pvp

[gleaming sentinel]

Outlaw getting 12% buff was surprising tbh

Jackpot roll games are gonna go crazy

[outer sky]

I dont think its going to be enough tbh. But a buff is a buff

[gleaming sentinel]

I will hit my seasonal goals, this will just make it easier

[glass ibex]

Why would haste be #1 prio for sub in pvp?
Sacking all of mastery just to get 1 more gcd inside dance? With minimal haste invest (all the off pieces without mastery) you get 1/2 extra gcds from haste anyways but you also have a decent chunk of mastery on top of it.
Am I missing something?

[potent pivot]

2 GCDs

18% haste (~600-700 haste rating)

[glass ibex]

I know, but I don't see it being worth it over mastery in pvp

[potent pivot]

It is

[glass ibex]

How much mastery do you have with full haste gear?

[outer sky]

So right now we're playing to get enough haste for 2 globals extra of dance, not just 1. Finishers also arent doing that much damage right now anyway so investing a lot of stats into buffing them isnt very high value. Also, this current iteration of sub has a lot of interactions with shadow technique procs. Your apex talents use them, and you even use them for energy during dance with the shadowcraft talent, in addition to what shadow techniques always does. And haste also buffs your auto attack speed which means more shadow techniques procs. And finally haste reduces the cooldown of Secret Technique which is decent damage.

[potent pivot]

I don’t even worry about it

once you feel how much better haste plays thats all that matters

[glass ibex]

These are my current stats and gear.
Getting 18% in PvE I understand, because it's pve, target is static and you can manage to squeeze all your buttons in the SD timer. But don't foget that Goup De Grace put you on a 1.2s gcd, so getting those 18% is EXACT timing to do all of them, nevermind ping, brainlag etc. So PvE suggests to get around ~19-20% so your dance is +1.3s-1.5s increase so you manage to do it.
There's no way you're doing gcd perfect timings in pvp

A simple blink from a mage breaks that 2nd gcd for you

[outer sky]

The 18% number is in pvp

Like after your gear scales up

[glass ibex]

Where do you think that suggestion came from?

18% is 1.2s of increased timer

which is exactly 2 extra gcd including goup de grace

if you're a robot

on a target dummy

[potent pivot]

not exactly

thats why we talk in actual haste RATING, not % as well

[glass ibex]

Whatever, it's for pve, you're not getting 2nd gcd with those numbers in pvp

[potent pivot]

yes, you are

600-700 haste rating

gives you extra margin

[glass ibex]

Is your target gonna stand and do nothing? Any movement from your target is .1 .2 .3 from your dance and you lose that extra gcd

[outer sky]

Yeah theyre stunned

[glass ibex]

You need a bigger margin than for pve to adjust for it

[potent pivot]

nah

[glass ibex]

7s

Kindey cheap is 7 seconds

[outer sky]

But like yeah, you also have a constant slow on people

Crippling poison 65%

Iike you could make this argument about anything really

Its pvp people are gunna try and get away from you when you have damage

You have to play to not let them as much as possible

Thats just the game

[glass ibex]

And this is exactly my argument for why are you trying to chase perfect SD timer in pvp, over simple "more damage". A bit of haste with focus on mastery will guarantee 1 extra gcd while providing more dmg in that shadow dance.

[potent pivot]

its not a "perfect SD timer"

[outer sky]

I also explained other benefits to haste besides the 2nd extra dance global

[outer sky]

None of us are omniscient. This advice is based on testing and theorycrafting. Honor gear is easy to get. Try for yourself a haste build and a mastery build. If youre winning more with the mastery build, then play it. Who cares what our advice is if youre still winning more.

[glass ibex]

This is my dmg breakdown from a BG (a single pretty bad example, but whatever). Mastery is doing quite a lot here

[potent pivot]

you can't quantify haste's value from a damage meter

[glass hazel]

if you believe mastery is better, play mastery build its just that easy

[glass ibex]

Oh yeah ofc, I was just curious why. I thought it would be more than "it's 1 extra gcd".

[potent pivot]

it is more than that

[outer sky]

Im not really sure you can look at that and judge its value because haste can give you more eviscerates in a dance window and a shorter CD on secret technique. So that would put them higher up on the meter because theyre being pressed more often.

So like both haste and mastery can produce a meter like that

[vague latch]

also shadowstrike is getting buffed

so having more globals for that might be a thinng

[outer sky]

A whole 3.5%

[vague latch]

ye

[glass ibex]

Yeah, I'm not saying have 0 haste. RN my Secret is same cd as shadow dance (you're not pressing them separately anyways)

[outer sky]

With tier shadow blades will last 18s in pvp so you can potentially get 2 sectecs within a blades window with enough haste

[potent pivot]

^and stronger kill target swaps from that

[glass ibex]

That's why I asked for your stats, I wanted to see the difference between full mastery and full haste. Because if you got full haste you get 0.6s longer shadow dance and I have no reference on how much mastery you lose

[potent pivot]

pretty much everyone is going for the 18% haste thing rn, and testing even higher haste on alts

[outer sky]

All we have access to is honor gear right now anyway so our stats arent necessarily what any of us would consider optimal since we have to just take whatever the honor gear vendor has

[glass ibex]

True, later on it might be "easy" to get 2nd gcd without losing much of other stats. But I was talking about current gear, not possible bis.

[outer sky]

Even on tuesday it'll change

We'll get access to some conq gear/crafted gear

Its usually advisable to gear for your bis not gearing for just this week

[glass ibex]

Yeah, but still, you gotta understand which stats to go for. You're not gonna have a chance to play around with stats once season hits

That's why I'm asking questions :)

[outer sky]

I have 4 rogues i usually try different gearing strategies on them unless theres a very obvious meta. I may even try a mastery build on one of them

[vague latch]

idk usually bis gear changes based on simming a few weeks in every season

sometimes the crafted piece moves

[glass ibex]

do people sim for pvp?

[potent pivot]

no

[glass ibex]

How?

[potent pivot]

they don't

[outer sky]

Yeah true but in this case there's a very specific breakpoint based on the length of the gcd

[glass ibex]

btw what trinkets are you guys using? Badge or Insignia?

[outer sky]

Insignia

[potent pivot]

insignia

[glass ibex]

Is it still Crit badge for conquest

[potent pivot]

yea

think everyone will run insig now

[glass ibex]

Yeah, with how many Shadow Dances on tap we have, badge seems worse

I still bought it cause "you always buy badge". But I guess now it makes sense

[molten hedge]

Oh that’s interesting. I must’ve missed that

For insig

[outer sky]

Yeah dance uptime is so high its just better to have a more frequent buff then a low uptime targeted buff

[potent pivot]

the game is so pve now that just playing for uptime on things is getting stronger and stronger

set up/burst is so neutered in the game

gotta change with the game if you wanna keep up

[molten hedge]

Boys what else did I miss? I fucking level 80-87 in 3 hours ln I was so locked in. I missed everything. Like I read the notes and saw the initial stuff you guys talked about. But anything else major? Sub still seems good in 3s

[potent pivot]

sub got nerfed by at least ~5% overall dps, burst being the most effected part

[outer sky]

Ngl I thought we'd get hit WAY harder

[molten hedge]

Sucks, but it could be worse.

[potent pivot]

yeh

[glass ibex]

Is there an easy way to "see" upscaled gear without being in pvp instance? It seems hitting a pvp dummy doesn't work anymore

[potent pivot]

they fixed that

[outer sky]

You also have to remember most classes/specs got nerfed. In context we're probably not much worse off than before

[glass ibex]

Does it scale up in duels?

[outer sky]

Yes

[glass ibex]

Nice thanks!

[molten hedge]

What’s tldr on assa? I saw they got 4% buff after typo I saw. But don’t understand why they nerfed implacable

[potent pivot]

yes but they fixed the dummies in silvermoon

[potent pivot]

because assa burst was actually good

[outer sky]

Trickz is saying there was potential for a gimmicky one shot

[potent pivot]

wasn't even gimmicky

[outer sky]

Wonder if it'll still be good burst.

35% is a lot

They also didnt nerf MW as much as i thought they would

20% to UDK though sheesh

[potent pivot]

i think it'll be good still

[molten hedge]

My friend plays assa (he’s good), and he showed me the one shot. Basically could kill me in a kidney on assa

Wasn’t as insane as last ssn but respectable pre nerfs

[outer sky]

Trickz said it could hit for over 300k

If so that would be as much or more than last season

[vocal surge]

^

Ezpz +100k DPS sustained

[molten hedge]

Well I was already around half health when he’d do kingsbane

So I could see that

I think he was playing fatebound too

[outer sky]

@grave basin We're not net neutral at all stop spreading that crap around lol

10% to secret technique, lash macabre, and shadow clones doesn't become neutral just because the strike buff and the evisc nerf basically cancel out

[potent pivot]

👀

which stream is mister azliaris spreading misinformation in?

[outer sky]

Bicmex's discord

[potent pivot]

ahh

💀

[glass ibex]

In case we dip more into SS, would the tree look something like this?

[potent pivot]

swap WM for Veiltouched

and you've pretty much got it

[glass ibex]

Really? Is veitouched that good?

[outer sky]

No but its better than wm

[potent pivot]

^

[potent pivot]

you can swap Rotten+PV for WM+1pt in Finality, but both combinations are similar

rotten+pv is more than fine

[glass ibex]

btw has anyone tried using Ancient Arts optimization in pvp?

[vocal surge]

once you reach ~40% haste, you can throw optimization out the window

[glass ibex]

The one where you SS at max cp to proc rank 1 apex into 1 finisher into another SS at full cp. Basically playing around rank 1 of the apex

[vocal surge]

cause you'll proc AA 24/7

[glass ibex]

Read above, I'm not talking about last rank of AA

[vocal surge]

Ah

[glass ibex]

I assume Finality is the "weakest" talent we have and for BG you'd swap that into First Dance, yeah?

[potent pivot]

first dance is pretty weak

i don't really blitz at all though

[glass ibex]

In battlegrounds? +2s on Shadow dance for free?

You have that all the time

[potent pivot]

idk if anyone has ever run it

[outer sky]

Ive tried it a few times. Hes right its not bad. You basically have it like every dance because of how sub plays. Either sitting the base or crossing the map to try and ninja one.

[glass ibex]

Well whatever, if you were to remove 1 point would that be Finality?

[outer sky]

Idk if id go out of my way to get it though

[potent pivot]

first dance > finality would be less burst in your stun window

but that kinda goes for anything you'd be able to swap

[pastel burrow]

Considering in pve this is like a 0.2% optimization and only during bloodlust

I don't think it's worth in pvp

[glass ibex]

Well I feel like maxing mastery and having 4 extra gcd alleviates the loss of 7% bonus crit dmg when we have no crit anyways and crit being 50% less effective in pvp

[potent pivot]

play what you want, you're going to justify what you want regardless so just do it idk

[glass ibex]

Could be different against players. It was worth doing every shadow dance before and it's always different against players, could be a thing only in pvp

[potent pivot]

i don't think its a big enough deal either way, its blitz

if it fits your playstyle, why not

[pastel burrow]

Purely feelscraft on my end but when I was trying it during skrims and bgs I didn't notice any payoff, but yeah maybe you'll have more luck with it

[glass ibex]

How do you even test it properly, you can try live, but even when you press same buttons over and over it could be completely different based on procs and what not

And you can't sim it

[dark kernel]

What should I be playing for single Target raid damage

Outlaw or sub

[potent pivot]

Lots of pvping

[dark kernel]

I trust you guys more than the PVE channel

[pastel burrow]

Just do sub

[potent pivot]

Outlaw sims higher but prolly sub

[outer sky]

You queue several games with what youre trying to test and several games doing the "normal" way. And you look to see if you're winning more one way or the other over the course of a lot of games

[vocal surge]

Outlaw

[glass ibex]

Sub, there's a lot of random aoe in the raid and sub has a lot of aoe on demand

[potent pivot]

Outlaw always tends to sim higher

[vocal surge]

If fight has downtime, a lot of it at that go sub

[potent pivot]

Then doesn’t perform

[pastel burrow]

Sub historically gets put in the cuck chair 30% less than outlaw in raid fights

But maybe this tier will be different who knows with how blizz designed the fights

[glass ibex]

Most ppl go for sub/assa by default since you're crafting a weapon first and law doesn't share same weapon

[dark kernel]

All right I've already been doing sub for Mythic plus anyway so I'll stick with it

[glass ibex]

• Sub just got a single target buff (in pve) which puts it closer (or same) as law on paper and with "more flexible" damage profile sub will be better (most likely)

[dark kernel]

Sold

[glass ibex]

Then next week they give assa a random aura buff and everyone will play assa everywhere

[outer sky]

Letting us mog daggers as swords/maces/axes was such a huge W for blizzard

[glass ibex]

Now allow us to use daggers on law or swords on other rogues

[outer sky]

You can use a dagger in the offhand as outlaw and it doesnt hurt anything im pretty sure

It was that way in DF

Not sure if it still is

[glass ibex]

Yeah, but you trying to craft max lvl weapon. Sure you can use it in the off-hand, you still need a main hand, having good off-hand doesn't give you much

[ionic crown]

which trinket is best for sub?

[outer sky]

Insignia

[ionic crown]

TY

[stoic spruce]

Boss said to call him when I get his message

Sheeeeit

I'll pass

[final pewter]

is there any site that you would recommend to follow for sub pvp? stat prio and talents? for bgs mainly 🙂

[stoic spruce]

Atm not really

Usually you'd go to Murlok.io

This early is a bit of a gamble

[potent pivot]

stats rn are haste to 18%->vers/mast

[final pewter]

love you

[potent pivot]

murlok.io will be more reliable to check in like a month from now

[final pewter]

is deathstalker unusable or is it prefered for bgs? not sure if the info on sites is old or updated 😄

[spring bough]

love finding a 500 rep quest thats already completed in my quest log lol

[potent pivot]

unusable. there's talent links in the pins

[fathom crag]

badge blitz / insignia arenas

but i would play badge at the start of arenas tho cus it gives haste

[spring bough]

@potent pivot they updated the raid ST simulationcraft site

how the season start lookin now lol

[dark moon]

Is this for pve?

Sub got buffs, but still 95k st

[potent pivot]

might not be updated

[dark moon]

100% its not

It's 6% st buff

[potent pivot]

these charts are updated sporadically as the TCers update their spec's sims

[potent pivot]

some aren't updated, some weren't even finished before the changes

warrior completely missing

ret too

fookin sandbaggers

boomkin too? lmao

the usual suspects

[fathom crag]

if warrior becomes meta that roar talent gna be very annoying

esp when u can’t track it as good as before

[potent pivot]

zerker roar?

surely minicc will be able to track it right

[fathom crag]

hopefully haha

[grave pier]

why would we want this and not weaponmaster?

@potent pivot

[potent pivot]

[potent pivot]

#pvp message

read all the talents linked from here down

[grave pier]

Soz dont get it

doesn't really say why we want warning signs rather than weapon master

[potent pivot]

it does

[stoic spruce]

I get it

I shall beam my knowledge into your brain

[potent pivot]

attack speed = more unseen blade procs, shadow tech procs (energy and combo points), apex talent combo points refunds, etc

[stoic spruce]

In a word, synergy

[potent pivot]

yep

[grave pier]

appreciate it

whats this thing about Haste build cuz i got 8% rn 😄

yet to be honour build thou so prob wont matter

[potent pivot]

haste extends dance duration now through the deepening shadows talent

and base haste reduces sec tech CD

[grave pier]

dayumn so new bis is to go for haste rather than mastery

[potent pivot]

you go for both

you get haste up to the threshold, then mast

[potent pivot]

i don't think we can customize what minicc shows but maybe tellmewhen could work? idk if that works for enemy stuff though

[fathom crag]

tmw dont work for enemy stuff

[potent pivot]

idk what all blizzard has whitelisted

it seems like they've been cherry picking what we can see through minicc/bigdebuffs

like turtle and dispersion supposedly just got whitelisted by them today

so now they show up on minicc

[severe helm]

Oh nice I def noticed turtle didn't work before lol

Thought it was weird

[hybrid sapphire]

❤️❤️❤️

[final pewter]

tmw doesnt even work for self buffs when in combat right?

guys what is ur opener as subtlety? do u immidiately shadowdance after a cheapshot for all the shadowdance dmg buffs?

[lone jasper]

Retri pala buffs 😂

Just noticed this

[molten hedge]

It’d be nice if my healer could see when I evasion lol or did they change that

[molten hedge]

They got buffed in pvp. Not so fast buddy. But ret is still rly good regardless

[analog tapir]

they nerf it even more 🙁 i dunno what this will change but im getting mad

[analog tapir]

and do they mean all implacable damage ? or just the last one ?

[molten hedge]

All

[outer sky]

They need to stop nerfing rets damage and nerf what actually makes it broken or else we'll keep doing this every other patch

[analog tapir]

LIKE W3HY THEY NERF ASSA EVEN MORE WE ARE A DED SPEC fuck blizzard man

[outer sky]

We have a few more rounds of tuning scheduled already maybe they'll buff it. But i seriously doubt they'll buff it enough. If outlaw can get another 10% or so then it may start to be worth looking at but idk

[iron flicker]

They buffed it, not nerf it

[outer sky]

Piss 4% buff alongside a 35% nerf to its burst

[analog tapir]

yeah i canceld my subscription today

[outer sky]

Don't even blame you

But like

[snow harness]

assa is a buff

sin will be a top dawg in 2s bro

im looking forward to playing that

[analog tapir]

Implacable Strikes damage decreased by 35% in PvP.

[snow harness]

thats nothing

[analog tapir]

DECREASE

[outer sky]

35% nerf to the specs burst is nothing

[snow harness]

play a long game in 2s with assa (or 3s) and check ur dmg breakdown

strikes isnt doing all that much, its rupture / garrote , and u get 4% on that

[outer sky]

Thats such a 1 dimensional way of thinking about the game

Its your kill window

Youre not playing to parse youre playing to kill the other team

[snow harness]

kingsbane buffed 4%, deathmark buffed 4%

[outer sky]

Deathmark

[analog tapir]

yeah caus Deathmark is doing SOOOO much

[outer sky]

Shits trash even when it doesnt get cleansed

[snow harness]

net buff regardless, if ur looking for kill window burst play sub, sin is a spec that takes the opponents into deep waters

[outer sky]

That design philosophy behind sin is very new. And its not even consistent. Last season and in DF it had a ton of burst

Really just TWW s1 and s2 was it a rot out damp spec with negligible burst

Envenom was usually the big damage and bleeds were just for energy

[snow harness]

there was this one guy id watch on youtube during slands, he would play disc/sin rogue, and he played night fae, i forget the ability but it was fun watching him

sepsis thats it

[outer sky]

Sepsis yeah

[snow harness]

miss that

[outer sky]

I miss cheap shot not having a CD

[snow harness]

yea i played a cpl assa games, and it feels good but mostly its cause im 2v2 double dps and i just get my dots up and run around lol

[analog tapir]

so if i wanna contact blizzard on twitter wich account do i send it to ? (not that they care fuck all ) but who ?

[snow harness]

affli warlock buff, wonder how thatl be

affi/rdruid might be annoying

[outer sky]

The lock i plat with is an r1 affi and he doesnt seem to hype over the aff changes

[snow harness]

lmaoo

shamans always lowkey fly under the radar and walk away wit hthe most buffs out of the notes and no1 sais a thing

granted ele is dog and rsham to, but enhance is a sleeper it has big burst

curious to see where shamans are at on reset

[outer sky]

I think enhancement is going to be crazy good

[snow harness]

same i want to play beast cleave lol

[maiden gull]

how high is the threshold?

[outer sky]

18% in pvp, 600-700 worth of raw stats

[maiden gull]

ty!

[lime oar]

assa is the best rogue spec rn

[analog tapir]

i mean ill still cope and play assa caus its the one spec i like

[outer sky]

I thought you unsubbed

[analog tapir]

yeah

[stiff cedar]

if you get your proper go off it definitely can bang and its getting more dmg, bit less cc than sub but overall it'll def do good especially if you play something like assa dev where your lack of stuns just doesn't matter anymore

[molten hedge]

Are you really 1500 hardstuck, or is that propaganda

[analog tapir]

propaganda

i reached 2.2

[stiff cedar]

sub probs close behind at least tho but yeah assa stonks 📈

[outer sky]

"Bit less CC"

[analog tapir]

@molten hedge

[snow harness]

assa is legit fun

im excited to see how it fairs especially in 2s with a healer

hpal/assa is gonna be rlly strong i think

[stiff cedar]

yeah ofc but kingsbane hella fun to press

[lime oar]

assa isn’t just fun it’s legit better than sub lol do the math zicore

[outer sky]

Idk if I have the energy to respond to all the cope in this discord lately

[lime oar]

all*

my assa cranks idk

u guys must be pressing the wrong buttons

[severe helm]

skirm heroes are funny

[lime oar]

i’m trolling

[frozen walrus]

My Totemic Enhance was smashing. I can't be they buffed us that much.

[outer sky]

This guy is so amazed by my skirm performance lol

[outer sky]

Yeah ngl enhance looks fun. But I would heed Bigdam's warning. Enhance definitely didnt need a buff. That means when season goes live theyre going to be one shotting from day one. Thats never a good position to be in. Especially for a class like shaman which blizzard has shown they're not afraid to nerf heavily.

The comp id like to see tested is affi/enhance

Becasue they buffed UA dispel damage by 25% and buffed enh flame shock dispel damage by 600%

[frozen walrus]

That's true. But I'll take my spot in the sun while I can.

[outer sky]

Imagine dispelling both at once

[frozen walrus]

Enhance/BM Hunter is what I want to try in 3s. Hunter destroys the casters while Enhance destroys the melee.

[molten hedge]

In the 12.0.05 patch affi dispel increased by 15% per UA stack

Could be disgusting

Prob get nerfed

[outer sky]

Nah I mean come tuesday

After these buffs

[molten hedge]

Yeah

I’m just thinking down the road

[outer sky]

If you clean someone with UA and flame shock on them

[molten hedge]

Affi needs dispel protection

[outer sky]

Thats gunna truck

[molten hedge]

One 8 sec cd and ur shit is fucked

More dispel protection*

I love aff

Favorite caster

Then destro and boomie

[outer sky]

The lock i play with is an r1 affi

[molten hedge]

Mhmm

[outer sky]

Hes really good

Carries my ass

[molten hedge]

I saw some clips

U shared back in the gap

[outer sky]

Gap?

[molten hedge]

Lol when it wasn’t horrible

Affi has like no comps

[outer sky]

Yeahhhh

[molten hedge]

Splay and assa aff is like it

[outer sky]

Well may change tuesday

[molten hedge]

Gotta be the least comps

Idk why feral aff wasn’t rly ever played

Or was it

[outer sky]

Id really like to see how much damage it would do to a healer if they dispel UA and flame shock off the same person

[molten hedge]

Ya if anything it could be a dampener

And oom someone

[outer sky]

Or even

Once the healer can't keep themselves topped

They cant dispel

Without dying

[molten hedge]

Yeah UA was already top dam so if it didn’t get dispelled it would do a metric fuck ton

[outer sky]

Yeah so with an enh shamans flame shock and these new buffs

Its pick your poison

[vague latch]

windwalker monk needs to chill lol

[outer sky]

Theyre gunna chill on tuesday when the 20% nerf to rushing wind kick hits

[vague latch]

how did they even end up that thicc

[outer sky]

Because they dont do anything but damage so they need to do a lot of it

[compact moat]

hello, what enchanting can I use for my pvp honor gear?

[outer sky]

I dont think anyone has really tested enchants very much. But you definitely need to get the Pyrium Weapon Chain on one of your weapons

[vague latch]

weapon chains still work ?_?

[outer sky]

Yes

[vague latch]

nyoom.mp4

sheesh i thought those weren't around anymore for two expansions

[snow harness]

i

i'll bep laying beast cleave aswell, from a bm hunter pov

[potent pivot]

They weren’t

[outer sky]

Longer than that. This enchant is from cata

[vague latch]

ye i did cata pvp to 1800

[spring bough]

https://x.com/lontar_wow/status/2032816722474922298?s=46&t=YKaisWqFkCTf8y-DfuEaHw

Lontar (@Lontar_wow)

ARENA TIERLIST PREDICTION FOR WEDNESDAY

X · Mar 14, 2026, 1:50 PM

[vague latch]

good times

[stoic spruce]

Vdh does dps levels of dmg

[outer sky]

This looks EXTREMELY sus

[stoic spruce]

Veng

There's just like

3 vdhs

[spring bough]

Bout to PvP with mine to grief

[stoic spruce]

Get good with veng and you'll see

[spring bough]

Annihilator veng was great leveling

[outer sky]

Aff, arms, fury resto shaman, surv are probably all B tier post tuning

Pres probably A not S

[snow harness]

mark my words havoc dh is gonna be a problem

they have insane healing

[spring bough]

It’s up there in dmg now too

[outer sky]

Outlaw is probably still C

[spring bough]

Reaver spec is back big time

[snow harness]

yea they got buffed i think for dmg

[outer sky]

Not while theyre stunned

[stoic spruce]

Well now it takes 2 stuns to become immune

So lowkey cheap might not be all that it's cracked out to be

[outer sky]

If your teammate does good damage then 2 cheaps every set of DRs and 2 cheaps plus kidney every other set is still plenty to cycle through cooldowns. Its better than what most specs get

I love how assa is in the same tier as 3 tank specs

Like what happened

[vague latch]

the jank overran the cool jank

[stoic spruce]

Tanks do good dmg now

Save for blood

Idk what happened to them

[outer sky]

Theyre getting some pretty nasty nerfs on Tuesday though

[stoic spruce]

I'm leveling prot warr next

[lunar forge]

Whos hard to take down as sub? Or rogue in general

[stoic spruce]

Healing yeah

[molten hedge]

lock

ret

[outer sky]

Rets and mages are the worst

[molten hedge]

mage

[stoic spruce]

I think it was targeted towards vdh and gdudu

Tbh

[lunar forge]

Ye not touching pala

Actually in war mode I killed a few locks

[molten hedge]

its diferent when they have a healer

[stoic spruce]

I'd kill for an extra kidney charge for outlaw

[molten hedge]

and they can press everything in a stun

[outer sky]

Locks can die but they have to misplay pretty bad. Rets and mages wont die even if they misplay

[stoic spruce]

It'd make me forget it's woes

[molten hedge]

and then port

and line you

[compact moat]

what about legs and feet/ armors

[outer sky]

Not sure. Its probably not worth enchanting honor gear anyway besides the weapon chain

We will know early next week most likely

[outer sky]

People would lose their shit

[lunar forge]

How useless sin in pvp? 🫪

[stoic spruce]

People do regardless, might as well make it justified

[outer sky]

Slightly less useful than the lifeguard they have at olympic swimming competitions

[lunar forge]

Got it 🥶

[spring bough]

tank spec in skirms even got people talking shit to me lololol

[stoic spruce]

They're a special type of person

[outer sky]

Blizzard needs to just put their foot down and say no more tanks in rated pvp. Or AT LEAST none in arena. Maybe BGs is fine

[analog tapir]

assa do feel strongerr on ptr though

[outer sky]

They also need to make it so that you cant get rank 1 in shuffle unless you also got Legend that season.

[outer sky]

https://tenor.com/view/lucy-van-pelt-charlie-brown-peanuts-football-gag-charlie-brown-football-gif-11923221503781979049

[outer sky]

There are 2 possibilities. Either they revert the cheap shot change and assa can be good based on tuning, or they dont revert the cheap shot change and it remains a raid spec

There is no 3rd option

And theres never going to be one

As much as I hate to say it

[indigo tiger]

Are those PvP talents in the pinned message still viable?

[stoic spruce]

I don't think any spec has changed it's pvp talents in years

All the bad ones still bad all the good ones still good

But yes

[indigo tiger]

Popo!

[stoic spruce]

Das me! :D

Omg hi!

[indigo tiger]

It's been a long time.

I have been using these talents: CUQAByFP3pExAEG41/8+e6b8fDgZ2mBAAAAAmtZmZZiZZZmxMjZgZGzsMmtZmZYZMzwMjBMjBAAAwMMDLmlZMbzwADmZbahWmNmZwMzMYGD

But it seems that I might want to test these pinned ones out, out of curriosity.

[outer sky]

Popo thought you meant the literal pvp talents like the 3 extra talents you select that only work in pvp

[stoic spruce]

Dew it

I did

But those talents are good for now

Until more data arrives

And we're geared

[spring bough]

and all the good ones we had removed 🙁

[snow harness]

how come i cant join hammer of wrath paladin discord

sais oops cant accept invite

[stoic spruce]

Real

[molten hedge]

No rogs allowed

[snow harness]

im thinking of maining ret for pve

with all these pve buffs

i wanted to see what they think of ret now for like m+ an raid

but i cant join 🙁

[potent pivot]

Doesn’t say invalid/old invite link?

[analog tapir]

@potent pivot did u see the buff and neerf that is incoming ?

[snow harness]

nope, i dont think ive ever been in there so i dont think im banned, weird

[potent pivot]

Ya

[analog tapir]

thoughts?

[potent pivot]

Are you at your account server limit maybe?

[potent pivot]

Assa got a bit of a burst nerf but an overall buff
Sub burst/overall got nerfed by a chunk

[snow harness]

ill leave a discord and try again

na still wont work

[potent pivot]

Strange, normally it’ll say why

[snow harness]

actually you know what, i think i was in there like 2-3 years ago and got into a debate about the russia/ukraine war and i got banned LOL i think taht was the server, damn unlucky

[outer sky]

Im banned from that server too

[snow harness]

my hunter is 243 ilvl in pve, and im thinking about maybe maining ret instead

cause the buffs are huge and ret is fun, its a tough choice

only thing is ret melee only downside

[hidden mirage]

what buff ? it was overall nerf, not a buff

[potent pivot]

Incorrect

[hidden mirage]

read the patch notes again

[potent pivot]

You prolly should

Sec

[spring bough]

Is that from the blizz blue post

[potent pivot]

@hidden mirage

[hidden mirage]

and what ? this is probably before they updated it.

[potent pivot]

Nope

[snow harness]

lmao

the 4% buff is the real version

[spring bough]

Is wowhead right or is blue post right

[lone jasper]

I also read that its reduced 😄

[snow harness]

fake news

[potent pivot]

Because the wowhead one is wrong

[spring bough]

No one will know till Tuesday

[hidden mirage]

how can you know what is real

lmao

[potent pivot]

The official blizzard site blue post says increased

[potent pivot]

The official one has to be

[spring bough]

Inb4 Tuesday notes posted say decrease

[hidden mirage]

well, wowhead takes data from blizzard

[potent pivot]

Ye but they probably didn’t edit it to correct it

[dark adder]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/class-tuning-incoming-march-17/2271691

It does say increased on the forums

[potent pivot]

Can’t trust a secondary site over the official

[dark adder]

I just double checked both. Wowhead says decreased.

Blizzard forums says increased

[potent pivot]

They’d have to be brain dead to nerf assa in pvp rn either way

So it seems pretty obvious what’s correct

[hidden mirage]

well they literally overkilled the only ability that does dmg for assa in pvp 4% wont save it

[outer sky]

Yes but this is blizz

so that criteria is met

[potent pivot]

Idk I kinda saw the burst nerf coming

[spring bough]

They misspelled stuff in their notes wouldn’t surprise me if it says decreased on Tuesday lol

[gilded gulch]

rare moment win a skirm 2v3

[snow harness]

is there any new m+ tier lists since the patch note release?

im tryna google it but cant find any

[outer sky]

Thats fine if they nerf the burst but that was legit the only thing making the spec somewhat playable. 4% buff won't compensate for losing that

[hidden mirage]

ye, but 35% is too much imho, without giving any buffs to energy or other abilities, 4% is a joke. Also why did they overbuffed sub doesnt make sense either even for PvE.

[outer sky]

Idk ask the pve channel

[potent pivot]

It’s not like they nerfed the burst by 100%

[outer sky]

35% is a lot

20% would have been more reasonable IMO

[potent pivot]

35% to 1 portion of the burst

KB, Coins, etc got buffed

[potent pivot]

Over buffed? Lol..?

[outer sky]

how much of the burst was implacable responsible for?

probably hard to tell

with this shit meter

[potent pivot]

Yea

[hidden mirage]

yes, sub was already op before the notes

[potent pivot]

It got nerfed my guy

[hidden mirage]

and buffed at the same time

[potent pivot]

It got ST pve buffs which were needed

And pve aoe nerfs

[potent pivot]

It got a net nerf in pvp by quite a margin

[outer sky]

I wish they would redesign this talent. Make it a 2 point talent that reduces the cooldown of kingsbane by 15 seconds per point

[potent pivot]

Sub was closer to the bottom of the ST dps pack in pve so 6% to their ST in pve is not that crazy

But sub got nerfed in pvp by ~5% overall dps or more

And it’s burst got nerfed harder than that

[gilded gulch]

ngl it is funny

[potent pivot]

So idk how you can say it got buffed

[gilded gulch]

watching so many people instant trinket wall the first cheap

without any commit

[molten hedge]

I like what zicore said yday. Lots of other stuff got nerfed. So it makes it feel less bad 🤣

[potent pivot]

Yep

[molten hedge]

I wonder what the warrior buffs mean. They’re too braindead to have someone like lvladen explain with math

[outer sky]

That guy needs to keep his mouth shut for a change

[molten hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/wwe-freak-out-ahh-yell-open-mouth-gif-5639415

[outer sky]

hey @spring bough are you around?

[molten hedge]

I like him, but he’s deff a ret homer

Bro finds bugs faster than the Orkin man

[spring bough]

What’s up

[outer sky]

How do I gear for outlaw? I have a ton of honor. Gunna buy a set cuz why not

[spring bough]

I’d get up to around 20 haste then prob rest crit

[outer sky]

20% haste in pvp?

[spring bough]

Yeah wanna get that 0.8s global for when ADR is up

[potent pivot]

What happened to the guy saying sub got buffed

[outer sky]

Gotta be more specific

Like 10 people ive seen saying it got buffed or broke even

[potent pivot]

I mean in here just now

Kills me another rogue player thought it somehow got buffed from these patch notes

[hidden mirage]

its because of the pve buffs that nullified the 10% nerf in PvP.

or are we reading different patch notes again ?

[potent pivot]

They didn’t nullify it

[gilded gulch]

sub getting a pvp nerf was expected

the spec rn is

[potent pivot]

10% nerf to all ability damage. Do you know what a sub rogue damage breakdown looks like?

[outer sky]

Please point out which specific pve buffs nullify the 10% nerf to secret technique, lash macabre, and shadow clones? I.E., some of our biggest dam, especially in a burst

[potent pivot]

-10% secret technique damage
-10% macabre damage
-3% evis damage

Accounting the meager pve buffs, sub lost quite a bit of damage from its biggest damage sources. The buffs are to things that are very small portions.

[hidden mirage]

ok, my mistake i've forgot the clones and the rest.

[potent pivot]

-10% blades damage, clone damage, etc. these things aren’t insignificant compared to a shadowstrike buff

[spring bough]

Seasons over for rogue 🪦

[outer sky]

@potent pivot using your build in the pins for outlaw. Did you intend to not spec into short CD hook or short CD blind? On the outlaw tree

[potent pivot]

Ye it seems fair since they also nerfed a lot of other things

[potent pivot]

It’s prolly all kinds of fucked up

[gleaming sentinel]

[jaunty terrace]

will we be able to transfer honor Wednesday?

[spring bough]

12% gonna be decent ngl lol

[potent pivot]

Should be yea

[spring bough]

12% to this? GG mowing MFs down

[outer sky]

@spring bough Can you send me a talent build please

[spring bough]

Can drop KIR for 2/2 dispatcher. Can take verse over flickering steel. Airborne to gouge or even drop it lmao. Wep poison to crippling or the cc speed reduction one.

If u do KIR. 2 rolls and up automatically KIR and let it ride out

I’ve also been putting deadly pursuit into the flurry talent and it’s good into pet games. Press flurry and get instant full CP

[rough rock]

You actually use KiR?

[spring bough]

Yeah it’s good. That or 2/2 dispatcher within the same realm of dmg

[rough rock]

You just hope for jackpot?

[spring bough]

KIR 2 rolls and up

And let it ride out the entire duration

[rough rock]

Ah

[spring bough]

Can drop finding opportunity for sleight too

[outer sky]

So you really dont run short hook or short blind?

That just seems wrong

[spring bough]

Nah I mean we already got CDR on hook

You could drop deadly pursuit for short blind

[rough rock]

Yeah I dropped that talent a while ago

[spring bough]

Feel like we need extra stam tho

[rough rock]

I think most outlaws did

How are you liking deadly pursuit?

I haven’t tried that one yet

[spring bough]

I don’t really play it I move it around tbh

[outer sky]

Ok when do i press prep?

[spring bough]

Was just what I had saved

I usually prep when I can get a good CC going and when adrenaline and BTe are both on cooldown to get a good go

[grave basin]

im free

[outer sky]

Only 1 point in Ace?

Oh yeah

[spring bough]

Yeah. Still need to build after it resets

[outer sky]

I see why

[spring bough]

And don’t wanna over cap combo points

[rough rock]

The fun part is trying to hit 20 zero in procs

I just send it at 10 lmao

[spring bough]

Finishers are dispatch on 5 or above if BTE on cooldown. BTE only finish on 6 or 7 cp nothing lower

[spring bough]

I just send it whenever regardless of stacks lol

[outer sky]

So this is basically the same shit as before.

ADR on CD

[spring bough]

Pretty much

[outer sky]

Bte on CD

KS on CD

[spring bough]

Reroll on 1 buff, 2,3,4 buffs let the buff run out before rerolling

[outer sky]

Blade Rush i assume is a mobility CD?

[spring bough]

Blade rush on cooldown

Energy

No KS with fatebound don’t run it

Dps loss lmao

[rough rock]

Aura gain though

[spring bough]

KS still Garbo for fate lol

[outer sky]

Yeah im definitely just gunna use it for mobility

[spring bough]

It’s on CDR it’s up a ton

[outer sky]

Do you roll in stealth before you open?

[spring bough]

Does big dam too

Yeah I do

[outer sky]

Lol

[spring bough]

Next roll buffed with loaded dice

But you may get lucky w first roll most of time it’s one buff tho 😂

[spring bough]

Big dam for outlaw lmao

[outer sky]

Nah im just so fried im texting in discord on my phone but I just replied to you in /s chat in game

[rough rock]

Please let us know how your game goes

[outer sky]

Im gunna need a few warm-up games

[spring bough]

“Guys outlaws fucking trash how you play this”

[outer sky]

Haven't touched this spec once since DF

[spring bough]

Wait till you find out how little control you have without cheap spam

😂

[outer sky]

Ive played assa some

[spring bough]

Just fucking run around and brawl on someone

[rough rock]

Lmao I barely started actually maining it in prepatch

[spring bough]

Just mash and hope you outlast 😂

[unkempt seal]

What addons post-WA can assist with telegraphing when enemies have buffs on or CDs off or whatever

in the craziness of everything I cannot tell when bubbles or evansions exist

[vocal surge]

Read text from attacks or pay attention to models

[outer sky]

Ok holy shit

what are you guys using to track your RTB buffs

the base UI is NOT working for that

[vocal surge]

Base UI

🫡

There goes my Jackpot on my next fight sadly

[spring bough]

Base UI and put it on buff bar

1 dice on icon is one roll. 2 is two. Three is three. Yellow omega is jackpot

[outer sky]

thats going to take some getting used to

[vocal surge]

Oh no

[outer sky]

@spring bough Kinda feels like you should prep ASAP after pressing ADR and BtE

to get the most possible CDR and also get prep on CD as fast as you can

[spring bough]

Probably only ever gonna use it once in a game

Usually hit it within the first minute or so tbh

Guys can we swap to outlaw after the next buff pass so we don’t get nerfed pls 😭

[outer sky]

They need to make prep work on cloak and evasion

[spring bough]

Or just give us CDR back on feint and evasion

[outer sky]

And make that affect cloak too

And dont nerf it in pvp

[spring bough]

Cloak was on CDR years ago if I remember right. If they ever did that forums would hate us

[outer sky]

Already do so what

[stoic spruce]

They fix outlaw yet?

[outer sky]

No its garbage

its weird because it FEELS like I'm doing a lot of damage

but I'm not

[spring bough]

Wait till we do 12% more on Tuesday

Real numbers then

[outer sky]

HOLY FUCK OKAY SOMEBODY JUST ROP'D ME MID HOOK

ABSOLUTELY THE FUCK NOT

[spring bough]

That’s why u got 3 more charges

[outer sky]

I set audio queues for my CDs

and so

every time I prep

its like a fucking orchestra

[rough rock]

Base ui duration bar

[outer sky]

Its fine I set it up to play a sound when my buffs fall off

[rough rock]

And honestly the new bones is way better than having to manually read each fucking buff like it was before

[molten hedge]

If u hook far enough you can drive by cc them mid hook. I’m sure u have plenty of time now

[outer sky]

Yeah I can stop and have a cup of coffee with them on the way with how long it takes

[molten hedge]

Is it really that bad, or you just spoilt rotten by step, the best mobility in the game @outer sky

[safe pelican]

What’s the best spec after the tuning ? How we opening the season ??

1.???
2.???
3.???

[spring bough]

Demon hunter

[molten hedge]

1. Sub
2. Tle
3. Ty

[potent pivot]

Think the devourer buffs are enough?

[spring bough]

Devourer or havoc gonna be rocking

[potent pivot]

Everyone seems to think their damage is too telegraphed and easy to stop

[spring bough]

Can make consumption mostly instant cast to avoid interrupts

Getting off collapsing another story on something like locks tho 😭

[potent pivot]

What about stars

Yeah

[spring bough]

Some you can pop a bunch

With locks fearing tho it’s hard gotta get away from them

[potent pivot]

I haven’t played it at max level or gear yet so idk how it feels once you have more haste etc

[spring bough]

If you can get a star into eradicate into consume back into void ray

Someone’s prob dying

If you cant get into demon and get caught. GG

[potent pivot]

Feels like it needs 1 more button

[spring bough]

Havoc reaver should be just about the same dmg now with buffs as Devourer

Prob gonna end up playing that more

Blade dance resetting its CD and hitting it back to back feels good and it’s gonna get buffed? Like damn lol

[outer sky]

If i was an admin id pin what im about to write.

Unless assa or outlaw are given more CC or sub has its CC gutted, then the answer to this question will ALWAYS be sub. This season. Next season, next expansion, for all time. The only way for that to not be true is if either assa or outlaw gets OBSCENELY overtuned damage. And in that case it'll be nerfed shortly after.

[jaunty osprey]

@potent pivot

deathstalker mark

can be reapplied

just tested with a buddy, had them bubble after i applied it

and then was able to reapply

[spring bough]

Sub saved? 🤯

[potent pivot]

in what context

A duel?

[jaunty osprey]

yes

[potent pivot]

Yeah it’s been that way

Doesn’t work that way in instances

[jaunty osprey]

ah

let me try in a skirm then

[outer sky]

@jaunty osprey you see they made the 4% assa nerf into a buff?

[potent pivot]

Ye he saw

He’s the one that found it

[jaunty osprey]

i mentioned it

like right away

lol*

[outer sky]

Im gunna laugh hysterically if it goes live as a nerf and the update is a typo

[hybrid sapphire]

Dark horse assa inc

[molten hedge]

If DS was useable that’d be like a buff in itself lmao

Jfc

[ocean thunder]

do we keep any 2set galactic for the vers bonus?

[spring bough]

That only works in world PvP not in rated

[jaunty osprey]

assa burst isnt bad at all

hate that they're nerfing implacable

only thing keeping assa viable atm

[rough rock]

Why is supa one of the only people that actually has a brain when it comes to doing reviews on the tuning

Like 99% of Venrukis video was “I have no idea what that is but cool”

[lime oar]

that was kinda wild lmao

[jaunty osprey]

@potent pivot

im telling u

it's fixed

[potent pivot]

All I said was that it was never broken in the open world

I’ll look into it tho

Even if it is fixed I don’t think it’s better ngl

Like trickster can be annoying to use but it’s quite far ahead in all cases

[jaunty osprey]

well

for Assa

it's def better than Fatebound

[potent pivot]

Maybe

Even pve has fatebound ahead of it for everything in pve afaik

[jaunty osprey]

not according to wowhead

[vocal surge]

Gut Warlocks

[jaunty osprey]

jk it changed

the m+ build was deathstalker a few days ago

but also, im not playing zoldycks

im playing sudden demise

bleed playstyle seems to be good

[analog tapir]

are u doing beta ? or is that how it is before the nerf is coming ?

[jaunty osprey]

we arent getting nerfed

we're getting buffed

4%

[analog tapir]

but the impacble

thingi

our apex talrnts

[jaunty osprey]

oh, yeah it's how it is before nerf

but it will still be good

the way you play it is

rot everyone

when someone dips, stun em press kingsbane into envenom

play symbolic

so your envenom right after KB hits harder

makes it so your kingsbane gives you 6 CPs

so kidney -> kingsbane -> envenom

[rough rock]

Woah woah I met a afflock in prepatch when I was learning outlaw and we both agreed the match needs to last 20 minutes or we die instantly and we dragged it out as long as we could and won 😭

[molten hedge]

Ohh fr? Interesting. Nahj was saying it’s better but maybe it changed this ssn

[analog tapir]

send the code for ur talents! 😄

[vocal surge]

When we fightin' btw?

[jaunty osprey]

CMQAByFP3pExAEG41/8+e6b8fPzMjZbmBAAAAAwsMjZbGAAAAAQLLjZwMjxMzMzyMLzMYmZmBzYGGDD2mZbswYGzSjZZbYy2wwyMW2mZwMzgB

[rough rock]

I won’t be back till the 21st :(

[jaunty osprey]

can swap tricks out for blackjack

[vocal surge]

F

[rough rock]

You will be the deciding factor on if I stick outlaw or go sub

Better see some clips

Grapple hook BTE’s

[ocean thunder]

what stats would you go as assa?

To be honest, deathstalker looks tailored for instanced pvp assa - if it works - it's all about the 2 x Envenoms

curious about the bleeds though, they dont seem to be hitting that hard or?

[analog tapir]

mate play what you think is fun to play..if u play sub and u dont like it ur aint gonna play good

[potent pivot]

Whispyr says not fixed

I will test anyway

[molten hedge]

It sure looks like it was in that video

Weird

[potent pivot]

Maybe they pulled a pvp specific fix for it it if their ass

[potent pivot]

It was an inconsistent bug

It was triggered/not triggered by the most random shit

[jaunty osprey]

lmao

[potent pivot]

But on beta/live you could play entire matches and never be able to reapply for entire matches

[jaunty osprey]

supercharger

kingsbane

envenom

[potent pivot]

Seems like an undergeared mage no?

[jaunty osprey]

oh

i didnt even look

at his hp

[potent pivot]

Just don’t go spreading hopium yet

Let’s make sure first

[indigo oxide]

is there a pvp oriented rogue, that makes educational videos?

[snow harness]

yo guys

if i dis-enchanted my renown gear cause i didnt want to pve, but now i want that gear back

is there anyway?

since it was from a quest lol

[jaunty osprey]

gonna queue with montage and kamahlen right now

[molten hedge]

Shadenox did make a lot of stuff that was educational, but he hasn’t posted in a while

[jaunty osprey]

maybe i'll stream it and see

[potent pivot]

Not really no, not that are worth watching. Trimaz made a vid last expansion

[jaunty osprey]

if i can make assa work

[molten hedge]

Ou I wanna watch if you do

[potent pivot]

Shade quit

[molten hedge]

Rip

[jaunty osprey]

cant link, but see if u can find it

we're playing now

[molten hedge]

His videos still have a lot of good concepts though that newer rogues can learn from

[molten hedge]

Think i follow you let me see

[indigo oxide]

is there anzthing i can watch to get a grasp on pvp tho? general and rogue specific?

[potent pivot]

Nahj’s twitch streams

[molten hedge]

Sorry

🙂

[indigo oxide]

damn unfort

ill check shadenox then

[potent pivot]

His stuff is out of date, he quit wow

[indigo oxide]

even concept whise? how am i supposed to learn

[pastel burrow]

head first into the wall (bgs/arenas)

and then watch nahj or something

[molten hedge]

CanaryClaw also does educational stuff

[potent pivot]

A lot of things change often, most learn from streams and actual practice

[potent pivot]

Are they decent?

[molten hedge]

I find many streamers aren’t good at articulating what they’re doing. So the only way you learn from them is copying what they do

[indigo oxide]

yeah im a noob tho - i was hoping to get like the basics and then go practice

[potent pivot]

Swear most YT shit I see is terrible if it isn’t from someone that actually plays at a decent level

[potent pivot]

Oh

Check out skillcapped on YT ig

[indigo oxide]

atleast that was the idea

[potent pivot]

They cover a lot of the really basic stuff

Thought u meant like rogue specific

A lot of pvp is knowing what every class can do tho so skillcapped is ok ig

[indigo oxide]

i was hoping on some rogue stuff ngl

[potent pivot]

Youtube wise that is a dead genre

[molten hedge]

He got glad last ssn so not bad. But he has similar structure to vids like shade did with step by step on why he’s doing what he’s doing kinda thang

[indigo oxide]

well shit

[molten hedge]

Just thought that would be helpful for mieux if he has no idea

[jaunty osprey]

assa dev

seems fun

[potent pivot]

What’s wrong with streams

[analog tapir]

how much damage do the orc racial actually do ?

[indigo oxide]

i think im to new to fully grasp what hes saying, dont want to annoy him with the most basic question there is

[molten hedge]

Zicore has said 3.6% iirc

[potent pivot]

It’s around +3% dps

[potent pivot]

I don’t know if that’s correct

[ocean thunder]

wtf is going on i am playing healer on BGs and i am knocked back and in like ping pong

[potent pivot]

Might want to start by reading wowhead guides then

And your abilities/talents etc

[indigo oxide]

oh i did mean pvp pvp specific, opener, cc chains etc - i can play sub very good pve wise

[potent pivot]

You don’t need shit like that for pvp anymore

[indigo oxide]

oh did it lose on skill or

[potent pivot]

It’s like pve u just follow priority

Just don’t gap stuns

[indigo oxide]

i tought theres much theory to it

[potent pivot]

No

Almost all rotational rules are exactly the same as pve

[indigo oxide]

somenting like kidney here, cheapshot then

talents etc

[outer sky]

Thats too situational

[potent pivot]

All of that is extremely situational yeah

Talents are in the pins

[indigo oxide]

well it is what it is

[outer sky]

Why does it feel like so many people come in here asking for advice and then get mad when we give them the advice lol

[indigo oxide]

im not mad lmao

[molten hedge]

i hate when ppl say its situational

i think its better to give them some situations

[indigo oxide]

just a general idea

[molten hedge]

like cant we say cc the healer and do dam

[outer sky]

You cant. There's too many

[molten hedge]

or cc the healer when someones low

lol

you can say that

[potent pivot]

I don’t think they’re mad lol

[outer sky]

What if the healer is OOM and the kill target has a defensive coming back up soon?

[molten hedge]

GOOD! then say that

lol

[potent pivot]

They just want to learn but pvp doesn’t have good laid out guides like that

[molten hedge]

i understand but we can give them some situations that are more common instead of figure it out be on ur way i think

[potent pivot]

The community isn’t big enough and too much changes every season

[molten hedge]

yes but at the end of the day the game still has a lot of the same concepts it has always had

especially for lower skilled ppl

[potent pivot]

If someone asks about a specific situation, sure. But a full run down of everything to do ever? Cmon be realistic

[molten hedge]

no for sure not that bro

im just saying if someone is trying to get 1800 or duelist theres some generic stuff that would help them

[indigo oxide]

thats fine tho to know ill then just go and try

[ocean thunder]

Curious, you say that sub will be better than assa unless assa has much more dmg - wasnt that the case last season? or assa was not better

[rough rock]

Sub was noodle man

[ocean thunder]

yeah ok, i know, when sub was not that low dps they could kill me on my assa so easily

[outer sky]

Last season every rogue spec could spam cheap shot. Now only sub can multi stun

[potent pivot]

If you have questions you’re free to ask anything, it’s just hard to layout a bunch of stuff generically

Not trying to say “go figure it all out on your own”

[indigo oxide]

no worries ill def come back with stuff as i learn

[outer sky]

If you need very general advice then IMO the best thing to do is record some games and post them. I can do vod reviews. @molten hedge can attest I'm VERY thorough

[molten hedge]

when i started wow df s4, everyone kept telling me win the game

and i got so tilted lol

[indigo oxide]

thats so nice

[rough rock]

make sure you buy pikaboo merch for instant wins

[indigo oxide]

i was hoping he had somenthing and hes surely a super nice guy but he talks so much stuff

[potent pivot]

Assa had more cc then

[molten hedge]

nahj was a good one. he will try to answer your questions and definitely DOESNT talk to much lol

[indigo oxide]

pika talks so much

[molten hedge]

thats his thin

thing

[spring bough]

Pika a comedian tho

[molten hedge]

hes an entertainer mostly

[rough rock]

lmao yeah hes more into entertaining now but hes super fun to watch

Even his old AWC gameplay is like watching a 12 year old on meth playing rogue

[molten hedge]

its a shame @indigo oxide wont get gatekept by pika in 2s

thats the intro to pvp\

[spring bough]

Bro is playing feral now too 😭

[molten hedge]

i liked feral when i tried it yday

[indigo oxide]

wait what

[spring bough]

The better rogue rn 😂

[rough rock]

he played sin yesterday and won hella games

[spring bough]

And he was sub last night with 0 apex

[rough rock]

i saw haha

he doesnt use any ui shit either just straight sub rogue robot brain

[outer sky]

A blizzcon runner up played skirms in pre season as sin and won a lot of games? Well I guess the spec is good afterall

[molten hedge]

pika is famous for playing 2s with viewers and being around 2k CR

[rough rock]

Never said that, hes just one of the best rogues still to this day

[molten hedge]

and absolutely shitting on ppl lol

and doing 1v2s

[indigo oxide]

i dont kniw what that means

[dark moon]

Better nerf the spec, kekw

[gleaming sentinel]

https://klipy.com/gifs/rock-rock-rock-2

[outer sky]

He's absolutely one of the best. I'd argue in the top 3

Youngest player to ever earn an r1 title

[rough rock]

I dont really think he farms low people

[molten hedge]

the 2v2 bracket

[ocean thunder]

i have played this new BG 3-4 times i donthavea clue what to do 😄

[spring bough]

Bro bragging about the 1v2 right now when he just ran out to heal

[rough rock]

unless im wrong

[molten hedge]

he play with viewers from his stream

[rough rock]

you talking about the paladin fight?

@outer sky you should watch that fight lol

[spring bough]

Just now. He was fighting two dudes in slayers rise runs out to heal they fight each other and he ran back to finish them lol

[outer sky]

if someone posts it I'll watch it