pvp

[molten hedge]

fr

[true warren]

is there a known preemptive maneuver bug?

[molten hedge]

only if u take dn usually

[true warren]

darkest night?

[potent pivot]

?

[potent pivot]

a few yeah

[gusty hedge]

[hollow yoke]

whats a good place to find talents for pvp

im kinda new ish to it

[molten hedge]

@potent pivot DEEZ NUTS

https://tenor.com/view/gotem-gif-18695498

[true warren]

https://tenor.com/view/disappointment-gif-21343121

[molten hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/balcony-clorox-jump-pretend-pretendo-to-jump-gif-23427978

Them rn

[true warren]

https://tenor.com/view/wtf-cringe-gif-3284889746931964644

[subtle warren]

I like this sometimes

[sage shoal]

hello is there any code for outlaw pvp build

[dark kernel]

https://tenor.com/view/ig-live-whackwurld-6uava-whackwurid-ig-live-water-gif-21841939

[sharp sierra]

CQQAByFP3pExAEG41/8+e6b8fDgZ2mBjZYmtZmZmZMmtNjZsNtNYbGAAAAAgtlZmZYmZmZMzMGAAAAGzADmtZzMzMamZjZjltpF2YAmZmZGYA

[vocal surge]

You essentially setup your big burst (+5 BTE Damage stacks), more if possible

Then once you're ready, Prep

and kill

[sage shoal]

thanks

[sage shoal]

okok

[sage shoal]

dont we start with buffs first tho

[vocal surge]

Pressing Roll the bones, ye

You're damage starts off weak, but it ramps up

Pretty much the opposite of TWW

[grim sequoia]

I havent played sub rogue since before the great purge, is it really just backstab/shadowstrike->evis spam under shadow blades+secret technique spam now??

i've been a demo lock enjoyer all of pre patch

[vocal surge]

UNLIMITED POWER

35% haste

[spring bough]

MORE POWER

[vocal surge]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-more-power-power-power-up-spongebob-squarepants-gif-22777710

https://tenor.com/view/9795s-spongebob-gif-22617692

8 Jackpots and 9 Triple Threats in a row

with +10 Between the Eyes stacks

constantly

No Tea build go brrr

@spring bough I NO LONGER NEED TEA

[spring bough]

Yeah we will see about that on live in a few weeks 😭

[vocal surge]

This is with full Conq gear in Beta btw

Not retail

[spring bough]

Yeah I know. Tuning also gonna happen with a week or two of season. Hopefully good but never know 🤷‍♂️

[vocal surge]

Yee

[dark kernel]

I look forward to the outlaw work done here while I did sub

May our mutual love of rogue bring us great prosperity

[spring bough]

Okay blue name

[dark kernel]

https://tenor.com/view/sushichaeng-reaction-meme-mario-evil-gif-20659960

[proven field]

Wait what is blue name

[muted abyss]

filthy sub players

[proven field]

https://klipy.com/gifs/trump-shane-gillis

[muted abyss]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJy4yPBGCB0 seems fun in bgs

[vocal surge]

Average Fatebound Rogue build thou

It's been around since TWW S1

[spring bough]

It’s slower now too 😭

But still the fastest

[sharp sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/aaronpaul-aaron-paul-cry-crying-gif-7621646

[vocal surge]

Want the sauce?

https://tenor.com/view/the-matrix-choose-pill-gif-5437251

[coarse monolith]

What's the source of this build? Honestly, if it's the talent of someone without any skills, I don't want to copy it.

[vocal surge]

Its my build boi

[coarse monolith]

oh..Tell me your character's name

[vocal surge]

Wersarcht

[coarse monolith]

https://check-pvp.com/us/Moon Guard/Wersarcht

Is this you? If so... I'll just use it as a reference. And could you tell me why you didn't choose gouge?

[vocal surge]

AoE Blind applies Blackjack to everyone, free as well
Gouge costs so much energy, it hampers our rotation

And ye

[coarse monolith]

Hmm, that's convincing. Is Outlaw going to go for a DPS concept rather than sophisticated play anymore?

[vocal surge]

Ye, we dont have access to cheap shot as often anymore

2min CD from Vanish or whenever your able to reset

Instead what we're doing is stacking damage increases and multipliers

So to start off, there's 2 main ways we deal damage
Giga stacking Between the Eyes (through Zero-In) OR stacking Between the Eyes buff to increase our entire kit

[coarse monolith]

I see, you only asked my name and I didn't answer. I [yazim-tichondrius]

[vocal surge]

ALL Finishers
+3 Combo Points (Supercharger, +42.8% Damage)
x1.2 Damage from Adrenaline Rush (Menacing Rush)

Between the Eyes increasers
+60% Damage & 60% Crit Chance (Zero In)
x3 Damage (Improved Between The Eyes)

Fatebound Only
+10% Damage from Head Coins (can scale far higher with consequent coins)
+4% Agility Lucky Coin
+5% from Delivered Doom

Trickster Only
+8% Damage Taken (Fazed)
+4% - 20% Finisher Damage (Flawless Form)

[spring bough]

lol

[vocal surge]

To buff our entire kit, we use Between the Eyes. It increases our damage dealt by 6%. There's a 45% chance for us to gain 2 stacks of that 6% damage dealt buff through Gravedigger. Each stack has its own duration based on the amount of combo points spent and does not refresh.

We place 2 on Summarily Dispatched to continue increasing the damage value of Coup de Grace and Dispatch outside of Between the Eyes stacking/spamming but you can take 1 off for Keep it Rolling if you want to carry over Loaded Dice before the next Adrenaline Rush window.

and ye, whenever we pop Adrenaline Rush (moreso at +7 Between the Eyes 6% damage buff stacks), we start to crank

[coarse monolith]

I'm not sure if I copied the code correctly. Is this correct?

[vocal surge]

Is this on Live ye?

You did copy it correctly, just that the one posted is meant for Beta

[sharp sierra]

Considering there’s 5 people in the world playing outlaw…

[outer sky]

When did we get up to 5?

[vocal surge]

Would probably just drop Supercharger for Tea and Deeper Stratagem, Dont be Suspicious / Surprising Strikes for the rightside column and Capstone

[coarse monolith]

write code

[vocal surge]

CQQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgZYwYGmZbmZmZGjZbzYGbTbD2mBAAAAAYbZmZwMzMzYmZMAAAAmxMAMmNAZgBL0CbMAzMYA

[coarse monolith]

beta ver?

[vocal surge]

Retail version

Previous one was for Beta

[coarse monolith]

right?

[vocal surge]

Ye

[dark kernel]

Oh hey, you doing outlaw again this season?

[coarse monolith]

I don't know yet. I used to play all 3 specs in one season, but I'm wondering if I should do the same this season or just play 1 or 2 good specs.

[outer sky]

0 reason to play a rogue spec other than sub and unless they do another redesign it will remain that way forever. The utility gap between sub and the other 2 rogue specs is too big now to realistically ever be overcome just with numbers tuning. Assa and outlaw would need to be able to 100-0 someone reliably every cheap shot for anyone to even look at them compared to sub

[vocal surge]

Fite me

[coarse monolith]

Of course I know that, but just picking good specs isn't the play style I'm aiming for. I want to be good at all specs, and I think I can get to GLAD with bad specs whenever I want.

[outer sky]

Im not happy about it either. It just is what it is.

[vocal surge]

No, fite me in Beta

[outer sky]

Im working

[vocal surge]

Rip

[outer sky]

But I can in a couple hours

[vocal surge]

Aye

imma do a shuffle match before napping

[coarse monolith]

And if you have the skills, no matter how bad you are, I think you can become a gladiator. That's what I've always done

[outer sky]

Its just boring too, to not have any CC.

[dark kernel]

Well put that to the test

I'm pushing this season all gas

[gilded gulch]

im fine as long as its not an assa season

snooze spec

its funny in shuffle when double kill in damp

[outer sky]

There wont be an assa or outlaw season ever again unless a redesign is done

[gilded gulch]

probably for the better

assa seasons are just unfun

[outer sky]

Eh so are resto druid seasons

[gilded gulch]

Well yeah rdruid meta means damage is slow

typically

[outer sky]

The only word I can use to describe your take on this though is one that I cant say in this chat because it offends people who that word generally applies to

We can't just be killing specs entirely because you subjectively determine that theyre unfun

Thats a terrible gameplay design strategy

[gilded gulch]

Hot based specs tend to perform worse when damage is very spiky

thats how its always been

[outer sky]

I mean "I dont like when X spec is good so it should just never be good"

Thats just

The word i cant say

[gilded gulch]

I mean in theory assa should have more rot damage less control

tradeoff of specs

[outer sky]

But the gap shouldn't ever be so big that it cant be bridged without broken numbers tuning

And thats where we're at now

[gilded gulch]

garrote silence is pretty big

[spring bough]

But but outlaw is fun

[gilded gulch]

its rough to adjust because you cant have bfa levels where assa could nuke someone

and also tons of passive rot

[outer sky]

Cope

[gilded gulch]

i mean bfa it was insanely broken with mfd toxic blade every kidney

[outer sky]

You can let 1 spec multi stun every set of DRs and make the others only get 1 stun tied to a 2m CD and then say that's just an "adjustment" issue

Its a terrible argument

[sharp sierra]

38 second aoe blind is hot though

[gilded gulch]

its all tuning based anyway

sub had way more access to dance but not enough damage to justify play

in other seasons

[outer sky]

No matter how hard you try and cope with it, the fundamental design of the 3 rogue specs right now effectively deletes 2 of the specs from pvp

No it is not tuning

You cant give assa or outlaw enough damage to bridge the utility gap

[gilded gulch]

giving cheap a cooldown kind of lets them ideally balance sub’s damage

[outer sky]

Idk you're just missing the point

[vocal surge]

Technically there was suggestions made in the past on Outlaw's end to increase Audacity related gameplay

[outer sky]

Kind of tired of explaining this every other day

I hope youre right

[sharp sierra]

I kinda like fighting sub rogues

I see step kick I blind from half a mile away

I see shadow blades on my screen? I disarm and laugh

[vocal surge]

By Audacity related gameplay, enable our stealth kit outside of stealth so we're not vanishing

[outer sky]

Youre not

But I hope you are

[vocal surge]

So instead of wanting to be in Subterfuge almost 24/7, we can have access to Cheap Shot through gameplay enabling talents

[sharp sierra]

If anything I’d rather be fighting sub rogues than shamans at this point 🤣

[vocal surge]

But we didn't get that on this rework

likewise Outlaw didn't get a Survivability rework, just pruned

[sharp sierra]

Can they even raise our damage without issues?

By issues I mean everyone else crying

[vocal surge]

The suggest I made for Outlaw was to give us a Stagger mechanic balanced around DPS gameplay

[coarse monolith]

To be honest, the current level is really serious. It's a bad class with only low DPS because CC was removed from CC play. That's why I'm hesitant. I believe that if you invest time and effort, you can achieve your goal, but I think that time and effort will cause a lot of stress.

[outer sky]

Whenever any rogue spec is good people cry

[gilded gulch]

I mean tbf they can adjust sub’s damage nowadays

[vocal surge]

and not like tank where we stack multiple DR abilities to make it super efficient

[outer sky]

May as well just get used to it

[sharp sierra]

YO LOWKEY I WOULD FUCK WITH THIS

[gilded gulch]

if you could solo someone when cheap had no cd it was busted

[vocal surge]

See, this FITS Outlaw's Class Fantasy

[outer sky]

You could cut its damage in half and buff assa and outlaw another 50% and it still wouldnt change anything

[sharp sierra]

In DnD the swashbuckler sub type is kinda like this

[gilded gulch]

sub wouldnt do enough damage

to see play

[outer sky]

It doesnt need to. There will always be a caster that can make up the damage

[gilded gulch]

theres been seasons its existed as a mage stunbot

cheap having a cd means you can give the spec damage now kinda

[sharp sierra]

They should let us disarm casters 🤣

[outer sky]

It has more CC than it has before bro

[dark kernel]

I expect it, but that's why I'm choosing this one season, because it's the highest likelihood that I will be able to do it

[vocal surge]

Like Zicore

Imagine if this talent

was baked into our kit for not Ambush

[gilded gulch]

you technically cant spam cheap as much anymore

[vocal surge]

But to gain access to our stealth kit

without having to pop vanish

the trigger for the talent doesn't have to be Pistol Shot either btw

That would resolve Outlaw's CC issue entirely

[gilded gulch]

outlaw having stealth damage windows was weird asf

ngl

[vocal surge]

and knock out the "Gib Shadow Dance / Vanish" gameplay issue

while satisfying people who dont want that

[outer sky]

Yeah I mean at this point its just a comprehension issue on your part. If you think sub is CCing people less now than it was before idk how to reason with you. You're just wrong. And thats why you think numbers tuning matters when it doesnt

[gilded gulch]

yeah old dance did give more cheaps

[outer sky]

Okay

[sharp sierra]

Boarding the ship: Upon grapple landing shock your enemies by stunning them for 4 seconds in a 5m radius of landing

[vocal surge]

Fatebound on their way to quake the whole lobby or BG

Or even worse, EBG

[sharp sierra]

Dude imagine

Fuck the flag

I’m stunning the whole lobby 🤣

[spring bough]

Just have a DH ready to go when rogue gets nuked from nerfs

[vocal surge]

Wouldn't pass

[sharp sierra]

“THEY HAVE A PIRATE LOOK OUT STOP SITTING MAIN”

[sharp sierra]

That’s what my mage is for lol

[vocal surge]

But ye

Stagger is probably our best option for defensive

[outer sky]

Isnt outlaw a cowboy now?

[vocal surge]

Over stepping on the devs toes

With how much DR we get

Looking at Preemptive Maneuverability + Elusiveness from TWW

[sharp sierra]

Real rogues stealth so good we can roleplay as anything

[vocal surge]

Combat Stamina, Enduring Brawler

Everytime we got health buffs, we got too tanky

[sharp sierra]

Yeah but then the pve Andy’s would cry too much

[vocal surge]

Because Crimson Vial healing scales hard

Everytime DR got buffed

People start to hate playing vs Outlaw because now they're dealing with the tankiest rogue spec that is also one of the lower damaging specs

So winning or losing takes +7mins to resolve

Or just outright unfair to fight

In the case of Preemptive Maneuverability when it first came to the pvp scene for Rogue

[gilded gulch]

outlaw needs cannon barrage back

[proven field]

or, Sub needs a downside too

[gilded gulch]

well assuming it does damage

sub’s downside should be in theory it is a wet noodle outside goes

[sharp sierra]

I’d like killing spree back

[gilded gulch]

outlaw has it still?

[sharp sierra]

Kinda stupid a 3m cd ability gets cancelled while everyone else has crazy immune cc

[outer sky]

Maybe if that "downside" is something like "stunning a target more than 3 times in 1 minute timeframe causes the rogue to spontaneously combust" people may experiment with the other specs

[proven field]

assa rot damage/aoe, outlaw tanky high sustain, sub should be fragile burst

[gilded gulch]

blame this on wod s1

[vocal surge]

Singular Focos on Killing Spree you mean (targets down your target instead of rng)

?

[gilded gulch]

goobers killing people with redbuff spree

[sharp sierra]

Yes sorry

I don’t like that it can be cucked

Meanwhile half the other classes in the games are cc immune in big goes

[vocal surge]

Yee

[proven field]

Yeah sub's kit is just too strong.. you can't have the most control and the most burst and the same mobility and healing... why would you play anything else if you're pushing seriously

(or why would you bring something else wiht you)

[outer sky]

Thats what im saying. The rogue specs need a redesign or nobody will ever play anything other than sub

Like think if they made it so arcane was the only mage spec that could sheep twice in a row lol

In what universe would frost or fire ever see play

[proven field]

well a lot of the former individuality moved from spec trees to rogue tree so they need to boost other dmg more, or figure out some way to make other specs more individual and effective

[outer sky]

They need a reresign

[proven field]

Rogue Combat Evasion Tank

[gilded gulch]

It literally got nerfed in wod because you could 100-0 someone in kidney

while being cc proof

[sharp sierra]

damn

im assuming they also changed it for pve

current change i mean

[gilded gulch]

No it was mostly due to pvp

redbuff shadow reflection kidney spree go

xddddd

[proven field]

part of the redesign problem I would see is that other specs have expanded into rogue space so much, how would you effectively make assa/outlaw new and interesting and unique and not just... non-cat feral and SMF warr with a bit of surv hunter for flavor

[gilded gulch]

if you watch like wod s1 tourney plays

its just combat teams

and second someone gets kidneyed into spree goes 100-0

[outer sky]

They gotta do something cuz they absolutely cannot leave it like this

[gilded gulch]

sub shouldnt really have passive damage

[sharp sierra]

i meant the animation and aoe change, im assuming the old KS didnt work well in pve?

[gilded gulch]

idk anyone that liked pve combat

except boomers

[vocal surge]

Outlaw could incorporate Audacity's elements into its own kit to gain access to Cheap Shot from nonstealth

[sharp sierra]

i cant imagine we have any reason to even bother with audacity and ambush anymore huh

[proven field]

Yeah but then you're just bundling CC into RNG which would drive people crazy too

maybe something simpler like a "Lady Luck" ability that forces all current DRs to reset with a like 2 min CD

then you could just re-incorporate KS, could further burst with AR, get another KS, etc

[vocal surge]

Ye

[proven field]

for assa I know it wasnt popular but I miss the old exsanguinate... little button press to just turn up the burn

[subtle warren]

Noooo

Leave sub

Feels great

Just fix the others bit

No way we need a nerf after watching some of the 1 button classes trash people for entire expacs

[proven field]

its too late we already did it

you should have been here ten mins ago

[subtle warren]

Truly though idk why they don’t just add a stun to the toolkit of the others

I mean we can’t expect them all to be playable at the same level - no class is like that

[proven field]

perfect world all 3 viable all content - rarely possible

assa probably has the biggest problem, no real home... Sub rules Arena, but also BGB now.. Outlaw at least always M+ darling... assa is... ?

[outer sky]

The problem is, cheap shot spam was too integral to the rogue kit to vary its power much by spec. Its to rogues what sheep is to mages, fear to warlocks, clone to druid, trap to hunter, etc. You cant make 1 spec "way better" at those things than the others and keep the other realistically viable

[proven field]

at least not when everyone dies in the CS spam

[subtle warren]

I agree

But like, can’t they make it so the other two specs get 1 additional cheap shot or kidney or something somehow

Or 2 blinds

Like just give them another cc

It doesn’t make it perfect… but it makes it better….

[stoic spruce]

They could just delete the talent that give sub 2 CS and give CS 2 charges like people thought was the case in the first place

[spring bough]

Or maybe just remove the cooldown

No more vanish cdr so don’t really matter much for outlaw anymore

And most won’t play without a trace too

[stoic spruce]

Well they gave CS a 12 second cooldown for a reason

Sub is shitting out shadow dances so it'd make the divide that much worse.

[subtle warren]

There you go hire this guy

[spring bough]

🤷‍♂️

Sub gonna get nerfed I already see it coming lmao

[dark kernel]

https://tenor.com/view/lipstick-buscemi-be-yourself-werk-yasgurl-gif-4120289

Not if I can help it

[stoic spruce]

Lolol

[stoic spruce]

It's dmg could be bugged to do 0 dmg and it'd still be better than assa and outlaw

[spring bough]

Yeah sub getting nerfed aent no way around it lmao

I can already hear the forums posts week 1

[outer sky]

Exactly. Someone else in here finally gets it

[stoic spruce]

WoW pvp is Sub RMPs world and we just live in it

Has been for 18 years

[subtle warren]

Ya leveling unholy dk as well

Blizz gonna let them aids roll people all season

[stoic spruce]

You're funny

Dk historically gets nuked at the beginning of every expac

[spring bough]

That why ima have a Devourer ready

[stoic spruce]

Yeah thats a good one

[spring bough]

Cause they can’t nuke nerf the new fun class spec

Too many people gonna be playing it for it not to stay S tier lmao

[outer sky]

DK gets nerfed even when nobody is playing it lmao

[subtle warren]

Frost dk

Unholy they let stay S

[stoic spruce]

Unholy as well

Unholy was good 1 season in TWW

[subtle warren]

True I guess

[stoic spruce]

Half a season

[outer sky]

Nah UDK doesn't get it as bad as frost but they still get the nerf hammer

[stoic spruce]

Yeah for sure

[subtle warren]

Who is safe

[gleaming sentinel]

play what u like

[stoic spruce]

Rogue and mage

Sub rather

[outer sky]

Lock is usually pretty safe too

[stoic spruce]

Hunter and druid as well

[outer sky]

Demo is INSANE on beta omg

[stoic spruce]

Druid always got something stupid going on

[dark kernel]

Yeah I'm choosing a druid too to boost

[outer sky]

Im on team yellow no matter how bad things get

[stoic spruce]

Yeah for sure

[outer sky]

As long as we still have smoke bomb, I will never reroll

Inc blue post lmao

[stoic spruce]

My damage could be bad but my toolkit, though not as good as Subs, is still very good relative to other classes.

[outer sky]

Sub having 2m smoke bomb is another really strong thing nobody talks about

Same CD as trinket

So if someone trinkets out of sync with it

You now have a win con

Thats way harder with 3m Smoke bomb

[stoic spruce]

2 minute smoke bomb?

Has it always been that?

[outer sky]

Yeah. Sub has a shorter CD on smoke bomb than the other specs

2m instead of 3

[stoic spruce]

For how long

[outer sky]

As long as I can remember

[stoic spruce]

And sub players have the nerve to complain

[outer sky]

They used to have 2 charges of it

[stoic spruce]

I believe it

[outer sky]

But the thing that turns me off to outlaw is

The hook

And its even worse now

Especially compared to sub which gets a 20% shorter CD on step and 20% longer range

30 yard step>kick on a 24s CD 2 charges

So much better than the hook

I wish they'd just put hook and step on a choice node for all 3 specs so we can choose which one we want

[stoic spruce]

Nah I think hook is still better

[outer sky]

I didnt even like it pre nerf

[stoic spruce]

Purely for the fact that it's not tied to a target

[outer sky]

Thats why I hate it lol

I love targeted mobility

Step kick

Step kidney

[stoic spruce]

Hook cant be LoSed

[outer sky]

Im not saying it has 0 upsides, it does

[stoic spruce]

That one upside clears step

[outer sky]

But for me when I compare step to hook step comes out well ahead

[stoic spruce]

Mhm mhm

Naw

[outer sky]

Ye

By the time you hook to kick a cast the cast will be over before you get there

[gleaming sentinel]

flag running pretty fun sometimes too

just cheese a quick cap

[outer sky]

I agree with that

Hook is good in BGs

[stoic spruce]

Never happens to me

I simply know

It's like a cosmic being tells me what's being casted in the next .6 seconds

[gleaming sentinel]

the best is hooking over to kick, except you give them precog and then they fear you

[outer sky]

Getting CCd mid hook

@gleaming sentinel You play surv, right? Can you send me the meta talent build for pre patch?

[gleaming sentinel]

i dont play surv no, i play outlaw and a little demo

[outer sky]

who was it that was in here that plays surv

[dark kernel]

@grave basin

[outer sky]

ah yes

I knew it was one of the outlaw people

[dark kernel]

Its most of us now lol

[gleaming sentinel]

they get a cool killing spree that actuall kills

[dark kernel]

Big true

That's actually the most insulting part

[outer sky]

you mean boomstick?

[gleaming sentinel]

ye

[proven field]

That what I was saying earlier - other specs keep moving in on rogue stuff.. if surv went DW it would be an alternate dimension outlaw

Make the pet a parrot and we there

[gleaming sentinel]

if outlaw becomes a pet spec im quitting the game

[outer sky]

wtf this shit is broken

i dont even know what I'm doing

i just press takedown>boomstick and people die

[molten hedge]

P much

Chakrams crank too

[outer sky]

I'm playing pack leader. Should I go sentinal?

[stoic spruce]

I feel the same way with 99% of the takes in this server ngl lol

[gleaming sentinel]

ong

i will just get good at the spec i like and if it sucks thats fine. when it gets its turn i will be great

[gusty hedge]

Account 1

Account 2

[sharp sierra]

raids

[proven field]

chakram hit me for 159k the other night in a BGB lol

[sharp sierra]

any dot spec is auto good in raids

[spring bough]

Welcome to hunter lol

BM always pretty good too and it’s a 40 yard melee class 😂

Actually I think Kill Commands like 50 yards 💀

[outer sky]

it is

surv having a melee range kick feels kinda awkward though

[spring bough]

Have u tried BM?

[outer sky]

No and I never will

I only play surv

[molten hedge]

Last I heard Bicmex said pack leader was bis. But I think it got nerfed recently so I’m not sureee

[spring bough]

Stampedes are fun

[spring bough]

Pack leader seems to be the way to go

[outer sky]

according to murlok.io pack leader is way more popular

[spring bough]

I think they buffed pack leader when they nerfed sentinel

[molten hedge]

Ohh ok. I sent you an inv to Bicmex cord if u aren’t in already he’s p responsive

[spring bough]

That boar charge and bear claw from the pack leader hero talents hit hard asf

And it’s all passive

[molten hedge]

Surv is max aura of hunter specs for sure

[spring bough]

DW mogging now too lol

[grave basin]

Pl for sure

[molten hedge]

Yeah hunters cool. But the thing I hate about it is your inability to peel for your team

Worst peels in the game

But just landing trap off cd is free cr

I hateeee muzzle. It feels horrible to use

Ig if ur a melee ur used to it. But going from caster to surv feels bad

[grave basin]

Sv is fun but i wont main it in midnight

First time in 2 expacs

Sad

[livid grove]

Does anybody know if Deeper Daggers buffs the enchant Authority of the Depths?
Seeing as we stack a bit of haste now, would it be worth it to run it against other rogues to break them out of stealth sometimes? Kinda like rup used to.

[potent pivot]

It shouldn’t no and that’s one of the best enchants anyway so why not. We’re likely getting all new enchants in a week though you realize that right

[livid grove]

I do. Just curious I guess.

[proven field]

you spend that cash girlfriend

https://klipy.com/gifs/treat-yo-self-treat-your-self

come at me: Crimson Tempest can now spread Kingsbane and Deathmark - would that create a compelling assa

[agile kite]

Bros how much easier sub get

[lime oar]

easier

[lime oar]

just a substantial overall dmg buff would do it.

make kingsbane great again

[gleaming pawn]

Sin’s problem is not just damage. Pooling is not an arena friendly play style and that’s the entire design conceit for the spec

[proven field]

but would it be fun to spread everything

[molten hedge]

If it’s the same as beta enchants, ya it’s all new. I have this neck piece that has an on use embellishment for 50% of your hp. Prob nerfed in PvP but interested

[gleaming pawn]

Spreading bleeds around has been the shit ass design of the spec for the last 2-3 expansions. Fuck that, let it die

[molten hedge]

Feral seems to be pumping

[potent pivot]

Strongly disagree

[potent pivot]

Yeh some stuff might be placeholder but likely very close to what we’ll have

[analog tapir]

im gonna start a riot against blizzard if they dont make assa viable anymore 🙁

[sharp sierra]

So is outlaw

[potent pivot]

Nerf outlaw

[analog tapir]

im doing somthing wrong can u tell me an opener so i can re test it in duels

[molten hedge]

The new apex talents that gives free finishers is nice but you feel like you can’t properly use them before your cheaps. I guess you still get extra finishers regardless though

[analog tapir]

brother someone told me ur a good assa rogue pls tell me how to open so i can try it in duels

[potent pivot]

[potent pivot]

Depends on what cc you want to open with

But just garrote/builder/rupture then build for envenoms

It’s quite simple

Deathmark and KB if you’re full sending

[analog tapir]

okok

[potent pivot]

“Openers” aren’t the way to think about things

[analog tapir]

wich poisons do i use

ur damn right

[potent pivot]

Every spec in the game now, rotations are just priority lists

[potent pivot]

Amp+wound/crippling+numbing

Without DTB it’d just be wound/crippling but we’re going to be running DTB now

[analog tapir]

what is dtb ?

[potent pivot]

[sharp sierra]

https://youtube.com/shorts/hVDsMYG0aOw?si=_eIfGVI4mSYHT_Bo

Holy fuck we do live in a different world

[potent pivot]

Dragon Tempered Blades talent

Assa’s priority list is just: apply bleeds->envenom, send CDs when needed

[analog tapir]

okok

[potent pivot]

There are priority lists/rotations for every spec in the game on wowhead

That are generally the same shit we’d do in pvp damage wise

[potent pivot]

Wut

Why u askin questions u got the answer to

We don’t press shiv anymore

[outer sky]

Well, Hemo

They should probably just change hemo to something like "wound poison can stack one additional time" or something like that

If theyre gunna make shiv shit

[potent pivot]

I’m talking about rotationally for damage but yeh

[proven field]

I still shiv and hemo and run deadly because I am smooth brain BGB assa player

Garrote - ambush - shiv give you six pts, rupture, ambush, mut, full kidney, death mark, kings, then envenom spam… something like that

Kinda depends on who you opening on and what they do when you open

Just keep sending rounds - that’s what I’ve been doing / and slowly get more comfy with being reactive to change

I can get to 22…25k dps
Burst now; not great but I’m having fun

[outer sky]

You needed 2 full stun DRs to even get close to killing me when I didnt even have a healer

Its bad

Pretending it isnt is just cope

[proven field]

But I did kill you

[outer sky]

If you think that invalidates my point idk what to tell you

[proven field]

I’m just joking with you

[outer sky]

There has been so much cope in this channel over the last few weeks

[proven field]

Of course it’s cope

It’s good enough to have fun in BGs but of course you’ll do better as sub - anyone who disagrees would be playing themselves

[final pewter]

did the cheap shot cd get introduced in this expansion? is NE mandatory still? or is the difference between NE and (for example) Dwarf or Goblin not going to be that huge in pvp?

[potent pivot]

You’re the one that died

[potent pivot]

Yea and no

[proven field]

Had a guy today say “hey you’re pretty good, thought assa sucked” “hey thx dude” “imagine you actually played sub, might be effective” “…ya that’s fair” sad music plays

[outer sky]

NE is mandatory if you want to play assa. If you'll never play assa you can play whatever race. And yes the cheap shot just started this pre patch

[potent pivot]

?

[outer sky]

He died first. I just died to dots afterwards. The the 2nd time I killed him the BM hunter finished me off

[outer sky]

What are you confused about?

[potent pivot]

I don’t see how nelf is “mandatory” for any spec now

[outer sky]

Ah

I think with how little CC assa has now, having that 3rd vanish for another garrote silence go is basically a non negotiable

[potent pivot]

Nah lmao

[outer sky]

Idk i think thats completely fried. It needs all the help it can get

[potent pivot]

Calling nelf mandatory for maybe 1 extra silence per game is fried

[outer sky]

Lol

Its not "maybe" its a sure thing. And it eclipses any other racial's value 10x over

[potent pivot]

Cope

[outer sky]

Id rather play orc

[proven field]

DI dwarf free cloak, pretty great tbh

[outer sky]

But im holding out hope assa will be good so im still nelf

[potent pivot]

Panda, gnome, orc, dwarf

[outer sky]

Trash races for assa

This is probably one of your worst takes lmao

[proven field]

People sleep on the iron but it’s orc and cloak wrapped into a spicy Scottish blend

[outer sky]

Theres 0 argument

Youre just nerfing yourself

[potent pivot]

Brainlet I stg

[spring bough]

im going human rogue this season. double dps trinkets all the way LMAO

[outer sky]

Im thinking of making a non nelf rogue to use my midnight boost on

[spring bough]

that triggers the medallion CD... RIP

[spring bough]

humans are good

[outer sky]

I think orc is better

[proven field]

Does it? Feel like they changed it but maybe I’m dreamin

[severe helm]

it does

[outer sky]

They made it less bad

[severe helm]

its a 30s trigger though p sure

not a "long" cd like human racial

[outer sky]

It is. Used to be a minute

[potent pivot]

There’s also a way to game that

[proven field]

Well I think it’s neat

[outer sky]

But these days non stuns are basically stuns

[severe helm]

oh really?

[proven field]

And it’s saved me countless times

[potent pivot]

So that it isn’t even 30sec

Yeah

[severe helm]

do tell

[potent pivot]

Trinket already on CD and it won’t trigger

[severe helm]

well using trinket also puts it on cd I thought

[outer sky]

Only for 30s

[severe helm]

yeah

okay thats nothing new lol

[potent pivot]

It is

[severe helm]

if trinket cd is >30s then yes using racial doesnt do anything

[potent pivot]

Yeh

[outer sky]

They should probably change it so using the racial extends your trinket CD by 30s

[severe helm]

nah

that would be garbage

the point is so that you cant use them so close together

[outer sky]

They also need to put healer trinket back to 2m

[potent pivot]

Lol

[severe helm]

whys that

[outer sky]

It was just an unnecessary change

[severe helm]

whys that

[outer sky]

They just dont need it

[severe helm]

thats just the same thing you just said

but in different words

[potent pivot]

[outer sky]

Im not sure what answer you're looking for

[severe helm]

do you want me to define "why" for you?

[outer sky]

They had 2m trinket like everyone else for what like 18 years?

[severe helm]

yes and blizzard responded to CONTINUOUS feedback that being stuck in cc as a healer is shitty and annoying

on a role that is already shitty and annoying to play

[outer sky]

Let em cry

[severe helm]

so you want less healers in the game?

[outer sky]

Sure

[severe helm]

or do you think that you were winning more when it was 2min and now it feels unfair?

[outer sky]

I didnt even do pvp when it was 2m

[severe helm]

LOOOOOOL

self report

[outer sky]

I never got glad until s1 of this xpac

[severe helm]

then how do you even have a fucking opinion on it

[outer sky]

But it definitely seems unnecessarily short especially if it was 2m for 18 years

[severe helm]

how would you know...

you didnt play

https://giphy.com/gifs/wtf-obama-wth-pPhyAv5t9V8djyRFJH

[outer sky]

I mean i didnt play at a respectable rating

I still experienced 2m healer trinket

[severe helm]

do you think it made the game worse?

[outer sky]

I think we're probably about 2 xpacs away from trinket auto proccing precog

[severe helm]

well we had auto trinket in the past

and that got removed

[outer sky]

You mean adapt?

I think thats still in the game

[severe helm]

in SL it was very very strong

[potent pivot]

I’m gonna lose it

[severe helm]

but yeah idk it sounds like you havent actually played with and without 2min trinket as a healer so you really dont have any ground to stand on for your reasoning

[outer sky]

But I did. You can checkpvp me. I played in BFA and SL

[severe helm]

idk whats even going on rn

like im talking to one of those people on the street that says theyre an undercover FBI agent on a secret mission

anyway 1.5min is a fine change no complaints make healing more fun and make the game better for everybody

[outer sky]

I mean at a reasonable rating...

[severe helm]

no reason to make healing shittier

if you can describe an explicit example/scenario of why 1.5 min is a bad change that makes the game worse im all ears

[outer sky]

I find it favors cleave comps because by the time a set up comp does enough set ups to burn CDs the healers trinket is back.

[severe helm]

there we go now thats a reason, thats what I meant by "why".

And yeah at lower ratings I could see that being problematic for comps that win off of more rundown/less setups being more favored by the change but I think that all comes out in the wash when it comes down to balance for a season and theres good examples of that in the comp distribution of what was good/bad for tww

I dont think tww really overly favored cleave comps

and there have been previous xpacs when it was 2min and cleave comps were strong

so while it might in theory impact setup comps more if no other factors changed, other factors change in response to it so you end up with similar comp distributions imo

[outer sky]

What other factors changed with it though? I mean maybe now its more balanced because the time between DRs is shorter.

[severe helm]

every single aspect of the game

[outer sky]

Which matters

[severe helm]

hero talents exist

damage balance

reworks

[outer sky]

Those things change every xpac though

[severe helm]

like we saw rmp do fine in tww

with 1.5 min cd trinket

[severe helm]

thats my point

"all comes out in the wash"

like if it did make cleave comps better and blizz saw that cleave comps were winning too much and then they make tuning adjustments and suddenly that advantage is gone and those comps are effectively balanced around the 1.5min trinket

[outer sky]

But that same argument can be used against you. If all these things change and they fundamentally alter the meaning of healer trinket CD then theres no reason to touch it because those other factors can just all change

[severe helm]

theres so many factors that change throughout the course of a season/xpac that 1.5min trinket ends up not influencing balance much but it does influence how good/bad it feels to play healer

[severe helm]

exactly!

so make the change that feels good

and let the rest settle itself

thats my point

[outer sky]

In theory you could give them a 30s trinket and balance around it but you probably shouldn't

[severe helm]

like if they reduced the cd of blind by half obviously it would be OP in the moment

but if they were to then adjust things eventually they would be adjusted around the shorter cd

so if short blind cd feels good then thats a win win

but a less impactful but shorter cd blind might not be in their design goals

but a shorter trinket that means less time spent in cc as a healer and more agency on the healer to keep the team alive defensively for SURE is in their design goals

at least it appears as such

hell I'd advocate for healers being able to press your teammates defensives for them

that would be fucking awesome

[outer sky]

Healer agency took a massive shit this prepatch. Idk if theyre thinking about that much

[severe helm]

I havent been playing much pre patch what caused that?

pre patch tends to be so imbalanced I dont even bother thinking about it

[outer sky]

They pruned a lot of abilities that gave healers that "agency"

[severe helm]

oh yeah the pruning im sure reduced a lot of agency across the board, I think thats one of those competing priorities unfortunately

they want to make the game more approachable

and too much agency means bad players suffer more

I personally dont like the pruning design choices

[outer sky]

I mean im fine with making healers more viable kill targets

But some of this shit

Like taking thunderstorm from rsham

Now if a priest is running at them to fear them

They just get it

[severe helm]

yeah I hear rsham is like D tier in beta rn

[outer sky]

Theres other examples of that too

Thats just 1 very obvious one

[severe helm]

now imagine with all these pruning changes if we still had 2 min trinket

SHEESH

would be fucking awful

[outer sky]

Id rather revert some of the pruning and put their trinket back to 2m.

Having more tools is more fun

[severe helm]

but if they both accomplish the same thing but the pruning helps them with their other goals then keeping 1.5min is just a better choice

I dont agree with their pruning goals

but 1.5min trinket cd doesnt seem against them so it seems like the more correct thing to do in this case

[outer sky]

What % of healers at any respectable rating do you think are only playing healer because of 1.5m trinket and wouldn't with 2m trinket?

Id estimate <5%

[severe helm]

Im not sure its as explicit of an observation as that but Im sure there would be people quitting healing from enough arenas where they lose from being stuck in cc

do you think we would have more people playing overall if it was 2min?

[outer sky]

I dont think it would really matter for participation to be honest

[severe helm]

so why revert it

[outer sky]

Because it wouldn't matter for participation

[severe helm]

then theres no reason to revert it

but I disagree that it has 0 impact on healer participation as a person who plays healer

it makes me enjoy healing more

therefore its non zero

I am at least 1 🙂

[outer sky]

You wouldnt heal with 2m trinket?

Theres just no reason for it

You're not special because you opened your spellbook and clicked "activate" on a spec that heals

[potent pivot]

They are though

[outer sky]

Nah lol

[potent pivot]

Without them pvp does not exist

They are our special sacrifices to the pvp overlords

Go play a healer and tell me healers aren’t special

[outer sky]

Well, they're special in a certain context though idk if its the one you mean

If it were up to me id just replace them all with AI and watch them cry

Shit up to like 2.2 AI would probably do a better job of healing anyway

And bitch a lot less

[severe helm]

I am

in fact im rare enough that I honestly should be rewarded more

you are a dime a dozen

healers genuinely need special treatment

[subtle warren]

Hey I said healer bots

Oh no would be horrible to have insta qs with evenly matched healers!

Surely no way we can code a bot to hump a pillar and react to big damage with defensives!

Can play 3s with real healers solo
Needs to just be ai

[severe helm]

you should see the AI healers they have for dungeons

when the fights are scripted

blizz just doesnt have the talent lol

[subtle warren]

Idk hire 1 dude

Like it legit just shouldn’t be hard

There’s 0 performance component because of the gcd

I’m not entirely sure someone couldn’t vibe code it at this point

[outer sky]

Its easier in pvp because both sides would have the "healer affix" so ironically it can be balanced there. In pve it couldnt really work as well because you'd be failing scripted content due to a bad AI healer

[severe helm]

both healers being shitty ai doesnt fix the issue haha

[severe helm]

legit bro you could say this for the TONS of things blizzard fails to deliver on

that are far far simpler than an AI pvp bot

[subtle warren]

Ya I’m saying

They’d have to hire

One non-mongoloid

Seems doable in today’s market

But ai PvP bot would be the single best thing for the arena

[spring bough]

DontCast got updated for midnight 🔥

[subtle warren]

Literally instant queues

Idk how that’s not the best thing ever

[stoic spruce]

Fuck it, triple gold/conquest rewards for healers

Ggez

[subtle warren]

Who likes logging in after a nice hard days work to wait 15 min in queue and then a healer goes 0-6

[spring bough]

And give ally ones double that

[stoic spruce]

Give healers a token to buy old elite sets

[subtle warren]

Bro at this point I’d be cool with them venmoing healers irl

[spring bough]

I’d play void disc more then

[subtle warren]

Yeah old elite gear would be gas

[stoic spruce]

For healers only

[potent pivot]

[stoic spruce]

Your reward for being DPS is not having to heal people like me

[spring bough]

Just dps and passive heal as a void disc gg ez money

[stoic spruce]

So many ways to fix it

Doing nothing is the worst thing they could do and they're actively doing that

[spring bough]

Who do we need to pay

To bring back old elite sets

[stoic spruce]

I've no idea

[potent pivot]

Gotta get all the old farts that earned them to shut up

[stoic spruce]

True

[spring bough]

People will always complain 🤷‍♂️

[stoic spruce]

When it comes to stuff like that

The only thing I hate is when they have still currently available cosmetics and then put it in a vendor somewhere out of nowhere

Like the sunflower

There's a questline to earn it or you buy it for like 7 gold right outside Valdrakken

Wtfs the point?

That's like putting lucid nightmare for sale for 300 gold at some random ass vendor

[subtle warren]

I wasn’t playing during s1 tww

And I want the elite weapons sooooooo badly

The white sword is my favorite ever

[potent pivot]

They need to stop all FOMO shit

Only little shit like titles should be fomo

Honor tokens should get reworked and all old fomo rewards be made available from different tokens you earn from wins above X rating

They’ll never do this though, it makes too much sense

[subtle warren]

Honesty making it so you could buy old shit if you reach it on a healer is such a good idea

I would do it just for that

[spring bough]

if any1 is messing with devourer... put /stopmacro [channeling:Void Ray] on your consume and reap macro and youll love life

just spam reap/eradicate while void ray is casting and cast the second its up lol

[potent pivot]

Isn’t this the same thing that your supposed to use on all channels

Eye beam etc

[spring bough]

seems like it had no idea it was a thing lmao

[potent pivot]

Damn lol

It’s good to use on basically every channel

[spring bough]

yeah it makes getting off this reap/eradicate cast too ez

literally sends it the split second that void ray is done casting lol

[bleak quiver]

guys, what would u recommend for dad gamers with the new changes, unholy dk or sub rogue for pvp ?

[sharp sierra]

sub is super easy if you want more control and win cons

uhdk is more chill

[bleak quiver]

thx, whats win cons ??

[stoic spruce]

Dk

For the aura

[potent pivot]

Win conditions

[stoic spruce]

The win conditions you set up for your mage

Mhm mhm

[severe helm]

lol is this a kick tracker?

[spring bough]

its for enemy defensives warning that its up

[severe helm]

oh interesting

dontcast is a misleading name lol

so it tracks enemy defensives?

I thought we just went through this

[spring bough]

most of them but not all

[severe helm]

hahahahaha

this games so scuffed

what a mess

wonder what venruki thinks of all of this

he was so hyped for addons getting "removed"

[spring bough]

"The bad news is Midnight's API changes result in reduced functionality for the addon, it no longer displays the duration and it can no longer be configured to display specific spells - it will trigger for what Blizzard considers major defensives. From my testing (about half a dozen BGs) this largely overlaps with the default buffs this addon displayed before but notably doesn't include pally's bubble or hunter's turtle (I'm hoping Blizzard will eventually update things on their end for these to be considered major defensives)."

from the addon dev in the comments on curse

[severe helm]

yeah makes sense

theres an "important" flag

for defensives

[spring bough]

it used to flash and say what defensive but it doesnt do that anymore lol

[severe helm]

yeah that was the stuff blizz decided was bannable lol

[spring bough]

still nice to have it smack dab center of the screen saying whats up

[severe helm]

oh wow watching some of vens vids sounds like hes also annoyed at how gabage the new UI is

[potent pivot]

[severe helm]

LOL

yeah tell us your thoughts notrickz

[spring bough]

i know u downloading it lmaooo

[severe helm]

what do you think of people being spoon fed information

if its covering the middle of my screen im not downloading it

[spring bough]

miniCC still great too

[severe helm]

sounds fucking annoying

[potent pivot]

Nah I don’t need any scuffed ass WeakAuras I play the game myself

[severe helm]

https://youtu.be/XWrv7cX1KWM?t=202

this moment

is what I think is SO FUCKING DUMB about the new UI shit

I think itll be multiple seasons until peoples UIs are actually fair

someones gona have some unfair tracking thats a secret or some total pain to set up that they dont share

[potent pivot]

I’m disappointed in our community. It’s like they’re all out there on the corners… slangin’ and fien’in for dope… except it’s assholes using AI to code addons and noobs instantly installing them into the mainframes like they’re main lining herron

[severe helm]

hey its pvp everyones looking for a competitive advantage

[potent pivot]

SHAME

[severe helm]

I rarely blame the player for doing what the game incentivizes them to do

[spring bough]

miniCC added a kick timer

[severe helm]

designer problem

[severe helm]

gooooooood

man im gona need so many fucking addons next xpac its gona suck

[spring bough]

its not working too great tho lol

[severe helm]

I already have almost double from tww

[potent pivot]

Be glad I’m not working at blizzard

Half the pvp community would be perm banned already

[severe helm]

instead of fix the problem

idgi

the problem is the game lol

there is no way around it

[potent pivot]

The community is the problem

[severe helm]

yeah goodluck changing that rofl

if youre a game designer you dont ban players until they play the game in the way you want

you fix the fucking game

[potent pivot]

[severe helm]

was really hoping id have to spend less time on my UI in midnight 🙁

[potent pivot]

you see, it's THIS ass backwards thinking that got us into this mess in the first place mewo....

[severe helm]

LOL

[potent pivot]

hahaha

[severe helm]

bro have you been asleep

did you see what they did

they changed the entire addon system

but notrickz

why didnt they just tell the players to stop using addons

and was

that were overpowered

and just ban people who didnt listen?

is that what they should have done?

[potent pivot]

because they would have banned like 90% of their customers

[severe helm]

and

community is the problem

[potent pivot]

rn its prolly closer to 2% using these CHEATS !

[severe helm]

why change the game

[potent pivot]

you gotta know i'm trolling right

[severe helm]

bro I cant even fucking tell anymore lol

[potent pivot]

LMAO

[severe helm]

but genuinely though im still mad at blizzard

for doing such a bad job

I HATE SETTING UP MY UI

so much

[potent pivot]

i've mostly just been joking since the addons are heroin joke

[severe helm]

I hate it so much

I dont want to have to figure out what secret fucking new bullshit addon has found a workaround for tracking something as basic as a kick cd

[proven field]

slowly the power of the all-mighty assa climbs

[molten hedge]

Minicc and sarena get me by fine imo

My friend makes addons and he said basically people are using logic to make these “WAs” by knowing here is a cd with this internal timer knowing Combust for example

[severe helm]

Yeeeeup that's exactly what the mvq addon did

[vale steppe]

I missed the stat descussion, I’ve been following tricks guide on sub, i did end up with a little lower, sweetspot seems to be around 13%, it feels so good. Rest Vers. Running around 46% vers and I’m slapping every single class so far.

Rets go crying, rogue mirrors crying, Sp crying, man everyones crying

[livid cipher]

yikes, yep, it has turned into a constant exploit war between game devs and addon devs

not like anyone didn't know this would happen ofc

but definitely toxic for the players

[sharp sierra]

Key word: exploits

[vocal surge]

Wanna try the no tea build?

[sharp sierra]

Sir I’m about to clock in

But yes send it

I’ll try it when I’m out

[vocal surge]

Only thing left is to reach 35% haste

[gusty hedge]

prepatch

[vale steppe]

Yes on beta you want a bit more haste 👍 otherwise I’m running same stats, Vers -> Haste -> Crit / Mast

[analog tapir]

why not run gouge ?

[vocal surge]

Energy is precious on Outlaw

even with tea, its very energy expensive to press Gouge

compare that to just speccing Airborn Irritant + Blinding Powder on Outlaw

for a shorter CD blind

[analog tapir]

i ment on assa rogue

[vocal surge]

Oh lol

[subtle warren]

The Addon shit sucks

Nonstop bug fixes

Just another arms race

[outer sky]

It definitely seems unnecessary

Although im very glad so far that nobody has replicated omnibar

[vale steppe]

After nerf id say gouge is better tbh

[outer sky]

Thats one i personally thought went too far

But its only a matter of time

If we get all the functions of the old addons and weakauras back anyway

Just let us use the old shit

Like this all just seems so unnecessary

[subtle warren]

the implementation is just so fried

Like idk how the company functions this poorly

[analog tapir]

but i do wounder it feels so slow getting combopoints as assa rogue

atleast in prepatch

[outer sky]

I think a lot of it is blizzard received so much negative feedback that they've intentionally been lenient about what they're allowing. But they dont want to come outright and say that they're walking back on their original decision because if you know blizzard you know they NEVER admit they were wrong about a design philosophy.

So thats causing them to just appear more incompetent than they actually are, which is saying something because they're extremely incompetent

[subtle warren]

That’s probably true

[outer sky]

Idk if you played shadowlands but when the expansion was announced during BFA and they first talked about the Covenant system they said you wouldn't be able to switch covenants and literally EVERYBODY in every facet of the game said for months and months "that is a TERRIBLE idea" but blizzard just leaned into this whole "meaningful choice" bullshit. Well then about a year into the expansion, guess what, blizzard announced you'll be able to switch covenants! But they framed it as "shaking things up" rather than just admitting their initial idea was fried like everyone said it was. The hubris of this company is next level. Like just fucking listen to us the first time.

[grave basin]

zicore will never let the devs let covenants go

[outer sky]

It was just the most blatant example of one of the biggest issues I have with these devs

Ive never seen the playerbase so unanimously against a design as they were against permanent covenants

And the fact that the company ignored that only to change it a year later and never even admit they were wrong is just inexcusable

[grave basin]

it wasnt just that you couldnt switch

it was that they tied it to player power

[outer sky]

Right, it mattered a lot.

And what was BiS changed based on the content you were doing

And they had the audacity to "balance" them after the fact

So your bis could change based on nerfs and buffs

And you'd just be stuck

Like im getting legitimately pissed off just talking about it

[potent pivot]

the funny thing though is that the "bis" difference in covenants was always like 1-2%

[analog tapir]

hi mr assa pro! can u send me ur talents ?

[potent pivot]

people just loved the harp on it because it was the current doom topic

[outer sky]

They're in the pins

[molten hedge]

The “sweet spot” is when you reach 7 sec dance

[analog tapir]

is there a way to play 2 vanishes?

[outer sky]

Of course. You can spec that if you want. Its just not optimal

[subtle warren]

Ya I guess it’s slightly different because it’s a game - but I’ve worked at multiple big software companies and the way they operate just seems so insane to me

I guess the sticky nature of the games grants them more leniency than someone with a non game tech product, but most companies would crumble if they released bugs and bs at this scale

[outer sky]

You mean getting DCd because someone stuns you mid jump isn't peak gameplay?

Actually insane this has been a bug for as long as it has

How is that not top priority to fix

[subtle warren]

Ya and it’s def not hard to fix it’s literally the anti cheat and already been fixed before

Also you know on classic hunters can’t track warriors and shadow priests

For over a year

And people complain every single week

[wise sequoia]

How does the anti cheat work?

Maybe warriors = beasts and shadow priest = demons. Its not a bug, its an easter egg 😉

[keen canopy]

yeah i cant believe thats still in the game surely expansion launch they fix it clueless

[wise breach]

That may have been so in raids, but the utility from the shared covenant ability was massive, and there were definitely cases where the class ability made a huge difference, ER one shotting people at launch, Assa Sepsis in a later patch, etc

That all aside though, I had fun

I made 4 rogues, one for each covenant

[stoic spruce]

I'm telling you

SL with S4 power acquisition was peak WoW

Or would have been if SL launched with all the QoL stuff

[subtle warren]

Anti cheat is the dcs I mean

[stoic spruce]

God I loved SL

[subtle warren]

The client sends a movement opcode right after being cc/rooted whatever instead of acking the cc

And it looks like cheating

But like - that’s existed since the beginning of online gaming

And even in earlier versions of wow

[potent pivot]

idk the utility ones rarely got tuned, if ever

one shots usually lasted like a week

[vale steppe]

Yeah i agree around 13% or maybe even 12 👍

[analog tapir]

i feel like i run out of energy faster as assa

[wise sequoia]

Ahh … so the server kicks us for moving when we should have been CCed. Never seen anyone cheat that way, and I have been around since speed and wall hacking was common.

[molten hedge]

You do. Sub is free energy after using finishers with dance

[stoic spruce]

You're free energy after using finishers

You ever think about that?

[spring bough]

in a few short days we will be returning to silvermoon for a whole xpack

[outer sky]

I actually like that

[spring bough]

who woulda thought

20 years later we return

[outer sky]

Theres so much unused content in this game

Its nice to get some use out of it

[spring bough]

i like that they just updated the pally class mounts

they look pretty sick ngl

[outer sky]

People who play that class dont deserve nice things

[spring bough]

they should update other older models

[outer sky]

We have to wait for it to happen in AWC for them to fix it

[gleaming sentinel]

They need to revamp Vashjir, go ahead go to the ruins area and tell Me that’s not fucking sick looking

[spring bough]

id love tier 3 to have updated modern models

that would be pretty sick ngl

maybe thunderfury too

[outer sky]

https://tenor.com/view/world-of-warcraft-warcraft-thunderfury-wow-mine-gif-27449908

[molten hedge]

someday

i have 1 binding on like 7 alts lol

i just got this set after mage tower and thought itd look sick w/ tfury

[spring bough]

took me 2 MC clears to get thunderfury

[grave basin]

cow sisters

https://x.com/bicmex/status/2024867893071040526

Bicmex (@bicmex)

@MyranSSB @Raiku_Wow kul tiran vs high mountain tauren, exact same gear on both

X · Feb 20, 2026, 3:25 PM

[spring bough]

LOL

That racial looking kinda hot oh my

[dark kernel]

Rogue alt time

[spring bough]

Already got a high mountain leveled up

Time to make it sub 😂

[dark kernel]

I'm going to race swap

[spring bough]

Bout to be a straight up menace with it 😂

Ty legion remix lol

[sharp sierra]

Undead better get some love since we’re over there haha

[jolly sierra]

for me is the opposite

tbh

[molten hedge]

What are we saying

Idk about the diff

Is legion one called emanation of the winds?

@ornate quiver can I get it still and mog it on sub

[subtle warren]

How?

And what dictates the color

So where do you get the initial appearance?

Sorry I know I can google all this but working

Ohh okay

Damn 1% drop rate in dungeons?