pvp

[abstract stratus]

bad luck with the people you lost to those 2 round

[outer sky]

4.1m Envenom with a 500k System Shock LOL

[stiff cedar]

i feel like mentioning the 500k system shock but not the 1.5m coin is kinda burrying the lead there LOL

[abstract stratus]

ngl system shock has always seemed like a garbage talent compared to the others

[outer sky]

I like it with this Fatebound Enevnom build we're playing now

its basically 10-15% more envenom damage

i think if it was worded that way more people would be playing it

[dark kernel]

What's the changes

[outer sky]

what do you mean?

[dark kernel]

You said it's a different build

Talents

[outer sky]

Inevitable End

the build is all about gassed envenoms

[dark kernel]

Aight

I need to learn to play sin. Sometimes it feels strong sometimes it feels like it does nothing.

[wanton breach]

should've just pre-popped a defensive
MM hunter is totally fine

[wanton breach]

i forgor system shock existed since i'ts so garbage for such a long time

[outer sky]

im the only rogue playing it

but i think its good

i take it when I dont need disarm

[wanton breach]

a pvp talent for a conditional 250k damage is very meh in my book

[outer sky]

it hits up to 500k

and its not about the raw damage

its about when it happens

its like an extra 600k-1m damage during your burst

[wanton breach]

i'll give it a shot once I play my rogue the next time in pvp

[lavish idol]

Can someone explain what pvp gearing now is like, I have mostly 730 mythic gear. Is there any point to use pvp gear? Other than the vers weighting the gear has

The PvP item lvl seems lower compared to what it was earlier seasons, or am I dreaming?

[lavish idol]

and whilst I am asking, are the raid boots not effective in pvp¿

[outer sky]

Also the "condition" should really always be met. There's really no world where you should be sending your burst on a target that doesnt meet the system shock condition

[lone jasper]

love people like this :)) its all because i won ss

[outer sky]

Oh I can beat that lmfao

[lone jasper]

Omg, these people with big problems 🤣

[outer sky]

Like people need to calm down i swear. Its a fucking video game like relax

Guy wants to murder my family over it

[gleaming sentinel]

Good grief

[outer sky]

I very rarely whisper people and when I do its ALWAYS someone on my own team if they troll me. And always in shuffle or blitz. And the only reason I ever even do that is because sitting hour plus long queues just for 1 guy to throw the game in the most comical way possible is really really frustrating. But when I do its usually something like "how are you at this rating?" Or "Bro just log off youre griefing everyone else here". Id NEVER actually wish IRL bodily harm on somebody over anything they did in the game like good lord man thats so cringe and over the top holy fuck

The whole concept of rage whispering somebody on the other team is the weirdest thing ever like obviously theyre going to play the game to win so its weird to get mad about that. The only way I could ever see that not being extremely cringe is if the way they beat you is by legitimately cheating like DK gripping your healer below the map to spam DC them and even then I wouldn't ever say anything like telling someone to kill themselves or anything. Idk I just dont get it

[dark kernel]

Anytime you get too high rating it gets unhinged

[gleaming sentinel]

It’s all a lot of people have going for them.

[dark kernel]

In season3 tbc like 17 years ago someone mailed me a threat because my 3s team beat them

[outer sky]

Idk man. Very high rated players are definitely very competitive and take the game somewhat personally but when I see shit like what's in that screenshot I posted its almost always from someone in the rival to duelist bracket

[dark kernel]

Yeah but how many petkico DMs so you have

[outer sky]

That guy is a known exception

Same with Crusader

[dark kernel]

And magnusz

[outer sky]

Im not saying it doesnt happen with very high rated players. But I think its definitely more of a problem in the mid tier brackets

And I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that a lot of players in that bracket think they're better than they really are

And also at the very high level, you need people to want to play with you who are also at that level because theres just fewer of them

And nobody wants to play with you if youre super toxic

Thats why crusader has to lfg his glad wins

Hes really good at the game but nobody who knows him wants to play with him

[pliant lintel]

ya you don't really get it on high rating

most people understand the game and know when mistakes have been made or if they have lost before it's already happened

[outer sky]

Exactly

[jolly sierra]

i am saving this, 100% will get mod deleted lol

[lavish idol]

Does outlaw have a haste cap like in pve?

[pliant lintel]

19.5%

[sharp sierra]

Only fun part about outlaw in remix is being able to keep up with the tanks running through lmao

[spring bough]

@outer sky one lobby away from duelist sin... bleed damage goes crazy lool

[spring bough]

justt had a blitz where i went ruins to shrine and back n forth all game uninterrupted capping both bases lol

0 damage 7 base caps lol

[wanton breach]

LOK

[grave basin]

absolute cinema

set up the campfire and just chill

guys... i feel.. the light beckoning

[molten hedge]

Bro LUL wow

[molten hedge]

42x R1

[dark moon]

hahahahahah

thats so sweet

i'd like to ask a question

since he attacked me and decided to use the aj kahet immunity buff and still died

is this enough flags or do i need to put some more ?

as to this... i find it very satisfying when a mages cry, dont know why, but it makes my day

[jaunty mirage]

Lmao

Sensational gameplay

[dark moon]

i dont have the ret paladin down the stairs emote, but if had one, this is where i'd use it 😄

[jaunty mirage]

Hope you stub your toe

[tight hill]

shuffle warriors to the kill target on opener

[snow anvil]

how do i manage energy in solo shuffle as assa

i keep running dry and doing no damage

and getting yelled at

[dark moon]

i played couple of shuffles yesterday (2.3k mmr) and all of the warriors I played with did the same opener - bolt into disarm into fear into shockwave

[dark moon]

deathstalker or fatebound?

[snow anvil]

deathstalker

but im open to changeing lol

im hardstuck 1700

[dark moon]

bleed everyone and their mothers

[snow anvil]

rogue is way harder than pally, hunter, mage

[dark moon]

garrote rupture crimson, spam fok and spread all the cancer

[snow anvil]

yeah i gotta press crimson more

good call

[dark moon]

the only weakness (if i may say so myself) is if targets are spread out, but if they are stacked you should be eating good

[snow anvil]

yeah i struggle if they spread

for sure

i have no way to clear slows except cloak right?

[dark moon]

u can use gap closers

we discussed friendly step to the healers to avoid damage/restealth couple of days ago in this chat

[snow anvil]

friendly step?????

you can shadowstep friendlies?!?!!?!

[potent pivot]

[snow anvil]

thats busted

that woulda saved my life like 500 times if i knew taht

[pliant lintel]

Less mutilate more fan & poisoned knife ✅

[spring bough]

That’s what midnight sounds like

More envenoms

[snow anvil]

i topped damage ina round first time ever

thanks for thje advice lol

[spring bough]

sin goes BRRRRTTTTTTTTTTTTT

[snow anvil]

turns out aoe shit is good

what is sin?

[frozen shore]

assassin

[snow anvil]

oh

yeah

thats me

yeah 2 minutes of reading in here and palyed my best match ever as this class

turns out talking to people who know what they are doing is pretty good

thanks bros

[pliant lintel]

https://youtu.be/Z48eTXm7HCM?si=We7M3VwTpFw3ABcJ

Watch that

[snow anvil]

that better not be longer than a youtube short

i have full brain rot

[dark moon]

its long

and its mainly fatebound assa

but still good guide

[snow anvil]

im still on fundamentals so anything is good tbh lol

fatebound with the burst potential might be more my speed tbh

since im used to hunter

this video is the shit i needed

the soothing french accent is really working too

[pliant lintel]

@fathom crag bro wants you to whisper in his ear

[true warren]

if the next best thing to upgrade is 727 pve gear, should i replace my honor trinkets first?

[pliant lintel]

Yes

[true warren]

ok thanks

[spring bough]

yall sin rogue playing cheat death?

feel like it has helped win me games lol

[pliant lintel]

Suppose you could take it into some BS comp with a MM hunter if you were scared of getting 1 shot

[verbal field]

ty for that, good guide

[spring bough]

8mil kingsbane before this

[sharp bough]

hey guys

how does precise cuts works on pvp? olaw-

[potent pivot]

The same as pve

[sharp bough]

can u explain plz

[potent pivot]

It does what it says it does idk

Increases damage for every target missing

[sharp bough]

in 2v2/3v3

[potent pivot]

No one runs it

[sharp bough]

Me yes for the memes

[potent pivot]

[sharp bough]

so +30% dmg?

[potent pivot]

Naw

Idr if it even works in ST

If it even does, it would be 20% not 30%

BF’s base max is 5 targets

Iirc they don’t run it in pve on ST

[sharp bough]

cap with dancing steel is 7 right

2v2 +30% and 3v3 20%?

[potent pivot]

Don’t think it interacts that way

@open thunder

[sharp bough]

[potent pivot]

All I know for sure is that it isn’t worth running in a typical build

[sharp bough]

for solo memes

[pliant lintel]

20%/30% of nothing is still nothing

[sharp bough]

so it is 70/80% extra AoE?

cleave*

[potent pivot]

Do what

[sharp bough]

bf dmg

from 50 to 70 80

with precise cuts

[potent pivot]

Only 70

Well no

65

[sharp bough]

[potent pivot]

You gotta be hitting something with the cleave damage

[sharp bough]

ye

[potent pivot]

If you’re hitting 2 targets

That’s +15%

To your BF damage on the secondary target

[sharp bough]

yep

and with dancing steel

it is 30% right

[potent pivot]

I don’t think so

[sharp bough]

[potent pivot]

Not 100% sure

But idts

[sharp bough]

one more question it also applies to KS cleave dmg ?

so cb into KS + pc + ds claps

[pliant lintel]

until you get piss micro cc

[sharp bough]

[potent pivot]

Only BF cleave damage

[sharp bough]

but it works

or na

[sharp bough]

ye

[potent pivot]

If it cleaves through BF, that damage is increased

[spring bough]

am i doing sin rogue right yet?

[open thunder]

bf doesnt do damage to your main target

[spring bough]

@outer sky 2156 as sin on shuffle. ez pz

time to go higher

[potent pivot]

Ye main question was if PC interacts with DS

[open thunder]

ye it does

otherwise it would be kinda shit

[hidden moth]

whats the macro to make me focus a named npc

like /target npc

but focus

/focus [Nexus-King Salhadaar]

this is what i have but its focusing my target

[potent pivot]

Word

[potent pivot]

Ye

[sharp bough]

so if i go cb into ks with ds + ds + gs+ fc tails buff and my ks does like 20m dmg everyone else gets hit for 14m-16m

am i cookin

[spring bough]

@outer sky back to back 5-1's 2211 cruising to elite XD

[vocal surge]

We win a game

using Magic broom

Magic Broom go brrrr

[spring bough]

@outer sky 3milly coin

[outer sky]

thats awesome lol

my record is 3.6m

[spring bough]

17 seconds to kill both of them

[outer sky]

what rating is this

[spring bough]

1900 rogue 2s

[outer sky]

ah

[spring bough]

outlaw/sin

lol

we just attacking tf outta healers with this silence

so OP

sudden demise procs go crazy for wins

[outer sky]

its a lot easier than outlaw isnt it

[spring bough]

maybe lmao

silence carrying me for life

[vocal surge]

and proper kicking

[outer sky]

if they ever get rid of that or give something similar to another spec, assa would basically disappear from the game for all practical purposes

[spring bough]

silence is OP

[vocal surge]

Its so brutal btw

once that Silence is gone

we cannot miss a kick

or its GG

literally our win con is playing perfect

as double rogue lol

[spring bough]

how do u stagger garrote silence

do u line it up with kicks and stuns at the end of the silences

[outer sky]

i try and stun first since i can silencer for longer than i can stun

[spring bough]

sounds good lol

[vocal surge]

Beating Rogue-Mage as Rogue-Rogue

[spring bough]

two more sudden demise KBs

on healer dps combo lol

[vocal surge]

Rival II as Double Rogue

[outer sky]

i'd like to 2v2 you guys lol

[spring bough]

no ty

[vocal surge]

Rogue Mage vs Rogue Rogue?

[outer sky]

nah rogue disc vs rogue rogue

[spring bough]

casual 4 mil tick on kingsbane

first hit* lol

with 3mil of coins GG

[outer sky]

lol yeah thats the best

i always hit the hardest on evokers

[spring bough]

sudden demise gets me a KB on a rogue when im dead

love to see it

[outer sky]

are either of you streaming?

[spring bough]

nah lol

[vocal surge]

I can stream in Two-Person-1

@outer sky

[outer sky]

its been a while since i've seen a pally dumb enough to kill himself with sac

[vocal surge]

Ooof lol

[spring bough]

im just collecting sudden demise KBs

[vocal surge]

Outplaying people with Magic Brooms

in Rival elo

[wet crown]

lads

do I pvp gear my hunter or my lock next for just blowing up masses of people lol

[wet crown]

wow, I forgot they could do that.

[jaunty mirage]

Would still depend wildly on tuning cause like sub with garrote would still do pretty non-threatening damage currently

[glass hazel]

lol wp

[wet crown]

paladin lost nothing, meanwhile lol

[vocal surge]

vs RM as RR

[broken otter]

That UI is fucking fire!

I'm gonna miss cool looking custom WeakAura UIs

[vocal surge]

Aye, same

[vocal surge]

Cleaned house

[outer sky]

This is the biggest downside to that change theyre making. Im all for getting rid of the extra shit that screams "DEATHMARK ON TEAMMATE 2. PRESS CAUT FLAME NOW". but the ones that make people's UIs more sensible to them are fine IMO

[outer sky]

Lock is more consistently one shotty but the one shots arent as fast. Hunter has the quick 100-0 in under 1s one shots but a bit less likely to get them to happen

[fathom crag]

outlaw looks so fun on alpha

stealth gameplay finally gone

and looks very playable with 200 ms compare to the current version

[outer sky]

Have you been playing alpha or just watching people who have?

[fathom crag]

i play

[outer sky]

Have you tried all the specs? Also how does it feel with the DR changes and the cheap shot CD? Is it as bad as I probably think it is?

[fathom crag]

yea its extremely bad

cheap is 12sec

and kidney still 30

[outer sky]

I was afraid you would say that

[fathom crag]

if we dont do a shit ton of damage idk what would be the point to play rogue over warrior

cus blind is still 5sec

[outer sky]

Id hope that they have a plan for this because the cheap shot CD was definitely a targeted PVP change. Nobody cares about cheap shot spam in pve

[fathom crag]

to be honnest the 12sec cheap as outlaw is fine id say because we dont have a stealth gameplay anymore

but if outlaw does no dam its pointless to play it

[outer sky]

Well assa still has spammable garrote silence right?

[fathom crag]

yea but carnage is gone

[outer sky]

Still, spammable silence is pretty good

[fathom crag]

they force us to play poison build

for midnight

i wonder how its gna look vs hpal

[outer sky]

I already know how. Terrible

Im just holding out hope that there are still big changes to come because ive had the same thought as you. "Without our CC, arent we just squishy warriors?"

[fathom crag]

just need to see numbers

if we do no damage then were useless

[outer sky]

Yeah but even still. I dont like the idea of the only meaningful difference between a rogue and a warrior being the damage tuning

[fathom crag]

i dont know how the fk blind is still 5sec

shouldve been 6 when they nerfed it

not 8 but 6 at least

its like blind sapping a rele

[outer sky]

6s is how long it takes to drop combat and I think blizzard specifically wanted to remove the blind>sap mechanic from the game

[fathom crag]

yea

[outer sky]

It seems like an obvious problem. Certainly they know these changes as of now just make rogues squishy warriors. Hopefully they won't let it go live like that

Wonder what the forums are saying about it all

[fathom crag]

like what is this useless talent

😂

running this not sure if its good or na

[outer sky]

YO DID WE GET VENDETTA BACK???

Oh, no. Thats not vendetta. Thats just the icon for it. Rip

[fathom crag]

LOL

good change to deathmark tho

[outer sky]

They removed it?

[potent pivot]

makes kb stack faster

i still dislike that they're leaving it as a debuff

assuming it can probably still be dispelled

for some god forsaken reason

[outer sky]

I actually dont like this. And the reason why is because the issue with deathmark is how many things can just get rid of it. Caut flame, mending bandage, dwarf and dark iron dwarf racial, etc.

So in some weird way I kind of want deathmark to be as trash as possible because the more of assa's "power" is tied up in that cooldown, the more impactful removing it becomes and the worse it will feel when that happens

[fathom crag]

yea i wish they would bring back vendetta

this is huge

fuck ambush

[outer sky]

Or make it a choice node with vendetta. Tune it so deathmark is the obvious choice in pve and vendetta is the obvious choice in pvp

[potent pivot]

[outer sky]

Yes that is a very good change. Although we've been asking for this since before TWW came out. I made a post on the forums during beta about it. Not sure why it took them until a whole new expansion to do it

Im actually fine with a lot of these changes. The ONLY thing that has me dooming is the cheap shot CD

[fathom crag]

energy feels rly bad tho

but prob missing the other talents

also crimson tempest is now 60 energy

[potent pivot]

energy is going to be a lot slower

like a loooot slower

[fathom crag]

yea i noticed

its very annoying

[outer sky]

For assa only or all specs?

[potent pivot]

the biggest difference is assa

assa will be pooling energy again in pve

[fathom crag]

assa/outlaw i will try sub now

[potent pivot]

sub should be mostly fine inside CDs

[outer sky]

Weren't they already doing that because of sanguine blades or whatever that talent is called

[potent pivot]

i don't think so

maybe at one point they were, but idr

but with the stuff currently on alpha assa will be pooling a bit even on 2-3 target cleave iirc

[outer sky]

Thats weird if theyre not. When I played assa in pve I treated 150 energy as 0 energy since going below 150 energy was such a massive dps loss

Sanguine blades stops procing

[potent pivot]

maybe in ST they were

but like in m+ even on bosses i don't think pooling has been a thing

[outer sky]

I dont think its enough

[potent pivot]

thats sub only i think

[outer sky]

It is

But even still

Im honestly having a hard time even conceptualizing rogues without spammable cheap shot

[fathom crag]

i like this

[potent pivot]

look at how many modifiers are gone

from evis especially

[fathom crag]

yeah

[wanton breach]

i like that design choice

[fathom crag]

i fk w shadowstrike a lot

[outer sky]

This is a good thing IMO. Too many talents were just redundant damage modifiers for the same ability. Cut that all out and just bake it into the base damage of the ability and use those talent nodes for more interesting shit

[potent pivot]

i don't mind some of the changes, but giving sub a haste cap is war crime levels of bad

[wanton breach]

having to have haste for more shadow dances kinda sucks tho for sub pvp

[potent pivot]

yeah but then you end up with unimpactful burst windows

[fathom crag]

were still rupturing tho

[outer sky]

Not if the base damage is tuned properly.

I guess im just wondering what rogues are supposed to be in pvp without their CC kit

Like what is blizzard going for

[potent pivot]

warrior 2.0

[outer sky]

You think theyre really aiming for that?

It seems like such an obvious blunder

[potent pivot]

idk what else to call it

[fathom crag]

we have 0 spells its insane

my shadow dance is 14 sec duration

LOL

[outer sky]

Its like trimaz said, unless rogues do way more damage, there's no reason to play one over a warrior. But damage numbers change. So thats fundamentally a bad design. Because then you just have 2 copies of the same class and you swap between them based on the damage tuning

There's gotta be utility differences

[potent pivot]

whats the cd on blind

with the aoe talent

[fathom crag]

yea exactly the ccs are so bad so not sure whats going on in their head

on, what spec? @potent pivot

cus on law its short asf

[potent pivot]

i think its base tree

[fathom crag]

24 sec

[potent pivot]

like class tree

yea

[fathom crag]

yea but outlaw has a personnal talent to reduce blind

[potent pivot]

i think we just have to run that

ah

[outer sky]

But how long does it last?

Like 1.5s?

[potent pivot]

at this point i don't think it matters

just having that constant micro cc

unless you're playing for set ups

[outer sky]

I wonder if this kills RMP as a comp

[potent pivot]

that cd is just so low it sounds too good to pass up idk

[fathom crag]

i think its like 3/4 sec

[potent pivot]

or is it just base blind

[outer sky]

LOL

[potent pivot]

thats shortened

[outer sky]

Why would we ever want to blind someone for 0.75s

Thats not even a global

[fathom crag]

i need someone to duel to see

[potent pivot]

what

[outer sky]

What would you do with it

[potent pivot]

i think he meant 3-4?

[fathom crag]

i wanna try blind in pvp i na duel

wait sec

it was 12 sec in pve

[potent pivot]

ye

[fathom crag]

its 2.5 sec in pvp

[outer sky]

Trimaz did you mean 3 or 4 seconds or literally 3/4s

[fathom crag]

just tried in a duel

[potent pivot]

thats kinda decent

[outer sky]

Ok 2.5

[fathom crag]

2.5 sec just tested in pvp

[outer sky]

Is it still on a choice node?

[fathom crag]

yea

this or gouge

[outer sky]

Ok so now im wondering

Gouge has what a 25s CD?

[fathom crag]

how long is gouge duration on retail? says 4 here

25 sec cd

[outer sky]

Same

Yeah so

By taking short CD blind

We lose gouge

And blind duration

[potent pivot]

oh

[fathom crag]

it could be good if u run setup comp and u want to PRE the kill target

but idk

[outer sky]

And anything you could do with the 2.5s blind you could do with gouge and it'll last longer

[fathom crag]

think gouge better overall

[outer sky]

Yeah I think so too

[potent pivot]

yea that immedtiately doesn't make sense anymore

i didn't realize it was on a node with gouge

[fathom crag]

will be insane in mm+ tho

[potent pivot]

ya fs

basically just a free aoe stop

with very short cd

[outer sky]

Ok so gouge and blind are staying as is

Garrote silence is staying as is

[potent pivot]

well

[outer sky]

We're just getting fucked on our stuns

[potent pivot]

i think gar silence is a bit different

the duration you can do it within and the aoe?

but idk

[outer sky]

In terms of what it does to the target I mean

Like its not getting a CD

[potent pivot]

ye thats the same

[outer sky]

Its not getting shorter duration

[fathom crag]

i like the long dance

[potent pivot]

i think long dance is live too?

[outer sky]

Oh thats intentional? I thouhht it was a bug

[potent pivot]

or at least they added the haste shit to it

[potent pivot]

yes

[fathom crag]

not as long as midnight

its literally 14 sec here

[potent pivot]

ye just the haste

[fathom crag]

yea

i got 22%

[potent pivot]

new talents also make it longer iirc right

whats the CD with that 22% haste

[fathom crag]

prob gna play 2x vanish in pvp

for the cheap

[potent pivot]

yea

[fathom crag]

what cd

which spell imean

[potent pivot]

dance cd

[fathom crag]

30sec atm

[potent pivot]

or all of them

so nearly 50% dance uptime

does symbols desync at all?

or sec tech

the pve guys were complaining at first about possible desyncing, i think of sec tech

[tight hill]

[outer sky]

So sad

[potent pivot]

ye ik

[outer sky]

Correct me if im wrong but cheap shot has NEVER had a CD has it?

[fathom crag]

never

[outer sky]

Man they should at least give us back 20s kidney

I was watching some old twitch streams of mine from Shadowlands and in this one game I blind>sapped the priest then kidney'd the warrior for 7 seconds. Man I miss those days

[potent pivot]

they've been lowering the skill ceiling for years now it feels

[fathom crag]

im aiming to play rotten build

since everything is based around shadowstrike

still stuck in combat with rupture as deathstalker 🙂

gna report it like i reported it on TWW alpha/beta

:à

🙂

[potent pivot]

kinda feels like thats the direction its going in atm ye

[outer sky]

So on one hand I feel the frustration and get it. Like it is really obnoxious how you pop a CD and youre immediately cloned into stunned into rooted into incapped into slept into whatever else. But I dont really think this is the solution. I think the root of the problem is actually that CC has become less and less needed to secure a kill and so people have no issue just pissing it all away. I like the idea of the game having lot of CC in the sense of it being needed to coordinate chains to secure kills. I dont like the idea of a lot of CC when it means 3x DR stunning, fearing, blinding a mage to stop a frost bolt cast because who gives a fuck. And right now it seems like theyre trying to deal with that by just removing the CC itself instead of addressing the root of the problem. Almost like a "lazy" solution. Am I making any sense or have I lost yall?

[potent pivot]

i've been reporting this shit since tww beta as well

probably 10 times by now

[outer sky]

"Work in Progress" meanwhile some incel made a weakaura that does the job just fine in 30 minutes on his laptop

[fathom crag]

sub feels really fun

[outer sky]

I imagine with the CC changes sub is less try-hard and you can actually just do damage and play the game instead of having to worry about getting perfect cross CC on everyone before your dance ends

One thing i really want them to prune are healer "oh shit!" Buttons

This game is most fun when its very rare that an arena lasts more than 3 or 4 minutes

The worst metas are the ones that rely on dampening and healer mana to end

That should pretty much never happen IMO

And the first step towards making sure we dont have those metas is getting rid of some of these instant save buttons

[fathom crag]

i can tell already sub is gna be out of control in last season of midnight

cus stats will be so high

u gna have insane amount of haste for CDR & good mastery for finishers

[outer sky]

Lol bro where have you been the last 20 years? If it looks like it even might be OP for even a minute they'll call an emergency meeting and hotfix it mid week. We ain't ret paladins bud

[fathom crag]

🤣

[vocal surge]

Ret Paladins on their way to have 2 immunities, a full lay on hands, hella strong abilities, and then 1min CD Lay on Hands that are affected by dampenings

[outer sky]

Yeah we're definitely getting the bad deal here. Also nobody is talking about how these CC changes disproportionately benefit classes that have 1 CC cooldown on a short CD. Like hunter

None of this is a nerf to hunter

They still get their freeze trap every go

Its all they need now

It'll be all they need then

[vocal surge]

Ye

[outer sky]

And it'll be unchanged

[vocal surge]

Its so busted

[outer sky]

And let me guess. Thats on the paladin tree, not the holy tree?

[vocal surge]

Ye

that's in the Paladin Tree

[outer sky]

Of course

[vocal surge]

all 3 specs can get it

you can buff up that healing by 20% in Avenging Wrath

[outer sky]

Theyre making it impossible to misplay as a pally.

[vocal surge]

Yeee

[outer sky]

Died through bop or sac? Not anymore

Can use last second lol

Because what those things already do isnt enough I guess

[vocal surge]

Also they got the talent on the tree

where 10% healing done to them is also given to nearby allies

mfw Paladins are subclass healers regardless of spec

Tigole's philosophy on hybrid classes gone out the window now

[outer sky]

Thats my biggest complaint about the design philosophy of paladins. They get a ton of really good abilities but for some reason they also do a ton of extra shit that they dont need to do to still be really good

[vocal surge]

Yeee

[outer sky]

Like sanc cant JUST be a trinket for your healer on a 1m CD. Thats not enough. It has to also reduce future CC duration too

[vocal surge]

If they get talents like these on the tree

at that point, balance the WHOLE class like Augvoker

because now they're actually playing Hybrid Support / X

Support Healer (Holy), Support DPS (Ret), Support Tank (Prot)

[outer sky]

Nah theyre still going to one shot you and you know it. And when you complain blizzard will take a few months and slap them with a trivial 4% auto attack damage nerf so you only get overkilled by 1m damage instead of 1.1m damage

[vocal surge]

lol

[broken otter]

I had a Ret in a BG who claimed they completely gutted Ret with the most recent Ret slap on the wrist we got a month or two ago now

Dude was deadass about it

It was the same tuning pass where Arcane got nuked from high orbit

And (I was on my Mage) he was using Arcane as an excuse for Ret being acceptable. I wasn't even playing Arcane.

Like, brother, Arcane got (rightfully) decimated, and you ate a 15% nerf to a single fucking ability

God forbid they close their class Discord in protest again.

[vocal surge]

Yeee

[outer sky]

Youre talking about the 15% hammer of light nerf?

[broken otter]

I think so, yeah.

It was a hero talent, I think.

[vocal surge]

Looks like Warriors gonna have 1 shot potential

in Midnight

[outer sky]

Yeah looks like the sun is gonna rise in the east this morning

[broken otter]

Haha

Their new spear ability looks fucking disgusting too

[vocal surge]

Nah

look at Arms Warrior talent tree

and look at Heroic Strike

If they get a cleave off

amp Slam's damage by 50%

[outer sky]

I think the haha was directed at me

[vocal surge]

Slam gets upgraded to Heroic Strike by Apex Talents

[broken otter]

Yeah it was at the sun in the east comment

[vocal surge]

Ah

go Colossus btw

[outer sky]

Man I want a cool new ability

I wonder if theres still a chance we'll get onw

One*

[broken otter]

Someone on YouTube (I forget who) was saying Rogues usually get changed up last on the alphas/betas historically?

[broken otter]

Maybe there's hope

[vocal surge]

Colossus Smash gives 30% more damage

Sweeping Strike to spread that Heroic Strike for 75% to nearby targets

They giving all warrior specs Last Stand

[outer sky]

Ive never heard that but I hope it's true. Do you remember if it was at least someone credible? Or some no name

[wanton breach]

I for one welcome our plate overlords

[broken otter]

All I know is they were in Midnight alpha. Might have been a high level PvE player

Killakris or Whispyr maybe?

Can't look into it beyond glimpsing my YouTube history atm

[vocal surge]

Watch a warrior casually smack someone and then someone else for 40% of their HP in a global

Both players btw

Honestly I'm impressed that with ~550 STR, Blizzard makes warrior hit for tens of thousands

[gleaming sentinel]

Warrior might be an alt for me in midnight ngl

[vocal surge]

Yeee

I might do Warrior just cause their damage is so insane

[outer sky]

Its alpha. I wouldn't make any commitments yet

[vocal surge]

We got remix thou

Level any class to 80 in prep for Midnight

[broken otter]

Remix is such a slog this time around

I've been playing constantly and I have 3 80s, with my highest ilvl being 687

Frost Mage*

I still haven't come close to unlocking all of the rewards in this current phase too

It sucks, cause I have major FOMO and I feel like I can't play retail or I'll miss out on Remix rewards

[vocal surge]

I got all the rewards unlocked

Except the M+ 50 key and the FoS

As well as 2 other armor types deathless runs in M ToV

[broken otter]

Every single bronze item?

[vocal surge]

Ye

[broken otter]

Damn

[vocal surge]

Waiting for new ones to come out

[broken otter]

I'm still working on buying all the raid and dungeon sets

I got all the mounts and some pets

[vocal surge]

I even have 1400 motes on my warrior

[broken otter]

And the unique xmog ones

[vocal surge]

Waiting for blizz to make em account bound

[broken otter]

Man, I'm doing something wrong

Kinda regret pouring my time into a Mage and not a tank

I just always mained Mage

[vocal surge]

Honestly

I think there should be a catch up mechanic

For people under 200% vers

[broken otter]

Hahahahaha

I have 17%

XD

[vocal surge]

Most of the player base are over 200% rn

Im in the 300s

[broken otter]

Fuck me

[vocal surge]

Could be 400s

If I wasn't slacking off

[broken otter]

I think I took too much time to smell the flowers

[vocal surge]

I started 3 days late btw

Was slamming 30s by ilvl 660, 60% vers

[broken otter]

Yeah I haven't touched m+ yet

I was doing world content lfr and heroics

Cause I cba making/lfg

Now I'm so far behind, I doubt anyone would take me

[gleaming sentinel]

My main is outlaw forever.

It’s easy to make and maintain alts tho

[broken otter]

I bounce between Mage Rogue and Warlock mostly

[vocal surge]

You get exponentially stronger the more infinite power you get

Especially Warrior tank lol

Each Limits Unbound gives 1% STR, STA, and Vers ye?

All that STR liquidates into attack power

And my mastery boosts up that power by 98%

Battle shout for 5% more

Crits increase my damage by 110%

And I have 100% crit rate

And ye

[broken otter]

Oh shit I just googled it. Mythic plus is stupid OP for power gains

[vocal surge]

There's the Vers boost

Ye

[broken otter]

I guess I gotta do it

[vocal surge]

You get 98 fragments per run

[broken otter]

Oh shit

That's insane

[vocal surge]

Lowers slightly each run you do consecutively

Also raids

Give you ezpz 20 levels

Per day

[broken otter]

Nice

[vocal surge]

Ontop of gear upgrades and motes

2 - 4 motes per boss depending on difficulty

And a chance for a drop

[broken otter]

Guess I'm gonna have to make my own groups

[vocal surge]

Mythic bossed reward up to ~35 epochs per kill

Nighthold Mythic Guldan gives 70 if I recall

[broken otter]

How long is the avg mythic boss kill?

Cause LFR kills take a few mins, but I imagine it's because the powerful players aren't running it much

[gleaming sentinel]

nno more pve for me til midnight

[vocal surge]

Like 20s

[broken otter]

Oh shit

[dark kernel]

I need to try this. Did you do it on rogue?

[gleaming sentinel]

yea outlaw

[vocal surge]

Unless you got a low vers group then it can go upwards of 2mins

[broken otter]

Still not bad

[gleaming sentinel]

took me like 80 fucking tries tho

lol

[vocal surge]

My warrior does upwards of 70M dps

[dark kernel]

How bad is it? I didn't do the last 2 because I was just kazy

[broken otter]

Are people gate keeping?

[vocal surge]

Lol

Ye

[broken otter]

Or is it just fill the raid with warm bodies

[vocal surge]

Some raids gatekeep

[broken otter]

Oof

[gleaming sentinel]

for me just had a hard time with facing the clones properly, when i got that down it was easy. but it took me a lot of tries

[spring bough]

Game beat

[gleaming sentinel]

just casual shuffle qs from here on

[spring bough]

I’m about 2-3 lobby’s away from elite on sin

[gleaming sentinel]

maybea 3s team :<

[gleaming sentinel]

ye i got strat on sin and elite in shuffle. need to maybe do legend on sin idk

[spring bough]

Working on blitz as sin too. 5-0 and 1450 already lol

[gleaming sentinel]

ez

[dark kernel]

Ahh.

I've got a dedicated dancing with the Stars team now for 3d.

[gleaming sentinel]

nice man

[dark kernel]

I'm shelving shuffle for the immediate future

[gleaming sentinel]

I'd love to be a housewife for a nice caster one day

[dark kernel]

For real

My boomy is an ex glad heeler and our priest is a 4x glad

We've kind of cruised to 2200mmr

[gleaming sentinel]

routing for you buddy

[dark kernel]

I don't think I'll get it

But next season absolutely

Beginning of expansion hype, increased player base, and lower requirements

[gleaming sentinel]

plenty of inflation left

[outer sky]

You have plenty of time and inflation to go. It may be at the tail end of the season but I think you can get it. In season 1 I got my glad about a month before the season ended but a friend of mine needed help getting his so I queued with him for it and we got it for him 15 minutes before the season ended.

[spring bough]

YOU CAN DO EEEEETTT

[spring bough]

https://youtu.be/uwTi1EpgIa0?si=A6H8ufJd4jH2GUjj

[wet crown]

Think I'm leaning lock just because bane of havoc in bgs is always funny

[outer sky]

Can't go wrong either way

[wet crown]

I love lock but kiting the mongos sucks when nobody peels

[outer sky]

Yeah but it has to be that way because if it wasnt destro would just one shot everyone in the 1st 30 seconds lol

[wet crown]

Yeah lol

It's fine with peels though. Actually has cc worth a damn unlike mage

Against kill targets

It's also fun just to have damage outside limited windows. What is the big mm burst button? Black arrow in trueshot?

[outer sky]

Yeah with explosive shot after a volley

Disgusting

Or you could even play sentinel

Which has a damage amp too

Probably less rng

[gleaming sentinel]

destro and mm well represented at the top of shuff

[wet crown]

Always love me some lock

Helps that they're looking very good in midnight

[gleaming sentinel]

ridin the pirate til the wheels come off

if outlaw sucks i'll take a break i think

[wet crown]

I'm probably gonna play rogue more at launch for double gathering

Get 8 mil gold from rocks

[spring bough]

One sin rogue. One outlaw rogue. Midnight season one

[vocal surge]

Dropping that 3min game with the shammy

In here lol

That one is rage inducing for the enemy team xD

[spring bough]

You recorded those games? Lol

[vocal surge]

Some of em

Lol

The one I'm talking about was the one I ranged

While he was in cheap shot

Both of us Hella low (you died after their healer dropped because dot and lava burst)

[spring bough]

Yeah that dude def smashed his computer after that game

[gleaming sentinel]

waaz in a triple rogue dk lobby rofl

[vocal surge]

Still uploading lol

80%

Slow upload speeds

Absolute Cinema

There we go

[dark kernel]

Yeah that sham is mad.

[vocal surge]

XD

[vocal surge]

Was he tbagging you or somethin?

[spring bough]

No. Saying the sham def smashed his computer after you ranged killed him lol

[vocal surge]

Not that lol

I noticed he ran over to your body when rewatching it

Was wondering if he was tbagging or emoting on you

[spring bough]

He coulda been don’t remember we played so many games yesterday lol

[vocal surge]

Tru

[wet crown]

gonna flip if outlaw doesn't get a new mastery

[spring bough]

Can they go back to just extra main hand swings like sword spec back in the day

[wet crown]

most dogshit mastery in the entire game

[spring bough]

Maybe add sinister extra to it too

[vocal surge]

It scales strong in high numbers

[wet crown]

I'm actually trying to think of a worse mastery

I can't think of anything worse

[vocal surge]

But with limited secondary stats, its not good

[spring bough]

“An extra weapon swing at 200% effectiveness and may generate additional combo points if applicable” and applies to melee, and sinister strike/ambush

[wet crown]

it's outlaw so I'm not even convinced the combo point would do much

unless our energy is still actual dogshit when midnight comes out, but at that point we got worse problems.

[gleaming sentinel]

On remix, main gauche is top dmg outside of the artifact ability lol

[vocal surge]

^

[spring bough]

😭

[noble venture]

I got muted for shit posting too much so I couldn't share, but I got 2400 in 2v2 around a week ago

This is my first 2400 in the traditional brackets

[vocal surge]

Sheesh

[dark kernel]

In shadowlands and before, mastery was actually decent because it made you have more offhand strikes, theoretically more energy procs from offhand

Then they changed it to make mastery just modify the damage, probably easier to balance but it made it worse

[gleaming sentinel]

Pve standpoint it’s nice I don’t compete with anyone for crit vers gear really

[wanton breach]

then they didn't do anything with it and left it to rot

[wanton breach]

10M dmg within 0.4s

[spring bough]

Mages disgust me

It brings me joy when I burst them within 20 seconds off the opener

[wanton breach]

really maikes me want to play MM

[spring bough]

We don’t need anymore of those in solo either 😂

[gleaming sentinel]

LF mage for 3 (no console players)

[jaunty mirage]

Best PR team in wow

Pretty comfortably the best arena class of all time and nowhere near as hated as like rogue/lock etc.

[dark kernel]

Nothing has been more insane than DF/TWW mage

[jaunty mirage]

Idk blaster master mage was pretty wild

That one slides way under the radar

[dark kernel]

I don't necessarily know if that is some particular niche

There has always been certain specializations or even a specific build that can be gigabusted for like a patch, but mage has been significantly strong continuously

[jaunty mirage]

Mage has had the most seasons across wow arena history where they are good-great

[gleaming sentinel]

Rogue mage lock you can’t go wrong if you’re a PvP player

[jaunty mirage]

Blaster master was beginning of bfa, was an Azerite trait that boosted their mastery by a crazy amount whenever they pressed fireblast and stacked

It was pretty insane

[dark kernel]

Yeah these builds are always fun but never stick around.

There was a wotlK Frost DK build that did the same thing, only it was stupid easy to pull off and you could just spam people to death in arena

[jaunty mirage]

You’re thinking of cata I think

First season of cata frost dk was comedic and it legit was just 3 buttons unless you wanted to get fancy

But blaster master lasted most of that season same with s9 frost dk

[dark kernel]

Nah it's not Cata it was 100% wrath

It was the icy touch/frost strike meme build blizzard fucked up coding sigils and the ones that increased icy touch damage affected the BASE damage, then got multiplied by modifiers and it ballooned the damage to insane degrees

It got nerfed pretty fast, but you could 3 shot people in full pvp gear

[gilded gulch]

I think a core difference is mage is borderline useless in the hands of low rated players.

Its skill ceiling is so high though

[jaunty mirage]

Ahh maybe I just don’t remember that cause launch dk was so wild

[gilded gulch]

if its not a mlx season bad mages get stomped

[jaunty mirage]

I mean yeah to an extent

You could say the same thing about rogue though

[gilded gulch]

Yeah assa is

uhh

how do i put it nicely

[jaunty mirage]

And they are 10x more hated with far fewer great seasons than mage

[gilded gulch]

I got my first duelist not tracking drs

lets just put it that way

kidney tb mfd go

[jaunty mirage]

Mage has def had some seasons where lifetime rivals were getting glad though

[gilded gulch]

Yeah….

sl s3

corrupted s4 bfa

[jaunty mirage]

I’m just saying they should have a similar rep to rogues but don’t

[gilded gulch]

to name a few

I mean i dont disagree

but most rep is built off sub 1600 gameplay

[jaunty mirage]

I think it goes back to vanilla

[gilded gulch]

i think mage is fairly disliked in higher end communities

of pvp

Thats all my point is tbh

[jaunty mirage]

Nah I think it’s just that in vanilla locks and rogues were clearly designed for PvP in a time where the game wasn’t really fully set up for organized PvP

[gilded gulch]

That low rated/casual gameplay perception shapes overall more

[jaunty mirage]

Lot of peoples hurt feelings about those two classes goes back to the beginning of their wow career

[gilded gulch]

Yeah but vanilla was like 20 years ago

that shit holding on is impressive

[jaunty mirage]

Doesn’t matter really, that’s what sticks

It’s not holding anything really, it’s just that you get one perception in your head and everyone runs with it

[gilded gulch]

Wow players are kind of slow adapting to change i think

But yeah i mean early rogue had the kit to completely dunk on people.

[jaunty mirage]

Yeah same with lock

It’s like they had different dev direction than every other class

[gilded gulch]

You had people like neilyo really show what it could do.

in the hands of someone good

And then you have reckful who is likely the most immortalized player

deserves it but that helps

[jaunty mirage]

Yeah for sure

Also a lot of the more popular streamers and tournament players have been rogues

[gilded gulch]

Other classes like warrior it feels more like you are a pve bot that plays goalie

in stopping enemy setups

[jaunty mirage]

Wars will just never escape the zug accusations even when it has a high skill ceiling

[gilded gulch]

its because war has less tools to close out a game

way rogue or mage have

i dont think pika would have gotten nearly as popular a streamer if he played a less setup class.

Just doesnt impress low rated viewers as much

[jaunty mirage]

Yeah for sure

[gilded gulch]

end of the day the biggest culprit of rogue hate is just stealth

i dont think any other pvp game has perma invis if you choose to stay in it

[jaunty mirage]

Prob more the combo of stealth and control

Mostly sub

Assa is like the sv hunter of rogue, it’s just a lot of sustained damage but they are in your face the whole time

MM and sub will always be hated because of their damage profile

Sub is designed to kill you while you can’t control your character, people will always hate that

When people talk about why they hate rogues, most of the time they’re talking about sub

[gilded gulch]

Yeah true

although assa crippling poison can be incredibly oppressive too

[jaunty mirage]

Yes for sure, just not in the same way

[gilded gulch]

for real

assa mostly only gets complaints when you’re just dying

[jaunty mirage]

When sub is good it alters the gameplay of the entire match for both teams

[gilded gulch]

to any rando kidney off dr

tuning thing

[jaunty mirage]

If one person presses trinket it’s basically over

[gilded gulch]

worse when duel existed

[jaunty mirage]

Yeah

[gilded gulch]

and you could get clapped 100-0 in duel

[jaunty mirage]

Duel was an insane thing to add to the game

[gilded gulch]

Yeah imo it severely limited

how much sub could do

just because you had 2 ways to gib someone without a trinket

[jaunty mirage]

MM is the same though reslly

And both suffer from blizzard not knowing how to balance them

So either they are good and you can die in .3 seconds without being able to do anything about

Or they are pointless

[gilded gulch]

key point is people hate when they die before they can react

convoke boomkin

[jaunty mirage]

Yeah

[gilded gulch]

its just worse when its done by a class with stealth

because you see them coming even less

[jaunty mirage]

Yeah for sure stealth plays a big role

[pliant lintel]

mmmm if you trinket piss or use defensive CD's poorly you should be punished, i think sub should be able to kill in stuns without every modifier in the game

[wet crown]

Well what's stupid is less that and more recovery

Like I gotta wait 1 minute or so for my burst and have no sustain, or damage outside of said burst

But if a paladin or any hybrid survives the stunlock they self heal to full before your next global

And they can pressure a kill on you basically 24/7

[languid ravine]

Ret pala in my 3k blitz lobby is hardstuck at 1800 shuffle I dont usually but how

[jaunty mirage]

Right but that’s not what I was talking about lol

The times when sub has been good you have an entire team afraid to trinket literally anything, even trinketing something you should trinket is going to lead to you dying

[wet crown]

Brain damage

[jaunty mirage]

Tbf you can’t give sub the burst to kill in a stun and also good sustain

[wet crown]

They can't even give outlaw good sustain letalone sub

I liked mop/wod sub a lot more though because you had kill potential every minute/restealth

[jaunty mirage]

Yeah but that also makes sub hard to balance

It’s just always gonna be hard to balance

Any spec whose identity is based around burst is gonna be hard to balance because people hate dying like that

[pliant lintel]

sub has always been that

[jaunty mirage]

Yeah

[pliant lintel]

since forever you were on a timer

[jaunty mirage]

Yeah

Like I said hard to balance lol

You can either kill someone in a cheapshot and everyone complains, or you can’t at which point you might as well play assa

[pliant lintel]

the problem was solo shuffle/uncoordinated 3s, you can't have sub killing people in stuns because your team can't properly trade defensives

[jaunty mirage]

I mean yeah but people complained about sub long before shuffle

[pliant lintel]

yea of course

[jaunty mirage]

It’s just a spec that’s easy to hate when it’s good

Tbh I think they should toy with it having both burst and sustain but making it squishy

[pliant lintel]

it was the ultimate noob killer spec, if you trade CD's bad you were dead next go

[jaunty mirage]

Yeah

[pliant lintel]

I actually think if sub had good burst now it would in directly make the game better

[jaunty mirage]

It keeps certain specs honest yeah

[vocal surge]

What I did to the poor shaman yesterday from 20% HP

[vocal surge]

The session it occurred xD

[spring bough]

how does sudden demise get healed.....

[lime oar]

Can sub 100-0 in a kidney and Dr’d cheaps rn?

[pliant lintel]

it can.. with blades and all modifiers

[lime oar]

Could be worse but still pretty whack

The last time I had fun with sub was DF season 2 I think

[pliant lintel]

sub was ok until they removed cdr from vanish and duel

[austere thorn]

Duel had to go imo
Just a nightmare to properly balance

[languid ravine]

imagine we had duel during 7mil aimed shot meta

fun

just kidding its already not fun

[spring bough]

flag capped and retunred flag in same run on WSG

[spring bough]

i think ima log off after this one....

15+ mil damage in 1.2seconds... mostly bleeds too lol

[hidden moth]

fate bound pvp is so

weird

vs ds assa

feels so weird having more front loaded damage its like a completly diff playstyle

[wet crown]

Log in just after gearing my lock a few hours ago

instantly wipe out a orgrimmar raid lol

the shadow rift + the knock item is a funny little thing

[spring bough]

fun**

[hidden moth]

yes

im haivng to getr used to new opener for burst

so used to having to cheap ambush bc ds

[spring bough]

i get a lucky coin pretty much every round

[hidden moth]

also assuming with 2 set since ti makes KB trigger edgecase it also makes KB do 2 coins?

[spring bough]

i think so ive got a ton of lucky coins

[hidden moth]

yeah its doign 2 per kb

god damn

[wet crown]

shiv also buffs the cosmic damage, so the one shots can be pretty funny

[hidden moth]

death mark 2 coin into kb 2 coin into envenom crit

nut

[wet crown]

feel useless outside those windows though lol

[spring bough]

just get a restealth and keep the bleeds and wait for them to be back up

and then smoke some1

[hidden moth]

suramar campaign hella long, i got highmountain and stormheim to do as well. got lkore runner azuna and valsharah @spring bough

whic hzone next

[wet crown]

suramar is like

[hidden moth]

for horde

[wet crown]

two patches

so yeah

[spring bough]

they all sucked lol

suramar the worst

[hidden moth]

suramar is so fucking long, i remember doing it for night borne race

[wet crown]

it was the endgame legion zone till broken shore

pmuch