pvp

[potent pivot]

Leave my stuns alone damnit

[spring bough]

But blizz is mean

[potent pivot]

That really depends on the seasons inflation and your personal opinion

There’s various levels of “good”

[gleaming pawn]

They should however, prune all the stuns back out of the game. There is no good reason why every jackass outside of Rogue got them injected into their class when Rogue was literally built around them

[spring bough]

I like this take

[stoic spruce]

Movement and CCs should be pruned

You ever fight arcane/disc in 2s?

[spring bough]

Why’s a lock have two stuns and two fears

[stoic spruce]

Lock has inifinite

Everything went to shit when they gave every rogue spec gouge and disarm

The creep should be studied

[dark kernel]

I am going to say this.

I don't care if you don't like outlaw

But if you GENUINELY Enjoy playing Assassination rogue then you need to be out on a FBI watch list

I can acknowledge being a number whore and wanting to play "the best spec" but that's a different discussion

[stoic spruce]

I cant

[gleaming pawn]

I don’t know any Rogue mains that actually like the rot trash we are forced to play

[stoic spruce]

Because when it's outlaw, the few who reroll are dogwater and should stay off my spec

They're announcing rogue rework

[spring bough]

No WAs no Stuns 2026

[stoic spruce]

It's just new ebg new arena and they talk about that for 20 minutes

That's why it's at the end before the vague QoL updates

[abstract stratus]

No comment

[dark kernel]

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/SzVWFQiu57YYvtb9OiACJy65qGDq-SY1JpvOylUUMrg/https/media.tenor.com/jz_lByja9EcAAAAe/kid-lol.png

[vocal surge]

Are they actually?

[stoic spruce]

You know everything I know

[gleaming sentinel]

outlaw is the original support spec, prove me wrong

[stoic spruce]

Wear the cone of shame

Hard agree

I miss when my pvp talents were team oriented

[gleaming sentinel]

here let me stun this target for you mr wizard, and take 15% dmg with it

[stoic spruce]

And you'd actually want an outlaw to team fight

[gleaming sentinel]

suck it augmentation

[dark kernel]

I've tried running sting like a bee with tricks macro in shuffle

But it's so clunky to rely on your team

[stoic spruce]

Oof

Yeah I only use that in real arenas

It actually works great there

I hope outlaw gets a build that doesn't rely in vanish

Because

The only reason I die is because I don't have a vanish when I need it

[dark kernel]

There was that build @vocal surge was running on ptr that was cold blood and no crack shot just dispatch spam

[stoic spruce]

That's throwing in 2025

FB coins proc off finishers

[vocal surge]

Oh lol

[dark kernel]

Yeah all finishers

I'm saying this no cap. That after the fatebound nerf Blizzard could make ace up your sleeve a 100% proc in subterfuge windows and it wouldn't even be broken, just balanced

We MAY do the same damage as other dps

[stoic spruce]

We'd 100% run trickster

For 100% crit chance on bte

I'm not convinced the nerf was all that bad tbh

[dark kernel]

Ehh I don't feel awful, but I'm having a lot of games again where I'm sitting at 800k DPS with most others sitting 1.3m to 1.5m

[stoic spruce]

A lot better than last season that's for sure

[spring bough]

ive had atleastt 3 rounds this season with 20 + BTE casts in a round where all but 1 was a crit

still havent hit the 20+ BTEs at 100% crit tho still chasing lol

[small thistle]

so is outlaw even good at pvp or not

[hearty hatch]

hi is anybody using gladius? announcments?

[dark kernel]

It's "okay" but it's worse than Assa and sub

Solid B

[small thistle]

Coming from fury warrior 2.2 in BFA , dh or outlaw ? What u think

[stoic spruce]

Dh

[potent pivot]

its really fine, don't think i'd even say its worse than sub rn

[vocal surge]

DH

[gusty hedge]

https://tenor.com/view/yujirohanma-baki-bakithegrappler-yujiro-my-honest-reaction-gif-26044070

[potent pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/bad-callouts-rogue-gif-26757787

[gleaming sentinel]

I don’t feel completely useless on team fights maps anymore

[dark kernel]

This show is so fun to watch as a brainless show.

https://tenor.com/view/yes-gif-18581085

[vocal surge]

https://tenor.com/view/apple-fritter-baki-gif-11019679326178488687

[dark kernel]

Shits so funny

His faces

[stoic spruce]

I'm not pvping next expansion

At all

You can't pay me

Enough

Void dh

I can already tell I’m going to see this thing and be taking my hands off my keyboard when it hits me with an empowered domain expansion because I didn’t cc it during blink

They're gonna

Give this mf

A heal absorb

Fucking

5 DRs

Gonna be the most busted pos ever

[spring bough]

Bro I just picturing this thing hitting blink and the scythe just aoe killing us all 😂

[tender tartan]

what do yall think about the 4 rogue 2 resto drood lobbies

in shuff

[stoic spruce]

I think I'd play 3 rounds and leave just to waste everyone's time

[gleaming pawn]

this is why you finally join the meta and pvp on the new broken af void DH

[stoic spruce]

No

Wtf ew

EWWW

Yucky

[stoic spruce]

Still mad you said this btw

[gleaming pawn]

lol I'm sorry!

but between DK and Rogue, I thought you finally deserved a win

[gleaming sentinel]

outlaw just won an arena cup we're so back

[gleaming pawn]

yep you just gotta be Whaaz, ez

[stoic spruce]

That's so considerate of you

I hope and pray we get stealthless outlaw back in pvp

[hybrid sapphire]

dont forget to upgrade your reshii wraps sisters

[languid ravine]

Three Outlaw Rogues

did I win?

[dark stump]

what did i miss ? trick being racist to yellow?

[noble osprey]

anyone got a solid assa build for soloq?

[dark stump]

there's one in the pin

[grave basin]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/spend-10-more-points-across-three-trees-and-new-talents-in-midnight-378287

BOIS

Enhanced killing spree? Enhanced gsw

[dark stump]

it also mean other class will be buffed

[tight hill]

What's preferred healer now for Assa/Aff?

[loud ember]

do you guys ever use kidney shot on anything but KT

[potent pivot]

oh no…

[grave basin]

Enhanced sec tec

[stoic spruce]

Enhanced Crackshot!

[potent pivot]

I really didn’t think they’d be dense enough to just keep adding talents

Everything is already way too bloated down

[stoic spruce]

When things get bloated they usually go up

But they know they can't keep the trees forever and will scale them down when the time comes

[halcyon timber]

Def cannot stand hivemind “finishers only” stuff. That bs would have to be reduced effectiveness or something for sure.

[halcyon timber]

Yeah sometimes on off targets to stop railing a team mate and then abuse the freak out of em when they trinket .

[keen canopy]

enhanced killing spree
instead of it being a rapid fire barrage
it instead has you teleport around the enemy while slashing at them

enhanced secret technique
it's like secret technique
but it does more damage

[stoic spruce]

We just got rid of this

[keen canopy]

yeah thats the idea

[stoic spruce]

Why do you want it back?

[keen canopy]

enhanced

[harsh kiln]

enhanced indeed

[static holly]

Saturday, 11am CEST we will get some PvP information (and others).

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldofpvp/s/rlAmlQDgNr

[grave basin]

new bg

comp stomp permanent

that's it

that's literally all

[stoic spruce]

There's a reason it's right before the QoL segment at the end

[waxen meteor]

I like more talent points I remember sub is always missing a couple of points!

Sin can probably make DTB standard

[stoic spruce]

Call me crazy

But

For some reason

I got a feeling they're cooking

Then again

[dark kernel]

Literally if they just adjust rewards for how small the player base is

That's it

[stoic spruce]

There hasn't been a single bad thing about Midnight yet. So there's gotta be a catch.

Hmm

[waxen meteor]

This is just commercial lol

Before you see it’s done as described

[gleaming sentinel]

Pikaboo made a little side comment “might be the best PvP expac ever? Idk make sure you guys tune in”

[waxen meteor]

Nothing is real

[stoic spruce]

Normally thered be something where you go "oh that's bad" but midnight doesn't have that

[dark kernel]

I saw that too, and man I'm copiun

If Blizzard really out a SMALL amount of effort they could see huge sub numbers back for pvp

Like there was a time where 3 million of the subs actively played PvP

[waxen meteor]

hope so

I normally don't pay too much attention until it's actually done

tbh as long as if official can take out healer from arena and make rated mode queue A LOT faster, everything else will be fine

if the PvP queue and mechanism is more modern, a lot more people will be more involved in PvP, then it's not a 'small player base' thing, then everything will be better

[static holly]

They will add a new arena too, pretty sure 😄

[static holly]

The queue sucks ass, sure but they need to rework the whole MMR system. It's super outdated

[waxen meteor]

MMR is not a real issue imo, I think even in games like dota/lol etc also has MMR in similar form.

[stoic spruce]

Big changes to outlaw coming

[waxen meteor]

I think the real problem is the team composition, it requires a healer on each team

healer population is way less than 33%

if all queues are short of healer SUPER BADLY, they need to think about rework PvP as no healer mode, with reasonable balance

Easy to say of course, hard to do

[stoic spruce]

https://youtu.be/ZL846VrXkKU?t=1299

@spring bough "expansion level changes" in the context of unholy dk and outlaw

[spring bough]

Hmmm

[stoic spruce]

Towards the end

[dark kernel]

Oh real?

[stoic spruce]

Yeah

[static holly]

MMR should reward you for your effort and not punish you for the stupidity of someone else like afk/leaving etc. so no it's not good

Imagine you get bots as healers in arena some day and just kill the bot. Don't think that it will make you happy 😄

[waxen meteor]

That should be rare tbh

in a way, if we end up with similar MMR with bot, either we suck, or the bot is fantastic (which might be a good thing for long term?)

or of course, like in Asian servers, cheated for high MMR characters and abused it, that's a different story

[spring bough]

How much u wanna bet outlaw gets renamed

And we get a new toolkit or someshit lol

Is there some type of void rogue out there in the lore 😂

[dark kernel]

After playing with roll the bones, I kind of wish they would rework it into a momentum based passive. Like you generate dice based off finishers, and make us actually press SND again

Instead of the opposite where SND is the passive

[stoic spruce]

Nah. I'm pretty sure it's another DF level revamp

[spring bough]

If roll the bones became talents u could pick for the buffs I’d be so down for that

[stoic spruce]

Literally the only thing they could do wrong is make vanish even more loaded than it already is

[spring bough]

I’d be so down for RTB to become passive talents that are 100% uptime

But u can’t get em all only some

[stoic spruce]

I wouldn't. That defeats the purpose

[dark kernel]

Yeah but make it ramp

So the longer you are engaged the more dice you generate

[stoic spruce]

Yall get back in the kitchen. I'm going to bed. And when I wake up, I better have some great cooks.

[spring bough]

Or say the more energy u regen if u pick that bones buff

[dark kernel]

I'm going to be frank, I Like how must rogue specs play

I don't like sin in general, but it's better than it was in the past

[spring bough]

I kinda miss the 15min long SND buff lol

[dark kernel]

They just all feel like wet noodles outside of CDs

Or bad RNG with outlaw

[jolly sierra]

assa forces you to learn to kite

if you dont run enough, its over

[dark kernel]

Nothing feels worse than trolling dice, having 3 buff, full CPs, vanishing to crack window and getting no ace up your sleeve proc. Spamming 3 sinisters, but no double strikes. Oops doing no damage

[jolly sierra]

you need to abuse the knife usage with the poisoned knife spell

[dark kernel]

Did they remove the Assa step talent for allies?

That shit was OP as fuck

[dark stump]

play affli if u want to start easy on kiting

or even frost mage

[jolly sierra]

disgusting i hate cloth classes

specially mages and aff locks

[dark stump]

u prefer elem sham?

[jolly sierra]

i hate casters

and healers

i only tolerate locks in both destro and demo

aff only scratch his balls doing dmg

[dark stump]

that's racist

tolerating destro and demo

[jolly sierra]

fkn casters play like persons and face ppl u cowards

[grave basin]

first game of the day

cant wait to paly world of warcraft pvp

leaves before the gates open round 1

????????????????????????????????????????

[spring bough]

He took the 0-6 early 😂

Bro said I won’t let this hunter have the satisfaction of blasting 😂

[grave basin]

.......>

[lethal thicket]

worth disarming ret? never played ret before

[dark kernel]

No

[lethal thicket]

so if playing against ret caster just dont take disarm?

[gleaming sentinel]

assa alt ready to go baby

[static holly]

A few posted that they get disconnected when joining arenas or blitz.

[halcyon timber]

Yes dismantle on a ret is good. Stops some but not all of their damage though.

[grave basin]

How's devoker

Wait did you main devoker or demo I forgot

[gleaming sentinel]

im an outlaw main

but i can play dev/demo too

https://youtu.be/xraylGcUpRI?si=-1Xl0Uh8lCVteDEh

Rofl oh Ven

Outlaw is the best melee in the game guys

[fickle sierra]

i fucking wish

[untold remnant]

Ret needs nerfs

Asap

[dark kernel]

He clearly didn't update that prior to hotfixes

We probably are better than feral at this moment but that's pending.

[jaunty osprey]

ven

[fickle sierra]

any decent outlaw pvp i can watch?

[jaunty osprey]

Whaazz

[dark kernel]

Only whaazz is actually playing it

Until ValthePirate returns

[jaunty osprey]

Dazed

[dark kernel]

Which is soon (TBD)

[jaunty osprey]

Val was playing Outlaw yesterday

Faced him 5 games in 3s

[dark kernel]

Yeah but he doesn't go live

And neither does Dazed

[unique garnet]

Thats a lie he was online yesterday

Just muted due to at gamescom

[dark kernel]

You uhh...aren't reading what I wrote correctly

[unique garnet]

Thats true im half reading at my work lunch break

Ah Val, yeah, heck even Whaaz was like "I dont recommend outlaw to people cause even i cant play it perfectly all the time" cause the class is overly complicated for some reason

[gleaming sentinel]

Potential hint at a rework?

[waxen meteor]

That's his list?

[gleaming sentinel]

Yea

[spring bough]

I hope u beat him everytime

[waxen meteor]

I am not sure if any rogue spec is at 'S'

but there are 19230281321 specs at S, it's not really an S anyway..

[gleaming sentinel]

Outlaw in 3s with an arcane or moonkin is totally s tier

[waxen meteor]

More Arcane/Boomy S tier, Outlaw good addon to true S tier 😉

[dark kernel]

That's just normal. Rogue makes the other class insane.

Like nobody else is doing the whaazz Raiku boogaloo

[finite onyx]

yo is double jeopardy bugged that it sometimes doesnt give you two flips or does it have an internal cooldown?

[gleaming sentinel]

lots of specs are really good when they play a good comp

[potent pivot]

Make sure you check about the bug

[gleaming sentinel]

that synergizes

[potent pivot]

You can’t be casting adr until right after you break stealth etc

[finite onyx]

im playing assa

[potent pivot]

Yellow name

[finite onyx]

😄

[potent pivot]

I didn’t remember there being a bug around stealth coins for assa

[finite onyx]

ok the bug seems to occur when opening with ambush, guess you dont need to do that anyway im just used to it from deathstalker

[jaunty osprey]

Went 4-1 🙁 first game we lost cause not on comms vs outlaw arcane

[untold remnant]

Two lobbies in a row where Ret went 6-0 XD giga busted spec

[spring bough]

arcane mages ruin everything

[dark kernel]

Lf arcane mage for 3s

[potent pivot]

[gleaming sentinel]

it would take me an expac to get good at arcane

[dark kernel]

No time like the present

I had four mages on my battle tag and none of them play anymore

[gleaming sentinel]

i already got 3 rogues, im all in

[static holly]

Do you all play multiple classes? My brain can only handle rogue 🤣

Tried all and different specs but most of them are boring

[gleaming sentinel]

ive tried most over the years

[sharp sierra]

i alt switch classes every week

[spring bough]

Arcane nerf when. Hotfix too pls blizz. Oh wait that’s just rogue fml

wow so i guess with TWW they disabled transferring characters from different battle net accounts..... RIP

[static holly]

Tried priest (disc) last week... Thought I should heal a bit and grind some saddle progress but damn... What a pain

I'd rather sit in the queue with my rogue . Not worth it

[dark kernel]

I need a third but my time to minimal

[spring bough]

time to level up a new night elf rogue see if i can get myself to queing tomorrow

atleast i got all my mogs n mounts back lol

[dark kernel]

They did do that, because that's how people were selling glad mounts

[wet crown]

I also play mage and I'm not seeing how fire is that high personally, did I miss something?

[static holly]

Hope they finally get rid of racials

[lone jasper]

Hello where can i find PVP builds rn? murlok talents not working.

[static holly]

Skill-Capped has updated some of its guides

But I'm not sure on their gear recommendations.. seems off to me

[wet crown]

personally I'm hoping they just nuke ret paladins from orbit.

[spring bough]

so ive been having an issue when pvping where right click nameplates brings up the menu where u can inspect players.... i just found an addon i apparently have called "nameplatecontextmenu" that enables the right click of nameplates..... if any1 is having that issue make sure u disable that. i have no idea how this addon downloaded

[static holly]

Just reroll dh. New specs/classes are a save bet to be OP

[gleaming sentinel]

Just 6-0’d a 2100 lobby on assa idk, this spec just more designed for this game mode

[wet crown]

how is rogue feeling in shuffle, anyway?

I kinda wanna break from casters while doing my illusion grind this time around

[manic steppe]

with fb or ds?

[gleaming sentinel]

I’m playing death stalker atm

I don’t think it matters I’m just used to ds maybe a better rogue can say

[static holly]

Assa is nice. Having so much control is 👌

[gleaming pawn]

FB does less damage the more enemies are around, and DS funnels damage the more targets are around. DS was always going to be best with a non-broken coin damage tuning

You also have better defensives as DS

[dark kernel]

Assassination is by leaps and bounds better then outlaw for the sheer fact it has a third CC being silence

Nothing else matters, not damage, or rot pressure

That alone

[runic laurel]

You’re saying damage doesn’t matter in shuffle just the third cc? Why isn’t sub better in shuffle when it has access to longer cc more frequently?

[static holly]

Assa does a lot DMG (AOE) but also has a good amount of cc options

[waxen meteor]

Garrote silence is huge

And that's also why NE is huge for sin

Another reset just makes our game play 1239821 times more aggressive

[static holly]

I don't really like sub. It's just burst and when you get cc'd you have to wait

[waxen meteor]

When I play my undead main rogue in arena vs my alt NE rogue in arena

it always feels a lot different

[static holly]

I hate to play ne but yes, ur sadly right

[waxen meteor]

another quicker reset and push enemy into def just makes the whole game totally different

[static holly]

They really need to nerf it 😄

[waxen meteor]

no they can keep it

I just cannot accept my main as alliance...

[spring bough]

do i level the new night elf rogue as outlaw or as sin

[static holly]

I changed back to goblin. For style 🤣

[waxen meteor]

just buy the 12.0 pac and get a ding

[spring bough]

is that on the base upgrade?

LOL im here got to level 5 and ive had a free level 80 boost this whole time.... RIP

time to pvp soon XD

[dark kernel]

I'm not saying that damage itself doesn't matter, but what I'm saying is right now that the huge factor is sin does good damage, especially in respect to both other rogue specs and it has an entire third mechanism to stop healing and other spells

[spring bough]

question is do i level it to 80 as outlaw or sin

fk it another outlaw rogue who am i kidding lol

[gleaming sentinel]

[dark kernel]

Man just bite the bullet and so some sin gameplay

With the time you spend your crazy not trying to find a 3s team now

[jaunty mirage]

is sv at A just because only 26 people play that spec and 10 of them are bicmex?

[waxen meteor]

It’s not my list my friend

[jaunty mirage]

i know i was just curious

sv damage is pretty wild atm

though i guess not much wilder than ret/arcane/dk

[waxen meteor]

I don’t know tbh, the sv hunters I run into have huge variance

[jaunty mirage]

yeah i mean its still one of the hardest specs in the game to be good at

[waxen meteor]

Maybe as you said 10/26 are one person

For me it’s Arcane mage, Boomy, Ret the S

[jaunty mirage]

with big damage the good ones are gonna seem insane but the bad ones will still die pretty fast cause its a squishy spec

yeah id agree with that

[waxen meteor]

DK can be somewhere A+ to me

[jaunty mirage]

both uhdk and frost are right on the edge of s tier

tbh assa is probably around there too

[waxen meteor]

you can join the queue of ss, and do everything you want to do for 30 minutes

[spring bough]

here is a tip if any1 needs it. if 1 wow acct is suspended and u have another u can still warband transfer honor to the new one lol

fully ready for solo on the new night elf rogue XD

[indigo hill]

Can also not get suspended. 😁

[spring bough]

that would work too lmao

[dark kernel]

I will just avoid bgblitz

[static holly]

I really like blitz. But the amount of Afkers, Leavers or similar is super annoying

[indigo hill]

Same in random plus premades.

[hollow carbon]

https://tenor.com/view/roblox-fish-fish-dance-silly-roblox-meme-gif-11571450167461927503

Naga allied race?!

[dark kernel]

Who the fuck made that lmao

[spring bough]

full honor gear lol

[potent pivot]

this is the fake one isn't it

[static holly]

It's an old leak, it has been posted 9m ago?

[potent pivot]

it's not a leak though

its been proven fake since the week it got spread around

[static holly]

Fake because of what?

[potent pivot]

some guy made it for a youtube video if it's the same one i'm thinking of

https://youtu.be/ZkahB_hecno?si=tj57ueFpsSdT0USP&t=438

this guy

[static holly]

It's originally from a Twitter post. When you look at his history and look at the previous leak the timelines are pretty accurate

Sec

[potent pivot]

yea i remember the post but iirc this vid was from days before it or something

idk

i heard it was a fake from one of the wowhead writers iirc

just went off that

[dark kernel]

That's pretty good damage for honor gear. Do you just tab the rogue the moment the druids out of melee?

[spring bough]

first lobby 6-0. full honor gear. no tier. fatebound KIR

[dark kernel]

Makes sense if it's fresh rogue no mmr

[spring bough]

i only killled the rogue once on a swap when he had the devo on his team

[dark kernel]

I've said it before, but I still don't understand how you pump so hard in active games

I wish you'd upload a shuffle lobby one day to see

Even when I go full balls to wall damage no CC the amount of CC I eat usually kills it somewhat

[stoic spruce]

I knew it was fake the moment I read "Order Hall Updates" as if they've EVER went back and updated legacy content in a way that mattered.

[static holly]

What was 9m ago and the midnight roadmap was from 7m ago

[spring bough]

i have quite a few videos ive uploaded to this channel just gotta go back in time on the search lol

[dark kernel]

Alright then.

[late oriole]

Whose everyone's favorite youtube for sub PvP?

Trying it out after maining Outlaw for PVE

[spring bough]

@dark kernel

That was a 6-0 lobby too lol

[dark kernel]

That's wild. You hard open kidney on a healer and just tunneled him down

[gleaming sentinel]

No word on PvP yet eh?

I guess that’s at 1am

[dark kernel]

I almost never am hitting healers it just never seemed to work for me unless it's a melee cleave lobby

[static holly]

11am cest

[gleaming sentinel]

I’m on freedom time

[stoic spruce]

They almost never peel for healers

[dark kernel]

Brother unless I triple CC on opener every match I'm getting CCd immediately

I usually am sap double CS into ar+gs go

We're also in rsham meta right now which is like the worst of the worst for outlaw

[spring bough]

i play outlaw. im not here to CC perfect. im here to smash buttons and brawl and win a match brawling lol

[dark kernel]

I understand that each game is different, i just need to change the way i play

[spring bough]

if one of you sub rogues was in a skirmish and an outalw rogue just BTE range killed u that was me ❤️

[exotic dove]

Speaking of Sub I am actually tempted to go full in on it for a little bit. I been having a great time in 2s just completely destroying people in a bomb lol with no trinket.

The deletion of health pools have been fun

haven't done a shuffle yet since last season on it though

[gleaming sentinel]

Haranir racial announced

“Smart” roots

[spring bough]

what that mean

AI ability deciding who to root for u? Lmao

[gleaming sentinel]

Damages enemies and heals allies idk

And you get a dark iron dwarf style teleport

That’s cool

[spring bough]

are these like night elfs but live underground

[stoic spruce]

Yeah

Dirt elves

[stoic spruce]

I don't think it's an actual root cc but more a debuff that has root animation for flavor

[gleaming sentinel]

Ah I see

[spring bough]

so thats what 5 skins of elves in the game lol

[gleaming sentinel]

I will be a dirt elf

[spring bough]

as long as meld still works.... ima prob play night elf

[stoic spruce]

Yeah

[spring bough]

can we get a 2nd skin of kul tiran

i want another giant rogue

[sonic sparrow]

Whats the best rogue in pvp now?

[static holly]

When you play a nightelf in midnight, you are not eligible to use the 10 skill points

[spring bough]

ret over 6 rounds how many BOPs on allys just take a guess..... ZERO lmaoooooooooo

[spring bough]

whats that mean lol

[static holly]

That we have to get rid of the ne Meta Race

[spring bough]

they wont remove meld from pvp cause if they do that they gotta remove others stuff lmao

[static holly]

Didn't they add a meld potion for PvE

[stoic spruce]

Based

[static holly]

Super lazy.... And yes, the will probably never nerf nightelfs

[stoic spruce]

It means play a real race

[spring bough]

hey i usually main kul tiran

[stoic spruce]

Real race

[spring bough]

but this extra stealth after this FB nerf is a nice dps increase

[gleaming sentinel]

tauren outlaw is bis

[static holly]

I know but they talk about removing add-ons because players without them are in a disadvantage and yet the keep racials

[spring bough]

which tauren tho

cause highmountain got that damage reduction

if u wanna get REAL tanky

[gleaming sentinel]

big ol moose rogue

very sneaky

[wet crown]

So, I haven't pvped on outlaw for awhile. How's it's ability to kill someone who over extends and isolates themselves? Or is it more about annoying people with CC so your teammates can secure a kill?

Purely RSS standpoint.

I'd say I'm experienced with rogue PVP, but I'm not really a fan of the state of pvp r/n. My main intention is to push 1950 in RSS or something and go back to more casual crap. Guidance is appreciated.

[potent pivot]

A lot of it is ye, you still do an okay amount of damage but yeh

[potent pivot]

Can kinda play w/e spec you want for the most part

[wet crown]

Alright. So if I get someone alone and killing spree them, it's not a huge threat by itself? How about durability, how much of a kill target is rogue r/n?

[potent pivot]

not a huge one no

outlaw is pretty durable

[spring bough]

outlaw beyond S tier for this cooking brawl

[polar sail]

what spec we runnin boys and girls

sub seems godly

tbh

lots of control

im ass at ass

how do you set up the kill window

and then how to burst?

whos the rogue God that can help me here

[exotic dove]

Sub is actually very lethal right now imo its great. Extremely strong burst and control its really fun. I am not home atm but I am sure others will chime in

and help with builds and what not

[gleaming pawn]

Go watch Ivanrah, he streams sometimes. His links are in his bio

[exotic dove]

and I am not a god unfort

[gleaming pawn]

Sorry, that’s for Sin gameplay

If you want Sub, there is always Nahj

[dark kernel]

Nahj doesn't stream atm

There are really not a lot of rogue streamers anymore

[gleaming pawn]

Sub is still mostly the same it’s been all expansion, his old vids still work

But yeah, why would people stream Rogue right now when they could play literally any other spec

[spring bough]

1601 in full honor gear off 6 lobbys isnt too bad

[potent pivot]

he has a couple times since the new season i think

but yeh pretty sparse

[dark kernel]

Yeah but only twice and random hours

And those two times were the only times he streamed in the last 6 weeks

[harsh kiln]

Hes got two Jobs outside of twitch i think I heard somewhere, and thats why Hes not streaming

As much*

[dark kernel]

Yes that's correct

He's working like 75 hours a week

[harsh kiln]

Bonkers

[wet crown]

What's likely the best rss spec right now, sin?

[dark kernel]

Yeah unfortunately his stream just took a really big hit after the first two seasons of dragonflight

And he was trying a bunch of different things cross streaming trying to get more income. And then twitch killed ad revenue

And that pretty much sealed it

[harsh kiln]

Probably because they completely butchered double dps 2s

[dark kernel]

I think the lack of three's queues, people doing 2s, and then solo shuffle becoming one of the primary game modes in the queue being so long just hurt viewability of the stream

Same thing happened to Pshero

He was just fed up with having to sit

[harsh kiln]

Yeah seems reasonable

[dark kernel]

It actually kind of pains me that we really don't have any rogue streamers anymore outside of Whaazz

[harsh kiln]

Well, im curently r3 subrogue in EU. So if youve got any questions ill just pass that to someone who actually knows stuff and then ill relay the answer back to you

[harsh kiln]

Doesnt shadenox stream anymore either?

Im so out of touch, i rarely watch twitch

[potent pivot]

yeah i was kinda hoping he'd stream some more of the new season but wasn't expecting it

[potent pivot]

only a couple ppl stream rogue now

ivan, nessper, trimaz i think

kalvish/palumor when they aren't multiclassing

[harsh kiln]

Drdaggers does stream outlaw sometimes

[potent pivot]

they exist, they just aren't streaming/playing rogue every single day

[tender tartan]

sub pvp talents same as sin mostly?

bomb disarm feint buff?

[potent pivot]

pretty much

swap out disarm/feint talents where applicable

[dark kernel]

yeah I do understand that, like Kalvish plays but almost solely BGB now on Rogue and I just...dont find that fun

[tender tartan]

ever pressing bp in ss?

i'd assume not but maybe im wrong

[potent pivot]

no

never pressing bp ever tbh

[tender tartan]

kk takin that shit off my bars then thanks

[spring bough]

love when the solo shuffle breaks and only 5 people get in a lobby,,, RIP

waited 45min for that lol

[dark kernel]

https://tenor.com/view/hug-hugs-cuddle-gif-17754615575577561160

[hybrid sapphire]

is there a way to assign a ping to a keybind?

like /pingmytarget some shit like that

/ping [@target] Attack

[potent pivot]

iirc ye

either through the in game settings or with macros

[hybrid sapphire]

natively theres a way to assign a ping to a key but i didnt know how to do it to a specific target (my target, in this case) but someone on the forums figured it out and i pasted it above

[viscid dagger]

Any guides or builds for assa rogue with murlok io down?

[potent pivot]

pins

[dry cosmos]

any assa nerds than can help a brotha out

[polar sail]

i wanna see some dam gameplay

if youre good

stream

lets see some arena

solo shuffle

anything

[potent pivot]

all the best players done quit

[potent pivot]

watcha need

[dry cosmos]

cold blood for kingsbane or dm

im new so dont roast

[potent pivot]

if playing the FB build you use a talent that makes CB only work on envenom, you can just macro CB to KB so that you're mostly pressing it on CD

[dry cosmos]

ahhhh shit okay thanks man

[potent pivot]

npnp

[polar sail]

shold we be using one of those pvp gems for the all stat gem or na

[potent pivot]

Huh

[languid ravine]

Do we have a shitty alternative to murlok to look up tiersets for the different classes etc?

[polar sail]

theres pvp gems

multi stat

we cc reduction

with*

[potent pivot]

not really, that i'm aware of

murlok should be fine tho

[potent pivot]

you mean the red gems ye? ye we use one

we use the dmg reduction during cc one

[spring bough]

i wish they would add a save for delves if your pvp que pops while running one. hate having to rerun it lol

[untold remnant]

Assa feels so unplayable when every lobby is a ret/holy paladin and a survival hunter

You can't press deathmark xD

And BoP removes ur deathstalker's mark too

Completely negates the hero talent

[manic steppe]

ye feel the same way

[wet crown]

What's the kill combo for outlaw? KS them and mag dump crackshots?

[spring bough]

i just had 2 ques less than 1 min back to back lobbys

crazy pvp going on right now for whatever reason lol

[stoic spruce]

Since outlaw rework is coming in midnight

I'm kinda just gonna chill lol

[tight hill]

looking at drustvar and praying for pal nerfs

[hard compass]

first q was 30sec now dumpstered back to standard waiting times 🙁

totally forgot we got free heraldries til the poster dropped after 9 shuff rounds

[tight hill]

[halcyon timber]

Rets still think they need more stuff too.

[spring bough]

have they said what it is tho

[stoic spruce]

No

We just know it's coming

[spring bough]

then i dont believe it

looking forward to extra talents tho

[halcyon timber]

Yeah i def dig the enhanced talents and such. From the interview it seemed they are getting us to enhance parts of our kits that we like. Def like that instead of some weird cult influence “only x” nonsense

[stoic spruce]

Well they mentioned outlaw by name twice

[halcyon timber]

They mentioned outlaw several times and in 11.0 too. Def on the radar.

[hard compass]

will the pvp panel be streamed today?

[stoic spruce]

Yeah

[stoic spruce]

Honestly the worst they could do is make vanish even more loaded than it already is.

[untold remnant]

Holy surv, into holy ret next lobby

[spring bough]

tell me more

[stoic spruce]

That's about it really

KS is as bad as it could be

Uhhh

Yeah thats it

[gusty hedge]

i hope not the class doesnt really need weak auras to play. kind of lol just rtb maybe. other than that just play around enemy's defensive & cc their goes and counter with yours /reset,repeat

[stoic spruce]

Outlaw is shittly designed regardless

Need is a strong word but you're doing yourself a massive disservice by not tracking things.

[hard compass]

do we get next catalyst charge this wek

[grave basin]

Yes and I'd be shocked if they didn't flat out remove RTB

Or make it passive

Or auto proc

Isn't that one of the biggest "you need a weak aura" culprits?

Ok I RTB let me find it real quick amongst the 20 buffs I have hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[hard compass]

is that live now?

[grave basin]

Obviously not

[hard compass]

the stream, not nameplates

[grave basin]

Oh lol

Idk, saw it on the Assa channel

[hard compass]

ah okay

[stoic spruce]

No, KiR is

!container

[grave basin]

How would you know to kir.

You need to track your rolls first

[stoic spruce]

The container theory

The container theory is the actual culprit but KiR plays around it

[balmy shuttle]

RtB, BtE, BF, Subterfuge, Vanish, AR, Fazed debuff, Unseen Blade stacks etc. I track almost every buff we have on outlaw with TMW (not weakauras) and it feels necessary because buffs falling off is abysmal for our DMG. So is not using short time windows like Subterfuge optimally.

[grave basin]

Yes but first you need to know your rolls

As a baseline

I know what you're trying to say

[stoic spruce]

You should know what they do, yes. But that can be solved with a tooltip.

Which btw

[grave basin]

Subterfuge is also a big one yea

[stoic spruce]

Doesn't exist for rtb buffs still

[vocal surge]

I wonder how Outlaw will get reworked

[stoic spruce]

If they remove rtb I'm swapping to assa

Rtb is what makes outlaw outlaw

[vocal surge]

Not really

RTB took away what made Combat

to make Outlaw

[stoic spruce]

No one cares about combat

[vocal surge]

Combat and Outlaw is only different

just by Roll the Bones

[grave basin]

They don't need to remove it

They do need to make it trackable for KIR

[stoic spruce]

Rtb and bte buff management gave outlaw the depth combat never had.

They just need to get rid of the container shit

I like the variance rtb gives on my variance spec

[grave basin]

You're not solving the problem of finding your buffs amongst the shitshow of buffs

Unless you just wanna roll on cd

And have it not make any impact

Then at that point what's the point

[stoic spruce]

They should get rid of container buff

[vocal surge]

^

[stoic spruce]

And just have cto buffs not able to be rolled off

[vocal surge]

My issue with RTB

without tthe tracker

[static holly]

https://x.com/TaliesinEvitel/status/1959185130343346560?t=Q7j7Ox6nhmQ9HAj7IAqMtA&s=19

Xaliesin & Evitel (@TaliesinEvitel)

For the PVPers, new epic 40v40 BG Slayer’s Rise, including an outdoor version for world PVP

X · Aug 23, 2025, 9:25 AM

[vocal surge]

I have to physically look at my 3 lines of buff bars

to see what I got

And that determines if I have to reroll early, hold, or reroll at 8s

[grave basin]

So it's literally just void ashran

[vocal surge]

Yee

[grave basin]

So whoever has the most mm hunters/boomies win

[static holly]

Not sure. Didn't they say you can summon something

[vocal surge]

It'll be either overtuned or undertuned

[static holly]

There is no vod yet. Only some posts on Twitter. Not sure if there is anyone later

Sad...

The talent tree is also on twitter

[gusty hedge]

dont need to track half those things tbh bf vanish ar bte. The rest is personal imo, didnt know tou could even track unseen blade, thats a good one if main trickster.
sub window is a must tho i agree with that, have a sound playing the last second to know when i cant spam bte

[gusty hedge]

i hope they keep rtb. just make the rolls diff

[stoic spruce]

With the built in CD and buff tracker, rtb doesn't really need changes at all

Other than the container

Which btw

Is perfectly adequate now

[gusty hedge]

did they already announce what they are changing? or all speculation. havent been able to check yet

[stoic spruce]

We just know we're getting a rework

Nothing specific

I'd expect a df level revamp though

[languid ravine]

How to Fix RTB:
Give every buff its own resource generation
This should make low rolls better and high rolls worse because they cant spend it all
also hopefully will make pressing sinister strike FIVE times in a row less of a meme (why is this even a thing)
There blizz its that easy

[stoic spruce]

I don't think rtb had this many issues before the energy nerf

[languid ravine]

its probably fine right now also considering Count The Odds

[stoic spruce]

The energy nerf and cto in sl

[languid ravine]

but why not make it better 🙂

I m telling ya RTB needs to be good at 2-3 buffs but not OP at 5-6 buffs

overcapped unspendable energy is one way maybe the best way

and it fits the theme of 100% uptime spec CDR feedback looping

[stoic spruce]

I'm 99% sure they're fixing that

Fixing how aggressive it is I mean

It's actually the specs biggest flaw rn

[scarlet shell]

void alterac.

[languid ravine]

why dont they just fix Warfronts and make an actual good game mode for once

theres a reason people are addicted to Dota/LoL

where is 3v3v3v3 mode?

30 player Battle Royale?

Duel mode?

5v5 dps only shuffle?

fuckit, Tank Only Epic BGS

now we talking

[gusty hedge]

more reg bg/ 10v10 15v15
highly over epic bgs
2v2 solo shuffle
bring back dueling guild shit they had in BFA

[stoic spruce]

Remember that wod ffa arena?

[static holly]

Minimal effort bc no team, not enough income through PvP stuff

Housing is the new cash cow

Shop will explode

[stoic spruce]

They're not adding housing stuff to the shop

That was confirmed a while back

[static holly]

There is a new boosting opportunity here. I will design your homes and u gimme your gold

[stoic spruce]

What is with these shitty doomers lately

[vocal surge]

XD

[stoic spruce]

Bro they're in every discord

It's like

A new strain or something

There's gotta be a college in rage baiting and the students just graduated.

[vocal surge]

Aye

[stoic spruce]

Apparently unholy dk having wounds removed is NOT, I repeat, NOT, a rework.

[vocal surge]

Im famous

on the Forums

lol

[stoic spruce]

Erm, source?

[vocal surge]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/over-nerfed-fatebound-in-pvp-arenas-specifically/2153433/9

[stoic spruce]

I'm gonna be honest

Purely out of spite

I can't be on the same side as mafic

My problem with the nerf is it won't get unnerfed once we lose tier

Frankly I think outlaw is fine post nerf

But post nerf + post tier?

Ain't looking hot

[grave basin]

Hes in EVERY rogue post

😭

[stoic spruce]

Dude

Last ptr cycle

He drowned out all the real, actual feedback with absolutely

SHITTY

[grave basin]

Dude straight up has negative aura

[stoic spruce]

CORNBALL TAKES

[grave basin]

Omg you're a valued member of the rogue community 👍

🏄 🏄‍♀️

[stoic spruce]

He's a member of all time

[grave basin]

Get fucked

[stoic spruce]

Dude

When the dev said they're reading the forums in the same convo as unholy and outlaw reworks, I immediately thought of Mafic.

And went

https://tenor.com/view/wtf-omg-shocked-omg-no-nope-gif-18331372

My biggest fear is devs listening to forum mains.

On any spec

It's such a cooked place

[glass hazel]

2x2 shuffle without healers would be fun actually

[grave basin]

Say that again but on a warrior

Or warlock

[stoic spruce]

I'd abuse tf out of it with rogue

[glass hazel]

whats wrong with warlock or warrior?:)

[stoic spruce]

Oh god double rogue

In double dps 2s

[grave basin]

You insta lose?

[manic steppe]

when you get a draw does that mean someone left?

[vocal surge]

Me n VanCleef out here already Double Rogue'd to 1800 xD

[stoic spruce]

Its an insane comp honestly

Double sub esp

[manic steppe]

was mid round of last round and was about to win and then randomly it told me draw

[grave basin]

Yea but double rogue isn't that same as warrior or warlock

[stoic spruce]

Nah

Warrior would lose

[glass hazel]

they will be shuffled anyway

[stoic spruce]

Against double caster

[glass hazel]

as for hs could just ban it

[stoic spruce]

This is basically just prot pal lobbies

[glass hazel]

same like hero etc

[stoic spruce]

And yall hate those

[glass hazel]

or make it non transferable i dunno

[grave basin]

Even if you make it shuffle the warrior just loses 0 4

[vocal surge]

Lol

Im thinking about doing a post about my expectations for Outlaw in Midnight

[potent pivot]

What is all this talk of an “exploit” rofl

I wouldn’t really call using a macro to get around a negative impact bug exploiting in the slightest

[gusty hedge]

outlaw nerfed every patch but no real buffs, sinister strike buff every now and then is ass
why people still say we are op not sure how this spec is still hanging in there

[gusty hedge]

this is funny because fate sin coin doubling outlaw coin damage.
Outlaw gets the heat. getting a 2mil+ coin let alone 3 mil is so rng. ive never hit over 2.1m coin on a player, highest around 1.8 m pre nerf. that was with about 15 stacks . assasin hitting 3.5 2m + standard. but hey lets blame outlaw for OP coins because they can lucky coin off burst due to tier set

[dark kernel]

People watch awc and see whaazz play

That's it

There was already a post yesterday on worldofpvp about rogues being vroken

Related to it

[gusty hedge]

that's wild lol the focus and energy it take to play it. even whaaz doesnt play perfect half of the time but his arena exp makes it seem OP because of the mobility and timing of his cc.

[stoic spruce]

Do it

[gusty hedge]

gotta check it out.
World pvp no balance
no boundary limits no dampenenin

[empty copper]

can anyone tell me opener and rotation for assa pvp

[dark kernel]

And people don't even realize that Raiku is a literal mage God

He has 31 ranked one titles

He has played since the burning crusade at a gladiator level

There's no singular competitive player in existence that has that length of time

The only player who has nearly that many titles is ironically enough Jahmilli

[gleaming sentinel]

i was so excited to see tthe pvp news today

[dark kernel]

Oh yeah I forgot that was supposed to be happening, but isn't it literally just nothing

[gleaming sentinel]

PvP proving grounds might be a dub

[potent pivot]

What was all the news

Only saw the epic BG thing posted here, needa go watch the thing

[gleaming sentinel]

Only notable one

[potent pivot]

ouch

i saw something the other day about comp stomp being available indefinitely

[stoic spruce]

Yeah

[potent pivot]

thats a sick change

[gleaming sentinel]

Yea for sure

[potent pivot]

they prolly saw it was by far the most popular brawl

for so long

[stoic spruce]

Telling people they have to learn by throwing themselves in the fire is very demotivating for them and annoying for us because they don't actually learn unless they like the abuse.

[potent pivot]

i really hope they put more effort in

yep

the game mode has just gotten so stale

[gleaming sentinel]

Fighting bots pretty popular in league too, lots of people just wanna get their epic gear and blow stuff up

[potent pivot]

in pve they get brand new dungeons and raids constantly so things stay feeling more fresh and new

i bet if they started doing like monthly tourneys or something it'd be pretty dope

not awc level tourneys, just smaller ones for in game rewards or somethin

[formal pebble]

An insane amount of people do delves and follower dungeons too

As thier only content

[potent pivot]

yea

lots of people play the game as solo as possible

or with only a friend or two

[hardy hemlock]

Hey guys, for pvp (blitz), do you think getting crimson tempest is worth it?

[potent pivot]

yes

if you end up in a multi target fight whatsoever its very good

its not like sub's black powder

you cast it on 2+ targets, or even 1 target if you can also hit a pet

[hardy hemlock]

this is my current build, I feel it could be a bit better

Thanks for the info

[potent pivot]

thats about it

builds are mostly pretty cut n dry

the only thing assa really swaps around on the spec tree is KB+MA for Doomblade+SBS, but running KB in blitz is more than fine

especially if you happen to be running the FB build

[hardy hemlock]

indiscriminate carnage is also something I am not so sure about, but in a blitz context it's very useful

[potent pivot]

ye its also great even for 2t situations

[hardy hemlock]

is fatebound still the way to go after nerf ?

[gleaming sentinel]

I'd really love for them to experiment more with brawls, and make the brawls like a huge way to get conquest. be cool to try weird shit like 2v2 double dps shuffle etc

[hard compass]

is hemotoxin worth if we dont need dismantle?

[potent pivot]

you run hemo most of the time even with disarm

[hard compass]

over bomb?

[narrow finch]

what build are you pros running in shuffle

[grave basin]

@sick wasp in pve do you fok over 2 targets whilst maintaining caustic?

[sick wasp]

deathstalker of FB?

[grave basin]

DS

[sick wasp]

Generate Combo Points Combo Points with Fan of Knives if Clear the Witnesses is active
Generate Combo Points Combo Points with Fan of Knives on 2+ Targets, otherwise use Mutilate

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/assassination/rotation-cooldowns-pve-dps

yes its 2+

press fok if ctw is active

u will also maintain caustic coz its extra dmg ''flurring''

u also get dmg from singular focus out of that so u do all of them

there is a priority list of stuff for aoe,spatter is high one

[spring bough]

alright boys. what are some good cooks we can come up with for the potential APEX talents

what would be some of the sickest powerups to our abilities

[empty copper]

is there any pvp guide for rotation

idk when to use envenom , im feral main so i usually go for garrote , rupture and crimson tempest to get all bleeds rolling

[jolly sierra]

when you already dot up and u dont have to do another thing with the combo points

[spring bough]

first lobby of the day get to the last 2 rounds boomy hasnt won a game..... annnndddd he leaves

RIP 4-2 for the 1950

[empty copper]

i see, its just i feel like i never manage to get time to press envenom

and ive seen some assa rogues get like 5m envenoms when mine only hit for 1.5m

[raven terrace]

yo guys, how much am i supposed to stack vers on assa rogue

i currently have 37% vers on it

[empty copper]

idk notting is dying

[jolly sierra]

deathstalker have most powerful envenoms

and you must prioritize dots as biggest damage source

[potent pivot]

Generally like 20-25%

It’s s3 so we have hella secondary stats, but 37 sounds pretty high

[potent pivot]

It’s basically the same as the pve guides

Envenom is just filler once you have your bleeds rolling

[late oriole]

I've been pvping as sub rogue for two days and have not had more toxicity in this game than I've had in Arena Skirmish lmao

[raven terrace]

alright so since i have vers mastery on most of my gear i should take crit instead of vers on some of it right?

[potent pivot]

Do you have crafted pvp gear?

And tier set?

[raven terrace]

i have 3 pieces of pvp gear

no i have no tier set items lol

[lean prawn]

Hi guys, as assa rogue now after the 33% nerf of the coin, better DS or FB in pvp?

[late oriole]

What would y'all say is the most straightfoward spec to pvp as? I switched from outlaw, what I main in pvp, because I was told sub had better returns

[potent pivot]

DS is a bit better if you’re still on 2p, still remains to be seen which is better with 4p

Both are viable, DS is just a bit harder to play optimally for some people

[lean prawn]

Im playing basically only solo shuffle and rated bg, before the nerf i really loved the combo with cold blood and kingsbane

[potent pivot]

Get tier set and some crafted pvp items like rings/neck etc, that will lower the vers a bit

[lean prawn]

but now im stacked at 1700 rating , and idk how improve myself

[potent pivot]

Well ye everyone did, it was broken

If you’re still kinda newer/learning just stick to FB

If you’re already pretty comfortable with the spec and pvp then try DS

[lean prawn]

What do you think of skillcapped? can be useful?

[lean prawn]

have you some decent build for solo shuffle as DS assa?

[potent pivot]

Pins

[potent pivot]

Idk I’ve never paid for it just watched the YT vids back in the day

[lean prawn]

pins?

[potent pivot]

ye the channel pins

[abstract stratus]

are we running lingering or symbolic on ds sin rogue? cant tell what gives better value with tier

[raven terrace]

should have looked at the gearing guide before buying all this bs 😭

[potent pivot]

yeh there's one in the Threads of this channel, though it only covers week 1 purchases atm

[raven terrace]

yeah i just saw it

but im 2k conquest down the drain already

[potent pivot]

either is fine really, i don't think either is going to tip the scales of cheesing a kill atm. prolly just symbolic

[potent pivot]

.<

it's not too difficult to recorrect

[raven terrace]

how so

[potent pivot]

just fix it over the coming weeks

[raven terrace]

yeah

i was thinking of just rolling another rogue atp

[potent pivot]

your gear isn't going to hold you back really tbh

[raven terrace]

yeah i dont feel particularly gear checked during arenas so far

just a knowledge gap since im new to pvp

[halcyon timber]

That’s a good positive outlook honestly. Knowledge will come dude don’t sweat it

[worthy tinsel]

You only learn by doing, right? So you're halfway there!

I started this expac (rateds, at least). Made a few gearing mistakes too. It shouldn't affect much.

[lone cypress]

did you get any feedback? same question

im addicted to outlaw purely for the grappling hook and casino button mashing, but Im trying to commit to one spec for pvp and am a pretty big noob in terms of pvp

[gleaming sentinel]

its hard to say which to play, rogue is complex. You're best just focusing on one you enjoy the most and working out the kinks

[halcyon field]

Hi, as sub in which situation it should be used Kriss, cuz i am not sure pls

[halcyon timber]

Rogue in general is difficult by nature. Pick which spec resonates with you the most.

[sharp sierra]

No it’s horrible. The guides are 99% outdated and half their info is from looking at murlok at whatever time they write the tier lists

UI weakauras are also dogshit, just a glorified basic ui

[halcyon timber]

Is that a pve item?

[late oriole]

I haven't but I think I will switch back to Outlaw for PVP

I've always done Outlaw/Combat but found it didn't perform very well last season pvp wise but it's ultimately "my spec" so might as well stick with it

[lean prawn]

Any good site, or player on yt?

[lean prawn]

Maybe outlaw it's one of the hardest to master on pvp

[late oriole]

I've mained rogue for a long time so I'd prefer to not have a separate class for my PVP main. But it's definitely been a frustrating learning curve. PVE is fine for me, incredibly addicting as Outlaw.

[lone cypress]

for world pvp shenanagins and bg autonomy, are there any clear leaders of the specs? it seems like outlaw doesnt have near as many "tools" as the others

[halcyon field]

nope

this one

@halcyon timber

[halcyon timber]

Oh Shiv

Yes lots of good uses for it

[dreamy marten]

is there a better preference, im starting to do solo shuffle/solo rbg, should i do deathstalker or fatebound to ease into it?

[steep loom]

Did they just recently make it where cold blood affected the whole KS or has it been like this for awhile? Cause i remember awhile ago, before the ks change, cold blood would only make the very first strike crit, then fall off

[halcyon field]

do u have the list of ?

[halcyon timber]

I can describe some interactions for you

[halcyon field]

yes pls

cuz i randomly use shiv

[late oriole]

What's the opener for Outlaw in PVP, does it differ at all from PVE?

[potent pivot]

entirely up to you man

[late oriole]

I feel like I should work in a cheap shot

Stealth > RTB > AR > Cheap Shot > Between the Eyes > RNGJesus Time?

[potent pivot]

how you open is so situational

like whether or not you want to stun and which target etc

[late oriole]

I practice my rotation on the arena dummy's then go into arena skirmish and it's info overload

[halcyon timber]

• Used to de-enrage warriors mainly but also applies a concentrated form of your non lethal poison (crippling as standard) .

• It can be used to slow people around from line of sight or escaping smoke bomb (if you chose to do so)

• can be used to slow EFCs and such or delay healers from “getting there”

• can be used to slow people using terrain (example someone gets blasted off a ledge in the Cage of Carnage or in Nokhud arena and you can chain together a well timed blind and sap etc (really really “it depends” uses for all of it)

[potent pivot]

just pick the one you like, they all have quite similar utility kits

[potent pivot]

you usually want to BF once the gates open -> stealth -> rtb etc

[late oriole]

good point good point

[potent pivot]

not sure if the bug around ADR/stealth has been fixed so you might want to be using ADR after coming out of stealth atm

[late oriole]

ADR breaks my stealth currently I feel like it didn't do that last patch? Is that a bug?

I thought maybe it was a design decision

[potent pivot]

it did do that last patch ye

if you're targeting someone and in range, ADR flips a coin and that'll break stealth

[potent pivot]

/cast Adrenaline Rush
/cast Ghostly Strike```

pretty sure this is what everyone should be using atm to avoid the ADR/stealth bugs

[empty copper]

can anyone give me pvp build for assa solo shuffle then

cause murk.io and check.pvp are down

[halcyon timber]

They are in the pins, the boys made them.

[late oriole]

returning to Outlaw already having better resutls in arena skirmish

gotta stick with what you know I guess

[empty copper]

which one is stronger

[late oriole]

I think a rogue, specifically outlaw, rework is coming in Midnight

[empty copper]

fatebound or deathstalker

[late oriole]

I am running FB Outlaw

I'd only run DS on sub

[potent pivot]

atm DS is a bit better if you only have 2p

[late oriole]

you can't run DS on Outlaw?

[potent pivot]

harder to play it well

no

[late oriole]

It's just trickster and FB?

[potent pivot]

mhm

he's asking about assa

[late oriole]

ah nvm my bad

[empty copper]

I Am yeah

i got 1 tier piece so far

[late oriole]

I'd say I'm decent enough with Outlaw to do fine in BG Blitz but my queue times are through the roof

Hard to wait in a 30 minute queue only to go on a losing streak

[potent pivot]

then just play DS for now, still waiting to see which is better with 4p

[halcyon timber]

Gotta stop and take a break bro

[potent pivot]

just make sure you are playing DS properly if you're going to play it

compared to just playing FB

otherwise just better to run FB tbh

[empty copper]

well my problem is with assa atm that i cant figure out what to press envenom or crimson

[lean prawn]

With DS i don't want to play with kingsbane usually right? I need to play with crimson tempest and the most of the burst come from?

[potent pivot]

CT on 2 or more targets, including pets

but CT is a bleed, you don't spam it

so if everything is bled, you envenom

[potent pivot]

no. both builds are in the pins.

FB build has KB, DS build doesn't

CT is not a source of 'burst' either though no

[empty copper]

thanks

how do you use kingsbane aswell

im really sorry for so many questions

feral main trying assa for 1st time

like do i apply all bleeds into deathmark kingsbane or

[lean prawn]

I was wondering because usually when I see a target below half health in shuffle and I can control the healer and do a smokebomb, with the KB and Cold Blood macro I can usually kill them. With DS and without KG I feel like I have less control

[lean prawn]

yeah me too, sorry NoTrickz if i break your ball 🙁

[potent pivot]

i'd highly recommend reading through like the wowhead pve rotational priority rules

[spring bough]

sin+law pvpers meet keys XD

[potent pivot]

most of them translate over

[potent pivot]

with the FB build you shouldn't be using CB on KB itself

you use the FB talent that makes CB only apply to envenom

[lean prawn]

Really? i saw Jfarm on yt use CB on Kingsbane, with the other talent, but maybe im wrong, i need to test it

[potent pivot]

since the coin damage nerf its probably viable to cb your kb, but i'm pretty sure the extra coin dmg still outweighs the extra kb initial hit dmg

[potent pivot]

i have no idea who that is

[potent pivot]

one of the most important things running FB is trying to proc the capstone buff, lucky coin

thats going to happen way less and less reliably without the CB envenom talent

just sounds troll af to me

[lean prawn]

No, im not trolling

i just copy a list of talents as a noob

don't understand good the mechanic

[potent pivot]

no i'm saying the guy you're talking about is trolling if he's running the other talent

especially once we have 4p, proc'ing lucky coin as much as possible is going to be very important

[lean prawn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NDNfnQfFts&t=240s the end of the video with the talent

[potent pivot]

this is old