i was running what I posted
#pvp
outer sky
potent pivot
this one?
potent pivot
you could drop subt/soothing for tea/forced
just to see how that feels
with cheap not being spammable i feel like you either run double vanish or no subt
outer sky
I'll give it a shot. The only thing is, I really liked that 1 point in subterfuge because getting a cheap shot off a meld without it is kinda aids
outer sky
well garrote silence is still a thing
potent pivot
true
outer sky
@potent pivot the problem with testing right now it seems is that theres just no build that does any damage.
so its like almost a useless experiment
forced induction made my envenoms hit harder but they still didnt hit hard enough to be scary
potent pivot
so its like almost a useless experiment
yup
we did say that earlier :d
only real reason to test anything atm is just to see how the design feels
trying to TC builds and stuff just ain't worth the effort currently
potent pivot
they want to put more emphasis on pooling energy
because in any cleave/AoE situations, assa has just been flooded with infinite energy for quite a while now
when your main resource isn't a limiting factor, you don't have to properly plan
now you're going to have to actually hold globals if you want to get ready to line up cc and burst a kill i think
like the olden days
outer sky
seems like a dated design. I dont think other specs have to deal with that
Also it doesnt feel like we got "pruned" very much
its legit just tempest gone
potent pivot
seems like a dated design. I dont think other specs have to deal with that
some do
and most want to
having a resource is pointless if you don't have to manage it
may as well just get rid of all resource limitations and let everyone spam every global cooldown at that point
survival players rn are not happy with the midnight design of their spec because they're still spamming kill command every other global for tip of the spear/strike as one, which makes them oversaturated with focus
making having a focus bar meaningless
energy classes just aren't like rage/mana classes
outer sky
I dont mind being energy starved on 1 target but if I maintain full bleeds and poisons on 2+ i shouldnt have to think too much about energy
static holly
We gain too little energy back. 4 is too low. The class feels unfinished or not finalized
Does the imp garrote make it worth to use vanish in-between?
potent pivot
@outer sky @static holly i think you guys are just too used to how energy has been for the past couple expansions
it being slower isn't a bad thing
historically assa has never been a spec that you sit spamming GCDs on
until recent expacs
slower energy just means now you have to actually think before you press
stoic spruce
Rogue in general tbh all got faster
potent pivot
its a good thing, if you're good, imo
potent pivot
Rogue in general tbh all got faster
ye
i don't think any rogue spec should be spamming globals unless they're in the CDs
ADR, Dance/Symbols, Deathmark, etc
it should straight up be a strategic misplay for you to do so imo
stoic spruce
Facts
stoic spruce
Been waiting a while for energy management to make a comeback
outer sky
We're even harder countered by these trivial bleed cleanses
Evoker pressing caut feels TERRIBLE right now on beta
Like 10000x worse than on retail
And thats every evoker spec, every dwarf and dark iron dwarf, every survival hunter
potent pivot
ye idk i think blizzard is just fucking out of touch on that
i think they want these counters to exist
but the way they exist atm makes you feel miserable to play the game idk
static holly
The changes are too much build around PvE, that's the problem
I will hop into beta and will try n error too
Are there no vendors to buy gear anywhere? I don't see them in the old capital cities
outer sky
Are there no vendors to buy gear anywhere? I don't see them in the old capital c...
Theyre in orgrimmar and stormwind
static holly
Hmm.. thought so and read this too
I don't have them... Strange. I will create a new char
DMG meters at least work
potent pivot
The changes are too much build around PvE, that's the problem
wdym
static holly
wdym
Well, they only focused on simplifying PvE, since that appeals to the large, broad, and money-making mass of players. They didn't consider the potential impact of many of these changes on PvP.
exotic dove
I don't like the new crimson tempest on beta
Sub seems fun but I only had like one game as sub
and yeah as mentioned before its op
grave basin
Testing is just hogwash rn with no proper tuning AND some people being fully decked with crafting gear
Like 13ilvls difference which is huge
Can also craft weapons/jewellery with "proper" secondaries
static holly
Hmm ... For me rupture and garrote,.besides splatter, do the most significant dmg
10k ticks but I have no gear and on a dummy. Hard to say...
May go with 3 poisons and use numb/atrophic
grave basin
Idk i feel like this beta really rubbed me the wrong way
First it was the trinket bug
Then now the crafting bug
DF beta testing was so much better
I cba to even log on beta
4 weeks now of no tuning doesnt help either
static holly
@grave basin Understandable. And I don't expect any changes before pre-patch but also no further adjustments after the patch.
It doesn't look like that
grave basin
The gap between the S tier like uh Dk, havoc and arcane compared to the dogshit tier like ww/outlaw/enhance is too massive
Like if you log on to play beta as enhance rn and press queue youre just gonna waste time fighting nothing but uh dks and sps all day everyday
Theres nothing to test
And no, hitting dummies isnt testing
static holly
True. DK will probably easily self heal himself 🤣
Let's hope the best. Maybe they prepare a nice patch before launch and will fix a few things last minute
dark kernel
The gap between the S tier like uh Dk, havoc and arcane compared to the dogshit ...
What rogue spec is even possibly good in midnight
Please don't say it's assas because I am rerolling this time of that's the case.
grave basin
Sub
dark kernel
Respectable I can hang
grave basin
Definately not outlaw lol
dark kernel
So disappointing. I literally just started doing beta stuff and I saw that we got preparation back and I was like well that's a lot of up time on some abilities
grave basin
Supa played it a while back you can check the vod on his youtube
Hes no outlaw main but ig its better than no content
dark kernel
I'm straight up not sitting and playing a D tier spec next xpac
grave basin
So disappointing. I literally just started doing beta stuff and I saw that we go...
Alot of it just comes down to tuning and there has been minimal for pvp
dark kernel
Alot of it just comes down to tuning and there has been minimal for pvp
Yeah it'll probably change a lot during the first few weeks.
I know some people who text some developers
But there are definitely reasons why Marksman and unholy DK have been left in their current states
static holly
All valid, on paper 
dark kernel
Can you ask them to make outlaw great again
Next time I see smex I will let him know
He's nice enough that if I don't be a dick about it he may give an answer
grave basin
Smex has zero say probably
Even if he wants to nerf overtuned specs
I mean he plays enhance and look at the kit its going into midnight with
One of the last melees to not have ms besides ret but ret keeps like 90% of its buttons
fathom crag
Sub
sub terrible as well
does no damage
and dance duration is so short
prob stun bot for a mage or w/e
grave basin
and dance duration is so short
it has a 20 second cd though iirc
grave basin
does no damage
sub does no damage or self healing is out of control
warrior 2nd wind, dk self healing and sub rogue itself has crazy self healing rn
i mean look at this shit, i time stamped it
heals back from 2% to 60% through full stack wound i mean wtf lol
static holly
Feral too
Does soothing darkness heal you even if stealth breaks?
Might be a definitive way to use it and "stack" heals via snd, vial and soothing darkness
Yeah nvm works
But a crappy way to heal up
grave basin
self healing is just out of control esp for warrior/dh/dk
legit can duel a warrior for like 5mins just opening and restealthing and he never dies
static holly
Did you maybe test deadly poison instead of wound? Idk but if it doesn't do much we could pass on it and go more into bleed / nature dmg
potent pivot
and dance duration is so short
Weren’t you saying earlier on that it felt like dance uptime was great?
fathom crag
they changed it
potent pivot
Ye i thought that was post changes
gleaming sentinel
This weird bug when you vanish the moment you get cc’d and not getting subterfuge is real annoying
worthy lark
any info on conquest at prepatch? is it getting converted into gold or will be stiil be able to buy conquest gear?
dark moon
I don't think we've received any gold conversions for some expansions now
Unless I'm very badly mistaken
potent pivot
i'm pretty sure it still gets converted into gold
dark kernel
It does 100%
But that's probably not going to happen yet? I don't think it's with the end of season patch but a few weeks later
Since technically ranked q will still be active
potent pivot
i want to say its the reset the expansion goes live, or maybe the week prior to that
true warren
where can i post a shuffle game for review?
potent pivot
can just post it here, if someone has time they may take a look
true warren
ok nice
Sub Rogue. Between 2,2 and 2,3k MMV. Got absolutely stomped this game playing 0:6
static holly
https://www.youtube.com/live/bcvkJbv1CXU?si=0VIDNFy_6NQHDQDu&t=8839
Like how he tracks his DR via macros I assume. Good old fashion way with the timers (newer video)
static holly
Idk, remix isn't my taste 
potent pivot
Everyone’s been telling me nice wow players just carry you through the raids for free, was I lied to?
gleaming sentinel
needing 770s for remix
(start your own raid)
grave basin
Everyone’s been telling me nice wow players just carry you through the raids for...
they definately carry im just ragebaiting
potent pivot
spring bough
Everyone’s been telling me nice wow players just carry you through the raids for...
There’s a ton of carry group Az just picking the one in a million group that does that lol
jolly sierra
they wanna a carry
dark kernel
ok nice
Sub Rogue. Between 2,2 and 2,3k MMV. Got absolutely stomped this game p...
I can tell you right now you ran disarm twice into Unholy DK and I didn't see you use it, nor did you need Disarm and Tricks of the Trade would have been fantastic there.
dark kernel
ok nice
Sub Rogue. Between 2,2 and 2,3k MMV. Got absolutely stomped this game p...
(These are the DK/Sub games and vs. Splay you guys have like no chance, this is comp diff)
Game 3: You possibly miss window on Spriest dying around 6:50 minute, you commit to the lock while SP is standing next to him at 50% where DK hits him. You and DK are honestly split a lot this round.
Game 4: Rewatch your opener, you run to kick a lasso from stealth, you could have triple stun on opened they were so clumped. You guys honestly just get a really bad opener and the Splay runs you over with pure pressure.
(These are Destro/Sub - this is your best chance of winning)
Game 5: Honestly, you had some really good damage here and decisions. Your team needed to get some CC on the Rsham to clutch this match. The SP played correctly in MCing you over and over while the DK just ran down your Destro.
Game 6: You swapped around a lot here. Honestly feels like your damage and Lock just never really aligned to land the kills. You got more freedom here, but you're kind of just trying to hit anything. This is rough though because Voidweaver is adding a lot of pressure and once again the DK just mowed through the lock after cooldowns.
My tl;dr for you: You AT BEST should have gone 2/6 here with 2 wins with the destro. Destro should be going 6-0 here as he is playing very very crispy, but you got a not fantastic Sub game and just sometimes it happens.
Also you gotta chill some on Shadowstep. You're using 3 steps way often in the opener with sprint still going and triggering all your charges instantly even with the double step.
true warren
(These are the DK/Sub games and vs. Splay you guys have like no chance, this is ...
hey thanks for taking the time to review it. this really helps! i rewatched it after i read your review and yeah, it's crazy how i waste the step charges. never really noticed that before
dark kernel
hey thanks for taking the time to review it. this really helps! i rewatched it a...
It feels really weird to say you should want to waddle some, but there were legit atleast one or 2 instances were you were mid-sprint jumping towards your target and like, half a second from being there and you step
true warren
It feels really weird to say you should want to waddle some, but there were legi...
yeah you right. + that one step on lock mid portal where i port like 1 meter away from where i started becuse i didnt wait
dark kernel
yeah you right. + that one step on lock mid portal where i port like 1 meter awa...
Just know I've played sub as well a little bit ago, not much this season. But a lot of the things I've said I do too, so it's really hard, because probably your best Wing condition is just being conscious of what your team is doing
And I really can't do that well in game versus when I'm watching myself blow it
That lock was pretty cracked though I'm not going to lie
That dude pumped massive damage.
wanton breach
Everyone’s been telling me nice wow players just carry you through the raids for...
I've leveled plenty of remix alts just by looking for "free boost" groups in the tool, there are plenty of kind souls who want to help others while they're farming the raids anyways
exotic dove
Everyone’s been telling me nice wow players just carry you through the raids for...
Do what I did just say "I guess wow really is pay to win in PVE content and I will just buy a carry" it will piss them off so they take you and your time is saved and you never see them again. I only did that twice the rest didn't care and invited me without question
Or those two times I just got really lucky that they hate people that buy carries with gold and don't want the game to be seen as pay to win
jolly sierra
i was lazy as fuck
so i paid like 35k for a infernal boost
and the final FOS
but is mostly free
so, depends
hazy monolith
so i paid like 35k for a infernal boost
Thanks for the idea
I really have to start in the boosting business
jolly sierra
Thanks for the idea
an anguished german which wanted to pay his token did this offer to me lol
waxen meteor
when does season ends homie?
spring bough
when does season ends homie?
Next Tuesday
But I think the cutoffs sometime the night before? Can’t remember
waxen meteor
damn didn't realize that close
i was thinking to do the whatever amount wins after 2400 achievement or try another class to elite
i guess in the end, i will just push every class to 1800
spring bough
Glad push season 1 of midnight most def cause cutoff is 2300 now for elite lol
waxen meteor
oh wow i didn't follow any midnight news
but after next tuesday, isn't there still like 2months or so before midnight?
spring bough
And CC is now only two DRs that are either 16seconds or 18 seconds can’t remember which
spring bough
but after next tuesday, isn't there still like 2months or so before midnight?
Yeah prepatch till march
waxen meteor
prepatch normally contains new talents etc. but no new levels right?
basically beta lol
waxen meteor
okay.. i guess there will be quite a lot of reading to do
lime oar
next week is gonna be fucked lol
spring bough
Can’t wait
outer sky
Like 13ilvls difference which is huge
crafted gear on beta is greater than 289 ilvl?
grave basin
Yes you can get it to above 300
With some tech i havent bothered to research
And loads of people are abusing it
static holly
Not really
Our best spec but it's like u do 10k crits and others 100k. It's more cute than good
dark moon
More cute than good, hahaha
static holly
We should dress up as sailor moon or something
true warren
just got obliterated in SS as a Sub against a 2 holy priests, ret, UH DK and a SV hunter going 1:5 with my only win being with the ret. i was targeted always except that one win with the ret and even tho i landed some good pre feints it seemed they just bursted through every defensive i had and genuienly left me clueless. unfortunately i didn't record it but what is a general strat gainst any of those 3 DPS?
outer sky
just got obliterated in SS as a Sub against a 2 holy priests, ret, UH DK and a S...
That means the ret went 5-1. Could have been that the ret "should have" went 6-0 but some random bullshit trolled the one game you lost with him
potent pivot
https://www.wowhead.com/news/rogue-must-haves-for-midnight-energy-economy-utilit...
good read
whispyr brings up some great points
maybe they'll listen 
static holly
He also has a pretty good UI solution on YouTube for rogues @potent pivot
spring bough
maybe they'll listen <:dead:932888396316155934>
Maybe lol
gusty hedge
this guys comment has a point, felt similar reading the outlaw wishlist 
static holly
In forums they suggested changing the resource system/talents on par like monks or similar. But whatever, it's outdated like the whole class/specs.
Minimal effort to make it somehow fit
grave basin
Supa played it on beta and without vigor the spec is legit unplayable
Two sinister strikes and your OOE like classic
dark kernel
That's what I'm sayin man
I know the current play style wasn't great for outlaw but really it just needed small tweaks
Now we got the kitchen sink ripped out and it's going to be ass again
lime oar
Our best spec but it's like u do 10k crits and others 100k. It's more cute than ...
it’s hard to say when people are abusing gear but from everything i’ve watched most specs dmg is either similar or dogshit. game is just slower paced
jolly sierra
in mop classic combat rog is the same, its shit without the gear and it turns good when u are geared xd
gleaming sentinel
this guys comment has a point, felt similar reading the outlaw wishlist <a:verys...
Man…
dark kernel
in mop classic combat rog is the same, its shit without the gear and it turns go...
MoP combat has way more tools than the reworked outlaw will though lol
exotic dove
So with Midnight as of right now on beta I do have concerns. To keep it simple I will just keep it on Assa for now. With Assa I am fine with pooling energy but it needs Damage tuning and have Envenom hit really really hard (not saying make it OP) to make it reasonable in its current design with said energy pooling.
Also I still hate the new crimson tempest
jolly sierra
MoP combat has way more tools than the reworked outlaw will though lol
i am watching my rog
in classic
and...
xd
exotic dove
Think Monday night
sharp sierra
Two sinister strikes and your OOE like classic
Sounds like coin damage needs to be nerfed by 33%
dark kernel
In midnight if rogue is bad I'm just rerolling this time.
Enough has been enough for me
spring bough
Sounds like coin damage needs to be nerfed by 33%
hidden moth
In midnight if rogue is bad I'm just rerolling this time.
Tbh, midnight pvp looks boring as fuck
dark kernel
Yeah but classic pvp isn't an option
hidden moth
Tbc arena
dark kernel
Nope
There is zero competitive fidelity to classic pvp. Plain and simple. I'm not going to go on another schizophrenic rant about it but it's not an option
You can play it if you want to do it for fun, but the entire game mode is boosters and sellers
With 1/10 the retail population
Might as well go play quake live you'll have the same experience
spring bough
With 1/10 the retail population
Imagine if they made a retail achievement for it
Shit would be flooded
hidden moth
You can play it if you want to do it for fun, but the entire game mode is booste...
Boosters and sellers are the same thing
dark kernel
Boosters and sellers are the same thing
Egirl boosters do it because they are Simps
No money transaction
hidden moth
At least in tbc arena u can kill a solo dps in a cc window vs midnight they hit 30% ho then heal themselves to full every single time
dark kernel
There are like more female gladiators this season than the rest of the other two seasons combined because of the mount
hidden moth
Bc mount looks good?
dark kernel
Yeah the rank ones are working overtime
hidden moth
So more people are incentivized to go get it
hidden moth
Yeah the rank ones are working overtime
No one is talkin about those
dark kernel
Anyway dude. It's fine
TBC is just a non-viable option for a good competitive atmosphere it's not going to be
If you like it and that's your thing and you have the time that you want to invest to try to push glad in that by all means
hidden moth
Besides ur telling me u can’t win a 3v3 arena vs a team who has their 3rd afk in the back XD
dark kernel
But you'd literally have a better and easier time in retail
hidden moth
Easier yes better no
dark kernel
Besides ur telling me u can’t win a 3v3 arena vs a team who has their 3rd afk in...
Tell that when you have smexxin doing 4 million DPS on unholy DK and you have absterge healing
lime oar
classic is a waste of time since all those servers are inevitably going to die and ur toons will sit there for eternity
hidden moth
Can’t wait to wait till 150% damp to have a kill window every game
hidden moth
Tell that when you have smexxin doing 4 million DPS on unholy DK and you have ab...
U know uh dk isn’t in tbc right?
dark kernel
That's why I said we should just call it because you just want to pissing match anyway
This is a fruitless conversation
If you like TBC play TBC but don't pretend it's good we've literally already done this twice
hidden moth
It’s not even a pissing match XD
spring bough
7 days
lime oar
prepatch is gonna give us all the new talents and pruning as well?
hidden moth
prepatch is gonna give us all the new talents and pruning as well?
yes
and good bye to addons etc
good bye to good uis
hello 3-4 button rotations with the same complexity as any spec in tbc, honestly specs have less complexity in midnight than a tbc melee weaving bm hunter XD
dark kernel
Rest in piss weakauras you were the most SHIT addon ever
lime oar
idc about addons or UI
hidden moth
hello 1 cheapshot per vanish
lime oar
it’s not that bad brother i think we’re crashing out a lil much over it lmao
i just think the pacing is complete ass
hidden moth
i agree the pacing is as
just after playing specs on beta
nothing feels fun
press ur 2 min cd maybe a 20-30 second cd here and there and spam the same filler button until u can press ur cds again
grave basin
There were more blue texts spent for the two weeks of housing updates than all of m+/pvp
In terms of balance tuning
So yea s3 is complete abandonware
dark kernel
just makes me a bit sad about pvp...
Girly fucking shit sells.
gleaming sentinel
Girly fucking shit sells.
I like housing as much as the next person, its super cool and it shows they ahve the chops to make things great
dark kernel
I like housing as much as the next person, its super cool and it shows they ahve...
Your right and the best hope is some people come back to enjoy it and also other game modes like ours
spring bough
Your right and the best hope is some people come back to enjoy it and also other...
If they update and spend time on PvP like they have with housing….. PvP would do numbers again
Like with the outdoor allotment. Feedback was it needed more and boom next week people had it. Imagine if the response / updates were that fast with PvP feedback
spring bough
Crazy that we get an epic bg
Can’t wait to only play it when the epic bg weekly is live
dark kernel
If they update and spend time on PvP like they have with housing….. PvP would do...
I don't know if you saw. But Blizzard said they are never putting that effort in again. Like they said this.
Pretend it's HoTS and the game mode has been sunset
spring bough
I don't know if you saw. But Blizzard said they are never putting that effort in...
Then I guess PvP stays the same indefinitely lol
outer sky
So with Midnight as of right now on beta I do have concerns. To keep it simple I...
I think what people are missing is that rogues are unique in the fact that our CC also costs us our resource (energy). this whole "pooling" thing would be fine if sap, gouge, cheap shot, and kidney didn't also cost energy and our resource was just dumped into damage like hunter focus. The reason this feels so bad is because even if you have energy to do your damage, you burn a shit ton of it in the set up. Other classes don't have to deal with that. It's a terrible, dated design. So unless youre sitting on globals until youre almost energy capped, you waste most of the duration of your CC waiting on globals to do damage. And if you don't do the CC then your damage is pointless. I'm actually really surprised more rogue mains haven't raised this issue becausue it's so glaringly obvious that being the only class that has to spend it's main resource to both set up and to do damage fundementally changes our relationship with said resource and means you really can't treat it like rage, focus, insanity, fury, etc etc. What would be a good design for those classes is terrible for rogues precisely because of this interaction.
potent pivot
we aren't the only class that has it's CC cost resources.
spring bough
Get em trickz
outer sky
Mana doesnt count for what im saying
gleaming sentinel
rogue caster healer will somehow win blizzcon again
spring bough
Tuesday gonna be fun. Bet energy on outlaw feels meh without apex lol
exotic dove
I think what people are missing is that rogues are unique in the fact that our C...
The only thing that will probably be done by blizzard is damage increase and its why I posted why I did above. If Envenom was made into an actually heavy hitter than the energy pooling design is fine. Right now though the damage is too low for what you have to do from what I tested. Sub is the only spec I played that in this current beta build I can make work to achieve my pvp goals.
outer sky
The only thing that will probably be done by blizzard is damage increase and its...
its not fine if your entire kidney is spent waiting on the global to press it
exotic dove
I mean if its bad then I will just play Sub
outer sky
ok so thatll be fun for 3 days before the hot fix 50% nerf
potent pivot
feral has basically the same cc design as rogue btw
spring bough
Ferals wish they were rogues
exotic dove
Ok and after they nerfed Sub I still succeed with it what is your point
outer sky
feral has basically the same cc design as rogue btw
I think the existence of cyclone basically negates that entire argument
potent pivot
nah
outer sky
i get 1 cyclone every 2 minutes
potent pivot
you brought up CC costing resources
not amount of CC
don't change the subject to fit w/e you want lol
outer sky
I didnt think "and needs it for every CC every go" needed to be said
potent pivot
outer sky
i dont really see why its okay for druids to have bash, rake, maim, and clone but we get cheap, kidney, and a 2m CD blind
potent pivot
thats a different discussion
gleaming sentinel
If outlaw has a million fans, then I am one of them.
If outlaw has ten fans, then I am one of them.
If outlaw has only one fan, then that is me.
If outlaw has no fans, then that means I am no longer on Azeroth.
If the World of Warcraft is against outlaw, then I am against the World of Warcraft.
potent pivot
even i have said many times that its shit rogue CC gets nerfed and feral's hasn't really been touched
but thats kinda moving the goalpost of the original statement
outer sky
ok, feral has to deal with it to. Except theyre less dependant on energy spending CC
i dont think that changes my point much
potent pivot
idk i think its fine the way it is
spring bough
even i have said many times that its shit rogue CC gets nerfed and feral's hasn'...
I wish cyclone had a cooldown
potent pivot
other classes have to spend globals to build resources
which is why most of their CC doesn't cost said resource
dark kernel
I am now a fan of playing the best possible class.
outer sky
kinda moving the goal post of the original statement
potent pivot
?????
exotic dove
If Assa does end up being that bad then no one will play it and it will get fixed in a x.1 patch. This is why I invest in two specs of a class so if one is made into trash by blizzard then I have a fall back
dark kernel
A guy in my guild group had never played retail wow in 10 years, came back rolled an unholy DK and grinded legend in 2 weeks from not playing wow in 10 years.
I'm never not meta humping again
potent pivot
windwalker afaik is the only energy class that doesn't spend energy on CC, and they have a lower energy cap to compensate iirc
exotic dove
Windwalker might have their own problems I have not seen on on beta yet
since you mentioned it
exotic dove
true
outer sky
i dont really see any meaningful difference between a hunter having to spend globals to build focus to spend and a rogue having to spend globals to build combo points to spend. Aside from the fact that the rogue's builder globals also cost another resource (energy) that they have to manage
potent pivot
so you don't understand basic game design or
outer sky
insulting me isnt an argument
potent pivot
i asked a question
outer sky
i know its something blah blah about how combo points increase effectiveness
potent pivot
energy classes just have to function differently than fury/focus classes
if you made all rogue/feral cc free, you'd have to then nerf energy regen
outer sky
because it passively regens yeah
maybe i dont even disagree with you and actually just think they took it too far on beta
have you played it?
you literally sit your entire kidney waiting for energy for a global
potent pivot
not yet but i've seen it
so you build the combo points and pool before pressing kidney
outer sky
and now that dumbfuck warrior is back in los of his healer
one thing I think they should do is just make energy and energy regen fixed and replace all of those kind of talents with things that are usefull
if theyre going to do this
because youre forced to take 100% of those talents
if youre offered a bunch of different energy+regen talents and you take all of them then you kind of should be flooded with energy because of how much you invested into that resource
if its this slow even with every energy talent taken then practically you have no choice
potent pivot
i don't think you should ever be flooded with energy in a healthy game design
outer sky
okay then feral is fucked too
potent pivot
its kinda normal
outer sky
who cares if its normal lol
normal hasnt exactly been doing the game much good lately
why do I have 4 talents intended to buff my energy and still have buttons greyed out for like 5 straight seconds
just make that static
for rogues and feral
and give us real talents
stoic spruce
You passively regen
potent pivot
its normal to have to pool resources man
stoic spruce
Wait let me read the paper
outer sky
its normal to have to pool resources man
and you called me a brick wall...
potent pivot
even a warrior or dh can sit there and build max fury and hold til they need it
potent pivot
and you called me a brick wall...
i just disagree with these takes
potent pivot
you're used to being able to spam globals, i understand that. pressing button fun.
but the entire game has gotten so lost on that, which is bad imo
outer sky
i just disagree with these takes
why do you think there should be 4 talents buffing energy if youre going to be energy starved even if you take all of them?
at that point just 86 those talents
make the energy and regen whatever they think is healthy
and give us shit that actually matters
potent pivot
why do you think there should be 4 talents buffing energy if youre going to be e...
because most talents are just there
they can't reallistically give you 20 different 'meaningful choices'
stoic spruce
We are never not gonna have filler talents
potent pivot
some talents are always going to be 'fodder buffs'
outer sky
these aren't "filler"
a filler talent is like
doesnt matter if you take it, doesn't matter if you dont
but if you NEED IT to play the game
there shouldnt be 4 of them
doing the same thing
stacking
and requiring you to take them all just to play the game
stoic spruce
Maybe filler wasn't the right word
But
Energy talents being the meaningful choice talent isn't so bad when there aren't really better alternatives to damage talents or utility talents that'd probably be locked in.
Do we need so many energy talents? Probably
Not
stoic spruce
You can make cases for both sides of the argument
potent pivot
energy economy being low
stoic spruce
I would argue we have too many energy talents but that's not to say I don't think we should have any
potent pivot
i think feral has even more ngl
but almost every class has some form of resource talents
fury/focus/energy/etc
they are all basically mandatory
stoic spruce
I know I always have the RP for a death strike or coil when I need it
hidden moth
I like housing as much as the next person, its super cool and it shows they ahve...
adds nothing to the game, aside from a gold sink in the form of a sims rehash
gleaming sentinel
adds nothing to the game, aside from a gold sink in the form of a sims rehash
Creative expression is fun for a lot of people including myself
stoic spruce
adds nothing to the game, aside from a gold sink in the form of a sims rehash
That's a gross simplification
While true, you can make that exact argument with mounts and transmog
hidden moth
While true, you can make that exact argument with mounts and transmog
sure but mounts and tmog havnt taken nearly as much time and resourse away from other game aspects like housing
U CANNOT TELL ME THE UI WOULDNT BE BETTER THE DAMAGE METERS ETC WOULDNT BE BETTER IF BLIZZ CANCELED HOUSING AND PUT THOSE RESOURCES INTO THE ACTUAL GAMEPLAY
stoic spruce
Housing has its own team so probably not
hidden moth
say housing has 100 people
kill housing split the 100
10 to pvp 10 to ui 10 to class tuning w/e
"oh well the housing people dont have exp in those fields of game"
well then fire them and hire people who can actually fucking code the playable game
not some fucking minecraft sim bs
half portal
gleaming sentinel
?
stoic spruce
If you don't iterate upon your game with new things, people get bored.
You think the majority of people care about what goes on under the hood?
hidden moth
This is why games stagnate and die btw
sure but dont try to be something u arnt
stoic spruce
There's nothing in housing that wow isnt
hidden moth
wheres the combat? the lore? the loot?
gleaming sentinel
Housing is a win, idc. What upsets me is it shows they do have competency but clearly don’t care about improving PvP meaningfully.
That whole thing about the PvP island and karesh getting announced and the commentator was like “well I know where I’m never going” and everyone laughs.
stoic spruce
Yeah that was annoying
gleaming sentinel
Idk if I’ve ever had less faith after that, we’re a side show it’s that simple
Pretty offensive tbh
stoic spruce
wheres the combat? the lore? the loot?
The socializing, quests, progression is there
gleaming sentinel
wheres the combat? the lore? the loot?
My favorite part about housing is all the shit I did back in old expacs for rep and shit paid off and I was able to get a bunch of cool stuff off the rip
hidden moth
The socializing, quests, progression is there
dont try to pawn off those "go here click this" as quests and or prog
stoic spruce
Somewhat
hidden moth
those are chores
stoic spruce
Your house itself has progression
hidden moth
Your house itself has progression
i shouldnt have to go lvl up a house
gleaming sentinel
You don’t have to
gleaming sentinel
Like anything in the game…
stoic spruce
So you think they shouldn't have added housing?
potent pivot
i think adding housing is a good thing as it'll hopefully bring in new/returning players
stoic spruce
Let me ask you this
hidden moth
better mounts than the fuck ass garg in s1 s2 wwi
stoic spruce
Why do you have this "I don't like it so nobody else should have it" mentality?
potent pivot
but they obviously need to improve the rest of the game, without a doubt
the game's been stagnating a long ass time
so housing wasn't a bad play imo
gleaming sentinel
Why do you have this "I don't like it so nobody else should have it" mentality?
Head scratcher for me
potent pivot
like osrs has been constantly growing for the past idk, decade
because they constantly add more content
stoic spruce
because they constantly add more content
And there's always something more important to be worked on I imagine
hidden moth
Why do you have this "I don't like it so nobody else should have it" mentality?
its not even that
its a
spend those resources into making the specs feel good to play
make the ui better GIVE BETTER FUCKING CONTENT
potent pivot
And there's always something more important to be worked on I imagine
yes and no
they're also constantly improving old content
so
its kinda just a goated dev team
stoic spruce
Idk what that means
potent pivot
wdym
potent pivot
huh
stoic spruce
That's so true
potent pivot
the players legit decide what the dev team's next projects are basically
potent pivot
but idk, if they added that to wow it'd prolly be terrible
stoic spruce
But
potent pivot
all pvp questions would get spam downvoted
stoic spruce
If they stopped giving pvp attention in general, and not the "we haven't had tuning in a long time" attention, but blatant disregard for pvp, would you be opposed to it's removal?
No new arenas, sets, etc.
Absolutely nothing
stoic spruce
all pvp questions would get spam downvoted
They'd probably make a blue post saying they won't consider removing it
potent pivot
If they stopped giving pvp attention in general, and not the "we haven't had tun...
idk i feel like we're already there
stoic spruce
How?
potent pivot
the blatant disregard for pvp?
stoic spruce
Read what I said
hidden moth
If they stopped giving pvp attention in general, and not the "we haven't had tun...
not getting tuning in a long time treatment
dawg
3 months
potent pivot
oh like no new elite sets etc?
stoic spruce
Yes
hidden moth
is longer than that
i mean tbh
i doubt they wont remove pvp soon or w/e
unfort ff14 pvp is only 4v4 and its kinda ass
stoic spruce
Tuning is one thing but if they didn't care, even if just a little, they wouldn't have given us Vanquishers Wake in S3 and perma comp stomp in midnight
That's a lot of work for something they don't care about
This isn't me saying it's good or bad
So don't spin it that way
hidden moth
Outlaw being F tier effectively all of S3
and 2
stoic spruce
It was decent in 2
hidden moth
i mean lets be honest they are doing the bare minimum to keep up the act of pvp is getting attention
they havnt cared since slands
vocal surge
Yeee
stoic spruce
I don't share that sentiment
vocal surge
Remember when Conquest gear was only as good as Normal difficulty gear?
stoic spruce
Nor do I find that sentiment justifiable when we have solo shuffle and blitz now
hidden moth
tbh conq gear should be hero track
stoic spruce
The pvp pve ilvl nerf hurt sooo bad
vocal surge
Agreed
hidden moth
or let me spend conq on a item (*once im a certain rating) to turn my conq gear into hero track stuff
vocal surge
Conquest gear is super time gated
Compared to PvE
You could get a gear advantage by just PvEing
And walking into PvE with 4p Tier, Myth track and some Conquest gear
hidden moth
lucky week 1 vault myth track item all it takes
not like week 1 +10s are even hard to do anyways
stoic spruce
Getting to 1800 and upgrading your gear super early in the season was such a cheat code back in DF
vocal surge
Yee
hidden moth
pve guys gettin 4 set week 1 where
unless u pve
pvp'ers have to wait till WEEK 5 FUCKING 5 TO GET 4 SET
vocal surge
Also we dont even have full Conq
By the time PVErs get it by the end of W1
We have to wait 2 months
hidden moth
pvers full hero track day 3 of season js
stoic spruce
I miss pvp vault
hidden moth
i dont
vocal surge
pvers full hero track day 3 of season js
Btw we slamming M+ on S1 start of Midnight?
hidden moth
i get a shitty crit vers ring for assa rogue
and now i gotta fight this rogue who got mast vers main hand?
hidden moth
Btw we slamming M+ on S1 start of Midnight?
ngl
stoic spruce
and now i gotta fight this rogue who got mast vers main hand?
Yes
hidden moth
im prob skiping s1 midnight till like .5 .7 patch
vocal surge
Dang
hidden moth
Yes
slur
unfair advantage in pvp due to rng
may as well bring raid trinkets back into the mix
lemme get a shadowmourne to be pvp viable
spring bough
Raid trinkets the 🐐
stoic spruce
Sometimes you're that rogue that got the main hand
hidden moth
id rather not try to win a
stoic spruce
may as well bring raid trinkets back into the mix
Hell yeah
spring bough
Skulkers pew pew
hidden moth
1/50 chance
spring bough
Glad mount too
spring bough
And 2300 is elite now
hidden moth
tbh
stoic spruce
Max ilvl big red button
hidden moth
i think they are making the pvp rewards basically free to get people to come try it
spring bough
Rogues 3s ez glad at 2300
vocal surge
i think they are making the pvp rewards basically free to get people to come try...
Btw I'm shocked your guild literally gave up Cutting Edge at the very tail end of the season
hidden moth
cant wait to spend 20 min in que to have 10 minute matches bc the games slow paced as fuck
stoic spruce
Chains of ice, tentacle, big red button, HoA combo was an absolute health deleter
hidden moth
Btw I'm shocked your guild literally gave up Cutting Edge at the very tail end o...
bro i could NUT ON MY KEYBOARD
and the semen could play better than everyone in that guild aside logan and shria
vocal surge
hidden moth
the fact i even gave that guild time of day past boss 4
only reason i stayed was i finally got my fiance raiding again
vocal surge
Like talk to anyone stuck running Heroic raids cause no guild
And people would kill for a spot to do Dimensius Mythic
hidden moth
nah i joined who gonna run tbc with them
vocal surge
Even rn
vocal surge
Sheesh
hidden moth
not "oh dont be mad they messeg the mech up again even though we have 140+ wipes on this boss fight"
u fuck a mech ur out, benched loot banned etc
cut throat how it should be no fucking around no call outs bc "oh my gma has cancer wahhhhhhhhhhhh" well she isnt dead yet and wont die in the next 2 hours get ur ass in raid
stoic spruce
22 year old game btw
hidden moth
22 year old game btw
22 year old game but people cant kill heroic more or less mythic
stoic spruce
Imagine
hidden moth
and just bc game 22 years old doesnt mean new content isnt hard
stoic spruce
Nah I just thought it was funny
hidden moth
isnt dark souls like 15 years old
stoic spruce
People play that with DK bongos
vocal surge
Can't wait for Prepatch
stoic spruce
Same
vocal surge
When Outlaw will be able to kill Healers
stoic spruce
I picture the South Park imagine when u said this
Idk that one
Or don't remember it
stoic spruce
When Outlaw will be able to kill Healers
It looks like it does good dam
spring bough
Idk that one
*imaginattiiioooonnnn
vocal surge
Time to play Murloc RPG
stoic spruce
Ive been playing resident evil until prepatch
gleaming sentinel
:
potent pivot
i mean the last 4 are just reskins anyways
what
stoic spruce
i mean the last 4 are just reskins anyways
They've been reskins since forever
sharp sierra
why cant they just go back to the old gearing
sharp sierra
or make a max server
stoic spruce
Holy moly am I sick of the same colors
stoic spruce
Been a while since PvP sets were diff than tier lol
Mop I think
spring bough
Was it panda or wod when the sets changed to reskins of raid tier
sharp sierra
Wasnt it also wod where the gear was scaled automatically? i forgot exactly how it worked but it was way easier
proud folio
any good assass streamers still doing shuffle? trying to watch some vods
potent pivot
any good assass streamers still doing shuffle? trying to watch some vods
try checking trimaz's vods/yt
proud folio
try checking trimaz's vods/yt
yeah he has 1 rogue shuffle vod up but seems like mostly blitz lately
potent pivot
What did i miss
We talked about the housing meta, pvp abandonment, and CC costing energy
grave basin
Idk ive played loads of specs now and the more """"""modern"""""" ones usually have the least friction in thier kit
Like evokers dont need essence to spam sleepwalk your entire team
Or rets dontneed HP to hoj
Feels very outdated but thats just imo
Not saying resources shouldnt matter, it should if you wanna minmax your DAMAGE
potent pivot
Best? Evokers? Rets? Opinion invalidated.
grave basin
BUT resources chokeholding cc or your kit is so classic design idk
Just doesnt feel smooth to play
stoic spruce
I don't think feint should cost energy
grave basin
I mean does leg sweep cost chi?
potent pivot
Just doesnt feel smooth to play
I didn’t know we were talking about our feelings
(I’m just messing with you I hope you know that)
grave basin
stoic spruce
Calling HR
hidden moth
feint crimson vial dismantle distract shouldnt cost energ
grave basin
Para and leg sweep and song all are resource free and it feels SMOOTH
potent pivot
I mean does leg sweep cost chi?
No but monk has much less energy right?
grave basin
You just press it
hidden moth
No but monk has much less energy right?
lets be honest
potent pivot
And less cc in general?
hidden moth
u use energy on monk for healing and palm
grave basin
Theres a talent called ascension that increases total energy
hidden moth
and u only press palm every like 4 globalas
potent pivot
And their whole “don’t press the same button twice” thing
Incentivizing builder spam with cc costing them energy would be kinda weird
potent pivot
Energy not chi sorry
hidden moth
guys lets make strangulate cost 50 runic power
grave basin
Energy not chi sorry
Leg sweep costing energy wouldnt be wierd at all
hidden moth
sleep walk 3 essence
3 holy power for rep
potent pivot
Idk I like that you’ll have to plan ahead for things
grave basin
It would just make the spec more janky
hidden moth
hard to plan ahead in shuffle lets be real
stoic spruce
guys lets make strangulate cost 50 runic power
Stop that right now young man
hidden moth
1 sec ur about to go for a kill next sec ur pala just reuped the stun dr duration with a 3x dr hoj
hidden moth
I’m so sick of the mash every global like a headless chicken gameplay
welcome to midnight
grave basin
Different mentality then, i dont think pooling resources belongs in modern wow
potent pivot
Different mentality then, i dont think pooling resources belongs in modern wow
That’s insane
grave basin
Nah no cap
potent pivot
Zoomer mentality
grave basin
Pooling needs to go
hidden moth
when EVERY SPEC IS ABC always be casting
and assa is
sit and fucking auto attack
u get more apm on a fucking classic rogue than a modern assa
potent pivot
Haven’t you played ff14
grave basin
I totally get the perspective of planning ahead
And dumping a full energy bar into a kidney
hidden moth
Haven’t you played ff14
im not pooling on a ninja
u have odd and even minute windows
hidden moth
i still get to press my 1 2 3 combo as filler between
potent pivot
im not pooling on a ninja
you pool resources on most of the classes in FF
potent pivot
yeah if we had some piss filler to press that'd be fine imo
hidden moth
dancer may pool procs but thats it
potent pivot
but pooling is a good thing in MMO class design imo
hidden moth
yeah if we had some piss filler to press that'd be fine imo
THATS ALL I WANT
make throw dagger 0 energy and let me spam it
idgaf
grave basin
Pooling has its place when the game is slow paced and you can methodically plan like 5 globals ahead in pvp
hidden moth
^
potent pivot
you can
grave basin
Like in actual classic you can pool all day
grave basin
Cause youre like 5-8 kiting and shit
hidden moth
i mean we out here predicting if mage uses blink invis nova alter back displace etc
grave basin
And cheap and kidney doesnt dr
potent pivot
if damage is tuned properly
grave basin
So you can cheap
hidden moth
sure u can but
potent pivot
pooling won't matter
grave basin
Pool
hidden moth
if damage is tuned properly
yerah thats the issue
grave basin
Kidney with full enegy
hidden moth
u think bliz is gonna tune dam
potent pivot
damage tuning is not the issue
hidden moth
when they havnt tuned shit in months
potent pivot
because beta isn't done being tuned
potent pivot
when they havnt tuned shit in months
???
they just did some midnight tuning this week
hidden moth
im talkin bout live dawg
potent pivot
idc about live
hidden moth
last tuning i saw was a nerf to trinity 3 years ago
potent pivot
live rogue damage is fine
hidden moth
dont have to pool in live
potent pivot
...........................................................
holy fucking 
what are we talking about
beta or live
grave basin
Idk im talking about overall game design
potent pivot
killin me here
potent pivot
i think pooling damage should be the optimal thing to do on nearly every class
like pooling runes on DK, fury on war/dh
etc
grave basin
Brother im talking only about cc
Which was the original point
Ie needing to pool resources to use your cc
Which is why i mentioned sleepwalk and hoj
grave basin
Why does kidney need to cost 5 cp?
potent pivot
you've got tea, etc
hidden moth
like pooling runes on DK, fury on war/dh
i never pool runes on dk
and never run out of gcds
potent pivot
its not about gcds on dk
it isn't an energy class
not being able to press a GCD every second on rogue shouldn't be a problem
potent pivot
Why does kidney need to cost 5 cp?
why does maim then
grave basin
Remove it for both
potent pivot
i genuinely don't understand how you can't see how dumb that would be
stoic spruce
I don't see how it'd be dumb
grave basin
I still need to build the chi
grave basin
I said kidney
potent pivot
i don't care
grave basin
How many kidneys do rogues have ?
stoic spruce
1
potent pivot
answer the question
potent pivot
1min CD?
stoic spruce
What point are you trying to make
grave basin
45 actually
grave basin
Ah ok 50
potent pivot
What point are you trying to make
lets shorten kidney's duration, and make its CD 1min
grave basin
Its for sure lower than 1min
potent pivot
because that's what would happen if you really wanted it to be free
you can't just singularly look at rogue on its own
potent pivot
you have to compare every class in the game if you're going to complain that other classes' CC is 'free'
potent pivot
rogue has more CC than most classes
grave basin
Its just the entire game has its cc being free
Except this one class
Because reasons
potent pivot
wrong
grave basin
Whats the exception
potent pivot
feral
grave basin
fading blade
Nerf clone
grave basin
Ok rogue and rogue from temu
stoic spruce
Delete clone
stoic spruce
PvP has been worse off because of it
potent pivot
mfd was even removed so we can't insta kidney
and that was only for 1/3rd of the kidneys we casted
i just don't see how you can, in good faith, make these arguments idk
grave basin
Mfw strang now needs to cost 50 RP cause its the only melee with two kicks
stoic spruce
That's not why mfd was removed, it was just a by product of its removal
potent pivot
i mean do we actually know "why"
stoic spruce
Yeah
potent pivot
-.-
stoic spruce
It's literally in the blue post
That's when they started culling buttons for classes
They should've asked me which buttons to get rid of though
potent pivot
its pulling from the wiki
stoic spruce
Shocker
potent pivot
regardless, it doesn't matter
stoic spruce
It has a different duration in pve
Kidney 8 in pve ain't it?
grave basin
Ye
grave basin
Longer cd to justify the aoe
I can see the logic in that
I mean tmr blizzard could make hex scale with maelstorm weapon stacks or strang with RP spent or hoj with HP spent and it wouldnt be out of line
potent pivot
idk man
grave basin
But they purposely dont include that kind of friction
potent pivot
i just genuinely hate this mentality of "if i can't cast a global every second, game bad"
stoic spruce
I think that should only apply to your dps rotation
grave basin
I think that should only apply to your dps rotation
This is like the 3rd time im saying this
You can have "pool culture" and still have cc be resourceless
Cause even if you have free kidney and no energy pooled youre not doing shit are you
Like enhance still has to pool maeslstorm weapon stacks in thier hex window out of aesendance
But they dont need to spend stacks to hex itself
potent pivot
but on live cc costs resources and isn't a problem?
stoic spruce
Feint causes issues
stoic spruce
Live also doesn't have the changes to resources that midnight has
potent pivot
i have a legitimate question
stoic spruce
Rn in live yeah its fine
potent pivot
why do you guys even play rogue
grave basin
Cause it was my main for ages
stoic spruce
Outlaw is fun
grave basin
What does that have to do with overarching game design
potent pivot
i was just curious
grave basin
I do play my rogue even if i dont post about it
Its just not very exciting anymore
Which is a shame, i wish it had that spark when i first started playing it
Other classes just kept getting better and better and rogues still using mechanics from cata
I mean the most aggregious example is pally bubble [which i think they took too far]
hidden moth
im better at rogue in shuffle/ 3v3 /pvp in general than dh so i play it bc it gets me the highest rating personally
that and burst damage in a cc window is nice
grave basin
Sub rogue was my first "true main" i had from wrath till df
Then when other classes had their DF talent trees
hidden moth
i also enjoy fast paced classes, adhd spec if u will. why dh and rogue are my top 2
grave basin
And blizzard threw every possible button to other specs i just started to branch out more
stoic spruce
Sub rogue was my first "true main" i had from wrath till df
Always been combat/outlaw
Combat and then I added dk to my rotation in wrath
grave basin
I remember going into wod and they removed stance dancing macros for warrior defensives
Which was revolutionary
Modernisation
Didnt even need a shield and 1h anymore, just press def stance and you get these animated shields circling your toon
Technologia as they say
hidden moth
i will say i kinda played anything that was fun
static holly
Started with rogue (NE) back in 2005. I was never able to play anything else and have that feeling
Tried all classes but deleted most of them again. Priest is ok and makes fun as disc
Guess I start with a priest and get some tokens for my rogue till we get some tunings (or crate farming)
fallen scaffold
does deathmark copy your garrote/rupture thats already on the target?
dark moon
why do you guys even play rogue
Rogue is my main. Fell in love with it long, long time ago and only "mained" ele sham in s1 of SL and s1 of DF cause of how dog was rogue in m+. Lately i just been playing for some rewards (mainly pvp illusion) on rogue then having fun on other classes for their elite set and whatnot. But rogue seems dated and imho needs a complete overhaul - i want to have the fun other classes are having after their rework, but midnight doesn't seem to be the time yet.
potent pivot
i agree that an entire overhaul could be good
but i don't think that we'll ever get it
just limited talent tree reworks and pruning
dark moon
I'm not sure how the game would feel with 1 cheap shot as assa. I want the old sub also
potent pivot
No rupture no symbols is gonna be cringe
dark moon
Yeah
static holly
Adopt and adept. It will not change... They will only tune our DMG and that's it.
They will most likely think they can fix pvp by just adding more housing rewards to it. Lazy but that way they can push it's new kid
hollow carbon
I completely forgot about MfD.. I liked that ability. When I think about what they removed from rogue in the last 2 expansions I get sad. I am personally not a fan of midnight rogue Design for pvp. Will find out later in relation to every other class.
Personally I enjoyed Assa and Outlaw (not crackshot) the most, in every expansion. And now it seems like blizz just wants sub to be good in pvp.
dark moon
I'm interested to see how avidance makes use of sub midnight
dark kernel
I think sub just is getting the least changes
It's gotten 2 full reworks and a mini rework in 2 expansions
stoic spruce
Bet that's nice
spring bough
I think sub just is getting the least changes
So outlaws next right for hero talents right? 👀
dark kernel
So outlaws next right for hero talents right? 👀
LOL I don't know man
I was just pointing out that right now sub has received the most work, and it's probably in its most finished state which is why it's performing best in the beta
static holly
Probably right but wrong way to look at it for me.
With all the pruning they should have reworked every class / spec
But they don't have the time
The beta also is more marketing than anything else
grave basin
Beta is beta when you have a class dev that is alive
Ie pala/mage
Not so much when youre an abandoned class like monk
Arcane has more notes in one week than ww has from day 1 alpha till today
And im not memeing either someone made a side by side
In ww discord
static holly
I'll just wait and accept it as it is. We can't change it anyway. I'll just adapt
Not by rerolling!!
grave basin
Sure its your sub
All i know is this season has made me spit at my monitor from all the bs MM hunter one shots
And ive resolved to never brute forcing a 2400 on a c tier spec ever again
This season completely broke me lol
gleaming sentinel
Id argue assa rogue is the best melee in the game if not one of the best, especially in shuffle
grave basin
Ret is objectively the best
Assa is really strong
But ret is only """""melee""""" by arch type
Though id argue sv hunter is the best melee
Purely from shuffle teammates/opponents you dont have super hard counter lobbies
Like playing warrior/ww into triple mage type shit
dark kernel
Paladin has been nowhere near as obstructive to me as unholy DK recently
Actual abomination of a class.
harsh kiln
Paladin has been nowhere near as obstructive to me as unholy DK recently
yeah latest changes to pally made DK get past, b4 the changes it was ret/hunt. now it's undoubtably dk/hunt
imo
grave basin
yeah latest changes to pally made DK get past, b4 the changes it was ret/hunt. n...
big boi is ready
spring bough
big boi is ready
Lookin big
spring bough
dark kernel
The issue
Is unholy DK is just fun as fuck too
And they are current S tier on beta I hear
spring bough
And they are current S tier on beta I hear
When aren’t they one of the top two tiers lol
Remember SL? Off the rated start…. Run in. Press abom limb. And someone was dead within 15 seconds without fail every time
dark kernel
Dragonflight
spring bough
God I miss grippy abom limb
dark kernel
I'm prepping a Rogue, War, DK, and hunt for midnight
Then a priest for some healing learning
spring bough
Then a priest for some healing learning
Nothing to learn if you ply void disc just dps 😂
dark kernel
Nothing to learn if you ply void disc just dps 😂
I have never played any healing class or hybrid
spring bough
I made a mouse over for the shield, flash heal and renew. Hover my teammates w that. Hit them once in a while. Just spam dps and everyone is healed
dark kernel
So it's brand new
spring bough
Was my first go too. 1800 on it in like 4 hours if that lol
Insta ques freedom
I heard midnight void disc is easier too which I can’t comprehend cause it’s already pretty easy
static holly
Because you don't have to get atonement on each one individually like it is currently.
@potent pivot see Evangelism https://www.skill-capped.com/wowarticles/guides/discipline-priest-pvp-guide/#midnight-changes
I think sup made a video about it.
lone jasper
I want to learn pvp healing with disc. Love the playstyle very much
spring bough
Because you don't have to get atonement on each one individually like it is curr...
Atonement applied thru aoe somehow is what I remember hearing
Gonna make it so easy to just apply that and insta dps lol
dark kernel
Yeah that's broken