug where dfa's evi dmg was underestimated

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a 1.5 factor was missing 50% of the time

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it was 4 days ago

regal agate Nov 25, 2017, 10:40 PM

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the bug was not on every dfa

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it was only "some few times"

gleaming valley Nov 25, 2017, 10:42 PM

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I told him about the bug and he said it was occuring about 50% of the time

regal agate Nov 25, 2017, 10:42 PM

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oh 50% seems high

gleaming valley Nov 25, 2017, 10:43 PM

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I mean I didn't know there was THIS bug I just felt like dfa's dmg where underestimated

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and he did some research and found it

regal agate Nov 25, 2017, 10:44 PM

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ye we had a discussion about the damage formula. neverless the reason GR is bad is due to diffrent stat distributions

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this is the ring build but in general the combinations are more crit heavy:

📎 image.png

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tho feel free to just put in diffrent gear pieces/traits to find a stronger one

gleaming valley Nov 25, 2017, 10:47 PM

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Was about to do that ! I'll keep you up on the results if I find something interesting

regal agate Nov 25, 2017, 10:52 PM

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this are the t21 profile simulation with wp + gr
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5ga6CLY1d3HdU2bRR5TwmC/simc

📎 image.png

Raidbots

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this with gr + es (same relic itemlvl):
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eoBHRYuDPDU8zmmx9Pyqoq/simc

📎 image.png

Raidbots

gleaming valley Nov 25, 2017, 10:55 PM

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Ye but I think it's worse bc of the stat distribution

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Stat distribution valuates crit above mastery

regal agate Nov 25, 2017, 10:56 PM

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yes we changed that bc. our current stat distribution/preference was weaker (crit heavy is stronger)

orchid bramble Nov 25, 2017, 10:59 PM

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I find this annoying because on 2 targets + suddenly relics are completly uselss

gleaming valley Nov 25, 2017, 11:01 PM

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This is why I've been working on build #3, I think this is most likely the one we are gonna use on next progress since it's so versatile

regal agate Nov 25, 2017, 11:01 PM

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2p + 2p is likey to be the go-to for progression

orchid bramble Nov 25, 2017, 11:01 PM

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Yeah

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I'm not even awarding myself more then 2 pieces proly

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2+2 is like 0.65% behind 4pT21 , so there is no way its useable before I can get 4 mythic pieces.

regal agate Nov 25, 2017, 11:05 PM

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the simulations wont represent your personal case

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you might have acess to higher t20 pieces hence you may want to stick with t20 2p/4p longer

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thats where raidbots come in handy 😉

split sorrel Nov 26, 2017, 5:16 AM

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Well for the DfA bug, it could be at worse be 50%

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It's a gaussian and then it's related to simc tick time

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So hard to give a %

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For Combinator, maybe we should add more kind of overrides

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Although, not sure it's realistic to have all BiS relics for every build so 🤷

knotty oriole Nov 26, 2017, 5:24 AM

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T21 4pc only simming like 3k below 2pc4pc now seems like? Seems pretty much down to if you had TF pieces or not I guess?

split sorrel Nov 26, 2017, 5:40 AM

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Yes

knotty oriole Nov 26, 2017, 5:40 AM

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Lucky me with my 0% WF rate on tier pieces in ToS 😄

split sorrel Nov 26, 2017, 5:40 AM

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And ur relics/crucible and the fight

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And ur trinkets

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Well everything in fact :P

knotty oriole Nov 26, 2017, 5:41 AM

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I do think it is a bit strange to run all the supplemental pages with the "oddball" setup 2pc4pc with double rings or whatever, even though "standard" 4pc shoulders/gloves is so close and probably more what a lot of people will use. But not sure what major impact it has on the results of things.

split sorrel Nov 26, 2017, 5:42 AM

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Hence why you shouldn't copy/paste any theorical result but rather see a tendency and check if it's confirmed for you then adapt based on that.

#

Everything is always WIP and subject to Blizz balance aswell as new findings on our end

knotty oriole Nov 26, 2017, 5:43 AM

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Yeah of course

split sorrel Nov 26, 2017, 5:43 AM

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That's why there is everything

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Our own script is also WIP

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New features comes whenever we face new issues

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Or get time to implements ideas

#

With BfA being the next raid tier, we also rather focus on things that will remains

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And we are happy that tier and leggos are gone and just replaced by some sort of 3 leggos

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Well at least, I am happy :P

knotty oriole Nov 26, 2017, 5:49 AM

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Haha

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Yeah, it certainly makes things more straightforward, although the item "trees" for those 3 slots could open up a whole bag of worms lol

#

Depending on how much variation they have between the different options and such

split sorrel Nov 26, 2017, 5:50 AM

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Kinda ArtifactPath

#

but the tree is rather small

#

I already have the code to explore any artifact path, will just have to port in Ruby and adapt it to BfA thing

#

for reference, Assassination paths from rank 1 to 34 was representing more than 40k combinations

#

(which at this point was way beyond simc capacity, nowadays we do about the same in combinator tho)

knotty oriole Nov 26, 2017, 5:54 AM

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At least those slots won't TF lol

split sorrel Nov 26, 2017, 5:54 AM

#

we will still have to run heroic vs mythic I guess

#

but considering it's not RnG

knotty oriole Nov 26, 2017, 5:54 AM

#

yeah

split sorrel Nov 26, 2017, 5:54 AM

#

it will just be to see "what's the % increase"

knotty oriole Nov 26, 2017, 5:55 AM

#

Return of real "BiS lists" though heh

split sorrel Nov 26, 2017, 5:55 AM

#

guess I'll generalize this computation for every specs in the game, so everyone will have the resource for his raid leader ^_^

maiden cargo Nov 26, 2017, 6:10 AM

#

Hey, how can I do a sim like this ?

📎 vdg-300x160.png

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(I know how to copy, just about traits)

maiden cargo Nov 26, 2017, 6:35 AM

#

As in, should I just put 3 identical T2?

regal agate Nov 26, 2017, 9:37 AM

#

@maiden cargo the copy statements are pinned in #subtlety , you can add the other traits to the string as well if you need them

maiden cargo Nov 26, 2017, 11:03 AM

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Yes but do I need to sim 3x (X)T2

regal agate Nov 26, 2017, 11:28 AM

#

its already 3x

proven sparrow Nov 26, 2017, 1:06 PM

#

So boys. Can anybody help me with how simc handles death from above when dark shadows is specced? I cant seem to find where you can change the conditions for it

#

Context for this is that i believe simc doesnt handle t20 4p+t21 2p optimally since it misses out on symbols cdr by a couple seconds (avg interval between them is around 22.5 when it should be closer to 20.5)

regal agate Nov 26, 2017, 1:09 PM

#

it delays symbols for dfa

#

you can just look at a report and look what condition trigger

📎 image.png

#

and yes there is the possibility to handle it diffrently. but that requires more work

#

e.g. you could change it to delay 2nd symbols use and prepere/align symbols + dfa every time after

proven sparrow Nov 26, 2017, 1:12 PM

#

But in theory, if both of them have 20 seconds cd they should always be used together every 20 seconds. Not every 22.5 seconds

regal agate Nov 26, 2017, 1:12 PM

#

well

#

you need to delay it at least 1 time

#

in/after the opener

#

but could possibly line it up after that

#

this does not necessarily mean its stronger, as it likely requires you to handle dfa worse. e.g. prepere for dfa what means you lose ressources and casts (energy, cp and the loss on combo builder/finisher/shd cdr resulting from that)

#

tho feel free to improve the conditions for it, i did only some simple implementation for it that was worse then the current condition

proven sparrow Nov 26, 2017, 1:44 PM

#

Oh well, yeah i couldnt get it to be a gain either.

#

But for what its worth, using symbols without any conditions seemed to be a gain for mfd. A couple thousand using the standard profile but close to 20k when using t20 4p+t21 2p

regal agate Nov 26, 2017, 1:48 PM

#

i thought it already does

#

intressting

proven sparrow Nov 26, 2017, 1:48 PM

#

actions.cds+=/symbols_of_death,if=!talent.death_from_above.enabled&((time>10&energy.deficit>=40-stealthed.all*30)|(time<10&dot.nightblade.ticking)) Is the standard line yeah?
Changing it to actions.cds+=/symbols_of_death,if=!talent.death_from_above.enabled yielded those gains. Its probably primarly due to getting the increased cdr in the opener i think

manic reef Nov 26, 2017, 1:51 PM

#

Hey guys are there any good places to look up set bonuses, which to go for in each spec?

proven sparrow Nov 26, 2017, 1:51 PM

#

@manic reef http://tc.ravenholdt.net/

manic reef Nov 26, 2017, 1:52 PM

#

awesome Eleem, tyvm

regal agate Nov 26, 2017, 2:16 PM

#

i run a simulation, it does not seem to come from the opener rather from delays on symbols later:
report: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9iHvDDHK6FcRVucBjUHZhz/simc

📎 image.png

Raidbots

#

funny enough everyone who read my guide would play it right:

📎 image.png

proven sparrow Nov 26, 2017, 2:17 PM

#

Think you accidently tagged the other guy instead of me 😉

regal agate Nov 26, 2017, 2:17 PM

#

fixed^^

#

the sim is with t21 dfa profile (so t20 2p + t21 4p)

proven sparrow Nov 26, 2017, 2:20 PM

#

Yeah, the gain was larger with t20 4p+t21 2p.

#

Unlikely to change anything in terms of best setups, but hey

regal agate Nov 26, 2017, 2:22 PM

#

you can create an issue for it on the tc site, else i can do it

proven sparrow Nov 26, 2017, 2:23 PM

#

Im unsure how to do it. So you can go ahead 😉

ashen crater Nov 26, 2017, 4:36 PM

#

Would it be more useful to have the two sub profiles be gloomblade (with rings) and the mantle hands build. Instead of the dfa and mfd builds? I'm not sure how many people look at the mfd results anymore considering how far ahead the dfa builds are.

regal agate Nov 26, 2017, 4:37 PM

#

well mfd is fairly behind even with the changes its 2-4% behind dfa builds

#

mfd was pre fix of the dfa bug quite compatitive

ashen crater Nov 26, 2017, 4:40 PM

#

Another option could be to add a third profile, but that adds to run time.

boreal patrol Nov 26, 2017, 4:42 PM

#

simc default profiles kinda are best simming profiles with unforged gear, the reason we have exsg/snd/non-dfa is because those are different playstyles

#

for personalization, this is why we always put our simyoself disclaimer and why raidbots exists 😉

ashen crater Nov 26, 2017, 4:44 PM

#

True their isn't much play style difference between gloomblade and master of subtlety, but the relic and trinket results would be more materially different than between the current 2 profiles possibly.

boreal patrol Nov 26, 2017, 4:45 PM

#

sure, as i said we plan to release more of those

ashen crater Nov 26, 2017, 4:45 PM

#

Cool

novel lava Nov 26, 2017, 4:47 PM

#

I personally think it’s a little misleading to have all the relic sims for the non mantle build, when you would only play the gloomblade stuff on pure patchwerk and even there it’s less than 0.1% ahead on a 5 minute fight. Given a shorter fight length, or any shuriken storm opportunity, mantle gloves is going to be the preferred way to play (apart from in extended aoe where you’d consider bracers/vigor instead of gloves)

#

it presents data in a way that could mislead people into thinking it’s the only, and best, way to play the tier when it isn’t the case.

boreal patrol Nov 26, 2017, 4:51 PM

#

that holds true for any build we'd feature in a default profile

novel lava Nov 26, 2017, 4:53 PM

#

perhaps, but gearing with and without mantle is very different