pvp

[mild lynx]

i didnt know this - so coup slows down your rotation by .2 sec? @wise sequoia

[dark kernel]

Yeah and that's kind of a pain point so we'll see.

[dark kernel]

Yea. You will gap a stun if coup is the finisher with the last second

[severe helm]

Lol yeah it's very silly

They're too dumb to realize this is peak design

[wise sequoia]

Lets all head over to beta and file a bug report for coup de grace - maybe they fix it 😛

could also report short blind while we are at it ^^

[severe helm]

we did this

before TWW

when we first encountered it

they dont care lol

[potent pivot]

Lol

I tried the same for the Singular Focus bug

They aren’t going to do anything about either of them

[potent pivot]

The coup thing has even had all the pve players complaining about it since before TWW

I remember people thought it got fixed at one point

Idr if that was placebo or what

[severe helm]

well as outlaw it used to not get reduced by adr

so it was a GIGA slow gcd

[potent pivot]

Ahh yeah that was it

[severe helm]

but now its reduced by adr(still down to 1s though)

instead of 0.8

[potent pivot]

It’s such a weird thing

[severe helm]

I think its cuz of the animation haha

or the charge

something about how its coded requires time

[potent pivot]

It’s gotta be the way the proc is coded

But so many other procs exist that don’t do this

[severe helm]

It must be some reused code

from like DFA

or something

[potent pivot]

The way the entire thing is coded is prolly jank af

[severe helm]

ye

[potent pivot]

A proc that procs after you proc 5 procs ….

[potent pivot]

Ye

Could be that as well

[severe helm]

thats usually what I lean towards for this stuff

like how supercharger still has the same bugs as ER did

cuz its just reused code

[potent pivot]

Brb guys gonna make you a brand new ability
copy, paste
Alright boys send it to the art team for an animation

[severe helm]

hahaha literally though

very accurate

I have a feeling thats what happened with new KS hitting random targets somehow

[gleaming sentinel]

Be cool
If they revert the restless blades nerf in PvP

[severe helm]

nice try

outlaw doesnt have any defensives on RB anymore

yet I bet they never unnerf it

[gleaming sentinel]

Jokes on them I’m gonna play outlaw anyway

[severe helm]

thats what they want 🙂

[dark kernel]

You know maybe if outlaw had hemorrhage back...

[dark kernel]

Yeah it actually needs it ...especially with how that shit spec is defensively now

[gleaming sentinel]

I’d settle with removing the stupid ass cd on cheap shot

[outer sky]

Have we considered shutting the discord down?

[potent pivot]

Lol

[unique garnet]

https://tenor.com/view/nuke-press-button-gif-14853646

pov your in the pally discord

[potent pivot]

Wouldn’t do anything anyway

Rogue just doesn’t have enough players to make enough noise for them to care

[gleaming sentinel]

Everyone’s in Stealth

[stoic spruce]

Damn rets creating a joke that'll get overused

They really are the worst

[livid cipher]

coolest class discord tho

no one else has a banger like this

[stoic spruce]

Idk

You can't call someone a silly monkey without people thinking it's a racial thing

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-spin-orangutan-meme-gif-17118773

[livid cipher]

yea but at least the mods let us have fun about Mafic

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1402352667464040569/1471870999665315892/wasupdud.png

[stoic spruce]

I wonder how long the inactive cooldown would have to be for the active cooldown to be 7 minutes

[severe helm]

nah its needed imo

I think they made a mistake giving sub double cheap shot but not the other specs

thats fucking insane to me

[stoic spruce]

Is it?

[severe helm]

yes

very

very very

[stoic spruce]

I mean

[severe helm]

its like giving only one mage spec poly

bro

[stoic spruce]

Who didn't see it coming?

It's sub RMPs world and we're just living in it

[severe helm]

yeah I hate it

[stoic spruce]

[gleaming sentinel]

outlaw rmp reigning blizzcon champs

i am coping

[spring bough]

https://x.com/snupytv/status/2022348254864978286?s=46&t=YKaisWqFkCTf8y-DfuEaHw

Snupy (@snupytv)

My Midnight Beta PvP tier list with a focus on solo shuffle ⚔️ #Midnight

X · Feb 13, 2026, 4:32 PM

At least outlaw isn’t F tier 😭

@potent pivot they patch notes airborne irritant 😂

[outer sky]

Snupy is a good player by any reasonable standards but hes far from someone who's tier lists id take as gospel

[grave basin]

Wizards keep on winning

[subtle warren]

Is airborne even worth it at only 50%?

[outer sky]

Probably not

[potent pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-nelson-muntz-laugh-laughing-haha-gif-10706899326741456109

[spring bough]

Fucking blizz smh

[outer sky]

For trickster outlaw it may still be okay. What would the CD be? If its close to 30s its still good

[spring bough]

Not sure what it’ll be gonna find out the 17th lol

[spring bough]

Think like 40seconds

[outer sky]

Damn still not worth

If it was like 35 maybe

Ngl im kind of fine with it

Because

I dont want to give up gouge

[potent pivot]

Our worst cc ability

[spring bough]

Would be like 45 with fatebound

[gleaming sentinel]

FUN DETECTED

anti rogue propaganda strikes again

[spring bough]

Didn’t even get a week out of it for season one 😭

[potent pivot]

Was that everything for rogue I’m assuming?

[spring bough]

That and the sin buff for PvP

[potent pivot]

Ye I meant the ss

Nice nice

[spring bough]

Sin got some pve buffs too

[molten hedge]

Some minor sub needs

Nerfs

[potent pivot]

What were they

[spring bough]

Unseen blade nerfed 5%

[spring bough]

lol

[potent pivot]

Nicee

[molten hedge]

Yeahhh

Assa is getting lots of buffs man shit adds up

[potent pivot]

Are these live changes

[spring bough]

Feb 17

[potent pivot]

Kk

[molten hedge]

Idk it just says Class Tuning Incoming

Assuming beta

Bc it mentions lvl 90

[potent pivot]

It should say beta

If it’s beta specific

[molten hedge]

I don’t see it. So it’s for prepatch and beta?

[potent pivot]

It’s for live ye

Just looked

[lime oar]

is the new sub build in the pins

the lame one

cuz of tree changes

[potent pivot]

Ye

[outer sky]

I cant really tell the difference between assa now and before the 13% buff

Idk if another 12% will help much

Next patch needs to say something like "all damage increased by 85%"

Then maybe you may play it in one or two comps as opposed to sub just because of the silence

[molten hedge]

Something like assa dev can be ok with dev having double deep

To make up for ur lack of stuns

[dark kernel]

February 17th brother

Or is that a prior buff.

[potent pivot]

Prior

[ocean thunder]

I just dont get what's teh point of garrote silence if you can only do it once every 2mins, especially if we don't get 2 vanish charges.
Darn, i enjoyed the playstyle of timing your vanish, applying mass garrotes for silence and damage and keeping that bleed pressure up.

How can 1 cheap shot + 1 garrote every 2mins ever compare to being able to do 2 x cheapshot and burst every 30 seconds?

It would make sense if assa had the equivalent for dance but work only on garrote or something

[dark kernel]

The gummy worm popsicle was delicious by the way

[potent pivot]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/sub-rogue-overtuned/2249596/11

Are people really so dense that they care about prepatch tuning?

[lime oar]

rip short blind enjoyers

[dark kernel]

There is no way that was going to stick

Being able to literally blind healer every kidney

We can still do it way more often than I think we should to be honest even after the nerves I'm still going to run the short blind

[ocean thunder]

i've told myself that I will just unpause my sub like 4-5 days before launch, but i keep looking at discord and tuning and news even though it's clear things will change a lot in the next couple of weeks

Then again, many whine uncontrollably to force nerfs on classes they dont like/understand and rogue is always a prime suspect

[gleaming sentinel]

FACTS

[gusty hedge]

if only this worked
do not enjoy outlaw anymore, hoping live feels better than beta when early access drops

[grave basin]

any pvp tuning this early is actually really good tbh

usually there's zero pvp tuning till first week of the season

unless it's dks getting thier defensives pre nerfed

[potent pivot]

Some of it isn’t though

Because they’re tuning based off a fucked up scaled prepatch

[grave basin]

the spirit is there

what isnt good

[potent pivot]

Like half of the tuning lol

[grave basin]

the pvp part of pve part?

im not sure with all the specs but loads of good changes i see

feral ST buffs, ww buffs to FOF cause they werent even pressing it fully, sp voidform is an actual button now

demo nerfs too thank fucking god

[potent pivot]

Multiple over the top warrior nerfs

Multiple unneeded sub nerfs

There’s a lot

[hybrid sapphire]

thats it?

w8 its not it

[stoic spruce]

Shut yo assa ass up

[stoic spruce]

^ This post was certified by real Outlaw

Patriots

[hybrid sapphire]

[knotty oxide]

where is zac then

[stoic spruce]

I said real outlaw

[stoic lava]

Is outlaw balling out

[stoic spruce]

Nuthin but net

https://tenor.com/view/abell46s-reface-memes-gustavo-petro-peinada-gif-20197791

[stoic lava]

im still sad about slow grapple

[grave basin]

it's time

[potent pivot]

Sorry did you say something?

[grave basin]

[spring bough]

i love addons lol

[wanton breach]

[hollow yoke]

There's russian gnomes oneshotting gdruids in pvp in bis gear

What did I miss

Barkskin and survival instinct up oneshot in 2 abilities

I didn't see it since my friend was the victim

[carmine sequoia]

Man I wish they stop nerfing the fun in rogue

Nerfed my grappling hook

Now the blind talent is getting nerfed as well

[gusty hedge]

one trick pony

[gleaming sentinel]

I was having fun with short blind but that got nerfed too lmao

[gusty hedge]

i got 12 on this account alone(All Law) not counting my main account

[gleaming sentinel]

Do you at least have different races? Lol

[dark kernel]

sorry guys

back to blue

[dark kernel]

JE S U S

[gusty hedge]

yes almost all races 😂

Multiple Ne/Orc on this account felt better to play plus mogs My main account has all the other races except dark iron zandalari, gnome,worgen/goblin

[dark kernel]

Very cool blizzard

the Stormwind PvP dummy cleaves

and there's no pvp dummy in silvermoon

and we cannot go to Dornogal

in beta

fucking god damnit

JK ITS JUST NOT WITH ANY OTHER OF THEM

[gleaming sentinel]

You are so based

12 outlaws random bg enjoyer

Living the dream

[gusty hedge]

i do have a rogue problem
i play other classes too but just not fun 😭

[gusty hedge]

i will deff still try to wpvp once early access is up

[dark kernel]

@wise sequoia I've been testing out your rotation and other ones on midnight beta dummy

its honestly not bad your method of stacking the apex for clone damage

but honestly my damage in dance go window using your method vs. just standard is honestly about the same

unless big crits

[spring bough]

I love it

[spring bough]

ive got 12 on this account as well LOL

im about to level up a void elf demon hunter today get a new Devourer ready lol

[gusty hedge]

glad im not the only one 🔥

[spring bough]

DH and rogue all xpack for me

have night elf and blood elf one now about to have a void elf with that racial for that no knockback casts for a devourer lol

[wet crown]

w h y

[wet crown]

WHY

[spring bough]

fun?

[wise sequoia]

The finisher damage from the apex shadow clones are around 70-80% of normal damage.
If you start with around 5ST points you copy only first finisher, 10ST you copy first two, and 14ST you might copy all three.

Since Secret technique is the big finisher, you really want to always copy that one - 5ST is enough if you send first.
But if you are missing flawless form, it does significantly more damage if you can coup AND copy secret technique, which requires 10ST. Copying last evis is kinda nice, but a relatively small difference.

I think the two playstyle will be:

• save everything for the go, then coup and secret technique (this is more burst)
• send coup im between dances to maintain flawless and dance with 5ST (this is more control since no stun gap)

[gusty hedge]

need to finish questline for void elf dh

[spring bough]

ez mode takes less than 30 min

[gusty hedge]

True Outlaw Enjoyer

[spring bough]

leveling a DH too ez with tank que

[wet crown]

based af tbh

[proven field]

Twilight rares are almost a level each too - just fly around for an hour and you’re done

Stay out of group and just air everything / it’s insane exp

Air=aoe

[spring bough]

That with ques 🔥

Get a mount out of twilight too

[mighty berry]

sub vs sin in bgs

whats the play right now for messign around?

[spring bough]

pretty much a level per rare and a level per WQ

[mighty berry]

sub feels really good - am i bad or will i never be able to solo a tank spec or healer spec

[pastel burrow]

In bgs? Just let them go

There's no point in trying to kill god

[mighty berry]

lol, man even in open world between qs

feels like every one runs around in tank spec

just cant seal the deal on them

[livid grove]

Only way I've been able to do it is catching them mid flight with net gun and letting fall damage open for me. In wpvp that is.

[mighty berry]

fuck yeah

why do the work when gravity does it better

[dark kernel]

Interesting take on it. I agree we'll kind of have to see pacing

[molten hedge]

I’ve been boosting my alts on siren isle. Takes about 2 hours 10-80

[dark kernel]

How does this work

[spring bough]

any1 else lagging hella heavy in game?

[molten hedge]

I have 2 accts so i use an 80 and just kill mobs

boosters sell it for like 150-200k

but ive lvled like 8 or 10 alts the last few days

its so easy

[potent pivot]

Gotta go to Zandalar

I think it has everything 1/3/5 target or somethin

[outer sky]

I wish there was some NPC near the training dummies in every city that you could talk to to reset your cooldowns

[dark kernel]

I found the pvp dummy in silvermoon it's just completely away from all the rest

[potent pivot]

ah ok

dragonflight city also has a solo pvp dummy

if u can get there

[sharp sierra]

Yeah I’m surprised this isn’t a feature

[dark kernel]

u have to do the fucking quest chain on beta

[potent pivot]

[dark kernel]

yeah the portal is gone

it's so dumb

[gleaming sentinel]

Are you? They don’t care about us lol

Build your dollhouse like a good boi ok

[stoic spruce]

Yeah it's a commonly requested feature

Even for pvers

[outer sky]

2026 where people sit at home playing a video game where their character just sits at home.

Maybe they'll make it so your character can play wow

Then we can be at home playing a game where we're at home playing wow

[livid cipher]

yeh

u have to use training grounds

only way afaik

or start a key

but that's more impractical

[proven field]

Assa wears 2P?

also Crimson Tempest has like... a 30% success rate

[potent pivot]

Wouldn’t even run it rn tbh

Not until they fix venomous wounds

[spring bough]

Animations on Devourer are too good

[potent pivot]

Ikr

I wish they would update all classes to have sick ones like that

[spring bough]

The void souls look so clean

Almost got my void elf to max to have some fun with annihilator

Eradicate turning Reap into a scythe cleave is so cool to watch

[potent pivot]

Basically all their stuff looks sick af

And has a level of polish I feel like nothing else has

Except maybe dracthyr

Or Evoker w/e

[molten hedge]

Shaman is pretty cool but not on the same level

[spring bough]

i just found out eradicate aoe ability is so OP

if reap is on CD and void ray finishes a channel it clears the cooldown on reap and eradicate is up auto

so i keep putting reap on CD, void ray, then right into eradicate and just eat up all the souls lol

[potent pivot]

MAYBE TellMeWhen?

Idk if anything can do that now

[tidal snow]

oh yep

i wonder now if theres any addon that allows you to manage how the debuffs are displayed

[potent pivot]

Not really atm

[unique bramble]

Is anyone else struggling to do decent dmg on assa in the prepatch?

[glass hazel]

assa just bad

might be better in midnight, i pray for that since i dont wanna play sub

(:

[spring bough]

try some devourer its fun asf lol

[sharp sierra]

I can’t get used to not having anything to press lmao. I’ve been trying out lock for a bit and it’s kinda fun but man getting trained is a different kind of pain I wasn’t ready for lmao

[spring bough]

its funny its like spam 1 button till procs slam procs then spam 1 button LOL

and try to get as many consume souls as possible RIP

[molten hedge]

U just gotta stand there and turret when ur not kiting cds or in danger, fake, line up cc with burst. In melee lobbies, seduce is great for a non casted cc on healer then you can howl and coil dps to cast freely

If you port a warrior don’t immediately peak bc he can’t charge without los

[spring bough]

twilight elites from 70-80 was the easiest thing... did it before i got a dungeon pop LOL

[potent pivot]

[unique bramble]

Hemotoxin is bugged also?? It doesn’t work or apply

[spring bough]

you get like 25k plus xp a rare elite and some of the mobs give 2k or so a pop lol

[potent pivot]

?

[unique bramble]

Doesn’t apply the healing reduc debuff

[potent pivot]

Had it ever had a debuff

[unique bramble]

What do you mean? Its supposed to make shiv give a healing reduc debuff

[molten hedge]

Yeah I’ve never noticed it show that it just did it lol

[potent pivot]

Yes it’s just the shiv debuff

[molten hedge]

🤣

Like not an extra debuff

[unique bramble]

There is no shiv debuff, it only applies the poisons you have equipped

[molten hedge]

Brother

[potent pivot]

I’m almost certain there is

[molten hedge]

There is

[wise sequoia]

Is there a place to read what shiv does in PvP?

No clue what kind of modifiers its got

[molten hedge]

It only does something for assa with hemotoxin pvp talent

Like something useful

[wise sequoia]

What about for sub? With cripple? Slow cast?

[unique bramble]

As I said, it doesn’t work. Go ahead and try it.

[potent pivot]

Are you testing it in pvp

[halcyon timber]

Yes just enhanced slow with crippling / enhanced atrophic / enhanced numbing to 15.6 err 14

[unique bramble]

Yes.

[potent pivot]

Like on a player

[halcyon timber]

Great tool.

[unique bramble]

Jesus Christ, no wonder this shit isn’t getting fixed

[potent pivot]

I’ll check it out later but I’m very skeptical

[wise sequoia]

How much is it enhanced? Does it get buffed further from improved crippling poison? Can I read the effects anywhere?

[potent pivot]

You need to realize how many dumbass things we’ve heard over the years

[molten hedge]

all u needa know is that shit sucks for anything but assa lmaoo

[potent pivot]

Just because someone says something isn’t working doesn’t mean shit

We need context

[halcyon timber]

Shiv iirc is 84% for those 4s. Yes superior mixture buffs normal crippling by 5%. Idrc it affecting shiv. Assassination has stronger non lethal / lethals naturally for their effects.

[potent pivot]

Screenshots, clips, etc

[halcyon timber]

Likely have to run your own verifications per expansion as things change frequently. Always run an audit. Believe nothing.

[potent pivot]

You can’t just say “x isn’t working” and everyone believe it

[molten hedge]

so im pretty sure the debuff it applied last ssn and previously was the nature damage portion of it for 9 secs or whatever

idt it shows a healing reduction debuff

bc i just tested on dummy and in a duel and i didnt see anything

[potent pivot]

Ye

[molten hedge]

And I remember actually looking for that last ssn and didn’t see it

[potent pivot]

Can you check what heals do before/after applying

[molten hedge]

Now that I think about it

I can in a bit I just logged to check that bc I was curious

But it does apply the 84% slow so shiv itself seems to be working fine

[potent pivot]

Ye

[sharp sierra]

youre talking about the prepatch area right?

[spring bough]

Yeah the twilight highlands daily quests and rare elites

[sharp sierra]

damn i wonder if theres any addons to track it

my lock and hunter are the only ones still at 70

[spring bough]

Just go hit the zone up and fly around to every rare that pops and you’ll be dinging levels fast asf

[molten hedge]

70-80 is always rly fast in my experience boosting. It usually takes 15 mins or so for some reason its weird

[spring bough]

I might do a few more alts it was easy

10-70 dungeon ques were avg 3-4 minutes too

[molten hedge]

Yeah on siren isle it’s 1.5-3 mins per level depending on pulls but the upside is you don’t have to wait for dungeon queues

[outer sky]

few too many druids for my liking

[severe helm]

I thought the shiv pvp talent for reduced healing received was a debuff too

Separate from wound poison

[dark kernel]

Rogues are doing BGs because after the armor change their pretty much blacklisted from dungeons

Rogues real dog ass in TBC PvE unfort

Classic wow is ass cancer and vanilla wow is my goat on goat of games

[subtle warren]

its unfortunate that midnight is releasing near tbc

because rogue hate is truly at an all time high

it's the most broken version of any class in any expac imo

it's actually insane they didn't just bump the blind cd 30 sec and make it so you can't step while rooted

would instantly diversify the ladder

[potent pivot]

Not that I remember

[severe helm]

This one

Maybe it was DF

But p sure this was its own debuff

Not wound poison

[dark kernel]

Lmfao TBC rogue is nowhere that good by a long shot

[subtle warren]

lmao how so

its literally the entire ladder

[dark kernel]

It does not even touch mage in TBC, or hunter in mop

Because mage rogue is the ladder

The rogue is the enabler not the damage

That's the whole point

[subtle warren]

like yeah there have been very small periods where 1 class is absolutely stupid like tww hunter for a little

but rogue is busted the whole expac

that doesn't make it any less busted?

rogue healer is way mroe common than mage healer

[dark kernel]

You said it was the most broken of any class in any expansion

[subtle warren]

It is...

[dark kernel]

LMDAO

[subtle warren]

broken doesn't mean does the most damage

[dark kernel]

Im not speaking on this were done I'm not having a conversation today.

[subtle warren]

no class has consistently dominated the ladder the way tbc rogue does

for every single season

happy to be proven wrong

[severe helm]

In tbc???

[stoic spruce]

Rogue in general

[subtle warren]

but I can't remember seeing ladders with basically 1 class on every team

[severe helm]

I mean historically rogue is the most relevant pvp class for sure

But far from the most broken most of the time

[stoic spruce]

I'd argue it's tied with mage

[severe helm]

It's had very few seasons as the star of the show and almost always plays more as a symbiotic spec to the actual op spec in a season

[subtle warren]

Again I don't mean like short term blizz fuckups that create one shots

[severe helm]

Rogue is the best support spec in pvp

[subtle warren]

TBC rogue does it all though

and then you get glaives

[severe helm]

Tbc rogue is strong but DK was more "broken" for some of the seasons

[subtle warren]

true, DK on release was insane

[severe helm]

Rogue has a high skill cap

But bad players still suck on rogue

[subtle warren]

but idk I still think rogue is oppressive in tbc

[severe helm]

I don't consider something broken unless it's op even when piloted by shitters

Oppressive sure

[subtle warren]

its not even that hard to play though...

[severe helm]

Rogue is a high skill cap class

[subtle warren]

I guess yeah frost dk was easier

[severe helm]

Relatively it's by far the hardest

It's up there with only a couple of contendors

Mage prob being the only other imo

[subtle warren]

i bet most people would have way more trouble getting 2.2k on a hunter

than a rogue

in tbc

[severe helm]

A spec being bad is also different

Than it being hard

[spring bough]

Nothing beat vanilla rogue CC setups

[severe helm]

Hard and bad are not the same

[subtle warren]

I mean

the venndiagrams overlap

[severe helm]

When something is bad its bad for all skill levels

When something is hard it can be op in awc and shit at 2200

[subtle warren]

like rogue has high skill cap, but it's also overturned

[severe helm]

They're extremely different definitions

They share similar symptoms

But are far from interchangeable

[subtle warren]

Yeah I'm argueing it's not as hard as people make it out to be

it's just cope because it's super op

[severe helm]

Rogue is hard compared to a lot of other specs

[subtle warren]

Sure the learning curve is higher than frost dk, but once you can use an arena 1/2/3 macro what exactly is rocket science about it?

yeah, but it's also giga powerful compared to other specs

[stoic spruce]

SL outlaw

[subtle warren]

higher skill cap, but other classes literally don't have the ability to be as strong as rogue

[stoic spruce]

Crazy oppressive with infinite CC

[spring bough]

SL maxi lol

It was good ngl

[subtle warren]

Like, if you take class A, give it a bunch more abilities that are super strong - yes it's now "harder" to play, but it's also OP

[stoic spruce]

Kyr/dust was an abomination to a beautiful spec like outlaw

[subtle warren]

and easier to climb ranking on

[stoic spruce]

Rogue just has the toolkit to never be bad even if it does terribad damage

[subtle warren]

agreed

[stoic spruce]

Well

Now it's just sub that has that kind of power lol

Thx Midnight

[subtle warren]

also it's literally only harder for people who are completely inept

[stoic spruce]

Assa/Outlaw are more on par with other classes now

[severe helm]

Again you're trying to appeal via absolutes

[subtle warren]

if you took any TBC arena player who gets 2k on some class, I guarantee you they could login rogue and get 2200

it's just - easier.

I don't consider 1500 people who can't use focus macros in the equation

[severe helm]

Rogue has more dependency on a variety of "good pvp skills" than a lot of other specs

[subtle warren]

im not saying that about modern rogue btw, but tbc rogue for sure

barely man

it's so forgiving because of the toolkit

[severe helm]

I think you're considering it faced against other weaker specs

It's strong not easy

Again there's a difference haha

Tbc isn't very balanced

[subtle warren]

I mean yes there's a difference, but I think you're way overstating how "hard" it is

[severe helm]

I'm not stating how hard it is

I'm stating how much hardER it is than other specs

[subtle warren]

I'm argueing the amount hardER it is, is small relative to how much strongER it is

a "little" more effort, for a "lot" more potential

[severe helm]

I think of difficulty as how much skill is required to perform within some distance from the top players of a spec

For rogue that is a lot of skill cuz the class has a very high skill cap

[subtle warren]

but glad rankings don't go by spec

or whatever rankings

[severe helm]

Oh sure if you argument is how hard it is to get glad on a spec that's different

[sharp sierra]

Okay so is beta stats not like the final stat distribution

[severe helm]

That's a function of how op a spec is for how much skill it requires

Dk is insanely high there obv

Low effort high reward

[subtle warren]

Okay so let's use an extreme. Let's say there's a class where EVERYONE who plays it can get glad (because its powerful) but it's so complex that certain people are leaps and bounds above the rest of the glads aka NEVER lose a game. So we're talking super high skill cap.

[severe helm]

That's very tuning dependent obv

[subtle warren]

Would you consider that class hard?

[severe helm]

But I don't think a classes relative difficulty is subject to tuning

[subtle warren]

or would you say that class is easy

[severe helm]

That's a hard spec

If skill cap is high and performing near your specs max capacity requires a lot of skill then it's a hard spec

Regardless of under tuned or overtuned

[subtle warren]

I think we're just using the word differently

[severe helm]

Yeah I think your wording is dangerous

Cuz it misconstrues powerlevel with skill requirements

[subtle warren]

I think your wording is gate keepy

[severe helm]

Haha that's a personal problem

[subtle warren]

because it exaggerates how much effort is required to play an op class

[gilded gulch]

skill floor and skill ceiling

[sharp sierra]

Playing soldier vs genji

[severe helm]

No it just specifies the difference

Which is important

You're trying to undermine the specs complexity using its power level

Which is dishonest

[gilded gulch]

Most melee are low skill floor

outside of maybe enh

[subtle warren]

I mean it's just true of anything in life. If you join a car racing league, and you're given a much faster higher specced car - sure it's harder to drive? But it's still "easier" to win a championship with.

[severe helm]

Go ahead and try to drive an f1

And not die first corner

You proved my point

[subtle warren]

I have on a 50k simulator

it was VERY HARD

[severe helm]

But it's the fastest car bro

It's easier

[subtle warren]

but I could beat a bunch of people in hondas around a track

No... I made it around the track

[severe helm]

You're speaking anecdotally

[subtle warren]

and after a few hours I was doing laps without crashing - although very slowly

no

dude

[severe helm]

Most people couldn't even press the brakes hard enough

In an f1 car

[subtle warren]

that stat is fake btw

[severe helm]

It's not

[subtle warren]

the 86kg of pressure or whatever

[severe helm]

Not to mention so many other things people don't know about on that car

[subtle warren]

yeah, it's something like max force applied at the bottom out of the brake or something. not output required every time you push the pedal down

[severe helm]

Most people would be fastest around a track in a Honda fit cuz they'd actually make it around haha

[subtle warren]

But still

Okay

[severe helm]

It just proves my point though

[subtle warren]

noo it proves my point 😂

Because playing rogue in tbc is NOWHERE near the difference between an f1 car and a honda

but the power level is WAY higher than some of the other classes

it's sooooooo cope to pretend playing tbc rogue is big brain

[severe helm]

Yeah it's hard to quantify the explicit difference

[subtle warren]

it's just simply OP

[severe helm]

But the concept is still consistent

And it's much more clear to recognize the difference between season by season tuning of power level and actual complexity of a spec

[outer sky]

in 2019 I was my state's 2nd place long range precision rifle shooting champion. If you gave a total amateur the rifle I built to compete with, their score would hardly increase at all. The tools don't mean shit to someone who doesn't know how to use them. Hell I probably could have been shooting a factory Bergara B14 and still placed in the top 5

[subtle warren]

I'll make it easy
spec complexity - other classes 5/10 : rogue 7/10
power - other classes 5/10 : rogue 9/10

[severe helm]

So rogue is a harder spec

That's what I've been saying haha

[gilded gulch]

Tbh that only applies to sub and outlaw in some seasons.

Assa very often is....

[subtle warren]

yes but we aren't talking total amatures

[gilded gulch]

hold w

[subtle warren]

in @outer sky 's example, we'd be talking all people who are experienced (which is what im talking about with arena)

so having the better rifle would matter by a lot

Just like - i dont care about 1500 players

I'm talking everyone above 2k, could play a rogue

[severe helm]

But yeah I agree rogue is strong in tbc but in terms of broken I'd put dk at 5/10 complexity and 11/10 power level

[gilded gulch]

Mage is the peak example of a class that takes someone half decent to play well.

[severe helm]

THATS broke.

[subtle warren]

yeah wotlk DK is stupid

absolutely

[outer sky]

when I say total amateur I mean by competitive stanards. I don't mean noobies who cant shoot

[gilded gulch]

Isn't wotlk dk the strongest a class has ever been.

[severe helm]

Some people over 2k(dk players) would t even get 2k on rogue

[gilded gulch]

Ever

[subtle warren]

but for the health of a the game I think a rogue detune would've helped tbc a lot

[severe helm]

Ret in dragonflight s2

Prob as strong

If not stronger

[gilded gulch]

wasnt that df s1

or mid s1

[severe helm]

Oh sure

Whichever

The retpocalypse

Killed the whole season

[gilded gulch]

I knew a guy once who got 2.7 on dh not realizing you could imprison players.

"oh this works on non npcs"

[subtle warren]

I didn't go through every class every expac I was being just a bit hyperbolic

but tbc rogue is WAY up there

in terms of just oppresive power

It's just relevant right now

and the whole reason I mentioned it was because I don't want the hate to translate to us haha

[outer sky]

whats the argument here exactly

[gilded gulch]

Yeah rogue skill floor is typically just a bit higher than most melee

If it's not assa

[subtle warren]

I was just saying that TBC rogue is super OP

[sharp sierra]

me whos never broken past 2100 reading this

[subtle warren]

and I didnt want people to feel the rogue hate

and then have them be sensitive toward rogue power on midnight

I'm mostly kidding

[gilded gulch]

yeah but most classic andys

[subtle warren]

but also not completely

[gilded gulch]

are convinced retail is bad

anyway

[subtle warren]

ya idk I wish blizz found a way to convince them it's not

I was a classic andy for so long, legit refused to play retail until last week

and it's actually really good

[outer sky]

you mean 2 for 1 plushies for your in game house at only $5 USD doesnt convince them?

[gilded gulch]

i mean i still respect the ogs who found shit out way before there was a gorillion resources for it

[subtle warren]

I tried telling my whole classic pvp community and they're like lol shut up

[gilded gulch]

The people who actually had to learn all the things that are considered "Common" now

[severe helm]

Are they doing tbc again?

I'm confused

[subtle warren]

some are doing tbc, some stayed era

I host my own private WSG server too, people play on that

wargames

[hybrid sapphire]

idc how classic works. they just play the same xpac forever?

when does stuff chnage

[severe helm]

Some stat classic

Some progress

[subtle warren]

ya it's kind of fried

[severe helm]

I think they're on cata rn?

[subtle warren]

nope TBC + mop

[severe helm]

It's like super fast seasons

[subtle warren]

• hardcore

[severe helm]

Essentially

[subtle warren]

• remix

• era

lmao

blizz with 8 dead endgames

[outer sky]

A lot of them say "retail is bad" but the actual psychology behind it isn't that they think its bad its just that they haven't been happy since they were kids when vanilla, TBC, and Wrath were all current content. Playing those versions of the game brings them back to the only time in their lives that they weren't miserable so they will never let it go no matter how good retail is. Because that's not even the point

[molten hedge]

I started in late DF and have no clue ab any of that

Winner

[severe helm]

Ah they're mop now?

[sharp sierra]

mechagnomes should be horde change my mind

[severe helm]

That's right

[subtle warren]

You're 10000% correct it's a psychological thing, but I think a lot of them also think the gameplay is bad

[severe helm]

My friends were like "ppv is gonna pop off!!!"

[hybrid sapphire]

🚨opinion alert🚨 i think those ppl are kinda hardstuck in nostalgia

[severe helm]

Then it didn't

I think it's fine

[subtle warren]

I remember a few times I logged in and felt like there really was a little too much bloat?

[gilded gulch]

Yk its weird to me considering

[subtle warren]

Now it feels really good

[severe helm]

Wow stopped progressing objectively in like cata maybe

[gilded gulch]

there are alot of other retro game communities that don't get into a difficulty circlejerk.

[severe helm]

Everythjng else is different but not necessarily better

[gilded gulch]

with their modern iterations

[severe helm]

So it makes sense to redo them

Free content

Modern wow sucks in a lot of ways

It's not objectively better than classic

Classic is better in many ways

[sharp sierra]

Frostbolt x1000

Hard mechanic: Having to move left every 20 minutes

[subtle warren]

The community in classic is really good

I'll say

[gilded gulch]

If you want an rpg game sure but like

Imo there is way too much "go go go" even in classic.

[subtle warren]

there's just SO much interaction with the world and other people. The guild drama, fighting over resources, blackrock mountain, tidal charm, parsing etc etc etc

You can understand why people enjoy it

[severe helm]

But that's not the point of the game

[outer sky]

Like a friend of mine was streaming TBC for me and there was this rogue in his dungeon group that kept shitting on retail, meanwhile his damage breakdown was 50% auto attacks and 23% sinister strike. Bro is literally pressing 1 button to do 73% of his damage and the entire time he's sitting there thinking "oh yeah man, this is IT. This is the real game!" with a completely straight face. Like it almost doesn't even seem real. I can't believe that there's people like that who are just in the world right now. Like, they're REAL people. I'm still in disbelief honestly

[severe helm]

It has more slow linear gear progression

[gilded gulch]

I'll never get back the nostalgia of being an idiot and asking an actual question in /1

[severe helm]

And more open world moments

[gilded gulch]

because there aren't a million resources answering it already

[severe helm]

Where you can be powerful just off your gear even if you suck mechanically

People like that

They aren't wrong for liking that

[subtle warren]

I think TBC is crazy. level 60 is the only one I can see having longevity because it's just a totally different dynamic than the rest of wow

[sharp sierra]

i know lmao, i just prefer adhd moments compared to walking simulator

i did that as a child i dont need to do it anymore

more power to those whos enjoy it

[severe helm]

It's a different game for different players

[gilded gulch]

I mean its probably a similar reason people liked remix

[subtle warren]

Yeah, vanilla wow is honestly more of a social hangout than anything

[gilded gulch]

being overpowered just off gear

[outer sky]

I think they need to be studied ngl. I'd be surprised if the vast majority of those people didn't have some kind of diagnosable psychological illness

[subtle warren]

ya it 100% doesn't make sense to me. But tbh they probably think I'm weird for hosting a wsg server and spamming games, or you're weird for playing thousands of arenas

[gilded gulch]

It's also more social in how not everyone in your raid actually needs to be good.

to finish the content

[severe helm]

Id study osrs players first

[subtle warren]

I agree tho I truly couldn't imagine

[gilded gulch]

you can bring your kind of ahem irl friend who is a bit

slow on intake

etc

[subtle warren]

doing what these people do

[severe helm]

No offense to the osrs people in here

[subtle warren]

bro OSRS players as adults are INSANEEEEEE

[severe helm]

Hahahaha

[subtle warren]

you could NOT pay me

[severe helm]

There's so many of them too

They're all around us

[subtle warren]

to come home from work and work 😂

[gilded gulch]

I haven't seen anyone who plays OSRS as a non sidetab

[severe helm]

LOL @spring bough

Called out

[sharp sierra]

woah woah we cant leave out the eso fans

[spring bough]

🤦‍♂️

[sharp sierra]

i LOVE voice acting

[gilded gulch]

I've seen people have OSRS pulled up on a second monitor

while doing something else

[sharp sierra]

i wish wow did this like ESO

[gilded gulch]

but if it's your main focus

[spring bough]

I’m gonna play Devourer now fuck

[outer sky]

I just keep going back to that rogue in my friends dungeon group pressing 1 button the whole dungeon and he ACTUALLY thinks thats the superior version of the game. Like it sounds like a joke. He's obviously delusional but to such an extent I don't even know if treatment would be effective.

Like i may walk past someone like that

[severe helm]

That's less insane than playing it on your main monitor

[outer sky]

theyre real people

you can see them

[gilded gulch]

I had a guy in mop classic say retail andy for doing a mass dungeon pull

[outer sky]

i mean lets be real they dont go outside

[gilded gulch]

I mean that shit existed in mop already

[outer sky]

but still

[gilded gulch]

😂

when it was current

[outer sky]

they consume oxygen

[gilded gulch]

Pretty sure wotlk really started mass dungeon pulls

then it briefly stopped in cata launch because most of the dungeons sent you to poundtown until forums cried

[spring bough]

Didn’t DK have the AoE grip back then

[outer sky]

Blood still does

gorefiends grasp

[gilded gulch]

you didnt even need it but yeah

i dont think gorefiend existed in wotlk

[subtle warren]

I thought that was mop

the mass grip into druid mushroom rbg tech

or something stupid AF like that

[gilded gulch]

wotlk introduced aoe snap threat

iirc

Me when i queue my daily heroic and its occulus

[potent pivot]

Jesus

300 messages in the last 45min

[potent pivot]

What’s wrong with that?

[gilded gulch]

I mean thats the only way to play it

[potent pivot]

Wait what

Holy capony

[gilded gulch]

The convo was who tf plays OSRS as their one and only screen.

full focus

[potent pivot]

Every osrs player

It depends what you’re doing in the game

[spring bough]

Never even heard of osrs

[potent pivot]

You can afk skills but pvm very much needs full focus

[sharp sierra]

its like club penguin but with retro graphics

[gilded gulch]

Well yeah but you spend so long leveling skills.

[outer sky]

Lol Club Penguin

[sharp sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/club-penguin-meme-dancing-penguin-penguin-twerk-club-penguin-club-penguin-emoji-gif-27435329

[outer sky]

I played that game as a kid

[sharp sierra]

i was fire at their card game

[potent pivot]

It depends. Some people get the bare minimum skill levels and just train max combats for pvm

[outer sky]

Dont call me out like that

[potent pivot]

I won’t allow osrs slander in this channel sir

[spring bough]

Oh it’s RuneScape

[outer sky]

Old School

[spring bough]

Yeah special type of people playing that still lmao

Graphics were so ass lmao

[potent pivot]

Only one of the last successful MMOs

[sharp sierra]

ESO>

[sharp sierra]

WOAH WOAH dont forget everquest

[spring bough]

[sharp sierra]

im joking i played everquest for like 1 month

[potent pivot]

It still does numbers and is growing

Weekly updates

Devs that care

[sharp sierra]

point and click

[gilded gulch]

I forgot people did pvm besides to farm gear for wildy pvp

[sharp sierra]

its basically classic frost bolt

[gilded gulch]

[sharp sierra]

[gilded gulch]

The best part about being a kid and stealing someone's gear when you owned them.

[spring bough]

Sounds ez

[potent pivot]

Not that simple

It’s pretty obvious you guys have never seen end game and pvm of the game

The homie @toxic surge can elaborate

He’s basically fully converted from wow to osrs and been kinda killin it

@spring bough ?

https://tenor.com/view/josie-josie-martinez-jo-martin-sheep-sheep-xing-gif-9793182163226288557

[sharp sierra]

i know lmao i make fun of my friends that play it lol its just not my type of game

i like eso and fo76 so i cant say much haha

[sharp sierra]

fresh 70 lock, just go the new place and farm mobs?

[spring bough]

The rare elites and the WQs

[sharp sierra]

pvp mode on or save my sanity haha

[spring bough]

War mode off lol

[strange trellis]

Funny enough if theres truth to this then OSRS might actually be #3 or #2 in terms of players in the MMORPG genre... so... still massively popular lol

[potent pivot]

i think it surpassed ffxiv

or at least is very competitive with it numbers wise now

[strange trellis]

Very plausible especially since FFXIV's numbers dropped dramatically with their expansion

[potent pivot]

yer

ff14 gets 20k daily peak on steam

so likely 100-200k off steam

[strange trellis]

I think most of their players use the native launcher

especially anyone who mods, theres a special launcher they use

[potent pivot]

osrs can average 150-220k online at once lately

[strange trellis]

Runescape has always been extremely popular and with most of the competition gone these days it made it a lot easier to claim a spot in the top 3

[outer sky]

One thing ive noticed is the OSRS community is generally way more optimistic than the WoW community

For whatever reason

[potent pivot]

the devs that care part i said earlier

[outer sky]

Jagex def seems to care way more than blizzard

[potent pivot]

i've never been able to think of a single gaming company that interacts with and cares more about player opinions than jagex

[outer sky]

Yeah the voting booth for changes is so good

And needing a super majority to pass not just a simple majoirty

[potent pivot]

they're putting in an entire player made island soon

[outer sky]

So any change has to be wildly popular

[potent pivot]

that we voted on in a competition

tons of ppl came up with new island ideas/content for the island

hang on

[subtle warren]

ya

we need voting for wow

pvp at least

would be gas

[outer sky]

In osrs for a change to go through it needs like 70% support

[potent pivot]

a player made all of this and edited a video of it

hmm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmMzm52_2VQ

shit is wild

[outer sky]

Yeah for real

Blizzard would NEVER lol

[potent pivot]

the winner also got like 1yr sub free and some other stuff

[outer sky]

So there will be like a bunch of new quests and shit?

If so thatll be kind nice because they wont be pre solved like all the current quests

Though im sure it wont take long

[potent pivot]

i think its just 1 quest, 1 new boss, and a couple new methods for existing skills

with the island specifically

there's way more coming this year tho

new hardest quest in the game, at least 2 new bosses, a 4th raid, so on and so on

[outer sky]

I wish they'd let me copy my RS3 character over to OSRS

[potent pivot]

you can catch up to where your rs3 guy was in like a week or two max prob

[outer sky]

My RS3 guy was combat level like 94 or 97

[potent pivot]

yea thats nothin

when it comes to training shit u can just afk it while playing wow

[outer sky]

My OSRS toon is like combat level 45 or something

[potent pivot]

combat levels are sorta w/e

the only active thing that takes a fair amount of time to do is all the quests

[outer sky]

Shits just easier with a higher combat level

You can kill more stuff

More easily

[potent pivot]

its just unnecessary

[outer sky]

I wanna pvp in wildy though

[potent pivot]

that takes a lot of time to get to

[outer sky]

Yeah ik

[potent pivot]

especially if you're going to try and do a max combat acc

[outer sky]

I dont see any reason not to max combat

[potent pivot]

you gotta make a lot of gold to level certain stuff, do a bunch of quests, afk for a month or more

game is much better progressed doing the quests

[outer sky]

Yeah I only have a few million gold

[potent pivot]

then pvm'ing for money

just as an example, 99 range is like 50m, magic 40m, prayer like 50m

[outer sky]

Yeah for the arrows and runes n shit

And unlike I wow I cant make gold boosting people

Yo I wonder

If I could trade wow gold for osrs gold

Cuz making wow gold is a joke

[potent pivot]

you'd have to rwt in both games

[outer sky]

I mean is that doable

Actually what i really need to do is find a way to monetize that party hat I have on rs3

But I also dont want to sell it ive had it FOREVER

[toxic surge]

Sorry for linking this but idk whats a better way to differentiate between the hardest content in wow and osrs, alot of things in osrs can get harder than pushing world first m+ keys i used to make fun of osrs for being too easy until i experienced part of osrs endgame content

Gets pretty hard

[sharp sierra]

im not a pve andy

https://tenor.com/view/what-is-the-next-step-for-the-operation-whats-the-next-step-of-the-operation-what-is-the-next-step-of-the-operation-alien-locked-in-locked-in-gif-4864442438093827223

[toxic surge]

Skill ceiling in osrs is basically infinite when wow has somewhat of a limit, you do ur rotation perfectly and you deal with the bosses/player

It applies to pvp aswell

Your playing 2v2 you can get into like 2v5 but you’ll die over 100 times to get it done once except wow has cooldowns so u wont be able to kill highly skilled 5 players

[sharp sierra]

Bonds

[toxic surge]

No matter how hard you go in wow it wont come close to some of the osrs challenges

[sharp sierra]

Yeah youre fighting controls from an atari

i bet its hard

[toxic surge]

Some notable ones only 1 person in the world has ever completed them so far

Idk whats atari

Wow is similar to osrs

You just use ur mouse instead of ur keyboard

Besides pvp is way easier than world first keys/raids in wow btw

Just fyi

[sharp sierra]

subjective

[toxic surge]

Not really because i assume you never pushed for winning AWC/being the first name on arena leaderboards

So that’s understandable

[sharp sierra]

👍

[outer sky]

Well, part of what's "hard" about doing anything thats "world first" is not just the content but doing that content before anyone else does.

A couple of years ago I joined this competition at a restaurant where me and these 2 other guys were competing to finish 96oz of prime rib steak. And I remember thinking "I know i can finish this steak. Thats no big deal. But can I do it before either of those other guys do??"

I lost btw

Guy who won finished 2 and a half minutes before me

So close

[sharp sierra]

I think osrs is cool, I just will never like it since its not something i enjouy its extemely boring to me. I think comparing the two like they are similar at all is stupid because they are completely different games

You cannot compare the two in hardly anyways thats just a dumb argument to begin with

[toxic surge]

M+ works differently than doing it before other people

They are rly hard to complete

Thats why u end up doing them first

First month of the season doesnt count ofcourse

[outer sky]

The definition of "world first" means you're the first in the world to do it

If someone else does it

[toxic surge]

Thats where doing it first doesnt matter

[outer sky]

You cant get world first

By definition

[toxic surge]

World first/rank 1 keys

Same shit anyway

It’s understandable to think the game is dumb because thats what i thought aswell

Looks super easy until u experience it tho

[outer sky]

Gotta get that fast clicking

[toxic surge]

The boring part is real, its hard to enjoy osrs without pushing urself into completing alot of things to get to mid/endgame content of osrs

Comparing difficulty idk like i could be way too good with my keyboard and average on my mouse

Its hard to compare thats for sure

[potent pivot]

wut

[severe helm]

maybe keys are just easy

[toxic surge]

Im about to block ur ass

Wemo

[severe helm]

pve only ever gets so hard and often times a lot of "hard" pve games resort to being more punishing instead of actually more mechanically difficult

namean though

[toxic surge]

Ur highest key is +15 explain that

[severe helm]

it is not lol

Ive only ever pushed one season though

I dont have the time to compete in m+

its too time intensive for how I play games

[toxic surge]

U realize that r1 keys and 1 key level below is night and day difference in difficulty

Especially that we ran them no voice full melee comp

[severe helm]

r1 keys are 1 key level below themselves only a month earlier

so

but anyway thats not my point

[toxic surge]

Yea i wont bother having a conversation with moot 2.0

[outer sky]

Why are you so salty

[severe helm]

he loses arguments to me a lot so he doesnt like it

[toxic surge]

Mewo perma trolls

Never serious about anything

[severe helm]

but yeah I mean whats like the hardest pve game? speedrunning is probably the hardest "version" of pve there is I would figure

like frame perfect inputs for an hour+ depending on the game

m+ cant really compare to that

[potent pivot]

there is a lot of history there from the pve channels

[severe helm]

I mean its a bit apples to oranges but still

[potent pivot]

[severe helm]

ive never seen zeross in this channel

ngl

[potent pivot]

i pinged him when they were bashing osrs earlier

[severe helm]

hahahaha

walked right into it

[potent pivot]

idk a lot of ppl are just kinda clueless about other games

[severe helm]

very true

my experience in osrs from what ive watched my friends play is just a lot of slurs in chat

[potent pivot]

_>

maybe way back in the day idk

[severe helm]

their city chat makes trade chat seem tame

nah its recent

[outer sky]

I credit runescape with giving me my faster than average typing speed

[severe helm]

lot of israel stuff

I wont go further

[sharp sierra]

Mine was watching them “switch gear” being like a crazy thing that made me laugh

[potent pivot]

i bet you couldn't do a 8 way switch in 1 game tick either

[sharp sierra]

Thanks now this channel has to pay taxes

[sharp sierra]

I play ow, the superior brain game

[severe helm]

LOL

bro dont self report like that

[gilded gulch]

I mean osrs and classic both have their share of uncs who are still on nostalgia trips.

[severe helm]

osrs is played both by casuals and sweats

[gilded gulch]

^

[severe helm]

but so is classic

[sharp sierra]

This GM2 rank didn’t hit itself

[outer sky]

FPS games give me extreme migraine headaches

I cant play them for very long

[severe helm]

I dont know enough about osrs though Ive just watched some of the clips zeross sent about the hard fights

[gilded gulch]

I'm just saying alot of those people who actually played it when it was current and never let go, have some takes.

[severe helm]

and it might feel hard but from a 3rd person perspective it doesnt look like it

[sharp sierra]

I’ve been playing competitive fps since MW2 game battle days

[potent pivot]

watching and doing are insanely different in osrs ye

[severe helm]

it seems more like the challenge of the game is dealing with how shit the UI is

[sharp sierra]

Nothing scratches the ow itch

[severe helm]

but I guess thast just how its designed

[gilded gulch]

It's like when you visit family for the holidays and you got that one uncle

Who likes saying the hard r

[outer sky]

I couldn't even play Halo on console as a kid. It made me physically sick

[sharp sierra]

Damn

No Tarkov?!?

And you’re a gun nut?!?

I gotta put you on

[gilded gulch]

Personally idk back when classic was a thing i thought it was easy compared to korean mmos.

[outer sky]

Im not a "gun nut" anymore than someone who owns a liquor store is an alcoholic

[severe helm]

I mean classic is easy

[sharp sierra]

Lmaooo

[severe helm]

it was never meant to be hard

it was meant to be fun

[gilded gulch]

I used to play mmos where you'd lose xp for dying.

[severe helm]

thats just punishing

[gilded gulch]

and levels took like 10 hours of nonstop grinding

🤣

[sharp sierra]

I love Korean mmo slop

Except Tera, pedo ass game glad it died

And bdo

Fuck that p2w game

[gilded gulch]

every korean mmo is p2w

fym

[severe helm]

theres quite a blend of punishing and difficult that combine into how "hard" a game is

[sharp sierra]

Or dies 3 months later

“Wow killers”

[severe helm]

like hardcore classic doesnt make any part of the game technically harder

but if you die its over so its just way way more punishing

[sharp sierra]

I’m happy ESO stuck to being casual and didn’t try to compete.

[outer sky]

Think a lot of people mistake "tedious" for "hard"