I take it you still don't have that sample sequence, right?
#tc-research
strong gorge
snow thorn
negative. ill keep trying to recreate it
strong gorge
Sure you didn't just reread the lines? ^^
snow thorn
i dont think so lol but its possible. been a long week heh
strong gorge
Do you run anything except standard talents, or legendaries or sets?
snow thorn
nah, the only thing i can think of is if it managed to pull off the ss>evis>ss in under 2 sec
sorry, 2 sec after activating SoD
strong gorge
Simc has a little more than 1s delay between actions
So that should really be impossible
snow thorn
exactly
strong gorge
Under sim settings, what "skill" do you sim with? Elite?
As in "how many mistakes is the actor allowed to do"
snow thorn
oh. it was ran via raidbots
strong gorge
ah, ok
snow thorn
but yeah ive ran it like 10 times now and keep getting ss evis ss ss dfa. so who knows.
strong gorge
Made 10 runs myself and have not seen anything else
cerulean junco
you cant sim t21 yet, right?
strong gorge
Mh well weird if what you said is accurate
I think @boreal patrol implementated some rudimentary t21 sets for outlaw a while back, check with him
torn dome
Bit late on the party again but it simply followed the 5+ cp rule on the evi
First evi was gloves yes.
Second evi just had a sht give 5 cps so again 5
So finish instead evi
And with vanish itll ss if youre below 5. Bug allows 2 ss so it all works just as it should
@snow thorn
snow thorn
oh ok, a +5 sht thats pretty damn lucky lol
torn dome
What I meant was that sht proc gave 2 cp the same global the ss gave 3
So ss to 6
Evi to 0
Ss to 5
Evi to 0
snow thorn
there was no gloves buff when casting the second SS
snow thorn
so how can the ss give 3 cp
snow thorn
oh shit i completely forgot about SB LOL
boreal patrol
t21 should be implemented if you set ptr=1
strong gorge
(be mindful that with tier, rotations may very well change and current apls don't reflect that)
manic pulsar
@gray flume I would need specific examples to respond to you. Can't say much without seeing the sims. Keep in mind when you compare amr to SimC you have to turn off the vanish bug in simc.
iron elk
there is a way in simcraft to set specter of betrayal to not stack?
full kindle
I think you have a target.move event
But last time i talked about it ppl wasn't sure, maybe start searching here
torn dome
You can just use line to disable sob double damage
iron elk
how? something like legion.specter_of_betrayal_something?
torn dome
Id have to dig from smm discord when I get home
iron elk
found in the code
legion.specter_of_betrayal_overlap=0
ty anyway ๐
torn dome
:ok_hand:
pseudo quarry
as WM has no interaction with DFA in 7.3, will it be the better tier 1 talent? does simcraft have this change implenemted?
regal agate
it looks like the initial hit of wm will be removed from the table of spells that can proc wm
its not inplemented yet as we cant be sure before 7.3 is live and we are able to test
pseudo quarry
i see. thanks fuu
regal agate
you can run a simulation with bugs disabled to compare the talents (it will disable vanish bug as well but will come close to a fair comparison if both sims where run with bugs dissabled)
keen plank
What is the most realistic fightstyle for "overall" in ToS :)? Any single/cleave style?
tough hornet
you shouldn't try to run 1 gearset for every fight
that's poor optimization
instead do patchwerk for ST fights and beastlord for the aoe fights
floral basin
@tough hornet what is the talent setup for beastlord? mot familiar with that
tough hornet
I mean depends on the boss
keen plank
If i go patchwerk with dfa vers seems to sim best ๐
tough hornet
it probably is for ST
but mastery is only a tiny bit behind and far better aoe
that's why you stack mastery gems and enchant anyway
keen plank
Yeah
But home atm check with other legs, (got all), but this seems right?
Not home*
The settings i mean :)
Wtf, cant spell it seems :p not home at the moment to compare with other legs* ๐
keen plank
Another thing, what style would you pref for mythic+?
tough hornet
i dont think there is a good default settings for raidbots that is good for mythic+
at least, totally accurate
stuff like beastlord could work, definitly better than patchwerk
but i use AMR for mythic+ sims usually
because they have a good event profile
i could implement it in simc but im lazy and thats a lot of work
it also depends, are you using two different builds for mythic+ trash and bosses?
because i do
so then you need two profiles
scarlet gale
Does Simcraft 725-02 take into account the sub bracers nerf? The bracers sim way higher than gloves for me, as in 1330K with gloves and 1380 with bracers. Shoulders are the second legs ofc. I have pretty standard setup gear. I do use 905 CoF. Cheers!
maiden cargo
!trinkets
strong rune
yes, simc has the nerf
gray flume
@manic pulsar Is the vanish bug by itself worth 91.5k dps? I'm actually asking, I don't know the value of it. Just trying to figure out where the difference is coming from.
AMR: 1140081 dps: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/ab6d406659bb486d8765dc54fb4f4f3c
Raidbots (simc): 1231555 dps: https://www.raidbots.com/reports/fitHLbSj9zztZ4icimmt93/index.html
That would be an approximate 8% increase in damage from something I use 2-3 times. But maybe it actually is that high.
As a comparative tool:
My last Goroth kill: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/8aBTnCVRHz4AQdg1#fight=1&type=damage-done&source=15
dps was 1190733.
And I didn't even hit a 90% for my ilvl. I screwed up the opener, Misclicked SStorm twice, and I feel like my NB refreshing is pretty close to garbage right now and I'm trying to improve that. But with all of that said, even simming for the exact fight length still only came up with 1151388. So I'm over the sim by 39k dps. If the sim represents a "perfect" score and I clearly performed sub-optimally (no pun intended, dammit that was unintentional), then I don't understand the result.
tough hornet
you are doing a non patchwerk sim vs a patchwerk sim
gray flume
No, I used Light Movement on raidbots
tough hornet
do training dummy dps with same duration
ah
those can have differening results due to different movement algorithm
gray flume
So movement every 85 seconds, and like everyone else I cloak every other burning, so that seems pretty accurate
gray flume
Hmm. I'll try that then.
Training Dummy for 191 seconds: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/24e74e2e03e346998cde851085b75c21
So perfect and no mechanics to deal with at all: 1204968. So I only underperformed by 14.2k dps? When I did have to sprint a short distance away and SStep back in? And again....not perfect button pushing.... even then that doesn't seem reasonable.
tough hornet
manic pulsar
1245002 dps
tough hornet
you could have done like 1.5m and thats within the bounds of the simulation
gray flume
Ahh. Okay, that makes much better sense then.
Shit, I should have noticed the buffs. Sorry @manic pulsar
manic pulsar
for that short a fight, training dummy is fine, since we don't sim cloak of shadows allowing you to not run out on goroth script
gray flume
Oh ok
manic pulsar
it's "on the list" to add
gray flume
So then this is what I was asking the other day:
SimC: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/r8Zz4A2zGcUMQZoMspdQG3
AMR: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/dacc79f51b3d4070bac491a85f83e06a
Top Gear as Equipped prefers 4-pc T20 by almost 60k dps
AMR: prefers 2-pc + 2-pc but sims at 1,208196
Did I mess that up somehow?
On that one, unless I screwed it up, AMR simmed the 2 + 2 about 55.6k lower than SimC did
I think I saw you mention something about making changes to how T-20 was valued, but I wasn't sure if that was completed yet.
manic pulsar
@gray flume If you can get me your addon export from the addon I can take a look at why it would suggest that setup.
gray flume
Can I just DM that to you to not flood the channel with jibberish?
fossil wadi
hey guys
boots simming higher to me then bracers. I'm sub, second leggo is shoulders. I was wandering if that's correct or something is wrong ๐
proper cairn
maybe you have better offpiece in wrist slot, happens to me as sin as well crown above bracers on ST
gray flume
@fossil wadi Could also be fight length. Depending on what relics you have, if boots are the only thing giving you energy return over a longer fight, the sims seem to like that.
regal agate
@Tethyson#4425 you can use bug=0 to dissable the vanish bug
manic pulsar
@gray flume - Using your export from the addon I see these two simulation results:
BiB with 2pc t19, t20 - 1169.2k DPS, http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/b10c4ebf72d24685bb06440b1d7ff3e1
Keep 4pc - 1152.8k DPS, http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/2cddf68816fb46318e07a8ca6b448d85
The gearing strategies are all based off of the Goroth script, which requires you to move out of range of the boss at times. The value of the 2pc t19 goes up in that situation compared to a training dummy. If you do the exact same comparison on a training dummy fight, the set with the 4pc sims higher.
I know in-game lots of times people can get near 100% uptime on a Goroth fight, but on pretty much all the other fights you end up without 100% uptime on the boss, so I'd say you'll do pretty well with the recommended set in general.
regal agate
@manic pulsar does the goroth script adjust to rogue and make the frequence of downtime happen less?
manic pulsar
no, it's on my list to implement a way to allow abilities like cloak of shadows to bypass a mechanic
I think it's an interesting result though, since the number of times you move out in the script is pretty minimal, and that's enough to flip the value of 4pc vs 2pc/2pc
regal agate
thats intressting
manic pulsar
makes sense, from my experience - the longer nightblade is a great QoL improvement on so many fights
regal agate
it impacts your downtime damage
becouse you cant ensure that those downtimes happen in a optimal way
still wounder why a fight thats so close to patchwork assumes t19 2p > t20 4p
manic pulsar
yeah, and you end up with less awkward moments where you have to either sit on combo points before you run out to nightblade when you come back, or else be building combo on a target with no nightblade
the default script is 270 seconds, so you'd have to run out for pillars like... 3 times i think?
regal agate
the result still seems off given the 4p bonus is worth ~8% dps while t19 2p is ~4, assuming patchwork (not counting in itemlvl, its even higher with those likely)
but thats only theoretical i would need to test it in simc with a low downtime fight
manic pulsar
well, this result could also have a lot to do with this person's particular items, and what item level version of the items he has
since the doomblade pieces that get swapped in both have mastery
and one of his fanged pieces has a ton of haste
regal agate
yes ofc gear is always an deciding factor
gray flume
I would agree that the T20 stats for helm and back aren't great; but I would have thought the 20-ilvl gap between the items would compensate for that.
I think it's fine that the two tools yield somewhat different results; in this case it seems to be the valuation of the T20 set bonus that's so dramatically different. Like...almost 100k dps different. Granted I'm using mythic T19 vs heroic T20 also.
But also, of the meta is mantle and gloves, you say my items have a lot of haste. But that wouldn't be a unique scenario if everyone also uses mantle/gloves. There's only four remaining tier slots
regal agate
the different result comes from the advancements of the tool not from the situation likely
manic pulsar
@Tethyson If you simulated a training dummy fight on AMR with the 4pc set (your current gear) you get 1207.6k DPS. In SimC with bugs turned off you get 1244.3k DPS. I'm not sure what was going on with that raidbots link you posted before - I just downloaded nightly and imported your character and ran the same set of gear I was testing in AMR.
ashen crater
So I'm NOT using the macro to trigger the unbreakable vanish bug. But according to my logs my Master Assassin's Initiative buffs are lasting about 5.6 seconds. The extra half second is very significant because it gives me enough time to get off a second eviscerate in the window. Anyone else seeing the same? (Here's a log if you want to double check me https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/FcDA27Htj3XZghfz#view=timeline&source=12&type=auras&fight=16) Simcraft seems to only have it lasting 5 seconds and not buffing the second eviscerate if bugs=0.
torn dome
thats how it has worked since mantle was introduced
people just never knew about it
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
ashen crater
so is simcraft wrong then? when run with bug=0?
ashen crater
It gives crit buff to an extra eviscerate during shadow dance window
regal agate
the bug is in simc, bug=0 is forcefully dissabling it
this means you represent another enviroment then in game
ashen crater
oh,
regal agate
sry i cant folow
the bug is supossed to better represent the ingame value, also we use it in our rotation so the simulation is representing the ingame enviroment
torn dome
well only if you manage to do it properly yes
but if you just vanish and auto mantle lasts about that 5.5 seconds
and again this is irrelevant difference for sim purposes
and it has worked like that ever since
only diff with the stopaa is that you get a whole global more
instead of partial global which practically gives you nothing
ashen crater
why only abuse the bug for 1 gcd. Why not keep cancelling autos?
do autos happen with second gcd before you can cancel?
torn dome
cause anything breaks vanish
after .x seconds
and to get back on you claiming you get an additional global
No. you only gain that additional global if you actually wait a whole global before breaking
This can happen without trying
If your autos time so they dont happen during said global
ashen crater
DfA takes more than one global
w/o bug you can only get SS, DFA, SS, SS in
w/ bug you can get SS, DFA, SS, SS, EV in
regal agate
dfa is a special case like i mentioned in my video
ashen crater
so does macro even change anything. It doesn't let you fiit in the last SS does it?
ashen crater
which one are you talking about?
torn dome
your claim of getting random extra global
ashen crater
this is what I'm seeing.
in simc with bug=0 you only get SS, DFA, SS, SS
in game w/o vanish macro you get SS, DFA, SS, SS, EV
What do you get if you do use the macro?
torn dome
in that log of yours your auto broke vanish before you even cast dfa
so dfa doesnt matter at all
ashen crater
*in game w/o vanish macor you get SS, DFA, SS, SS, EV
regal agate
you get 1 additional secound of the mantle buff
torn dome
you could have just shadow striked 6 times and it would have resulted the same
ashen crater
So can you SS, DFA, SS, SS, EV, SS all w/in mantle buff if you use the stop auto attack macro?
regal agate
dfa takes 2 secs
ashen crater
so that's a no then?
regal agate
ss(1)-dfa(2)-ss(4)-ss(5)-evi(6)-ss(7)
the combo takes 7 global cooldowns so thats not possible
ashen crater
What I'm claiming is that w/o using the stop auto attack macro I can fit SS, DFA, SS, SS, EV all in the mantle window, which is 6 gcd. If that's correct then what do you gain by using the macro?
regal agate
you probably use the bug by default
ashen crater
in game?
regal agate
yes
as i commented in my video you dont need a macro for dfa to work
so you get the extendet duration by default
if you dont delay dfa to mutch
ashen crater
even if DFA isn't your first ability after vanish?
regal agate
it depends if your abilities or auto attacks break vanish
if they dont yes
the macro is just to make it usable reliably
tacit galleon
Are the specter sims assuming you always get 2 hits with one dread reflection?
ember palm
also with spectral is must to use sd ?
full kindle
@tacit galleon yes
finite thunder
specter is used with symbols + dance, every 50s (enough time to hit double but not exacly on cd)
dark pond
is there a way to change the simulation to change the talents besides the ones i currently have when i logged off?
tough hornet
http://i.imgur.com/xDXgfY1.png any idea why?
dark pond
no idea
merry cloud
@tough hornet use advanced
tough hornet
rip, i wanted to do a top gear sim with that option
merry cloud
Usual tabs don't allow majority of commands
Can you do top gear without, generate simc string and then add it to advanced?
tough hornet
yeah that works although im not sure if that is enabled for every combo if i just add it to sim settings at the bottom
merry cloud
Depends on how it's built
If that parameter is profile-limited then add it to first one
Top gear is most certainly just bunch of copies so it should transfer to all profiles that way
knotty oriole
I don't believe the Legion options are profile limited. Think it's global afaik.
crisp nebula
]
lament citrus
hey guys, just did some sims and my ST looks like this
anyone else having this kind of scale factors?
regal agate
what seems wrong with it
lament citrus
not wrong but was wodnering since agi is third now
but i guess its such a small margin that it doesnt matter
between top 3 as it looks
torn dome
And?
cerulean junco
are there sims for lightblood potion?
long sapphire
Is anyone able to tell me where a 915 Madness of the Betrayer would rank for Trinkets with all 3 specs?
inland seal
Not rogue related but a friend just faction xfered and is now simming 120k less no gear changed. Went from gnome hunter to Orc.. Any suggestions why?
gaunt gale
Did his armory update properly? Or is he using /simc
inland seal
Simc
tacit galleon
on the relic sims, if a relic sim is shows the trait being worth 10 ilvl. Does that mean relic ilvl (915 -> 925 on the relic)or weapon ilvl (927-> 937on the wep)
tough hornet
relic ilvl
tacit galleon
thanks alot
scarlet lion
is new alchemy stone worth it?
drifting swift
yes
tough hornet
<@&226424944148480000> i would suggest running new TC hub sims with all the bugfixes to vanish and weaponmaster, some interesting talent/legendary combos could pull ahead
regal agate
the sims also dont have all the hands change in so they are already abit outdated
however wm bug need to be inspected abit more (to not make a false implementation) and NC is very soon, its maybe smarter to make a update with NC
boreal patrol
still on vacation until Sep 7 so it will be some time until I can update things
WM+DfA needs to be investigated, Vanish bug needs to be fixed, and I plan to update my Relic scripts for all crucible traits
regal agate
now enjoy your vecation ๐
strong rune
I will remove code related to the vanish big.
*bug
The scripts are all you, though.
split sorrel
Will ran them tomorrow
and remove vanish bug if it's not done yet
for wm I need more informations
boreal patrol
afaik my last issue comment should still be correct?
formal sluice
Question: I've got 915 engine and 935 new alchemy stone. Raidbots sims alchemy stone as higher (by like 7-8k); AMR sims engine as higher (by about 60k). Both say they're updated for 7.3. Anyone know which one is usually more reliable? I'll test on a dummy when I get home but I don't have that available now.
maiden cargo
SimC
finite lodge
Has WM fix been implemented into simc yet?
regal agate
no
regal agate
can you remove vanish bug also, if you have the file open ๐
regal agate
thanks ๐
split sorrel
Everything should be good now, see #tc-updates ๐
lofty kiln
@viral mist You tested the Netherlight Crucible traits, yes?
viral mist
I did, spent quite some time on the PTR
If you want, I could upload my sample data for proc rate, crit rate, and character stat sheet so you can compare your concusions to my own.
lofty kiln
Yeah, would be nice
The pandemic thing... are you sure about that? When I tested this on PTR, it was just refresh to full duration + time until next tick
so it wasn't really pandemic, just a weird refresh
viral mist
I noticed that the duration increased to 19 seconds most of the time when it refreshed.
I guess i didn't think much about it when I saw it, just assumed pandemic
lofty kiln
It always seems to do just 6 ticks after refresh
if it was pandemic, I think you'd see 7 ticks every now and then
viral mist
I might have to double check that. Either way, it serves to increase the value substantially by allowing a higher stack level to be reached under most circumstances
lofty kiln
Well, simc currently implements what I described
If it was true pandemic, it wouldn't really change all that much
but still, for the sake of accuracy
maiden cargo
They're on it.
maiden cargo
sim seems to work again ..
regal agate
yes it now has the wm and vanish bug fix in
finite lodge
what's the usual delay between fix pushes and nightly builds?
regal agate
raidbots updates the tool every night or on special request
finite lodge
cool
regal agate
simc nightly is build every now and then can be some days between
finite lodge
actually it seems they rolled out the fix just a little while ago in response to the changes
but WM is still a downgrade ๐ฆ
regal agate
yes we found the issue and fixed it, raidbots then compiled simc again
finite lodge
I guess WM isn't always an upgrade in ST?
regal agate
its stronger on higher gear lvls
regal agate
*mos is
regal agate
wm becomes the stronger in aoe, like mistress or hoste
finite lodge
yeah
i'm just lazy and dont like switching
but double storms from weaponmaster is nice
i guess i'll start holding on to tomes
rich temple
Late to the party I'm sure, but WM no longer bugs DFA?
finite lodge
is mfd competitive yet or something?
regal agate
dfa came out ahead with the nerfs to bracers
but we should move the discussion to the appropriate channel #subtlety
finite lodge
๐
hard quest
do two on-use trinkets not sim properly? Like specter + vial, seems like it sims way too low for me and vial is doing ~1% dmg
regal agate
yes
2 trinkets trigger an internal cd of 10 secs
the use conditions are not adjusted for that, so this can make them sub optimal
the trinket slot 1 trinket condition will trigger first
hard quest
Hm so one couldnt be used during dance +symbols
regal agate
exactly
you need to adjust the condition of the 2nd trinket
using sth like if=!cooldown.death_from_above.up already brought a win, but there are likely better conditions
daring geode
Will "actions+=/eviscerate,if=combo_points=4" only use eviscerate at 4 points or will it also execute eviscerate at 5?
errant sandal
Is the new alch trink implemented well in simc? Seems to be lack luster
shadow knot
Guys do any of you have a cookie-cutter relic simulation to get results similar to the ones on Ravenholdt website, that I could adapt to my rogue ? I don't have mantle and I'm fairly certain Gutripper is still better than Energetic Stabbing but I'd like to see for myself
shadow knot
ho shit, awesome thanks
lunar trout
Anyone know how to get a string for "of the X" suffix items in SimC? Normally when I can't generate it through Raidbots I can export from game or import someone who has it equipped, but in this case (Empyrial Deep Crown), no one has it yet.
lunar trout
Wowhead seems to only allow me to change the ilvl.
regal agate
you can just add
ilevel=xxx
to the line and adjust the itemlvl
lunar trout
Yeah, I'm not looking to adjust the ilvl. I'm looking to alter the "of the" suffix on the item.
So I can get a 935 Empyrial Deep Crown ok, but I can't specify which variant I want (in this case, "of the Harmonius" which would be a Vers/Mastery 935 helm with a socket ๐คค)
regal agate
oh
easy solution would be to just use another head piece with the attributes you want
lunar trout
Ah, then peg that on, good idea! ๐
regal agate
i am not sure if there is a parameter you might just ask in simminmax discord
clever yew
anyone can help me with simcraft+pawn?
regal agate
late willow
How is this sim going from 0 cps to 6 cps with 1 shadowstrike? without gloves.
and then the next shadowstrike only gives 3 cps
strong rune
got a debug log there? that does seem weird
even a sht proc wouldn't get you the three
late willow
That was from raidbots
regal agate
you are skilled into weaponmaster so that can come from a proc on ss
late willow
Hmm yeah thats what it was. Found out I sim 10k more with Master of Subtlety over weaponmaster. So no more WM ;_;
regal agate
WM is potent on multiple targets ๐ so you can use it there if you want
velvet leaf
hey guys
Anyone knows what the opener should look like as subtlety when you wear legendary gloves + shoulders?
Like when should you use Symbols?
remote dune
So when I compare relics do I compare the ilvl ofthe relic or the +? ilvl right under where it says what type of relic it is?
dire totem
revzbot#5535 go to subchannel and look at the pins
sand hedge
!relics
eternal holly
full kindle
@eternal holly @Akasendo#3075 There is #bot-spam for that please don't write here it's for simulation related stuff as you can see on the name of the chanel
cursive dock
is there a chance sim can give stat weight that also consider melandrus effect?
gaunt gale
like, a weighting for the 10% autoattack damage?
cursive dock
yes, like right now i cannot rely on my statweight anymore becos i equiped the ring
gaunt gale
if you equip an imaginary ring with identical stats, you can take the difference between them to give value I guess?
cursive dock
that is next level....im dumb
gaunt gale
for doing that, use fingerX=made_up_ring,stats=Xhaste_Xmastery
rather than trying to find a ring withidentical stats ๐
cursive dock
dont really understand..nevermin i just look at sim dps now
tough dirge
Opening next weeks netherlight crucible. Does simc support the second row affixes and can we sim them already?
tough hornet
3d row affixes when
inland seal
@quartz path mind if i msg you some questions?
gaunt gale
@tough dirge if nobody answered you, the answer is yes, simc does support them, and the list of 2nd row traits simc IDs is available in #subtlety 's pinned.
open ice
It doesn't seem like you can properly sim having multiple instances of the same NC tier 2 trait though ๐ฆ
lofty kiln
@open ice How are you trying to sim that? It should work correctly.
open ice
@lofty kiln so if I'm wanting to sim like 1 Master of Shadows, 1 Murderous Intent, and 1 Shocklight, I use the lines
copy=MoS_1_MI_1_SL_1,base
crucible=1771:3:1774:3:1777:3
and it sims just fine, but I can't figure out how to sim like... 3x Master of Shadows. Doing 1771:9 gives completely whacky values, and doing 3x 1771:3 just treats it like 1.
open ice
simming 1 of each isn't a problem
open ice
oh; I was under the impression that each level 2 trait had 3 ranks and the 3 represented having that trait maxed for that relic
lofty kiln
Nope, not anymore
It worked that way very early in PTR
but it's just one rank
the only way to get multiple "ranks" is to get it from multiple relics
open ice
Roger, thx
lusty narwhal
is it possible to run raidbots top gear sims "at home" with simulationcraft?
open ice
Is there an easy way to get the 15ilvls from the NC on your weap?
Besides manually just adjusting your relic ilvls to get it to match?
regal agate
higher then itemlvl of your relics
open ice
does simc support higher than 955 relics?
regal agate
idk but try it
open ice
It would help if I didn't keep messing up syntax in other ways
regal agate
i don't think it does
open ice
Looks like it does actually
the question is whether or not 960 is 75 or 76 ilvls ๐ฎ
950 and 955 relics screwed up the regular pattern so I don't now what to think anymore
regal agate
3 relic itemlvl = 1 weapon itemlvl
pulsar canyon
To simulate a fight like mistress or host, u choose hecticaddcleave or some other option ?
full kindle
@pulsar canyon use that
raid_events+=/adds,count=3,first=50,cooldown=999,duration=10,cooldown_stddev=1
raid_events+=/adds,count=3,first=84,cooldown=999,duration=10,cooldown_stddev=1
raid_events+=/adds,count=3,first=180,cooldown=999,duration=10,cooldown_stddev=1
raid_events+=/adds,count=3,first=210,cooldown=999,duration=10,cooldown_stddev=1
raid_events+=/adds,count=3,first=10,cooldown=60,duration=35,cooldown_stddev=1
It's not suported on fight with a lenght below 5m
So don't use it in that case
pulsar canyon
Thanks mate. Where exactly do I paste these lines ? Never manually added a raid event
full kindle
Advenced simulation in raidbot, past that at the end
full kindle
I think it does, I havn't simed with the program since a long time so i can't confirm
But it shoud
pulsar canyon
Okey will give it a shot there as well
quick violet
Hey all, I was just messing with simc for my sub rogue and crit has a higher rating than vers at the moment. Can anyone explain why
Pawn string ( Pawn: v1: "Endarus": Class=Rogue, Spec=Subtlety, Agility=18.30, CritRating=15.74, HasteRating=9.44, MasteryRating=16.26, Versatility=13.99 )
tough hornet
you probably dont have shoulders
heavy mauve
i need help with simC on subt
when it says ssw_refund stealth_treshold and shd_fractional in the simc action bar prefight what does it means?
regal agate
its a variable that is used later
daring geode
Is there a way to tell if SimC is accounting for both talents from Soul of the Shadowblade (Deeper Stragem & Vigor for my scenario)? There doesn't appear to be any indication that vigor is being used.
The talent section only shows Deeper stratagem for the 3rd tier talent, and the energy regen breakdown doesn't specify energy gains from vigor
Well I'm going to assume it's counting Vigor even though it doesn't mention it. It does show my energy hitting a max of 135 during the simmed encounter which would be impossible without the vigor talent so if anyone else had the same question, it's a definite maybe.
agile trench
Is there a guide somewhere for simming NC traits in SimC?
Or I suppose I should start by asking, is there a good way to sim NC traits in SimC?
agile trench
Thanks
neat patrol
Raidbots
Shadowcraft
Hi everyone, I tried raidbots and Shadowcraft and got a lot of differences between both
Which one should I follow ? Raidbots tells me that the reccomended spec is not too far from the best for me
regal agate
you need to ask in #226375547381350400 for their accuracy, they might be not the best tool for talent choices
dim maple
!trinkets
faint lava
Does the current SimC not support Antorus trinkets yet? Just tried most of them on Raidbots and they all perform significantly worse than my current setup, even at 945 ilvl (Heroic base) compared to my live 905 CoF and 895 Specter.
spark bronze
no it doesnt
magic urchin
I understand how simming works etc etc etc but is there an up to date trinket sim list?
magic urchin
thank you
open ice
How quick do we think SimC will get these updates in? http://www.wowhead.com/news=271643/netherlight-crucible-tier-2-trait-tuning-on-ptr
lofty kiln
Tomorrow when it goes live
tough hornet
RIP Master of shadows 2017-2017
tacit galleon
do we already have a crucible guideline?
odd sedge
๐
spring jewel
'
strong willow
I checked the pinned messages but didn't see anything in regards to crucible guidelines
amber bridge
raidbots was updated and supports NC - best bet is to sim it whats best for u
proper cairn
Tuning Changes:
Master of Shadows โ Value reduced to 500.
Murderous Intent โ Value reduced to 1500.
Dark Sorrows โ Proc rate increased by Haste.
Torment the Weak โ Value reduced to 80,000. Damage over Time effect now increased by haste and can crit.
Chaotic Darkness โ Proc rate increased by Haste.
Shadowbind โ Value increased to 200,000. Proc rate increased by haste.
Light Speed โ Value reduced to 500.
Shocklight โ Value reduced to 1500.
Secure in the Light โ Value increased to 135,000. Proc rate increased by haste.
Infusion of Light - Value reduced to 101,000. Proc rate increased by haste.
Light's Embrace โ Value increased to 45,500. Proc rate increased by haste.
Refractive Shell โ Value increased to 300,000. Proc rate increased by haste.
merry pike
torment the weak kreygasm
barren sequoia
is there a priority list for sub rogues?
regal agate
will rerun the sims for the traits later(did, they are pinned in the spec specific channel)
tacit galleon
Hey guys, I got a few questions about simming and sims (i guess this is the right channel^^) . Is the hectic add cleave profile decent, or do you just run 4-5 Bosses sims for aoe? Further the sims regarding artifact weapon traits and the netherlight crucible, are they just for ST? Aaaaand am I reading them correctly, that for the overall sub traits energetic Stabbing is roughly worth 9weapon ilvls?
spiral basin
regal agate
its pinned in the spec channel aswell as t1 & 2 sims
tawny arch
Is there a way to sim a relic that u don't have equiped but have found out its crucible stats?
Also, how would relic ilvl function now. For example a 905 relic with best crucible stat vs a 935 with 5th best stat, both the same relic
regal agate
you can put in the NC traits and relics on raidbots: @tawny arch
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/relic
vagrant quail
@regal agate can you confirm if tormenting the weak stack ?
if 3 relics have this T2 what happen?
lofty kiln
Yep
vagrant quail
some are saing it have the same effect with only 1 relic
80k dmg only 3 stacks
not 3x 80k x 3 stacks
dawn ginkgo
How do i check, wheter flat stats like 1500 crit or the new trait abilities, which scale with haste, are better?
I know that u can sim this with raidbots. But right now i have no haste, because it was always the worst stat.
So there could be a possibility, that i sim more damage with 500 of whatever stat, but would ultimativly gain more with an ability that scalea with haste and haste gear fot higher proc chance. But for the simulation it wouldnt know, that i have haste gear, and when i use haste gear for simulation, the 500 effect gets automaticly better
I hope you guys understand, what im trying to say
fallow wave
Shadowbind โ Value increased to 200,000. Proc rate increased by haste.
how this works on AoE?
lofty kiln
Doesn't scale with number of targets, if that's what you mean
fallow wave
so probably the 500 mastery will be better for aoe
celest lotus
How do I get the "of the ____" ids for the new Obliterum gear?
late willow
Assn's tier 21 seems to be not implemented right. Deadly poison is applying 362 times over a 5 minute fight and its crit is 42.9% and T21 is only giving back 40 energy. It should be at 144.
split sorrel
Behavior changed during previous PTR iteration @late willow
cosmic marlin
!simc
spiral bluff
anybody know how updated the latest Nightly build is? thinking about the crucible traits, itemlevels and such
spiral bluff
cool, ty
rapid tree
My 928 sub rogue is:
Crit 37%
Haste 6%
Mastery 86%
Vers 9%
Stat weights from raidbots are:
Agi
25.49
Crit
24.78
Vers
22.90
Mastery
22.12
Haste
15.27
Pawn is recommending I gem with crit. Seems a bit odd that I would want over 37% crit. I have no shoulders. Should I follow pawn recommendation?
naive ether
!simc
woven pulsar
you should
crit is dmg
and eviscerate is your highest dmg
so yo uwant it to crit as much as possible
rapid tree
Ok, thanks. I thought crit was second lowest stat priority
woven pulsar
it is
rapid tree
my vers is so low too
woven pulsar
but as for gems its nice
rapid tree
isnt 9% vers very low?
rapid tree
alright thanks mate
stable pasture
!relics
gaunt gale
Wrong channel, and check pins in your spec channel
jolly charm
!opener
jolly charm
@everyone everytime i hit simulate i get "simulationcraft has stopped working"
hallow gull
not really rogue related but a question about raidbots. Is it having problems simming more than a 8/8 for a specific trait? I'm trying to do a sim where I have my BiS trait as baseline, and then incrementally add it to each relic from the NC, and as soon as I hit 10/10 or 11/11 the numbers go wonky and i actually end up with it giving me negative dps
something similar happened when i tried to sim too many MA relics as well
I assumed it was some issue with MA giving diminishing returns, but the Clarity talent for mages doesn't have one, its just a flat % every time
proper cairn
no
hallow gull
strange, why does it let me do it for one then?
proper cairn
it's written above or it was, it's not implemented
the check
but as general rule in the game you can't have the same trait twice on a relic
hallow gull
aha that makes sense, guess its not implemented properly like you say because it lets me double up on one relic but freaks out if i do more
proper cairn
yep
hallow gull
makes sense now, thanks
opaque sorrel
Is the vial sims for sub accurate? cuz its showing it to be a 20k downgrade for a 5 ilvl lower eye of command to me
Also to note that my other trinket is specter which puts it on the 10 sec cd for the first use but the rest works fine
opaque sorrel
i just hate using eye on fights like avatar...shit uptime plus cant really switch
but yea 20k is huge might as well grab a alch stone i guess
an
regal agate
just keep in mind that 2 on use trinkets sim lower due to the use condition
opaque sorrel
well yea i just wondered if the 10 sec cd that is put its baked in the sim
or itf considers 30 secs like it used to be
full kindle
๐
regal agate
yes the cd is in simc
so it can happen that both trinkets have the same use condition (for example for sub to use it during dance with symbols) this can end in a delayed use of the 2nd trinket and give a lower result
tough hornet
lol
light void
nova girder
Is "hectic add cleave" the fightstyle to SIM for M+?
Or is there something better i can do?
frail scaffold
Quick question
Im using Raidbots to import SimC and it seems to be dropping the offhand
is this formatting incorrect or something?
off_hand=the_kingslayers,id=128869
modest ravine
raidbots isn't simming with the NLC traits. is something bugged with the simc apl or just raidbots?
boreal patrol
armory doesn't report your NC traits, you'll have to use /simc
modest ravine
๐
vocal moss
why is my alchemist stone simming 10k higher than my spectre, isnt spectre op?
novel lava
why is eviscerate + eviscerate dfa doing only 32% of my damage on simulationcraft, but in reality it's closer to 39-45%
gray flume
If I run a raidbots setup for top gear and another one for top talents, can I put the two strings together to sim them both simultaneously?
fervent saffron
SimulationCraft encountered an error!
Simulation runtime error:
Player Flaids invalid crucible format, expected: power_id:rank[:power_id:rank...] Player Flaids invalid crucible format, expected: power_id:rank[:power_id:rank...]
Whats the Problem there ?
lofty kiln
Update your simc
maiden cargo
is it possible to run simulationcraft in the background?
oh, nevermind... I saw the loading bar changing color and thought it stopped when out of focus
tribal ginkgo
using shadowcraft to calculate racial bonuses would be a viable thing aye?
regal agate
ask in #226375547381350400 but you can also just use raidbots and use the copy statements from #subtlety (pinned)
tribal ginkgo
cheers fuu, new to this discord so I must be blind in missing shadowcraft channel lul appreciate it
main badger
how fare apart are sub and assa on simc atm after buff and all . ?
regal agate
on patchwork ~90k with heroic gear
regal agate
not sure if those charts represent all classes well, some profiles may be not updated/optimized for NC
atomic eagle
any idea what the best rogue spec is gonna be for the next raid?
maiden cargo
Looks like Sub, unless they make some adjustments to Sin.
acoustic inlet
am i doing something wrong or is insignia just my best leggy? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cKMAimQuSjvAQc25kD8Gyq
i see first of the dead and denial of half giants promoted as best everywhere, does simming pick up on those effects or just the stats on the gear?
maiden cargo
Hi guys - have sims for the Burning Throne been putting SIN ahead of SUB?
I've been pulling up armories from top raiding rogues and I'm seeing them logged out in sin gear. On top, a quick look at some of their wowprog pages shows artifacts up in the 64 range so that they are definitely putting points into their sin weapon now ( xariiz is a good example ).
Not sure if this is because sin is expected to pull ahead ... they are hedging bets ... or it's misdirection ahead of the next race - but I can't see anyone putting that much ap into a weapon unless they thought it was worth it.
Any thoughts appreciated and cheers.
tough hornet
https://i.imgur.com/Y9aTikh.png @acoustic inlet its actually not that far behind on pure single target
it depends on your offpieces
your cof is only 895 and your engine is 925
hands would be good except you have a 955 chest equiped going to a 910 one
regal agate
it comes down to the fight and personal preference. 7.3 had the aim to make the content easier therefore its fine if you play whatever you like if you already have the content on farm status.
How exactly is that related to simulations?
@maiden cargo .
acoustic inlet
@tough hornet alright, didnt know insignia was that close to them, thanks!
barren sequoia
when you see a crown going for cheap with vers and mastery but its plate ๐ค
ashen crater
Sim your tier 1 talents as well. Gloomblade usually does better than Master of Subtlety with Insignia.
fallen mica
frosty kiln
!sim us/suramar/zamunda -s
regal agate
#bot-spam
vagrant quail
it's possible to add to raid bots relic compare a mode where you input all the possibles T2 and t3 traits you relic previewed and it automatically generated all the possible combinations and simulate to get with one is the best combination ?
would save a lot of time testing relics.
vital ledge
I just got a relinquished relic in 930 and I wanted to check it with my other relics, but I can't find it's ID on Wowhead in that ilevel, any ideas to what I can do?
regal agate
put in the relics name and itemlvl on https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/relic and select the traits
vital ledge
@regal agate thanks I will try that
errant sandal
Im not too savvy on how the sim program works, but would it optimally use the ability of
for ex when sub has all its buffs up
errant sandal
Im curious as to doing that actually benefits me, or if the sim already took that into consideration and is telling me that its still not good enough
civic pumice
is there a way to sim specter without overlap? Want to gauge floor of it vs other trinkets when boss moves around a lot
like maiden
split sorrel
yes
@knotty oriole added it, don't remember the syntax (and can't look right now)
we could add it in the trinket list btw @boreal patrol
knotty oriole
legion.specter_of_betrayal_overlap=0
split sorrel
๐
maiden cargo
Is there any Way to sim the crafted jc head on raidbots Without the simc addon? Currently at School and dont have access to the addon
boreal patrol
you can get simc input strings from the "links" menu on wowhead
zenith urchin
Doad anyone have the ID of the crucible trait ? Like the +5 ilvl is 1739 but I don't know what's the other
boreal patrol
there is a pastebin link pinned in #subtlety
for T2
T3 is same ids as in artifact
zenith urchin
Oh okay, thx ^^
regal agate
you can also just goto raidbots and select the traits, the id's are displayed in the input form then
maiden cargo
@boreal patrol do i Then just copy the string from wowhead in the text box below character information?
boreal patrol
yup
vital ledge
Where can I find the crucible ID's for simming relics?
boreal patrol
i just answered that question earlier ๐
maiden cargo
๐ป
pine pendant
Question, can simulation model accurately those relic bonuses from netherlight crucible?
boreal patrol
yes
lunar trout
Anyone got an idea what a realistic amount of traits to use for future simulations would be? Not sure how easy they will be to achieve with max AK. At the moment I'm running sims with 81 (so 30 ranks in Concordance) but not sure. Aiming for end-of-life simulations for current raid/start of next raid.
boreal patrol
default profiles use 24 concordance, so you got every NC trait
gaunt gale
I think someone in #subtlety did the math and 75 is a reasonable goal for Antorus. I know there's a spreadsheet floating around on Reddit somewhere too.
boreal patrol
there is a spreadsheet from Binkenstein https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WUMSQtelc_Hyk181UZJ0GdNvbvRfjWORWud5RfUy9Bk/edit#gid=1181843902
fiery yoke
Does anyone know what the opener is without mantle?
regal agate
you might ask in the spec specific channel
vocal saddle
anyone else having problems with simulationcraft since the last update?
oh theres a new build. nevermind
nova current
is their anyway in simcraft to take off the damage specter of betrayal does without the little ghost things?
torn dome
legion.specter_of_betrayal_overlap=0
nova current
thank you @torn dome and where do i type that exactly, under all my simc char info?
torn dome
very bottom
nova current
thanks again
hollow kernel
I keep trying to sim myself using both the release and nightly builds, and SimC keeps crashing. Any idea why?
maiden cargo
Computer issue?
dense mountain
hrrm tooltip from DfA says its empowered by shadow energy. does the 1 and 2nd pard deal shadow damage? its yellw in simc
spring coyote
Not sure if this is the best channel to ask this, but I'm simming higher with Bracers/Boots as a Sin rogue. Everywhere I read, says Mantle/Bracers are best. Not complaining about my dps, just curious as to why my boots/bracers are going against all the docs Ive read. Any help or a push in the right direction would be much appreciated.
snow citrus
boreal patrol
@DistinctFate#5172 best legendaries aren't set in stone for each char, that's why it's good to sim yourself. apart from the combination you mentioned, I've also seen mantle/boots and mantle/head sim well
raw knoll
mantle boots is higher for me with 2 vendetta 1 ma relic. 3 vendetta and wrists sim higher
have to figure out your own combo
fickle sinew
If you have multiple torment the weak, will you ever waste procs?
aka, if you get a proc when you're already at 3
will it be wasting dps
or does each proc create it's own instance per relic?
lofty kiln
It just increases damage each tick does
3x TtW behaves exactly like 1x TtW, the former just does three times as much damage on each tick
fickle sinew
Ah ok, so if you have 3 of them, 1 tick will do as much damage as a 3 stack with 1?
lofty kiln
Yeah
fickle sinew
Ok cool, ty
humble kayak
how do i compare two sets of legs against eachover? do i just replace line in my equiped slot with legendary i want to sim. or there is other lines i need to change (rotation etc )
plucky mural
@humble kayak I would use Raidbots.com Gear compare. very easy. Paste your /simc data in the import box or use armory import, then define compare pants. will sim them side by side.
If you are comparing oranges in different slots, it will take a bit more work.
humble kayak
raidbots same results as simcraft on my pc?
regal agate
with an up to date simc version and same settings yes
humble kayak
and where i can take strings for different legs? just to load some other account who have it and copy from there?
plucky mural
you are talking about Legendaries? not pants..
oy. You can get the strings from wowhead. The ID number. Or use the gear compare tool on raidbots and you can search by name.
regal agate
easy way would be to go to raidbots and just add the legendary item or use idtip(addon) and just write them down from doungeon jurnal (you can add ,ilevel=xxx to get the itemlvl version you want)
humble kayak
tnx gona try it. by the way simmed on raidbots and simcraft and it realy same results. so no reason to make my pc struggle through simming lol
cyan tendon
which trinket for pve assa rog [Cradle of Anguish][Umbral Moonglaives][Engine of Eradication] ?
gray flume
Too broad of a question @Ka#7138 sim yourself for the content you want to do.
regal agate
odd ice
Agility=27.21, CritRating=26.55, HasteRating=14.37, MasteryRating=24.45, Versatility=25.36, this means im changing all the enchants etc to crit instead of mastery basically?
weak plover
Hello,
by the trinketsim. http://tc.ravenholdt.net/trinkets/rogue_subtlety_dfa_t20h_1t.html ....are not the new 935 astral Alchemiststone...how good is it 4 sub rouge ? in the ranking ?
boreal patrol
oh, the stone is not in the list, i'll note down to add it
weak plover
yes my problem is...i habe so many trinkets but dont believe raidbots.com by sim all the trinkets...atm. i have Astral Alchemiststone 935...Momento of Angerboda 940...EngineOfEradication 915, stats trinket with 2604 Agi/ 1295 Vers....anf Conv. of Fades 865...and i dont know which is best to us
boreal patrol
what do you mean? you should be able to use raidbots top gear for that kind of comparison
weak plover
i use raidbots..but i dont believe the results from raidbots....it is not logical for me // https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wpYwXc34VWagZB6hQ1FyVj...this is the simm
boreal patrol
sim looks alright to me (although i recommend settings raidbots to nightly build)
results are pretty close, so ofc you may consider your setup in situations other than patchwerk
nova girder
Topgear sims are limited if 2 eqipped and 2 others are selected then 300k or more are reached. So no way to sim this many trinkets at once. Dont get me wrong just wanted to Point this out. Im glad that raidbots exists and is useble for free, most parts, but if ur not a patron then u cant use it like this.
boreal patrol
top gear with default 10k iterations and 4 trinkets selected is 60k iterations, which should not be a big deal
nova girder
Hm then its a ring or a belt witch pushes iteration count or im just a pleb
No offense
๐
hallow gull
Quick question for anyone who uses curcibleweights, the +1 ilvl value at the bottom when setting up weights, I assume that means +1 weapon ilvl, not +1 relic ilvl?
hallow gull
+5 relic ilvl increase your weapon ilvl by how much? because sometimes it seems to be 2 and sometimes it seems to be 1
lofty kiln
That's correct, depends on the actual ilvl
hallow gull
so how am I supposed to work out how much each ilvl is worth? I've been simming a relic with and without the +5 to get the difference, but I need to know how much that +5 is worth to get the value by which I need to divide the difference
each weapon ilvl that is
actually hang on
i think i'm being stupid
the +5 that NC gives, thats +5 weapon ilvl directly right, not +5 relic ilvl
remote dune
Does anyone know why my gloves is simming more than my ring is for aoe
soul of the shadowblade -> Ring
remote dune
hectic add cdleave
wrong?
and my replacement item when I use ring/shoulders is a 935 tier gloves and 930 pants but with shoulders/glove I use 915 tier pants and the leg gloves
regal agate
hectic cleave has add waves
you dont nessecerly have adds all the time
if you want to have only aoe you can add more boss targets (3-5)
regal agate
no
remote dune
so is using vanish right before DfA better since you can get the second Evisc with the 100% crit
regal agate
its fixed and also closed on the dashboard aswell as i made a pin for changes in 7.3 in #subtlety
buoyant parcel
whats the status on fixing 2xMA relic sims
dense mountain
is dfa shadow damage?
dense mountain
odd if we read tooltip empower weap with shadow energy...
velvet kindle
Does anyone know why I cant sim my character? saying it failed
remote dune
So do we just use the relic calculator to calculate the best relics?
hollow root
Hello. Just wanted to ask if Relic Simulations on http://tc.ravenholdt.net have been updated to reflect the changes to Dark Sorrows?
boreal patrol
they have ๐
hollow root
thank you!
dense mountain
can i sim directly by specifying stat rating?
gaunt gale
it's doable, but can be a bit of a pain in the ass. documentation should be on the simc website
dense mountain
ok thx
rapid patrol
anyone know to get the weights for crucible addon?
regal agate
there are some in gray hounds spreadsheed just look at that one
rapid patrol
!relics
steel zealotBOT
List of relics for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/
weak plover
is the new 935 Astral Alchemiststone in the Trinket list ?
regal agate
its in the list on https://bloodmallet.github.io/
maiden cargo
how do you sim relics?
lofty kiln
raidbots relic compare is the easiest way
You can grab the simc input from there if you want to run it locally
coarse topaz
are the 'set' simc profiles for the site's single target parses on the github somewhere? T20M4, T20M4 + T19M2, etc
or were they just with the bonus forced on
lunar trout
To my knowledge, they are modifications to the default profiles which you can find @ https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/tree/legion-dev/profiles @coarse topaz
regal agate
you can just look at the combinator script
boreal patrol
it's using a modified default profile without legos or set pieces and swapping them in as needed
spiral pebble
Is there a way to see what Engine sims like assuming 0 orbs picked up?
I just got 930 socketed engine and simming shows it beats my 890 cof by like 2k, but requires me to wear the shitty tier helm and leggo gloves (obviously)
boreal patrol
legion.engine_of_eradication_orbs=X
spiral pebble
tyty
boreal patrol
thanks for the reminder btw, will add it to the trinket sim results soon
boreal patrol
just add that line to your profile and set X to the number of orbs you want to collect
spiral pebble
after my character info or just above gear from bags section
boreal patrol
doesn't really matter
spiral pebble
it shoots me an error saying fault in the code
idk
i'm trying it by pasting simc addon to raidbots
not sure if thats why its unsupported
spiral pebble
Seems to have went through
not sure if it'll actually read it
Do you know the max amount of orbs that pop out or does it do it as long as the buff is active?
cause 0 orbs vs 2 was like, 700 dps
spiral pebble
yeah, just trying to see the margin from never picking up any vs picking up every single one ever
i'm trying to make myself want to use this trink
barebones it simmed like 2k higher than my 890 cof + wrists setup
this trink requires garbo tier helm and gloves so im not super excited about it right now lol
tough hornet
it would be interesting to see dps values of spectre scaled from 0 to all overlaps missed over a fight length, but im not sure if simc allows that atm
strong rune
we could build in a flag
pretty easily
for "probability of overlap"
want me to add it?
tough hornet
that would be cool to see yeah because im fairly certain if you miss more than 3 overlaps in a fight
other trinkets win
strong rune
so the interface i'm considering is something like
legion.spectre_of_betrayal.probablity_of_overlap=[0, 1]
where the value is the probability that your usage (after the first) overlaps the previous
tough hornet
yeah, like in my raid the probability is 25% that the tank will pull the boss away haha
tough hornet
it could work but then you cant also sim for a specific number of missed overlaps to see the threshold
if that makes sense
im mostly interested in the point when it becomes worse than other trinks
like on maiden you miss some overlaps and on avatar
same with kj
but its still good on all 3
strong rune
that depends on how long the fight is
which isn't something we know at launch time
so it would be really tough to implement the flag/option in terms of "missed opportunities" there
tough hornet
yeah
do you know if the bonuses are updated in PTR version of simc?
and currently i think the 2p sub doesnt work ingame
id like to sim some builds
strong rune
not 100% sure, i've been out of the loop on simc for a few weeks
prepping for job interviews, etc
tough hornet
yeah same its career fair for me this week was super busy
brisk wadi
anyone know if simc is updated for the t21 changes?
boreal patrol
T21 is up to date using ptr=1 and latest nightly for assa and outlaw
i will update sub as well this Sunday or Monday
pastel kiln
hey guys anyone has a chart with the trinket rankings with item levels and stuff for rogues?
I've seen a chart like that for boomkins and stuff
but I'm having trouble deciding which trinket to use
regal agate
check the pins in the spec channel
pastel kiln
oh ok
maiden cargo
unborn trellis
!sim eu/Grim-Batol/Queixadas -s
finite lodge
Is anyone able to figure out why I sim about 2k higher when using higher iterations in raidbots? (50k base with target error to 0.05% vs 25k)
50k #1: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/f6QtMiCg1YQQs57q9k1T3N
50k #2: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jgtjwN9eD3FMgzcWFM7RgR
25k #1: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fqJTBeyasE2vSSPiyN2RmS
25k #2: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aWjrRHcduFt9GDt2V1BNoy
regal agate
lower target error
finite lodge
Yeah but why would that push the average up?
regal agate
possibly
finite lodge
I guess the data skews lower?
Also smaller target error only results in about 27k iterations anyway
finite lodge
No, the neck swap is in all 4
finite lodge
Yeah but I'm just trying to figure out why lower target error pushes the average up
regal agate
shouldnt be more then ~ 600 dps
finite lodge
Also how to read that target error? Would it be +/-error for 95% or +/-error divided by 2
e.g if it's 1 mil and error is 1k, is 95% 1mil+/-1k or 1mil+/-500
regal agate
its low enough to be lower then 1k neverless
hollow fiber
this may be the correcy channel..
My simulationcraft program can't give me a pawn-string or anything that tells me the statweights with latest simulation. Am I blind?
maiden cargo
Did you enable stats scaling ?
full stratus
hi all, has there been any changes recently that increase the value of vers dramatically?
didn't run any sims for a fair while and now all of a sudden vers has wildly overtaken mastery and agi as top spot
is everyone getting similar results? putting all my gems and enchants to vers only i still come out with the following
( Pawn: v1: "Mabba - Subtlety (Raidbots)": Class=Rogue, Spec=Subtlety, Agility=27.72, CritRating=25.60, HasteRating=19.06, MasteryRating=27.46, Versatility=30.10 )
regal agate
NC tier 2 traits make versa stronger
full stratus
ah cool, so it's not unusual now for vers to be #1?
regal agate
depends on the fight type but for patchwork its not
hollow fiber
@maiden cargo now it works. Thank you. For some reason scaling was off.
willow pecan
Why is the exsang opener in SimC uses vendetta first thing?
it looks like a waste of energy
boreal patrol
this will be fixed as soon as i review the latest APL issue/suggestion
gray flume
Can someone explain what's going on with the sims here? I'm not understanding the math.
Cradle vs Chaos Tal
both 935
haste is equal (wish it wasn't haste anyway)
but...319 Agi stacking 10 times....3190
169 Agi from Chaos stacking 20 times....3380
Cradle falls off if HP drops
Chaos falls off if I don't auto-attack
but I simmed a patchwork fight
Shouldn't that be never ending autoattack?
Why is 3190 > 3380?
gray flume
...nvm... 10-sec additional ramp ip
gray flume
Even then, it still doesn't make sense.
If my current Agi stat weight is 27.26
The ramp up is combined 20-sec. Avg difference of 697.75 Agi/sec in favor of Cradle
But then on a 4-min sim....it's 190 Agi/sec in favor of Chaos for 220 seconds.
If neither buff falls off, over the course of the fight I'd think the higher amount would catch up, no?
Granted that first 20-sec is a major damage window. But it's one burst phase. There'd be 7-8 other DfA cycles happening all affected by the higher amount.
glass apex
I'm confused - sims tells me mastery is king for multi target but my 920 Versa Trinket sims higher than my 915 mastery Trinket ?! Same for Sin Rogue ! Mastery is way ahead but the versa trinket sims higher...
regal agate
thats for aoe
glass apex
I known Fuu... thats what comfused me ! 55.01 Mastery in the Pictures for AOE but like i said my 920 Mastery Stat Trinket Sims lower than my 915 Versa Stat Trinket for AOE...
strong gorge
Aqua, in your previous post you said
920 Versa Trinket sims higher than my 915 mastery Trinket
vs
920 Mastery Stat Trinket Sims lower than my 915 Versa Stat Trinket
Maybe easier if you clarify
glass apex
Oh sry!!!
920 Versa - 915 Mastery !
So the 920 Versa Sims higher for AOE but it should ne the 915 Mastery One
strong gorge
What makes you say that? The 920 has more of the stats, that might cover the difference. Let me take up some numbers
And then as you probably know, stats influence eachother. But from using your weights
It seems the mastery should be slightly more worth, however mastery and vers, and esp in AoE situations, scales of eachother very closely. So getting 1300 extra mastery may very well affect the wight of versatility, and vice verse.
I would trust the sims
strong gorge
If you want you can link the reports and I can take a quick look
glass apex
I cant right Now... Not at home... I am on Mobile app
strong gorge
Well whenever :)
But I still stand by that you should trust the sims, and it would be unlikely that they are incorrectly implemented. Can't hurt to check though
regal agate
It's probably due to how stats wights get calculated
e.g. you have diffrent impact when changing your gear and therefore the old wight loses value
fallow wave
Guys, we still dont have T21 sims? Why is taking so long?!
split sorrel
Why not ?
I didn't know Antorus was released yet and there were not anymore any class/item changes (i.e. everything is already set in stone) ?
fallow wave
Dont know! You answer me !? Complex?
split sorrel
It's being worked on actively these days ๐
fallow wave
๐๐
split sorrel
Feel free to contribute to "make the progress faster" on this ๐
fallow wave
Doing the first step provoking good brains like yours
Some players are on a x-road regarding AP investment (sub X sin). So a good preview could help on a solid decision.
boreal patrol
previews are possible, but things change and it is still a while until Antorus opens, so it doesn't make much sense to release early data
split sorrel
You should really consider the kind of fights there will be in Antorus rather than waiting for patchwerk (or even with some raid events) sims. Cf. Avatar in ToS ;)
Or you can farm 75+ on both ๐
odd sedge
Dont ever, ever trust sims to decide where to put ap, or even legendaries
fallow wave
It's a factor to support decision but agree that can't be used alone.
regal agate
simc is wrong one to blame, the lack of understanding of the tool and the late changes (blizzard loves to change things) to things are what can make it less usefull
odd sedge
not blaming simc of anything, but it IS wrong to trust it fully regarding future decisions, its just wrong to use the tool for that kind of stuff
regal agate
blizz can change balance easy and they did in the past and probably will in futer, so even without any tool you cant predict it ๐คท. Tool can help you analyse the changes they do so thats a plus.
tho things are not problematic now that ap are easy to catch up and legos are acessable (relics might be an issue)
grizzled estuary
Exsang apl seems correct now, on toxic blade build however first skill used on opener is vendetta
Can anyone check?
celest hinge
Hey can anyone tell me how to use SimC to find my stat weights?
kinda new to simming
Or point me in the direction on this discord, cant find it
wraith summit
Can anyone tell me why Ask Mr Robot is telling me to stack crit? Telling me 77% mastery and 138% crit is better. I think it's breaking my char but everyone is saying AMR is trustworthy
Got my export data from AMR addon if that helps
wraith summit
Yeah, but I have a mult-target sim and single target sim. It gets me to use mantle with the 138% crit for single target and multi is without mantle and gets me to stack haste for multi-target non-mantle
wraith summit
Anyone here use AutoSimc? I've followed a long list of instructions and get to running the launch.bat file and the command script opens up and then immidioately closes again.
What have I missed?
novel stratus
Can someone explain how to read this chart: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/relics/rogue_subtlety_dfa_t20h_1t.html?
ruby silo
i'm a little bit confused about my sub rogue stat priority ( guides says its mastery-ver-crit-haste),but my pawn addon says my enhancements are: crit =20.1, ver = 17.07, mast =16.57, haste =16.1. my currently stats are: crit=26%, ver =9%, mast= 94%, haste=11%
torn dome
The guide says to sim yourself
gray flume
@Vherax#5321 The chart says that IF you use Mantle and Hands, that the traits with the longest bars at least theorhetically contribute most to your damage capacity.
Though generally speaking, I think most of us probably "hope" or aim to get Gutripper relics that have one of the better T2 traits, and then ES, WP, or maybe SS as an additional trait.
And that's just because if you switch lego's from Mantle/Hands to Mantle/Bracers, Soul Shadows improves in value. And since a lot of people switch relics in varying fights, it's good for your relics to also have some adaptability.
But generally. Longer bar = better trait.
i.e. if your relic has Fortunes Bite, and you throw it into the crucible to discover it has Light Speed and Demon's Kiss. burn it. And forget it exists.
split sorrel
I tend to like WeakPoint and with Mistress relics it might be easy to get an high ilvl version
tough hornet
yeah weakpoint is nice too, although i felt the pain for a while on any aoe fight because i had double weakpoint and 1 ES
good on ST though
i dont like soul shadows in general as it is only decent with bracers and i like the freedom to swap legendaries without feeling like my relics are worthless
i use cape on like 4/9, ring on 1/9, and if i had good offpiece hands on like 2/9 as well
regal agate
soul shadows is not as powerful.
St traits are also good in add fights just not useful in mass aoe.
grizzled estuary
Anyone able to check the assassination apl? It is using vendetta right out of stealth in the opener
torn dome
Yes?
regal agate
only for ap tho it slightly delays vendetta with exang
grizzled estuary
Opener with exsang seems perfect now yes
celest hinge
Ty wEak. Another question. It's telling me my stat priority is Vers > Crit > mastery as sub, but i feel like it simmed incorrectly because it was also telling me my evis is only doing ~23% of my damage, but when i did H ToS with my guild the logs showed my evis was ~40% of my damage, & i was parcing quite well. (90+ on all but kj)
celest hinge
There's only 2 bosses where you really use shuriken storm though right?
& maybe a little on demonic inq when you get them together
torn dome
correct
novel lava
weak point gives you the highest priority damage and, even though it is very slightly worse than energetic stabbing over a 5 minute fight, being able to deal more burst to a priority target has value as well
gray flume
A lot of it probably has to do with feel. ES is nice if you forget to plan ahead entering ShD as you get a little energy return so you can fit those 3 SS and an Evis in. But yeah, generally I like Gutripper and then Iโll be very content with either WP or ES as the T3 trait.
main vine
hard quest
does the specter of betrayal overlap command not work anymore? used to work but now gives me errors when trying to use it
legion.specter_of_betrayal_overlap=0
that one
boreal patrol
it was renamed to legion.specter_of_betrayal_overlap_prob=0 recently and i changed the name back today, so it should work again with the next nightly but until then use what i mentioned
functionality changed, you can now enter a fractional number with a chance to have it overlap
like 0.5 means 50% chance to have overlapping reflections
umbral crag
is there a similar command for the Eye of Command trinket, that let's you reset the stacks X amount of times in a simulation?
tough hornet
whoa specter is way better than i thought with 0 overlap
regal agate
overlap just makes it insanely strong ๐
vagrant quail
i only use raidbots to do sims... where i need to put legion.specter_of_betrayal_overlap_prob=0
to make it work ?
split sorrel
you need to use advanced
so you have to write ur input
although you can generate it thourgh top gear (for example) and add it afterwards
iron elk
crucibles arent imported automatically?
maiden cargo
Ya it's pretty annoying for raidbots discord bot
iron elk
ok, ty
barren sequoia
what happens when you overlap spectre?
maiden cargo
what?
strong gorge
@barren sequoia Both the "Specters" will deal the pulsing damage. So in effect you double the potential damage.
So the overlap probability basically decides how often that will occur. With 0 probability they will never overlap, f.ex on a fight where you move the boss at all times.
boreal patrol
what would you think is weird?
river karma
That crit has such a high rating. I'm only at 63% mastery, should have probably told that
boreal patrol
crit is usually quite high if you don't have mantle