pvp

[gusty hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/hang-first-time-smiles-gif-14991372

[potent pivot]

cope

all i did was say what came out of someone else's mouth

[proven field]

I dunno blizz changed it so PvP modifier on WM gear is honor level

[potent pivot]

who happened to agree with what was said

[outer sky]

Ok man lmao

[potent pivot]

they're the same ilvl as honor gear

so just pointless really

[tame barn]

ok

ty

[gusty hedge]

they are looking at baseline ilvl stats rather than scaled stats. thinking its better

[severe helm]

Nerf sub more tbh

I don't want to even see one

[outer sky]

They probably will on friday

[severe helm]

Good

[potent pivot]

..........

[proven field]

Unnerf Implacable strikes for assa

[potent pivot]

both of you have been insufferable this season

holy

[severe helm]

Rework sub into a support spec

[potent pivot]

your main specs are bad

so its like everything you say is to ragebait me or something

[severe helm]

I'm maining disc

Having a blast

[outer sky]

Haven't you been gaslighting that assa isnt that bad and im just upset?

[severe helm]

Assa isn't bad

[proven field]

This is in general a grumpy disc… you go into evoker and its nicest place around

[potent pivot]

go play assa and stop being cringe

[sick moth]

im between trying disc or mw! disc cool?

[severe helm]

Disc is v fun

[outer sky]

But because your doomer predictions were wrong now im just upset because its bad? Like what 🤣

[potent pivot]

this one usually is too

[potent pivot]

can you cope any harder?

[maiden gull]

sub is broken

does everything better than every other rogue spec

[terse cedar]

how has this guy put a gem in his helm? I dont have a gem slot for this exact piece,,,>

[maiden gull]

more cc and more tanky than outlaw

mor emovement speed than outlaw

more burst and sutained dmg than assa

[outer sky]

Theres no magic number of times you can say that to randomly change the tuning lol

[potent pivot]

if you made it from PvE you have to use a PvE socket from vault coins

[outer sky]

Realistically I hope blizzard agrees with you

So we dont get more nerfs friday

[potent pivot]

if you can't see whats plainly visible idk what to tell you

[gusty hedge]

galactic gem setting u can buy for 3 helio gems and 5k honor

[terse cedar]

Just used the conq headpiece and made it into a tierpiece

[outer sky]

The irony

[terse cedar]

ah, didnt know that

[proven field]

PvP materials vendor sells sockets

[potent pivot]

then you buy a pvp socket setting from the vendor

[gusty hedge]

helio *gems are so cheap can buy off ah for 1k-2k. just farm honor and its ez slots

[proven field]

Unlike enchants which come with mortgages

[potent pivot]

steady dropping

[proven field]

How does that drustvar thing work, is it just aggregating movement vs peers?

[gusty hedge]

law/aug down with the healers and tanks 🔥

[outer sky]

Yeah you shared this yesterday. I didnt say it wasnt noticeable lol youre trying to argue against a point im not making for some weird reason

[proven field]

I miss that French kid who used to write whole trends on PvP seasons - anyone remember those

[jaunty osprey]

I literally died 100-0 to a sub rogue yday by himself

[outer sky]

Idk if it has more burst than assa kingsbane but it definitely has more damage more often

[potent pivot]

the thing about sub that maybe you don't realize. once modifiers are nerfed even slightly too much, it falls off a cliff

[jaunty osprey]

Sub mains are dooming for 0 reason

[outer sky]

Me too. And ive globaled people yesterday too.

[potent pivot]

in pve gear or

or was it wpvp

[outer sky]

Stop "coping" lmao

Its just a stun bot 😉

[maiden gull]

why does sub everthing better than every other rogue spec, thats what pissed me off the most, the playstyle is boring af

[potent pivot]

everyone saying this mains other specs

strange

[halcyon timber]

Provide system logs for these claims regarding all categories please.

[gusty hedge]

[outer sky]

Also most of them aren't dooming. Trickz and maybe a couple streamers are. Most people are aware enough to realize its more than fine

I think theyre sandbagging to try and avoid more nerfs friday

[potent pivot]

It’s not even dooming

[outer sky]

Which may be smart actually

[potent pivot]

No one ever said it wasn’t “good” or “viable”

No one is arguing it’s “bad”

[gusty hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-perfectlybalanced-gif-18301221

[potent pivot]

The problem is that sub always gets nerfed into feeling like a stun bot

When you can’t close out real games with your own damage contribution, that’s when you get that feeling

[outer sky]

Which hasn't happened. And like you, im hoping it DOESNT happen friday.

[potent pivot]

The meta is leaned way more towards ww, enh, mage, etc now

[maiden gull]

take away the double CS talent and we gucci

[outer sky]

Fuck no

[potent pivot]

Gtfo with that shit

[proven field]

I still feel like I have to play my ass off the moment a sub is on me and know they can murder me almost instantly if I don’t pre-plan.. as assa I can kill them too (especially because I fight hundreds of subs and they fight four assas), but they seem pretty powerful still (keeping in mind I am 2k Andy)

[maiden gull]

will happen

mark my words

[potent pivot]

The thing is, it’s already starting to, yes

[gusty hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/i-couldnt-agree-more-john-krasinski-saturday-night-live-youre-absolutely-correct-thats-right-gif-20212746

[outer sky]

Oh I get it

[maiden gull]

or dance will go on a 30 sec cd

[outer sky]

Yeah you're right 😉 😉

Its already a stun bot

No more nerfs please

Mission accomplished

https://tenor.com/view/feel-me-think-about-it-meme-gif-7715402

[outer sky]

It probably will. They've been pruning the class' CC for like 6 years idk why they'd stop now. Meanwhile ret will get a cheat death that auto procs bubble for them so they stop dying without using it

[maiden gull]

they dont even care about rogue tbh

look at the mess outlaw and assa are

[potent pivot]

and where did you "global" someone? a 2k blitz lobby where they didn't have trinket/wall bound?

[ionic crown]

still deathstalker has bugs?

[outer sky]

No lmao not everything that doesnt validate what you already made up your mind about before the tuning even went live is some niche situation with no relevance like youre trying to make it out to be

[proven field]

Holy crap if you hit 2k in shuffle right now you are in 99.6th percentile - damn

[potent pivot]

its not that its bugged now, just that they made swapping the mark way more aids

[potent pivot]

deflecting

[outer sky]

Not really but okay lol

[proven field]

You guys are arguing over a feeling like 60 people will actually be good enough to notice

[potent pivot]

L0l

real

i'm gonna go to bed cuz i'm tired of Starlinkgamr's SHIT

[proven field]

You are just jealous of his ability to game on top of mountains and in jungles

[potent pivot]

lmao

[outer sky]

If you can sleep with these gamebreaking nerfs on your mind 😉

[gusty hedge]

still lives rent free Tww S1, Glad Shadowey duel is gone

[outer sky]

I think they could have redesigned duel. Like, the problem was getting killed in it. But it was a pretty interesting ability. They could have made it so you cant attack during it. Then it would have still been usable for healer CC

or to yeet the kill target while you wait for healer DRs

[proven field]

Old school throwback - one of my favourite vanilla wow rogue vids: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2hci8WwkNuk

[hardy prairie]

one more sub nerf and imma reroll hunter ffs

[outer sky]

Get your hunter ready for friday

[proven field]

What happens first

Friday

[outer sky]

Tuning notes

[vale steppe]

damn the nerfs is notable, i feel like i do no dmg lol

[proven field]

No

Don’t do it

[outer sky]

yeahhhh no lol

[wanton breach]

at least rogue is getting some attention in pvp (somehow)

[outer sky]

The one thing Trickz is right about here is that its true that every time sub does high damage it does get nerfed into "stun bot" territory

and this last round of nerfs very clearly did not accomplish that

so if history is an indicator then they should get another round of nerfs friday

[vale steppe]

you dont notice the nerfs?!

[outer sky]

I do but not much

[vale steppe]

u mastery or haste?

[outer sky]

Thats what most people are saying

[outer sky]

both

haste to a point then mastery

[vale steppe]

1 or 2 gcd?

[outer sky]

Get your conquest weapon if you didnt already it helps a lot

[vale steppe]

nah i got it

[outer sky]

have 1 rogue with 1 gcd 1 with 2

[vale steppe]

i played 2 gcd, time to swap to 1 i believe

[outer sky]

May not be bad. But I'd give it a few more days to see how things play out

honestly would probs wait until friday

for tuning notes

[vale steppe]

more tuning?

[outer sky]

they may nuke the spec

[outer sky]

yeah

[vale steppe]

i mean one more sub nerf and its over

[outer sky]

yeah thats probably fair

right now its still doing enough damage every dance to be threatening

[vale steppe]

if i dont get followup in shuffle no way anything dies

[outer sky]

if it gets a meaningful nerf friday

we're fucked

[outer sky]

well thats kinda how its supposed to be

[vale steppe]

true tho

i mean even with followup, nothing dies XD

[outer sky]

you probably shouldnt be able to out damage a free casting healer's heals

with your 20s CDs

[outer sky]

what rating are you playing at?

[vale steppe]

2k

but lets see, looks like im about to drop

[outer sky]

shuffle?

[vale steppe]

ye

[molten hedge]

Even if it is a stun bot, what was outlaw the previous seasons? And it was good with a pumper

[vale steppe]

im down 150 mmr so far today, so im working myself down

[jaunty osprey]

Im a big sub main

[molten hedge]

The difference is outlaw was hard to play. Subs not

[vale steppe]

assa does insane amount of dmg tho, i might try that more

imma give this week for sub, if i dont feel it, imma go assa i think

[outer sky]

youre wasting your time. He already decided this on Friday

[molten hedge]

@outer sky ⬆️

[outer sky]

?

[molten hedge]

@outer sky Even if it is a stun bot, what was outlaw the previous seasons? And it was good with a pumper. The difference is outlaw was hard to play. Subs not

And another difference is sub can actually contribute during blades. Outlaw needed all the stars to align for mediocre damage

[vale steppe]

are we speccing out of Replicating shadows?

[molten hedge]

I highly doubt it

[vale steppe]

just swap for weaponmaster, seems easy

[gleaming sentinel]

https://tenor.com/view/reluctantly-alonzo-mourning-shakes-head-disappointed-gif-5692869

[grave basin]

@outer sky ok that last round was bs

LMAO ggs though

got ma 1800

[outer sky]

You took the bait idk lol

but yeah fuck assa

[grave basin]

no bomb and my healer wasnt in cc

[outer sky]

he was on the other side of the pillar

you chased me too far

[grave basin]

bro i just fsk straight line

[outer sky]

its shuffle

i had to deal with AoE bleed cleanse from the Mistweaver

[grave basin]

yea the feral was mentioning it as well

[outer sky]

lmao so troll

[olive sequoia]

https://klipy.com/gifs/copium-meme

im hoping they haven't done anything for sin this entire time because they're working on a big rework

[grave basin]

i told him youre getting CLOUDED

[outer sky]

its a dog shit mechanic

that needs to not remove dots

[grave basin]

they literally didthat to blinding light for rets

cause ret affix was too strong

[outer sky]

ye

[proven field]

I actually don’t mind assa’s playstyle for PvP - pump big bleeds, roll envenoms, kingsbane implacable peoples face off.. the balancing of these abilities is annoying but spec feels fun to play (pve very boring though - esp M+)

[grave basin]

rot style doesnt work when theres so much burst in burst meta imo

[outer sky]

the problem with assa right now is you need to be enabled almost like a caster

[proven field]

Rubs are shit like someone cleansing your entire go, and builders being effectively worthless

[outer sky]

bleeds arent doing enough damage

you have no CC

burst is lower than it was last season

[proven field]

Agreed the balancing is the issue - but the actual playstyle is pretty fun - we just don’t have a real burst button without high uptime

[vale steppe]

feels like kingsbane + mark deletes about everything?

[outer sky]

it does like 60 ish % of someones health pool but you cant cross CC your own go

at least not usually

[proven field]

If the stars align and the other person doesn’t see it coming I can delete someone with full bleeds and DM and KB with implacable, but no one sits through it anymore

[vale steppe]

you still have stepkidney, gouch blind?

[proven field]

But with implacable nerf it’s more like…60-70% now

[outer sky]

if you send kidney on the healer you dont have CC for the kill target unless you have a vanish

[grave basin]

i like how rogue elite set is w/e that leveling set

[vale steppe]

if it wasnt for the nerf i think assa would be in a really good spot but idk

[grave basin]

and monk set is literal demon god

[outer sky]

cheap shot change needs to be reverted

[proven field]

Yeah inability to use CS because of DR is most annoying I’d say

[maiden gull]

outlaw needs 20 sec kidney back

and restless blades as it was

and speed on hook

[proven field]

You can silence but half the specs will immediately blow instant CC because of sub ptsd

[maiden gull]

Remove BTW pvp modifier

And would still be worse than sub

[outer sky]

Ive played assa and outlaw just a bit this season and my impression is that neither of them even feel like finished specs. They both play like theres a ton of shit missing from them as if their design is only half complete

[maiden gull]

i played outlaw 500 arena games, and its just sad

[proven field]

Bake assa garrote into 5 sec stun

[maiden gull]

feels half asses, all the nerfs from the last 3 xpacs are still there while the class plays completly differnt

Why does outlaw have 3 min cd on smokebomb

[outer sky]

assa you literally dont do jack shit besides try and set up a kingsbane one shot. Hope a WW monk trinkets bomb like a script then follows you out of LoS of his healer at 75% hp so you can kidney>kingsbane him

[outer sky]

so does assa

[maiden gull]

yeah makes no sense

outlaw even has nerfed feint pvp talent

[grave basin]

surely no one is that dumb..

[maiden gull]

less movespeed than sub

hook feels terrible

[outer sky]

even after they got rid of the CDR on feint which is the reason their feint pvp talent was nerfed to begin with, its still nerfed

[maiden gull]

the apex talent should be 100% to get a bullet in your sleeve after 5 cp

[proven field]

I’ve skipped shuffle this season but typically rot only works when healers can OOM, and zicore’s right there isn’t enough dot pressure to ever do that

[maiden gull]

yeah makes no sense, and we got nothing besides our major def cd´s to get out of snares and roots

[proven field]

In blitz I think you can have fun with assa - I’ve been humming along and KB goes work well on FCs, nodes etc

[maiden gull]

"toe to toe" yeah im standin my toes in my arese waiting in nova

Restless blades and BTE still have a 0.8 pvp modifier

no one knows why

[proven field]

And sudden demise is actually legit in team fights

[maiden gull]

was the most fun class by far, but rn its just frustrating

[outer sky]

unless they revert the cheap shot change we wont get enough tuning to make it good

[lime oar]

nerf did nothing sub is still insane INSANE

i don’t even need a global to kill someone 100-0

[outer sky]

ok its still really strong damage but its not 100-0 in under a global strong lol

[dark kernel]

It's not just saying that kind of stuff that is not right

[halcyon timber]

Deadly pursuit is deceptively frequent + triple threat / jackpot show up consistently with Sleight of Hand + Loaded dice.

Dragon bone dice + t3/t4 is 40% added CDR and Deadly Pursuit multiplying that state by 200% is strong.

Too frequent CDR would result in reductions somewhere.

[outer sky]

Yeah we need to be extremely careful with outlaw. Its clearly right on the verge of totally dominating the meta

[gusty hedge]

@spring bough @stoic spruce Remembering the Good Times

[rough rock]

Not to mention after you get 6 stacks it starts counting down its own timer while if you get another stack the aura says it’s at 30 seconds left lmao

[spring bough]

Am I gonna get hacked clicking this

[maiden gull]

yeah had it several times in arena with 10 stacks, and then there i sno doubble procc gg 😄

[gusty hedge]

no but let me fix that , idk why it didnt upload video lmao

[halcyon timber]

Thats not an opinion , if system side showed repeated high stacking bte + x amps outpacing enemy reactions as history demonstrated in prior seasons - something gets reduced.

[maiden gull]

how are you taking all these talents? you play withoout apex talents?

[rough rock]

Yeah it’s dumb

Huge oversight

[maiden gull]

whole specc feels half assed

[rough rock]

Just play sub, press two buttons and win

[halcyon timber]

Apex Gravedigger is included.

[maiden gull]

even then you have to play with double vanish , since vanish is not on cdr and then you got no burst or dps left

[gleaming sentinel]

I’m too busy getting declined from keys to know how bad we are in PvP. But I am 16-8 so far in shuffle

[lime oar]

https://tenor.com/view/joke-missed-over-your-head-gif-8604199

[maiden gull]

what even is thios talent

why do we have to use a talent point for 10% chance

[maiden gull]

what points would you switch for arena then?

[rough rock]

Turns 25% into 35%

[grave basin]

atleast you have talents that work

[maiden gull]

should be baseline

[grave basin]

i have talents in the monk tree that literally does not work

[maiden gull]

lazy design

[rough rock]

Yes because 2 buttons 1 shot everyone

[grave basin]

this is in the general tree

[rough rock]

They had to nerf it somehow

[grave basin]

why is a talent only usable by one hero talent in the general tree

[halcyon timber]

That is up to you to decide for yourself.

[maiden gull]

😄

thanks i guess

[rough rock]

A lot of things on outlaw should be baseline

[maiden gull]

Another thin, why do we have to decide if we want 15% hp or 15% movement speed? 😄

[static holly]

Did I miss something or why does everyone every round put the healer in combat and don't let me sap?
Told them and yet the run in and aoe etc 😑

[rough rock]

Even if they buff damage to be reasonable it’ll still be dog water

[maiden gull]

What even is the choice here

[severe helm]

It's always been this way

[maiden gull]

Acrobatic strikes absolute dogshit aswell

[halcyon timber]

Factually

• loaded dice, improved adrenaline rush, and Deadly pursuit are strong. It is an accelerative engine that builds compounding damage events.

[rough rock]

I’d run deft manv btw

[maiden gull]

true that

[rough rock]

Helps a lot with zero in

Take 1 point out of ace

And drop it into deft

[grave basin]

first time?

[maiden gull]

all the blade flurry stuff should be baseline

[grave basin]

do you also expect warriors to not double stun dr stormbolt your kill target too

[maiden gull]

wont be possible anymore in 12.5

[rough rock]

It will

[severe helm]

Bro lower your God damn mouse sensitivity

Holy fuck

[gusty hedge]

[maiden gull]

but why should deft maneuvers help? do i understand the talent wrong?

[grave basin]

he's copying whaaz

with the mouse thingy

[static holly]

No but it's just stupid. Like throwing and not healing because you killed them last round 😵‍💫

[gusty hedge]

thats just how ive always played, speeed speed

[rough rock]

Faster auto attacks = more chance at zero in procs

Oh I’m dumb

Wrong name

[maiden gull]

deft maneuvers increases the dmamage of blade flurry bro

[rough rock]

The talent to the left of adr

Is what I meant

[maiden gull]

Acrobatic strikes

[rough rock]

Yes

[maiden gull]

is damage not attack speed

attapck speed would be good

the point is wasted imho

[rough rock]

Idk why I thought it was speed lmao

[maiden gull]

because it would make sense

😄

[rough rock]

But ngl everyone runs it

[maiden gull]

yeah i know but doesnt mean its good

[rough rock]

Auto attacks are a solid amount of our damage

[maiden gull]

burst is what counts imho

[rough rock]

Well we don’t have burst

[maiden gull]

and we will get 42% chance on bte proccs with 12.5

[maiden gull]

we do with AR and supercharger

i crit people for 200k

but psst

[rough rock]

Supercharger is lame

Such a dumb talent

Rather have vanish so I can live longer

[maiden gull]

without htat outlaw woul dbe unplayable for me

[severe helm]

outlaw is unplayable period

[maiden gull]

got to 1850

and hit a brick wall

[gusty hedge]

thats how it feels rn 😭 doesnt feel like rogue at all , only when in stealth

[maiden gull]

even then, what are you doing

1 cs

thats it

[gusty hedge]

@spring bough Last one, Tww s1 before ks rework(idk if its even s1 at this point lmao)

they've shoulda just tuned it with what he had in TWW but too many pve andies on forums crying about it

[crisp imp]

so i got tier legs out of vault. i can only make it pvp with that item for conq points, not with a catalysator charge right?

[rough rock]

https://tenor.com/view/diego-awkward-puppets-nxk-slot-machine-casino-gif-26842542

[severe helm]

It's just a shitty fury warrior

[maiden gull]

wanna cry when i see this

so fun and fluid

lol

[rough rock]

Chat is this real

Or April fools

[grave basin]

april fools bro

[rough rock]

[obsidian pulsar]

🙂

[gusty hedge]

it used to feel so good

[maiden gull]

yeah sadly

[proven field]

There honestly doesn’t feel like there’s enough between fury, surv and outlaw to make all three individual and fun in the game’s current state

Like you could kill one and push the choices into talent nodes for the other two and make two specs fucking awesome

[maiden gull]

just make crackshot work with AR

[proven field]

Sacrifice surv, give us guns and bombs, give BM pet stuff, give fury the strikes

https://tenor.com/view/braveheart-mel-gibson-scotland-gibson-scottish-gif-21954284

[maiden gull]

and what even is Killing spree 😄

no one uses this shit

[maiden gull]

because it was to complicated?

[hybrid vessel]

do we want 4p in pvp?

[quick temple]

im confused top outlaws play cold blooded killer on murlok

i dont understand what they bring without without a trace

or how they live into anything

[stoic spruce]

Gotta make new ones

[gusty hedge]

[proven field]

Outlaw identity sanitized to bread sandwich levels

Nothing inside just two pieces of white bread slapped together and wrapped in tin foil

[stoic spruce]

Only 2 Outlaws at 2k in 3s

But one takes the other

[proven field]

Those dudes are 2400 sub players who just enjoy rolling them bones - I don’t think you can even take their builds as what to do

[stoic spruce]

Yeah, just want that free r1 spot

I also wouldn't take advice from outlaws that seem to have a masive uptime on stage 1 buff

[severe helm]

tbh the top players arent always the best theory crafters

and for the most part your talent selection isnt that big a deal

outlaw is doing no damage or no damage its about the same

also I wonder why murlok says tea is a 2 point talent

weird bug

[gleaming sentinel]

Double vanish is the move, I’ve been saying it since 95

[severe helm]

wait a sec

you cant have all of those

those talents dont make sense

[stoic spruce]

That's 2 different rogues

[severe helm]

AAAAh lol was gona say

[stoic spruce]

3s

[severe helm]

one is running CB

[stoic spruce]

Lol

[severe helm]

one is running vanish

it doesnt matter

2nd vanish really doesnt matter that much its just one cheap shot

its not like vanish cd is lower

its one extra vanish per match

thats it

[rough rock]

+1

[rough rock]

I don’t care about the cheap charge it’s just more survivability

[severe helm]

barely even accomplishes that

[stoic spruce]

It's been saving my ass so idk

Gets me out of roots that every class has for some reason

Not every but it feels like it

[dark stump]

what did i miss ?

[stoic spruce]

Chad pvp channel name

[stoic spruce]

April 1st

[dark stump]

oooh

[hybrid vessel]

yo are we supposed to craft weps with vers/mastery and do whatever with the tokens?

[outer sky]

spend the tokens now

buy your conq weapons

then when youre fully conq geaered you can craft weapons with better stats

[grave basin]

i like how one season blizzard randomly realises people want mastery conquest daggers

puts them on the vendor

then never does it again

[stoic spruce]

I thought about that while gearing up

Made think about stuff

[grave basin]

my sv/ww/dk doesnt need to recraft shit

theres mastery and haste 2handers and mastery 1handers

then randomly crit daggers

[proven field]

I just don’t get why they csnt just make weapons of all flavours

Especially daggers which almost always have a use for mastery

[outer sky]

No whats even worse is that you cant even play every spec of your class with the conq weapons

thats such a shit design

like Outlaw needs a slow weapon in the miain hand but assa needs 2 fast weapons

some classes have different primary stats

cant play holy pally and ret pally with the same weapons

nor WW monk and MW monk

[stoic spruce]

I mean tbh why even have gear atp

[grave basin]

im down for atleast minimum full honor gear to be free

[stoic spruce]

No gear

[grave basin]

grinding honor when youre new to pvp just to get your asshole ripped apart isnt good design

[stoic spruce]

Also need a battle pass and Nikki Minaj skin

WoW bucks

[grave basin]

ryu and ken skin when

[proven field]

Fury having to buy two 1800 weapons prolly most hilarious
And bullshit

[grave basin]

id kill to have a chun li skin lol

[proven field]

Guile haircut and theme music every time I enter an instance

[gusty hedge]

gives us valeer mog and call it a wash

[stoic spruce]

Beavis and Butthead skin as well

[grave basin]

akuma when

hell give me prime baki

[stoic spruce]

Snack detected

[gusty hedge]

Top 2 Blood elves! Sylvanas/Valeera

i mean i guess sylvanas is tech a High elf?

[quick temple]

yea at the end the day theres no secret talent combo

bad tuning is bad

stuff like smokebomb cd and feint negative mods show they didnt do a pass at all on the spec

[outer sky]

tuning doesnt matter. too much of its kit was gutted.

You cant give it enough damage to compensate

Fridays notes could literally say "Outlaw: All damage increased by 150%" and nothing would change

[quick temple]

150% buff would put us in line with reg damage

[outer sky]

Make it 200%. Still wouldnt change shit

[quick temple]

rushing wind kicks are doing numbers like 200k btw lol

[outer sky]

Assa isnt much better btw

Its better yes

but not by much

you just waddle around waiting for kingsbane and unless you have very coordinated teammates it just gets passively healed through

[stoic spruce]

What on earth do you base this on?

[outer sky]

How bad outlaw is

[stoic spruce]

Idk what midnight did to you but you need to go see someone and get it fixed

[gusty hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/xal'atath-xalatath-xal'atath-awakens-xal'atath-grin-xal'atath-warcraft-gif-5653760385507889562

[languid ravine]

is outlaw shit again in pvp too?

[vale steppe]

ofc

[outer sky]

Worse than shit

[stoic spruce]

It's the first time it's been bad since cata

[tame barn]

guys is 613 haste good ?

is it enough?

[gusty hedge]

!stats

[lethal roost]

These are the recommended stat priorities for each spec in PvP. Please keep in mind that having suboptimal stats on some pieces such as tier set pieces is not the end of the world.

• Assassination: Vers>Mastery>Haste>Crit
• Outlaw: Vers>Haste=/=Crit>Mastery
  You want to stack at least 20% Haste on Outlaw to lower the GCD during Adrenaline Rush.
• Subtlety: Vers>Haste to 600-700>Mastery>Crit
  Sub now uses a haste threshold to extend Dance and shorten Secret Technique's CD.
  Sub haste rating chart:
  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1483399511836725378/image.png?ex=69bc6d33&is=69bb1bb3&hm=21db8524f3add252a5f7556c91a39c6d076b5cbf29926a0ff3de6f1dad996660&

[gleaming sentinel]

It’s kinda like: I have one as a defensive and another for a last second stun which has been really helpful at times for me

[tame barn]

i dont understand this graph

[severe helm]

which part

the 3rd column is just telling you how much extra haste you need to give yourself a 0.4s buffer if you have slightly delayed globals

the 2nd column is the theoretical minimum required haste if you were frame perfect iwth globals

1st column is how many extra gcds you get

so if you want 3 extra globals you only technically need 1076 but to be safe(0.4s buffer) you would want 1173

[static holly]

You either hit like a truck or dance like there's no tomorrow?

[severe helm]

wat

[proper vortex]

Dance is not longer with haste. You just get more globals inside dance window

So you do both, hit like a truck and dance like theres no tomorrow

But i heard we a stunbot no so dunoo

[severe helm]

nope

other way around

haste doesnt reduce gcd as an energy spec

the exception is outlaw during adr

[static holly]

https://tenor.com/view/math-calculating-formulas-confused-little-girl-gif-19737617

[proper vortex]

Really? I tried testing and dance is same duration with 0 or 600 haste

[severe helm]

yes really

haste does not reduce gcd

for energy specs

[outer sky]

You need to take the talent

[severe helm]

the exception is outlaw in adr

[languid ravine]

[proper vortex]

Ah okay that makes sense. Ty for explaining

[static holly]

I had not one round in shuffle where I did top DMG. IDC, I just to my part and cc more than doing DMG. I don't think we can top it anyway

Enh shaman was pretty disgusting

[outer sky]

The people saying that are either just tilted, bad, stupid, or some combination of the 3.

[proper vortex]

I was joking, im just a blitz pleb

[static holly]

I think sub has a pretty good balance. Not sure why everyone says we do too much dmg

There are other specs with Better burst

[severe helm]

there are no specs with as much burst as sub while having as much control as sub

its not even close

[proper vortex]

You guys ever lost on purpose because of high mmr? I cant get a queue early in the day and now it still is 30min

[proven field]

in my endless quest to try something new, I tried Flames of Sin'Dorei the fire dot weapon enchant and I can confidently return with the news that

it is complete dogshit

[outer sky]

Yeah i do boosts and i went 20-3 with a friend of mine and had to purposefully lose to bring my MMR back down just to be able to boost again

[proven field]

I tried running both Halazzi and Flames of Sin'Dorei together (as with Lethal Dose it would also provide 4% buff to all other bleeds and poisons, but still no bueno

[outer sky]

Lethal dose doesnt stack with enchants

[proven field]

really? it says all dmg over time abilities

[outer sky]

Yeah I know

It should work

Theoretically

But it doesnt

[proven field]

cuz I was like "ok with focusing iris, halazzi and sin'dorei, I could pump 6% dmg to all my bleeds/poison, that's actually kinda awesome"

ah bummer

[outer sky]

Yeah no. Fun detected. Doesnt work

[tame barn]

ah i see ty

[static holly]

Should I just focus on doing just DMG as sub and just cc here and there if possible (within range or short range)?
I don't feel good by tunneling and not controlling. But on the other hand helping my healer/mate feels also wasted as they often just die that fast 😑

[proper vortex]

Queue pop 5 rogues in the game

[stoic spruce]

It's good tech tbh

[proven field]

what is this rets healing 6M+ in a BG; what in tarnations

[potent pivot]

Yea

[potent pivot]

For sub yea

[potent pivot]

Yes

[potent pivot]

?

[potent pivot]

Yeah but literally no one wants to be that. It’s boring as fuck. How is that hard to understand

[stoic spruce]

Outlaws want to be that

That's why we play outlaw

CC bot with alright damage

Alright damage is good damage when you don't have a counter

But that's in the past now, gotta stop thinking like a rogue

I don't think many people know outlaws purpose

Knew...

[proven field]

it was a 'control' spec

CC bot is a simplification that removes the skill it actually took to juggle

[stoic spruce]

Control spec is a simplification but sure

[potent pivot]

Gotta stop thinking like it’s ok to do bad dmg because of a “toolkit”

[stoic spruce]

It is

Tf??

Yeah bro

Lemme lock down an entire team while having insane kill pressure

Nothing wrong with that

Totally balanced

Rogue toolkit is a foot in the door for being S tier when your damage sucks

Because if your dmg sucks, you have multiple classes you can play with still

[potent pivot]

…

They’ve already warped your mind

[stoic spruce]

??

I've felt this way for YEARS

Before discord

And its true

[potent pivot]

They say that shit about zero other specs in the game

[stoic spruce]

Ret without damage is still really good

[potent pivot]

Ret?

[potent pivot]

I don’t mean here

[stoic spruce]

A good ret makes a team unkillable

And who knows what idea blizz has to add to ret

Probably a brez they can use in arena

Idk

[potent pivot]

I’m saying blizzard doesn’t say “we’re nerfing or buffing X class damage based on their utility”

They only say this about rogue

[stoic spruce]

I'm not saying that either

I'm saying before midnight, rogue didn't need big dam because comps like rmp existed that had a very few counters

[molten hedge]

Oh ok that’s a diff argument. I agree LOL.

[potent pivot]

yea thats just dogshit gameplay

[proper vortex]

Evoker can push enemies out of bound somehow? Just had a game in Eots and we had 2 players under map with disconnects. My mates said it was the evoker

[stoic spruce]

Well it's been that way for 20+ years and it's evidently not changing anytime soon

[quick temple]

agreed, ppl still act like wow is everquest or a 2001 mmo

its an action mmo

nobody is tuned to do bad damage or "scale with gear" like its tbc warrior

[potent pivot]

cap its already started

[stoic spruce]

Nah

[potent pivot]

look at assa/outlaw

[stoic spruce]

It's Sub rogues world, we're just living in it

[quick temple]

I miss when they leaned into outlaw being this brawler/acrobatic jack sparrow thing

[stoic spruce]

That's another thing

[quick temple]

i miss the extended melee range and lunge on run through

[stoic spruce]

Outlaws pvp talents used to be really team oriented

That was really fun

[quick temple]

yea it was like this band of thieves gimmick, like they wanted to play with a melee cleave support dps

haste on roll the bones, move speed on bte, drink up me hearties

[grizzled basin]

have you managed to hide pet/totems nameplate with standard UI ?

[potent pivot]

you kinda want to see certain totems

i don't think you can customize which ones you see anymore

[stoic spruce]

Old Control is King would be great rn

With all the CC going around. Infinite adr

[vale steppe]

@potent pivot finality or wm?

[grizzled basin]

I cant even anyhting rn even if i wanted to :/ pets are the worst espe with DK/BM

[potent pivot]

rotten+pv

[potent pivot]

you should be able to turn off minions in base settings

or use a nameplate addon like platynator and use it's settings

[vale steppe]

@potent pivot yeah but insted of replicating shadows we pick weapon master?

@potent pivot nvm I’m drunk

[potent pivot]

nah, keep taking replicating shadows

+5% clone damage still better than other options

[dark kernel]

Replicating effects all secret tech bonus because it's from the clones too

So it is something

[vale steppe]

idk i think sub feels really rough, from 2k to 1.7 XD

[spring bough]

I just need old maneuverability back and idk something to stop these infinite fears locks have

[stoic spruce]

Are those fears a problem? I didn't know

https://tenor.com/view/rogue-wo-w-undead-gnome-horde-gif-14842714

My work week starts today so this time next week I'll be pushing

Can't wait to see my outlaw pals on the leaderboards

[proven field]

8 second warrior fear feels like waiting for school bell to ring before summer

[last jasper]

@spring bough

[regal stream]

werent we supposed to get our quest that lets us get a free conquest weapon this week?

[last jasper]

when u reach 2.5k conq

[proven field]

2500 conquest they give to you

[regal stream]

and is it one weapon?

[proven field]

One set

[regal stream]

good, ty

100 conq and I'm in

[spring bough]

Huge problem

[potent pivot]

Not a quest. Achievement just procs 2 weapon tokens once you hit the conquest threshold

[regal stream]

And am I trippin'?
Why does it seem like Cheap Shot works 100% of the time, but Kidney shot is resisted like 80% of the time?

Like, I'

I'm not going cheapshot>cheapshot>Kidney shot on the same target, I'm spreading them around as needed, and pacing them for interrupts and stuff

[pale storm]

Can’t dodge cheap, can dodge kidney, so have to kidney from behind target

[regal stream]

But I feel like I NEVER land a kidney

That explains a lot

so shadowstep into kidney is a very viable macro

[pale storm]

If rogue evasions you can step kidney

[stoic spruce]

I feel like it explains most

[ocean thunder]

Frankly, Assa looks smooth enough for me - low ratings yet, i know, but still

I pop my bleeds and go to healer, stun,silence silcen

out of the game for 8seconds

[outer sky]

You know what the goal of an arena match is, right? I feel like a lot of people either dont or pretend that they dont. But the objective is to kill somebody on the other team. Its not to do more CC than them. Its also not to tank them for as long as possible. Its to kill them. All of the utility in the game is worthless if you dont do any damage because damage kills people and thats what youre in the arena actually trying to do.

[regal stream]

I genuinely think Assasination would be top tier viable if dispells like stone form werent a thing.

[outer sky]

"You were fully DRd on every school before you killed us" doesnt cause you to lose any less rating

[potent pivot]

It’s a monk meets rn so

[regal stream]

Rogues deserve to be top damage. The class isn't worth it if the sweat doesn't pay off.

[potent pivot]

That or you’re DRing your kidney too much

[gleaming sentinel]

https://tenor.com/view/ahoklollmao-of-course-ohhhh-oh-that-makes-sense-gif-11896286840118452668

[stoic spruce]

This is such a surface level take it's insane

[gleaming sentinel]

Just win bro

[regal stream]

Thats fair, and likely, but I've been assuming that from the start and it hasn't seemed to matter if I open with it or not. it's like a 60% success chance for me on average

[spring bough]

Here’s a good question. What addon updater do you all use. Curse, wago, or wowup

[stoic spruce]

Dood it doesn't matter if you disable their go and set up goes for your teammate

[gleaming sentinel]

I only have sarena right now on curse forge

[stoic spruce]

Didn't you hear??

[regal stream]

Curse out of laziness cuz I already am using it for other crap.

[gleaming sentinel]

May as well be speaking Spanish. I just be pressing buttons

[spring bough]

wago has REFlex tho and curse doesnt RIP

[stoic spruce]

We play outlaw, that's all we have

Sub only rogue keft

Left

[spring bough]

Cowboys should know Spanish tho

[gleaming sentinel]

Bro I stunned him, what else do you need me to do

-me all last expac

[stoic spruce]

Pass

[regal stream]

🌯 No mames, güey

[gleaming sentinel]

Cowboy pirates, what other trope can we fit in there

[stoic spruce]

Just play with a mage or lock

They always need someone to set up for them

[gleaming sentinel]

Cowboy pirate reaper from ow

[spring bough]

cabrón

[gleaming sentinel]

But my ult is never up becuase I don’t have it talented

[regal stream]

Next expansion Outlaw rogues get a Bobafett Jet Pack and can shoot blasters while strafing through the air.

[potent pivot]

Gotta watch out of stuff like fists of fury etc

[gleaming sentinel]

Huge if true

[outer sky]

If you dont do damage and kill somebody, then no it doesnt. Please show me an example of an arena match where the winning team was the one who disables more enemy goes and did the most set ups, but didnt kill anybody. And where the losing team was the one that killed the other team. Then ill eat my words

[gleaming sentinel]

The eu meta was not dying and winning eventually in deep damp for years no?

[spring bough]

Imagine the uproar if outlaw had a burst button that could push a kill every kidney

[stoic spruce]

Any damp meta

[spring bough]

Dreadblades…..?

[gleaming sentinel]

It got nerfed in 48 hours remember

[outer sky]

Did they win by making the other team so frustrated they just typed /afk?

[gleaming sentinel]

I’ll never forget you coins

[outer sky]

Or did they kill somebody

[stoic spruce]

Dude

What are you doing?

[dark kernel]

I do

[spring bough]

“Hey here is the Tuesday patch notes yall have a few days” and then pushes outlaw as a hotfix before the weekend 😭

[dark kernel]

Benefits of Texas

[stoic spruce]

You're sitting there acting like I'm saying you can just sit there, cc, and just win by default

Use your brain

What I'm saying is

[dark kernel]

https://tenor.com/view/james-bogue-dom-zook-rpg-wildcardsrpg-wildcards-gif-12485618

[stoic spruce]

@spring bough got something to say then say it

[last jasper]

btw do u want 4p on sub or nah?

[outer sky]

Yes

[spring bough]

Idk what we even talking bout tbh

[stoic spruce]

Lul

[last jasper]

helm, shoulder, legs and?

[spring bough]

Just got off work bout to Que some Devourer

[regal stream]

HERPES

[stoic spruce]

It's not worth the effort

[stoic spruce]

Real

[outer sky]

Gloves

[gleaming sentinel]

Might be my first alt lowkey

Don’t tell the other outlaws

[regal stream]

Enjoy your whole gimmick being side stepped

[stoic spruce]

Gross

[spring bough]

[spring bough]

Too bad I don’t play star so I can’t be stopped

[molten hedge]

Curse has arena analytics which is better than reflex imo

[outer sky]

Doesn't track shuffles though

[spring bough]

Arena analytics wasn’t updating last time I used it for shuffle / blitz

Pvplogs addon works but it shows shuffle as 3v3 and blitz as rated bg 😂

[outer sky]

It never tracked blitz

[vale steppe]

i just got hit for 185k mortalstrike in shuffle

hello??

[potent pivot]

Welcome to Midnight bby

Healer priest does more overall dps than sub rogue

And MW monks still run the season

[vale steppe]

haha thats crazy

but nerf sub rogue 🤓

[regal stream]

Nooo just nerf Assasin D:

we need one op build minimum

[stoic spruce]

I blame you tbh

[regal stream]

cant have two not op builds

[vale steppe]

i think assa is good idk

[regal stream]

On paper, in a vacuum

Sub is EZ buttons

[vale steppe]

might be tilt mode from me, but i think assa is better than sub

( in a uncontrolled enviroment aka shuffle )

[regal stream]

highest damage I've simmed on a dummy was actually on Ass

[potent pivot]

Yea naw

[vale steppe]

How are you doing in shuffle?

[potent pivot]

Does more overall dps sure

[final dew]

got my conq pants this week - whats next week? trying to hit 1400 soon

[harsh kiln]

What weapon enchant are you using as sub?

[final dew]

Acuity of Ren on MH, Arcane on offhand

and second offhand/backup with a chain

[harsh kiln]

is that bis?

[vale steppe]

what chain is working? i didnt find any

[potent pivot]

Only if you put it in a wep before the hotfix

[vale steppe]

oh damn

[potent pivot]

1agi/1mast yeah

[harsh kiln]

dr on two agi?

[potent pivot]

Doesn’t matter very much but you get higher uptime running 2 diff enchants rn

It’s just good value

[harsh kiln]

gotcha

[spring bough]

in a training grounds and my teams healers just afk lol

WW got capped by bots when 3 of my team sitting there LOL

[outer sky]

They buffed the AI so they play better than most blitz players under 2.6k mmr now

[spring bough]

i capped GM.... do you think any1 of my team came to peel for it ?

[jaunty osprey]

Arcanoweave and hunt tech

[outer sky]

Enchants or embellishments?

[jaunty osprey]

Embellishment

!fuu

[lethal roost]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[jaunty osprey]

Wait meant to look for sub guidr

guide*

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/subtlety/bis-gear

pve plays it

but pve isnt pvp

[potent pivot]

Hunt isn’t bis in pve last I checked

They only use it because weapon is their first craft

[jaunty osprey]

but it’s the same theory as the weapon enchants being different

[potent pivot]

2x arcano is bis

[jaunty osprey]

Hunt is bis

Arcano 2nd bis

[harsh kiln]

how much of a dps loss is deathstalker to trickster in 3s?

[potent pivot]

You’re really going to make me go on wowhead and show you where it says otherwise?

[jaunty osprey]

A lot

[harsh kiln]

or what is the main reason ppl aren't playing

deathstalker

[jaunty osprey]

Trickster is really good

Trickster**

[potent pivot]

Swapping the mark is aids now

[jaunty osprey]

You lose a lot of value

[harsh kiln]

more aids than having auto attacks break cc

[outer sky]

Shit how do i get this. So when I craft weapons eventually I craft one with that and then recraft one of my arcanoweave pieces to not have an embellishment?

[jaunty osprey]

If you dont have a mark

on a target

[severe helm]

hunt/void are bis for outlaw

in terms of damage value

[jaunty osprey]

When you eventually craft weps when conq uncapped

[severe helm]

but arcanoweave can be bis in the gear

cuz crafted wep

[final dew]

white i hpriest so hurtful

[severe helm]

is 4 ilvl lower

[final dew]

70k smites...

[outer sky]

BiS for Outlaw lmao

[severe helm]

so the "final bis" might not have void

[jaunty osprey]

Crafted wep isnt any ilvl lower

[severe helm]

but in pvp

[jaunty osprey]

if you craft pvp wep

[severe helm]

since crafted is same ilvl

void might be bis

[jaunty osprey]

ye

[severe helm]

yeah

if ilvl is the same, void sims for like 0.5% higher than arcano

and you run the mix

1 void 1 hunt

so total like 1-1.5% higher

[jaunty osprey]

Idk, just went on wowhead to fuu’s guide

And it says it

[severe helm]

fuu knows all

[jaunty osprey]

even when I gear compare sim for PVP

it follows the exact same logic as diff wep enchants

[severe helm]

also

[jaunty osprey]

it simply has higher uptime

[severe helm]

it gives vers

so

defense

in theory

[jaunty osprey]

Wtf is defense

[severe helm]

but arcano does help your allies

so

[jaunty osprey]

(Assa main)

why do I care about allies?

It’s called SOLO shuffle

[severe helm]

as a support player(outlaw) I ahve to consider it

[potent pivot]

He has it saying different in another spot so

Take that as you will

[spring bough]

moon launch in 10 minutes hopefully if any1 cares

[potent pivot]

Unless it changed in the last 2 days which I doubt

[potent pivot]

[harsh kiln]

So how does swapping mark work now?

[severe helm]

Button for it

[jaunty osprey]

Finish the mark

[harsh kiln]

it used to swap when you ss'd someone b4 ye+

[jaunty osprey]

or kill a target

[severe helm]

Wat

[jaunty osprey]

is how it works

[severe helm]

Oh for sub

[jaunty osprey]

Sub and assa

Finish the mark or kill a target

[outer sky]

You have to use Darkest Night on the new target

[jaunty osprey]

to reapply

[severe helm]

Hasn't it been like that always?

It's changing in 0.5

[harsh kiln]

yeah so just spam 5 cps into the target

[outer sky]

No

You used to be able to just garrote or shadowstrike the new target out of stealth

And put a new mark up

[severe helm]

Oh it's already garrote

Thought it was ambush

[outer sky]

Used to be. Got changed

[jaunty osprey]

I blame Fuu

[harsh kiln]

i'm playing rmp and i swear to god, the auto attack cleave from trickster is so ass

[jaunty osprey]

It doesnt break CC

[outer sky]

But also the button theyre giving us to swap the mark costs energy which is a load of barnacles

[jaunty osprey]

So

[harsh kiln]

it has to

idk what else is

[jaunty osprey]

sec tech

[harsh kiln]

nah

i'm not using that when they're close

[final dew]

anyone wanna duel?

[harsh kiln]

well yeah ok it does, but i'm not using it

[outer sky]

Secret technique breaks CC nothing else does

[final dew]

Tichondrius

[jaunty osprey]

frost mage abilities all cleave

fire mage too

Voidweaver too

so

dont let them gaslight you

[potent pivot]

Not till .5 bud..

[harsh kiln]

what's the dmg treshold?

[jaunty osprey]

Over 1%

under 100%

it breaks when it wants to

[potent pivot]

?

[jaunty osprey]

I’ve killed 30% to 0 in a gouge

before

[outer sky]

On the trickster tree

Or like

Sub rotation

[potent pivot]

Trickster cleave

[outer sky]

Nimble fury?

[jaunty osprey]

Does Nimble really break it, I felt like it hasn’t broken for me

[outer sky]

Yeah same

[vale steppe]

eu or us?

[potent pivot]

It definitely used to

[outer sky]

Only secret tech has ever broken CC for me

[jaunty osprey]

Zicore r u in game

Easy to test

[potent pivot]

Like 100% without a doubt it did in TWW

[jaunty osprey]

sap a mob

Drag another ontop

and just nimble only

[severe helm]

ive 100-0d someone in a priest fear

I think its the most tilting thing about wow atm

is that cc doesnt break

so everythings a stun

[vale steppe]

sec tech does break cc, blind eg

[potent pivot]

Not talking about sec tech

[vale steppe]

aha

[jaunty osprey]

It was probably @potent pivot

that guy sucks

[potent pivot]

I don’t get feared bruv

[jaunty osprey]

Garfield emote

[potent pivot]

Ain’t scareda NOTHIN

[outer sky]

Nah I just got off of work and stopped for one of these before I have to go home to the wife and my 2 year old lmao

Ill test it later

But I know in a lot of games

If someone is in CC near me

As long as i dont press sectec

Shit wont break

[harsh kiln]

Yeah i'll ask my mage

and i'll refer to you guys

you're my SOURCE

[jaunty osprey]

Tell him to stfu and press ray of frost

and tell your priest to void blast harder

[ocean thunder]

I'm tempted to swap to assa and i wonder if going for Nelf rogue alt to craft separate gear and have meld
Probably that's the play instead of swapping on this toon that i am also playing sub

but i find assa playstyle more to my liking

[jaunty osprey]

Nelf is important for assa

[gusty hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/stay-alive-dont-drink-and-drive-crash-gif-24786991

[outer sky]

Very

I was hoping it would be less important this season

[jaunty osprey]

Stats don’t matter as much tbh, some haste, some mastery, all mastery

[outer sky]

But it still feels just as mandatory as it did before

[jaunty osprey]

Not that important

but nelf matters more

[ocean thunder]

yeah the silence is OP

[jaunty osprey]

so you can use sub gear on assa

[outer sky]

Its not just that

Not having to deal with garrotes CD makes spreading bleeds way easier

Especially in a post indsicrimate carnage world

[ocean thunder]

does it matter so muhc ? does the pressure actually matter? healers aoe heal easily

[outer sky]

Yeah it matters

[jaunty osprey]

Nah

Don’t spread bleeds if it isnt via CT

[outer sky]

Oh I havent been running that lmao

I forgot about it tbh

What do you do into those zoo specs

[jaunty osprey]

😂

I keep pressing CT till it spreads and get scent of blood

at the same time

[shadow rune]

hello,big noobie here, but with the token for weapons we got , as sub rogue, we go double dagger; or dagger and a sword for the offhand ?

[outer sky]

What if playing the build without scent?

One of the ones you sent me didn't have it

[potent pivot]

Pins

[outer sky]

I think

[jaunty osprey]

vs Zoo I’d probably always play

Sudden demise + zoldyck

Not DTB

[outer sky]

I just wish they'd take the energy cost of CT down a hair

50 energy come on

[jaunty osprey]

Monk, Druid, Hpal being meta atm

makes Amp poison bad

and less playable

if that makes sense

[outer sky]

Yeah it just gets dispelled before you get stacks

[jaunty osprey]

Yeah, so you lose all value of it

[outer sky]

Yep

So no one shots?

[jaunty osprey]

The only time you get value is when you press KB into envenom

cause KB applies

6 stacks of amp

instantly

you can still 1 shot without amp

If you get em to 10%

They just die to sudden demise

[outer sky]

Are you making a joke

[jaunty osprey]

so you dont have to do as much damage with the 1 shot if you think about it

[outer sky]

"You can one shot somebody without amp if you can get them to 10% first"

[jaunty osprey]

No like

Let’s say DM -> KB -> env with amp did

75% of someone’s HP

With sudden demise

you can get away with that combo doing 65% of someone’s hp

[outer sky]

Ah I see. Has sudden demise been reliably proccing at 10% for you with DM?

[jaunty osprey]

since sudden procs at 10%

yes

[shadow rune]

no clue about weapons on pin's except enchant.. sorry to ask again

[outer sky]

Ill have to try that build later

[jaunty osprey]

The aura buffs helped a lot since bleeds do so much damage now

[potent pivot]

Read the top pin. It says what weapons to buy

[jaunty osprey]

And 2 Set

[potent pivot]

If you’re on mobile you may have to actually click the top pin

[outer sky]

With the DTB build, I feel like SD would just never proc until like 2%

[jaunty osprey]

Well you shouldnt play DTB without Zoldycks

and dashing

With the dm kb envenom combo

you’re pressing envenom when targets are sub 35% hp

Zoldycks will buff your envenom by a good amount

and the energy return from dashing is so good

[outer sky]

I dont play any build without those

[jaunty osprey]

You cant have zoldycks and DTB and grab sudden demise can you?

Lol

[outer sky]

No

Its dtb or demise

[jaunty osprey]

So this makes no sense

how would SD proc with DTB

[outer sky]

Because if you remember, youre the one who told me I needed dashing locked in. Before that convo id often play DTB and SD

[rich tulip]

Does anyone happen to have any advice for Arena?.. I'd like to get into ranked but it seems like every solo shuffle match is against 99% tanks and healers and there's virtually nothing I can do lol. Last match was like.. druid/pally/pally/priest/monk/me.. Felt like a complete waste of time to even try.