pvp

[dark stump]

oh outlaw propaganda ?

[stoic spruce]

Just hang out a couple days here, you'll see

I thought he was talking about warriors tbh

Was wondering where he got that number from lol

[vague latch]

i've seen a lot of rogues start stun dr at bad times at this elo

[dark stump]

be like me hard stuck on ww

[indigo hill]

You're not the only one. Between 1600 and 1800 everything goes to shit on my monk.

It's fine before and after.

[olive sequoia]

bro how are they buffing mutilate by 180% but doing absolutely nothing for the non-existent bleed pressure outside of DM

[dark stump]

nothing is more funny than a tilted pal

the lobby was arms-fury-ww (me)-ret pal - holy pal - holy priest

[stoic spruce]

Bro name 2 lmaoo

[dark stump]

i was with the fury and decided to focus him they proced 5cd def before dying

and even then it was close

[vocal surge]

Paladins: "PvP Balance is So CrAp"
Me, an Outlaw: "Oh really?"

[dark stump]

well he was the ret pal after that he said my class was one of them

well yeah but i have more dignity playing a class that deal dmg but can get killed than one it cannot

[vocal surge]

Aye

[dark stump]

the worst is bop also grant immunity against physical dmg

[spring bough]

rets.... delusional.....

[vocal surge]

Time to play into the future

[spring bough]

@stoic spruce

Thoughts?

[dark stump]

it's like trying to change ur ex

it will never work

[quick temple]

Ppl are bad at building, if you get rooted or cc’d at all it’s good

[dark moon]

Who

Who on this earth is more broken than ret paladin, the godtier spec having everything

[dark stump]

https://giphy.com/gifs/bombaysoftwares-idk-unsure-no-idea-edyVvcoMbnqcVsuK9B

[gleaming sentinel]

LUL

[vocal surge]

Building? I just Slice and Dice x)

[spring bough]

bout to level my gnome outlaw lol

[spring bough]

ik its a tank

but like after the pruning did blizz really thing the disparity in these defensives was ok??

like rets still got 5 defensives like wtf

[exotic dove]

Well they say the first step in a problem is accepting it and this Ret pally seems to be taking the acceptance step well

[compact moat]

for outlaw pvp, do you guys use killling spree?

[vocal surge]

Depends on Hero Tree

If trickster, 100%

Fatebound, up to you

[compact moat]

why 100% on trickster

[keen canopy]

trickster talents get benefits from killing spree

[vocal surge]

Killing Spree pushes forward more Unseen Blades, also -10% CD on Killing Spree as Trickster

[compact moat]

ah

i didnt know that

i see

it just feels weird when i use it on pvp

feels like the dmg get distributed to pets

[vocal surge]

You gotta position yourself

to single out your target

otherwise it spreads

The targeting range for Killing Spree is a 8yd 180* Cone Infront of you

[gilded gulch]

if theres one thing i hate

its playing with warriors

[molten hedge]

At least ww is easier to deal with as sub bet it’s infuriating to get cheaped on your FoF. Moreso in .5 patch bc fist is gonna be hitting harder

[severe helm]

Yeah it's so fucked as outlaw

[severe helm]

It does

Killing spree hits random targets so it does almost no priority damage when there's pets around

[gleaming sentinel]

It’s so funny the complaint rn is: “I can’t solo kill someone in a stun combo anymore gg”

[gilded gulch]

i think playing with warriors makes me pop a blood vessel

[last jasper]

does 4p achiv account wide. cuz it feels like its not

[spare flare]

even in pve trickster is pretty bad compared to fatebound and in pvp getting value out of your killing spree is so hard + the fact that it's still a dps loss overall just for a little bit better burst (if you can get it to fully hit 1 player)

[spare flare]

nope it's not

[compact moat]

so fatebound always better?

im using trickster atm

[spare flare]

yes it's better

trickster is really annoying in pvp and it's undertuned

you have to be attacking the same target almost all game to make use of the fazed while fatebound's buffs are just attached to you so it doesn't limit you much or doesn't punish you for switching targets

[potent pivot]

wut

[quick temple]

fazed downtime isnt that crazy tbh, autos reset the timer

[spare flare]

yes it isn't but still lowers your damage sometimes

[quick temple]

they make both trees so rampy, outlaw has so many chores and ramping kinda lame

just crazy how seamless trickster is for sub compared to outlaw

[last jasper]

fr?? wowhead said it was in beta. damn okay

[spare flare]

i feel like trickster's ramp up damage is just worse than fatebound, at least for outlaw.

trickster only helps to get you some random unseen blade procs back to back + coup

[quick temple]

i feel like flawless form is easier to get up faster than 5 dispatches for coin into AR

[potent pivot]

The fuck are YOU on about

[spare flare]

i think it's about the same time where you get your first coup compared to your first lucky coin

if you dont use the ks

[potent pivot]

They changed it

[spare flare]

where in pvp you can't just use it like you do in pve

[quick temple]

off topic but consecration slow is so obnoxious

and its EVERYWHERE

ALL THE TIME

[spare flare]

even worse when a ret with freedom+charger is kiting you while you're slowed :c

[quick temple]

Old maneuverability would fine now

[quick temple]

sometimes i get 5 stacks almost immediately on form

[spare flare]

slow remover?

[quick temple]

yea the suppression

[spare flare]

yikes

totally forgot we had that

[severe helm]

I shared all the info, educate yourself

nerf sub

[spare flare]

coup gives max stacks no matter what so that's probably the reason

[potent pivot]

You and popo have outlaw victim mentality

[spare flare]

i don't think you ever get max stacks from just unseen procs

[severe helm]

I didnt mention outlaw once

[quick temple]

nah sometimes after a few ambushes and pistol shots i'll be at 5 stacks

in the opener

without ks

[potent pivot]

but you cry about sub every day

[severe helm]

yeah unseen blade hits give it

[severe helm]

yeah nerf sub

[quick temple]

lucky coin sometimes feel like a slog

[potent pivot]

its getting old mewo

[spare flare]

it still gives pretty good damage increase

[severe helm]

subs still op

[potent pivot]

latest nerf hasn't even gone live yet

[severe helm]

I cant wait

[potent pivot]

the bait is getting old

stfu

[last jasper]

I was spaming delves like an idiot for the last hour and a half. and the best part is, I had the last p in vault

[potent pivot]

[spare flare]

i think it's still very rng dependant compared to fatebound and in most cases it will just get you around 2 stacks of flawless till you get coup

[gleaming sentinel]

they took our niche of stunning things for mages

[quick temple]

i've been tryin to generally start but mashing dispatches til 5, then popping adr to force a coin on edge/LC and going off that letting gravedigger/zero in stack

is that the gen gameplan?

[spare flare]

in 2s or 3s that would be ideal yeah

but in a more chaotic environment like shuffle

you'd be a little behind the pace

and since outlaw's cds aren't as big as other specs but they're more frequent

i still think opening with ar on the target you stunned is still the ideal scenario

but after next reset which outlaw will get a total of 12% damage in pvp and 10% nerf to ar's damage buff you'd be less dependant on your ar but still do the same damage you do right now in ar

[severe helm]

I wouldnt even think that much about it

[quick temple]

nah?

just pve? feels mindless lol

[potent pivot]

You know bleeds got buffed and already do a lot of dmg tho right

[severe helm]

just do your pve rotation for the most part and get cc out on dr

outlaw doesnt have burst really so theres not a good reason to try to force it

[severe helm]

yeah outlaw is more like a fury warrior now

[spring bough]

Nerf sub more buff outlaw more 🔥

[severe helm]

^my man

[spare flare]

it would be a big understatement to say it doesn't have burst right now

[spring bough]

F sub

[severe helm]

nah not really

[spare flare]

but it has a lot of things that needs to be stacked

[severe helm]

if you compare outlaw to either of the other two specs its burst is comical

[spring bough]

They should hotfix it in like they did w the coin nerf

[quick temple]

and takes more effort

[severe helm]

theres no reason to try to pool for it

[spare flare]

you dont have a burst on opener

[severe helm]

itll just kill your cdr and give you less burst overall

[spare flare]

you gotta ramp up to get your burst

[spring bough]

Now it’s pray for jackpot every round

[severe helm]

yeah our biggest burst is just jackpot

I play prep and kir and fish for jackpot in solo shuffle

feels good

[spring bough]

Key build feels good not gonna lie

[severe helm]

3 LD rolls to get a jackpot

and you can play off that momentum SUPER hard

[potent pivot]

The propaganda in here lately is crazy

[severe helm]

esp in shuffle

[spring bough]

Just drop grand melee and the flurry talents

[severe helm]

same

getting deft is nice

cuz you dont lose anything

just the shitty downtime talent

so if they have any pet classes I totally pick up deft

[spare flare]

what do you even drop to get kir?

[spring bough]

Only tryna be fair to sub. Outlaw got hotfixed cause it was too much dmg w coins. Sub should get hotfixed too. Call it equal

[spare flare]

it's an even bigger gamble to play kir in shuff than playing outlaw imo

[potent pivot]

Nerf outlaw 🔥

[severe helm]

average sub player

looks at this graph

and goes

"subs fine"

[potent pivot]

It should be ZERO

[severe helm]

should nerf arcane mage too

and rsham

buff mw though

[hexed blaze]

nerf the singular augmentation evoker

[potent pivot]

the problem is they all but said they want sub to "have the toolkit for their team"

so if you just keep nerfing its damage it doesn't change a fucking thing for 3s

[spring bough]

Such an outlaw hater lmao. Outlaw got 0 CC left compared to sub and 0 dmg burst compared to sub

[severe helm]

I think that would be a more balanced place for sub

if theyre gona have that much of a toolkit

[potent pivot]

i mean i'm obviously trolling

like you guys

[severe helm]

they cant also do all that damage

I mean

[spring bough]

Take subs cheap shot talent out pls blizz

[potent pivot]

ofc

[severe helm]

pick one

nerf the cc

or nerf their damage

idc

they cant have both

its just the reality

[spare flare]

agreed

[spring bough]

Hey at least we get AoE blind back

[potent pivot]

the only spec in the game that gets that reality wow

so fair

cry me a riverrrrrrrrrrrrr

[severe helm]

what other spec has as much cc as sub while having as much damage

go ahead

ill wait

[spare flare]

stunning 2 people every 20 secs while doing the same damage as outlaw is kind of a crime

[spring bough]

WTB dreadblades back as a PvP talent for outlaw for some burst

[severe helm]

name one

[vale steppe]

You all tripping, buff fire mage, give combust 15 sec cd

[spring bough]

Ret?

[spare flare]

man i miss that

[severe helm]

ret cc compared to sub?

again ill wait

[spring bough]

They got those 2 flashy things

[potent pivot]

its not only CC, its about a heavier toolkit

[spring bough]

And a stun

[potent pivot]

mage, ret, etc

[severe helm]

mage???

compared to sub

bro

what

mage has two ccs

[spring bough]

On top of ret having what 6 defensives or something crazy

[severe helm]

dragonsbreath and sheep

[spare flare]

also they just gave dreadblades to sub rogues without the downside and also it gave them another 20% damage, it was disgusting

[potent pivot]

spammable cc

[severe helm]

also mage has less damage than sub

[potent pivot]

druid

[spring bough]

Lock with 3 diff fears and 1 is spammable

[severe helm]

druid also has less cc AND less damage than sub

[spring bough]

And an AoE stun on locks

And a pet stun

[potent pivot]

seethe and cope

[spring bough]

And a spell lock

[severe helm]

reality

nerf sub

[potent pivot]

i've never seen you cry like this mewo

[spare flare]

might wait till awc finishes for that

[potent pivot]

its downright sad

[spare flare]

gonna see a ton of rogue mages there

[spring bough]

I’d love to see outlaw become popular in PvP. Just needs even more dmg buffs

[potent pivot]

you ever seen me say nerf outlaw when it was op?

[spring bough]

Maybe when AoE blind comes back outlaw does

[spring bough]

It’s never been op?? 😭

[potent pivot]

you lie through your teeths

[spring bough]

Sorry 5 days of season 3 then hotfixed**

[spare flare]

i think it's better if they get rid of the preemptive and restless blades nerf that they did when outlaw was everywhere in awc

[potent pivot]

[spring bough]

They should un nerf coin and restless blades PvP nerfs

Then outlaw would be cracking hoes

[potent pivot]

if it was outlaw that was good right now

think about it

would you guys be crying your little hearts out

[spare flare]

nobody would notice it for a long while mate

trust

[potent pivot]

would any of us

be acting like mewo is rn

no

so its fucking cringe

[spare flare]

in week 1 of this season only 4 outlaw players were in 5000

[spring bough]

But it doesn’t have CC 😭

[potent pivot]

just imagine it was the spec with shot in the dark and vanish CDR, whatever

completely turn the situation around

[spring bough]

Add kidney to restless and I’ll stop typing

[potent pivot]

no1 would be seething

so its cringe

[spring bough]

Blind on restless too. Cloak too. And add back physical cloak

[potent pivot]

!ban @river island scam spam

[spring bough]

Oh and if they made ace full refund on top of adding more stuff to restless the complaints would be flooding in

[spare flare]

if they want outlaw to be like this rogue/brawler hybrid, they gotta improve its durability as well

[spring bough]

Evasion and feint back on CDR too while they at it

[spare flare]

also the 12.0.5 ace changes seems pretty annoying, like forcing you to put 2 points in and im not even sure where we would take that point

[potent pivot]

i'm just saying how weird it is to be acting some type of way when another rogue spec is good. its just weird behavior to me. idk.

[spring bough]

Cause sub is just sub idk

[severe helm]

ngl im pretty unbiased with that stuff I def know when my own spec needs nerfing

like disc

def needs nerfing

it does way too much damage

[spring bough]

Dps healers should have never been a thing change my mind

[severe helm]

also I cant remember a time when outlaw has ever been popular even when it was "good"

and I think if a spec is strong at the high end but unpopular its not problematic

like when sub was good int he past

[potent pivot]

it was probably at it's most popular in SL

[severe helm]

but only for good players

it didnt need nerfs

[severe helm]

yeah I think SL s3 with the vanish legendary

[potent pivot]

every other class still cried

[severe helm]

was the only time it was more popular than the others

but on the ladder it wasnt even popular still

[potent pivot]

but rogue on rogue crime

[severe helm]

which is funny

[potent pivot]

is too far

[severe helm]

I dont play favorites

sub is problematic

its too easy for how good it is

if they kept the complexity and it was strong but only in the right hands I wouldnt have an issue

[potent pivot]

this and 'too much damage for its kit' are just out of date arguments man

[severe helm]

hows o

does it not do a lot of damage for its kit?

[potent pivot]

they don't tune any other spec in the game based on those things

[severe helm]

ofc they do

[potent pivot]

they don't

[severe helm]

indirectly

yeah

based on success and popularity

[potent pivot]

brother

look at hunter last expac

and ret

they do not

[severe helm]

so what do you think they tune from

if its not power level

[potent pivot]

specs can be easy as piss and strong and popular

[severe helm]

and its not success and popularity

are they just throwing darts?

[potent pivot]

i think they just let different specs have their time in the sun

[severe helm]

but regardless of what they do or do not tune based on, my opinion of what they should tune based on is why I say sub needs a nerf

[potent pivot]

its impossible to perfectly balance this game

for blizz

[severe helm]

I hate this idea so much

0/10

[potent pivot]

we should know this by now

[severe helm]

"its our season to be op!"

quitter mentality

they need to do better

[potent pivot]

yeah but can you really say that it isn't the case?

[severe helm]

I think they arent that intentful no

I think theyre just bad at their jobs

[potent pivot]

sometimes you have to live in reality

[severe helm]

cuz if that were true

we'd see each spec get a turn

and we dont

so that just isnt the realtiy

like how often is survival the meta spec

[potent pivot]

in pvp?

[severe helm]

yeah

[potent pivot]

i thought it was pretty good often

[severe helm]

its not like theyre rotating turns

[spring bough]

Cause bicmex the 🐐

[severe helm]

surv is awful most seasons

[potent pivot]

when only 5 players play a spec

[severe helm]

the other two hunter specs have probably 2 or 3 times the number of "good" seasons

as survival

[potent pivot]

they get less turns

[spring bough]

Gotta keep the big time
Streamers happy

[severe helm]

lol the problem with that is its a self fulfilling prophecy

a spec will never be popular if its never good

[potent pivot]

rogue as a whole is such an unpopular spec

[severe helm]

not right now

[potent pivot]

but any time its popular

everyone cries so hard

[severe helm]

assa has been popular in the past

and it wasnt a big deal

its design is less problematic

than subs

[potent pivot]

i don't want to see that crying even in the rogue discord

its crazy

[severe helm]

its easier to make assa a B/A tier spec than it is sub

[spring bough]

Don’t the forums cry about rogue everyday

[severe helm]

its hard to make sub a "balanced" spec

with its design

[potent pivot]

ya and zicore keeps DMing me threads to look at

[severe helm]

it either has weak damage and good cc which means its super strong for good players and sucks for bad players

[potent pivot]

[severe helm]

or it has both

and bad players think its "balanced"

and good players know its op

subs only non op state is having weak damage cuz we all know they arent gona nerf its cc

[potent pivot]

and i don't want it to be a stun bot

like every other season ever

[severe helm]

then they need to nerf its cc

[potent pivot]

they won't

[outer sky]

Anyone who thinks assa doesn't get bitched about every bit as much as sub does when its meta is like how out of touch

[severe helm]

okay then what I said will continue to be true haha

I mean outlaw has been a stun bot for most of its life

and while it sucks

I prefer it to now

where we just have to hope for good damage tuning

or were useless

cuz "good damage" has no skill expression in midnight

its too easy to do the rotations

I wish I was a stun bot spec with bad damage

[potent pivot]

but you're a healer

[outer sky]

Man if this doesnt sum up WoW Midnight PvP lmao

[severe helm]

rofl

thats been blitz since it came out

there were people over 3k in blitz that didnt even have rival

[outer sky]

Yeah

Such a strange decision by blizzard to cap shuffle mmr but not blitz mmr

[gilded gulch]

assa gets just as much

rogue in general

[severe helm]

no clue whats going on in their pvp department

[vale steppe]

Assa or Sub in Blitz?

[spring bough]

This has been outlaw since SL and now it isn’t and doesn’t have dmg so idek what outlaws niche is anymore

[gilded gulch]

playing ctf maps

with fatebound hook

[severe helm]

sub

[spring bough]

They should just remove the garrote silence atp

[severe helm]

assa isnt great in blitz rn cuz its team fight isnt insane like it was in tww

[spring bough]

RIP AoE silence

[spring bough]

They probably forgot about blitz

Surprised they didn’t hotfix mmr for it

[dark kernel]

These make me smile so hard.

[gleaming sentinel]

Ngl if outlaw was as blatantly op as sub or mw is right now I’d be calling for nerfs yea

[spring bough]

Shhhhhh

[dark kernel]

I'm outlaw again next week ☺️

[spring bough]

We don’t tell him that

[gleaming sentinel]

Btw placement blitz games are like garbage tier holy cow

[potent pivot]

[gleaming sentinel]

Deep wind I tell everyone where to go and just stay there. What do they all do? Entire team goes mid lol

[spring bough]

Cap

[gleaming sentinel]

[spring bough]

No one knows how to play objectives they just run in and die and rinse repeat

[gleaming sentinel]

listten i supporrt my sub brothers and sisters, but its a ffucking miserable experience to play against

[potent pivot]

i feel ya

the problem is

i don't see how they could possibly change it

they won't touch dance's cd because it would bork pve and pvers would riot

even if they put shot in the dark on the class tree like we've been saying, that still ties it up to a 2 minute vanish for assa/law

which still doesn't seem fair to me tbh

i guess this ends today @severe helm

[spring bough]

Remove cheap talent

[potent pivot]

no

[gleaming sentinel]

like i have no doubt playing against outlaw in recent expanios in 2s is miserable too

[spring bough]

Yes

[potent pivot]

no

[spring bough]

Remove cheap talent and make sub only 1 min cheap CD

[potent pivot]

lets make all 3 specs reliant on nothing but damage

waow

worst thing i've heard yet

[spring bough]

That’s the way it’s going for rogue 2/3 specs already there

[potent pivot]

which is why assa/law need more cc

not the other way around

lmao

[spring bough]

It’s effectively already a 2min cheap CD for outlaw

[potent pivot]

did you read what i said a minute ago

[spring bough]

Yeah and cheap talent in rogue tree wouldn’t even help outlaw. So just remove it fairs fair

Or give all 3 rogue specs vanish CDR idk

[potent pivot]

it would if vanish went back on rb or something

exactly

[gilded gulch]

i love playing with specs

[gleaming sentinel]

its frankly the dr change imo

[gilded gulch]

that aoe stun a team

while im 40yd away

[gleaming sentinel]

is a huge part of why this sucks

[gilded gulch]

real helpful

[severe helm]

OH SHIT

they werernt even live last time I checked

dies today 1000%

[severe helm]

even if vanish was on RB though outlaw would still get just one cheap per vanish

sub gets two cheap shots every 20 seconds

its kind of a lot

[potent pivot]

u be suckin at reading context yo

[severe helm]

oh yeah even then

[potent pivot]

i'm saying they should give double cheap to all specs

[severe helm]

tbh I think that would doom all the specs

[potent pivot]

but make vanish less cd somehow

[severe helm]

to being tuned for no damage

[potent pivot]

nah

[severe helm]

thats SO MUCH cc in this environment

with how short dr is

I think the current cc of sub isnt some target to shoot for

I agree the other specs need a little boost

but Im fine with sub having more cc than the other two

but it should still be less than it has now imom

[potent pivot]

the funny thing is

i see way less complaints about spammable cc

like clone, sheep, warlocks

[severe helm]

everyone Ive talked to says it feels like more

[potent pivot]

but hella sub complaints

[severe helm]

which mathematically it is

[potent pivot]

the smart players

[severe helm]

cc is longer with a shorter reset

[potent pivot]

complain about spammable

[severe helm]

im not even talking about sub

[potent pivot]

but the majority complain about sub

[potent pivot]

ya

[severe helm]

im talking about cc in general theres a lot more cc in this meta

[potent pivot]

if u play into a druid team

u can basically get CC'd for like.. 75% of the game?

[severe helm]

yep

[potent pivot]

if they focus all their cc on you mainly

[severe helm]

im imagining a comp like sub mage rdruid

[potent pivot]

feral/mage

[severe helm]

or that yeah

fmp

its gona be so so toxic

or jungle even

[gleaming sentinel]

i think its fine if they want outlaw to be a brawler, but we gotta be a little tankier maybe idk

double vanish has helped me live tho

[potent pivot]

i think things like clone need to be made to 2 charges/20sec CD

something of that nature

[severe helm]

yeaaah thats a tough one

2 dr thing is a great change

for sure

I think just revert the dr timer shortening and see hwo it feels

[sleek arrow]

Is there any reason every top player uses double daggers for sub pvp? Thinking of using the fist wep as OH with vers/mastery

[potent pivot]

pins

running anything that isn't double daggers as sub is extremely troll

[sleek arrow]

Damn, I've been playing honor fist as OH at 1800 solo shuffle, will try double dagger now with the 2,5k coin

ty

[potent pivot]

if you see anyone else doing that, pass on the education

[sleek arrow]

Will do!

[potent pivot]

there's still a lot of ppl that don't know out there unfort

[gleaming sentinel]

It would be nice if it didn’t matter so I can offspec easier

[potent pivot]

ya weapons in this game are still way too scuffed for what the game is

don't DHs have 2 diff glaive types now too

not all glaives swap agi/int?

[gleaming sentinel]

Idk but seems we’re getting closer and closer to just ilvl and forget it

[potent pivot]

wdym

i think dungeon/raid glaives are agi+int

but a lot of swords are agi only or int only

ig its a hard thing to solve because casters need weps too so they kinda have to have int only swords/daggers etc

devourer is just rly weird for a caster

[spring bough]

https://x.com/altertimesk/status/2040836867747401866?s=46&t=YKaisWqFkCTf8y-DfuEaHw

AlterTime (@AlterTimeSK)

Impresionante encantamiento visual de arma disponible para aquellos jugadores que le den al PVP puntuado durante la Temporada 1 de Midnight.

https://t.co/GPhWRrQOYr

▶ Play video

X · Apr 5, 2026, 5:00 PM

The animation of the galactic illusion on the new warglaives is amazing

[potent pivot]

i kinda dislike that its in the middle

when on some other warglaives it doubles the enchant and puts it on each blade's end

i mean it looks sick either way, but would've been much better if it was like on other glaives

[gusty hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/trollface-gif-8242347154758580084

[proper vortex]

When was the last time we didnt had a dagger as offhand? I cant remember

[potent pivot]

you mean the last time it wasn't suboptimal to run non-dagger offhand?

had to be like legion or bfa

couldn't have been legion because of legendaries ig

idk when they made shadow techniques

a lot of people ran mace offhand in SL, even r1s, but it was already suboptimal in SL

running a slow offhand was like -50 ilvl equivalent

[spring bough]

hows that energy

[proper vortex]

This spell useful in stealth vs stealth? Just saw enemy rogue use it

[potent pivot]

Naw

That’s just a fidget spinner ability now

[proper vortex]

Haha thought so

[spring bough]

YK what i really miss.... ranged melee for outlaw

[gusty hedge]

[spring bough]

remember hitting warriors right outside their hit box

was so much fun

[gusty hedge]

I Still havent adjusted my gameplay still on go jummping in and out of range

when mages nova and walk 2 meters thinking their safe,

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1014354035526090843/1255109699636953168/tww-outlaw-no-acro.gif

[spring bough]

sad days

[gusty hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/sukuna-smile-grin-jjk-yuji-itadori-gif-18924114

[spring bough]

11% haste... ew

[gusty hedge]

SUB

[spring bough]

leveling up my outlaw gnome right now

gonna stack haste like im a crack fiend

[gusty hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/is-it-gif-20766212

[spring bough]

5 extra energy baseline and 1% haste... bout to ball out

these mages got nothing on escape artist

[gusty hedge]

[gleaming sentinel]

Unhinged

[potent pivot]

Y u kill u dps lik dis

[gusty hedge]

Mastery Outlaw/Sub rogue

[spring bough]

is this english

[gusty hedge]

i read it in a funny voice too

[spring bough]

troll voice

low haste on outlaw feels so bad leveling lol

[jolly sierra]

i am leveling in sub

lit 1 shuriken storm and i am starved

[terse cedar]

how is solo shuffle just legit 100x easier than 3v3, with my friends we literally cannot win a game, I que up solo shuffle and rn atleast I am getting 5-6 wins per shuffle

[potent pivot]

3s is much more tryhard

[spring bough]

What did ur friend do when they qued up shuffle

[gusty hedge]

i got one with liek 1% haste and im slapping everything i am 81 with full conquest tho so def gonna feel like shit once a lvl a few more lvls

[spring bough]

Cap

2 sinister GG energy

[proper vortex]

I just leveled my second rogue only pull big with dance/sectec ready

[gusty hedge]

kek run vigor tea ftw

[spring bough]

I am……

[gusty hedge]

i was legit 1 v3 other 80s and had a 10 min long fight with aa guardian druid i just couldnt kill

energy didnt feel bad idk combo points kept filling and i kept slammin

ill check rn

[jolly sierra]

had to wait till lvl 25 for that oof

[gusty hedge]

i guess with scaling it went to 8% out of ppvp combat 🔥

[spring bough]

can they just remove 1 roll from the game its so ass

[gleaming sentinel]

You guys need to stop leveling rogues right now

[spring bough]

that bad.... ?

[dark stump]

why ?

which class should we lvl up then ?

[potent pivot]

Monks

[dark stump]

i know tongue fu

[potent pivot]

[dark stump]

ok we didn't have the same ref

[dark stump]

u rlly sus man

[dark stump]

i already have one but i am hard stuck 1k6

[lime oar]

rogue is the class of all time

[potent pivot]

Lmao

[dark stump]

before they added the recupurate spell it was mandatory to have food or your level was going slow

[potent pivot]

You’ve never heard of tongue punching

?

[dark stump]

did u know there's a word in french for slaping with a certain part of the body

[potent pivot]

[dark stump]

https://giphy.com/gifs/lmao-hehe-doggy-jOZvXO9pWpsOs4lduO

[jolly sierra]

trickz got hacked

[potent pivot]

I believe it

[dark stump]

don't stop believe in

[dark stump]

life is hard

[outer sky]

You should farm that lobby

[dark stump]

ye

if only that war had more braincell and continued focusing hunt instead of going rogue

[gusty hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/this-isnt-enough-samus-paulicelli-66samus-insufficient-i-need-more-gif-21074969

[gusty hedge]

1 roll legit feels the same as no rolls

actually feels like you're losing energy

[dark stump]

in which fcking world

i lost the round

[vague latch]

they changed something about spell queue fwiw

[crude mason]

What would you target in a hunter rogue druid vs lock/sp/disc? Sapped the disc jumped the sp til it popped defensives and swapped to disc til sp came out of defensives. Just felt like a slow burn fight.

[vague latch]

if it's solo shuffle might be someone who isn't you not hitting the mark on damage

[potent pivot]

[dark stump]

depend do you survive burst damage or ramp damage

[severe helm]

Wdym

Where'd you hear that

[stoic spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/legends-of-legends-of-avantris-just-trust-me-bro-trust-me-bro-rpg-gif-1926655221305885727

[stoic spruce]

If you had a friend that casually played and wanted to try raid, what ilvl would you suggest for normal?

[severe helm]

Like what ilvl can they do it or what ilvl can they actually get accepted into a group

[stoic spruce]

Performance wise

To make up for lack of skill

I know it's normal but y'know

Normal is hard for some people

[severe helm]

Prob like 245

[rough rock]

i got kicked 3x for low damage despite saving a wipe over and over because of others not doing mechanics lol

[severe helm]

I think blizz designs for you to be able to do normal at full veteran gear

Which I think is somewhere around 245

[stoic spruce]

I see I see thank you

He was wearing a cloth chest as a hunter because it had higher ilvl

No clue where he got it

[crude mason]

The burst was pretty scary but once it was dealt with our ramping damage took over with good cc.

[crude mason]

Damn I feel bad running lfr in pvp gear, usually around 9-10 in dps at 233 ilvl.

[stoic spruce]

I miss when pvp gear was decent in pve for outlaw

Never had to worry about vers

[outer sky]

If somebody dies on both teams then both teams lose

So they also lost

[severe helm]

thats very bad

theres a passive that increases main stat if you wear your correct armor type

its just about never worth it to wear the wrong armor type

its to discourage people from trying to get loot for other armor types

[stoic spruce]

Oh I know, trust me I know. Which is crazy because the game didn't even attempt to stop him from putting it on

It's okay though, I'll put him on track

Ain't nothing some delves can't fix

[molten hedge]

anyone had clickable raid buffs not work in arena?

i have it enabled and it was working

then it stopped and its updated

[severe helm]

what does clickable raid buffs mean

[severe helm]

prey is also quite good loot for the time/effort it takes

[potent pivot]

its an addon

for clickable raid buffs/poisons

[potent pivot]

mines been fine but i haven't played in like a day

[stoic spruce]

Troo

Good shout

[severe helm]

aaaaaaaaaaah

[potent pivot]

its a dope addon too

[severe helm]

yeah thats nice

[potent pivot]

the only one that seems to work with DTB

[severe helm]

I have my poisons hotkeyed like a noob

[potent pivot]

and without having to custom set the buffs n shit

[stoic spruce]

I still use the pop out menu

[potent pivot]

i can't stand using binds or the pop out

because i'll forget way too often

[stoic spruce]

I'm blessed by being a creature of habit and reapplying often

[rough rock]

facts

[stoic spruce]

Like on dungeons, I reapply before and after every boss

[rough rock]

or years of the giant text on my screen from that addon

[potent pivot]

_>

[stoic spruce]

Playing warrior back in the day got me pressing my shit very frequently

[waxen meteor]

Warlock
Affliction
All damage done increased by 12% in PvP combat.
Unstable Affliction damage increased by 15% in PvP combat.

[rough rock]

still gonna be god awful

Has there ever been a actual dot meta with aff

[severe helm]

many times yeah

affi has had quite a few strong seasons

shadowplay

[potent pivot]

yea lol

[severe helm]

affi assa

[waxen meteor]

I feel many many time

[potent pivot]

even aff sub

[severe helm]

yep

[potent pivot]

was in awc a couple seasons ago

[severe helm]

affi might honetsly haev the most meta seasons of the 3 specs

its close

[potent pivot]

whaazz just enabling chan

[severe helm]

all 3 lock specs see play

[potent pivot]

was so strong

[severe helm]

I love aff

super fun to play

[potent pivot]

ye its one of the only casters i like

[severe helm]

I think the soul rot meta was my fav

setting up for that BIG SUCK

but it usually takes the later seasons when haste scaling is heavier

for it to kinda get going

the gcds to get stuff rolling early seasons is just a lil high

spriest, affi, ele sham are my fav 3 casters

[rough rock]

I love the fantasy of spriest and aff but i just cant stand being immobile and trained mainly cause mage is the only caster i actually ever put effort into

[dark stump]

can i say that to him?

[stoic spruce]

Do it

No balls

[dark stump]

against dh devourer and bm

can't reach them and the war with don't want to use his slow spell

then this sub species tell me that when he is the same cr as me

[dark stump]

at the end i just told he was cute

[severe helm]

you can

just press enter

[rough rock]

rdruid?

[dark stump]

ye

[rough rock]

i swear all of them are dogshit healers and whine so much

[dark stump]

the problem is trying to focus a target that's too much mobile we need everyone to rush not a healer stay near spawn while the other is not using any slow/cc

[waxen meteor]

finally start to be back to normal mmr

this blitz shit

[dark stump]

i'm curious , is it easy to reach 1k8 in blitz ?

[stoic spruce]

It's more a time commitment

[abstract stratus]

i love hieroglyphics

[stoic spruce]

Pass

If it's anything like what they did to Legion

Haaaard pass

[severe helm]

very yeah

blitz is about 1k higher rating than shuffle

eh maybe this early its like 750

so like if you can get to 1800 in shuffle you can prob get to 2.6 in blitz

[dark stump]

i'm starting to see more and more druid

in ss

[stoic spruce]

They're learning....

This may be the worst news all season

[dark stump]

wait a sec since when pal can use divine shield and pob succisively ?

[waxen meteor]

no, because you will have tremendous amount of random shit games before you can play real game, it's sometimes not even about if you are good.
if you are good, just go arena or shuffle.
tbh, i think arena currently has higher ranking than solo

your whole game is rolling a dice

if your side has 4 iq<5 players, they have 2, you lose

if your side has 3 iq<5 players, they have 5, you win

[potent pivot]

does blitz give all the same shit as shuffle

[stoic spruce]

Yeah

[potent pivot]

like elite weapons/tabard etc

thats crazy bro

[stoic spruce]

Is it?

[potent pivot]

kinda ya

u can basically sleep your way to elite in blitz

[waxen meteor]

not untrue

[stoic spruce]

WoW players love delicious poison

[potent pivot]

i'm only going off what everyone says

cuz i've never really q'd the bracket

[rough rock]

yeah getting stuck in 1800 range is massivly cancer

[potent pivot]

i played like

1 game when it came out

[rough rock]

Its a total coin flip

[potent pivot]

and said nope

[stoic spruce]

It's so ass

[waxen meteor]

i mean when i started this week, top solo is 2.1k cr, top bilitz is 2900 cr

that says enough about popularity

[potent pivot]

no

[stoic spruce]

Although I'm very anti-solo queue so I'm biased

[potent pivot]

it does not

[waxen meteor]

i mean if r1 is at 2.1 cr at solo, i am quite fine at 1.9

[potent pivot]

shuffle mmr is capped

blitz mmr isn't

[waxen meteor]

i am not sure if i am able to get close to that r1 range

[potent pivot]

thats literally the only difference

[waxen meteor]

yeah

[potent pivot]

its not about participation

[waxen meteor]

so i am playing blitz lol

even though it's bull shit

this mmr math is done by a iq<20 dude

[rough rock]

"Lose 50 then win 3 in row and MAYBE one of those games youll get +11"

[potent pivot]

they probably don't even realize they left blitz uncapped

[rough rock]

I stopped playing it after getting stuck and getting 0 rating for a win

Not how mmr should work idk why wow doesnt adopt the same ranking way overwatch and every other game does

[waxen meteor]

the problem is this mode, when you play mmr = 1500

it's not a game

as i said

it's rolling dice with 50% of iq<5 people

when you call them to d on a flag game, they sit in room to 'd'

[rough rock]

I dont think wow devs would even understand how per person performance would be calculated

[waxen meteor]

it's not

[rough rock]

I know, yet every other game in the world can

[waxen meteor]

and honestly i don't think victory point contributes to mmr anyway

[dark stump]

https://giphy.com/gifs/2GjTdNHnmk2IM

[fathom crag]

bgs mmr are weird it’s the same in rbgs

it’s mainly placement

[rough rock]

it doesnt

neither does per person performance

which is a issue

[dark stump]

well making a competitive mode 10-15 people need to work together when in ss people find it hard to make it work with 3

[potent pivot]

Wdym

Like based on what mmr your placements put you?

[dark stump]

it's calling for me

[dark stump]

placement meaning you win depending ur placement or do u mean something else

[potent pivot]

Every bracket has “placement games”

[dark stump]

oooh

[potent pivot]

Like the first 10-15 games you queue, the system is trying to place your mmr

[waxen meteor]

solo shuffle first placement game is huge too

blitz actually doesnt matter

i started this season hard reset 1500, with 3w 0l

[fathom crag]

you gain so much mmr for no reason in blitz / rbgs placement

[waxen meteor]

and my 4th game was at 1200mmr

and with a bunch of bozos

[fathom crag]

@potent pivot u would win 200 mmr for a win in placement rbgs/blitz it’s so fucked

[fathom crag]

just winning a game in placement

[potent pivot]

Ahh. Lmao

[waxen meteor]

don't joke pls

[potent pivot]

How fast are blitz boosts then

I bet they’re fast af

[fathom crag]

very fast

[waxen meteor]

the problem is actually first few games do NOT decide MMR

[fathom crag]

if someone wants a elite boost or any reward people do it in blitz in general

[waxen meteor]

AT ALL

ONLY after you are after like 30 games

it's like +-100 per w/l

[potent pivot]

Wut

[fathom crag]

blitz placement are like 30 games yea idk who thought that was a good idea

u go 10-0 ur super high then 1 loss and insane minus like -300 mmr

[potent pivot]

Jesus

[waxen meteor]

yes

and because blitz has no cap

everyone has high cr

everyone plays it

they might think they did a good design

[fathom crag]

🤣

these ppl working at blizzard have no idea what’s going on

[waxen meteor]

you sort of have to play 30 games before you can play

[fathom crag]

it’s only a season 1 thing tho cus u keep the mmr from last but season 1 or any fresh char later on is cooked

30 placement is too much

[stoic spruce]

I thought it was 20

[fathom crag]

maybe they reduced a bit but TWW s1 was 30

[potent pivot]

I heard from someone it was like 15

But I don’t even remember where I heard it

[fathom crag]

not sure but tww was 100% 30

[potent pivot]

How do you even tell at that point

[waxen meteor]

you dont

[fathom crag]

cus any win u gain insane amount of mmr, after placement it’s normla amount

eventually it’s fine but the start is really weird

[potent pivot]

ic

[waxen meteor]

Guys, do not try to make sense of something that doesn't

Your user experience is HORRIBLE

[potent pivot]

[waxen meteor]

Imagine you are not playing a class like rogue

that at least has bigger impact

like if you are playing a SP

Mama mia

[dark stump]

praise the fool

[fathom crag]

sp actually good in some skirmish map but like warrior solo qing u have 0 impact full relying on rnging the good teams

[stoic spruce]

He could be any one of us...

[dark stump]

guess why i lost first round

[waxen meteor]

I feel all healer dependent class are all feeling worse

like you got a noob healer

then gg

for us

fine, we can still play our game in a way

Like Gilneas is pretty much our home court

[stoic spruce]

Outlaw?

[stoic spruce]

Kinda crazy the gap between specs that are good and bad in a solo shuffle setting

Like outlaw for instance

Terrible option for shuffle

But in 3s?

Amazing

Some specs just do better in coordinated groups

[dark stump]

nop the sp with is just dumb

i put the dh low 4 times i get stun/root he can't finish him off

[stoic spruce]

Rip

[dark stump]

ok i rage quit monk i'm gonna play pal

playing melee is just terrible with the way cc work

dk maybe since they can just grab

[dark stump]

outlaw ended 4-2

[vocal surge]

What's his name?

[stoic spruce]

Based

What was his damage

[dark stump]

i disc so the logs are lost

[stoic spruce]

Good lord

I hate this

So so much

What does blizzard think we use this for??

[rough rock]

never really played 3s but with current outlaw are you just queing with someone playing something broken?

Or is it just locked to melee comps

[stoic spruce]

I mean historically

Idk about now

PvE pants are on rn

[rough rock]

I know historically lol

[stoic spruce]

Oh reread it

I've been playing melee cleaves

Whatever friend is on atm

WW/Ret/Unholy

(ik ret isn't melee but blizz classifies it as melee so I will call it melee)

[stoic spruce]

Dazed playing with a mage so if you have a mage friend I'd look into that.

[potent pivot]

he's been playing sub

with kalv's mage

[stoic spruce]

Earlier in the season

Now idk

What's kalv playing

[potent pivot]

wdym

he's been playing sub/frost/surv that i've seen

like his alts

[stoic spruce]

I see

[potent pivot]

val is playing outlaw rn

outlaw rmp with cvarks

cvarks on arcane ofc

[stoic spruce]

How are they doing

I digress, my point is outlaw is better in 3s than shuffle

Over got me doing side convos

Monologing even

[molten hedge]

hows it going

[potent pivot]

idk

i saw them lose 1 game and end stream

kek

[ionic crown]

make outlaw great again

[stoic spruce]

Because it's so good right?

Right..?

[potent pivot]

rmmw vs rmp

or rmmw vs wwmmw

[potent pivot]

he did decent dam

[stoic spruce]

Interesting

[dark stump]

moga ?

[stoic spruce]

I wouldn't mind a buff

Not too big a buff though, I'd like to remain under the radar

[vocal surge]

Its time....

https://tenor.com/view/dragon-ball-super-saiyan-goku-gif-5009523

[dark stump]

am i only one who think that ww is a canon glass dependant on if the other dps can either stun the healer or execute the target ?

[stoic spruce]

A WW is as tanky as they are good at kiting

A good WW is nigh unkillable

We are also in that boat btw

[dark stump]

https://giphy.com/gifs/spongebob-squidward-rKj0oXtnMQNwY

[stoic spruce]

Me?

I don't play ret

[dark stump]

was talking about me

[stoic spruce]

Smh

You can't plant that seed

[dark stump]

well i always retreat behind pillar to get healer by my healer but i always lose since either my other dps die or can't execute even tough i put the tar low 4 time in a row

[potent pivot]

their defensive is getting buffed kek

[dark stump]

or i get slow-rooted-fear-stun-fear etc...

[stoic spruce]

[potent pivot]

i want to see someone play mmmwww

[dark stump]

i was in that lobby

[stoic spruce]

I thought my contacts were blurry

[dark stump]

let's that the warlock against us was deleted 2 times

[potent pivot]

its kinda crazy that like

[dark stump]

?

[potent pivot]

touch of death just exists

[dark stump]

touch of death sometimes light up sometimes don't and i just get chain cc

https://giphy.com/gifs/moodman-monkey-side-eye-sideeye-H5C8CevNMbpBqNqFjl

[potent pivot]

it already got buffed

[dark stump]

ooooooh

[potent pivot]

this past reset ye

[potent pivot]

u get chain cc'd because everyone is scared shitless

u get 1 good line up and delete ppl in 2 globes

[dark stump]

hehe

[potent pivot]

kick->touch->dead already

[dark stump]

tought i would find it fun but playing melee specially when i still don't use roll right is hard

[potent pivot]

wdym

[dark stump]

the combo is rising sun kick- zenith - weapon of the wind - shadow kick - double rising sun kick

[dark stump]

sometimes i roll too far or sometimes i roll and i have a dk with me who grab the target

[potent pivot]

just jump and press roll midair

pro strat

[dark stump]

or sometime i roll two times and forget to double jump

my nightmare are the root and slow

[potent pivot]

u have freedom

[stoic spruce]

We don't need another WW out there trickz what are you doing?

I'm about to push on my dk!

You crazy??

[vague latch]

hey dumb question i can't see defensives with sarena or mini cc is there something i'm missing or do i need another addon

[severe helm]

fr WW will say theyre squishy and then never port defensively

I think theyre kinda squishy to casters though

[stoic spruce]

Yeah true

Granted it's a rough season all around for melee

[vocal surge]

Regained my rating

after giving that game throwing Warlock his Ls

Man did 0 damage

and pressed 0 defensives

the 2nd round he was with me

I literally WENT ULTRA MODE

getting that 2nd dub

When I mean Ultra

I popped the Mage's defensives multiple times

The 1st game outside of the Lock being in my team

We had the most scuffed match

where we sat inside their side of the waiting room

effectively the whole game

No one walked into the middle of the arena at all

besides us to get to them

[stoic spruce]

That's so annoying

Pvp channels love reminding me why I don't shuffle

[vocal surge]

Of course, I reported him

after those 2 games

[stoic spruce]

So bad

[vocal surge]

Yeee

He played normally after his 2 rounds with me

[stoic spruce]

[vocal surge]

Quite literally a game thrower

[potent pivot]

What defensives

[dark stump]

what did i miss ?