pvp

[outer sky]

Newer than the ones I posted earlier?

[rough rock]

its juts ptr stuff

[potent pivot]

[outer sky]

Ah ye I posted the rogue changes earlier

[rough rock]

lmao time to level my sub

[pliant mauve]

So Assa doesn’t get cloud cover?

[outer sky]

No it doesnt have access to that hero tree

[spring bough]

Blitz game… my teams MW healers did 50% of the healing of the other team then blame the dps for the loss….. love FOTM healers

[dark stump]

it's fine right ?

[formal needle]

so i bought 2 main pieces last week, what would be the best item to get for this weeks conquest?

[delicate quest]

what do i buy for conquest if i bought shoulders and head before? sadly i only have 1 tier, since i cant get to 1600 - stuck at 1400

[formal needle]

yeah wondering the same

[potent pivot]

Gloves to Catalyst later

[dark stump]

......

i hate this ww

against he top damage

with me he's lower than a disc

[hybrid sapphire]

good afternoon fellow rogues is bartender still fucked up

[potent pivot]

I think it’s fine

At least it seemed fine when I fucked with it on another char last night

[hybrid sapphire]

it showed cooldowns in combat?

[potent pivot]

https://www.wowhead.com/blue-tracker/news/us/hotfixes-march-25-2026-world-of-warcraft-blizzard-news-24266320

Actual hotfixes for today

Nothingburger tho

[potent pivot]

On a dummy it did

Idk about otherwise

[dark kernel]

I put in 2 job resumes and already got an interview after 3 days

I should post that on reddit.

[dark moon]

Now this shit is hilarious

Hahahha

[hybrid sapphire]

we're BACK mashallah

[dark stump]

?

[dark moon]

?

[potent pivot]

Gloves to cata later

[potent pivot]

Actionbar addons stopped working because blizz changed the api this reset

[fiery turret]

RIP the conquest daggers have crit

[potent pivot]

It’ll be fine

Once conq uncaps we’ll just craft daggers

People overestimate the value of bad stats on a couple items

[safe pelican]

Lil more marvel then I’m in Azeroth

[grave basin]

Im having fun on feral

[potent pivot]

Not on surv this season?

[grave basin]

Surv is so unfun im depressed even thinking about it

[potent pivot]

Damn rly

I’m prolly gonna at least get the set on mine later on

After dh/dk

[grave basin]

Yea i lost half my keybinds and in the situations where id be useful last expac im just sitting there watching my team die

Brb no knock trap tar root scatter ros

[potent pivot]

Maybe I’ll just do mm blitz then

Bismeh seems to be doing well

[grave basin]

I mean yea you can do well but its not fun

Bicmex is like 2k in shuffle now which is close to r1 range but hes even considering playing mm in the awc

[potent pivot]

Oof

[grave basin]

Which if you know bicmex lore would have been impossible

[potent pivot]

He shall be forced to play BM

[grave basin]

Yea maybe lol bm is just sv but better

Boomstick hits for 15-20k in pvp / tick btw

On 400k hp pool

It was really good in beta but got nerfed 3x in a row and they fixed a positive bug ontop of that

Thats how much dps gain you get going from 0 to 4pc pve ST

so its not even gonna scale well later

Its never been more joever

[potent pivot]

Yeah Bicmex says only 2p in pvp

Sometimes he does randomly kill ppl tho idk

Not as much as pre nerf tho

[pearl bane]

[grave basin]

rare dzd

[potent pivot]

[gleaming sentinel]

https://tenor.com/view/goofy-shy-a-goofy-movie-bashful-aw-shucks-gif-6128306

[twin burrow]

What do we buy this week gloves?

[frozen walrus]

Been a Survival main for 10 years. Switched to MM today. Not cuz it's busted, but because Surv is just so boring. Hate what they did to my guy!

[grave basin]

I couldnt bear to queue more than a few shuffle rounds

Im hoping for some mid expac/season adjustment of their toolkit

[frozen walrus]

Them adding Primal Surge killed the spec. You can't run a build without it or the Takedown talents. Zero nips variety and with all the nerfs, zero damage.

Build

[grave basin]

Yea doing a dead global every 3 globals feels so ass too

I hate the kc global global loop

Its too forced

[proven field]

Honestly went from most interesting to most boring in record time...

[ocean delta]

what resource do people use for BiS and stats? icy-veins shows stats as vers>mastery>crit>haste, while skillcapped has vers>haste>mastery>crit, so unsure of which resource to follow for priority crafting

[grave basin]

Sv participation fell off a cliff too

Last season it was like top 6 melee spec in a season where it wasnt even the best hunter spec

Now its back down to meme spec tier with outlaw and frost dk

Also the downfall of assa needs to be studied

[safe pelican]

wtf is this bar on my screen

[grave basin]

Resource display

[shrewd pollen]

do any of the 5 outlaw players know if you ever press ambush anymore?

havent played this spec since SL but ambush seems awful rn

[proven field]

anyone bothering with embellishments on rings?

[shrewd pollen]

embellishments are like such a small thing but devouring band and arcanoweave lining are both probably the best

i think arcanoweave is what the pvers use so its probably better damage

[rough rock]

Not at all

[shrewd pollen]

okay ty unbinding it

[proven field]

ran two BGBs, team got fucking annihilated - like, my team might have been functionally braindead

time to delete character

one dude "damn I forgot to put PVP gear on" next guy "i dont have mounts"

.....

[hollow carbon]

„I dont have mounts“ is hilarious, thanks for that laugh 😂

[molten hedge]

His chat blocker “no I don’t play BM 😠 lmaoo

[potent pivot]

Assuming you’re playing sub, yeah. Will catalyst them into tier later.

[potent pivot]

IceyVeins is pretty unreliable for rogue pvp now. Skillcapped is pretty meh, they get better as the season progresses and they see what everyone is doing, but are kinda bad at predicting the proper stuff.

Murlok.io is generally the best place to look, but not great until a month or so into the season because it’s just showing whatever the top 50 are using. Which can be a lot of random ass people early on.

If you need stats we’ve got:

!stats

[lethal roost]

These are the recommended stat priorities for each spec in PvP. Please keep in mind that having suboptimal stats on some pieces such as tier set pieces is not the end of the world.

• Assassination: Vers>Mastery>Haste>Crit
• Outlaw: Vers>Haste=/=Crit>Mastery
  You want to stack at least 20% Haste on Outlaw to lower the GCD during Adrenaline Rush.
• Subtlety: Vers>Haste to 600-700>Mastery>Crit
  Sub now uses a haste threshold to extend Dance and shorten Secret Technique's CD.
  Sub haste rating chart:
  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1483399511836725378/image.png?ex=69bc6d33&is=69bb1bb3&hm=21db8524f3add252a5f7556c91a39c6d076b5cbf29926a0ff3de6f1dad996660&

[potent pivot]

We’ve also got #1283780831147589713 for getting started with gearing

[grizzled basin]

What do you mean ?

[grave basin]

Do you need an explanation after seeing those numbers?

[grizzled basin]

Oh got it

[pearl bane]

@gleaming sentinel heard your the goat around these parts

[dark moon]

Its the meta, nothing to be studied there i believe

Dev dh feels far more engaging and fun for me than rogue atm is

Which is totally disgusting

[potent pivot]

____________>

how

[unkempt ether]

@pearl bane

[dark moon]

I don't know and I'm enjoying it more than rogue atm

And also hating myself a bit

[grave basin]

Hes following @spring bough

[dark moon]

Dance into tech and noodle outside

[grave basin]

The rogue to dev dh pipeline

[dark moon]

No, I'm just playing both

What's not to like about having uber mobility and ranged dmg

Also not a single soul said "nerf dev dh" when van cleef says he hits 100k+ insta consumes nonstop

[grave basin]

Dev isnt that hot in shuff where you get perma trained down i think

[dark moon]

I want to try van cleefs build if he can drop it here

Cause im using collapsing star

I'll have time for pvp once we stop raiding 4 times a week

[pearl bane]

@unkempt ether whats good

[gusty hedge]

Can never go wrong with multi rogues Another outlaw is what you need

cheap shot change when

[dark moon]

I remember his struggle. I think it was the only spec he didn't get elite on

[rough rock]

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofpvp/s/zp4nriNUp3

Don’t get me wrong I still love the spec it’s just annoying having to ramp up damage while trying to do anything meaningful in blitz. Been lots of games I was wishing I was sub just to actually do something. Maybe just need to stick to shuffle lmao

[gleaming sentinel]

In my experience people don’t expect an outlaw to stand and bang

[spring bough]

Damage idk

It’s fun ripping void ray into an eradicate into an insta cast consume and watching health go poof

And playing keep away kinda or you die 😂

[spring bough]

Try this. No star. Flip the star PvP talent to the void meta one

[sly swan]

We still running the haste/mastery build for sub PvP?

[gusty hedge]

!stats

[lethal roost]

These are the recommended stat priorities for each spec in PvP. Please keep in mind that having suboptimal stats on some pieces such as tier set pieces is not the end of the world.

• Assassination: Vers>Mastery>Haste>Crit
• Outlaw: Vers>Haste=/=Crit>Mastery
  You want to stack at least 20% Haste on Outlaw to lower the GCD during Adrenaline Rush.
• Subtlety: Vers>Haste to 600-700>Mastery>Crit
  Sub now uses a haste threshold to extend Dance and shorten Secret Technique's CD.
  Sub haste rating chart:
  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1483399511836725378/image.png?ex=69bc6d33&is=69bb1bb3&hm=21db8524f3add252a5f7556c91a39c6d076b5cbf29926a0ff3de6f1dad996660&

[sly swan]

So if I got tier hands in my pve vault I should definitely make it pvp ilvl next week right so I can just get 4 set

[gusty hedge]

yes !

[sly swan]

Roger that

[dark moon]

Thank you, king

[gusty hedge]

just keep playing and testing things out tbh. law feels diff compared to previous xpansions, i dont like how the rtb is currently,that 1 roll is just tf
Be quick react to enemy's movements/attacks asap and play as underhanded as you can gouge is clutch use that whenever u can/where u can stop the enemies burst etc without wasting your kidney/ kidney gouge/blind reset sap go for kill (if 1v1).
i wouldnt be taking these tier lists too seriously but would be watching or taking notes from other outlaw players/vids you come across.
I pay no mind to these tier list , any class in the right hands can sit anyone down, unless the spec is currently just in shambles, saying all that to say outlaw still takes more effort for the same amount or less damage these current(meta) classes are at rn. Very much lacking in the cc department as rogue which makes it feel like trash at times.

[dark kernel]

Half the tier lists are fucking ridiculously bullshit. Even Rank 1 players right now have awful takes because of feelings

If damage was out of control every game at 2100+ mmr wouldn't be 7 minute damp fests

Healers have the most egregious issues. I legitimately feel bad for Rdruids and Rshamans

[stoic spruce]

Frankly I wish they had it worse

Moreso rdruids

[gleaming sentinel]

All the homies hate Druids

Only things I’ve run into that feel ridiculous is ret / mw and ww

[quaint cedar]

Any strong on opinions on embellishments for outlaw? I'm thinking either the focusing iris or the arcana mana wyrm (arcanoweave) one.

[spring bough]

Prob arcanoweave for some main stat 🤷‍♂️

[proven field]

I’m running iris and it’s like 0.7% of my damage - think largely everything will give you about 1% lift so pick what’s fun/cheap

[ocean thunder]

i can tell you arachnoweave or how its called was not cheap!

[quaint cedar]

yeah seems like embellishments don't do much this time

which is fine by me honestly never really cared much for them

just another annoying thing to do to get geared up

[dark kernel]

I have forgotten to spend my heraldries.

[ocean thunder]

do we actually use 2 x wpn enchants or weapon chain?

[spring bough]

Weapon chain got hotfixed 🪦

[harsh kiln]

Had a 10minute 3s game yesterday at 2k mmr. And i agree that in general the damage is 100% not out of controll atm.

[stoic spruce]

yknow

if it werent for the addon culling

and arguably class culling

this expac would be pretty damn good

I think the culling went the wrong direction though

normally utility gets culled too but :)

[outer sky]

"If it weren't for the core gameplay design this xpac would be pretty good"

[stoic spruce]

yeah

you can phrase it like that sure but youre missing a lot of nuance

holy shit I hate sub

why cant blizz make a new class and move outlaw to that so I dont have to associate with subs

[dark kernel]

Join us.

We have CR

See lots of green numbers

[stoic spruce]

theres literally not a single word strong enough to describe the hate I have for Sub

and the players

R1 victims for sure

[dark kernel]

I mean technically if you look at it

We were all sub players before ever being outlaw

[stoic spruce]

wdym

[dark kernel]

None of y'all pvpd as combat before outlaw existed

And if you say you did you either started in WoD or are lying lol

[stoic spruce]

youre funny

[graceful ravine]

what do i do with this?

[hollow carbon]

Craft pve Gear

[stoic spruce]

ye

[graceful ravine]

nothing for pvp right

[hollow carbon]

You could potentially farm Mythic crests and craft a max gs pve item early in the season if you want to sweat

[stoic spruce]

got me looking up words

okay well that edit makes me look stupid and I cant delete messages because it goes against my outlaw code

[outer sky]

Right

[stoic spruce]

cata btw

[gusty hedge]

ive pvp combat since tbc /wrath of Lich king

[stoic spruce]

nerd

dang servo got me

[dark kernel]

I'm sorry for your loss

Combat in those xpacs was doodoo butter

It was fun

It just wasn't very competitive

[gusty hedge]

it was! fun tho not many combat rogues either

[stoic spruce]

I actually hated sub back then too

combat was good in cata until sub got daggers

[gusty hedge]

got my daggers and my glaives

[stoic spruce]

you pig

[dark kernel]

Sub was technically meta late Wotlk onward

[stoic spruce]

I bet you played rmp then too

[dark kernel]

If you guys played launch wotlk

Assa was INSANE

Hold on I have the most ridiculous video

[gusty hedge]

i've always been a Wpvp 2v2 Bg hero!

when 2s dieed i died

[dark kernel]

https://youtu.be/3gQC-2_65co?si=v9POl7d_lLOZZkJQ

This is Wotlk season 5 (1) pre nerf everything

[brisk hinge]

is there a weapon achiev\quest?

[dark kernel]

Yes next week

[stoic spruce]

yeah 2500 conq

[stoic spruce]

says RM 2s to me

I never got them

and you know what?

looking back idrc

because daggers are for CHUMPS

https://tenor.com/view/long-john-silver-long-john-peter-pirate-laugh-pistol-pete-gif-8301819100936657449

AM I RIGHT FELLAS

[molten hedge]

Just mog tfury

[stoic spruce]

Ever since Legion its been dreadblades or nothing

mostly seascourge but the others are good too

[gusty hedge]

Id rock these warglaives if blizz ever decides to let us mog these mf!

[gusty hedge]

Goes too Hard

[stoic spruce]

also

I had to check to make sure you were Outlaw before I gave that screenshot time of day

[gusty hedge]

😂

[stoic spruce]

cant get them anymore can you?

[gusty hedge]

Im still sure u can! forgot where the quest starts!

[gusty hedge]

i got like 20+ outlaw rogues and 1 sub rogue

[stoic spruce]

as long as the sub is for a bit

[gusty hedge]

this xpac made me make a rogue strictly for sub, i hate it

[stoic spruce]

wow

am I the only real outlaw truther?

[gusty hedge]

dont get me wrong! im still playing 3 outlaw rogues rn, i touch sub for bgs when im burnt

[stoic spruce]

yeah that healthbar deletion in a kidney smokebomb is delicious I bet

[gusty hedge]

i play sub how i play outlaw lol just pump cheap dance pump cheap pump gouge pump dance dead lol

only thing i know with sub is use secret tech when u use dance everything else is just pump 😂

[stoic spruce]

people are saying its easier than fury now

imma have to investigate eventually

if this is true, this just gave me so much more ammunition

[gusty hedge]

it is ! its literally like 3 -4 buttons lol every 20 secs someone is dying or close to lol

so dumb i hate it lol

[stoic spruce]

thats awesome

[gusty hedge]

i tested sub last season because one rogeu whos always sub went outlaw like me im always outlaw and tried sub, i couldnt get the hang of it at all the set ups were like tf am i doing?!?. compared that to this season, anyone can do it

end of season*

Really Need Cheap shot back for Law and sin, would def make a big difference

[proven field]

Yeah zicore is right about that / not being able to lock down on open is brutal against any melee

And really casters too as they are just going to rapid spam the shit out of their PB CC and we can’t really get through everything to KS before silence runs out

[severe helm]

idk how they even solve this without giving outlaw short vanish somehow

[stoic spruce]

I doubt their code would allow them a simple idea anyway

[severe helm]

yeah prob not

I dont think outlaw will get any mechanical improvements this season at least

maybe not this xpac

its like one of the lowest played specs across pve and pvp

they just dont care

[gleaming sentinel]

It just got a pretty substantial rework and some visual updates though lol

[severe helm]

im not sure the tww->midnight changes were very well thought through

[gleaming sentinel]

Agreed

[stoic spruce]

emphasis on some lol

[gleaming sentinel]

https://tenor.com/view/druski-shrug-idk-iono-hands-up-gif-7122581203490458147

[stoic spruce]

have any of you played the original WC3?

[gleaming sentinel]

Here’s your tumble weed or whatever you fucking weirdos

[stoic spruce]

real

[gleaming sentinel]

Pirates love tumbleweeds

Someone make a pic of the lime guy but with tumble weeds

[stoic spruce]

I set my wallpaper to the WC3 Reign of Chaos main menu screen with Wallpaper Engine from steam and I alt tabbed and I heard a bunch of explosions and a meteor falling and I thought my front yard was under attack

[stoic spruce]

Legion 2.0 will make us Gunslingers dw

[gleaming sentinel]

Another mid range dps

[stoic spruce]

because aparently WoW is full of disney adults who think gunslingers is cool

oh god no

I'd legit just drop outlaw lol

[gleaming sentinel]

https://tenor.com/view/elmo-falls-oh-brother-gif-12712639

[stoic spruce]

midrange gunslinger is so vomit inducing to even think about

[gleaming sentinel]

Slice slice shoot shoot that’s what I wanna do

[hybrid vessel]

sub wants 4p in pvp?

[rustic raptor]

is the current sub gearing guide up to date? We still want boots/belt crafted with haste?

[proven field]

Why gunslinger why not fencer/musketeer? bunch of swordplay-based moves with guards and retorts would be awesome.. even samurai where you could either go 2H or DW, running around chucking kunei and using a bow like ghosts of Tsushima

[stoic spruce]

you had me until samurai

[proven field]

You just don’t want themes?

I mean you could call it swordmaster or something sanitized

[stoic spruce]

I want one strong theme

thats detached from what you could think of assa or sub

[proven field]

But it would have to be unique enough to not be a surv clone, fury clone or even BM clone (as well as overlap too much with assa sub)

Like you could probably cut current surv out entirely and give half to BM and half to outlaw

Both those specs would be super fun

Outlaw gets bombs fire trap, BM get flanking strike and coordinated assault

Outlaw gets updated raptor strike or way of the mongoose (some sword skill ability) and we gold

[stoic spruce]

hot take but I totally get survs theme

people are too latched onto congo spear hunter

and not crazy nutcase isolated hillbilly bob

[gleaming sentinel]

Blizz don’t listen to pulse thanks

[stoic spruce]

lmaoo

[gleaming sentinel]

Respectfully

[stoic spruce]

I second that

we had pirate in the past and it worked

[pastel burrow]

no but legit people getting mad over boomstick that it doesnt fit the theme was weird

survival is literally hillbilly rp

https://tenor.com/view/the-powerpuff-girls-fuzzy-lumpkins-annoyed-gif-14182899

[stoic spruce]

they dont want clarity they want to be mad

surv is much cooler as hillbilly imo

just wish it played as cool

[pastel burrow]

the doomsday apocalypse prep spec

[rough rock]

Idk I’ll always see survival as a jungle warrior with a pet

[stoic spruce]

progress hates bro

[gleaming sentinel]

I’m just mad they have the better killing spree

[rough rock]

I wish outlaw was more like a swashbuckler from dnd

[gleaming sentinel]

Oh you actually kill with your spree?

[rough rock]

Lmaooo

I do have some fun with it in blitz though. As long as I catch a class without pets off guard it can do some decent damage

[proven field]

Come at me, my idea is amazing - current surv is too bland and boring to exist - if we can’t be some sort of Aragorn/Witcher type person then make other specs stronger

How much overlap is there from BM > surv, surv > outlaw, outlaw > fury

Or take surv back to its diablo 2 Amazon roots

[stoic spruce]

I dont think surv and outlaw both having guns as a melee spec is a massive overlap

its just a thing they have

[harsh kiln]

both have a hook aswell!

[stoic spruce]

one is a harpoon

you absolute

GOOBER

[harsh kiln]

hook, harpoon. patota patoo

i think i had a stroke

[stoic spruce]

Mods, send a stinky bag doggy doodoo to this mans house.

[gusty hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/outlaws-elysium-d4dj-packwatch-rip-gif-24593303

[harsh kiln]

please dont

[stoic spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/long-john-silver-long-john-peter-pirate-laugh-pistol-pete-gif-8301819100936657449

[rough rock]

I mean at this point would we prefer more damage or baseline defense?

Trying to think in blizzard brain

[gleaming sentinel]

I’d like to never die but also be able to kill and stun everyone, why is this too much to ask

[stoic spruce]

damage for sure

[rough rock]

Woah buddy only sub can do that without people complaining

[stoic spruce]

people ARE complaining

[rough rock]

“Outlaw can’t have damage and cc it would be broken”

Sub:

[stoic spruce]

and outlaw has been looking fools down since legion

while also killing

this is a new one for us

[rough rock]

I mean there would be no way for them to give us cheap shot

Oh shit imagine a cheap shot charge after BTE

That would be dope as fuck

[stoic spruce]

I think cheapshot is too shortsighted, what we need is a second charge of kidney

[calm vortex]

whats the best way to use shadow blade, like on the opener with shadow dance b4 ST?

[harsh kiln]

mistweavers have an additional get out of cc card?

outside of medallion*

[outer sky]

No but they can use restoral and port while stunned

If you ever kill a mistweaver it means they're bad

They dont even die in a lockout because they can fort brew while locked

[harsh kiln]

there has to be some ability they use, because multiple times they've just come out of stun early for some reason and i can't wrap my head around why

[outer sky]

Maybe theyre orc? Idk

[harsh kiln]

Nah i've gone trough it, the dr are reset, it's not because they're orc, it's not them using port or trinket. it just ends early. and only with MW

dunno, i'll have to get more data i suppose

[finite onyx]

Did they have a ret in the team

[harsh kiln]

No it wasn't sanc either

i've gone through it all

it's the monk

alone

[finite onyx]

I sometimes have sarena not showing stun dr, but would be weird if its only monk

[potent pivot]

You can use the low rank embellishment on pvp gear, it shoulda been pretty cheap

[potent pivot]

Ya

[delicate quest]

Guys, am i bad or just bad? Playing since vanilla, PVE. But PvP appears to me as a non-understanding effect and interface hell. Is it only rogues or any class? You need to have like 4 keys for each skill, cheap shot, kidney, shadowstep, kick .. so you can jump-kick-kidney-roundhousekick-kamehameha enemy healer for 3 seconds to quickly start your turbo with shadowdance, sectec and some evisc. if your focus/target didnt die, you are dancing at a fire until cds are back cause otherwise you are just tickling enemies with ur 5k burst finishers.

Interface with miniCC, sarena and stuff are just overloaded info i quite do not comprehend, so I mostly ignore it. I only see HP / cc trinket , other stuff is random fireworks for me.

Maybe uninstall? Or just change of class?

Oh what i forgot... when I start to use Shadowdance i get chain cc'ed in 70% of cases - so im mostly tickling enemies instead of being a danger.

[potent pivot]

You don’t really need more than 1 of every skill besides maybe a couple focus modifiers.

You have to learn what the CDs/CC of every class in the game are/do to fully understand miniCC/etc “bigdebuff icons”

[delicate quest]

Well, since i never play anything else beside pala, mage and rogue i quite do not know anything beside these. To learn this, I dont have the time anymore. So I guess i stay away.

[potent pivot]

just watch videos

[delicate quest]

even then i see fireworks 😄

[potent pivot]

and hover the icons/read the tooltips

[delicate quest]

if i watch pika its like this.... sap, shadowstep target, damage, shadowstep back to heal for chain cc, run to target, kill.

easy.

if i do it

well. better not

[dark kernel]

You just have to play a lot

When I come back to wow after a break the game is like a different language

After playing for a month it slows down. Now that I play a few years consecutively I see everything

It's like reading the matrix you have to tune out 90% of the in game noise and train yourself to only look for what you need

[delicate quest]

ye but i mean, 2v2 i can manage - even in random. its less chaotic. but this 3v3 shuffle .... vanish doesnt work anyways since you have like 10 dots on you. if they focus you, you are pretty much dead when my def cd's are down.

[potent pivot]

are you pvp geared?

vanish is mostly just used as a defensive for the shield/DR/heal in arena, not really for full stealth resets as much these days

gotta make sure you're using your Feint and using cloak/evasion properly, not wasting em

sub is quite tanky rn

[delicate quest]

yes i am geared. 2 crafted , 3 conquest, rest honor/warmode

i mean, ye. i use feint, evasion and the take-weapon-away-whatever its called skill

blind. but mostly blind usage XD

[outer sky]

Guys there's 3 Mistweavers in RFW so its basically over for them

Liquid isn't even running a single rogue lmfao

[potent pivot]

Ye they’ve been running 5 mm hunters

[molten hedge]

You don’t have to know every spell and ability to get started. Just the big cds!

[outer sky]

They'll be massacred as well

[spring bough]

MM is just aimed shot and idek what else they do anymore lol

[potent pivot]

You also have to realize they’ve been doing mythic splits

So I don’t think their comps even matter too much

I imagine if they have time they’ll be re running the mythic bosses again with a wildly different comp, just farming gear I think

Since none of these bosses actually matter

[outer sky]

I wonder if we'll survive tomorrow's tuning notes

[potent pivot]

Only the last raid that opens next reset matters

[dark kernel]

So I had a person explain it to me and I have screenshot. Apparently, MM sentinel has been bugged since TWW and it STILL is. It's not even something that's occasional, it happens all the time where the sentinel mark sometimes DOUBLES damage more than it's supposed

It's not a small thing either , it's an egregious DPS increase

My friend plays MM. He's a casual. He's ilvl 251 rn and he's doing fucking like 80K DPS

[stoic spruce]

damn thats like, worst case scenario for them lmaoo

[spring bough]

And now aimed shots always crits with apex

[dark kernel]

Yeah that was the most insane thing. But I guess we sort of have the same thing but it's just 2 globals

[outer sky]

yeah they're done

[spring bough]

I hope MW gets nuked from existence

I stg they throw a bubble every 25 seconds

[potent pivot]

Idk if anything’s gonna happen at this point, as everyone gears more I think we start to fall off

[outer sky]

But wont we also be getting more gear?

[outer sky]

They do

These talents need PvP modifiers

[potent pivot]

Yeah but the small increases to damage compared to health pools is usually meh

Like on beta with full gear the meta looked way more damp/slow

[dark kernel]

It's still that way. I'm not up there yet but a lot of my guildies are playing already at 2200 mmr in 3s and games are like 5 minutes minimum 7 minutes regularly

[molten hedge]

I would consider 5 min games to be pretty normal. Even last ssn with the crazy burst, a lot of games lasted a while bc rsham was cracked

[outer sky]

Yeah idk where everyone is getting this idea that the meta is one shotty. Every game i play is miserably long

[potent pivot]

On beta they were hitting like 10 or some shit

[outer sky]

It took these guys 11 minutes to win this 3v2

[rough rock]

has anyone tried deathstalker with sub? Or i guess if its "fixed" would it be better than trickster?

[dark kernel]

I had a twos game yesterday we're a hunter disconnected, and he didn't come back and the priest kept him alive for three and a half minutes straight 2V1

I mean healers really did want player power and they got it

[potent pivot]

Nah even if fixed it wouldn’t be really

They made the only way to move your mark darkest night, you can’t move it from striking a new target so it’s just aids af

And even in 12.0.5 idk if it’ll be worth using either the new marked for death lmao

The new marked for death is them quadrupling down on the mark being a debuff btw

[rough rock]

damn that sucks, i do like the little perks it has

[potent pivot]

Everyone hates it being a debuff, even pve players

So it’s funny

[outer sky]

Ok they hotfixed the weapon chain but if you have it already applied to a weapon then it still works

so I guess I'll be using this seasons honor wep for the entire xpac

[dark kernel]

What's the fix?

I forgot to even get one

[potent pivot]

You didn’t know this?

[potent pivot]

Prolly just can’t apply it to current ilvl gear

[outer sky]

made it have an ilvl cap of 80

[dark kernel]

Oh that's weird, I thought there was a new weapon chain for this expansion specifically

[outer sky]

No lol

They used to always make these chains available when disarms were prevelant. But they took away disarms for a while and therefore took away chains. But then when they put disarms back in the game they didn't put the chains back like they were supposed to

[severe helm]

Did they add more disarms recently?

[potent pivot]

Not recently idts

[outer sky]

No not recently

[dark kernel]

Either way that's hilarious

[outer sky]

In the WoD prepatch blizzard removed all disarms

and so no more chains

[dark kernel]

I straight up haven't even enchanted or jammed any of my gear, straight up cueing up blasting games vibing

[outer sky]

then in the legion prepatch they put disarms back

but never gave us chains again

[dark kernel]

I'm still playing highmountain using bull rush then Shadow stepping back to primary target second stun cheap shot don't even give a shit

[severe helm]

I haven't felt like disarms are very high the past 3 xpacs

Only one that feels over the top is monk

[gilded gulch]

🤔

[severe helm]

Cuz it's a ranged physical disarm

[gilded gulch]

yeah q into double monk wwdk was

[severe helm]

Should be melee range for sure

[gilded gulch]

XD moment

[severe helm]

If they fixed that I wouldn't care honestly

[outer sky]

surv hunter also has an undispelable ranged disarm

[dark kernel]

Monks generally have a bad time, and they're one of the few classes that gets it worse than us so I typically give them a pass

[severe helm]

It's shorter though

[outer sky]

ye by 1s

[severe helm]

And they're a DPS

Healer doesn't need ranged disarm

[outer sky]

Boy do I have news for you

[severe helm]

Hunter has a healer spec?

[outer sky]

Mistweaver had their disarm pruned

[severe helm]

Oh good!

Disarms prob feel fine then

Queues are too long rn I can't play dps

[outer sky]

But theres no fewer disarms in the game than there were before they pruned them in the WoD prepatch

and back then we always had chains

they just didnt include chains again for w/e reason

when they added the disarms back

[severe helm]

Chains are boring I'd rather them fix disarms

Than just make a mandatory enchant

[outer sky]

I'll take what I can get

[severe helm]

Bad solution

Imo

[outer sky]

shit needs a longer CD

[potent pivot]

Real

[outer sky]

it can just be scripted

pillar of frost

doomwinds

just script disarm

boring

[severe helm]

I mean you can just say that about anything in pvp

It scripts defensive cc in general

The only difference is that disarm doesn't have as much offensive utility

So it encourages people to save it

[outer sky]

yeah you dont need it for your go

[severe helm]

But someone can always choose to have defensive cc ready if they want

[outer sky]

yeah sure so do that and make the disarm CD longer

so theyll have to choose one that they may want for their go

like if i have to send kidney defensively thats fine

cuz I need that shit

i dont need dismantle

[severe helm]

I think disarms existence is a good way to reward cross cc

[outer sky]

I wouldnt want them gone

Just on a CD that cant be scripted as easily

[severe helm]

Pvp without requiring good cross cc is just encouraging comps like turbo and ret war

Tbh

[outer sky]

so you wont have it EVERY go

[severe helm]

Hot take maybe

Ban all cleaves

[outer sky]

Never gunna happen

[severe helm]

Every team should be melee +ranged + healer

The game would feel infinitely better

[outer sky]

Ban tanks for sure though

[pastel burrow]

i actually like the idea of this, even if its just a temporary brawl they try out or something

i know i wouldnt miss dealing with cleave or duo range

[potent pivot]

I saw envyion play an all caster shuffle last night

That shit looked painful lmao

[dark kernel]

Holy shit

2k gold a shuffle?

[potent pivot]

Past items?

Why tf would pvp drop augment runes

[pastel burrow]

you can sell them

[potent pivot]

…

That doesn’t change the question

Ik you can sell them

[pastel burrow]

ive got nothing funny to add

i blurted that out as if it was the best hit of 2026

[dark kernel]

Me no no man.

I just share

[potent pivot]

Guess it’s time to boot up some healers boys

The augment runes will lose value fast

But 500g is nice

[potent pivot]

@outer sky I don’t think liquid is even running mws because they’re op btw

[dark kernel]

Play turret disc and turn brain ofd

[potent pivot]

The quadruple hunter is wild tho ngl

Only 3 of them can even apply their hunters mark on this fight right

Doesn’t that still hamper the damage of the 4th?

[dark kernel]

Dude I'm surprised we haven't seen more hunters. They are absolutely busted damage wise

Like I know class stacking is pretty crap. But like lmao

[potent pivot]

Either they were limited by amount of players with geared hunters or warlock is also just as good

But tbh I think that fight was just good for hunters

Mostly stacked 3t cleave seemed rly good for them

They’ve dropped to 2 hunters for this next fight so far

[outer sky]

This comp might be good...

[rough rock]

stinkie dropped his aff guide, idk if you watch him at but his lock stuff is top tier

[potent pivot]

Naw I rarely watch any caster players tbh

Never really play them

Lock set this season just kinda mandatory

[dark kernel]

My only hunter friend refuses to play anything but BM

Fuxk

[dark moon]

its the best looking set this season i think

[potent pivot]

Yep

[crisp imp]

!stats

[lethal roost]

These are the recommended stat priorities for each spec in PvP. Please keep in mind that having suboptimal stats on some pieces such as tier set pieces is not the end of the world.

• Assassination: Vers>Mastery>Haste>Crit
• Outlaw: Vers>Haste=/=Crit>Mastery
  You want to stack at least 20% Haste on Outlaw to lower the GCD during Adrenaline Rush.
• Subtlety: Vers>Haste to 600-700>Mastery>Crit
  Sub now uses a haste threshold to extend Dance and shorten Secret Technique's CD.
  Sub haste rating chart:
  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1483399511836725378/image.png?ex=69bc6d33&is=69bb1bb3&hm=21db8524f3add252a5f7556c91a39c6d076b5cbf29926a0ff3de6f1dad996660&

[hybrid sapphire]

is DRTracker not on portraits?

it didnt even work in this arena iw as just in lol

[shrewd pollen]

lobbying for hunter nerfs

[potent pivot]

Buy conq gloves to cata later ig

[potent pivot]

Haven’t tried it yet so not sure but it said it was able to go onto multiple things

[hybrid sapphire]

it was just a blank box when i did arena rn. didn't even do anything

what was the other one you sent?

[potent pivot]

For target/focus frames right?

They’re all in the addon pin

[hybrid sapphire]

ty sis

[potent pivot]

I think MidnightDiminish was the frame one

[hybrid sapphire]

lol here we go

[potent pivot]

Was it a BG or

[hybrid sapphire]

3s

[potent pivot]

Gotta let em know assa cranks

[hybrid sapphire]

fotm enjoyers vs

assa cringers

[potent pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/ashley-re4-crank-hog-resident-evil-4-gif-10619676181707888931

[stoic spruce]

I just got done

[proven field]

https://klipy.com/gifs/ew-gross-48

[hybrid sapphire]

in theory wouldnt it be better to craft all the conq gear so that you can recraft it w diff stats?

[potent pivot]

huh

you don't have enough conq to craft everything rn, or do you mean in general?

you lose out on way too much vers crafting everything

[hybrid sapphire]

in general

do crafte pieces have less vers?

[potent pivot]

yeah just too much of a vers loss

yes

you can get good stats on all conq pieces you need them on

most slots have a haste or mastery piece

the only crafted stuff ill use this ssn is daggers way later, boots/belt for embellshments, and likely rings/neck just for the hell of it

i didn't want to bother buying chants/gems twice so i crafted honor level jewelry

to just recraft later

[hybrid sapphire]

ty bb

[graceful ravine]

where is the vendor to buy sockets?

[potent pivot]

same little area as the pvp vendors

[graceful ravine]

thanks

[pearl bane]

has anyone tried the void embelish? Does it stack up fast / alot?

[potent pivot]

darkmoon void?

i don't think it stacks up very much, its lower uptime than arcanoweave

i think law's best options were just arcano+focusing iris

[graceful ravine]

what 3rd pvp talent u guys run for BMs?

[potent pivot]

can just run tricks pvp talent to buff a team mate or whatever else

silhouette, w/e

[grave basin]

@potent pivot

[potent pivot]

lmfao no way i called it

[grave basin]

Imagine how bad sv has to be for bic to put his ego on bm

[dark moon]

Wasn't sv good

[grave basin]

It got omega nerfed

[potent pivot]

sv is still decent

[dark moon]

Sorry to hear that, but they should go back to huln hightmountain sv niche

[potent pivot]

just not what it was before

[dark moon]

That gun slinger shit is boring

[potent pivot]

but for mex to play bm is weird

[dark moon]

Mok nathal and shit

[potent pivot]

swear i've seen sv worse than it is rn and he still played it

[dark moon]

Well bicmex tried playing mm in df, and was so bad, but him playing bm now is not weird. As awc champ he has to play the most op spec if they want to stand a chance

[potent pivot]

isn't mm better than bm rn

[dark moon]

No idea, but he has to test every spec I'd imagine

He's competing seriously now

[potent pivot]

tru ig

[dark moon]

Not sure if his chat blocker still says to shoot him if we see him play bm

But he should take it down, ha!

[outer sky]

I played thug with a surv hunter earlier. We won 12 games in a row then called it. Seemed like he was doing really good damage. Was playing Sentinel. I still dont think it needed that 8% nerf but it at least seemed to still be pumping

[delicate quest]

how do i recraft my items? i believe i prefer mastery over haste. but since i m a poor man.... :c

[pearl bane]

tyvm

yeah arcano seems the best ty

[potent pivot]

you have to find someone in trade chat to send a personal order to. but haste goodge

[delicate quest]

just watching at murloc and top rogues are using mastery instead of haste? at least 50/50

some haste, but a lot mastery as well.

[potent pivot]

i don't think its 50/50, but haven't checked everyone's individual pages

you only have 14% haste outside of pvp, so the average haste % on murloc looks lower than it actually is

[delicate quest]

but they have like 55+ mastery and u only reach that by going for mastery.

im @ 44

and my haste is 9 (in world)

[potent pivot]

thats too low lol

[delicate quest]

well, my weapons have crit - there are none i can buy though with mastery or haste.

1 ring crit

[potent pivot]

Why on earth do you have a crit ring

[delicate quest]

cause honor gear doesnt sell others?

vers/mastery + crit/vers

or did i mislook?

[potent pivot]

ya lol

[delicate quest]

ow.

[potent pivot]

honor vendor has every option for rings/necks

[delicate quest]

gonna get it immediately. whaddafook

[potent pivot]

also you can craft honor level gear for more

[delicate quest]

ye but im poor.

so i cant

[potent pivot]

there's no way you're THAT poor

it costs like maybe 3-4k for most crafted pieces

[delicate quest]

let it describe it like this... a full set of PVE gear enchants, gems etc is like 1/3 of my gold

3-4k? felt like 20-30k per piece O_o

[potent pivot]

That’s like 50k+ right

[potent pivot]

Bruh

Were you buying max rank materials/embellishments?

[delicate quest]

at first, yes. i sold them again to buy low quality instead.

[potent pivot]

If you buy the lowest rank mats it’s very cheap

[delicate quest]

mh, ill check. but is it worth to craft weapons even though you get it next week for free anyways?

[potent pivot]

i have 7 haste pieces, plus insignia which has haste on it

[potent pivot]

i crafted haste/vers belt/boots and haste/vers neck, haste/vers ring, vers/mast ring

my belt/boots are conq ilvl with arcanoweave on them

there's no rush to craft daggers rn, i might craft some to enchant since we'll end up with conq crafted daggers way later anyway

but yes u don't have to craft weps

since we get free next week

[delicate quest]

ye okay.

what am i doing wrong in arena? i do like 1.8 - 2mio damage .. others do 3. when i go in, im dead in 5 sec .... wtf

dk + havoc focus me

and i cant even press anything.

lmao

or aint sub for doing big damage - more control?

whatever. came back from 0/3 to 3/3 ...

can you tell me whats wrong here?
#showtooltip
/cast [mod:shift,target=focus][] Blind

i did focus healer.

press shift + blind

nothing happens

ah... wrong keybinding. my bad.

[potent pivot]

Sub has really good dmg rn

[delicate quest]

im always lowest on damage..

[potent pivot]

Compared to many seasons in recent years of doing half the dps of everyone else

[delicate quest]

like 1 million diff

to other dps

per round

[potent pivot]

I mean it’s always going to vary a lot in arena based on what specs are in the arena and how the match goes

[delicate quest]

do i ever use shuriken storm in arena?

[potent pivot]

But sub dev keeps up atm

[delicate quest]

like for spreading poisons ?

[potent pivot]

If you can hit more than 1 player outside of dance

But it’s not an important thing no

[delicate quest]

k, thx.

[potent pivot]

There’s a lot you can probably learn about just how to do dmg from wowhead

Not all the nuances carry over from pve to pvp but

If you’re always doing a lot less than everyone else, there’s likely some improvements that can be made

[delicate quest]

i mean. most times people run around and i m either stunned or trying to stick while they fly over the arena

kinda hard sometimes.

how do i do a macro like this: press 4 - kick, shift-4 : shadowstep kick?

#showtooltip
/cast [mod:shift,target=focus][] Shadowstep
/cast [mod:shift,target=focus][] Kick

this?

[potent pivot]

#showtooltip
/cast [mod:shift] Shadowstep
/cast [mod:shift] Kick
/cast [nomod] Kick

[delicate quest]

nice, thanks!

what is this shit ... i cant run away from warrior . it always pulls me in..

[potent pivot]

spear?

[delicate quest]

ye guess. do you guys also have issues with wow voice?

in arena i always get fatal error wowvoiceproxy.exe

[potent pivot]

the in game voice chat? no one really uses it

[delicate quest]

so how do i disable it?

i dont use it either

but it always errors me out

nvm, i google it. 😉

[potent pivot]

not even sure ngl

i thought you had to manually join the voice chat

i've never gotten that kinda error before

[grave basin]

It "pumps" for two globals every 60 seconds then jerks off for the rest

Takedown chakrams and thats it

[delicate quest]

What do you guys recommend on keybindings... Kidney shot with just focus / target? or even shadowstep inside for healer focus? i dont even know - do i always take healer as focus?

[wanton breach]

you might swap your focus around, there are several ways to set a focus target, gladius and such usually have an option to make a right-click or similar on an arena target your focus target
you can also have individiual focus macros like
/focus [@arena1,exists]
this requires a lot more keybindings though and needs to be practiced

[delicate quest]

and on what circumstances do you decide on whom to focus?

i usually thought... go on your target, try to cc healer and kill. works more or less

[gusty hedge]

usually have healer on focus as rogue atleast

focus cheap focus kidney focus kick focus gouge ect.

prolly wouldnt focus cheap ur heals tho

[outer sky]

So its an assa rogue

[grave basin]

Assa rog that needs a pet to not be in cc to do anything

[wanton breach]

you missed the part with "does really good dmg"

[hushed radish]

Anyone know which add on lets you arrange your gear into categories? I'm trying to better organize PvP and other gear,

[potent pivot]

Baganator has categories

Idr if u can specify it as plainly as pvp/pve gear

Might have to create a custom category and move all of your pvp gear into it manually

[hushed radish]

thank you, I'll mess around with it.

[lean spire]

It saves ur custom sets as categories

so i have a pve and pvp armor set category in my bags

[dark kernel]

The crying just never ceases even from Inside the house. https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofpvp/s/I5hqGtfHaN

[ocean thunder]

I have played as a healer a bit this season too, other than rogue and i can't say that rogues are oppressive, nor do i have rogue in every lobby

[light apex]

Rogue still ends up playing same as it has before they just made it much easier and now everyone who wanted to hop on did so

[lime oar]

coward behavior

[light apex]

And to be honest the easiest matchups for me so far this season was other rogues, the newly converted ones play horribly

[lime oar]

bro needs to touch grass

[dark kernel]

It's all Assa rogues crying they "have" to play sub

That's just....why dude. Just chill your getting buffs lol

We want all 3 specs to be decent

[light apex]

they had to make healers do same damage as dps thats their problem

[jaunty osprey]

We only want Outlaw to be decent

[light apex]

now every kidney is kill potential cause healers contribute a lot

[dark kernel]

https://tenor.com/view/huh-do-you-sarah-sherman-saturday-night-live-is-that-so-i-dont-believe-you-gif-23824598

[light apex]

if it wasnt like that it would be fine for assa and outlaw too

[analog tapir]

dose checkpvp have some issues? like 1 week ago i saw over 100 assa rogues on top players now i see 11 o.O

[spring bough]

So what’s the assessment on midnight season 1 so far

[ocean thunder]

QQ, so my mind is on CCing healer but if i dance and stun i waste dmg.
If i kidney healer and then dance I have had complaints of "i was waiting for your kidney for ages"

What's the play?

[spring bough]

Just send CC whenever fk it lmao

[ocean thunder]

Shouldt i setup CC before my bursts? or just focus full dmg on dances?

[gusty hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/drink-drunk-leo-leonardo-di-caprio-cheers-gif-10195246

[spring bough]

You should try to set it up but it doesn’t always work like that esp in shuffle lol

[spring bough]

When more buffs

[gleaming sentinel]

Outlaw has good dmg, just needs its stuns back somehow

[jaunty terrace]

in 2s, is it better a voidweavers or oracle the best?

[jolly sierra]

voidweaver always fuck off my matches

[gusty hedge]

That & for the love of Law Fix that 1 buf or remove it and make it 2-5 😭 1 buff roll makes me wanna rage quit half the time

[dark kernel]

Void by a mile that shit is worse than last season

It's so strong

[dark kernel]

I unironically agree that outlaw is dog ass because of one rolls

I don't care if you slightly adjust rolls. But you shouldn't be able to get a roll that weak, you do nothing

[gleaming sentinel]

the new roll just makes me wonder why it even exists anymore

[proven field]

what kind of dps burst are the sub folks looking at on a go? I am getting 60-70k on assa over 15-20 secs or so

(also wish there was a button on dummy to reset CDs while you're in queue)

(first 10-15 closer to 90-100k then settles into 60-70 for next 20 ish or so)

[dark kernel]

I don't hot dummies much rn but on beta with full gear was about 60K and right now 40ish?

[jolly sierra]

XD

[gusty hedge]

pantie raiders to quality learing center?!??! not even learning?

[jolly sierra]

typo is awful too, it was changed by a gm XD

or not, maybe a bot

[proven field]

ok got 2P, time to see if that 30% garrote makes me a sub clone

[spring bough]

Typo was on purpose cause of the daycare learing center fiasco 😂

GM being funny for that

[proven field]

I read it as Luring Centre at first and was like "this... this is not better"

[waxen meteor]

!stats

[lethal roost]

These are the recommended stat priorities for each spec in PvP. Please keep in mind that having suboptimal stats on some pieces such as tier set pieces is not the end of the world.

• Assassination: Vers>Mastery>Haste>Crit
• Outlaw: Vers>Haste=/=Crit>Mastery
  You want to stack at least 20% Haste on Outlaw to lower the GCD during Adrenaline Rush.
• Subtlety: Vers>Haste to 600-700>Mastery>Crit
  Sub now uses a haste threshold to extend Dance and shorten Secret Technique's CD.
  Sub haste rating chart:
  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1483399511836725378/image.png?ex=69bc6d33&is=69bb1bb3&hm=21db8524f3add252a5f7556c91a39c6d076b5cbf29926a0ff3de6f1dad996660&

[vague comet]

yo boys

what to buy this week?

i searched it says gloves

[molten hedge]

Yeah

For sub at least afaik

[jaunty osprey]

!stats

[lethal roost]

These are the recommended stat priorities for each spec in PvP. Please keep in mind that having suboptimal stats on some pieces such as tier set pieces is not the end of the world.

• Assassination: Vers>Mastery>Haste>Crit
• Outlaw: Vers>Haste=/=Crit>Mastery
  You want to stack at least 20% Haste on Outlaw to lower the GCD during Adrenaline Rush.
• Subtlety: Vers>Haste to 600-700>Mastery>Crit
  Sub now uses a haste threshold to extend Dance and shorten Secret Technique's CD.
  Sub haste rating chart:
  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923898501529600/1483399511836725378/image.png?ex=69bc6d33&is=69bb1bb3&hm=21db8524f3add252a5f7556c91a39c6d076b5cbf29926a0ff3de6f1dad996660&

[jaunty osprey]

Oops idek why I typed that LOL

[wanton breach]

maybe the stats changed in the 80 minutes since the command was last prompted

[dark kernel]

The world of pvp sub needs to just be deleted

people from that sub are turbo dog shit

and if you defend yourself, they go to your posts in othe reddits or just DM you slurs and insults on burners

nuke that shithole

[spring bough]

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofpvp/s/x09mtEeSk0

This u?

The top response to that post is the funniest thing I’ve read in a minute

[waxen meteor]

what u guys taking for gear this week

[dark kernel]

thats not my post but yeah thats the one I linked earlier

[gusty hedge]

I asked chat gpt to identify and fix the problems outlaw rogue has in pvp and man it sure did cook

[spring bough]

What’s the fix

[gusty hedge]

too much to post but i was dying laughing cuz most of it is true!! but the talents and cap stone rework it was saying blizzard would never doo hahah
🧩 Summary (What Needs Fixing Most)
If Blizzard ONLY fixed 3 things, Outlaw would be viable:
Give consistent kill pressure (non-RNG burst)
Restore Vanish/CDR gameplay loop
Give spec a unique niche (duelist / anti-armor / tempo)

A tempo-based duelist that creates repeated kill windows through cooldown cycling, anti-armor pressure, and controlled burst — NOT RNG gambling
Key fixes baked in:
✅ Consistent burst windows
✅ Vanish/CDR gameplay restored
✅ Reduced RNG
✅ Real niche: anti-melee / anti-plate duelist with disruption

just the summary of it all but the talents and capstones actually go hard lol

shit would make outlaw a god in any setting

wish it had a link i could just send so people can look

[stoic spruce]

It just copy pasted sub

[gusty hedge]

wish u could see it

[gusty hedge]

@spring bough type this in on chatgpt and go from there

CAN YOU HELP IDENTIFY THE PROBLEMS OUTLAW ROGUE HAS IN PVP WORLD OF WARCRAFT MIDNIGHT AND CREATE SOME TALENTS AND CAPSTONES ON THE OUTLAW TREE

2nd prompt do this
build a full pvp talent tree rework and design a meta breaking outlaw pvp build

[spring bough]

Anti armor pressure u mean like the find weakness they took from us

[gusty hedge]

[halcyon timber]

So didn’t show full talent trees, talk about increasing damage as you engage in combat to a target, or how probabilistic shaping occurs as a positive feedback loop.

That isn’t rng.

[stoic spruce]

He wants outlaw hold the outlaw

Also I'm willing to bet it doesn't have the data necessary to understand Outlaw in midnight because there's a year cutoff

[spring bough]

What that mean

[gusty hedge]

3rd prompt it makes layout talent calculator but in bullet form

and goes on to create builds for solo shuffle and blitz dying over here

some of this bs people have mentioned on forums, i remember seeing king of the streets somewhere on forums before

[gusty hedge]

[spring bough]

Hooked prey sounds OP

King of the streets 🔥

Finishers reset all cooldowns?? 👀

[gusty hedge]

ai cookin a bit multi choice capstones 1 out of the 4 diff playstyles

[potent pivot]

Gloves to cata later if sub

[stoic spruce]

Is the cook in the room with us?

[stoic spruce]

It's all OP

Or bad

RtB once again left in the dust

[gusty hedge]

oh wow didnt even notice but it evenb made pvp talents lmao

[spring bough]

What if they…. Just removed bones

[stoic spruce]

Wtf is wrong with you

[gilded gulch]

then its not outlaw

[stoic spruce]

It's one of the few things that makes outlaw unique

[gilded gulch]

leather fury warrior pov

[stoic spruce]

I'd argue it's the only thing actually

[outer sky]

No theres also being bad. Thats a major part of outlaw's fantasy/identity. Its very unique in terms of how bad it is.

[gilded gulch]

Well the community opinion isnt that positive

[stoic spruce]

Outlaw hasn't been bad in years

This is the first time since cata

[gilded gulch]

Number of people i’ve seen that say outlaw and combat arent real rogue specs

because rogue not meant to be a brawler

[stoic spruce]

I'd love to know what a real rogue spec is

[outer sky]

Outlaw and assa arent real rogue specs right now. Only sub is

[outer sky]

Any spec that can cheap shot 2 people back to back

[potent pivot]

[gilded gulch]

I mean assa has alwsys been kind of fury pov

zug zug

[outer sky]

Assa squish though. Plus you still had some control tied to stealth

[stoic spruce]

So setups

[gilded gulch]

How is it any more squish

[outer sky]

No, specifically set ups in the exact manner I said

[outer sky]

Than what?

[stoic spruce]

"not set ups but set ups"

[gilded gulch]

sub at least

I mean every season assa has been good its been mostly for pveing people to death

[gleaming sentinel]

This guy is not linking a chat gpt breakdown

[gilded gulch]

its a meleecleave spec within a cc class

[potent pivot]

You’re asking how assa is more squishy than sub?

Fr?

[outer sky]

??? Well it doesnt get a big ass absorb shield every time it vanishes. It needs vanish to cheap shot so you cant always save it 100% for defensive purposes like sub can. Sub has a shorter CD and longer range on step so it can GTFO more often when it needs to. And assa doesnt have infinite access to stuns that it can use to peel both dps on the enemy team every single go. Did I miss anything?

[gilded gulch]

isnt the step range diff like 5 yd

[gusty hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/robert-redford-jeremiah-johnson-nodding-yes-nod-of-approval-gif-21066931

[stoic spruce]

Shocker, it's all OP or absolutely useless

[outer sky]

5 yards and 6 seconds and it matters. The talent that competes with it is an 8% increae in healing taken. Thats extremely good. The fact that everyone takes the step talent instead means it must be stupidly good. Because it is

[gilded gulch]

i mean its something

i miss it adding 10 yds

when it was a conduit

[outer sky]

But okay lets say you dont take the step talent. Now sub gets 8% more healing received. So either way its still tankier

[gilded gulch]

Mostly for defensive vanishes

Honestly i kindof hate the vanish shield talent even when it was a conduit

[outer sky]

Think about this. If you have a mistweaver on your team, that talent negates the last healing nerf blizzard gave them

[gilded gulch]

just stupid proofed getting a re

[outer sky]

When healing you at least

[gilded gulch]

when you previously had to get a disc to shield you first

normally the tradeoff is assa is supposed to have less control

for more sustained damage

[outer sky]

What does this have to do with it being squishy

[potent pivot]

Fade to nothing honestly even more op

10% dr during dance/vanish/etc

[gilded gulch]

honestly true

pvers always take fade

[outer sky]

Yet another reason its tankier

[gilded gulch]

yeah and people choose to not run it

being able to vanish defensively is honestly the significant one

[outer sky]

Theyre all significant

Depending on the situation

[gilded gulch]

step one never felt major

except when it bordered on 40yd in sl

[outer sky]

Has to me. Especially with the silhouette pvp talent

Like if you need to step your healer but its on CD for 2 more seconds as assa you could die there but if you were sub you could live

Idk how thats not significant

You can also dance defensively

[gilded gulch]

niche scenarios

[outer sky]

Happens often enough

[gilded gulch]

but normally the tradeoff is assa is supposed to have more constant damage

[outer sky]

Ok give me the counter argument. How is assa not squishier than sub?

[gilded gulch]

assa should never have more control than sub

thats just inherently wrong

[outer sky]

It never has

Its had more than it has now

But not more than sub

[gilded gulch]

Yeah ic garrote spam was kind of stupid

[outer sky]

Thats still in the game it just doesnt aoe and it doesnt lasg quite as long

But its tied to 2m CDs

And only really affects casters

[gilded gulch]

Yeah it been aoe was quite stupid

when strang was st

[outer sky]

How was that more control than cheap shot spam every shadow dance?

[gilded gulch]

cant you just re anyway

[potent pivot]

Nah

[gilded gulch]

unless this is shuffle

[outer sky]

🤦‍♂️

[gilded gulch]

shuffle is a bad bracket

[outer sky]

I need to stop getting baited into this shit

[gilded gulch]

It was less but it was still very good

especially in seasons assa damage was overtuned

[outer sky]

1. How is assa just as tanky as sub?

2. How has it ever had more control than sub?

[severe helm]

what about when assa had dance lol

[gilded gulch]

it was close enough in control

[outer sky]

1 charge and no CDR

[severe helm]

sub didnt have cdr back then either iirc

[gilded gulch]

i dont think a rot spec should be able to drop people in 2 gcds

from 50%

[outer sky]

I think it did. But it still had 2 charges for sure

[severe helm]

well assas not really rot anymore

it usually has two builds

one is more rotty

one is more bursty

[gilded gulch]

yeah im saying like

[severe helm]

been like that since hte DF s3 rework

I dont see an issue with that though

[gilded gulch]

tww it kind of was

rot and still could nuke

[safe pelican]

Dragonflight assa was peak

[severe helm]

cap

df assa was dummy broken

[outer sky]

This isnt the standard design of the spec. Its only been like this a few seasons. Normally it was a high ST spec with envenom being its big damage and bleeds being just for energy. Youre clinging to am outlier. So can you tell me how its just as tanky as sub or had as much control or no?

[gilded gulch]

lmao df assa

[severe helm]

s4 was so aids

I played it

[gilded gulch]

i ran at healer every game

[severe helm]

felt unfair

[gilded gulch]

and won by 2nd dm

[severe helm]

just delete someone randomly

[gilded gulch]

all of s1

xddd

[safe pelican]

2nd dm went crazy

[gilded gulch]

i see an rdruid or rsham

on other team

dead by 2mins

[severe helm]

rdruid would straight up die in tranq lol

[gilded gulch]

i also liked killing rdruids in tranq

with bladeflurry cleave

nice immune bro

[severe helm]

works on turtle too

[gilded gulch]

yep

[gilded gulch]

I said the control was comparable

and still too high for how much damage it did consistently

[outer sky]

It wasnt. Sub had decisively more control. Whether you think assa still had too much or not has nothing to do with that. You also said assa wasnt squishier than sub

And im just trying to figure out how you concluded that

[gilded gulch]

i dont think step range is as big a deal as you make it

[outer sky]

Who cares

[gilded gulch]

assa had enough control

[outer sky]

Look at the rest of the list

[gilded gulch]

for how the damage was too high

[outer sky]

Nothing to do with what you said

....

[gilded gulch]

its relative

[outer sky]

Ok

Youre right

[gilded gulch]

assa had more consistent damage

[outer sky]

Assa is a tank spec

[gilded gulch]

since sub was kind of a noodle

outside dancing

[outer sky]

I should have known that

[proven field]

is that why people boo me when I join blitzes

[outer sky]

Tank spec that could stun lock the entire team every go

Thats obviously correct

How dare I question it

[gilded gulch]

Do you even stun all 3 without your wizard teammate crossing at least one

[outer sky]

No no I agree with you

Sub and assa are just as tanky

Always had same control

[gilded gulch]

assa had less control for being able to rot people

[outer sky]

No it didnt

It had as much or more control

Like you said

[gilded gulch]

while still being able to drop people 50-0 in 2 gcds

[outer sky]

Thats not a fried take at all

I was wrong

Please accept my apology

[gilded gulch]

assa is a pve spec for a reason