pvp

[potent pivot]

and honestly

[severe helm]

AND HE SHARED IT

[potent pivot]

if you really think i'm being serious when i say ban him

you gotta be dumb

[severe helm]

I dont think you are

I think some people are serious though

[subtle warren]

They’re jsur complete idiots the way they handle everything

[severe helm]

cuz they are dumb

[potent pivot]

i just don't like him lmao

[severe helm]

sure hes a total dick

[potent pivot]

kind of a rat

[severe helm]

1000% agree haha

but thats not bannable

if being a rat was bannable wed lose half the bracket

[potent pivot]

lets lose it then

[severe helm]

hahaha

[sharp sierra]

Im not trying to argue, i personally believe its an exploit abusing despite blizzard having bad obfuscation

But in any other game thats a bannable offense and I mean you are purposely circumventing the intended limitations blizzard put in themselves

if Im trying to dump a game and playerpos is hidden and i run it through reclass to find it thats a bannable offense

But on your end saying it shouldnt be bannable i can understand it just because this is all so new

and blizzard is dumb and has no clear guidelines yet

[severe helm]

yeah but youre getting into line in the sand territory

[sharp sierra]

Thats fair ill agree with that

different background with game hacking

[severe helm]

and I think punishment when youre in that area is kind of very slippery slope

[sharp sierra]

Since the api is imposed for use

yeah ill argee with that

[severe helm]

I just think from the perspective of how well this could have gone its pretty optimal

compared to other things you might consider "exploits" from the past

that are often hidden and used during actual competitive play

[sharp sierra]

Who knows how many more exploits are floating around right now

Half the cheats for wow are using shit anyways so if anything maybe this will bring more light to the subject

since lua unlockers are dead

[severe helm]

for reference

blizz literally

provides this

I know im just debating where the line is in the sand at this point

but what were they thinking

when they made it this easy I really just cant blame anyone other than the boys in blue

[subtle warren]

I think they’re just shot from trying to maintain 28 versions of the game

Remember these are the people who literally accidentally let juiced up SOD characters into an anniversary realm AV

Like you have to be so fucked up process wise to let that happen

[severe helm]

Yeah this is definitely a case of overworked and under resourced

higher ups made promises and dumped it on the devs

its the story of a lot of companies

[outer sky]

Maybe there shouldn't be 8 different versions of the game all active at the same time

[subtle warren]

Ya but also not the devs choice

Daddy warbucks wants max subs

[sharp sierra]

nuh uh always blame the devs!

[subtle warren]

Oh I know how true that is 😂

But tbh game companies are known for poor work life balance, and Blizz was double acquired

[sharp sierra]

I say we let BSG (tarkov) devs run WoW. then i can have chams and fly around

[subtle warren]

They’re probably so farmed in that office

[sharp sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/tarkov-dma-memory-write-speedhack-gif-18223708353668684179

me if bsg devs were on wow team

[sharp sierra]

i wonder how many chains of command they have to go through to add a single space

[potent pivot]

You see how that shit says secret? That means you’re not sposed’ta know about it dummy

[sharp sierra]

no more we just got past this and back on solid ground

https://tenor.com/view/beer-craft-beto-whirpool-happy-gif-12502711

in other news besides mw being uber broken do we think sub will play good with them in 2s? buddy coming back this expac

or should i just play mage with him

[subtle warren]

Only issue would maybe be the cc overlap?

Monks have stun and incap?

Does monk incap Dr with gouge/sap or blind I forget

Blind is with fears yeah?

[potent pivot]

They’ve also launched multiple out of date PTR cycles into the live game

[hybrid sapphire]

uhh since when do draenei get to be demon hunters lmfao

[potent pivot]

Like wat

[subtle warren]

Ya

From an engineering qa standpoint I’m regularly shocked with what comes out of Blizz

Truly

[potent pivot]

I don’t think the different versions of the game matter

As far as dev workload goes

Since they’re all separate teams no?

[subtle warren]

Idk how they organize but even if they’re separate teams, it’s still split manpower

And they’re probably not split teams tbh

[potent pivot]

There’s a classic team and a retail team

The classic team is just much smaller

There’s also a team specifically for seasonal event content like Remix etc

[subtle warren]

Yeah classic team is probably understaffed like hell

[potent pivot]

They are for sure

They’ve said as much

[subtle warren]

I mean I’m not sure every version gets an entire team to itself

There’s prob some overlap for parts of it

I mean there just has to be because they share infra dev tools etc etc

[potent pivot]

Ye

[subtle warren]

Idk but regardless I’m sure theyre understaffed

And could probs use a trimming of products

[potent pivot]

Sometimes you need work done by X team regardless of what version you are working on

[subtle warren]

Yup

[potent pivot]

Like art team etc

[subtle warren]

And like, even maintaining legacy assets can be a lot of work

Ex classic team doesn’t have to innovate on content but all of a sudden Apple switches from intel to apple silicon

[outer sky]

We need to see how hard tomorrow's MW nerfs hit them

Some people are saying they're huge

Others saying its not a big deal

[molten hedge]

I sure hope so bc fuck its ridic

[sharp sierra]

yeah but im hoping they dont dump them forever like they usually do

im fine with the nerf its needed

#BringBackFistWeaving

[outer sky]

Its crazy how busted mw is

[sharp sierra]

fistweaving in this demonlock/uhdk meta oh my god i would nut

[molten hedge]

it feels like we do the perfect go ppl should be dead to rights then theyre completely fine lmfao

[stiff cedar]

we just logged off queueing tn and we literally have a 100% win rate into non MW teams

and then like 50/50 into the mw

[molten hedge]

idk how substantial that is

[sharp sierra]

ill still probablyu only play disc for healer

[molten hedge]

300% nerf on the renewing mist seems big

[sharp sierra]

unless fistweaving ever comes back

its a big nerf but it was gigabroken

[subtle warren]

On beta?

[outer sky]

Porting while stunned is also cringe af

[sharp sierra]

do we have any hope for sin

[stiff cedar]

we're just queueing prepatch cause i'm too lazy to set up another client with 10 days til early access

[outer sky]

No lol

[sharp sierra]

[subtle warren]

Anyone have an idea into the main sub comps?

[potent pivot]

Yes it’s op

[subtle warren]

Rmp? Something rogue lock or rogue hunter?

[outer sky]

Sub/arcane RMP is what im gunna try and play

[subtle warren]

Trying to figure out what my friend should make

Anything other than mage?

[potent pivot]

sub/dev

[sharp sierra]

carry me on mage

[outer sky]

I can't play mage

[stiff cedar]

sub dev is pretty crazy, destro is also pretty damn good

[sharp sierra]

ill play it

silly

[potent pivot]

if sub/dev does not dominate the entire expansion then they are off-theme

[molten hedge]

@stiff cedar

[outer sky]

But I can barely carry myself

[sharp sierra]

damn really dev?

[potent pivot]

devourer

[stiff cedar]

dh

dev dh

[sharp sierra]

oh

[potent pivot]

they just HAD to name another spec devo

like wtf

[outer sky]

Destro lock too

[subtle warren]

So for dev/lock/mage, would any of those 3 be the usual kill target? Over the rogue

[potent pivot]

dev and lock

[subtle warren]

My first season of 3s tbh I don’t want to be kill target all the time

[outer sky]

People consider sub rogues unkillable for some reason

[subtle warren]

Yeha why is that?

[potent pivot]

cuz ur immortal

[subtle warren]

I guess with 2 vanish?

[potent pivot]

dance itself

[outer sky]

Other rogues think theyre easy to kill because we just need their trinket and we can kill them in a stun. But for any class that doesnt kill in a stun, sub rogues can be live lords

[subtle warren]

Tru makes sense

Okay I’m playing with a lock then

[outer sky]

Im kinda hoping we eventually end up playing deathstalker

Deathstalker sub

[subtle warren]

Does it even feel different?

[outer sky]

Gets do many shadowsteps

[subtle warren]

Ah yeah

That would be nice

[molten hedge]

the unseeen blade animation is pissing me off

[potent pivot]

you mean coup?

or

[molten hedge]

Yeah

[outer sky]

I dont know why they dont just change that

Its so unnecessary

[molten hedge]

yea its cost me a lot of games missing the restun

[outer sky]

Is it a buff? Lol maybe you just make a macro:

"/cancelaura coup de grace
/cast eviscerate"

And put that on your eviscerate keybind

[molten hedge]

Comps like uhdk sp mw and demo frost mw make me wanna kms rn lol

[molten hedge]

Maybe lol

[outer sky]

Or shit on pre patch maybe just dont even spec into coup

Put the talent somewhere else

[molten hedge]

Yeah maybe so tbh

[potent pivot]

nop

[potent pivot]

no shot

thats going too far

[molten hedge]

I’m going to black powder > coup pog

[severe helm]

tbh on outlaw since they changed how flawless form stacks work, coup value is extremely low

sub seems like theres no way though

[wise sequoia]

Mystical said that renewing is usually doing around 30% of his overall healing.

This cuts renewing mist healing on lowest target from 500% increased (600% total) to 200% increased (so 300% total) - or you know ... cuts it in half.

If you want to doom as much as possible, thats a 15% healing nerf. But only on lowest target. And only on pad healing, which makes other spells overheal more.

I think its like a 10%ish nerf, and will mostly affect the "team is always at max hp" feeling, not the ability to recover with Sheiloons gift for example.

Also, this "10% nerf" assumes that they dont take any better talents. Going mistline was kinda costly, and is now less required.

TLDR: mistweaver is 100% fine. Damage buffs are nice. Maybe they are no longer S+, but still much better than rdruid, rshaman and pres!

[outer sky]

Get this kind of negativity the fuck outa here

MW is dead

[wise sequoia]

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if the mistline change is only a 5% nerf once you consider better talents and that it only nerfs healing on the lowest health target.
Makes MW playstyles much more flexible as well.
Either way MW can easily lose 5-10% and compete with every other healer ... except maybe pala which is also getting nerfed.

[outer sky]

Yeah Sheiloons is what needed a nerf

[wise sequoia]

Much more worrying are the disc priest buffs! PLEASE NO!

[outer sky]

At least disc can die if you get their trinket and pain supps

MW is immune to death

Wtb rsham or pres meta

[wise sequoia]

I think that monk/both priest specs are looking very good for next patch. Not sure if pala nerf was overkill, but my guess is their damage and cooldowns will carry.

Rsham/rdruid/pres suck. Give them all a 20% buff to all healing please.

[outer sky]

Rdruid is great right now. Every time ive seen one ive just been able to run him down and kill him in the 2nd stun DR

[wise sequoia]

Dont care.
Buff rdruid!
(<— rdruid main)

[outer sky]

Rdruid does keep the affi locks in check

I just made a post on the forums bitching about our absolutely trash tier pvp talents

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/revisit-rogue-pvp-talents/2253224

Hopefully gets some attention

Theyre so bad

[hybrid sapphire]

what would be an ideal pvp talent @outer sky

[wise sequoia]

Ahh yes. The spec that has everyone shaking in their boots 😛

meanwhile hpal can AOE cleanse whole team every 12s and monk has full party clear and magic immunity with revival.

Aff monks are noot looking too good. Unstable affliction is such a unreliable spender.

[outer sky]

Something like "targets stunned by your cheap shot or kidney shot take X% increased damage from you every second they remain stunned" would giga reward you for not leaving a gap

Like make it stacking

Every second during the stun

[hybrid sapphire]

oh shit im pogging

[wise sequoia]

Shadowy duel 😛

srsly though, I do like active abilities or impactful buffs for pvp talents. Dismantle and smoke bomb are fun. Subterfuge would be cool if it wasnt on the class tree.

Maybe buff some of the others - death from above more range and faster GCD and CC immunity in air would be wild. Shadowstep to allies incur no cooldown.

[outer sky]

That last one would be broken af

[wise sequoia]

Ferals can clear all root/snares twice per gcd with no cooldown

Would rely on teamwork!

[outer sky]

Shadowy duel would also make a good pvp talent. They didnt have to remove it. It was a cool design it just needed to be reworked so it would function as healer CC and not something you could use to global someone

Make it so the dueled target is immune to damage

There

Thats literally it

Still really good

[hybrid sapphire]

they should bring back snare supression on sprint somehow

[sharp sierra]

i wonder if they are just going to leave sub as the best spec the entire expac like they did with sin

[outer sky]

I think sprint should just clear roots as part of its baseline effect ngl

[wise sequoia]

How about: your cheap shots no longer put target on stun dr or is affected by stun dr, but cooldown increased to 30s.

Just brainstorming ^^

[outer sky]

Lol cheap>kidney every 30s

9s stun

[wise sequoia]

Still too much.

[outer sky]

I do think a 1s stun like warlock infernal stun that doesnt DR could make a good talent

[wise sequoia]

Is only usable once per shadowdance/vanish 😛

very akward

[hybrid sapphire]

i guess but theyd just be reapplied immediately like 75% of the time

[outer sky]

I think my ideas are peak design

[outer sky]

I really like this one. Its an idea ive had for a long time

[wise sequoia]

I like designing magic items for dnd that sounds OP but are really hard to make useful ^^

[wise sequoia]

It would for sure be real neat. Could even function similar to touch of the magi.

Requiring a full no gap stunlock just sounds a bit unreasonable with their code.

But I do like the idea of rewarding playing correctly.

[outer sky]

It would also be more engaging on the other end. Someone sitting a stun thinking "do i trinket early? The longer I sit this the more damage I take. Risk it? Trinket early?"

[wise sequoia]

Or something like: after applying crowd control to a target, you do 10% more damage to all other targets for 6s.

[outer sky]

Yeah or even

"While one target is under the effects of blind or kidney shot, all damage done to any other target is increased by 10%"

But i still like my 1st idea

[wise sequoia]

Do both 😉

[wanton breach]

[outer sky]

me and the hunter went 4-2 other rogues went 2-4

[silent linden]

What’s your burst rotation on kill target opening?
You open with full combo kidney and then dance or cheap shot from stealth then dance?

[outer sky]

Build combo points with shadowstrike then spend them on eviscerate unless secret technique is off CD, then spend them on that. And do that while keeping the target stunned.

[silent linden]

Yeah but it’s preferred kidney then cheap to get the most stun possible?
I’m new to pvp and trying to figure out the best outcome.
DR is a pain..

[grave basin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q175J6FZOgk

do you guys temper with nvidea settings?

what do you have DV at generally

[molten hedge]

I have a multi r1 friend who has gotten r1 on mw and this was his response to yours. So it makes me feel a lot better bc he plays the class at a very high level as well as every healer.

They still have low cd on cocoon and sheiluns so I’m sure they’ll be good but hopefully they can be pressured more bc they don’t have the whole team topped all game now

[lusty forum]

@dark kernel so you think I should change The Rotten for shadowcraft ?

[dark kernel]

There are just some other already made specs in the sticky that work real well and we already know how we're going to modify them with new talents. Just grab one and take a look and compare

Go look in #pvp

I don't know how to show the pins but it's in the pins

[vocal surge]

sadge

All the tourneys are being hosted on EU

[lusty forum]

Okay I will check that

[wise sequoia]

Yeah it is a sizeable nerf … but also largely to a toxic playstyle. Keep renewing on all targets and then the game will automatically respond to the enemy team and heal 600% on their target.

But if the 30% from mystical is accurate then it can at most be a 15% nerf, if:

• renewing mist is only active on your lowest health ally - other renewing mists aren’t affected.
• the talents have to still be optimal even after the nerf - otherwise you can somewhat circumvent the nerf by just ignoring mistline.
• you actually needed all the mistline healing, and it didn’t just make you push fewer buttons, since everyone is healthy anyways.

Everyone of these points are false to some extent, making the nerf smaller than the aforementioned 15%.

I would argue that besides being toxic to play against (having the game game counter every go automatically) it also has a negative impact on the monks enjoyment. Less build flexibility and not having to use your kit besides renewing mist is very dull.

But it is possible that Mistline is the sole reason MW was S tier, and it could now drop as far down as low A.

The mistweaver pvp discussion on this discord is more active the entire pvp section on the monk discord ^^

[graceful plume]

No one cares about your mistweaver shit

[vocal surge]

I care

[dark kernel]

I have a buddy who is fucking goated player. He has a glad on every healer except MW because it's just perpetually in the gutter and that's his MAIN.

[grave basin]

i care

[grave basin]

other class discords are really deadge or theyre hybrid specs with only 1 pvp channel

[dark kernel]

We got the roguetism here

[grave basin]

💀

do not look at hunter discord

all the diehard mm since vanila mains that played tww s3 are gone

sarcasm btw

warrior discord is just half whining half gymposting tbf

yea idk whats with blizzard nerfing arms

[jolly sierra]

huh

[vocal surge]

Dont forget all the Warriors are wanna-be Garrosh fans

[dark kernel]

I miss TBC hunter using viper sting and auto attacking mostly

I played a drain comp as my alt LMAO

[grave basin]

meanwhile theyre all forced to play gnome

[dark kernel]

I actually WISH my warrior was gnome

Gnome is so fucking fun

[grave basin]

tbc hunter could be played on a mouse wheel

not sure why youd enjoy that

when youre an outlaw fan

[dark kernel]

Old pvp was like chess

[grave basin]

it was more like

[dark kernel]

I was always playing with my best friends so nostalgia

[grave basin]

45min damp fests in 2s

[dark kernel]

Hemo rogue is also my favorite

[grave basin]

i mean timeout fest

[dark kernel]

I only played Rogue Mage for 2s

I watched my 2 irl friends play an 8 hour SL lock/druid mirror

Like 8 actual hours

Bathroom rotations

They lost

[grave basin]

[dark kernel]

I told them to just leave after 20 mins

[livid grove]

So I suk pretty bad but id like to break 1800 this season. I'm trying to figure out the 80/20 to get better quickly. So, can you guys help me fill out the biggest thing to focus on in:
1500 bracket =
1700 bracket =
1800 bracket =
1900 - 2000 bracket =

[lime oar]

manage dr’s

cc healer

dmg kill tgt

profit

[cobalt vector]

Going to level up my first rogue after playing on and off since TBC. Are there any good YouTubers/streamers to watch and learn from? I usually main feral with arms as my main alt, but they massacred my boy and I don’t vibe with caster play

[grave basin]

getting to 1800 is legit just do your pve rotation

and dont line your healer

[severe helm]

Depends on your spec

[dark kernel]

Right now pretty much nobody is streaming

Hell I'm about to start booting up my stream again at night just because

[grave basin]

trimaz

akrololz

nahj

[dark kernel]

Nahj, Val, Dazed....pika pretty much everyone is afk til Midnight

[cobalt vector]

Gotcha. I know sub is preferred right now, but out of the three which one is the most fun?

[grave basin]

that's .. really subjective..

na down for another hour

ofc

[wise sequoia]

beta is up

[subtle warren]

I have what I think is a really good methodical approach for this. I just did it myself starting from complete scratch (barely played arena since 2009 and never played a melee class). Give me an hour to get home and I’ll write it up

[jolly sierra]

you cant LFG here xd

[outer sky]

0-1800

Know your pve dps rotation. I cannot overstate how many games you’ll win (especially in shuffle) by just doing a 90%+ optimal pve rotation.

I can’t count the number of vod reviews I’ve done and someone is regularly CCing themselves for 3+ seconds every 10 or so seconds by stutter stepping or not pressing a button.

Those extra globals REALLY add up over the course of the game and set the enemy team behind and not using them allows the healer to catch up or play aggressive.

18-2100

Stun the healer when pressing your CDs and try to get cc on the healer off dr. Again, I know it sounds easy, but I promise you’re not doing it as often as you think. Can’t begin to tell you how many times I see dps run in and press everything and the healer just casually uses a cd and you waste your entire burst without creating any win conditions.

Similarly, use your defensives when the other team uses CDs to give your healer space and breathing room and use them high. Knowing what defensives to use vs what CDs is very important!

21-2400

Cross cc. Again, seemingly basic concept, but there isn’t a single comp in the game that can’t create some kind of 3v0 situation and a win condition. Use your cc with your team to stop the enemy team from healing and start killing people. You’ll see a massive difference in gamestate when you start crossing better.

2400-r1

Positioning. I cannot stress how important this is and how much you dont realize you’re making things easier for the enemy team and harder for yours just by where you stand and how you move. The best advice for this is to watch your games back, bonus points if you can get the game from your healer’s pov (or even play a healer to better understand).

The difference between a gladiator and r1 shuffle cd trading is basically nonexistent. The positioning is what REALLY separates them.

all ratings

Be kind to others and ask for help. You’d be AMAZED at how much you can learn if you’re just friendly to other people and talk about games after the fact!

[topaz glen]

know anywhere I can? Cant find the nightslayer discord link for some reason

[jolly sierra]

ingame

almost nobody pvp and its a very newcomer hostile envirioment

ofc ppl will be nervous xd

[wise sequoia]

Likewise for healers the simple way to climb to 2400 is:

Position defensively and do your PvE rotation. Its really hard to kill people with a PvE healer on them, and its really hard to CC a well positioned healer.

As a rdruid main I know that basically all melees in game can only reach you at 30yards ... many only at 25. Deathknights have to choose between long grip and asphyxiate, so usually just stay outside of 30y and they cant grip you. All casted CC should be lined.

Watch AWC and every CC on enemy healer becomes a team effort.

Almost every healer in shuffle is frustrated that they can't force wins, so they push in and try to make plays. This is a mistake in 85% of cases, as they just expose themselves without forcing anything meaningful.

[dark kernel]

Watching rank1s play is always eye opening to see how they're almost all always in the right spot and game movement just flows like water

[outer sky]

I remember one time i faked a priests death so he melded to try and avoid my blind so I just sapped him off of that and then blinded him lol sick play dumbass

[coral void]

yeah but they usually don't have their dps overextend or let the enemy rdps stand in between you and them

playing healer even at 2.3-2.4k mmr trying to pve-heal its mind-boggling how many dps are still unaware of the LoS and wether im in CC or not.

so i'd sad if you do your pve rotation, use cc on cd, mind the LoS and healer in CC you should be golden 🙏

[wise sequoia]

My biggest reason for loving rdruid is the mobility ... I'm fast enough to take the long safe route when melees overextend. The issue where casters get in between you and the DPS can often be solved by:

• Pillar - one side is always lining the caster but you can still see your dps
• CC caster and reposition

[dark kernel]

This is slick as fuck

[coral void]

thats obvious, and we mustnt start discussing specific situations with ms paint floor plans now. im just saying even at 2.4 dps will be zug zug brained and sometimes give you a hard time

[molten hedge]

That’s sick. I’ve sapped a few hunters that feigned for fun sometimes for giggles

[wise sequoia]

My experience in sub 2400 lobbies is for sure that healers spend a ridiculous amount of time standing in the open for no reason. A big reason for this is that DPS are not good enough to spot and punish it.

Even lots of great players and streamers make this mistake regularly.

Any decently balanced healer can reach 2400 by just hugging pillars, trading cooldowns reactively and doing their single target PvE rotation.

But I also agree that DPS can make this REALLY hard on you

I used to play ret-warrior with 2 of my friends ... they would tunnel whoever was on the far side of opposite pillar, turning every match into a 2v3

and there was no safe spot

My first shuffle game in the season was a hunter who was used to dueling and would kite the warrior perfectly ... to the opposite end of the arena so I couldnt reach both team mates no matter where I stood

But still ... play well and these outliers wont matter

[hazy monolith]

hugging pillars as healer in shuffle?

good one

[coral void]

hence if the guy asking how to improve as a dps will mind whats with and where his healer is, he'll die less :>

[wise sequoia]

Its really not that hard. The only time this isn't possible is if either:

• DPS are clumped >45y from a pillar (ruins of lordearon or corner of TolVir)
• The other healer has claimed the pillar and you would be at a disadvantage being close to them.

Poeple reactively leave the pillar to get a better view of the fight with more space around them ... but they really don't have to very often. If dps pull away, then run straight for another pillar.

[severe helm]

yeah

until

your dipshit warrior

holds W

chasing the hunter around hte pillar

24/7

[subtle warren]

@livid grove Everything he said is correct on a macro level - I basically just follow that exact same template from 0 - 2300. However, I broke it down even more granularly because I found that trying to do everything at once made it hard to get near perfect at everything.
0-1800 : I legit didn't worry about pressing cc at all (a tiny bit but not unless it was easy and obvious) and just tried to pump as much damage as possible. You don't realize how many mistakes you can make like backstabbing with max combo points, wasting energy on cheap when they're dr'd, hitting targets with defensives up, not using dance, using shadow technique outside of dance etc etc. I just straight up PVE'd and then would review after every game.

1800-2000: I started introducing the cc's 1 at a time. Like legit didn't use blind or kidney at first. I just continued to pve but starting using focus step + kick. I'd try to use it intermittently but also right before I was about to do a go. This get's you used to watching a focus bar, and quickly adjusting your position back to your target after the shadowstep

2000-2300: I added in blind + kidney. Now that i was comfortable with a focus I continued to kick, but started to swap to important dps casts like chaos bolts and stuff. When I was about to do a go, I would try and position myself near the healer or step to them and hit them with a full kidney, continue hitting my target and then blind the healer at the end of that. YOu can even look to sap out of that etc etc etc.

Of course during all of this you want to use smoke bomb at the proper times, either to save yourself or get a kill, disarm melee during their go's etc. But I REALLY think following the steps are just mentioned will help you.

TLDR
step 1: PVE perfectly
step 2: kick focus
step 3: full cc chain on focus (healer)

[severe helm]

healing in shuffle feels like taking 5 year olds to disneyworld and trying to keep track of them

[livid grove]

You guys are gamers. Thanks for the rad suggestions

[wise sequoia]

As a parent to a 4 and 6 year old I couldn't agree more xD

I regularly position in the spot that allows me line of sight to both ... and it changes rapidly

[severe helm]

theyre both actively trying to los you and get themselves into trouble

[wise sequoia]

But still I manage ... most of the time 🙂

Both in game and in real life.

[sharp sierra]

More reasons not to have kids

[outer sky]

I took my 4 to Disney world once and i spent the entire time slamming beers so my wife basically had to keep track of the kids and of me because I was probably more likely to get into trouble than any of them lmfao

Great memories though

The little I do remember

[hazy monolith]

i have 2.4xp on healer and its rarely the case that ur dps allow you to

[outer sky]

Depends on what you mean by "mandatory"

[molten hedge]

I just switched to 123 binds for all cc it’s sick

Except cheap and kidney I left those on focus

[outer sky]

Sick until you do something outside the arena*

[molten hedge]

Lmfao

Good thing I don’t 😂

[wise sequoia]

/use [@arena1,exists][harm] blind

🙂

[molten hedge]

Ty ik there was a fix for that

I’ll put that into all mine

[wise sequoia]

It fails in BGs where flag carriers are arena1 😛

[outer sky]

Theres always something

[molten hedge]

I wonder if my UI bugs out and I can’t use arena 123 will it automatically ignore the 123 and use my ability on my target

[outer sky]

Youre probably fine

[molten hedge]

123 is optimal bc you don’t have to change focus ever. But focus works fine for most ppl. I’ve played a lot of casters so I’m just more used to 123 is all

[outer sky]

What matters is that you can step kick

Doesn't matter much how you accomplish it

Not like the lockout is any shorter

Im personally of the opinion that macros is the #1 thing people waste time worrying about

[molten hedge]

I don’t have an mmo mouse nor do I use alt modifiers. 🐐

[outer sky]

Ive said that many times

[molten hedge]

Yeah if the macros are comfortable it doesn’t even matter

Whaazz has the most dogshit macros I’ve ever seen

Doesn’t matter lol

[outer sky]

Ive seen pika win 2700 shuffle lobbies drinking a whiteclaw with 1 hand and clicking all of his buttons with the other. It literally doesn't fucking matter

[molten hedge]

Lmfaooo

[outer sky]

Then let that be why you use something. Because you feel like you need it to do something. Not because its "mandatory" on paper

[sharp sierra]

Ever since I first played the game I never understood how people use 1234 for main keybinds. They are my util buttons everything else is on qertfg with shift modifier

Feels so uncomfortable to spam number keys for main rotation

[hazy monolith]

i neither have an mmo mouse but 2 thumb buttons that i use with ctrl, alt, shift and right alt (bound to left side of the keyboard)

the whole core rotation is on these combinations

[outer sky]

Hey guys, so I've been stuck at 1400cr for the last like 7 seasons and I've tried all sorts of different macros but I still can't hit Challenger so I think maybe my keyboard is the problem. Can anyone recommend me one that the rank 1s use? Budget is $20. Thanks!

[hazy monolith]

also all modifiers + mouse wheel click

[wise sequoia]

Its because your class sucks. Go pala

[molten hedge]

Same. I’m left handed so I hate using my mouse even more

I tried an mmo with rotation on 1234 my hand cramped so badly lol

I’ve been playing some demo it’s pretty dumb even in melee lobbies I was winning around 2400mmr never played it

If it’s any solace, playing it is as annoying as playing against it lol

[sharp sierra]

It’s from the classic days where pressing 1234 had a delay of 500 hours between each global do they got used it

(Im hating)

[molten hedge]

I never played classic hahah

Started in df s4

[subtle warren]

bro right this shit is literally insane 😂

dudes spamming 4 + shift 2 all game for backstab and evis

i'd have carpal tunnel in 5 shuffles

[wanton breach]

my core abilities are usually Q 3 F and some mouse buttons for aoe, E for kick

[sharp sierra]

E for kick?!?!

[outer sky]

I use a 12 button gaming mouse and I couldn't imagine playing the game without it

[sharp sierra]

i need an fps mouse for OW/Val/Cs/etc so i cant really use one

[wanton breach]

yeah I'm using WAD for movement

I think there even was some rap song about this famous keybinding combination

[proven field]

shift-mouse wheel for kick

QEFG with shift modifiers, 1-6, and 5 button mouse with shift modifiers

[molten hedge]

Statistically 85-90% of the population is right handed, so it makes sense that most wow players use mmo mice

It’s really uncomfortable for most lefties

[severe helm]

I mean

most of your hotkeys are on your left hand still

[molten hedge]

I also use ESDF for movement unlike most ppl. I have big hands and it’s more comfortable as well as allows me to use YHB comfortably

[severe helm]

just as right handed people can use their left hand for hotkeys

left handed people can learn to use their thumb for an mmo mouse

without an mmo mouse, wow is pretty much a left handed game

[molten hedge]

Yeah it’s possible but it’s just uncomfortable

[severe helm]

and people get by just fine

[molten hedge]

My mouse does have 5 buttons so I don’t wanna make it seem like I’m using an FPS mouse lol

It just doesn’t have 12 buttons

[severe helm]

I think the biggest thing people neglect is modifiers

[outer sky]

It shouldn't matter which hand you assign which job because until you actually start playing neither hand knows how to do either function (mouse or keyboard), right?

[severe helm]

Id hope your right hand knows how to use a keyboard haha

[outer sky]

Well you know what I mean

[molten hedge]

Yeah and I’m newer to the game and didn’t play pc or many games before starting wow in DF. So I just did what was comfortable not knowing WASD and mmo mouse was bis

[outer sky]

Like if neither hand knows how to use an mmo mouse then why would it matter which one you make do it

[molten hedge]

And it works so all good 👍🏼

[severe helm]

well you learn faster on your dominant hand

cuz that hand has more inherent dexterity

[molten hedge]

I met a guy once who said he used IJKL right side of the keyboard

Also met a huntard who had every bind on his mmo mouse with every modifier

[molten hedge]

I think he means why can’t I just get a left handed mmo mouse

[severe helm]

dyllbar uses his arrow keys

[molten hedge]

And the reason for that is because I’ve used computers my entire life and used a right handed mouse

[severe helm]

left hand

so his binds are like on his numpad and shit

multi r1 rsham

[molten hedge]

Lul that’s funny

Yeah man I was in Whaazz stream once and he was going over his binds. Theyre subjectively horrendous lol

Whole chat was flaming him

He was like what do you mean Control U is a bad bind?

[molten hedge]

That name reminds me of a really good Mediterranean restaurant in Atlanta called Delbar lmaoo

Dyllbar sounds like he worked for a bank or insurance company or a call center steady using the number pad

[outer sky]

Idk i feel like a lot of this stuff is psychological. Like, if you think of something like a strings section in an orchestra, statistically some of those people have to be left handed. But they all still play right handed because esthetically it looks better to have everyone's instruments canted in the same direction and also to have everyone's bows moving the same way. But the lefties still play just as well as the righties

[molten hedge]

Ya bro us lefties gotta overcome a lot of shit 😉

[severe helm]

yeah thats another good example

cuz like you obv use both hands

"left handed guitar" was always funny to me

cuz like both ways are left handed haha

[outer sky]

Yeah and no other stringed instrument player claims they need a "left handed instrument" if they're left handed

[severe helm]

I mean guitar and bass players sometimes insist on it

[wise sequoia]

Honestly, as a right handed person, why is my left hand doing all the heavy lifting on guitar? strumming is relatively simple

[outer sky]

I know

Theyre the only ones

[severe helm]

dpeends what kinda music you play

do some bluegrass and flat picking

[outer sky]

You'd never hear a violinist say they need a left handed violin

[severe helm]

and your right hand goes crazy

or finger picking classical stuff

flamenco

very right hand dominant

[severe helm]

yeah I think thats partly the traditionalist nature of those instruments

[wise sequoia]

Another thing I have wondered about ... why are ice hockey sticks swung from left towards right? opposite of all other "primary hand" sports like baseball

[severe helm]

its the same

wdym

left hand is closer to the end of the stick

just like golf or baseball

I mean there are switch hitters obv in both

but its the same afaik

[wise sequoia]

If you wanna swing at a bassball you position yourself so the ball gets hit towards your non dominant hand - right handed people swing from right shoulder towards left.

Ice hockey sticks are opposite

[wise sequoia]

Its the opposite of golf sticks

[severe helm]

its the same

[wise sequoia]

I think that stick is unusual - walking through Toronto I see sticks often and 90% of them are opposite of that photo

[severe helm]

your dominant/rear hand is always further down the stick

[wise sequoia]

Agreed

Should be

The majority of pictures on google are this way:

Also the curve on all sticks I have seen supports this

[outer sky]

No no no let me explain this

[severe helm]

thats just a left handed player haha

hes still hitting it normally

rear hand further down the stick

so theres actually an interesting fact here

[wise sequoia]

My kid goes to school where they have 12 sticks in the court yard ... all of them except one is for "left handers" then

[severe helm]

bilateralization(the act of having a dominant hand) is actually very even in nature for creatures that have bilateralization

and in humans its not

cuz we have a lot of shared tools

EXCEPT

in professional sports

where its actually an advantage to be non dominant

[outer sky]

The reason the hockey stick seems "backwards" is because the players dominant hand is usually higher up on the stick. But thats actually normal. When you swing a baseball bat, your dominant hand is closer to the hilt. It adds control. The hockey stick is the same way, its just facing down instead of up like a baseball bat

[severe helm]

cuz youre rarer stastically

so you actually see closer to 50% left vs right hand in sports like baseball

due to the competitive advantage

I did a small paper on this in college haha

[severe helm]

its not though

oh you mean "higher

cuz they hold the stick down

[outer sky]

Yes

[severe helm]

its the same as golf though

and still technically the same as baseball

in golf though you dont see as many switch hitters as baseball or hockey

[outer sky]

Idk anything about golf other than the windmill always trips me up

[severe helm]

for the reason I just said since its not a "combat" sport

they all hold the stick the same

rear hand is further towards the striking end of the stick

[sharp sierra]

Non dominant hands typically get used for more precision

It just depends on the application

[outer sky]

The point is, being left handed doesn't keep you from using an mmo mouse

[severe helm]

yeah funny enough most peoples non dominant side is stronger

[outer sky]

I think thats been established

[severe helm]

cuz its usually the "stabilizer" side

like when you kick a soccer ball you lean on your left side

[molten hedge]

Agree to disagree 🙂

[severe helm]

or lead with your left shoulder when swinging a bat

[sharp sierra]

Oh yeah I agree I just can’t use them because of the amount of comp fps games I play

[severe helm]

I swap mice

haha

I have a naga for wow and a pulsar crazylight x2 for deadlock and stuff

[sharp sierra]

Was it hard getting used to it?

The mmo mouse

[severe helm]

the naga?

ive used it since I was a kid

so not really

[sharp sierra]

I just feel like with 12 buttons I’d lose the placement so fast

[severe helm]

I bought my first naga when I was like 17

when it came out in like 2010

[outer sky]

I have a discontinued Logitech G600 and it needs to survive forever because no other mmo mouse on the market is as good as it

[severe helm]

razer naga is p much the same

[sharp sierra]

My third pc uses a mmo mouse with 4 buttons but I just mainly use MouseWithoutBorders so kinda phased it out

I’ll try grabbing one for main pc

I’ve got some kvm switches I can use

[molten hedge]

I use a Logitech g502X

So to say I dont use an mmo mouse is not true which I did say. But its not a 12 button

And I don’t believe ppl use a 12 button with control shift and alt mods 0-12

Most ppl use 1-6 mostly

[outer sky]

I do

[molten hedge]

You prob got a stroke of the tism then bro

[outer sky]

Ctrl+7 is my focus kick

[molten hedge]

Jkjk

[severe helm]

I do 🙂

and probably yeah

all 3 mods all 12 buttons

I even have target arena pet 1,2,3 on my mouse

[outer sky]

Theres no reason not to. Shift+1 is no easier to press than shift+9

With a 12 button mouse

[severe helm]

far from necessary though

[dark kernel]

That is my Naga button 4

[severe helm]

I think honestly if you just have really good target arena 1,2,3 binds you can get away with a lot

[severe helm]

oh do you not rebind your mouse?

my mouse doesnt share the keys

[wise sequoia]

I have 48 "binds" on my rdruids mmo mouse 12 buttons 😛

[outer sky]

Nope

[severe helm]

aaah

levaing binds on the table man

[dark kernel]

I need to redo my mouse binds

[severe helm]

so shift + 1 ont he keyboard is the same as your shift 1 on mouse?

[outer sky]

Yes

[dark kernel]

I just realized I can make my mouse all Numpad 1-9

[outer sky]

I dont really feel starved for binds

[dark kernel]

Which is separate from 1-9

[severe helm]

yeah fair

[wise sequoia]

Mine are f5-f12 and - and *

[molten hedge]

I have 54 binds without a 12 button mmo mouse and zero alt modifiers

[outer sky]

I have all 12 mouse buttons, plus their modifiers, plus keys like F, G, C, Q, etc and those modifiers

[molten hedge]

🐐 🔥

[severe helm]

this is mine lol

[wise sequoia]

Inclduing my keyboard I got more than 100 binds ... barely

But I also cheat a bit with macros having several binds

per click

[molten hedge]

100 is unnecessary lmfao

Yeah about to say

[wise sequoia]

I use them all

[severe helm]

I mean mouse alone is 60

[dark kernel]

F5 was my OG kidney shot button and I pushed glad in TBC with that shit

[severe helm]

they fill up fast if you use arena 1, 2, 3, focus for everything

[outer sky]

My kidney shot is 2

[dark kernel]

Mine is now C

[outer sky]

My step is C

[molten hedge]

Imma get glad this ssn with my shitty setup bc it doesn’t matter

[dark kernel]

I'ma get glad this season because I suck off the right people

[molten hedge]

Could just tab target and be fine

Lmaooo

[wise sequoia]

You can also get glad in honor gear. Or do it witouth a keyboard.

But its easier if you make it easier 😛

Just like you can pay for better players to group with you.

[outer sky]

Last season MM hunters could get glad without a monitor

[molten hedge]

I multiclass so having that many binds regardless of having similar binds for utility damage and cc on as many classes/specs as I play doesn’t seem worth it. Most of this is subjective anyway. As long as you can do the fundamentals easily, that’s all that matters

Also I’d like to see someone get glad with honor gear on retail. I watched Bicmex do his 0-2400 shuffle no addons and honor gear and it was pretty funny

Woofwooftrap

[outer sky]

I got 2400 in shuffle on day 2 of the season. Only had 3 pieces of conq gear

[molten hedge]

As did everyone else

[outer sky]

Shhh

[molten hedge]

Hahaha

[outer sky]

You didnt specify

Context

[molten hedge]

Trueee

I wonder how inflation will be this ssn

I remember TWW s1 shuffle was very deflated and come to think of it I remember R1s being 2100 for weeks

[wise sequoia]

tbh getting2400 day 2 is harder than end season in green gear

Inflation was crazy last season

[molten hedge]

A lot of my friends felt like getting glad was harder this ssn than many previous seasons what is yalls opinion

[outer sky]

That was the hardest glad of my life and also the worst mount

Nah s1 was harder

[molten hedge]

That was my first ssn pvping so I wouldn’t even know mmaooo

[severe helm]

its often impossible haha

[molten hedge]

I did get elite that ssn though in shuffle which was sick for 1st ssn

I did do a little PvP df s4 but I was just gearing and learning wow

[severe helm]

s1 tww the highest rated person in the whole game was like bicmex at 2370

with like an 80% winrate

[molten hedge]

So I don’t count that

[severe helm]

blizz put a hardcap on 3s and shuffle

I think to inflate blitz

tbh

[molten hedge]

Yeah I agree 100%

[outer sky]

Next seasons glad mount looks pretty good so hopefully pvp boosting sales get more business

Im trying to save up for a Zulian Tiger

Need those boosts

[molten hedge]

How much

[outer sky]

Basically gold cap on the BMAH

[molten hedge]

That mount seems like more of a status symbol it’s not even cool to me

What’s gold cap

[outer sky]

10m

[molten hedge]

Geez

[outer sky]

Well 9,999,999

So when it comes up on the BMAH you just bid gold cap

Then nobody can out bid you

And you just get it

[molten hedge]

Who puts them on there

Blizz?

[outer sky]

Yes

[molten hedge]

Bro my healer had 7 mil stolen from him

[outer sky]

F

[molten hedge]

Blizz did jack ducking shit

All his toons were logged in at banks lol

[outer sky]

[molten hedge]

He almost uninstalled lol

[outer sky]

Well hopefully that doesnt happen to me

[severe helm]

wait what how

no authenticator?

[molten hedge]

This guy is techy to the max. There’s no way he doesn’t have an authenticator

[severe helm]

but someone somehow logged into his acc?

[molten hedge]

His name is Greymatterx he makes addons and made WAs for fun

Verz just asked him to help on MiniCC which is cool

[severe helm]

crazy ive never heard of someone getting their account stolen with 2 factor auth

[molten hedge]

Do you mean an authenticator when you login? I’m tryna turn that shit off

Bnet messes up

So I just do it through email

[severe helm]

bro do not

turn that off

lol

[molten hedge]

Yolo

Account wasn’t stolen. He just got all his gold stolen

[severe helm]

how

like someone logged in and mailed it off?

[molten hedge]

Yeah all his alts were at the banks or mailboxes so I assume they put it all in his warbank

[severe helm]

yeah okay thats what I meant by account stolen

crazy idk how they got past the authenticator

that like shouldnt be possible thats the whole point rofl

[molten hedge]

Maybe he doesn’t have it but he’s super detailed in everything he does so I don’t see how he wouldn’t

I’m curious now imma ask

[outer sky]

Yeah that really doesnt seem possible

[molten hedge]

It was many moons ago

Blizz said fuq you

[severe helm]

yeah I mean if you dont have an auth

and you get hacked

thats on you

[molten hedge]

I remember him asking if they could check on IP addresses and they said no

[sharp sierra]

Yeah 2auth works for most things besides discord and some others

Surprisingly works well on bnet

[severe helm]

yeah I mean unless someone is holding your phone they should never be able to log in to your bnet from another computer

[molten hedge]

I always have issues with my bnet

It doesn’t let me login to authenticate

So I just do it with email

[sharp sierra]

I have like 20+ bnet accts and my main with auth has never failed me

Hell at this point I don’t even remember my steam password 🤣

[molten hedge]

I can’t make groups in lfg (not that I lfg thank God) but I authenticated my acct and it doesn’t work to get my extra bag space too

[sharp sierra]

Does it just error out? Or a specific message

[wise sequoia]

I got the app on my phone and that works pretty well ... though its annoying when I need the phone to log in. Only happens rarely though.

[molten hedge]

It says something like too many something on the error page

[molten hedge]

Yeah I’m not sure but it never works no matter what I try

[outer sky]

I just looted a grey item with a use

[severe helm]

thats normal yeah

they started doing that for cosmetics

its nice

I like the very "ordinary" looking gear

[subtle warren]

Ya it’s kind of funny how different people are

Like some people love just insane over the top mogs

And others are like gimme some sweats and I’m good

Ngl the Vday sweatsuit with some stunner shades goes hard af

Had to trade in the Christmas outfit for a lil bit

[outer sky]

Imagine being this much of a loser. It's pre-patch bro chill out ffs

[potent pivot]

fuckin idioto

[sharp sierra]

I LOVE the darkfuse cloak im so happy i wasted some of my life farming it

Looks good on everything

Only gripe I have is I wish I could wear any of the mantle blades back pieces with a weapon on back

Idk why they put so much physics into the blades lmao I dokt know of any other back piece that does it

[outer sky]

I went 5-1 and he went 1-5

[potent pivot]

that does what, hides back sheathing weapons?

cuz like all of the non-cloak back pieces hide weps don't they

[potent pivot]

a hunter not winning? yea they deserve to sit and pout

they got too used to winning the past couple seasons

[gleaming sentinel]

Idioto

[devout pewter]

Likewise. Need more plain looking rogue gear in this game, non-pirate themed as well.

[sharp sierra]

yeah i usually dont run cloaks so i wasnt aware

luckily someone just let me farm the blades and i got it on 3rd try

[outer sky]

It goes

Idi>idioto>idiot

https://tenor.com/view/pidgeotto-pokemon-cute-fly-gif-17250531

[molten hedge]

@outer sky this works great btw for 123

[outer sky]

Yeah I'll get right on changing that

[molten hedge]

are you being facetious lmao

[outer sky]

https://tenor.com/view/van-wilder-comedy-ryan-reynolds-no-sarcastic-gif-3464812

This cant be real

https://zillowforwarcraft.com/#/search/alliance

Someone tell me im just having a really bad dream

[sharp sierra]

bro half the updates are wrong now

ww monk caught the nerfs that was supposed to go to mw loooool

[safe pelican]

S tier joke deserved more appreciation

[safe pelican]

Lmaoooo Yo wtf is thissssss ?!? What game are we even playing anymore we are getting closer and closer to Minecraft and Fortnite every xpac

Do something ref! The Money Grab Boyz are back at it again 😒

[outer sky]

Im glad someone appreciated it

[proven field]

latest assa build I am playing with, trying to cook up big kingsbanes... got to 30k tick in a BG

please call me genius or dumbtarded, I am new to assa

[outer sky]

Its bad

[severe helm]

playing for the final tick to hit hard is not a very reliable way to land kills in 3s/shuffle

in bgs you can do whatever

[outer sky]

You need tea, and in BGs you also need shadowrunner and featherfoot for most maps. Blindside is trash. Crimson Tempest is trash

[proven field]

this was what I was doing up until today

CT seems to spread properly now if that helps

[outer sky]

It doesnt help. Its bugged. You bleed 1 target and get 3 energy per tick but its reduced to 1 energy per tick beyond 1 target and right now if you bleed multiple targets it makes every targets bleeds give you 1 energy per tick. So bleeding 3 targets and bleeding 1 is the same regen

[proven field]

eww

[outer sky]

And you still need tea. And blindside is still really bad

And in BGs you also need the movement speed talents

Especially blitz when bases are on a timer

[proven field]

yeah depending on map I swap iron stomach for featherfoot

[outer sky]

You also want shadowrunner

20% move speed in stealth

The middle talent you have in the class tree

The increase weapons poison one

Its terrible

[proven field]

blindside is that bad? the free part of it I find so helpful, especially when it stacks

[outer sky]

Drop that for anything else

[outer sky]

Yeah its that bad. You usually build combo points with fan of knives. Youre not pressing mut/ambush enough to get value out of blindside most matchups

[severe helm]

oh its so bad haha

its just mega undertuned

[proven field]

damnit, i feel like im doing ok

apparently much to learn about assa lol

[severe helm]

and you arent even taking the ambush cp talent so its pretty weak cp wise

for its energy

you might be doing fine but your talents arent helping you haha

game as a whole though has become more forgiving on that stuff in midnight

[proven field]

well i find I do better if I start by picking my own talents and then slowly learning and tweaking until I inevitably end up where everyone else is

if I just take someone's setup it feels like it takes longer to learn if I dont already knwo the spec

[severe helm]

all roads lead to rome

[proven field]

https://klipy.com/gifs/fast-and-furious-24

how it feels right now lol

[sick moth]

So I’m just coming back after years and I remember I could sap blind to cap the base. Is that not a thing anymore?

[potent pivot]

nop

well

you used to be able to blind->sap even if they were in combat

that can't be done anymore

you also can't cast anything while capping a base afaik

[outer sky]

You can blind>cap in blitz but not in 10 man premade RBGs

[potent pivot]

Can also use kidney right

[outer sky]

yes

[sick moth]

So sap to get trinket then blind cap in blitz?

[outer sky]

yep

[sick moth]

Okay cool or blind get trinket and kidney? Or will that DR

[outer sky]

nope no DR

[sick moth]

So couple options in the blitz bgs
What about 10 man rbgs what is the main go to, to cap with a defender

[outer sky]

well in 10 man cap takes 6s. Sap also lasts 6s. So you actually can sap>cap you just need to press sap at the exact same instant you click cap

otherwise youre just rotating stuns and disorients while someone else caps

[potent pivot]

A smart defender won’t trinket anything but sap then ye?

[sick moth]

Okay great. Appreciate all the info!
Only really ever played sub and assa
How’s outlaw? Looks fun

[outer sky]

correct

but the down side is

if nobody shows up before the DR is up

you get the base for free

thats one reason why rets, rogues, druids, hunters

are such good base sitters

they have multiple outs or they can be stealthed so they cant just get sapped off DR

[hybrid sapphire]

why did they repair the bridges in battle for gilneas

[wise sequoia]

For the bots

In training mode

[hybrid sapphire]

o

[severe helm]

Id argue outlaw is actually a very bad base sitter

Since it can't step sap it auto loses to another rogue getting the eye

Lack of step kinda fucks it

[outer sky]

I said rogues not pirates

[severe helm]

Haha fair

[hybrid sapphire]

wtf is this new dh spec

they seemingly do nothing and everything all at once

[severe helm]

They're really overtuned on pre patch

[subtle warren]

blind talent probs not worth it anymore right?

[potent pivot]

prolly

[subtle warren]

just played 3's and queues pop so fast and now back to shuffle and its forever

I legit cant believe blizz hasnt done something for healers

[potent pivot]

short blind is just like "ok" now instead of being OP

[subtle warren]

ya i play gouge vs any caster

[potent pivot]

you can still do tricks on it every 1min

[subtle warren]

nice to stop something without donating precog

whats tricks?

[pliant spoke]

do you mean tricks of the trade?

any threat you take you direct to a party memeber. ideally the tank

[potent pivot]

I mean you can still make plays with it every 1min

The short blind

[subtle warren]

Oh ya

[severe helm]

whatd they do to blind?

they nerf the reduction?

[potent pivot]

ya

[severe helm]

is it a pvp only thing?

[potent pivot]

i think so

idk why it isn't a pve thing though tbh

who needs an aoe stop every ~30 sec?

[dark moon]

That sounds good for every pack in m+

[potent pivot]

in higher m+ you don't even do a pack every 30 really

and afaik they were going to make dungeon packs a lot easier to deal with since changing the addon shit

so idk just seems weird

good for rogue's toolkit in keys though ig, if its still useful to have aoe stops

[dark moon]

It's every minute or so, but still nice if you have aoe stop

Rogues are suffering in m+ cause shit utility

[quick crypt]

Assassination still bad even after buffs?

[grave basin]

fyi for those who dont know

blizzard has put in sounds alerts natively in cooldown manager

[strange trellis]

Thats going to be real useful for when we get final Ancient Arts talent

I find the graphical alert kinda hard to see

[jolly sierra]

for something useful this former keychain works lol

[subtle warren]

Can. The sound be customized to voice ?

I want a British lately speaking to me in a condescending tone

“Kick ready, time to give precog”

[dark kernel]

Fucking SICK

[molten hedge]

I agree. I’m playing with destro this ssn so we have lots of fear DRs. So I’m thinking kidney blind sap every minute will be good still

[subtle warren]

Blind drs with fear right?

[molten hedge]

Yea

@wise sequoia it was only prepatch, but I queued into 4 mw’s ln in shuffle, and they all got ran over. I have mostly been doing 3s so maybe it’s just fotm rerollers, but it was around 2400mmr

I’m sure it’s also diff on beta with scaling and apex talents

[outer sky]

Oh good does MW seem noticeably weaker now?

[molten hedge]

Yeah it did, but idk if it was just bc it was shuffle and damp or what. But i could feel the nerf. I did hear Blizz messed up some of the tuning idk if that was true or effected mw. But also I’ve barely played shuffle in prepatch. And in 3s were around 2400mmr so big diff from shuffle 2400

[outer sky]

I did 1 shuffle yesterday and it didnt even have a mistweaver in it. Usually every lobby had 1 and often 2. So that made me think the nerfs must've mattered. But that lobby had 2 disc priests which I know got giga buffed so that could be part of the reason too

[molten hedge]

Yeah I had a couple discs do the same dam as dk and ddh

And I asked how much they got buffed and they said not much @outer sky

[outer sky]

Everyone always sandbags for their preferred class/spec lol

[stoic spruce]

DKs dont

and I resent them for it

[outer sky]

Like if Magnus ever says warrior is properly balanced thats usually a good indicator that its at least 15% overtuned

[molten hedge]

Yeah yk when supa says boomie is good it’s god tier

[dark kernel]

Short blind is still INSANE with black jack for stopping goes on DPS if it's double melee

100% will run it into some cleaves

[outer sky]

has anyone tried assa since the buffs?

I dont even want to play it. It just feels so bad having such little CC

[potent pivot]

I have a feeling it’ll have some good dmg every minute now

You could sometimes pop off a one shot on beta before this last buff

[outer sky]

well yeah thats how long it takes for the energy bar to refill

[potent pivot]

Meh

Didn’t even feel that bad to me ngl

The way people were talking I was surprised at what the reality was

[outer sky]

i feel like to give up sub levels of CC the damage assa needs to do has to be insane

[potent pivot]

If they fix VW it will be more than fine imo. Still won’t be spamming every gcd tho

[outer sky]

way less CC, way less mobility, way less survivability

like it needs to absolutely crank

[subtle warren]

How so, can you get a sap off shortvlind?

[woven copper]

I tried it, but it's still broken. However, it feels much better than it did at the beginning of the pre-patch, but I'm far from being a pro.

[subtle warren]

It’s always amazed me that Blizz doesn’t release very frequent small scaling tweaks

Like it’s just so obvious how many classes could be made significantly better with a few % on some metric

I’ve felt this way forever

[potent pivot]

Off a kidney->blind

[subtle warren]

Yah okay was going to say

They’ll drop these crazy patches with new abilities that are completely broken or nerf 1 class by 40% to the point it’s nuked. Like why not push out very small fixes twice a week. + 5% damage buff on assa finishers, + 5% shaman heals etc etc

There’s SO MUCH DATA they have insta feedback, and you aren’t going to break anything

[wise sequoia]

There is no way that a 50% nerf to a single talent (mistline) has caused MW to fall from S+/god tier to B tier.

They still have cast while moving, heal from behind pillar, great instant single target heals, a flexible kit and some of the best CC in the game for a healer.

Maybe those monks just assumed that renewing mist would automatically keep their teammates safe, and they forgot about playing around sheiloons gift and rushing wind kick (which also heals through pillars).

The nerfs to both pala and monk were absolutely warranted!

The buffs to damage (especially to disc) Im not so sure about.

Disc and holy seemed absolutely fine, though a level below pala/monk - who got nerfed.

I do appreciate blizz experimenting with healer damage though - that’s my biggest issue with rdruid.

[subtle warren]

Literally every company in the world does this with other features

[cobalt vector]

I’m sure most of you know this, but after playing on and off since late vanilla, early TBC, I have finally made a rogue, and holy fuck is this class fun. Cannot believe I refused to make one this entire time.

[subtle warren]

With the current disc damage it does seem like rmp would be simply unbeatable

You’re just 3 dps every 20 sec on a go

[dark moon]

That's good news! I like it when people cry about rmp. Tears are tastier

[wise sequoia]

It would take almost no effort. Instead of letting MM rule unchallenged for six months, they could just nerf their damage by 3% every week, until they are in line.

They allready has the tuning knobs - they just refuse to touch them.

[outer sky]

@molten hedge Mistweaver still seems pretty good...

[dark kernel]

A very notable blizzard pvp developer is playing a hunter for next expansion.

Use this information how you see fit.

[molten hedge]

That’s just a healer diff lmao

And i was only saying the mws in my lobbies got bodied

Could just be bad luck

[proven field]

Well we've hit a point where MW can counter the extra disc push of dmg.. total contribution is pretty close but if disc cant push rounds over, MW will win every time

[molten hedge]

I didn’t say that it was B tier haha. All we need is for it to be more balanced with other healers

[subtle warren]

Yes man as a software engineer I truly have been flummoxed by this for years

Like you literally have the winrate data and a million content creators giving feedback. So so braindead it’s unbelievable

[molten hedge]

Mm was fine

[subtle warren]

And before they claim it’ll ruin PvP. You can easily make it so these little tweaks only apply in PvP

It’s just so trivial

[molten hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/side-eye-suspicious-puppet-gif-2729624127692369191

[subtle warren]

Ya like tww hunter wtf were they thinking?

Truly

[wise sequoia]

They weren’t thinking.

[outer sky]

GET ABSOLUTELY FUCKED!

https://outplayed.tv/world-of-warcraft/EY3Z7L

[subtle warren]

also, i just legit looked at the forums for 2 sec and see this from a random dude

When it was first introduced for WoW’s 15th anniversary, Korrak’s Revenge allowed players of all levels to queue together, with everyone being scaled up or down to level 60. For a brief time, it was therefore possible to level up only through PvP by spamming this event. Participation was high since there was no level requirement.
Another great thing about this event was that players could buy a full set of Honor gear immediately after reaching max level.
I would keep this concept as a permanent feature, so that players interested in PvP don’t have to wait to reach max level before they can start playing PvP.
New settings for existing Battlegrounds: There’s no need to reinvent the wheel. Arathi Bassin and Warsong Gulch are great, whereas new Battlegrounds are much less popular.
Instead of creating brand new concepts from Battlegrounds, I would just make new maps for existing game modes, or simply add rotating seasons for existing maps.
Lower rating thresholds for Healers: Earlier this season (and perhaps still right now), there were no healers in the top 1000 players of the PvP ladder. Whilst it’s not a perfect fix, I would lower the rating threshold for Healers by 100: 2300 for Elite, 2000 for Duelist, 1700 for Rival, etc.
Healer participation is the most important issue in Ranked PvP right now. Low healer participation means 30 minute queue times for DPS players, which is rough even for the unemployed.
Creation of a dedicated PvP hub: most likely a massive coliseum, with PvP vendors from every season lined up in order, new PvP quests, and dedicated areas for dueling (health and cooldowns reset before every duel) and free-for-all fighting.
This would also help creating a sense of community.

Like - honestly what we've all been saying but this would take 0 dev effort and fix so many issues

just dont get how its so obvious but ignored for so long

[subtle warren]

based

[outer sky]

Bro should stick to player housing

leave the battlegrounds to the big boys

[wise sequoia]

But the board really liked the visuals of a new EBG!

(Nevermind that voidstorm will be unplayable due to hardware limitations. The shareholders like how it looks.)

(Creating a HUGE new pvp map and quest hub has taken a LOT of effort. Ten times more than a simple revamp of BGs, moving a couple NPCs and fixing the rating system. Those ideas do however not impress the shareholders.)

Void storm is undoubtedly the biggest pvp addition we have gotten for many expansions!

Not sure how many people will like it though.

It honestly dwarfs shuffle, blitz and training grounds combined.

[subtle warren]

Does anyone have the numbers on players who engage in arena + blitz vs pve

Like is it 20%? 5%

[outer sky]

Most estimates say its around 15% of the playerbase

[wise sequoia]

I think in a good season every region has >100k players in shuffle. And >1.5m players in m+.

15% might be correct for all pvp, but rated pvp above 1000 rating is closer to 5%

[grave basin]

duel spot with vendors, spectator mode, pillars

probably takes an intern an afternoon to make

get one of their billion housing devs to do it

[potent pivot]

All pve vs all pvp? Prolly sub 5%

LFR/Normal and regular dungeons/delves get millions

[subtle warren]

Ya idk the fixes just seem so trivial

Just a shame

Especially after doing work on my private server…… they could give me a week and it’d be done

[wise sequoia]

Its also an issue in PvE. Last time I looked at the leaderboards for M+ was in TWW season 1, and I remember EVERY group pushing the highest keys had a resto shaman.

Not a single other healer in the highest key level. Not a single other healer in a level below that either ... and even at two levels down rshaman was still half the healers.

Likewise just 6-7 of the DPS specs were 95% of the DPS specs present.

[dark kernel]

Remember the M+ dragonflight god comp?

[subtle warren]

Yup, such an easy tweak man they just don’t care idk

Or maybe it’s all about money, people are going to play anyway but boost a fotm class

I mean even healer rewards, do they actually want to reduce queue times for shuffle? Or do they like people sitting around for 30 minutes in between, doing world quests, leveling alts etc

We think like game devs, I fear they are forced to think like business leads

[wise sequoia]

Dedicating a developper to spend 5 hours per week would be plenty. Thats 25k per year. Completely insignificant amount of money for a billion dollar revenue company.

They must have some reason not to do it.'

[subtle warren]

Ya I think it’s what I just said

Unless someone else could give me a reason why you would let a class dominate for months and then nerf it 50%

[analog tapir]

is assa still shit afther buff?

[wise sequoia]

Even if their damage gets on par with Sub ... their kit will still be worse.

Energy regeneration is tediously slow and they don't have easy access to cheap shot / silence.

Sub can even run double vanish and have infinite spare energy for feints - better defensive kit as well

But they might not be "shit" 😛

[proven field]

You have to think beyond PVP stats though... the only thing that matters to them is growth. If engagement models tell them that MM should be OP, it will be OP even if it's 95% of a ladder. Once the attrition rate eclipses, only then will they nerf MM - purely to retain users

MM is the most interesting one because it is 100% the queen of casuals... more people stay engaged sniping people <1400 (or even just purely unrated) than almost every other spec combined

nerf it, sure you make the 1000 people north of 2400 happier, maybe you increase BGB engagement, but if it makes 20,000 ogres stop engaging, that's bad for them even if it's healthier for competition. The real problem is that PVP isn't a separate game - it's a side event - and it will never be optimized properly because it's tied to the business model of the core MMO

[grave basin]

why would mm be the queen of casuals

bm is

[proven field]

because it's super fun and easy? It's literally call of duty spec

everyone here has an MM char that they've spent time just trolling the shit out of people with

[grave basin]

i dont

"more people stay engaged sniping people <1400 (or even just purely unrated) than almost every other spec combined"

gonna need the stats for this

most people under 1400 prefer some melee dps to press W with

and just win or lose based on vibes

ala fury warrior

[proven field]

include unrated though

since that still flags PVP and all balancing will affect it too, even if it should be separate

all those EBG people, all the random BG folks

[grave basin]

and why should blizzard care about unrated pvp balance

where you get pop saltwater and engi items

and every other bullshit

where your class doesnt matter

ebg is a cesspool of ranged

literally zero shits given

[proven field]

I literally told you why above

[grave basin]

good thing they dont though

imagine balancing for ebg

what would dpswarrior even get to balance it out

[proven field]

they don't really balance for anything, that's the point - they only balance to keep engagement up

whatever keeps the most people logged in, that's really all they care about.. if balancing MW will keep more people engaged, they'll do it. If it wont, MW stays OP

[grave basin]

so all those balance patches with insane nerfs to OP specs at the start of expacs are just my imagination?

ill admit blizzard didnt do shit for tww s3

[proven field]

...no dude, they are designed to make the product more attractive

[grave basin]

a well balanced pvp ladder is attractive

????

[proven field]

how many people play high-ranked PVP vs unranked, vs PVE?

[grave basin]

what makes you think balance in the high end doesnt bleeed into the low end usually?

look at ret pala

[proven field]

why do you think they cater to streamer complaints? It's not because they are amazing at PVP, it's because they are free advertising

[grave basin]

😭 which streamer complaints?

[proven field]

You've never noticed how often key streamers complain about something being OP or terrible and it's fixed quickly?

[grave basin]

no? usually those complaints are valid too

[proven field]

of course, but so are a lot that aren't talked abouit

[grave basin]

when did some streamer dunk on a C tier spec and it gets nerfed further?

[proven field]

why do some specs get instantly nerfed over and over, while others stay wild for months... what do you think drives that? It's $$$

[grave basin]

example?

not tww s3

[proven field]

You want examples of some specs catching quick nerfs and others not?

[grave basin]

sure go for it

[wise sequoia]

Frost DK! Enhance Shaman!

instant nerfs

Hunter! Pala!

no nerfs 😛

[grave basin]

pala did get nerfed though

i mean this whole schtick of catering to streamers is hilarious

venruki has been making videos about shuffle

for literally 5 seasons straight

same talking points

and it's not changed one bit

[wise sequoia]

But also healer balance is waay worse than DPS usually.

Which is a big problem since healers need to be able to responds. Even bad DPS specs can oneshot.

And we really need to have more healers in game, so making 1-2 specs be the only viable ones are bad design

[proven field]

How often are new specs/classes OP the first season they are introduced

[grave basin]

how far back are you going

[proven field]

as far back as you want

[grave basin]

twice, dk and aug

[wise sequoia]

Last season the average disc mmr was 600 points above average druid mmr.

Average druid players might be stuck at 1800 while average disc soars to 2400.

So 1800 druids end up loosing to people without keybinds and feel bad and quit.

[grave basin]

not sure about dh since i didnt pvp seriously in legion

but dev on beta isnt OP at all

[proven field]

but that's two expansions ago

S1 DF Devo was melting everything

the answer is pretty much always - new specs/classes are always OP when they launch... why?

[grave basin]

no one remembers s1 df for devoker though

extremely bad example

feral was op

assa was op

ret was op

??

[proven field]

it doesnt matter who else was OP, it just matters on why were the new specs always OP

[grave basin]

devoker was OP in s1??

people were race changing to dwarf just to not have to deal with assa and feral

[proven field]

dude can you just answer the question

[grave basin]

devoker wasnt op

that's the answer

now if you wanna say aug youd have a point