pvp

[gusty hedge]

remove rtb from GCD before any of that

[potent pivot]

Make everything off gcd and remove energy too while we’re at it

Whoever can mash their macro of all their abilities the fastest wins

[abstract stratus]

realistically of all things to be on gcd smoke bomb should at the very least have a shortend gcd like hamstring or something

[potent pivot]

The only gcd that actually needs to be touched right now

Is making Coup a regular gcd

…

[abstract stratus]

they will when its a weaker than evis

[potent pivot]

I swear they fixed it back in TWW

Then broke it again because of outlaw

[severe helm]

Nah

It's been broken always

[vocal surge]

make both spec's versions separate from each other

[potent pivot]

Then how was outlaw double Coup’ing

For a short amount of time

[severe helm]

cuz outlaw adr reduces it still

so outlaws coup gcd was 1s

adr is a 20% gcd reduction

or 25% I forget

but only outlaw could take advantage of the bug cuz of that

[potent pivot]

Ahh

[severe helm]

we couldnt do the bug when adr was down

[potent pivot]

Ye ik

Maybe it was just because we only played FB up until til that point then

[severe helm]

prob

[potent pivot]

Because we only knew about it for a short time before it got changed really

[severe helm]

they did fix the bug by just making the buff clear instantly

[potent pivot]

Yeah

[severe helm]

well it was there the whole prev season

I did in pvp

but yeah s2 it became popular

[blazing lava]

For sub rogue, we go our 4 piece for tier right?

[severe helm]

so they removed it

[potent pivot]

Ya

[jolly sierra]

dudes got a tier on lfr a fkn curio

a dude said me this lol

[dark kernel]

That char name

[potent pivot]

_>

[jolly sierra]

def a sore loser

[potent pivot]

Yeah lol

Weirdo behavior

[molten hedge]

Bro deff spams that in every shuffle

[final dew]

got a dub:

[jaunty osprey]

so mutilate is absolutely garbage

BUT

doomblade is fucking insane

[potent pivot]

Nice

[jaunty osprey]

now let me try with a garrote up

so

not bad with systemic failure

now i see with 4 set

[final dew]

what addon is that for the recap?

[jaunty osprey]

in-game combat log

lol

so yeah, probably would play doomblade and systemic failure

ambush never worth pressing over mutilate

[potent pivot]

BRB buffing ambush

[small tangle]

Hey fellows rogues, which poisons I should be using for assassination for pvp while being specced into amp poison ? mainly doing bgs and world stuff, meaning no arenas or shuffles.

[jaunty osprey]

Wound poison with amp!

That way self heals are reduced

especially in BGs/world pvp where there is no dampening (reduced healing)

[potent pivot]

All builds have to spec amp to get the next talent. You don’t HAVE to use the poison

If spec’d into DtB, then you’d run wound+amp like Ivan was saying

If not spec’d into DtB, just run wound

[graceful ravine]

anyone feel like this S1 is more dead pvp wise in terms of participation vs previous expansions?

[potent pivot]

It seems relatively good to me

~15min solo q times

[small tangle]

ok nice thats exactly what I was thinking, thanks guys !

[vocal surge]

I ran of decor....

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-why-pepe-the-frog-sad-crying-gif-16026853

But the decor costs honor

https://tenor.com/view/mr-incredible-gif-24136820

BGB team throwing

[potent pivot]

Can’t LFG in the server homie

Sorry

[final dew]

https://klipy.com/gifs/crying-sad-147

[abstract stratus]

🙂

[outer sky]

@jaunty osprey new meta build?

[abstract stratus]

what items are we buying this week btw

[potent pivot]

Insignia or anything else u want

From this point on it doesn’t really matter

We’ve got items for tier etc

[abstract stratus]

what are we doing tier for other than head and shoulders again

[potent pivot]

Spec?

[abstract stratus]

might as well stick to sin since thats what ive played mostly im over sub for the time being

[potent pivot]

I’d stick to 2p for assa atm

Until we’re sure 4p is worth

[outer sky]

hmmmm this mutilate build may be good lmao

although

I cant tell

for sure

because my meters dont tell me how much damage things are doing

[potent pivot]

Start logging to WCL

[dark kernel]

@jaunty osprey I have confirmed how the Darkest Night bug and Deathstalker bug works

and I can recreate it

[odd yew]

What's the haste command

[waxen meteor]

how we feeling after new nerf

[jaunty osprey]

ya, i shared earlier in channel and to trickz

CMQAByFP3pExAEG41/8+e6b8fPzMzMbmBAAAAAwsNjZbGAAAAAQLLjZwMjxMzMjhZmhZGzMjZGjZMMYbmtxCjZMLNmlthJbDDbzw2MDmZmhB

CMQAByFP3pExAEG41/8+e6b8fPzMjZbmBAAAAAwsNjZbGAAAAAQLLjZwMjxMzMzyMLzMDmxMzYYGzYYgBWgZMaMLgsNgtZYDYmZwA

[waxen meteor]

oh nice, log on discord at a good time lol

[abstract stratus]

mutilate pumps

[final dew]

went full Mast build, lets see if this is any different:

[dark kernel]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/pvp-rogue-deathstalkers-mark-bug-lost-in-arenapvp-matches-recreatable/2289369

Please updoot my post

[jaunty osprey]

so was I correct

is it because you sent darkest night

into an immunity

that's why I have no issues with it as assa

cause they're not really immuning my darkest night

[dark kernel]

yeah

[potent pivot]

!stats

[lethal roost]

These are the recommended stat priorities for each spec in PvP. Please keep in mind that having suboptimal stats on some pieces such as tier set pieces is not the end of the world.

• Assassination: Vers>Mastery>Haste>Crit
• Outlaw: Vers>Haste=/=Crit>Mastery
  You want to stack at least 20% Haste on Outlaw to lower the GCD during Adrenaline Rush.
• Subtlety: Vers>Haste to 600-700>Mastery>Crit
  Sub now uses a haste threshold to extend Dance and shorten Secret Technique's CD.
  Sub haste rating chart:
  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1483399511836725378/image.png?ex=69bc6d33&is=69bb1bb3&hm=21db8524f3add252a5f7556c91a39c6d076b5cbf29926a0ff3de6f1dad996660&

[proven field]

How is envenom so low lol, your rotation is a myster to me

[graceful ravine]

is CR inflating slower than usual or am i just washed up

[potent pivot]

Season 1s inflate slowly

Because mmr “hard resets”

It only seems to “soft reset” between seasons

[graceful ravine]

i remember DF S1 inflating fast in shuffles, but that might be because it was the new and flash mode

[potent pivot]

It was new ye

[graceful ravine]

TWW Blitz S1 inflated super fast as well

either that or im a scrub now

[potent pivot]

They let it go uncapped like blitz is rn

[graceful ravine]

hard stuck 1900 wtf lmao

i feel like a pleb

[potent pivot]

I swear I remember TWW s1 inflating slowly

[abstract stratus]

useless ass sub rogue

[graceful ravine]

took 16 days

we're 3-4 weeks into the pvp season now, and im 1900, either im dog shit and washed up or its the inflation haha

[potent pivot]

That wasn’t from blitz?

[graceful ravine]

hm i cant tell where it was from

DF S1 took me 12 days to get elite with shuffle
TWW S1 took me 16 days to get elite with blitz (or shuffle)
Midnight = 23 days and im stuck 1900, this has been doubting myself lmao

[potent pivot]

blitz is pretty inflated already

the arena meta is a bit weird rn

[abstract stratus]

creeping venom doesnt stack with the other slow shit right? like i tried it in a few shufs and 2s and couldnt tell

[proven field]

i believe they just race to see which is stronger, and the target takes that

if creeping gets higher than crippling, your target just gets creeping

Blitz does feel super inflated - i've been playing just to keep top 20 or so for fun but it's already almost 2k with only 200 people

[potent pivot]

whatever slow is stronger will take over

[abstract stratus]

word so not worth

i guess tricks of the trade is good for a flex point if i dont need disarm

was just looking at options

i dont think tricks of the trade would have saved that sub rogue from egging but maybe with other teamates lol

[potent pivot]

blitz is the only bracket where ppl are already like 3k

[potent pivot]

ye tricks is good just macro it into any ability

[abstract stratus]

i have it on both my kb dm and seperate if i need to press it on its own

frame sort makes it brainless to use

[potent pivot]

u can just macro it to mutilate/garrote/rupture

so you're just buffing a team mate on CD

[abstract stratus]

buffing my teammate randomly when he cant take advantage seems less than ideal

[potent pivot]

not really

unless you're playing a burst comp in 3s its fine

iirc trill just macros it to dance regardless of comp in 3s as well

[proven field]

lol so don't update my linkedin at 2k

[abstract stratus]

fuck i need to update my fucking linkedin

why is that even a thing

who uses that shit other than my boss

[proven field]

people who want to sell your company AI tools for productivity

[outer sky]

Holy shit what a game!

[rough rock]

i played around with mastery today and the damage is pretty noticeable

Was doing mostly 2s but most openers was just forcing trinket, running away, next opener gg

[graceful ravine]

hows assa? pros cons vs sub?

[outer sky]

Its terrible

like actually trash tier garbage

[graceful ravine]

hahha

rip

[outer sky]

Could buff it another 30% wouldnt change shit

[severe helm]

Harder to play

Really strong burst still

Less cc

More consistent pressure probably but tbh it's close cuz subs pretty overtuned still

[outer sky]

It does a lot of damage on the scoreboard but none of it is threatening. Every 1m you can try and cheese a 1 shot with kingsbane>envenom

cant CC anything

[severe helm]

Ccs more than outlaw lol

[outer sky]

apex talents dont work on anyone with W bound

[outer sky]

yeah well thats a whole different issue

outlaw is beyond fucked

[severe helm]

I think assa cc is closer to a balanced level than sub is

[outer sky]

yeah you'd be wrong

the silence isnt carrying as hard as you think it is

its good but its still nothing like sub rogue

[severe helm]

I think you're underestimating how far above balanced sub is

[outer sky]

I'm not comparing assa to sub

[severe helm]

I'm saying sub is more op cc wise than assa is below

I am

My statement was directly comparing them

[outer sky]

Its still not enough

1 cheap on a 2m CD

is aids

[severe helm]

Assa is less underpowered than sub is overpowered

Bro you're not understanding the statement

Subs cc is comically op and broken

I would say sub is about as op as outlaw is underpowered

[outer sky]

I dont care about sub lol if you got your way tomorrow and the spec was deleted from the game i'd still call assa trash tier garbage with crap CC

[severe helm]

Those might be close to equal

If assa is trash garbage tier what the fuck is outlaw

I feel like your scale is broken

[outer sky]

I think theyre both D tier but outlaw is like bottom D tier and assa is top D tier

[odd yew]

!stats

[lethal roost]

These are the recommended stat priorities for each spec in PvP. Please keep in mind that having suboptimal stats on some pieces such as tier set pieces is not the end of the world.

• Assassination: Vers>Mastery>Haste>Crit
• Outlaw: Vers>Haste=/=Crit>Mastery
  You want to stack at least 20% Haste on Outlaw to lower the GCD during Adrenaline Rush.
• Subtlety: Vers>Haste to 600-700>Mastery>Crit
  Sub now uses a haste threshold to extend Dance and shorten Secret Technique's CD.
  Sub haste rating chart:
  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1483399511836725378/image.png?ex=69bc6d33&is=69bb1bb3&hm=21db8524f3add252a5f7556c91a39c6d076b5cbf29926a0ff3de6f1dad996660&

[severe helm]

I don't think assa is D tier

[outer sky]

C at best

its definitely a long shot from B tier

[severe helm]

Prob high C yeah maybe low B in certain comps that haven't formed in the meta yet

Sub is just SSSS tier

So it skews things

[outer sky]

its still horse shit

It needs more cheaps

[severe helm]

If you think sub is only A tier then ofc assa is gonna seem like D

[outer sky]

if it doesnt get that itll stay horse shit

[severe helm]

Comparing it to a god spec

[outer sky]

I'm not

youre doing that

[severe helm]

No I'm trying to compare it to the rest of the game

[outer sky]

yeah its bad

needs more cheaps

to not be bad

[severe helm]

It's worse than ww for sure

But I think you'd want it over war in some comps

Prob over dh in some too

Just comparing to other melees

Prob over dk for better burst in more setup comps

[outer sky]

nah

and if you do

its just damage tuning

thats it

[severe helm]

I mean it has more cc than all of those melee I just listed right?

[outer sky]

i think youre just so depressed about outlaw that you think everything is good compared to it so its like offensive to you to call anything else bad

the kit is lacking

no matter how many buttons you list

[severe helm]

I didn't mention outlaw at all there

I'm just comparing it to other specs that are also around C/B tier

And I think assa fits in there

[outer sky]

its C tier tops

[severe helm]

High C low B is prob where I'd put it

[outer sky]

and only due to having decent damage

[severe helm]

Yeah that's how tier lists work lol they consider damage

Duh

What would be the sense in not factoring that in

[outer sky]

its not enough damage

to begin to make up for the CC it lost

so its still bad

really bad

[severe helm]

Compared to the other specs in the game it's pretty average

High C low B for sure

[outer sky]

im not sure what the point of this conversation is tbh

[severe helm]

Maybe higher if some good comps arise in the meta

[outer sky]

seems kind of weird

[severe helm]

That fit assa well

Well someone asked about assa pros and cons

Just giving an honest realistic answer

[outer sky]

he asked me

and I answered it just fine

its bad

if youre C tier youre bad

just viable

something can be bad and viable

[severe helm]

I thought this was not a very honest answer which is why I decided to correct you

It's def not terrible actual trash tier garbage

That's just outright wrong

[outer sky]

it is

its just viable

[severe helm]

Yes that's a different answer

I agree it's viable

[outer sky]

its horse shit crap terrible garbage

[severe helm]

That was the point of this

To get you to correct yourself

You've mostly gotten there

[potent pivot]

its fine

[outer sky]

idk this is kinda weird of you tbh

[severe helm]

Well you asked this explicitly

[outer sky]

i dont care enough to argue with you about whether its terrible or just bad

[severe helm]

So I answered

[outer sky]

ok mewo

thanks

[severe helm]

Yw

[potent pivot]

Outlaw probably gonna get a bit more popular too now

Since whaazz played it today and did quite well

[severe helm]

Ye 12% buff is pretty lorge

I just got back from a work trip

Excited to try it out

[potent pivot]

I think someone also tried it in awc a bit

Might’ve been dazed I didn’t see it

[severe helm]

I think in shuffle the strat is gonna be to just gas pedal and take advantage of prep and KiR in the short rounds

Play it like a fury war p much

Crazy how many buffs in a row it's gotten since the start

[potent pivot]

When you’re the only class tuned based on utility

It takes a truck ton of damage to “replace” the utility

[severe helm]

Yeah fr

Quite a paradigm shift for its role in a match tbh

Been like two full xpacs of being a support spec haha

[outer sky]

I dont think ive ever once heard anyone say any other class couldnt do damage because of utility besides maybe ret. But even ret doesnt get balanced like that the way rogues do

[potent pivot]

A ton of people say it about all kinds of classes

But blizzard only says it about rogue

[severe helm]

I think it's indirect. Like if they nerf utility and then a spec is underperforming they might buff damage later on

[graceful ravine]

!stats

[lethal roost]

These are the recommended stat priorities for each spec in PvP. Please keep in mind that having suboptimal stats on some pieces such as tier set pieces is not the end of the world.

• Assassination: Vers>Mastery>Haste>Crit
• Outlaw: Vers>Haste=/=Crit>Mastery
  You want to stack at least 20% Haste on Outlaw to lower the GCD during Adrenaline Rush.
• Subtlety: Vers>Haste to 600-700>Mastery>Crit
  Sub now uses a haste threshold to extend Dance and shorten Secret Technique's CD.
  Sub haste rating chart:
  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1483399511836725378/image.png?ex=69bc6d33&is=69bb1bb3&hm=21db8524f3add252a5f7556c91a39c6d076b5cbf29926a0ff3de6f1dad996660&

[potent pivot]

its not

they quite literally said it

[severe helm]

Yeah but only after letting it underperform

[potent pivot]

no

[severe helm]

Wdym

[potent pivot]

they said it about sub

[severe helm]

We're talking about outlaw? Or

[molten hedge]

They rly pissed you off when they said that huh

[severe helm]

Oh when they nerfed subs damage yeah

[potent pivot]

more than any of you will ever know

[severe helm]

What do you think they should have done instead

Like what would have been a better change

[potent pivot]

without doing what should be done to assa/outlaw in the first place?

[severe helm]

Nah just for sub in isolation

Not in comparison to the other rogue specs

[potent pivot]

i mean

the real answer is to buff underperforming damage specs in the game and give back utility to those without it

can't really just put sub in a vacuum

[severe helm]

So just buff everyone else up to compete with sub

Like all the specs

[potent pivot]

they put themselves in this situation

so ya

they made the DR changes, dance CD changes, cheap shot changes, etc

they want sub to be the cc spec

that shouldn't also mean it has to do dog shit dmg

[severe helm]

Well if they buff all the other classes cc to compete with sub

[potent pivot]

being a CC bot doesn't win shuffles

[severe helm]

Doesn't that make it not the cc spec anymore

[potent pivot]

not like that

not to that extent

i mean like pruned CC

shit that should not have been pruned

while you leave certain specs' CC unpruned

it makes zero sense

[severe helm]

I think having good damage and having good cc can work as long as it's not burst damage

But having good burst and good cc does tend to kinda just make something a little unfair

Like generally the balance is that one spec synergizes with another by providing what the other doesn't have

But idk I think the Dr reset being short is kinda making pvp a little less fun imo

That's a big part of the problem to me

[potent pivot]

i like it

even when i play other stuff

i also like the game being bursty

i hate damp metas

[severe helm]

I'm not sure what the purpose of it is

[potent pivot]

so boring

[gilded gulch]

i like queueing into demo

and eating 3 instant ccs

[severe helm]

I think you don't need burst to be non damp

Dying in a global isn't the only alternative to damp

You just need to make healing not op

[potent pivot]

ye i mean dying in a global is too much

[gilded gulch]

mm hunter

[potent pivot]

like ww

[gilded gulch]

[potent pivot]

was obv too much

[severe helm]

Yeah ww is NOT fun gameplay

You should never be able to kill without cc'ing

Imo

Period

[potent pivot]

if the enemy team has nothing

dying is fine

[severe helm]

Yeah unless they have nothing to trade

Sure

But dying through pain sup

While healer isn't in cc

Is bad design

[gilded gulch]

i dont think ww burst

will ever reach bdb keefer’s

of SL

ever again

[severe helm]

It feels worse

Rn

[gilded gulch]

that was the season

[severe helm]

Maybe cuz back then you could track keefers

[gilded gulch]

you would incap someone to go the

[severe helm]

So you knew when it was coming

[gilded gulch]

most people overcommited

to one keefer go

and died next

[severe helm]

I mean you had to

[gilded gulch]

Yeah shit was was even more disgust in 2s ngl

just autowon if you got healer trinket in opener

namely on rdru or sham

[outer sky]

the WW nerfs are noticeable

theyre doing less damage this week

[graceful ravine]

looks like shuffle is a bit deflated, okay maybe im not trash afterall lmao

#1 sub rogue is 2242

[potent pivot]

[graceful ravine]

Im fighting for my life in these shuffles

[rough rock]

@vocal surge we just skipping 4 set right?

Crafted gear looks so much better stat wise

[vocal surge]

You can go 3 and 4p with Shoulder and Helm

and stack vers for the rest of your gear slots

[river pollen]

Hey I wanted to know your opinion if you can, when i was playing trickster I had around 680 haste, do you think the optimal range with ds would be in the early 600s instead of closer to 700?

Id like to stick to the 600-700 breakpoint, not the 200 one thats why

[potent pivot]

trickster is the one that kinda "needs" the extra .2s because of Coup

!stats

[lethal roost]

These are the recommended stat priorities for each spec in PvP. Please keep in mind that having suboptimal stats on some pieces such as tier set pieces is not the end of the world.

• Assassination: Vers>Mastery>Haste>Crit
• Outlaw: Vers>Haste=/=Crit>Mastery
  You want to stack at least 20% Haste on Outlaw to lower the GCD during Adrenaline Rush.
• Subtlety: Vers>Haste to 600-700>Mastery>Crit
  Sub now uses a haste threshold to extend Dance and shorten Secret Technique's CD.
  Sub haste rating chart:
  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1483399511836725378/image.png?ex=69bc6d33&is=69bb1bb3&hm=21db8524f3add252a5f7556c91a39c6d076b5cbf29926a0ff3de6f1dad996660&

[potent pivot]

as DS you can stick to 600

i don't think anyone's really been switching to DS tho just throwing that out there as well

mark can still bug sometimes it seems

@dark kernel where u getting this information

[dark kernel]

I thought other people had tested that but already and it was in a prior bug fix from one of the few patches hotfixes over the past couple weeks

If I'm wrong I can just edit the post. I just was in the belief that was the OLD bug that they fixed and this is some new remaining issue

I actually did not have issues reapplying the mark to post bubbles targets when I was messing with it.

[potent pivot]

nothing was officially fixed

just been going off ivan saying he hasn't had issues

its likely the same exact bug, just behaving differently in pvp than in pve

cuz it happens in pve as well

[outer sky]

Im liking DS personally. Although damage isnt the only reason why. We may see more people switch when 12.0.5 hits and the mark can be swapped

[dark kernel]

I kind of wondered about that personally I legitimately remembered to test this last night and only had like 5 minutes at 11:00 p.m.

I just wanted to get it out there I'll edit it and make adjustments. I also sent it to a developer

I also know at least a dev is aware of it

[outer sky]

whats the addon that reminds you to put poisons on called again?

[wanton breach]

somethign raid buff

missingraidbuffs?

clickable raid buffs?

[outer sky]

Which one of you is Dream-Kel'Thuzad the priest?

[orchid plinth]

I use https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/buffreminders

[outer sky]

Thanks!

[potent pivot]

Clickable raid buffs is the best one

[potent pivot]

The issue is that they’ve been aware of it since the mark change was implemented I’m pretty sure

Because it’s also an issue for PvE

[outer sky]

Nobody plays rogue enough in any game content for them to care lmfao

[potent pivot]

They just don’t seem to be putting in much dev time to fix class shit

They’ve got way bigger fish to fry unfortunately

[outer sky]

New decor items

[potent pivot]

Nah I mean bug fixes

Loot bugs, pve content bugs, all kinds of shit has been bricked this expansion

[dark kernel]

I just hope that since it affects an ENTIRE hero tree it'll get looked at

I'm putting some good vibes out there

[potent pivot]

Nothing wrong with hoping

I just don’t see it happening idk

Maybe if the .5 change doesn’t magically fix it

[dark kernel]

Same

I'd HOPE they would try to look into it and slide it in that patch

I know a dev has seen the issue

I'm just not going to press it

[potent pivot]

I asked whispyr about it and was all but told nothing’s gonna get done about it

[dark kernel]

I don't know whispyr much but does he have an in?

Or they?

[potent pivot]

Some of the ppl from class discs do talk to some ppl ye

[dark kernel]

Ahh okay

I have a contact too, and they at least confirmed to have looked at the issue

But other than seeing it that's all I know.

[potent pivot]

I hope it isn’t smex

[dark kernel]

[potent pivot]

[dark kernel]

GG no Re

[spring bough]

How’s the DH

[potent pivot]

Haven’t touched it too much since leveling tbh

Just been on the rogue and dabbling with leveling other stuff

[spring bough]

It got buffed this last week

[potent pivot]

Ik

Idk if I’d even play dev in pvp tho

I’m too melee brained

[spring bough]

I’m tired of leveling. Just want these level 90 boosts out 😂

[potent pivot]

i've been trying really hard to lvl ww and find a way to enjoy it

but idk the class just doesn't feel very fun

[spring bough]

WW is weird lol

[potent pivot]

yeh

the hit combo thing makes it a little interesting but

idk outside of CDs it feels very sluggish and underwhelming

i also don't like how xuen is baked into a hero tree now? i swear it wasn't before or i'm trippin maybe

like it used to have 2 nice dps CDs and now it just has this zenith shit

[terse cedar]

how bad would outlaw be running full sub gear?

[potent pivot]

depends on how much haste you were running on sub

cuz outlaw needs like 21-23% haste or something

[maiden gull]

you think they will balance this week again?

[potent pivot]

no telling

last week's tuning was the last tuning that was announced ahead of time

[maiden gull]

yeah

[potent pivot]

so we might not get any for a bit

once awc starts we usually get 1 or 2 tunings during it

[dark kernel]

More sub nerfs inc dw

[potent pivot]

so if we don't get anything this week, we'll likely get something in a couple weeks

going off the awc showings

the only thing that needs nerfs is mw

some things just rly need buffs still

[outer sky]

Ret

[potent pivot]

Never gonna happen

[outer sky]

I know...

[potent pivot]

[jaunty osprey]

Just don’t darkest night into immunities smh

Still need a video recreated from your POV though

[dark kernel]

https://tenor.com/view/gun-tears-cat-point-gun-crying-cat-gif-17741904

[potent pivot]

[dark kernel]

Yeah I legit tested it in 5 minutes with a guildy but I reproduced it instantly

notrickz is right I need to test more classes and acrnarios

[jaunty osprey]

Cause I’ve shared multiple videos of me using it after immunities (5+ videos)

[dark kernel]

Hopefully they won't ignore me...right?

[jaunty osprey]

and it works fine

[outer sky]

You know whats stupid af? The fact that when rets (or paladins in general) are bubbled that theyre still counted as a player in a cart on Silvershard and Deephaul

[proven field]

I swear current Ret is like Batman and Jesus had a baby... so many gadgets that can openly overlap with seemingly zero repercussions

[outer sky]

They need to nuke them

[river pollen]

Is that ds bug an issue in arena only or it happens in all type pvp

[proven field]

even just get rid of the "can see you through vanish and horsie right up your butthole" ability would be great

[dark kernel]

It seems it can happen anywhere.

[river pollen]

Damn

[dark kernel]

Just if the condition is met

[outer sky]

Or if not then really lean into it and make it so their healthbar changes colors after each full heal/immunity like a boss fight when the boss' health resets

[proven field]

lol their xmog slowly gets redder each HP bar

[outer sky]

Like every time you think youre done they have another button

[proven field]

smoke coming off them, maybe some lightning bolts

"oh shit, third phase, I think we're nearly there" cue voiceover and ominous music

[outer sky]

That wall they have

Is so fucking ridiculous

[proven field]

the swap that they bop, you're like "please kindly fuck off already"

[outer sky]

Its a 30% wall that also procs an absorb shield. And they can press it while stunned

And they just passively take 10% less damage when theyre below 35%

So every 1m they get a pain sup with an absorb shield

Like

Come on

[river pollen]

Ret should be weaker for lore purposes rn cus some should start doubting the light or whatever

[outer sky]

You have no idea how long this has been going on for

They cant get it right with ret

Never have been able to

Every time something is disgustingly broken

Its almost always ret

Like

I remember back in Wrath

The predecessor to Sanc

Freedom removed stuns

And was usable while stunned

Like of course ret would have something like that

[river pollen]

Built different

[outer sky]

But at least back then LoH wasnt usable in arena

They had no interupt

Wings was dispelabe

Bubble reduced damage done by 50%

Couldn't bubble out of some CCs

Couldn't bubble with forbearance

Actually needed to be in melee

[wanton breach]

that is long gone

ranged dps with tons of immunities nowadays

spellwarding got nerfed to 6s lately though, right?

[outer sky]

Yeah

Like

The one that gets me

Is LoH

Not only is it usable in arena now

But its unaffected by damp and MS effects

But thats not all

It ALSO increases its target's armor by 1000

Or whatever the midnight number is

Like at that point it just looks like theyre trying to bloat their kit as much as possible

I mean really

In addition to everything else it does

An armor buff too

Okay

[terse cedar]

this is what itd look like after swapping all my honor gear out for haste ones and leaving the glad armor on

Just in silvermoon, unsure if stats change when in arenas

[outer sky]

Go hit the pvp training dummies

They scale you up to your pvp ilvl when you get in combat with them

[terse cedar]

aha I see, itd be this then

[proven field]

yeah im definitely on team zicore for ret hatred... in blitz I've got them mostly set but if it's ret + 1 on a node just forget it... dude even offhealing better than the rsham on my team

you end up pressing scoreboard... "how this motherfucker have 14M dmg and 9M healing"

@potent pivot man you were right about blitz bloat though... even on assa, if I want to stay around top 20 it's already 2k rating... top dudes 3k and there's only 200 of us

[outer sky]

I cant stand them on carts maps. They 100% should not be counted as in the cart when theyre bubbled. I mean they can legit 1v2. Just bubble to kill somebody and then when their bubble goes down they still have their broken af wall

Press wings and im just at 20% insta

Omg and dont even get me started on glare capping

[abstract stratus]

moonfire is such a waste of a global

[outer sky]

Wrong class discord

[abstract stratus]

LMAO

felt like throwing a wrench in the hate thread

[wanton breach]

im curious tho

[outer sky]

Broken and needs a nerf

Or ideally to be removed from the game

You just searing glare the node

Nobody can spin you

Everything misses

It cant be trinketed

Could have 5 people hitting you it doesnt matter

And it lasts longer than it takes to cap

[wanton breach]

it does?! wtf

[outer sky]

Most obnoxious button in the game and of course ret has it

[proven field]

hrmm most obnoxious button in the game.. that's a good question

wait why did it quote that

[outer sky]

Well it lasts as long as it takes to cap so you just click the flag as the cast goes off

Same diff

[proven field]

8 second warrior fear (or any fear really) is pretty frustrating, I'd have to think most obnoxious

[outer sky]

Didn't that get nerfed?

[wise breach]

I haven't done BGs in a while, but isn't cap time 6s and Glare lasts 4?

[outer sky]

In the 10 man bracket nobody plays, yes

In Blitz cap is 4s

[wise breach]

Huh

[outer sky]

?

[wise breach]

Did not know that

[outer sky]

Ye

4s cap in blitz

[proven field]

Did it? I feel like fears basically send me to Africa and back... every time I get hit with one I just hear this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTQbiNvZqaY

I tried thinking of what else could be most obnoxious button though... maybe you're right, maybe it is glare

[outer sky]

So its 1.2s shorter than it used to be

From 7.2s to 6s

[molten hedge]

i just got 90 time to see. very diff playstyle from rog for sure lol kinda just pve the whole time with occassional cool plays with RoP.. having a ranged disarm is cool and able to root with disable

[outer sky]

A ranged disarm that cant be dispelled, dodged, blocked, or parried

While also not caring much about being disarmed yourself because it only stops fists of fury

Before TWW monk disarm had an even longer range

Was 30 yards instead of 20

[severe helm]

I thought glare was only 4s

Is the cap that short

[outer sky]

Yes

[severe helm]

What's the cap time

[outer sky]

4s

So you just click the flag at the same instant the cast goes off and you get it for free

Super lame

[jaunty osprey]

@outer sky make sure to update your builds to the ones I shared yday btw

And you can move regicide to whereever you want 😂

[outer sky]

The one I saw you share yesterday didnt have regicide

Did you share another?

[outer sky]

Are we SURE this isn't a meme?

This mut build

And do we press FoK at all anymore?

[outer sky]

Oh yeah

This is it

No regicide

[jaunty osprey]

FOK better when you can hit THREE targets in terms of damage

after mutilate buffs

but also fan is better for spreading poisons

[rocky ore]

Hey all! Does anyone know if you can do the 4-week questline for the heroic piece all at once now? or if i start it now i still have to do it in 4 weeks

[lime oar]

i only tested on dummies briefly with doomblade and didn’t really pay attention, it’s that good? how often does it tick and for how much

[maiden gull]

ww needs another nerf, its opressing af at least at 1,9k-2k cr

[outer sky]

Wonder if the move is Secondary Poisoning over Thrown Precision

[outer sky]

WW damage needs to be oppressive tbh

They dont really do anything else

If theyre on you and you're not dying fast theyre undertuned and D tier

People just bring a warrior or DH instead

[indigo hill]

WW does allot of damage but that's all they got. Their only other options are running away or dying in a stun.

[jaunty osprey]

Secondary poisoning is trash

Cause you need 2 talent points to get there

[jaunty osprey]

The buffs doesn’t work on dummies for some reason

test it in a duel/arena

#pvp message

Go here and look downwards

Mutilated flesh is doomblades

[outer sky]

This isnt good?

[jaunty osprey]

No, I explained it to @potent pivot yday too

the difference between Caustic in PVP and PVE is massive

In PVE, you have Amp and Deadly poisons as additional instances of nature damage and you’re also chaining envenoms on stationary targets, this causes Caustic to do a lot of damage

In PVP, you have wound poison as your only nature damage besides envenom and KB and targets are constantly moving, so they will be out of range of Caustic (it’s a small radius around you)

You will get close to no value out of caustic

[gilded gulch]

hmm

avidance playing full mastery

[outer sky]

I hate that we're basically forced to take Amp Poison

its such a waste of a talent

i mean its a literal waste

[jaunty osprey]

Regicide is good

[outer sky]

0 value

[jaunty osprey]

trust me

When you play no haste

[outer sky]

Your build doesnt even have it

[jaunty osprey]

each additional point of haste is so impactful

??

#pvp message

It literally has it

what are you talking about

[outer sky]

I was looking at the 2nd one

[jaunty osprey]

The 2nd one is a completely different playstyle and you can’t grab regicide because you dont have enough talent points

[outer sky]

Thrown Precision>Improved Poisons?

[outer sky]

When do you play the 2nd one?

[jaunty osprey]

Into Melee + Caster typically

where more impactful goes are required

I assumed you were talking about the first build because you selected all the same capstone talents and made small changes up top

[jaunty osprey]

Yeah, improved poisons not too required when not playing DTB

[rough rock]

holy mana difference lmao

[rough rock]

no way

echo playing outlaw

@gusty hedge

[harsh kiln]

outlaw in the awc

what year is it

[gusty hedge]

fxkn whazz and he mogged the glaives

dream come true

[gusty hedge]

Wlol

[harsh kiln]

outlaw just became a warrior

[rough rock]

god damn

[gusty hedge]

gett ready for outlaw nerfs

[harsh kiln]

that's alot of Bladeflurry (cope)

[gleaming sentinel]

https://klipy.com/gifs/druski-shrug-2

wtf i been sayin

[lone jasper]

whats going on xD

[rough rock]

Pad damage

BM in game

but he hit 6x bte

[dark kernel]

Yeah that's nothing

[rough rock]

thats a 45% damage buff

[harsh kiln]

big BTE procc

[quick temple]

i dont think he plays bte crit talent either

[gleaming sentinel]

i feel validated

[novel karma]

Outlaw the pvp spec confirmed

[dark kernel]

"Whaazz has zero mastery and crit"

[gusty hedge]

crazy thats how one of my rogues are built rn

[rough rock]

i cant tell if hes running 4 piece or not

[pastel burrow]

He is

I think?

[gusty hedge]

zero mastery means no 4 set

[pastel burrow]

Damn

[rough rock]

yeah cause only gloves and pants gives no mastery

thats what i have

gg no more buffs till next year

[gusty hedge]

fuxxk i just hope we dnt get hit with nerfs

maybe they'll let us mog glaives after this?!?

[molten hedge]

@outer sky I got no horse in the race but that outlaw lookin pretty damn good from Whaazz lmaooo @severe helm

[harsh kiln]

that's not gonna happen xD

[dark kernel]

Hilarious that whaazz is using outlaw for this

He'segit just styling on children

[rough rock]

how tf does he have zero mastery

[dark kernel]

It's tournament server

You can see their full gear somewhere

[lone jasper]

https://inspect.gcd.tv/

[severe helm]

oh is it awc right now???

shit im at work

ill pull it up

[molten hedge]

Whaazz fuckin em up on the law

[severe helm]

yeah 12% fucking buff

it better be good now

[molten hedge]

Against jungle too

[dark kernel]

The team they're playing is.....decently good R1 people but not a big name

[severe helm]

ah

[molten hedge]

It’s still jungle though

[dark kernel]

He's just winning on sheer pressure

[severe helm]

outlaws good into jungle

[molten hedge]

Maybe it used to be but still?

[gusty hedge]

@spring bough

[molten hedge]

With no cc

[severe helm]

just in general its good

[molten hedge]

I should t say no cc

Just less

[severe helm]

cuz the goes are very obvious to outlaw and it can stop them

ill watch it

[spring bough]

What’s happening lmao

[severe helm]

outlaws kinda in a weird position now cuz it has to have insane pressure or its just not gona be strong

[molten hedge]

Also it’s not decent players

It’s Bank lol

[gusty hedge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/226359213427916800/1491817613544652883/aornae.gif

[molten hedge]

The best mw

[spring bough]

Is outlaw over performing AWC per usual?

[molten hedge]

Could just be the Whaazz effect lmao

[severe helm]

also true

[gusty hedge]

waazz and he's using that crafted void neck with shield u mentioned awhile back

full vers

[severe helm]

oh yeah whats the command

to see their gear

[spring bough]

Ofc

[severe helm]

or someone link it

[spring bough]

Crafted absorb shield neck not nerfed in PvP prob

[rough rock]

@severe helm

[harsh kiln]

that's what i'm saying, it's just another warrior atm

[severe helm]

2pc

is insane

[rough rock]

i knew 4 piece was dog

[severe helm]

ngl I feel like thats trolling

its not dog

its huge

[rough rock]

Its horrible

[severe helm]

elaborate

its a free 2.5% damage buff

and a shorter cd on a movement ability

[rough rock]

all those pieces are horrible stat wise when tiered

[severe helm]

they really arent

they arent so bad that they outweigh 2.5% damage

[rough rock]

i get 10% for pressing bte

and % for coins

[severe helm]

LOL

HES NOT EVEN RUNNING BTE CRIT DAM

wow outlaws so scuffed

wait

but hes running zero in

bro this build is so jank

[spring bough]

Prob not even running ace

[severe helm]

I guess he has to for pathing

hes running 1 pt ace

[rough rock]

Well hes in awc and youve only been playing healer...

[severe helm]

cuz bte damage buff matters

[gusty hedge]

[rough rock]

[severe helm]

that would be an appeal to authority fallacy

🙂

[spring bough]

Is he running both dice talents

[severe helm]

him being good at playing does not make him good at TCing

have you ever seen pikaboo

[gusty hedge]

true laws already knew the deal.

[severe helm]

dude barely even knows what the stats do

[gusty hedge]

dragon and the adr dice no sleight

[spring bough]

Feel like sleight too good not to take for shuffle

[rough rock]

vanish talent op

[severe helm]

yeah double vanish is strong ive been running it

[gusty hedge]

if they buff sleight by 10% id take

[severe helm]

sleights pretty strong tbh

most of the pve builds take it

[spring bough]

Sleight with KIR is great

[rough rock]

Felt no difference with it

[severe helm]

wow you felt no difference

guess it must do nothing

[gusty hedge]

with kir yes

[rough rock]

Thats TC for ya

[severe helm]

thats anecdotes for ya

[rough rock]

Dawg you are such a hater

go back to work

[severe helm]

nah gotta keep the dummies in place

[rough rock]

Feel like ive never seen you once say anything happy

[molten hedge]

I used it on beta it was like a 40% shield

[rough rock]

Just dooming and "nah what i like is best"

so annoying

[gusty hedge]

3-0 for echo

[severe helm]

I was just saying how excited I am to play outlaw rofl

change your mindset

its very negative

[spring bough]

Yeah insane that go thru without a big PvP modifier lol

[severe helm]

think theyll nerf it

after it appearing ina wc

[harsh kiln]

19-0 all in all apparently

[severe helm]

or theyll forget haha

[spring bough]

They prob won’t even notice lmao

[severe helm]

sounds like I know what im crafting haha

[molten hedge]

I need that and BM trinket to survive WW’s 😅😭

[pearl bane]

talent is bugged

in pvp

[rough rock]

is it?

[pearl bane]

yeah

[rough rock]

because of modifer?

[pearl bane]

doesnt actually give 2.8

[rough rock]

oh wtf

[severe helm]

LOOOOL

I thought its cuz the nerf was still there

the 50% modifier

they had in TWW

[pearl bane]

its completely bugged doesnt even amp crit damage at all

[severe helm]

sick sick

maybe theyll fix it next xpac

[rough rock]

youre not running 4 set huh?

[spring bough]

They’ll never fix PvP modifiers for outlaw lmao

Restless still got a 0.8 modifier

[proven kayak]

do 1600 gives manaflux or i took it by chance ??

and ti gives toekn for pvp/tier set

[severe helm]

Im about to drop deadly pursuit too just for acro

feels like it rarely ever procs

[gusty hedge]

Can you already feel the 8% nerf hot fix

[severe helm]

guess if youre sitting 9s of cc a lot

[rough rock]

I couldnt really see where it worked for him

unless stunned ig

[severe helm]

yeah 9s of no finishers is the only way to get full value out of it

in theory it seems like that would happen

[spring bough]

Deadly pursuit is pure garbage lol

[severe helm]

yeaaah I mean the options arent grea

its deadly pursuit or acro

[spring bough]

Rather have the combo points from a flurry than that lol

[severe helm]

thats how ive been feeling

it does make bf cost more energy though

so unless you can reliably hit 4+ targets

its not worth it over just pressing SS/PS

in terms of energy per CP

[gleaming sentinel]

prob sleight for me

instead of crit thing

[rough rock]

Thats so funny that the bte node doesnt work like it says

Would have never known that

[jaunty osprey]

So many piss pets and stuff now

[gusty hedge]

which?

[jaunty osprey]

that you’ll almost always have 4 targets

[severe helm]

Yeah that's what I've noticed

Uhdk is infinite

Even disc summons pets

[spring bough]

BTE crit talent

[jaunty osprey]

monk, you have statue right there and every team member

[severe helm]

Like maybe against ret war no reason

[jaunty osprey]

water elemental vs mage

[gusty hedge]

[severe helm]

Cuz it takes 4 targets for it to be better

[jaunty osprey]

Ya

[gusty hedge]

so pretty much we can effectively drop that talent and use it somewhere else until they decide to fix it(never gonna fix it)

[spring bough]

Sounds like it

[gusty hedge]

Looks like im back to more outlaw testing

[jaunty osprey]

Whaaz playing outlaw is proof that you dont NEED sub rogue stuns and that everyone should play Assa 😂

[severe helm]

hahaha

I wonder if he goes sub against better teams

we'll seeeee

gona be hilarious if they nerf outlaw after this tourney

[spring bough]

It always happens

[gusty hedge]

they hotfixed it live servers last time

[spring bough]

Inc hotfix mid tourney

[gleaming sentinel]

nerfing a spec because the best player in the world at it is doing well wouldnt be the first time

[rough rock]

Is turn the tables that much better overall compared to dismantle or was it just because of the team he was fighting

[gleaming sentinel]

def want turn the tables into a lot of stuff yea

dismantle vs rogue/mm and prob warrior

[severe helm]

Turn the tables uptime is pretty high

Considering stun Dr is only 16s

So it's gonna be up most of those 16 haha

[dark kernel]

He scrimmed a LOT of ww. I was shocked to see outlaw

He played Outlaw a single day

[indigo hill]

I always wonder where these tier lists look at and decide what is S tier. Which bracket?

[gusty hedge]

just noticed whaaz was using the double the gem power for gem embell for a boosted neck

[spring bough]

Love when pve gear is broken for PvP 😂

[spring bough]

I been running that since TWW season 1 lol

[gusty hedge]

got antoher outlaw in awc kek

[gleaming sentinel]

12% dam buff is a lot man

[rough rock]

plus that 10% sphere buff

sheesh

[dark kernel]

Brunhity didn't use a stun for the first 50 seconds of arena

[rough rock]

cant when you dont have one every 5 seconds like sub xD

[gusty hedge]

bruh he using glaives too haha fml

i wanna mog my glaives so bad !!

ohh yeah i wouldnt be suprised for outlaw nerfs

another W for Law

[jagged quiver]

its because is a tournament server?

[gusty hedge]

yeah !!

meanwhile im sacrificing damage for these badboyz

[dark kernel]

I'm going to be 100% honest.

I still think outlaw is overrated and I feel every one of these AWC teams are blundering by not swapping on rogue

They still think Outlaw has strong defensive

[gusty hedge]

our defense is stackin as much vers as possible

[gleaming sentinel]

LOL

[dark kernel]

Yeah that's about the extent of it

[gusty hedge]

also the least played kek

[dark kernel]

But still brunhity could just explode if they stun him out of feint

Like it's a WW

Their burst is insane

[gusty hedge]

with the tricks talent thats another 10%

blade rush and pump

[dark kernel]

So a team with a good WW finally play and rogues in the dirt

[rough rock]

well guess the pad damage arguement is out lmao

[dark kernel]

Let's see what happens next

[gusty hedge]

yeah rip almost done em both in

[rough rock]

Still top dam with zero pets

[dark stump]

dumb question ,do i need to reuse the ressources to recraft something ?

[gusty hedge]

only whats listed! the 10 void tempered etc,, dnt need r5 mats for pvp

almost 5k g in reagents for recraft from ur ss

[dark stump]

i miss the times when enchant and ressources didn't cost 10k gold

[outer sky]

Aye lets go I beat Jw!

[potent pivot]

Almost seems like the teams playing outlaw are trying to hide the real tech for now

[outer sky]

15%

[graceful ravine]

how many weeks til unlimited conq cap

[dark kernel]

I think so. The fact we haven't seen a thunder or turbo is confusing me

[potent pivot]

its usually week 10 or 11

but they raised conq weekly cap to 800 from 600 so maybe it will be a bit sooner this expansion

[potent pivot]

he's playing haste

~200

like 282 to be precise

[dark stump]

i love sitting and watch other play the game

cyclone need to be deleted at this point

getting my leg sweep by the sammy push

[stoic spruce]

Real

I've hated it ever since it came back

[jaunty osprey]

He didnt have the tech smh

[dark kernel]

Did you guys see how the outlaw rogue.....just dies.....huh

Kind of funny...

[outer sky]

I played assa he was sub too

[jaunty osprey]

assa > sub

[outer sky]

He didnt see that mutilate spam coming

[outer sky]

Dont say that to Mewo or he will literally have a brain aneurysm on the spot

[gusty hedge]

missed it ! crate farming my next rogue

[dark kernel]

Brunhity went 100-0 in a 3 second cc

[gusty hedge]

[dark kernel]

Whaazz build might make sense now

Run so much vers you're not a target

Because no innate defense

[severe helm]

told you assa wasnt bad

"actual trash tier" lol

[dark kernel]

Assa btw

[outer sky]

I stand by that

[potent pivot]

LOOOOOOOL

[dark kernel]

Assa stonks

[outer sky]

Were you the hpriest healer from my lobby this morning?

[severe helm]

no I havent played holy yet

my priest is xxmewo

[rough rock]

ele outlaw is a strange comp

Jaime a goat tho

[stoic spruce]

That AWC?

That sounds like an AWC comp

[river pollen]

Kinda a noob question but can you get tier sets from lfr, or is it only through vault at the end of the week. Cus if its the latter i am not gonna bother for the 4th piece since we are getting the dawnlight manaflux thing next week anyway

[severe helm]

yeh ele outlaw is one of those damp comps

wins by living

its like arcane outlaw

[potent pivot]

Whaazz is saying that Omnibar is apparently allowed in awc and he’d have to buy it from the maker for £250

What have we come to bro

[severe helm]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[severe helm]

did he say this on stream

[potent pivot]

Yes