pvp

[snow harness]

nope

[molten hedge]

Is a dragon oppressing roar ur kidney

[snow harness]

was just me

maybe i was trippin

so cheap shot is max 4 sec, and kidney 5?

in pvp

[potent pivot]

ya

[snow harness]

r u sure kidney isnt atleast 6?

[potent pivot]

bruh

[snow harness]

xd

[potent pivot]

its been 5sec for quite a while now

[snow harness]

our rogue combo is a bit different now right?

since no triple cheap

i like to open with shadow strike > kidney, followed by my combo

[potent pivot]

there are no triple CCs in the game

[snow harness]

wym?

triple dr?

[potent pivot]

there is no 3rd DR anymore

[snow harness]

really?

so you can only poly someone twice etc?

no more triple poly

[potent pivot]

yes

[snow harness]

interesting

i kinda like that tho

[graceful ravine]

do u guys ever just like yolo stun in bgs and hope theyre not on DR

rolling the dice

[snow harness]

yep

i just wish there was a way to split these up on diff locations of ur screen

[potent pivot]

pretty sure you can with addons

[snow harness]

yea ill just keep it simple for now

only need to see my combo points, dance duration. + enemy dr's, everything else is just qol

and not neccisary

so dancing doesnt acually give us dmg buff anymore

and we have no symbols

and tea doesnt provide mastery anymore

[graceful ravine]

i like my UI with no action bars at all 😄

[snow harness]

so our only modifer is blades?

[potent pivot]

no

[snow harness]

so i turned this on, but i dont actually see them

[potent pivot]

if you go to your talent window and search Dance you will find all the talents that interact with Dance

symbols has basically just been baked into dance

[potent pivot]

what are you expecting to see exactly

external defensives means defensives cast on you by other people

[snow harness]

my cloak/evas etc

oooh

[potent pivot]

those aren't externals

[snow harness]

i wont even enable that then

idc about that

like a bop / etc

[potent pivot]

dance has a lot of shit

[potent pivot]

?

[snow harness]

i typed i ndance and that all it showed me

but im reading the talents indivudually and ur right, it does alot

wait so upon reading this

we actually want to backsstab now

to get the 10% buff

[potent pivot]

what

nowhere does it say backstab will give you a buff

[snow harness]

find weakness

[potent pivot]

that does not give you a buff

[snow harness]

find weaknes increases the dmg of your finishing moves by 10%

[potent pivot]

"backstab does 10% increased damage while FW is active"

[graceful ravine]

lmao this bg is cooked

[potent pivot]

thats not backstab

thats FW

[snow harness]

backstab activates fw tho

or is there another way?

[graceful ravine]

FW activates by stealth abilities, SS and CS

[snow harness]

oo

[graceful ravine]

and its a buff on YOU

instead of a debuff on them

thank god

[snow harness]

wait, wtf is a shadow clone lol

we a pet class now?

[potent pivot]

a lot of our damage is clones now

[snow harness]

whaaat

how do we activate our clone

[potent pivot]

its not a pet

[snow harness]

bro i love midnight

this is cooked

how do we activate shadow clone

is it random or garuntee?

[potent pivot]

you are killin me smalls

[gleaming pawn]

you have the patience of a saint, NoTrickz

[potent pivot]

you just posted the talent that does clone damge

umbral edge

[snow harness]

ahh, this it

[potent pivot]

and our first apex talent also adds clone damage to most abilities

[snow harness]

was the one above it

[potent pivot]

not even this one no

we aren't even really running WM rn

[potent pivot]

i really don't

[snow harness]

yes that is it

i was wondering how do we activate shadow clone

and its weaponmaster. 20% chance

[potent pivot]

because i already lost it 20 minutes ago

[gleaming pawn]

[potent pivot]

are you trolling?

[snow harness]

the other talent i posted just showed increased damage

lol

but i was asking how do we activate it

?

[potent pivot]

read the rest of it

holy shit

[snow harness]

oooh

cheap shot / kidney garuntee

okay okay

but weaponmaster is sstill another way to activaite it

just at a 20% chance

[potent pivot]

doesn't really matter

[snow harness]

kinda does

[potent pivot]

no

[snow harness]

why wouldnt it

[potent pivot]

weaponmaster isn't very good

hence why we aren't running it rn

the apex talent also procs clones

[snow harness]

when it sais "Damagaing attacks that expend shadow techniques to generate combo points" what does that all include

just shadow strike ?

ss / bs

or others

[gleaming pawn]

you say this but the pinned Sub build is running WM

[snow harness]

yea its just extra procs

idk what you'd swap it with

sub is legit a pet class now.

😄

dance being a 20 sec recharge is insane to

[potent pivot]

oops, fixing

[snow harness]

i havnt looked into assa any yet, hows it lookin for pvp?

sub looks really dominant ngl

[potent pivot]

weaponmaster? warning signs

[snow harness]

so with trickster, theres nothing really to keep an eye out for right? like no darknest night line up or anything

isnt this better then warning signs

[outer sky]

No

[snow harness]

i wonder if theres a world where you run goomblade / dark brew with

for a big goomblade at the end of ur dance

prob not worth tho

[graceful ravine]

are ppl playing 4/4 dark arts?

[potent pivot]

pretty positive we will yeah

[snow harness]

thats our tier i assume?

[graceful ravine]

i personally hate it

[potent pivot]

no

[graceful ravine]

another thing to track

[potent pivot]

apex talents

[graceful ravine]

and it can proc at the most useless time

[snow harness]

isnt apex no options to chose anything?

[potent pivot]

it feeds into the first apex talent

[graceful ravine]

wym feed

[potent pivot]

you can technically forego putting points in them for more spec tree talents, but in 90% of cases it is not worth doing that

[graceful ravine]

im referring specifically for the 4th point

[potent pivot]

each apex node is worth like ~5% dps

[potent pivot]

i know

[snow harness]

ahh i gotcha

btw.

whoever said no to planned exec

i think ur kinda trolling

[potent pivot]

by expending them to generate up to your max it feeds into the first one

[snow harness]

if ur running finality, planned ex is good

[potent pivot]

they are not trolling

we run warning signs

its very strong

[snow harness]

more pet procs?

[potent pivot]

what

[snow harness]

were a pet class dawg.

[graceful ravine]

Imagine this...

CS - > ST -> SS -> Evis - > (you need to restun here), but OPS your dark art just procced and youre wasting CP)

[snow harness]

and atk speed gives us more pet procs

our clone dmg

right?

[potent pivot]

i'm borderline ready to mute you because i think you're only here to troll

[snow harness]

im just having fun, but you know what i mean

atk speed gives more chance to proc your shadow clone dmg

and thats the reasoning behind running it right?

[potent pivot]

attack speed gives more shadow technique procs

no

shadow tech procs and auto attack damage

[snow harness]

ahh, mb i see

is our auto attack dmg good?

on the break down

like noticable compared to our ability dmg

[potent pivot]

more noticeable than the past 2 expansions ye

[snow harness]

sweet

[graceful ravine]

I see what you mean now

[snow harness]

well, no matter what, whatever talent build nahj is running will be the best

[outer sky]

The extra attack speed also helps with energy regen during dance thanks to Shadowcraft

[snow harness]

i trust nahj's rogue judgement over all

[potent pivot]

ye i really think not running apex talents for any spec in the game is trolling unless they are just bugged or some shit ngl

[snow harness]

i do agree that warning signs is good , and i have no data to compare. but 40% dmg on crits when you add 10% on the finality seems like a nice punch

especially when you got full mastery everything , its big dam

[potent pivot]

we aren't even playing full mastery anymore

[snow harness]

fr?

tf

[potent pivot]

we play haste now

[snow harness]

full haste no mastery?

[potent pivot]

haste/mast

[snow harness]

is that even good

[potent pivot]

lol

[snow harness]

i think full mastery with planned exec is better, especially with rmp comp

i could be wrong, but having that big damage in your stun go's is better then pve pad damage

[potent pivot]

you'd be wrong ye

[snow harness]

we'll see what nahj plays

[outer sky]

You dont need much haste to at least get an extra global

[potent pivot]

i'm telling you what he plays

[outer sky]

I think these people stacking full haste/vers are window lickers though

[snow harness]

how do you know nahj is playing with haste? lol

im not doubting having haste is good, for more dance uptime / overall damage, but what im saying is that pad / pve damage wont matter much especially at higher ratings. having damage inside your go / stun windows is whats important, especially with rmp etc

[potent pivot]

its not about pad/pve damage

[snow harness]

but thats obvious. so im not sure if ur trolling by disregarding an obvious point

[outer sky]

This is Kalvish's argument too but he seems to have the minority opinion

[molten hedge]

Nahj streams all the time bro

[snow harness]

he's been busy with work actually, i dont think hes even streamed any in EA or anything?

[potent pivot]

he is also just a person, like all of us

[snow harness]

if he was doing haste on the beta i missed it

[potent pivot]

not hard to talk to him

[potent pivot]

guess you missed it then

[molten hedge]

Yeah I just messaged him earlier

[snow harness]

i havnt beenw atching anything, im legit reading rogue new talents for the first time just now

[molten hedge]

Bc I did his lag optimization settings and my pc runs a lot better

[snow harness]

thats why i come off as if im trolling but im not lol

i havnt played since tww season 2

[snow harness]

what are his lag optimizations?

ive been kinda laggin i could use that lol

[molten hedge]

The way u described playing sub earlier reminded me of baker ice playing fdk sub lmaoo

[snow harness]

what , big damage in burst windows?

[molten hedge]

Just go to his server and go to lag optimization channel

[snow harness]

bro its all about that big dam

ima run dark brew / planned exec / darkest night stars aline one shot build with full mastery

sorry finality* not dark brew

[potent pivot]

you wanna know the problem with that mindset

[molten hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/ravil27-gif-24028314

[potent pivot]

evis is a wet noodle now

[snow harness]

i can see that

rogue pumps its strong buti havnt actually read the breakdow

i assume its from our pet dmg

[potent pivot]

strike does more than evis

[snow harness]

coupled with trickster stuff

wait ur right

wtf LOL

[potent pivot]

ya

and sec tech still does big dam when u run some haste

[snow harness]

yea tech pumps

tech actually hits

its a fun button to press

and you have one for every stun dr lol

[untold remnant]

So full haste/vers sub rogue is the play?

[potent pivot]

no

[snow harness]

trickz,

[potent pivot]

no one has ever said that

[snow harness]

keep in mind

full mastery with tech

and finality

• planned ex

is gonna cook in those stun windows

and its a funner playstyle then just having high pve dmg

[potent pivot]

i just don't see anyone running that

[snow harness]

nahj will run it

[potent pivot]

i don't think so

[snow harness]

he dont even like playing trickster due to the pve thing

secret tech 1 shots will be the meta, big fukin dam with full mastery / on use trinket / finality / planned exec

u can one shot in 1 cheap shot prob, if they dont nerf anything

[potent pivot]

we're running insig

[snow harness]

"were"

[outer sky]

You know Finality doesnt buff secret tech right?

[potent pivot]

[snow harness]

-.-

LOL

ok there geos my plan

but 10% planned exec

yea so evis is kinda like a useless spender

its just tech

is it even worth pressing evis?

[molten hedge]

Is this how we sounded @outer sky

[snow harness]

or just spam SS with full combo? LOL

[potent pivot]

yes

[molten hedge]

I’ve got enough rogues to try both builds

[snow harness]

but SS does more then a 7 pt evis

[molten hedge]

With diff stats just to test

[snow harness]

or is there modifiers im missing somewher

that makes evis worth pressing

[molten hedge]

Evis is ur only spender besides SS

Unless ur pressing black powder 😂

[potent pivot]

i really did not sign up to explain the entire spec today

[snow harness]

shadow strike, not secret tech @molten hedge

[molten hedge]

Yeah that’s what I meant

[snow harness]

sorry notrickz, uve been helpful with the ui and stuff, i appreciate u bro

im just havin fun, i dont mean to stress u

[outer sky]

yep lol

[molten hedge]

I still wanna try mastery with the build Kalvish mentioned

[snow harness]

last question i would like u to answer, is the math and reasoning behind wanting to press a 7 point evis over shadowstrike

[molten hedge]

But will also do the heavier haste build on another rog

[snow harness]

im looking at my Shadow strike and it does 4995 dmg, my evis does 3384

but im only lvl 84 with bad gear

[potent pivot]

it does more damage than regular strikes

like from shadowed finishers

[outer sky]

Also guys don't forget blizzard already has 2 tuning passes scheduled

[potent pivot]

there's also more interactions like apex shit etc

[outer sky]

if they nerf stike or buff evisc everything changes

[potent pivot]

i wouldn't say everything

[snow harness]

chads will run full mast / with on use still

like kalvish / nahj etc, its just a fact

[potent pivot]

nah

blitz players will

actual chads won't

[snow harness]

na m8, blitz will be the ones running around with full haste/insignia pve'ing everything

[potent pivot]

you're a lost cause

[outer sky]

Well it would change enough to cause us to reevaluate

[snow harness]

having dmg for burst windows is a common concept and a fun way to play, its why rmp is so strong, maybe the trade off isnt worth it but having big damage for your go is just a fun way to play

i like seeing those big finishers

[outer sky]

the point is you wont be seeing "those big finishers" no matter how you gear

[snow harness]

secret tech pumps still

[outer sky]

if that was a real possibility we would maybe reconsider

[snow harness]

and you have a secret tech for every stun dr window

[outer sky]

you cant gear just for 1 button to do damage unless that one butter is GIGA overtuned like pre-nerf surv hunter takedown or The Hunt for DHs when it first came out

Sectec does good damage but its not enough to justify a full mastery stack just for it

[snow harness]

im not 90 yet and i havnt played the full spec yet, i agree that the haste one is more damage overall, but the whole point of sub is to do damage within your stun windows, and with having a secret tech every stun dr maximizing your dmg within that stun window is both fun and good gameplay

[outer sky]

Your premise here can be challenged

This was true up until this xpac

[snow harness]

your saying that with haste build you can do equal or more damage within a stun window

[potent pivot]

even kalvish has already accepted it

nahj did a long time ago

jussayin

[outer sky]

No. Im saying its entirely possible now that the optimal way to play sub will not be to think in "goes", and to just play it like a warrior

[outer sky]

Did Kalvish get on board with more than just 1 extra dance global worth of haste?

[snow harness]

you can yea im not denying you cant do that, its just not as fun

[potent pivot]

you should probably try it before you go having these opinions of it

[potent pivot]

idts but i have a feeling he will

[snow harness]

like in rogue / mage 2s for example, would having that big go i simply better then warrior pve zuzg zug

i have tried it

[outer sky]

I agree. But when people come in here asking for advice, the advice we give them is oriented towards "what will win them the most games" not "what is the most fun" because thats subjective

[snow harness]

ive played both playstyles

it also depends what rating your playing at, what comp etc, if your playing rmp, the idea is to cross cc and do go's with your stun dr, now it is possible that sub is just beyond broken and none of that matters now and u can just run in and kill everything and nothing matters lol

[outer sky]

You understand that even if you get enough haste for 2 extra dance globals, your secret tech goes are still scary, right?

I feel like youre thinking of this in a way thats too binary

Its not a switch we flip between burst damage and overall damage

Its a dial

We're just turning it slightly away from burst and more towards overall

But you still have burst

[snow harness]

a dance window is different then a stun dr window though keep in mind

[outer sky]

Am I wasting my time?

[snow harness]

you have 2 extra globals in your dance window with extra haste sure, but their out of the stun by then, pressing defensives / healing / kiting etc

[outer sky]

Yeah and thats a defensive they wont have next time.

[snow harness]

im not denying that you guys are right and haste is just better, im just saying the point yeno

[outer sky]

Another benefit to more haste

We havent talked about

Are extra globals to cheap shot and sap

[potent pivot]

more time to get off cross CC, etc

[outer sky]

To extend CC

[outer sky]

Jinx

[potent pivot]

it also shortens sec tech's CD

[snow harness]

how so

[outer sky]

It just does

[potent pivot]

wdym how so

[outer sky]

They made its CD reduce with haste

This xpac

Thats just how its designed

[potent pivot]

oh i guess it doesn't say anything about that in game does it

[snow harness]

i dont understand the hostility lol im just asking questions ,i havent played beta and im only lvl 84 on rog still

[outer sky]

Hes just like that you get used to it

[snow harness]

but yea, how does having more haste lower the cd of secret tech being a 21 base cooldown?

[potent pivot]

no i'm serious, it doesn't say anything about it in game

[outer sky]

Its not hostility

[potent pivot]

i'm laughing at blizzard not you

lol

[snow harness]

"Wdym how so" i read that in a tone bro

[potent pivot]

oh

[snow harness]

😔

but naw fr how does haste lower secret tech cd

also. does it matter? stun dr window is 20 seconds, secret tech is 21

[potent pivot]

its just a base thing haste does now

[snow harness]

haste lowers cd's?

[potent pivot]

only sec tech

[outer sky]

Just sectec

[snow harness]

do other classe shave that?

[outer sky]

Casters do

[potent pivot]

most casters ya

[snow harness]

interesting

[outer sky]

Their cast times shorten with haste

Thats why destro lock is always cracked the last season of every xpac

They get enough haste to spam bolts so fast

[wary thistle]

Pally did (dunno if still do)

[snow harness]

even with that though, secret tech is 20 second, and so is ur stun dr window so they line up perfectly already

[potent pivot]

kill targets can change

[snow harness]

thats true

and with cheap being 12 seconds, thats a good point

[potent pivot]

sec tech also has interactions

[outer sky]

And tier extends the duration of blades so with enough haste you can maybe get 2 sectecs in a single blades window

[potent pivot]

like with trickster

[snow harness]

is tehre any modifiers or bufs i should track

with trickster?

similiar to darkest night

or not really

[potent pivot]

there's a lot more to the spec now than solely stun windows

[potent pivot]

not really

[outer sky]

I track flawless form

[snow harness]

yea i was thinking flawless myself

[outer sky]

But idk if you have to

[potent pivot]

you just get faster coups because of sec techs

[outer sky]

I swear this could be a negative though

[potent pivot]

more unseen blades, etc

[outer sky]

Flawless Form is nice to track IMO because it helps me farm stacks before the go so I can send sectec with max stacks

[snow harness]

can you track unseen blade stacks? to know when your coup de grace is ready

[potent pivot]

you'll know when its ready

[outer sky]

You can but its probably easier to just add eviscerate to your cooldown manager display. The icon changes from eviscerate to coup de grace when its ready

[snow harness]

ooh sht

kk good to know

so lining up flawless form 5 stack with coup de grace

is like, ur stars aline moment

[outer sky]

Better to spend the stacks on sectec tbh

[snow harness]

even with coup de grac?

[potent pivot]

yes

[outer sky]

Yeah

[snow harness]

well, you can do both

[potent pivot]

i don't even track flawless

[snow harness]

wait nvm

[potent pivot]

coup->tech

[snow harness]

having a 5 stack flawless secret tech into a coup de grac window

is a fat damage go

[potent pivot]

you don't have to do that

coup gives 5 stacks

[snow harness]

coupled with on use / finality / planned exec and full mastery of course

[outer sky]

Also the only reason to even track coup tbh is because the GCD of coup is longer than normal so if you press it during a stun window you may gap your stun. So if you see you only have 1 global left before you need to restun and you have coup, you need to sit on that global and not press it, restun first. Because if you press coup in that situation you will gap your stun due to the longer GCD its on

[snow harness]

oo right

so just coup degrace into secret tech

so the idea, is stack up 5 flawless, then spend them on your coup de grace, get those 5 flawless back and send the other 5 on your secret tech

for maximum output in your stun

[outer sky]

That would be ideal but lining all of that up during a game and sending it when it matters is borderline unrealistic. Personally id just play for as many flawless stacks as possible to send with sectec and if the stars align during a go then so be it

[snow harness]

im gonna track it, and run around a pillar while i wait for dr's

jk

[outer sky]

The big problem is the flawless form stacks dont last very long

[snow harness]

but tbh, its a lot less tracking then all the darknest night stuf

you had like 6 things to track LOL

you dont need to it on your flawless stacks tho

you just farm a coup

thats all u need

cus once you coup you get 5 stacks back insta to send ur tech

so all ur doing is holding ur coup, but with SS doing as much dmg as it does, it doesnt rlly matter

your not losing much while waiting for drs but holding onto coup

by holding onto coup*

[outer sky]

I meant for your scenario of get 5 flawless stacks>coup>sectec

That would be hard to manage reliably

[snow harness]

wait, if you drop ur flawless tsacks coup goes away to?

[outer sky]

No

[snow harness]

you cant hold your coup?

oh ye, then it dont matter

all thatmatters is u have coup ready

[outer sky]

This is what im critiquing as unrealistic

[snow harness]

how so , whats the hard part

the only downside is, lets say you have a coup up, and ur waiting another 10 seconds for ur stun dr

you have to shadowstrike instead of coup, so ur just holding onto coup

[outer sky]

Getting 5 flawless form stacks at the same time you proc coup de grace and it happens during a window where it matters

[potent pivot]

gaining FF stacks isn't like deathstalker

[snow harness]

ahhh shit i misread my bad zicore

[potent pivot]

you aren't cycling through FF like you did deathstalkers marks

[snow harness]

i thought the 5 flawless was giving you coup, but its 4 unseed blade procs

so ye its a stsars align moment

you cant ssit on it

but i think saving coup for ur stun go with secret tech is still good

5 stack or not

[outer sky]

Yes but remember there's a downside to this

You basically lose a gcd during your stun if you press coup de grace during it

Because it has a longer gcd

[snow harness]

is it a whole gcd ?

i havnt tested the new rog combos tbh

[outer sky]

Its longer

Than a normal gcd

Because of the dumbass animation

Its the worst thing about the trickster tree

[snow harness]

i think with no triple dr it shouldnt matter to much, epecially if your kidneying

like if were talking 3s, cheap the off target and kidney the go target or w.e

[outer sky]

How much it matters depends on what's going on in the game

Im just saying be careful becasue you will lose a global during your stun lock to press coup de grace

And if you time it poorly you may even gap your stun

[snow harness]

true

i wonder if sub will get nerfed

it seems rlly good rn, im pumped to level him up

[outer sky]

Its very good but it doesnt strike me as massively overtuned. When I play into other sub rogues they dont seem particularly oppressive.

The only things that need a nerf right now are mistweaver monk, guardian druid, and ret paladin. And MAYBE demo lock

[snow harness]

u havnt ran into my finality full mastery on use yet thats why

[outer sky]

Everything else seems either fine or even undertuned

[snow harness]

ret paladin really that op?

guaridan is cooked yea

[outer sky]

You know finality is nerfed 50% in pvp right?

[snow harness]

like legit so dumb

[outer sky]

Yes

[snow harness]

so instead of 30% with 2 pts its 15% ?

[outer sky]

Yes

[snow harness]

still good tho

[outer sky]

Its okay

[snow harness]

only thing is tho

darknest night garunteed a crit

which made it good

[outer sky]

Would probably be better with deathstalker because deathstalker gives you an extra 20% crit damage

[snow harness]

i dont think there anything in trickster that can garuntee a crit finisher

maybe im wrong

yea that to ^

• darkest night

you had like one big fat evis lol

[outer sky]

But John just fyi

The build youre talking about

On use

Finality

Mastery stack

[snow harness]

i dont think finality is good with coup

[outer sky]

Is what i played all beta

[snow harness]

you need a garunteed crit

[outer sky]

And its still not that oppressive

The burst

[snow harness]

were u playing death stalker?

with that

[outer sky]

No. Theres 0 point. Deathstalker is bugged.

[snow harness]

ahh

[outer sky]

Its useless 90% of the game

[snow harness]

yea finality is only good with death stalker

with darknest night

[outer sky]

But

To be fair

Evisc doesnt hit very hard

Sectec does

Trickster buffs sectec

Deathstalker doesnt

[snow harness]

which talent in trickster is doing that

yea i think trickster is kinda op lowkey lol

with our pet shadow dmg

[outer sky]

Flawless form can be consumed by sectec to do up to 20% more damage and one of the trickster talents reduces the cooldown of sectec by 10%. I forgot what its called but its the 3rd row down on the left branch of the tree

[outer sky]

Yeah that

That is a very good talent

[snow harness]

secret tech is farming you flawless forms more to

[outer sky]

Mhmm

[potent pivot]

you can proc 2 coups in a single dance

[snow harness]

i kind of like how rupture pad is gone now to

[potent pivot]

[snow harness]

what i do miss tho

is those big reprimands from shadowlands

before they nerfed it

[outer sky]

Yeah that was a fun week

[snow harness]

with the conduit that buffed ur dmg of it lol

divine toll xd

fuk man season 1 shadowlands was a cinema

[outer sky]

This is still one shotting BTW

[snow harness]

i remember vanguards 100-0d a dude with divine toll in a warstomp LOL

yea i saw that

they brought the dmg back

love to see it man

i play ret so ill have to level him at some point

[outer sky]

Do not get me started on season 1 of shadowlands right @molten hedge ?

[snow harness]

i cobra shotted my way to glad in season 2

on bm hunt

how is bm hunter anyway in pvp atm?

[outer sky]

I mean you didnt even need a monitor to get glad in s2 sl

[snow harness]

hey man, its my first and only glad and im happy with that

i worked hard for that glad

i had a convoke feral

LOL

slands glad mounts are actually so dope tho

[outer sky]

Its decent. Largely because having AI do all your damage for you even while youre in CC and being unable to be kited can never really be "bad"

But its the weakest hunter spec right now

[snow harness]

even in pvp?

curious to see what ssds is able to do with it, im sure we get buffed tho

on the 17th

[outer sky]

Yes this is the pvp channel so everything i reference is in pvp unless otherwise stated

[snow harness]

word, im bm hunter main just need to farm the honor gear

im gonna lvl priest/rogue/ret

[outer sky]

Only the s1 glad mount looks good. The s2 one looks like a dog who's owner made play dress up, s3's looks like a period, and s4 just looks stupid

[lone jasper]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/character/us/tichondrius/nahj/

[snow harness]

i love watching ssds play bm hunter in 2s

[lone jasper]

How can i get warmonger set items now?

[snow harness]

void zone world pvp quests

[potent pivot]

told you he plays haste xd

[outer sky]

Better off just getting honor gear

[potent pivot]

its not real warmonger gear

its preseason wpvp gear

[lone jasper]

I couldnt get any there

[snow harness]

its random

[outer sky]

The right world quests have to be up

[snow harness]

yea im lookin at nahjs gear

i saw that insigia lol

[potent pivot]

not even worth getting compared to honor gear

[potent pivot]

yee

[lone jasper]

Can anyone link an armory for item lists i should buy

[snow harness]

what is his 2nd dagger here?

is that even a pvp wep

[potent pivot]

no

he was just doing world quests man

there is zero reason to target farm what he's using rn

[outer sky]

Just buy haste/vers and mastery/vers honor gear

[potent pivot]

just get honor gear

yep

[snow harness]

i know i was jw what that was, didnt think it was pvp wep

[lone jasper]

Ok thanks boiz

[snow harness]

maybe he just short on honor

[potent pivot]

i don't think he's been on enough to fully replace his stuff with honor gear

[lone jasper]

What about trinket? The haste one?

[outer sky]

Yep

Wait

They're both

Haste

As honor gear

[snow harness]

im gonna crank in 2s on my bm hunter

[outer sky]

Get the insignia

[potent pivot]

ye insig is higher uptime tho

[lone jasper]

https://tenor.com/view/hat-tip-hats-off-respect-boy-yankees-gif-17680220

[outer sky]

No youre not. Your AI pets are.

Idk why these zoo specs are even allowed in pvp tbh

[snow harness]

gonna put my pet on the enemy, and run behind a pillar

[outer sky]

Thats not "player vs player"

Thats "AI bots summoned by a player vs player"

[snow harness]

i might play unh dk / bm hunter to glad this season, sic the safari zoo on them

are u guys planning on running full haste, or some mastery?

[potent pivot]

Only some haste

[snow harness]

like for crafted jewlery, 2x haste/vers, and 1x vers/mast?

[outer sky]

Id be shocked if the meta was to run literally full haste

[potent pivot]

Like ~600 haste

[snow harness]

word

for neck/double ring crafts, 2x haste and 1x mast the play prob?

[potent pivot]

How you get the rating doesn’t matter

[outer sky]

The play is to get 587 haste

Thats the magic number

How you get it doesn't matter

[snow harness]

whats magical about 587

[potent pivot]

Slightly more is good

[lone jasper]

18% haste ?

[snow harness]

2 globals in a dance?

[outer sky]

Gets you the 2nd global

[potent pivot]

More breathing room

[snow harness]

so 586 is 1 global in a dance

[potent pivot]

No

[outer sky]

Yep

What?

[potent pivot]

2

[snow harness]

587 is 2

so 586 cant be

[potent pivot]

Oh, ya

[snow harness]

🥹

[potent pivot]

You want breathing room though

[snow harness]

true

[potent pivot]

Especially because of coup

[outer sky]

Fucking coup

[snow harness]

yea i assume thats not including coup

[outer sky]

Like could they just fix that

[potent pivot]

It wouldn’t matter

[outer sky]

I mean come on

Its so annoying

[potent pivot]

You’d still want breathing room

[outer sky]

I mean for a lot of reasons

[potent pivot]

Like 587 makes dance 7.2sec long

[outer sky]

Not just that

[potent pivot]

It’s not easy to always hit that 8th global

[snow harness]

i assume thats like perfect globals

[outer sky]

Ye

[snow harness]

to get 8

[potent pivot]

Ya

[snow harness]

so having 600 makes u more comfy

or w.e

[potent pivot]

That’s why I say ~600

[snow harness]

there is no modifierss that garuntee a crit finisher in trickster right

[potent pivot]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/226359213427916800/1477407208752025863/image.png?ex=69a4a62f&is=69a354af&hm=130f09f11f46e727532bb585dbdb326fd3dd358660fcc3ebdef5eb351b6c87e1&

No

There isn’t

[snow harness]

planned exec and finallity lose alot of value then

ill just wait patiently for the pshero gloomblade/goremaw tech to arise with ziqo on frost owning the eu ladder

[outer sky]

That 0.2s buffer isn't enough?

[potent pivot]

For humans?

[outer sky]

Vulpera

[potent pivot]

Or are you asking for bots like yourself

[snow harness]

is there a world where goomblade with dark brew is good? and the 50% extra dmg after dance is over

[potent pivot]

Gloomblades pretty dogass rn

[outer sky]

There may be a world but it ain't this one

[snow harness]

lmao

yea shadowstrike is jut to strong + 20 second dance recharge

[outer sky]

50% extra damage when dance is over is such a meme

[snow harness]

does backstab/gloom have any apex or coup interactions?

[outer sky]

No

Wel

Gloomblade being shadow damage

[snow harness]

i like gloom and goremaw, and i wish they were good

[outer sky]

Gets a 10% buff from our apex

[snow harness]

that means goremaw gets 10% buff to right

im gonna copium my way into a goremaw build

and pretend its good

[potent pivot]

Goremaw ain’t that bad

[snow harness]

i wish it was like echoing reprimad and in slands

[potent pivot]

But hard to justify the talent point for it

[outer sky]

Its better than gloomblade

[snow harness]

a bit button to press every 45 sec

big*

isnt there an interaction about pressing a spender

or sorry not a spender a builder

[outer sky]

Next 3 are energy free

No

Spender

[snow harness]

not on goremaw but something else, like it increases the dmg of a builder or something

shadowstrike is just better then goremaw in every way isnt it?

shadowstrike does so much

[outer sky]

Theres a lot of shit like that

[snow harness]

the one thing goremaw has going for it is that is shadow dmg

[potent pivot]

Perforated veins

[snow harness]

ye thats it

event then, SS is just better in every sceonario i think

esp/ if your running weaponmaster

do you have to drop warning signs for weaponmaster?

or is there another talent u can drop for it

[outer sky]

One thing I liked about goremaws on beta was the extra lash macabre damage

[outer sky]

Between those 2 you'd drop weaponmaster lol

[snow harness]

iirc, macabre is big dmg on ur breakdown

[outer sky]

It is

[snow harness]

what is the itneraction between macabre and goremaw

[outer sky]

Its just another button

So you can use it as a builder after shadowstrike

[potent pivot]

Every different ability you press during dance procs macabre

[outer sky]

And thats not a repeat ability

[snow harness]

ooh sht

ye thats good

do u lose anything major for having goremaw

[outer sky]

Yeah you have to drop an apex node or another capstone

And generally thats not worth it for goremaws

[sharp sierra]

okay think im ready to turn quests in

this one only took 6.5 hours

[potent pivot]

[outer sky]

"Only"

[sharp sierra]

i dont know what im doing wrong lol

gonna do a tank spec next

just not sure if i wanna do my dh and hope for havoc buff or pally for holy

kinda just wanna do dh since this will be my disc

[outer sky]

DH. Fuck the pink class

[sharp sierra]

dude ret is the only spec in this entire game i have never played

im so turned off by the paladin fantasy

i wonder if havoc will be fine to level with since the self healing

[outer sky]

I tried it last season its boring af

[snow harness]

gloom, dark brew and dance macabre all have good synergy

[outer sky]

But you literally always feel like you have a button

Like if you lose you 100% fucked up

[sharp sierra]

the whole fantasy itself turns me off

im horde

not goody two shoes alliance

[outer sky]

You gotta let the gloomblade dream go man

[sharp sierra]

[snow harness]

lmaooo

man i hope pshero comes on midnight

[outer sky]

Even if you take dark brew it wouldnt be for gloomblade

[snow harness]

i love watching him play sub

he always has a gloomblade/goremaw tech he cooked up

[outer sky]

I remember when only alliance could be paladins

[snow harness]

keep in mind, dark brew with weapon master / gloomblade actually sound like, not that bad

lots of shsadow dmg comin out

[outer sky]

I dont think dark brew is bad. I just dont know if its worth what you have to drop to get it. The first part of darkbrew is practically useless to us in pvp. Our wound poison does such little damage that buffing it by 10% is negligible.

The 10% increased shadow damage is good

But

[sharp sierra]

youd lose so much

[outer sky]

Not so good you'd drop something else for it

I think maybe if we ever end up playing deathstalker then dark brew would be a lot more attractive

[snow harness]

do you though?

[outer sky]

As well as finality which you have to take to get to it

[snow harness]

im looking at my talent tree as a lvl 84

i just realized.

i was like what would i swap?

i still got a cpl nodes for free lol

[outer sky]

Yeah death stalker already has a talent that buffs your shadow damage by 30% for 30 seconds after blades ends

[snow harness]

i meant do you though like losing alot

for those talentss

the first dance dont really matter , i wouldnt mind dropping that one

ngl

for some gloomblade action

[outer sky]

If we're playing deathstalker then that means 2 things.

The bugs are fixed and our damage profile has moved towards finishers

Which means you can drop things we wouldn't drop now

[outer sky]

I dont think anyone plays the first dance anyway

[snow harness]

theres a world where u play gloomblade/dark brew / weapon master with coup de grace

i can invission it rn

im a pioneer bro

trickster* not coup lol but ye

[outer sky]

Good luck on the glad push with the gloomblade spam

[snow harness]

lingering shadow to

13 seconds without dance

u can either run around a pillar and wait for dr, or u can gloomblade

also, u dont need dance to kill ppl with this build, ill gloomblade / goremaw someone 100-0 in a kidney

[outer sky]

Youre too energy starved outside of dance for gloomblade to matter

[snow harness]

no dance needed

na m8, goremaw got the energy sorted

[outer sky]

No it doesnt

You want to use that during dance

[snow harness]

true

[outer sky]

For lash

The current state of sub right now isnt one where gloomblade could ever be viable

Dance uptime is too high so optimizing the time outside of it is less important than in the past

And outside of dance we are SEVERELY energy starved

So even if it was a good button

You wouldn't get to press it enough

[outer sky]

And obviously you'd never press it during dance

[outer sky]

Now youre just trolling

[snow harness]

whats 10% of 32 nature dmg?

keep in mind, that nature is now shadow.

so it matters

[outer sky]

3.2

[snow harness]

tech.

this actually buffs gloom tho

[outer sky]

Couldn't be more irrelevant

[snow harness]

and keep in mind, ur getting more unseen blades

outside of dances

[outer sky]

https://tenor.com/view/ugh-gif-5621610198334958462

[sharp sierra]

[outer sky]

Wtf did you get 105k xp from

[sharp sierra]

delve turn in

[outer sky]

Oh yeah forgot about the modifiers

[sharp sierra]

10% from alts

10% from dmf

hopefully i can get dh done tomorrow even faster since i can pull a room without falling asleep and running for my life

[snow harness]

i got 80-84 today on my rogue from herb/mining alone

will do it until 88 and then do my delves

[outer sky]

I think youre supposed to do the delves earlier because something about scaling makes them easier at lower level

[sharp sierra]

eh i did the last 3 at the end and it was fine

the fucking grotto one

current story sucks i hated it

[outer sky]

I did all 8 today and that mirror one was the worst by far

[sharp sierra]

oh god yeah

WAY too long

the one with the dinosaur shields was stupid too

[outer sky]

That didn't bother me much I just killed the dinosaurs through the shields it wasnt hard

[sharp sierra]

spriest not having instant damage just felt bad. i think ill do havoc instead of vdh

should be fine

[snow harness]

good call, ill do them first and continue farming

[sharp sierra]

i need to do mass aoe lmao

[snow harness]

btw, where is find weakness passive or w.e?

i cant find it in my spellbook or talents, i want to read it

[outer sky]

Lol

Go to your talents

Its the very first talent of the sub tree

[snow harness]

lmfao

ty

[outer sky]

The mirrors one where it has you position the mirrors to light up 6 of those shadow orb things

That should be nerfed to only 3 or 4

6 is too much

Makes it too long

[snow harness]

macabre is actually pretty cracked, and for that alone i think goremaw is a good talent choice

[outer sky]

Ok well literally nobody else thinks so

[sharp sierra]

let em try it

[snow harness]

depends what u drop for it

but

that extra lash ur getting from gore during dance

is legit big dam.

dont even need dark brew

[outer sky]

What're you dropping for it?

[sharp sierra]

unless your going to drop all apex talents which would be the worst thing you could do youre gonna lose some talents that cant be worth at all to lose

[snow harness]

hard for me to say im only lvl 84

i wasnt sure if everyone was running first dance or not

but id drop first dance for gore

[sharp sierra]

before i log gotta go kill some alliance as revenge

[outer sky]

Idk if you can. I think its too high up in the tree

[sharp sierra]

had one pally get smoked by me then run to a random gdruid to help him

[snow harness]

cheap shot > coup > gore > tech, 100-0 with macabre

[outer sky]

No thats really bad

[snow harness]

debatable

[outer sky]

Not debatable at all

[snow harness]

whys it bad

[outer sky]

This rotation isnt fazing the target

Youre just losing 8% damage for 0 reason

[snow harness]

ahh mb, throw in a ss in there

[sharp sierra]

yo wtf this is actually sick

[snow harness]

yea i was lvling my disc today

pretty cool changes

Kidney > SS > coup > gore > Tech. dont think you can do those 4 globals after cheap esp w/ the coup extra duration but i think in a kidney you can do all those

i'll test it once im max lvl n stuff

thats gotta be a 100-0, or very close to it

some serious damage lol

[sharp sierra]

youd have no energy or combo points

[snow harness]

how

[sharp sierra]

youd have to run no apex talents

or give up shadowcraft

[snow harness]

to run gore?

[sharp sierra]

yup

[snow harness]

this is my tree rn (and im lvl 84)

i can legit swap out weaponmaster for gore

[outer sky]

@potent pivot are you still here?

[sharp sierra]

i just dont see the difference

[snow harness]

yo zicore, Kidney > SS > coup > gore > Tech. thoughts?

[sharp sierra]

when energy isnt an issue

with current build we are using

like you would gain nothing with gore

[snow harness]

macabre damage

[outer sky]

He wants it for the lash damage

[snow harness]

its huge and it matters

and u lose nothing

u lose weaponmaster

20% chance of pad

for 100% chance of big macabre in stuns

every 45 sec

[sharp sierra]

here let me try rq

[snow harness]

do this rune. Kidney > SS > coup > gore > Tech.

try that combo

stack up a coup first for a bigger tech

but even then, it doesnt matter thats just like the giga combo

but even without coup, its still big damage with cabre

[sharp sierra]

no gore

gore

idk i might have done something wrong

[snow harness]

same combo?

[sharp sierra]

yeah

[snow harness]

and you dropped weaponmaster for gore right?

[sharp sierra]

yup

felt awkward to fit into a dance window

imo

[snow harness]

you crit with tech i think

i think u did something wrong

[outer sky]

Its only 1 extra lash

[snow harness]

ur not changing amount of globals

[outer sky]

Its nice but nothing amazing

[snow harness]

true, + gore dmg

idk how good gore dmg is compared to ss

[sharp sierra]

well it did 13k

lol

[outer sky]

If it were that big then people would be playing it

[sharp sierra]

it feels weird pressing that during dance

idk thats on dummies without stat change

[snow harness]

you didnt use shadow blades eh

[sharp sierra]

nope

[snow harness]

for both combos?

was gore enough to get you from 0 to max combo pts

after pressing coup

without blades

[outer sky]

Another thing though ngl idk how accurate this in game damage meter really is tbh

[snow harness]

just tested the combo and my macabre was top dam

but keep in mind im lvl 84 lol

[potent pivot]

testing things at low level is pointless

[snow harness]

true true

[potent pivot]

testing things on target dummies is also pointless

[snow harness]

btw i gave wrong combo, because u have to open with SS from sstealth to generate combo for the kidney

[outer sky]

Hey did they revert the change making elite 2300 instead of 2400?

[snow harness]

so itd be SS from stealth > kidney > ss > coupe > gore > tech.

would be the real combo

no blades.

[potent pivot]

not that i know of why

[snow harness]

try that ^ @sharp sierra

[outer sky]

Blizzard posted this

It says the tabard is still 2400

[potent pivot]

thats not the general thing to do rn

[outer sky]

For elite

[potent pivot]

maybe a typo/miscommunication thing

[snow harness]

ik im theory crafting macabre proc from gore to be better value then 20% chance weaponmaster pad

every 45 sec within ur stun windows

[potent pivot]

you want to use a finisher first global in dance

[snow harness]

kidney ye

[sharp sierra]

now i can go to bed

[snow harness]

not in a dance

[sharp sierra]

[snow harness]

you dance after kidney

[sharp sierra]

also why did he explode into fireworks

lmao

[potent pivot]

i don't think we're going to use either of those talents

[potent pivot]

rofl

[snow harness]

i think it could be good trickz, no dark brew or anything fancy, simply just gore on its own

[outer sky]

In pve but in pvp wont our first global almost always be cheap shot?

[snow harness]

as a nice macabre pad every 45 sec in ur stuns

i think u can 100-0 without blades in a kidney if they dont press

or close to it

[outer sky]

No you cannot

[snow harness]

close to it

[outer sky]

Without blades?

[snow harness]

yep

[outer sky]

Nah

[snow harness]

its a scary go

u can amke them press by using that combo

and then kill them with blades after xd, or vice versa

[outer sky]

Its scary for the rest of us who know what it should look like to have to watch it, yes

[potent pivot]

in most cases ya was just pointing out how that example would have been bad

the best thing to do is finisher first

[snow harness]

why is that combo bad

[potent pivot]

if you use a finisher as first global you squeeze and extra finisher into your dance

[snow harness]

SS from stealth > kidney > SS > Evis > gore > tech. no blades needed for this combo

yea you can dance kidney

[pastel burrow]

fuck he's technically correct

you dont need blades for that combo

[snow harness]

your ss'ing from stealth to ge tthe full combo for kidney

yea you dont need blades, and u get full combo each ss / gore

[potent pivot]

why would you do that

[outer sky]

Well first of all this isnt shadowlands season 2. People in glad range actually have their monitors on. When you pop out of stealth with a shadowstrike thats a full global you can be targeted when someone isnt CCd. And they WILL use that global to stop your go.