what is assassination? 😕
#tc-research
boreal patrol
but on a more serious note, i was hoping to have a look at some issues
already have a very small apl change in my pipeline
i'd prefer people working on assa who actually spend more time playing it though 😄
willow pecan
well, i can help in the same way i helped swol, mostly by pointing out stuff XD
boreal patrol
if you see things are wrong, it's best if you open an issue on our RHTC hub
plucky mural
Sin is def my preferred spec. So I'm glad to see it get tweaked.
boreal patrol
makes it easy to track what has to be done
willow pecan
can i have a link?
regal agate
willow pecan
thanks
boreal patrol
^
regal agate
https://github.com/Ravenholdt-TC/Rogue/issues
if you are lazy and dont want to klick on "issues" tab
willow pecan
the issues i saw with SimC were very similar to the ones in AMR
mostly, Toxic Blade put a wranch in both of them
manic pulsar
@willow pecan I have to go for now, but I just updated the default rotation on the live site. Gearing strategies are not updated to reflect it yet, of course.
willow pecan
Great :)
thanks for the help!
so next week it should be live?
manic pulsar
yeah sometime next week, we'll announce the new gearing strategies as they come out on our forum
willow pecan
cool
manic pulsar
(i still think there could be a bit more improvement on this rotation, but this has the bigger fixes)
regal agate
there is always sth to improve 🤷
pure condor
does amr have sample sequences?
regal agate
you can look at the log if you enable it in the options
willow pecan
yes, you change the "ouput level" to "log"
plucky mural
Uncheck the filters until completed casts or something. Very clean view
pure condor
toxic blades still a bit wonky
only 3 globals during debuffs here and there.
one time even a 6s of nothing right after toxic blade
plucky mural
I wonder if Amr can pool better prior to Kb or Tb.
I've heard simc has a problem with that.
pure condor
simc shouldnt have a problem
willow pecan
simc has a lot of problems..
regal agate
simc works fine with pooling
pure condor
yep
hollow spear
strong rune
insignia's not terrible, don't killyaself
gaunt gale
insignia&bracers being ahead of belt&bracers surely isn't that surprising? especially when the replacement belt is higher than the replacement ring
ivory stag
2t19+4t20+bracers+insig is a viable contender if high ilvl on the t19 so
atleast from what i've heard
maiden cargo
for sub idk
manic pulsar
SimC isn't simulating the damage for insignia on sub rogues correctly. It's too high. I have some notes on our wiki for how to calculate it if someone is interested in fixing it.
hallow abyss
Guys whats sim?
finite thunder
simulation
spark bronze
Is it possible DfA is simming wrong for Outlaw? I would think the damage per execute time for run through would increase if you were using DfA, wouldn't it?
plucky mural
@manic pulsar had a q. about Frond sims with AMR. Is it modeled differently than in Simc?
afk. sleep. ill check back later
past token
@full kindle seems about right. My breakpoint was around 6 minutes where vigor ring started winning
rich temple
@spark bronze maybe it considers the DFA downtime as part of its RT execute time?
boreal patrol
@full kindle are those numbers from simc?
willow pecan
Btw, to add to @plucky mural 's question
AMR values Specter of betrayal a lot higher than SimC does.
and i wonder why
full kindle
@boreal patrol Yes, i used raidbot
i was wondering if this build coud do in a mythic environement
boreal patrol
i'd be interested in the gear setup used, because in my 5min sims i've never seen vigor 6pc that close
full kindle
@boreal patrol With thoses sim i was using head / Chest T19 whitch i have in 915 / 920 with shoudler / Pants / Gloves / back of T20
whitch i have in 915 exept for the pants (lfr pants)
But i looked at the pieces you woud want with this and it woud be T20 chest and T19 back
Didn't got them yet
You can still go check armory, my char name is Ciôx
I belive i DC with this on
runic sinew
Is simc off? Raidbots has my dps at 1.16mil but iam only managing to pull 800-900k. Amr has me siming at 947k which seems a little more what iam seeing.
regal agate
raidbots is not off
runic sinew
I must be really screwing up my st rotation then....
I cant get anywhere near 1.16mil ...
Raidbot is patchwerk style
Right?
regal agate
if you sim patchwork it is
willow pecan
@runic sinew what talents are you using
runic sinew
The talent setup in riffs guide.
willow pecan
so MP/Subterfuge/vigor/TB ?
runic sinew
Iam talking sin
willow pecan
yes i can read.
runic sinew
I just did a raidbot sim
Err sub
Imean
Sin iam pulling about that much single target.
willow pecan
ah, well, i dunno about sub sims :x
runic sinew
Idk
I just dont know how i can reach those numbers
Amr sims me at 947 and tjat just seems a bit closer to what iam seeing live
I told myself i wont go back to sin no matter how bad i want to! Lol
Sub is alot morr fun but sin iam just seeing better numbers.
civic cradle
sub feels all over the place to me, especially with the dfa into shadow dance thing
manic pulsar
@plucky mural @willow pecan As far as I know (and a quick spot check confirms), SimC and AMR are simulating frond and specter the same. I get same number of hits/uses for same average damage in the two sims.
The ranking of the items in the gear lists is going to be a bit of a separate issue, since there is necessarily a higher margin of error there. The instant trinket rankings will get you close, but you will be able to squeeze out that last 1% or so theoretical DPS by simulating a few of the best trinkets specifically for your character. Items like CoF are particularly hard to rank, especially when combined with other specific trinkets. Fight lengths will also mess with how powerful certain items are.
plucky mural
@rustic eagleus87#7909 simc is best rotation possible. If that is not possible due to human fingers, then you may be closer to Amr.
manic pulsar
AMR is best rotation possible too 😉
My guess is that @runic sinew might have inadvertently set something up differently between the two simulators. If you give me a link to the WCL you are looking at, I can take a look for you.
regal agate
simc has nothing in thats impossible for a human
manic pulsar
Well, that's not entirely true, fuu.
plucky mural
Really tho. If your personal dps is Lower than sim, just go to logs and sort by ilvl. Find a guy at your ilvl performing at the sim values. And study that.
manic pulsar
SimC does do some things that are impossible for humans, although the cumulative effect of them is less than 1% DPS total.
plucky mural
I found a guy at 913 doing 1.15m st goroth. Thus my sub sim.
regal agate
what do you reffer to?
plucky mural
I have major rotational errors
willow pecan
Right now SimC sims me around 30k higher than AMR though.
that being said, SimC is very generous with PBs, and puts them at 9% of damage
while AMR puts them at 7%
maiden cargo
🙀
regal agate
how high is pb impact on your logs? 😉
manic pulsar
When you are waiting for energy to perform an action in-game, you will never be able to use that ability at exactly the time you gain the necessary energy. If you need 55 energy for a mutilate, and you get a venomous wounds proc at time 3.000 - you will never be able to act at exactly time 3.000. In SimC, the player DOES act at exactly that time. This is unrealistic.
SimC is bugged for poison bomb, which is why you see the difference.
It ticks one extra time per proc than it does in-game.
plucky mural
Mark Really tho. Find a log at your ilvl and review their cast timeline opener and buff windows. Sim is achievable. Just takes work.
willow pecan
@regal agate PB impact on logs is pretty high
manic pulsar
SimC is having PB tick on-hit - making it tick 7 times per proc. It only ticks 6 times per proc in-game because it doesn't tick on-hit.
manic pulsar
I know, and that is what I did!
willow pecan
i'll open a bug on that for SimC if that's the case
manic pulsar
The other bug, which is pretty minor, is that SimC is applying deadly poison from kingsbane MH/OH hits. That doesn't happen in-game. You get a stack of the damage increase debuff from the initial hits, but they can't actually proc a deadly poison hit.
willow pecan
how did you even found that one XD
manic pulsar
Because I'm not afraid to use both simulators and dig through logs 😉
maiden cargo
😎
manic pulsar
having two simulators is a good thing
plucky mural
as ive always said. 1/3 Sim 1/3 Logs 1/3 Experience.
cant lean too heavily on one tool
I dont know how to confirm the 7hits on simc tho
regal agate
put log=1 on top of your sim
manic pulsar
you set output to "log only" and then you can search through and find the poison bomb procs
willow pecan
Btw, Swol, take a look at the opener SimC does, it does not refresh garrote in the opener with subterfuge
and wEak has mentioned that it's a loss for him to refresh garrote
sounds weird to me, might be worth checking
manic pulsar
for which talent build? toxic blade or exsang?
willow pecan
toxic blades / MP / Subterfuge / vigor
plucky mural
it is also very normal for companies to scour competition to help get a better product.
esp since once is paid and other is free.
zing
manic pulsar
right now I'm not refreshing garrote in the opener for toxic blade, but I think it does for exsang - I need to work on the exsang opener in general.
I'll look at that tomorrow and improve it.
willow pecan
i'm pretty sure you do, at least the last time i've had a look
it looked to me as if you've taken the opener that i do
manic pulsar
I see garrote as first action out of stealth, and then next time it happens is time 9.241
willow pecan
yah, so it does refresh it
manic pulsar
yeah because the second one happens during a vanish
willow pecan
one second i'll show you the opener from SimC
manic pulsar
seems like a loss not to refresh it during vanish?
willow pecan
i would imagine it is, @torn dome says it's a loss to refresh it
manic pulsar
well, let give it a test, one sec
manic pulsar
training dummy
willow pecan
no garrote in SimC
i wonder if the same opener in AMR would produce better results or not
manic pulsar
@regal agate - if you are using items like symbiote or zoldyck, you will also want to normalize the compression of the start/end of the fight
simc and amr don't do it the same way
@willow pecan Here is default that refreshes it:
1099.8k DPS, http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/da31faf5f685468daf4bfb2348c549dd
Here is rotation edited to not refresh it during that first vanish/mantle buff:
1094.7k DPS, http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/fec81515d1664f22a8892b490f7c7d05
both +/- 2.7k dps, so really splitting hairs.
Probably slightly better to refresh it.
maiden cargo
Cradle of Anguish in 930 any good?
nova girder
Rly worth using raidbots or Amr 😃
maiden cargo
Hmm
@willow pecan @merry cloud
@manic pulsar
Im working on moonglaive APL for outlaw I mostly know what to do but there is one thing Im doubtful about, basically you need to use vanish but 2sec after using Moonglaive
I guess I need to configure vanish usage like, if=(umbral_moonglaives_duration=6)
The problem is I think it would only cast vanish during moonglaive then and this would most likely be a waste
sly yoke
yeah i fucked with that saber
it's tough because the vanish logic is so complex
i had the best success using moonglaives when vanish had between 2-6 seconds left on cooldown
and then forcing vanish use when moonglaives had less than 6 seconds left
but it's a pretty hacky way to do it
it did result in a dps increase tough
though
maiden cargo
yeah indeed
the current implementation just uses it on cd with is pretty useless
just tricky to deal with RB resets and the use after 2 sec to crit the last dmg
sly yoke
yeah it's one of those cases that's so easy to actually do but pretty hard to program effectively
willow pecan
@maiden cargo i don't know if it would work, or completly just not use moonglaives...
but try making the moonglaive condition something like:
All of vanish's conditions (just copy paste) + if vanish is ready in less than 2-3 secdons or something like that
maiden cargo
yeah seems hard to put in line tbh
i will test some things out tho can only be an increase from current lines
willow pecan
just copying vanish's line and adding that shouldn't be hard though, right?
maiden cargo
sure not talking about this
just perfecting the lines as even waiting 2-3secs isnt optimal either
willow pecan
how long does the glaive last, 8 seconds?
willow pecan
missing one tick is probably not gonna be a big deal, you can try at first add just if less than 2 until vnaish ready, but it might scew things up
i don't remember if the trinket is on GCD or not
maiden cargo
dont think it is
its kind of important to use when duration=2 to get max dmg from ticks+burst combined i believe
willow pecan
i'm just not sure if you do it on 2 seconds, what's gonna happen first
you lose vanish, or the trinket deals it's burst.
maiden cargo
pretty sure i had better dmg waiting 2 secs for burst dmg in the end
u just lose 2secs of ticks
willow pecan
yeah but need to look exactly at what the sim did
willow pecan
did you try what i suggested? copying vanish + if vanish ready in less than 3?
maiden cargo
will do it a bit later im eating
Mouse said he had better dmg output tho when doing this
willow pecan
i dunno... he said he changed vanish's condition too... doesn't seem like a good idea to me
manic pulsar
So, I was playing around with Umbral Moonglaive and Mantle of the Master Assassin. Examples:
Just use the trinket on cooldown:
1059.9k, http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/8e76765d53c444d1a74b06e8927f0308
Use trinket at start of vanish:
1060.0k, http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/52f4cd620c434768b7ad2a07ec7218c1
Time up trinket to get last tick in mantle and buff as many ticks as possible:
1064.7k, http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/33f6075ae90b4b5cb8ec8f69752fb1c2
We don't see 100% crit chance on the last one because sometimes the fight times up such that we'll use the trinket once right before the fight ends when vanish isn't available. The effects of timing up the trinket with mantle are very small. Adding a second on-use trinket could further complicate this, with the lock-outs possibly messing with each other.
willow pecan
thanks for testing.
I think testing this on an AoE situation would maybe give more valuable results
since we don't use this trinket for ST fights.
and having this trinket crit on multiple targets can be an exponential gain.
manic pulsar
yeah, an AoE test would be good
maiden cargo
I wanted to test it with outlaw
It should give higher result due to versatility+CotD 10% dmg bonus
but its very interesting to see my conditions give higher results thanks swol
willow pecan
btw, if you're using my charecter to test assassin, just update from armory, i changed some stuff 😅
manic pulsar
heh, sure
ok here's one aoe test before i go to sleep - haven't checked if this is 100% working or not
use it on cooldown:
1871.5k, http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/9549dfa84e6149899e7d534f0bc3cc8b
time it up with vanish (which is also timed up with aoe):
1911.4k, http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/df664039956a476daeeaa2f0e3e5ff1f
about 2% damage increase
in this case
willow pecan
that's huge
(also still didn't update my character, but doesn't matter, heh)
does this condition work only for assassin or will it work for outlaw too to test Saberslash's character?
manic pulsar
all these on use trinkets making the rotations crazy
I can try it with outlaw tomorrow - i'd imagine it's a bit easier to do with outlaw
since the vanish conditions aren't as crazy
maiden cargo
when you used with vanish
did you wait 2secs
or use vanish at beginning of trinket
manic pulsar
this was trying to get last tick in mantle window
manic pulsar
of course it obviously didn't do it 100% of the time
maiden cargo
yes there is variables with cooldowns
this is why it's so hard to put in line with outlaw as vanish cd differs from pull to pull
willow pecan
Saber yeah, have you seen what happend when i had mantle + PB + Glaives? XD
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TAfmRCJk8cVg94qH#fight=10&type=damage-done&source=11
willow pecan
BTW swol, i wonder why does Specter of betrayel is a lot more valued in AMR than SimC
maiden cargo
for sin?
maiden cargo
did the APL got updated
I changed outlaw conditions and fuu did sub conditions
dont think anyone changed it for sin
willow pecan
yeah, i was saying, specter of betrayel is not high valued for sin in SimC's ranking
but it is high value in AMR
and i wonder why
maiden cargo
well if the APL is just use on cd/heroism makes sense that simC is bad
idk about AMR but i believe simC isnt on point for that
willow pecan
that sucks, cause i was passing on that trinket 😅
willow pecan
i'm gonna run an AMR sim to see if it's also on CD there
maiden cargo
well vanish with mantle is a modifier
willow pecan
what's the CD on specter again?
maiden cargo
strange
thats actually very bad
because using it on pull would guarantee all ticks+last burst to get crit
willow pecan
i'm gonna run a few sims with raidbots/amr and see what the actual difference is
@manic pulsar @torn dome
Sim A - Engine ilvl 900. Sim B - Specter ilvl 910
AMR A - 1,110,904 DPS
AMR A - 1,120,460 DPS
Specter did 3.2% of damage
SimC A - 1,167,195 DPS
SimC B - 1,162,657 DPS
Specter did 2.2% of damage
AMR shown a 10k increase
SimC shown a 5k decrease
(this is before PB fix for SimC)
maiden cargo
may be why
willow pecan
okay, intresting.
SimC used Specter 6 times.
AMR used specter 7 times.
maiden cargo
is it because of fight length
willow pecan
yeah, i need to set it to fixed time for SimC, how do i do that
willow pecan
i'm using raibots
i can only choose length in minutes (set to 5 minutes)
i'll just install simc
torn dome
Thats just results of a single iteration
Rather look for damage difference
willow pecan
where do i look for that?
willow pecan
do i need to change any configuration before i sim to see that?
torn dome
Yes. Opt in for log in settings
willow pecan
eh, so, "generate debug: log only" i assume
torn dome
Gory if you want more detail
willow pecan
i'm not sure why i'm getting this error with SimC when trying to use specter
Specter of Betrayal 910 missing 'use_item' action for item "specter_of_betrayal" (slot=trinket1)
torn dome
You dont have action line for it
willow pecan
never had this issue before when trying to sim different trinkets
torn dome
Well thats what the warning literally says
willow pecan
so eh.. how does raidbots automatically adds this line
or, where do i find it
maybe i can copy it from raidbots
merry cloud
how you use raidbots for that?
because it is probably just generate profile for your gear. If you have trinket then APL would have line for on-use trinkets
willow pecan
hmm, the sim in raidbots had this
use_item,name=specter_of_betrayal,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=20|debuff.vendetta.up
merry cloud
if you use your own APL you have to think about it yourself
willow pecan
weak i thought you said it should just use it on CD
torn dome
I didnt say thats whap apl does. I said thats how you use it in game
willow pecan
yeah, i can see there's defintly a big gap between specter uses
this might be the reason why it's so undervalued
if you say you're supposed to use it on CD, i'll open a issue
torn dome
Notter. Apl autocreates use line for all trinkets ou dont specify
So no trinket is optimized for sin afaik
willow pecan
so by default it used it with vendetta?
merry cloud
By default it uses all trinkets with vendetta
torn dome
By the looks of it yes
Its the same for casters and owl fex
Moonkin just uses owl on cd which is obvs not optimal
willow pecan
wouldn't it make more sense that by default it should use on CD, and an optimization would make it be used with vendetta?
willow pecan
I've opened an issue about that for Mystler, he can decide what he wants to do about that
this might have heavily skewed the trinkets ranking list
in favor of passive trinkets
torn dome
cds -> add_action( "use_item,name=" + items[i].name_str + ",if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<=20|debuff.vendetta.up" );
Is whats found in engine for rogue
So this is what it autocreates for any on use trinket
torn dome
Also vial and glaives?
split sorrel
you can even pull request it, it's only 1 line
willow pecan
wouldn't it make more sense that by default all trinkets should be used on CD
torn dome
:ok_hand:
willow pecan
Glaives are different, they should be used 2 seconds before vanish, from what Swol found with AMR
especially in an AoE situation, it was a very big gain
they benefit from mantle buff
split sorrel
especially the second part
willow pecan
yeah, that's why the 2 seconds before
willow pecan
i imagine we're gonna see a shift in the trinkets list XD
torn dome
Well not really. Assa still has 0 modifiers for damage trinkets
And if you ever used specter yourself you knew it was a good consistent trinket for prog
willow pecan
yeah, but modifier or not, missing a whole cast, could skew it to be a worth a lot less than a passive trinket in the list.
and i have passed on betrayal, cause i thought it was bad. so didn't get to test it in game.
signal light
Morning guys, Im pretty new here and jsut made a comeback to wow .. any suggestions on spec(been playing both sub and assas before)? thank you
merry cloud
why do you ask that in #tc-research channel 🤦
willow pecan
@split sorrel any chance you could test how much i sim with a 910 specter with your change?
I'm intrested to see the difference
(Notterr-Ravencrest EU)
torn dome
You can get the changes from git
torn dome
If you want to build from ground up
I meant to just copy paste the changed apl lines
As the engine wasnt changed mechanically
willow pecan
so... like this i assume
actions.cds+=/use_item,name=specter_of_betrayal
ah, there we go
not a dps decrease, woo
8k incease
which makes it on par with AMR, that had 10k increase
When will a new trinket list be generated? is it everytime a nightly is built?
split sorrel
already done
just not pushed
cuz I work at the same time 😛
here we go, check it out whenever it'll be built (in less than 5mins)
willow pecan
yeah... i got to work at 7:30am, my project head is not here today, and i'm too bored to actually work.. so why not scrutinize APL XD
split sorrel
😉
zinc pecan
hey sorry for offtopic but is there a list of everything rogue that buffs specter dmg?
split sorrel
every pmultiplier that aren't school specific
AFAIK no one did a list, but you can retrieve them for simc spell data (or wowhead)
zinc pecan
wait do we even have school specific multipliers
split sorrel
@zinc pecan of course:
zinc pecan
guess im just dumb because i cant think of one except tb? 😄
median marlin
hi, is there something wrong with the assassination APL? I'm asking because it drops dps at the end of sims
maiden cargo
@willow pecan lol Nice
Im sure moonglaive should be on top 3 or smth like this for outlaw
willow pecan
you saw swol's sim with sin, with outlaw it would only be even higher
i wonder how much the outlaw vers and CotDB will make a difference
maiden cargo
pretty big
as I am using it in game and it's doing....quite alot
the only issue is that I am pretty noob at coding simC
and noone cares about outlaw that much
signal halo
when simming myself for upgrades should i just be simming single target patchwerk or? just wondering which is most accurate
maiden cargo
depends if you want single target
signal halo
well i mean all the sims on the ravenholdt site are single target right? i guess o just dont accurately know how to sim multi target fights
manic pulsar
@willow pecan I just posted an updated assassin rotation that is optimized for all the new on-use trinkets (specter, vial, glaives). Going to do outlaw and sub in just a bit and post those today too. Responding to that discussion late last night: the line simc is adding is going to be sub-optimal for all on-use damage trinket, since vendetta does not buff trinket damage. No reason to sync vendetta with damage trinkets or vice versa.
This new rotation also maximizes resets for vial of toxins
once you do that, it's pretty much equal in value to the moonglaives because of all the agility on the trinket.
torn dome
the change just removed the sync
willow pecan
@manic pulsar yeah, i found out today that SimC was delaying trinket uses ofor vendetta
now it's already changed.
but now they it only deals spesificly for Drought and Glavies
vagrant quail
why relics and trinkets are calculated using mantle/bracers if the best setup from T20M Assassination is mantle/boots ?
should't we have simulation of trinket and relics using mantle + boots setup too ?
Also since SpecterOfBetrayal and EngineOfEradication looks to be the way to go trinkets... without Convergence Of Fates is it worth using boots + vendetta relics ?
willow pecan
boots shouldn't affect the decision on using trinkets
vagrant quail
it makes convergence and relics better no?
willow pecan
i thought you meant on-use trinkets
ornate zealot
Anyone happen to know if sub haste stat break points? really dying to know...
split sorrel
200%
willow pecan
@manic pulsar @boreal patrol
I've been comparing myself on both sims
and i gotta say they give an incredibly close result now. with only a 20k difference in favor of SimC (with my current talents/legendaries)
Poison Bomb in Simc did have 2 extra ticks in total, i'm not sure why. (AMR 36.7 ticks, SimC 39.6 ticks. possible that fight length varied)
and in SimC there were about 30~ more Deadly Poison Procs, but this might change once the change mystler did goes live.
good job guys 😃
oh, i just resimmed in AMR, and i now i got 39.5 PBs, and 10k higher than SimCs result.
so i would say they are completly on par now.
also intresting... empty crown sims higher than bracers
signal halo
is AMR very accurate compared to simc? I always heard it wasnt but maybe that was BS
willow pecan
read what i just wrote :X
maiden cargo
is there any race simulations for outlaw out?
signal halo
I did read what you wrote was just saying that comparing simc and making sure it is close to amr may not necessarily mean simc is accurate right?
regal agate
amr and sim have diffrent aims/purposes so its hard to compare them
willow pecan
why's that
when simming on target dummy, they are so close togather, that the difference is meaningless.
i think that's very comperable
plucky mural
@willow pecan 10k on 1.2m sounds pretty close to me.
regal agate
i sim 200k less dps on amr on patchwork fight
both have diffrent aims and purposes so its totaly fine
willow pecan
choose to sim on dummy instead of patchwerk
i don't know how you're getting 200k differnce
and i get 10k
regal agate
@willow pecan thats becouse of the diffrent optimization lvl of the apl's
regal agate
i play sub mainly why would i look up my results for sin then?
@maiden cargo dwarf is also rly strong on sub, so feel free to join #subclub
regal agate
what popular comic/action movie/anime character would represent outlaw?@maiden cargo
vague olive
maiden cargo
s-sasuke-kun?
hallow flare
Anyone able to help a novice to use sim craft to sim dps changes in unequipped items, eg relics?
crimson hinge
johnny depp is Outlaw
maiden cargo
no, i am outlaw
past token
@hallow flare what are you looking for
if youre looking to compare loot in your bags to equipped gear, the simbuilder addon is pretty handy for generating that https://mods.curse.com/addons/wow/simbuilder
proper cairn
has SimC been changed much lately ?
mantle/wrist vs mantle/boots is like -90k dps for me
was like +5k 2 days ago
proper cairn
mantle boots sims +90 for me
willow pecan
eh, weird
regal agate
you likely made a mistake in your implementation 😉
proper cairn
well worked till two days ago
didn't change a line
correction, works with mantle/wrist, doesn't execute with mantle boots
willow pecan
maybe your opener is a dps loss then? :X
proper cairn
sure
willow pecan
though 90k loss is hard to believe
proper cairn
even if it was a dps loss
why doesn't execute
only condition is timer less than 12
boreal patrol
i'd have to have a look at your apl and report to see what's wrong
proper cairn
messaged it, thanks
boreal patrol
fine, traveling currently :D
full kindle
@boreal patrol why ? Traveling doesn't give u dps
boreal patrol
well, if you killed a boss you have to travel to the next one right? 😄
willow pecan
@manic pulsar
i think AMR might be a bit over-estimating how much damage i can do on mistress
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/0bde3f0c1808422dab6b4050cabc82f7
1.8m dps?
86m damage from FoK?
i don't really understand how's that possible
are the adds never dying in mistress sim?
and the highest sin score on that was 1.67m
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/13#boss=2037&class=Rogue&spec=Assassination&difficulty=4
signal halo
do simbuilder and simpermut do basically the same thing?
slim viper
Hmmm
Something's weird
Vanishcloak is the shitty name I picked for my rogue btw = no legendary
cerulean junco
how do you sim diffrent specs in one simulation
or is this just for stat comparisons on the legendaries in one spec
slim viper
It's all sub
But
Valeera is so up there 🤔
Is it because I'm undergeared
I'm simming for no legendary going to 1 legendary, seeing which legendary would have the largest impact
cerulean junco
are youre legs super low :D?
slim viper
They're 880
Which is more or less on par with my other gear
Most of my gear is 870-900
orchid bramble
Legs have much more stats then bracers, so you get a bigger boost to baseline for upgrading legs to 970 then bracers (or any other legendary)
slim viper
But the effect 🤔
I mean this is not like, 940->970
This is from not having a legendary -> having a legendary
maiden cargo
Anyone able to import a character into simulationcraft-gui, without the simc addon?
maiden cargo
I know of raidbots. BUt i want to get SimulationCraft GUI working. What else is the point of having it?
cerulean junco
tbh with raidbots you dont need to use the simc client anymore
only advantage is that you have no waiting time
maiden cargo
Exactly.
So why is the gui client develeoped, if it can't even import characters?
Recently they took out Battle.net tab from the import options, but left the other one in.
rich sage
@maiden cargo import from armory is working fine (for me) if you meant that
maiden cargo
What version are you using? I've tried 720-02, 725-01 and the git version from today. Try importing my character: EU, Silvermoon, Zygophylasis.
rich sage
my version is newest one from http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D
your character loads in fine
maiden cargo
I have to build my own, since I'm on Linux.
lofty kiln
If you build your own, you need API key
maiden cargo
I guess so. And how do I get one of those?
lofty kiln
🤷 That's a Blizzard thing, check their website.
maiden cargo
lol
In other words. not gonna happen.
Why is it hardcoded into the Windows version and not the Linux version?
lofty kiln
It's distributed with the binary somehow
Don't know if it's hardcoded
If you build from source on Windows, you'll have the same problem
maiden cargo
Yeah, but since a Linux binary does not exist, very few actually have this problem I think.
ornate zealot
would anyone happen to know sub rogue stat break points by any chance?
maiden cargo
I guess, since I'm a Linux user, I'll have to sign up for the Mashery thing at blizzard, just to use SimulationCraft. Weird.
lofty kiln
You could also grab the profile via raidbots
maiden cargo
sigh... raidbots is great an all. But that's not the point of this.
The Building on Linux section of the HowToBuild wiki page, does not state anywhere that an API key is needed or how to get it.
lofty kiln
Yeah, this is a recent thing I believe
Blizz didn't like that people were using their API willy-nilly
maiden cargo
Discouraging.....
Simming just became a chore for me, then.
Well, I signed up for a key. Just waiting on recieving one.
lofty kiln
simc addon not an option?
maiden cargo
I guess. Is it automatic? Or do I have to start and stop data collection somehow?
lofty kiln
Eh, you type /simc in game and get a profile you can give to the simc binary
maiden cargo
Profile based on courrently worn gear?
lofty kiln
Yes
maiden cargo
Guess I could try that.
maiden cargo
So I can't sim when I'm not logged in, besides using raidbots. Good to know. Gets my expectations in place. 😃
cerulean junco
@ornate zealot there are no breakpoints
maiden cargo
@sly yoke Yeah. And I already applied. Just seems like a hazzle, when Windows users are not required too. 😃
tulip nest
Specifically
"Note, if you use the command line client, you can put your api key into a file called "./apikey.txt" that is located in the same directory as the simulationcraft command line executable. On unixes (anywhere that has the HOME environment variable defined), you can also place the API key into a file called ".simc_apikey" in your home directory."
Although actually I'm not sure if that works for the GUI or not
maiden cargo
Nice. Ill try that when I get my key
reef canyon
@willow pecan Not sure if swol had a chance to get back to you yet or not, re: sasszine.
I made the sasszine script. IT looks like you have much faster than avg kill times on the adds (at least, when compared to the logs I was looking at the first 2 weeks of release)
I edited the script to shorter add kill times, you can try this one: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/theory/boss/f037fd31ab7144038d92515c2994eaa9?spec=RogueAssassination&version=live&share=true
I simmed you from that log and get 1.44m DPS http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/report/f4ce4a95e2964c6b9a60dada78335394
willow pecan
Ah that's really cool
this is almost exactly as i did in game 😃
reef canyon
Yeah, AoE sims can vary dramatically based on how long the adds live.
I will probably add in a few more variations for different time-to-lives, so people can pick whichever is closest and not have to edit the script themselves.
fathom violet
AMR tells me to wear 2p t19/ 2p t20 and SIMC says 4p t20 is better...
Which one I can trust? 😄
regal agate
depends on spec and skill lvl
fathom violet
Oh sorry subtetly is the spec and skill level.. well im pretty practiced now
regal agate
simc aims to get the best rotation but amr want to fit all skill lvls
t20 4p is the better choice if you go with the currently popular DfA build, with MfD it depends on the itemlvl of your gear pieces.
manic pulsar
@regal agate I don't know where you got that idea from. AMR aims for the best rotation as well. There is nothing in AMR that reduces a player's skill level or dumbs down the rotations. The 2t19 is just a very strong set bonus, so it is close in value to 4t20 for many people's gear.
chrome eagle
Does anyone have a sim that compares relic traits for Outlaw with custom character data?
maiden cargo
"with custom character data?"
covert osprey
Does Simcraft pull what's in your inventory and tell ya what's better if ya got shit lying around?
past fern
feral crystal
or raid bots has an option for that as well, but if you have a heap of pieces you might need to be paying a fair bit via patreon because you will be running millions of iterations
full kindle
Hi guys
I'm trying to make a sim with 2 profils
But i keep getting errors
someone can tell me why ?
mellow elbow
It doesn't have to, I guess?
boreal patrol
you don't need quotes, only if you use special characters like whitespaces
maiden cargo
when using the simc wow addon, any way to see a textual/editable apl like you get when you use armory import?
i've checked out engine/class_modules but i'm guessing the appropriate way to test apl changes is not to recompile ;-)?
lofty kiln
When you sim and generate HTML report, check the "Profile" section
It has full APL in there
maiden cargo
looking
ah yeah, this table? a bit hard to use it for anything
shows it, which i nice, but its really read-only due to formatting
lofty kiln
Not the table
Or you can just grab the APL from these profiles: https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/tree/legion-dev/profiles/Tier20M
maiden cargo
yeah, i checked out that profile -- its generated with a specter
i guess i could just swap that out
thanks for the image link
can copy that, thats great
this looks disgusting
4 pt nightblade followed by pooling for 3 backstabs over 6-7s
this is after shadowblades falls, after the first dfa/dance post shadowblades
barren halo
Is it possible to write a long sequence of casts, rather than an APL?
for simc to execute?
lofty kiln
Yeah, lookup sequence and strict_sequence on the wiki
barren halo
Thank you
chrome eagle
@maiden cargo that allows you to import your character data
rustic abyss
is there a way to configure simc such that the patchwork fight never reaches the execute phase?
merry cloud
@lofty kiln hm what are you doing in rogue discord? 🤔
torn dome
Hes always been here 👌
split sorrel
@maiden cargo it's because nb felt off I guess
merry cloud
@rustic abyss you can hack it like that enemy_fixed_health_percentage=100
or use 80 to not make lego belt work whole fight 😃
full kindle
@split sorrel hi
ruby kelp
is there a way to account for the dual talent with the class ring in raidbots?
full kindle
Just wear it
lofty kiln
@merry cloud I have a rogue alt
merry cloud
@lofty kiln good choice 👍
analog root
Anyone know why sims are telling me to get more crit while I see every rogue stack mastery? current stats are 35% crit, 12% haste, 48% mastery and 10% vers. Agi > Crit > Vers ~= Mastery > Haste
maiden cargo
are you playing exsanguinate sin?
analog root
I'm playing sub
Might it be because I don't own the shoulders yet? They give 100% crit so devalues the stat am I right?
zinc pecan
you have 48% mastery as sub what
how is that possible
are you like 900ilvl with no tier sets or something
analog root
You're correct
zinc pecan
then dont worry too much about stat weighs
zinc pecan
wont make much of a difference honestly so whatever you prefer
but at higher gear levels its gonna be mastery yeah
analog root
ok thanks! so I should look at getting T20 sets asap right?
zinc pecan
yeah even 2p from nh isnt that bad
just depends on ilvl
so whatever you can get fastest
analog root
ye just did a NH hc run, got convergence and nightblooming but no tier sadly
unreal arch
!trinkets
foggy lantern
mates, where do u find new sims with leggo nerfs
regal agate
oh the ravenhold tc site. if you want to sim the nerf look at the latest pin in #subtlety
manic pulsar
I updated the AMR simulator with the legendary changes.
willow pecan
@manic pulsar are the gearing strategy for rogues updated yet?
you said there's gonna be adapative gearing or something like that
manic pulsar
@willow pecan Not yet. We have a test version done, but we're still doing some tweaks. We hope to have them up in the next few days.
flint wadi
could someone answer Wizcro's question though
I was coming here to ask it myself 😄
I'm 930 and was playing around with simcraft and it says crit to 50% basically
and mastery is way behind til that point
Perhaps the sim values smaller, more consistent crits over the occasional big crit until you have x amount of mastery?
maiden cargo
@manic pulsar Did AMR get any update for outlaw recently?
1033455 DPS with my gear on goroth heroic 420seconds fight seems a bit off
manic pulsar
@maiden cargo Well, the mantle nerf is in. Do you have a link to your character and a log? I could take a look. Lots of times players are getting higher uptime on the boss than the script because the boss stays close enough to a pillar to hit it while hiding. Also, the script doesn't take advantage of cloak of shadows to not have to run out a couple times. I'm seeing higher parsing logs have damage breakdowns closer to the training dummy script than goroth lots of times.
maiden cargo
This is my gear and on ST I use 910 Nightblooming Frond
If the script doesnt use CoS to get higher uptime it makes sense I guess
round canyon
@manic pulsar is the AMR goroth script using pistol shot when you run out?
maiden cargo
I am really willing to help on AMR for outlaw as its a great tool
round canyon
how exactly are you guys handling the running out?
maiden cargo
and shows situations closer to in game fights
@round canyon Can you run a mistress script simulation with your gear?
Mine seems quite correct
round canyon
tbh a mistress script seems pretty worthless if you can't customize it
you can run one on my if you want to loktork-blackrock
willow pecan
it does allow for customization
round canyon
fancy
manic pulsar
@maiden cargo @round canyon When you run out, you can't attack the boss for a few seconds. I think it is randomized slightly. @reef canyon knows the details of the boss scripts since she makes them. Right now melee players can't use their ranged abilities in that situation - it's on our list of tweaks to make to the simulator when we can make the time. I know that in logs outlaw rogues are doing a bit more damage because they can pistol shot while out of range to keep building combo points.
What kind of damage would you expect for that fight, saberslash? If you don't want to link one of your personal logs, you could DM it to me or link me to a different log I could compare to. Although comparing to outlaw logs is really tough because they are so random with the buffs.
maiden cargo
Yes, with bracers legendary you also try to have BtE ready with a PS proc for it
manic pulsar
Right - we'd like to simulate that kind of stuff too. We would need to add a bit more logic to the base simulator to make it work though.
maiden cargo
Mhh
round canyon
@manic pulsar and for the actual downtime is it being lowered by movement speed differences between melee?
maiden cargo
with my gear I except 1.2M
round canyon
such as grappling out behind a pillar at the last second
manic pulsar
Well, the amount of time you are out of range is configurable in the scripts, for usre.
So you could reduce the amount of time to match your personal logs.
We use an average that we see on heroic-level logs for the default scripts. And zoop offers a few variations that you can get a link to from our blog post on the script
We don't use different downtime for different specs right now, since the differences are pretty small. It's randomized to an extent.
maiden cargo
I havent killed goroth heroic as outlaw for some time now so it's not relevant to my gear
manic pulsar
Well, the boss doesn't change a huge amount from heroic to mythic, from a DPS perspective. We might create mythic versions of the bosses as well, once we have more of the fights scripted.
maiden cargo
It does change in some ways due to meteor debuff RNG
manic pulsar
Or other people could make mythic versions too, and we'll add it to the defaults.
maiden cargo
If you're playing the fight really safely the results seem to be quite correct still
But thats not efficient usage of movements and abilities
Which can be quite hard to implement in a simulator logic
manic pulsar
Agreed. It kind of all goes to how far down the rabbit hole you go.
How exact does the script need to be to give good gear advice? That's the question we try to ask ourselves.
maiden cargo
Well it has to be really precise for outlaw due to Restless Blades for example
manic pulsar
We want the random movement/downtime, but does every little trick/efficiency that top-level players use need to be modeled? Will that change the recommended gear? If the answer is yes, we will try to model it.
maiden cargo
Haste is extremely valuable in efficient usage of the spec
However with high downtime I can see a simulator telling people to get more crit and maybe...mastery?
manic pulsar
I'd like to at least implement using cloak to "bypass" a mechanic when it is available.
maiden cargo
Yes it's pretty big
manic pulsar
I know I do it, and I can often parse higher than the simulator because of it.
maiden cargo
Is the simulator using vanish bug?
manic pulsar
which vanish bug, heh?
maiden cargo
You can get 2 Ambush/ Ambush+BtE/RT
manic pulsar
I've been asked this before I believe, but I think the answer is no.
Yeah I haven't implemented that.
maiden cargo
It's pretty strong and gives higher burst in dmg window timing
manic pulsar
You have to use a stopattack macro or something to make that work, right?
maiden cargo
To sum it up tho, using CloS for infernal burning + having BtE and PS proc up for downtime is really efficient, also timing maybe, as 1:30CD on curse is kind of hard to sim sometimes
Yes you stop attack
/cast vanish
/cast ambush
/stopattack
Ambush can be replaced by any spells but you want to ambush+ambush or ambush+RT/BTE
manic pulsar
That one would be really hard to make work correctly in the simulator... at least with making the auto attacks stop. I'll have to think on that one.
maiden cargo
Yeah, it can be a good dps increase, like 20k
But its not mandatory for simulations anyway
I have noticed the frost mage goroth sims are a bit low aswell
Maybe the script makes people move too much?
manic pulsar
Ranged don't really have to move much. If you have example logs, I can take a look. A link to the WCL is best, since I can just import directly to the simulator to match it up.
maiden cargo
Hmm the length is too low I believe
heroic kills are often 3mins max
which is not realistic
willow pecan
@manic pulsar i terms of movement for rogues, after hiding, we also use shadowstep to immidiatly get back to the boss
for sin it doesn't matter much in terms of gear though
but outlaw high activity on boss matters quite a lot, so if they got grappling hook, i assume it's gonna matter
cloud socket
is there somewhere i can find sim release for this coming tuesday?>
maiden cargo
New Legendary Combo up now?
modern spruce
do nerw simc builds reflect the upcoming fixes?
regal agate
latest nightly has the changes in
proper cairn
aye just noticed 😃
but i think the stealth pull master assassin buff is not counted properly
i can fit a 5th abilty, simc doesnt
is it correct?
proper cairn
I know, on 25th
but again i can fit a 5th ability and still ahve 1.2 on mantle
more and less
regal agate
with vanish bug?
proper cairn
opener
vanish bug can last forever
on simc it's correct because 5th is used at 5.022 s
proper cairn
this is my APL
as you can see 5th is at 5.022s into opener hence no guaranteed crit
so it uses another mut before tb
before vanishing
regal agate
is this with latest nightly?
proper cairn
yes just downloaded it
regal agate
then its correct
proper cairn
yep but in reality isn't the mantle buff a bit longer than 6s ?
regal agate
mantle lasts from 0 to 5.0
no
becouse latest nightly has the nerf
but the nerf is not live
proper cairn
i mean right now i'm pretty sure it's like 6.2 or 6.3
so will it go 5.2 ?
or just 5
regal agate
also vanish bug makes it another gcd if you use it
proper cairn
yep i vanish env stop pool and go on
regal agate
vanish bug is not in simc
proper cairn
it's ok I was just curious if you could fit a 5th ability in opener or not
will change opener eventually
regal agate
you fit 5 gcd in the window on your posted pic 😉
you cant put in more then 5 gcd in a 5 sec window
regal agate
garrote-kb-rupture-mut-evenom-mut
thats 6 abilities
so ofc 6th one is not in the 5 gcd window
hollow flame
Hey , anyone who can tell me what 'pmultiplier' stands for in simcraft? could not find it on their wiki
torn dome
Check for multipliers like ns and sub
hollow flame
makes sense, tyvm
strong rune
stanrds for "premultiplier" for anyone else looking later
merry cloud
isn't it persistent multiplier?
strong rune
possibly 😄
gray flume
Is the vigor ring simming appropriately? Everything I read seems to indicate Insignia is better and the combo of Mantle/Insignia should be good (I don't have bracers yet). But every time I sim either single target or multi-target fights, simc indicates that my best combo is mantle/vigor.
And I have possibilities of mantle, cloak, Insignia, vigor, boots
willow pecan
afaik ring works correctly
what spec are you talking about though?
queen quail
any idea why simcraft shows my weapons as the base ilvl when imported from the addon and not the armory?
hollow flame
the sub apl does not apply nightblade in the opener when running dfa and no t19 2pc, also does not cycle dots at all. doubt this is intended, thoughts anyone?
sly yoke
not cycling dots is intentional i think i heard
because it is the tinest dps gain and is a lot of hassle
and most people dont do it
just specifically for sub and nightblade, obviously
regal agate
@hollow flame thats intentional, cycling dots without t19 2p is worse then doing st damage
t19 makes multidotting worth
dense palm
Hi guys. Who used this addon Aethys Rotation???
hollow flame
I see, ty for the answers (:
hallow flare
So I learned how to sim items I own but don't have equipped, is there a way to sim items I don't own?
gray flume
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oBdocAFY5s4CTnctnM9YBL
Is anyone else seeing sim results similar to this, where your results don't seem indicitive of what is being publishes as optimal? I litereally never hear anyone talk about how the vigor ring is good. And raidbots is telling me it's superior than any other option.
regal agate
reports are disabled for large simulations, so its hard to get a look at.
vigor ring can be decent so i don't see any problems here.
did you try using gloomblade with insignia it might work out well.
full kindle
@Tethyson#4425 take a look in here https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14kmzpMAt_0nR3vhZ4kjcbwJJXnxXG_sFWO2WOwoyt-4/edit#gid=0
strong gorge
Did you edit the 2 target apl?
regal agate
not recently
strong gorge
No I meant @full kindle for that spreadsheet
full kindle
@strong gorge If i edited 2 targets apl ? What you mean ?
strong gorge
To not use ShSt at 2 targets
full kindle
I didn't change anything in apl, just runing it with raidbot, set to 2 boses (and nightly this is all after nerfs)
Shoud i ?
change apl i mean ?
full kindle
Well if you want to see, i still have the gear set up i used for thoses sims
you coud see for ur self
strong gorge
lunch now
full kindle
Well you're still on my discord
strong gorge
brb
cerulean junco
simc may use backstab for 2 targets if you equip insignia
stone orchid
!guide
gray flume
@full kindle that's actually super interesting because that makes more sense based on the sims I've been running of my own gear. That sheet doesn't factor in tue change hit fix I assume?
full kindle
@Tethyson#4425 Yes is does, evrything in this spredsheet is AFTER nerfs, I've just added all sims in ST using Gloomblade as it's simming higher, you just need to scrool a bit I'ill post it again for Other rogues to see
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14kmzpMAt_0nR3vhZ4kjcbwJJXnxXG_sFWO2WOwoyt-4/edit#gid=0
dusty marlin
do anyone have the string to sim like all talent setups for sub?
hard quest
Anyone know if theres a way to possibly sim the Specter trinket with it only hitting one ghost every use. Like in a high movement fight where the boss is moved between every use
an override line or something to add?
regal agate
you can make a rough calculation from the results
untold badge
is simc build updated, I downloaded the nightly build but on the mantle tooltip it still says "lasts 6 seconds"
regal agate
latest nightly has the mantle and bracers changes
untold badge
okay thanks fuu appreciate it ❤
maiden cargo
np
regal agate
you can also use raidbots but check that its set to nightly
untold badge
yeah the tooltip still said 6, but the duration said 5
jolly venture
Were you using CoF for ravenholdt sub hotfix sims?
regal agate
there is a "Information:" section on the sims site
vagrant quail
anyone is doing a updated sims for assassination ? looks like now its better to use mantle + crown / mantle + bracers yet sims show mantle + boots as the best setup.
willow pecan
for you.
maybe
We have done sims, we have seen what's best
but i always recommend for peoplpe to sim themselves
your offpieces might weigh in a lot on what legendary is best for you
you relics may weigh in
junior hull
Ia orc still siming highest for horde ?
fair crow
So I have a 920 spectre thats simming higher than my 890 cof by 35k, and its simming higher than a 905 Cof by like 20k
Does CoF not sim properly? or is it an upgrade?
sonic spindle
Anyone got any numbers on Insignia,quietknife and gloomblade interacts now? and is it viable?
gaunt gale
@sonic spindle I did a bit on that, problem is the second you cast shuriken storm it all goes out the door. That means it only really it's worth it for true single target bosses.
sonic spindle
So should still stick with weakpoint, gutripper and energetic?
hard quest
weak point and energetic also do nothing on AOE, gutripper is the best for a variety of situations
gutripper is actually far better on AOE
gray flume
@full kindle I took the liberty of doing similar sims and graphing them out in similar fashion. I used a variety of different specs. Still need some refining of the actual spreadsheet. But my results are similar. I don't have bracers so I didn't sim with them. But mantle/vigor pulled ahead once I got passed the 4 minute zone of fight length.
solemn plaza
Quick question, Satyr's walk comes up higher on sims for me atm, how 'big' is the boss in simcraft? As in how many yards should the boss's hitbox range from the center at minimum to have the same energy refun as the sim?
...if that makes sense :/
split sorrel
@solemn plaza u can always be at max range to get 6 energy
it works even on Cenarius
and some gives more
solemn plaza
What about Sisters? That's the only one I'm not sure of
split sorrel
like Desolate in ToS
6 is the minimum you can get by being at max range
on any boss
solemn plaza
Cool, thanks! Was just unsure if I should stick to ring for consistency (simmed 500 lower)
split sorrel
it's pain in the ass to play with boots tho
solemn plaza
What? How so?
strong gorge
Being at max range causes more OOR issues if boss is moved f.ex
solemn plaza
Fair point, so I think I'll just still go for vigor ring for QoL then 😓 thanks again 😃
strong gorge
Esp if you're using DFA. It's one more focus point to spend your resources on which, depending on the user, might cause them to miss something more important
solemn plaza
I mean if I need to stand practically max range at any given time and the boss moves a lot (which a lot of bosses do) I can't be missing out on the additional energy while running after it, and for 500 dps it's not a big loss either
strong gorge
It feels like a wise choice by you
tawny chasm
raidbots alrdy up2date with the nerf?
mellow elbow
Y
sudden wharf
!trinket
feral jay
Hmm, using ElvUI I get 2 debuffs on the target when I use Nightblade? What is the second one? an 8 sec one that keeps refreshing...?
ops, wrong chat, sorry
mellow elbow
Slow
gray flume
@full kindle https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Rs3z_t1BkKsBW8I7C3y4hIVGk45xWO3ehPcGhjxe0HI/edit?usp=sharing
gray flume
Yeah
regal agate
where is mantle bracers?
gray flume
I wanted to compare across several different specs. My guild doesn't really do mythic so I was curious if things would hold up at the lower gear levels. They're actually pretty consistent.
@regal agate inside of the box labeled "Blizz hates me"
regal agate
oh ::(
slender nebula
!trinkets
next knot
This may sound dumb, but is the download for nightly builds taking a long time for anybody? I've checked on two comps and checked my net speed. So far it's saying it's a 20 min download for the remaining 36MB. Was the same two days ago for me as well
next knot
Alright cool ty fuu 😃
Yeah it finished downloading then said file was corrupt; second time for me, idk what's going on
How do I compare items on RaidBots? I did "!sim us/nordrassil/theexile -ci main_hand=fangs_of_the_devourer,id=128476,relic_id=3562:1497:3528/3561:1482:3528/3561:1507:3337,bonus_id=743,gem_id=147086/147109/147084
Relics: Befouled Effigy of Elune, Harjatan's Leering Eye, Imploding Infernal Star"
static blaze
is simc siming legos correctly after the nerf?
finite thunder
yes
gentle egret
maiden cargo
🤔
merry cloud
Sneaky af
vagrant halo
wooden marlin
vigor ring, insignia and bracers all sim within 6k dps for me. i cant imagine how bad dfa plays without (nerfed) bracers.
full kindle
@wooden marlin https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14kmzpMAt_0nR3vhZ4kjcbwJJXnxXG_sFWO2WOwoyt-4/edit?usp=sharing check it out
Beware to read what i wrote on top
rustic tundra
interesting, im now going to sim all fight duration with different gear set for myself 😄
interesting, im now going to sim all fight duration with different gear set for myself 😄
pastel sundial
where's the double ring? 🤔
http://i.imgur.com/8XdlpbH.png (for my gear)
mantle + vigor sucks for me too hard for some weird reason
full kindle
@pastel sundial more builds comming up this week and on my spredsheet
mossy hearth
trying to do some sims rn as well
whole flame
woven patrol
!LEGENDARY
final arrow
plucky mural
@manic pulsar is there documentation for adjusting opener for dummies? I'd like to mess with Sin open sequence, but im lost in the code conditions.
found this, but would like to copy.edit.
but im a code dummy
manic pulsar
@plucky mural No, not really. I have a partial reference for functions you can use in rotations here:
http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/simulator/docs/functionreference
but the actual opener is just a sub-APL that does the opener
we don't have "cast sequences" like i think you can do in SimC, so I had to implement it as a priority list
and then i combined all the openers into one.. which makes it super confusing to read
when I have more time, I want to pull apart the different assassination rotations and give them all their own rotation, to make them easier to ready
er read
plucky mural
Im using Shoulder/Belt so the open is of particular concern for me. Id love to sim the first 30sec, with a few tweaks
manic pulsar
I could try to help. 30 seconds is a long time - the opener right now basically goes for 10 seconds or so. You need an exit condition to make it switch from opener to regular rotation
willow pecan
I tried messing with the opener myself, kinda gave up after an hour when it didn't make any sense 😄
plucky mural
I could probably just use a full cast sequence in simc. and set fight length for 30sec.
molten hazel
So can any1 explain why sub boots sim higher for me than any other legendary (excluding shoulders) - using raidbots nightly.... -> https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2qFvs8Cf9ezQx3AsRAJk4E
ebon holly
Doesnt it say you used the weekly?
tough hornet
hey guys are there up to date legendary sim rankings somewhere?
finite thunder
its pinned in every channel, sim for trinkets , legendary and relics
unborn mantle
!talents
solemn plaza
@molten hazel because energy regen/refunds are really strong for dfa iirc.
Boots give an average of 6 enery back per SS cast in sims and as far as I'm told that means max range on the smallest bosses, so wih some light movement it mjght be hard... But on Goroth and the likes my guess is it might be worth it
zenith cobalt
is there a big difference between simcraft and raidbots?
lunar trout
@zenith cobalt No. Raidbots uses SimulationCraft so they have identical output.
odd sedge
but raidbots is limited to 25k iterations and that might not be enough
feral crystal
If you're not a patreon it's limited to 25k
regal agate
i am not a patreon
prisma raft
It is not limited to 25k
zinc pecan
would assume it got changed because it was 25k a few days ago
golden gulch
Does http://tc.ravenholdt.net/combinations/rogue_subtlety_t20m_hotfix.html coresponds to mantle/denial changes?
novel lava
@regal agate do you know when the nightly will be built with your latest changes? last was released 2 days ago
regal agate
you can use raidbots in the meantime it builds it every night, i dont know when next nightly will be build but should be soon
novel lava
ok, thankyou 😃
muted stump
@golden gulch yes
hardy thorn
tough hornet
in what ways is raidbots superior to using simc by itself?
i see everyone using it now
inland comet
hi guys... i am simming higher with 2T19+4T20 set bonus + bracers and new ring
than 2T19 + 2T20 bracers and shoulders (same items) 925itmlv
😥
SUB DfA
regal agate
wait for next nightly/next raidbots update we fixed a simc bug for sub and improved the vanish bug usage
void mica
is there a way to include the belt in sims because right now it's simming higher for me vs my shoulders / insig
cloud thorn
Hello, I remember seeing some roll the bones sims in early 7.2.5 (like invidual buffs and combos rankings + reroll rules) and I was wondering how to run sims like that using my character? I'm guessing some kind of custom APL is needed for that?
maiden cargo
@cloud thorn You can probably change fishing rules
Fishing only for one specific buff
Otherwise you need to change uptime in SimC code..
tough hornet
so when using AMR machine learning, do you export as stat weights to pawn or something?
or how do you decide what gear is good after
because machine learning doesnt use stat weights
although it seems like its quite good recommendations usuall
full kindle
Hi evryone, I just added some builds to my document, in case you're intrested
https://goo.gl/ciBk7C More comming to morrow with all build's information and more about my mind set
robust marten
Yo. APL is only using KJ burning wish when Shadowblades is up. it doesnt even affect the trinket since its not an auto or doesnt generate CP
how can i change it to use the same conditions as death from above
maiden cargo
can you send the line
robust marten
use_item,name=kiljaedens_burning_wish,if=(buff.shadow_blades.up&stealthed.rogue)|target.time_to_die<20
merry cloud
I think it's just default line for Sub trinkets
maiden cargo
use_item,name=kiljaedens_burning_wish,if=(buff.shadow_dance.up)
lunar trout
I assumed Mantle because other permutations (like both rings for example) where behind enough in all scenarios to make them a poor choice; I guess that's not helpful for people who don't have Mantle, but alas, I have to draw the line somewhere.
As for the trinkets, I don't think a change there would affect the results in any meaningful way (the goal is comparing the legendaries relative to each other - not to achieve the highest numbers in each scenario); moreover, as it's Patchwerk, Specter should be hitting all 2/3 targets regardless.
lunar trout
@full kindle Great minds think alike! 😉
manic pulsar
@tough hornet to answer your question re: AMR machine learning. You can click the "save and use" button on the report you made and then use it with the AMR gear optimizer to rank gear. We are going to add pawn integration soon for a quick idea if an item is possibly an upgrade.
tough hornet
@manic pulsar yeah, i figured out how to use it with the gear optimizer but i was wondering if there was a way to rank gear ingame as upgrades or not, when it drops in a raid scenario for example
pawn is useful because i can tell my guild officers this is a big upgrade for me or not right away when they hand out loot, and thats how most people use it too
perhaps with the AMR ingame addon or something?
dark obsidian
is latest nightly same build as raidbots+
regal agate
yes (currently)
manic pulsar
@tough hornet yeah, not yet. We are going to add a way to generate a pawn string from the gearing strategy for people who would like that.
half vapor
how to turn off bloodlust in raidbots?
uncut crater
Hey guys, i justed tried to sim my char with simc to get new statweights but I cant seem to get any. Is that a known Bug or am I just not smart enough to figure it out? (I did it like the tutorial said)
@half vapor go to options -> Buffs/Debuffs -> Bloodlusst
half vapor
you mean in raidbots or in simulationcraft app? because i cannot see it in raidbots options
lofty kiln
Advanced mode, add this at the top:
override.bloodlust=0
For anyone that is interested, I added "The First of the Dead" to my Subtlety legendary results. These use the latest SimulationCraft nightly as of the time of posting (29/07 - build 51ed59f): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1HsQ9DNWv2W1r-PYT6_Ssm0GQKQ65wL1hqHjarf-hPeQ
full kindle
@lunar trout put < > at the begining and the end of you're link
It will dislable the display, giving a more readable chat
analog dove
@lunar trout so am I correct in interpreting those results as showing First of the Dead as 2nd after Mantle for ST fights at or above 3 minutes in duration?
lunar trout
That's correct @analog dove (for the above scenario anyway; your mileage may vary depending on relics/gear etc).
analog dove
Alright thank you. Just verifying I was reading it right. Currently using Mantle+Gloves (Denial eludes me)
lunar trout
Yeah, it's a fine choice. Wrists are probably still prefered for the burst and since Gloves are so poor at multi-target. Personally, I also find the changes to rotation (from extra CP generation) with gloves harder to play with (and unlearn if you ever replace it).
Personally, I think the Vigor ring is the most appealing, and the increased energy cap and regen gives some major quality-of-life benefits like more Feints, Shuriken Storm and easier avoidance of capping your energy.
analog dove
I can attest to that. I definitely take the on demand max cp for granted and forget about it if I switch things up and don't wear them. Multi target fights do feel very awkward with them, at least if target count is 3+. Then again, my only other options so far are boots (same issue of no usefulness in multi), or KJBW which is just so meh. Tried pairing KJBW up with Moonglaives trinket and they work nice together on packs in dungeons but very hard to use well in ToS (i.e. Harj/Mistress/Host)