pvp

[gusty hedge]

[warped gate]

You don't like Improved BtE?

[gusty hedge]

this is pretty much what im runnin on law tree minus ks put imp bte back

[spring bough]

Never gonna use it for PvP tbh. Dont really need it. Already doing wild dmg

Feels like we need sleight

Rolls are so shit without it

[gusty hedge]

thats what i thought about ks

[spring bough]

You have to run KS for trickster tho …… 😭

[gusty hedge]

[warped gate]

I gave it a shot — when I got One of a Kind three times in a row I said fuck that shit, took it off.

[spring bough]

Yes. Yes u do lol

[spring bough]

Wym. U gave up on sleight??

[gusty hedge]

I'll try swapping imp bte for ks and see what i can do if people blow their çd trying to cc me then i can run wild with adr

[spring bough]

Are u really playing trickster without KS? You trolling or something

[outer sky]

Isnt it only good on paper because the sims assume it does all of its damage to the target you want to hit? But in reality thats not very reliable

[gusty hedge]

yeah full on builder slaps i thought u didnt take ks at all

even in pve i dnt run it

[spring bough]

Need KS for fazed/unseen blade stuffs

You don’t even let it go the full duration. Just need it for the hero talent interactions lol

[spring bough]

It’s dmg is pretty poop ngl

[gusty hedge]

ahh never really noticed since nerf tbh, ps seems to faze targets quick and random usb procs from it too

[warped gate]

Yeah.

[warped gate]

The big dick damage comes with AR and I got the talent to buff that roll.

It'd be nice to have both, but there's other attractive talents I want too.

[spring bough]

Trolling servo

[dark kernel]

I heard Trickster KS does legit lethal damage

[gusty hedge]

I thought even then u dont take it so i could be hitting harder

[warped gate]

The more I use new KS, the more I get mad they reworked KS and took away EVERYTHING that made it worth pressing.

[spring bough]

Yeah from BTE and pistol not from KS itself lol

[dark kernel]

Makes sense

[spring bough]

You could be doing way more damage lol

[gusty hedge]

cant wait to play now

[warped gate]

No staggered damage, no rootbreak, doesn't hit as hard, doesn't look as swaggy—

Targetable.

.. Was you untargetable? Or did I get that confused with Fiona ult?

[gusty hedge]

wish i saved my old pvp vids with Ks before rework

only like 4 left

[warped gate]

I felt like I was an imposter, hiding in #outlaw and watching them talk about how much they hate it.

Meanwhile I'm like, "i love this stupid button ;3".

[spring bough]

They love it they just love to hate it

We gotta hide we are doing big dam now to avoid nerfs

[gusty hedge]

prolly whats getting nerfed rn tbh

[warped gate]

It's too late, the AWC already made Outlaw pass the smell test to the FotM's.

[gusty hedge]

facts

[warped gate]

And as they're getting bored and about to move back to Sub or to Ass, yesterday's buff happened.

[gusty hedge]

ive had a few people tell me im a fotm i mustve watched awc

[spring bough]

Can’t believe outlaw is a FOTM

[gusty hedge]

they dnt knw i been outlaw my whole rogue life

[spring bough]

Actually wild we are here 😂

[gusty hedge]

fr

[spring bough]

Started the season dooming. Now we can kill in a stun

With infinite smoke bombs

Cloud cover has reinvigorated outlaw for me lolol

[grave basin]

rogues needed the buff

ofcourse

[warped gate]

Bruh..

Big same.

[fathom crag]

its not real bombs tho

ppl can heal thru

[spring bough]

I know but people think they are

Got feathers ruffled in every lobby I was in last night lol

[gusty hedge]

they still run out and stop casting

[warped gate]

I seriously don't know why they thought it was a good idea to give it the same visual clarity as a move as oppressive as Smoke Bomb.

They really just don't give a fuck about PvP no more.

[spring bough]

It’ll take a week but people will realize the bigger bomb isn’t actually smoke bomb

[stoic spruce]

I like the smoke

Very thematic for trickster

But KS....

[gusty hedge]

if they decide to give trickster double hook its over

[gusty hedge]

revert the nerf or drop cd timer to 1 min(no cdr)

[spring bough]

I honestly want old KS back. It would go so fucking insane w outlaw as it is right now. Plus CC break for these dam mages

[stoic spruce]

Check this cook

Hear me out

Unnerf RB, unnerf menacing rush, old KS

[spring bough]

And give us back evasion and feint CDR

That 1 min CD on old KS would go so crazy right now

Blades would be top dmg lol

[gusty hedge]

the ks with combo points or the ks without cp

[fathom crag]

is it true u dont need 2 points in ace up your sleeve

cus it procs anyway 100%?

[spring bough]

The one without that was ST

[gusty hedge]

its a 2 or 3% chance now instead of 5 2/2 is 6% . would still proc but rng at a lowr % doesnt look to good

[spring bough]

I think we always take 2/2 now unfortunately

[gusty hedge]

ks for me was a maged worst nightmare. nova me ok ks, they try to blink durin ks im still on them, t he y displace and im still on them

[stoic spruce]

2 ace is a lock in

More procs though

[spring bough]

Legit had 9 in a row last night

[outer sky]

And Sting

[stoic spruce]

I miss Sting more than float

Now that we have dmg

[gusty hedge]

you know what i miss

[stoic spruce]

Me

I'm here bb

[gusty hedge]

that would go crazy with cloud cover

[abstract stratus]

https://tenor.com/view/barbie-disgusted-face-eww-gif-7711708920028123366

[gusty hedge]

Crackshot cloud cover

https://tenor.com/view/andrew-cooper-andrew-dance-cooper-dance-feeling-dance-dance-gif-4719076827571292026

[stoic spruce]

Dude

Wait

Crackshot with new BtE

Would've went crazy

[gusty hedge]

[harsh kiln]

all specs trickster now?

and swap no scruples to cloud cover?

[stoic spruce]

Assa aint

[outer sky]

How it feels playing assa right now

[stoic spruce]

So true

[abstract stratus]

we chillin

[stoic spruce]

Great

[abstract stratus]

keep ur hotbox to urself

[stoic spruce]

Yeah it'll def get nerfed so we should enjoy it while we can

[gleaming sentinel]

The age of Fartlaw is upon us

[spring bough]

Yup yup

[grave basin]

na up btw

[static holly]

What did I miss? What's cloud cover

[lime oar]

u hotbox the arena and do big dam

[abstract stratus]

these daggers finally look cool with the back mogging

[static holly]

And crimson vial creates a sleepy ocean, right?

I will login and take a look

[spring bough]

Looking like ghostblades

[abstract stratus]

teehee

i didnt play at all during mage tower era so i never got them

[stoic spruce]

@outer sky do you have a shammy?

[outer sky]

Yeah but hes still only level 80

Why?

[dark kernel]

Aion2 coming out and lots of shady twitter accounts pushing it

@spring bough I hear devourer is mega cracked after yesterday

[spring bough]

Saw two in solo last night. They still die easy. But one round we left him alone and he absolutely trucked everything

[stoic spruce]

Saw a shammy with starlink in the name and thought it was you

[outer sky]

Ah yeah no not me

[spring bough]

I been starlink gaming too and shits fast asf

No more optimum cable outtages

[stoic spruce]

Yeah I've been using it for years, big fan other than when it rains and it cuts out for a bit

Or at 3:47am every night exactly it resets itself

[dark kernel]

I used to have spectrum (previously time warner) moved to frontier (Verizon)

I have 1gig speeds and can get fucking 7 gig if I wanted to fork over $200 a month

[potent pivot]

A lot of ppl play differently/have different styles of playing comps

[molten hedge]

Well it does feel like when everyone’s not covered someone just fucks up the go

Whether it be a kick, disarm, etc

[solid gulch]

is there somewhere to practice without cds ?

[potent pivot]

Not sure what you mean

[ionic crown]

is blades energy cost intended?

[spring bough]

Had 55+ mph winds a couple months ago w one of the snow storms and not one obstruction during it

[potent pivot]

…no

[spring bough]

Skill issues

[spring bough]

How is outlaw treating u today

[potent pivot]

I’m not playing it noob

[solid gulch]

like, practice an open and then i dont have to wait 3 minutes for prep to come off cd

[potent pivot]

Queue skirmishes maybe

Also as outlaw you have CDR so doing your rotation makes it come back faster

[jolly sierra]

lol what bout that mouth trickz

[solid gulch]

yeah ik was just hoping for a "creative mode" or somethin but appreciate it 🙂

[jolly sierra]

ye he is a meanie

big meanie like popo

[spring bough]

Feelings hurt button

[static holly]

https://tenor.com/view/weak-pussy-gif-20050549

[potent pivot]

Van deserves it

[spring bough]

Tf did I do 😭

[potent pivot]

He’s been trolling for the past couple weeks

[jolly sierra]

nah popo deserves it more tho

give him an oscar for trolling

[molten hedge]

If you watch AWC half the time they’re just ignoring the other dps and they do nothing lmao

[spring bough]

Sounds like what I do in shuffle

[abstract stratus]

lets disarm casters and ferals more often guys

really show them

[spring bough]

Kill before you lose 😂

[molten hedge]

Have yall noticed fire mages first global meteor before bust

Or one of the first

Not later in the bust

[potent pivot]

do you mean actual meteor, or the meteorites

[abstract stratus]

anyone have any more info on the pvp upgrade items and the drops

[potent pivot]

kinda makes sense tho cuz meteor also has periodic dmg that happens after the actual first hit

[spring bough]

All I see are frost mages

[potent pivot]

all we really know is that they rng drop from doing pvp

i've heard that they can drop from unrated, but more rarely. nothing is fully confirmed still

[abstract stratus]

was playing unrated most of last night and didnt get one so def rare if drops from that

[solid gulch]

yea i played roughly 25 rated games on sub and outlaw and got 5/5 on sub and 0 on outlaw lmfao

[potent pivot]

apparently hunters just have a bug there they take 20% less damage rn

[abstract stratus]

just kill them harder

[jolly sierra]

permafeint for rog when

[potent pivot]

so many bugs man

[molten hedge]

Yeah the meteor spell itself. The one that when it hits dead center of your target it does a shit ton of damage

[molten hedge]

In 3s? Interesting. We mostly see fire lately

Fire sub

[molten hedge]

Had a friend upgrade his wep ln

[spring bough]

In solo

[molten hedge]

Oh ya solo frost

I’m taking 3s sry

[potent pivot]

ik we can upgrade. need to know if we can upgrade crafted

[spring bough]

The invis these mages have now is so annoying

[molten hedge]

Gotcha

[river pollen]

Someone on the wow forums said he got 7 slivers

[molten hedge]

It needs to be removed for sure

[potent pivot]

ye i've seen someone get 7 slivers

[molten hedge]

And we benefit from it a lot

[spring bough]

That’s what I’m up to

Both weps upgraded tn and working on trinket after

[river pollen]

Nice

Did u get any from unratedp

[spring bough]

Haven’t see one yet from unrated

I think I got one from a rated loss or open world with warmode on. Idk which it was

[river pollen]

Guess today is solo shuffle day then

⚔️

[rough rock]

Is it only shuffle

I haven’t got a single one in blitz

[potent pivot]

if none of the ppl that crafted wep week 1 test upgrading them

then ig we're just gonna be forced to send on conq

[potent pivot]

should be all brackets

[river pollen]

In that case im gonna buy crafted chest cus my dumbass forgor to prio it last week, also cus its bugged i think

U only need 4 thing instead of 5

Heraldry or wtv

[potent pivot]

last week most ppl did insignia

[potent pivot]

wut

[river pollen]

Ahhh rip

Saw it here i think it might not apply to the leather https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofpvp/comments/1sso3zi/i_found_a_cool_trick_to_save_some_conquest_this/?solution=fe690459d82afd65fe690459d82afd65&js_challenge=1&token=bbbe4bf1c9a2b5160829c4be34da5861111b7c22b12f77ab86d9de6c84aa824e&jsc_orig_r=&share_id=0mwIRTTh2YQPmwtEsbzUX&utm_content=2&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1

Wait thats leatherworking too

Is it the 1 stat one

[potent pivot]

there is no 1 stat chest

[potent pivot]

thats the mail chest

also surprising they STILL haven't fixed that

in tww we had a cheaper leather craft for like a week before it got fixed

[river pollen]

Some mail-wearing dev is behind this

[gusty hedge]

blocked

[static holly]

Got 2. Did 8 games or so

[river pollen]

That dev is behind that too

[gusty hedge]

i died in a stun vs a rogue earlier

https://tenor.com/view/scream-loud-scream-girl-kid-hispanic-girl-gif-3761151244536557927

[abstract stratus]

time to one shot people with frost dk

[potent pivot]

somehow blizzard broke dejacharacterstats

[spring bough]

Ellese updates conflicted with it so I deleted the addon lol

[static holly]

Yeah, saw that. Super annoying

[spring bough]

Ellesemere just Dom’s all addons now

[potent pivot]

ye i haven't been using elles yet

was trying to wait until it had everything i wanted

also

[rough rock]

[potent pivot]

finishing at 6+ gets annoying with Ace

feels great when you get hella 6+ procs back

but when you get 5cp refunds and you have to ss between every bte

[gleaming sentinel]

lol

Or when you get the refund but it’s a little delayed and you already hit a global

[spring bough]

I may have sent BTE a few times last night at 5. Auto refunded to 5. And I did it like 5-6 times in a row

[potent pivot]

yea i mean i can see doing that on purpose on certain situations

[spring bough]

This mage was like 15% and I’m like F building just die and bro got smoked lol

[potent pivot]

like if someone is almost dead

just slam

[spring bough]

That’s what happened lol

[potent pivot]

yea

having to ss between just feels so wrong

[spring bough]

15% mage got slammed with like 9 consecutive BTEs. First couple were builders in between and last ones were just consecutive BTEs

[potent pivot]

but i've only played outlaw heavily when it was like

1 builder -> finisher usually

[spring bough]

Yeah now it’s like 2-3 builders depending on roll

[potent pivot]

after SL outlaw has become an amalgamation of someone that doesn't know what they're doing design wise

think ill be getting my 80-90 afk done tn after work

i could just pivot my high haste nelf sub into law but that feels scuffed

[spring bough]

I might drop some verse gems / enchants and get closer to 25% haste

[potent pivot]

i'm going to go 25% haste then crit most likely

between 20-25% vers

[spring bough]

I’d be like 21 or 22% verse if I went to 25% haste and that’s with flickering steel

I think the fazed dmg reduction makes up for it tbh

[potent pivot]

How much crit?

[spring bough]

Think I’m around 17-18 crit

Ellese wasn’t updating for PvP stats last night. Can check when I get home

[molten hedge]

@potent pivot I tested the build you linked in kalvs cord for sub trickster. I haven’t gotten 4 set yet is that why it doesn’t feel insane

Ik you said Nahj was trucking ppl

[potent pivot]

I’m not sure if Nahj was playing the full crit build

I assume he was playing the regular build

The crit build is more of something for us to test

Cuz if u crit ur strikes it could be massive af

[potent pivot]

Are you doing the apex optimization

[molten hedge]

Maybe I was hitting harder than I thought but bc I’m playing with a fire mage it was hard to tell.

[molten hedge]

No I thought we said they weren’t doing it in PvE anymore rly

[potent pivot]

They are for supercharged evis

But

[molten hedge]

Into rmp I play double vanish bc they like to go me a lot

[potent pivot]

You wouldn’t want to do the optimization anyway if the strikes are big enough

Cuz you’d WANT to clone the strikes not the evis

I need to test it more tho and see what strike crits are hitting for

[molten hedge]

But isn’t supercharger for spenders how would you supercharge a builder

[potent pivot]

Re read what I said

[spring bough]

I was doing my trick build with lethality/cold blood last night and pistol was going BRRRRRTTTTTTTT

[potent pivot]

Hard to say if that’d be worth overall

Prolly fun tho

[spring bough]

Pistol always in my top 3 abilities

That with heavy hitter was slapping

It’s like pistol/bte/sinister/autos almost always rounding out my top dmg

[potent pivot]

Apparently you can KS on 5 now as well btw

Since we just cancel it most of the time anyway

[quick temple]

whats it matter how many points you spend on killing spree

if u cancel it anyway

[potent pivot]

You only cancel it to stop from overcapping energy

Sometimes you sit the full KS

[quick temple]

ah word, i been jus letting it go cus ppl react weird

[potent pivot]

It still does dmg and builds combo points etc

[quick temple]

think they'll die to it

[spring bough]

Half the time I press KS I don’t even get back to full energy before it’s done. And I just end it with a finisher anyways lol

[spring bough]

KS does garbage dmg unfortunately

[quick temple]

i know, i was messin wit trickster a lot before the buff

i liked big pistol shots too, woulda been nice with greenskins

[spring bough]

Unseen blade does really good dmg I’m impressed with it

[quick temple]

yer, i like the sound efx

[spring bough]

Oh my if they could only replace fast action with GSW

@stoic spruce thoughts?

[gleaming sentinel]

Idk about that. You ramp bte as Kidney is coming off cd then hit em with the kidney bomb spree

[potent pivot]

Make blunderbus legendary a talent man

[spring bough]

Idk feel like everytime I hit KS health bars just stayed stationary lol

[spring bough]

RIP bussy

[potent pivot]

@grave basin yeah "surv is trash" btw

bee tee dubz

[quick temple]

put evasion back on RB

https://youtu.be/9_p3g85lYDw

[potent pivot]

wtf is this, mop?

[quick temple]

SL

[potent pivot]

thats shadowlands?????

[spring bough]

Nerf survival can’t be having them do more dmg than rogues

[quick temple]

yea i been an outlaw fan for a min lol

[potent pivot]

LOL your UI is terrible i'm sorry

[spring bough]

Don’t take that from him smh

[quick temple]

yea i had a lot of casino UIs in SL

[potent pivot]

it was mainly just the old style bars that threw me off

[spring bough]

I like how wowhead puts out a bug list and outlaw is left out

[dark stump]

i require a screen with a monk or frost mage lobby

what was the 3rd rogue spec ?

nvm triple outlaw

[potent pivot]

so was hunter

[potent pivot]

lmao all the comments are rogue bugs

outlaw/sub CD spending 30 energy, stealth not making a sound, assa apex still not tracking correctly in the CDM...

[spring bough]

Stealth not making a sound needs a hotfix immediately

[potent pivot]

is distract just... not working for outlaw? lmao

nvm i think it is

[quick temple]

stealth not making a sound idk, kinda...tracks?

[potent pivot]

its always made a sound

[quick temple]

lol obv

idk if you're getting back at me for telll you energy classes have a 1s gcd

[spring bough]

The outlaw boys were saying make sure it’s not on CD before pressing ADR

[grave basin]

michael jordan of sv hunters dont count

but sv is much better now yea

on more

[gusty hedge]

ima test my ho build on u >:)

[potent pivot]

naw just misunderstood what u said ig idk

[grave basin]

man queues are POPPING

[spring bough]

HO??? wtf timeline are we on

[grave basin]

everyone wants thier silvers

sub 5min queues 10x in a row

[spring bough]

I’m afraid to Que solo shuffle again

I don’t wanna lose rating now 😂

[grave basin]

download this addon called silentcr

blanks out your cr

so you can play the game

for f u n

[spring bough]

lol

[grave basin]

all i see is this

[spring bough]

Nah I’d go insane

[proven kayak]

Literally

[quick temple]

is a ho ass build supposed to be good or bad lol

[gusty hedge]

Figured they are builders?

[quick temple]

oooh

hidden opportunity

[spring bough]

HO is bad now like bad bad

[quick temple]

i thought he was saying Hoe

[spring bough]

They changed it a bit with opportunity it just not worth it

[gusty hedge]

felt good tho

bad damage

[quick temple]

ye i tried a trickster HO build with lethality

def funn but ye bad

[gusty hedge]

i should try that , was running double vanish

[quick temple]

imp ambush, flick steel, full crit

should be a build just bad tuning

especially since it gimps opportunity procs

[gusty hedge]

full haste build ambush didnt even make the cut

[rough rock]

Maybe I just gotta do shuffle cause I ain’t getting anything from blitz

But I’m so close to 2100 lmao

[grave basin]

[spring bough]

Lethality might be the play even for regular trick build 👀

[spring bough]

Lethality or no

[spring bough]

Yes

[gusty hedge]

def! swapped back to it last 2 weeks when i heard bodymassage was bullying people with it

[gusty hedge]

double vanish vigor

[harsh kiln]

Is there a trick to using preparation?

or just whenever you need cds back

[spring bough]

I just send it off the bat

[proper vortex]

Just keep gaming man. In blitz you WILL hit your goal.

[spring bough]

First setup I use my first ADR the second it comes off CD I make sure Blade Rush KS and BTE are on CD then send prep into ADR rush and so on

[potent pivot]

you don't have to worry about Prepping KS

[harsh kiln]

you're supposed to play KillingSpree aswell?

[potent pivot]

you can prep insta while still in ADR

[potent pivot]

as trickster you have to yes

[harsh kiln]

aight

[spring bough]

Yeah or u lose 2 hero talents

[harsh kiln]

doesn't matter because i have no weapon for outlaw anyway xD

[potent pivot]

i would prep right after BR/BtE

[quick temple]

why not?

[potent pivot]

just isn't important

[spring bough]

I wish hitting the second ADR added time to the buff u already have instead of starting at 15. I’ve wasted some seconds on ADR by popping prep early

[quick temple]

refreshing unseen blade icd and flawless form uptime tho?

[proven kayak]

Can I take the item for weap upgrade from 2s / blitz ?

[quick temple]

that doesnt really answer my question

why just cut uptime on your most important procs

[potent pivot]

ye u get them from any rated for sure

[potent pivot]

they're already insanely high uptime

[quick temple]

eh

[potent pivot]

it is more important to reset the other CDs faster

100%

getting Prep and ADR back on CD is always highest prio

[quick temple]

ah from a shuffle pov im not getting 2 preps off anyway

[spring bough]

I wish prep was on restless

[vale steppe]

can i get those in normal bgs? i dont wanna q real games on my mac on work lol

[spring bough]

Outlaw would be so insane with prep on restless

[potent pivot]

yes but you will get multiple ADRs

[grave basin]

No clue, im a shuffle andy

[quick temple]

but being able to swap faze or maintain 5x flawless form longer seems important too

[potent pivot]

supposedly they're very rare from non rated, but we have zero confirmation of that, so

[grave basin]

I heard blitz is fast

[potent pivot]

just a random chinese post

[vale steppe]

guess i give it a shot, ill pump blitz and shuffle tmrw, ill update u on normal bgs xd

[potent pivot]

you are much better of q'ing rated and not testing it ngl

[grave basin]

Theres like 4more months of the season

Who cares about cr now

Just q

[vale steppe]

like i said, im on my macbook on work, i aint queing on this xd

[potent pivot]

ohhh

[potent pivot]

i just don't think its worth

KS is just dog

[harsh kiln]

can someone link the outlaw build?

found it in the pins

[spring bough]

Try something like this. The 1/2 dispatcher point u can move to sleight. Supercharger talents can do vanish ones instead or lethality/CB

Can shift defts point around too

Can move finding OPP point too

[dark kernel]

Ia trickster actually better than fatebound again?

Or are we just testing water

[spring bough]

13% ahead yes

By far better

[potent pivot]

Ye

[dark kernel]

Noce

[spring bough]

Come back to the yellow names

[dark kernel]

I plan to when I have gear

I'm super super time constrained irl

Probably means my last season is a wash too

[quick temple]

is acrobatic strikes really that important

[spring bough]

Yeah auto attack dmg one of our top abilities. The movement speed is nice too

[severe helm]

need short blind dog

with range on blind

stam is infinitely less value than that

[spring bough]

Makes me feel comfy

[quick temple]

yea i like 2/2 dispatcher

[severe helm]

yeah imma try something like that too though essentially swap SD for KiR for shuffle

short range long cd blind is awful

thats like inting to not take

drop deft for it if you must

[spring bough]

Deft too good tho for some fast CPs

[vale steppe]

eh idk that stam talent is roughly 100k hp..

[severe helm]

no

deft is not better than SHORTER CD BLIND

bruv

[severe helm]

it is definitely not 100k hp

[potent pivot]

[quick temple]

feel like imp blind is one of the appeals of outlaw

skipping it seems like a sin

[severe helm]

its 5%

we would need to have 2mil hp

for 5% to be 100k

[quick temple]

its 15%

[spring bough]

Isn’t it 15% in PvP lol

[potent pivot]

its not 5% in pvp

[severe helm]

I thought that was a tooltip bug

and it doesnt give that much still

[potent pivot]

no

[quick temple]

the bug says 54% lol

[spring bough]

Tooltip says 54% but for PvP it’s 15%

[potent pivot]

the tooltip says 54% in pvp

[severe helm]

LOL

[vale steppe]

447k to 527,

[severe helm]

but yeah id still drop deft for short cd blind

[vale steppe]

77k pardon me man

[severe helm]

the range on blind is also giga

[spring bough]

Ig. Got me duelist with that build 🤷‍♂️

[severe helm]

blind is very strong rn

[vale steppe]

77k hp is kinda alot

[severe helm]

could have been higher

[spring bough]

🤣

[harsh kiln]

The instant ragebait xD

[severe helm]

just facts

[outer sky]

The stam talent is ~75k hp thats pretty good lol

[severe helm]

then drop deft idc

yall got fury war brains

not running shorter blind

[vale steppe]

No listen to @severe helm he knows 🙂

[severe helm]

I do

[vale steppe]

5% LOL

" you need 2 mil hp "

[severe helm]

id take short blind over 75k hp too

but you dont have to make that choice

you can take it over deft

[vale steppe]

you dont even know what the talents does, so id say youa re not a reliable source 😉

[severe helm]

suit yourself

not running short blind rofl

[outer sky]

Ngl last season in blitz that extra 15% hp legit won me several games when I had to FC

Id be at like 5% before my MW gets cocoon off on me

Without that talent id be dead

[spring bough]

Already got reduced blind CD from trickster hero talents

[potent pivot]

he might not be up to date with little pvp modifiers like that but i assure you he's got enough xp to have a noteworthy opinion here

unfortunately

[severe helm]

Nah I'm bad and wrong

Ignore me

Carry on

[vale steppe]

You were wrong tho

say you were wrong

[severe helm]

I just did

Read better

[spring bough]

Ima scroll up and find your comments about running deft 🔍

[vale steppe]

ok you are forgiven

[spring bough]

Swear u said u were running it the other day

[severe helm]

I was

On fatebound

Now we're down some talents

I also wasn't running HH as fatebound

But trickster values it more

So have to shuffle stuff around

[potent pivot]

i want all the fking talents

damnit slizzard

[severe helm]

It's a good problem to have

[outer sky]

Peak game design is when every spec has this problem imo

[severe helm]

Yeah I like changing talents every match

[potent pivot]

the illusion of choice

[severe helm]

Depending on what I'm facing and stuff

But in this case I think the decisions were a little better with fatebound

[potent pivot]

personally i don't like deft

i like almost everything else

[severe helm]

Yeah I just feel like it helps trickster since it has problems with CP gen

Compared to fatebound

The energy cost on deft is so shit

Can't believe they added that

[potent pivot]

oh and i don't like kir

now that container theory is gone

[spring bough]

CP gen felt ass last night with anything other than a 2+ roll

[severe helm]

I mean yeaaaah

That's why I also want sleight hahaha

[spring bough]

It felt great running sleight

I ran a few without it and it was awful

[vale steppe]

im not giving up sleight

[abstract stratus]

outlaw shooting from bottom 5 to top 10 is a def nerf omen

[severe helm]

What'd you drop for it

SD?

[spring bough]

Dispatcher wasn’t running it at all

Also wasn’t running KIR

[severe helm]

So you're running sleight over KiR

My brain can't take that one lol

[spring bough]

Yup lmao

Idk man it works

[severe helm]

Yeah I feel you

[spring bough]

Dont even think about it it just works lol

Second I went to sleight I rolled 3 rolls on the first 3 rounds of the lobby I did it on 😂

[quick temple]

jus sounds like confirmation bias lol

like wouldnt loaded die + Kir be more consistent?

[spring bough]

Idk I’ve ran it all. Sleight with KIR probably the best

[vale steppe]

@spring bough isnt it worth running imp BTE now since it reset so much?

[spring bough]

Pretty sure the crit dmg is bugged in PvP

[vale steppe]

ayt

[lime oar]

3 bgb wins in a row not a single sliver

what is this game

[rough rock]

its worse now

its up to 42 seconds or something around that

[vale steppe]

41

[severe helm]

Yeah I'm just thinking from the perspective of win conditions

Getting a blind in before CDs cycle around can have very high value

[rough rock]

yeah thats true

Its fun in blitz ive used to cap against some pet classes

not having 4 hooks feels bad i will say

[vale steppe]

how u do that with 3 sec blind

[rough rock]

kidney main, vanish cheap pet

[spring bough]

That’s with airborne AoE blind

[quick temple]

yall dont play gouge?

[rough rock]

yeah ik, just feels bad to lose hook cd since we lose 2 hooks

[spring bough]

I haven’t played gouge in 2 xpacks

[rough rock]

but idk i gotta play with it more

[quick temple]

wild

i've loved gouge since vanilla

[spring bough]

Ever since some mage lit me up for gouging a healer I was like fuck it I’m done lol

[vale steppe]

what have that to do with blind? xD

[quick temple]

if its from trauma that makes sense

[vale steppe]

you said you run aoe blind to cap vs hunters in blitz, and you said you kidney and cheapshot, where does the blind come in

[rough rock]

oh thats true

probably should have mention i did it against a lock since they never sit right on flag

[vale steppe]

ah blind smoke

thats a fair point

does it take the invisible succo tho?

[rough rock]

uhh the one i did it against had the fel dog thing

that one node where they can sit up and set their point up there

[vale steppe]

i just dont see how blind talent is better than gouge

in anyway ever

[rough rock]

back in beta when the cooldown was like 24 seconds it felt way better

[vale steppe]

yeah that was crazy good

[rough rock]

basically had a ranged gouge that did blackjack

[spring bough]

18 seconds first week or so of the season

[vale steppe]

i played it always then, but now after the first nerf, idk

[rough rock]

yeah 42 seconds is wild

[vale steppe]

that was stupid good, 50% blackjack uptime lol

[spring bough]

Feels too long for just a 3 sec duration idk

[rough rock]

idk how you play without either

[vale steppe]

specially when you can gouge blind sap still you loose that long cc chain

[abstract stratus]

pretty similar to dk blind but thats a 1 min cooldown

[severe helm]

Wasn't that the aoe

[rough rock]

yup

[severe helm]

Yeah I agree

Gouge is so good I feel

Esp after the change to not break on damage

[alpine scarab]

Does conq cap reset weekly?

[spring bough]

Goes up 800 conq every week till they remove the cap

[alpine scarab]

Ohh right ty

[sleek arrow]

Hmm if anyone familiar with Blitz, how do you pick stealth detection->into sap? Since you're thrown out of stealth

Happend to me but cant make macro work

[spring bough]

Almost time to Que up some blitz

[gilded gulch]

gouge is fun to make casters mald

when they try to juke you

and they just get gouged instead

[potent pivot]

Subterfuge

[alpine scarab]

What’s good about gouge? Learning pvper here

[sleek arrow]

Hmm I have that and didn't work..

[rough rock]

please dont

let me enjoy being number 12 for just one more day

[spring bough]

I’m only like 1700 on blitz 😭

[outer sky]

I'll be queueing up some outlaw blitz pretty soon

[rough rock]

go fuck yourself

[outer sky]

probs gunna gear one of my 4 rogues for outlaw

[rough rock]

i have bled for 200 games

itll take you fuckers like 15 to beat me

[potent pivot]

Were you in combat

[spring bough]

Fotm 🤣

[spring bough]

I’m only like 15 rating behind in shuffle. Just a nice 4-2 👀

8** behind lol

[potent pivot]

It’s just CC

nothing particularly special

[sleek arrow]

Nah, just noticed I had "cleartarget" in the macro, now it works

[potent pivot]

I don’t think you “need” macro to do it

[vale steppe]

i miss fatebound

is there anyone that actually feel trickster is better?

[potent pivot]

It is 100% better

[vale steppe]

yurk

[spring bough]

It’s by far better

[vale steppe]

only thing i like is to press KS in cloud

i miss double hook

[sleek arrow]

no way, 150k instant from dh

[outer sky]

Oh yeah I guess playing Trickster is a pretty big mobility nerf for Outlaw

I didnt even think about that

[gilded gulch]

that comes after voidray

you can probably feint it though

[molten hedge]

I got fkn smoked by a ret ln bro 80-0d me in .7

All his hammers hit me for 60 or 70k 4 of em

https://www.twitch.tv/venruki/clip/HumbleDirtyHeronTwitchRaid-1DtaugocJUFqEbuB

Listen to this clip I got yday. Halfway thru vanguards makes a VERY INTERESTING comment 💀

[frozen walrus]

Trickster is by far better than Fate on Outlaw now?!

[spring bough]

Yup

[frozen walrus]

Interesting. If you don't mind me asking, what has changed? The smokeclous thing was THAT big of a buff?

[spring bough]

It was lol

[frozen walrus]

Damn. KS just feels so bad. Very rarely do I feel good pressing it and getting the whole thing channeled.

[lime oar]

VERY interesting coming from him

[potent pivot]

+10% is pretty massive

[dark kernel]

The thing is it's per stack. And I honestly don't know how many stacks were getting

[potent pivot]

Huh

I’m saying trickster is now 10% ahead of fatebound

[dark kernel]

Oh for outlaw. I was simply talking about the new cloud coverage talent. Everyone keeps talking numbers on how big a buff it is, but because it's up time is questionable in pvp I don't really know how to quantify it

[potent pivot]

It’s not questionable at all

The buff lingers for 10sec after the cloud fades

You can dip back into it if target moves

[ocean thunder]

where can i find what changed with addons? I can't see the UI that I had to show silence on my target and stun etc

[potent pivot]

Not much has changed at all

[jagged quiver]

the thing is, the changes are really impactfull, more in pve than pvp, but still a buff to pvp playing as trikster. (i think we dont need to take KS in pvp btw)

[potent pivot]

You have to update all of your addons if you haven’t already done that

[potent pivot]

You do need to take it

[fathom crag]

full blue

gear

[potent pivot]

[molten hedge]

Oh is that how it works? So say I kidney then ADR but they insta trinket and run out. I have how long and then I step back in it?

I didn’t test much yet

[jagged quiver]

because of the trickster talent tree buff?

[potent pivot]

Ye

[potent pivot]

Cloud lasts 10sec

[jagged quiver]

hmmmmmm

[potent pivot]

You can’t play trickster without KS

Like that’s legit nonnegotiable

[spring bough]

BIG DAM

[vale steppe]

Just spec out of gravedigger, might be redundant

[lone jasper]

and went afk in last match 🙂

after match wrote to me

whats wrong with this people

[molten hedge]

I’m assuming rotation is in outlaw faq

With the cloud shit?

[potent pivot]

Wha

[vale steppe]

yeah

[potent pivot]

Not much changes. Trickster finishes on 6+, can KS on 5 though. Cancel KS before capping energy.

KS is lower prio than BtE/BR

[potent pivot]

Joking or

[vale steppe]

i mean ye kinda but

still

if we get resets with bte so often

im gonna try whaazz 3/4 atleast, and put a extra point idk where yet

[spring bough]

idk @gusty hedge was doing it lol

[potent pivot]

The more resets the better

[vale steppe]

i dont agree with you, i do think whaazz have a point, it feels reduntant, since we pretty much want whole tree, i feel its a good talent to drop

[potent pivot]

Yeah just drop one of the strongest talents on the tree

[vale steppe]

You really think so?

[frozen walrus]

What is the build Whazz is running?

[potent pivot]

Yes

[vale steppe]

I mean ive trusted u before so i will trust you again

you know whats up so

[potent pivot]

Whaazz does some extremely questionable shit sometimes

[vale steppe]

idk what he run now but i saw he was playing 3/4 gravedigger before idk

ye ig

[spring bough]

not playing gravedigger is just idk troll asf?

[frozen walrus]

@potent pivot @spring bough What are you gus running?

[potent pivot]

Half of the time he will even say himself he isn’t sure about XYZ

[vale steppe]

Are you playing pinned build?

[potent pivot]

The pinned build, there’s a couple tweaks that can be made to it and still do very well as well

[spring bough]

testing this out tn... can move KIR, blind talent, finding opp talent. can move lethality/CB to supercharger or vanish. id do whatever feels good tbh

[potent pivot]

Like playing Sleight can be good, others say Deft can be good

[vale steppe]

I NEED SLEIGHT OF HAND

Also single vanish seems bad

[potent pivot]

Alright used to be really shit, I need to test it more though

I always feel like I’m fine getting good rolls without it tho ngl

[frozen walrus]

I def dont liek double vanish build

[vale steppe]

I feel like a warrior without it

[spring bough]

pistol doing so much dmg

lethality feels good with it esp with trickster

[frozen walrus]

Does the Flickering Steel dmg bonus effect Unseen Blade dmg?

[spring bough]

i dont believe so but need it for energy purposes with trickster

[vale steppe]

I need one damn talent to get Sleight

Sum dispatch seems like a one point wonder

[potent pivot]

Can drop acro for it

Idr if pinned has it I think it does

[vale steppe]

30% autohit dmg feels strong

[frozen walrus]

Is Ace really worht it now

[potent pivot]

Afaik they drop acro for sleight in pve in cleave

[potent pivot]

Yes

[solid gulch]

Lot of these builds i see u guys not running gouge? i tried it but i feel like i have no cc since i cant cheap really more than 2 times either

[potent pivot]

Who isn’t running gouge

[solid gulch]

new player so lmk the tech but i feel like i cant lock down healer if i dont have gouge

[frozen walrus]

Surprised you arent runnin Sum Dispatched?!

SEems like a huge dmg loss

With Coup

[solid gulch]

i thought there was another tree in here yesterday, maybe it was vancleefs as well

[potent pivot]

Yeah idk that’s troll

[spring bough]

feel like i hear cold blood pop up every other press lol

[potent pivot]

Rather than build what we really need to be talking about is stats

[vale steppe]

This patch talent tree with be hard to find the best. So many options and opinions

[potent pivot]

I bet most of you are running giga vers like awc guys

[vale steppe]

Bless us with the go to pls

[potent pivot]

25% haste > crit

[vale steppe]

Vers?

[potent pivot]

Don’t go below 20% vers at the very minimum, a little more if you actually feel squishy

[frozen walrus]

Whos not stacking Haste and Vers?

[vale steppe]

I’m at 30% it feels good Imo

[potent pivot]

People with brains

[frozen walrus]

Nice response. Instead, could you try and give a productive one with insight?

[potent pivot]

Just unnecessary and crit is a lot stronger for dps

Especially for trickster

[vale steppe]

No dps if you are dead

[potent pivot]

Trickster is already tankier than fb

[potent pivot]

You don’t need 30% vers to live games on ladder

[frozen walrus]

Trickz you are stacking Crit over vers and haste?

[vale steppe]

Why not, i love it

[potent pivot]

No

[solid gulch]

another noob question here, where are u guys looking when ur talking about these stats ? im fully geared with haste+vert and both of my stats are 18%

[potent pivot]

More damage means you win faster

[spring bough]

im sitting at 16 crit 21 haste and 24 verse at pvp ilvl

[potent pivot]

I just said a minute ago

[vale steppe]

That seems low?

[potent pivot]

25% haste > rest crit but don’t go below 20% vers

That’s not exactly “stacking” in any sense of the word

[vale steppe]

How much crit would that even give us

[severe helm]

not much

[potent pivot]

Not much ye

[severe helm]

iiwii

[frozen walrus]

lol

That was my thought too

I am at 22 haste and 27 verse

[potent pivot]

Still better than what everyone else is running

[frozen walrus]

Not much room for Crit

[potent pivot]

100%

[frozen walrus]

Even if I wanted to

[vale steppe]

Idk let’s say i swap boots, wrist and head from full vers to vers crit, 4% crit?..

[severe helm]

yeah

[gleaming sentinel]

If you started as sub and are now going outlaw just know I am judging you

[severe helm]

gearing is never going to be night and day difference

[potent pivot]

Any bit you can put into crit will be WAY more valuable then vers for dmg

[vale steppe]

Those 4% crit vs 4% dmg seems more consistent but I’m not gonna go against you

[potent pivot]

Because you may be misunderstanding how stats work

[severe helm]

well its not 4% damage

crit per point is going to give you more damage than vers

[vale steppe]

Imma check soon, I can swap around and test

[severe helm]

also vers has diminishing returns even not considering the actual secondary stat dr system

going from 0 to 10% vers is 10% more damage

[severe helm]

but going from 10% to 20% isnt 10% more damage

[vale steppe]

We’re not up there, dr for vers is 1600+

[spring bough]

@gleaming sentinel get cooked lmaooo

[severe helm]

yeah im saying not even at that dr

it still diminishes

[gleaming sentinel]

LOL

[jolly sierra]

OOOOOOOOOOOOF

[spring bough]

brb deleting old messages i sent

[jolly sierra]

guys are getting cancelled

[gleaming sentinel]

That wasn’t me

[severe helm]

but yeah its hard to put a value to how much damage 4% crit gives us

[vale steppe]

How come where can I see this

[runic laurel]

[severe helm]

its not seeing it its just how the math works

going from 1.1 multiplier to 1.2

is not a 10% increase

its 9.1%

[rough rock]

played against an outlaw wilth 450k hp

[vale steppe]

I get that

[rough rock]

buddy died real fast

[severe helm]

thats all im sayin

[vale steppe]

I understand that math

[rough rock]

vers on top

[gleaming sentinel]

Fuckin wrekt

[severe helm]

I havent done the math yet on how much damage value our crit is

with the pvp modifier

[vale steppe]

Imma do some tinkering myself, Im the guy that running full vers gear in sub even

[severe helm]

but tbh I personally think small differences like this dont change too much

[vale steppe]

I just like vers

[severe helm]

yeah at the end of the day its a small factor

[potent pivot]

It won’t change things like a crazy amount

But it’s definitely more dmg

[severe helm]

thats my gut feeling I just havent proven it yet

[potent pivot]

Especially as trickster

[spring bough]

minimal change? do what makes yall happy w stats lmaoo

[severe helm]

trickster builder damage bonus is insane

[vale steppe]

Yee

[severe helm]

idk if the pvp crit damage modifier applies before or after the trickster crit damage bonus on builders

if its before

then crit is giga

if its after then crits good but not insane

[potent pivot]

The 150% increased crit damage on builders is ridiculously strong

[frozen walrus]

I am actually tempted to not take KS

Would rather have more Dispatch dmg

[rough rock]

having more hp than a sub means i get to live for 2 shadow dances instead of 1 xD

[vale steppe]

Seems troll

[potent pivot]

You’d be trolling yourself

[severe helm]

no KS in pve is a 2% damage loss

so ngl

[potent pivot]

If you don’t want to play KS, you play fatebound

[severe helm]

its borderline droppable

[rough rock]

what

[severe helm]

trickster is ahead of fatebound even if you drop KS

lol

[rough rock]

are you not calculating flawless form

[severe helm]

fatebound sucks now

[severe helm]

you sit at max flawless always

they changed how it works

so you just have perma uptime on 5 stacks

it doesnt stack past 5 anymore

[rough rock]

wtf

[severe helm]

its not a rolling buff like it was in tww

[rough rock]

i didnt know that

[severe helm]

it just stacks to 5 then refreshes

KSes primary value is the 2 free UB procs

which do hit decently hard

and build towards coup

so more cdr etc etc

but other than that its not much

[rough rock]

is it another fucked up stacking counter like bte and gravdigger

or does it actually work

[severe helm]

no

its a normal buff

thats how it used to be

[rough rock]

ah okay

[severe helm]

like bte

now its just a buff that caps at 5 stacks

and just refreshes

[potent pivot]

[severe helm]

when you proc it again

[rough rock]

need to work on a addon to track that ngl

[severe helm]

dont need too

its 100% uptime

you ignore it

[rough rock]

im talking about for BTE and gd

[severe helm]

oh yeah

bte tracking could be useful

[potent pivot]

KS also lets you insta swap fazed

And applies it to all targets no?

[rough rock]

uhh idk

i thought only main target (first hit) gets 2 while the others get 1

[potent pivot]

Ik for sure it lets you insta swap

Idr if it cleaves it

That might only be during cloud

And if you swap then you still have it up on the original target as well

[frozen walrus]

IMO the only reason to use KS, is to get the two free Unseen Baldes

And you can ltierally cancel it right after casting

[potent pivot]

It still builds combo points and does “damage”

[frozen walrus]

Does dmg is meh

And SS buld combo points and does more dmg

[runic laurel]

You could bait cc on yourself to free yourself up for later

[quick temple]

where yall seeing this

[quick temple]

huh

KS damage isnt that low

[vale steppe]

Swapping Head, Wrist and boots from 100% vers to vers crit is roughly 3-4% crit, and -5% vers

[final dew]

yoyo - dumb question as always, but all my addons are out of dat. DO i really need to remove them, replace the zips in addons folder with the new version?

[vale steppe]

bro download cursedforge godsake, we are in 2026

[final dew]

and also, did sub get nerfed further or am i ultra booty today?

[quick temple]

like how is this bad if its letting you regen energy and build cp

[frozen walrus]

The raw dmg from the tooltip is great

But the fact that it hits EVERYTHING is tough for PVP

Very rarely is it 1v1

Even hits pets

[quick temple]

yea true

if you iso someone tho its fine

[spring bough]

3 more damn random boxes to go for this t2 void set

[quick temple]

otherwise the procs are all i care about from ks

[final dew]

if i dl curseforg now, will all my addon settings keep? normally pretty wary of connecting things like that.

has anyone reviewed the integration configuration and EULA in detail?

[frozen walrus]

The question is, are the procs from KS worth losing 10% dmg on dispatch?

[quick temple]

idk why it doesnt aoe with bladeflurry and does ST otherwise

[vale steppe]

believe so, u just update them there without zippin and shit

[quick temple]

someone here plays 0/0 dispatcher so idk

[frozen walrus]

You do?

[quick temple]

i do think it was Vancleef that doesnt

[frozen walrus]

Without Dispather and KS, you can get Acro and and deft

I think I will try that

[quick temple]

idk how passing up 30% dispatch damage is a vibe

but if it works it works

[frozen walrus]

I agree

[ocean thunder]

Kinda heard horrendous comments about shuffle this week and MM, is it true or exaggerations?

[quick temple]

think Black arrow is doing too much dam

[potent pivot]

This stacks 3x homie

With Cloud Cover

[quick temple]

oooh ye

[potent pivot]

But then you’re spending more energy and energy is an issue on trickster

[frozen walrus]

I have had zero energy issues with it

[potent pivot]

When you can just go by the actual correct rule and cancel KS when capping energy

[solid gulch]

if by mm u mean marksman hunter ive been shitting on them in like every game

[river pollen]

Bruhhh silvermoon pvp dummy stat not working again

[potent pivot]

Idk if you’re missing globals then or what

[solid gulch]

they doing big dmg tho fs, im lowbie 1600 tho

[potent pivot]

Because when you low roll energy can be very slow

[potent pivot]

Are you using a character sheet addon?

Because a lot of those broke with the patch

[river pollen]

Nope no addons

[potent pivot]

I turned mine off and pvp dummy worked fine on my stats

[river pollen]

I only have the leatrix map addon which ive disabled

[potent pivot]

No it got buffed lol

[potent pivot]

That’s weird then idk

[river pollen]

Was it the silvermoon one where u tried?

[potent pivot]

Ya

[maiden gull]

is hunter bugged? they take no damage

and have perma def cd´s wtf?

[frozen walrus]

I think there is abug with their tenacity pets

That give they insane defesivies

[final dew]

can you link to the changes page?

[rough rock]

mw plays mid whole game

"why should i cap flag"

[final dew]

nvm i found it. damn, seems to be lots of talent changes. anything to select now, or anything to stay away from?

[river pollen]

Is there an addon that shows pvp stats? None of the dummies are working for me

[rough rock]

also 10th blitz game and no item still

[river pollen]

Nvm it is now

After restart

[frozen walrus]

So it feesl really good with no KS or Ace

[gusty hedge]

@spring bough

[spring bough]

gross

[rough rock]

no ace is crazy

[spring bough]

i just got tier 2 leg recolor to go thank the lord

[potent pivot]

As sub you can just play the same talents we were already playing

Just swap to Clous Cover

On the trickster tree

[fresh bronze]

also how do i get these galactic sliver things, everytime game shows them as reward, i dont actually get any

(i was doing 2s, pls dont judge solo shuffle rating lol)

[potent pivot]

From PvP

Rated

[fresh bronze]

yes but im not getting anything, spammed 2s entire night

my friend got 5, and i got nothing

[potent pivot]

They are rng