pvp

[potent pivot]

have fun clicking their frame

[stoic spruce]

ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

and blizz wants to get rid of it

kinda jokes

[potent pivot]

they said nothing about that type of addon

[stoic spruce]

yeah I know

but its up their alley

[potent pivot]

without something like this or Framesort

you'd have to do /cast [@PlayerName]

[stoic spruce]

thanks mate

[outer sky]

5m execute wtf

[jolly sierra]

i will give up as ret when i try to bop someone at 50 percent

they fkn dies in 1 second wtf

[dark kernel]

I just mathed out that crate farming will take 40 hours straight to gear one character

Not counting weapons

That's insane

[potent pivot]

huh?

where are you getting this math

[stoic spruce]

his ass

[dark kernel]

You add up the total conquest needed for a full set of gear, minus weapons. Then you just divided by 60, then divided further by 15

Comes out to exactly 40 hours, or 160 crates

[potent pivot]

160 crates

[dark kernel]

Four crates per hour

[potent pivot]

l0l

that is where you went wrong

[dark kernel]

I didn't think crate farming groups could get you to get spawns faster do people manipulate that somehow

[potent pivot]

no

crates respawn every 18 minutes

you can get 5 every 18 minutes

[dark kernel]

Hmm?

[potent pivot]

minimum with a good group is like 20 crates an hour

that would be 8 hours

[dark kernel]

Interesting, I was under the impression that one crate spawned in the entire game per 15 minutes

[potent pivot]

i've full geared chars in less than 8

like 6 or so

[dark kernel]

Nutty. Don't know if I would do it more than once tho

[potent pivot]

yeah that's not how it works

you can go from zone to zone

and get every zone's crate

sometimes you lose a crate because you run into an enemy faction raid

because it's all about your zone shards

but every 18 minutes a crate will spawn in each zone, thought these 18 minute timers are staggered

so if you have a shard for all zones, you can have each zone on that 18min timer

you use a mage after each crate to port everyone back to Dorn

so that they can head to the next zone

and you set your hearth to the inn in hallowfall so you don't miss that crate

this is how the crate farm raid groups work

if your group is REALLY good you can get 6 crates every 18min

but that is pretty rare

[stoic spruce]

typically looks like when I die

double dps is so aids

but its better than shuffle

[loud orchid]

still have another vanish

[stoic spruce]

yeah

[languid ravine]

Look at me going 2-4; 500 rating below my main, same as the 400k dps ARMS WARRIOR who did 60% of my DPS and put everything on Stun DR amazing wow and the worst part is I have to put on two Alumimniumun Hats on at the same time. Are there bots? was it Wintrading? did they let their Shiba Inu play for them? Mysterious

[loud orchid]

😛

[stoic spruce]

CC chained though subt and then died because fear doesnt break

[languid ravine]

ISNT OUTLAW FUN

[loud orchid]

and then your teammate gets mad, right?

cause you should live mor

[stoic spruce]

nah hes my buddy

[loud orchid]

oh fair

im working on getting into pvp and unfortunately i love outlaw 🤠

[stoic spruce]

dont

idiot

[loud orchid]

yeahhh

[stoic spruce]

its a mistake

[loud orchid]

so ive been learning

blitz has been fun at least

[stoic spruce]

this si the only time in combat/outlaw history I wouldnt recommend it

[loud orchid]

lmao

[stoic spruce]

and ive played since o4

[loud orchid]

great timing on my part as always

sadly already spent my tokens on these so id have to work on getting more conq for other spec weps

[languid ravine]

lol its exactly the same reason I m playing Outlaw right now this moment

[stoic spruce]

same lol

assa stonks next season tho

[potent pivot]

surely they revert the RB nerf guys

[stoic spruce]

SURELY

[potent pivot]

right, surely

[loud orchid]

the thing ive been struggling with is finding info on pvp. ive done a ton of mythic raiding in the past and have had no issues with finding resources/info

this is... new to me

[stoic spruce]

[potent pivot]

pvp is a lot of learning through experience

you can always ask questions here if you'd like

[loud orchid]

yeah i think it's just cause im new to pvp and rogue just kind of in general that it's a slight struggle

lots of angry teammates in solo shuffle is funny though

[stoic spruce]

something about Blizz makes me think they'll play with the idea of Restless Blades being a cooldown

[loud orchid]

so if outlaw aint it, what is?

[stoic spruce]

assa or sub

[loud orchid]

i see i see. is there a situation where youd prefer one over the other? assuming what i enjoy is rbgs/blitz

[potent pivot]

outlaw is good on flag maps

but you can't really choose what to play for specific blitz maps

[languid ravine]

playing your normal Damage Rotation on Outlaw is like wow you press 2x more buttons for 0.5x the damage of other classes

[potent pivot]

this is funny btw, because we still saw outlaw in the awc finals this week

so people are still sorta making it work

[languid ravine]

and if you drop Adrenaline for even 30 sec you are energy starved for the rest of the entire battleground

[loud orchid]

hmmmm

[potent pivot]

outlaw mains are just unhappy (quite understandably so) with the recent nerf to CDR in pvp

[loud orchid]

what was the recent nerf?

[potent pivot]

it was weeks ago

CDR was nerfed from 1sec per combo point spent to .8s

but imo its still a viable spec

[stoic spruce]

only in arenas

[potent pivot]

just feels ass to play to people that have played it for a long time

[languid ravine]

how is that a thing

[stoic spruce]

lets not pretend outlaw is worth the gamble for ctf

[potent pivot]

it is

even in bg tourneys they use outlaw for ctf maps

[stoic spruce]

but then they dont have it

a ctf map

and it sucks

aids spec

[potent pivot]

nature of the game ye

i don't think it sucks as bad as you're letting on

its still a rogue

[stoic spruce]

which is why I specified arenas

itll always be good in arena

[potent pivot]

thats really the most important thing in blitz, the util

[stoic spruce]

yeahhh

[loud orchid]

yeah and blitz/rbgs is kind of all i really care to do

[potent pivot]

as long as you can live, spin nodes and back cap

[loud orchid]

ive always found arenas cause me too much stress lmao

[stoic spruce]

outlaw in a bg setting makes my face hot

like there're hot needles poking me

[potent pivot]

the bg setting makes my face hot

[stoic spruce]

real

[potent pivot]

like i'm walking on hot coals and nails standing straight up

[stoic spruce]

and I rub my face a lot when im stressed so my nose gets rubbed raw

[loud orchid]

that's how i feel for arenas 🤣

[potent pivot]

arena is like home

[stoic spruce]

real

[loud orchid]

in arenas, i struggle with figuring out who to target

in bgs, im generally told to sit a node and just throw hands with whomstever arrives

and if im 1v2 in bgs, im dead anyways so target swapping doesnt matter 😄

[languid ravine]

I have a new conspiracy theory: Blizz now puts an Arms Warrior Bot and a Ret Paladin Bot in the same lobby everytime, and they are testing us Lab-Humans how long we need to figure it out

you know whats funny too the warrior bots have the same opener as humans, heroic leap, die by the sword, die

[loud orchid]

for the elemental focusing lens, does the enduring bloodstone count?

[languid ravine]

no sadly

[potent pivot]

has to be one of the new secondary stat gems

onyx/ruby/emerald/sapphire etc

[marble oasis]

really dumb question, what is technically the fastest way of honor farming is it just default what ever brawl is up?

[potent pivot]

the only brawl that is actually good in Comp Stomp

are you trying to farm honor for sockets?

[marble oasis]

That and just generally honor level

[potent pivot]

ah

honor level is a tough one these days

[languid ravine]

the best way probably is join a premade epic BG, where you stroke the ego of a cult leader and conspire to ruin the game for everyone else

[potent pivot]

comp stomp, BGs, epic BGs or just queuing rated

[languid ravine]

by ganging up 20v1 in a fair game of look at meeee

[marble oasis]

yeh i heard there was a way of abusing it before but alas i'll have to do it the standard way 😛

[potent pivot]

well, there are a couple ways

[marble oasis]

i'll have to do some testing see what works best on average per hour and go from there. as man i need that 250lvl mount T.T

[potent pivot]

the main one requires paying boosters gold, which is about ~6k honor per hour

[stoic spruce]

Lowkey

[languid ravine]

raw honor farm is kinda meh, in my experience the best is weekly pvp quests + blitz/shuffle and getting lucky on the daily battleground bonuses

[potent pivot]

i don't know what method they use

[stoic spruce]

Tight spender has been nice with HO

[languid ravine]

if you get unlucky in unranked it is very slow too

[marble oasis]

i guess it would be an excuse for sticking out rated blitz this time

but i agree it's meh to farm honor just more something to do long term goal wise

[potent pivot]

yeh

it usually takes years to get high honor level

back in the day there were cheese methods

and they raised everyone's honorlevel at one point iirc by nerfing the system or something

[loud orchid]

sadge

[languid ravine]

btw any Outlaw pros in chat?

what do you macro Tricks of the Trade together with?

[stoic spruce]

I do cheap

[languid ravine]

I m thinking BTE Killing Spree and Adrush

[marble oasis]

yeh that's what i'm expecting xD

appreciate the input

[potent pivot]

i've never seen anyone macro tricks

[stoic spruce]

Since it's like, the first global of their go

[potent pivot]

[stoic spruce]

Yeah I haven't done it since SL

There's no reason to

[languid ravine]

I m not manually clicking that crap

[stoic spruce]

Bind it

Be a man

[potent pivot]

put it on kidney i guess?

[stoic spruce]

Tf is wrong with you

[potent pivot]

same cd

[stoic spruce]

Trickz

Check it out

[potent pivot]

Poopoo

[stoic spruce]

Who am I?

[potent pivot]

Merce?

[stoic spruce]

I'm literally everyone playing solo shuffle

And blitz

[potent pivot]

Not everyone

Healer’s qs pop in .1s

[stoic spruce]

I had such a scuffed match that my pistol shot was second in damage

Guess what my #1 was

[potent pivot]

Melee

[stoic spruce]

Ambush

[potent pivot]

[stoic spruce]

Still won though

Thanks to ret existing

[marble oasis]

just casually looking up honor farming and this bastard walks past me

[potent pivot]

Some folks have 1k+

I think pikaboo has one of the highest honor levels legitimately farmed

[marble oasis]

yeh i've seen a few 1k just funny the timing

[languid ravine]

another 0-6 healer

thats like 6 out of 8 today

its really hard not to become a conspiracy nut these days

and you know the worst part

the reason he went 0-6 is because all other three dps in my lobby were braindead zugheads

[marble oasis]

honestly why i stopped doing shuffle

[languid ravine]

completely ignoring the healpala freecasting glaze and repentence every single global

[halcyon timber]

Sounds pretty standard

[languid ravine]

anuther 0-6 healer

prbably just a coincidence

or maybe its a fallout of blizzard "fixing the mmr system to be less predictable" or whatever they said

[halcyon timber]

Yeah frustrating when that happens . Wonder what happens “generally” in lobbies like that on an analytical series of measurements.

• team mates greeded cds
• team didn’t peel / cc as a team
• no covering
• positioning
• playing too safe vs aggro appropriately
  Etc

[languid ravine]

one round I died with 2 seconds cooldown on vanish

restless blades says hi

[outer sky]

I just did 2.8m damage to this guy in 0.1s

[potent pivot]

fb

[hidden moth]

wgat is this lobby

new map is actualy aids

chasing people around los

bc everything in it is fucking los

[potent pivot]

I don’t like it much either

You can do some sneaky los stuff yourself on it too though

[hidden moth]

was to busy being raped by poly

[languid ravine]

I ve lost like 10 rounds there due to one thing only: falling off randomly just from walking

love it though 10/10

[hidden moth]

heal games are annoying rn

spriest disperses at 17% vs a fucking ww and wonders why he died

[halcyon timber]

Because you told me to drill sgt - Forest Gump

[loud orchid]

so far ive just gotten yelled at to CC more when kidney, blind, gouge, and cheap shot have all been used 😦

[halcyon timber]

Don’t sweat it man and ignore the bums

[loud orchid]

oh i do dont worry

i find it hilarious

[halcyon timber]

Heh

[loud orchid]

theyre like "omg youre so bad" and im like "i know... and?"

[halcyon timber]

I just turn chat off man, im not risking a ban with that bs

[loud orchid]

then they say some more nice things that ~~might ~~ would get me banned here

[halcyon timber]

Yeah def careful

[loud orchid]

so i may consider trying out assa or sub over outlaw. however... all of my gear is essentially haste/vers. from what ive seen, sub/assa dont care much for haste. how bad is it compared to other stats? since obvi i cant sim

[potent pivot]

you can still do it but its meh

[loud orchid]

that's unfortunate lol

i just cant seem to keep up in damage with others if i try and do arenas which sucks

i mean im also bad which is probably related, but im not that bad

[potent pivot]

rogue in general just does less damage than most classes right now

[loud orchid]

i see

[errant ibex]

yall know any chads for plater scripting? i had an idea but idk where to start lol

[potent pivot]

most pvpers don't use plater

what is the idea?

might already exist

[errant ibex]

dr tracking, high light the border green when no stun dr, yellow when half dr and red when immune to stun

[potent pivot]

there are other ways to track DRs

[errant ibex]

yes but that way seems eaiser for me as a pve'er

[potent pivot]

using color for the actual plates just for stun DR specifically is just meh

[errant ibex]

not color boarder highlight

[potent pivot]

same thing

if you really want to get better at pvp, you gotta keep track of all DRs not just 1 type

[halcyon timber]

Just wait for proposed blizz auras

[potent pivot]

[halcyon timber]

[potent pivot]

color changing plates won't even be a thing if all that comes to fruition

[halcyon timber]

it will totally be the same surely with just as much customization and ish

[loud orchid]

okay this might be because im new to pvp

but

are ratings spec based?

[potent pivot]

in solo brackets ye

[loud orchid]

say sike rn

[potent pivot]

nop

[loud orchid]

😦

[potent pivot]

you have to start from 0 with each spec

[gleaming sentinel]

This sent me, ngl

[loud orchid]

literally sobbing

i just want that eel

im glad my pain sent you 😌

[gleaming sentinel]

I think 1k is only a couple wins now, no?

[loud orchid]

yeah it's a couple

been on a losing streak today tho which has already been meh

hit 1500 and my next 5 games were losses

[gleaming sentinel]

Just a go next angle, you can do it

[loud orchid]

well my last game was a win tbf

battle for gilneas sub 6 min win

it was really funny. our hunter sat LH, i went mines, everyone else went WW. there were 5 people - including a healer - trying to kill me at mines. i just kept grappling and shooting. i knew if they saw me, they wouldnt give up. they, in fact, did not give up

[halcyon timber]

The amount of times you can max range in a smoke bomb hucking rocks at dumb dumb classes to pull out the win is staggering

[loud orchid]

it's kinda wild

like the outlaw rogue that's sitting at range having their AR go on CD is not a problem

[hidden moth]

Tell them to cc this and call em a slur

[errant ibex]

bruh does every fuckign rogue pray to god for a goddamn dispel or freedom in solo shuffle?

[halcyon timber]

Yep

[errant ibex]

i feel liek im for ever in fuckign roots doing nothing

holyshit

[hidden moth]

[halcyon timber]

Welcome to rogue where other classes get to dictate your suffering while they cry about cheap shot and make up things out of their asshole about rogue fairy tales of shit that didn’t happen

[hidden moth]

Wtb kidney being its own dr again

[halcyon timber]

Ha

[errant ibex]

i was just in a game where our priest was getting railed and the dk was just running down the mage and i had the hpally at 50% with no outs and he had nothing like, like fuckign thingk and sawp holy shit

[hidden moth]

Cheap cheap cheap full kid

[errant ibex]

nothing left*

[hidden moth]

Only reason I play classic is the 10 second stun locks

[loud orchid]

you didnt say sike right now

[errant ibex]

no buble, no loh, no bop, no trinket that is a free kill

[halcyon timber]

Expecting people to use any sense of rational thought is forbidden man

[errant ibex]

damn, my bad

[hidden moth]

In game and at work

[halcyon timber]

Unga bunga simulator prevails and is somehow your fault the paladin doesn’t bop on your team / mage doesn’t block / no one follows up cc

[halcyon timber]

Lol yeah. Fuckin a man . Fuckin aaaaa.

[errant ibex]

i should just level a warrior lmao

make life easy

[halcyon timber]

Kek do as you wish. If you’re happy then that is all that matters truly

[errant ibex]

im just salty from fighting mages and shamans and just standing around with my thumb up my ass

[halcyon timber]

XD sounds about right

[errant ibex]

can feral stil powershift out of roots?

that may be the play

lmao

[halcyon timber]

Some unga bunga will leap around a corner and get smoked by a shadow priest then say healer diff and shit

[errant ibex]

lmao

[halcyon timber]

Yeah feral can

Ignore slows / roots / poly

[errant ibex]

funny thing about this every time i ahd the dk on the other team i opened on him around the corner and got him so low and teh other dude is fighting in the streets 1v1 the other dps lol

[halcyon timber]

Nothing to see there, just standard jackass factory tactics

[errant ibex]

so low may be an exaration cuz everything still feels like its moving pretty fast cuz im not used ot the pace yet

[halcyon timber]

You’ll get the hang of it man. No sweat

[errant ibex]

i need like 1k more conquest for my weapon tokens

and SS takes FOREVER lmao

i may get there before next week

[halcyon timber]

Crates and quests for sure

Weekly pvp and stuff etc

Seasonal reset on ashran and wintergrasp quest is handy too

[loud orchid]

tried out assa. did more damage with less work

🥲

[halcyon timber]

Its amazing when you get ccd more than healers heh

[loud orchid]

my last match was me halfway afk and dealing more damage than everyone else

[potent pivot]

i am sensing a menty b

[stoic spruce]

stay there

[errant ibex]

1814 SS

roots may be the death of me lmao

[loud orchid]

im working on a phd so im already there

[loud orchid]

it's so funny to see sudden demise proc

theyre just there and then not

[loud orchid]

i already miss grapple 😦

[exotic dove]

You know lol it is pretty funny. Been playing so much Sub lately that I might have to do some assa again to see it myself

[hidden moth]

assa is using shoulder chest, then helm pants? for tier

[gleaming pawn]

yes the gloves are trash

[errant ibex]

so if im doing 2s just for conq, as a rogue i should just play with a bursty class that can basically do the dmg and i just keep the other dude (as much as i can) out of the game?

[hidden moth]

why do people que as tanks

why

prot pals think they are fcs in bgb

why

[gleaming pawn]

because Blizzard is stupid and still allows this backwards shit to this day

makes the tanks take a ton more damage in a pvp match to help get around them being a tank, instead of just not allowing the role the queue up

it makes zero sense

[stoic spruce]

shoutout to this rogue

I judge tf out of other outlaw rogues I see

[hidden moth]

Ewww

Combat rogues

[hidden moth]

This but also

Just ban tank specs

Can’t do my job as rogue by soloing efc while he is sneak grabbing flag in our base while they clash mid

If he has infinite heals 😭😭😭

[grave basin]

got it bb

did it as brew KEK

[potent pivot]

That or with a healer, which is probably the best bet especially if learning

[stoic spruce]

agreed

[grave basin]

just do double dps 2s for fastest conq

either rog mage or rog hunt

drop to like 1.2k mmr

[stoic spruce]

Dps 2s as rogue low-key throwing tbh

[grave basin]

it's way faster conq/hour than healer dps 2s

especially at low mmr when it's double dps vs double dps

below 1500mmr are just yolo conquest farming groups

[potent pivot]

i guess i could see that

faster games regardless of win or lose

[stoic spruce]

RAHHHH

Tricks

This shit fokin minging innit?

[potent pivot]

u wot m8

[grave basin]

cmon..

[stoic spruce]

RAHHHHHHH OUTLAW IS THE BEST

but not when I drop ar

and get no ace procs

[verbal field]

requeue after 20 mins

[grave basin]

It popped

3x ranged lobby

0 6

[stoic spruce]

@potent pivot you ever try to carry a n00b as outlaw since the nerf?

[potent pivot]

i have barely played any law in pvp since the nerf

[stoic spruce]

unironically the hardest 1600 I've ever experienced lol

[potent pivot]

too mad

[stoic spruce]

well im a one trick

[potent pivot]

you've played the other specs

[stoic spruce]

...

maybe

just a little

[potent pivot]

at least you said you were gonna

i've mostly been playing other games lately

[stoic spruce]

I played assa in 2s for 3 matches and said nope

I recently bought sea of thieves

cant believve I havent bought it sooner

[potent pivot]

i've thought about buying some recent releases

but i always end up back on some form of mmo

[verbal field]

🥶

[stoic spruce]

I swapped imp ambush for tight spender and it's made a world of difference

[grim forum]

this shit cant be real

how do you fight a disc priest as a rogue?

cuz i swear they are unkillable. i know im shit at PVP but even with my limited experience i know that a single person shouldnt be able to tank 4 people full cooldowns and never go below 40% hp

like i just watch them spam 3 moves

and never ever die

can someone please explain the strat against Disc

[glass hazel]

Just cc them, when they low they will fly away as well

[grim forum]

so just stun lock and ignore

got it

do you look to kick penance?

or no?

[grave basin]

A good healer can easily outlive 2+ DPS with no dampening

Your best bet is just full kidney into as much dam as poss

But then again. They can ps in stuns

[grim forum]

ok got it

thanks for the response

what is the PvP opener for Sub when Flagellation and SB are on Cd.

so when you open with only Shadow Dance and Symbols

is it shadow strike > Kidney, shadowstrike > Eviscerate, shadowstrike > Secret Tech, Cheapshot chain etc

[hidden moth]

Disc can’t fly away

That’s holy

[glass hazel]

Oh sorry for disinfo

[hidden moth]

Gl on that, penance gets me precog for FREE

1 or 2 bolt /4 that shit and cancel cast see how fast that fucking kick comes in and gives me free cc immune

9/10 times the cancel cast pen or ult pen is freee precog

[grim forum]

So what do you look to kick to actually hurt the priest?

[proper heath]

has the greater horrific enchants come out?

[candid tide]

dang whaazz won again

this guy gonna be the kelly slater of wow arena

[broken otter]

Should be out today (tomorrow EU), buts that's like literally all I know about it.

[jolly sierra]

you cant lfg here

[woven plume]

i did not see any channel for that sry

[grave basin]

any bois up to test greater corruptions

NA about to come up

[grave basin]

jk delayed 1 hour

[grave basin]

na up bois

[errant ibex]

So I was thinking about my games last night and watching some pikaboo on YouTube and I thinking about the things he's doing. Once you are good on your damage, is moving past the next wall learning how to identify opportunities?

I guess that's really a blanket statement for any class, but I feel like it's more important for rogue? Or would it be more like forcing those opportunities?

[wintry dew]

That's because we don't have any channel por that my friend priest

[spring bough]

I’ll be home in like 3 hours lol

[grave basin]

sleeping in 20 mins

once i get my greater corruption

[gleaming pawn]

Yes once you are good at putting down damage on demand, next is looking for opportunities to disrupt the enemy team and create openings to best apply your or your teams damage

[hazy monolith]

EU over 1800 lmao

[shell vortex]

Hey everyone, my smooth brain may be the cause, but I was unable to find a guide with recommended blitz talents and explanation on openers rotation etc for SUB, I got the most picked talents on murlok but being new to it I would've liked something more in depth. Can any of you point me in the right direction? Stuff I find on YouTube is pretty outdated or sus

[hazy monolith]

I have such a hard time on outlaw jesus.

[grave basin]

ayyye sleep time

[errant ibex]

Thanks man.

[agile kite]

Little tedtalk blog inc

I started playing sub, my damage was really bad at end of 2's matches so assumed that is why I couldn't kill anyone

Ended up asking Weedtyler for his opener, turns out I wasn't killing anyone not because of damage but lack of CC chaining

Got opener down, go into next 2's game and immediately blow someone up

WE ARE SO BACK

[verbal field]

is it impossible to kill a resto druid in a duel as assa?

[languid ravine]

its definitely possible when they are afk for like 10 seconds

[waxen meteor]

Damn, every now and then, playing sin in blitz gangbang is fun.

So getting used to solo/off cart tasks, got a game was addressed to team fight (lava train), was fun

[minor moss]

do you use thistle tea for the energy or just for mastery increase for sub ?

[potent pivot]

mastery during CDs, energy outside of CDs

you can try not to auto proc it from low energy outside of CDs, but you'll likely auto proc it unless you're used to it

[minor moss]

cool cool ty

[shell vortex]

so i've found this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8Z5iLI1zBw&t=626s

i'm wondering why he's using symbols during the opener before an eviscerate, despite still having the buff active from the "burst macro", and not even having symbolic victory talented 🤔 what am i missing here

[outer sky]

can we get our Greater Corruptions this week or is it timegated?

[gusty turtle]

you can get it

[outer sky]

thanks

[spring bough]

Can’t wait for greater twilight dev to be doing 2 mil minimum lol

[dark kernel]

Giving you an honest answer. I think he confuses the viewer because he starts the rotation with 2 points of blue CPs already which make the video clarity worse.

I think he's using symbols there to get 2 additional finishers, and for secret techniques

By using Symbols twice in one go, you get 4 blue CP finishers. He's using it after the second cheap for the following 2 eviscerates, it just confuses you because in the video he had 6, and normally wouldn't

[outer sky]

i tried it. didnt like it. it's hit field is too narrow

[spring bough]

Yeah it sucks when it misses but when it hits it smacks em lol

[outer sky]

i'm between void ritual and gushing wounds

[spring bough]

I just like watching the big void tornadoes run around lol

[potent pivot]

would stick to gushing or twilight

ritual is nerfed by like 75%

its not really a noticeable difference though, around .2% worse than the other 2 with 100% combat uptime

[shell vortex]

ahhhh i understand now, thanks

also i see you don't have to do the minigame anymore where you have to land on the blue cp, it just uses it now

(last time i played sub was in shadowlands)

[potent pivot]

correct

each blue point you see is just an indicator for how many charges of supercharger you have

every finisher you do with it active, it will just tack on +2 or +3 combo points

so like a 7cp finisher would be 10cp

etc

[shell vortex]

hold on, why 3? 👀

i thought the talent was +2

some interaction i'm missing?

[potent pivot]

forced induction talent

[shell vortex]

kk thx

[potent pivot]

the capstone right after the supercharger talent

[shell vortex]

ye ye totally forgot about it, i'm still messing around with stuff

thanks

[exotic dove]

Was at the doctors today and I decided while waiting to be seen, to see what people were putting on tier lists. What I did was take the consensus of all those I watched which were pretty much on everyones list in the same spot and take a picture. Apparently people think Assa is just as bad as Outlaw and the other bad melee

The others not mentioned were thrown randomly on the different tiers like DK

Reason I posted this is I am actually surprised non rogue players think Assa is C tier

[potent pivot]

to say that fury/law/assa are that bad is funny

and enhance? LOL

[stoic spruce]

Unholy is literally the worst melee in the game right now

[exotic dove]

Yeah I dont know what to say I thought I was living in the twilight zone watching this. Is Assa that hard for people ?

[potent pivot]

people love talking out of their asses making tier lists for content

at this point they are scummy

[exotic dove]

The sad thing is there are people that go buy these "tier lists"

*by

to dictate what they play

[stoic spruce]

Outlaw has never and will never be lower than S

Along with assa and sub

It's rogue

It's the only class in the game that could not do damage and still be good

But that's never the case anyway

Especially with sub rogue killing through bark

[exotic dove]

All the tier lists I watched today put Sub on A tier though so they do think Sub is good

They were funny to watch

I mostly put it in here for you guys to get a kick out of it

[stoic spruce]

It's fun to shit on lists tbh yeah

[exotic dove]

I do think thats the first time I see 2 rogues specs at the same time put in C tier though

that was surprising people usually hate us and put all 3 in S

[stoic spruce]

Assa at C tier

[exotic dove]

without a second thought

But yeah its fun to laugh at them

[stoic spruce]

Like I said, the class is just that good

They may hate us but they're def all S

[exotic dove]

My guess is people tried playing it got crapped on and then said its crap

[stoic spruce]

You can't have what rogue has and be bad

That's my guess too

[exotic dove]

I only had time to watch 4 lists though so

those 4 people got mad

[stoic spruce]

If their one-shot macro doesn't work, it's not good enough for them

Meanwhile I played Outlaw arenas last night and kept everyone locked down and had an omega winrate

That being said

Buff outlaw

It's not OP enough

[exotic dove]

Despite what I said above though if Sub me went against Assa me. The Sub version of me would completely destroy the Assa Version of me.

That doesnt mean Assa is C tier though

Different profiles

[stoic spruce]

The cleave is nutty, yeah

[minor moss]

void ritual vs gushing wounds whats the preference have void ritual now debating on changing

[glass hazel]

it is super nerfed 0.25 in pvp

[potent pivot]

gushing or twilight

[minor moss]

ty ty

[jolly sierra]

sub = rogue for them xdd

[gaunt egret]

How do you guys learn match ups?

And how do you decide to use cc? I feel the cc I put on the healers for pressure is not very effective

[potent pivot]

a big part of cc is just trying to make the other team fall behind on damage and healing

[stoic spruce]

When you CC is also important

[potent pivot]

so like if someone presses their offensive CD, either you or your healer trades something to keep you alive, or you CC them on their offensive CD

when you use your offensive CDs, you want people to be CCed so you can try to land a kill or get them to trade trinkets/defensive CDs etc

[gaunt egret]

I use nameplate cooldown addon to track offensives (If that's good). Another problem is I don't know what are the "of shit" cooldowns I need to be worried about.

[potent pivot]

the one that puts all their CDs over the nameplates?

that addon is ass

[spring bough]

9/9 mythic rogue set done boys

[potent pivot]

nice

[spring bough]

looking fly asf with mythic sword n fist wep mog too

[gaunt egret]

Oh really? Is omni bar better?

[potent pivot]

yeah

omnibar and Sweepyboop's pvp helper

[gaunt egret]

Thanks I'll try those

[stoic spruce]

What was the strat

[potent pivot]

full hero track gear -> catalyst and upgrade it

[spring bough]

converting items to tier hero level and off pieces too lol

got some good drops tho too

heroic raid helped

[spring bough]

you get the full heroic set doing it too

so 2 in 1 XD

[stoic spruce]

I meant the strat for hero gear

I know how the catalyst works lol

[spring bough]

in a 2400 rated blitz with an outlaw on my team

bout to go buy a lotto ticket

[spring bough]

do some keys too get some heroic drops to convert lol

[spring bough]

when a druid clones the main target when the dudes at like 20% and i got full buffs.........

unreal lol

[hidden moth]

what diff

gushiung is another bleed ya?

does it stack 2% dam from talent

[gleaming pawn]

It should not interact with Lethal Dose. It’s just a passive damage enchant and they are all the same damage average. You don’t need to do anything with Gushing where as you have to aim, and an enemy could avoid Twilight Dev

[potent pivot]

no

talents/abilities do not interact with items/enchants etc

[hidden moth]

set fire to the pain and ringing ritual mud

i rest my case

but since the enchant isnt interacting with the talents ill take its just pref

can twi dev proc off my dots? like im not in melee at all and i get a proc that hits 0 enemys bc i dotted them and got kited

[potent pivot]

all of the things have 1-2ppm and proc off of casting spells iirc

[warped gate]

So Twilight Devastation seems like ass, bois.

[potent pivot]

nah its fine

you have to hit it, but when you do it hits decently hard

[warped gate]

What do you mean by that? Can it miss?

[potent pivot]

yeah

[warped gate]

Huh.

[potent pivot]

its like a frontal

so if you aren't making sure to face your target then yeah it probably looks like shit

the procs do pretty nice damage

can't really miss procs when you're smacking someone thats sitting in a kidney/cheap/etc

[warped gate]

Ahhh, I just hit a dummy and saw it go off.

I can see how that can miss.

Does it do more damage if you don't hit multiples in the AoE? The wording kinda makes it seem like it shares the damage with all caught.

[potent pivot]

yes

oh, more dmg? idk

the procs are decent in ST

[warped gate]

Gotcha, thanks.

[warped gate]

NGL, I was liking the other ones better.

Looking at Details and I'm not impressed.

Gonna go back to the Tentacool and see how that works.

[potent pivot]

likely because you're missing too many

it hits like 1-2m with the greater version

only part that matters is when it goes off on the kill target and helps land kills

[dark kernel]

hurfff burrf

f

both my rogues keep farting around 2050

[warped gate]

This bitch-made Priest just rage quit because he was getting washed in multiple lobbies by the other healer.

Meanwhile I gotta sit for a year for my next one.

I gotta wait to test out this other enchant.

Oof.

We're the bottom spec out of all specs?

[glass hazel]

[warped gate]

[gleaming pawn]

I feel bad for Outlaw, but Rogue in general is the least played class by a good margin

or was the last I saw

[stoic spruce]

whatever you do, dont compare it to tank specs

[glass hazel]

got into win trading lobby gg heal afk each time with me and play well against

) what a life

[warped gate]

Oof.

I just had a lobby that was going well, I had a healer who was doing a decent job, and we had some good matches.

[stoic spruce]

I got into a bdk/boomy 2s lobby and honestly it was so much fun

ghostly strike into killing spree on bdk

[warped gate]

The melees just tunneled tf out of me and it wasn’t working, but then one round they lightly scuffed the hpal’s shoulder during a cleave and he lost like a zillion HP and they were like..

[stoic spruce]

swap to boomy after

[stoic spruce]

back on bdk with GS and killing spree

disarmed after

[warped gate]

And then proceeded to erase him from existence for the rest of the lobby.

[stoic spruce]

and then he died

GS/KS is the outlaw burst

funny

[outer sky]

What the fuck was this game. I cant tell if the disc priest's damage was really high or if the outlaw rogue's damage was really low. But the disc priest did way more damage than his rogue

[potent pivot]

Looks like a combined factor of both

[wanton breach]

maybe you controlled the outlaw too hard

[grim forum]

can one of you experienced Sub rogues tell me, when you dont have Blades and Flag up for big GO, what is your little GO rotation?

i have the big go down pat now, but i find myself lost after initial opener once i force CD's

i restealth and then i kinda just spam Shadow strikes and Evicerates with constant CC's in no particular order

please @ me so i dont miss your response! thank you!

[jaunty osprey]

SOMEHOW, I STILL MISS

SKILL ISSUE FR

[lone goblet]

This never would have happened to combat rogues.

The pirate life has been a failure.

[hidden moth]

Damn even buff bitch Aug doing better

[warped gate]

[warped gate]

That surprised me, tbh.

Literally a class that Blizzard said was a failure and they’re gonna abandon and rework.

[halcyon timber]

Those sobe lizards can hit hard

[rugged fractal]

Would you guys say sub or assa is better for trying to pug your way to glad?

[jaunty osprey]

Really depends on the comp you're going to pug/play

Sub rogue is a lot harder to play well

Assa is really squishy, but can win lower rated games easily if you know how to do damage

[severe helm]

yeup outlaw is awful rn

[severe helm]

assa has a looot more comp variety than sub

Sub requires your whole team to kinda play around the sub rogue kill window

assa functions a lot more like a regular dps

[potent pivot]

Was still in awc finals though

[severe helm]

Did it win though

Lol

[potent pivot]

Doesn’t really matter imo

[potent pivot]

[potent pivot]

It’s the same as the big go, but with only dance+symbols

Depending on CDR and your CD left on blades you can also Tech during your small goes usually

The only thing you really do in between dances is farm CDR

[rugged fractal]

Makes sense yea, since I don’t have a consistent team I’d definitely want to play the spec that has the most options for classes to play with. I like the multidot play style too

But finding it tough to win against teams that have better burst

[spring bough]

Is outlaw fun in PvP today

When restless blades revert happening

[gleaming sentinel]

Looking at outlaw shuffle stats, has anyone side of bodymassage hit elite after the nerfs?

[spring bough]

I’ve been working on it. Keep getting stalled in the 2200s

I’ll have a great lobby go 4-2 or 5-1 and then right after it’s a massacre for me lmao

3/4 of the time it’s my teammates dying on me too which is the most frustrating thing. Sitting here 100% health and my teammate just getting dropped like nothing

[gleaming sentinel]

Often sitting at most cc received I assume

[spring bough]

Yeah I’m by far the most CCd player every lobby I’m in. It’s actually disgusting

The one day I blew my trinket we got their DPS to like 10% thought we had it and then I sat in a clone, and then a full stun….. then roots after that yeah amazing times

Think a full fear too after all that. Was like 30 full seconds CC

[gleaming sentinel]

I just really feel the lack of adrenaline rush uptime in PvP. It feels so bad

[outer sky]

There are some comps that feel like they never run out of CC

Like

Demo lock ele sham

With a resto druid

I will be stunned and then when I'm on stun DR I'm CCd by other shit until I come off stun DR

[spring bough]

7 second unreadable fear is the most dog shit CC any class has. Warriors and locks

Plus locks have that horrified thing that’s a fear but not a fear idek

[outer sky]

"Horrify"

But demo lock will like

Stun with axe toss

Coil

Fear

[spring bough]

About to go undead so I can pop will of forsaken and then get feared 8x more after I use my racial

[outer sky]

Restun

[halcyon timber]

Yeah always been a separate DR. I think Sp had something similar back in the day when they could make us drop our weapon too.

[spring bough]

I think the only way blizz saves PvP and makes it fun again is a total CC overhaul. I feel like everyday I scan Reddit there’s another PvP post about how shitty CC is and how it makes people not want to play

[halcyon timber]

They won’t because the NuRf RoGuE shit posting goes up

Better to help the jackasses who want cc and don’t need it who don’t get taxed either ig

[potent pivot]

like how so

noobs complain about it

pvp isn't pvp with no CC

[spring bough]

I’ve seen more than noobs complain about it on Reddit lmao

[potent pivot]

its dps race simulator

[spring bough]

Yeah I’m not saying no CC

There’s just way too much CC compared to what it used to be

Give us some CC breakage back that type of stuff if they gonna have so much CC in the game

[potent pivot]

ye if anything they should revert the cc nerfs

[spring bough]

25 second kidney back all that

[potent pivot]

and just trim some of the bullshit micros

[halcyon timber]

“Let me training dummy people then the game is good” - apes

[halcyon timber]

We would lose subterfuge with zero compensation and kidney would get nerfed again before that would ever be considered

[dark kernel]

There's actually kind of less, it's just the game feels faster

[languid ravine]

some random data: FrostDK Blitz BG, did 550mil overall, in all combat logs Twilight devastation 0.3% to 0.5% somehow

actual trash

the greater one

[dark kernel]

They would need to make impactful damage less reliant on PvE rotation and bigger individual hits

Maybe extend CC again but lower the DR counter to 2 CCs

[potent pivot]

Twilight dev isn’t about the overall damage, it’s about more chunky procs helping land kills

But also blitz is just a bad place to look at samples

[hidden moth]

Blitz isn’t like arena 3v3 or shuffle

U can be okay at pvp but be godly at map knowledge and cc chains etc

And be high rating in blitz

Like having aim bot in marvel rivals but 0 map sense

U can have the best aim / damage rotation in the game but doesn’t mean much if ur sitting mid off point and dying instantly bc ur not positioning properly

[languid ravine]

I dont understand how blitz is a bad sample when I got like 6 minutes uptime and 5+ hittable targets

[languid ravine]

maybe its max 0.5% on less damage heavy classes and there is a good an equal chance it procs when you dont need it

[potent pivot]

because more AoE damage = enchants doing less %

and details is really weird on blitz

[languid ravine]

yea you right probably but still not noticeable :d

[potent pivot]

wdym

[spring bough]

pretty much

in all reality we are keyboad vs keyboard lolol

[halcyon timber]

XD

[languid ravine]

In Blitz you can be the Top DPS of my enemy team and deal MORE damage than all my other 5 DPS Players combined at 2200 mmr

after like 2 minutes

[spring bough]

pet peeve

when u got a disc and he dispells 0 CC like a fear or the asleep thing

and u sit in a full duration

lobby i just had..... got hit with 3 asleeps and 3 hexes the one round full duration priest wouldnt help.... GG

somehow still won lol

[hidden moth]

not every match u get max uptime and 5+ tar

tbh the only map u should have 5+ tar is orb map

[hidden moth]

priest cant cleanse hex

[spring bough]

i know theres a healer class that can clear that

[hidden moth]

esp as a rogue, ur job mostly isnt team fight its off carts and side objectives

[hidden moth]

rsham

need a decurse

[spring bough]

either way still sat in full asleeps from deva and full fears from lock with a priest on my team lol

[hidden moth]

legit shaman druid mage are the only decurse in game

aside from potential racial idr if dwarf decurses also evokers 1 min cd decurses

and ofc any full immunes bubble block etc

[hidden moth]

aff lock?

did u have ua

[spring bough]

it was a demo lock i was going against

[hidden moth]

ah

rip then

what rating

[spring bough]

pulled outa 4-2. just got back to 2200 lol

[hidden moth]

ah

[spring bough]

evo went 0-6 lol

[dark kernel]

Healer or DPS?

If a Devoker is going 0-6 I am laughing

[spring bough]

it was a devoker lol

[dark kernel]

Unreal to fail on a true one button class

[spring bough]

after we lost our round i was like "why didnt u focus lock?" and he went "cause i was dying" lol

[dark kernel]

Got a die a bit to win

Caster games are like pure throughput

[spring bough]

i just got a frost mage, ele, demo lock lobby..... fml

with a resto sham and a preso

[dark kernel]

I had a wizard cleave lobby I somehow eeked a 4-2 last night

[spring bough]

wish me luck lol

[dark kernel]

You can get it out

Mine was demo/arcane/boomy

[spring bough]

yeah 1-5 and i only died once lmao

every time enemy was like 20% or less too when my teammate died RIP

[spring bough]

2-0 base capping on eye of storm in blitz and 1500-0 feels so good lol

[spring bough]

sitting at ST in blitz... my hunter teammate is hitting the enemy ele as i blinded... then kidney... like bro cap the damn base

[dark kernel]

Call him a slur

[spring bough]

i almost did but ive learned lmao

[hidden moth]

is the black blood stuff rng

[spring bough]

i was getting 2 a clear and i was doing all the mini bosses and the last one

[dark kernel]

Lmfao, people are pissed when the discord link start getting busted out

[languid ravine]

Black blood is from the Rank 2 area bosses, so Rexxar and the other guy with the Slam

dont remember his name after doing visions 300 times

[broken otter]

If I had a nickel for every time I Blinded a target only to helplessly watch a Hunter cast Aimed Shot at them, I'd have enough money to buy a couple of cans of pop.

[hidden moth]

mans called it pop kick him from server

ohio status gamer

[stoic spruce]

Get this Midwest bozo outta here

[outer sky]

hey @jaunty osprey my teammates are talking about some vods they saw of you on a stream and I didnt see them. Can you explain what were confused about? please

[broken otter]

Pennsylvania, so close. xD

[outer sky]

I'm in West Virginia

about 30 miles south of Bedford, PA

[broken otter]

I'm on the NY border.

In bumblefuck

But I'm sure WV knows all about living in bumblefuck hahaha

[outer sky]

yes very much so lol

This is my house

[broken otter]

chefs kiss

Lovely property

[outer sky]

yeah it's a dream come true for us

[broken otter]

Not mine, but my parents property, about 10min from me.

[outer sky]

ah very nice

[jaunty osprey]

oh ya

basically

i dont send vanishes unless

they're already rotting

and when we have pressure

i use it as a way to continue the pressure

instead of using it to make pressure

[outer sky]

Do you use vanishes like this in shuffle too or just in organized 3s with people you trust?

[jaunty osprey]

havent really queued any shuffle this season

but hmm, I'd probably say the same in shuffle

Assa is very pressure reliant

aff assa good or what

[stoic spruce]

Yessir

[jaunty osprey]

montage is streaming our games, that's prob where the vod is from

[hazy moon]

Anybody know if you need to be 1400 just to buy them, or your alt who is opening them needs to be 1400 to open them?

[pastel burrow]

just need to buy them on your 1400 guy

can send them to anyone

[hazy moon]

so a new alt can open them without rating?

[stoic spruce]

Yes

[hazy moon]

Cool I'm about to send like 20 to an alt

10 of them will be repeat slots

[stoic spruce]

Goodluck

[hazy moon]

[stoic spruce]

Lol yeah

None of them will have the stats you need either

[jaunty osprey]

Good luck!!

[hazy moon]

i do the war crate farming for the 2500 achievement for weapons, pick up a decent amount of conquest to buy conquest gear too

ill do a bit more war crate farming as well for preferable stats gear, assuming some of the 20 chests give me decent pieces, then free neck and 2x ring craft from 1 bg win

took me like 12 hours to get my priest fully conquest geared with perfect stats yesterday lmao

[warped gate]

How am I dying through Killing Spree? Am I misunderstanding the ability?

It says 100% of the damage I take during it is delayed, so I should basically be immortal while doing it is my understanding.

[outer sky]

is assa/affi still the best assa rogue comp? i've played like 500 3s games as it and i dont think ive queued into mirror even once

[radiant glen]

probably for most ppl yea

[harsh kiln]

What does your deathlog say?

[wanton breach]

how many other assa comps did you encounter?

[spring bough]

Is rogue fun today

[rugged fractal]

What would you say is the key to winning with this comp? Always seems to turn into a mana battle with the healers

[outer sky]

Like w

[outer sky]

There isn't one.

It's a really shit comp right now

I've played 4-500 3s games and have never seen it

Nothing dies

Healers can very easily heal your damage outside of cooldowns

Then you blow all your CDs

They trade 1 or 2 defensive

They're fine

And they have defensives to spare

And the ones they used come back in time for your next big go

[rugged fractal]

Hahaha ya that’s what it feels like to me

[outer sky]

They have to make a horrible mistake to lose

[rugged fractal]

But I’m a noob

[outer sky]

I beat montage and nos playing this comp around 2500mmr

And they gave me infinite restealths

And the feral only ever stunned me into feint

Like very critical errors

You have to outplay the other team obscenely hard to win

[rugged fractal]

So it’s a bad comp but it’s the best assa comp? Haha

[outer sky]

I very strongly suspect that assa/boomie is better

But I'm not allowed to say that because it questions a dogma passed down from the anointed rank 1s

[rugged fractal]

What about ele/mage?

[outer sky]

That's a good comp. But what rating are you? I should add that if you're losing games below 2.4 as assa/affi then your problem isn't the comp

[rugged fractal]

I’m only 1900, so I pretty much play with whoever I can find in lfg

My most common comp is prob affliction/assa

[outer sky]

You can literally play anything at that rating

Assa/affi is more than fine

[rugged fractal]

Ya honestly I am trying to hit glad for the first time this szn

[outer sky]

Your problem is probably that your lock is really bad at kiting and he just gets ran over all game

And if that's happening then there's not much you can do

Because if you have to use every set of DRs to peel then you never get a real go

At some point he has to live on his own

Ofc you peel sometimes

But you can't do it often enough to make a shit lock viable

[rugged fractal]

Ya makes sense. I think I was using too much cc on enemy healer and too little on peeling

[outer sky]

Yeah shit like that is super situational

[waxen meteor]

The hero talents sort of makes it almost impossible to restealth anymore right?

[outer sky]

No it just makes getting them less reliable.

I've noticed against dragons for some reason combat never drops

Idk why

[waxen meteor]

I couldn't have a way to tell when it's doable when it's not

so the worst scenario is that i escaped to behind the pillar to reset

but in the end, i can't

just sit behind a pillar for 8 seconds

or 12 to find out i cannot

then went back without reset, only let teammate doing 2on3 for 12 seconds for no reaosn

it happened to me too many times, that I almost give up trying to reset now

[outer sky]

It's still worth trying

Maybe not against dragons

[waxen meteor]

well the thing is

if it fails

we let teammates playing 2on3 for no reason for like 12-15 seconds

this is a bug that literally needs to be fixed

[grave basin]

not outlaw

[dark kernel]

Out

Law

[grave basin]

as in get out, it's against the law

to play this spec

[potent pivot]

If you have a target Marked and any damage ticking on a different target, you won’t be able to get a clean regular restealth

[chrome schooner]

When you have the DoT from Fire Breath you can't leave combat

That is why

Now, why that's a thing in the first place, I do not know

[outer sky]

I figured it was something like that. What a ridiculous game design. I don't even want to think about how many games I've lost that I would have won if it wasn't for weird stealth bugs

[chrome schooner]

yes ... Plus they often fire it with the empower that make the DoT last 20s ish, so with the cooldown of the spell, if your healer doesn't dispel the DoT, you just never restealth

[outer sky]

I don't think my teammates believe me when I say shit like "we would have won that one if my meld macro didn't bug out"

But it's true

Shit like that is NOT insignificant

[chrome schooner]

Of course it's not

Right now the spec is built to only be good for 12s after leaving stealth

[outer sky]

Yeah it feels like we just lose if the enemy team survives my vanishes

[warped gate]

I’ll make sure to check it out specifically next time.

[chrome schooner]

It's often the case

And what's really annoying is that you often feel (and I mean it's not just a feeling) that you need to get stealth to do something, so you kinda end up forced to trade meld and Vanish for every stun DR in order to have impactful goes, but well, you can't trade one everytime so ... once you're out of hard resets, unless the enemy team is very nice, your team just gets steamrolled because you can't help

30s cd kidney just doesn't scare anybody, especially without any good spell to do direct dmg

[outer sky]

Bro there's so many times when the enemy team is rotting out like they're at like 20-25% each and I don't have any way of getting into stealth so it actually feels better to try and go for a re than to be in the fight and give them me as a potential kill target

[chrome schooner]

The biggest issue right now is that the spec doesn't have a kill button

Sure Wound and DoTs are nice in shuffle but in actual games you can't kill a target it's a bit boring

So many times people overextend or make extremely dumb moves but if you're alone even catching them in a stun on 50%, unless you're lucky, they are fully pre doted and you have Shiv + the autocrit Envenom proc, you can't even kill them

[outer sky]

Blizzard seems to want sudden demise to be our "kill button"

[chrome schooner]

Meanwhile I've already been killed through 2x Serenity + Void Shift from my healer who used trinket for me

Yeah well Sudden Demise in PvP sure doesn't have the same impact as it has in Mythic+ so it doesn't really work as a kill button

[outer sky]

Most of the time if someone's getting low ill try and refresh garrotes and ruptures even if I technically "don't need to" because ensuring sudden demise procs as soon as possible seems more reliable for a kill than pressing envenom unless I have the darkest night buff

[chrome schooner]

Envenom is so so so bad

It's sad as well because in PvE it's the best spell so they are unlikely to ever buff it

[outer sky]

Lol sometimes I'll have full bleeds on someone at like 15% and I have a full cp envenom and I'm thinking I'll press it and they'll die to my execute but in actuality their health hardly moves

[chrome schooner]

I have tried to make Envenom builds in PvP (admittedly I didn't do millions of games with it), and it felt really bad

[outer sky]

I've tried too

[chrome schooner]

It's too slow to generate CPs, and then the damage is too low

If you compare Assa finisher frequency with Outlaw for instance you easily see the issue

There is 0 way to get CPs quickly

If you Kidney someone at 7 CPs, pre DoTs pre Shiv everything, then you have 2 CPs left, and 4 globals to deal damage before he leaves the stun. EVEN if you assume you have 100% crit on your abilities then you can Mutilate, use Envenom for 6CP, then Mutilate, then use Envenom for 4CP, then the stun is over

So that's with dream conditions, 100% crit

You can hit the equivalent of 2x 5CP ENvenom in a stun

Big

[outer sky]

My warlock sometimes bitches at me for not killing psyfiends and shit for him fast enough and I have to explain that mutilate is dogshit and won't kill them so despite being melee I need to build enough combo points for an envenom to kill them and even then it can't just be a 2 or 3 combo point one like I need 4 or 5 points or else I have to build for another enveonom and it takes fucking forever

[chrome schooner]

yeah

actually sending garrote into 1cp rupture is quickest

if you're at 0 cps

[outer sky]

Which is a testament to how shit envenom it

[chrome schooner]

yeah

I had been wondering about playing fatebound with lots of crit

to actually get a lot of envenoms with the talent that gives bonus cps on crits

but it doesn't seem so very reliable

[outer sky]

I think blizzard very intentionally designed the spec this way

I remember when envenom was the big damage button and bleeds were just for energy

[chrome schooner]

It was the good design

Maybe it's possible to have something that feels kind of like this, but I haven't found out how

It's just too slow ST compared to the meta specs

(and too weak)

[outer sky]

The argument is that assa can't have good ST because it has good aoe

But I think we're a very far cry from good ST

Ele shamans one shot me through feint every minute

[indigo hill]

Balance is completely whack this season. It's all dh, war, pala and ele shaman. Healer 9/10 times is a holy priest.

[jaunty osprey]

It’s not an S tier comp anymore, but it’s our best comp

Just reading now

Assa Rogues are missing SOMETHING to make it good, feels like you get so close to killing but can’t

[jaunty osprey]

False

I’ve been queuing it at 2750 mmr for the past 2 weeks after not playing all season

You need to win with CC now instead of just rotting

everyone

[outer sky]

At that point just play RMP

[jaunty osprey]

That was their first time queuing w Feral all season though

Nos also quit for same amount of time as me

[jaunty osprey]

If you want to win with just doing damage and not by capitalizing on people not having trinket, reroll warrior

[outer sky]

I've considered it

I'm not saying it's not viable

But after 500 games

Not 1 mirror

That says something

[jaunty osprey]

Well there are 11 assa rogues above 2400

6 of them have been rank 1 before
3 have been above 2.8k recently

[outer sky]

I peaked at 2398

[jaunty osprey]

Warlocks are also just not good into ferals or warriors

[outer sky]

But also my team refuses to use voice

Which is a problem

[jaunty osprey]

It’s not a comp problem by any means though, I’ve queued 4 sessions with Montage and Nos over past 2 weeks and I’m like 50-20 or something in total

It isn’t S tier, but not as bad as you’re making it seem

And Assa Boomy isn’t better, it’s just easier to play

Both are B+ or A- comps, but Aff Assa relies on actually kiting and surviving and playing game right

Boomy Sin is just mash your face into your buttons

And throw clones on every target on DR

[jaunty osprey]

Not your job to kill healing tides or psyfiends at all, tell ur lock to stop 😭

@chrome schooner I played it a lot last season, but supercharger build still works great for 3M+ envenoms without darkest night

[chrome schooner]

It's mostly very boring. Not "as bad as" yes, but the mere fact that when you enter the arena you know that IF you're going to win the game will be at least 5 minutes because you have no way to actually kill someone of there aren't multiple defensive mistakes is not appealing.

Rogue Lock was much more fun with KB Dance, or, before, with MfD and Echoing at least to send huge damage on goes