pvp

[outer sky]

They can afford to and still be at that rating as ret

Other classes can't

Yeah the last time I played my WW monk was DF S4 but I just 1 shot my way to 2.4 like it was nothing

Thats the only non rogue spec ive ever played to 2.4

[gleaming sentinel]

Nice

[wanton breach]

most other classes/specs at least

[outer sky]

Yeah

[jaunty mirage]

Some lobbies after the first couple round I can already tell my goal is to just break even

Double paladin hunter lobbies and shit

[outer sky]

There are lobbies and i load in, see the comp, and immediately think "ok just gotta get out of this without losing rating"

[jaunty mirage]

Lmao fr

You’re just like oh god get me out of here

[outer sky]

The warlock i queue with got rank 1 in season 1 and he had a lobby with 3 shamans in it

He said it was the worst lobby he's ever played

3 windshears

3 grounding totems

[jaunty mirage]

Even just one decent shaman is a nightmare for destro

[outer sky]

Yeah

[outer sky]

My thought is usually "I waited an hour for this shit??"

[jaunty mirage]

Lmao

[grave basin]

that kinda why i stopped playing my ww this season

[outer sky]

I can't stand the spec without keefers

[grave basin]

every spec has bad lobbies but some specs has like 60-70% chance of getting pure horse shit

[outer sky]

It feels awful

[grave basin]

like imagine dev + 2 paladins + hunter

wtf do you even do

[outer sky]

Or frost mage

[grave basin]

youre just taking the cock

[outer sky]

Yeah people dont know how bad it really is for WW

It has a reputation for being extremely mobile

Its really not

Its mobility is very much geared towards running away from things

Not connecting and sticking

[grave basin]

ww without turbo omega nucleur burst is just useless

i hate this brawler version

also

pog

[outer sky]

Nice!

[outer sky]

It NEEDS targeted mobility. I also dont like how they made Slicing Winds a mandatory talent. Because I vastly prefer serpent kick for mobility.

[grave basin]

well good news

slicing winds is now directly baked into conduit for next expac

enjoy

[outer sky]

Yeah I read about that

[grave basin]

they removed the one talent everyone loved

the zappy zap

and kept slicing winds

incompetance knows no bounds

[outer sky]

But like just give us keefers back it feels horrible not having it

[grave basin]

everytime theres some "use utility for damage" button it always ends up like piss

idk why blizzard never learns

either vanish for damage, momentum dh or slicing winds

they actually already learned this with chi torpedo in WOD

but what can ya do

[outer sky]

I actually do genuinely wonder what their thought process is sometimes. They'll put changes through that the overwhelming majority of the player base is against

[grave basin]

i mean they got rid of wounds for unholy dk

[outer sky]

Like some shit is like how could they have ever thought that was a good idea

[grave basin]

which is good

then they put "wounds" on frost mage

[wanton breach]

my head is dizzy and i lost 100 rating cause mages and rets cant press their buttons 🙁

[grave basin]

so like ???????

[jaunty mirage]

Which is insane lmao

[wanton breach]

I applaud any healer who can stay below 2k rating

[grave basin]

below or above

[wanton breach]

yes

[jaunty mirage]

Also I everyone decided spell warden was too good for uhdk the anti-wizard class so they removed it

[wanton breach]

who can stay sane* below 2k rating

[jaunty mirage]

Then they just randomly give it to ret paladins

[grave basin]

they SPECIFICALLY removed ret's ability to wipe off their own teammates dots with blinding light

like it was deliberate

cause pink class has to be special

meanwhile song of chi ji still wipes out dots

[jaunty mirage]

lol

[grave basin]

and im pretty sure incap wipes outs dots still

just training wheels upon training wheels

[outer sky]

When TWW was being developed and the hero talents were made available to preview, we saw that deathstalker mark for assa rogue was applied with ambush and literally every assa rogue i know and a shit ton on the forums all said "tie this to garrote instead of ambush it'll be way better" but they didnt change it and now in Midnight theyre changing it to be applied with garrote instead but my question is why did we have to wait for another expansion for that change to happen when everyone was asking for it since the beta of the current expansion????

[grave basin]

cause blizzard needs to give dev time to mages

[wanton breach]

repentance, freezing trap, blind, incap, sheep wipe out dots iirc, not sure about seduction

[spring bough]

how does some1 die from my cape procing

when i dont even have them targeted

bleeds?

[grave basin]

your dots

[spring bough]

funny asf

[outer sky]

The best is when you die but later your sudden demise procs. So like youre dead but you killed someone

[grave basin]

blinding light got the special treatment though

monkaHmm

[outer sky]

They need to give that treatment to song of chi

Its so annoying

Big ass pink cloud just strolling through the map cleansing my damage off everyone

[grave basin]

i bet my ass they forgot that spell even existed

[outer sky]

Ya know what's bullshit? So if you cast song of chi, it spawns the cloud but if you get pally glared even after you've already cast it, it'll "miss" as it goes through people

Its the dumbest interaction ever

Like the glare makes it miss even after you've cast and spawned the cloud wtf

[grave basin]

you know whats even more bs

glare makes karma miss

lol

[outer sky]

Yeah I know about that one

[grave basin]

bad enough they can bop it off

[tight hill]

glare makes traps already on the ground miss lol

[jaunty mirage]

Because they have a history of not wanting to listen

[outer sky]

The funniest shit with karma is how you need to be facing your target to use it. Ive killed so many monks by stunning them, then shadowstepping them so when they trinket i can restun them before they have time to turn around and karma me lmfao

[jaunty mirage]

I played a bit of classic and the main recurring theme from classic boomers is that retail wow basically went off the rails because they implemented all the QoL stuff players wanted etc.

When the reality is the biggest issue with retail for a long time has been that blizzard STOPPED listening to players

They decided a while ago that they know best and we are gonna play the game how they want us to play it

[grave basin]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/the-midnight-beta-release-date-is-november-11th-pre-purchase-epic-edition-for-379072

[outer sky]

You'd think that they would prefer to grow the game and rake in more money from more players as opposed to flexing on us

[grave basin]

See you guys on ptr

[outer sky]

Just saw this as well. I'm going to play the beta for sure

[spring bough]

3-3 all morning cause of stupid bullshit

[grave basin]

Gonna headshot with my boomstick

[spring bough]

rets not using freedome

monks not casting their bubble shit until 1%

fun times today fun times

no one pressing buttons they have gotta love it

[grave basin]

Just don't get silenced bro

[outer sky]

Look on the bright side. At least youre not losing rating

[spring bough]

i sat in 20 slows

when i could have got freedom

and been out

[pliant lintel]

/ping [@player]
/i ++DISPEL ME!++

spam that

works sometimes

[grave basin]

That never works

[outer sky]

I got banned for a week. Not silenced. Banned. And had to play my wife's account recently because stupid people still dont know how to play Warsong Gulch even though its been in the game for 21 years.

[grave basin]

Blitz is truly the ban magnet

Every rogue here that's gotten banned has done it through blitz

Probably cause so many reports come in at once

Like your whole team mass reports you

And it's joever

[outer sky]

3k mmr and my team is 6v1-ing a warlock in the middle of the map while the EFC just prances by

[grave basin]

Yea I played a normal BG just now for the conquest on my main

And it was a katmongu

We're losing badly and this warlock is like we gotta get more points and shit

Meanwhile he's less than half of everyone's damage

So I called him out for doing healer damage on a Z axis map

And he's like I'm picking up the orbs bro

I check the score board and he picked up one orb whole game

I just can't with BGs

[outer sky]

I played a 10 man rbg last week and this was the result. Low rated but still. Its funny because the AI players in comp stomp still usually score more points than these people did against us

[grave basin]

I got my battlemaster/justicar

That's all the BGs for a lifetime

One wrong move and it's a mass report

[outer sky]

Clowned on these losers. 2620mmr and they didn't score 1 point on us

[spring bough]

15 seconds into the match

[grave basin]

He remembered his freedom bind

Atleast

[outer sky]

Love to see it

[grave basin]

One more of those and he might remember he can wall in stuns

Not enough training wheels for pink class

[fathom crag]

biggest mistake to type in wow haha

ive never got banned in like 14 years of playing wow

before i qd blitz

[outer sky]

Me neither!

[pliant lintel]

same

[fathom crag]

but ppl r so soft nowadays

[spring bough]

nah disc throwing this lobby

[fathom crag]

u say 1 thing u get censored insta

[spring bough]

bro has casted 1 renew over 3 rounds

oh he just left

[fathom crag]

[spring bough]

tell me aboutt it lmao

[fathom crag]

i typed fuck lava

cus we win w mid ( SSM )

it was in my chat logs 😄

[outer sky]

I cant type what I said

[grave basin]

Blitz is where Buddhist monks go to test their resolve before they attain enlightenment

Can't imagine playing that as a main game mode

Like omnivores

[spring bough]

we went 11-10 in 3s and the first game was at 2.2k mmr lol

i just know that preso still so mad

[pliant lintel]

RBG players have always been the most toxic tho tbh

[outer sky]

Thats insane we had a positive win rate as triple rogue

[outer sky]

Like Bayter lol

[pliant lintel]

they the type of people to mass report you on 50 accounts

by themselfs

[spring bough]

literally had a shaman do this to me. "inc ban for your name" and i got kicked MID blitz mid game and had to namechange Vancleef

[pliant lintel]

LOL

[outer sky]

I think i get so fired up over blitz because I sit by far the longest queue times for it. Like the game i got banned from i sat over a 3 hour queue. And im fine with losing like thats just part of the game. But losing to completely troll, stupid bullshit after sitting a queue that long is infuriating

[spring bough]

almost lost 150 rating cause of it too

ngl blitz can be frustrating

[pliant lintel]

what makes me laugh is if you play a rogue in blitz when you lose it's always rogues fault

[spring bough]

people that do not play OBJECTIVES on OBJECTIVE games should get banned from blitz

[spring bough]

people think we can still cloak cap and do shit like solo a paladin or BM for a node

[outer sky]

Yeah theres this expectation that "a good rogue can carry the team" so if your team lost that means you couldn't carry them which means you must not be a good rogue

[pliant lintel]

tbf you can carry as rogue

[outer sky]

Yeah to an extent

[pliant lintel]

some people too heavy tho

[outer sky]

Not when my team is 6v1 vs a warlock all game

[pliant lintel]

ye

kek

[spring bough]

my favorite is when i do something like go LH, there is a ret there, the enemy healer PEELS to LH and my team still loses WW

like how do u lose with a number and healer advantage

i dont understand

[outer sky]

Or like when I ping that my base is getting hit and nobody comes

And l lose it

And get flamed

But I got hit by boomie/hunter

I cant spin that forever

What amazes me is sometimes I actually do manage to spin 1v3 for a really long time and my team somehow doesnt cap anything extra

Like im tying up 3 people on their team

And im the only one on our team tied up

So we should have a numbers advantage on the rest of the map

But we still dont get anything

[pliant lintel]

yea blitz is shite tbh

blitz is for people that can't achieve elite in solo shuffle

no flame

[outer sky]

I mean you're right

[pliant lintel]

i wish AT was a thing

those were the days

[spring bough]

i love outlaw for blitz cause its fast

but sin >>> cause of healer silences

just destroyed a whole team on the crystal cart map

[outer sky]

Mines and deephaul are the 2 best maps for assa because the objective forces the enemy team to stack for you inside the carts

[spring bough]

dropped both the enemy healers so fast

just back to back to back silences and stuns lol

8-0 and 1700 on blitz as sin

[outer sky]

Have you not played assa before?

[spring bough]

first season since shadowlands

[outer sky]

Its a lot easier than the pirate gameplay isnt it

[spring bough]

maybe lmao

[gleaming sentinel]

Sin is just miles better in solo Q man

[outer sky]

Yeah its easily the best solo queue rogue spec

[tight hill]

i'm kinda sad, feels like the last outlaws are falling

[gleaming sentinel]

It’s just fun to play the game and not wanna jump off a bridge

Outlaw I do so much work in shuffle only to 3-3 becuase I can’t close a game out on my own

Vs I can just

[pliant lintel]

same with sub

[gleaming sentinel]

As sin and win

[outer sky]

Sub is even worse than outlaw for solo queue i think

[gleaming sentinel]

My main rogue always pirate. But 9/100 wins on assa and I’ll be back

[pliant lintel]

the problem with sub is WA and stun DR's

outlaw just doesnt do dam

[outer sky]

Yeah if your team plays well sub can be really good but how often does that happen in solo

[gleaming sentinel]

I can’t get out of the 2.1-2.2 hell Elo to find out

[tight hill]

i wonder if sub would feel much nicer in shuffle with blades on 1m cd

[spring bough]

i still play outlaw but like one game here n there already got elite w it for the season so im coasting till midnight

[hidden moth]

Gotta be 3k + bgb mmr for it to happen lol

[hidden moth]

Feel like it would be broken at that point

Also @outer sky I was wrong earlier

Cold blood making your envenom match your last coin doesn’t set it to the one you got the highest streak on

If u use kb and get 2x edge case (head and tail x2)

Then do cold blood envenoms

Both envenoms coins will also be edge case coins

At that point u have a guarantee lucky 7 and are at 6/7 on the other side to also get another lucky coin XD

[outer sky]

[hidden moth]

Just pray you win that 50/50 coin flip

[spring bough]

go downstairs hit the bathroom fill my water annnnnnnddddd both ques popped

[pliant lintel]

always the way

now you sit a 45 min queue

[turbid ore]

12 hours later

it is done

i brute forced my way to 1800

[pliant lintel]

gz brother

[turbid ore]

i was in the 1700s for i think 4 hrs

[pliant lintel]

oh @outer sky i played some assa yesterday, was alright think i was trying to hard tho was committing vanishes when things were off stun DR etc then i'd burn all my vanishes and have nothing left 🤣

sub/outlaw brain

[outer sky]

Yeah staggering your vanishes is important you cant burn em all too fast

Make sure that you always vanish then meld then vanish

Or

Meld then vanish then vanish

Basically just dont use both your vanish charges before you meld

[spring bough]

9-0 blitz as sin

[outer sky]

Because vanish can only cooldown 1 charge at a time so you want vanish and meld cooling down

[pliant lintel]

yea i'd meld first but i was burning meld/vanishes just to reapply big bleeds without KB or DM etc so wasn't really making much pressure

trying to play assa like sub

when i could just pump

[outer sky]

You can vanish without those things but typically you only would if youre trying to spam CC people so your teammate can pump

Like if you see your boomie just incarned or something

[pliant lintel]

yea played to 2.3/2.4mmr last night not really understanding anything and pressing buttons haha

from my lack of play time i definatly prefer destiny defined though felt a lot smoother

[outer sky]

Inevitable End takes some getting used to but it is much more damage

[pliant lintel]

felt with inevitable end i was trying to squeeze too much into a kidney

[outer sky]

But destiny defined gives you a bit more control over your burst

[outer sky]

Oh, this is huge. Im going to blow your mind right now. Coming from playing sub this will seem earth shattering so get ready. Okay so as assa, someone doesnt actually NEED to be stunned for you to kill them

[gleaming sentinel]

Rofl

[pliant lintel]

huh

[outer sky]

I used to main sub rogue too and when i swapped to assa I was making the mistake holding damage until the kill target was stunned

You dont really have to

You mentioned trying to fit too much into a kidney

But you dont really need to worry about it

If kidney ends its still kinda fine

If that happens as a sub rogue youre just screwed though

[jaunty mirage]

I’ve def ended games where I just sent a dm and kingsbane go with no available stuns and they just died to damage

[static holly]

Beta starts 11.11 ❤️ 🎉

[outer sky]

Yeah same

That pretty much never happens as sub though

A lot of people when they switch grief themselves trying to play a little too much around stuns like they would as sub

[outer sky]

Beta actually starts whenever season 1 starts

[pliant lintel]

game changer haha ill give it a go again tonight

[outer sky]

You'll pick it up fast its way easier than what youre already doing

Just a bit different

[pliant lintel]

yea that's what my problem was i think just trying to outplay everybody in the lobby when i could just be doing damage

do i need big garrote's to kill or nah?

or i guess im just vanishing for master assassin

[outer sky]

No you dont

Realistically you vanish to CC

I dont think vanishing for damage alone is ever worth it unless youre CERTAIN that doing so gets you a kill

Also extra damage from garrote from stealth is nerfed in pvp

Its only 20%

Meaningful but not gamebreaking

[pliant lintel]

alright that makes sense

and when i don't have KB or DM i just kidney shiv?

[outer sky]

Yep

[pliant lintel]

roger dodger think I have assa sussed

ill log assa after 3s

oh actually i have 1 more question

is it worth crimson tempest on 1 target or just send the envenom

[spring bough]

sin rotation ez asf lol

[pliant lintel]

BRO

legit

i was making games last 2-3mins waiting for perfect setup

hahahaha

[outer sky]

I sometimes put it up on 1 target to help proc sudden demise. I dont prio it on 1 target but if I have nothing else to press, I will put it up. Dont feel like you need it to send your go though

[pliant lintel]

yea think I was also prioritising it way too high then and not pressing envenom enough

[gleaming sentinel]

id say i dont really know how to play it still and im owning

[outer sky]

Yeah so I queued my low rated rogue in 3s the other night and we won 13 games in a row. Look how long they lasted

[jaunty mirage]

You still run system shock into non disarm lobbies?

[outer sky]

Yep

Im NOT saying to do it though

Im the only one doing that

Try it if you want but its not official advice

[jaunty mirage]

I go back and forth

Sometimes it feels worth it and sometimes it doesn’t

[spring bough]

bleeds up then to the shiv, DM, KB, CB envenom combo and thats it lololol

[hidden moth]

I’ll cast it on 1 tar if they are in narnia and I got the dot active on other targets

Also why system shock

More dam?

[jaunty mirage]

Also big shoutout to the absolute creatures playing tanks in arena

[hidden moth]

Thanks I feel recognized

[jaunty mirage]

Lmao

Nothing terrible or anything but I do hope they all stub their toe kinda hard whenever they get up from their desk

[hidden moth]

Desk?

I lay on the floor

On my stomach the whole time

[turbid ore]

this is how i feel about healers who dont leave when their dps dies

like are we rlly gonna make me wait 5 mins for dampening to kill you when you an di both know you already lost

[gleaming sentinel]

maybe im just an assa rogue now...

[hidden moth]

1.3 seconds 76% hp to dead

[grim sequoia]

Whats this?

[hidden moth]

ideal windows

or ur goes

[grim sequoia]

Ahh

This is the build i want to use, to be more bursty ass rogue, but how exactly do i get the big envemons with it?

[hidden moth]

1 dont run destiny defined

u use inevitable end

[grim sequoia]

oh

ok ty

[hidden moth]

kb gives u 2x edge case

inevitable end makes ur envenom guaruntee match the last flip

so dm 2x kb 2x venom 1x venom 1x for 6x edge case coins

[grim sequoia]

how does kingsbane give 2 edge case?

nvm figured it out, its the set bonus

[fathom crag]

i actually prefer without the envenom talent

[hidden moth]

wtaf is shadow priest

[noble venture]

Cool !
My friend and I have been trying to figure out RLX with assa, my main confusion is how much I need to stun for my lock

Are you able to shine some light on that, please?

Every DR until I have 1 vanish left?

[outer sky]

It basically amounts to 10-15% more envenom damage which isnt much on the overall meters but its a good bit more damage when you're bursting. I think people would be taking it more if it was worded that way

[outer sky]

What spec is your lock playing?

[noble venture]

Destro

Up until now we've been trying to send a vanish every minute to align kingsbane with malevolence, but we're not getting much done

Sometimes I'll send another if I feel it's a good punish, etc, but it's not feeling super offensive

My concern is I'll send all my vanishes and die aha

[outer sky]

Play to aids the healer as much as possible. You can even do your go on him while your lock and healer delete the dps

[outer sky]

And thats not even a great lobby for you lol

[gleaming sentinel]

loving assa

maybe red name now

[hidden moth]

wtf

[hidden moth]

this priest rendrys lost 1st round with me disc assa arms vs ret ww disc

said "1 cc" bc i died when he was cc'd but had 0 vanish left no cloak evasion etc

had to hit him with a "1 cc" when i ran throuhg his ww hp bar the very next round when he was in a singular kidney. then a nice lil "1 cc" after i 5-1 the fuckin lobby

thought about saying "heal diff"

lmfaooo

[molten hedge]

I don’t need 10-15% when I can just 200%

Memeing

[jaunty mirage]

MM in shuffle goes brrrr

Took a 7.4m aimed shot on my lock last night on an opener one round

Cost me the 6-0

[hidden moth]

Oof

[jaunty mirage]

So annoying to fight mm on my lock purely because we’re both trying to do the same thing but only one of us has to deal with interrupts

[grim sequoia]

Do you guys hardly ever use ambush/mutilate?

[sharp sierra]

Never ambush but I have an ongoing issue with pressing mutilate too much when I’m out of everything

[jaunty mirage]

I press it if I need combo points and I can’t fok or garrote

Wouldn’t say never but just not a lot

[grim sequoia]

which one ambush or mut?

[jaunty mirage]

Mut

I mean I have ambush and mut on the same macro

[grim sequoia]

Im watching this guy play to learn, and he dooesnt even have mut on his keybinds lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw6Ybwn4OMI

[jaunty mirage]

But I’m never pressing ambush from stealth

[grim sequoia]

he has ambush, but i never see him press it

[jaunty mirage]

Yea I mean as assa if you’re playing fatebound you really never need ambush

But it also doesn’t take any time to just make a macro with both

I recently rearranged my keybinds though so I wasn’t as tempted to spam mutilate

[devout meadow]

excuse me

is there any reason why 1 weapon is more expensive than the other 4?

mace is 1225 conquest while the other weaps are 875

[potent pivot]

[potent pivot]

thats kinda dumb

[potent pivot]

it IS on his bars btw

[grim sequoia]

Mut? where

[potent pivot]

on Q

[grim sequoia]

thats shiv no

[potent pivot]

no

his shiv is s-S

look at how Q turns into Ambush when he stealths

[grim sequoia]

it just has shiv icon

[potent pivot]

and how it legit says "mutilate" on the button

[grim sequoia]

ohh

yeah i just read that lol

why shiv icon

[potent pivot]

its just a macro

some pvpers set up their bars so that they have 2 icons for every cooldown

replacing the icon of basic globals with CD icon/tooltips

so they can more easily see in their peripheral vision

[jolly sierra]

pick G for gouge

[potent pivot]

_>

[dark kernel]

time to push shuffle and be depressed again

[grave basin]

Seems like most assas are p good

Think you mean - time to push outlaw and be depressed again

[jaunty mirage]

Every now and then I’ll start queueing sub and then realize assa kinda has better burst and get sad and log my warlock

[grim sequoia]

i pushed healing priest to almost 2100, it was pretty fun

i loved the instant queues

[vocal surge]

@outer sky @spring bough about to get home to smash some 3s

[dark kernel]

i will try learning assa this season too

i have the gear

[grave basin]

We have the technology

Just gear up another rogue

[gleaming sentinel]

My main is still 2k… hasn’t Q’d since week 1. Meanwhile I have an alt rogue at 2600

Q alt be happy

[grave basin]

Diff specs ?

[gleaming sentinel]

Yea I have one rogue of each

2 outlaws

1 assa,1 sub

[spring bough]

cant tonight sorry boss

[grave basin]

Hows the sub experience

Looks miserable

Don't think I've seen more than 3 sub rogues the whole season

[potent pivot]

[grave basin]

Actually seen more outlaws

[potent pivot]

only true gigachads can carry the mantle

[vocal surge]

F

[stoic spruce]

3 too many

[grave basin]

Nahj must have 20 inch arms

[grave basin]

Hows outlaw so far on alpha

I saw someone testing it on stream and it seems the bugs from day 1 are still there

[stoic spruce]

When did you start playing outlaw

Newer outlaw players will hate it

It looks good on Alpha

Not perfect but the energy issue is like 99% solved

[wet crown]

https://fxtwitter.com/LIFELOVER511/status/1984034618702753970 jesus

LIFELOVER511 (@LIFELOVER511)

Midnight Season 1 PvP illusion "galaxy" ? Looks insane

**💬 11 🔁 4 ❤️ 139 👁️ 28.4K **

FxTwitter · Oct 30, 2025, 11:08 PM

[potent pivot]

i thought we already saw the midnight illusion

or am i thinking of the tww s3 one

that could be it actually

either that or its from a raid boss or something

hopefully its the pvp one tho

[stoic spruce]

@grave basin

[stoic spruce]

You'd never get it though

[potent pivot]

if thats the pvp illusion you can bet your ass i will

[stoic spruce]

Nah

You're like

A 1400 main for sure

It's okay big dawg

[potent pivot]

[stoic spruce]

I will say

Idt I earned a single enchant this expac

They've all been bad

And pvp this expac has been bad in general

[potent pivot]

i got s1 iirc?

don't think i ever applied it a single time though

[potent pivot]

everything's been so ass

rewards, gameplay etc

[stoic spruce]

It's a shame too because PvE I feel has been pretty solid

If you only pve this expac is probably really good for you

[potent pivot]

i did a little bit in s1, and a bit more in s2 i think?

it was ok, but its still just pve

[stoic spruce]

And rogue got minim changes which didn't help

[potent pivot]

delves were sorta cool, going through them for the first time at least

once you have lvl 11 delves on farm and good gear they are boring

[stoic spruce]

I think delves are the thing I ran the most and that was just for mog farming

I've hit no achievements on any character this season yet

I really should get geared for brawlers guild though

I imagine they're gonna tune the fights for mid-high ilvl

[grave basin]

Legion

[stoic spruce]

You'll probably like it

[grave basin]

I hope so, if not rogue rework failed 2x

[stoic spruce]

It's barebones outlaw

[grave basin]

Wouldn't consider the DF mid expansion one a rework anyway

[stoic spruce]

Revamp at best

[grave basin]

They just left it completely unfinished

[stoic spruce]

For some it was perfect

Idk

It sucked

[grave basin]

It has no vanish cdr

And no garrote silence

So wtf does it do now

[stoic spruce]

I meant gameplay

[grave basin]

Just fury warrior reskined?

Ye I mean in PvP, what's its niche now

In 12.0

[vocal surge]

Skirmisher

[stoic spruce]

Probably another sustain spec

Play with other rot specs

Since dps CDs have been culled and healing overall has been reworked

[grave basin]

Wouldn't assa work better with rot specs

[stoic spruce]

It's still a CD spec. I'm talking like outlaw/bm thug

Or whatever

[grave basin]

So is it sustain or cd

[stoic spruce]

Cd

Well in theory. Tuning passes haven't been made yet.

[grave basin]

Isn't AR still balanced around 90% uptime?

[stoic spruce]

No

[grave basin]

Really

[stoic spruce]

Ye

[grave basin]

What's the perfect pve uptime now

[stoic spruce]

I don't think we have that info yet

[vocal surge]

in Midnight?

[stoic spruce]

But we know for sure uptime has been dramatically reduced

[grave basin]

Think I saw whaaz showing it off and there's a choice node of 15% damage amp or longer duration AR

[stoic spruce]

Yeah, it's an interesting node for sure

I think the duration is a pve talent though

Since we need more up front dsmage

[grave basin]

Yea it's good to have that choice for bursty profile

Idk if verse stacking is gonna be a thing but if they're immortal in midnight theyre looking interesting

[stoic spruce]

It's not. We lost Ruthless Precision so we gotta make up for lost crit.

And then the haste tax ofc

[grave basin]

Outlaw mastery not being changed is weird

Like when else is this supposed to happen

[stoic spruce]

I think it makes sense since outlaw is sustain spec with some abilities striking twice

But it shouldn't be this bad

[grave basin]

Well they could make it thematic

And just increase its damage value

Like what they did to ww mastery

Just flat increase its value by like 30% going into 11.2

Making it a giga stacking secondary

[vocal surge]

That'd be interesting

[stoic spruce]

It should just be tuned better. It's best not to change things just for the sake of changing things because that rarely works out.

[vocal surge]

Or increase its based attack power scaling

[stoic spruce]

Lots of ways to buff it but they wont

Naturally

[vocal surge]

Since Mastery works on bandages, toilet paper, and prayers

Like it does .1% Attack power on its scaling

But it clearly hits harder than that

Even 10% mastery effectively doubles how strong Main Gauche is

[grave basin]

Yea but somehow verse is still stronger

The tuning is just off

[vocal surge]

Vers affects everything thou

[grave basin]

Like it's such a simple tuning knob

[stoic spruce]

The perk of being a pure physical spec

That attacks a lot

[vocal surge]

Whereas Mastery has to affect something that does like 3% - 4% of our damage

[spring bough]

yk what would be cool? sabre slash and bleed dot for outlaw

[vocal surge]

By the tip you hit 60% mastery its like 11%

[stoic spruce]

You just want SoD combat tank

[vocal surge]

Saber Slash is not the tank rune for rogue though

Its Main Gauche

[stoic spruce]

Let's be real, it didn't really matter

[grave basin]

Their math guys can just increase main gauche damage such that 1% mastery > 1% verse up to softcap

But they won't

[vocal surge]

There's the other thing about Main Gauche

Where it scales well with Haste

[grave basin]

Any spec that stacks verse is just DOA when everyone is fully geared

[vocal surge]

Like 50% haste makes Main Gauche machinegun

[grave basin]

Well they're trying to "force" crit to be more of a thing now

Across the board

Like arms now has so many crit modifiers

[vocal surge]

Ye

[grave basin]

Sub has haste and crit

[vocal surge]

Its good that all secondary stats matter

[grave basin]

Depends on how they do it

If it's a stat tax then no

[vocal surge]

Otherwise we end up with what Outlaw is rn which is stacking mechanical hardcaps like in Remix

Then dumping Mastery

[grave basin]

Isn't outlaw the worst PI target in the game

[vocal surge]

Yes

[potent pivot]

not quite(?)

[grave basin]

Who's worse

[potent pivot]

well sub was worse iirc

[stoic spruce]

It's one of them but not the worst

[potent pivot]

now that they changed it idk

[vocal surge]

Absolute worse is Brewmaster

[grave basin]

[vocal surge]

But no one PIs tanks

[grave basin]

Guys pop lust my damage is gonna soar

Jk

I'm a rogue spec

[vocal surge]

Lol

[potent pivot]

i'm surprised its as bad for fury/havoc as it is

[vocal surge]

Yeee

[grave basin]

Hopefully it changes (it won't)

Sub probably won't even play the haste stacking talents if I'm seeing correctly @potent pivot

Since it desyncs your CDs

True?

[vocal surge]

Outlaws gonna be crit stacking in Midnight

With some haste

[stoic spruce]

This was changed I'm pretty sure

[potent pivot]

i highly doubt we won't use them

highly highly doubt

either they will just fix the desync

or we will just deal with it

if there's no CDR from spending combo points, we have no choice

[grave basin]

You'd have to play around certain breakpoints which is gonna be ass though

Just .. don't spec it

[potent pivot]

i mean thats just the reality now

[grave basin]

Now as in 11.2 or now as in midnight

[potent pivot]

i hate it more than anyone trust me lmao

midnight

but even right now its probably good to run some haste for dance duration

[vocal surge]

Watch Turbo change from War / EnhSham to Outlaw / EnhSham lol

[grave basin]

War looking cracked though

Arms is getting amazing changes

[vocal surge]

Yeee

[potent pivot]

i'm surprised to see no one has tried running some haste with the change

[grave basin]

Like actually good ones

[vocal surge]

Heroic Strike casually doing 1/3 someone's HP

[grave basin]

Even from a talent tree perspective

They were whining about the last gate before the capstones being 2 pointers

They changed it to 1 pointers this build

In the general class tree

So now they have freedom to pick diff utility nodes

[vocal surge]

That's so dumb and op

[grave basin]

Meanwhile our class tree

Are just lines going down

[vocal surge]

Its not ret lvls

Where they have LoH 1min CD

[grave basin]

Doesn't have to be Ret lvl

[vocal surge]

But still really dumb and OP

[grave basin]

Shaman class tree from like first draft of DF alpha

[vocal surge]

Considering Warriors smack hard af

[grave basin]

Was alrdy really good

In terms of pathing

And picking up all your utility

You can path horizontally almost everywhere

And that was built like 4 years? ago

I mean look at how many times the hunter class tree completely changed

Not even just a small node change here or there

I mean completely redone

[stoic spruce]

There is no desync

[grave basin]

Interesting

[potent pivot]

?...

we were talking about the things coming in midnight

[stoic spruce]

Yeah

[potent pivot]

not the change that went live already

unless they already changed something on the alpha, i'm pretty positive there was a desync issue with the new haste CDR talents

like from Blades or sec tech, idr

[stoic spruce]

This was in phase 4

[stoic spruce]

Does one of them get cdr?

[potent pivot]

is dance not getting hasted cdr?

now its just symbols? lmao

[stoic spruce]

No

[stoic spruce]

That's what it looks like lol

[potent pivot]

thats still dumb

[potent pivot]

no

sec tech has always had cdr based on combo points, like dance

now idk wtf they are thinking

first it was hasted cdr dance+symbols, now its hasted duration dance+cdr symbols

[grave basin]

I'm so lost

[stoic spruce]

Sec tech has hasted CD

[potent pivot]

idk if they even know what they're thinking

[stoic spruce]

By default

[grave basin]

??

[stoic spruce]

Bro found the plot

[grave basin]

Wha

[stoic spruce]

Yeah hasted sec tech cdr is baseline

[grave basin]

They can't just put everything under the same system ?

It has to be this convoluted mess

[stoic spruce]

Sec tech has hasted cdr baseline in its ability, symbols gets its cdr from a seperate haste talent, dance duration is increased by haste

[potent pivot]

yeah it all just sounds horrid

[grave basin]

Wtf am I reading

[grave basin]

And none of this is supposed to desync ?

[grave basin]

??

[stoic spruce]

I said that not knowing how bad they made it

It's so over for sub

I thought I did but I didnt

My guess is that they did this to make it easier to tune? Idk

I've no idea how to justify it

[grave basin]

How tf is that easier

[potent pivot]

they probably changed the Dance talent to fix the desync

[grave basin]

But that's probably assuming you alrdy have a certain haste amount

[potent pivot]

but regardless they're just trying to make haste valuable for sub

[grave basin]

If you're over x% haste you desync

And if you are below you still desync

[potent pivot]

they should just make all CDs effected by haste, including Blades

then just tune the damage from there

that way nothing desyncs

[grave basin]

Imagine testing the spec you develop

Can't be blizzard

[grave basin]

Too hard sorry

[stoic spruce]

I can't believe we got told "if your spec isnt performing well, just play the better spec" by blizzard

[grave basin]

I mean they aren't consistent with that philosophy

If you're a one DPS spec your one DPS spec has to be good

Meanwhile ww??

We just don't exist??

Target caps hello?

[stoic spruce]

This was in the context of 3 dps specs

That's a whole different thing

[grave basin]

Yea but they specifically said Ret had to be good

Cause rets can't respec

Ok then in PvP on what planet is ww even close to Ret or even sp

[stoic spruce]

Ret is blizzards star child so that's expected they bring up ret

[stoic spruce]

When was the last time pvp had tuning in general

[grave basin]

They brought up Ret as an example of a hybrid with only one DPS spec

And like poor babies they can't just respec if Ret is bad

Uwu give them every healer cd known to man

[stoic spruce]

Give them more actually

Spellwarding

Why doesn't my hpal pocket healer have that

[vocal surge]

Holy Ritual healing for 2000% spell power now

Eye for An Eye rn does 35% spell power

[stoic spruce]

They have GOT to nerf rets damage in bubble

It's so fucking stupid

[grave basin]

Why? Hunters can't attack in turtle and mages can't attack in block

Why are they even allowed to do damage in bubble

Like at all

[stoic spruce]

Because rets supposed niche is to keep their teammates alive but in reality it's to be S tier all the time.

Frankly I just don't think anything about ret redeems it

[outer sky]

@vocal surge fuck i fell asleep lol I was groggy and drained all day. That always happens to me the day after I get drunk

[vocal surge]

Aye

[outer sky]

Now its 2am and I just slept for like 6 hours

So fuck me I guess

[outer sky]

i just lost a game on my evoker because my healer tried to trinket my time stop

holy fuck

[vocal surge]

F

11 days till Midnight Beta

[pliant lintel]

can't wait to play an even worse version of sub rogue

[orchid plinth]

haste, very cool 🧢

[tight hill]

will the beta have arena?

[pliant lintel]

tbf as long as they tune numbers alright i don't think it will be as bad as everybody is making it out to be theres a lot of QOL changes also

[outer sky]

yes

[tight hill]

nice, i really want to see how the DR/stun changes play out

[keen canopy]

im not gonna play it but im sure i'll hear all about it in this channel

[outer sky]

Lol devoker is so much fun

With this big deep breath build

And divide and conquer

Every 45s you deep breath and get like 50 cooldowns

@pliant lintel how'd the assa games go yesterday?

[pliant lintel]

yo man, yea alright tbf i played like 4 games only think i worked assa out now

had a lobby of win trading and 1 lobby where people were dying in 1 min with CD's

but that's shuffle

[vocal surge]

lost the roll

rip

[outer sky]

Yeah everyone deals with that shit in shuffle is what it is

[pliant lintel]

assa feels like cheating though

haha

[vocal surge]

I know what imma use my chips on

Gonna do M+ gloves, those boots from Mythic difficulty

and maybe a trinket

actually nvm

the dagger from Floodgate

That should eliminate effectively all the RNG

[spring bough]

Bro I was in here at like 11pm and u were chatting have u gone to bed wtf lol

[vocal surge]

Lol

Yes

its almost my bed time too

[outer sky]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/live-tuning-being-delayed-by-tournaments-has-got-to-stop/2192928

Support the cause

[spring bough]

Did u write that post

[outer sky]

Yes

[pliant lintel]

i don't think we'll see any tuning now

think their done with tww

[outer sky]

I think we'll see 1 more round of changes. Voidweaver basically demands it

[spring bough]

This

[noble venture]

https://tenor.com/view/fluttershy-mlp-mlp-fim-fawn-friday-gif-3772864839929529294

Just wanted to wish everyone here a happy Fluttershy Friday

[pliant lintel]

maybe they normally tune today right?

fridays i mean

[outer sky]

Its Halloween and also my father's 92nd birthday

[outer sky]

Yeah

[spring bough]

https://x.com/lifelover511/status/1984034618702753970?s=46&t=YKaisWqFkCTf8y-DfuEaHw

LIFELOVER511 (@LIFELOVER511)

Midnight Season 1 PvP illusion "galaxy" ? Looks insane

X · Oct 30, 2025, 11:08 PM

Chat is this real? That illusion is fucking dope

[pliant lintel]

if we get tuning it will be either today then or in 3 weeks

[noble venture]

Cool : )

Happy Hallobirthdayween to your father

I will of course observe my religious holiday, Fluttershy Friday

[outer sky]

Yeah

[pliant lintel]

on the positive note of voidweaver at least shuffles queues are quicker haha

[gleaming sentinel]

4 captures, trying to fight for my outlaw rights

[outer sky]

Yeah thats actually something ive been thinking about. But obviously we cant have any 1 healing spec be this dominant. However it does make me think maybe buffing the others would be a better solution since voidweaver being broken has done a ton of good for queue times

[gleaming sentinel]

yea ngl i dont want them to nerf vw

rogue is good with it and against it

and qs are fast beccause its a fun healer to play

[outer sky]

Yeah they need to make other healers that fun to play

Instead of nerfing it to be unfun like the others

[pliant lintel]

think they just need to tone trinity down a little and it would help put them back in line

resto druid needs buffs but idk how you'd fix it

playing with hpal is sketchy always sat a 50% hp haha

[outer sky]

One glaring problem with this game IMO is that theres a few specs where the game is just way more fun if theyre bad. Resto druid is one of those specs. Them being good makes the meta agonizing. Every game is an 8 minute damp fest where youre playing for mana.

[gleaming sentinel]

my fav spec is like that :<

long live outlaw

[vocal surge]

Fight Voidweavers as Double Rogue 🙂

[molten hedge]

Trueeeee. My friend was playing Hunter and died thru wall with full hots and bark ln lmaooo. It’s so bad

[outer sky]

I killed Rennar through iron bark (not bark skin), while he was in tree form free casting

[jaunty mirage]

Tbh I think it’s placebo, I think it helped in the beginning but I know a ton of healers who have just stopped queueing because of vw disc

They can buff other heal specs but vw still needs a nerf

[vocal surge]

^

Voidweavers are imo too OP xD

Me n VanCleef got our ankles broken by VWs in 2s

[jaunty mirage]

I actually love the suggestion I saw of leaving their damage as-is but making them oom super fast

[vocal surge]

because they hit so hard

[outer sky]

Im also a little biased ngl because disc priest is probably the best healer to be meta from a rogue mains perspective

[vocal surge]

Even in 1v2 where its us vs them

we have to line up a 1 shot to kill em

[spring bough]

Hey we killed the one even though he got us to like 20% at the same time lol

[vocal surge]

That's the one I'm talking about

Literally had to line up a 1 shot to kill him

[spring bough]

Yeah void disc needs a huge nerf to the point it’s not playable in arena cause it’s bullshit

[outer sky]

Well idk if double rogue 2s is the best context to be balancing the game around

[gleaming sentinel]

yea im rolling my eyes hard rn

ngl

lol

[spring bough]

Even without double rogue void disc a problem lol

[jaunty mirage]

I’m fine with it being good, it just doesn’t need to be THIS good

[vocal surge]

^

[jaunty mirage]

It’s just way too much damage with zero downside

[outer sky]

Yeah sure but ill also take it ya know. Does it need a nerf? Probably. But am I upset that every game i play is both with the healer I do the best with and against the healer I do the best into? Nah not really lol

[jaunty mirage]

Like I said, I love the idea of leaving their damage damage alone and just making them oom crazy fast

[gleaming sentinel]

exactly

my highest shuffle cr as a rogue ever, and its just vw lobbies

go off kings, lemme stun this for u

[pliant lintel]

just played worst lobby of my life, boomie, SP, aff lock, VW, resto sham

[gleaming sentinel]

as sub?

[pliant lintel]

i stood in a pillar all game because nobody wants to push in

nahh assa haha

[gleaming sentinel]

seems like a sick sin lobby no?

[pliant lintel]

no lol

[vocal surge]

The issue is VWs are crazy mana efficient

[outer sky]

Thats not a bad lobby for assa tbh the only thing thats kind of annoying is the spriest

[vocal surge]

If you nerf mana on priest, Archon takes a giga nerf

[pliant lintel]

didn't help was on tol viron

[outer sky]

Oh god I hate that map

[pliant lintel]

everbody standing 40yard

[gleaming sentinel]

yea thats tough

gimme cage of carnage everygame plz

and i'll be 2800

[pliant lintel]

yea that would be ez

just the fact was triple caster on tol viron haha

had a 4 min game

[gleaming sentinel]

yea thats no fun

[outer sky]

If it were me I would play to kill the boomie in a smoke bomb every game vs him

And vs the shaman id aim to kill him after trinket

I would sap him, blind him out of it, kidney him, and garrote spam him to make him trinket

Them pillar hump to save cloak

Save a step for thunderstorm

[pliant lintel]

yea agreed but when everybody standing 40yard doing pve 0 cc

[outer sky]

Then kidney him

[pliant lintel]

haha

[outer sky]

And cloak to not get peeled

And just one shot hum

Him*

[spring bough]

No caster ever wants to push on offense bro it’s the most annoying shit to deal with in solo shuffle

[outer sky]

The bigger issue is when your healer won't push

Thats what loses games

[gleaming sentinel]

i swear rogues biggest problem is 90% of people dont know how to play with a rogue

[pliant lintel]

healer standing 40yard so i can't push in

[spring bough]

Or hugs a pillar like a momo and LOS themself from u when u been in the same spot all game

[pliant lintel]

literally stuck on pillar mid map losing

[spring bough]

And then blames you for LOS when it was their fault

[pliant lintel]

wanted to quit r3

[outer sky]

Its just so aids like

You want to kill a lock

Or a hunter

Or whatever

And every time they feel any pressure

They just port

Or disengage back

And you cant chase because you'll range your healer

So they basically can never die

[pliant lintel]

that's also another problem with voidweaver

add it to the list

they want to play max range and blast 24/7

[outer sky]

Yes but on the flip side of that, theyre much less reliant on LoS to heal you. Even if youre not in their line, as long as you have atonement on you you'll get healed by them. Thats actually a secretly broken aspect of disc priest that nobody talks about

[pliant lintel]

Yea

But never pushing for CC is cringe

[outer sky]

Yeah it is

[pliant lintel]

Idk that lobby just tilted me

[outer sky]

Did you 0-6?

[pliant lintel]

nahh 2-4

4 minute games in solo shuffle

[jaunty mirage]

Ahh it was a boomy 6-0

[outer sky]

Oh yeah

The boomie just owned the lobby

[jaunty mirage]

A boomy that knows their shit will absolutely wreck a lobby and you can’t do a whole lot about it

Boomy can go with so many classes

You just have to pray one of the other dps fucks up

[outer sky]

Yeah @pliant lintel think of it this way. As aids as it is to fight triple caster on TV arena, you did as well as 2/3 of those casters

[jaunty mirage]

Yeah lol

[pliant lintel]

shammy told me to go watch a guide

hahahaha

[jaunty mirage]

lol

[outer sky]

What rating are you? Just curious. Probably pretty low since you just started playing assa

[pliant lintel]

that was 2.3mmr

so ye low

[outer sky]

Yeah so the healers may not have been very good either

[pliant lintel]

ye healers were defo the problem and boomy just taking advantage

[outer sky]

Priest healer meta is also really good for boomies

Because most priests play undead

And a non-gnome priest is the only healer that cant get out of root beam

[jaunty mirage]

To be clear to the new people coming in here looking for tips: 2.3 is low for them, it’s not low lol

Lotta people gonna be in here thinking they suck for scraping to 1900 for the first time lmao

[outer sky]

Yeah I mean low relative to the top of the ladder not relative to what rating most people are

Good catch

[jaunty mirage]

Haha

[gleaming sentinel]

i swear 2100-2300 is harder than 2400+

[pliant lintel]

i some what agree with that

[gleaming sentinel]

healer quality alone

[jaunty mirage]

I just know from personal experience talking about this shit with friends and one of them was new and we kinda made him feel a bit bad

[pliant lintel]

it's mostly just healers at that mmr

[jaunty mirage]

Agree on 2100-2300

[gleaming sentinel]

wow pvpers are notorious for moving the goalposts for whats respectable pvp rating

[jaunty mirage]

That range is a slog for sure

Yeah true

[gleaming sentinel]

be proud of yourself no matter what, but always try to improve

[jaunty mirage]

Correct

[pliant lintel]

1800 is top 30%

so if you're around that you're doiung great

[outer sky]

Yeah Ive said this before. Players at 2.1-2.3 are good enough that you cant carry your team into them but also not so good that they won't completely grief you

[jaunty mirage]

Like half my games in that range were 3-3

[gleaming sentinel]

yea totally

[jaunty mirage]

Cause there’s so often a healer going 6-0

[gleaming sentinel]

healers just dont trade that efficiently yet and dont dispel the right stuff is my experience

[jaunty mirage]

Felt like every 4-5 lobbies before 2400 there’d be a healer dead set on going 0-6

[outer sky]

They dispel the fear on the hunter even though his trueshot is over and youre just sitting a full HoJ during subterfuge

[gleaming sentinel]

or your bomb gets fucking searing glared

and they do nothing

[outer sky]

I just threw up a little

[gleaming sentinel]

the most op cc in the gmae nxt to cyclone

[jaunty mirage]

Losing a round where two people on the other team are at 10% with no defensives left cause I sit like 7 seconds of polymorph

[gleaming sentinel]

28min into a 6min av g

guess i go lift instead

[outer sky]

There was a game I played recently where I kingsbaned, dudes at 10%, I get feared, and my healer starts casting ult penn instead of dispelling me. Like bro just give me 1 global to envenom and we win like come on

[jaunty mirage]

Managed to escape a sub rogue lobby 4-2 last night on my second rogue cause both druids kept cloning people on the sub rogues cds lmao

I was triggered for him

[outer sky]

I swear they think its funny

Like when I kidney someone and they get cloned, so I vanish, step cheap shot someone else and then the druid swaps the clone to them

[jaunty mirage]

He whispered me afterwards that he hates going against other rogues that know the game

Soon as he was on the other team I told the healers I’m just gonna hold my trinket forever

[outer sky]

Yeah you can only trinket smoke bomb

[jaunty mirage]

Yeah

[outer sky]

Actually one mistake I make is that I almost never trinket offensively. Like unless im 100% sure I can kill, I dont trinket offensively

Ever

Ill sit my entire 12s garrote window In CC

[jaunty mirage]

Feel like that’s fine approach in shuffle

[outer sky]

And never trinket

[jaunty mirage]

Shuffle is so chaotic

Trinketing offensively has such a high likelihood of not working out

[outer sky]

Its actually not even because im afraid of dying

Thats part of it sure

But the big reason is I dont want to get CCd on whatever set up I think will win the game

So ill just save trinket until I either need it to live or need it to win in the next 5 seconds

[jaunty mirage]

We won a round vs that sub rogue cause he trinketed to try for a kill on me and I had the better druid and he just cloned the rogue 3x and we won

[pliant lintel]

Ngl as a sub main playing with another rogue is aids

[jaunty mirage]

Worse for the other rogues lol

[outer sky]

I try really hard not to stun anything if theres a sub rogue on my team

[jaunty mirage]

I think a good sub rogue is my least favorite thing to see

Nightmare matchup for assa if they are good

[outer sky]

Yeah but if they trinket they can die in a stun so easily

[pliant lintel]

Yea playing into Assa as sub is alright but playing with Assa is hard haha

2 very different play styles

[jaunty mirage]

Yeah

[outer sky]

I played a lobby last night with Mes in it

On his dk

He was playing frost

[jaunty mirage]

He does so much damage

[outer sky]

And he IBFd my first stun

[pliant lintel]

Rip

[outer sky]

Then trinketed my disarm

And It was lights out

[pliant lintel]

Probably because his Weakauras told him to

[outer sky]

He said on stream he knew that would happen and didn't know why he did that

[pliant lintel]

Seem to be a lot of FDK recently

On EU there is anyway

[outer sky]

Their burst is unreal

But also

Theyre only as good as their go

[jaunty mirage]

Yea fdk burst if they know how to play is wild

[outer sky]

So if you spam CC them

They pretty much have to trinket and ibf offensively

Or they cant do anything

[jaunty mirage]

IMO a good fdk burst is scarier than almost anything atm

[outer sky]

Oh 100%

[jaunty mirage]

Esp because like, I have tools to deal with it