pvp

[sharp sierra]

Stayed right in its place

[gilded gulch]

I mean hard games don't do well longterm.

[severe helm]

I mean its part of difficulty

[sharp sierra]

And thrived

[gilded gulch]

See: wildstar

[severe helm]

if you could quicksave

in m+ in wow

it would be a cakewalk

[gilded gulch]

I think souls games are an outlier

in a genuinely difficult yet successful game

[severe helm]

like if you wipe you just resume back before the pull

[sharp sierra]

Factorio

[severe helm]

so how punishing stuff is does impact difficulty

but when you lean too much on it I htink its a lazy form of difficulty imo

[gilded gulch]

I do think the gaming model shifting to instant queue lobby style games.

Is a sign of technology.

[sharp sierra]

God bless shard technology

Which was actually popularized by a C++ experiment

Then some mmo I forgot the name bought the license/patent for it

Then lapse it

Now avaible to every mmo

[outer sky]

Ngl I think anyone who says any version of pve is "harder" than pvp is kinda fried

[gilded gulch]

mmos a pretty dead genre

Nowadays

it's like, wow osrs and ffxiv

[sharp sierra]

UE5 is the main reason for that

Imo

[sharp sierra]

ESO is pretty popular still although I wouldn’t put it on the same level but deserves a spot

[gilded gulch]

Wow pvp will never truly be a viewer friendly game

its just shit to spectate

Though I do love me some tourney finals of 2 european teams in older expacs

and i can forward the vod 20 minutes and round still isnt over

[outer sky]

I'm so glad that version of the game is gone

[sharp sierra]

I genuinely don’t understand how casters do it for awc

Like even OW casters blow my mind but listening to someone like supa and ziko call out every little thing fries my brain

Those two are on another level

[outer sky]

One thing that feels really good on beta right now is healers arent omnipotent

[sharp sierra]

I’m still trying to find my caster

[outer sky]

They can be free casting but after a few minutes into the game if they dont have a CD they can't save anyone

[sharp sierra]

Might just go sp since the healer I mostly play is disc anyways

[outer sky]

And like if healer CC ends and you have someone low

They can't just top them with instants

[severe helm]

yeah big healthpools with weaker healing helps the game so much imo

[outer sky]

Of course that goes both ways

[severe helm]

makes pvp less erratic

and less bullshit wins

[outer sky]

Agree

But now healer mains are complaining about "healer agency"

Like just shut up and press your buttons this feels fine

[sharp sierra]

Even from my disc perspective it feels way less frustrating and less “oh I didn’t press my full health button .0001 seconds faster than the other guy for the 10th time this millisecond gg we lose”

Coming from not a high rated healer but still feels more engaging

I wonder if rdruids will become relevant again

Didn’t they rule the 2v2 ladder for years?

[outer sky]

Theyre not great on beta

[outer sky]

Yeah with BM hunter

[gilded gulch]

Though european dampeners were better and yet

also rmp/jungle

NA was always just good at meleecleaves

XD

[severe helm]

rdruid has been good in 2s for like multiple expansions now

its the only healer with spammable cc its always gona be good haha

and cc that prevents healing

[sharp sierra]

Ive been wanting to do a rmp comp but finding equally bad people willing to stick it out and learn has been tough

My gfs been wanting to get into the game she likes watching the pvp but I don’t even know how to begin to show her anything she’s never really done MMOs just comp level shooters

[severe helm]

which is so insane in 2s

[outer sky]

The problem with rdruid is whenever its the best healer the game feels like a hot bag of turds

In 2s idc so much because dampening ramps up so fast eventually I can just run the druid down

But in 3s

[proven field]

did they shadow-nerf Leech?

[outer sky]

Rdruid meta is boring af

[proven field]

im like -10% from yesterday

[outer sky]

No idea

If so thats basically a nerf to DH and nobody else

[potent pivot]

no

[outer sky]

Yes

[potent pivot]

what is that in reference to exactly

[outer sky]

Certainly you'd know if you judged it as false

[potent pivot]

the conversation was kinda all over the place

pve, osrs, other games

but i don't see why anyone would conflate tedium with difficulty

[outer sky]

People do it in TBC all the time. They think a dungeon is "hard" because you cant mongo pull and aoe everything down like in later xpacs. So you pull slowly, wait for the pat, etc etc. But like, thats not difficult. Its just slower and more tedious.

We about to get some r1 calculations in the chat @wise sequoia?

[potent pivot]

god i hope not

[wise sequoia]

Can someone explain whats hard about mythic as dps? Never tried it.

From my perspective it appears as if you just:

• don’t stand in the fire,
• read the guide for what boss emotes require a defensive, and
• just follow the tank around while doing your damage rotation. Perfect dps is impossible, but just doing assisted highlight is better than 95% of players

I dont mean any disrespect… I simply don’t understand how to express skill.

[wise sequoia]

Lol. Im on topic

[potent pivot]

[severe helm]

Just general reference to people calling punishing things or stuff that requires no mistakes but is not mechanically challenging "hard"

[potent pivot]

there is way more that goes into it than that

[severe helm]

like is getting to 60 in hardcore wow "hard" like it depends how you define it

[potent pivot]

oh idk i consume fuck all classic content so i have never heard a soul say any classic content is "hard" ever

[severe helm]

its a lot lot lot more, you cant make any mistakes in terms of kick rotations/ccs/mechanics/etc but also most good dps that are on a team contribute to designing routes and finding ways to overcome dungeons

[potent pivot]

most classic streamers i've seen say its all easy

[severe helm]

like a lot of the time youre tracking what cds you need on which mechanics on which fights to barely live and you know the exact damage those things deal so you arent overcommitting defensives/etc

and thats just like one element of it

[potent pivot]

CD planning, reaction time, kick rotations, defensive rotations, nullifying certain mechanics.
i can't even write how much actually goes into high end pvm because its just a lot of shit

[severe helm]

most of it is in the execution, doing a perfect dps rotation might not be that hard on its own, landing kicks isnt that hard on its own, not getting hit by mechanics isnt that hard on its own, etc etc

but doing all the things all at once for 30-40 mins without a single hiccup between 5 players is challenging

[outer sky]

Those people are self aware. But I promise you a large chunk of the classic players base thinks what they're doing really is hard

[severe helm]

idk if large

non zero for sure

[potent pivot]

basic pve is easy as pie, high end pve gets pretty hard

i still think pvp is harder because its almost all reaction time, but high end pve gets a lil TOO shit on by pvpers

[severe helm]

and its just dynamic

pve is very very scripted

the dungeon will play out just about identically every time

[outer sky]

In pve the enemies you're fighting are not deliberately trying to outplay you

They wont refuse to stack because that makes you do more damage

[potent pivot]

ye but at the high end it's still like trying to achieve whats not possible to achieve

[wise sequoia]

So its mainly a team sport. Having anyone kick a cast is easy, but cycling through it perfectly requires coordination.

Optimizing a route is a strategic puzzle.

It sounds more like a strategy game where you plan comp and try to decide the order of every cooldown before you start … and then execute it as a team, where a misclick can end the run.

[outer sky]

I have plenty of respect for high end pve

[potent pivot]

you can't keep pushing keys all the way to +50s

there's a limit that people find every season

[severe helm]

the execution is still pretty challenging

depending on the spec youre playing

pve is a lot more exhausting than pvp in my experience

cuz it requires focus for such an extended period of time

pvp is very stressful for brief moments

then its relaxed

and you can fuck around

even within a match theres very high pressure moments then theres moments where honestly its very forgiving

[outer sky]

I pushed really high keys in BFA and theres also layer to it that nobody here is even talking about where to keep the run from going to shit you have to force mechanics to happen on your terms. Like in this one dungeon there was a mob that would randomly charge the furthest player from them and at the key levels I was doing that was easily a 1 shot. So after the pull id run away with evasion up to make it charge me and because I had evasion id live. Then id go back in the fight and our fire mage would run out and get charged and that would just be his caut. And ideally we finish the pull before we run out of things to save us

Coordinating that shit can be really challenging

It doesnt matter at low keys because its not a one shot

[severe helm]

yeah there are some very niche things you have to learn how to cheese/play around in ways that blizzard never intended

cuz stuff just starts fucking one shotting you

[wise sequoia]

Im totally there for theory crafting the perfect comp/route and micromanage every cooldown for optimal effect.

But I don’t really like that someone (possibly me) is going to fail the dungeon because we overlapped a kick.

Still for most of the party it seems like you just follow orders and do mechanics. There are lots of bullethell/dark souls/ect. games which have way harder mechanics and people showcase beating them without getting hit once.

I should give it a go. It sounds fun. Just wish I could try without needing to gear.

[outer sky]

There was this one boss in bfa

Called the Sand Queen

That bitch

Would burrow underground and then jump up on a player

And one shot them

And to live you'd have to time your mobility perfectly

Like if she targeted me id shadowstep right before she came up

But if I mistimed it

[severe helm]

I mean it's like losing an arena cuz you overlapped trinkets against rmp

[outer sky]

Both me and whoever I stepped to would get 1 shot

[severe helm]

but yeah in terms of the combination of punishign to difficult I would put pve at more punishing but less difficult than pvp

[wise sequoia]

I see many similarities.

But high end pve sounds even more scripted. They can practice the dungeon endlessly, to the point where they play at a difficulty where any mistake is game over.

[severe helm]

yeah its definitely more scripted

[wise sequoia]

Not sure how pugging works then.

Does everybody know the script for every comp/dungeon combination? Or is it just much more facerolling where you just kinda sus out who kicks first etc?

[severe helm]

everyone does it different tbh

there are routes

but you need to do some customization often

and assignments

[outer sky]

I pugged ridiculously high in bfa. You need to be in comms and preplan a ton

[severe helm]

you can do high keys without comms

[outer sky]

You definitely couldnt then

Shit must've changed

People would require discord for a +17

[severe helm]

yeah weak auras got better tbh

and assignments are more clear/organized I thnk

[outer sky]

People also have more tools now i think

Back then not everyone had enough CC to lock down mobs

Wonder how it'll be without WAs

[wise sequoia]

Funny how this pvp channel has sold me more on mythic+ than any other discord/subreddit I have been on 😛

I wish the pve channels were as encouraging about pvp!

Gotta 💤 though. Got a beeswax class in eight hours

[outer sky]

If you want to do m+ by pugging you NEED to play a meta spec. Its not like pvp where theres a meta but some off meta specs can still work with certain comps so you can still get invites to those. If you need to pug and youre off meta you WILL sit in LFG for HOURS without a single invite. Its miserable. Thats why I stopped doing it.

Literally people will spam decline you for a key lower than one you've already done for that same dungeon if youre not playing something meta

[obsidian pulsar]

New addon allows you to track friendly/enemy CDs

The addon is called Mvq UI

Thank me later weakauras are back

[outer sky]

That will get nuked before launch

They need to ban that guy tbh

[potent pivot]

only noobs need this stuff

[severe helm]

isnt this blizzards fault

how can you blame the addon makers

[outer sky]

Trickz was saying some shit got canned for being considered an "exploit"

[severe helm]

if its using blizzards api

then its fair game imo

and if its too op

blame blizzard

for being incompetent

[outer sky]

I think I do that plenty often

[potent pivot]

they already stopped mvq from making this once

[severe helm]

I encourage all possible ways to fuck with blizzards shit ui changes

[potent pivot]

whatever dev is making this for him just found a different work around

[severe helm]

it motivates blizzard to do better work

[potent pivot]

they literally said before removing the addons

that 'tracking team and enemy CDs was going to go away'

[severe helm]

yeah

so they need to do better haha

cuz clearly theyre failing

[potent pivot]

this is one of the only things that i am opposed to being in the game

anything resembling weakauras, omniCD/omnibar, etc

[severe helm]

I also think it shouldnt be in the game

[potent pivot]

make the players play the game

[severe helm]

I think team would be nice visually

like if I can see if my healer has a trinket

[potent pivot]

team would be nice for shuffle

[severe helm]

but enemy cds fuck that

[potent pivot]

thats it

[severe helm]

regardless though

this is 10000% blizzards responsibility

[potent pivot]

they can make a default UI for team CDs for shuffle

[outer sky]

I kinda think something like OmniCD is fine seeing as the most played game mode is shuffle.

[potent pivot]

and not have it in 3s

[outer sky]

All that other shit can go

[potent pivot]

nah have that shit turn on in shuffle only

[severe helm]

and I and many otehr people have discussed THIS EXACT risk which is that the result will be more exclusive addons that are just as powerful but now the power isnt distributed

blizzards incompetence is going to fuck over the players

if they dont get their shit together

[potent pivot]

is there even a way to report this kinda shit

[grave basin]

doesnt matter, rwf will have all kinds of exploits no normie will ever find out about

and blizzard will close an eye as usual

[potent pivot]

echo might, liquid won't

[grave basin]

i mean

depends on what you mean also what do you mean by exploit

like lets say

[potent pivot]

you know that their addon analysts are actively talking to blizzard right?

[grave basin]

i designate coordinate 50.50 on my map

to mean some mechanic

[outer sky]

Blizzard may have intentionally went soft on the rules seeing as a lot of the feedback was negative. Blizzard hates admitting they got something wrong. I dont think the addon change is necessarily a bad thing but I definitely think they should have kept addons until they were 100% sure their new UI was suitable as a replacement.

[grave basin]

and i ping it

[potent pivot]

to make sure they don't overstep

[grave basin]

is that an exploit

[potent pivot]

everything you're saying

doesn't matter

[grave basin]

what

[grave basin]

you really think they tell blizzard everything?

[potent pivot]

they are making sure nothing they do will be an exploit

[grave basin]

rwf are known cheaters

[potent pivot]

yes i fucking do lmao

it's their careers

[grave basin]

they literally exploit every tier

[severe helm]

Think about it this way, if you're finding out about these add-ons existing then the makers are doing the right thing

[grave basin]

sneak.lua?

[potent pivot]

again

echo

..

[grave basin]

yea i said rwf

[severe helm]

Echo does cheat often yeah

[grave basin]

liquid can be boy scouts if they want

[potent pivot]

echo is garbo

[severe helm]

Liquid less so

[potent pivot]

half of them left

race already over

[outer sky]

Do you guys remember when they announced that you wouldnt be able to swap covenants in SL and EVERYONE said "this is a horrible idea" but then blizzard jut leaned into "meaningful choice"? Then like a year after SL came out theyre like "we're shaking things up! You can swap covenants now!!" Like obviously youre changing it because it was badly received why not just listen to us the first time

[severe helm]

The problem with the addon thing is if they cave then all this bullshit was for nothing

They need to stick to their guns and fucking do better

[grave basin]

i remember hopeful mage

getting banned on main mage for account sharing or piloting or some shit

then he just made another mage and blizzard said ok no probs

lmao

[potent pivot]

thats such a non issue

[grave basin]

yea but reckful gets permad

[severe helm]

That's also super unrelated to what we're talking about haha

[grave basin]

for the same thing

[potent pivot]

why are we bringing up something over a decade old

[severe helm]

What would the report be though? He made an addon using blizzard provided API that is too good?

What's even against the rules here

[potent pivot]

they specified they were going to remove this type of functionality

[severe helm]

That's on them haha

[grave basin]

mvq is using API calls that blizzard didnt close in MOP

[severe helm]

Report blizzard

[grave basin]

so it's on blizzard for being incompetent

[severe helm]

They also said they would deliver working substitutez

[outer sky]

Theyre gunna cave bro we all know it. But personally if I were a blizzard dev right now id be genuinely embarrassed. Because the way it looks at face value is that this mulit billion dollar company cant stop these 3rd party addon creators from putting stuff into their game that they dont want and that is an embarrassment to a company of this size. Like the xpac isnt even over yet and we're already almost back to where we were after blizzards "crackdown". Its a joke

[grave basin]

they can and should close those apis

[potent pivot]

we can still inform them

..

[severe helm]

And the damage meter is still missing half the details functionality

[severe helm]

Oh sure

I thought you meant report the people using the addon

[grave basin]

im willing to bet that by s1 w1

half the shit we have now will be patched

[severe helm]

They aren't guilty of anything

But being resourceful/clever

[potent pivot]

the people making it sure

[grave basin]

theres just no way blizzard is gonna be embarassed as fuck

to have the EXACT shit we lost

1 : 1

reverse engineered

[severe helm]

The people making it also aren't breaking any rules if I understand correctly

Blizz just needs to catch up

They should be made aware though

[potent pivot]

they were already told to stop making it because it was an exploit afaik

[severe helm]

That they're not doing their job

[outer sky]

Blizzard doesnt pay very well maybe these developers just cant do anything about it lol

[potent pivot]

noticeably as well mvq hasn't tweeted that this one is up... i wonder why

[severe helm]

Yeah I'd need to understand the details more to see how t would be an exploit

I looked through the last addon code

And it wasn't exploitative just clever

Using a mistake from blizz

That was sending information they probably didn't intend to

[outer sky]

Leave it to blizzard

[potent pivot]

sounds like an exploit to me

[outer sky]

"Oops"

[potent pivot]

perma ban em

[severe helm]

It really wasn't

Haha

Blizz API had a "important spells" flag

That were essentially tied to offensives

So you could detect presence of enemy offensives via the nameplate API

So you just interpret what is "important" for a given spec

[potent pivot]

#permabanhim

[severe helm]

Lol exactly

Blizz literally served it on a platter

Dipshits

[outer sky]

Love how those literally are "all the important rogue spells" lol

[potent pivot]

the fact that players need these pop ups when these cooldowns are already in THREE PLACES on their screens is astounding to me

like how fucking bad do you have to be

[severe helm]

Luckily for blizz the important spells flag is broken for defensive

Or was the last time I read through the addon

So that tracking wasn't working hahahaha

[outer sky]

https://tenor.com/view/task-failed-successfully-failed-task-unsuccessful-gif-12712941334656975969

[severe helm]

LOL guess blizz fixed their flag

[outer sky]

Well the good thing about this is that it will basically force an answer from blizzard as to what is and isnt allowed

They could also make certain addon features non tos and bannable for using them like they do with AHK software

So if they cant get the API right just use intimidation

Declare anyone using these addons a cheater

[strange trellis]

As long as that spy addon doesnt come back and tell you that people are stealth nearby

[severe helm]

Yeah that's what I'm hoping

AT LEAST mvq is making this public

[severe helm]

I mean the loud ass stealth sound is more than enough

[strange trellis]

not if youre already stealth

[severe helm]

It plays when you go near someone

If you ever are within defection range even for a millisecond

P sure that's all spy monitored anyway

[strange trellis]

pretty sure the addon picked up on it loooong before that though

[severe helm]

It's not like it actually saw through stealth

[strange trellis]

Just knowing someone is stealth nearby is a pretty big difference than not knowing when it comes to reaction time alone, not to mention things like guarding flags in BGs

most people hate Rogues because they are generally caught unprepared

[outer sky]

We literally have a pvp talent that does this for the enemy team lmfao

[strange trellis]

yea and who uses it? And its a pretty big difference between I chose to out myself and I am forcefully outed by not a class skill but an addon of all things

[outer sky]

I just think its funny that one of our pvp talents is so shit that people would install an addon to replicate one of the functions is has when we take it

[grave basin]

you know the devs dont pvp from the pvp talents

ww has an aoe para ability

and used to take off all your teammates dots and put them on dr

for like a 3 second para

[strange trellis]

Ah okay fair... yea... just... terrible... on the bright side they still need to be paying attention to their buffs and debuffs lol

[grave basin]

actually it still removes dots

they also made one of the best pvp talents ever, rising dragon punch

and made it tie into a talent we cant really take anymore

cause it's now a 5+ target ability

so yea RIP knockup

[outer sky]

People complained hard about that

[grave basin]

my fav moment in awc

was watching F tier play ww enhance

the ww would knock someone up and enhance tstormed the bozo like 40 yards away

was cinema

[outer sky]

Literally just give me keefers dash back and my ww dreams will be realized

[grave basin]

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/apQOO8OByaI

[outer sky]

Yep thats about right. WW and warrior suffer the most from shit like that

[grave basin]

atleast this patch i cant get blastwaved

or frostbite

[outer sky]

Yeah but now mages can blink every stun. Even the DRd ones

[grave basin]

they could already do that previously

just had to give up shimmer

[outer sky]

No

They could not

[grave basin]

what

[outer sky]

They could only blink 1

If you restunned

Theyd have to sit it

Now the restun doesnt even matter

[grave basin]

i mean if a mage is playing blink stun youre not killing him

makes him a complete non target

or am i cooked

[outer sky]

But now thats every mage every game

So they lost blast wave

But they still dont die

[grave basin]

and frost bite and SLOW

but now they get 2x shield

team mass invis

wtf is the cd on that mass invis btw

[outer sky]

Invis is like a 30s long CD its insane

[grave basin]

i love pressing focus arena healer over and over

[outer sky]

I gave up

On that

I got sick of it

Just tab

[grave basin]

half the time my frames bug out and i cant even focus target

i literally have to

target the healer type /focus

[outer sky]

So archaic

[grave basin]

started to even use this cause i cba

had these in macro form for the longest time

/target [@arena3]

using the latest keybinding tech now...

i like how theres STILL 5 ARENA TARGETS

and theres no more 5v5 bracket

[outer sky]

Hasn't been since when like mop?

[grave basin]

Who knows

Long enough

[strange torrent]

whats the best pvp talents for sub?

[potent pivot]

pins

or do you mean the literal 3 pvp talents

[strange torrent]

the 3 pvp talents

[potent pivot]

bomb, preemptive, disarm

you can kinda swap around preemptive/disarm depending on comps, but there's not too much else worth a damn

the tricks pvp talent is good to buff a team mate if you don't need one of the two

[strange torrent]

i kinda liked control is king, but bomb and disarm have seemed mandatory

[potent pivot]

disarm is only useful into things you can disarm, but ye

control is king is pretty useless

especially for sub rn

no energy issues, and after your first evis you have slice n dice up for the rest of the game for free anyway

[potent pivot]

harder to time

[subtle warren]

I saw nahj using it on mages ?

Cause they have 20 blinks

Acts as an extra gap closer

Oh you said, that I can’t read this early am

[molten hedge]

Why aren’t ppl talking ab destro rn it does stupid dam

[topaz oriole]

Isn't destro getting some big nerfs next week though

[outer sky]

The animation takes too long thats the big issue with it

Takes half your stun to finish

I wish they'd just get rid of shit like that man its stupid

Like making shit take longer than a GCD to do because they're trying to make it "stylish"

The same issue with coup de grace

You gap your stun with it

Like fix all that shit

[vale steppe]

Do we aim for some haste as sub?

[outer sky]

Yeah 22-30% on prepatch

[vale steppe]

Even in pvp?

[outer sky]

Yes

[vale steppe]

In PvP or outside?

[outer sky]

In

[vale steppe]

Ty

Then mastery?

[outer sky]

Yep

[vale steppe]

0 crit?

[outer sky]

Can run some crit too since we have modifiers for it

[vale steppe]

Ty boss

[outer sky]

Np

[subtle warren]

anyonehaving issues iwth sarena? Mine just doesn't load sometimes...

[plush delta]

I haven’t touched pvp much recently as lately my playtime is mostly steam deck/controller but wanted to go for the transmog in s1 midnight

Is chat comms used much in the random rated bgs and could I get buy with some hot keyed call out macros?

[vale steppe]

@outer sky can you send some talents?

[potent pivot]

pins

[potent pivot]

in game chat isn't used at all nah

you could maybe get by with macros for pings, but call outs? there's too many different bases and shit to call out i think

[plush delta]

I have pings setup so maybe I’ll just send some and see how it goes

For call-outs I was thinking of an opie ring per BG

Probably not worth the effort but kind of just want to see how it goes

[potent pivot]

oo that could actually work yeah

sounds like a pretty good idea might be worth a shot

i rarely blitz so idk if call outs even matter just for 1.8k games

in my experience you can play the solo q brackets with chat disabled though so

[spring bough]

Proving grounds with 100 ilvl gear is actually fun 😭

[grave basin]

does it give conquest

spookycow needs to get decked

[static holly]

No

[spring bough]

Only honor

[molten hedge]

@potent pivot since we’re not able to play double vanish atm with the capstone thing in prepatch, wouldn’t fade to nothing be better than cloaked in shadows

[spring bough]

Yk what would be cool and piss off paladins?

If void abilities could hit thru holy shields

[outer sky]

I still think DHs should be immune to searing glare

[spring bough]

I found out with Devourer that interrupts on consumption lock all abilities 😭

Bout to rock a precog gem for it with season 1

[outer sky]

Yeah and apparently getting disarmed as devo really fucks you up

[spring bough]

Been having fun with it tho. Slaps a lot of damage

[outer sky]

It sure does

Probably piss easy to play too

[outer sky]

I kinda think this is how every caster should be ngl

Like if you get kicked you shouldn't be able to cast at all

Because a 3s lockout on 1 magic school ain't worth the possibility of giving precog

Lockout needs to be longer or more shit needs to be locked

[spring bough]

Yeah until your spell locked from everything for 5 seconds 😭

Then just running around doing absolutely nothing

Reap/eradicate tho procs a free cast on eruption so it’s kinda nice to do that and not get caught casting

[dark kernel]

I disarm immediately after the hunt

On those fuckers

Eat shit blind asses

They should make disarm last double time since they can't see their weapons to pick em up

[potent pivot]

Ngl not running double vanish only loses you 1 cast per game so idk if it makes enough of a difference. I think both talents are fine

[dark kernel]

We also can run 3 other end talents AND get the 30% vanish heal

[jolly sierra]

got the t3 warr shoulders on mop classic, no one bid on them wtf

[dark kernel]

...I mean why bother lol

I've always thought in wow classic "if it falls in my lap"

[jolly sierra]

cuz all of this will go to retail in future according to what devs were considering

i am just preparing for the long pace

[gleaming sentinel]

blue name

[dark kernel]

I loved DF and TWW outlaw play style but I'm not going to gimp myself further

Plus I like to show what I'm actively playing just for advice

[spring bough]

He betrayed outlaw 😭

[gleaming sentinel]

only like 3 of us left

[outer sky]

To be fair the gap between the rogue specs hasn't been bigger than this in a really long time

[gleaming sentinel]

yea i just dont enjoy sub or assa at all

[molten hedge]

I do really like the mobility of fade to nothing

[outer sky]

Cloaked in Shadows gives me peace of mind because it makes it impossible to "die through vanish" like we could before

Its just nice knowing that as long as i have vanish i basically cant die

[molten hedge]

I have been killed through vanish many times, but it was the ddh cheese a while back

[outer sky]

Thats just the game being bad

[dark kernel]

I don't enjoy Assa at all, like I used to QUIT THE GAME than play that spec I just had to adapt

Because I like pvp enough

[gleaming sentinel]

yea managing dots just not my jam

[molten hedge]

troooo

[outer sky]

I just logged into beta, queued a shuffe as assa, logged out, and grabbed a beer

this shit's depressing af

[spring bough]

Time to level a Devourer

About to be alt blasting with one

[outer sky]

for some reason other classes don't really click with me

[gleaming sentinel]

im gonna play 2 outlaws, and just play the game a lot less. rofl

[dark kernel]

When I dislike wow I tend to play LoL

Rengar, Jax, shaco, Trynda

Real hard though because baby waking = gg for me lmao

[proven field]

12% buff coming tuesd though so maybe a bit better

[outer sky]

whats 0x1.12?

[proven field]

They’ll need sub soon and it will cause assa to be bumped up more

Nerf*

Outlaw always seems to just be pve spec - if it’s viable it’s only because they screwed up in pve tuning and accidentally made it useful

RMP always tunes viable, warriors always tuned viable, rest get to ride waves

[gleaming sentinel]

Which honestly, in shuffle if you know how to pump and stun correctly it’s probably gonna be fine

[proven field]

Agreed - I think part of what makes specs like assa and outlaw feel bad is because some specs are so overtuned it feels like you’re being deliberately obstinate by not playing them

I could work my ass off to push out….12k dos burst as outlaw or just… press five buttons as surv and do 40k

[outer sky]

Lol what was it all for?

@potent pivot

[potent pivot]

I hope they perma ban you too.

[dark kernel]

Waking dude, waking up in the middle of the night while I'm in the middle of the game

It takes like 2 to 3 games of going afk, even briefly or just having to leave for your account to get like two week banned.

Playing League of Legends with a small child is very very difficult

[outer sky]

I can see banning the creators but banning the users until they make any kind of formal statement about it at least would be a bit much

[dark kernel]

I hope every single one gets pruned. And I hope blizzard goes scorched Earth and just tells everybody fuck you no add-ons at all

I am a legit masochist with this game though I don't mind playing without add-ons

[potent pivot]

I didn’t say users. Just you as well.

Just busting your balls

[grave basin]

Im considering just binding the red ping button

[outer sky]

doesnt tell people when

[grave basin]

Instead of typing in chat

[outer sky]

didnt want him to blow his load early

these are pugs idk them

[grave basin]

Like 90% no one reads that

Or reads it in time

[outer sky]

these guys were on top of it

[grave basin]

Can i keybind pings to arena targets

123

I swear pings really help in shuff

[potent pivot]

I think so

Bare minimum u can do target/focus

So you should be able to

[severe helm]

Don't blame the player

Blame the game lol

[potent pivot]

Nah fuck this player in particular

[severe helm]

I mean truuuuu

[potent pivot]

I think u can just do /ping [@arena1]

[outer sky]

And here I was going to offer you wholesale pricing on whatever pistol you decided to purchase smh

[subtle warren]

Has anyone had sarena just stop working sometimes?

[wise sequoia]

I really hate the ‘need’ to set up addons. And if everyone else has them and they offer a sizeable advantage, then we do ‘need’ them to be competitive.

Its cumbersome and feels like you are competing in the game by how well you do outside playing the game. Its not that different from paying for an advantage:

Got six hours to work at McDonalds to make you character stronger? Got six hours to optimize your weakauras to present information other players dont have?

… that being said …

How are we supposed to play the game when vital information is hidden without addons? How would you like playing PvE if all mechanics were blurry and hidden by a clutter of ground effect? If listening and responding to sound cues is vital, but they diminish by range and every effect makes pointless noise?

It would suck! And so blizzard tries to fix frustrations which makes it hard to play the game as intended. PvE shouldn’t have invisble mechanics … everyone agrees!

Then why is pvp supposed to have invisible mechanics? Without the addons, how are you supposed to see that the lock is rooted? Has spell reflection? That the healer is cycloned?

This vital information is either completely obscured or hidden in tiny icons.

Yes I hate addons. But I like the game better when I can see mechanics, instead of everything being hidden equally for everyone.

[outer sky]

All of this makes sense when you internalize the fact that they never intended pvp to be real end game content. You're supposed to do it while you wait for your raid to start.

All of these complaints are downstream of that

Like, we just now got a DR tracker in the base UI

PvP at any real level, even like Rival level, is practically unplayable without one

[severe helm]

Oh can you? That's kind of op

[outer sky]

and has been since day 1

and they didnt gaf to add one until a few weeks ago

and even then that still probably had a pve focus

[severe helm]

Yeah I mean the idea that this change was gonna level the playing field was a bit farfetched

It's still an arms race to who has the most powerful ui

[wise sequoia]

I just feel like the vital information should be accessible. It ridiculous that you can run up to someone in game and consider using a big cooldown - like hammer of justice - and you have zero ways to know if the opponent is immune.

Yeah, having logic in addons that tell you when to do things is a problem. Tracking all enemy CDs is tedious. Relying on healers to call every team defensive is unfair.

But having the game tell you that an opponent - obscured by 500 glowing visuals - is using their main offensive cooldown is not cheating! Its vital information that you need to play the game.

Unless they drastically change the severity of damage to the point where missing a couple mechanics isn’t an auto loss.

[severe helm]

Yeah they intended for this to be available

By they're having trouble with the execution

As is the story of blizzard

Good idea bad execution

[wise sequoia]

If I could just see DRs, vital buffs/debuffs and have sound cues for trueshot/combustion/ect. then I would be happy.

Bonus points if it was a core part of the game - not an addon.

I also personally love gladiatorlossa … but I can see that being a bit controversial. To me it doesn’t add any logic, just gives me information that should be in the game or is accessible from staring at castbars. And I dont want to stare at castbars.

[grave basin]

I tried to bring up those points before and i keep getting boomers saying "like how we used to before weak auras"

Aka with our eyes

And its like

[outer sky]

https://tenor.com/view/community-ken-jeong-ben-chang-cant-see-small-gif-5154350

[grave basin]

I didnt recall playing wotlk and having my screen be cluttered with 50 billion pets

[outer sky]

me trying to see what buffs the destro lock has before I die in 2 globals

[grave basin]

Or 20 vfx explosions

Cause everyone is m+ rotations now

I mean look at devourer lol just covering your screen with piss

Back when things were WAY more telegraphed with ST rotations in arena and the pace of the game was slow af

Like in tbc maybe you had room to breath and see the rogue popped eva

[outer sky]

Heres what I don't understand

Why are people against making whats going on in the game obvious

why should I have to look at tiny buffs on portraits

i dont get it

[grave basin]

Now its like evoker and bm hunters and mages just throwing explosions everywhere

And locks summoning 20 pets

How tf am i supposed to see shit

How do i see blur

[outer sky]

It's a really weird debate to have

I dont get what the big deal is

if a CD is used

make it obvious

why not?

[sharp sierra]

started playing aff lock a bit

i feel bad for every lock i ever perma cc'd in arenas

[grave basin]

Make every cd like combust

[potent pivot]

how so? you can already bind it in base settings

[grave basin]

Visually

[potent pivot]

you can do [@mouseover] pings too

[subtle warren]

Ya the spell and pet clutter is literally insane

[potent pivot]

but they do that auto don't they

[subtle warren]

There’s no way to tell who is using what by looking

[severe helm]

Like you can ping on a person moving in for cc

Kinda nice imma def bind that

[subtle warren]

I could play classic wow without a UI and literally tell you everything that’s going on

Idk if they can ever replicate that now though

[severe helm]

Hate having to watch my teammate die to lack of awareness in shuffle

[outer sky]

thats actually how most people play it trust me

[severe helm]

This is kinda my main issue with the blizz baseline UI solution is that you're put in a position of who can deal with their UI the best

[subtle warren]

It would be kind of nice I do like just being able to look at the “battlefield” and the ui be secondary

But just too much going on now

Literally can’t even see dks lmao

[severe helm]

So I think we still need to have some control

[subtle warren]

Surrounded by 5000 critters

[grave basin]

every cd should be BIG and obvious

infernal

wings

combust

pets all combined to one pet

that just gets stronger

rotations should go back to ST focused

but we're way past the point of making these kinda changes tbh

[severe helm]

I mean there's some specs without CDs like that tbh

Like shadow priest

Void form isn't always their kill condition

So like should players be able to track their silence CD

Like I will be starting a timer to track stuff myself probably

Just knowing most comps do a go every 30-45 seconds

[grave basin]

idk, the line gets blurry real quick

it was kinda cool to pop blades and not be INSTA DISARMED 0.00000000000000001

but it was also kinda dumb thatsuch a cd isnt well telegraphed

you kinda just do an animation and that's it

atleast now you can "see" it via default ui

[molten hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/smg4-smg4skill-issue-skill-issue-smg4mario-smg4skill-gif-26104493

[outer sky]

youre supposed to blades a bit early, sit the CC, then dance while youre on DR and still have blades

[grave basin]

how exactly do i prevent myself from being disarmed in shuff with only 2 cheap charges

it's ok bro just try and see if the sp has dispersion up

with dk auto applying 20 debuffs and covering the screen with purple piss

literally CANNOT EVEN SEE THE SP

his model

[outer sky]

Skill issue

[grave basin]

eyes issue

just use your eyes bro

like the old days

bro

dont forget every spell SP has is also a purple fart cloud bro

so good luck magnifying glass.gif on his buffs

bro

[severe helm]

I have a solution

delete all pet specs

[grave basin]

nah pet specs can stay but consolidate all their power into one pet

atmost 1 perma pet + 1 cd pet and that's it

delete zoo specs

[hexed blaze]

any assa enjoyers in beta feeling good about the new changes?

[outer sky]

No

[subtle warren]

Ya wtf is the 50x pet thing

How does that get through qa

I wish you could disallow list animations

Like you couldn’t add anything to give you ad advantage, but it would be so nice to remove the 50 random purple glow buffs so you could see disperse when it’s used

[spring bough]

Feels like all these pet classes just get more and more minions 😂

[severe helm]

lol "QA"

[sharp sierra]

do you play on 720p?!?!

[grave basin]

1080 from petkick's stream

[dusk trench]

Is airborne irritant bugged or is the tooltip just not accurate? It still seems to apply blind to nearby enemies

Thought they removed that

[dark moon]

Valid crash out

I don't like the 420692026 pets clutter

[severe helm]

People don't know the intention

So tooltip might be wrong or could be bugged and is still giving aoe when it shouldn't

[hidden mirage]

nobody knows

[cinder kettle]

hey guys, what's outlaws's kill window in pvp?

I seem to not be able to burst properly

[potent pivot]

outlaw isn't really a burst spec

[cinder kettle]

yeah that's what I felt aswell

so how do you play it in pvp then? just attrition them?

[grave basin]

Brawl

Pretend youre a fury warrior with kidney shot

And gouge

[gusty hedge]

[stoic spruce]

"Isn't really" implies it had a modicum of burst that could be confused as such.

[stoic spruce]

It's NOT a burst spec. It's a rot spec, you do your rotation and drain the healers mana.

[subtle warren]

For disarms, it’s pally, warriors, dk, rogue, hunter.
Is it worth it to disarm ww or havoc dh as well?

Oh and enh Sham I assume is a yes?

[potent pivot]

not really

otherwise about right

[molten hedge]

I feel like DH isn’t bad they can’t use a lot of stuff. Sure they can glimpse it but still

[crisp imp]

hi 🙂
how to implement smokebomb in burst rotation?
after first cs?

[potent pivot]

don't think of it as trying to learn an exact "rotation"

you won't really get anywhere like that

[crisp imp]

i dont. i am just curious about at what moment people think its most efficient

[potent pivot]

right as the CC on the healer is ending

think about the most oppurtune times to hide the enemy target from their healer

[crisp imp]

makes sense

although i would want the enemy to stay hidden as long as possible. which would be inside stuns

[potent pivot]

if their healer is already sitting a fresh CC, you'd be wasting part of the bomb

[potent pivot]

i mean ye it goes without saying you want the kill target stunned

i'm just saying you don't want to blind healer->kidney kill target->insta bomb

[crisp imp]

and now my, admittetly theoretical question was, SB before or after (first) stun

i understand

[potent pivot]

this one is a bit weird because you can do it multiple ways

you can try blowing blades alone to see if it baits CC on you, or you can make sure to cross CC the enemy team properly then send

[crisp imp]

mmm, ye. i mean, if i first smokebomb -> stun on kill target, he has a chance to get away somehow since smokebomb is on globals. if i stun -> smokebomb, i lose burst
so i was just wondering what might be the best solution

[subtle warren]

might be dumn question, but what're people using for step->kick macro? If you just do 2 /casts, pressing it twice will use your second shadowstep charge at melee range

cast sequence? 2 buttoms?

[potent pivot]

What SB are you talking about? It isn’t a GCD

Ohh u mean bomb

I thought you meant shadow blades when u said SB lmao

[dark kernel]

If you hit the shadow step and kick macro in rapid succession it won't step twice

[crisp imp]

oh sorry yeah haha.. i mean bomb, not shadow blades 🙂

[potent pivot]

It just depends on what other CC is happening

If you blind healer-> kidney KT you can do a couple globals before bomb->cheap->etc

[crisp imp]

alright, thanks
so generally i'd want to "chain" bomb to CC on healer, basically

gonna try that 🙂

[subtle warren]

okay wait how far can demon huntes see stealth?

[vocal surge]

Render Distance

[subtle warren]

i swear devour can get me out from 40 yards? Also, is there ever a reason why you wouldn't be able to cheap shot out of stealth?

I need to vod but sometimes it's greyed out

am I just getting knocked out righ tbefore i open and not realizing?

[dark kernel]

Probably. Since we don't run Subter right now the moment stealth ends it's over.

I notice that too, when I vanish and it'll get broken before I can stun

[dark moon]

Their spells are 25-35 yards in meta

[subtle warren]

but they can stealth detect that far? Like I'm going to sap healer with DH near them and they legit bang me from 20 +

it felt like 30 last game

Is it worth/possible to swap to a weapon chain against comps that can disarm?

I know that was a classic thing...

getting yoinked on a go feels horrible

okay sorry I asked like 6 questions I'm going to reformat.

1. Can DH see you from stealth dramatically farther than others?
2. Is there ever a time where you're in stealth and unable to cheap shot? (pressing dance makes it so I can)
3. are there any update resources like https://www.allwowpvp.com/spells to see all the relevant defensives for each class that would make them immune to stuns/kicks.
4. disarm protection possible/ worth it?
5. Is there a list of target priority anywhere? I know this isn't exact but like when I see ele sham/demo lock/havoc/devourer I have no idea if one of those is squishy and one isn't

ty - edit removed linked

[grave basin]

disarm protection?

there isnt any weapon chain anymore

[molten hedge]

I believe there was a bug with one of their abilities they use to get fury that gets you out of stealth from far

[grave basin]

1. yes, spectral sight ability reveals all stealthed units https://www.wowhead.com/spell=188501/spectral-sight
2. cheap shot only has 2 charges so maybe you ran out of charges? also they could already be fully immune to stuns after 2 DRs

4. no

5 really depends...

[molten hedge]

I just step sap their spectral sight then swap it to healer. I’ve also gotten a few to fel rush the wrong way with distract for funsies

Or you can also just wait out there sight. You won’t get a sap but you get a cleaner opener

[molten hedge]

2. If you’re playing the build in the pins, you’re not playing subterfuge so if you’re out of stealth you can’t stun

Outside of dance ofc

[potent pivot]

it doesn't have charges tho

[grave basin]

whatdo you call this then

[potent pivot]

i call it you pressing dance

[subtle warren]

The cheap shot thing is always beginning of the game, I sap one and then go to cheap the other and I literally can’t

[potent pivot]

[grave basin]

and getting a free charge of cheap

[subtle warren]

And then I dance and I can.

[potent pivot]

he's talking about being actual stealthed

[subtle warren]

Idk I must be getting yoinked out kd stealth but I’m like 99% sure I’m still stealthed….

[grave basin]

but he says he's pressing dance...

[subtle warren]

It’s happened multiple times

[grave basin]

[subtle warren]

Going to record the next one

[potent pivot]

he said pressing dance makes it so he can

[grave basin]

ah..

[potent pivot]

[grave basin]

ok...

[potent pivot]

bis emote

[grave basin]

do you have subterfuge speced?

[subtle warren]

I used to but not anymore

but sap doesn't break stealth anyway?

or do you mena, I was getting popped and then not noticing

because of subt

[grave basin]

if youre getting popped and you dont have subterfuge then you cant cheap

[subtle warren]

Yah

Like I said I'm 99% sure im NOT getting popped.

but it could be the case that I am sometimes and wasnt realizing it because I had subt

[grave basin]

if you did have subt then you would be able to cheap regardless

maybe record something

should i send it

[spring bough]

Send it

[grave basin]

sent it

3x sv hunters

[sharp sierra]

Smart dhs just throw immo up and sit on their healer waiting for the ferals/rogues to open if sight is down

When I played havoc last season I would just run in circles around my healer trying to bait an opener with aura, worked sometimes lmao

[dark kernel]

I made my hunter a vulpera. Little regret, but it will make people rage and that's the point

[dark moon]

thats not a question, its an answer

I approve

I confirm

[grave basin]

Survival?

[dark kernel]

Yeah. But I also legitimately like Marks too

I've not played a hunter since MoP

[grave basin]

Based and spearpilled

[dark kernel]

It's fun having a good version of killing spree

https://tenor.com/view/sad-troll-troll-face-trollge-gif-4344533683396770151

[grave basin]

hot damn

the legion remix mail set goes hard

[dark moon]

At first i thought its some girly set/robe

But fyralath ot whatever the name of the weapon is rocks

[grave basin]

this guy harpoon traps your healer what do you do

[dark kernel]

Feint the intim stun

[dark moon]

surrender

[lusty forum]

Am I crazy or Shadow blade doesn't give your the double combo point in PVP ? maybe there is a reason but i cannot find out

[stoic spruce]

imagine it got hit with the classic 50% nerf lol

[dark kernel]

It does, the difference is it used to just fill our bar.

[lusty forum]

so why my bar is not the same between pvp and pve ? in pve i have unlimited combo point to spend but in the other hand pvp is empty compared to the pve (and the only talents ive changed are not related obviously)

maybe my brain is fucked this evening but im sure this is not the same

[dark kernel]

What is your talents rn

I play sub and a lot of the time in pvp a single Shadow strike gets me 6 out of 7 filled

And I've been on beta a good bit

[lusty forum]

Im not in game but if im not wrong i have the same that the actual rank 1

https://murlok.io/character/eu/outland/àkròlolz/pvp

[potent pivot]

Ranks are meaningless atm and I think a couple of those are meh

[lusty forum]

that's my talents

OKAY STOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOP Im just stupid af

forget what i said have a good evening

[potent pivot]

[dark kernel]

You NEED Shadow craft it's not an option

[ionic forge]

When do you use Slice n Dice as sub in PvP

[dark kernel]

Never

You literally get it for free

By using eviscerate

[ionic forge]

Well look at that

I hadn't even noticed!

Thanks

[dark kernel]

No problem. It's probably best not to take it off your bar. But I will say as sub, I have literally never had to press it

[outer sky]

@potent pivot Bro get online the raid is looking for you they wont wait much longer and you're gunna lose your deposit and not get your mount

[severe helm]

hes too good to buy mounts

[outer sky]

he's coming

close call though

[lean pulsar]

whats best stat prio for sub rn?

[potent pivot]

a bit of haste > vers > mast > crit

[lean pulsar]

is it haste up to 35%?

[potent pivot]

nah you don't need that much

for prepatch atm around 22-23% is plenty i think

you can just stick with vers/mast gear as well

if you already have gear from s3

but when Midnight launches you'll want some haste for sure

[lean pulsar]

alr cheers

[dense thorn]

to get conquest tier (or honour) tier set, do i use the item that is conqueror's astral varnish or the catalyst after i bought the item?

[spring bough]

You use the varnish on pve tier if you have it and it’ll become max PvP ilvl. You can buy the PvP gear and catalyst it too

[sharp sierra]

already clapped

worse part is him claiming it wasnt using an exploit meanwhile it did, risking regular peoples accounts for junk AI code

[outer sky]

oh they nuked it already?

[sharp sierra]

yeah its using a known exploit

[outer sky]

have they banned the creator?

[sharp sierra]

they cant ban claude

but no lmao

still allowed to post stuff

[potent pivot]

https://klipy.com/gifs/this-is-the-best-feeling-right-now-anthony-edwards

now we have people running around with that still in their wow files abusing the exploit thanks to that guy

what an idiot

@severe helm

[sharp sierra]

LOL

a short story

"I dont get why it got removed"

"I know its an exploit"

[ionic forge]

Is there any addon that allows you to track DR on nameplates in BGBlitz?

[potent pivot]

Try MidnightDRs

But atm DR addons are all finicky

[ionic forge]

I'l give it a shot. Thanks!

[severe helm]

LOLLOLOLOL

[severe helm]

"We failed to design our addon APL properly and therefore consider it cheating if we dont like your addon"

blizz now at the point of inadequecy that they just handwave their addon restrictions instead of actually implement them

could have done this from the start lol

[severe helm]

whast the "laundering" in this case

[sharp sierra]

exploit using secret values

aka its always been a bannable offense

[severe helm]

the secret values are exposed by blizzard themself

what

blizz literally provided these api calls

if you check if something is a secret, and it returns that its a secret, then its like one step to figure out what possible ability that could be

[sharp sierra]

https://github.com/clicketz/lifebloom-glow/blob/master/LifebloomGlow.lua#L54

the function is on line 42

i think i can post this? i mean its in the wow addon dev discord

[hybrid sapphire]

playing BGs w music on... feels kinda epic in an old school way

[severe helm]

yeah the issecretvalue really seems problematic for them

cuz us knowing what abilities they want to hide

lets us know what abilities a "hidden" ability is

[outer sky]

I dont see any reason why they wouldn't ban mvq

Its happened more than once

[sharp sierra]

I think its 3 of his addons that did it?

not 100%

but people in that discord were roasting him for it

[severe helm]

I really think its maybe not the best response from them to not address this via improvements to their API and instead just call it an exploit

[outer sky]

Like just ban him lol

[severe helm]

what did he do but discover blizzards own problems

he could have kept it hidden

I bet others DID hide it

tbh

[sharp sierra]

Have they said anything about that being a no no?

[severe helm]

prior to this no

api is api

use it

do whatever you want

people are stretching blizzards intention to mean the law

ofc blizz doesnt want this

but that doesnt make it bannable imo

[outer sky]

Of course it isnt. Obviously they should fix their api so it does what they want. But theyre too inept to do that it seems so if someone is intentionally creating shit that they dont want and they've said they consider it an exploit and he keeps doing it then it only makes them look worse to NOT ban him

[severe helm]

someone else is gona make it

and keep it secret

dont shoot the messenger

if anything hes literally doing good here

[sharp sierra]

I doubt that function lasts much longer

[severe helm]

where others might have just kept this secret

like the cheating kick macro

that people used

FOR YEARS

literally

and hid it

[outer sky]

I think they'll start to treat these things the same way they treat AHK software

[severe helm]

that would be so so so fucking stupid

[outer sky]

Which you could totally use and never get caught

[severe helm]

building an addon using LITERALLY the functions blizzard provides

is so far from an AHK

[sharp sierra]

I mean they just barely got rid of most lua unlockers

so idk they are so slow with things

[severe helm]

I think blizzard doing anything but getting their ass in gear and trying to solve the problem is just bad handling of a situation that THEY CREATED for themselves

this is something that happens in stuff like F1

where the rules attempt to be very explicit

then teams find ways around it

and they dont just ban them

they improve the rules to patch the holes

[sharp sierra]

I feel like they are going to restrict addons not from verified sites before they even bother fixing it

[severe helm]

or a team gets an advantage for a season or two

[severe helm]

how

addons are locally stored files

thats not even possible

[subtle warren]

why do i see people playing Deepening shadows with no haste?

[sharp sierra]

necause its blizzard hehe

[severe helm]

but literally how

theres no method for them to do that

[sharp sierra]

thats the joke

lmao

[severe helm]

like this warning

is this from curseforge?

cuz like I could just apply this feature myself

[sharp sierra]

yeah its from curseforge

[severe helm]

yeah so theyre just preventing people from publishing these addons

which imo is kinda worse

since it means that only people in the know can use it

thats just making them more exclusive

[sharp sierra]

exploit is being posted everywhere so i doubt it lasts much longer

[outer sky]

Because its the "correct build" and people are just copying and pasting it but using their mastery gear from last season

[severe helm]

I hope its actually fixed

and not just swept under the rug

while people use a standalone version

[sharp sierra]

I mean if its stated its bannable idk thats a tricky line. People are saying anyone using it should be banned but imo i dont think thats the correct way at all

the CREATOR should be banned

[severe helm]

it isnt stated though lol

WHY

so ban blizzard

theyre the one who created this addons existence

they are who allowed it to be made

they provided the tools

[sharp sierra]

Thats why i asked if its stated

[severe helm]

I just dont understand this sentiment towards the creator

[sharp sierra]

i mean i would resonably assume messing with secret values is a no no

But thats just general reversing knowledge lmao if blizzard hasnt speicially said anything its fair game

Regardless they need to fix it

[severe helm]

its not a secret value bro

the function call is just called "secret value"

[spring bough]

“Hey Claude recreate me this addon”

[sharp sierra]

I understand that

[subtle warren]

Ah you mean correct for beta but not prepatch

[severe helm]

both

[subtle warren]

Lmao Blizz has some 10x engineers cooking right now

[potent pivot]

banning users inc

[sharp sierra]

Obviously blizzard shouldnt be dumb enough to let someone force the engine to process restricted data and leak it back bit but in any other game thats still cheating

[severe helm]

banned for using the API

wild

[sharp sierra]

regardless if "blizzard is dumb"

[severe helm]

next youre gona be banned for doing cross CC

cuz its too op

banned for fake casting

[sharp sierra]

brother

[severe helm]

banned for optimizing your gear using a sim

[potent pivot]

this sounds incredibly cope to me bud

[severe helm]

def banned for simming character thats extremely unfair

using 3rd party software to optimize

[sharp sierra]

^

[severe helm]

ban them all

[potent pivot]

using something they've specified they don't want people to be able to do

is not the same as anything you just said

[sharp sierra]

If i yoink offsets from CoD because they were bad at hiding it

Thats a bannable offense

its simple

[severe helm]

brother putting in the API

is specifying

that its okay to use

thats what an API is

[potent pivot]

who cares if its "possible to do right now"

if its not supposed to be done, its not supposed to be done

[severe helm]

because the API IS LITERALLY WHAT IS PERMITTED USE

[sharp sierra]

what

[severe helm]

its like saying you arent allowed to spec into short blind

and then leaving the talent in the game

I dont even understand whats up for debate here

[potent pivot]

[strange trellis]

Reminds me of Socom 2, an old PS2 shooter where some of the walls if you crawled just right you could phase through and shoot people from beyond the wall. So many people caught using it tried saying it was an intended secret in the game (a military shooter game btw lol)

[sharp sierra]

Thats the definition of exploit

bad code being abused

[severe helm]

Yeah I understand they dont want it used but I really just think its on them to remove it and not dance around calling it an exploit

[sharp sierra]

Its finding values that are meant to be hidden

i dont get the discourse

[severe helm]

this isnt even the first time this has happened

[subtle warren]

I think you’re both correct

[severe helm]

because they provided the function to find them?

[subtle warren]

It is literally in the api which means it’s supposed to be used

But also they probably fucked up

And have no option but to call it an exploit

[sharp sierra]

I think thats fair

[severe helm]

this is blizzards issue and the onerous is on them to resolve it

but yeah they might label it to scare people off

but I just really disagree with this witch hunt sentiment

of "BAN THE CREATOR"

who published this issue

and made it clear to everyone what was possible

during pre patch

when there isnt actually any competing going on

the fucking audacity to say to ban that person

is so fucking blind

I mean

genuinely

[potent pivot]

he knew it was an exploit